The Marlins and Mets may be the last two contenders remaining in the Jose Reyes sweepstakes, and the Marlins "hopes are high" that they will land the free agent shortstop, reports CBSSports.com's Scott Miller (passed on by his CBS colleague Matt Snyder). Another baseball source tells Miller, "everyone seems to think Reyes is the right fit for the Marlins."
The Braves, Giants and Phillies are out of the bidding, according to SI.com's Jon Heyman, with the Brewers and Tigers seen as "iffy" or very unlikely candidates by Heyman and CBSSports.com's Danny Knobler. So, unless a fringe suitor like the Red Sox get involved, it may be down to just the two NL East rivals.
Miami has offered Reyes a six-year deal worth somewhere between $70MM and $90MM, and Heyman tweets the Marlins could "bump it a bit" and then set a deadline since the offer has been on the table for a while. Even with the apparently thin market for Reyes, this kind of hardball tactic could backfire on the Fish since it could allow the Mets or another team to jump into the bidding at a lower price. The Marlins have openly targeted many top free agents this winter but this high profile only increases the pressure on the club to actually sign at least one or two of these big names.
The Mets are apparently willing to offer a five-year, $80MM contract. GM Sandy Alderson told reporters today (including MLB.com's Anthony DiComo) that he wasn't aware of any teams besides Miami in the hunt for Reyes and that he was planning to meet with Reyes' agents before or during the Winter Meetings. That lack of a sixth year in the offer could ultimately hurt the Mets, even though their offer would give Reyes a larger average annual value than the Marlins' deal, presuming Miami's offer is six years/$90MM. Maybe a sixth year on a vesting option could bring Reyes back to New York.
Meh Marlins fans, doesn’t have the same appeal as an Albert Pujols. Stick to Alfredo Amezuezahgala
Why would any team want to actually sign a guy who’s age is unclear to a nine year contract? If your the Cardinals it makes sense cuz you know you already have a winning product, but its no coincidence that there are only three teams actually bidding to sign him right now despite being the best player in the game right now.
three teams? I only thought it was Miami and St. Louis…who’s the third team?
The Cubbies are reported to be interested in both Fielder and AP
I’d take Fielder first, honestly. The Cubs SUCK at getting a productive lefty bat, and he’d take fewer years and less money annually, and he’s a tad younger. I’d prefer to have the defense of Pujols, but not the cost of an extra 2 years and $5 million/year.
Its okay for the Cardinals to sign him to a huge deal because they know hes a winning product, but its not okay for another team to because they dont know if they’re going to be a winning product?
So you’re saying if the Yankees or RedSox didnt already have a first baseman, then they STILL wouldnt sign Pujols? It comes down to more than just being skeptic, it comes down to big league money and a need for a first baseman.
The winning product is the Cardinals roster with Albert Pujols as their first baseman. Are you aware at all that they just won the World Series?
You put Pujols on a lot of teams and theres a lot of winning products.
I’m pretty sure 100% of the people that visit this site know that the Cardinals just won the World Series.
You’re right, why would anyone want to sign Albert Pujols. Geez, no wonder Miami sports is a mess.
Playing with heart and grit > Winning.
That’s Hanley ball right there.
Yeah…THAT’S why he got benched. Too much heart and grit. It wasn’t dogging it and being a child.
Pfft.
Idk, ask one of the 27 mlb teams who aren’t trying to sign him. This isn’t basketball, one man doesn’t make a team a winner in baseball.
Pretty sure you can make that argument for every sport that involves more than one person on a team.
Not really. The Cavs (61-21 with Lebron, 19-63 without) and the Colts (10-6 with Manning last year, winless so far this year without him) have done a remarkable job of proving definitively that one man can make a team a winner in both the NBA and NFL.
So with that logic, Jon Kitna is on Peyton Manning’s level? He was 7-9 with the Lions in 2007, in 2008, in the 12 games Kinta didn’t start they were 0-12. Unless Peyton plays D too, and stops the other team from scoring, it takes more than one person to make a winning team no matter how you look at it. (Listen to your little league coach “Theres no “I” in team”)
You’re comparing apples to oranges. The Lions were a bad team to being an even worse team. The Colts went from being a great team to the worst team in the NFL after losing one major guy, so yeah, one man can, in fact, make a team, if you build the team around that one guy. Conparatively, look at the 2008 Patriots, they lost Brady but still wound up almost making the playoffs.
And I notice you don’t address the Lebron situation.
Yea but you said “one guy can make a team a winner in both the NBA and NFL” and all I’m saying is that you need more of everyone doing their individual jobs. Put Manning on the 08′ Lions and you will still have a losing season, because they had literally the worst D in the NFL. The pieces around you are just as important as that one star athlete. But, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Ok, I’d say 22 teams AT LEAST couldn’t even legitimately afford to sign Pujols and pay a passable contender. The ones who COULD are:
Yankees
Mets
Red Sox
Cubs
White Sox (fringe)
Dodgers (if they got sold)
Angels
Phillies
So, let’s see…Yankees have Teixeira. Red Sox have Gonzalez AND Youkilis. Mets have Ike and money issues. White Sox have Dunn, Konerko, AND a full payroll. Dodgers need sold and just paid Kemp while needing to pay Ethier and Kershaw. Angels have Trumbo AND Morales. Phillies have a cash-strapped pyroll with guys like Lee, Halladay, and Utley, PLUS Howard signed for the rest of his natural life.
That covers 7 of those 8 teams. You add the Cards because they NEED him for ticket sales and have shown a willingness to add payroll to fit him in. That leaves just two NL Central rivals: Cubs and Cardinals. Miami/Florida can’t afford him, as much as they want to lie.
It’s a lack of suitors with the free 1B/DH spot, not lack of teams that like him.
Baseball is a massive, highly profitable business. Every team in baseball could afford to sign Pujols. Few teams in baseball could afford to fit him into their budget because no owners would be willing to make less money. Winning < Profit.
Fair enough, sort of.
I honestly don’t think the Rays could possibly afford Pujols with their lack of attendance, same with the pre-2012 Marlins and A’s, maybe a few others.
HOWEVER, it is extremely silly to say that Pujols’ age is to blame for the lack of interest when team profits are the real cause.
If a team could afford him without substantial profit loss and it had the roster spot, said team would pursue. However, due to cost and alternative players, the market is narrowed.
That does NOT mean Pujols’ age is in-question and that’s keeping people from trying to get him, like the person originally suggested.
Says the Atlanta sports fan.
I don’t see how this applies to what he is saying. What team wouldn’t WANT Pujols on their roster? If the Yankees didn’t have Teixeira and the Red Sox A-Gon, there’s no doubt that they’d both be courting Pujols like a king this offseason. He’s a once in a decade-kind of talent.
Really? We KNOW David Ortiz is old as crap, and he’s still been mentioned (not necssarily legitimately-linked) to the Red Sox (obviously), Yankees (HIS words), Baltimore, and Toronto.
Even if Pujols was 33/34, not 32, would you rather have him or Ortiz? Pujols still hits with the best of the best of the best of them, runs a little, and plays solid defense.
Yes, I know it’s an exaggerated comparison because Pujols is much better and much more costly (in years and annual salary), but the point is the same:
Pujols’ lack of suitors is based less on age and more on cost. Most teams just can’t afford him (Marlins, Pirates, etc.) or don’t need him (Red Sox, Yankees, White Sox, Angels).
Seriously, if Teixeira and Gonzalez were to both retire today, do you honestly believe the Red Sox and Yankees wouldn’t call Dan Lozano 65 times in an hour?
Giving Pujols a massive contract makes sense because the reality of the financial side of baseball is not dollars spent divided by production, which is the way we all look at baseball. To the Marlins, they have to consider how much their franchise will be worth in the future. If they give Pujols $200 million will their franchise be worth $200 million more in 20 years? 50 years? I have to think that it would. Very few athletes are worth that kind of money to a team, and not every team can increase their actual value by adding that type of player, but the Marlins are in a massive market with huge potential for growth. Of course just adding a bunch of big names and hoping for huge growth right now is what they are trying to do, and if they are patient it will work. They need to put more butts in the seats, but the truth is baseball fandom is generational. More butts in the seats right now means way more than that in 50 years, if they can see past a need to win it all right now and just be satisfied that they are growing. Yankees fans are Yankees fans because their grandpas were Yankees fans. How much would the Yankees be worth if Babe Ruth, Joe Dimaggio and Mickey Mantle played for the Orioles? This is a sport with very few actual superstars. Will people still talk about someone like Mark Teixeira or Prince Fielder in 50 years? I doubt it. Will people still talk about Albert Pujols in 50 years? You better believe it.
You can almost tell that the Marlins are new to this whole “free agency” concept.
Almost? They’re pretending they’ve sold tickets they don’t have and made their first BIG splash by signing a 34-year-old closer when they don’t even have the rotaiton or offense figured out.
Start with the 9th inning. The other 8 will slove themselves.
“The Braves,are out of the bidding, according to SI.com’s Jon Heyman,”
WOAH WOAH WOAH STOP RIGHT THERE HEYMAN
WE WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO SIGN REYES? OH FRANK WREN YOU SNEAKY DEVIL, I LOVE YOU FOR TRYING AT LEAST <3
If the Marlins sign Reyes, I see more big guys like Buerhle, Wilson, heck, maybe even Fielder or Pujols having at least a bit more interest in playing for them.
If they sign Reyes, they’re also likely out of money. MAYBE Buehrle, but not the others.
Oh no doubt. Not that i’m complaining.
Cardinals will be in the mix if Pujols walks. Not a likely scenario (nor one I, as a Cardinal fan, would enjoy), but tough to rule out the possibility.
Thing about that logic is that there’s little chance that Pujols signs before Reyes does.
Agreed, but if the market is as down on Reyes as it seems, I don’t see him taking a compromise offer; the logical conclusion is that he’d wait the market out to find a better suitor if he is not finding the 9-figure deal he is looking for.
brewers need to offer some of what would be prince’s money to reyes
They could, but who knows? They could go after Rollins and a setup/closer like Madson instead. We’ll see.
Well if it’s just down to the Mets and the Marlins I see Jose choosing the Mets in the end.
If the Mets and Marlins offered the same amount of money and Jose took the Marlin’s offer… How would you feel, and who would you blame.
If the offers are exactly the same, the Marlins offer is significantly more valuable, given the higher cost of living in New York and the tax difference.
the tax difference is negligible, players’s checks are taxed based on where the money was earned. so the paychecks for games playing in chicago are subject to illinois taxes and then game played in miami are subject to whatever tax is applicable in florida. at the end of the day, the “no income tax” benefit for athletes is just a myth.
Half the games are in Miami correct? If he earns 15 million per year, then the tax in NY would be roughly 500k vs 0 in Miami. Guess it depends on your definition of negligible.
Too much money for a guy that nobody else is bidding for and has injury history. So few of these big free agent signings ever make that big of a difference. Even the ones where the player puts up numbers, the team rarely wins more than they would have…then the contract becomes an albatross by the last year or two.
When you have money to throw around, overpaying to win isn’t a big deal. When you HAVE $120 million+, it makes no sense to spend just $80 million because you’re not guaranteed a ring.
I actually looked in to this and it isn’t that many that turn in to albatrosses. I think quite a few have recently and it makes you think that they’re all bad but a Reyes signing has a good chance of paying itself off.
The braves were even in the mix that’s a shocker. I though wren ultimately ruled him out from day one
I agree. I highly doubt they were ever going to offer him enough money to really be in it. Though it would be nice to have Reyes and Bourn at the top of the lineup.
idk dude.
I think we have way more money than people think. Maybe Frank is still trying for Reyes. And the fact that he was trying behind closed doors amazes me.
Were you behind close doors with Frank? So you don’t really know if he was trying or if this is just some journalist or agent making something out of nothing. Liberty is not going to spend the money that Reyes is going to be looking for.
Did anybody have any idea that we were going to be getting Uggla and that Liberty would pay for him? No
And how many contracts of that size do you think the Braves are going to carry. Get real.
Well, with Kawakami, D.Lowe, A-Gon, Mclouth, Sherrill, Linebrink, Wilson, A possible JJ and Chipper in another year. Possibly another.
We are going to have to agree to disagree because I still don’t see the Braves making a real run at Reyes. Regardless of who is coming off the books. And keep in mind we are going to have to give some of that money coming off to players we currently have through arbitration in the next couple years.
All this is is a sports journalist knowing we need a SS, not offering arbitration to Alex Gonzalez, and reportedly shedding payroll. They put 2 and 2 together and somehow they forget we don’t value speed or defense all that much…and that is essentially Reyes. And if you think we do value speed and defense, let’s wait and see how much they offer Bourn, if at all.
It seems like no team is willing to offer him enough money/years. I know it’s early days but I don’t think he gets as much as everyone’s thinking. Maybe 5 years.
I wonder if he would take a 60 million guaranteed with a bunch of incentives that could make it worth 100 million depending on amount of games played.
He’ll likely end up a Marlin.
and why not the Mets the Mets are all in now.The Marlins are still poo even if they do get Reyes.Their rotation outside of JJ is lolz although I admit their BP did improve
Ricky Nolasco
What the hell do you base that on?
And why not Jays?
6 year 90MM is much better option than 7 year 150MM it would take for Fielder.
It would solve their leadoff and 2B situation, I bet Escobar will easily move to 2B.
It will open up Hech as a possible trade option to land SP.
So tell me….Why not Jays?
Chances are the better chance of winning would be in Miami. Now im not calling Toronto untalented but they will not win the division anytime soon.
And what do you base that on?
Sorry, i might be a bit biased but no way in hell are Marlins better than Jays as a team.
Jays put up a WAY better season while
1 – bullpen blew 25 save oppotunities.
2 – playing Patterson, Davis, McCoy, Rivera for 50% season (bench calibre players)
Jays are closer to contention than they ever were, a full season from Lawrie/Rasmus and better bullpen will easily give them 6+ wins. Another WC opening and slew of top talent coming up, I think Jays are force to be reckoned with.
I think Jays can and should atleast offer 6 years and 90MM to Reyes. Match that with Marlins and see what he decides.
“Sorry, i might be a bit biased but no way in hell are Marlins better than Jays as a team. ”
Better chance of winning =/= better as a team. The Marlins play in an overall weaker division and, by virtue of having less work to do to make the playoffs, have a better chance of winning than the Blue Jays who, despite significant improvements in the last two years, are still only the fourth best team in their division.
Adding a couple of good pieces could place the Marlins back over the Marlins and Mets pretty easily (Especially if one of those pieces of Reyes, as it weakens the Mets) and then they’re right in the thick of the Wild Card race in the NL.
I say Reyes re-signs.. This is just for Marlins to get hype and so fans can get season tickets..
So the 5,000 Marlins fans are out there now buying season tickets because the team might sign Jose Reyes?
Well said
if we’ve learned anything in the past few offseasons and deadlines. the Phillies are NEVER out of the bidding
Would be pretty cool if Prince & Reyes just stayed with their last team after all this.
Seems like the Phillies really didn’t want him then. They really buy into the “clubhouse” guy bullcrap.
they will if Rollaids leaves
It’s too early to declare the field void except for Marlins/Mets. This seems like wishful thinking.
Marlins get Heath Bell! 1 down, 2 to go!
The Tigers need to offer him 5/85 with a vesting option for a sixth year worth about $20MM. That puts him at making $17MM through his age 33 season. He is just now entering his prime and if he can stay healthy, he could be one of the games superstars. Not to mention he fixes almost all of the teams problems. He’s a leadoff man, fixes third (Peralta,) plays amazing defense, and adds a ton of speed to a team that only has Austin Jackson. Speaking of Jackson, move him to the nine slot. I think he could do wonders with less preasure on him. And if the OBP and strikeout rate don’t go down, that’s fine too. People will take great defense with lack of offense as long as your batting in the bottom of the order. Keep in mind that this is a city that made Brandon Inge king.
If you sign Reyes, you can then go out and pick up a second baseman with good defense and can take the risk of having a bad bat. Someone such as Yuniesky Betancourt. The guy is great with the glove and has some pop to his bat. He will not get on base that much, but is cheap. There is enough offense in the lineup though that it won’t be as big of a deal. Sign a cheap starter such as Jeff Francis or Jon Garland and start Jacob Turner in the minors. If Francis or Garland are having trouble heading into June, bring up Turner and move them to the bullpen. If they are doing well and Turner is excelling in AAA, then use them as trade bait in July. Sign one more guy such as Jon Rauch or Dotel and call it a great offseason.
Betancourt? Coming from a Brewers fan that cringed watching him play shortstop all last season, I’ll tell you that any smart team would sign him for his bat over his glove (and that’s not saying much). The guy made error after error last year and his range was TERRIBLE.
RAJ is definitely in the background making moves. 4/80 guaranteed w/5th year vesting option at $25m (1000 PAs total across 2014 and 2015)
I thought Betancourt was the 2nd worst SS in the MLB last year?
I thought Betancourt was the 2nd worst SS in the MLB last year?
He has very good range, though. I remember him a couple of years ago in KC making a ton of great plays. I think that he has very underated defensive skills. That’s just my oppion, though.
The Tigers need Reyes, they could move Peralta over to 3rd and then get a good leadoff hitter with great speed which is what the Tigers need
Reyes is more of a luxury with Austin Jackson on the roster.
Tigers need starting pitching not jose.They should get CJ.
The Tigers dont need CJ, we already have Verlander, Fister, Porcello, and Scherzer, the last thing we need is a 20 million dollar pitcher who struggles in the post season. I say the Tigers should make a run at Burehle, Cespedes or Reyes, if we get two of those three, we would have a great shot at at World Series
I respectfully disagree. 6 years of Reyes isn’t what the Tigers need to get involved with — with those hamstrings, he could easily turn into another Guillen at the end of the contract, only more expensive. They already have big money committed to Cabrera and Verlander, and a hefty amount to Martinez as well; shorter-term contracts would be much safer…
But the Tigers don’t really need a major overhaul — they just need better middle relief (as proven in the Texas series) and a legitimate 2B, preferably one who bats lefty (Kelly Johnson, please, or trade for Maicer Izturis and rotate him with Inge and Santiago at 2B and 3B). Jackson strikes out a ton, but his walk rate is improving, and his BABIP was lower than expected in 2011, which makes me think he’ll improve as a leadoff hitter in 2012.
The Tigers have a lot of money to spend now that guillen and ordonez are gone. I think Reyes is worth the risk, when healthy he is one of the best leadoff hitters in the game, and Comerica Park is made for Reyes, he would get tons of triples
Guillen and Ordonez (and Penny) — a combined $26M in 2011 — being off the books doesn’t free up as much money as you’d think, because roughly $13M in combined raises go to Verlander, Cabrera, Martinez, Raburn and Valverde; another $1M above last season’s payroll has gone to re-sign Santiago and Laird; and Scherzer, Coke and Porcello are all arbitration eligible for the first time, which should mean about $5-$7M in raises for them. So, those two guys you mention coming off the books, along with Penny, will only free up about $5-$7M for 2012, assuming payroll stays constant. If they do re-sign Young for a season, there goes pretty much all of that cash.
Of course, Illitch may well choose to up the payroll to bring in the help the team needs to get over the top, so maybe the payroll will go up $20M or so (to around where it was in 2010). If that’s the case, there are so many better uses for that $20M than to spend 75% of it on a player who might very well only play in 75% of the Tigers games in 2012.
They’d be much better off not re-signing Young (or signing and trading him), inking switch-hitting Crisp for slightly less to play better LF defense and lead off, ponying up $20M or so for three seasons of Kelly Johnson, and then using the rest to upgrade pitching — $10M on Buerhle to be their #2 pitcher, and the rest on a top-tier reliever.
But hey, I’m not going to cry if they sign Reyes. At least not until his first DL stint.
As long as the Tigers get Cespedes im not gonna complain, if we do get Cespedes we could trade delmon young and some prospects to Atlanta for Prado who could leadoff, then we could just focus on pitching.
1. Prado
2. Boesch
3. Cespedes
4. Cabrera
5. Martinez
6. Peralta
7. Avila
8. Inge
9. Jackson
That sounds like a lineup no pitcher would want to face
What part of the Braves not wanting Delmon didn’t register with you?
Then give prospects or Jackson they could get a deal done
Then give prospects or Jackson they could get a deal done
The Marlins are players this offseason!!
Outside of Josh Johnson, they don’t have that really good of a rotation
Anibal Sanchez and Ricky Nolasco would be totally fine as #3 and #4 starters — but currently they’re #2 and #3 (assuming Vazquez doesn’t return and Johnson is healthy). If the Marlins can sign a reliable innings-eater like Buehrle as their #2, their rotation would be pretty solid, actually. We shall see!
If thats the going price for reyes, i want to see the Nats get him. That solves their lead off issue and then allows desmond to be a trade chip.
Call me crazy, but if I’m the Tigers GM I match that 6-year $90 mil offer.
I know it’s risky because of his health issues, but as long as he doesn’t have a major injury that lowers his productivity $15 mil a year is a bargain for him. And Reyes fills 3 of the Tigers biggest needs. (speed, a leadoff guy, and improved defense)
If the price remains under $100 the Red Sox may be interested giving them added options for moving Crawford, Scutaro or Ellsbury for starting pitching–Dan Haren or Anabel or one of the Philly starters if they lose Rollins.
I like that Alderson and the mets are holding ground.. 5yr 80mill is a great deal for Reyes. At the end of the day, I see the Marlins pony-up another 6mill, making the deal 6yr 96 mill(exact contract as A.Beltre).
1- Reyes SS
2- Coghlan CF
3- A.Ramirez 3b
4- Stanton RF
5- Morrison LF
6- G.Sanchez 1b
7- Buck C
8- Infante-2b
IMO, thats a nice lineup.
New Stadium, New Uni’s, New commitment. Pay for Reyes so fans don’t go to games watching a bunch of penny stocks type players hoping for wins every night. Reyes is well worth it for us in Miami
Reyes will either be a Met or a Marlin – guessing Marlin. The market is odd this year. I suspect a domino effect will happen once one of the top five sign. I can’t see Pujols leaving STL, but if I was STL I would move on. I think he’s older than he says he is, and he’s coming off one of his worst seasons (albeit still a huge season). To sign him to a 10 year deal will make AROD’s contract look decent in comparison.
I can see someone like the Nationals swooping in and making him a late offer… to try and steal him. Especially if its really only the Mets and Fish bidding- and both teams are lowballing him.
It has been well documented the Nats have LONG needed a leadoff man (MLB worst numbers at leadoff spot), and SS Desmond has been WELL below average defensively also. Reyes could improve both areas at the same time.
Then the Nats could just sign a defensive CF (like Ankiel again) and bat him at the bottom of the order.
Last year the Nats were very quiet… then they came in out of nowhere and made a big splash and signed Werth.
You just know Reyes is hoping the Red Sox would get involved. Just to jack up the price.