The Blue Jays continue exploring ways of improving their rotation, but they’re unlikely to acquire Matt Garza from the Cubs, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Garza is under team control through 2013 and the Blue Jays are wary of trading top prospects for a relatively short-term addition. There doesn't appear to be a leading suitor for the right-hander at the moment, but the Yankees, Tigers, Red Sox and Marlins appear to be in the mix to acquire him.
The Blue Jays don’t appear to be especially interested in free agent right-handers Hiroki Kuroda and Roy Oswalt and they’re unlikely to pursue Edwin Jackson, Rosenthal reports. Agent Scott Boras seeks a five-year deal for Jackson, but Toronto GM Alex Anthopoulos has avoided major free agent expenditures since his hiring more than two years ago.
Toronto’s projected rotation includes Ricky Romero, Brandon Morrow, Brett Cecil and Henderson Alvarez. Dustin McGowan, Carlos Villanueva and Aaron Laffey are others who could compete for a rotation spot in Spring Training. The Blue Jays expect to consider prospects Kyle Drabek, Drew Hutchison, Deck McGuire and Chad Jenkins for promotions in 2012, Rosenthal writes.
music to my ears
update 7:45 PM: blue jays acquire matt garza
update 7:45 PM: Blue jays acquire
matt garzagio gonzalez from nationalsWhat a shame.
As long as he’s not a yankee I’m fine with it. Theo wants way too much.
Word! Montero, Banuelos AND Betances? No thanks, I wouldn’t even give that much up for King Felix!
Uhm, yeah you would.
yah he would.
I’d do that naked! – Mitch Williams
Then you’re crazy.
Yea…we definitely would.
most of us who follow the jays could have told you mgmt wouldnt part with multiple prospects for 2 yrs. of matt garza…these drabek,marisnick,gose + packages are REdonkulous.
i dont see them going after kuroda but i wouldn’t rule out Oswalt or Jackson albeit not for 5 years.
Marisnick, Nicolino, McGuire, and Snider is who I would have wanted but prospects would have had to go back as well.
maybe i over value those guys but that just seems like way too much vivid. those are 4 b to b+ guys. 2 years of control and an escalating salary make this type of return unreasonable for garza.
I would give em 2 of those guys w jenkins or cooper tacked on. feel free to disagree.
I agree it is too much on its own. Just kinda based on the hope that there actually was a falling out with Snider. I think we would have to send back someone like Jae Hoon Ha +1 to even it out.
i wouldnt trade those 4 for the whole cubs team
Really, are we going to start this again? Garza and Castro are worth that plus.
My brain phased out “unlikely”, sigh. On to the Tigers I suppose.
The link for Chad Jenkins goes to the wrong player…
You’re not missing anything.
lol
Yea, I am pretty sure that Toronto would love to swap the two as well…
Good, keep him out of the AL East, former pitchers turn into studs when they face us. Please drop out now, Boston and New York.
*top prospects.
Garza would be a nice addition, but I agree that giving up a premium package is too much for him, particularly after what The Cubs got him for.
We overvalue our prospects. Drabek is not proving to be what he was promised to be for example. The difference between a Garza and prospects are that Garza is proven in the AL East, including the regular season.
The prospects that Theo is asking for might be a bit much, but that is what it takes to compete these days. Anyone who doesn’t see the reality of baseball in the 21st century is deluding themselves into believing that it can be any different.
Put it this way, Tampa Bay has yet to win a World Series. Name the last World Series team that didn’t have at least 2 major star players on their team?
Evan, Shields and Price make 3. Because you said “major stars”, I didn’t list Hellickson, Joyce, Zobrist or the year Farnsworth had.
It’s not 2 elite players over, its at least 2 from the rotation and the lineup and that’s the Rays issue, they only have 1 star in the lineup.
Don’t you worry about Drabek. Roy Halladay age 23: -3.2 WAR
He’ll figure it out, I hope.
I am with you on that one! So is every Jays fan, or even fan in general. Drabek has the raw stuff, but just can’t seem to pull it together yet. I don’t think we will ever see AA make a trade with Drabek.
You want the Jays to move Drabek like they moved Chris Carpenter???
Kyle Drabek is 24 years old. I’m not ready to conclude he’s a flop as of yet. We know the story with Halladay.
Giving up a good package for two years of Garza is ridiculous.
I think the comparisons to halladay are completely unfair to drabek. They’re so different.
Romero then, wasn’t that long ago he was the biggest draft bust we ever had.
Drabek dominated in the minors, Romero struggled..
I fail to see the comparison other than the fact they both stand on a mound.
Clay Buchholz comparison might be more appropriate. But, I get your point.
I’m excited to see Henderson, and even McGowan in the rotation next year. How would Jays fans feel about a Drabek for Rizzo swap, then signing an Oswalt or EJax for the rotation?
Drabek is untouchable.. and not untouchable in the good sense, but untouchable in the, it would be silly to sell low on him.
I doubt Oswalt comes to Toronto. would be nice though..
Jays fans would be happy with that maybe….
However, I would be disappointed, because Rizzo and Oswalt could have really…….. the Orioles!!! =P
I will let you fill in the blanks.
Wait, wait! Let me guess! The opposite of improve? 🙂
NO! Jays pulled this last year, stay away from Rizzo! You guys stole all our off season targets and then you stole Colby Rasmus. Just because you have money, you think you can get anyone. Oh wait…. you’re right. Moving on.
drabek for rizzo i like, not crazy about signing oswalt or jackson though. jackson at the right price, but oswalt has no use, and he’s outlived his usefulness as a pitcher. i think that rizzo would be good for the jays because we can develop him and we have a bevy of pitching prospects so we can afford to lose drabek. i can see it working out for the padres too, he’d be good for filling in latos’ spot. i still like drabek a lot. if he can get his control together, he still has a chance to be a decent pitcher.
This is hilarious. You Blue Jays fans don’t want to trade a single prospect for major league upgrades. Understandably, Gose D’Arnaud and Marisnick are keepers – but NOT all of these pitchers are going to work out. You should be willing to trade 2 of em for Garza.
your post is hilarious. given that you don’t know what the cubs are asking for.
The Cubs aren’t asking for pitching?
Right, good luck waiting for Hutchinson, McGuire, Nicolino, Sanchez, Norris, Synndergard, etc. to ALL pitch int he Jays rotation.
My point is that you HAVE to be willing to give up a couple of them to get a pitcher of Garza’s quality.
How quickly we forget the Jays traded Nestor Molina already. While the Jays do have a wealth of pitching prospects, trading them now won’t put the Jays in the playoffs in 2012.
Nestor Molina didn’t rank in the top 10 Jays prospects when he was traded. The trade was good for both teams as Chicago has Addison Reed coming up to fill the slot that Santos left, and they receive a potential rotation pitchers in Molina.
The Jays have pitching depth, trading some of it away to get Garza is not going to decimate the farm.
Sickels had Molina rated as our 2nd best prospect..
a bit aggressive, but every scout had molina in the top 10. so try again.
Um, Jim Callis of BA said Nestor Molina would rank around #18 in the Jays system this year.
and when was that released?
Molina took a huge step forward in 2011.
Yep…Callis tweeted it. It was a response to a question.
He tweeted it after the trade for Santos.
He would have been #18 on the Jays list if he had not been traded to the White Sox.
there’s no way..
I have a pretty good knowledge of the jays system and I can think of 17 names ahead of him
I’m glad you think there’s no way. But the fact remains that your statement that apparently every scout thinks Molina is a top 10 guy is wrong.
you dont have the new information to prove this
there’s no way..
I have a pretty good knowledge of the jays system and I can think of 17 names ahead of him
He tweeted it after the trade for Santos.
He would have been #18 on the Jays list if he had not been traded to the White Sox.
Yep…I saw it on twitter. He responded to a question on where Molina ranks in Jays’ prospect list.
Baseball America had him ranked 10-20 in the Jays system, so try again. He hardly ranked higher in the system than Gose or d’Arneau at any time.
Take some time to really learn who is in the system before making outrageous statements like the one you just did. It makes you sound silly and not terribly knowledgeable.
As a RHP with a fastball projected between 88-92mph he is a #4 or #5 starter at best! It was a good pickup by Chicago, but it didn’t take from the Jays top 10 prospects.
I find it extremely humorous that the same guy who is telling me I sound silly continues to call travis d’arnaud, d’arneau
you’re looking at out dated rankings, nestor molina took a huge step forward in 2011. and while I agree I wouldn’t rank him top 5, he was definitely top 10.
It’s his ipad’s problem!
Seriously on about spelling? That’s your best? Please provide a link to a top 10 ranking for Molina in the Jays system?
Again, not one reputable baseball analysis had Nestor Molina ranked in the top 10 when he was still in the system. He had a good run out of his 5 years in the Jays system that AA was able parlay into a package for Santos, but he never projected that high with any scout in the system.
The main reason that the trade was made was because Paddy moved from the Jays system to the ChiSox and make the recommendation as the team is looking for ways to cut payroll while doing a complete rebuild.
Not sure where you are getting your information from, but I can’t verify what you are saying on ESPNi or BA
John Sickels from Minor League Ball had Molina rated #2 on his November 30th ranking. An aggressive ranking – but go to the Minor League Ball website & check it out.
The guys you want traded have the potential to be all-stars. You lament losing Chris Carpenter and yet you want to trade a player who will be better.
exactly, why is that so hard for some people to understand
did i suggest otherwise..
but how do you know that the cubs aren’t asking for syndergaard, hutchinson, gose and marisnick??
you don’t know, which makes your criticism silly.
We don’t, which is likely why the Jays are out of the running.
This offseason is a strange one though. With Boston and New York trying to ensure that they are below luxury tax by 2014, and so many other teams trying to develop their teams through the farm, Theo has to know that no one is going to trade 40% of their blue chip prospects for Garza, unless it is at the trade deadline and Garza offers a true chance at a WS run.
It doesn’t make my criticisms silly. But please don’t tell me that this years Jays are going to be sniffing anything but 4th place, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them dead last in the AL East in 2012. At that point, when do fans start realizing that to compete, then ownership has to spend money… and whoever keeps talking about JP as an example knows nothing. It is not a fair comparison. I prefer the late 80s and 90s with a combination of development and top free agent signings. JP just signed big contracts without the base.
I think that 2 years of Garza now + a contract extension in 2014 make for a very solid nucleus of a team that is learning how to win and knows how to grind out through the post season in 2014 when the Jays might just be there to compete. Not improving the rotation now just seems to be more of the same old. I hope at least they don’t insult me with a Hustle and Heart 3.0 and Beastmode 2.0 while we post a worst record than the previous season.
Last year we watched over a dozen jo jo reyes starts, we watched juan rivera, jose bautista at 3rd, corey patterson batting second and playing cf, rajai davis leading off, jon rauch closing, first 1/2 francisco closing, villanueva starting and the ghost of aaron hill at 2b .. and still finished with 81 wins..
and before you say but ya and list possible regressions.. really only 2 players are regression candidates, bautista and romero (maybe lawries pace, but he’ll still be better than third base overall last year).
and then i got a chance to watch jo jo with the orioles because they were freakin DESPERATE…just kicking reyes off your staff helps big time
Are you kidding? The free agent signings in the 80s were a failure. Try to remember Bill Caudill.
Only when the team evolved through home grown talent and smart trades were they able to sign good free agents to good contracts (Dave Winfield, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, etc).
This required patience. The current Blue Jays have to evolve a couple of more years to get even close to this stage.
And the Braves should let up on some of them pitchers as well then!!
You know the fans do not make the trades right?
Obviously the Cubs want more than 2 mid level pitching prospects for Garza.
They probably asked for a sky high price, one that no club is willing to pay.
No kidding, but most Jays fans have unrealistic expectations of the prospects because they have not followed them beyond the hype they read on team friendly blogs and the occassional story on TSN about the player.
Most of us fans follow prospects as they’re drafted and how they progress through the minors. Some of us actually go to New Hampshire to watch some of the exciting prospects coming up.
If AA starts trading away some of his many arms don’t you think that leaves even less chance of the few that actually make an impact at the major league level? Why would you want to decrease your odds just to acquire a mid rotation pitcher?
sure, mcguire and jenkins…..why trade anyone better because as it stands only adding garza isnt going to get us in the playoffs.
What about Jeff Francis why does no one ever mention him I think he could help them
Jeff Francis is terrible at pitching.
But he makes a mean omellete.
I have no idea why…but I believe you.
This gives Francis the edge in my comparison to Cecil. The only thing Cecil is good at in the kitchen is cutting his fingers in a blender.
Because the Jays have the good version of Jeff Francis in Brett Cecil, and that says more about Francis than it does Cecil.
Good. A ransom for a guy w/ 2 years control just doesn’t make sense. No thanks.
You realize that any good and proven pitcher has this profile?
What do you think would be fair in a trade for Romero? He is the only pitcher we have that comes close to Garza in dependability.
I think a trade that includes Snider, Syndergrass + a couple of Hi-A type prospects looks like a very fair trade for 2 years of someone like Matt Garza who would easily be a number 2 on the Jays rotation.
Yeah, send Syndergrass packing. We only do turf up here.
It’s hard to take you seriously if you’re calling Syndergaard, Syndergrass.
I like Garza a lot. If he were under control for 4 years, than I’m much more interested in parting with a few high end guys. But w/ 2 years – no thanks. That’s unrealistic.
And besides, no one knows exactly what the Cubs are demanding, other than it’s said to be very, very high. Rumor is that they’re asking the Yanks for 2, maybe all three of Banuelos, Betances & Montero – which is ludicrous. Garza is good…but he’s not remotely close to King Felix.
iPad keeps changing the spelling of Syndergaard… but please, that’s just weak.
If it was 4 years of Garza with the exact same profile, he would be worth that price, but Theo must be smoking some of that high end North Side crack now to be expecting Montero+.
The Yankees don’t need Garza as much as they do Jesus.
they definetly need Jesus on there side!!!
People who complain about typos when they know exactly what the person is saying are some of the most annoying people to walk the face of the earth.
Complaining about your i-pads spell-check – #firstworldproblems
You wanna toss aside a prospect in a trade? Get the kids name right.
I didn’t know you wrote the rules of Armchair GM
It’s true. I did write the rules. Google it.
Meanguygary + armchair gm + Metallica + coleslaw + Justin Timberlake.
That search ought to do it.
His name is meanguygary for a reason.
Yep…giving up Syndergrass is much better than giving up Syndergaard.
You don’t even know what you are giving away! LOL
Blue Jays fans need to realize that Matt Garza has pitched in a pitcher friendly park when he was in Tampa Bay from 2008 to 2010. Check out his home/away splits during those years. Yes, he did pitch in the AL East, but he was also pitching in a pitchers’ park, hence the good numbers.
hah! I was just reading your article on b/r
what good numbers?
And he plays in a hitter friendly park now. What’s your point?
career year or random variation. His 3 years as a Ray (and even his numers as a Twin) were nothing special
Hurray! this means Garza is staying a Cub!
With Red Soxs talent in A ball,
The Yankees not willing to give up Montero and the 3 B’s,
Flordia’s talent already MLB ready or in A/AA
And Detroit not willing to give up some guys ex: Turner.
The Jays were the only team with enough prospect Debt to make a Trade for Garza. And sense there out on him, i smell a extension coming!
whose the 3rd B on the yankees? betances, banuelos and..?
Brack…man I forgot he signed with the Reds.
Did that ever become official? Last I heard Jocketty didn’t know what the hold up was.
I belive the 3rd is Andrew Brackman.
Looks like you missed another article. Yankees cut Brackman and he signed with the Reds.
What are you talking about? Detroit has made it known they are willing to deal Turner.
Missed that artical, thanks for the info
No way. I think Garza’s definitely moving, the only question being for what and to whom. Theo wants to blow up the Cubs and that makes sense. My guess is it’ll be the Tigers for Turner & 1 other guy.
thank god
I think AA and Jay fans alike love Henderson Alverez and the Cubs probably demanded that he was part of the trade. That’s my best guess.
Or Syndergaard. I’m sure he’s the closest thing to untouchable.
Its true, we do love Alvarez, his mid 90’s sinker is ridiculous, it has huge run on it to both sides of the plate which Henderson controls at will and it should be even better next year once he tunes up that slider of his to drop more away from the righties, which with his change that eats up lefty swingers, will make it downright unfair for any hitters going against him.
Honestly, wait till nexts years Free Agent crop to see who we can get.
The smart move would be to sign a one year type, if they are afraid to give up prospects in a trade. The trouble with AA is that he will do neither. Kuroda is a great pitcher, load him up for one year.
Tomorrow’s Garza news: Yankees Unlikely to Acquire Garza
Royals fan here. I get Toronto doesn’t want to trade top end prospects especially muliple ones. It wouldn’t be smart to. Royals fans feel the same way about thiers.
At what point do you guys go out and trade prospects? It seems like now might be a good oppurtunity to jump on New York and Boston because they are both trying to get things back together. Those teams play in a huge market in terms of money and your oppurtunity going forward is not going to get much better except when you have some more controllable players come up. You guys haven’t made the playoffs for almost 20 years now. What makes you think your chances in this market are going to get better going forward? New York has a couple high end talent coming up, so do the Rays, Boston isn’t to shabby either. Roy Halladay never pitched in a playoff game for you guys. By the time your players are contributing Jose Bautista will be past his prime hitting wise.
What years are you guys targeting to compete? Enlighten me Blue Jay fans.
I get your point, but why make a stupid, one-sided trade when you’re only garaunteed to have the guy for 2 years? People like to say: ‘you have a bunch of prospects’ – but all of those guys have been pretty significant value in that the team has invested huge amounts of cash & resources to acquire them. You have to factor in what it costs to scout & develop these players…they’re far not worthless, ‘just another guy’ type players being requested here.
why don’t you call alex and ask him.
The fan base here is very willing to drink the kool-aid of the never ending rebuild, as long as there is a new face selling the drink with the next iteration. JP was considered a genious for quite some time as well. Now it’s AA.
You are bang on with the Halladay remark as he stated that he was willing to stay if the Jays were willing to put together a contender. Obviously that wasn’t happening, as the Jays went through the 4th rebuild since 93. If you look at some of the players that have been through the Jays system it would make some fans hair curl. Chris Carpenter, Roy Halladay, Shannon Stewart, Carlos Delgado, Jayson Werth… etc.
AA is trying to build a system that will turn out prospects for the foreseeable future, so that he won’t have to blow it up and keep rebuilding. Look at some of the most successful franchises coming up like Texas and Tampa, who it seems keep coming up with hard throwing pitchers year after year. That is what AA is trying to accomplish so he won’t have to rebuild the core like the Yankees are going to have to do in a bit.
It’s genius if you ask me. Why build for a couple of years when you could be in contention every year? I’m sure the Rangers and the Rays love it. If you build for one year then that’s all you get. If you cater to the demands of one player, then you’re no worse than listening to the fans. You know the saying “if you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting right up there with them”.
How can you actually bemoan Chris Carpenter & Jayson Werth?? Great players today – sure. But at the time, neither of those guys were like the players they eventually became.
The team had high hopes for Chris Carpenter but he also had an injury that was very, very severe. An injury that at the time was considered nearly fatal for a pitcher. He turned down a minor league incentive laden deal & thus chose to become a free agent.
Jayson Werth? C’mon. If you’re going to be critical of the Blue Jays for that than certainly you’ll do the exact same for the Orioles & Dodgers. I guess teams should just hold onto guys forever & ever & ever – even if they show nothing or can’t stay healthy.
This sort of hindsight / revisionist history is absurd and there’s not a team in MLB that doens’t have similar ‘coulda shoulda woulda’ stories.
JP was brought in to cut spending. His promise to ownership was “more wins for less money”. Signing draft picks was the first place he slashed the budget.
Don’t confuse this with a rebuild.
I tuned out the Jays at this stage because it was easy to see where this was heading when you starve the team of future talent.
I tuned back in when AA took over. You can see the aggressiveness in rebuilding the future talent.
Only a simpleton will try to beat the Yankees by outbidding them on free agent talent. You have to beat them in baseball operations.
Maybe it is time you start following a different team.
2013 probably, why dont the royals go trade their top prospects for garza then? been a while since kc won too huh, garza would fix that.
Yeah you are right we could do that, but it doesn’t benefit us that much at all only lose some of our best controllable prospects. Our situation is a lot different then the Jays. We don’t have to compete with the Yanks, Rays, and Red Sox. You guys do.
All the teams in the AL Central the Royals might easily be able to pass in the coming years thats the difference. The Twins and White Sox are going downhill. Kind of questionable where Cleveland will be in the near future, but I think the Royals stack up well with them or better. Detriot will probably remain near the top unless injuries or performance slow down for Cabrera and Verlander. Once that happens they will go down quickly.
The Royals are basically still trying to find out what they have with thier own pitchers first. Not to mention we had a down year so some of prospects don’t have the same value as last year. We would be selling low. We don’t have to do anything until 2013. I think if we don’t land a top starter next winter I could see us making a trade for a starter. The Royals have time on thier side, but the Jays don’t. It really helps that none of the teams in our division really have amateur players that matchup with us.
I may be wrong but isn’t Brandon Webb a Free Agent? I know he signed a one year contract with Texas last year and had surgery in early August and may be still recovering but if I were the Jays GM I’d take a chance on him he may come at a low price for coming off an injury riddled season and could be a great middle of rotation pitcher if healthy.
Also, I don’t understand why the Jays don’t try and get Edwin Jackson. He is only 28 and if the Jays could get him to pitch the way he did for Detroit a few years back he could be their 2 guy and at worst he is a 3-4 guy behind Morrow And Romero.
This is news? Anyone following this team who is not a baseball dinosour could have told you this weeks ago.
Thats a weak starting rotation……they need a stud to follow Romero. You just don`t know what Morrow will show up start to start.
I think it’s great that Theo and Hoyer are sticking to their guns. In this market, Garza has a remarkable amount of value. If teams don’t want to pay the price for him, fine, the Cubs should keep him. Period. I don’t think it would hurt the Cubs that much to have Garza for one more year. These teams that are one starting rotation arm giving them 200-220 innings of above average to elite production from making the playoffs or the one fine starting pitcher from getting into or winning the world series can spit for all I care.
He is the Cubs number one trade chip and if they let him go for some weak a*$ package, it would do far more to cripple the Cubs rebuilding efforts than would just keeping him.
they r not going to sign anyone good 🙁
Why is Oswalt still on the market? I understand he is getting older but his numbers are still good and he is willing to sign for 1 year. He seems like the best pitcher on the market by far to me. Can someone explain he detractors, is he coming off an injury?
Yeah, bad back.
Is it reasonable to believe theo will be a pal and not deal anyone with the yanks out of respect for the nation?
If the Yankees offer the best prospects, I’d like to think Theo would do what’s best for the Cubs.
I highly doubt the Red Sox have Theo’s best interest in mind as they go about their off season.
Would much rather have Floyd – be much less costly and isn’t as far from Garza in terms of quality
he isn’t the true #2 that Darvish or Garza could have been, to slot in behind Romero, but he’s solid enough that a Romero-Morrow-Floyd-Cecil-McGowan, with Alvarez (who is still a baby) working on his slider/SO numbers in the minors, rotation looks nice enough.
but, for what it’s worth, I think Garza to Det makes a tonne of sense. Probably not going to get Porcello or Turner, which would be ideal for the Cubs, but 2 of Crosby, Smyly, or Oliver, a toolsy guy like Avisail Garcia, and, hell, why not a bullpen guy like Luis Marte
but with the reported asking prices for Garza, he’s not going anywhere fast
when was jp ever called genious lol get your facts straight man…JP was not liked or respected in T.O…..he was ran out of town. the only person who was dumber than JP was the man who took so long to fire him.
jp wasn’t that bad. he never got us anywhere, but he did leave us with jose, and lawrie indirectly by drafting marcum
I love how many Jays fans treat JP like an idiot. Apparently if your team is mediocre in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox you’re a moron.
Best Jays update of this off-season. I am looking forward to a more determined Drabek this year and I am really curious to see what Deck McGuire looks like – the future is looking pretty good for the Jays.
wat are jays planning to do
only one option left…..jurjjens. i think AA will get him.
please no.
have you ever thought that Kuroda might want a multi year deal?
well this is good to hear. unless you really believe the 2011 garza is here to stay even with a move back to the AL East, you can get an equally effective edwin jackson for more years of control and not give up any prospects. not that thats not going to happen either, i believe AA already said he didnt see the point in acquiring mid-back end SP’s.
i think we know by now that if AA makes a move, he usually goes off the board and keeps it dead quiet. i think he’s leaning towards targets more in the mat latos vein vs. gonzalez or garza.
prospects are prospects, they are not proven and alot of them flop at the end
and why lower the chances even further by trading guys who could potentially be stars in a year or two for 2 years of Garza?