The Red Sox and Cubs are working toward an agreement that would send Theo Epstein to Chicago and one or more prospects to Boston. We learned earlier in the week that Epstein could bring former colleagues and current Padres executives with him to Chicago in a separate deal. Jed Hoyer, Josh Byrnes and Jason McLeod of the Padres worked with Epstein in Boston. Here's the latest on the negotiations with the most recent updates up top:
- "A lot would have to happen" for a final deal to be announced tomorrow, a source tells Scott Miller of CBSSports.com, though it's still possible. Miller also reports that Hoyer will receive a five-year contract, just like Epstein, and the Cubs will send the Padres "one or two lower-level minor leaguers" as compensation for Hoyer.
- The sides have agreed to "nothing" in terms of compensation, according to Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com.
- Epstein has been working at his Red Sox office all day, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (on Twitter).
- Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that Padres assistant general manager Jason McLeod will join Hoyer and Epstein in Chicago. McLeod was Boston's amateur scouting director under Epstein before leaving for San Diego with Hoyer after the 2009 season.
- The Red Sox are less optimistic than the Cubs that a deal for Epstein is near, according to Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald. "There seems to be a fundamental divide in the way the two clubs look at this," said Silverman's source.
- The Red Sox and Cubs are "finalizing" the deal, according to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com. They're expected to announce the deal tomorrow. It would not include Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt, Matt Szczur or cash. MLB has told the Cubs they can have a news conference tomorrow, a World Series travel day, according to Levine.
- However, Red Sox assistant GM Ben Cherington told Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe that reports of a deal are "premature" (Twitter link). Cherington says there's nothing new to report this morning.
- The Cubs will name Jed Hoyer their GM within a few days, according to Levine (Epstein would be the club's president of baseball operations). However, the Cubs have not officially asked for permission to interview Hoyer. The Padres will make Josh Byrnes their GM and won't demand compensation for losing Hoyer, according to Levine.
- The Red Sox and Cubs are making progress and the sides could announce a deal by tomorrow, according to Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe. Commissioner Bud Selig may allow the teams to make an announcement during the World Series so they can proceed with their offseason planning. The Red Sox are optimistic about reaching a settlement soon.
If they do come to an agreement I hope Selig does allow for an announcement. I feel like the off-season planning for both teams is being held hostage (especially the Cubs as the Sox have Cherington in the fold).
I think he will. These are big market teams and hugely important to Major League Baseball, financially. It’s not like it’s the Mariners and the Diamondbacks, no offense to those teams.
Disagree. Selig hasn’t made his life’s work for parity in baseball only to turn around and show favoritism towards “the best teams.”
It’ll get granted. He granted the announcement that the Ricketts had bought the Cubs during the World Series in 2009. If anything, it’ll spur more interest in baseball. I don’t see why he would deny the request.
Especially since the announcement is less of a distraction than the situation being unresolved.
You’re probably right, he would let the Mariners and Diamondbacks make an announcement as well.
The funny thing? probably more interest in the results on “Epstein-Gate” than the snoozer of a WS matchup. You just know that MLB had a fit when the Yanks were knocked out early, meaning ratings would tumble regardless of who was left, then the Phillies getting knocked out, finishing off any hopes of having viewers to amount to much.
Unfortunate for those “baseball fans” It’s going to be a good series.
It’s definitely good baseball to watch, because both teams are really good and have interesting matchup questions to answer. But no one can deny that ratings are always influenced by having big market teams or known powehouses.
As often as the cards are a postseason factor, I think of them as a known powerhouse, but the fact that they slid in to the playoffs at the last second when Philly was the favorite all year long hurts their draw a bit.
Regardless, I’m hoping for a good series, maybe one with some more scoring than usual.
stlouis has NOTHING but fair weather fans, the “best fans in baseball” are not the cardinals, It’s the fans who stick by their team no matter what who are best, all fans in general. STL fans are arrogent, think they are better than the yankees, think that becoming a cardinal makes you a better player!? This is all true, and its to hard for the stl “fans” to stomach, like thier cardinal pe e beer.
Cardinal fans are definitely not “arrogent,” that’s a fact…
Personally, I think arrogent is the perfect way to describe Cardinals fans. They’re frequently pretty high on themselves, but they’re entirely gentlemanly about it.
You mean they’re British?!
In the way in which you describe them, wouldn’t that make them “arrogant” then?
Picking on a spelling error makes YOU arrogant, I would say.
Sorry, double post.
i think you just drank pee beer from the brewers.
I think you have some issues. My comment in no way was arrogant or even about the Cardinals. It’s going to be a great series that true baseball fans will enjoy. IM glad you know that I’m a fair weather fan. In fact you should look at my history on here. Its like i just started watching baseball
I’m a die hard Cub fan and I’m rooting for Texas in this series. But I gotta say, your claim that Cardinal fans are fair weather is way off base. The Cardinals have one of the most loyal fan bases in the game.
This year I feel it is safe to say the Cardinals are better than the Yankees, how did the Yankee’s do in the ALDS? What? in how many games? ohhhh, you see the Cardinals went a little further, they actually went to the NLCS, you know with a “C”, and then all they did was made it to the World Series.
great game last night. that guy rzyp…. is for real! Let’s go Cards!!
Red Zep is rockin
yeah. It’s not a knock on the teams, but even a Cardinals fan has to realize that the large market teams are a bonanza for TV ratings. Was looking at it from that perspective only.
Edit:
As in the next time securing a larger, or as large TV deal from the networks as everyone knows that market share will be brought up and having a WS that will more than likely have poor all around viewership (as compared to one with several large market teams) will affect the amount regardless and everyone knows those ratings are thrown about.
Absolutely. The ratings cannot be argued, but i feel true baseball fans will really enjoy this series. The fans that are only interested when the big market teams are in it probly don’t care which prospect is going to Boston either.
Perhaps the only time I’ll ever agree with you, but I was flipping btw the game and the senior circuit bingo match and by 10:00PM EST both lost to American Horror Show, which was awesome. I read several article this morning how this could be one of the worst rated WS in modern day TV. It’s kinda unfortunate, because even us as fans of the big market teams want more contenders only to realize it’s very localized whereas the Sox, Yanks, Phillies, Dodgers and even the Cubs are global brands.
All that means is all the “fair weather fans” as all the haters put it have other things to do, real baseball fans are watching the game, and are even on this site to follow other baseball news.
You do realize MLB ratings, world series included, have been on a steady decline year to year for the past like ten years if I remember correctly. Baseball is not americas game anymore. Football year in and year out destroys baseball in ratings. If baseball where to maybe shorten the season down to 150 games. Throw some mandated double headers in there to shorten the actual amount of days the season is. Go back to the 5-5-5 playoff matchup or at least 5-5-7. Then the season, playoffs and world series included could end mid october. Than maybe it would get better ratings
It’s not really fair to compare baseball’s rating to football’s, they are two completely different things. Baseball is played essentially every day, while football is played once a week, making a football game more of an “event,” not to mention the fact that there are only 16 games vs 162 for baseball. And then when you talk about the playoffs football is one game, winner take all while baseball uses 5-7 game series and at least attempts to flush out who the best team actually is. That’s where “any given Sunday” comes from because literally any team could win on any given day; they don’t really even attempt to find the “best” team in football.
Ah yes.. I understand that.. BB is like behind even the NBA as recall and that is unfathomable IMO… pretty soon even Hockey will be ahead of it if something is not done. the days of BB as THE sport has not been that long either, like slowly started in the 70’s with FB, then they allowed basketball to pass it somehow..
That brings up the question of cause, since to me it started about the time and more teams, not more broadcast games.
The idea of extra playoff games would probably have to be done by removing regular season games because of severe cold weather places that do not have domed stadiums. Try to get owners to cut down on home ticket revenue to add a couple extra playoff games for a lucky few teams.. Don’t get me wrong, it has always been an excellent idea, as was the 154 ame schedule teams played before owners got greedy 40 years ago and expanded the schedule to 162 games.
Force owners to go with a 154 gamer, then do the revised playoffs, but then once again try and get that by teams like NYY, Boston, Philly that actually put people in the seats every game.
Why the league needs a REAL commissioner like Bowie Kuhn was, rather than the current patsy who not only looks like Harry Reid, but is as spineless as he is also.
McCarver is MORE of a reason to NOT watch the WS…..IF a baseball fan doesn’t watch the WS b/c of the teams in it….shouldn’t call themselves baseball fans…
“Strike is a five letter word”. Its like he tries to be awful.
“I feel like the off-season planning for both teams is being held hostage”
I just find that to be an interesting statement since “held hostage” is by both the Sox and Cubs own doing. I hope Selig doesn’t allow the announcement and no special treatment.
Rome was built in less time.
Apparently so was earth.
and so was the Marlins new stadium
I’m already annoyed that these negotiations have taken so long. It was great to ask for Garza at the start, even if it was clearly unrealistic. But to have taken nearly a week to reach an agreement is just tedious, it doesn’t make sense that they haven’t agreed on a low- to mid-level prospect and just be done with it.
Because Boston doesn’t want a low to mid-level prospect. haha
they should be happy with whatever they can get at this point. something is better than holding onto an unhappy theo for a year and then he just walks away
this seems like a new and exciting argument. care to engage?
Bud might even let them announce it during the World Series because they won’t have the CBA ready in time. He wanted to announce the new CBA during the World Series at it would raise some more interest and would also bring more attention to the actual championship. Now he can use this story for the same purpose instead.
Every time I see these posts I think of the “Airplane!” scenes when everyone tries to kill themselves while he’s talking to them. For the love of God please get a deal done
“I’ve developed a drinking problem.” *sploosh*
Looks like I picked a bad day to quit taking amphetamines.
i dont see why he would allow them to announce..and whats the big deal with announcing. A. The rule is in place for a reason..dont triumph the world series
B. Once the deal is approved by the MLB its not like they cant start working anyways..why does there need to be an official announcement to the world?
Im over this whole cubs/redsox thing..no one cares..lets move on..this is my last comment to this subject (not that any of you care)
I doubt this will be your last comment. If people like yourself didn’t care, they wouldn’t comment on these news threads. I’ve got $50 on it. haha
Dru, no one cares? Cmon man. We will miss you terribly.
ok ok…you guys talked me into..ill keep commenting…i just wanted tyler to win his $50
Thanks Drew. I only accept PayPal. haha
Yeah, two of the biggest fan bases in sports are no one.
The rule is dumb. There are enough news outlets nowadays to handle announcements during the WS
In fact, since they know a minimum of 4 games will be played, they should announce the 4 major awards (mvps, cyys) 1 each day during the WS. you know, when people are actually thiniknig about baseball still. Might give joe Buck something to talk about during a boring 4th inning too.
Joe Buck talks way too much during a ball game. Almost like Hawk Harrelson does. haha
The problem with Hawk Harrelson is he stops talking when the Sox are losing. He pouts. And he blames the umpires too much. An umpire might miss a ball/strike call in the first inning and he will tell you the rest of the game how that changed the game. Although, I do admit he did less of that this year. Maybe Steve Stone told him that he sounded like a baby.
At least listening to hawk is eased by having steve stone. He is awesome he is level headed. Doesn’t play favorites like hawk and is a great baseball mind. With buck yours stuck with mccarver
The combination of Buck and McCarver make my ears bleed.
Agree. I seriously can’t listen to McCarver. I have to mute the TV. For me the only thing worse then listening to McCarver is listening to Buck Martinez.
ya, Buck is really bad. When I watch the jays games, I just mute the TV and listen to the FAN with Jerry Howarth and Alan Ashby(probably the best tandem in the game).
Did you hear last night when he said the word STRIKE has five letters in it? hahaaha
It does. It also has six.
Try listening to Chris Wheeler for 162 games… He’s Tim McCarver without the MLB Playing Experience.
They’re both best friends too so Wheels likes to bring up how great of a baseball mind Tim McCarver is every now and then.
Friend of mind brought up a great point before game one. This is a bad call by fox letting these two announce this game. Joe bucks dad was a legendary announcer for the cards and McCarver came up as a catcher with the cards and I believe was an assistant coach for them at one point. They show clear bias towards the cards. Or maybe it’s all a ploy. The game is rigged and the cards already know they are going to win in 6 and then the announcers can freak out b
Didn’t the Brewer’s play by play guy call the NLCS for TBS?
I think that’s because Brian Anderson is a great play by play guy and a true pro, sadly things that don’t apply to Buck and McCarver. Worse, ESPN radio is trying to hurt us too. Dan Schulman is/was great to listen to with Orel Hersheiser (sp?) then they had to add Bobby Valentine to the WS crew. Guh.
I wouldn’t call him great but I think he does a good job. I was just making a comment that he thinks those guys are biased towards the Cardinals but TBS had the Play-By-Play guy of their biggest rival (this season).
_________
Talking about biased announcing though… Dick Stockton and Bob Brenly were so Cardinals biased it was unreal. “Oh can’t say I disagree with you about the strike zone Tony.”… “Got anything to get off your chest today Tony?” Give me a break… I was ecstatic when they had Smoltz and Darling do the final game of that series.
I don’t need to here somebody compliment my team, I can do that myself. Despite how I post here sometimes, I’m not a complete homer, I get passionate about my team but, I like to think of myself as sort of rational for a Philadelphia Sports fan… but the Color Analyst had a legit man crush on Tony La Russa. Other than the quality of the Phillies at bats that series, Brenly was the most annoying part of watching those games. (Rant over now).
In general though, everybody is against “our team” as fans. Like everyone in Philadelphia thinks Joe Buck hates our teams.
John Kerry, is that you?
Somebody’s got to drown out McCarver…
Or just drown him?
Press conference scheduled for Friday…Minor League talent only…
Sounds like McNutt was not involved either, and no cash compensation. Got to hand it to Ricketts, he did a good job negotiating. I wouldn’t have been to broken up about giving them McNutt, but it’s always good to have an arm. He might find control and become a decent starter. Let’s hope…
“Sounds like McNutt was not involved either”
Source? Everyone’s pointing toward Dave Kaplan who’s said nothing of McNutt not being involved, in fact he’s saying it will include “value” and posits that McNutt is his first assumption.
Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago is saying McNutt, Jackson, and Szczur are not involved. I am not sure how reliable he is because I do not read ESPNChicago often enough.
Boo on that. Really not much I give a crap about in the Cubs system outside of them. The picks from their latest draft can’t be moved until June, right?
Kaplan claims the Sox got “value” so either Levine is wrong or Kaplan has been following the Cubs for so long that he doesn’t quite understand what “value” is.
The only person I could think of is Ryan Flaherty maybe someone they look at….other than that…I am not sure…
Ehhh, not sure I like what I see. He’ll be 26 in July and JUST hit AAA last year and didn’t exactly excel there. His stats are remarkably inconsistent throughout the minors to the point his ceiling looks like it could be anywhere from Tulo to Scutaro which is a pretty wide gulf. I can’t find much about his fielding, but unless it’s above average, he doesn’t seem to fit our needs particularly well. Additionally, the Cubs seem to have been moving him more towards second base, which would make him completely useless to us. He looks like he may have utility guy written all over him at this point.
I realize that nothing I say has any affect, and beating this drum isn’t going to accomplish anything, but I’m going to beat it anyway: I hope they decided to go after a few lottery ticket guys from the lower minors, the Cubs have some guys down there with tons of potential.
I agree with you, but I seriously doubt that the Sox brass are going to settle for that.
You might be right, but I really think they should. They could probably get 3 of those guys, so the chances of at least one of them working out would be relatively good, and any one of them would have a higher upside than anyone who has been talked about so far.
The Sox should look at it as the 7MM they save on Theo this season can go straight to overslotting on the draft.
Why should they do that? I sincerely doubt it’s going to make a difference to the bottom line, we’re already going to overslot the everliving crap out of our picks. From a fanbase perspective, cash considerations are COMPLETELY useless unless they involve the Cubs taking on roster-based salary.
We don’t need cash, dude. We have cash coming out of our ears. We don’t want to save money. We’d rather send Theo to Japan for a year than just “let” you have him. We’re gonna get top prospects, or Theo’s gonna get tabled. Its your choice.
We’ll have to wait and see. Kaplan and Levine are rarely right.
maybe the Cubs offered Bartman as compensation for Jed Hoyer?
I can assure you that at least 2 of the 3 are a requirement for any deal to get done.
If it’s Mcnutt and Marshall, then no Sox fan has a right to complain! One can only hope right!
McNutt and Reed Johnson, perhaps.
According to Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live, Kenny and Lucchino have done all of the negotiating.
Heard that too. Don’t know about Lucchino, but I can understand why it has taken so long with a guy like Crane Kenney spearheading this thing. Kenney is known for meddling in baseball business, pretty much like Lucchino. He was apparently under the impression that he was going to be more in charge of baseball operations this next season. I’m glad Ricketts nixed that idea. But I can see struggles between Epstein and Kenney, just like Epstein and Lucchino. I really hope they just send Crane packing and start a new page completely. He’s just as implicit as Jim Hendry.
“Kenney is known for meddling in baseball business, pretty much like Lucchino. ”
This makes sense. Maybe Henry and Ricketts were just hoping they’d kill each other or, failing that, intended to just fill the room with poison gas, but couldn’t get their hands on any before an agreement was reached.
One could only dream of such favorable outcomes…
this brings new light to the compensation debate. Cubs can have Theo for free if they take Lucchino’s lifeless corpse with him.
we’ll keep the lifeless corpse known as Lackey back here in Boston
Kenny is to valuable to the business side of the Wrigley Field renovation and Wrigleyville expansion. His situation is very similar to Oneri Fleita’s involvement with the Cubs’ Dominican Republic facility. I do agree that Kenny should be as far away from baseball operations as possible.
Yeah, but as long as he’s in the organization, he’ll want to meddle in baseball business. I don’t know what Ricketts can do, but whatever it is, he should do it. I don’t want another Epstein-Lucchino situation.
That said, you’re right. He is a major part of the Wrigleyville expansion and therefore probably won’t leave. Just give him an office in an adjacent building, on the roof tops or something. Better yet, give him a lavish office in downtown Chicago. Just get him away from the baseball decisions.
Nope.
I’m shocked nothing has leaked short of NorthSide Irish’s post 3 min’s ago.
Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago Tweeted about the press conference…he’s got a short article on ESPN.com about the deal being close. Dave Kaplan of CSN Chicago reported the compensation part…
None of which is true. Cafardo, Abraham and McAdams on the Boston side refute all of it, down to who is in play, whether they are close, and when an announcement may come. Its all wishful thinking on the Cubs part. The Sox are not settling for anything less than multiple top prospects.
Tom Ricketts kept his firing of Hendry quiet for a month. The guy knows how to keep things from getting out. Controls information really well. Everything we’ve heard from these negotiations have essentially all come from the Red Sox side.
That’s not really true; they have leaked what the Sox are asking for pretty much every step of the way, they have leaked things about how difficult Lucchino has been to deal with, and they leaked the fact that they wanted Theo over a month ago (and long before they even asked to talk to him).
From what I’ve heard, the info is mostly coming from the Red Sox. I guess it’s all hearsay, but I can say for sure that we’ve not heard from Ricketts. Everyone expected him to go after Theo (but he never confirmed it), and I do believe it was Boston media or Red Sox people that leaked that the Cubs asked for permission. Ever since then, everything has been quiet on the Cubs front. I can only go from what I’ve seen/heard, and frankly, WEEI has become my go-to radio station during this thing because they’ve had the most information. Chicago stations are only reciting things, they aren’t breaking any news.
I don’t know exactly where the news that the Cubs were going to go for Theo came from, but I know it came long before they ever actually asked for permission, and I also know that Chicago reporters have been reporting every step of the way what the Sox have been asking for for compensation. All that has come out of Boston reporters about compensation is “Brett Jackson dood! He’s an awesome right handed outfielder, which is just what the Red Sox need.” They’ve never done anything more than speculate about what the Sox might want.
Yeah, I don’t know. I just feel like the tangible things like the granting permission is really the only thing that was confirmed, everything else is just a bunch of fluff. Also, Brett Jackson is a left-handed hitting CF. I’m sure both parties are leaking stuff, but I have heard lots of things from Henry and none from Ricketts. I guess that’s where I base my opinion.
Yeah, I know Jackson is a lefty, but one of the Boston writers (Gammons I think) said that the Sox will ask for him because he is a righty outfielder and the Sox need one…
Yeah, believe it or not, I actually believe guys on here know more baseball than most writers.
for all the huffing over gammons comment on mcnutt being the 25th best sox prospect, kevin goldstein weighed in to say mcnutt would be “somewhere in the top 15”
gammons still doesn’t know what he’s talking about where cubs prospects are concerned, but i was surprised by goldstein’s modest review
Where do you personally think McNutt would rank with the Sox? Top 10?
yea, 8-10. i’d consider him the third best pitching prospect in the boston system
Now that it’s supposedly done I’ll be curious to hear who they settled on. McNutt would be nice, not 100% sure they’re going to get him though. Keeping the fingers crossed.
given that every media person in those two huge markets has nothing better to do right now, there’s a conspicuous lack of details for something that’s “done”. i’m wondering if edes’ tweet had more to do with the san diego angle being resolved
edit: sure enough, edes just tweeted that he was referring to the hoyer-byrnes issue
Top 5 certainly. He was a higher rated prospect than any on Red Sox going into 2011.
by baseball america only. and then he had an awful year
I don’t think it’s all that surprising where Goldstein puts him, personally I’d put him at probably 12 which falls in the top 15 category. He’s got a lot of potential, but the control issues are pretty concerning.
He’d likely be the 3rd best pitching prospect going into next season, but if Britton shows he can gain control of his pitches again I’d probably move him ahead of McNutt.
Why? McNutt has no pedigree, he was a late round pick who experienced one year of great results. He’s a poor man’s Drake Britton, who is the Red Sox #16 prospect according to soxprospects.com…McNutt would slot somewhere from #14-20 in the Red Sox system. He has the upside to be a mid rotation starter, probability of being an impact relief arm, and a chance to be Andrew Miller version 2.0
I think Gammons was referring to Reed Johnson.
He could have been, but he said Brett Jackson.
Not true at all. The Cubs side has continually leaked bogus claims about who is not in play in these negotiations. Every single guy that has been mentioned as not being included is definitely still in play from the Sox perspective. We are not close to a resolution at all.
You may be right, but you can’t know for sure. Besides, whether it’s Francona’s pain killers, fried chicken and beer in the clubhouse or even beer in the dugout, it’s not like the Red Sox have been able to contain leaks anyway. So it’s not like you have anything to stand on when it comes to blaming leaks on other organizations.
Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago Tweeted about the press conference…David Kaplan of CSN Chicago reported the compensation part. I should be sure to give credit.
Kaplan seems to contradict reports that McNutt isn’t involved. Latest I can find (Between CSN Chicago’s site and his Twitter) is
“Will not include ML talent but will include value but not Brett Jackson”
He says nothing about McNutt not being included, in fact his first assumption seems to be McNutt.
It was Bruce Levine that was reporting McNutt, Szczur and B-Jax were not involved. He’s one of the few sources I actually do trust for consistent information. Kap can be hit or miss at the time.
If his report is true, I am very much for this. LL is way off in his expectations and I doubt the MLB will let this deal set too high of a bar for compensation for promoted front office people. Sorry Red Sox fans, however much you love Theo and think he will succeed in Chicago, he’s not going to net the Cubs entire farm system.
So, it sounds like McNutt is not involved in deal. So reports Cubs beat reporter Bruce Levine (ESPN Chicago). It appears that the Cubs played hardball and got away with minimal damage, despite a blunder by Cubs president Crane Kenney (another idiot). Levine also reports there is no financial compensation from Cubs.
“There seems to be a fundamental divide in the way the two clubs look at this.”
I think the Cubs have no idea what’s going on at this point, and are just assuming that a deal is done.
As a Cubs fan, I wouldn’t be surprised. In fact, I’m almost expecting something to blow up on them any minute now.
as of an hour ago, john henry deemed things “not close”. seems clear that the cubs are leaking reports, but i don’t think it’s a careless mistake. seems more like a ploy, which is interesting
Right on time. Hehe. What a crapshow.
i think you should still be very happy today. getting epstein and hoyer and mcleod is an amazing leap forward. you could lose your top 2 prospects (you won’t) and still come out on top here. i would be a veeery excited cubs fan right now
I am amped. I haven’t been so excited as a Cubs fan in years…
I just wanna find John Henry and kiss him on the lips, but somehow I think he’s not a man that would appreciate that. I might not be able to kiss Henry, but I’ll find Ricketts one day, maybe when he’s down at the gates shaking hands with fans (because he’s done that before). If I see him, I’m making a B-line for him and tell him “Don’t take this the wrong way, but there is something I have to do” and I’ll lay one on the lips. I’m married, I’m secure in my masculinity, so I have no problem kissing another man. Especially when he’s deserved it. Hehe.
I think the Red Sox should send Lackey, Crawford and Gonzalez over with Theo for nothing and sign Pujols.
Put the breaks on Cherington Boston, Chris Lima is an even better candidate for GM!
No thanks. Gonzo is good enough…we don’t need to spend extra money on Pujols. And what’s up with all the hate on Crawford? I understand hating Lackey, but Crawford could easily turn it around.
He dropped the ball, both literally and figuratively.
The Crawford hate needs to turned to the bosox. They went out and signed a guy long term who has played on turf his entire career not smart. He will
Look like Vlad by the end of the deal. Also Fenway does not play to any of his strengths. His fielding, one of his best assets, is killed by the monster) and any power he has is low line drive power( why they lowered the walls at the trop) is also killed by the monster. Just a bad bad signing.
I wouldn’t say so. First of all I’m pretty sure that people say the transition from grass to turf is way worse than the other way around. But also, it’s not like home run power was every Crawford’s forte… so forget the Monster. If anything give him a couple more doubles. Lackey sucks and needs to be removed ASAP, but I’m willing to bet Crawford bounces back. As to whether or not that will last another 5 seasons after this year… we’ll see haha
I might get crap for this but I think Gonzalez is more than “good enough,” I’d actually prefer him to Pujols. Pujols is very likely the better player next year, and probably the year after that, but based on their ages I’d be willing to bet that Gonzalez is the better player of the life of their respective contracts.
Absolutely. Nobody should give you crap for that. Having watched Pujols first-hand for 10 years, he’s awesome, it’s as simple as that. However, I agree with everything you said. I just don’t understand the Gonzalez hatred beyond the fact that he blamed the collapse on injuries and made up excuses. All he did was post the best year of his career, which you would expect since the Red Sox lineup eats the Padres lineup for breakfast. Career high in hits, runs and slugging. Sure he grounded into a ton of DPs and he didn’t hit 40 dingers, but that happens. As cavernous as Petco is compared to Fenway Park, there is a 307 feet (Petco) to 380 feet (Fenway) difference in right field, which doesn’t exactly benefit a lefty slugger. Even with that, he posted a career year, so I absolutely do not understand the need to get rid of one of your best players.
“Sure he grounded into a ton of DPs and he didn’t hit 40 dingers, but that happens.”
Oh god, so many Sox fans whined about this all season. So infuriating. General rule of thumb: you will hit into more double plays when traded to a team that actually knows how to get on base.
just return him to boston and let them deal with him. boston cheapos are trying to make a fortune out of this fiasco.
I wonder if Ryan Flaherty is one of the prospects going to the Sox…he is from Portland it would be cool to see him play for the Sea Dogs.
So none of the Cubs top 3 prospects are in involved, okay, so what the hell has taken them so long then?
Who knows, but there were reports several days ago that the hold up was more about who was going to Chicago with Theo, so it could have been that (also, the compensation would likely have been dependent on how many people went with him and who they were).
And now Boston is saying no deal has been reached…
nickcafardo Nick Cafardo Sox GM (to be) Ben Cherington said reports of a deal between Sox and Cubs on Epstein are “premature. Haven’t heard anything this morning.”
Cafardo doesn’t know if he is on foot or horseback half of the time….
Not only is Cafardo the worst sports writer in Boston, I consider him to be perhaps the worst in the nation. The other day, which is public for all to read — he actually felt that there could be potential to trade Lester and Youk for Felix Hernandez. So a slightly lesser pitcher and a guy that’s a walking bandage wrap with little cost savings and he felt this was a legit idea? I though the Felix proposals I made up were insane, but that takes the prize.
2 things. 1 calling lester only a slightly less pitcher than Felix means you deserve a glove slap to the face 2 you’re not a writer your allowed to make insane trades nits what’s makes this site fun and funny all of us making dumb proposals. Like Dunn for elsbury. He is a professional. He should he fired.
Well I’ll agree that Cafardo has no future in sports writing, but for you to say I deserve a slap for calling Lester a “slightly less pitcher” over Felix is wrong, I don’t understand that. Felix has a Cy Young under his belt, he is younger and has better numbers overall. If I said something like Lester couldn’t stand on the same mound as Felix, sure then perhaps that would be out of line, but that’s not what I said. Lester is a very good pitcher, perhaps top 10 in the AL (although he really didn’t increase his stock in 2011). If you gave me a list of pitchers in the AL. Felix goes 1st and Lester 2nd (hence slightly less). I don’t think I’m wrong in saying this.
I think he’s saying that you gave Lester too much credit, not too little.
He’s a White Sox fan by the way.
ohhh right on. If that’s the case then I apologize.
I’d still say you are right though, looking at their numbers since ’08 they are relatively close in any statistic you look at, with Lester only slightly behind Felix in pretty much all of them, and when you account for ballparks and leagues I think you were right when you said Lester is a slightly lesser pitcher than Felix.
What does being a whitesox fan have to do with anything? I’m first and foremost a baseball fan. I just happen to like the sox. I’m also not one of those stupid sox fans who thinks they can win year in and year out. And yes he did give Lester too much credit. But only a little too much. He is a good pitcher but to say he is #2 in te al is a little fan boy ish there.
Because I thought he might think you were a Red Sox fan, seeing as how he thought you were saying he give Lester too little credit.
Also, he’s a Yankee fan so I don’t think he’s being “fan boy ish” (← did this for the same reason I told him you were a White Sox fan)
@Century:disqus – a red sox fanboy? hahahaahaha now I’ve seen/heard everything!
Right?
didnt know he was a yankees fan until now…i take back the fan boy comment
I’d rather sit through a weekend of Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin debates before I said anything positive or have any affiliation with the Red Sox.
gotcha its all good..
I think verlander, weaver, and cc would have an issue with Lester being #2 in the al. And I think lincecum, halladay, lee, Cain, jj, greinke might have issues with him being in the too ten in the game. Again I think Lester is good but not nearly as good youre making him out to be.
I happen to agree with you, but I tried to be as diplomatic as possible without a riot claiming that Lester just isn’t a top TOP shelf pitcher at this moment. I’d take him on my team tomorrow, but yes his #1 status on the Red Sox has been in jeopardy recently.
all of the redsawx pithcers status have been in jeopardy recently…He is a good pitcher he isnt in the ACE status yet in my opinion but he is in that second level of top pitchers
There is disagreement even among Red Sox fans about whether Lester is a true ace or not. The results at the end of the year would suggest that he is, but some people see him having a bad stretch that lasts a month, or see him only going 6 innings too often and think that those things keep him from really being in the same category as guys like Sabathia and Verlander, who generally don’t have those things happen.
This really is a good topic with what is happening right now. As I said, I would take Lester to be my #2 behind CC in a blink of an eye, tomorrow. But there is something unsettling about Lester and I just can’t put my finger on it. Not his character in the least bit. The guy is perfect baseball player and really seems to own up to himself and seems like a gentleman. What’s going on falls squarely on Beckett and Lackey imo. That said, I just don’t get Lester and his consistency. He has shown so many times he is so close to being a true TRUE front line ace, but just comes up short. Maybe the truth is that he really isn’t an ace like Halladay or CC or Lee, Verlander, etc. Maybe his ceiling really is as a #2 and in a few years, #3. Like I said though, I’d take him in a heartbeat, but not to lead my staff.
and again sorry for calling you a bosawx fan boy..i didnt know you were a yankees fan
Just the fact you and I had an agreeable debate (or for that matter with anyone on here) has already made my day.
Good to know…I wasn’t really familiar with him before all this compensation drama began. Sounds like I wasn’t exactly missing out.
I think we have the plot for a seventh season of LOST on our hands at this point.
I just started watching LOST on Netflix at the beginning of this week. That show is freaking awesome!
“The Cubs will name Jed Hoyer their GM within a few days, according to Levine. However, the Cubs have not officially asked for permission to interview him.”
Is this not the definition of putting the cart before the horse?
Actually, the owner of the Padres, Jeff Moorad, preferred Byrnes all along. Used to be his GM when he owned the D-Backs. Hoyer was hired before Byrnes left Arizona and came to the Padres. So, according to Levine, Moorad is completely onboard and once Hoyer leaves, he wants to put Byrnes back in the GM spot.
What’s odd is that Levine said there would be no compensation from the Cubs, which sounds weird. Probably means it’ll be just cash.
This has apparently been talked about since Spring Training, or at least that’s what Levine reports. So, it does sounds like Tom Ricketts have been masterminding this thing for quite a while.
Since there doesnt seem to be any “worthwhile” prospects from the Cubs to the Red Sox, maybe this deal will involve the Cubs taking on one of the Red Sox’ bad salaries…. Lackey? Crawford??
Only if you take Soriano’s.
I’ll give you Lackey and Crawford for Soriano and a bad salary to be named later.
Your mother wears army boots
Maybe Josh Vitters?
Eh, likewise useless to us outside of a trade elsewhere. Our top prospect is a third baseman with slightly better MiLB career numbers.
I know the Red Sox have plenty of money. However, wouldn’t saving 7 mill by letting Theo go, combined with, say 6 mill in compensation from the Cubs be better than a mid range prospect from a bad farm system?
To the fanbase? No. Cash is useless. Henry’s not cheap, he’s going to spend and spend and spend regardless of what money we’re sent.
Accepting just cash is about the only way that Lucchino could piss off the fanbase any more than we already are this offseason.
I agree, Cubs fans think cash is solution. They dont realize prices to Red Sox games or the $6 hotdog with an $8/12oz beer. There would be a serious Occupy Fenway movement, with tents appearing around 2nd base. Money works fine from Chicago standpoint, not Boston.
Sounds like a pretty crappy deal, unless we somehow nabbed a major leaguer instead. Oh well. Just glad this is finally over.
Getting one of the Cubs major leaguers would ,more than likely, be equally crappy.
The best asset we have to offer is cash. I know the Sox are already up to their eye balls in cash. Still, take the Cubs money, buy a year or two of a decent free agent and sell it to the fans that way.
I’d be happy with Marshall.
CASH doesn’t work!!! What part of that are you guys missing. If you think it does, lets flip it. How about Epstein and 30million and we get Garza. Doubt any Cub fan would go for that. The last time Boston took only a lump sum and no players to complete a trade, it involved a guy named Babe. Enough said?
Not certain off the top of my head, but I’m reasonably sure that players came back in the Ruth trade.
No no no, he’s talking about the time we traded the pig Babe to the Pirates for $50. Not sure why that’s relevant though…
The problem with that line of thought is that everyone knows the Sox were going to hit around luxury tax next season. No free agent signing is going to make simply cash look good to the fanbase.
Again, Henry’s never been cheap. The guy came in, paid big money to get the Sox, immediately starting dumping money into Fenway rennovations and spending big money on the MLB roster, scouting, development, drafting, pretty much throwing money around across the board. There’s really not much wrong with this franchise that a little more money will resolve.
Red Sox not as optimistic as the Cubs? Yeah, since apparently the deal that has been leaked so far doesn’t include any of the three decent Cubs prospects, I’m not surprised. I get the feeling Chicago tried to get Boston to agree to a smaller deal just by telling people something had been agreed upon. 😛
I would LOVE it if the speculation if a deal is close or not would stop and not post ANY stories until there is actually something to TRULY report…..but I know that won’t happen b/c all these “reporters” want to say “LOOK AT ME I WAS RIGHT 1st”
what part of MLBT”rumors” don’t you get?
Apparently nobody in the Cubs organization can keep their mouths shut. All these reports are coming out of Chicago while the Sox have maintained radio silence until the deal is done (like the almost always do). So a deal is getting done, but the deal is premature, and they were thinking about bringing over Jed Hoyer but now they actually are….It really makes me value the news that comes out of the Sox camp a little more because I know it’s going to be mostly fact and not mostly rumor.
mlbtradefacts …just doesn’t have that same ring to it
Will Tim sue the crap out of me if I go make that site?
“If it’s been reported by every news source and been officially announced by all parties involved, press conference and all, we hear it.”
What about MLBtradmisconceptions?
Unless the Sox get at least one top prospect, then their negotiating skills are about as good as most of their free agent signings.
Looks like Kaplan’s now admitting that his report was greatly exaggerated:
“Deal not signed off by BoSox. No presser yet scheduled but deal will get done. Still hopeing for Fri but not guaranteed.” Source: Kaplan’s twitter.
Soooo, we’re effectively where we were this morning and pretty much the same place we’ve been since Tuesday.
San Diego is becoming Arizona so gradually. Sometimes it is so hard to continue to root for this team, but after so many years invested in them I can’t just jump ship at yet another disappointment.
Wow, the Cubs are putting together quite the front office. It will translate into success shortly.
Sincerely,
Saddened Red Sox fan.
The Mets have a mega front office and look whats happening to them!
“Epstein has been working at his Red Sox office all day, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (on Twitter).”
If reports from some of the best and brightest on this site are to be taken seriously, the work has been him working dilligently on trade paperwork to send Dustin Pedroia to the Cubs in exchange for Alfonso Soriano, just in case.
According to Bruce Levine
“The Red Sox aimed high in asking for compensation for Epstein. A baseball source told ESPNBoston.com that they initially asked for the Cubs young star shortstop Starlin Castro. Whey they were rebuffed, the Red Sox asked for arguably the Cubs best starting pitcher in Matt Garza.”
I thought asking for Garza was a little farfetched, but Castro!
Hey, it never hurts to try. I would have done the same thing if I were the Red Sox. I don’t hold it against the Red Sox that they asked for Castro, nor do I would think it was wrong for the Cubs to offer up only cash or some lowball counter-offer.
Boston started high and has gradually lowered its price, which is Negotiation Tactic #1. The Cubs started low and have refused to budge, which is the #1 way to look stupid during a negotiation. Boston’s got Cherington on the job in case this goes on for a while, while the Cubs have just an interim GM who has nothing in common with Theo. Have fun with this; as a Cubs fan I would be crossing my fingers that they just paid up, and ended this cat and mouse as soon as possible.
” Epstein has been working at his Red Sox office all day, according to Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe”
Ya working on evaluating the Cubs farm system….haha
So, it appears the Padres are working on getting John Lackey, according to ESPN Boston. That kind of paints a pretty convenient picture of a three team trade between Cubs, Red Sox and Padres. I mean, you’d think getting rid of Lackey while having the Cubs eat part of his contract as compensation for Epstein would be reasonable. Padres then get Lackey at a discount for sending Hoyer to Chicago. That would actually be a pretty clever work-around to break the stalemate. You have to figure the Sox at least inquired about dealing Lackey.
Just a thought…
Kinda makes sense considering the Hoyer News, Lackey to SD Rumor, and news of an epstein press conference all broke around the same time. At least it seemed like they did.
Why soo much hate towards the Red Sox. Theo is still under contract plain & simple..
“OMG!! Theo is coming to Chicago!! OMG!!”
with that much excitement? really? pay up!
I agree man. You guys are in the unique position of having a front office employee being offered a vertical promotion. Its NEVER happened before and its not like there was a long established rule allowing for that kind of promotion without all kinds of hassle. I mean if there was, you’d find that no team has ever given more than a marginal fringe former top 15 prospect and some cash.
But no man, good point you guys should definitely encourage your front office to act like a-holes. G-d I cant wait for the Red Sox to be held over a barrel in the future because of this new precedence they’re trying to set. It truly will be Karma.
“I mean if there was, you’d find that no team has ever given more than a marginal fringe former top 15 prospect and some cash”
Former top 15 in all of baseball? Well the Marlins gave up two former top 5 prospects in their system.
The Cubs have supposedly not been willing to deal McNutt, who is the definition of a fringe top 15 prospect. He’s a late round draft pick with no pedigree, pitched extremely well two years ago, and was extremely mediocre. Again, you have NO idea what the Cubs are willing to give up right now. You are a Cubs fan. You are biased and your baseless speculation is hilarious.
Also, if Karma does exist the Cubs wouldn’t win a World Series for another 100 years. Apparently this Cubs fan thinks asking for multiple marginal prospects for an employee under contract is worse than an entire fan base threatening a fan for a dumb move at a baseball game…yeah, the logic in Chicago is at an all time high.
So, I read your comment and am lost as to whether you had a point. No one would argue that McNutt is not our top pitching prospect in the high minors despite his year. So hes hardly a fringe prospect.
As for your Marlins example. Cool story. Bringing in an example of a LATERAL (meaning same position on another team) move with a team that would have been charged with Tampering if the White Sox went unhappy. Also the prospects they gave up were top 5 in their system at the begining of the season, long before they both had terrible seasons. So outside of the type of promotion and the quality of the propects, I guess your example is what? Relevant because its about an MLB team?
If Boston had flat out refused the cubs approach, there would be no reason to cry foul because it happens all the time. However, if you grant permission (in fact try to get some kind of posting fee based on reports) then every example before this one would seem to indicate you have to let your personnel take a vertical promotion and do so at a customary cost. What would that customary cost be, like I said a frindgish top 15-20 prospect from the Cubs system. This is why Selig might get involved and why its in the best interests of the MLB to limit any more ammunition for collusion charges. Stopping teams from blocking there personal from making a vertical leap was the whole point of Rule 5 drafting back in the day.
If you don’t agree, thats fine. But be honest. Use a ‘I have no historical or logical arguments for my side’ but ‘I just want to try and rape the system because my team will be the one trying to get the advantage. If that’s the case, no worries. But like I said, man I cant wait for the day when Red Sox fans are bitching about some other team’s cutthroat a-holes who are trying to ignore any long standing informal agreements.
“The sides have agreed to “nothing” in terms of compensation, according to Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com.”
Now, does he mean they haven’t agreed to anything yet or that they’ve agreed that there will be no compensation?
Given, the answer is obvious to anyone following the situation (Or anyone who’s read the article), but this is terribly worded.
“Despite reports that a deal to finalize Theo Epstein joining the Cubs is
imminent, a source with knowledge of the ongoing talks said late
Thursday afternoon that “nothing” has been agreed upon in compensation
talks between the two team (sic)”
As of 5:00 PM Central the Padres had not even been asked for permission to talk to Hoyer let alone McLeod and these guys are “confirming” that he is going to Chicago and there will be a press conference Friday to announce it?
Plus the Padres are not going to ask for compensation for a guy with TWO years left on his contract?
WTF?
Sounds like pure speculation to me.
Last time today that I heard credible sources there was no agreement in place, the Red Sox were still asking for top prospects and the Cubs were only willing to offer guys few fans have ever heard of and cash.
Guess time will tell, but since the world is supposed to end tomorrow it may be a moot point.
My point is if you want Theo soo bad a year early then you have to give someone of value. It’s not the Red Sox fault that your farm system is a joke and you only have a few good prospects.
What is actual value? If the Cubs system is as bad as everyone is making it out to be, then surely a player from the Cubs wouldn’t mean that much to the Red Sox. Which is the problem with them asking for “compensation”. There’s no player that the Cubs will be able to give them that will be satisfactory. So for the Red Soxs and Red Soxs fans to say, “we have to get something of value”, just seem nonsensical. There’s no actual value.
If the Cubs gave McNutt, it wouldn’t be value. The Red Soxs feel that he his not a major leaguer and may never be one, and very few teams believe that he will be one. So how is he compensation? The answer is, he’s not. All this is for is for the Red Soxs to save face. They’re going to get a couple of players, yeah okay. But neither of those players will ever see the light of a major league roster. So this idea that the Cubs have to give up something of value makes no sense. There is nothing of value. This is the Red Soxs trying to save face, and that’s really about it.
I kind of agree with you. The last few weeks have been nothing but a P.R. disaster, so perhaps they’re just trying to give them impression that they are “working hard” to make this team perfect, that they make sure they get “the best” they can get for their employees.
But I don’t know though, this whole thing has baffled and confused me and I’m done trying to predict what’s going to happen next and trying to rationalize every more the Sox make.
It might be about “saving face” but every team would do that in that situation. It’s either they just let him go to Chicago for nothing, or they get SOMETHING. They wanted a major leaguer at first (ruining your “save face” theory), Chicago said no, so you figure they’d just throw up their hands and give him up for free at that point?!
All Boston wants is some skin off Chicago’s nose, so to speak. They’re giving up their high-profile GM a year early, and they don’t just do that for free. They have no need for cash, and the idea of them getting a lump sum of money back for Theo would be a PR disaster with their current ticket prices. They want Chicago to show they truly want Theo by giving something up.
And by your logic, if Boston’s not actually asking for anything of value, why is Chicago refusing to give up anything Boston has asked for? Boston showed interest in McNutt; the Cubs giving him up plus a lower prospect would be almost nothing to them since as you said, they’re NOT WORTH THAT MUCH. At first Boston was snooty by asking for major leaguers like Castro and Garza, but by this point they’re just looking for one of Chicago’s better prospects. This is now all about the Cubs trying to have their cake and eat it too. They’ve got to give up something to get Theo a year early. It just makes sense.
In your second paragraph, you gave the ultimate definition of saving face.
“They have no need for cash, and the idea of them getting a lump sum of
money back for Theo would be a PR disaster with their current ticket
prices.”
And I have commented on this prior in other threads. The Cubs are idiots for not giving up McNutt. He’s quite literally worth nothing. I’ve been saying for a long time that both teams are idiots. Being a team’s “better” prospect, doesn’t make them good. He’s no actual value for the Cubs or Red Soxs. Which again goes to my point of the Red Sox trying save face.
So now we have to believe everything Peter Gammons says about the Cubs farm system. Isn’t he Mr. Red Sox?
And it’s not the Cubs’ fault the Theo Epstein doesn’t want to be there and prefers the Cubs position.
You’re also assuming that the Cubs want Epstein a year early that bad. That’s what the negotiations are about. Maybe it turns out the Cubs really don’t care that much about an extra year of Epstein and will be happy to walk.
The thing is, it really doesn’t matter whose fault it is. You can argue about who has leverage, or you can argue about what is fair. You can’t do both. Assuming the Cubs system is that bad, the Red Sox can ask for mid-level prospects all they want. It’s not going to make them magically appear.
If the Red Sox feel like the Epstein compensation isn’t worth it to them, they can walk away. That’s their right. And the Cubs don’t have to give up anything they don’t want to give up, regardless of what you or I might think is “fair.”
one of Jackson, McNutt, or Szczur and a mid level prospect would qualify.
How long can they keep restating what everyone knows will eventually happen???
Junior Lake and Austin Kirk to San Diego for Hoyer. No Mcleod to Chicago.
$3.7 million cash and no one you ever heard of to Boston for Epstein.
Pure speculation, but as reliable as any of the guys in the articles above.
I’m not familiar with Hoyer, anyone know anything about him? Would he be a good GM?
Looks like Boston and the Cubs better wrap it up. Selig said(Sirius) there’s a good chance he will step in and decide the compensation if it is not done soon. He is probably tired of it hanging over his WS. I’m speculating but beleive this would be good for the Cubs. MLB has said they don’t want the compensation precedent for a GM to be too high.