Aug. 7: USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets that recent talks between the Astros and Tigers weren’t productive. The Tigers are saying that they expect Verlander to remain with the team into the winter, Nightengale adds.
Aug. 6: The Tigers and Astros were in touch about a potential Justin Verlander trade this month, MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets. It isn’t clear if these talks could be building towards a possible trade of the former Cy Young Award winner, or if the two clubs were just checking back in with each other out of due diligence, since Detroit and Houston also discussed Verlander prior to the trade deadline. Those talks involved Verlander and Justin Wilson both going to the Astros, though that scenario is no longer in play now that Wilson had been traded to the Cubs.
Verlander has cleared revocable waivers, so the Tigers are free to discuss him in trade talks even now that the July 31 deadline has passed. Of course, all of the same obstacles that likely prevented a Verlander trade from being consummated are still in place — Verlander’s age (34), large contract (around $63.25MM through the 2019 season), the Tigers’ reported willingness to pay relatively little of that remaining salary, his no-trade clause, and the fact that Verlander has been only a solid pitcher this season rather than the rotation-topping ace he has been in 2016 and past seasons.
It’s worth noting that Verlander has been pitching better as of late, posting a 2.31 ERA over his last six starts (including six shutout innings of the Astros themselves on July 31). Houston also left the deadline trade market relatively empty-handed, only acquiring Francisco Liriano from the Blue Jays as lefty bullpen relief after missing out on Zach Britton.
The Astros were also linked to several starting pitchers, and they continue to have a need for rotation help now that Lance McCullers is on the 10-day DL with back problems. Dallas Keuchel and a healthy McCullers sit firmly atop Houston’s rotation, with Collin McHugh, Mike Fiers, Brad Peacock and Charlie Morton all having delivered some good results when given the ball. Still, Verlander would be a much more proven addition to the Astros’ top three come the postseason, and he could be a difference-maker if he is able to recapture his old form.
I could see the Astros doing this. They have a good team of younger players which a well liked veteran could bring good morale. On top of that you get a ton of experience in the postseason and a reliable pitcher who can pitch Game 1-3 of a series. Plus Verlander is controlled for the next couple years giving the Astros a solid pitcher for the next couple postseason runs.
Honestly? If Keuchel and McCullers are healthy, he’s the number 4 starter.
Names aside, when health, Keuchel and McHugh have proven to be two of the top 10 pitchers in the AL, add a much better McCullers to that group this year and you are left with the four spot.
Verlander is still in that group obviously, but the decline puts him behind the other three.
No…just no.
Get past the name and yeah it’s true. In 2015 McHugh finished in the top 10 of Cy Young voting, got hurt and has come back to form so far this year. Verlander’s drop off this year, the even-keel performance of McHugh bypasses him.
Now when Verlander is on he is clearly better, but the postseason is about what you know you are going to get.
Healthy you are getting Ace or near Ace performance from Keuchel or McCullers. McHugh you are basically garunteed 6-7 innings and a QS.
The reason to add Verlander is because it forces Morton and Fiers to the pen adding depth to the team overall.
I think its a bit early to suggest McHugh is in a Cy Young form after only 16IP. On top of that his FIP is 4.52, and his BABIP is .238 so prepare for that ERA to go up.
Homerism at its finest
How’s does adding one pitcher force two pitchers to the pen, especially when the pitcher being added isn’t pitching better than the ones he’s replacing?
He’s not suggesting he’s in cy young form, but saying that kind of potential is there.
I think Verlander would be a savvy add for Houston, but only if 1) the prospect cost is low and Detroit eats minimal contract or 2) Houston parts with substantial prospects but Detroit eats a substantial part of that contract.
I (an avid Astros fan) fully expect McHugh to regress. He’s a guy that’s gonna give you quality innings at times, but he’s gonna get hit hard at times too. You can’t depend on that guy as your #3, but he’s a great #4 who will throw some really quality innings. Verlander is a guy they need, to a degree, but only at an appropriate cost.
In his words, “finished in the top 10 of Cy Young voting, got hurt and has come back go form so far this year.” I interpret that as back to top 10 Cy Young form.
Fair enough, I took at is just being a reasonably competent arm on the hill. If he is truly expecting top 10 in cy young voting type performance, he’s teetering on delusional.
I agree , McHugh had a good start to his career but has not shown much more than a number 3 or number 4.
Still no.
Because it would enable them to get either a Morton or Peacock in the pen if McCullers returns healthy then both could be relegated to strengthen the pen as both have great stuff and the Houston pen is weak. I just do not see Mr Crane eating that huge salary especially when he will need to pay Keuchel soon along with Springer and others.
Why would you put Peacock or Morton in the pen when Fiers is in the rotation?
4th starter? You must not follow much baseball.
Last time Keuchel and McHugh were considered top 10 pitchers in the AL was in 2015. Verlander was ok but finished strong that year, you mention how McHugh finished in top ten Cy young? Well Verlander should have won last year. Hes a proven ace and leader. And a franchise icon for over then years now. He is way more than just a “name” If he ends up in Houston, you guys better put some respect on his name. And he ll be your number one guy. Keuchel is great but to date he has had one good year. Last year he wasnt very good and this year hes been injured. Now Ill put respect in Keuchels name because I was one of the early ones who knew he was special back in2014. But hes not proven nor does he come w the track record JV does.
I really hope JV doesnt get traded but we have Fulmer.
Last time Keuchel was good? Have you checked him out at all this year?
McHugh may not be a top of the rotation option, but he’s a solid #3. His curve is nasty.
Verlander’s been a better pitcher in than his ERA in past years, but even his advanced stats have taken a nosedive this year. He’s a #4 for the Astros. His velocity is still there, but his changeup and curve aren’t doing as much as they were. Could be as simple as tweaking his approach, but I wouldn’t bet $70M on it.
If Keuchel and McCullers are “healthy”, McHugh, Morton, and Verlander would be similar to each other slotting in behind those two. Not sure why anyone is splitting hairs regarding who is better at this stage. The problem is that McCullers isn’t healthy, and Keuchel doesn’t look like himself.
You don’t add Verlander if this staff is healthy, but you certainly add him at this stage. I don’t see how it’s even a question. The Astros need a high ceiling guy that stays healthy, and Verlander fits the bill even if they have to take on a large part of the contract.
respek*
but they aren’t healthy, and it’s a good bet that they never will be
It’s also noteworthy that Verlander in 2017 currently has the highest average velocity since his 2011 MVP season; and he hit 101mph during the 7th inning against Baltimore on Friday.
What is his problem this year then? Havent really followed him this year but am curious if its not a Velo problem.
He plays on a bad defensive team with a rough bullpen. Two years ago fans were talking about moving him to the bullpen alla Lincecum, last year he almost wins the cy Young. He has the stuff still, the team around him is just past it’s window.
And he’s walking the most batters of his career
Currently same walk rate as 2008 and going down nicely. He is also striking out batters at a rate higher than his career average.
The walks are a problem but the shaky Doesn’t help his strand rate
How does a guy who’s 34 yrs old throw “faster than he used to”…???
“They’ve altered his mechanics”…..is probably the only answer. and with what’s being taught these days, and the rash of TJ surgeries (because of that teaching)…..Verlander scares me to death.
He’s a time bomb waiting to explode.
$56 million is guaranteed for ’18 & ’19,
If he’s healthy in ’19, he could get another 22 million for ’20 if the option vests.
Plus he has a Full No-Trade Clause.
Let the Tigers deal with those possibilities.
Pitchers tinker with their mechanics all the time.
Baseball is literally a game of adjustments. If pitchers don’t adjust their grips and mechanics, they won’t get very far.
What would have to happen for the ’20 option to vest?
The option only vests if Verlander finishes in the top five in Cy Young voting in 2019.
He used to be 95MPH-ish back in the 2011-2012 timeframe. Through the ’15 season there was a steady decline in his fastball speed. Part of that in ’14 and early ’15 he was dealing with an injury to his core muscles that it is believed by some contributed to the decline in his fastball speed.
In 2014 his fastball bottomed out at 93.3
by the end of ’15, his fastball started velocity started to recover resulting in a slight uptick in that year. 93.6
in 2016, 94.3, now in 2017 95.7…which is the highest he’s had since 2009 & 2010 when he had a few years above 96.
Conditioning probably has something to do with it.
As to his first half struggles…I’d guess with the change in velocity it took him a little while to adjust to his fastball coming back after years of watching it decline. Both in 2015 and 2016, his second halves were pretty good to say the least.
and if you are complaining about the potential of the 2020 option vesting…it only vests if he finishes in the TOP 5 of the Cy Young voting in the previous year. If he finishes in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting in his age 36 season in 2019, He’d be worth every penny of that $22M that he would get from that vesting option.
I agree he “could be” worth it…but that’s a huge “if” don’t you think? Velocity doesn’t make a pitcher. We have other starters who throw hard. But command and health are more important, and those are the things that should concern people about Verlander. Bodies don’t hold up. Would it be nice to have Verlander? Absolutely…but not at a high cost. People are talking about Fisher and Tucker both being gone. That’s ridiculous.
They should trade for Verlander… but only at the right cost. Seems like the perfect veteran guy to throw into October for a younger team.
If you want verlander, the tigers are gonna have to raid your farm system. No way he goes cheap
If the Astros take on all that contract he’ll be a lot cheaper than he would be otherwise, especially on a down year.
The package they get will be a direct result of how much of Verlander’s contract they pay. If they pay little to nothing then they’ll get little to nothing in return in the way of prospects. At this point his massive contract and who pays it would likely be the biggest hangup to a deal getting done. I can’t imagine Verlander shooting down a deal at this point in his career to a team that is set up to win over the next few years. Money is likely going to hold up any potential deals.
Stop being such a homer, it’s just embarrassing
Probably nothing to this. Astros are like every other team…….want something great for free
Something great 5 years ago. Currently a bloated veteran on the backend of his career. Fair value is a couple mid level prospects for the current version of verlander.
everyone seems to forget he should’ve won cy young last season
Should have if you are against giving it to a reliever. Britton was so good that I’d have voted for him. Now I see no way any reliever can really ever win it again.
Porcello deserved it last year. I get you guys don’t like the wins stat, which is fine. However, it seems more like you actively try and punish those that do get wins. Verlander was slightly better in some stats, but not overwhelmingly so. If you get a case with a guy with 16 wins and a 2.10 ERA vs. a guy with 21 and a 3.10 ERA, then i would never argue with giving it to the guy with 16. BUT Porcello had 22 with a 3.15 ERA and Verlander had 16 with a 3.04 ERA. That’s not overwhelming enough for voters to ignore the wins. The only thing Verlander was overwhelmingly ahead in was strikeouts and that is an overrated stat anyway.
K’ s as an over rated stat? Are you effing high? It removes the risk of an error or advancing a runner. If anything a high k rate should be about the epitome of a pitchers stats.
He was deserving but should have finished second. Wins are a meaningless stat, case in point Chris Archers 2016. He lost like 20
games, but had outstanding peripherals and is still considered an ace. Win-loss was the only stat that Porcello had on Verlander. Its a shame that eligible baseball writers who vote dont even follow their own sport. Ugh
Lol. No. Britton had a great year but no reliever will ever win that award. But then again the only reason why Porcello won it over Verlander was because he won more games than be did. Blech
No I just have a different opinion than you do.
Wins might be a meaningless stat to you, but they are not to voters. And your little ugh there at the end is not going to change any minds at all. Your opinion is not the be all and end all of life.
BTW, the Cy Young is named after the man with the most WINS in history, not the most strikeouts and not the best peripherals.
9 different relievers have won the Cy Young Award since it. For a reliever to win the award you need two things to happen.
1. A impossibly great season by a reliever (that happened in 2016)
2, A relatively weak season by every single starter in the league. (that did not)
It’s the same when considering pitchers for MVP. Unless there is not a position player that stands, pitchers will not win that award. When Verlander won in 2011, no one really stood out. Same with Kershaw in 2014.
Felix Hernandez won the award a few years back with a losing record. It is about peripherals.
Not hardly
It’s not about “punishing” pitchers for having higher win totals (or winning %). It’s about neither rewarding nor punishing them for a stat that’s irrelevant to judging pitching performance. In essence, you’re advocating punishing Verlander last year for receiving less run support and weaker bullpen performances in his starts, neither of which he could control.
Examples:
–Porcello’s run support was an MLB-leading 6.61 runs/start. Verlander’s 3.97 runs/start ranked 56th.
–BOS had the 9th-best bullpen ERA (3.56). DET ranked 24th (4.22).
–Porcello bequeathed 11 total baserunners (i.e. left his start mid-inning w/runners on base) to his bullpen. Boston RPs prevented all 11 from scoring, boosting Porcello’s W potential (not to mention his ERA). Verlander, meanwhile, watched his bullpen allow 8/15 bequeathed runners to score.
Britton overrated pitched to3 batters baloney
Before giving it to any reliever like britton when there was a clear winner in the starter department? Why not start putting obvious relievers into the HOF that deserve it like Lee Arthur Smith and his nearly 500 saves over a 15+ season career, none of which britton will sniff close to if half of during the entirety of his career.
getting relievers who deserve it into the HOF is of more import than is the Cy, double when relievers have their own separate
award for seasonal excellence anyway…
Felix had a winning record when he won it, but I’m not weighing in on the win-loss-Cy Young discussion
Do you have the BQR-S stat for this year for Verlander? I couldn’t find it, but bet it is sky high.
My argument with Verlander winning the Cy Young is the counting error where Verlander had more 1st place votes, Porcello was 2nd on most ppls ballot except those that voted for Britton, it just didn’t feel like the writers actually thought he was number one
Yeah they should really just vote for one guy. That would be better I think. Also, waaaay too much stock is being put into the Cy Young when people seem to think having some smart writers and a lot of clueless writers vote for an award. People find the system ridiculous, and still get worked up when it delivers results that don’t make sense. It doesn’t matter. We can all agree it’s stupid. I mean, Isiah Thomas got an all defensive team vote in the NBA, and John Scott played in the NHL all star game! Voting based awards don’t usually work out, because people are stupid.
Times have greatly changed since Cy Young’s time in the league. People have come to realize making the “W” such a weighed stat truly depends on defense and run support along with a few other more minor factors. That is a TEAM effort, not just the pitcher. He can’t control those factors unless he can strike out the world and the catcher hangs onto every strike 3.
In other words, the game has evolved and the Cy Young award voting is supposed to reflect that. Thus why the peripherals are much more elevated these days along with K rate.
Get with the times.
The complaint about last year’s Cy Young vote has to do with two writers not even listing JV on the ballot. They list him at all, he wins.
If the Orioles truly want to be contenders then why not go for Verlander. I know Angelos doesn’t spend on pitching, but if your not going to sell, why not go get something you actually cannot produce. A top of the rotation starter.
Because the orioles have a barren system and are a year away from their top players leaving with no starting rotation to speak of after this season as they spiral down into the depth of how bad the Astros were and the Philies are with nothing coming down in the next 3 years to give any semblance of hope they will be good again.
Angelos would rather save money, that’s why.
he’ll end up in Boston
Verlander is praying that the tigers trade him to new york!! clearly his #1 choice city!
clearly he wants to play in new york city, Kate Upton lives there!!
Ya… they apparently just bought property on the other coast. Nice try tho.
Kate was originally a yankees fan before she got w verlander
Where in the world did you come up with that?
Case of crackerjacks, singleton and a couple of batboys….and Detroit picks up next year’s salary and that is an ok trade.
It’s really not as awful of a contract as it’s being made out to be. It’s basically this season plus two years, unless he finishes in the top 5 of the Cy Young in 2019. A young team like the Astros would be getting a guy with plenty in the tank and a veteran presence. Verlander would go to a much better defensive team. It’s not like the Astros would be strapped for cap space to keep its stars. The awful contracts we actually have are V Mart and Sanchez.
So the Tigers will move Verlander’s contract for the kind of prospects they have received at the deadline?
Kyle Tucker is an untouchable.
Would Tucker even be on the table for Verlander if he wasn’t untouchable? I’m not so sure he nets a teams top guy(s).
Depends on the money Detroit eats.
Would still like to see him in Atlanta. I think his ERA drops in the NL and the team seriously needs a starting pitcher to mentor the kids who is not over 40.
Feel pretty good about the lineup and the kids coming up, pick up Arrieta in offseason and the rotation looks pretty good.
not sure if Verlander is the answer but i just don’t see the Astros reaching their goals this year with their current rotation.
Two issues I’m curious about:
1) Has Verlander indicated the teams for which he’d waive his no-trade clause? Given Detroit’s publicized willingness to trade him, in addition to fairly rampant trade speculation, I’d expect Al Avila to seek Verlander’s approval before advancing too far in negotiations with a prospective trade partner.
2) It’s my understanding that an acquiring team, like Houston, could only realistically trade prospects NOT on its 40-man roster at this point. (40-man prospects would have to pass through revocable waivers like any other 40-man player, which makes them virtually untradable). That takes Tucker, Fisher, Martes, and Moran off the table (if they were even on the table in the first place). Bukauskas can’t be traded yet, and I assume Paulino’s off the board as well.
So, disregarding their likelihood of being traded, Houston’s best non-40-man prospects (arbitrarily using MLB.com’s rankings) are Whitley, Franklin Perez, Yordan Alvarez, Cameron, Cionel Perez, Rogers, and Hector Perez (that’s a lot of Perezes). Depending on how much of Verlander’s salary Houston’s willing to pay, there seem to be enough non-40-man pieces to get a deal done, if Houston’s so inclined.
To the best of my knowledge Verlander said he is too old to go through a total rebuild. He would prefer to play his whole career as a Tiger, but understands that is highly unusual in today’s game. He would like to pitch in meaningful games, especially playoff games.
He also said if the organization felt they would be better off by trading him, he would be open to it. He also called it a win/win for him as he doesn’t have to go somewhere he doesn’t want to go to. He said he was not going to think about it until they presented him with something and said Avila had not asked him where he might want to go, but that was before the deadline.
Kyle Tucker is not on the 40 man yet. Either is Whitley, their first rd pick from last year. Yes Bukauskas can be traded now actually. The last CBA changed the rule form a year waiting till immediately I believe (unless they still have to wait till offseason).
Hope that clear things up a little
Prospects who signed after being drafted this season can’t be traded until after the world series (as you said the “off season”). They can’t be PTBNL either.
I think though somebody like Fisher or Martes “could be” the player to be named later in theory though….right?
I believe that is correct. If they are worried about getting them thru waivers, Fisher, or any one else, could be a ptbnl.
Seemed like you were implying that Tucker is on the 40 man roster, but that is false. If you quickly looked at the roster and saw Tucker, then that would be Kyle Tucker’s older brother, Preston Tucker. Kyle, the top prospect, is eligible to be traded, but Luhnow still has him untouchable. Also Paulino is probably not eligible either? He was suspended, but I don’t think that takes him off the 40 man?
Edit: I say eligible, but I mean realistically since everyone can be traded, but players on the 40 man are unlikely since they have to clear waivers too
Verlander has only been a solid pitcher this year? Really? What do you have to do to be a top of the rotation guy? Out of 150 MLB starters he is tied for 12th in quality starts. With 30 teams, that seems to be top of the rotation results.
He is only 2 quality starts behind Darvish and Archer and only three behind Kershaw, Scherzer and Fulmer, and closing fast.
I caution people using averages on a sample size of 22.Two terrible starts against the Indians have skewed his numbers.
A guy who finished second in Cy Young voting last year should be getting more respect. I can’t believe the negativity. Verlander may not be pitching with the consistency of last year, but he is still one of the top starters in baseball.
A 4.20 ERA and a 1.409 WHIP
That’s a fourth starter. Not a real good fourth starter though.
I tried to warn you about the foolishness of using averages, like ERA and WHIP, in trying to reflect on past and predict future performance with a meager sample size of 22/23.
Even at that the average ERA this year is 4.34, so 4,20 is a 2.5 starter by your reckoning.
@Pike
Some people just don’t want to listen.
The fact that he has a low 2.00s ERA in the second half and the fact that he has his best velocity since his MVP season should be eye-opening to everyone.
Verlander has plenty left in the tank, and I could honestly see him pitch into his late 30s, like a John lackey. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t continue pitching after his deal is up with Detroit.
In 32 innings since the break, he’s pitched to a 2.51 ERA, .205 BAA, .265 wOBA, 3.64 FIP, 3.66 xFIP, 10.58 K/9 rate, and 2.0 K/BB ratio with 95+ velocity. But that’s a small sample size and it came against Toronto, KC x 2, an injury-plagued Astros offense (no Springer or Correa), and Baltimore.
I’m not scared of trading for him. I’m not scared of giving up a few good prospects for him. I’m not scared of his contract. I’m scared of doing all three based on a five-game run. Where his BABIP against is .253 on the same ground ball and line drive rates he’s had all year.
How do august trades work for players NOT on the 25? If Verlander is traded for a prospect does that prospect have to clear waivers?
Does it matter whether a player is on the 40 or not?
any player not on the 40 man roster, can be traded, Everyone on it would have to clear waivers first, which in this case Verlander did
Al Avila’s comments on a Verlander trade were correct. “Don’t hold your breath.”
RIP Don Baylor
1. JV does NOT need to be traded now. Tigers are fine with him through the length of the contract. He is worth more than a QO per year, let’s say $20MM/yr. He gets paid $28MM/. Not much a difference.
2. If they want to trade him, 20+ teams would be interested in the offseason if the Tigers are willing to eat some salary. Now, they only have 1-3 teams interested.
2. That being stated. There will be a team that regrets NOT getting JV. He will have a great last 2 months, IMO. He is back.
You’ve identified the 2 of the biggest hoops to jump through. Both will be necessary to make any deal, but a 3rd is also needed.
1. $28 mil/yr (100% guaranteed) for a 34 yr old pitcher is a Big Hit for most clubs. Only a few clubs will be able to add that payroll, without exceeding the cap. $8 million/yr IS a lot of money, even in these times.
2. Tigers will HAVE to eat some of that money if they want any kind of decent prospect in return. No team is going to give up top prospects in a trade for one of the highest paid players (who is, again…..in his mid-thirties). If the Tigers want another team to absorb that entire contract, they’ll be lucky to get some reclamation project, or lottery ticket in return.
3. Possibly the biggest hoop……Verlander has a Full No-Trade Clause. He gets to decide if he goes to any other team. This seriously limits where he will go, and if he goes at all. Most of the teams in the playoff hunt, have no cap room for additional payroll. The teams who do…….are rebuilding teams, for the most part.
1. Tigers can eat the $8MM. That is only $16MM total…. for more prospects, that is doable.
2. Then the Tigers should NOT trade him. He is worth more to the Tigers
3. JV will move to Houston, LA, NYY, Bos, or Chicago right now. One of those teams will regret not getting him.
They can take their time with a trade and his approval in the offseason. No rush.
What would it realistically take prospect wise to get JV to Boston. I’m just curious to see what Detroit fans think. I don’t think it will happen but you never know with DD and he is the one that inked that contract with JV.
You are talking about the face of the franchise, drafted and brought up thru the farm system, only playing for one team, and still effective. Think Derek Jeter, Mike Schmidt, Kirby Puckett, King Felix… Whether you like it or not, this type of player cannot be “dumped”. It leaves a bad taste with the fan base. Somehow, the team trading for him will have to give up a top prospect, so the Tigers look like they got something for their future Hall of Famer. If the that doesn’t happen, they will keep him and sell milestone tickets like NYY did with Jeter. It’s a no lose for Detroit.
You are probably right I’m sure DD has kicked the tires the problem is that no one values JV as much as Detroit. I’m sure the Red Sox are not willing to trade Groome just like the Astros aren’t willing to trade any top talent. I think JV is still good but his contract will eliminate any other teams for giving Detroit top prospects.
kbarr888 did a good job in laying out why a JV trade is difficult based on salary cap and Verlander’s desire to play for a playoff contender. The pool of teams that fit the criteria is quite small.
I do take issue with the 8 million is a lot of money in today’s market.. That money can be easily be made up on the revenue side. The difference between JV and a QO pitcher can be the difference between making and missing the playoffs., between advancing or going home in the playoffs or winning or losing a championship.
Heck, the increased attendance alone between JV’s starts and a QO starter alone more than makes up for the salary difference between the two.
There is no salary cap guys! This is baseball, not football.
Nearly every team could acquire JV without putting them in luxury tax, and the teams that the big market contending teams can definitely afford to go over the luxury tax threshold- (some of them are already over).
It’s luxury tax threshold, not a salary cap.
And there are only six teams in baseball (SFG, WAS, TEX, CHC, BAL, LAA) that are not already over the luxury tax threshold that would go over with Verlander’s contract.
We know better. It is a brutal detterance.
If Houston fan consider Verlander a #4 on your Houston staff, why bother even considering this whole thing?? Verlander has not got very good run support in some of his outings. I say go ahead, don’t do it since you guys have no respect for him. My $$ is on you guys not getting to the WS this year. This guy is a bulldog and would help your team get there…. but forget it. Your GM screwed up plain and simple- hoarding the prospects. Theo is not gunshy!
I just don’t see Verlander being dealt anywhere. There are too many stoppers. Even if he was at the peak of his career right now the price to acquire him is just too high.
Astros have been giving lowball offers for prime cheap controllable starters/good relievers in greater demand……they’d have to do a 180 or be shamed into moving off the stance of declaring any top prospect untouchable……and for an older expensive Verlander it makes less sense than past nice starter + reliever options like gray/Q/britton/hand
There is absolutely no proof of this. I guarantee the Astros were going to move big prospects for Britton. The Astros have shown they are willing to deal significant prospects. The Giles trade and Gomez trade all consisted of top 50 prospects at the time.
The Moran injury really hurt them. He had a breakout year and is blocked.
The Astros don’t need a starter, they need significant bullpen help
Verlander is a washed up old guy. Not worth the cost the Tigers are likely trying to charge. So what you get is one or two fewer prospects and an average starter. No thanks.
Funny. If it ever happens, some will say it’s a panic move while others will call it shrewd…
His declining talent and age plus the albatro$ contract not making for much of a market. Tigers unwillingness to eat a majority of $ not helping. Stros played waiting game on Quintana and that backfired also swung and missed on other starting pitching. Do they have enough SP in a short playoff series? I hope so I will be cheering for them, like their squad.
If a team was willing to take on Verlander’s entire contract, they would have put in a claim for him when he was on revocable waivers. It’s obvious that no team was willing to take this chance what teams think of his performance/contract situation. If the Tigers aren’t willing to chip in a considerable sum of cash (I’d estimate at least $20M), then he’s not going anywhere. The Tigers’ front office can’t justify giving away the longtime face of the franchise for nothing (even though the other 29 teams were unwilling to gamble on that occurring) and no team is going to give up worthwhile prospects for a guy they weren’t willing to take for free.
If nobody wanted Harper for free with his contract they probably don’t want verlandet for free either
Nothing in life is “free”. Only tradable if the Tigers pay close to half his remaining contract. After last year, he can certainly rebound but the money is too great given his 2017 inconsistency.
I have heard trades for a player to be named later. My guess is the money part has to be decided up front. You can not say we will take half his contract and an additional percentage depending on number of innings in 2018, and 2019.. League would not allow this maybe.
Not that I expect this to happen, but what if the Tigers ate Verlander’s entire contract? They aren’t really going to contend again until maybe 2020 at the earliest. The money they eat could perhaps be viewed as a (very expensive) fast-track back to contention (especially if they also raid the Braves system by trading Fulmer to ATL, but that’s a another matter).
What do you all think the Tigers could get from Houston, or from any other suitor I suppose, if they kick in ALL the money owed on Verlander’s contract?
I’m just wondering the Red Sox could really use JV especially if Price isn’t coming back this year. If Detroit ate the rest of this years contract what would the Red Sox have to give up for JV? I’m sure DD is kicking the tires on that one. If Detroit eats the rest of this years salary then the Red Sox will get there reset on the luxury tax and add a solid pitcher. I’m sure Boston could eat the rest of his salary then next two years. The question is what would it take to get him knowing that Groome and Devers are off the table?
I think the problem is salary cap. The Red Sox are close to it there , so even if the Tigers ate all their salary I believe Verlander’s salary would count on their salary cap this year and next year. I am not sure if releasing Sandoval freed up enough cap space.
I don’t know that it could be made without Devers. Avila seems to be trying to corner the 3B market with his trades.
The Astros need bullpen help. Forget a starter. Not sure what reliever would pass through waivers.
none worth picking up…
The lack of necessary acquisitions at the deadline this season, really hurt. Lunhow is a good GM with talent evaluation and team building, but isn’t good at trades. The Astros were either going to pay way too much to get a Gray/Verlander/Quintana, or get hosed like they did for Giles or Gonzales.
Losing Harris a month ago really hurt the bullpen, so adding a guy like Hendricks or Hand should have also been figured out…