Here’s a collection of reactions to the Tigers’ headline-grabbing trade of Justin Verlander to the Astros earlier this week.
- After the Tigers and Astros agreed on a deal, Verlander initially refused to waive his no-trade rights, Jon Morosi of MLB.com writes. Verlander wasn’t opposed to joining the Astros, but first he wanted to see if he could go to the Cubs, since he and fiancée Kate Upton like the city of Chicago. (Verlander was also interested in the Dodgers, although they weren’t actively involved in talks.) When it turned out the Tigers felt the Cubs weren’t offering enough value in a potential deal, Verlander signed off on the trade that would send him to the Astros.
- Bob Nightengale of USA Today has further details on discussions between Verlander and the Tigers that resulted in Verlander’s departure from Detroit. The Tigers ultimately told Verlander it would be “the Astros or nobody,” as Nightengale describes it. Verlander, who had some concerns about Houston as it dealt with Hurricane Harvey, spoke to Astros owner Jim Crane. “I told him, ’This town is going to be fine. It’s going to take time. You will be received great here. We’ve got a good team, a good manager, a good front office. There won’t be any problems here,'” says Crane.
- The Tigers’ decision to trade Verlander and Justin Upton was an “obvious rebuild move,” says Tigers GM Al Avila (via MLB.com’s Jason Beck). “We’re going to have a rough month of September, and next year may not be all that pretty, either,” says Avila. “But at some point in the near future, we expect this to turn around, that some of these prospects will be coming up and making a difference. And within a reasonable time then, we should be ready to go.”
- The trade shows the Astros will treat their coming playoff run as a “crusade” for their beleaguered city, Ken Rosenthal writes for the Athletic. The team already has a franchise-record payroll of around $130MM this season, and that figure could go higher next year. But the Astros are pushing to make it to the World Series, and Rosenthal writes that while a baseball trade hardly makes up for what’s currently a disastrous situation in Houston, it could perhaps be a “ray of sunshine” in an extremely dark time.
- Franklin Perez now ranks as the Tigers’ second-best prospect behind fellow righty Matt Manning, FanGraphs’ Eric Longenhagen opines in a review of the prospects in the swap. Longenhagen describes Perez as a polished teenager who has the potential to dominate, although he’ll have to increase his stamina to carry a big-league starter’s workload. He calls Daz Cameron a “fringe-to-average hitter with fringe game power” and a borderline future big-league starting outfielder.
Really good trade for the ‘Stros
I heard nobody in the Tigers clubhouse is crying any tears and won’t miss him.
Why would they?
Good luck Astros!
I was against a big trade bc I thought the Tigers would want more than we gave up. Honestly, I think Houston won this trade big time. Perez is a pitching prospect who could easily bust, and we have a bunch more SP prospects. Even at his ceiling, he is never likely to be better than Verlander. Daz is a fallen star who has a lot to prove, and who may benefit from a change of scenery. Rogers is rated as all defense with a questionable bat.
Great deal!
Now I just hope Verlander dominates in the playoffs.
Comparing prospects to JV is absurd. He is being paid what he is worth… which is a lot. In free agent deal, it is likely that JV would be paid just about $28MM.
Compare the prospects to the $16MM the Tigers in effect paid to get them, by giving the Astros salary relief.
If you think JV would get 28 million today as a free agent the nicest thing I can say is you are delusional
No one said Perez would be the next JV. This is a win-win trade I think for everyone. Astros get one of the hottest pitchers in baseball right now with legit postseason experience. He has been fluky the last three seasons. He’s either on his A game or he’s getting lit up. And I love JV. I wish that he does win a ring with the Astros and he may finish out the rest of the season like he has. My only caveat is I don’t think you’re going to have a stud in 18 and 19. You’re probably gonna get a mixed bag. Some amazing starts, average starts, and some duds.
Other thing that might be an issue is his history with CLE. It is historically bad. That could be a potential ALCS matchup that is not gonna be his forte.
All that said, it was the right move for the Astros. Same for the tigers. Perez might be ready for Opening Day 2020, along with Faedo, Manning, and Burrows paired with Fulmer. Their rotation could be special in 3 years. Emphasis on the could. The known though is that we haven’t won anything with JV and we sure as hell aren’t winning anything in 18 or 19. This was probably the best they were going to get.
It may of made more sense to wait until the winter but who knows. Injuries happen. We’ll see. I think though JV helps the stros, especially this postseason and Perez should (emphasis on should) be our 3rd starter behind the likes on fulmer, Norris or Burrows or Faedo or Manning depending on how things shake out.
And if Rogers becomes a trade trip in 3 years or is a .230 hitter with awesome defense behind the plate, then that’s just extra.
As far as Cameron goes, we’ll see. Anything he does will be extra. Not expecting much from him in the minors the next 3 years but who knows.
Bad trade all the way around …. oh wait the Tigers just unloaded a monumentally horrible contract on the Moronic Jim Crane!!! Yay for pointless bad 3 step back trades in 2017!?!? WTF !!!
I SWEAR! It’s people like you that give honest, knowledgeable fans a bad name. They could win the World Series in 4 games and you probably wouldn’t be satisfied.
100% agree with you tsolid. The Astros made a decision to get a solid frontline starter and didn’t devastate the farm. Kudos to Luhnow for this move. Not every trade works out, but the team also didn’t mortgage the future.
And good for the Astros for recognizing that they’ve got an opportunity to win a WS, so they’re going for it. Nowadays, teams cannot count on having a chance at the WS year after year, so when you’ve got a shot, go for it. Theo did that with the Chapman trade last year. Prospects are great, but they don’t win WS games.
Dumb!
We shall see. I have been an Astros fan for almost 40 years. So I have seen so many bad trades by the ownership that I stand by my statements. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. I would like to be wrong but don’t think I am. Can anyone of you admit you are wrong when all is said and done . Here’s to the postseason and me being wrong . I will remember this and ask you to own up to the facts at the end of the season.
Prospects are prospects. They may pan out, they may not.
For example: Most would have considered Norris to be a better prospect than Fulmer when Tigers acquired both in separate trades around the same time 2 years ago.
Also Tigers fans were distraught when Fister was traded for Robbie Ray (and 2 others), because his ranking was not as good as they thought it should be. Turns out, Ray could be a well above average pitcher for a decade.
Tigers got their new #1 prospect along with their #6 and #8 prospects in one deal. In effect, three “bingo chips”. The #8 guy could be better than the #1 guy, who knows.
They basically had to pay $8MM per year for 2 years to get that good of a deal. I am happy they did… because JV is paid pretty much what he is worth. He is a top pitcher paid like a top pitcher. His salary would be very close to what it is, if he were a free agent.
As an Astros fan I would do this deal all day. Perez looks like a big leaguer, with TOR upside imo. If Jake Rodgers makes it to the bigs and hits .200, that should be considered a win for the Tigers. And that very well could happen because his defense is so great. Daz Cameron has been passed by 4 different outfielders in the Astros system in the past two years, not including Kyle Tucker (Bendenti, Martin, Dawson and 1b/OF Alvarez). He’s hitting .240 in low A ball, how someone can consider him a potential 5 tool player is beyond me. Also considering him the 9th best prospect in the Astros system is only due to his draft status and pedigree. He’s got a lot to turn around before getting to the bigs.
Tigers saved $40 million the next two years. No point in paying $56 million for a 4 WAR player on a sub .500 team. So that’s the big win for the Tigers.
Astros gave up no player they covet. They gave up only one bona fide future MLB player. Either way, Detroit had to do it.
I agree with everything you said until you got to the Detroit had to do it. The Cardinals retool, rebuild all the time without gutting the team and slashing payroll to the bone. The Tigers didn’t have to either. They chose to. Uptown only told them he was going to opt out after they told him they were doing a salary dump. In any case losing Upton for Grayson Long or losing him for nothing doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things.
They aren’t done yet either. Kinsler, Iglesias, Greene and Fulmer are on their way out too. Zimmerman will be gone as soon as he returns to form and they can unload some of the contract.
This is a 10 year project now. Five of their so so top 10 prospects are 20 or less.
Yes, they had to get under the luxury tax threshold. Yes, they had to change their business model and rely more on player development and less on free agency. No, they didn’t have to gut the team. Yes, they chose to have a salary dump.
I see your point. My overall point was that the Tigers were looking to reduce payroll. They could have waited until the offseason to unload verlander, they didn’t have to take this deal. So they didn’t “have” to do it. But certainly there is no point keeping a $28 million a year player if you are trying to rebuild.
My point was they didn’t have to jettison their core players in order to rebuild. The Cardinals never do. They transition over time.
Oh well then I disagree. They are a long way from competing for the division and their payroll and aging, underperforming players will be a burden. Tigers will need more than 2 years to turn around the franchise, no need for Verlander to be on the team. They will be under .500 with him or without him in 2018 and 2019.
Remember all the Tiger fans that said he will be traded only if a team takes on the whole contract and gives up 2-3 of their top prospects? Well, Tigers got 3 decent prospects and are eating $16mm of that salary. I Guess not guys. Now all you need is a sucker to take on Miguel Cabreras $184mm over next 6 years and you should be golden
I think there was only one Tiger fan who said that.
Oh there was more then one Tiger Fan saying that
And actually they did get three of the Astros top prospects so he wasn’t wrong by much.
Top 3 prospects?? Hmmmm not hardly.
Who said anything about top 3 prospects? They got three of the top 11. Look it up.
C’mon man. Once you get outside of top 5 prospects you’re right on the Cusp of AAA tops guys. They One top prospect and two marginal prospects. STILL not bad haul when you’re unloading 40mil
Daz Cameron shouldn’t be a top 10 (9) prospect, look up his terrible, thus far, stats. If Jake Rodgers starts showing some life with the bat, he reaches the majors (11) and franklin Perez is certainly a top prospect (3). But Perez is not Martes, Whitley or Bukakas.
I am curious what is it about Perez’s game and stats so far that you find not as good as everyone except maybe Whitley
Kid Is 19 and holding his own in AA, So that’s pretty dang good as a STARTER
Since most teams have about 150 players in their minor league system, most people agree if you get a player in the top 10-15 you got one of their top prospects. It’s simple math and english.
Simple Math?? So you’re QUANTITY = Quality? You’re simple if you believe what you just wrote. Their is a reason that they RANK entire minor league organizations from top to bottom. Every teams top 10-15 players aren’t = value. Is that simple and English enough for you, since you’re a KNOW IT ALL with a SMUG attitude.
Perez’s stuff isn’t nearly as good as Bukakas, Whitley or Martes’. Only someone who doesn’t know the Astros system would ask that. With all that being said, Perez will make it to the majors by 2019 at the age of 21. But not the upside of those other prospects I mentioned.
I’ll put my $$ on the 19yr old that’s already had success in AA over the 21yr old reliever coming out of college. But hey, according to you, you already know the CEILING of a 19yr old.
I freely admit I have a smug attitude- for good reason. If you didn’t get anything else right today, you nailed that.
Haha, ok, according to MLB scouts, Bukakas can be in the bullpen for the Astros this postseason because of his plus fastball and plus plus slider. Astros want to make him a starter. But as far as stuff is concerned (which was my original statement), Perez’s stuff is below Whitley, Martes and Bukakas’… you probably had to look up who those guys are. Based on your question, I highly doubt you know anything about the Astros system.
According to Scouts, huh? That gonna be a Pretty BIG leap from rookie Ball to the Big Leagues with only 10ips. By the way… you can take martes and his BIG arm and I’ll take Perez and his Strike throwing ability. FYI, I know PLENTY about the Astros Org and I don’t need SCOUTS to tell me what to think
1. All the Tiger fans? Really? No, I remember some saying dont trade him let him retire a life time tiger, theyll have to eat money to get good prospects, theyll get lesser prospects if they unload his contract, and then the ones you’re whining about. Like always, there’s a mix of opinions.
2. After unloading upton and verlanders contract they have room financially to get him some help. Cabrera is having a down year and who knows he could turn it around in 2018. Wouldnt be the first time a guy has a bad year and rights things the next year.
3. Theyd be better off trying to unload zimmerman and martinez and sanchez.
Man its going to be a long road. I don’t know if the fans have even grasped what the team is gonna go through. Could be 5-7 years of not contending. Look at the Phillies are in like year 4 and have the worst record in baseball. And they had Cole Hamels and Giles to deal at the start of their rebuild which brought in more talent than Verlander and Wilson. Plus they had a better ranked farm before those trades. Not saying that they did wrong, but the Tigers haven’t rebuild in over a decade. I don’t know if their fans really understand what they are getting themselves into because they are used to having a team in contention.
It was only three years between 2003 (119 loss team) and 2006 (World Series Team). It really depends on whether they dip into free agency in 2019.
It was between 1988 and 2006. We haven’t even got to 2003 and 119 losses- yet. The low point is still years down the road.
Defeatist attitude. This team with 5 top 100 prospects now, plus Fulmer, Norris, Nicholas, Iggy/Kinsler (trade value), Greene, and Miggy is much better than that 2003 team.
I would not trade any player on that 2003 roster for any of the 12 players/prospects I just mentioned.
Since most teams have about 150 players in their minor league system, most people agree if you get a player in the top 10-15 you got one of their top prospects. It’s simple math and english.
I’ll say it one more time bobble. You are now looking at the 1988 Tigers of Trammel, Whitaker,Tanana, Wllie Hernandez, Herndon and so on.
The 2003 Tigers are yet to come. Boyd, Buck Farmer, Norris, Mahtook, Machado, Christian Stewart, McCann, Candelario etc..
Rather than call it defeatist I think of it as more honest than hopeful.
I don’t get the “bad contract” stuff. A future hall of famer who’s pitching well is easily worth $40M/2 years.
At $28MM, he is being paid exactly what he is worth. Fair value.
Remember, no team claimed him on waivers, which means no team was willing to pay his entire salary.
Tigers paid $8MM/season to get the three prospects. Judge the trade on $16MM total v. the value of the three prospects.
Not claiming a player on waivers does not mean no one was willing to pay his full contract. No one claimed Tony Phillips, and Cincinnati was paying virtually all of his contract. It usually comes down to whether they are willing to give up something in addition to taking on salary.
The 48 hour window to get a deal done probably has something to do with it too.
The Astros are going to be very, very happy. I can’t believe all the bad mouthing of Verlander that was going on the last three months by on this site and by tv reporters.
Knowing how much someone is making can illicit negative reactions.
AGREED. The last time the Astros landed an ace at the deadline (granted, it was the July deadline) was Randy Johnson in 1998 and he DOMINATED for them. I expected Verlander to do the same.
I’ve taken a couple of screenshots of the trash talk just to bring them back when those naysayers change their tune and/or say they were behind him the whole time.
I guess my initial reaction was diarrhea. That had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I had lunch at the sketchy Mexican food truck.
Damn Cubs were In on him tho… would have been nice to get him
I’m curious what the Cubs were offering in return. I would have loved to have seen him replaced Lackey on the postseason roster
I see a one day contract in his future
I am just happy for Houston with the JV acquisition. They need a bright light at the end of the tunnel. If the Giants can’t be in it in 2017, I’m pulling for them!!