Alex Anthopoulos hasn't committed more than $3.75MM to any free agent since becoming the Blue Jays' general manager more than two years ago. He has downplayed the likelihood of a substantial increase in payroll this offseason and the Blue Jays don’t appear to be especially interested in free agent right-handers Hiroki Kuroda, Roy Oswalt and Edwin Jackson, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. In other words, it’ll be a surprise if the Jays sign one of the top available free agent starters before Opening Day.
It’s not clear how the Blue Jays intend to bolster their starting corps, but it’s no secret they could use rotation help heading into the 2012 season. Ricky Romero leads a rotation that will likely include Brandon Morrow, Brett Cecil and Henderson Alvarez. To compete in the stacked American League East, they’ll probably need reinforcements.
As MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes explained earlier today, there are many lower-tier free agents who represent buy-low opportunities for teams like the Blue Jays. It’s not clear whether the Blue Jays believe free agents such as Paul Maholm, Joe Saunders and Jeff Francis could thrive in a division that includes two of the game's most potent offenses. None of the three left-handers averaged a 90 mph fastball or struck out more than 5.4 batters per nine innings in 2011, though they all pitched at least 160 innings.
Free agent right-hander Bartolo Colon could appeal to the Blue Jays on a one-year deal, but only if the front office is willing to overlook a pedestrian second half that included two ugly starts in Toronto. There’s also Rich Harden, the British Columbia native who posted 9.9 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9 in 15 starts for the Athletics. It appears unlikely either Colon or Harden would require a major financial commitment, but both have histories of health issues that could reduce Toronto’s interest.
Anthopoulos has averaged roughly one trade per month since becoming the team’s GM in 2009, so it’s safe to say he’s eyeing the trade market and it's likely he's looking beyond highly publicized trade targets like Matt Garza (he’s not likely to join Toronto’s rotation, according to Rosenthal). Since 2010, the Blue Jays have orchestrated deals involving Sergio Santos, Vernon Wells and Yunel Escobar without much advance notice, giving Toronto fans reason to expect the unexpected.
It appears that Jair Jurrjens, Gavin Floyd, Jon Niese, Chris Volstad, Wandy Rodriguez and Brett Myers could be obtained for the right combination of prospects and salary relief. Should Mike Minor, Brandon Beachy, Matt Harrison, Colby Lewis or Brandon McCarthy become available, the Blue Jays may inquire. The same goes for Tampa Bay starters such as James Shields, not that obtaining a top pitcher from a division rival is ever easy.
There’s also the possibility that the Blue Jays will open Spring Training without having added a high-profile arm to the rotation. Kyle Drabek could start in the Majors if he regains his command. Dustin McGowan and Aaron Laffey could compete for rotation spots in Spring Training. Prospects such as Drew Hutchison, Deck McGuire and Chad Jenkins could get looks in the rotation at some point. Relievers Carlos Villanueva, Luis Perez and Jesse Litsch started games last year and could re-emerge as rotation candidates.
Recent history suggests Anthopoulos prefers the trade market to the free agent market, the Blue Jays could use a starting pitcher and they have a deep farm system. It's tempting to assume the Blue Jays will trade for a starter in the coming weeks, but after a winter's worth of Gio Gonzalez and Yu Darvish rumors, Blue Jays fans know that predicting their team's next move remains as difficult as ever.
I think the Jays will not sign or trade for any substantial SP. Trying to build from farm but will waste prime years of Bautista.
Doomed for another 4th place in 2012.
I like how you’re talking about yourself in 3rd tense.
They can actually wait 4 years and if nothing happens still get a decent haul at the deadline considering hes got a club option year and teams would have him for a playoff run and another full year. But it also wouldn’t surprise me if he played the full contract out here. Specially since AA’s first task was trading Halladay and how difficult that was for fans , why trade your franchise guy when any one of these next 5 could be that year you win it all.
Haha. I totally changed my comment on you. Sorry broheim! I’ll throw it here so to spare others the confusion:
“The Jays will probably end up trading Bautista within 2 years, and it hurts my head to think about it.”
skyrim
damn dude have a little faith lol
The instant gratification fans rarely have faith, they want that big money free agent or trade in order to feel satisfied.
Freaking ban wagon fans in TO, they just want a big name FA or trade so they can believe.
Ya, winning is terrible.
my thoughts exactly
my thoughts exactly
Considering that the jays have already traded for the whitesox closer and middle reliever. They clearly should trade for Gavin Floyd. He actually makes a ton of sense
For them
Are the White Sox fans getting the wool pooled over their eyes like Kenny Williams is? They’re giving away their most valuable parts for a little bit of not much.
To be honest it may seem like he is
Giving people away but he is trading away areas of surplus( bullpen and outfield) and getting back areas of weakness( minor league young pitching) and considering that the sox hired a former blue jays scout they may look a these guys as potential impact pitchers. Yes it seems weird but he is getting depth which is something they didn’t have before these trades. Also these guys are kind of projects for Cooper who has worked his magic before ( Thornton, jenks, Floyd, danks). So we shall see Are these easy wins for the sox? No…. But are they clear wins for the jays and padres? Not really. Pretty fair for both clubs. The six needed potentially good minor leaguers who are young and to clear salary( possibly to make a run a cepedes) and they acquiring teams got potential impact players.
They’ll trade for someone.
I really wish that Jake Westbrook and Kyle McLellan were on the list.
As a STL fan? Because those guys would get rocked in the AL East.
Yes, as a STL fan. But not just this list, any list of available SP.
Well Jake Westbrook has been rocked in the NL Central. So it won’t make a difference.
A few teams have shown considerable restraint this offseason, most notably the Jays and Yankees. The two teams have pretty much made it public knowledge they their number one priority is to land a top of the rotation starter. A few questionable names have changed hands and nothing of a peep from either team. AA has been involved in a few savvy moves and Cashman is one of the best GM’s in baseball. Most importantly both teams probably have some of the better prospects, with depth, to trade, and yet, nothing. It makes me believe there is an arm who’s name hasn’t really been floated and a select few teams, Yankees, Jays, and perhaps Tigers and Royals may have an inside track on. Maybe not, but my gut tells me a few GM’s are also holding out for the third shoe to drop for the Mariners. Just an optimistic view of the whole Jays and Yanks thing this offseason.
I follow your line of reasoning and agree that there may be an ace being offered up we haven’t heard about and that the yankees and jays may be saving their prospects for just such an opportunity.
Mike Minor IS available, please come take a look. He’s the first of the untouchables I’d trade.
have you been paying attention at all? Frank Wren has said many times that he won’t trade any of our young pitching. He didn’t give it up for Bourn, he didn’t give it up for Uggla and he told the Orioles to take a hike. Minor isn’t going anywhere quite yet.
The Padres also said that Latos wasn’t available.
“He didn’t give it up for Bourn”
Exactly why would a team give up a top prospect, or any prospects for that matter for Bourn when said team could sign as a FA the exact same thing in Crisp?
Just waiting to buy my Felix Hernandez jersey… A man can hope, right? Haha.
we have the farm to do it.. better to pay in prospects for a bonafide #1 than a 2 or 3
As a Mariners fan, I’d gladly trade Felix for Lawrie, Snydergaard, Masrinick, and d’Arnaud…. I’d even throw in Liddi. 🙂
lol I bet you would….
substitute Lawrie for something else and deal.
Okay, your top 9 prospects as per Sickels should do it if Lawrie (the centerpiece) wouldn’t be involved. You have to give up some serious talent to get a guy who has put up 33 WAR at the age of 25. Otherwise the Mariners walk away and keep Felix. The Jays can continue to stay in 4th until after Bautista is dried up… and then climb to 3rd.
top 9 prospects?
dream on buddy. Felix is awesome but no one does that trade. .
I find it really awkward for you to talk down to jays fans, being a mariners fan and all..
Brett lawrie played 43 games and posted a higher WAR than any position player on the mariners did the whole year. HA
Ooooooh, you sooooo told me. You said “HA”. Apparently you got me.
Admitting is the first step!
I’m going to enjoy it when Felix goes to the Red Sox or the Yankees and eats the Jays for a decade.
And I’m going to enjoy the Mariners being mediocre for the next two!
you won’t get nearly the package we can from the sox.. yanks could put together a good deal though.
Alright? lol
What’s with all the hate towards the Mariners eastern Cousin ??
top 9 prospects?
dream on buddy. Felix is awesome but no one does that trade. .
I find it really awkward for you to talk down to jays fans, being a mariners fan and all..
Brett lawrie played 43 games and posted a higher WAR than any position player on the mariners did the whole year. HA
Roy Halladay> Felix Hernandez
Except very much older and already completely peaked. Where was Halladay when he was 25?
He just finished winning the Cy Young.
that was ’03, but ’02 was a really good year for him as well.
yea your right, but still.
Lawrie is untouchable, the fans would instantly turn on AA if he traded him.
Jays have more than enough to get Felix without him in the deal.
Yeah, they turned on him when he traded Halladay, too, didn’t they? That’s why no Blue Jays fans like AA nowadays.
NO he had to trade Halladay for the billionth time.
yea your right, but still.
Lawrie is untouchable, the fans would instantly turn on AA if he traded him.
Jays have more than enough to get Felix without him in the deal.
No. Comparing linearly by age, Felix is better. Felix had a Cy Young and a runner up to Cy Young. Halladay had an All Star appearance.
And Cy Youngs and All-Star appearances matter.. why?
Fine. By the end of age 25 season, Felix had 33 WAR and Halladay had 13.
At the time of the Roy Halladay trade, he had a Cy Young, a runner up, and 2 other top 5 finishes, similar to Felix now, Halladay was in his prime.
We got 3 top prospects, one being a question mark.
D’Arnaud is a top 20 prospect, Lawrie would be a top 5. With Marisnick and Syndegaard both being top 100, that is too big of a price for any player. Lawrie is also proven in the big leagues, much more value than a pure prospect.
And Halladay had 3 years left on his contract at the time of the trade, right?
he had 1 year left, and the phillies worked out a 3 year extension before the trade. so 4 years in total
Peaked? Most hitters have said he has improved as he’s gotten older. David Ortiz compared Halladay to fine wine last Spring Training.
We gave up a pretty good pitcher in Marcum, sure not a #1 but a solid #2/3 just for Lawrie, we aren’t going to flip him AND other top prospects for another pitcher. The jays aren’t specifically looking for an ace, so they wouldn’t trade away major pieces to get one.
You wouldn’t trade away a piece that could be replaced by trading other prospects for a guy who manhandles the Sox and Yankees?
Lawrie cannot be replaced in Toronto. Fans are in love, and Rogers cannot risk losing more fans.
Felix obviously wouldn’t replace him at all…. And you can take Lawrie out and replace him with Ackley and Toronto with Seattle. But I’m pretty sure Seattle would trade Ackley for Verlander if there was an offer on the table.
You don’t seem to put two and two together, Lawrie is Canadian. One of the few young canadians that look promising and are in the majors. If he trades him, it does not matter who he gets.
The Value of Lawrie to Toronto, is much greater than any other team.
Because Vancouver is so much closer to Toronto than to Seattle.
Thats like saying the Jays fans will love someone because they are from new york, no.
It’s not about the distance,it’s about the passport you carry..there is a big difference between Canada and America and we like it the way it is.you should know that if you live by the border.
Here’s he’d be close to home any happier and get to play in front of a hometown crowd, much like Michael Saunders did before falling off a cliff.
Here’s he’d be close to home any happier and get to play in front of a hometown crowd, much like Michael Saunders did before falling off a cliff.
no they wouldn’t because losing ackley but gaining verlander still wouldn’t make them a winning ball club.
counter productive.
I can’t believe you actually believe this. You do not think the Mariners would trade a guy who could possibly be a good 2B for the crowned Cy Young Award winner, the crowned MVP … simply because it creates a hole? Are you kidding me? And Ackley has been rated higher than Lawrie.
Well it obviously wouldn’t be Ackley for Verlander straight up..
Mariners offense is already a laughing stock, Ackley is worth much more to the mariners than verlander is, especially when the mariners have high end pitching moving up in the system..
Just because a player is good, doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a good fit on every team. Mariners are looking to trade or bring in offense, what sense would they have in trading offense for pitching? to lose more 2-1 games?
Ackley posted a 2.7 WAR in limited action last year in just over half the season.. He’ll be a 5 WAR player.. In verlander you’d be gaining a 7 WAR pitcher.. is the extra 2 wins worth all the prospects and extra $ you are going to spend?
no.
Well it obviously wouldn’t be Ackley for Verlander straight up..
Mariners offense is already a laughing stock, Ackley is worth much more to the mariners than verlander is, especially when the mariners have high end pitching moving up in the system..
Just because a player is good, doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a good fit on every team. Mariners are looking to trade or bring in offense, what sense would they have in trading offense for pitching? to lose more 2-1 games?
Ackley posted a 2.7 WAR in limited action last year in just over half the season.. He’ll be a 5 WAR player.. In verlander you’d be gaining a 7 WAR pitcher.. is the extra 2 wins worth all the prospects and extra $ you are going to spend?
no.
Krrp Felix, keep Ackley whoever he is, me I’d rather the JaysputMcGowan in the 5 slot and leave the rest of the startersalone. TO has the best farm pitching depth in the MLB, why overpay for Felix? Seattle is losing with him, so Toronto can win without him.The bullpenkilled the Jays last year, 25 blown saves. It looks good now after AA blew it up.
You wouldn’t trade away a piece that could be replaced by trading other prospects for a guy who manhandles the Sox and Yankees?
Top nine prospects? That’s insane. You may as well ask for AA’s mom while you’re at it.
Felix is a great player, but he is just one pitcher. The Mariners would be nuts to pay him nearly $20m per year over ’12, ’13, ’14 while competing against the Angels and Rangers. Save the money now, pump it into the draft, get back a haul of prospects who can be tied to early long-term contracts.
But expecting nine players back in return for a $20m pa salary? Crazy. In fact, Felix suits most teams being where he is right now, doing no harm whatsoever in the AL West.
It was a tongue-in-cheek response not to be taken literally. Sort of a “if you want Felix, either you’re giving up Lawrie or the deal is out of your price range”.
Fair enough, but I’m still not sure that it’s reasonable to ask for Lawrie. Every team knows that he’s not only an important position player for the Jays, but a marketing dream.
There’s no shortage of high ceiling talent in the farm for the Mariners to rebuild around. Marisnick, Nicolino, Syndergaard and D’Arnaud, for example, have all had the ‘future all-star’ label pinned to them. Any trade for Felix ought to hurt, but shouldn’t be unreasonable. Losing Lawrie would just create another huge hole.
A hole that’s been plugged for, what, 45 games? It’s not like he’s an established star. He had a good month and a half in the major leagues. He plays a position the Mariners have zero depth in. If the Mariners are going to trade Felix, they’re going to need to get a future all star C and a future all star 3B, and two more high ceiling guys, of which pitching is the lowest need thanks to Pineda, Walker, Paxton, and Hultzen (among others).
Yes, but you can’t argue against Lawrie’s importance to the Jays on the basis that he’s only played 45 games, but then say that the Mariners need a future all-star 3B.
What the Mariners need are quite simply the best prospects they can pick up, almost regardless of position. It’s about building asset value rather than arbitrarily filling position checklists.
I should have said “possible” future stars. Lawrie and d’Arnaud are no guarantees.
One thing that the Jays are heavy on is pitching in the minors. But so are the Mariners. So without getting the hitters (and for Felix, we’re talking multiple best young hitters available), a deal would make no sense to the Mariners. It just happens that the Jays’ best young hitters are at positions the Mariners need, and therefore those would be the names Jack Z demands in return.
He’d probably consider trading his mom. AA’s after young controllable players anyway.
the mariners can continue to stay in 4th until the astros move to the AL West. then they can take their well derserved place as the first 5th place team in the AL West in this decade, and decades to come.
Ohnoez! You’re making fun of a team who is just as far away from contending as the Blue Jays.
oh, no. i’m making fun of a team that is complete tihs and the death cab for cutie fan who thinks any different.
what the heck is a tihs? And where do you get death cab for cutie fan? because they suck. Again, the Mariners are only as far away from the playoffs as the Blue Jays are.
your screen name is the name their latest single? they’re fans of the mariners too? anyways, the mariners are bottom feeders, the jays are not. that’s the difference.
.era sreniraM eht tahw si tihS
Yeah, it’s not the title of a Radiohead song. For sure. When was the last time the Jays were in the playoffs? Bottomfeeders. Also, the Mariners top prospects are higher than the Jays, they have multiple better pitchers than anyone currently in your organization. So there’s that.
niaga ytircoidem rof denitsed era syaJ ehT.
(see, I can do it too, only less crass than you)
prospect ratings are irrelevant. don’t bash my team because you’re team is worse. that’s all i’m saying. once your team performs at a mediocre level, intead of an absolutely tihs level, then you can say the M’s are as close as the jays. but they are not, so don’t bash the jays unless you can back up your franchise that hasn’t even won a world series, and will eventually go the way of the supersonics.
And yet the Mariners have been to the playoffs 4 times since the last time the Jays have, and in that time have had a season with 116 wins.
The Mariners organization was butchered from 2005-2008. Considering in 2008, we were pretty much the worst minor league system in the game and now we’re in the top 12 of so, I’d say the Mariners are heading in the right direction. With a payroll that has at times been 1.5x what the Jays have currently and guys blasting through our system and no behemoths who spend 200m in our division, I like our chances of getting to the playoffs again before you.
that’s ancient history, the mariners never did anything with any of those playoff appearances anyways.
your screen name is the name their latest single? they’re fans of the mariners too? anyways, the mariners are bottom feeders, the jays are not. that’s the difference.
.era sreniraM eht tahw si tihS
It’s a good debate. Who has the best prospects that meets the Mariners needs if it were only three teams involved(Jays/Yanks/Tigers)? Maybe the Royals at this point since they have the prospects and a talented roster and could sneak up in the standings soon. I can’t think of any other team outside of the Nationals that has the talent and motivation to land a pitcher like Felix. So out of 30 teams, I pick 5 that could be potential destinations. I do not think the Rangers would be a team considering its in division. I think if the call was made tomorrow that Felix could be had, it would really be the Jays or Yankees so I ask who is the better trade partner?
They could both be good trade partners for the right packages. Lawrie, Masrinick, Snydergaard, d’Arnaud, and maybe Carreno from Toronto or Montero, Banuelos, Bichette Jr., Sanchez, and Marshall from NYY.
In either scenario, the Mariners likely include someone like Liddi, Robinson, or Saunders.
I just dont see AA trading Lawrie, even for the ultimate ace.
And I don’t see Jack Z trading Felix unless it’s for a young talent who has had success at the major league level at a position of need. Pretty much the buck would stop at Lawrie and then a ton of high talent in the minors if the Jays want in on him.
Blue Jays fans I’ve talked with lately really don’t understand that to get a great player in a trade will hurt.
Agreed. It would be a significant expense for the Jays, but they could include Lawrie in a package for Felix and have Prince Fielder on notice and then sign him. It would be an addition of $40-$45mm in payroll, per year, for the next three years, but Fielder would also compensate at one end of the diamond for the loss in Lawrie. If the Jays where to get both Felix and Fielder right now, I’d argue they’d be the team to beat in the AL East and maybe even the entire AL provided Romero has an equally dominating season.
But it’s not like the Jays can’t afford raising the payroll by that amount. Toronto isn’t exactly a small town.
you’re creating another hole.
so fine now you have an ace, but with the downgrade at 3rd base you arent any better of a team..
look back to all the big trades of ace, almost all of them are strictly ace for prospects. Lawrie is no longer a prospect.
D’arnaud, Syndergaard, Marisnick, Hechavarria and Mcguire gets it done. easy.
Then neither was Alonso, and your point is moot.
Alonso wasn’t a prospect because they tried to force him into another position that he was terrible at just to get his bat in to the lineup
his true position, 1B he was blocked.
try using some context.
Maybe use context in your initial argument? You stated aces for prospects. Alonso isn’t a prospect. Who cares where he plays? He wasn’t a prospect. He was as much a prospect as Brett Lawrie or Dustin Ackley or Mike Moustakas or Desmond Jennings.
You want an ace for prospects and you’re considering Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos aces? Fine, Michael Pineda is an ace, too and you can forget about Felix.
thats just a blob of words with no meaning..
the point remains, that losing lawrie creates a hole at 3B. period. Alonso was blocked, which is why the reds moved him..
No team has ever acquired an ace while simultaneously creating another huge hole..
why? because if you acquire an ace, you will be deemed a win now team, but how can you win if you just created another hole.
its counter productive. the end.
I believe Alonso is still a prospect as he hasn’t had 130 at-bats.
Am I right to think you consider everyone who hasn’t achieved rookie status a prospect? The two have a difference of what, 45 plate appearances? 10-12 games?
Well, you said he is not a prospect which is not true as he is still is by definition.
Showmethedefinitionthatsayseverypre-rookieisaprospect,please.
And I don’t see Jack Z trading Felix unless it’s for a young talent who has had success at the major league level at a position of need. Pretty much the buck would stop at Lawrie and then a ton of high talent in the minors if the Jays want in on him.
Blue Jays fans I’ve talked with lately really don’t understand that to get a great player in a trade will hurt.
They could both be good trade partners for the right packages. Lawrie, Masrinick, Snydergaard, d’Arnaud, and maybe Carreno from Toronto or Montero, Banuelos, Bichette Jr., Sanchez, and Marshall from NYY.
In either scenario, the Mariners likely include someone like Liddi, Robinson, or Saunders.
It would be a mistake to think that the Rangers couldn’t get Felix. We match up very well with the M’s needs (outside of Catcher). I would bet all of my chips on the Rangers landing him. It would cost a premium within the division, but I don’t think JD would have a second thought about it.
you probably dont do darvish and felix.
That’s what I was thinking too. I think the Rangers made their move, regardless of retaining all their prospects this offseason. At this point they really need to focus on their line up looking into the next two years with Young getting older and Josh Hamilton a soon to be free agent. Hamilton is a dynamic player, but its a proven fact that athletes with previous substance abuse issues show early regression in playing time and physical health. I’m not knocking his character, but Hamilton could be a platoon/very good DH 2 years from now. It’s a what if, but an appropriate assessment of his situation.
That’s what I was thinking too. I think the Rangers made their move, regardless of retaining all their prospects this offseason. At this point they really need to focus on their line up looking into the next two years with Young getting older and Josh Hamilton a soon to be free agent. Hamilton is a dynamic player, but its a proven fact that athletes with previous substance abuse issues show early regression in playing time and physical health. I’m not knocking his character, but Hamilton could be a platoon/very good DH 2 years from now. It’s a what if, but an appropriate assessment of his situation.
I still think there’s room if he’s made available. The Rangers would never choose Darvish over Felix if they thought there was a realistic chance Felix would become available soon on the market.
They have the money, especially after the TV deal kicks in.
It’d probably take something like Profar, Olt, Martin, Perez, and one of the lower B prospect pitchers on Sickels’ list.
It’d probably take something like Profar, Olt, Martin, Perez, and one of the lower B prospect pitchers on Sickels’ list.
I think the chance of Seattle trading Felix within their division is zero to nil.
AA is bowling for nickels. Rogers is a massive Canadian corporation and as cheap as the day is long. I expect nothing of impact. “AA likes to talk”, says Jayson Frasor. Indeed.
so who would you have like to see him sign?
Cj Wilson took less money to go to the Angels, but he totally would have came here right??
you people are insufferable.
When we finish 4th again, you can read this again
and ask yourself who is insufferable. Sign Kuroda to a one year deal. Give us a chance to win 90 games this year.
Signing Free Agents isn’t like going to the store and picking something off the shelf
there has to be mutual interest.
AA plays dice for quarters. Anytime he rolls he would always hit a 7!!!!
Jurrjens is available if you guys have a deep farm system…
you can have eric thames and a box of flashback friday roy halladay jerseys… final offer.
Ahh, Flashback fridays, the days where Blue Jay players were forced to wear the “pajama” jerseys that they hated.. 😛
Ahh, Flashback fridays, the days where Blue Jay players were forced to wear the “pajama” jerseys that they hated.. 😛
Take back the Halladay jerseys and throw in TWO bottles of Molson Canadian, complete with instructions on how to drink them:
Step 1: Drink first Canadian
Step 2: Pass out
Step 3: Drink second Canadian to recover from hangover
Take back the Halladay jerseys and throw in TWO bottles of Molson Canadian, complete with instructions on how to drink them:
Step 1: Drink first Canadian
Step 2: Pass out
Step 3: Drink second Canadian to recover from hangover
I’m just one opinion, but I feel like Jurrjens value at the moment is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 1977 Volkswagen Beetle. It seems like that flyer made it to a lot of paper shredders this offseason.
I’m just one opinion, but I feel like Jurrjens value at the moment is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 1977 Volkswagen Beetle. It seems like that flyer made it to a lot of paper shredders this offseason.
Too bad the Pades didn’t take our package for Latos.
Really curious to what the offer might’ve been.
Anybody think Justin Masterson could be a guy AA is looking at? Not sure what he would cost, seems like a guy that could help thats flying under the radar. Not sure if cleveland would trade him but just something i was thinking about.
I doubt the indians would consider moving him, especially when he’s so cheap .
That and they just traded for Ubaldo.
I doubt the indians would consider moving him, especially when he’s so cheap .
Were doomed for yet another 4thnplace finish without another 1 or 2 proven starting pitchers!
I think both Drabek and Alvarez can become number 2 starters, so perhaps its better for AA to wait a season and sign one of the free agent aces that will likely be available next offseason.
The organization is peppered with arms in the minors. Unfortunately they are a year or two away…
Somewhere in the organization, there is a matt garza and a cj wilson… but theres no prince fielder..
the only justification for the jays not to sign fielder that i can come up with is that they so badly want votto and are willing to wait another year for the chance to trade for him.
combine this with having to overpay for a crappy defensive first baseman and having to sell low on lind….
its the only way i can justify not going crazy for PF
Votto’s still got 2 years left.. So much can happen between now and then
Even if AA did have the money to sign Fielder, he’d have to take pause. Imagine the dilemma if we were in his chair – an enormous $22m+ annual commitment to one player for nearly a decade, and one who will likely become a DH well before that contract is up. That’s to say nothing of the likely lack of team control (no-trade, opt-out clauses).
Balance that against an existing 1B with a bat that is due to return in Lind, the potential availability of Votto (as you said), and the numerous other uses for that money…and you’d be hard-pressed to pull the trigger.
Apparently, Fielder wants an opt out option in his contract, makes it better, doesn’t it?
Just a random question but does the draft budget limit in effect this upcoming draft?
Right……
Right……
Yup, Rangers front office is good but I think they are “runner ups” to Toronto Blue Jays front office. …IMO
no.
as a jays fan, i’ll take the FO thats been to the world series two years in a row.
Bear in mind that the Rangers have achieved that from within the AL West. That’s to take nothing away from their accomplishments, but a bit of handicapping has to be done when comparing front offices. It’s rarely even terrain.
Pound-for-pound they are probably on a par. It’s just about doing as much as you can with what you have. Nobody can question the Rangers’ effectiveness with their two WS appearances, but AA has also done a remarkable job in creating a top farm and a potential-packed roster with such little money and so few trade chips.
Pound-for-pound they are probably on a par. It’s just about doing as much as you can with what you have. Nobody can question the Rangers’ effectiveness with their two WS appearances, but AA has also done a remarkable job in creating a top farm and a potential-packed roster with such little money and so few trade chips.
Yup, Rangers front office is good but I think they are “runner ups” to Toronto Blue Jays front office. …IMO
rating pitchers based on their “average miles per hour of their fastball” is so absolutely pathetic that im laughing so hard over it. in the bigs it doesnt matter how hard you throw. theres far more important things to pitching in the majors than average velocity of your fastball. just ask joe zumaya. its a matter of executing your pitches, location, pitching to hitters weaknesses, not making mental errors, stamina, among others. just ask guys like jamie moyer, greg maddux, and tom glavine while all three of them are laughing their way all the way to Cooperstown when they hear about high avg velocity being the main aspect of successful pitching
Moyer in Cooperstown?
There’s no point giving up the farm for a pitcher just yet. Let’s see if McGowan can reclaim his old stuff, if Morrow’s refinements stick, if Drabek and/or Cecil can bounce back, if Alvarez is truly as good as he looked in 2011. Beyond that there is sure to be a dependable arm among Hutchinson, Carreno, McGuire and Jenkins. It could actually be a very strong rotation – will certainly be better than 2011 – and July is a much better time for wheeling and dealing.
perfectly said..
and everyone is sleeping on carreno, kids got legit stuff and put up some impressive numbers last year in new hampshire and did well in the pen for us.
now that frasors back he could move back in to a starting role.
Indeed. It will be a loss not to see him in the bullpen, but it will be a vote of confidence in his ceiling to have him work on his starts in AAA.
Funny thing is that for all the talk of Wilson and Darvish being ‘super twos’, the current Jays rotation could be packed from 1-5 with no. 2 pitchers. I’d bet on that outcome rather than a hotchpotch of inconsistency like 2011.
i agree. i think the jays should continue on the path they are on, unless they can land the big fish. stay away from the 2-3-4 pitchers.
true ‘dat. Start with Romero/Morrow/Cecil/Alvarez/McGowan with Drabek and Carreno starting in AAA, Hutch, McGuire, and Jenkins starting in AA. This is a pretty good year to finally evaluate Morrow/Cecil/McGowan, let them pitch, see if they put it together, and decide if they’re going to be long-term pieces. but damn, Alvarez is already a capable MLB pitcher at age 21 with only two pitches (well, his fastball has so much varied movement that it should count for a couple). Imagine what he could do if he could get a solid slider going to start wracking up Ks.
true ‘dat. Start with Romero/Morrow/Cecil/Alvarez/McGowan with Drabek and Carreno starting in AAA, Hutch, McGuire, and Jenkins starting in AA. This is a pretty good year to finally evaluate Morrow/Cecil/McGowan, let them pitch, see if they put it together, and decide if they’re going to be long-term pieces. but damn, Alvarez is already a capable MLB pitcher at age 21 with only two pitches (well, his fastball has so much varied movement that it should count for a couple). Imagine what he could do if he could get a solid slider going to start wracking up Ks.
so, 2012 projects:
Alvarez: develop slider, strike more out, keep being awesome
Carreno: less walks, also work on 3rd pitch – changeup to go with sinker/slider?
Morrow: keep working on cutter and circle-change, as he was later in the year to some success. Go deeper in games, be better in the stretch
Cecil: don’t be a fat-ass, keep your core strong and your velocity consistently in the low 90s. get a nice cutter (Farrell specialty) so you don’t have to rely so much on the inconsistent FB
Drabek: fastball command! stop trying to pick the bottom corners and missing – it worked in AA but the AL East won’t swing out of the strike-zone, and your pitches have enough movement that you can pitch in the zone and get GBs. Command the curveball. Blow a 96 MPH FB past batters up in the zone occasionally. take a valium and grow the hell up.
McGowan: keep your arms attached, pitch a full season, don’t walk everyone
so, in conclusion: let’s spend a year seeing if any of this happens. If yes, assets! pitching depth! If no, then we have a far more clear image of which pitchers are expendable or won’t live up to their potential (I’ll give Morrow another year, he’s getting old, but Cecil gets a few more). 2012 is an important transition year for a lot of guys
Blue Jay fans just need to be patient and not jump the gun. Many people are forgetting at what AA has done the last 2 and half years and he has put the Jays in a really good position for the future. They see all these big free agent and thinking we are just a couple of BIG FA away from the world series but the truth is we are still a couple of years away. AA never said we will be like the Yankees or the Red sox signing big free agent contracts but we will be like the Rays building the farm and maybe some day compete with salaries of over 100 million. It means being able to keep your allstars ( Ricky Romero, Bautista)
i kinda like derek holland for the jays, but i’m not sure theres a good fit between the jays and rangers.
i wonder if they would be interested in a jp arencibia. a superior option to torrealba, especially long term.
That sounds like a 2013 trade.. when the jays can afford to lose arencibia and the rangers can afford to spare holland.
yea i think i agree. too early to go all in with d’arnaud. plus i think they may want to see exactly where arencibia’s ceiling is before dealing him. i think he has more stick in him, and maybe more glove as well. he hit for average in the minors (minus the year after which he had corrective eye surgery) and with some babip regression, he could post a big year next year and substantially boost his trade value or his long term chances with the jays.
That sounds like a 2013 trade.. when the jays can afford to lose arencibia and the rangers can afford to spare holland.
Let’s think about this for just a second. You think/want Texas to trade a 25 yo lefty with sick stuff who ended up being a solid #3 in Texas last season (and is continuing to get better) and projects to be a #2 or even low end #1 if he hits full potential, for a package headlined by a guy who would be a backup catcher for us? What? If anything, Colby Lewis or Harrison would be the only ones considered for a trade, assuming JD really wants to trade away a sure thing #3-4 to gamble on a rotation featuring Feliz and a questionable Ogando in a division which now features a much improved Angels team. Which I doubt happens.
back up catcher?
i agree with your assessment of holland, but i think your assessment of arencibia is way off. arencibia already posted higher WAR in his rookie season than your starting catcher, a season in which he battled a wrist injury and a case of the low BABIP’s. considering he has (i believe) an extra year of control over holland and the rarity of solid starting catchers, i thought it would represent a decent move for both teams.
colby lewis isnt remotely as interesting as holland, and neither is harrison (although i like him more). i’m not sure either one of them profiles as anything more than mid-back enders long term, which AA already said he wasnt particularly interested in acquiring. if the rangers were really that concerned about the reliability of their rotation they should have resigned wilson rather than gamble on the more expensive and likely less effective darvish.
I really like JPA, but I love Holland. The Rangers aren’t in a position to trade pitching for bats.
JPA obviously loves our park. I was at that series where he hit 4 homers on us, but we have plenty of offense. I know JPA is a good defensive catcher and I would love to have him, but there just isn’t a fit right now.
Why are Jays fans talking about trading him anyway?
d’arnaud coming who projects to be better overall, especially defensively, than JPA.
JPA will probably be the jays strongest trade chip in the coming years, assuming d’arnaud surpasses him.
I most likely see JPA surpassing Lind at 1st…and Lind becoming trade bait….I still would like to see Fielder come to Toronto after he realizes the Nationals may be a good fit but not the best for him. Toronto IMO still seems like his best option as it is in the American League, he can DH half of the games and make his career longer by staying in the AL. I think in the longer run the Nats will hurt him ore than help him.
I find it bordering on laughable that Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports has anything to say about AA’s intentions with respect to a deal. Unless Rosenthall has become the oracle of MLB he will find out about AA’s next move at about the time as the rest of the twitterati.
Perhaps the fact that he really has no idea contributed to the insightful observation he advanced. “Blue Jays don’t appear to be especially interested in free agent right-handers Hiroki Kuroda, Roy Oswalt and Edwin Jackson”. When has it Alex ever done that. He identifies a target and acts.
I think Alex is still in on all pitchers currently available, but at his price. I am optimistic that Oswalt will come here (for a year to demonstrate to the American League as well that he should have a long term deal) in a shocking move reminiscent of …. well Alex Anthropolous. But if not!?
The team starting the year is still better than the one that started last year. Alex makes some of his most dramatic deals either in season (Escobaror/Rasmus) or just before season starts (Wells/Lawrie). So even if he does nothing til the start of the season he is the type of GM that can radically improve the ball clubs fortunes in season.
…what would Napoli been like with the Jays?
split time with jp
park is less hitter friendly
stronger division
A moot point if one believes that Napoli was dealt because of payroll considerations.
Which is a really silly belief seeing as the payroll that had just been shed via Wells….
…much of which was surely earmarked for projects such as contract extensions, draft spending, and unforeseeables (eg Teahen’s contract)
Looking at the payroll for 2011 for the Jays, I didn’t realize they were as tight on the purse-strings as they are. Is Toronto really a small market?
Big market, tight pursestrings (for now). As Ben tellingly pointed out, the Jays haven’t committed to $4m+ for any free agent since AA took command, and most savings appear to be reinvested in other internal projects.
IMO that’s fine for now. Still too many question marks. As much potential as there may be on the roster, there are far fewer locks than the ‘Big Three’ of the AL East have. But if the Jays do realise their potential, as many of us expect, and Rogers don’t take on the payroll…there can be no excuses.
I’d rather the Jays spend 30-40 or so million over the last two years on the draft and IFAs (a very rough estimate) than on any FAs. Also, doing the thing that defines what a small-market team is not: being able to resign your better players to reasonable contracts.
I’d rather the Jays spend 30-40 or so million over the last two years on the draft and IFAs (a very rough estimate) than on any FAs. Also, doing the thing that defines what a small-market team is not: being able to resign your better players to reasonable contracts.
Big market, tight pursestrings (for now). As Ben tellingly pointed out, the Jays haven’t committed to $4m+ for any free agent since AA took command, and most savings appear to be reinvested in other internal projects.
IMO that’s fine for now. Still too many question marks. As much potential as there may be on the roster, there are far fewer locks than the ‘Big Three’ of the AL East have. But if the Jays do realise their potential, as many of us expect, and Rogers don’t take on the payroll…there can be no excuses.
Napoli was dealt so the Jays could see what they had in JP.
Napoli was dealt so the Jays could see what they had in JP.
I’ve seen so man “Trade Lawrie” commets but I don’t think half these people have an idea with how much Jays fans LOVE Brett Lawrie. He’s a Canadian player with talent… if anything ASIDE from winning the playoffs brings in more fans… it’s an all star playing for his “home team”
The blue jays will be lucky to move up to third place in the AL East. Can the blue jays beat out the red sox, yankees, AND the Rays in the AL east? IF lawrie turns out to be a good player over the whole course of the season, IF the SPs other than Romero pitch well, IF the bullpen pitches well, and IF their other young guys like drabek and arencibia improve significantly (a TON of IFs especially considering most organizations are lucky to have one prospect pan out, much less three at the same time in drabek, lawrie, and arencibia), they have a chance to beat out ONE of the top 3, But to squeeze into the top two of the AL East? I just dont see that happening in the next several years. It sucks because the jays in any other division probably can contend to win that division. ALso, the Jays farm system is loaded but there arent any top of the line elite prospects. d’arnaud is considered the best prospect in the system now and hes not exactly an A grade prospect. The jays have a bunch of B+ prospects but none are quite in the top 20 range. In fact, the Rays and Yankees farm systems have been rated higher than the Jays system in the majority of publications i have seen. The point is, its better to have a couple of A prospects (i.e. Matt Moore/Jesus Montero) and a couple of B to B+ prospects (Banuelos, Betances, etc) than a bunch of B+ prospects like the Jays have. Bottom line is, the jays have a good team but not good enough to make the playoffs coming out of that division. the jays lineup is good but still not better than the red sox and yankees lineup. The yankees still have the best starting pitcher (CC) in the AL east and the best bullpen. The rays have the best overall rotation and the red sox with lester and beckett have just as good of a rotation as the jays do along with a better offense. Theres a reason the blue jays havent reached 90 wins in nearly 2 decades. the division is just too tough and even with the decent team the jays have, they probably wont finish higher than 3rd in the division. Whats changed in this past year that the results will be any different? I dont see it happening. The jays can go one of two ways. keep all their prospects and hope a couple of them turn into superstars and contend in 5 years (a long shot). or trade away their top prospects for a great player AND sign a couple of big name free agents in the next couple of years i.e. prince fielder, cole hamels, cain, etc. Until that happens (or until the jays somehow switch divisions), all this talk about the jays is pretty useless. They’re not making the playoffs any time soon.