The Cardinals and catcher Yadier Molina have finalized a three-year extension that will guarantee the seven-time All-Star $60MM, making him the majors’ highest-paid catcher by average annual value. Molina will collect $20MM in each season of the deal, which doesn’t include any deferred money.
St. Louis and Molina were reportedly in serious talks over the duration of Spring Training, with an update last weekend suggesting that the two sides had “made progress” on a deal. Molina is represented by MDR Sports Management.
The new contract will keep the franchise icon in St. Louis through the 2020 campaign rather than allowing him to hit free agency at season’s end. Though he’s set to turn 35 years of age in July, Molina remained a productive backstop in 2016, hitting .307/.360/.427 with eight homers and 38 doubles in 581 plate appearances.
Molina also retained well above-average marks in terms of pitch-framing — a trend that has followed him throughout a career that has seen him earn eight Gold Glove nods, four Platinum Glove Awards and a Silver Slugger. He’s garnered MVP votes on five occasions, including a pair of Top 4 finishes in 2012 and 2013.
Of course, Molina is hardly without his red flags. He’s already 34 years of age and will turn 35 this July, meaning he’ll be 38 years of age for the final three months or so of this contract in 2020. Beyond that, Molina has seen his power numbers dip since his 2011-13 peak.
While some of that could potentially be attributed to a surgeries to repair torn ulnar collateral ligaments in each of his thumbs, and he did demonstrate an uptick in pop last year, there’s no guarantee that he’ll return to his previous levels of power output. And, if his power production trends in the other direction, as it did in 2015, Molina’s limited on-base skills (6.2 percent walk rate since 2013) create the possibility that he could be a decidedly below-average hitter. In fact, dating back to 1900, only nine qualified catchers have turned in even a league-average batting line between their age-35 and age-37 seasons (hat tip: Fangraphs leaderboards).
On the defensive side of the coin, though his framing marks remained excellent, Molina threw out a career-worst 21 percent of attempted base thieves during the 2016 campaign. His career 42 percent caught-stealing rate lends plenty of reason to expect a rebound, but the surprising dip in effectiveness is nonetheless worth monitoring.
Molina joins Buster Posey, Brian McCann and Russell Martin as catchers with average annual values of more than $16MM on their respective contracts. Molina suggested last week that there are “too many” catchers earning more than him. Posey’s $18.56MM annual rate had been tops among backstops, but he’ll slide to second in the wake of the Molina extension.
From a bigger-picture perspective, the move to extend Molina effectively blocks top catching prospect Carson Kelly for another three seasons, which will inevitably lead to some degree of trade speculation surrounding the talented 22-year-old. Kelly rates as a consensus Top 100 prospect, with MLB.com rating him 39th overall in the game. ESPN’s Keith Law ranked him 51st on his Top 100 this offseason, while Baseball America tabbed him at No. 65 overall and Baseball Prospectus placed him 81st in the game.
FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal first reported the two sides were nearing a deal. FanRag’s Jon Heyman first reported an agreement was in place, and he reported the exact value. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported the yearly salaries. Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
calikid13
I really hope not… Overpay.
redbirds22
How is this an over pay? He has been under paid for years. Let’s say it’s 20 mil 20 mil 15 mil pay break down that’s a cheap price for good D catcher, BEST pitch caller in the game
RedBirdsSwaff
Agreed.. it’s three years not 5. Cards can afford it. Yadi is going to work his ass off for that money too.
GoPackGo12
You’re also assuming it’s for 55M if it’s for 65M you’re looking at 25, 25, 20…you’re paying a pretty steep premium for a great leader and defensive catcher. Lord knows his bat and 8HR’s aren’t worth anywhere near that
Lanidrac
The fact that he was underpaid still doesn’t make this new deal any less of an overpay. Baseball finances don’t work that way.
brandons-3
No, Baseball finances don’t work that way. Class organizations who recognize and take care of their own, however, do. Yadi joins the likes of Jeter, Chipper, and Kobe as players who were generously compensated beyond their market value in their final years. Class move that doesn’t hinder them. Typical St. Louis.
timyanks
didn’t work on pujols. not, typicle st louis
Wainofan
Cards offered pujols well beyond his declining years value, the angels are hamstrung by pujols contract. Pujols leaving was his fault, not class organizations. If yadi wanted 10 years Cards would have said no way. Three you can absorb and not be hurt, especially with their payroll being low and more coming off the books and new tv deal starting next year, the money is easily there for Yadi.
headhawks
what planet you from cali?? The man is best catcher in MLB and has been for sometime (especially on defensive side…
chesteraarthur
This is a joke, yes?
MB923
Posey is better
jdgoat
He’s the best in the MLB, if lucroy, posey, and maybe Martin, realmuto and grandal all didn’t exist
CompanyAssassin
You might want to take martin, realmuto and grandal far out of the equation. They don’t compare.
biasisrelitive
if Martin plays like he did in the second half he’s out otherwise he’s better. realmuto is young but will be better. grandal is way better right now and it’s not close
Cleveland - City of Losers
He was. He hasn’t been the best for quite a few years. He’s 3rd best in the NL Central even.
Lanidrac
Nah, he’s once again the best in the NL Central now that Lucroy no longer plays there. I agree that there are now a few ahead of him across MLB now, though.
Although, it is rather silly to be paying a catcher his age this kind of money, which is even more than he’s making per year on his current contract. Nobody would give him this kind of cash in free agency.
kbarr888
The difference of opinion is usually because some guys prefer defense and some prefer offense. Yadi is definitely one of the best defensive catchers in baseball, but his bat is starting to decline. Those who value “offense” will be critical, and those who value “defense” will still drool.
I happen to lean towards the bat. If you can score a ton of runs, the defense is less critical. I support 3/48 – 3/54 max. 3/65 will come back to haunt them. 4/65 could put Yadi in a position to be a player/coach in 2020 and a bench coach in ’21.
joshb600
Nice! Good for Yadi. Slight overpay but it’s not my money. Lol
I wonder if its 3 years, on top of next years option?
vinscully16
… love Yadi.
robertj53086
Glad to hear, congrats to Yadi!
pjmcnu
Jonathan Lucroy just popped a bottle of champagne…
CursedRangers
No doubt!
smelliott00
I would definitely say it’s an overpay for the production we will likely be getting over the course of this contract, but Yadi has definitely earned himself a good payday and it would have been very hard to watch him even hit the open market, much less walk away. Glad he will now be a Cardinal for life.
stl_cards16 2
Better than I expected. Yadi gets his money, we get to see him finish his career in St. Louis, and it’s not a contract that’s going to hold the franchise back in any way.
Dave 32
Great deal as long as they don’t expect him to start the third year and he’ll just mentor Carson Kelly, assuming he’s ready for the majors.
I’d have honestly rather seen a 2 year extension at 20-23ish so you can bring up Kelly in 2018 and have Yadi and him split some time but I understand it’s a little awkward as long as Yadi isn’t performing poorly.
gemrookie
I agree with your “even more money for 2 years” sentiment. Crazy as it may sound… at the rate MLB is going, heck, in a few years, $17-$18 mil. a year for Molina will look like a bargain. I’m telling u, either Harper or Trout is going to break MLB. It’ll be the shot heard around the world. While lotsa people think Yanks will give Harper $40 mil/yr., are forgetting one thing… weakest position on the Yanks is 3B (not withstanding their pitching woes). Machado is their guy. At a more reasonably approx. $250-$275 mil. contract. Yikes!
Steve Adams
Not related to the Molina talks, but I don’t even think $250MM would get Machado signed right now. In fact, as it stands, I’d say he has a better chance to break the $400MM barrier in free agency than Harper. The way the next two seasons play out will, of course, impact that outcome, but Machado’s earning power is among the best in the game at present.
kbarr888
Stanton got $325 million/13 yrs. Both of those guys will be expecting to exceed that number….IMHO.
Either could get a $400 million contract, but the years will determine “how expensive they are”. $400 mil/15 years is less than $27 mil/yr…………..(12 years would be $33 mil/yr).
Nobody pays either guy $40 mil/yr, unless it’s drastically deferred.
biasisrelitive
or a short deal 5/200
joshb600
Let’s open the debate here.
Assuming a few more typical Yadi years. Do you guys like his chances at the HOF?
moe 3
YES!!
cubsfan2489
There’s no debate, if he retired tomorrow he’d be a hall of famer
baines03
No he’s not. 33 WAR is very good but nowhere near great or HOF worthy.
tylerall5
The amount of gold gloves alone make him an all star. Yes I know that the award doesn’t really mean much at most positions, but catchers earn gg’s
chesteraarthur
I don’t think anyone is arguing that he has not been an all star.
Fanofthebestteam
No where near??? come on man please know something next time
Lanidrac
WAR doesn’t include pitch framing, plus using WAR to judge defense-first players in general isn’t very accurate, since there still aren’t any really good defensive metrics to use in it.
baines03
You’re right about WAR but WARP does take into account framing and while it definitely improves Molina’s standing he’s still not Hall-worthy. Still has time though…
phillies012tg
I think it’s going to take a lot year or two but in my mind he’s a Hall of fame catcher
coachbrad
It’s for the right length of time and the numbers won’t hurt the franchise, but that’s a huge amount of money to give to someone who projects to be average or worse on both sides of the ball.
Lanidrac
Since when? Despite his age, he’s still well above-average on both sides of the ball, and he’ll likely be average at worst defensively by the end of the deal.
moe 3
The cardinals can afford it and if anybody is worth that much $ Molina is He is pitching coach , manager ,big brother and one of the biggest fan favorites of all time
gemrookie
So, he gets more than the 1 year/$15 mil. option they coulda given Molina next year at 35? No, let’s pay him $17 mil. when he’s 38 and not behind the plate! I understand why the Yankees had to give Jeter the respect of overpaying him the last few years of his career for services rendered. But sorry, Molina ain’t no Jeter. Bottom line!
joshb600
It was a mutual option. Not a club option.
callmemabry
For the Cardinals franchise, Molina is very much like Jeter.
STLCards33
He’s our jeter for sure. Sorry man but you’re wrong
Wainofan
To the Cardinals he is exactly Derek Jeter. If cards had captains, he’d have been ours for 10 years and running…
Lanidrac
6 years and running, as it would’ve been Pujols before then.
astrostl
Pujols was clearly the biggest star on the team, but the “captain” was always Yadi during their shared era.
Michael Macaulay-Birks
The only thing comparable in that statement is the money, Molina has been a top three catcher his entire career, there was never a point in Derek Jeter’s career that he was the best shortstop in the league, hell he wasn’t even the best shortstop on his team in the early 2000’s’s
chesteraarthur
This is just blatantly false You know you can look these things up, right? fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7007&posit…
here are the rest of the catchers from 2006 fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat…
coachbrad
On that list he’s barely a top three Molina.
JFactor
Mauer has caught half the innings as Yadi, and only R Martin and McCann are in the same vicinity in innings caught.
gemrookie
And now, Carson Kelly is assured of not being the next Sanchez.
chesteraarthur
That was already assured
joshb600
“The next Sanchez”….. Lol the guys got like half a year of MLB service time lol.
soxx44
Maybe Jon Heyman is on to something when he mentions the Cardinals as sleepers for Jose Quintana. Now that Yadier Molina is extended, Carson Kelly could be part of a package going to the White Sox.
A package of Kelly, Delvin Perez, Harrison Bader and Dakota Hudson might interest Rick Hahn. .
Outlaws12
Kelly. Perez, and Darth Bader. No chance
STLCards33
God no.
Whyamihere
That seems pretty light compared to the Tucker/Martes/Musgrove package they wanted.
Priggs89
It is. But I can see Kelly holding much more trade value than his prospect rankings suggest (although I think he’s overhyped on MLB.com). I know the Sox still believe Collins can develop into a full-time catcher, but I’m sure they’d love to have another highly touted option (especially one that’s great on D, since Collins’ bat looks like it can play at DH or 1B if needed).
teufelshunde4
Please lay off the bath salts
redsfanman
A ton of money locked up in an aging player, blocking a highly regarded and inexpensive replacement in Carson Kelly? As someone who dislikes the Cardinals I’m thrilled. The deal does pay Molina back for the years he was underpaid, but I thought the point of the deal was the next three years. They’re paying him for what he was, rather than what he likely will be.
If only they could use that money to address a need, instead they’ll need to trade Carson Kelly for whatever that need is.
conan
At least they’ll be paying someone who’s on the roster. How much are the Reds paying Phillips to play for Atlanta?
themed1
How much are the cubs paying Heyward? Yadi sure fire first ballot Hall of Famer! Heyward sure fire albatross! Who gets how much?
jdgoat
He’s not going to ba a first ballot hall of gamer lol. Maybe in his fifth year, but definitely not first
Wainofan
Who cares when, fact is hes HOF and entire career as Redbird. Very rare that happens anymore.
gobsteiner
Um, what planet are you from?? Posey is far and away the best catcher in the game on both defense and offense, and it’s not even close
Priggs89
While I’d personally take Posey #1 in a catcher draft, he is not “far and away” the best catcher in the game on both defense and offense.
callmemabry
I’m a Cards fan, but agree. Although this was not always true on defense, it is now.
Priggs89
Good for him
gobsteiner
What are you on. Posey is the best on both offense and defense and it’s not close
callmemabry
This seems like a sentimental sign rather than a good business deal for the Cards. Unusual move for them. But, as a fan, it would have pained me to see Yadi leave.
gobsteiner
Um, are you high? Posey is the best on both defense and offense and it’s not close
callmemabry
Yeah we heard you the first two times.
Outlaws12
Gobsteiner is stoned
Priggs89
If that were the case, I would assume both his offensive and defensive statistics would blow everyone else’s out of the water… They don’t.
While I’ll happily admit that defensive statistics are far from perfect, if he were THAT much better than everyone else like you claim, I’d be willing to bet the stats would show it, no matter how flawed they may be. Again, they don’t.
As I said before, I would take him as my catcher any day, but to be considered “far and away the best,” you need to be putting up some ridiculous numbers compared to your peers. While he’s at or near the top every year offensively and defensively, he’s not demolishing everybody in sight.
TradeAcuna
Just add this to the list as to why the Cards will be a bad team the next 3-4 years!
themed1
Haven’t been a bad team for the last 30 years. Add that to your list.
chesteraarthur
Well that’s just a lie.
stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/history/year_by_year…
Lanidrac
They’ve had a great run, but 30 years, no. The 1990 season alone blows your claim out of the water.
Wainofan
Perhaps, but I’d take our 30 years over just about any other teams, save the Yankees. How many times did the Cubs finish last place in past 30? Cards are 0. Cards have been competitive and fighting for playoff spot till the end every year for past 30 years except a handful. Past 20 we’ve been even better. I love how the Cubs win one time and suddenly that erases the history of failures they’ve had and years of success birds have had. Whatever.
themed1
Ok the last 25 years. Any other organizations come close to year in year out continued success. They have contended every year.
chesteraarthur
not the argument that was made.
chesteraarthur
So you are saying that 62 and 53 wins are a success?
hojostache
Sure…in the NBA.
JFactor
Holy cow, did you just cite the two strike shortened season win totals? That year the cards won 53, the Cubs won 49.
The cards have been great for about 20 years steady, and even better for a solid 100 years running. A Cubs fan should know better than to enter a historical argument with a Cards fan, it won’t bode well.
SupremeZeus
Nice catnip for the nostalgic redbird fans. Taking emotion out and projecting forward, don’t think he will produce anywhere near $55M-$65M worth of value during the k. I expect him to hit the DL multiple times going forward. Father time is undefeated.
hojostache
I agree 100%. That said, I agree with whomever mentioned Jeter because Molina is one of the biggest names for their org and he should be able to finish his career on his terms. It’s an overpay, but if I were a Cards fan I’d FAAAAR overpay Molina a bit than make an overpay to some random FA who has never played for my team. As for Kelley…that’s tough. If Molina is on board with mentoring, that’s a hell of a handoff to have for Kelley.
usafcop
18 million per year for 35 year old catcher and we wonder why their is a deficit….their are homeless camps everywhere and theft and looting…..we are 10 years away from the world looking like “the book of Eli” or “the road”…..and we have a catcher way past his prime signing for 18 million per year…..just wow
EndinStealth
Just what the thread needed a conspiracy nut.
usafcop
Why there is a deficit*
redbeard
From strictly an on field perspective, the odds of him living up to the dollar figure is slim. I think he can still be an above average catcher for the next three years. However, I believe this is also a PR move by ownership/management. Now that there cannot be “personal services” added as part of the contract like Pujols received. They may have felt obligated to just pay more. He will be this generations Ozzie, and may very well end up as the next Cardinal to have a statue in front of the stadium. It looks like this will make sure he will forever be known as a Cardinal only.
Wainofan
Yes there will definitely be a statue and retire his # and be Cards HOF and be in Cooperstown
Lanidrac
Ozzie was also overpaid to stay in St. Louis for the twilight years of his career. He had one more great year (1993) after signing his massive deal before fading into the sunset over the last three years of his career (and being platooned his final year), and the same thing could very well happen with Yadi.
Was it worth it, though? Most fans would say, “yes.”
Polish Hammer
Ozzie was special at that time because he was making acrobatic plays, the same type of plays we now see on the nightly hilites all over baseball. Overpaid and overrated IMO.
southi
Carson Kelly just became a very nice potential trade chip for the Cardinals.
Wainofan
It would have been far worse for FO if yadi would’ve went elsewhere than their “overpay” and backlash from fans would’ve been huge. It’s rare and very cool as fan to have player finish entire career with same team. I wonder who on the Cubs will be able to do that? Bryant? Maybe but will cost a kings ransom when time comes. Who else? Baez? Schwarber? Doubt it.
themed1
Bryant I doubt. The cubs already screwed him out of a year of free agent eligibility. Sure he won’t forget that.
Mikel Grady
Cubs just gave him a bonus they didnt have to give him. He makes extra everytime they win World Series as well
themed1
Uh they average one World Series win once every 100 years. Hope he isn’t planning on that bonus anytime soon. HEHEHE
Mikel Grady
With kris Bryant they average one World Series every other year. Hehehe
partylikeits2005
While the odds say probably no one, the Cubs could keep anyone they want for however long they want right now. That’s not a team that’s going to be financially strapped anytime soon – the money will be there for Bryant when the time comes.
stl_cards16 2
This is simply not true. While I do believe they will extend Bryant, they’re not going to be able to pay everyone. This is a business and the Cubs will have a budget just like every other team.
stljeffries
No way!! Cards are very high on those guys.
T_Ryan
Yadi will be a manager one day and hopefully for the cards. He is a manager on the field as well as a pitching coach. The money is worth it.
EndinStealth
He’s already a better manager than Matheny.
rrieders
There are certain players who provide value in ways that an all-inclusive metric like WAR can never hope to quantify and, as a result, you’re best just ignoring the contract and enjoying a player’s greatness.
Yadier Molina is one of them.
bfolls
Claiming there are other overpaid players doesn’t mean this deal makes sense
Lanidrac
Yadi doesn’t actually need to hit home runs to be an above-average hitter. Did you miss that .360 OBP he posted last year? His mediocre walk rate is balanced by his high batting averages and low K rate (personally, I’d rather have a guy like that than someone who walks a lot but hits for a mediocre average, as hits are better than walks most of the time). Meanwhile, all the doubles he hits keep his slugging rates from falling too far.
teufelshunde4
Just stop… lol
jdgoat
Depends on the player. Yadi is actually a guy who shows having a high average doesn’t make you an amazing batter. Its easily the most overrated stat in the game
usafcop
At the age he will be playing during this ludicrous contract….and the skills he has left they should have just went with Kelly at league minimum as he will put up similar numbers if not this year then next year as Molina is done being a star catcher….plus they save 18 million….all these guys are overpaid….
Dookie Howser, MD
Fangraphs did a great article yesterday on aging catchers and how the age drop off was dramatically skewed during the PED era. Since then it is levelled off similar to other positions. Worth a read if anybody is interested
fangraphs.com/blogs/is-the-clock-running-out-on-ya…
teufelshunde4
One thing Mo,in a has going for him is that 2 brothers played well into their late 30s. Yadi’s injuries have been to thumb, not a knee or back or throwing arm. Yadi’s conditioning has improved as he has aged. 34yr Yadi is slimmer then 29 yr old Yadi. Will help with knee & back wear.
Father time will win, but we don’t know when.
teufelshunde4
One thing Molina has going for him is that 2 brothers played well into their late 30s. Yadi’s injuries have been to thumb, not a knee or back or throwing arm. Yadi’s conditioning has improved as he has aged. 34yr Yadi is slimmer then 29 yr old Yadi. Will help with knee & back wear.
Father time will win, but we don’t know when.
Polish Hammer
And those two brothers were lazy slobs, especially Jose, who would never have been seen leaving a gym or caught working out.
Cardinals17
Come on Yadi!!! Prove these skeptics wrong!!! Grab your gold gloves. These skeptic people have no clue how thumb ligaments surgery affects griping a bat or a ball or even throwing and catching!!! I’ve had it in my throwing hand before!!! I have no idea how well he did recovering. However, once the successful surgery is properly rehabbed, you hand is stronger than before!! Your wrist don’t lock when you’re throwing or hitting when the thumbs heal!! Therefore, to all of you…..”What has Yadi done for us lately people”….. I think you’ll eat your words. And remember, Kelly is just a light hitting PROSPECT right now. Yadi is proven, and the Cardinals pitching staff has complete confidence in his pitch calling !!! He studies and knows the opposing hitters weakness and what to throw to help get them out. That mental aspect WON’T SLIP during this new contract!!!!!
coachbrad
!!! doesn’t make your argument stronger.
chesteraarthur
I wish i could give this comment more than a single ^
Cardinals17
The Cardinals certainly have more trading power now that they extended Yadi!!!!!
CNichols
I love Yadi and I’m glad he got paid, but this is a classic example of a team paying for past performance instead of paying for future performance. He’s probably good for 2 WAR this year and his best days are behind him. I have to imagine its going to hurt when they’re paying him ~$20 mil in his age 38 season.
fredhuebner
“class” organizations don’t hack other teams data bases and CHEAT.
EndinStealth
Organizations don’t, individuals do.
callmemabry
Leave the Kremlin alone
bronyaur
Molina has been and is a very good player. HoF? Hardly – the numbers of any type simply do not support his being among the 16 best catchers to have ever played the game, even with those mythical intangibles that folklore loves to tout, but quants know are thoroughly overweighted.
Numbers absolutely don’t capture everything, but some are highly indicative and do in fact reflect intangibles. For example, Molina never won an MVP, and his MVP share is 236th of all players all time. This should be a lot higher for someone expected to join the pantheon.
In general, it seems pretty hard to make the case for him as a HoF offensively. He’s 26th all-time in WAR, and his JAWS ranking is 29th among catchers – hell, even Russell Martin has a higher JAWS than Molina. In fact, not a single similar player as listed on Molina’s BBREF page, either at any given age, through any given age, or across the entire career, is in the HoF. Not. One. His most similar career is Thurman Munson who never got more than 10% of HoF votes except in his first year of eligibility (15.5%), and of course, Munson had the tragic early demise characteristic working in his favor for the voters. His most similar through age 33 is AJ Pierzzynski, and who except the most earnest yet misguided White Sox fan or Michael Barrett hater would try to claim AJ is a HoFer?
Defensively, Molina 41st all time in defensive WAR for a catcher – again, not that this stat is everything, but it would be a lot higher if he were truly one of the all time greats. He is 70th all time in assists as a catcher, and 184 all time in career caught stealing % for a catcher. It’s just not enough to be with Bench, Carter, I-Rod, Fisk, Piazza, Berra, Dickey and the rest.
No matter how great of a leader he is, or how good he is at framing pitches, it seems hard for a unbiased, non-Card fan to make the HoF case.
More to the point here, the Cards are pretty obviously overpaying for Molina vis-a-vis his worth over the next three years, but it might be justified on PR grounds, at least to a degree. No way any other team would come even remotely close to that offer. Cards should have asked him, and maybe did ask him, to establish his worth in the market, and then offered him a tad more. But it’s their money, they can waste it as they see fit.
kevin
themed1
Molina first ballot Hall if Famer. Book it!
rocky7
Only happens if the only HOF voters all come from St. Louis.
Read bronyaur’s comment above….very accurate and to the point.
themed1
Molina first ballot Hall of Famer! Glad these haters here have no clue and no say in it!
rocky7
Nice work bronyaur…..well researched, unbiased, and comprehensive.
callmemabry
Good points. Ted Simmons and Thurman Munson got jobbed, imo. Hope the veteran committee gets them. Surprised at how far down the list Campanella is; at how high Mauer is; and that Posey’s WAR/7 isn’t higher (this must still be rising for him).
gamemusic3 2
lol ego
contract intended specifically to top Posey
MooseMichaels
Here’s the deal. Carson isn’t going anywhere. Molina can switch to first and Carp can go back to third.
stl_cards16 2
Yadi doesn’t have the bat to play 1B. Kelly still doesn’t need to be traded, he’s only 22. But Yadi should never be playing 1B.
timyanks
why do corner players in infield and outfield always need a power bat?
kbarr888
Maybe…..Because the “guys in the middle” are typically smaller, faster guys….who often hit for average and steal bases to earn their keep. Also, the corner players generally tend to be less than stellar defensive players (certainly not all of them), and they need to “earn their keep” with the bat.
chesteraarthur
you don’t need a power bat, you need a productive bat to play 1b because it is so low on a defensive spectrum. The idea that corner players need a power bat died like 10 years ago.
Polish Hammer
Good deal, a win-win.
themed1
Agreed great for St Louis and great for baseball.
lesterdnightfly
Big overpay. For St. Louis’s FO and ownership, this was uncharacteristically based on sentiment and past success. Must have feared loss of fan support if they didn’t keep this declining “franchise icon”.
calikid13
Agreed.
calikid13
Terrible extension. If you have the top Catching prospect in the league, you move on. That $20MM/AAV would have been better spent elsewhere.
cxcx
Carson Kelly is a consensus top 100 prospect, not a consensus top 10 prospect. Andrew Susac, Kevin Plawecki…have been seeing a lot of top 100 catching prospects doing a whole lot of nothing lately.
chesteraarthur
He’s not even the best catcher unless you listen to mlb.com for some reason. On pretty much every other site and by average ranking mejia and/or alfaro are rated as better catching prospects.
cxcx
Something no one has mentioned- I bet he used Mike Leake’s contract as as much of a baseline as Posey’s. Like, “How do you expect me to sign on to stay here for less money than Mike Leake?” Not something there’s really a retort for…
Tigersin2020
The Molina Empire strikes gold
timyanks
or just stereotyped
Mr Pike
The hypocrisy here is mind blowing. Consider all the scorn heaped on the Tigers for signing Victor Martinez through age 39 at $17M per year. And, he was a DH, first baseman, catcher coming off an MVP year. Cardinals sign a catcher through age 38 and yeah, that’s fine. I just want some consistency here. Personally, I don’t have a problem with either signing.
JFactor
Some information regarding Molina
Chester has shared the fWAR rankings, which I think we can all agree that Yadier isn’t the same hitter that Posey and Mauer are/were.
He is similar offensively to Martin, who is also the most comparable to Molina defensively, though he is well short there.
WAR really undervalues catchers, we know that. The only real defensive value it measures is caught stealing rates and assists. We know there is a ton more to catching than that. So here are some additional defensive numbers for Molina that you may not know.
Career pickoffs
Molina – 55
Martin – 22
Mauer – 2
Posey – 5
Since 2004, Molina has had a grand total of 724 stolen base attempts against him in 13,254 innings, or one attempt every 18.3 innings.
McCann has had 1059 attempts against him in 11,508 innings. One every 10.9 innings.
Posey has had 549 attempts against and caught 5976 innings (yes, less than half as many innings as Molina). Which is one attempt every 10.9 innings.
Martin has had 1043 stolen base attempts against, in 11,644 innings. Which is one every 11.1 innings.
Mauer has had 545 stolen base attempts in 7883 innings. Which is one every 14.5 innings played.
Nobody is more afraid to run on a catcher than they are to run on Molina. No other catcher in baseball even comes close to the suppression of the running game.
Mauer, who is leading in the WAR category, hasn’t been a catcher for years, and has played half as many innings as Molina there. He is ahead by 12-15 WAR depending which measure you want to value. But let’s not pretend he has been doing all of his production as a catcher. 56% of the innings he has been involved in on the field (includes time as DH) has been at the catcher position. But he’s less than 50% ahead in total WAR.
cERA vs backups. This one took awhile to calculate because I had to manually calculate it.
Molina – 3.61
Backups – 4.21
Difference +0.60
Martin – 3.67
Backups – 3.65
Difference -0.02
Mauer – 4.05
Backups – 4.48
Difference – +.43
Posey – 3.50
Backups – 3.69
Difference – +0.19
Assists to other bases (doesn’t include dropped third strikes)
Molina – 223 – One every 59.43 innings (also the most assists to second and third base)
Martin – 197 – One every 59.11 innings
Mauer – 55 (has never thrown a player out at second or third for an assist) – One every 143.33 innings
Posey – 98 – One every 60.99 innings
This is why Molina has been the greatest catcher in baseball since Pudge.
If you just want to value fWAR, and pretend like there isn’t more to catching than hitting and throwing out base runners, be my guest.
And I didn’t get into frame rates, because that’s even more time than I feel like spending on this.