Albert Pujols and the Angels agreed to a $254MM deal today that will keep the longtime Cardinal under contract until he's 41. As you can imagine, the signing has inspired some reactions across the league. Here are a few takes and additional details on the second-largest contract in baseball history:
Tim Dierkes' take: In hindsight, it was odd to be talking about offers in the $200MM range on the open market for Pujols, who still may be the best hitter in baseball. It seems that ultimately the Cardinals were way behind in their offer, as both the Marlins and Angels offered over $40MM more. Before the 2011 season, a contract for Pujols topping Alex Rodriguez's $275MM seemed possible in free agency, but a rough start to the season and the lowest walk rate of Pujols' career might have given a few teams pause. Plus, the Yankees and Red Sox weren't involved.
Almost all long-term contracts end badly. Angels owner Arte Moreno knows that, and he's going for broke for the next three to four years. I generally appreciate an owner who is willing to do that. We see teams overpay for dozens of free agents every winter; Angels fans should be glad their owner did it for the best free agent in years.
I can't speak for Cardinals fans, but I don't see cause to be angry toward Pujols or the team. The Cardinals made the best offer they could reasonably afford, and it was nowhere near the others. They still have a strong team and the glow of two recent World Series wins. As for Albert, if I was him I wouldn't have agreed to a contract that made me the fourth-best-paid first baseman in the game.
Additonal Pujols reactions:
- The signing makes the Angels much better in the short term, but it's "almost unthinkable that this contract will look like a good one in 2021 when we look back on it after its conclusion," writes ESPN.com's Keith Law (Insider required).
- Dave Cameron of Fangraphs agrees with Law, saying the Angels will need a lot of breaks in order for the deal to work out long-term.
- The Angels were the "unlikely beneficiary of the Cardinals' inactivity," says Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
- Cardinals fans have the right to feel bitter, but comparing Pujols to LeBron James is misguided, since Pujols and the Cards won two championships, writes Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.
- "I would like our fans to know that we tried our best to make Albert a lifetime Cardinal but unfortunately we were unable to make it happen," Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr. said as part of a statement, thanking Albert for his achievements and community contributions.
- Two other FOX Sports scribes provided their takes on the deal as well.
- At today's press conference, Angels GM Jerry Dipoto praised the athleticism of Mark Trumbo, now the Angels' former first baseman. Dipoto mentioned third base, designated hitter, and the outfield as possibilities for Trumbo, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports.
- Appearing on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM, Dipoto said the Angels didn't get heavily involved with Pujols until the last 24 hours before they reached an agreement.
- Jayson Stark of ESPN.com spoke to a few National League GMs who are happy to see Pujols switching leagues. "I'll miss seeing him," said Reds GM Walt Jocketty. "But I won't miss facing him."
- Typically big spenders, the Yankees and Red Sox weren't in on the Pujols bidding. Yanks GM Brian Cashman "gave it a nice, respectful no" when Pujols' camp approached him, according to MLB.com's Bryan Hoch. Sox GM Ben Cherington said it would have taken "huge, fundamental changes" to the team's roster and payroll to sign Pujols, tweets Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal.
- As we discussed earlier, the Angels' offer wasn't the largest one Pujols received — the Marlins' ten-year proposal topped it.
first!
I like the sentiments about not comparing this to Lebron, nor being angry at the Cards or Pujols. Just with him the best and hope to see him mash the ball in the AL now.
Even if you were first on the actual signing, no one would care.
So?
So there is no need to post it. It just makes you look immature.
Apparently no one cares, neither do I, so what’s the big deal again?
Apparently no one cares, neither do I, so what’s the big deal again?
Stupid!
Best of luck to the Angels and their new Free Agent prizes, but the Rangers are still the kings of the AL West.
Until they beat the Rangers, I don’t disagree. Though parts of me still wish the Marlins got him so the M’s didn’t have to face him. At least it should be fun to watch.
Hey now, Even though the rangers have been better for the past few years, We still are the last AL West Team to win the series and we were still winning the division back in 2009. That isn’t very long ago.
Of course it’s not that long, which is why it’s very competitive between the two. But the fact of the matter is that they’re at the top of the AL West until they’re beat. That can’t happen until at least next year.
Tell it to the Astros who went to the World Series and then self-immolated themselves. You’re only as good as your last season.
Dont worry. The M’s won’t be competitive before his contract is up.
Ha! We’ll be lucky even then.
Kings? Please!
Angels have OWNED the West this last decade, sans the last two years. You guys had the ball those years, went to the WS twice and “dropped the ball” BOTH times. Until the Rangers win it all, you’re nothing but an itch on a Halo azz..
Rice, nice pic bro haha but You can’t say the “Halos” have dominated in the last decade. Until they beat the Rangers and get to the ws they’re still second place.
Still whipped your butts the last 2 seasons with your own players like Vlad and Napoli. In spite of losing those 2 World Series, at least we weren’t sitting at home whining about all the players we didn’t sign and all the bad contracts we took on. GO RANGERS!!!
For the first time Rangers go to the PLAYOFFS and the WS twice in a ROW and lose to Giants 1st then CHOKE to Cards..Sorry but time is up..You guys had your chance’s and our time is finally coming..GO ANGELS!!!!!!
I wish the Angels luck. I do like the team, however, this contract is not the best for them. Don’t bank on Pujols to pull you to the Series. He didn’t do much this first half and was mediocre the second half. Downhill slide. I do like the Angels, but I don’t think he is the Almighty one to do for you. Buerhle will be a good addition.
Owned? You guys have been Pwned.
Wanna cookie?
Tell me though, does this picture not look weird? Maybe by June we will start getting used to the look. But I just can’t get passed what he looks like at the moment.
Yeah it’ll take time to get used to it. But I think it’ll be a rude awakening when he mashes the first bomb against our pitchers 🙂
At least he is still in red.. man Cubs jersey really would have stung
Oh man, that would’ve been something.
Still better than that god awful Marlins Jersey. The Marlins backed away because Pujols refused to sign without a no trade clause. Marlins are going to have another fires sale once this run ends one or two seasons from now… Standard Marlin M.O.
I say a good whack to the leg before he gets on the plane..Freaking traitor..
I’m sure you were there to rally for him to get what he deserved.
why is he a traitor? The cards had more than enough time to lock him up and they couldnt. He didnt even take the biggest deal. He took one that was more money than the cards. He WAS A FREE AGENT! Yes he didnt take a home town discount but he didnt have to. He won two world series and 3 MVP’s while on the cards and they didnt extend him. he is not a traitor at all get over it. Its actually a good thing that the cards wont be paying him 25+ mill when he is 41 years old and cant play anymore.
When is it enough money. When do you think about Legacy and living a honorable life then selling yourself to the highest bidder. I call him a traitor because he walk..The Cards made the best deal they could make without hurting the rest of the team. He could have been the next Musial but now hes just the next ARod. When he hits the Hall Of Fame it will be as an Angel and it kind of breaks my heart..I think all the fans feel like we were made into the ditchable prom date. I think we are allowed to go through the stages of grieving. Im in anger right now..LOL
You missed the part about how he DIDN’T sell out to the highest bidder. That would have been the Marlins chief.
Is it Pujols’ fault that the team wasn’t willing to take on serious risk? It’s not like the Angels are the Yankees or anything. If they don’t win big with Albert this deal will kill them. The difference between the clubs is that the Angels are betting that Albert will continue to be the dominant player in MLB while the Cards basically said that Pujols was worth less than Teixeira a few years ago (at least in AAV).
The Cards may have made the smart move. If the Angels win with Pujols then both the Angels and Pujols will have made smart moves. Point is there doesn’t need to be a loser in every transaction. No need call people traitors or say they are without honor just because things didn’t turn out the way you wanted them to. You just comes across as a whiny fanboy.
If he went with the Marlins no DH..He isnt going to be fielding the next 10 years..He would have been traded to a second rate team. The Cards would have kept him. Hey I am allowed to be a bit pissed..If given the same situation with you you would be too..
Two things that your post misses about why Cards fans are actually enraged by this decision.
First, the likely reason he didn’t sign in Miami was the lack of No-Trade clause. If Miami had offered that as part of their deal to Pujols, he most likely would be going to Miami.
Second, it’s not just that he’s leaving to take more money. It’s that he is leaving to take more money after this statement in 2009:
“…People from other teams want to play in St. Louis and they’re jealous that we’re in St. Louis because the fans are unbelievable. So why would you want to leave a place like St. Louis to go somewhere else and make $3 or $4 more million a year? It’s not about the money. I already got my money. It’s about winning and that’s it.”
In the end, what Cardinals fans are mad about is that he straight up lied to the fanbase. Personally after this, I’ll be glad to see him gone, as long as the management uses that money towards something more productive than lining their pocket book.
Maybe you missed the part where he said , “It’s about winning and that’s it.” Directly after saying, “It’s not about the money. I already got my money.”
Therefore, he’s saying that he can win with the Angels (and I think he’s right…Cards are pretty much done.) And that he’s getting more money to play for a team he believes will win.
That’s not being a traitor, that’s him wanting to win AND get more money. He can have both.
Oh you are in for an awakening. STL saw him at his BEST the last ten years. he has no where to go but down. He may get lucky a few times, but you aren’t going to win with him. You win with a TEAM. He made his share of hitting into double plays and screwed up in the Series a few times and his SUPER EGO wouldn’t take responsibility and talk with reporters and admit it–he ran from them. He has changed in the last two years and not for the better. Good Luck to you, I really think the Angels need it. And by the way, The CARDs aren’t done. Did you hear that we have 11 World Series….second to the Yankees. How many do the Angels have?????? HMMMMMM wishful thinking. Dream on
OH YOU ARE SO RIGHT—I couldn’t have said it better. We saw him at his BEST—I heard his interview—when he said he wanted to stay in STL and retire here, with a statute next to Stan Musial and Ozzie Smith. LIAR. I felt that punch in the stomach today and that was the reality check that IT”S ONLY ABOUT THE MONEY. I wish the Angels all the best, I’m glad he is in the AL and not with the Cubs because that would have rubbed it even more.
This was probably before they dumped a bunch of money in Holliday’s lap and made him an offer to be the 4th highest paid 1B in the league. The Cards had all the time in the world to get this done. And they didn’t. And now they are pouring the koolaid down the throats of all the fans saying “we tried our best” and we will re-allocate the money elsewhere. If they tried their best he would have never hit free agency because they would have made him a better offer then being the 4th highest paid 1B in the entire league. As for re-allocating the money, every fan base has heard this before. I wouldn’t hold your breaths. let see if they put their money where their mouth’s are this time.
In the end, it was probably in the best interest of the team as a whole to not re-sign him. But they had to atleast seem to make an effort of the fan base would have really flipped. IF the Cardinals take this money and bring in other quality players over the next couple seasons, it was a smart move. If they hang on to it all, this was just a publicity scam.
NO TRADE CLause—–that’s why Pujols didn’t go for the highest bidder. He knows he isn’t as good as he was. StL saw him at his BEST—-It’s only downhill from this point on.
oh poor baby…too bad your team hasnt won a world series in almost two months.
oh poor baby…too bad your team hasnt won a world series in almost two months.
He didn’t go to the highest bidder, Miami offered him $275MM, maybe he left St. Louis to get away from fans who want to try to break his leg and call him names after all the great things he did for the Cards.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL The fans have been deceived- both STL and now the Angel fans.
“When is it enough money.”
I think this when I’m looking at the prices at the concession stands
He did not win two world series, he was part of a team that won two ws. He didn’t take the biggest deal, because the Marlins wouldn’t give him a NO Trade agreement. The Marlins are good for trading. He’s a traitor because he lied to the Cardinals fans telling them that he wanted to stay with the Cardinals, retire and have a statute next to Stan Musial and Ozzie Smith. He said it wasn’t about the money—LIED just like he has lied about his age. If you think he’s only 32, guess again. The Angels are in for a big surprise. His numbers have been falling the past three seasons. Except for the one game in this year WS that he hit 3 home runs, he wasn’t that exceptional in the playoffs or WS. I like the Angels, I believe they made a mistake, giving him this amount..only time will tell, but I will say, St Louis saw Pujols at his best, he has no where to go but down. He negotiated a ten year contract and we will be mediocre for those ten years. Yes, I am a Cardinal fan and have been for many years. I’ve have the opportunity to see them in the 1964, 1967, 1968, 82,85,87, 2006 and this year’s World Series. The Cards will be fine—they still have a good team. It stings the Cards fans because they have been DECEIVED by him.
Yeah that 41 years will be in about 6 years. He is older that 31. He is a liar. He was interviewed and quoted as saying he wanted to stay in STL, retire and have a statute next to Stan Musial and Ozzie Smith. Fans bought into it, believed him and now realized they were deceived by him. He sold out along with his lowlife agent. That is another story.
He will get what is due him because of his lies to the fans. Matter of time.
Way to be the bitter ex girlfriend…
Is it so hard to take the high road and thank him for what he did, and wish him well? I mean St. Louis got all his best years, and the Angles are picking up the tab for it.
Would you be upset if you got to bang the prom queen all night, then watch her got to dinner with some other schmuck who’s picking up the bill?
It’s pretty amazing that the Angels didn’t get involved until Tuesday night.
On the field, the contract is on a bad side of risk/reward toward the end of the contract, though many fail to see the overall business perspective of the move as a calculated risk that should pay great dividends. The added boost of leverage that Pujols gives in the Angels in TV rights negotiations could very well pay for the contract itself. The huge latin market and a competitive team should fill seats, the potential for Pujols chasing milestones even in the twilight of the contract are all additional big time revenue scenarios as well.
Are they banking on the whole Dec. 12, 2012 thing to sort this out for them?
I was thinking the same thing lol
Albert Pujols on the Angels literally makes zero sense. It was such a show move for people to oh and ah at. Morales and Trumbo are both good 1b options. Morales healthy, is great. Now they have an awful contract for ten years with two first basemen they are now forced to trade.
You think there’s any chance Morales could play OF again?
Not a chance. Not only is he brittle, but there’s better outfield options.
Is the Brittle coming from just the ankle injury, or was he brittle before. Also, could he potentially play 3B?
Asking because I thought he’d be a good pickup for the Braves if he’s cheap enough. They need a bat of his calibre, but 1B is blocked (though his bat may be better then Freeman’s)
Yes brittle from the injury. We know that it was bad enough to keep him out this long, so there’s no telling where he’s at. He would make more sense as a DH for them. Like I said, there’s just better options for the outfield.
Morales is still relatively unhealthy and a huge question mark. Plus, he is a free agent after this year. Trumbo is promising, but they can play him at DH next year (and even more after Abreu is gone), or possibly give him some at bats in the OF or *maybe* third. The contract will be probably be bad by its end, but to say it makes zero sense is just incorrect in my opinion. You pay a ton of money for a long time, but you get arguably the best player in baseball which makes your team better, their upcoming tv deal more lucrative, and helps them be THE team in SoCal. Oh, and not that I am a proponent of the band wagon, but there are lots of new Angels fans after this morning because of Pujols.
Morales is a huge question mark but if he does come back healthy then he could be looked at for DH or outfield (he did play outfield before). Pujols did come up as OF, 3b and 1b, of course it would be hard to imagine them moving him and his gold gloves away from 1b.
DiPoto said he was looking at 3b and of for Trumbo too and wasn’t looking to trade him or Morales for now. There are still plenty of options to look at. I think the best solution is trading Abreu away to a team (eating 5-6 million of his contract) to open up the DH spot and save a little payroll.
False; Trumbo can move to third or the outfield, Kendry can move to the outfield or DH.
Where will Abreu play?
left bench
Rotated as a DH and occasionally a pinch-runner or something. He’s still a valuable asset, the Angels just don’t have much of a place for him.
Correct me if I;m wrong Kendrys is only under team control one more year.
I’m not defending the signing per se; I think it will get messy in those later years. But it’s an obvious improvement for the next couple of years even assuming a healthy Morales, and imagine the kind of trade returns you could get for either or both of those two. Get the Cubs on the phone, they will probably be interested.
OK OK OK.. Maybe go get Rollins and Fielder .. line up looks better this way than with Pujols in it.
Rollins
Craig
Fielder
Holliday
Berkman
Freese
Molina
Skip
Pitcher
It will at least stop the bleeding
i actually like fielder for the cards. he gives them a great lefty bat and is young than albert
yeah.. maybe even make a trade for Hanley instead of signing Rollins
Um…is this assuming Skip is in CF, and Craig is at 2B?
They’d make awfully nice trade pieces though. After all, Miami was in on Pujols and Gaby Sanchez is a nice 1B too, but they’d have been happy to take Pujols and trade Sanchez for pitching.
You don’t even know what the Cardinal offer was & the Cardinals have 11 RINGS!!!!
We know the Cardinals offer was less than the Angels or Marlins. And potentially less than the so-called “mystery team”
If St. Louis wanted to brag about having the best player in baseball, maybe they should have paid him as such?
St. Louis can bragg about having 11 Rings… If you are not a Yankee fan. Enough said….
That’s nice, but what does that have to do with Pujols leaving St. Louis?
It means if we wanted to brag… it would be about having 11 World Championships. Not spending 254 Million $$$$ on a player who we have already got his best 10 years for 100 Million $$$. Anything else you want to know?
Lol yea answer my response! Yes you have other shiny toys but you lost your best player. Anything else you are trying to say? Congrats on the rings? Really stop being bitter.
Not our best player—-One of our best players—We won the WS as a Team, not one person, especially not Pujols
Well, he’s still our best player. Paul’s response doesn’t necessarily imply that Pujols won the WS by himself, just that Pujols was our best player.
you post like a 5 year old melting down in the wal-mart toy aisle.
Chris Rock made a joke once about the difference between rich and
wealthy…he said Shaq is rich, but that the man signing Shaq’s paycheck
is wealthy.
so…if you want to stay angry…be mad at your owner…they make a lot
more money than they let on, which is why they never open their books
even though they cry poor when a labor agreement is about to be
negotiated.
or as many pimps say…don’t hate the player, hate the game
and you don’t know your facts—–read up and then reply–maybe you’ll learn something.
JohnS–you put that so well. I love it. Some of these people don’t understand that we have seen the best of Albert and it is unlikely that he will repeat as he gets older—-
It’s a consolation prize? maybe? I’m not really sure.
Wow.. if you think Albert Pujols is greater than the Cardinals. You really don’t know anything about Cardinal baseball.
What I am learning about them is that they seem to think they are entitled to every player.
Well at least some of them think that about at least one of their former players.
CONFUSED little homer
nah, i think it’s just johnS
Quit thinking that’s your first mistake
No, you have the wrong team for that. check your info—you are mis-informed.
Brag* and go ahead brag, just at this time in a pujols thread no less makes you seem just really desperate and the jealous ex gf. “fine leave me but i still have the cat!!!!!!!!!”
i find it hilarious….beside himself with anger and lashing out at the player as if the player personally wronged him, yet at the same time wishing the player were still on his team. it’s like that stalker girlfriend you get in college who alternates between trying to sabatoge your life and reconciling post breakup.
Not lashing out at anybody… what post are you reading???
Absolutely NOT true. Tweets 2-3 days ago were saying—let him go–he isn’t worth it. A few years ago he was, not now. Not that much. You’ll see. Not sabatoging, just stating the facts and that he is getting older and slower.
LOL—Clueless
Lol I guess you and your grandchildren can look back on those 11 rings and remember that those are the only ones your team will ever win.
LOL… maybe one day the Rangers can get their 1st one.
YOU think. At least we have a lot more than you and we can remember the WS. Oh and 9 of them were without Albert.
i agree and maybe they should have re-upped him 2 years ago and not wait until the last minute…..did they think that just because he was established heavily in the community, he wasn’t going to go away or consider leaving…..that being said st louis is still going to be a good team that is going to be hard to trifle with…..they have tough starting pitching and good to above average bats….carlos pena could help replace albert and guess what? they are ok!!
Maybe they realized they offered him what he was worth, not what he thinks he is worth. His stats have fallen the last 3 years and he is getting older (older than what you really think he is—the age hasn’t been determined, however, he may be a few years older than he is admitting) That’s why he wanted the ten year contract… The cards have 11 World Series–how many do the Angels have?????
Most sources are saying it is 50 mil less. I will believe them over your “DERP WE DONT KNOW IT COULD HAVE BEEN FOR 500 MIL!” reasoning.
but frodo’s ring rules them all…
This gives me some serious pause, as a Giants fan, regarding things like the upcoming Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Brian Wilson contract negotiations.
And with the first 2 you can bet there will be more bidders. That said, don’t be shocked to see the Giants make an aggressive offer to make sure they keep at least Lincecum.
Eh, maybe. In spite of all that Lincecum has achieved, I think Cain is the more consistant pitcher.
In other news… I really need to figure out how to merge these two Discus profiles.
I think Cain is a great pitcher he just seems to fly under the radar. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hit FA and considering Zito’s contract I’m wondering if Sabean will be a little gun shy on anyone except Lincecum.
All you have to remind yourself is this: Barry Zito
Not much could be worse than that.
nah, giving out contracts like the one given to Zito just gives an organization character
add to that sabean is your gm i would be terrified to be a giants fan and i might be one soon with a up coming move to SF…
Albert has shown his true colors today. Lies and deception along with greed and pride. “it’s not about the money” pfft! 11 years of that and then he pulls this on us. yesterday I could not possibly have imagined myself saying such words but now that we know who he truly is, I am no longer a Pujols fan! I sure hope the experts are right in saying he’s on a decline and he won’t come out of it. I do not wish him the best because he did not honor his word “I would like to remain a cardinal for the rest of my career” if that was true he would have signed with the Cardinals regardless of what other bigger offers there were out there. the easiest way to lose all your fans is to betray them and pujols has done just that.
wow, grow up. Would you leave 50 million dollars on the table just because people like the idea of you staying with one team? I believe he meant he wanted to stay a cardinal, but it would be strange if that desire was so strong that it couldn’t be overruled by the opportunity to make way more, to move to So Cal, to join a competitive team with some great young players busting onto the scene.
Cardinals offer was NEVER made public….
There is something to be said about a player really wanting to be with a certain team. Cliff Lee left $30mil on the table by choosing Phillie over NY. What is $50 mil when you still can make $200 mil and stay with the team you know?
Then what’s $50 mil when you can keep the centerpiece of your team? Are we really just going to throw those questions around so loosely like it’s not a huge amount of money?
Yes, it’s that black and white. Let the anger speak.
I’m sure Pujols would have remained a Cardinal if St. Louis had enough common sense to not let Pujols even hit the open market.
A notoriously cheap franchise played with fire and got burned
It’s a new age indeed when a franchise spends $100M a season and is called cheap.
cards front office tried to sign him for the last few years and were told by lozano that arod’s deal was a STARTING POINT. and how are the cardinals getting burned anyway? they won 2 world series while underpaying the best player in baseball for a decade. yeah, its a real shame they’re gonna miss out on grossly overpaying for his decline.
God, I love reading you Cards fan fume and justify Pujols leaving town. You can always rebuild your team thru the draft.
World Series Champions…. You act like we are the Royals are something. You know absolutely nothing about baseball.
im an orioles fan.
So you admit he was underpaid for ten years but when he leaves for a payday he is a traitor.
please show me where i said he was a traitor. making stuff up is fun…
where did i write that he was a traitor? or anything remotely similar to that? in fact, what the hell are you even talking about?
I wouldn’t exactly call the Cardinals a “notoriously cheap franchise”. If they were notoriously cheap, they wouldn’t have Wainwright, Carpenter, Holliday, Berkman, Lohse, Westbrook, etc…their roster would look similar to their cross-state rivals.
I wouldn’t exactly call the Cardinals a “notoriously cheap franchise”. If they were notoriously cheap, they wouldn’t have Wainwright, Carpenter, Holliday, Berkman, Lohse, Westbrook, etc…their roster would look similar to their cross-state rivals.
Why not be pissed at Cardinals ownership? They apparently fell short by at least $50m being offered by more than one team. Is Albert not loyal or is ownership being cheap?
I don’t know to many people pissed at Cardinal ownership. I do know stores in St. Louis are trying to give Pujol’s jersey away & NOBODY wants them.
Put a “Le” in front of Pujols and people will snap them up.
Don’t have any idea what any of your posts mean.
Money Talks and BS Walks, blame your cheap owner. Stop hating on a baller and let that man get paid.
Nobody is blaming ownership… Great player. But Cardinals have NEVER needed to give ANYONE that kind of money to win. 11 RINGS!!!!!!
I don’t blame the Cardinals at all. I’m talking to the people who are hating on Albert. Had the owner matched then they could call him a sell-out. They need to be mad at the owner for not matching.
The winners in this ordeal are St. Louis and Albert Pujols. I got a feeling the Angels just lost big time!!
He’s the best 1B of his generation. He’s always deserved to be the best paid 1B as well. It’s a shame the Cardinals didn’t feel the same way. It’s as simple as that.
Nice hissy fit! I love teams that think they are entitled to world series titles and players. Have fun with your entitlement and your teams lowest offer.
Der pujols owes us, he only gave us 2 WS champs and 3 MVP award seasons, we wanted 11!!! YOU OWE US!!
Quit crying.
I’m sure Pujols is very sorry for leaving given what you posted 🙂
Your entire post just reeks of the belief that Albert Pujols owes you something. He does not. He never did.
But you know, let us pretend there was some point in history he did. I think that debt was more than paid off by the 185 MILLION DOLLARS in surplus value that he provided you–and that’s not including 2001, because FanGraphs doesn’t have a value for it; based on the WAR and 2002’s value for fewer WAR, it is at least $15MM. He was paid $200,000. You can do the math on where that puts the surplus value number right?
He owes you nothing. He owes the Cardinals nothing. That he might have talked well about the franchise while they were his employer means nothing, no matter how sincere he might have been; if you thought it did, you were simply deluding yourself. The idea that a player should take less money, potentially tens of millions of dollars less money to play for you is absurd. It is doubly absurd when put in context. You are going to wish that somebody’s career is in inexorable decline because the two hundred million dollars in surplus value he provided your franchise for ten years did not make him want to re-up with you for fifty million less than he was offered? Boo freakin’ hoo.
Honestly, my only hope for you is that you stop being bitter in the next few weeks and get over it.
the guy that works for the guy charging you the $7-8 for a beer is the greedy person with no class? Interesting
what does he owe you?? Nothing!!!!!! He actually turned down 275 from the Marlins so what say about him that he chose a place over the money
How long before Prince signs with Texas?
within 2 weeks…
They have to counter those moves…if they don’t they won’t be favoured the way they have recently
JD says they won’t but the Rangers are planning something by the end of the month…unless ownership is feeling a financial squeeze we don’t know about this winter…
The Rangers aren’t going after Fielder.
They’re going after Darvish right? I think Fielder is staying in the NL. I wonder if the Cards will go after him.
I thought they were since we signed Cj that is ;)..Didn’t you say something about don’t be wishfully thinking because maybe Texas signs Prince if we sign Cj? if i remember correctly..
If the Cardinals are in fact a “small market team”, as the recent CBA terms would suggest, then they had no business getting him anyway. To bad for their fans, but they had him at a very reasonable rate for a long time, and two WS and they shouldn’t complain considering that we all live in a free market, capitalist system. Nobody turns down that offer–his family will reap the benifits for generations while the rest of us toil from year to year dreaming of what that existence might be like–as I would undoubtedly do the same
Dissappointed….. anyone should be able to understand this.
Shocking that Dave Cameron is against this.
Of course, if this was with the Cardinals or Marlins, he wouldn’t have a issue.
Why, because it’s really a great deal in the long run? Get serious.
You’re in denial if you don’t think this is a great deal for the Angels. This is bigger than just baseball.
Plus, he can DH in the AL.
Funny, I don’t recall me saying that. Of course it’s good getting him, but I think you’re in denial if you don’t think it’s a bad idea to pay a guy this much for as old as he will be in the ladder half of his contract. I would say anyone can reasonably see this, but I stand corrected.
Yeah..I haven’t seen Angels fans this distraught since letting go Jeff Mathis
Who said anything about being distraught? You sure find ways to read a lot between the lines when nothing is there. There was nothing illogical about the conclusion Cameron made. And just because he came to that conclusion doesn’t make it any less valid. Bias much?
Cameron already said Pujols should receive a contract well over 200+ before the offseason started.
So, now he has a problem since Pujols is now playing in the AL West. Which just happens to be the division of his favorite team.
Cameron became illogical when he considering that favorite team, the Seattle Mariners, to have a top five organizational ranking in the MLB.
Biased indeed.
So what? People have opinions. It doesn’t automatically make everything they say invalid. He didn’t say he had a problem with them in the AL West. The problems are going to come with what the Halos are going to have to do if Pujols takes up that much of their payroll and declines as everyone expects him to. Doesn’t make the signing a bad signing, it’s just a huge risk for the ladder end of his career.
That’s not how it works though. To sign anyone of long-term value in free agency in the MLB, you’re gonna give them a deal that doesn’t look so hot at the end of it. That’s just how it works. The players like these deals because they still get paid handsomely when they being to decline. If you refuse to do this when offering contracts because you fear giving out a “bad one”, then you’ll never sign any top tier free agents. ALL deals to top tier free agents are going to be bad in the last few years of the deal, it’s just a question of how bad.
I know, and I agree. But there’s still nothing about what Cameron said that was illogical. It’s still not a great deal long term wise, but if it’s what it takes for a guy like Pujols, you just gotta suck it up and do it if you are capable.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Bigger than baseball might account for one or two years of albatross failure, but 5 years+? This is an alright deal short term and an unspeakably bad deal long term.
It doesn’t matter who was going to pay him it was going to be a terrible deal. It just happened to be the Angels.
Pujols is a big bat in the lineup…like Vlad was. But Pujols won’t bat 9 times in the lineup and pitch…do his bat only gets you so far.
It’s been a general consensus that this deal will look bad come the end of it.
Zero sense? Play Trumbo at third. If/when Morales comes back, platoon he and Abreu at DH. That makes a scary line-up:
Aybar, SSWells, LF or Abreu, DH
Hunter, RF
Pujols, 1B
Morales, DH or Trumbo, 3B
Trumbo, 3B or Wells, LF
Kendrick, 2B
Ianetta, C
Trout or Bourjos, CF
Trumbo
Wells and his lousy OBP is not a leadoff hitter.
I’d be pretty happy if they found a taker for Abreu (throwing in maybe 6 million of his 9). That would leave us with:
Aybar SS
Kendrick 2b
Pujols 1b
Hunter RF
Trumbo DH
Callaspo 3b
Wells LF
Iannetta C
Bourjos CF
Of course, we could work Trout into the lineup at RF and LF giving Trumbo, Wells and Hunter days of rest and DH to keep everyone fresh.
why do i feel like if the Angels make Abreu the Red Sox will “kick the tires” on him?
Wouldn’t have been impossible yesterday but with Ortiz accepting arbitration it is hard to imagine.
The problem was the Cardinals didn’t offer him this deal three years ago…Arod had just signed his 10year/$275 mil extension, they could’ve given him this deal then ($25 mil a year is a lot easier to to swallow for his age 28-38 seasons than his age 31-41 seasons. Instead they dragged their feet cuz they had him on such a sweetheart deal. He’s easily the best first baseman in baseball, and he simply wanted to be paid as such….it’s no surprise that this Angel deal, while not the highest offer, was still a fraction above Ryan Howard’s. It’s all about the principle, and he has every right to it in my book.
He wanted 10 years 300 Million 3 years ago. The Cardinals have NEVER needed a player that bad to win.
Without Pujols, you can kiss those two World Series he helped win St. Louis goodbye.
St. Louis had more than enough time to get a deal done and they continued to balk. Sadly, the Cardinals management won’t receive as much blame as they should for this debacle.
but they had him for those years. what does that have to do with anything?
They will reciever no blame. Berkman & Freese carried us this year & David Eckstein was MVP in 2006. Any other stupid statements you would like to make today!!!
The Cardinals made the postseason by one win. You really think Pujols didn’t make the difference in at least one game during the 162 game season?
What does that have to do with anything? Every team plays the same amount of games…. Clueless.
What does it have to do with anything? Really? You’re really that delusional to think that Pujols had nothing to do with those WS rings?
He had everything to do with it. He was our best player… What does that have to do with getting in the playoffs the last game of the year?
Why are you asking the same question you’re answering in your own post?
You are like talking to a brick wall… Later.
In other words, you have no response after being soundly defeated
It really does feel like St Louis is done, doesn’t it?
They are certainly done for now
Nope, we were done in August don’t you remember.
Nope, we were done in August don’t you remember.
then you should be wishing Pujols well (since you don’t EVER need a player that badly to win) instead of villifying him with the sour grapes attitude for exercising his free will
Most fans do wish him well… but won’t be missed as much as you might think. Most fans don’t doubt ownership. They give us a pretty good team year in & year out.
Of course they do, but who was it that these teams have been centered around again? Oh yeah. You’ll never miss him. That’s why you’re so calm about this.
as much…. try & read each word so you can comprehend the meaning of the post. thank you
Thanks Einstein. Apparently you’re free from having to do the same.
wrong post..
Yeah, I discounted the Angels because they already had a first baseman. But the bigger reason was I couldn’t imagine them going all in for Pujols. I have to admit my surprise.
you forgot cav’s fans: “this is an outrage!!1!”
I’m sure Boras has set up camp in Nolan Ryan’s front yard.
Tim says, “As for Albert, if I was him I wouldn’t have agreed to a contract that made me the fourth-best-paid first baseman in the game.” Is that what the Cardinals were offering? Reportedly, they made him the fourth largest contract offer, behind what the Marlins, Angels and the mystery team were offering. But that doesn’t mean he would have been the fourth-best-paid 1B in the game. Am I missing something?
he might have meant in terms of AAV.
The idea is that the Cards offer would have put him behind Howard, Teix, and Gonzalez in terms of annual salary for 1B men.
If the reports are acturate then the Cards offered 9 years 198 million in January which is AAV of 22 million. That reportedly is where the Cards offer was to start and the Marlins interest pushed their offer higher, but no one is reported to what. Tex got 22.5 AAV, Adrian got 22 AAV, Howard got 25 AAV. SO technically its a tie for 3rd. No one knows what the cards boosted this offer to but its was well short of making him the highest paid 1st basemen in terms of AAV. His deal with the Angles on the other hand does 25.4 million AAV.
ticket prices going up in Anaheim / LA
We may even end up paying 6 bucks a beer soon! Well worth it for the product they are putting on the field.
Hold on…….You don’t already pay 6 bucks a beer?!?!?!
No we don’t and Tickets are cheap to but i have feeling that might just go UP
Beer is $8.25 here and the damn brewery is right down the street.
And all that money goes into DeWitt’s pocket…
DeWitt gets as much crap as any owner for absolutely no reason. Maybe he used that money to pay for the stadium that the city of St. Louis didn’t have to pay for.
Pujols just added his name to all the other extremely greedy scumbags playing baseball these days. Money isn’t everything. It is getting harder and harder to watch any sport nowadays with all the “Great Players” getting paid millions to play a game. Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Jimmie Foxx, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, Lou Gehrig are some of the truly Great players of baseball. They didn’t need lots of money to play baseball. They played for the joy of playing. These scuzoids who play now, have to have steroids or some other pick me up before they are willing to play.
It’s not about the money….have you ever sat in an office with co-workers who were inferior to you but made more than you. Well Pujols was looking up at Howard, Teixeria and Gonzalez and we all know he deserves to get paid more than them. It’s not about the money, it’s about the competition for the money.
Actually I have. It is about the money. There is no competition in baseball anymore. The rich teams get richer and the poor teams get the left overs. Creative teams like the Rays are the only teams that can keep up.
He took the deal he liked best. Therefore he is a scumbag.
Exactly. I bet he eats puppies for dinner and kills small animals too.
He like it best because 1.Money 2.10 Yr’s 3.No trade clause..Cards and Miami had both 1 and 2 but they didn’t have 3
Quite Right. He took the deal that paid most. Unlike Cliff Lee who took less to go back to the Phillies. there is some integrity in baseball just not much.
What do you want to bet if any of those players were around today they’d take the money and run. You talk about these “greedy” players and imply loyalty but let’s face it, those guys would have signed for whoever paid them.
Get over it.
So your telling me Lou Gehrig would have quit the Yankees for more money? Not likely.
Nothing personal, but that was the dumbest posting I’ve ever seen on here.
Then you didn’t get the point.
Then turn the tv off and get off the internet if you can’t take the reality of it. Sorry to break the news to you, but it’s not about you. It’s a business. This is just how it works.
He would rather that the owners just make as much money off the players as they can. The players should just feel lucky the owners give them the opportunity to play.
The post wasn’t about me Dummy. It was about all the greed in sports today. Owners and players alike. The team as a whole should share in the profits not just one guy. Who thinks he is better because people say he is.
Baseball back then wasn’t what it is today. Those players made damn good money for playing a game. The players today want their share of the BILLIONS that are made off of a game. I can’t blame them. I would have loved for Albert to return, but he earned the right to be a free agent and choose his next team. Good luck to him.
Agreed. As far as the players making damn good money as you put it, If they were making such good money then why would they start the free agent system in the first place?
Does anyone else think the Angels will surpass the Rangers next year? I mean the Angels have arguably the best rotation in baseball (yes, even better then the Phillies and Giants) and picked up Pujols while the Rangers have done nothing. The Rangers have some big questions in their rotation that will lead them to their downfall.
I have a gut feeling that the Angels will take the west again after the 2 year hiatus. Of course, until they do so, you still have to consider the Rangers the favorites with that offense and the 2 straight pennants. However, with the Rangers rotation question marks and the bolstering of the Angels roster, it definitely begs a discussion.
I agree, I think it’s going to be fun to watch either way. It’s going to depend on a lot of things, especially on how well LA’s young guys develop.
The Rangers unloaded a less than reliable pseudo-#1 pitcher– to their rivals no less–and not hamstrung themselves financially in doing so. Holland, Ogando and Feliz will surpass Wilson in the next 5 years. We are in position to add Darvish too.
We can walk Pujols everytime he bats…what can you do?
Angels do not have a better rotation than the Phillies or Giants. You take those three starters over Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Halladay, Lee, and Hamels? All those guys I mentioned have been there done that and have been consistent.
Haren always fades after the all-star game, Santana will be Santana, Wilson is an aberration and will not have the same season he had last year. Weaver is the only one that might be worth considering.
I can move on from, Albert Pujols knowing that the Cardinals got the best from him in his career. The Cardinals just couldn’t compete with that (LA) market, especially one renegotiating a new Billion(s) dollar TV deal. However, I extremely pissed that he just walked away w/o listening to Cards front office this morning after getting the Angels. I consider him a fraud for those actions.
Our line up looks a lot weaker taking AP out.
Obviously. Good thing it’s only December 8th and the Cards have roughly $20MM to spend. I doubt it will all be spent this winter and probably won’t bring in any big free agents. I think the Cardinals will be looking for a top player on the trade market though.
I am not a Cardinals/Angels fan or a Pujols fan so I can say this without prejudice: Signing him to this long of a deal for that much money is idiotic. At first he may earn his paycheck, but when he does start to decline I think Angels fans are going to turn on him. The only fans that could have absorbed a Pujols decline are Cardinal fans. Pujols and the Angels both made an irreversible, and soon to be regrettable mistake.
You nailed it.
Dodger fans say they are still the real LA team…
the way salaries are rising
25 mil a year will seem cheap in 6 – 8 years
…if Pujols stays healthy
it is an interesting point. We can look at the way in which salaries have ballooned decade by decade and this may not look too crazy by the end of the deal.
The way the dollar is declining 25 mil will be cheap in 6-8 years anyway…Pujols contract will still be unwise.
Cardinals are still in a solid position without Pujols. They can move Berkman to first and start Craig in the outfield. As for the Angels, in a few years both the Pujols and Wilson signings might look bad, but this year, they’re going to have an excellent team. Even though first base was their best offensive position last year, Pujols is an upgrade there, and his presence will create a lot of buzz and hopefully get them a bigger TV contract.
The angles just signed a new TV deal this offseason.
I think it was rumored that they were close. I don’t remember anything about them actually signing the deal yet though.
There current deal which is worth roughly $50 mil a year runs through the 2015 season. In October, it was reported that the Angels were in the process of negotiations to extend their contract with Fox and it was rumored that the result will be in excess of $2 billion over 20 years. At the very least, they will get more than the Rangers got which was $80 mil a year for the next 20 years. The deal is also rumored to include partial Angels ownership in fox sports west.
here’s what I don’t understand. on all every long term deal, it seems like keith law constantly points out how the owners made a mistake because of how unlikely it is that the player will remain productive during the final years to warrant the money during those seasons. he seems like a smart individual, but he is looking at it from completely the wrong perspective: owners know that free agents, even those as consistent as pujols, are not likely to produce at their current levels towards the end; no one is making this mistake. owners are making a conscious economic decision: that it is worth the drastic overpayment at the end to obtain the player’s prime years, and with market competition, it is the only way to obtain the player at all. whether or not THIS is a smart decision is a difficult question, but it seems like he is suggesting that owners believe that the free agent will maintain constant level of play even at age 40, when it is actually an economic concession that they are prepared to make…
As much i like too brag about the move. Ten years is a little risky for anyone. But I think Arte is thinking in terms of how much can AP bring on and off the field. With AP obviously your gonna have more people in the stands and now im sure there gonna renegotiate a tv deal. So AP brings more than just stats to the team. It is a towering decision but you can appreciate an owner who wants his team to win and profit.
Albert Pujols and the Angels agreed to a $254MM deal today that will keep the longtime Cardinal under contract until he’s 41
Fixed*
Albert Pujols and the Angels agreed to a $254MM deal today that will keep the longtime Cardinal under contract until he’s 47
Card fans should be happy. They can rebuild now starting this allstar break. Trade off all your hitters for prospects, sign a couple pitchers next winter.
Cardinal dont need to rebuild.. maybe, maaaybe fills some holes.. Pujols was not the whole team. Yeah he had a few unreal games during the post season but the those games the Cardinals already had a huge lead.. Pretty sure without Pujols in the playoffs last year we could have still won it all.. We won in without our Ace, why cant we win it with out Pujols?
with all due respect, this is the single most ridiculous statement ever written on the internet. anywhere. by anyone. ever…
Haven’t been here long, eh?
Haven’t been here long, eh?
There’s still a pretty solid core and with Albert walking the Cardinals now have 5 draft picks before the second round. With two of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball already in the system, I don’t think there’s any need for a major rebuild.
The “loyalty argument” in regards to Free Agent situations such as these is a completely absurd one. Pujols was a member of the Cardinals organization, not originally by choice, but because he was drafted by the organization and they controlled his rights as a player. He re-upped with them previously because they made an offer that was something he felt reasonable and adequately satisfied his demands. However nowhere along the way did he “choose” to become a Cardinal, baseball’s draft merely placed him into the hands of the organization. This time around the Cardinals did not offer a deal he felt was adequate and so he pursued a better offer and found it. If we want to bring loyalty into the discussion, why wasn’t the organization loyal enough to one of it’s best players of all time in offering a deal on par with the other top offers? Because it didn’t feel justified given its circumstances to commit that much to one player, just as Pujols did not feel justified to forgo 50 million dollars to stay in Missouri. It simply didn’t work out, doesn’t mean anybody is a “villain” here
Then Cardinals got the best years out of Albert and if the Cardinals signed that contract I would be upset with Cardinals. Good for Albert for getting that type of money and well deserved!! At the same time dont go telling people in STL he dosent play for when when he straight up lied. I am happy for both teams and sides because I think they both made the right play.
I’m curious what he lied about.
Oakland should start re-rebuilding, only to start re-re-rebuilding another 3 years from now so that they can be competitive when the Rangers and Angels give them an opportunity to win.
I am a fan of baseball but the out of this world salaries are destroying the game . All these big name players are showing kids that if the whine enough they can get what they want . Albert Pujols has proved his value but at the age of 41 will he still hit 30 longballs ? Time will tell but for now it’s great to see another team win a free agent that isn’t the Yankees or Sox
I am a fan of baseball too, and I don’t remember seeing any lesson plans on this. There’s plenty of good people that make up the game. What would you have them do, give all their salaries back to the teams?
Not everyone can be genuine and back up what they say like Joe Mauer.
I’m a fan of baseball and it’s not the job of baseball to teach lessons to kids…It’s the job of the parents to make the kids understand and act accordingly…What happened w/ Albert and all the players is supply and demand….IF no teams offered the big $$$ then they would either accept the smaller offers or get a regular job….Do I think a 10yr deal for a player 31/32 yrs old is too much…YES….do I think he will fade….yes….do I think he will be worth what he is paid over the life of his contract..yes(in a baseball sense considering I feel ALL players are over paid for what they do to earn their checks but that is the nature of sports these days)…
You really don’t get it.
The Angels aren’t projecting Pujols to hit 30 HR’s at age 41. The deal is predicated on Pujols contributing excess value in the early years, market value in the middle years, and negative equity value in the final years. By 41 I’m sure the Angels would be happy with a part time DH that hits 270/340/480. What they are paying Pujols for is a 7-8 WAR season in his first few years with the hope that his success will translate to championships for the organization. A few rings and Albert pays for himself.
Of course, that doesn’t even touch on the ramifications when it comes to capturing marketshare with the Dodgers so depleted. Pujols is as much about what he does on the field as what he can do for the history of the organization. In that way, the Angels and Marlins are on the same page. Both are overspending to get more traction in their markets at a critical time in their franchises history.
For what it’s worth – can you please point to a moment when Albert whined? He was very clear with the Cardinals about what he wanted. The Cards made a business decision that they weren’t comfortable going more than 9/210. That’s not whining. And apparently Albert was right. There were at least 3 teams willing to go above the Cards.
I’ll speak for the typical logical Cardinal fans that everyone needs to know are out there in abundance on what is certainly the most memorable off-season occurrence for the franchise ever, and a day that will never be forgotten in St. Louis:
I’m devastated to say bye to a true legend, but am excited to see what the organization does to remain competitive from here. I await Opening Day with just as much excitement as ever, and would not find it in the slightest bit satisfying if Albert did not prove to be a good investment for the Angels. He’s gone and now it’s time to move on. What good is it holding grudges against the guy who gave the Cardinals so much the last 11 years? Let’s not gloss over how much it hurts, but there’s nothing to be gained from squabbling with other baseball fans about what this means for the team as a whole.
no, you don’t have the right to be pissed, and if given the same situation I wouldn’t be too.
No more loyalty in the MLB it seems all about money
Albert has done alot of charity, so maybe he looks at it as $50 million more to help those in need. Even had he excepted the Cards offer in 5 years we would be in bad shape in 5 years. LA has enough money to overcome that, the St. Louis market does’t.
Here’s what they should do:
First, sign Ryan Ludwick and Andruw Jones. We need a backup center fielder and this would do it as well as fill the void of Craig’s injury or go Cuddyer since he’s versatile.
Second, check in on Hanley. Then trade Westbrook for Orlando Hudson and Jason Bartlett. The Padres want to shed payroll and this would do that. Or trade for Jed Lowrie, Eduardo Nunez or Ian Desmond. They should all command about the same return.
Third, Let Duncan take his pick of free agent pitchers for the five spot; Joel Pineiro, Jeff Francis, maybe even Dontrelle Willis.
Fourth, Sign Kerry Wood and Mike Gonzalez, a lefty former closer. Wood could close or set up.
Albert has done alot of charity, so maybe he looks at it as $50 million more to help those in need. Even had he excepted the Cards offer in 5 years we would be in bad shape in 5 years. LA has enough money to overcome that, the St. Louis market does’t.
Here’s what they should do:
First, sign Ryan Ludwick and Andruw Jones. We need a backup center fielder and this would do it as well as fill the void of Craig’s injury or go Cuddyer since he’s versatile.
Second, check in on Hanley. Then trade Westbrook for Orlando Hudson and Jason Bartlett. The Padres want to shed payroll and this would do that. Or trade for Jed Lowrie, Eduardo Nunez or Ian Desmond. They should all command about the same return.
Third, Let Duncan take his pick of free agent pitchers for the five spot; Joel Pineiro, Jeff Francis, maybe even Dontrelle Willis.
Fourth, Sign Kerry Wood and Mike Gonzalez, a lefty former closer. Wood could close or set up.
the truth is that pujols was jealous of the recent success of freese and berkman
pujols thinks that he deserved the WS mvp
what are you knew?
1. Orlando Hudson
2. Jon Jay
3. Lance Berkman
4. Matt Holliday
5. David Freese
6. Ryan Ludwick
7. Yadier Molina
8. Jason Bartlett
Bench:
Andruw Jones
Allen Craig
Daniel Descalso
Tyler Greene
Tony Cruz
1. Chris Carpenter
2. Adam Wainright
3. Kyle Lohse
4. Jaime Garcia
5. Joel Pineiro
Bullpen:
Lance Lynn
Kyle McClellan/ Eduardo Sanchez
Mitchell Boggs
Marc Rzepczynski
Mike Gonzalez
Jason Motte
Kerry Wood
Shouldve had ODog two years ago…Wood, Luddy, Gonzalez-No thanks. Bartlett, eh…
Cano after the Yanks buy out his option next year…now we’re talking
so where will prince fielder sign that 1 year deal?
Hell hath no fury like some (not all, not even most) cardinal fans scorned!
Albert Pujols’ batting average and OBP the last 4 seasons:
2008 – .357 .462
2009 – .327 .443
2010 – .312 .414
2011 – .299 .366
Any predictions on next year? I’m guessing .293 AVG; .348 OBP; 32 HR’s; 92 RBI’s
– Those are good, middle of the order stats… Not $25 million stats though. I hope he proves me wrong.
Any predictions on what you’ll get 3 years from now with this pattern? 5? 7?
My point is… I like Albert but… I don’t think his stats will warrant $25 million NEXT year, let alone 10 years from now! He USED to be the best hitter in baseball. His stats the past two years say that he currently is not the best hitter. His stats are consistently trending downward. They are not getting the MVP Pujols of the earlier portion of his career. THAT would have been worth $255 million. The current Pujols is not. I wish Albert the best of luck but, this is not money spent wisely for the Angels.
Dude one down year and you’re kicking him already? I bet he hits .315 AVG .410 OBP 44 HR’s 120 RBI’s
That would defy all logic. He’s been consistently trending down the last 4 years. Even you would agree with that. I didn’t say last year was a “down” year. His last 4 years he went from .357 to .327 to .312 to .299. Why would predicting .293 for next year be “kicking” him? Wouldn’t we both agree that would be an accurate prediction based on the numbers? Why would his average raise 16 points and why would he hit 44 HR’s and have 120 RBI’s? I don’t get the math or the logic. His average has dipped an average of 19 points per season the last 4 years. I predicted a dip of only 6 points for next year. It’s not like he’s getting into a better situation than he was in last year. I thought I was being more than fair.
He had the two best years of his career only a couple years ago. He was fighting injury last year. He’s still in his “prime”. I would be VERY surprised to his numbers go DOWN from last year. I think it’s reasonable to assume that he’ll be close to his 2010 numbers unless the birth certificate crap is true. He’ll be 32 going into next year not 42.
I was going off of a 4 year trend… not 2 years. The numbers don’t lie. I watched him every day. He’s been fighting injury for several years. Everybody knows that. The stats don’t lie. I like the guy but expecting a rise in his stats after a 4 year decline for no reason is a little optimistic. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s not impossible that he has a bounce back year but… he hasn’t looked like the consistently dominant Albert Pujols in a long time. His power numbers have remained consistent. His overall batting skills have consistently declined. I hope he reverses his 4 year trend… I really do. A .330 batter who hits 35-45 HR is a lot more valuable than a .280 hitter. I don’t think you’ll ever see the Albert who hits .340 with 45 HR’s again.
By the way, I still think the Angels got a great player in Pujols. I don’t like the contract. I feel like he was a $30 million dollar a year player the first half of his career but I don’t think he will be the 2nd half. I hope I’m wrong. He has been proving doubters wrong his whole career. I’ve been wrong plenty of times. I still am a fan of Pujols and, believe it or not, I want him to succeed.
I agree with johnydrum all the way. Not to mention he will have a lot more to deal with next year (SP he has never faced but know his weaknesses, more travel time, and preparation,) I am a lifelong Cardinal fan who has followed him very closely and I can truly say he isn’t what he projects when in front of the cameras.
Pujols has to average 5 WAR a year for his contract to pay off. In his “down”, injury filled year he does that. He was worth 7.5 WAR in his previous regression year. The year before than he was a 9 WAR player. That’s 2 seasons removed from being a 9 WAR player.
If you use something better than the triple slash and include a few more seasons you get a better trend (wOBA/wRC+):
2004: 439 / 170
2005: 436 / 170
2006: 448 / 175
2007: 414 / 151
2008: 458 / 184
2009: 449 / 182
2010: 420 / 165
2011: 385 / 148
Using wRC+ you can see what Pujols has done relative to all other players. In his “down” year he was still +48 runs. While that won’t match his peaks in 2008/09 he’s just a few runs short of his typical season in the 160 to 170 range. When you factor in missed time due to injuries the gap narrows further.
I’d also point out that a guy smarter than both of us has his prediction for Pujols. He’s expecting a 316/414/591 season. Good for a 422 wOBA. Bill James isn’t projecting much regression.
As an Angels fan we don’t need Pujols to return to 2008 form. His best days are behind him. However, he is just so good that even with modest regression the guy will be positive contributor for the first half of the contract – at least. To expect 7 to 8 WAR over the next few years is reasonable. Start knocking a half win a season and Pujols will be just fine for awhile.
One more thing – if you are going to use AVG you might want to look at something else – BABIP. Pujols has a career BABIP of 311. It’s never been below 295. Last season it dropped to 277. We know that BABIP is largely a function of luck when the GB/FB/LD%’s all stay within career norms. Pujols suffered from injury, bad luck and a little old age. It’s not wishful thinking to project that the first two things will be less of a factor in 2012 than they were in 2011. That bumps his average and OB% another 20 points at least.
I’m not disagreeing with your saber metrics but I also don’t think you should include stats more than 4 years back when looking at a 32 year old player. It’s obvious that he is a different player now than when he was 25. He’s at a different stage in his career. This guy has dealt with injury his whole career. He’s played through it remarkably. He has dealt with elbow and foot issues throughout the entirety of his career. He had a minor fracture in his hand at the mid-season point this year. He wasn’t playing well before that. Why would he be “more healthy” this year? Also, you can never win an argument with a saber guy because there is always a stat you can find to support your argument. To be honest… you could be right. I hope you are. I just go on basic performance stats. He wasn’t any more injury plagued last year than any other year. He was actually worse before his fracture than after. He’s been streaky the last 3 season. He pulls the ball more. That is what I noticed. The stats might say otherwise. Those problems can be fixed.
With this said. I thought I was being optimistic by hoping that Lance Berkman would hit .275 with 18HR’s last year. Instead he hit .301 with 31 HR’s. I hope Albert works out. He was a dynamic player for the Cardinals in his first 11 years. He helped them get to 3 World Series and win 2 titles. The Cardinals will win without him but I’d rather have him retire a Cardinal. Good luck.
By the way, I don’t think the Angels’ main priority is “bang for your buck”.
Vernon Wells: .218 AVG; 25 HR’s; $26.6 million
Tori Hunter: .262 AVG; 23 HR’s; $18.5 million
Scott Kazmir: 1 game played; $12 million
Bobby Abreu: .252 AVG; 8 HR’s; $9 million
WOW….
Do you think you would have made the playoffs without him last year though
This isn’t an argument on whether Pujols is one of the best players in the game… The argument is if he is worth the giant contract given the fact that he is on the downward side of his career. The trend in numbers supports the fact that he IS on the downside of his career.
I think the Cardinals needed every player they had to make the play-offs last year. That includes Pujols. That also includes the mid-season bullpen additions, Berkman, Holliday, Craig, etc. As for next year… They will be getting one of the games best pitchers back in Adam Wainwright this year. He finished in the top 3 in the Cy Young voting for the previous 2 years. They will need to pick up a couple of more players to make up for the loss of Pujols. They still have a solid veteran core and a lot of young talent. They will still be competitive next year.
Here is a telling quote on the Cardinals’ (and therefore John Mozeliak’s) philosophy regarding free agency and other player contract issues. Today Mozeliak was asked “So we shouldn’t expect you to spend $21 million on free agents now?” He replied “Well, if we can find $21 million worth of talent we would consider it, but it’s all going to be on what we’re purchasing and how we’re getting it.” (St Louis Post Dispatch).
I hope the Angels do bad this year to show them that you cant buy a Championship, look at the Heat and the Eagles the so called ” dream teams” dont see them with a Championship, hope the same thing happens to the Angels
It would be funny if Pujols wins, like, 4 World Series, and is inducted as a California Angel.
Extremely fat chance since only team has done so since the 50’s. The Angels will have to go through them to do so.
The key to this signing is if they can turn Trumbo into a solid 3b or if they deal him for something useful for the next few seasons. As a Chicago native, I hope the Cubs take a buy-low gamble on Morales or Trumbo for their 1b next season.
This is pretty funny and entertaining. So much baseball knowledge in here haha. Fact of the matter is Cardinals are still good, and hello, Cy Wainwright back in the mix this year. And now we have money to lock up some pitching and infield help. It will probably hurt us for a year or two…but in the long run it will be good for the Birds. Kid Freese still fittin to kill the ball
can’t wait to see him visiting Fenway next year
Well, five years later and it looks like this is the worst contract in baseball. Only halfway through too.