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With the No. 1 pick in next year’s draft locked up following an aggressive summer fire sale, the Tigers are set for an offseason unlike any Detroit has seen in the past decade — one of a rebuilding team looking toward the future rather than looking toward next season’s playoff race.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Miguel Cabrera: $192MM through 2023
- Jordan Zimmermann: $74MM through 2020
- Victor Martinez: $18MM through 2018
- Ian Kinsler: $11MM through 2018 (salary rises to $12MM if Kinsler wins a Gold Glove Award)
Arbitration-Eligible Players (projections via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz)
- Andrew Romine (5.049) – $1.9MM projected salary
- Jose Iglesias (5.036) – $5.6MM
- Alex Presley (4.056) – $1.1MM
- Alex Wilson (4.038) – $2.1MM
- Nicholas Castellanos (4.029) – $7.6MM
- Bruce Rondon (3.097) – $1.2MM
- Shane Greene (3.075) – $1.7MM
- James McCann (3.028) – $2.3MM
- Bryan Holaday (3.025) – $700K
- Blaine Hardy (2.132) – $800K
- Non-tender candidates: Romine, Rondon, Presley, Holaday, Hardy
Option Decisions
- Anibal Sanchez: $16MM club option with a $5MM buyout
Other Financial Obligations
- $8MM to the Astros in 2018 and in 2019 for Justin Verlander
- $6MM to the Rangers in 2018-20 for Prince Fielder
Free Agents
- None
[Detroit Tigers Depth Chart | Detroit Tigers Payroll Outlook]
One calendar year ago, the question facing the Tigers was whether they’d embark on a rebuild or whether they’d take aim at contending with an aging core one more time. The trade of Cameron Maybin on the first day of the 2016-17 offseason pointed toward the former of those two options, but it wasn’t until this past July that the Tigers emphatically made their organizational overhaul a reality. From July 18 through Aug. 31, Detroit traded the likes of J.D. Martinez, Justin Wilson, Alex Avila, Justin Upton and franchise icon Justin Verlander for young players and salary relief.
Ian Kinsler, Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez are the remaining core pieces of the Tigers’ most recent AL Central title in 2014, but that’s not likely to be the case for long. While Cabrera’s albatross contract, significant dip in productivity and pair of herniated disks in his back make him an immovable trade asset, Kinsler will enter the offseason as perhaps the likeliest player in all of baseball to be traded. While he had a down year at the plate, the 35-year-old is affordable in 2018, plays premium defense at second base and brings a wealth of postseason experience to hopeful contenders.
The Angels and Brewers both reportedly had interest in him prior to the non-waiver deadline, and neither is especially settled at second base at present. Other speculative fits include the Blue Jays, Dodgers and Mets. Regardless of the destination, Kinsler seems likely to move for some younger pieces. While the Tigers would love to trade Jordan Zimmermann and Victor Martinez to clear payroll and make room for younger options, both of those contracts seem entirely immovable. Martinez may even simply be a release candidate, per Evan Woodbery of MLive.com.
Aside from Kinsler, the Tigers still possess a few intriguing trade options. Nicholas Castellanos showed interesting power and some upside in his batted-ball profile, but his defense was a disaster both at third base and especially in right field. With a fairly sizable bump in his salary projected, some clubs may not see that much surplus value; certainly a contending team would have reservations about plugging him into third base or right field, though perhaps a team like the Braves that is more on the fringes and still hunting for upside would roll the dice.
Other candidates to be moved include Jose Iglesias and breakout reliever Shane Greene. Iglesias only has a year to go on his deal and hasn’t hit much in the past two seasons, but he’s an affordable superlative defender at a premium position. Contenders in need of infield defense should at least kick the tires. There’s no rush to move Greene, who finished the year as the closer in Detroit, but controllable relief arms are always of interest on the trade market. Greene posted a 2.66 ERA with 9.7 K/9 and a 47.4 percent ground-ball rate in 67 2/3 innings this season, but teams may be wary of his 4.52 BB/9 rate and an 8.6 percent swinging-strike rate that doesn’t gel with his more impressive K/9 mark. He’s a lock to be tendered and could be shopped next summer if he’s not moved in the offseason.
One name that fans of other teams will dream on is 2016 Rookie of the Year Michael Fulmer, whose name was frequently speculated upon prior to the non-waiver trade deadline. However, a trade of Fulmer strikes me as decidedly unlikely for a number of reasons, with last month’s elbow surgery chief among them. Impressive as Fulmer’s first two seasons were, teams are going to be reluctant to give maximum value for a player that hasn’t taken the mound since undergoing surgery to reposition his ulnar nerve.
Beyond that, Fulmer is controllable for five more seasons and won’t even reach arbitration eligibility until next winter. The Tigers shouldn’t feel any urgent rush to take the best offer currently presented, and three months of a healthy Fulmer would significantly up his trade stock for next summer’s trading season. Make no mistake about it, Fulmer’s name will pop up on the rumor circuit this winter, but it seems difficult to envision the Tigers and another club reaching the nexus of “fair value” in Detroit’s eyes and a slightly discounted return from a team that will feel it is taking on at least some degree of injury risk.
Turning to what the Tigers could look to actually acquire this offseason, the team is set at a variety of positions. Jeimer Candelario, who came to the Tigers in the return for Wilson and Avila, will get every opportunity to cement himself as a slugging third baseman and one of the future faces of the franchise in 2018. Cabrera will return at first base or designated hitter (depending on what’s done with Martinez), and the club seems likely to go with James McCann and John Hicks again behind the plate rather than invest dollars or prospects in acquiring a new catcher.
Mikie Mahtook performed well enough in center field to earn another look next year, and the team could play Castellanos in the outfield if he’s retained. Still, the Tigers ran out a rather uninspiring group of corner options this winter, so they could look at their unsettled corner situation as a means of catching lightning in a bottle as they did with they signed J.D. Martinez in the first place. Certainly, that’s easier said than done, but looking to the trade market for blocked outfielders (the Cardinals, for instance, have a surplus there) or adding a once-well-regarded player with some youth seem like a better avenue than a veteran stopgap in the Seth Smith or Melky Cabrera mold. Alternatively, the corner outfield opening represents a reasonable spot for the Tigers to take aim with the top pick in this December’s Rule 5 Draft.
Overall, the group of position players leaves some clear and obvious holes: at least one corner outfielder will need to be brought into the mix, and the Tigers look like a team that will eventually acquire some affordable up-the-middle stopgaps in the infield. Dixon Machado could be called upon to man shortstop in the event of an Iglesias trade, but given his lack of track record, at least one infielder (possibly two) that can play shortstop and second base with a bit more offensive upside than Andrew Romine would prove to be useful pursuits. The free-agent market is admittedly somewhat barren, though myriad trade opportunities will present themselves, with Jurickson Profar and Aledmys Diaz among the controllable infield candidates to change hands this winter.
Turning to the pitching staff, Detroit will have Fulmer, Zimmermann, Daniel Norris and Matt Boyd all returning in 2018 (barring trades), but finding a veteran to step into the fifth slot in hopes of eating some innings and eventually turning into a summer trade piece seems prudent. The Tigers could play it safe and look for a fairly reliable source of innings with limited upside (e.g. Ricky Nolasco, Miguel Gonzalez), but they’d be better served to pursue a more boom-or-bust option that could bring back more in a trade (e.g. Chris Tillman). They’re also one of several non-contending teams that could promise righty Miles Mikolas a rotation spot as he looks to return from a strong run in Japan — a move that won’t come with excessive financial risk but could produce a useful trade chip. We haven’t seen this team in this position before, though, so it’s tough to predict exactly which avenue(s) the front office will pursue in rounding out the rotation.
The Tigers’ bullpen is an even larger question mark. Greene is currently the closer, and it’s safe to expect Alex Wilson and probably Daniel Stumpf to return. But Bruce Rondon and Blaine Hardy are likely non-tenders. Drew VerHagen is out of options and could be an offseason 40-man casualty. Top prospect Joe Jimenez looked wildly overmatched in his first season of MLB experience, but he’ll get another crack at some point in 2018. That said, the Tigers have room to add multiple free-agent relievers, and while they’ll probably cast a wide net in adding several rebound candidates on minor league deals, it’d be a surprise if they didn’t bring in at least one arm on a big league deal.
Detroit won’t, and shouldn’t, pay top dollar for any bullpen upgrades, but their complete lack of certainty among the relief corps should give Avila and his staff the ability to be opportunistic late in the winter. With the Tigers unlikely to spend too heavily elsewhere, they could snatch up a few of the relievers who see their markets fall out from underneath them and take lower-than-expected deals in January and February. As with whoever the Tigers settle on for a fifth starter, those free-agent relief acquisitions could very well become trade commodities down the line. If not, they’re unlikely to be expensive and can be cut loose to give opportunities to younger arms.
A year ago at this time, my outlook on the Tigers’ offseason focused on how they could trim payroll while still keeping enough pieces around to contend in 2017. That approach won’t be necessary this winter, and it shouldn’t be a surprise to hear virtually anyone on the Tigers’ active roster surface in trade talks over the next five-plus months. Moves that we haven’t typically associated with the Tigers in the past, such as selecting one or more players in the Rule 5 Draft, buying low on rebound candidates in free agency and trading for change-of-scenery candidates (as they successfully did with Mahtook last offseason) could all be on the table this time around.
It’s a new era in Detroit as the team gears toward a youth movement with the top picks in both the Rule 5 Draft and next June’s amateur draft. The Tigers have already cut the sum of their guaranteed contracts owed in 2018 from $138.1MM this time last year to $97MM at present (not including projected arbitration salaries). That number figures to dip further if and when Kinsler is traded, but that should be just one of many moves in an active offseason for Avila and his staff.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Brixton
nows the time to sell high on Shane Greene
Ejemp2006
I believe Greene’s value is only going to increase because his performance as a reliever looks legit and recently teams have shown a tendency for over paying for guys like him at the deadline.
mlb1225
I think he’ll be a trade deadline candidate.
tigerfan4ever
Agreed. Greene has too small of a sample size as a closer to have any trade value during the offseason. If he continues what he started building in 2017, then trade him at the deadline. Problem is, he may lack save opportunities even by then.
falconsball1993
No one cares about saves as a stat anymore. Especially not when it comes to signing a player or a contract dispute. Didn’t you hear about Betances and how he filed a grievance because he wasn’t getting the same pay as a “close” just because he didn’t get a silly stat like saves?
stymeedone
Didn’t you hear he lost? Teams do care about that, unless you are a rare lefty that throws 95, and can handle multiple innings.
julyn82001
Miggy will be back healthy… Not sure about Vmart but he is tremendous player when up and running… These are franchise players just as much as McGwire and Canseco were to the A’s…
Ace121
Neither guy will be healthy again. Wake up
MiltonMan 2
They’re still in tear down mode. With a poor grade in their farm system, it’s going to be a while before they compete again.
tigerfan4ever
Farm system has much improved since the fire sale. There isn’t much in the way of trade bait to significantly add to the prospects they already have. It’ll have to be done via the draft.
falconsball1993
A poor grade in their system? In case you haven’t seen anything in the past 6 months…they’ve added 4-Top 100 prospects, and another top 50 through trades and drafting. They are now ranked in the top 15 in baseball. Stop using a bad farm system excuse. They don’t have a bad one anymore.
Coast1
The formula the bad teams use is add as many young prospects as you can and see what happens. The Tigers didn’t develop players that well for a while and traded away prospects. Now they’re doing better. The team probably will stink in 2018 but beyond that who knows?
Mr Pike
They have the worst major league 40 man roster in baseball. It will be years before they are any good, even with an average minor league system.
xabial
I disagree with the doom and gloom comments. Avila got the #1 overall pick, and many contracts come off the books 2018.
GarryHarris
I’m on this train as well. There’s hope. Al Avila reduced payroll more as much as could be hoped for. There’s more to go. Ian Kinsler and Jose Inglesias will be traded. Jordan Zimmermann could bounce back and be traded too. But, they would have to pay a portion of his salary. That, added with the likelyhood that Victor Martinez will be released. So they, along with Justin Verlander and Prince Fielder will be on the payroll but not playing for the Tigers. I’d like to see Nicholas Castellanos moved to 1B and Miggy to DH.
stymeedone
Zimmerman has a no trade clause and came to Detroit because of its closeness to his WI home. He’s not going anywhere unless Milwaukee, Minnesota or one of the Chitown teams are interested. Unless he rebounds, I don’t see that happening. Right now he is just filler. He’s not something you build with, or contend with.
GarryHarris
Its not likely but, not impossible either.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Here is what they should do: Trade Kinsler, Romine, Iglesias, Presley, Wilson, Castellanos, Cabrera, Zimmermann and Martinez to the highest bidder, paying down as much of their contracts as is necessary, take 3 young guys with upside in Rule 5 like the Padres did last year and shoot for back-to-back #1 picks.
xabial
After 2018, Zimmermann loses his full NTC, and gets a 10 team no trade clause with 2 years remaining on the 5 year $110MM contract.
Unlikely… But something to consider.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Just because he has a NTC doesn’t mean he can’t waive it. And I think he’d rather play for a team that might actually win something during the duration of his contract.
arc89
Released but not traded. No team would trade for him now unless he turns around his pitching next year. Right now Zimmerman is dead weight contract they would be lucky if a team even offered to pay 25% of the contract.
NOPelicanFangirl696969
I dont think anybody is taking martinez definitely.
I doubt cabrera as well
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Then DFA them.
SundownDevil
Then they end up paying their entire salaries after releasing them when nobody trades for them in the 10-day DFA window, defeating the point of decreasing salary to rebuild in the first place.
Ejemp2006
Respect for veteran players on the payroll has been a hallmark of Tiger baseball for years and a factor in their ability to attract free agents like Tori Hunter, Magglio Ordonez, and Johnny Damon. I don’t think they want to ruin that reputation just to essentially throw away a veteran bat like VMart.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
If their values are so low that no one trades for them even if the Tigers pay all but like $2m per year then maybe getting rid of them would be a blessing in disguise.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Respect for veteran players didn’t win them a World Series. And they likely won’t be in on any premium free agents until the 2020’s.
Anyway, I question the whole “reputation” thing wrt players wanting to play for a given team. Jason Heyward took a paycut (albeit not a big one) in order to play for the Cubs less than a year after they manipulated Kris Bryant’s service time and Scott Boras made a big fuss about it. Generally speaking, premium free agents go where the money is.
mlb1225
Yea, getting their contracts off the books is going to be extremely hard.
Coast1
It’s not really necessary. If the Tigers can trade Kinsler and a couple of their more expensive arbitration players they could have a payroll of $125 million. That’s not going to break them. In 2019 the only two players still left will be Cabrera and Zimmermann. If they decide to beef up payroll and try to win that year those two contracts could hinder them, but it’s still only two players.
Bruin1012
That’s all fine and dandy Westcoast but you have to find someone willing to trade Cabrera and Martinez have no value whatsoever and are not tradeable so take them off the table. I also believe Zimmerman is a negative value with his contract. The other guys you mention have minimal surplus value and won’t fetch much.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
If literally no one will take them even if you pay down their contracts then just DFA them. And it doesn’t matter if the other guys don’t have much surplus value, just take what you can get. The point is to get SOMETHING for them before they just leave in free agency and to clear salary and roster space for younger, cheaper players with more upside.
stymeedone
Romine, Pressley and Wilson all have no trade value. Wilson will be tendered only because of the team he plays on. He doesn’t strike people out, and he has an ERA of 4..50. Not a very marketable player. Cabrera, Zimmerman, and Victor all are immoveable contracts. They are too injured and too expensive for any team to take a chance on. Castellanos offers no excess value until he shows he is not a defensive liability somewhere on the diamond. As a home grown talent, he gives something for the fans to watch while they rebuild. He has more value at the gate than he does to the rebuild at this time. Give him time at 1b or in the OF to show he is competent, and his trade value might improve.
If you (WC Ryan) know of any team that would be interested in the players that you mentioned (other than Kinsler or Iglesias), please let us know who they are, and what you feel they would give up for them.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
For Romine Presley and Wilson just take what you can get or non-tender them. Like I said, the true benefit to the Tigers is clearing up payroll and roster space.
On Castellanos, you make a fair point that his value might improve, but if the Tigers are offered something decent for him, it wouldn’t be smart to turn it down and risk him walking for no return after 2019.
Oh, and Iglesias still hasn’t taken an extension. I find it quite amusing that less than a year ago Tigers fans on here were saying that Travis Jankowski wouldn’t be enough for Iglesias and now the Tigers will likely have to trade him for pennies on the dollar.
Ejemp2006
Both Miggy and VMart need extended offseason recovery programs. However, it has become apparent that Miggy would need to be chained in the basement in order to keep him off the field. And VMart will want to play for another contract so I don’t see him taking time off either. Hopefully, they don’t get surprising years from the youngsters and big rebound years from these old guys or their rebuild could be stalled by a tweaner year.
LeylandsLung
VMart will want to play for another contract? He’s toast. He can’t play any more.
Coast1
He’ll be 39 next season and 40 when he’d get that new contract. Few players play at 40, definitely not ones coming off seasons like he’s had.
stymeedone
Yes, it would be awful if they won. (sarcasm)
Chris Sale Amateur Tailor
i believe fulmer is controllable for 5 seasons still
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
He is. But only 1 more for the league minimum cuz he’s a Super Two
Chris Sale Amateur Tailor
yep but the article says 4 it is right about super 2 tho
joefriday1948
Very well written with good-insights and expertise.
tigerdoc616
Several things to pick on here. First, Kinsler has an option for 2018, with a $5M buyout. So he should be listed as an option decision, not a guaranteed contract. Second, don’t be so sure he will be traded this off season. If there is no market this off season, Avila could easily hold him looking to see if something better develops at the trade deadline. Part of the reason the Tigers decided to give this group one more run was the lack of good offers last off season on players like Verlander, Kinsler, and JD Martinez. In fact, any other trade asset you list, that will likely be the case. They will go no where this off season if the offers are not good.
nickolai
I believe it is correct for Kinsler. It became guaranteed after he had so many plate appearance.
xabial
100% correct. It was 600 plate appearances which he achieved.
The 2018 option vested for $11MM and winning a gold glove nets him another $1MM for a $12MM salary.
If the option didn’t vest, it would be a $11MM club option with $5MM buyout. (+$1MM bonus for 2017 GG)
mlbtraderumors.com/2017/09/ian-kinslers-option-ves…
xabial
Edit: If 2018 option didn’t vest, it would be $10MM club option with $5M buyout (with $1M GG bonus) not $11MM club option.
Sorry about that. But all this moot since it vested ^
LeylandsLung
The Tigers may have to wait until late Spring Training to find value in trading Kinsler. Most teams with needs at 2B may try to find a younger option to go to ST with. They may need to wait until those options don’t work or a team suffers an injury and needs a veteran replacement.
tuner49
Avila should explore a “change of scenery” swap of Bruce Rodon for Jurickson Profar. Neither were called up after their rosters expanded in September. They both are within days of service time and very similar arb. salaries. Makes both Kinsler and Iglesias trade chips rather than one or the other.
stymeedone
Interesting idea, though Rondon’s clubhouse rep probably means a 2nd piece might be needed.
andrew c-f
Especially considering how “easy” it is to develop relievers allegedly.
masnhater
I honestly think a Trumbo for Zimmermann trade would work. Tigers pay some of the difference in salary. Zimm gets to play for a possible contender and Orioles get someone to at least eat some innings while freeing up DH for Mancini. Tigers get someone that can play decent 1B and will provide some pop. Tigers get to DH Cabrera hopefully helping his back, and get some salary and one year of contract relief.
arc89
Zimmerman was just plain awful last year. Even Trumbo has way more value than Zimmerman. Only thing the tigers can do is hope Zimmerman has a good half and trade him for anything they can get.
johnnygringo
funny how an owner passes away , and the kids take over, the first thing they do is cut payroll, and are more concerned with profits, over winning…sorry Detroit fans
Coast1
I can think of two reasons. The first is that owning the Tigers was Mike Illitch’s passion, not his children’s. They aren’t as willing to do all it takes to win and probably don’t want the team.
Second, is that the heirs have to pay taxes on the estate. I have no idea how much Mike Illitch left his children but things can get sticky when the IRS is calling. Joe Robbie’s heirs inherited the Dolphins and Joe Robbie Stadium, assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars. But they were also socked with a huge tax bill and Robbie didn’t leave them enough cash to cover it. They had no choice but to sell the team and stadium to pay Uncle Sam. I doubt the Illitch situation is that cash poor but they may need to take cash out.
MLBTRS
Estate taxes are not a factor. It’s a corporation that has similar assets and liabilities that existed when Mike was still alive. The only estate taxes would be on whatever personal holdings that he had at the time of his death that were not part of the corporation or a family trust. The Robbie example only applies if someone dies unexpectedly and has massive unincorporated holdings in their name only, not someone in their 90’s with everything already under the control of their heirs.
stymeedone
Really? You think this team should have been kept together? Were you not watching them play? The performance dictated the moves. This was not the Florida Marlins dumping players from a WS team. This was a team that competed for 10 years coming to the end of the run.
MLBTRS
No team is ever “kept together”, but it’s a stupid business decision to intentionally field a loser, and it’s certainly not necessary to do so.
MLBTRS
The team of ten years ago is not even close to being the same team that started the 2017 season. They didn’t all get old together, and in fact, the team itself wasn’t even old. A few of the better players were, but as a team, their age was average. You are correct that it was a bad team. Some great players don’t automatically result in a good team.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Trolling with this volume of comments.
The Tigers weren’t going to be good for the next few years no matter what they did, so they shifted their strategy towards moves that would make them better a few years down the road. Of course no prospect is a guarantee, but closer to one than a bunch of aging, underperforming players on big contracts.
mrnatewalter
If only there was a GM in baseball, particularly along the northeast coast, who adored Miguel Cabrera who the Tigers could con into taking… again.
MLBTRS
I have a novel idea: how about keeping the talent you have, add as much as you can afford and field a competitive team? “Rebuilding” is nothing more than an inefficient, unwise way to run a sports franchise. Concentrate on decent SP, keep the young arms that you have, along with the contract you’re stuck with, sign at least one serviceable OF and hope you get lucky with the rest. No team, no business should ever plan on being a loser.
Coast1
Instead of rebuilding the Phillies tried that in 2013 and 2014. They added players like Michael Young and A.J. Burnett to their aging veterans and finished 73-89 in consecutive years. While they did their aging veterans declined in trade value. They could’ve done this again in 2015 but they finally decided there was no point in having players in the final year or two of their contracts who’d be gone by the time the team was good again.
They were able to trade some of them and get some players who might help them win again. Had they done it the way you recommend they would’ve actually been trying to lose because they wouldn’t have been acquiring the players they needed. Or they could’ve held those players and ended up with nothing.
None of these teams planned on losing. They knew they were going to lose and decided to do so with players who might be there when they won. They still added players. The Phillies spent more than $60 million on players they hoped would help them be better than awful. The Padres signed a slew of free agent pitchers.
MLBTRS
Your response only makes sense if you have a sure formula to field a competitive team. If that was the case, every team would use that formula, which certainly isn’t the case. It also assumes that the MLB draft has predictable outcomes. The classic “rebuilding” model that so many seem to embrace is rarely what it appears to be, but some owners sucker the fans time and again that it’s unavoidable. The main reason teams do massive salary dumps, followed by the “rebuild” is strictly financial, and if they can somehow field a contender in five years, it’s purely coincidental. The big $$ is in the TV contracts, and that doesn’t change much, regardless of the quality of the team, but when you intentionally field what is essentially a AAA team in MLB , you are indeed planning to lose.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Nope. It still makes sense because your strategy has been proven to not wor. Would you rather suck for 3 years then have a bunch of young, high upside talent come up from your farm or be the 2016 Phillies?
MLBTRS
What “strategy”? I didn’t say that they should never have made the trades they did; I supported them all. I’m just saying that it’s senseless to continue to do it when the return is minimal and the team as it stands is not that bad. The mid-70’s and early 90’s Tigers were basically AAA teams that were far worse than what they have now. Regardless, you seen to think that the talent they’re getting from the trades they’ve made is a certainty, when there’s just as much talent in later rounds. They traded some very good players that they drafted in later rounds when their first pick was in the 20’s. Good farm systems are not dependent on trades; it’s all about a lot of good scouting and a little luck.
Coast1
No, there isn’t a sure formula for fielding a winning team, but there is one for fielding a losing team. If you have a team made up mostly of aging players on the decline, a high payroll, and a weak farm system you’re going to lose no matter whether you try to add a veteran or two.
The Phillies are a great example of this. In 2012 they went 81-81 with a high payroll and aging vets. Their farm system was barren. They decided they owed their fans a contender. So they added John Lannan, Ben Revere, Michael Young, and Delmon Young. That wasn’t much but the two best free agents, Melvin Upton and Michael Bourn, decided to go elsewhere. The Phillies went 73-89. The trade value of some of their vets declined. Roy Halladay’s value went to 0.
They didn’t want to rebuild, so they added Marlon Byrd, A.J. Burnett, and Roberto Hernandez in free agency. They went 73-89 again and saw Cliff Lee’s trade value go to 0.
They finally realized that they weren’t going to win with the group of aging vets they had and decided to see if they could get anything for them before they hit free agency in a year or two. They managed to get a lot of prospects. They needed that because they hadn’t drafted and developed players well.
There was no way for the Phillies to acquire enough good players to compete in 2015. So they added some vets and gave the young players a chance. That takes time. But you can’t make trades without building the value of your players and there was a poor free agent class after 2016 anyway.
The Phillies took a while with their rebuild. The Brewers started their rebuild before the 2016 season and were able to put together a winner for 2017. That doesn’t happen if they don’t trade Lucroy, Gomez, et al.
The Phillies decided to field competitive teams in 2013 and 2014 and ended up with uncompetitive teams. They took a step back, realizing the only way to get competitive was to trade players who hadn’t gotten them competitive. That meant losing but they wouldn’t have the assets they have now if they didn’t do that.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
The middle is the worst place to be in baseball. Your suggestion is bad and you should feel bad.
MLBTRS
What magical oracle ever declared that fielding a competitive team automatically results in finishing “in the middle”, either short or long term?
Coast1
Because you can’t just decide to field a competitive team. The Tigers didn’t have the talent to win, were jammed up in payroll, and didn’t have a good farm system. They could’ve tried to field a competitive team for another season or two but the upside might’ve been the middle. At the end of that attempt they’d be left with little talent and no farm system.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
The thing is the Tigers can’t field a competitive at this point. The only ways to do this is to bring up or trade prospects (which they don’t have) or spend more money (which they can’t do without going over the luxury tax and can backfire just as easily)
MLBTRS
Ever MLB organization should “decide to field a competitive team”; there’s never a good excuse for losing over 90 games. I’m not criticizing their decision to make the trades that they did; I’m in favor of every one of them, but what remains in not that bad of a team, so why go further when the return isn’t worth the the cost of alienating the fan base? No one can predict the performance of a bullpen, and there’s a strong possibility that Boyd is on the verge of putting it together. Zimmermans arm is intact and his problems could very well reside between his ears rather than his arm. so a good 4th SP could make them a competitive team. They definitely need some D in the OF but if they keep the infield together, there aren’t that many holes. There’s a glut of good middle infielders out there, so Kinsler & Iglesias aren’t going to bring much of a return and they’re stuck with Miggy, so what good would it do to continue dumping players? If they insist on an all out rebuild -which is only a necessary when repairing the work of incompetency- they can always do it next July. Total rebuilds fail far more often than they succeed; just look at the Cardinals who rarely use that strategy.
MLBTRS
So what’s wrong with their infield? Catcher? SP if Zimmerman returns to form? Two defensive OF, a SP and pieces in the BP is not a major project.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Yes there is a good excuse for losing over 90 games. Regular season record is only a means of determining who makes the playoffs and who plays who in the playoffs. If you don’t make the playoffs you might as well go 0-162.
And the point of trading Kinsler and Iglesias is that if they don’t trade them they’re just going to leave a year from now for no return.
mlb1225
V-Mart, and Miggy are going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to trade. Both are declining veterans, who did not stay healthy this year. Plus both have huge salaries, making another roadblock for a trade. In short, declining health+declining performance+advancing age+big salary= no trade value.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Tigers could eat most of their contracts in a trade and then invest the money they aren’t paying them in young international talent, or use it to buy a boat.
Benklasner
I could see the cardinals giving up on grichuck in exchange for a half price zimmerman. Thats to say detroit eats half and grichuck is all we give. Zimmerman becomes the new jake westbrook and grichuck basicly replaces castelanos
Regi Green
Phillies should call them up about Fulmer, and pay down the return cost by taking on Zimmerman’s contract.
andrew c-f
They should attempt to get a few relievers to flip for some prospects, maybe try to use Yovani Gallardo in a multi-inning relief role instead of as a starter.
steelerbravenation
I know it would never happen but I would love for the Braves to get Shane Greene & Fulmer.
Allard, Wiegel, Pache & Cabrera work ????
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
You forgot Acuna!!!!!!!!!!