This morning we learned that Theo Epstein agreed on a five-year deal worth more than $15MM with the Cubs. Here' s a look at some of the reactions and fallout from around baseball..
- Brian MacPherson of The Providence Journal outlines some Cubs prospects that the Red Sox could receive as compensation for Epstein.
- Cardinals GM John Mozeliak says that the Cubs' signing of Epstein means that the NL Central is about to get even stronger, write Matthew Leach, Joe Frisaro, and Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com.
- Would Yankees GM Brian Cashman be interested in the new Red Sox GM vacancy? It doesn't seem that way, writes Andrew Marchand of ESPNNewYork.com. "I have a job," said Cashman when asked about the possibility of leaving for Boston. Nothing official has been agreed upon yet, but Cashman is expected to sign a new deal with the Yankees in the near future.
- Epstein's new average salary of $3MM is unlikely to affect Cashman's next deal with the Yankees, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Epstein's previous salary was roughly $2.5MM and Cashman will likely see a bump from his current $2.2MM average.
- Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter) heard that the Red Sox wanted to keep Epstein, but the GM made it clear that he would be leaving when his contract expired after 2012 . Epstein would have earned $3MM with a $4MM parachute payment at the year's end. That prompted the club to approve his discussions with the Cubs.
- Ben Cherington is expected to be the next GM of the Red Sox and Dan Duquette had nothing but kind things to say about the long-time exec, writes Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald.
- In an interview on WEEI's "Mut & Merloni" show this morning, Peter Gammons said that he's "sickened" by the criticism he has heard of former Red Sox skipper Terry Francona, writes Justin Doubleday of WEEI.com. As for the matter of compensation, Gammons says that he could see the Red Sox receiving someone like 23-year-old center fielder Brett Jackson.
This is a great move; except what’s this crap about them sending Brett Jackson in the deal. I understand that they have to send someone of value, but isn’t Jackson a huge piece of the Cubs future and a part of a farm system that is currently barren?
Our farm system isn’t that bad, it’s just hurt by Castro and Cashner being the majors now, but then we had a great draft and have another high pick.
Gammons is insane though, plain and simple. He’s a huge homer.
The farm system is hurt by Jim Hendry being your GM for more than 4 seconds.
Hendry didn’t do our drafts, Wilken took that over and did good while Fleits handled international.
..and Hendry traded it all away, which I think was, or should have been his point.
Brett Jackson is the cubs top prospect…no chance in hell the cubs give him up for Theo, the only thing the Red Sox will get is a mid-level prospect or 2 Gammons is just a homer
“fat chance in hell”? confusing odds
It is pretty hot down there. Presumably it would burn up, but probably slower than a snowball.
It was hot, but then The Eagles got back together and it froze over.
There you go I fixed is just for you lol
He may be a homer, but doesn’t that mean he’s more of an expert on the Red Sox than jfish1219 is?
I’m pretty sure everyone (including myself) was saying this same thing when he reported a “disconnect between Francona and Theo” but the fact remains, his information about the Red Sox is very credible.
You have to give something up to get something in return. You’re not going to get one of the best GM’s in the MLB for nothing.
In fairness, Gammons also said Epstein wasn’t going anywhere.
Actually he wrote an article on 10/5 on mlb’s website saying that the Cubs job could be too tempting for Theo to decline.
Actually he wrote an article on 10/5 on mlb’s website saying that the Cubs job could be too tempting for Theo to decline.
In fairness, Gammons also said Epstein wasn’t going anywhere.
No you don’t. Not if you’re the party with all the leverage. The Cubs don’t have to sign Theo. He’s their first choice, sure, which is why they’re going to give up a player or a few million to get him on their side. But more than that, they’ll just move on to the next guy on their list. Theo’s a nice name and he’s got some ideas surely, but he’s infinitesimally less valuable than a major league player. Brett Jackson? If even the syllable ‘B’ comes out of John Henry’s mouth, the Cubs will laugh and laugh and laugh.
The Red Sox cannot keep Theo now. Everyone knows he’s 100% gone by next year anyway. They’ll be happy to get anything in return for him at this point.
Really? The Red Sox, who have the GM that the Cubs desire under contract for one more year and would have to agree to let him go, aren’t the party with all the leverage?
If Theo doesn’t leave this year for the Cubs, who is he going to go to next season? Like I said earlier, Henry and Co. could easily promote him during this offseason if he stayed, and keep him around.
The Red Sox have all of the leverage here.
No and I don’t claim to be a expert on the Red Sox. But there is no chance that any GM is worth a teams top prospect. Also everything else that anyone reported say that it will be cash or a mid-level prospect.
That’s terrible logic. Just because he knows more doesn’t mean he says everything logically. Homers are known for being exceedingly dumb with trade proposals because they overvalue their pieces.
If you think a GM is worth a top prospect, you’re high. If the Red Sox asked for even a top-10 organizational prospect, I’d laugh and move on. Theo’s a good GM and all, but it’s not like he’s got some kind of inside scoop that is exclusive to only 2 or 3 GMs in all of baseball. There are several other candidates who could fill the job and not cost as much money annually or compensation for another team.
Let’s call you right. The Cubs will pass on that, then Theo will leave after next year and you won’t get jack in return.
“There are several other candidates who could fill the job and not cost as much money annually or compensation for another team.”
But how many of them will do it as well? The only two GM candidates I’d say are odds on better candidates to turn a franchise like the Cubs around are AA and Friedman and neither of them is going anywhere any time soon.
“Let’s call you right. The Cubs will pass on that, then Theo will leave after next year and you won’t get jack in return. ”
Considering the Cubs’ farm system, if they’re not willing to pony up a top ten organizational prospect, then “jack” isn’t going to leave us any worse off. There’s a reason Henry allegedly prefers cash to a minor leaguer from the Cubs and it’s not because he’s cheap. It’s a pretty severe condemnation of your farm system when a guy who consistently drops $150MM+ on payroll would prefer cash to your mid-level prospects considering the opportunity cost of a prospect.
Let’s put it in perspective here: You say Epstein isn’t that valuable, but who would you say is more valuable (At the time of being moved) to the overall future of their given franchise: Epstein to the Cubs or Beltran to the Giants?
Homers are Harry Carey types and the Cubs kept him around, drinking beer even in the bleachers until he just about passed away talking nonsense.
Other than the NYY Kaye and “Scooter” Rizzuto.. The Cubs/Yanks should have been spoon fed enough “homerism” over the past few decades, more than any one else by far
He may be a homer, but doesn’t that mean he’s more of an expert on the Red Sox than jfish1219 is?
I’m pretty sure everyone (including myself) was saying this same thing when he reported a “disconnect between Francona and Theo” but the fact remains, his information about the Red Sox is very credible.
You have to give something up to get something in return. You’re not going to get one of the best GM’s in the MLB for nothing.
dushy dooshy dueshy doochey douchey
Having fun?
Having fun?
He edited it… I guess Gammons isn’t Dushy anymore
dushy dooshy dueshy doochey douchey
Theo was a pretty huge piece of the Red Sox organization and future too…
Well he said he was leaving after 2012, so he was a big piece of the immediate future.
Regardless, he was under contract, and if Henry and co nixed the talks, they could have easily promoted him and extended him.
All I’m saying is that GM’s don’t get nearly enough credit. He turned the entire Red Sox organization around, and drafted/traded draftees so well that his one falter (signing FA’s) was completely overcome by excellent, young talent that he locked up to team friendly deals (Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Youkilis, etc).
To be fair, Theo didn’t do all those things. He relied on a team of people (scouts and player development people) and Cherington was a key part of that. Would Theo have the same success drafting and developing players if he couldn’t sign overslot guys and routinely spend as much as any team on the draft? His resources go far beyond FA signings. I see no reason why Cherington can’t have similar success drafting and developing home grown talent with the resources at his disposal. With the money they saved from letting Epstein walk (Cherington will make considerably less) they can poach talent evaluators from a team like Tampa and give them promotions. The Red Sox are a juggernaut and will be for some time.
Don’t you think the term “juggernaut” should be used by teams that have made the post season in the last 2 years? I mean obviously they’re a good organization but juggernaut? I mean they’ve made the playoffs one half of the last 6 years…That isn’t a juggernaut.
The only team that’s made the playoffs more times than the Red Sox in the last decade is the Yankees, by my last count. A managerial collapse and some rotten injury luck (2011 the former, 2010 the latter) doesn’t change the fact that the Red Sox have built, far and away, one of the best systems in the MLB top to bottom. Heck, even in your six year timeframe, I think the Yankees and Phillies are the only two teams who’ve made the playoffs more than the Sox.
Believe it or not, MOST MLB teams do not make the playoffs every season. Heck, from 2009 to 2010, only three of of the three of thirteen playoff teams across those two seasons made the playoffs both years (Twins, Phillies and Yankees). This year, a grand total of four teams from last year’s playoffs made it (Rays, Rangers, Yankees and Phillies). Similarly, in ’07-’08, only three teams stayed the same (Red Sox, Angels and Cubs.
GMs might not get enoguh credit, but you’re giving him WAY too much. He didn’t scout players, the scouts did. He evaluates information gathered by the other guys in the organization more thanhe gathers his own from watching opponents’ players and prospects.
He makes the decisions, but he has a LOT of help. There are plenty of other executives, and no GM is worth a prospect who could be an All-Star within a couple of years of his arrival.
Think about it–would you rather have Theo making your decisions or Lester starting Game 7 of the World Series?
When it gets down to it, players > managers.
Your analogy fails on the part of: if someone other than Theo’s making your decisions, maybe you quite possibly have Javier Vasquez starting game 7 instead of Lester. You say he’s severely overestimating, I say you’re severely underestimating.
Yes, a GM has a supporting cast, but by and large, the GM has the final say on any major decisions AND he’s typically the guy who puts that supporting cast in place. Look at Friedman, do you honestly think that the Rays would be even close to where they are without him? He turned what was a disaster of a franchise around in almost record time with pretty much no payroll flexibility to speak of.
Well seeing that Theo once left the Red Sox and returned a few weeks later why wouldn’t he possibly change his mind over the next 12 months? I’d expect emotions are high right after an unprecendented collapse.
The Red Sox should get more than C prospects. Ozzie Guillen brought back better compensation, why would Theo bring less back when A. Ozzie was leaving anyways B. Theo has more control over the organization (baseball ops vs. manager) C. Theo’d paid more D. Theo is a more desirable GM than Ozzie is a manager. I see no reason why the Red Sox should expect anything less than a top prospect, since the last time a GM was almost dealt (Billy Beane) the Red Sox agreed to ship out their number three prospect (Youkilis). Brett Jackson has similar value as a prospect now as Youk had then (projectable but flawed players at similar development level), and it can be argued Theo is more accomplished than Beane was then. So yeah, the Red Sox might not get Jackson, and Gammons is a homer, but that is absolutely close to fair compensation given the only precedent we have. Jackson isn’t Trout or Harper, the guy projects as a good but not elite corner outfielder who’s numbers are inflated by the league he played in.
Well seeing that Theo once left the Red Sox and returned a few weeks later why wouldn’t he possibly change his mind over the next 12 months? I’d expect emotions are high right after an unprecendented collapse.
The Red Sox should get more than C prospects. Ozzie Guillen brought back better compensation, why would Theo bring less back when A. Ozzie was leaving anyways B. Theo has more control over the organization (baseball ops vs. manager) C. Theo’d paid more D. Theo is a more desirable GM than Ozzie is a manager. I see no reason why the Red Sox should expect anything less than a top prospect, since the last time a GM was almost dealt (Billy Beane) the Red Sox agreed to ship out their number three prospect (Youkilis). Brett Jackson has similar value as a prospect now as Youk had then (projectable but flawed players at similar development level), and it can be argued Theo is more accomplished than Beane was then. So yeah, the Red Sox might not get Jackson, and Gammons is a homer, but that is absolutely close to fair compensation given the only precedent we have. Jackson isn’t Trout or Harper, the guy projects as a good but not elite corner outfielder who’s numbers are inflated by the league he played in.
Well he said he was leaving after 2012, so he was a big piece of the immediate future.
Jackson is not going to Boston in this deal. It’s going to be cash, or the Cubs taking one of Boston’s bad contracts.
I love how all the Cubs fans think the Sox are just going to let Theo out of his deal for nothing. It’s already been reported that the Cubs aren’t going to take on a bad contract (Lackey), and it has been reported that they will probably get around $15-20mm and either Brett Jackson or a couple young arms.
Based on the Sox needs, it will probably be Jackson, unless the young arms are AAA arms and ready to make the move to the MLB level next year.
Believe me, you don’t want any of the Cubs young arms. Except for Cashner, The Cubs don’t want any of the Cubs young arms.
You sir certainly sound disgusted
Have you ever watched Casey Coleman pitch?
It’s like a horrific car crash. You want to look away, but you have to take a look.
I haven’t…but I’ll remember that for my next round of penance.
Believe me, you don’t want any of the Cubs young arms. Except for Cashner, The Cubs don’t want any of the Cubs young arms.
I love how all the Sox fans think that they are getting Jackson 🙂
You know, I’d like Jackson and all and brian’s response above was a fair point of view I’d not considered (In regards to the Youkilis for Beane scenario), but where has it been reported by a reputable, non-biased source that Jackson has been discussed?
Brian McPherson of the Providence Journal mentioned it as well as Gammons (although I would guess that when McPherson mentioned it, it was as a result of Gammons mentioning it).
Regardless, reports are now surfacing that no compensation has been discussed, so it’s all speculation at this point. But all reports are that the Red Sox are demanding “something real” which does not equate to just some mid-level prospect consistent to what they could pick up in a rule 5 draft.
I hear it’s more likely to be cash–the Cubs won’t part with anyone the Sox want, and the Sox don’t like much of what they see in the Cubs farm system.
I don’t know if that’s good news or bad news.
From a Sox perspective? Bad news.
Cash pads the bottom line, but as evidenced by the offseason spending spree where Henry handed out like $300 million worth of contracts and bought a soccer team, the dude’s not cheap. He’s going to spend big bucks on the team regardless of what he gets back, so organizationally, we’re better off with them giving us a prospect, but as noted, the Cubs farm is awful and outside of the top 5 guys they have (And honestly, probably top three), there’s nothing worth getting there.
Honestly, best case scenario would be if the Cubs took on Lackey as compensation with us kicking in maybe $25 million of his remaining contract (Considering the Cubs are allegedly giving up about $20 million in cash, I figure them taking on Lackey and taking on $25MM of the remaining $48MM on his contract would be reasonable). Unfortunately, pretty much every source imaginable has said nothing of the sort will happen.
We would’ve been so much better off if he went to a team like the Royals who could give something of value up without touching their top ten. The Cubs are just about the worst place he could’ve ended up from a compensation standpoint.
Good move for Red Sox. Yes .. For the red sox
Gammons is insane, we’re not getting a quality prospect as compensation. Cash plus maybe a C prospect at best is the most I’m hoping for at the moment, although it sounds like we may only be getting cash.
However I agree with him that the smear campaign going on now towards Francona is just sickening. Trying to blame his performance on his marital status and pill usage is just a low, low blow. He was amazing for us for many years, and it’s really sad it has to end this way.
I’m hoping Cherington gets the GM position pretty soon, I would like to see Boston move forward on their manager hunt, as well as the many other things on this offseason’s To-Do List. Like, what the heck are they going to do about Lackey.
Yep, he’s a huge homer. Or maybe he doesn’t realize how good BJax is (ranked #32 in MLB Mid-Season Top 100 Prospects).
You’d think that they’d know a guy that could fit Lackey for some cement swimming shoes.
Lackey should be breaking out in a sweat every time a clubhouse attendant calls out next season. A more likely scenario would be a “mishap” during a mid-game dash across the street for some Popeye’s.
Dan Duquette approved… I’m starting to rethink my pro-Cherrington approach.
Though from the looks of the rest of the Herald article I’m guessing Henry was already hedging his bets on Theo and trying to ease Cherrington into the role.
I will say Dan Douquette and Mike Port were just as responsible for 2004 WS as Theo, although, flying down to AZ to have Thanksgiving with Schilling was definitely pivotal.
Pivotal? Yeah, especially when Schilling had just been told by DBacks front office that he wouldn’t be traded to the Yankees — his first choice twice. He had also asked the Phillies to trade him to NY.
Considering most of the top contributors to the Sox 2004 team were either scrubs Epstein picked up off of the scrap heap in 2003 and 2004 (Guys like Millar, Mueller, Bellhorn and Ortiz), components of the Nomar trade (Cabrera and Alphabet Soup) and major acquisitions Theo pulled off (Schilling, Foulke), I feel this stance is overblown.
Yeah, Duquette deserves some credit. he landed us Manny, Pedro, Lowe, Wakefield and Damon, but Epstein did a whole lot of work there to underplay his involvement.
I will say Dan Douquette and Mike Port were just as responsible for 2004 WS as Theo, although, flying down to AZ to have Thanksgiving with Schilling was definitely pivotal.
Brett Jackson would be a bit extreme no?
Extreme is an understatement.
Instead of the Sox receiving compensation for Theo, how about the Cubs take Lackey with him?
It won’t happen. A Boston source already tweeted that it won’t, but I don’t know if MLBTR ever posted it.
Cubs won’t take another bad contract anyway.
They did bring it up in one of the three or four Epstein posts.
Only if the Red Sox take Zambrano and give us some cash!
Can we take the battered Gatorade cooler that he constantly beats up instead?
Brett Jackson will be a solid piece for the Sox in a few years. I believe that if we can’t lock up Ellsbury long term Jackson will be replacing him…and if we do lock Ellbury up, would we push him to RF?
lol
I was hoping Gammons was right for once…this was sarcastic…If we do get B-Jax that would be the best thing that could possibly happen for the sox.
You mean, aside from keeping Theo and Francona, I hope.
I disagree with the bashing of Francona, but i think it was time for a new voice, he just couldn’t get through to the players, i hope Martinez comes in and changes things…So B-Jax would be great compensation for those 2 losses
Seconded on this, lamentably. I’ve always been in Tito’s camp, but his ability was always centered around his reputation as a Players’ Manager. I think the smear campaign is shameful and I don’t believe a word about the pill garbage, but if the players weren’t listening to or respecting him anymore (Something he himself has stated), there was no further purpose he could serve here.
I was hoping Gammons was right for once…this was sarcastic…If we do get B-Jax that would be the best thing that could possibly happen for the sox.
Didn’t MLBTR earlier say that the Sox prefer cash?
ya, they did
“Straight cash homie”
-Randy Moss
ya, they did
Gammons clearly doesn’t know who Brett Jackson is.
“I think that more important is going to be the $15 million to $20
million, and then I think it’s going to be a prospect. A guy like Brett Jackson who is young, would immediately take over as the Red Sox’ regular right fielder, right-handed hitter, which they need”
Brett Jackson is a left-handed hitting center fielder. Who’s also the team’s top prospect.
I was gonna post this, but you beat me to it.
BJax isn’t just CF though, he played a bit of RF too.
But ya, he’s a lefty and Gammons is clueless.
I was gonna post this, but you beat me to it.
BJax isn’t just CF though, he played a bit of RF too.
But ya, he’s a lefty and Gammons is clueless.
Brett Jackson is a below average center fielder defensively and would be better suited in right field.
I have not seen a single scouting report referring to him as anything other than “above average”. Where are you getting this from?
I am getting this from watching him play for the better part of the past 2 years. Seen him make several stupid mistakes on routine plays. He can play center field but he’s not great at it.
Marc Hulet in his Cubs top 10 list: “Defensively, he [Brett Jackson] can handle center field but may end up in left field.
He’s still improving his reads and routes, and his arm strength is just
average.”
that’s quite alright, there’ll be an opening for him to shift to left by the time our next center field prospect, Matt Szczur, is ready 😉
That’s fine; he said he’d never seen anyone who suggested that his defense wasn’t good in center, so I was simply showing him someone who had suggested it.
I have not seen a single scouting report referring to him as anything other than “above average”. Where are you getting this from?
left field*. average arm
left field*. average arm
Brett Jackson is a below average center fielder defensively and would be better suited in right field.
Peter Gammons consistently reminds me of one of those fantasy owners who offers you seven pieces of dung for your superstar. He’s smoking something good if he thinks the BoSox will get Brett Jackson in this deal.
The only difference is that Peter Gammons happens to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Proving beyond any doubt that the HOF isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. 🙂
And you will be inducted when?
Mr. Gammons, welcome to MLBTR.
And you will be inducted when?
Proving beyond any doubt that the HOF isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. 🙂
No he’s not, he got an award at the HOF inductions, not admission to the HOF.
The Spink Award is merely awarded at the HOF induction ceremony, but doesn’t make him a member of the HOF. It also doesn’t make him any less of a homer, and it won’t get Brett Jackson to Boston. Nice try, though.
You should ask him about it, lol.
You should ask him about it, lol.
Who does everyone think the new manager for the red sox will be? and i agree that B-Jax is extreme, but i hope Gammons is right on this one. Go Sox!
I have no idea who the Sox will hire but I hope it is Dave Martinez.
I was hoping Wedge, the Mariners bench coach. But Damarlo Hale would be an interesting canidate…
I do not think you’ll see any of the current Sox coaches back. IMO the current coaches were too close to Tito to have them stay. Hence why I think Hale will not be a serious candidate of course I could be wrong. Dave Martinez is a great coach and maybe he could bring some of that Rays cowbell luck to Boston.
You make a very good point. What do you think the sox will do to fix the pitching staff and put some production in RF? I was thinking of letting Papelbon walk and sign the slightly cheaper Ryan Madson, add debth by signing someone like Zumaya, trade away Lackey for whatever we can get, and sign someone like Maholm if the Pirates don’t take on his option (it looks doubtful that they will) or Edwin Jackson. And In my opinion for RF, I think signing Willingham for around 2-3 years and 4-7 million a year would be a solid platoon for Kalish/Reddick. And for DH, I realize Ortiz is the heart and soul of the red sox, but wouldn’t it make sense to let him walk and put Youk in the DH spot along with Lavarnway, and bring up Middlebrooks? That would save us 3 years and 13 million a year, and it would give us the opportunity to develop more young talent for when Youk and Salty are replaced by the young talent. What does everyone else think?
Salty replaced by young talent? You realize he’s only two years older than Lavarnway, right?
Yes, I’m not entirely shore of when Salty’s contract ends, i believe it’s at the end of 2012 or 2013, but Lavarnway has been projected to be the future of the sox behind the plate, Salty is young, that young talent was meant for Youk, i just put Salty in there because he will be replaced in a year or 2 by Lavarnway anyway
Saltalamacchia is under team control through 2014. He’s just hitting arbitration this offseason. And I’m fond of Lavarnway, but nobody with any baseball expertise is calling him the future of the Sox behind the plate, he’s projected as an awful defensive catcher. He’s basically Jesus Montero-lite. Most people project him as a future full time DH.
through 2013*
I blame Cot’s (Usually pretty reliable). They have 2012 listed as his first arb year with him under control through 2014.
they have his service time at 3.043 at the beginning of the year which squares with b-r’s current service time of 4.043
I was looking at the contract obligations spreadsheet which listed him in his third arbitration year in 2014, so I was operating off of that. MLBTR and B-R both said 2013, so, yeah, definitely wrong.
re-signed by Boston 10/14/10 (minor-league contract paying $0.25M in minors)didn’t go to arb because he finished 2010 in the minors i guess?
Wait, so is this now his first arbitration year?
I’m so lost at this point.
He was eligible this year, but the Sox signed him to a contract, so he didn’t go to arbitration. 2012 is his second arb eligible year.
Okay, that’s where I thought we were going, but it got lost somewhere. But yeah, looks like I got incorrect info from Cot’s.
they have his service time at 3.043 at the beginning of the year which squares with b-r’s current service time of 4.043
I blame Cot’s (Usually pretty reliable). They have 2012 listed as his first arb year with him under control through 2014.
through 2013*
Saltalamacchia is under team control through 2014. He’s just hitting arbitration this offseason. And I’m fond of Lavarnway, but nobody with any baseball expertise is calling him the future of the Sox behind the plate, he’s projected as an awful defensive catcher. He’s basically Jesus Montero-lite. Most people project him as a future full time DH.
I’m not sure you really need to replace Salty..he had a decent year at the dish, and behind plate well lets just say it didn’t help that he had to catch Wake all the time…
That is true, so take that part out of my earlier post(my fault for not researching deep enough), what does everyone think the Sox’ offseason moves should be like
Announce Cherrington as soon as possible. Revamp the coaching staff. Pick up Scutaro’s option. Offer arb to Papelbon and Ortiz and cross your fingers both just accept (Pursue Papelbon up to three years, Ortiz up to one at current value, two at a significant paycut failing that). Shop Lackey. Make as many cheap starting pitcher signings as possible (Bedard, Harden, Kazmir, Duchscherer, whatever we can get). Snag as many non-tender relievers as you can fit into Ft. Myers.
By and large, this is a team that’s still set up to win next year, it just needs better direction. Any injury-prone low cost, low risk players should be pursued if possible (I’d like to see them take a flyer on Sizemore if he’s cheap enough). I’m content to give Kalish/Reddick a shot for right field and if necessary, try out Lavarnway at DH. If Ortiz walks and we replace him at DH with a righty, the over-leftied outfield isn’t a huge cause for concern.
Mostly, we need to just fill in minor holes.
I wouldn’t look at injury prone players, you have to remember it was the injuries that hurt us in the first place, but i agree with the bullpen thing, this should be an offseason where the sox get 3-5 solid players, but not going for the Jose Reyes or the C.J Wilson, i say just offer on Wilson and Sabathia to jack up the price though…
That’s the thing, injury prone guys are the only ones you’re going to get without breaking the bank. Considering the actual level of quality on our roster, your best bet is to throw as many darts at the wall as you can and hope one or two works out. Sometimes it’s effective, sometimes it isn’t. That’s essentially how the Yankees got to the postseason this year.
Honestly, the ideal situation would be if Lackey were able to replicate 2010’s final numbers: an ERA just under 4.50 with 200+ innings. It’s realistic, but even I’m coming around to the fact that maybe he’s just not cut out for Boston. He doesn’t seem capable of taking responsibility and that’s a recipe for a career stall.
How about the Sox hire you as special assistant to Ben Cherrington? Your off-season moves not only seem well thought out, but entirely realistic.
I pretty much agree with Obsessions on this. First thing’s first, get the FO and coaching staff set. Offer Ortiz arbitration and let him walk (unless he’s willing to come back on a short term reasonably priced deal) and have a semi-rotating DH with Lavarnway as the primary DH. See if there is a deal out there that makes sense to get rid of Lackey. Sign a bunch of rebound candidates and injury risks. I’d also entertain the idea of a trial run of Bard in the rotation, which would mean potentially re-signing Papelbon, or signing one of the other free agent closers.
Part of me wonders though if the ownership will decide they need to make a splash this off-season to get the fans “excited” again, what with the recent fiasco and all.
I’m legitimately afraid of the offseason splash thing. There’s literally nothing out there I feel is worth making a splash for. I mean, yeah, we could grab Wilson or Sabathia, but the kind of money either of them would take to land in a Sox uniform (Especially Sabathia, getting him away from the Yankees would cost something like 8 years at $190MM) is so far beyond ludicrous that it’d basically cripple us four years down the road. So that nixes any real solid pitching acuisitions.
Aside from our offense being fine, you then get into the fact that the best offensive player on the market this offseason is Ortiz anyway.
I kind of wonder if they’ll try to make a splash by making a major trade or two, but yeah, the idea of them “making a splash” worries me too.
I suppose a trade is conceivable, but for what? The only “big splash” type pitcher (Which is all we really need) I could imagine being available is Ubaldo Jimenez, but he was awful in Cleveland and I doubt they’d sell low on him after giving up multiple quality prospects to get him. The market for trades for pitchers this offseason is honestly probably even worse than last year. Matt Cain is literally the only pitcher I can think of worth trading for who MAY conceivably hit the block and even if he does, it likely won’t be until mid-season if the Giants perform poorly out of the gate.
Beyond that, should there be a surprise pitcher available like say Nolasco or Garza or someone along those lines, we’re still going to have to compete with the Yankees for him and it’ll take gutting our farm to get him, which puts us in an even worse situation long term.
All told, I’m hoping against hope that the team goes along the same lines I would in standing pat on the lineup and signing as much random junk that can throw a fastball over 88 MPH as possible.
That is true, so take that part out of my earlier post(my fault for not researching deep enough), what does everyone think the Sox’ offseason moves should be like
Outside of a hot couple months, Salty wasn’t that great…
He’s still developing and he showed the ability is definitely there. He outperformed league average for the position and he’s likely only going to improve from here considering his age. There’s really nothing better out there and we’re no worse off than anyone else in the division with him. The only AL East catcher who definitively outperformed Salty last year was Weiters (Martin outWAR’ed him by about a half a win, but he had almost a hundred more plate appearances, both of them were exceedingly streaky).
At the least, he’s shown he has the talent to catch full time.
wOBA by month
.241 (awful)
.327 (league average)
.409 (badass)
.380 (kickass)
.321 (league average)
.234 (awful)
for a catcher? i accept
wOBA by month
.241 (awful)
.327 (league average)
.409 (badass)
.380 (kickass)
.321 (league average)
.234 (awful)
for a catcher? i accept
Outside of two thirds of the year, Salty wasn’t that great…
(fixed it for you)
Salty replaced by young talent? You realize he’s only two years older than Lavarnway, right?
You make a very good point. What do you think the sox will do to fix the pitching staff and put some production in RF? I was thinking of letting Papelbon walk and sign the slightly cheaper Ryan Madson, add debth by signing someone like Zumaya, trade away Lackey for whatever we can get, and sign someone like Maholm if the Pirates don’t take on his option (it looks doubtful that they will) or Edwin Jackson. And In my opinion for RF, I think signing Willingham for around 2-3 years and 4-7 million a year would be a solid platoon for Kalish/Reddick. And for DH, I realize Ortiz is the heart and soul of the red sox, but wouldn’t it make sense to let him walk and put Youk in the DH spot along with Lavarnway, and bring up Middlebrooks? That would save us 3 years and 13 million a year, and it would give us the opportunity to develop more young talent for when Youk and Salty are replaced by the young talent. What does everyone else think?
Wedge is the manager of the Mariners. Seattle would need to be compensated so doubt it would happen
I was hoping Wedge, the Mariners bench coach. But Damarlo Hale would be an interesting canidate…
Agree! Go get Dave Martinez, and while you’re there, swipe Jim Hickey away as well. And I’m being 100% serious. At least make an offer (not sure if they are under contract)
Oh man I’d love Jim Hickey in the mix as well. Get both of them here…boy that would be a giant step in the right direction.
Oh man I’d love Jim Hickey in the mix as well. Get both of them here…boy that would be a giant step in the right direction.
Agree! Go get Dave Martinez, and while you’re there, swipe Jim Hickey away as well. And I’m being 100% serious. At least make an offer (not sure if they are under contract)
a little off topic, but i’m watching the ALCS and i miss terry as an announcer. this other guy doesnt make sense. “Inge, a defensive 3rb basman, defensively for the tigers,…” haha
“This Other Guy”? Tim McCarver has been Bucks partner for years…he’s an A-Hole and wish they would cut bait w/ him….but it’s just funny you dont’ know who he is…..lol
They say the brain has the ability to block traumatic experiences from your memory.
Mind you, I’ve never actually seen Memento, but I’m just going to assume Tim McCarver was the antagonist from what I do know about it.
You think he’s bad? Try listening to his best buddy Chris Wheeler for 162 Games THEN listening to McCarver in the playoffs.
Tim McCarver: Inventor of the mute button.
or as he might call it, the bute mutton
Who is Gammons going to suck up to now since Tito and Boy Wonder are gone. Early favorite is Pedrioa.
Gammons: “Buy her a washing machine.”
-C
Gammons: “Matt Wieters is a retard.”
Gammons: “Wrigley Field is a dump.”
Well to be fair…
in before “lolz i called it”
in before “lolz i called it”
it was funny to hear all the talking heads saying ricketts extending fleita was going to be a problem for an experienced gm. fleita and wilken are the only ones who should have jobs. how many days until quade is fired?
Good Gawd, Gammons didn’t even know which side of the plate Jackson bats from. Just retire already you clown.
If I were a Red Sox fan, I’d rather take some cash from the Cubs and apply it towards a free agent starting pitcher. After Brett Jackson, the Cubs farm is not good.
The problem is that extra money doesn’t do much. The Sox have exhibited that they’re willing to go to the area of the luxury tax and not exceed it much, regardless of revenues. Taking cash pads the bottom line and that is effectively it. Henry’s never been cheap, so I don’t see where it helps the team at all.
If I were a Red Sox fan, I’d rather take some cash from the Cubs and apply it towards a free agent starting pitcher. After Brett Jackson, the Cubs farm is not good.
If we have to give up Brett Jackson so be it. I don’t know what everyone’s stuck on this guy anyway. I’ve been watching him play a good portion of the last two seasons at Tennessee and to be honest, he’s nothing special. Solid player? Yes. Future of a franchise? Absolutely NOT! He does alot of things well but nothing really stands out as being great. He is a borderline average center fielder defensively. Offensively he looked great as he got hot during his call up to AAA but he disappears completely often. He strikes out alot too. Lets not forget another true center field prospect the Cubs have in Matt Szczur. I could see him as the future in center field at Wrigley.
his bat is very good as a centerfielder, not so much at the corners
his bat is very good as a centerfielder, not so much at the corners
I feel like Szczur has more potential, but I doubt the Red Sox want any of the Cubs crappy prospects. Almost every single prospect not named Josh Vitters under performed in 2011. They’ll probably get cash and MAYBE a single A prospect that nobody has really heard of.
I feel like Szczur has more potential, but I doubt the Red Sox want any of the Cubs crappy prospects. Almost every single prospect not named Josh Vitters under performed in 2011. They’ll probably get cash and MAYBE a single A prospect that nobody has really heard of.
If we have to give up Brett Jackson so be it. I don’t know what everyone’s stuck on this guy anyway. I’ve been watching him play a good portion of the last two seasons at Tennessee and to be honest, he’s nothing special. Solid player? Yes. Future of a franchise? Absolutely NOT! He does alot of things well but nothing really stands out as being great. He is a borderline average center fielder defensively. Offensively he looked great as he got hot during his call up to AAA but he disappears completely often. He strikes out alot too. Lets not forget another true center field prospect the Cubs have in Matt Szczur. I could see him as the future in center field at Wrigley.
Also if its pitching that Boston wants I could see them asking for starter Trey McNutt and left handed reliever Jeff Beliveau. Beliveau is a strike out machine and could see him anchoring any major league team in the lefty setup role.
Also if its pitching that Boston wants I could see them asking for starter Trey McNutt and left handed reliever Jeff Beliveau. Beliveau is a strike out machine and could see him anchoring any major league team in the lefty setup role.
Where did you see those figures?
Victoria’s Secret
The Golden Banana
Where did you see those figures?
Brett Jackson? yeah right. Brett Jackson is not a superstar, but he’ll be a solid big leaguer who has a few above average years. No way the Red Sox will get him… Personally I’m still wondering what Theo Epstein has done to deserve his reputation? I don’t dislike him, but what genius moves has he made? The fact that the Sox were bankrupt in pitching when they needed it most, doesn’t sound encouraging to me.
He uh won two world series as a general manager..not many people know about that so I don’t blame ya for not knowing.
And Brian Cashman has won 4 WS’s so that makes him twice as good right? oh wait…
and only once since Theo took over the Sox
guess that one slipped your mind, but nice try at witty sarcasm.
oh my mistake then, so in 2000 brian cashman had 3 years of gm experience and 3 world series so hes clearly the greatest gm of all time. hows that?
You can try to spin it any way you like… the fact of the matter is the red sox winning world series doesnt automatically make epstein a great gm.
Especially when you consider the WS’s were won in both cases on other GM’s work… or a lot of help from steroids in both cases.
Well we all know the story about the sox, so it to me it’s different, but winning 4 WS, makes you a damn good gm in my book.
It also seems to me that every free agent he signs turns out to be a bust… he’ll be perfect for the Cubs.
Brett Jackson? yeah right. Brett Jackson is not a superstar, but he’ll be a solid big leaguer who has a few above average years. No way the Red Sox will get him… Personally I’m still wondering what Theo Epstein has done to deserve his reputation? I don’t dislike him, but what genius moves has he made? The fact that the Sox were bankrupt in pitching when they needed it most, doesn’t sound encouraging to me.
Brett Jackson will end up being a bum so let the Cubs stay with him.He is Colvin part 2.The money the Sox would get is going to be the great part of this deal
Good to know. Mind telling me how Barnes and Swihart will turn out while you’re prophesying?
Except they are two totally different players. Did that thought hurt leaving your head as much as it hurt mine comprehending it?
The Sox will be just fine
Um…Why is Cashman going to get a raise?
I believe he asked for one.
I love how Red Soxs fans think there getting B.Jack for theo!
There not, its posted on her,(probably mutiple times) that the Red Soxs are getting Cash…But please keep talking about getting him, its giving me a humorous read.
Correction, GAMMONS thinks we’re getting B Jack for Theo.
I hope Gammons is right. Jackson could be boston’s next right fielder!!!
Holy Cow, eat more chicken!
Would you knock that off. The closest CFA is outside of the 128 belt and a pain for me to get to on a weekday. I can’t have you going on and on about this stuff without developing serious stomach pains.
God, I want some waffle fries. Like now. And about three sandwiches.
FYI- I think there’s one in the North Shore Mall foodcourt, but I suppose technically that would be right on the belt, so maybe that’s the one you’re referring to.
There is, but the I was referring to Burlington, actually. Both are a pain to get to, but Peabody’s actually a bigger pain from the immediate Metro Boston area. It’s like an hour and a half on a bus to get there from inside the city and a traffic nightmare to drive there what with having to get through Saugus or Lynn to get there.
Gammons says something smart in the criticism of Theo is unfair, but naturally he has to say something stupid.
BRETT JACKSON!!! Yeah OK Peter, maybe the last stroke dislodged your common sense factor…Small amount of $$$, maybe $3-4mil and Rafael Dolis is the best your gonna do. Boston has no leverage in this situation…does anybody realize the situation??? GM wants out, doesn’t want to be a part of the organization, has a better offer and you are going to hold the Cubs over the fire for a top prospect…Really?!? Great move by Ricketts…even better that Kenney in moved out of baseball operations altogether. Remember Cubs the best draft signing #’s in recent memory. 18 out of top 20. 9 out of top 10. Dillon Maples… many thought wouldn’t be signable. Cubs picked him up in 14th round…he was going to Vanderbilt to be the next David Price, ask anybody how awesome their last draft was. Cubs will be competitive in 2 years and contending in 3.
or maybe they continue to be a miserable franchise, like they’ve been for the last 100 years. i’d rather watch the mariners beat up the athletics.
i wouldn’t have been so harsh but you’re dissing the guy because he had a stroke? what’s wrong with you dude
edit: no offense to cubs fans. just this one
Gammons buddy I highly doubt the Cubs give up their top prospect Matt Szczur is more realistic
That’s not even realistic.
Send them Colvin, barney, and cash. Please not jackson!
I’ll take sending them Soto since they need a catcher.
“I’ll take sending them Soto since they need a catcher. ”
Saltalamacchia’s 2011 wOBA: .319. 2011 WAR: 2.5Soto’s 2011 wOBA: .316. 2011 WAR: 2.1.
Soto underperformed Saltalamacchia in almost 100 more plate appearances and is two years older than Saltalamacchia. So, no, we don’t need a catcher to begin with, much less one who’s a downgrade from what we’re currently using.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Jackson project to be best fit in CF and not the corners outfield positions? With that being said, couldn’t you see Brett Jackson being dealt to Boston and flipped in a later deal?
Thanks Theo. You done good….
“Small amount of $$$, maybe $3-4mil and Rafael Dolis is the best your gonna do.”
-Wes
From every report I’ve read, the cash value going from the Cubs to the Red Sox will be in the same ballpark as the value of Epstein’s deal, between $15 and 20 million. In addition to that cash, the Red Sox would receive a prospect or multiple prospects.
Also, I’d be really impressed if Maples was contributing to a contending team in 2-3 years, considering he was drafted out of high school this year. I’m not saying the Cubs won’t compete in the next 3 years, but if you are depending on the last 2 drafts to make that happen, it’s a long shot.
I wouldn’t say the Cubs are depending on their last two drafts two compete, but their last draft was one of the top five in baseball. We as fans have every reason to be excited about it. There are four to five guys would could be contributors long term from the last two drafts.
That’s a lot to give up. If the prospect turns into something special, Cubs and Red Sox fans might both someday be rueing the curse of Theo
Im not saying Maples will be part of the contribution in 2-3 years, Im saying Theo will make other moves to bring the team to these expectations.
I highly doubt Red Sox want Jackson as the prospect in return (if they want propects). The Red Sox have an overpaid Crawford in left Ellsbury in Center and Kalish seems the heir apperant in right. If the Red Sox wanted a prospect I think they would want SS C SP areas they need help. Some want to ctiticize Theo for the bad moves (Crawford,Lackey) but living in Boston Theo might not have all the blame. There have been reports that upper management above Theo were telling Francona how to fill out his lineup,that being said it could be possible that these same people could suggested to Theo who to sign. Additionally , the Red Sox front office has throw Francona under the bus by stating his divorc and using pain killers affected his mangerial work. This will be a good move.
Why doesn’t this story have a “cubs” tag?