If there was any doubt remaining that the Dodgers' new ownership group would drastically alter the franchise, it has now been completely eliminated. The Dodgers and Red Sox have officially completed a massive nine-player blockbuster trade that sends Josh Beckett, Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, and Nick Punto to Los Angeles for James Loney and four prospects.
The four prospects are right-hander Allen Webster, infielder Ivan De Jesus, outfielder/first baseman Jerry Sands, and right-hander Rubby De La Rosa. The Red Sox will pay just $12MM of the over $270MM owed to Beckett, Crawford, Gonzalez, and Punto, so their savings are considerable. Adding the four new players represents a substantial financial commitment by the Dodgers:
- Gonzalez will earn $21MM per season through 2016 and obtain a raise to $21.5MM for 2017-18. The total exceeds $130MM when accounting for the remainder his 2012 salary.
- Crawford will earn $20MM in 2013, $20.25MM in 2014, $20.5MM in 2015, $20.75MM in 2016 and $21MM in 2017.
- Beckett will earn $15.75MM per season through 2014.
- Punto earns $1.5MM per season through 2013.
With this trade as well as the previous acquisitions of Hanley Ramirez, Randy Choate, Brandon League, Shane Victorino, and Joe Blanton, the Dodgers have absorbed more than $300MM in future payroll obligations in the last month or so. As Jeff Euston of Cot's Baseball Contracts notes (on Twitter), the club now has a $193.75MM in contract obligations for next season, $133.6MM for 2014, $90MM for 2015, $88.65MM for 2015, and another $90MM for 2016. The Red Sox, on the other hand, are now on the hook for just $45.6MM in 2013, $34.4MM in 2014, $12.75MM in 2015, and $2.45MM in 2016 (Twitter link).
Both Beckett (10-and-5 rights) and Crawford (limited no-trade clause) had to approve the deal, and Buster Olney of ESPN reports (on Twitter) that neither player asked for any kind of compensation to do so. The Dodgers were not included in Gonzalez's limited no-trade clause. Los Angeles claimed both Gonzalez and Beckett off trade waivers yesterday, plus Punto and Crawford both cleared earlier this month. Bill Shaikin of The Los Angeles Times reports (on Twitter) that the Blue Jays are believed to have claimed De La Rosa off waivers, but he was pulled back and will technically be included in the deal as a player to be named later.
The Dodgers, who currently sit three games back of the Giants in the NL West race, are adding an impact left-handed bat to pair with the right-handed Matt Kemp in Gonzalez. The Southern California native spent the first five full seasons of his career a little further south with the Padres, so he's certainly familiar with the division. Gonzalez, 30, is hitting .300/.343/.469 with 15 homers in what is generally considered to be a down year compared to his career average of .294/.372/.509 and 30 or so homers annually. Dodgers' first basemen have hit just .244/.289/.357 this season, so even down year Gonzalez represents an enormous upgrade.
Beckett, 32, has pitched to a 5.23 ERA in 21 starts and 127 1/3 innings this season while battling thumb and back issues. His strikeout rate (6.6 K/9) is a career-low and PitchFX shows that his velocity has tapered off into the low-90s. Moving into the easier league and a more pitcher-friendly ballpark should help his numbers, and Beckett gives Los Angeles a pitcher with a proven playoff track record. Current Dodgers' starters have combined for just 11 career playoff starts, six by Blanton. Beckett alone has 13 playoff starts and a World Series MVP to his credit.
Crawford, 31, had Tommy John surgery two days ago and will miss the rest of the season. He hit just .260/.292/.419 with 14 homers and 23 steals in 161 disappointing games with the Red Sox after averaging .299/.340/.448 with 13 homers and 50 steals in eight full seasons with the Rays. Crawford is expected to be able to return to action early next season, meaning Victorino is likely to be allowed to leave as a free agent.
The Dodgers recently lost Jerry Hairston Jr. to a hip injury for the remainder of the season, so the 34-year-old Punto gives them some protection and added depth on the infield. He's hit just .200/.301/.272 with five steals in 148 plate appearances for Boston this year while playing all four infield positions. He's a year removed from a .278/.388/.421 line as a part-time player with the Cardinals.
Loney, 28, has hit just .254/.302/.344 with four homers in 359 plate appearances this season and will become a free agent this winter. He figures to serve as a stopgap first baseman for the Red Sox for the next six weeks or so.
Webster, 22, has pitched to a 3.55 ERA in 121 2/3 innings for the Dodgers' Double-A affiliate this season. The 25-year-old De Jesus has been up and down between Triple-A and the big leagues in recent years, hitting .301/.354/.416 in over 1,200 minor league plate appearances since 2010. Sands, 24, has been also been up and down these last two years. He owns a career .291/.363/.557 line nearly 900 Triple-A plate appearances. De La Rosa, 23, just returned from Tommy John surgery and pitched to a 3.71 ERA in ten starts and three relief appearances for Los Angeles last season. Click here for a more in-depth look at the prospects headed to Boston later today.
A trade of this magnitude had many helping hands along the way, though Gordon Edes of ESPN Boston first reported that the two sides were discussing this massive deal. Check out this post for all of the pre-completion rumors and reports. Michael Silverman of The Boston Herald and an Roche of WBZ (on Twitter) first reported completion of the trade while Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com and Dylan Hernandez of The Los Angeles Times added details (Twitter links). Photo courtesy of US Presswire.
So another 86 years to win??…
Not with Daddy Cherington running the helm. Im cleaning house and starting over. This is going to be a great offseason, you can bank on it!
*EDIT* No love for Daddy Cherington?
Wow were you wrong…only took 14 months
I come from 8 years in the future, the year 2020, to warn everyone of three things:
1) In next year’s 2013 draft, there’s a kid named Bellinger. Any team not named Dodgers would be wise to grab him prior to the 124th overall pick.
2) Stay away from next year’s Boston Marathon.
3) Invest right now in Tesla while the share price is $30.
With 8 years of future knowledge you could become the first trillionaire, and draft an entire team of all-stars.
With future knowledge I never would have trade Anthony Rizzo to SD for Adrian Gonzalez, and used the $143 million from Gonzalez to resign Adrian Beltre ($96 million six years to Rangers).
This future thing is fun. I would love to be a time traveler….
Still surprised this happened so quickly. However I think this looks like a pretty good deal for both sides. Dodgers get a huge upgrade at first and I think Beckett will respond well to the change of scenery and to National League hitters. The Red Sox get a chance to rebuild in a new direction and get a couple of nice prospects along with dropping $260M in salary.
The Dodgers manage to solidify themselves as contenders for a a couple years. But is this the way you want to spend $260 million and four prospects?
Hard to say the Red Sox lost without also noting how much money they saved on potential free agents like Greinke or potentially Hamilton.
goodbye Crawford, Beckett,Punto, Gonzalez I will only miss Gonzalez out of this group hopefully this frees up money for top pitcher somewhere down the line.
I didn’t like the fact that A-Gon left, but if we had to trade A-Gon to see everyone else go, I’m okay with it.
With all the drama that’s been going on in Boston the past 2 years, do you believe any top of the line FA is going to want to sign there?
Exactly… This is something that has been mentioned about by several people on MLB Network and the Red Sox’s unofficial TV station (and I am not talking about NESN, I am talking about ESPN).. When they mention t about the Red Sox you know it is bad
Yes, money talks, and Boston is always trying to put their team in the best position to compete. Plus, most of the supposed “drama” just left in this trade.
now that they are finally free of a lot of the players that were holding them down and have lots of money freed up…Id say their chances in free agency are a lot better now. One of the other perks of this deal. This trade is a cataclysmic event that will hopefully prove to be beneficial for both teams. Most of all, it allows the Red Sox to climb out of the muck and start fresh. If I were a free agent I would see that as a positive. They need to spend wisely though. Be patient and do your homework Ben.
Wish they had keep Beltre…..never traded for Gonzalez…..and kept Anthony Rizzo……hindsight is great
Not soon enough. Think Blue!
I would’ve said the Sox had gotten the better of the trade even if they didn’t receive anybody in return, by shedding $260m. Epic win for Ben Cherington.
It really is a deal that makes sense for both sides.
Certainly, I’m betting it has something to do with the dodgers tv deal that is coming up within the next 2 years. There is really not any good way to improve the team this offseason with hamels signed up, and they need to increase ratings before then.
Compared to other free agent deals I don’t think that the agon/Beckett deals will be that bad for the dodgers. The cc contract is a big overpay, but He still should be a valuable player next year.
addition by subtraction
Yes I thought the Crawford contract, with the possible exception of the ARod contract, is the worst contract in baseball history. Just to be able to get rid of that thing, even for nothing, is a major coup. First good deal Cherington’s done, and it’s a really really really good one.
This deal kind of makes sense for the Dodgers except by doing this they’ve essentially handcuffed themselves for the next five years
Although the sox overpayed for Crawford, there is no way it is the worst (or even second worst) in the history of the game
Sure if you think a player making 20M a year, who can’t run, hit (well), or throw is great deal then I have some beachfront property in Oklahoma for you, and I’ll even throw in Arod’s contract while I’m at it
Look at his career stats, and tell me which part of those show he can’t hit or run… He has been injured throughout his two seasons in Boston. Is he a $20 million per year player? Not at all. But I would definitely take him over Wells or Zito (to use the examples named above).
If Crawford’s health makes him a shadow of himself, I would rather have Wells. At least there’s some production there rather than zero.
That’s silly, Crawford can come back healthy and be a good player, Wells doesn’t have health as an excuse, he’s just plain lousy.
Zito was a Cy Young before. Past stats are moot once you’re on the decline. Unless you’re 2011 Lance Berkman.
There’s no evidence that he’s on the decline though, that’s the point. He had a career year two years ago, had a terrible year last year, and was injured this year; there is no trend to suggest anything about the direction his career is heading.
I have said for awhile CC is overpaid. But he still should be able to be a well above average leftfielder.
Wells has SMALLER CONTRACT. You have to factor in that Crawford is getting paid like 2 to 3 times (cumulative, not per year) more than any of these guys except Zito
Wells is paid $25M per year, and is a considerably worse player.
You obviously haven’t watched any Red Sox games then…lucky you
I watch every Red Sox game.
Vernon Wells has been worth -.9 bWAR and .3 fWAR the past two years. Crawford has been worth .3 bWAR and .6 fWAR. Wells is hurting the team, Crawford hasn’t been much better, but he’s been better.
Career stats don’t apply. When he put them up, Crawford was healthy. At this point it’s been 2 years and he can’t get healthy. IMO even if he recovers from his surgeries unfortunately it doesn’t seem (at least to me) as if he’ll ever be the player he once was.
Vernon Wells/Zito contracts were shorter duration, less money, and/or still had somewhat functioning players behind them (or to put it differently, at least those players could stay on the field). The Crawford deal has the potential, if he comes off the field permanently for health reasons, to be the worst deal of all time. Thus far the Sox have paid 40M in his first 2 seasons and received 1/2 WAR.
Barry Zito, Vernon Wells, Alex Rios…they come to mind.
Rios’ contract was 7 years 70 million…no way 10 mil per year for a guy who has been 3.5-4 war two out of four years can be up there with some other awful contracts. I would think more alone the lines of Mike Hampton or perhaps if you want one more comparable to the Rios that is actually terrible awful, Jason Bay
How about Mike Hampton…he had the first $100million contract only I think to be released before his contract expired and I bet almost nobody remembers that name
Wasn’t Kevin Brown the first $100M contract?
I think all those contracts are remarkably fair. Expecting to be a Dodger soon.
Regards,
John Lackey
Andruw Jones anyone?
Even the Arod contract probably won’t end up being the worse. Is he EXTREMELY overpaid? Yes. Will he be worth the money left? No. However, he has still been a productive hitter and even if he’s a .280/.350/.430 guy with 20-25 hrs he would still be productive.
Carl Crawford is too early into his deal to say it’s one of the worst. It’s guys like Aaron Rowand w/ a 5/$60 deal and 5 WAR to show for it is a PERFECT example of one of the worst deals ever.
280/350/430 is not productive – it’s slightly above replacement level. The Yankees will be paying this guy well into his 40s to stink it up
An almost 800 OPS is way above replacement level. You’re crazy.
I know the money isn’t nearly as high as those mentioned, but what about Chone Figgins? I haven’t looked anything up, but even without looking, he has to be one of the least valuable players in either league with any kind of substantial contract.
EDIT: So I actually looked some stuff up, and yes, he’s the “leader” for worst WAR over the past 2 seasons with -2.2. He’s so bad that I had to remove minimum plate appearances just to see where he placed, since they never play him.
The M’s are paying him $36 million over 4 years… for NEGATIVE WAR. This certainly has to be in the discussion for worst contract in baseball.
U forgot albert to the angels deal. when he is 40, this deal will look even worse. and the redsoxs got the worst of crawfords deal. if he comes back in 2013 and is fine, then its an ok contract for the dodgers.
It’s one thing to dump so much cash in bad contracts (not Gonzo’s), but to get prospects in return is amazing. Good job Ben. PLEASE SPEND WISELY.
Commissioners office to question this? Of course not. This whole situation reeks. Ugly days again for MLB. Talk about payroll imbalance. Talent debate aside the financials are a total joke.
uhhhh, how can you be upset when it’s two large-market teams?
Four big-leaguers, three of whom are former All-Stars, for one decent infielder and a bagful of prospects? The Red Sox got hosed.
Over the last 2 seasons fans of other teams have said the Red Sox seriously overpaid for Crawford, said Beckett was done for and laughed about the fried chicken and beer debaucle, and said Gonzalez’s power loss was permanent.
So why when they leave the Sox are they suddenly remembered as 3 former all stars? Personally I’ll miss Gonzalez, but getting rid of Beckett and Crawford’s contracts as well as getting prospects back… I’d say that’s anything but getting “hosed.”
This
The reason that fans of other teams remember them as former all-stars is because they are. More importantly is the fact that when the Red Sox acquired them, the majority of RS fans went absolutely delirious. Think back to the Winter of ’11 when AGon and Crawford came on board. The majority of Sox fans were touting how Crawford and Agon were coming into their prime. Many were plastering the boards with their metrics and stats and proclaiming a championship in January. Lest you forget how Theo was the genius for pulling off the Agon trade and then signing him after the payroll rosters were announced, thereby avoiding the Luxury Tax. The Sox were supposed to great for years to come!
Now after little more than a season & half and after the disappointments with both the players, the very same majority of Sox fans are revising history. The spin seems to be that with prospects and the money to invest in FA, the Red Sox can re-tool the team and it will work out. I’m skeptical that will work so easily. I mean weren’t the Crawford and Agon signings the answers in the first place? As a fan of another team, that’s how I see it.
the gonzalez trade was still brilliant and he still is great. i don’t think the majority of sox fans (though i don’t know, i hate to be associated with them) have a diminished view of gonzalez or are happy to be rid of him. trading him for prospects was a means to the end of moving crawford – whose contract was considered a necessary evil from the beginning – and beckett – who i like, but no one else does
there’s always going to be spin and there’s always going to be a large contingent of boston fans saying ridiculous things. but there’s a solid, objective case to be made here that this trade can represent genuine progress if the money saved is spent effectively
I think the Red Sox gave up way too soon on Agon and Crawford, and I realize it’s easy for me to say that, as it’s not my money, Crawford’s getting. I can understand the Beckett move, he looks as if he’s been whipped mentally from the media and fan onslaught. He should better in the NL. this whole trade seems take the Sox back two years and having to re-tool with a lot of ‘ifs’ and ‘maybe’s ‘
and i think they gave up too soon on beckett. i have nothing bad to say about any of the three players traded and i fully expect them to play to their potential in LA
put it this way, unless the money saved is wisely spent, this move is probably a mistake, as you describe. strangely, this trade won’t really be over until the spring
I don’t think it was so much “giving up” on either of them (particularly Gonzalez, who has been great overall in Boston), but more trying to start over and build the team they want, and those contracts had to go to be able to do it.
“this trade can represent genuine progress if the money saved is spent effectively” im just ‘notsureif’ if it can. extremely intersting scenario, though. (and something the Phillies should be paying close attention to!)
That “bag full of prospects” includes two potential top of the rotation pitchers, and this clears out over $50M dollars, per year, for them to spend (on top of the ~$30M they already had coming off the books after this year).
Especially since that infielder is a FA at the end of the season…
dude, the propspects and Loney were just the icing on the cake. Lets focus on the fact that the Sox just dumped more salary than most teams have for there entire payroll, just hope they spend it better than I spend my money, I need more willpower
at this point, I dont believe it until I see them in different uniforms
I’m with you. It seems like something that Sox posters would propose on the board. Makes no sense for LAD ownership, unless they really don’t care about getting a return on their purchase of the Dodgers.
This deal doesn’t get done if Punto isn’t a part of it!
Love this.
Shaving Punto’s $9/hour salary is what got the deal done.
I like this trade for the Dodgers. They’re in a win now mode and Punto’s the man to make it happen
i love it when people said the trade wouldn’t happen. guess they’re wrong.
Dodgers got shafted in this deal. I cant believe they are paying all buy $12 million of the TOTAL salaries. They should have given up nothing for that and the redsox would have still done the trade. Crawford and Beckett both have negative trade value with those full salaries
The Red Sox absolutely should and would not have done the trade getting nothing in return. Given what it cost them to acquire Gonzalez, who is arguably one of the five best hitters in baseball, they weren’t going to let him go for free. If Crawford is healthy (which is what the Dodgers are banking on), he’s a top ten outfielder. Beckett in Dodger Stadium will be a great fit. Not sure how his jerkness will play out there, though. Even though LA is the second largest media market in the country, it’s not nearly the blood filled shark tank that is Boston.
Ok, I may be stating the obvious to some, but I think this is a fantastic deal for the Red Sox, if they are indeed dropping a huge amount of payroll, and gaining some quality prospects. In the long run, I think this helps the BoSox more than LAD.
I wonder if the money that the red sox are sending is to cover carl’s salary why he is out? Not that it matters just kinda hard to see the dodgers paying for a guy on the dl
Baseball’s Herschel Walker trade.
I’m not happy to see Agon go since the Sox have been drooling over him since 2007, but you can’t argue with the fact that they shedded more money than some teams have in there entire payroll. Beckett had to go and I wasnt fully convinced that Crawford was ever gona be the player that he was in Tampa while in a Boston uniform. Just wish we could of convinced the Dodgers to take Bobby V as well.
I still can’t believe this is real. Most interesting trade ever?
I’m hard pressed to think of other trades of this magnitude. Even adjusted for inflation, this has to be the biggest salary dump ever. Undoubtedly the most interesting waiver wire deal.
I can’t recall a blockbuster like this ever happening before. Absolutely astounding.
I feel like this year is full of the most interesting trades. I don’t remember last year having so many big trades
It’s Christmas morning! I got coal and I couldn’t be happier!!
Great deal but my only question is kemp done in of if Crawford gets back to old self after dl?
No, if someone moves out of the outfield it will be Ethier. But as of right now next year’s outfield looks like Crawford, Kemp, and Ethier.
Crawford isn’t back until 2013, and Victorino will be FA, so Crawford in LF, Kemp in CF, and Ethier in RF, so Kemp will still be in OF
They’re paying only $12 million, really good for Sox
And this is why baseball needs a hard cap. what the hell
wrong!
So it looks like there is a new bully in town. I guess the Dodgers are going to be Yankees West. The Dodgers should be able to dominate the NL West for a couple of years, but after that they will just be a team full of over priced vets who can’t put up the numbers to justofy their salaries. I’m not quite sure who Boston is going to spend all of this extra money on, but this has really changed the land scape of the AL East for years to come.
Hopefully they at least take a look at Hamilton but I think Victorino could be a fit for the right price.
I’d rather the sox management wait until they find a free agent that makes sense. Don’t just blow it all to appease the pink hats.
Or forget free agents all together and trade for players.
I agree. I been watching ur posts my friend 🙂
Forget Upton also.. lets try rebuilding and a few maybe.. A little lesser cost trades perhaps..
I can see our SP Anabel Sanchez if the Tigers offer him arbitration and Boston can somehow sneak into a protected pick. Right now they are at #11, need to lose a few more…
Lets forget about that sellout streak that is gonna’ be out the window anyway and have a bad season next year just rebuilding from within, maybe see if Ross will return, offer ortiz arbitration and see if he wants to hang around or leave and get another pick if he wants to go, but no 2 year deal for him.
Lets be careful for 1 season to see how all the prospects do.. Just 1 year to gauge everyone and by that time? A few will sprinkle onto the roster and several more will be really close if all goes well and then think of making a splash or 2.
I personally would be fine with another losing season if it really meant they were doing what was best for the team in the long run, but I don’t think most of Boston would be okay with it, and I don’t think the owners will let it happen (which kind of scares me).
this subject is going to be beaten to death over the next 6 months, but i don’t foresee a lost season in 2013 unless they sell off other major assets over the winter
they’re no longer [underperforming] juggernauts, but they’re still wild card contenders – especially if you anticipate an acquisition or two
I don’t see it either, but I wouldn’t mind it if it means they really are going “all in” on the drafting and development model.
I agree. And the prospects that are coming in, namely Webster and Sands, should be something to watch. Sands has hit 24 HRs and 100 RBIs this year alone. Last year he hit 35 and Webster is almost MLB ready he just needs a quick pit stop at AAA
This is how I feel. The Sox can still be competitive next season if they start being smart with their newfound payroll flexibility. I think we’ve learned not to go down the Theo path again.
learned to go back to theo’s original path, not the one he reverted two after 2 world series*
I’m right there with you. Well said. I hope Cherington has a plan in place to stick it to Theo for leaving him with that mess.
cherington learned most of what he knows from theo and was involved in every part of the “mess”
if they go back to player development, they’ll be going back to theo’s model
True. My theory was a fail. I’ll be the first to admit it.
I think that they will have to miss the next few postseasons. Aside from swisher alot of the other big free agents have big question marks, and will be way overpaid. I think that they will certainly regret trading agon. He is a very good player, and all of the elite 1b are locked up until after 2014. They may have to develop within, although I bet they regret dumping youkilis for nothing.
this is a win for the dodgers in my opinion. the “four prospects” are nothing special. Webster = 4th/5th starter in AL East. De la Rosa = bullpen. Sands= 4th OF. De Jesus= bench IF. Red Sox free salary, but wont they just spend it on FA’s in an always overpriced market? They need pitching and that’s going to be a problem for them goiing forward
It’s obvious after the ‘meeting’ with players, the Sox management has taken Bobby V’s side and has decided to implode the team. Apparently Lester and Ellsbury are also on waivers and could be claimed as well. Depending on what happens in the off season, this could be the start of a very long rebuild.
This could send the Red Sox back for a while. You are not going to find that kind of production at 1B, and they don’t have any real promising 1B prospects
this is where trading away lars anderson hurts :/
No it doesn’t. Lars wouldn’t be anything more than a place holder until they can find someone better; Sands can do the same exact thing.
Reports on Sands have been mixed, with some believing his bat will translate well to the majors and other thinking it is a mirage from the leagues he’s played in and that he’ll swing and miss too much, so depending on who ends up being right they could have a decent 1B prospect there (although certainly not one who will be up to Gonzalez’s level), and they have Shaw in AA who has put himself on a lot of peoples’ radars (again, he can’t be expected to be on Gonzalez’s level, but either one of these guys could be a good 1B and considerably cheaper than Gonzalez, and if the Red Sox use the money/roster flexibility to upgrade other positions it could easily make the team better overall, even with less production from 1B)
But nobody really close to the pipeline. And with all the drama that has gone on, I kind of question whether a FA would want to sign in Boston. I don’t imagine it would be on anyone’s #1 team on their list
Sands is ready now, and Shaw is in AA so there’s no reason to think he couldn’t see time in the majors at some point next year.
Also, I’m not overly concerned about signing free agents, I’d rather build a team through drafting and trades anyway. But I don’t think this will keep free agents from signing here, Boston has the money to spend (especially now), and is always legitimately trying to build a WS contender (whether it always works or not is a different story, but you can’t argue that they don’t try to do that).
From a BASEBALL standpoint, I don’t see how any Commissioner can approve this trade. 3 all-star caliber players and a bench player for 1 halfway decent 1b and 4 prospects? It just doesn’t even come close to a trade that’s in the “best interests of baseball”
Have you seen Beckett this year? He’s far from all-star caliber. Gonzalez power numbers have declined since coming to the Red-sox and going to a bigger ball park wont fix this. And Crawford’s contract is absolutely horrible and he’s mixing 8 months with tommy john. The Red-sox made out like bandits in this deal.
Selig isn’t looking out for the best interests of baseball.
Whats this push the dodgers payroll to? With teams trying to get under the lux tax sure looks like L.A. is not worried about it
How could the commish approve this? How can the Dodgers afford this??
Magic
Horrible trade for the Dodgers. The only great consistent player they get out of this is Adrian. Not a knock on Beckett or Crawford, but Beckett is inconsistent and Crawford just isn’t the same since he left Tampa. Not sure if it was leaving Tampa or just being in Boston.
And what makes it horrible is not the players they got, but they are paying 96% of the salary remaning
Yup! Aint it great! 😀 GO SOX!
Or at least the combination of taking on that much money, and the prospects they are sending.
I was at Citi Field last night (more so at a bar until the 6th inning lol) when this was all going on. I didn’t get a chance to read much about the prospects, but I figured they have to be “pretty, pretty, pretty good”
Webster and de la Rosa both have #2-3 starter potential (Hulet over at FG says the only thing keeping de la Rosa from a #1 ceiling is inconsistent command/control).
And some argue that Webster had recently passed Lee for Dodger’s #1 prospect (from BP’s transaction analysis: “With his stunningly good second half, Webster had eclipsed Zach Lee as the top pitching prospect in the Dodgers’ system, with some scouts upping his ceiling from a potential three to a potential two. With his velocity and high-quality secondary offering, it’s an understandable projection now that he seems to have harnessed his stuff.”)
Wow, what the heck are they thinking?
I don’t know, other than they must be going all in for this year, and the immediate future, because this does make them significantly better, but that’s a lot of money to take on (potentially tying their hands in the future) and a lot of prospects to give up considering the money.
i’m assuming you’ve watched some of the de la rosa clips already? if you haven’t, do
a highlight reel is not predictive, of course, but the pure stuff is delicious
I have. Unbelievable ‘stuff.’
Mike Newman did a piece on the most impressive 80 grades he had ever personally seen and de la Rosa’s fastball was the fastball he talked about. So not only does he give it an 80, but it’s the most impressive 80 fastball he’s ever personally scouted.
to me, the best things about him are his groundball tendencies (high K% and high GB%? want) and the fact that his second-best pitch is the change instead of a slider or curve. if he can even half-way figure out his command…
definitely a high risk guy, but a fun one
Absolutely. And to me, even if he doesn’t learn to command his stuff better, he’s still a starter (most of the questions about him sticking as a starter – at least the ones I’ve seen – were tied to his not being the biggest guy around, which I think is overblown a lot of the time – as long as the guy isn’t like 5′ 6″).
The piece on BP about this has some encouraging things to say about de la Rosa too. Like that he has learned no to be too reliant on the change and to set it up with the fastball, says the change is “really good, and potentially special,” and that his curve is much improved as well. I mean those pitches were nasty before, and now they are improving and he’s learning how to use them, and set them up better?! Now if only someone would say that his command/control is improving in leaps and bounds…
Hahaha… Webster isn’t that good of a prospect.. sorry.. Just because he is a #1 or #2 prospect in a system doesn’t make him good.. Are the top 3 prospects in the Rangers or Rays system at same level as the top 3 in the Giants or Rockies system.. We have seen this too much… Webster has a 3.55 ERA in Triple AAA.. Which translates to the AL East how.. a 4.80-5.00 ERA?
Absolutely agree though.. the salary dump is huge, the loss of A-Gon is huge.. because if you wanna pay for a 1B of that caliber you are going to have to pay more now
if EITHER beckett or crawford rebound this is a huge win for the dodgers. As it stands they acquire an allstar 1b and give up nothing of substance.
They gave up top prospects and are paying about 96% of the salary. They gave up nothing of substance for 2012, but beyond, it’s a bad trade.
they were great prospects before the trade. losers now, though. happens every time
Just like Beckett, Crawford, and Gonzalez were all overpaid losers before the trade, and Allstars now.
i dont want to sound like a broken record but these are not top prospects. and as far as the salary, it is not giving anything of substance away. There’s no reason to think that the dodgers absorbing these salaries will preclude them from improving the team in the future. They are the LA Dodgers. baseball has no salary cap
They are top prospects, at least Webster is. Lee was ranked in the back end of most people’s top 50 lists, and Webster has passed him in the rankings according to baseball prospectus, so he’s a top 50 guy now too. And while de la Rosa has enough major league time to lose his prospect status, that doesn’t change the level of his talent, and according to scouts he’s a potential #2 pitcher.
zach lee was ranked #70 on baseball prospectus. de la rosa WAS eligible to be ranked (14 major league games) but was not. Webster was not ranked. If webster has passed lee it is b/c lee has fallen (era over 5, era over 4.5 last year. so no, they are NOT top prospects.
Baseball Prospectus’ mid-season top 50 list had Lee at #47. de la Rosa had 60 innings pitched, and you lose rookie status at 50. And the quote from Goldstein was “With his stunningly good second half, Webster had eclipsed Zach Lee as the top pitching prospect in the Dodgers’ system,” so the reason he passed Lee was solely due to him gaining ground and not Lee losing it (also, the fact that Lee had moved up 23 spots makes it pretty obvious that Lee hasn’t fallen).
They gave up $260M and two potential top of the rotation pitchers.
not really, adding Adrian is a huge plus, as for the other players if they want they can just cut them, Dodger ownership has billions (200+) and they don’t care about 250 million, its a drop in the pan and will not effect the owners or the team
1. Dodger ownership does not have $200+ Billion Dollars
2. They DO care about $250M, which is roughly 12% of the cost of the team
3. If they cut Beckett and Crawford, they essentially just paid Agon like $40M per year until 2018.
4. Don’t invest
This makes zero sense for the Dodgers. Gonzalez has lost his power, so you’re essentially paying a powerless first basement top 5 first basemen money. Then you take Crawford who is going to need tommy john, and then add in Beckett who has been awful this year. Then the Dodgers send legit prospects over to sweeten the deal? Wow Cherington has to be a genius to shed that many bad contracts that fast. Now he can sign Swisher who’s power numers are better than Gonzalez, at first base. Free up some cash and sign some good free agents, and now he suddenly has a stacked farm system to rebuild.
Dude, i hope your joking about AGon. He had one down year with his long bal numbers. He is now going back to the NL West were he was at his best. Of all the players the Dodgers just got, AGon will do the best. As for Beckett, he still has amazing stuff, he just needs a quick kick in the butt to get him going again. Crawford on the other hand is just not a large market type of player and I don’t see him ever becoming the player he was in Tampa but he will at least do better in LA than in Boston.
I have no explanation as to why Agonz has lost some power this year but calling him a “powerless” 1b seems a bit dramatic considering his 37 dbls and 15 hrs. A hot september could see him around 23 hrs and 45 dbls which is not bad. There’s no indication that it’s a lack of bat speed or any injury. I would not be shocked to see him in a better comfort zone in LA and see the usual power and OBP return. He’s shown he can hit in big parks before so Dodger Stadium won’t be an issue.
I think part of the issue is Fenway. While the park is tailor made for his swing, in general, it is pretty deep in RF if he tries to pull one, and has the wall in left field where his natural power stroke is, so it isn’t the greatest place for him to hit home runs (singles and doubles yes, but not so much home runs – and he was only a couple doubles away from a career high last year, so I think that has some merit).
Fantastic!!! Now we can pay ellsbury!!!
very underrated part of this deal…
You realize how much money boras will demand for ellsbury. It was money better spent if they kept Agon.
One of the best trades in Red Sox history, get rid of $270+ million and get prospects back. Obviously Varitek and Lowe trade is the best ever.
I’m trying not to laugh at the people who are saying the Sox got hosed.. This deal would have been even if the sox would have only gotten one mediocre prospect and Loney with how much salary the sox are dumping. Instead they get 4 prospects, 2 of them being the #2 and #3 pitching prospects.. Rubby De La Rosa has a chance to shine with the sox, and sounds like Webster is promising too.
Yeah. Even if the prospects don’t become impact players I think the Sox still benefit greatly because of the salary saved from Crawford and Beckett.
Dodgers should benefit greatly too. They got a tv deal on the line within the next 2 years. They are probably also looking at the free agents the next 2 offseasons. Hamilton and Greinke won’t be good money spent. The dodgers were able to acquire 3 former allstars and these players are certainly ones that still could be all stars. It is not everyday that you can acquire 3 players of this caliber in one swoop.
I think that it was a win-win trade, just because even though they gave up some very good players they were not working out in boston.
Its official Robert Andino has single handily destroyed the red sox. All hail the curse of Andino
I think Longoria gave the final blow
Biggest beneficiary of this trade? Ben Cherington. He can now begin to build his own team. I just hope that he does it through smart trades and international signings rather than huge FA signings.
AND THE DRAFT! I wanna see more home grown players like Ellsbury Pedroia Middlebrooks, and Buchholz
Nick Punto and some other guys are going to the Dodgers. This move should push them over the top.
Hard to see a-gon go but to get rid of two bad contracts … it is probably best for the future …
so now the real question is … where we gonna spend those $$$ ? Hamilton for 5+ years might not be a great idea ……
so first and foremost, i like beckett and crawford. i hope and expect they’ll do well in LA. having said that, here’s how the deal essentially shakes out from boston’s perspective:
imagine beckett and crawford had team opt-outs in their current contracts for this upcoming offseason. the deal with the opt-out is that you either let the player go and cannot resign him to any kind of deal, or you bring him back for 3/$45M in beckett’s case and 5/$110M in crawford’s case. what would the red sox do?
even though i like the players, it’s pretty clear that they’d cut ties and happily let them walk. in that light, this trade is effectively adrian gonzalez for de la rosa, webster, sands, dejesus
that’s a solid return, but not a great one. straight up, the dodgers win that trade. but when you add back in the opt-outs they are also being granted and factor in money saved, the red sox have to be ecstatic overall
and the dodgers – at least for the next couple of years – should be pretty happy too. money aside, they just got a ton of talent for a very low prospect price
how they’ll make the money work in the future is a different question. if it sinks the ship, this trade will have been a disaster as many are already suggesting. if they say “damn the torpedos” and pay whatever it takes to remain competitive, then this trade will absolutely be a win
Actually, given that Webster and de la Rosa both have top of the rotation potential, and one is already in the majors, I would say that that is at least an even trade for Gonzalez, and possibly slanted in the Red Sox favor. But that’s just me personally.
a year ago, pre-surgery, i’d agree. i’m very high on de la rosa, but he hasn’t pitched enough since TJ to confirm that he’s still a prospect of that caliber
dodgers are getting 6 affordable years of one of the best overall players in baseball. solid haul, but not a great one
Fair enough, I had forgotten that he was that recently back from surgery. But I think the chances of him not still be that guy are pretty slim, no? TJ surgery very rarely has lasting negative effects.
yes. the bigger issue is that he lost a year of development time. his stuff is likely to be just as electric, but it’s always been raw and he hasn’t had any chance to work on it for quite awhile
Would it be safe to say that the Sox are not the types to just sit and collect prospects and hope they pan out? I could see these new additions being coupled with either another mlb player on his way out or with other prospects to make a run at another franchize type player. Either way, I don’t see the Sox “rebuilding” in the long term sense that other teams do. I see a major trade using some of the new found depth and at least one major acquisition via FA.
are you trying to flip my justin upton crazy switch
Would make sense right? IF De La Rosa, Sands, Wedster are prospects the Dbacks like and you add in one or two guys already in the system (not named Bogaerts) then I would think they could get it done, and not empty out the teams farm. Then, go out and make some good FA signings.
I don’t even think they have to go out and make major killings. The previous WS teams were not loaded with marquee FA but guys that were good vets in their early 30’s on short-term deals.
Something like…
1b-Swisher (3 or 4 year deal)
2b-Pedroia
SS-Ciriaco/Iglesias
3b-Middlebrooks
LF-Ross (2 or 3 year deal)
CF-Ellsbury/BJ Upton (BJ on a 3 year deal)
RF-J.Upton
DH-Hafner/Sizemore (1 year deals)
C-Salty
I don’t think there’s any way to subtract that amount of talent and turn this team into a juggernaut in one offseason w/o throwing around tons of money but I think a couple of smart signings and trades that limit the years to less than 4 and the money to less than $15 mil can keep this team competitive enough so that WHEN an opportunity arises to make a huge impact via a trade then they are set to do it. A lineup like the above isn’t elite but good enough to rank among the top 6 or 7 in the AL probably.
Pitching might be a little more of a challenge since elite/good pitching can command deals of 4 years or better unless they sign a player like a Kuroda to a 1 or 2 year deal because of age.
Unfortunately, though, that’s virtually the exact opposite of what the Red Sox are going to do. Get ready for at least one or two miserable rebuilding years. There’s no chance the Sox would swing this deal, only to go out and make another major trade to acquire Upton. That’s completely counter-intuitive if developing homegrown talent is the new prerogative in Boston.
Haha no they don’t… Sorry in the NL West they grade out to to mid rotation.. which means in the AL East back end starters or relievers.. Webster has produced more than de la Rosa… de la Rosa is more hype than production.. If Webster or de la Rosa has sub 2 ERAs (or even good FIPs) then there is something to get excited about.. They are good but not that good sorry..
nevermind callis, hulet, law, and goldstein mainesox. grayhawkAZ has the inside scoop on this one
Webster however I believe to have more promise… but does a 3.55 ERA in Double AA.. that dominant? how is that supposed to translate in the MLB and the AL East? not mention 8.9 hits per 9 innings… he also has command issues with over 4 walks per 9 innings and with a WHIP around 1.50 in Double AA.. Sorry is that dominant? Look at the numbers man, they do not lie…
But I will absolutely agree… The salary dump is a great way to great restarted..
The thing with Webster that may be scary is that he gets hit pretty well by minor leaguers and has some control issues. His WHIP has been hideous at every stop because his BB/9 and H/9 are not what you would want to see from a guy as these RS fans think has #1 potential.
#2-3 potential according to scouts, I’ve yet to see anyone say anything about #1 potential. The walks are concerning, but according to scouts he’s figuring that out, and it’s hard to say whether or not the number of hits he gives up really mean much without knowing how much of it is due to poor minor league defense behind him (there are a lot of really bad defensive players in the minors, and even the good ones are in the minors for a reason, and not necessarily as good as major league defenders).
I misread a comment above about De La Rosa thought it was about both him and Webster, my mistake. Either way, none of these prospects aren’t without concerns and I wouldn’t expect any of them to have a major impact on the next RS contending team. The real deal for the Sox is the immediate payroll relief which I am sure you agree.
No prospect is without concerns, and I don’t don’t see why you can’t expect two, young, top pitching talents to have significant impact?
With de la Rosa’s 80 grade fastball, even if he doesn’t stick as a starter he can be a shut-down closer, and would still have a significant impact on the team.
I knew you would go with the closer angle. He certainly has a good chance of being a BP arm and I have seen a 75 rating on his fastball but I am sure you could dig up somebody who will confirm your bias. I also question his durability because of his frame and apparently he puts strain on his arm when throwing hard. I am not impressed by Webster and do not think he reaches his ceiling of a number 2/3. He lacks command of his secondary offerings and he too could end up in the back of a bullpen. The other prospects are older and haven’t been able to produce at the major league level yet.
It’s not bias, or an angle, it’s what scouts are projecting for him – if he doesn’t stick as a starter he’s got the stuff to be a very good closer, and Mike Newman has said that de la Rosa’s fastball is not only an 80, but the most impressive 80 fastball he’s ever seen.
“The numbers” lie all the time (especially numbers for minor league players, and especially when you’re looking at ERA). There’s a reason teams employ scouts and don’t just look at the numbers prospects are putting up.
You obviously don’t know how grading pitchers works. It doesn’t matter what league they are going to play in, and their minor league ERA certainly doesn’t matter, it’s based on how good they are from a scouting perspective, and according to actual scouts they both grade out as potential #2 pitchers (potential #1 pitcher for de la Rosa if he learns to control his stuff).
An unexpected silver lining to the black cloud of this season.
And people thought before this deal the Dodgers have few minor league prospects. My goodness! LA’s farm system is gonna have less talent than my neighbor’s piano recidal.
I keep reading here that Webster and De La Rosa are #2/3 starters. THat is false. De La Rosa is 5’10” tall. He has walked nearly 4/9ip in his minor league career and nearly 5/9ip in his breif ML career, and he has an injury history. Webster is repeating AA with mediocre numbers. His stock has fallen the past two seasons. these dudes are more like 4/5 starters or bullpen guys.
De La Rosa has also reached as high as 102 MPH on his fastball and has a minor league career 7.1 H/9 and 9.2 SO/9. Walks have been pretty much his ONLY issue, and that’s hardly uncommon even among elite pitching prospects.
As far as your height concern, Pedro Martinez says hi.
That lack of control can be a pretty serious issue now.. i watched the Fish game vs LA last night and Eovaldi (In the Ramirez deal) was throwing upper 90’s also, but couldn’t find home plate with any of his off speed pitches, nor his 95-7mphFB, only when he dropped velocity down to gain control could he throw a strike and LA hit 3HR off of him.. Fish announcer Tommy Hutton said when LA had HR in the 2-3inning it was the 1st time they had accomplished that feat since May.
That leads me to think control and nothing but a FB (dropped in velocity to get a strike over) isn’t of much use.
not hammering on either, but hopefully something can be done with both deLaRosa and Eovaldi. Guys who are capable of throwing that hard period are tough finds.
im not knocking rubby, just said that his height, lack of commmand and injury history point more to him being a relief pitcher than a #2 or, as has been suggested in this thread a number one or pedro martinez. at 22 years old pedro walked 2.8/ 9 for the expos and had a 1.11 whip. at 22 yo rubby had a 4.6 bb rate and a 1.4 whip. the red sox did not just trade for anything close to pedro
Pedro Martinez generously listed at 5’11” but closer to 5’9″, 4.8BB/9 in his first year in the majors. Wonder what happened to him?
great deal for the Redsox, do the Dodgers want any of our Mets players, we won’t even ask for anything in return 🙂
David Wright.
For Matt Kemp? OK!
nice try, he is like the only decent player we have outside of starting pitching. But don’t worry the way this team is run there is no way he will resign with the Mets, he says winning is more important than money, the Mets are no where near the money or the winning. The dodgers today showed they are both. They can offer Wright 7 years 120 million and he will go there faster than Josh Thole striking out on 3 pitches
Perhaps the Dodgers should try not to Philly-ize their farm system.
The people who derailed this org. in the first place are still here. LL has to go
Well, I guess Bobby V is staying around for awhile. Decent trade but Red Sox will need a couple of years to get back inthe hunt.
Wow. Another journalist suffering from premature reporting. Go figure.
What are the Red Sox going to do with all that cash? Well in the deal they lost a utility INF, a #2 or #3 SP, an OF and a middle of the order power threat. The utility INF is already replaced by Ciriaco, and are plenty of solid, number 2 starters on the market, and getting 1 for about 3 mil less than Beckect, signed until 2014 would certainly boost their rotation. But they desperately need a 1B, and a lot a teams will be pushing for the only two effective 1B options: Adam LaRoche or Nick Swisher, and neither of those names are yet to become 1B free agents for sure.
In terms of the outfield, its tricky. Podsenik is doing well, but I’m sure the orginization does not want to run on with a hotstreak by an old player. They could sign a handful of players like Victorino, Ichiro or Andruw. Just speculating here, but regardless, this orginization has the cash and market to hunt for some serious, but lower risk than Crawford/A-Gon, talent.
They should also be aware that they shouldn’t go for old and over the hill talent like Ichiro and Andruw Jones. That will lead them absolutely nowhere.
The Red Sox will make a splash and a big one during the offseason– but with younger, sub-30 players. This will presumably be done in trade.
The Red Sox have the cash.. But do they have the prospects? It is a middle ranked system right now with all of the prospects given away for players.. A lot of the higher ranked prospects have taken a step back this year.. And the premium GMs are asking for the young, starting players that the Red Sox are going to want.. the premium is going to be huge!!!
They should just use spend those millions on youth players internationally and pay the premium tax.. the talent pool there is vast and domestically draft well.. have a foundation to grow upon 3-4 years from now
Red Sox may not have multiple blue chip prospects at or above AA but they certainly do have a very good farm now. People get too caught up in where a prospect ranks but ignore how the prospect is performing. Unranked guys can become tomorrows top 100 prospects easily. Plus add the new influx of prospects from this deal and they can certainly put together a good prospect package to acquire a “Upton” type if desired.
” A lot of the higher ranked prospects have taken a step back this year..”
If you are going to talk so negative about the people? at least have an i-otem of the facts…
boston varied from 10-15th in farm systems pre season AND….
Mid season BA rankings?? **3** in the top 50..
(13, Barnes, 31, Bogaerts, 32, Bradley)
Sickels top 120? **5** with 2 more getting honorable mention..
Yeah.. Some weak system
The Red Sox are rebuilding for 2014. With all of this money off the books, there’s one person they’re going all out to get.
FELIX HERNANDEZ
They can trade Lester and Ellsbury now as far as I’m concerned. Rebuild around Felix in 2014. Send Lester home to the Mariners, which will help cushion the blow when they lose Felix. Ellsbury can play somewhere in CA if he wants.
Seattle isn’t letting Felix go anywhere, especially given he is one of the best pitchers in franchise history. Thats the kind of player teams are reluctant to give away.
Moreover, the Mariners wouldn’t give Felix away for Lester. They’d want 2007 Manny and a young version of David Ortiz.. plus 3-4 prospects.
Your crazy hes good but no one is worth a younger Manny, Ortiz and 3-4 prospects….
This trade has significant risk for the Dodgers, but what it also says is that the Dodgers are indeed looking to have a payroll that rivals the Yankees, and maybe even higher.
I would not be shocked to see the Dodger payroll next year at over $200 mill.
Yes, they have $193 mill committed towards next year, but they also have a pretty complete roster next year as well the lineup is pretty set, with the possible exception of 3B.
The rotation looks pretty set with Kershaw, Billz, Beckett, Capuano, Harang and Lilly.
The bullpen is also pretty much set with Belisario and Jansen at the back end.
They might tinker here and there, but the roster as constructed next year is a definite contender.
Long term, I think the Dodgers are committed to re-building the farm system and we have seen that with the Dodgers being aggressive in the international free agent market.
So I think the plan will be to have a bunch of stars (ie. Kemp, AGon, HanRam, Kershaw, Crawford) and surround them with young, talented and affordable players.
That way, the Dodgers can have a deep, talented roster for a $200+ million payroll.
Losing De La Rosa and Webster is a significant price, but I think the Dodgers will eventually have a system that is loaded with guys like them (or better) so that trading prospects like them will not be a big deal.
“Long term, I think the Dodgers are committed to re-building the farm
system and we have seen that with the Dodgers being aggressive in the
international free agent market.”
McCourt killed them though. LA could have had another couple of good years under the belt draft wise had he now… You know what’d out on the draft on the fan base and we all chatted here about it. Now the lousy cap is in place and it is one, tough hombre to game this new slot system. you lose (like Houston), or have FA leave and are able to offer arbitration, plus lucky enough to have them go elsewhere? you might be able to do well, but otherwise, it is really tough.
I do hope LA can fix their farm, seems like last time looked it was 25-28th in the league and don’t take offense please if it was better, going from memory. That needs a lot of improvement if it was correct and will take some time being forced to go with Selig and his pet system.
maybe..Just maybe Selig will figure out nobody wants him and walk off with his system??
For the record, the decimation of the once-great Dodger farm system began under the Fox ownership. Those people didn’t have a clue about baseball. A bunch of suits. They tried to run the team like they were making widgets or something. McCourt didn’t do anything to help, but then he never had the resources.
There has been so much bad will earned by the the last 2 owners (and some of us observant the last years of the O’Malleys) that they had to go all out and take the risk. Status quo was not going to be enough. This trade flurry is actually great business for the new owners. And that’s before you get to baseball and having Kemp Gonzales Hanley and Either is a hell of a middle of the order
The dodgers payroll is not going to be higher than the yankees people are getting way ahead of themselves with this stuff…..The Dodgers do not have yankee money ultimately nobody does..
I’m not egging the Dodgers along to become the Yankees of the West, but this is exactly where they are headed in terms of spending. Because yes indeed they do have the money. That much, and then some, especially when the media rights come up next year.
Nobody ever has as much money as the Yankees…The diodgers will never have as good of a tv deal as the Yankees
The Yankees have a brand value that nobody surpasses and I’m not even a Yankee fan
Sorry, but that’s shallow reasoning. LA is the second-largest media market in the country, easily 10 million people, and until recently the Dodgers were always one of the top draws in all of MLB. They were the premier franchise in the West until Fox got their grubby mitts on the team, only to be followed by Franknjamie. The Dodgers will probably take over their media rights next year, just as the Yankees have already. I’m not necessarily looking forward to the Dodgers becoming a $200m payroll team, but in fact there’s no question but that they could.
I think your wrong on that, the Jays owners are the richest in MLB only problem is they are cheap and won’t spend.
For any Dodgers fan that has had to suffer through the past how-many-ever years of disappointment, this has to be exciting for them. They’re going for it.
Our long fan nightmare is over. I’m not sure you can expect to whip up a championship team in the last five weeks of the season, but I like that they’re dealing for players who will be anchors for the team for the next few years.
Hey.. If ted Lilly can win at LA (hurt now, understand) then Beckett ought to win a Cy Young award for your Dodgers next year Blue 🙂
Lilly hasn’t been a stranger to good pitching over a long career, but I am wondering now if he will ever pitch again. Speaking of which the Beckett part of this deal has me worried. Crawford looks like a much better bet to make a comeback.
They’re committed to re-building the farm system, so they traded a bunch of their top prospects away and ate a ton of salary?
A bunch of top prospects? Two?
Guess ned’s job is safe for now.
I’ll honest if I was a Dodger fan I would not be happy about this deal at all
You just gave the red sox a get out of jail free card by allowing them to remove that awful Crawford
Beckett has lost velocity on his fastball and it is questionable whether he can be the same pitcher he once was
AGon is probably the only player that is a lock to be good in this trade and even he was having a down power year
Why not?? The Dodgers are simply taking on money. They have the 22nd ranked farm system and are getting 3 premium players for nothing.
Beckett isn’t a premium player anymore he doesn’t have the same stuff
Crawford is a complete unknown with his injuries and the fact they have to completely redo his throwing mechanics.
Agon is the only player that is premium for sure
Beckett has only 2 years left on his deal and is only 1 year removed from being a 5.5 WAR pitcher.
Crawford was a completely known quantity, which was a .300 hitter who stole about 50 bases a year, until he went to Boston. My gut tells me the scene in Boston and the new contract (along with wrist and elbow injuries) affected him. See Hanley Ramirez as an example of what a fresh start (and clean health) can do for a star player’s career.
AGon’s 6yrs/$127 mill is very reasonable when compared to the deals Pujols, Votto and Fielder got.
Its funny how much love Webster and De La Rosa are getting when there was no way they would have been enough to get AGon at the beginning of the season. Plus, the Dodgers still have Zach Lee and Chris Reed and have continued to stockpile arms in this year’s draft and now through the international free agent market. So the cupboard is not bare for the Dodgers, in terms of pitching.
Hanley Ramirez didn’t have the injury problems Crawford has I don’t see how his situation is similar
Beckett is going to have to find that velocity he lost on his fastball to be the pitcher he once was.
Hanley had a shoulder injury that hampered him last year. He had surgery.
He was just getting healthy this season.
Since being a Dodger, he is hitting .306avg/.361obp/.550slg mainly at SS.
In a lineup that will have Crawford, Ethier, Kemp and AGon, HanRam is going to be doing some major damage for the Dodgers.
Crawford is also going to benefit from being in the Dodgers’ lineup. He can just go back to being the catalyst he was in Tampa.
You forgot Nick Punto. He was the corner stone to this deal.
Is it me, or is this trade just opening the doors for Bobby V on his way out too?
I don’t think this deal has anything to do with Valentine. I think once it was announced that the Dodgers claimed Beckett as well as Gonzalez that Cherington saw a chance to get rid of Beckett and Crawford and get some prospects in return.
I think the Red Sox are clearing cap room to go after Josh Hamilton. They must not allow the Yankees to sign him. A Yankee fan friend of mine (forgive him for he knows not what he does) says the Bombers are trying to trim payroll, not add to it. I told him if the national debt could hit .350 with 50 HRs, the Yankees would find a way to pay for it.
Your friend is right the Yankees have been pretty clear that they want to be under the luxury tax
NY is not a good spot for Hamilton, he got close to off field trouble in Texas recently, in NY would be a disaster. I am not sure how Boston is for temptation
I don’t see them making a run at Hamilton, unless they felt he can he had for a short-term deal like 4 or 5 years. I just feel like he’s always going to be a health risk.
I see Josh Hamilton staying where he is in Texas; that clubhouse is well-structured with firm leadership in place. Now, I cannot rule out Boston as a destination since the nightlife all but shuts down at midnight (as the Boston transit system stops running at 12:30 AM), but he is in familiar territory in Texas.
I think it is going to really hard to find a elite first baseman like Adrian Gonzalez, although I like the trade I just think there are not too many first baseman out there of that caliber….especially since many of them such as Votto, Pujols, Fielder,etc are all locked up on long term deals and are probably untouchable…is this going to be like 2009 all over again when we had players like LaRoche and Kotchman trying to fill the void of Youk being injured….
Maybe you make a run at Swisher….He came up as a first baseman until the White Sox converted him to right field
He actually played right and center for the A’s
The Dodgers get rid of injury prospect disappointments, and, possible AAAA hitters. The Red Sox dump several monster albatross contracts. Adrian Gonzalez is the best player swapped, but his contract diminishes his worth to a team.
I thought the Piazza for Sheffield/Bonilla/Johnson trade was a blockbuster but this is THREE impact players for a big group of prospects.
How good of a package of prospects is this?
Who are the three impact players?
Sarcasm? Crawford, AGon and Beckett. Yes Crawford had a subpar year and is coming off an injury but the guy is talented. Beckett can still be a mid-rotation guy, at worst. He won’t be asked to be the ace on the Dodgers either. And AGon is solid all around.
Yes well the only player worth while that the dodgers got is AGon, Crawford is coming off surgery and Beckett well I just don’t see him getting any better, Sure going to the NL helps some pitchers but he won’t be an Impact player.
I take it you dont know about the ‘Beckett Cycle’. He takes every other year off. So next year should be a good one for him. Go ahead check his numbers.
I noticed that too haha
Pretty good. De La Rosa is the best of the bunch, potentially. Sands has slipped in most estimations, but he could still break out. De Jesus could also make progress with more playing opportunity. He’s been stuck in a utility role in LA. Webster hasn’t been above middle A-ball so too soon to tell, IMO.
Webster has over 200 innings in AA, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see him go to AAA when he comes to the Sox, or at least start next year there – that’s not really too soon to tell (and scouts had him as either the #1 or #2 prospect in the Dodger’s system at the time of the trade).
Pitchers in the west often skip the PCL because it’s so notoriously tough on pitching. Even so I am always leery of top prospect ratings for a player who has spent 3-4 years in A-ball and hasn’t had a promotion. Pitchers who’ve had at least a MLB audition give you a better idea of their potential. Time will tell but if I had to bet on who is going to be better, it would be De La Rosa at this point.
I’d put my money on de la Rosa being better at this point too, but that doesn’t mean Webster isn’t good, or that it’s too early to tell how good he could be. He came into pro-ball at 18 years old (those guys almost always take a few years before they make it to the upper minors, simply because they start out so young), and was only 21 when he first made it to AA (average age in AA is about 24), and he’s still only 22 and could easily be in the majors by mid-season next year.
I’m not really disagreeing, only pointing out that the bankable prospects tend to blow right through the minors, no matter how young they were when signed. When they’ve been in the low minors for four years or more without ever being brought up I begin to suspect that they might not make it. For whatever reason, the Dodgers never auditioned Webster. Now Boston will have to decide when to throw him into the deep water.
Only the Strasburgs, Hernandezs, and Kershaws of the world move through the minors like that, very few pitching prospects make it to the majors that young, and it’s only the best of the best one that actually do – the overwhelming majority take the Jon Lester route through the minors (and can still become some of the top pitchers in the game).
The General rule (and it is general, there are certainly exceptions) is that players who make it to the majors before they are 22 are the players who have star potential (#1 type pitchers), players who make it from 22-24 are something less than that, but generally at least average regulars (#2-3 pitchers), and after 24 are more likely to be role players. That’s not to say that that always (or even usually) holds true, but to have the perception that a guy is something less than good (or even might not make it) simply because they haven’t made it to the majors before they turn 22 (which is generally only when guys who are true star players make it to the majors).
De La Rosa had his first audition when he was 22, but even more significantly when he’d completed only three full years in the minors. It’s far more about the time they spend toiling in A-ball that I look at, instead of age. You could come up with a long list of nobodies who auditioned in MLB before they’d booked four years in the minors. Example: John Ely got a shot at the majors after only three years; now it looks like he’s slipped under the waves. It’s somewhat circumstantial of course, but I think the list of pitchers who made an impact at the MLB level after spending more than three full years in the minors without a promotion would be a short relatively list. All this being said, I think we don’t disagree that De La Rosa is the best of the bunch acquired in the trade, assuming he is fully recovered.
Ely spent three years in the minors after being drafted out of college, that’s completely apples to oranges, he was almost the same age when he was drafted as Webster is now.
Again, talking about the time spent playing A-ball. You may not think this is an important distinction but that was my point.
I read this: “I think the list of pitchers who made an impact at the MLB level after
spending more than three full years in the minors without a promotion
would be a short relatively list.” And thought you were talking about three years before making it to the majors, my mistake. But Webster spent his first season in rookie ball, his second season in A ball, and his third season in A+ and AA (spending almost twice as much time in AA than in A+), so I don’t really think that distinction applies to him.
And anyways, while I understand where you are coming from (I really do, he’ll be in his fifth season next year without making it to the majors, which is higher than average), I don’t think it has anywhere near the implications that you think it might. Prospect evaluators are putting him in the top 50 prospects (or at least Baseball Prospectus implies that they would as of last night) and saying he’s a potential #2 starter.
The fact that the Dodger elevated the less-experienced Stephen Fife when they needed some spot starts tells me something.
Fife had more experience, had made it to AA the year before Webster, and was already in AAA.
Even if you were actually right though, it could tell you that they weren’t worried about messing with Fife’s development like they were Webster’s because Fife doesn’t have anywhere near the potential that Webster does (because he doesn’t).
They both started A-ball in 2008 but Webster didn’t pitch much in his first season. When a team is short on pitching in a pennant race it seems to me they are more interested in winning games than worrying about one player’s development path. By contrast De La Rosa skipped the PCL entirely when the rotation came up short last season. This is why I don’t always buy the public scouting reports. Anyway, nothing will tell but time.
Fife has thrown more innings every single season, and has quite a few more minor league innings pitched overall, and if a team is really willing to risk damaging a player’s development for the small increase in playoff odds he might give them they are absolutely doing it wrong.
Christmas in August!!! Thank you SOOOO much LA!!!
Yess!!! I can finally say it . goodbye james loney.
Most expensive Good Bye EVER.
So, for Red Sox fans, start your christmas wish list now, seeing that they got all this dough to spend. My list consist of this, Hamilton for left field, Swisher for first (he’s played there before) resign Ross for rf, Greinke to start (possibly Dan Haren if the halos dont pick up his option).
I don’t think Greinke could handle Boston
I mean do you want a guy with anxiety issues pitching under the scope of the boston media?
Haren has an ERA of 4.60 pitching in a pitcher friendly ballpark
The only way I like any of this years SP is on a 1 year deal. Most likely won’t happen for any of them but they can’t break the bank for pitchers who will under perform. They need an ACE and this years market consists of none. Greinke is a strong 2, 1A.
Dodgers must plan to be the Yankees of the NL. Well good for them, I guess, they can build their empire now and LA will cheer and cheer forever, boo whenever they don’t meet expectations (talk to the Mets about that).
Of course every trade like this is terrible for my team, though… they’re too poor to hold onto anybody ever and the revolving door of mediocrity keeps spinning while the big guys just toy with the market
Reasons I’ve become less of a fan with age…..Thanks MLB for making the local pro team in my favorite sport irrelevant. Its all about the money, always has been, always will be. They’re playing a child’s game, remember, and all of these millions are literally insane. No sane society would recommend its entertainers be paid these kinds of salaries while it struggles with so many problems….
What team are you referring to?
Looks like a great deal for the Sox, and it’s hard to see why the Dodgers are buying so high. Maybe Crawford comes out of his funk next year, but the original contract was a mistake-no one right now would sign him for even half the money. Maybe Beckett recovers, but to make his contract worthwhile he’s got to be a a 2 at least. I’m not sure I get it-money and talent for bad contracts.
the dodgers are buying at the lowest point of each player’s career, they’re just paying a ton do so
I wonder if the Dodgers were told that they had to take Crawford’s contract to get Adrian Gonzalez.
Cherington is a genius and ACTUALLY LISTENED to the crying/dying fans of Red Sox Nation. Good for him and good for the Red Sox because now I can watch the Red Sox lose for the rest of season and not think, “What a waste of money!” However, its not all bad because we got a few good prospects in Webster, De La Rosa and Sands and salary dump. Now we can pay for Ellsbury too! All we need now is a decent 1B that can hit more than 15 HRs a year, and I’m talking about Loney not A-Gon here.
OF to look forward to: Jerry Sands (AAA), Ryan Kalish (AAA), Jackie Bradley Jr. (AA), Bryce Brentz (AA)
IF: Middlebrooks (MLB), Bogaerts (AA)
C: Lavarnway (MLB) and Swihart (A)
Pitchers: De La Rosa, Webster (AA), MATT BARNES (A+) <—– I LOVE THAT GUY and I guess you could throw in Ranaudo if he stays healthy
Lookin' like the KC Royals here with these guys. Alright maybe not to the extent of KC with Myers, Bubba, Odorizzi but you get the point!
So much for A Gon never getting traded.
The Dodgers might be taking on monster payroll, but at the end of the day, I still see this as Ben Cherington serving notice to the Red Sox clubhouse; why else would he have pushed so hard for this to be completed (presuming it gets done) this late in the season?
This tells me that Bobby V will be back next season, and as I said in the other thread, he picked the manager over the players and, as a bonus, gets to dump salary at the same time.
What is it with the recent history of Los Angeles teams taking on bad AL East contracts? Manny Ramirez, Vernon Wells, A-Gon, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett.
Agon isnt a bad contract…
The Dodgers might be taking on a lot of payroll, but at the end of the day, I still see this as Ben Cherington serving notice to the Red Sox clubhouse; why else would he have pushed so hard for this to be completed (presuming it gets done) this late in the season?
This tells me that Bobby V will be back next season, and as I said in the other thread, he picked the manager over the players and, as a bonus, gets to dump salary at the same time.
How many times have we read the reply. “Why is this even news, All players get run through revocable waivers in August.” Well we can’t be sayin that anymore.
I get the Adrian Gonzalez addition and I like it. I get the Josh Beckett addition too although at this point I think he’s very overpaid. What I don’t get is how Carl Crawford fits into the equation. With Kemp, Ethier and Victorino already out there, where does he play? I’m guessing Victorino probably is not in the plans for the future of the Dodgers but they still have him for this season and they can’t play 4 outfielders at once.
Crawford is out for the year.
Probably a price to pay for getting Adrian Gonzalez, if you ask me. I also see Victorino as gone after the season…and don’t rule out Matt Kemp being traded to an American League team.
Crawford Just had Tommy John, is out for the year and will Be Major league ready between April and June next year. Victorino will walk after this year and Leftfield will be Crawford’s.
Victorino is a free agent after this season…Crawford is out for a while
Thanks, that clears that up.
MLBTR should be absolutely jumping for joy at this news because it means that Boston will be major major players in the free agent market for years to come. I expect them to be at least interested in every free agent player of value for the next 3 years. Yankees fans should be very upset at this news because Boston has significantly more buying power as a result of this trade.
They are better suited to get a player on a team via trade that isn’t contending soon who isn’t 28-30ish hitting free agency and overpaying. Certain players are worth it, but most aren’t & never display the same value thru the life of the deal.
Does anyone else find it interesting that Boston originally traded Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett and now they are both Los Angeles Dodgers?!
dodgers should of made the sox take uribe too.
Fear not Giants fans, good pitching beats good hitting. They could have Kemp,Victorino, Gonzalez,Crawford, Reggie Jackson,Eddie Murray and the Giants pitching would still shut them down. Beckett isnt as dominant as he once was. Crawford was a bust in Boston who did a nice house cleaning job, but they need to dump Valentine. As for the Dodgers…they are still beatable with teams that have good pitching and play better baseball against them. Nothing like a trade with 2 of my least favorite teams LOL
How can you say they’re beatable when they haven’t played yet?
It is going to be interesting if this “Sell out streak” lie will continue this season….is there any speculation that they are going to sell the team
I’m no Sox fan but to dump over paid,over the hill player like they did showed me the new Dodgers management has no clue how to build a team.But it fits the Hollywood style,big names with no substance.
Good move for both sides. A lot of pressure on the Dodgers to win now. If the season ended today, they’re not even in the playoffs yet. For their sake I hope they at least get in. I know “there’s always next year”, but some of the contracts they absorbed make me cringe a little. Anyone know if this puts the Dodgers over the luxury tax threshold? Maybe not this year, but next year?
Ladies and gentlemen, we are officially changing our name to the Los Angeles Yankees!
The pic that Punto tweeted just makes me sick
I am not a Yankees fan but man you have to admire Cashman. Every other team that has spent big has imploded except for his. Year in and year out the Yankees are there and if the Red Sox have proven anything this year it isnt about the money.
Only a matter of time before the Dodgers learn the lesson. Frankly I dont like their pitching staff next year past kershaw.
Something implodes we just bring in someone else to replace him. What I will say in his favor is that he has done a very good job being conservative with HOW he spends the money and with WHOM over the last 3 seasons. He’s done a good job w/ vets on short term deals and with developing a farm system that may be short on ELITE level mlb product but stocked with mlb players that are cheap and serve the team well.
Has anyone seen a TRULY official press statement from the two teams or the league stating that the deal is officially completed? The Dan Roche and Silverman tweets from inside sources do not constitute an official statement in my book.
This deal will always be remember for how the Red Soxs stole Loney from the Dodgers for roster flotsam.
great trade for the bosox, no idea how they even got prospects for this.
Awesome trade for the rest of the AL East. Boston won’t be contending for a while now that they dumped half their core. Dumped Beckett at his lowest value, CC’s probably not going to be good ever again, but top first basemen aren’t exactly easily gotten these days.
I guess if Boston wants to save the money for whenever they have a good core again, it makes sense. But this is going to hurt Boston a lot in the short term and the medium term.
Awesome trade for the rest of the AL East. Boston won’t be contending for a while. Took them ages to get an Adrian Gonzalez, and now they just gave him away.
Plus they traded Beckett at his lowest possible value instead of waiting for him to have his usual great odd year.
I get having financial flexibility, but there’s no one to spend that money on in the offseason.
adding Punto to this trade makes it qualify as a blockbuster
So I think its safe to say Ramirez is not a long term option for L.A. Because money being spent on Gonzo, Kemp, Crawford, and a future extension for Kershaw. If their are any real Dodger fans out there that can agree with me or disagree with me?
I thought these kind of trades only existed in video games..
Josh Beckett is still gonna be able to play golf and drink beer, but he’s gonna have to settle for Dodger Dogs instead of chicken…..
Putting Punto in the clean up spot should protect Kemp from being pitched around. He is a switch hitter you know.
Great trade by the Sox. They knew they were out of contention for this year at least, so they saved money. The prospects are pretty much garbage, but maybe one will pan out and make an impact in the future. I can’t believe this trade went through.
Let’s go Blue Jays! We might not finish last after all!
Too bad Toronto stopped the Rubby part of the trade—he might have been a big help as a rotation boost or as a pen arm the rest of the season–especially after Aceves meltdown Fri. night.
Here’s where Ben Cherington is doing everything right and Ruben Amaro Jr is doing everything wrong.
When Dodgers claimed Cliff Lee, Ruben should’ve sent them Ryan Howard, Papelbon, Jimmy Pop-up and Chase Utley in a package in exchange for prospects.
Now Boston Red Sox have less than 50 mil on the payroll next year. That’s a whole lot to spend on up and coming players.
They could make a move on a guy like Justin Upton, or just stay put and sign their own prospects to long term deals.
But remember, Ruben was given the first chance, but failed to jump at the chance.
Boston wins this one
Red Sox destroyed the Dodgers with this trade. Sox dumped overpaid malcontents and brought in some quality guys and won the World Series in 2013. Any trade that directly results in a Ring is a win!