Though the Twins have received trade interest in both ace Ervin Santana and closer Brandon Kintzler, it would be “very difficult to justify selling” either hurler with the team still in the pennant race, MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets. Minnesota enters play today just 1.5 games out of first place in the AL Central and one game out of a wild card slot, and if anything, the Twins look like they’ll be trying to acquire pitching at the deadline rather than sell arms.
Here’s more from around the division…
- Glen Perkins isn’t sure he is interested in pitching in 2018, though the former Twins closer tells Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer Press that he is still determined to complete his long recovery from 2016 shoulder surgery to return to the bigs this season. “I still just want to pitch in a game. I mean, I do. I’m aware that the further along this goes, the less likely that is. But as long as I have a chance, I’m going to try,” Perkins said. The southpaw tossed just two innings in 2016 before being shut down due to the surgery, and Perkins has yet to be cleared for a full rehab assignment. The Twins have a club option for Perkins in 2018 that can (and almost surely will) be bought out for $700K, though Perkins said he is too focused on his recovery to worry about contract issues at this point.
- Injuries have made it difficult for the Indians to fully access their needs heading into the deadline, though prospect Francisco Mejia is “the magic bullet” the club possesses if it wants to land a “premium” everyday player or starting pitcher, Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer writes. Mejia is widely regarded as one of the game’s best prospects, and the catcher has only increased his stock in 2017 with a strong season (.336/.385/.552) at Double-A. While Mejia is regarded as the Tribe’s catcher of the future, Cleveland was prepared to trade him to Milwaukee last summer for as part of a prospect package for Jonathan Lucroy before Lucroy used his no-trade protection to block the deal.
- With Michael Fulmer receiving lots of interest, MLive.com’s Evan Woodbery wonders if the Tigers could package the young starter with one of the team’s unappetizing big contracts (Woodbery uses Jordan Zimmermann as an example) in order to both get some salary off the books and gain some good prospects. “Maybe a team with space under the luxury tax threshold would simply see it as an acquisition cost for getting Fulmer,” Woodbery writes. In my opinion, I doubt the Tigers would be willing to move Fulmer unless they were ready to go into a total rebuild, as the right-hander is so hugely valuable given his talent and controllability. As Woodbery notes, it can’t hurt for Tigers GM Al Avila to explore all possibilities, though finding a team with both the means and willingness to both absorb money and surrender a big prospect haul will be extremely difficult.
Tigers will not move Fulmer. He is relatively cheap and is simply their best player right now. If they want to dump salary, they will have to move JV
I think what he is getting at is that in order to dump salary, Fulmer could be the piece to get another team to bite down on a Zimmerman or Verlander contract. Makes perfect sense. The Tigers are old and their farm is not at a point where they can easily transition out the old with the new. They may have to do something they don’t want to do (Fulmer) to do something they need to do (reduce salary and add multiple prospects). As far as Fulmer goes, he is not an ace. He is a good #2. Don’t let him stop what needs to happen.
You dont even know what youre talking about. Fulmer is an ace. Absolutely. He has had maybe 1-2 bad starts that jumped his ERA to over 3. Other than that he has been absolutely dominant.
“But ZIPS obviously loves him, despite the lack of strikeouts, which is pretty interesting. And as I asked people in baseball about him, the responses were almost unanimously positive. Jose Quintana with better stuff. What Sonny Gray was a couple of years ago. Zack Greinke‘s name even came up, referencing a guy who figured out how to strike batters out later in his career, as a reason to not care too much about Fulmer’s current whiff rates.
The general consensus I got was that this is the type of guy on whom FIP-style metrics will miss the most. And unlike last year, the Statcast data actually supports the notion that Fulmer is the primary reason why hitters aren’t doing anything when they make contact against him: his .287 xwOBA is not far off his .275 wOBA allowed. Fulmer gets a lot of weak grounders, so even though he’s not missing bats, he’s creating outs.
So, yeah, Michael Fulmer. He’s not a household name yet, but he does indeed look like one of the best young starting pitchers in baseball. And with five years of control remaining, the Tigers have the thing every contender wants: a cheap young frontline starter who isn’t going anywhere any time soon.”
The Tigers have been stubbornly staring down the barrel of a full blown rebuild for a few years now. Fuller seems more valuable as a trade asset at this point.
They almost made the playoff last season. If they would have had a better record against the Tribe, theyd have made it.
Guaranteed the Tigers will be top dogs in the Central before White Sox
If the tigers don’t rebuild , the white sox will be the top dog before them. Look at the trades the white sox have made this offseason.
I agree that he is a frontline starter. Currently a borderline ace perhaps which is a number two. It’s just my opinion but with just over six strikeouts a game – that is not a dominant starting pitcher. Aces are dominant. However, he is consistently very good. A number two… for now. Perhaps he will develop into one.
Brilliant and I guess if they lost less games they might’ve won more games too
And if somebody isn’t a smart ass does that mean they are a dumb ass?
The white sox farm system is immensely deeper than the tigers
A farm system is a farm system. Prospects.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. When the game situation calls for it he can strike guys out, but his pitching philosophy is to pitch deep into games and get the W. instead of striking guys out which takes a lot of pitches he usually gets guys out in 3-4 pitches or less. Guys like Scherzer and JV had a lot of K’s but couldn’t get out of the 6th inning a few years ago when they were in their prime. He consistently goes deep into games and has proved that he has the stuff to be a K-Artist. Stats don’t represent the immense talent of Fulmer correctly. The scariest thing tho is that he has yet to hit his prime…
Haha. Yeah, Lucas Giolito cant even get out of AAA ball. He has a 5.00 ERA ahhahaha
Division games are way more important. Learn something.
K’s mean nothing.
The point is deal Fulmer and Zimmerman and 0 or just a little $ or deal Zimmerman and send some huge amount of $.
Tell that to everyone that was saying Q wasn’t and Ace because he doesn’t strike out enough people. The guy isn’t an Ace yet period. There are only 5 or 6 of those in the game and he isn’t one of them. If you want to argue he is a #1 on some teams sure I buy that. K’s absolutely do mean something the elite guys strike out more then Fulmer walk less then Fulmer and go deeper into games then Fulmer. He is young pitcher and maybe he becomes an Ace in the future but right now no.
The point was they’d have to include Fulmer to convince a team to take one of those huge contracts, whether it’s JZ, JV or other. I still doubt they’ll do that.
They arent in that desperate of a need to trim salary. Sure, theyd like to cut. But some people think the TIgers want a payroll of ZERO.
They have Sanchez and Kinsler coming off book after the year. Thats. 30 million. JD is a Free agent. Thats another 12 off. So they have 42 million coming off payroll after this seaon. After next season Vmart is off and thats another 18 million. Following that, Verlander is off at 30 million
BTW, Upton may opt out at years end now that he is actually playing baseball. Thatd be 22 more million off after this year
In the next 3 years theyll have 80 million coming off and by that time theyll have some youngster and Zimmermann contract likely wont even matter.
Crap, forgot Mike Pelfrey and his 8 million coming off the books after year. Same with the 5.5 million coming off after the season from Mark Lowe. You can add the 2.8 coming off from Justin WIlson as well
So, assuming Upton doesnt opt out, they still have 55.5 million off the books at years end. With Upton opt out, 75.5 off
Chances are the Tigers will pick up Kinsler’s option at $5 mill for next year. They will not pick up Sanchez’s option and they could release VMart this off-season.
its a 10 million option. They wont be picking that up. not after the season he is having. They could, because he is still good. But, I think theyll let Machado take over 2b or get one in a trade.
Thanks, I stand corrected on the contract. I still see them picking it up and as you said, he’s good. He would have trade value at the deadline next year if he performs (and he’s been pretty good in Detroit besides this year). VMart is done after this year.
Vmart has been hitting the ball hard. Its not been falling. Check the stats.. He cant run and needs a walker, but he has 1 more year left in him. They arent gonna pay him 18 million to sit at home or play elsewhere
You are right the problem has never been money. The contracts have always been managed well. The problem remains they don’t have talented replacements for JD Martinez, VMart, Kinsler, Iglasias and Avila. If they deal it will be to acquire quality replacements.
He can’t run is exactly the point. Tigers aren’t shy about releasing guys: Sheffield and Easley come to mind. Sheffield was owed $14.4 mill.
Younger and more athletic would be nice.
Kinsler has an option that will be picked up, so he’ll be off the books after “18.
The Tigers wont release Vmart in the offseason. If they found what he did this year as unacceptable, he would have already been released. They will continue to hope that his legs will get better in the off-season (though there is not reason to believe this), and he will be at spring training next year. It will be a different story if he chooses to walk away.
They have to buy Kinsler out for 5 million or pay him 10 million. I can’t imagine they would let him go to save 5 million.
They had replacement. Maybe they have a plan to replace him. If not, he will be a Tiger because he can still hit the ball hard
That’s all well and good, but the Tigers don’t have any prospects in the system to replace even the production they’re getting from those guys, right? Letting all your FA or potential FA go is fine for cutting the bottom line, but dealing them for any sort of prospect should be the goal. Otherwise, they’re going to waste Fulmer’s cheap years with a bad team around him.
Cleveland was prepared to trade Mejia last season because Lucroy was in the deal. They will not be searching for a catcher this time around, so they should stick their guns and not trade him for anybody.
only if they can get a controlable star that puts them as favorites in the AL
If they trade him as part of a deal, they’d better be getting a top notch player with multiple years of control left. So I agree…he and Tristan McKenzie should both be borderline untouchable at this point. Any other prospects in the system can be had in the right deal, even Bradley.
Agreed, Mejia and McKenzie are pretty close to untouchable.
twins should at least listen on Santana if they don’t do well the next few weeks in.
Lol at these guys citing an MLive baseball “writer”. Those guys are all hacks.
With the class you show, im sure youre a true professional
Pretty soon they’ll be quoting Bleacher Report.
Woodberry doesn’t understand baseball 101.
You don’t lower the value of one of the hottest commodities in baseball like that.
depends what you do with the $$$$ saved. but in general, yes youre right.
BTW, someone close to the TIgers organization has said Fulmer aint going anywhere. They might if they are absolutely blown away, but the odds are about 0 in 95345y78475384097539857849 that someone offers a big haul like that
I don’t understand at all the notion the Tigers would trade Fulmer just to offload JV or Zimmermann’s contract. I get it would be better for them to have a lower payroll, but to trade an ace like Fulmer just to shed one bad contract is nuts. Why would they, so they can free up money for more bad contracts? Also, everyone hoping Upton opts out, I don’t really understand that either. He’s playing at about exactly the value of his contract. Even if he did opt out, is there any guarantee the money would be reinvested back into the team? I get the Tigers are in dire need of a rebuild, but to add a bad contract like Zimmermanns in a potential Fulmer deal and lessen the return would be horrible.
No one wants Upton to opt out if he keeps playing like he has been. However, his 1st season in Detroit it looked he belonged in A-ball. Just play well, Thats it.
I truly think that Detroit Fans figure Upton is the reason that the Tigers aren’t able to keep JD, who is a fan favorite. (Blue collar town can get behind the “from waivers to savior” story line). If Upton , who is having a very solid season, does decide to leave, I’m sure everyone is hoping the Tigers would then go after JD in free agency.
I also agree, trading Fulmer with Zimmermann or JV makes no sense. They free up money, then have zero starting pitching. Now, you can get get a HUGE HAUL for Fulmer and get rid of Zimmermann, no one is fighting that.. And even then, a team would have to offer quite a bit. LOL
If the Tigers package fulmer with Zimmermann, Avila deserves to be fired. Thatd be like the Angels packaging trout with pujols to get rid of his contract. Just take the L on the contract and don’t diminish your most valuable assets value.
He might get fired anyway. Alex Avila and JD have a history of injuries. Move them before they get hurt.
Like it or not the tigers going to rebuild and Fulmer has more value than any other player on their roster. They would get more for him than what the sox got for Quintana. Fulmer will be shopped in the winter if not traded by the deadline. A rebuild will last longer than four years, the amount of time they control him.
There will be changes in Detroit, but I don’t think I’d call it a rebuild.. They will do some retooling. They may have teams talk to them about Fulmer, but they won’t be shopping him. The Tigers have their TV contract coming up and until it’s signed,
they can’t afford to rebuild. TV Deals determine the financial wherewithal of the future of the franchise. If the fans aren’t watching, the dollars for that contract bottom out.
Those are some good points. I also would not call the Tigers a rebuild. They arent that bad off. The players have been inconsistent. Theyd be .500 at least if they played consistent baseball. They will have Christian Stewart in RF next season. He can hit. He wont hit like JD Martinez, but he wont be a .200 hitter. He has power. If Norris takes a step forward theyll have 2 young and solid starters with a likely solid JV. Jimenez is in AAA and will be a young and talented guy in the pen. They will likely make some value signings and hope to hit on some. If that happens they can compete next season and the future looks even brighter with Burrows, Manning, and some bullpen help down there.
When is the FSD contract up? I don’t see a total rebuild either.
I don’t think Fulmer is an Ace but he is a very good cost controlled young pitcher those are the kind of guys you build around. My guess is unless someone overpays they won’t move him.
Fulmer will be their Ace next year.
It depends on your definition of an ace if your definition is what a lot people tried to against Q when he was on the market then no he isn’t an Ace but if your definition of an Ace is number one on your team then sure I’ll buy that. I think there are only very few true aces like Kershaw, Sale, Shertzer, Syndergaard those are aces Fulmer does not fit that category he is really good though.
Fulmer is an ace. And if you dont think he currently is youd be nuts to think he wont be very, very, very soon.
Do you really compare home to the guys I said above really?
I want to see more before I call him an ace. He doesn’t compare at this point to the true aces of the game maybe he will in time but the numbers say no at this time. I don’t want to hear that he is special and advanced metrics don’t apply they do. He is really good on a good team with an Ace his is a two on the half the teams he is a 1 though. He will have to improve his peripherals to be called an ace.
I have written about this Fulmer trade before. You ONLY trade him if you can jettison one of the four big contracts. Zimmerman or Miggy would be ideal. They will still get 4 prospects back and 2 being top 50. Houston should make this deal and if you add JW to the mix, 6 to 7 prospects back 3 being top end. Houston could beat LAD with the addition of JW, Miggy and Fulmer!
That’s not how it works you lessen Fulmers value with bad contracts. If they decide to trade Fulmer he is best traded on his own.
Youre just making the assumption that is lessens his value. Do you truly know this? Nope.
Yes I do
Fulmer is part of the rebuilding. I hope they don’t move him.
Clueless
Dodgers should go after Fulmer and Wilson for Brock Stewart ,Trevor Oaks and DJ Peters and Kyle Farmer and some $ to help pay those big contracts they still have left.
I think that might be a little light….like remove all 4 players the Tigers are getting and replace them with 4 of the Dodgers top 6 prospects and it goes somewhere.
That trade might not even get Wilson.
As in, replace them with Alvarez, Verdugo, Buehler, and Diaz/Lux. Fulmer is a TOR pitcher in his second year. He’s more valuable then Bellinger right now. Plus Wilson? Yeah, that wouldn’t have cut it
Ok might be light but giving those top prospects for Fulmer n Wilson would be stupid.. not worth that much.
Fulmer and Wilson aren’t worth top prospects?
I’m very happy my tribe didn’t trade for lucroy. Would have been disasterous.