The latest Padres rumors:
- Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts met with Padres owner Jeff Moorad, Byrnes and Hoyer during the regular season finale, according to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com.
- Most baseball people expect Hoyer, not Byrnes, to join Epstein in Chicago, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter).
- The Padres have internally discussed the possibility of acquiring John Lackey from the Red Sox if Boston takes on most of the right-hander's salary, according to Bill Center of the San Diego Union-Tribune. Lackey pitched for the Angels when Padres manager Bud Black was the team's pitching coach.
- When Theo Epstein joins the Cubs, he'll likely bring along someone from the Padres front office, according to Center. GM Jed Hoyer, assistant GM Jason McLeod and senior VP of baseball operations Josh Byrnes are candidates to join Epstein in Chicago.
- Contract talks have begun between the Padres and Heath Bell, tweets Center. The Padres are aiming for a two-year deal with an option, while Bell wants three guaranteed years. He's never had a multiyear deal in his career. Center recently wrote that the Padres are in the two-year, $15-16MM range. If no deal can be worked out, the Padres must decide by November 23rd whether to offer arbitration to the Type A reliever.
- Theo Epstein wouldn't tell the people he'd want to bring to Chicago until he's officially part of the Cubs, a source close to Epstein tells Dan Hayes of the North County Times (Twitter link). The source believes recent rumors are "just speculation." Yesterday, SI's Jon Heyman reported that Epstein is interested in poaching some combination of top Padres executives Jed Hoyer, Jason McLeod, and Josh Byrnes. Today, Heyman writes that Hoyer is "definitely in the mix for a job with the Cubs once Epstein officially goes to Chicago."
- Tom Krasovic thinks that if Hoyer joins the Cubs he'd bring McLeod with him. Byrnes, a favorite of Padres owner Jeff Moorad, would likely become San Diego's GM.
It seems odd to me that Hoyer would take a demotion even if its for his former boss or a less restrictive organization.
The best explanation would be the cubs make Epstein president and hoyer the gm, but even then that doesn’t make much sense.
Can’t wait to hear more Cubs compensation talks…
at least it’s not beer/chicken/video game talk.
That’s just it, if the Cubs don’t want to give the Sox any decent players, what would the give up for Hoyer. I really hope Moorad puts his foot down here and doesn’t let the Cubs talk to Jed.
At this point, that’s what I’d do. As it stands, the Cubs are hesitant to part with anything worthwhile for Epstein, a man known as one of the game’s best GMs with nine years of large market experience running one of the most succesful organizations in the MLB. What exactly can Moorad expect to get out of them for a third year GM operating out of one of the MLB’s worst markets?
I’d say it’s simply not worth the drama unless he REALLY wants Byrnes.
Yea his free agent signings have been off the charts
Yeah but he’s drafted ellsbury, pedroia, lester and papelbon, amongst others and was able to win 2 world series as the GM, us red sox fans learn to deal with the bad signings.
If you’re going to make mistakes, free agency is the place to do it as opposed to the draft and trade. All they lose is money which isn’t a big deal for a team like the Red Sox.
According to Ken Rosenthal, “Epstein is actively looking to hire a GM, a move that would enable him to serve the Cubs as president of baseball operations, according to major league sources.”
Who knows? John Henry did always say that he would not stand in a FO member’s way if he was offered a promotion with another club, and it looks like that may be what’s going on here.
It’s not a demotion. Theo will be president of baseball operations and hoyer would be gm.
No, but it is a lateral move. Moorad has said he’d draw a hard line in the sand when it comes to lateral moves. It’s one thing to stand in the way of a promotion, but that’s not the case with Hoyer. For a lateral move there is no way the Padres shouldn’t get compensation to release Hoyer from his contract and probably tell the Hoyer you aren’t talking Mcloed with you.
If Hoyer trades for Lackey he should be fired!
Epstein won’t get hoyer he’s gm he will get a worse job he has Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo who will be stars and Fuentes who will be a solid outfielder in the future the padres will not be in last place for much longer
Uhm… did you see them play? Rizzo stank at PetCo last year, he looks too stiff trying to field at first base.
Casey Kelly would be lucky to even get a call to the Majors, he is not good. And Reymond Fuentes is a guy with no power, has speed but really bad at fielding, below average batting, and he’s still at A+.
What they had was the overhype from Boston’s PR/media machine.
PSEpstein can get Hoyer, because Jed has a better chance of doing something at Chicago than at San Diego, the Padres look like a minor league again this year.
so let’s review: fuentes is a loser because he only hit .275/.342/.379 in the single-A. presumably if he had, he’s be good
rizzo meanwhile hit .331/.401/.652 as a 21 year old in AAA … but since he struggled in 150 MLB PA’s after hitting his way onto the team, he’s a bum too
and casey kelly isn’t good because … casey kelly isn’t good
this guy sounds legit you guys. disregard all scouts
Nice work. Was going to say something similar, but just didn’t have it in me to deal with fools.
Rizzo’s problem was not the glove. He as good or better defensively than the Gold glove winning Gonzalez. His problem was the bat, specifically swinging at bad pitches. He will eventually get comfortable at the plate and hit for a decent average with some pop. He is no Adrian at the plate, but good enough.
Casey Kelly WILL be a solid inning eater in the majors. Not an Ace, but a 3-4 starter. Look for him to get a cup of coffee when there are injuries in 2012 and be a regular in the rotation in 2013.
Weiland, Erlin, Castro and Oramas should also be full time contributors by 2013 in some capacity for the Padres.
Fuentes grades out at a 65 in defensive skills. That is out of an 80. He projects as a plus plus defender as a CF at the ML level. His only problem at this point is a lack of power and he is only 20 years old. Most teams are not looking for big power from a CF. Fuentes is no exception to that rule.
The Padres have one of the best farm systems in baseball and as their payroll increases ($53-55 million in 2012 and $70+ million in 2013) within the next couple of years it will payoff for them with a couple of playoff appearances.
Where did you get that skill grade? MLB the show? Ohhh I forgot they dont have Minor leaguers… So you made it up?
Why do you think the Red Sox gave those Guys up? It’s because they knew they wern’t going to be stars. That’s how the Red Sox do things. They continuously pump the tires of ALL of their prospects. Michael Bowden was talked about in the same conversation with Clay Buchholz when they were coming up together. The Red Sox best asset is that they can overhype their own players and for whatever reason other teams will buy it and bite.
this guy sounds like he knows what he’s talking about, too. hanley ramirez, anibal sanchez, justin masterson … just hype. the red sox do not produce good prospects – even for themselves! – and they definitely only trade the overhyped ones
Hey rizzo was rushed Casey Kelly was is sandiegos best prospect he was a great quarter back Fuentes is pro sly better than jd drew
huh?
Makes sense.
Did you make it to the 2nd grade?
Yes, but he only spent two weeks there, otherwise the hotel empire was going to go to that jerk Eric.
Don’t forget about the immortal Lars Anderson and Craig Hanson
Whatever happened to Hansen?
nothin
Because nobody else has ever had a prospect wash out. Clearly Hansen and Anderson take precedent over the dozen or so guys he had a hand in drafting and/or developing that have been major contributors to an MLB team.
Hanson was pimped by Gammons as the next closer and Anderson was supposed to be the answer to Tex. I’m looking forward to the hype machine working over time for Middlebrooks this year.
the 2 wonder kids are off the Sox so the overrating of them can stop. Rizzo looked awesome last year when they called him up. David Murphy 2.0
Maybe next year Kelly can actually have a good season at triple A.
“the 2 wonder kids are off the Sox so the overrating of them can stop. Rizzo looked awesome last year when they called him up. David Murphy 2.0”
Most Sox fans and experts considered Murphy a fourth outfielder, actually. Since then he’s been an adequate starter most of his time in Texas (Despite playing for a team with one of the best outfields in the MLB), so if anything he was undervalued a bit. If you wanted to go with a guy being overrated in that deal, he was about the least likely one to pick (Considering your usual quality of posting, I’m not surprised by your off the mark post, though, so no worries). Engel Beltre was considered the centerpiece (And to be fair, he did OPS over .900 in at seventeen, he had the tools, he just never developed. Gabbard was the truly overrated guy in that deal, a lot of less aware Sox fans were crying over losing him when he had a fourth starter ceiling, and that was a generous estimate.
“Maybe next year Kelly can actually have a good season at triple A. ”
Considering he’s only 22, that WOULD be pretty impressive actually. For all the armchair GMs out there calling Kelly a bust, he’s had all of ONE bad stop in his development. That one bad stop was as a 20 year old in AA pitching in a hitters’ park (Portland aside, he’s put up an ERA of 2.08, 1.12, 3.09 and 3.98 at each other level of his development, hardly cause for concern). He’s basically been thrown in the deep end at every stage of his development and has adapted well outside of his stint in Portland. But why let facts get in the way of a good “OMG SAWX OVERRATE THERE PROSPECTS” rant?
Which is exactly what Rizzo will become. A below average firstbase guy who couldn’t start on over the half the teams out there. Could the guys swing be any longer? Even Tony Gwynn said so.
Really so Kelly wasn’t the centerpiece of the deal even though he was ranked as the best Sox prospect at the time but instead Beltre was???
Kelly is so great that he started the year in the top 50 why I have no idea oh yea the usual ESPN pumped up expectations of the Sox kids and yet at mid season he had fallen out of the top 50 and now people feel he would be better suited for the bull pen.
and every team overrates their prospects but every team doesn’t have ESPN as their mouth piece now do they?
Yep. It’s official Hoyer is definitely on the Red Sox payroll.
Anyone see the joke that was Peter Gammons’ comments from today or yesterday? Called the Cubs system ‘bottom 3’ and said McNutt would be the Red Sox 25th best prospect right now.
“joke that was Peter Gammons’ ”
That’s really all you needed to say. There isn’t a single person that can take what he says seriously.
I dunno about the 25th best thing, our depth’s pretty thin, but the bottom three thing is debateable. BP ranked the Cubs system 23rd and their top prospect at the time of said ranking is no longer counted as a prospect, which could very well have dropped them a few spots. Personally, I disagree (They’re unquestionably bottom ten, but I digress), but one could make an argument for it.
After the 2011 draft, they’re ‘in the middle’ according to John Manual at BA. They had a top-3 draft this year according to a few different people.
“The Padres have internally discussed the possibility of acquiring John Lackey from the Red Sox if Boston takes on most of the right-hander’s salary”
Only most? Sold.
I was going to say what the hell are they waiting for! Hell, toss in an extra 5 million over what he’s owed while we’re at it for future “discretionary” expenses for him. Get ‘er done Ben, before Jed can leave!
Trade him for a 30 of Bud Light for Beckett to drink in the dugout.
Becket seems like a tall can kinda guy to me. Now we know how he get those blisters on his fingers….. opening up cans of beer all day
Josh Beckett is making like $15 million a year, he can afford to pay Darnell McDonald to open his beers for him and still have plenty left over to procure Jed Lowrie’s services as his own personal ball washer.
Seriously. What’s he owed, $45.5 over 3 years??
Hey Jed. How about we give you Lackey + $46mm, and you give us some sunflower seeds?And we want David’s seeds, not those stupid 2-for-a-dollar Frito Lay seeds in the green bags that are 80% salt sticks.
Thing is… Padres look to again do a favor to the Bosox (like when they acquired Mirabelli and gave their two best players, or with Adrián for three minor leaguers who won’t help them at all).
Maybe they’ll get Lackey, but at what cost? talking about prospects, i am sure if they offer Rizzo and Fuentes back, the sox won’t accept it.
I’m probably the only guy who will agree with you on this. Its insanity what’s going on btw these two teams and Hoyer is oddly making these moves at the Padres expense. Its just freaking weird all around.
“I’m probably the only guy who will agree with you on this.”
For some odd reason, I just started thinking about the time Sarah Palin talked up Michelle Bachman’s foreign policy cred. Strange.
“like when they acquired Mirabelli and gave their two best players”
Facts is hard, yo. Doug Mirabelli cost the Padres Mark Loretta. But of course, I can see how you would mix up “two best players” with a 34 year old second baseman who was coming off an injury-riddled season in which he OPS’ed all of .707, can’t believe he didn’t make the ASG that year on the back of those twenty whole extra base hits he’d had). We subsequently traded two of our, at the time, top prospects to the Padres to get Mirabelli back (Which people were up Epstein’s backside for a year over until Meredith and Bard became retreads).
As for the Gonzo trade…
Rizzo and Kelly were both top 100 rated BA prospects at the time of the trade and both probably improved their stock in 2011 as Kelly improved on a rough 2010 campaign (3.98 ERA in 142 innings at all of 21 years old) and Rizzo, despite a rough start in the majors (At the late prospect blooming age of 22 after losing a year to cancer), but no, you’re right, a guy with an .880 OPS in the minor leagues couldn’t POSSIBLY rebound.
Gonzalez was all but certain to leave in free agency. His agent made it clear he wanted elite first baseman money (Which he deserved) and the Padres FO made it clear that they couldn’t afford elite first baseman money. Gonzalez was coming off of an injury and the Red Sox offered two top 100 prospects and a (At the time) 19 year old center fielder with extremely high upside. Considering the fact that if the Padres kept him, Gonzalez would’ve netted them a first rounder and a supplemental rounder, that was a pretty good haul (Fuentes and Kelly were both first rounders, Rizzo a sixth). Likewise, considering the Sox were one of the only teams in the MLB that could afford both the extension demands AND put up an offer of that quality, people like you spouting off these BS conspiracy theories serve only to demonstrate a complete ignorance to baseball operations. But if you insist upon continuing to look like an off his nut conspiracy theorist, feel free to do so.
Hoyer and his staff should be subject to public stoning if they trade for Lackey. I don’t care how familiar Black is with Lackey, there is no fixing that guy. His stuff is gone, his command is non-existant and he has zero confidence (ego notwithstanding). I also tend to think he’s a terrible clubhouse guy and wouldn’t want him anywhere near kids like Richard, Latos and Leubke.
One would have to wonder how strong Hoyer’s ties are in Boston (and where his loyalties lie) if they take that albatross off Boston’s hands.
STAY AWAY!
To be fair, the only reason he didn’t get killed by his teammates for showing them up when they didn’t make a web gem was because he’s such a good clubhouse guy.
Plus, you never know how someone’s stuff is going to play at Petco rather than at Fenway.
Also, I hate Lackey and am trying to persuade you to take him.
I wonder how much of the talk is coming from Bud Black himself. He may look at the situation and say he can fix Lackey’s mechanics in a very pitchers friendly ballpark. He also goes from AL East lineups to NL West lineups which is a huge plus. If I’m the Padres and I can get this guy for a crappy prospect and pay him 3-4 mil a year with the Sox eating the rest, it may be worth a shot. Then again I’m a sox fan and really want him gone so maybe I’m being a homer here.
If they can get him for $3.5mm per year plus give up a B level prospect, they’d be getting a pitcher who has had success in the AL West, which boasts stronger lineups than the NL West, and both the AL West and NL West have pitcher-friendly parks, so there is no difference there.
I would take Lackey on the Sox for $3.5mm as depth, but I’d also love to get rid of him.
Oh man, if the Padres were willing to take on $3-4 million a year, that’d be a dream come true.
As Angels fan said when we heard the news he was going to Fenway…..HAHA he’ll struggle there…
I think arm issues a side(big reason Angels wouldn’t give him what he wanted) he will fair better having the bigger park behind him…
Hoyer… stinks… the guy is a diehard fan of the sox, don’t you remember an interview when he talked about how much he loved to turn on the tv to watch the redsox play, and how thrilled he said he was thinking of how Adrián would do at Fenway? there are a couple (at least) interviews at the gaslamp blog, and the few XX 1090 interviews where he said “they didn’t think that Adrián was so valuable to the Padres” so they took the best they could get, and he made the trade with the sox without looking at other teams prospects because Hoyer said he knew the sox players better…
With Hoyer in control, the Padres are quickly approaching Red Sox hate territory. I have real thing about me that hates bad management. It’s just my thing and as we’ve seen recently, the Sox have excelled in that category. I’ve always had my suspicions about Hoyer and what his deal is, especially after the joke of a Gonzalez trade (especially considering the team was a legit contender at the time) and now this comes out. Something is not right and I almost wonder if Hoyer is trying to get himself intentionally fired to void the contract. Seriously is MLB going to step in soon and advise on this. WTF is going on.
The Padres had to deal Gonzalez and from what we heard was being offered at the time, Hoyer did take the best deal. I’m not sure why you are so quick to throw these 3 guys under the bus. Rizzo tore up AAA and not surprisingly struggled in his 1st stint in the Majors, Kelly just finished up only his second season as a full time pitcher and Fuentes finished his season at A ball at the age of 20. These 3 are far from being busts.
I’m glad I don’t play for your team, one bad week and I’d be cut. 🙂
Rizzo is the only one who will amount to anything I feel. It’s a sweetheart deal for the Sox and I absolutely believe they could have gotten more from the Mariners or Angels, even the Braves (even for how gun shy they are) at the time. Further I never would have made that deal coming off a season where the team was a legit contender. They didn’t “have” to deal Gonzalez just like the Brewers didn’t “have” to deal Prince and that did pay dividends in terms of their bottom line, brought in a lot of money from the fans for the season. If they traded Prince last year do you honeslty believe 1) they would have made it as far as they did 2) sold as many tickets and concessions as they did. From a business standpoint it was genius and very ballsy of Melvin and I respect the move a great deal. And guess what, he’ll get two premium draft picks, just like the Padres would have if they kept Gonzalez and they’d be no further ahead with the prospects than they are now. Maybe Rizzo will appear with the 2012 team.
“Rizzo is the only one who will amount to anything I feel. It’s a sweetheart deal for the Sox and I absolutely believe they could have gotten more from the Mariners or Angels, even the Braves (even for how gun shy they are) at the time.”
The reason you think that is because (As you’ve exhibited REPEATEDLY) you know absolutely nothing about baseball teams outside of the NY Metro area.
The Mariners had JUST traded Cliff Lee away for a deal centered around a first baseman. Do you seriously think they were going to basically go out there and trade away one of the top pitchers in the MLB only to IMMEDIATELY give a vote of no-confidence in the top piece they got back by trading for a first baseman?
The Angels had Kendry Morales locked up through 2012 who, despite his 2010 injury, was expected to come back still in his peak years. That aside, the GM that Hoyer would have been dealing with traded away Mike Napoli FOR VERNON BLOODY WELLS not even a month later. Do you sincerely believe Reagins was of the mind to do something competent last offseason?
The Braves. Really? Freeman was rated as the #17 prospect in the MLB, was 21 and had another like six years of team control when the Gonzalez trade went down. Why in the world would the Braves trade for a first baseman?
“They didn’t “have” to deal Gonzalez just like the Brewers didn’t “have” to deal Prince and that did pay dividends in terms of their bottom line, brought in a lot of money from the fans for the season. If they traded Prince last year do you honeslty believe 1) they would have made it as far as they did 2) sold as many tickets and concessions as they did.”
The Padres have one of the worst markets in the MLB and as evidenced by their awful record this season had exactly ONE good player (Think Bautista this season, having absolutely no supporting cast in the offense). Comparing their situation to the Brewers is completely apples to oranges. Aside from Fielder, they had Braun and Hart in their lineup.
The Padres admitted they couldn’t afford him (BEFORE Hoyer came on board) and what the Sox offered beat two comp picks.
“And guess what, he’ll get two premium draft picks, just like the Padres would have if they kept Gonzalez and they’d be no further ahead with the prospects than they are now.”
Fuentes and Kelly were both first round picks with high upside who have now had another year to develop. How is a first and supplemental pick any better than what the Padres got? Especially considering the Padres are a small market team who can’t afford to go overslot for their picks (All three of their first/supplemental picks this season are guys picked because of a lack of signability issues).
I agreed with you until the last paragraph. Moorad has shown a willingness to spend on the draft, even back when he was with Arizona. Spangenberg was taken at #10 because the pick wasn’t protected and so far he looks like a very good player. Ross was rumored to be going to the Indians at #8 until Lindor fell to them, and he signed for well over slot money. And that’s not to mention the 3 million the Padres gave to 2nd round pick Hedges. Moorad is more than willing to spend on the draft because he knows that the only way to have sustained success in San Diego is with a strong farm system.
For starters, as hard as this is to say as a Padres fan, 2010 was a complete fluke and actually put the rebuilding of the team back a few years. With the unexpected success the Padres had in 2010, the few fans that did show up to watch a 1st place team until mid September, wanted them to make another run. If not for the wild ride that was 2010, Hoyer would have been able to deal Bell last winter and restock the farm system to an even greater extent. Hoyer knew that was not going to be possible, just like anyone who watched the 2010 team knew.
It’s hard to compare the Fielder situation to the Gonzalez situation, as Melvin and Attanasio have said they are going to try and resign Fielder. Of course they can make that statement, because when the Brewers are winning, fans show up and the team makes money from ticket sales and concessions. As I said earlier, even when the Padres were winning last season no one showed up, “because the payroll was so low”. Who cares what the payroll is. Support your team through thick and thin and the front office will have more money to spend.
And thirdly, unless Epstein and Hoyer had this planned all along, getting back together, why would Hoyer take a bad deal from his buddy just to put his new team in peril. Getting 3 players that he and McLeod were involved in drafting, have a good feel for, and are cloer to the Majors is better than hoping you get who you want in the draft. IMO Hoyer has done a great job so far in San Diego and I really hope he stays on as GM.
“As I said earlier, even when the Padres were winning last season no one showed up, “because the payroll was so low”.”
Which is a crying shame considering how gorgeous Petco is and how perfect San Diego is for baseball. Constant great weather, tons of Boston area transplants who are big on baseball (Anecdotaly anyway, I got stopped by people every few blocks striking up a conversation with me over my Sox hat when I visited during the ’08 playoffs).
I loved the setup of Petco when I toured the place, especially the way they worked with that historically protected building that was in the way of construction. I hope to catch an actual game there at some point.
It is a shame that more “fans” don’t make it out to Petco. I’ve been to 16 big league parks and it sits in a tie with Target Field in Minnesota as my favorite. I used to think that San Diegans were just fair weather fans, but last proved that they aren’t even that. Maybe if they filled up that ball park, Moorad would have more money to spend on the big league club.
It’s tough because they’re in kind of a cyclicle pattern. They can’t compete routinely because people don’t attend and they can’t get people to attend because they can’t compete regularly.
They put all that work into that park, but the biggest thing that stood out to me was that half of their tour and memorabelia was Ted Williams stuff. Maybe Moorad should write off Byrnes and snipe Friedman for himself, let Moreno get a guy who doesn’t necessarily know how to squeeze diamonds from coal.
A legit contender? The 2011 Padres?
Oh boy.
2010 sparky
Gonzalez was traded after the conclusion of the 2010 season (obviously), December 6th, 2010 to be exact. You can’t be talking about the 2010 team at this point, because the 2010 season is over. Aditonally, the Padres have lost Kevin Correia, Jon Garland, Yorvit Torrealba, Jerry Hairston Jr., and David Eckstein to free agency at this point. The only moves towards next year’s roster the Padres have completed is signing Aaron Harang (same day as the Gonzalez trade, natch) and completing the trade for Cameron Maybin.
The point of all this? I have no idea how you could call a team with this many holes a legit contender. Digging further, the Padres 2010 season was an anomaly, partially built upon that pariah-GM Hoyer hitting on essentially all of his free agent signings. Look at the Padres record the past three years: 75-87 (2009), 90-72 (2010), 71-91 (2011). Does that scream “legit contender” to you?
Funny, I read the same thing about Gonzo the other day; “terrible clubhouse guy.” Both he and Lackey were always considered good clubhouse guys BEFORE arriving in Boston.
I’ve never heard of Gonzalez being called a bad clubhouse guy, but I suppose it’s possible. Maybe he’s been spoiled by the clubhouse culture in Boston?
All I know is, anytime I’ve seen Lackey pitch in the last two years he’s been staring down teammates, cursing out Tito, and making a general a$$ of himself. He portrays himself as the most unhappy, egotistical, malcontent with his demeanor on the mound.
“Maybe he’s been spoiled by the clubhouse culture in Boston?”
Or maybe the Boston media reporting things like that is just completely inept.
Humble religious guy who came in and basically resurrected David Ortiz’s career Jesus Style or the likes of Tony Massarotti. Hmmm, who to side with on this one…
In fairness, people calling Gonzalez a terrible clubhouse guy are, by and large, idiots.
AL worst fielding behind him in games he pitched and a .340 BABIP point to some upside, but Lackey was NEVER a great pitcher. He was a middle to back of the rotation inning eater in LA.
Padres have lots of better options even if the Red Sox ate all the salary and asked for only a couple of low level prospects.
I hate to admit it, pain in the backside that Lackey was, but it really is kind of underwritten how bad the defense behind Lackey was. We had a solid defense overall, a great right side of the infield, a good outfield defense, yet there were so many boneheaded plays made when he was on the mound. He was definitely a bad pitcher last year, but not 6.41 ERA bad.
“Padres have lots of better options even if the Red Sox ate all the salary and asked for only a couple of low level prospects. ”
What if we ate all the salary and DIDN’T ask for a couple of low level prospects?
I saw Lackey pitch several times this year, and it seems like he’s always behind in the count 2-0 or 2-1, which tells me he is either nibbling due to a lack of trust in his stuff, or he just has no idea where the ball is going. I frankly think it’s a combination of the two. ANd I also think he’s convinced himself he’s an elite pitcher and should benefit from a wider strike zone, so he becomes stubborned and refuses to pitch to the zone he’s being given until he has to come in with a meatball.
Well, I think we can all agree that if he can’t pitch in Petco, he’s absolutely undeniably toast. Not that I’m saying he currently isn’t…but if he can’t make it there he can’t make it anywhere.
Cubs take Lackey from Sox in exchange for the right to sign Epstein, then send Lackey along with most (if not all) of Lackey’s remaining salary to the Padres for the right to sign Hoyer? Cubs would end up essentially giving cash for Epstein, which seems to be what they’ve wanted all along. Sox rid themselves of Lackey and his salary, Padres get Lackey at little to no cost to them. What do you think?
Yes
I would take that in a heartbeat, but that’s different from what the Cubs want.
They want to give the Sox cash, but in this scenario they’re giving up more cash than they allegedly were willing (I recall hearing $20 million, Lackey’s owed about $45 million) AND it’s even worse because it’s cash applied toward payroll whereas hard cash wouldn’t interfere with baseball operations, just the bottom line. This kind of move would further cripple the team, they’d effectively have $34 million allocated to two players, one of whom wouldn’t even be playing for them.
Would I jump at that opportunity? Heck yes. Do I think it’s remotely likely? Sadly, no.
Cubs are offering the $3.7 million that the Red Sox have to pay Epstein as a “bonus” (read Golden Parachute) after he leaves (quits or fired). I have heard that they upped that to around $4 million total.
The Red Sox asked for Garza and were laughed at.
They then asked for Jackson and another prospect were told not only no, but He** no.
Then they asked for McNutt and another prospect and were told no.
They asked for Vitters AND Carpenter and were told neither are available.
Cubs are still looking to only pay cash and from everything I have heard have pretty much held firm on that point although I did hear a rumor that the Cubs were willing to send Wallach and the $3.7 million to the Red Sox for Epstein which is more than a fair offer.
After all Henry has said numerous times that he would never stand in the way of a FO person moving on to another team for a promotion and President of the team is certainly a promotion for Epstein.
“the Cubs were willing to send Wallach and the $3.7 million to the Red Sox for Epstein which is more than a fair offer. ”
Fair offer?! A 22 year old in single A with a career MiLB 5.11 ERA and all of one not entirely awful season on his career? For one of the best baseball executives in the game? Wallach will NEVER touch the MLB club in Boston, not even as a reliever. The only shot he has of contributing is if pretty much our entire bullpen goes down and the entire town of Pawtuckett is destroyed while the PawSox are in town and at that point we’ll effectively have conceded our season anyway.
The Sox would literally be better off if Ricketts were to offer to fly to Boston and piss on Tom Henry’s shoes as compensation than taking Wallach and cash (Unless that cash was something to the tune of $60 million to offset Lackey’s salary and the cost of topping the luxury tax to replace him).
In the last situation comparable to this the Cubs gave up $200,000 and a low A ball player that never reached the ML.
$3.7 million ALONE was more than fair compensation. Adding in Wallach was nice icing on the cake.
Now the Red Sox will likely get less than they were offered.
The sox will keep on asking for MAJOR talent as a compensation… be it from the Cubbies or from the Frailes.
Give them a Popeyes franchise and a case of beer!
I think he goes straight to the padres that will be great for the sox and the padres aren’t stupid here that’s a big ballpark do it sox go for it sandiego
Sure, Petco is vast, but Lackey’s problem isn’t HR’s. He gave up 20 in Fenway, but a zillion hits. He allowed more dingers in CA in his good years. His WHIP was 1.614 in Boston, and you can picture it being even worse in Petco, with the fielders more spread out.
The real problem is that handing John Lackey the baseball every fifth day deprives another more deserving pitcher of a start. I don’t see why San Diego would/should consider that, $$ notwithstanding.
Yea, Im sure all those games against the Yankees and AL super lineups are taking more of a toll on his performance…..BRING HIM TO THE NL East!!!!
Is there a requirement in San Diego that if you want to work for their front office, your name has to start with a J? I mean Jeff, Jason, Jed and Josh? Come on.
Lackey for Jason Bay straight up. Bay would be comfortble being back in small Fenway Park while Lackey would benefit from the larger Citi Field and pitching in the NL. Even though Bay is $3M more expensive, Lackey has an extra year on his contract.
I say its a pretty even trade. Benefits both squads, fills Red Sox need for a bat to replace Ortiz, and fills Mets need for a True #2 starter to back up Santana (who probably wont be 100%)
Then you can go sign Sizemore or McLouth to play CF and let Nieuwenheis earn the opportunity to play LF in ST.
You want another Oliver Perez?
How are you able to compare Lackey with Perez….Perez can’t even find the strike zone, came into camp out of shape, refused offers to go to the minors to patch things up and magically lost 5mph on his fastball overnight.
Let’s get that deal done today Christopher Soto. I proposed the same deal earlier today on another site.
Lackey for Alex Rios or Lackey for Vernon Wells(Angels don’t want Lackey back). There are some bad contracts out there. I would also do Chone Figgins and the Sox pay the difference to the Mariners( last case scenario).
The deal I thought would work was Lackey for Zambrano contract for contract but Theo doesn’t want him either. Too bad the guy made his bed with his crappy attitude.
Terry Collins will straighten him out….lol.
Attitude has nothing to do with it, he is pitching like Oliver Perez!
Where is MLB in all of this and how are they possibly letting this epic nightmare play out btw the Sox and Cubs and soon to drag in the Padres. I mean all joking aside, this is getting ridiculous, especially with the WS beginning tonight. I don’t like this one bit and it wouldn’t surprise me if the Sox and Cubs are fined by MLB sometime this week. For the love of god, half the people being discussed here are under contract. I thought there were protections in the sport against this, especially while the season is ongoing. Anybody got Torre’s number?
The people are being discussed by media and bloggers. Are there any quotes from actual front office people?
Only thing Hoyer has said is that he doesn’t comment on media speculation, and he’s busy looking for a hitting coach.
They can’t make an official announcement during the World Series. At this point, it’s all speculation from members of the media.
They can agree to the terms of the deal and finalize the deal… but they can’t announce anything. However, someone in the media can report the fact that there was an agreement or whatever.
Holy Cow, if the Padres are smart they will fire Hoyer before he ruins the whole team the way Wade did with the Astros. This is collusion, no one want John Lackey, next thing you know it will be Latos to the Cubs for Barney.
I’m curious, what would your response be if MLBTR put up a rumor that the Mariners were interested in acquiring A.J. Burnett under the condition the Yankees ate most of his salary?
collusion
clearly
Wrong!
Honestly, I expected him to just not respond rather than make a complete hypocrite of himself.
I like AJ, he is an innings eater, he has great stuff. Up until last year his lifetime ERA was the same as Beckett having pitched 2 years longer. I’ll take his 11 wins for 16 mill over the production of other players who are paid well and are always hurt. Who would you want last year AJ or Santana and Perez, Lackey and Dice K, or countless other pitchers who made big money and didn’t pitch and inning. AJ also came through in the playoffs when it counted the most. The Yanks were nursing 2 pitchers on the Verducci list and 2 old pitchers.
“I’ll take his 11 wins for 16 mill over the production of other players who are paid well and are always hurt.”
Wins? Really?
Okay, fair enough, we’ll play that game. Lackey had 12 wins last year, so he’s officially more valuable than Burnett. So, do you still want to play the collusion card, or are you content to be a complete hypocrite?
Your the one that doesn’t like Lackey with the Sox! Holy Cow eat more chicken!
1
These mega mergers of ex Gm’s like the Mets organization are a scam, they won’t produce many champions. You win with good players not a good front office, these guys arn’t that smart to make chicken salad out of ———. The best part of baseball is that it is random case in point, the Giants and Cards, or Randy Wolf this year and Cliff Lee this year. Can’t believe that Halladay and Lee haven’t won a series yet, almost getting like the Braves of the 90’s.
I think that lackey’s struggles speak volume of the difference between the AL east and the rest of the divisions. I am a true advocate that if Lackey went back to LA he would be somewhat of the pitcher he was before. In the AL east, Lackey’s value takes a huge hit.
The offenses in the AL east really are something, there’s just no push over in terms of offense..
even the 4th and 5th teams had really good offenses, they just couldn’t pitch..
Its not just fringe starters like lackey who take a hit, even doc since moving to the NL has found some breathing room..
it really makes a difference to play those bottom dweller, can’t hit a beach ball offenses a few times a year.
It’s all about the money and free agency, years ago Don Larsen pitched a perfect game in the world series, his lifetime record was 71-81 and he played for 6 teams. Today with free agency players all get more money than their worth so their doomed to failure. If their was a limit on contracts to 4 years it would help, but we know this will never happen. For this reason you are seeing players having opt out clauses in their contracts like CC. They are don’t want to get crusified if they fail.
WOW. IS ANYONE taking Bill Center seriously?
The guy is a hack. One of the worst sports writers in America writing for THE worst rag printed in a major city.
Once you are done dismissing anything Center says go look at Heyman’s track record.
Find a credible source.
Hoyer is likley NOT going to be leaving San Diego with TWO years left on his contract and after turning around the franchises farm system completely. If anyone goes from San Diego its MUCH more likely that Byrnes or McLeod would follow/precede Epstein to Chicago.
The Red Sox should use Lackey’s salary to research a time machine. If it works, GREAT. We can reverse the contract. If all we get out of it is a metal box, it might still pitch better than Lackey. Who knows, we don’t really have much of a choice at this point.