The Phillies are targeting Cardinals outfielder Jon Jay, according to Jayson Stark of ESPN.com. The Phils are apparently intrigued by what Jay did in his rookie season last year, when he hit .300/.359/.422 in 323 plate appearances and played all three outfield positions. Here’s a closer look at what the Phillies’ interest in Jay could mean:
- The Phillies are considering ways of adding outfielders to the organization, which just lost Jayson Werth. Raul Ibanez becomes a free agent after the season and Shane Victorino is eligible for free agency after 2012, so the Phillies’ outfield could look considerably different in a couple of seasons.
- The Cardinals aren't the only ones who like Jay, a career .301 hitter in the minors who ranked 13th among St. Louis' prospects before last year, according to Baseball America.
But…
- Just because the Phillies have targeted Jay doesn’t mean they’re willing to meet the Cardinals’ asking price.
- And it doesn't mean that the Cardinals are willing to give Jay up. Before the 2010 season, Baseball America described him as a rangy outfielder with a fringy arm and a knack for hitting for average. He's under team control through 2016 and won't hit arbitration before the 2012-13 offseason, so he'll be cheap for a while.
- It doesn’t mean that Jay, who turned 26 yesterday, is the Phillies' lone target – or even their primary target.
- Philadelphia’s interest doesn’t mean they’re expecting anything less from Domonic Brown, their top prospect. The 23-year-old is recovering from hand surgery and should be ready to return soon after the season begins.
Is this the start of another Joe Blanton trade rumor?
I hope not, anyone who thinks Blanton is getting you Jay needs to be curb-stomped.
Seriously as a Phils fan, we have traded away a ton of prospects in pursuit of Halladay, Lee, Oswalt and even Blanton, what’s left to deal that we won’t need at some point soon? There is a large gulf between the talent on the big club, and the talent in the low minors right now. Invest wisely Rube.
The Cardinals need a starting pitcher. It would be be a great fit.
Except the cardinals don’t need pitching and Blanton is overpaid
Cardinals don’t need pitching? They may not need Blanton but they need pitching.
Mclellan and Lohse had microscopic eras during the spring training and each threw a 1 hitter in there final starts, both starts being at least 5 innings. Our pitching staff being desperate has been exaggerated by people who arent close to our team or our situation. Lohse finally looks like hes going to start earning that contract now that hes finally healthy, and we still have carp, jaime, and westbrook.
lol ahhh the good ol he performed well in spring training justification.. A classic
ST stats aren’t proof, but i agree with the general point. the cards are comfortable with lohse and mcclellan at the bottom of the rotation at this point in the season. joe blanton isnt going to make up for the loss of wainwright and doesnt really represent a significant upgrade over the in house options. the cards might as well see how the pitching performs before making a trade.
blanton for jay doesn’t make much sense as the cards need the phils to eat essentially all of the contract and the phils would like to dump blanton’s salary.
Please tell me I misread that, and you’re not quoting spring training stats. Please.
Do you not read last year’s stats when hit around .300 so what’s your point. Plays good D and is quick. Already has good patience at plate and knows what his role is.
Is there any way the Cardinals would take kyle Kendrick off the Phillies hands. Instead of Joe Blanton IMO Joe Blanton is going to have a great year as the 5th starter on this ball club. And it would be just insane to give up pitching if you are a serious contender in 2011.
Cardinals don’t need/want Blanton. McClellan has been great in the pen the last few years and is doing great right now. It’s only spring but there is no need to make a trade to get a SP when the Cards already have enough guys on the staff that can step in as a very good 5th starter.
Joe Blanton would be a down grade to any spot in the rotation if we acquired him now. Other than lohse(even though I think he’ll have a good season). No point at all to acquire Blanton.
STL would be complete idiots to make any trades until Pujols is signed.
how so Petey?
So long as they are not adding salary or depleting it, minor trades of guys like Jay are fine.
Kendrick is a lot more likely than blanton
A Blanton for Jay trade does seem to make sense. Considering the need for a starter in St Louis add the inflated costs for pitching at status quo, an even up trade could dump blantons contract and get even up on player value in jay.
Cardinals don’t need a starter. Kyle McCllealn can get it done.
The Phillies should aim even higher and go after Colby Rasmus. He doesn’t get along with LaRussa, and players that don’t get along with LaRussa always get moved. The Phillies should just be patient, and pounce when the next Cardinal pitcher goes down. Rasmus would look mighty fine in Philadelphia’s outfield.
Sure, it will only cost the Phillies Dom Brown. Still game?
Rasmus>Brown
Rasmus would cost more than Brown.
Rasmus won’t be traded and if another pitcher goes down they’ll go with a minor leaguer before trading Rasmus for a starting pitcher. He’ll also be needed to provide some power along with Holliday if Pujols isn’t re-signed.
Rasmus is left handed… there’s absolutely no way the Phils trade for another lefty….
And more importantly… no way the Cardinals trade Rasmus.
Jon Jay is left-handed too…
John Jay wont be an everyday starter he’s a 4th/5th outfielder on the Phils… you dont trade away a ton of prospects for Rasmus to make him sit on the bench… he’d be starting an make that lefthanded line-up even more left-heavy…
another fan that thinks since TLR doesnt appreciate Rasmus that the cards want to trade him and his league minimum contract, albeit for a sack of marbles?!?!?!? ZOMG
Wouldn’t Felix Pie or Nolan Reimold make more sense for the OF needy Phils and pitching hungry O’s?
I like the Pie idea.
Pie’s always a good idea
Pie is a lefty… why would the Phillies need another left handed bat?
try again
Jon Jay is too…
“I love pie. And I love Oreos. Mmmmmmm and Oreo’s pie?
-Bartolo Colon.
Mmmmmmm…..45 Lunch Boxes…
If they would consider Reimold for Blanton, not only will I drive Blanton 90 min south on I-95 personally, I would also consider grabbing four of my friends and carrying him down Cleopatra style if the O’s so desire..
What would the phillies give to the Cardinals to entice one of their few cost controlled position players in the majors right now? Seriously next year they are going to be writing a big check to the man at first base and to left field, so jay’s cost may be needed to keep this team afloat. The cards are getting old fast.
I was thinking the same thing.
Scott Mathieson (to replace McClellan in the pen) and either Vance Worley/Kyle Kendrick (rotation depth in case McClellan can’t make the transition or another SP goes down) would help the Cards in the absence of Wainwright. Worley would be more attractive to the Cards because he’s cheaper than Kendrick, but the Phils might not give him up for that reason.
I’m guessing Manuel doesn’t like having only Ross Gload and Delwyn Young as lefty pinch-hitters (not counting the backup catcher, Brian Schneider). I don’t think outfield is their biggest need right now, though, with Utley and Polanco injured. Allen Craig might be a cheaper and better target, as he could also back up Polanco at 3B and allow Polanco (if healthy) to back up Utley at 2B.
Allen Craig has got a noodle for an arm. Even with his own elbow problems, Lance Berkman cracked a joke at Craig’s expense (although that’s not exactly surprising coming from Berkman).
Craig couldn’t handle 3B on a regular basis (otherwise he would have been there last year when Freese went down) Maybe for just a game or two he’d be serviceable, but he’s pretty much a 1B/LF/RF bat with some range and no arm.
The guy could probably hit .270/.330/.440 with 15-20 HR (probably more in small phil’s ballpark) if given the opportunity, but he’s got no position in StL with Berkman, Holliday and Pujols. I’ve been saying the Cards should be shopping Craig and M. Hamilton if their intention is truly to re-sign Pujols.
Rasmus can’t be had for anyone in the Phillies rotation. Obviously Halladay and Lee are good enough, but they are much to expensive for a team trying to fit Pujols, Holliday, and Wainwright in their budget. And the rest of the rotation isn’t worth Rasmus.
Phillies fans should worry about Brown. Broken hamate bones can sap a players power for a year or more.
Cole Hamels isn’t worth Rasmus?
also, Brown’s game doesn’t revolve around power, so its something to keep an eye on, but not dire.
Hamels, in the last year of his contract at close to 10M, no, he’s not worth Rasmus
I wouldn’t do it either.. Rasmus is too young, good, and hes cheap.
Hamels is in the last year of his deal, but isn’t a FA until 2013.
Hamels was a Super Two and has one more round at arbitration left after 2011. That award should probably be somewhere in the $15M range. Beyond that he may be in line for a contract with an annual value of near $20M. So Rasmus for Hamles would be a very expensive one year rental for 2011, and you would have to non-tender Hamels in 2012 if you were not interested in signing him beyond, so the Cards would not even be looking at compensation picks for him.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure the Cards could use Hamels, I just don’t see the fit there.
CAN yes, DOES not necessarily. Let’s not forget Tulo hit 15hr in 30 days last season, less than 90 days after hamate removal.
Not always. Dustin Pedroia had a broken hamate bone during the end of his rookie year, next season he more than doubled his home run total and won an MVP award.
Actually, most players come back fine… Tulo looked pretty good when he came back… (Not that I’m saying Brown is as good as Tulo… just an example)
Cole Hamels? Colby Rasmus? Phils wouldn’t take Rasmus AND Carpenter for Hamels. Please. Cole would be a good eight hitter though.
Which is good because I doubt the Cardinals would trade either Rasmus or Carpenter period.
Doc, sorry bud. I like Hamels a lot but I’m quite sure that your boy Ruben would jump on Colby and Carp for Hamels. It’s preposterous though since there’s not a GM in the league that would offer that trade. For comparison, would Phillies even think of trading Oswalt and Dom Brown for Verlander (who is better than Hamels)?
Yeah really sapped power from Tulo last summer….
See above, I meant to reply to Luis
I think there’s a typo in this article. Isn’t it supposed to read:
Examining The Phillies’ Interest In Evan Longoria?
examining Andrew Friedmen’s case against Evan Longoria for assault
No, it’s supposed to say:
“Examining Evan Longoria’s fist to his general manager’s face.”
blanton did well in his last outing. i know it’s spring training but still.
??? He was hit hard again in the 1st inning and gave up his share of hits/BBs. It was a serviceable outing but it doesn’t really mean much of anything. It’s spring training when established starters just typically work on pitches with a secondary concern about the results though.
Seriously, I’m tired of all the Blanton bashing… he had a bad year last year… otherwise he’s been a solid pitcher. 3.5-4.00 era and 200 innings 12-14 wins is not bad by any means. Is it worth 8.5 million? That’s debatable. But he’s at least a 3-4 on most staffs.
First of all, Blanton hasn’t posted an ERA of 3.50 since his rookie season in 2005 and he’s only had an ERA below 4.05 twice in his 6 year career. And he’s thrown 200+ innings just twice as well.
Having said that, he is certainly serviceable. He was worth the price in 2009, but was horrible last year. The fact that he posted a 3.48 ERA in the second half last year is encouraging though.
3.50-4.00 ERA? Nope. His SIERA hasn’t below 4.00 the past 2 years and because he is a HR-prone pitcher in a HR-friendly park my bet is won’t post an ERA below 4.50 this year. He’s a 3rd-4th starter at best. He a very good 5th starter but if the Phils can move him for an OF bat or help in the infield at 2B/3B they should definitely make it especially if they don’t have to move any cash to move him.
God I forgot how stupid Cardinals fans are. You guy do know Adam Wainright blew his arm out right? I don’t think Kyle McClellan is going to get the job done. Blanton’s a consistent start will give you 7 innings and about 3 runs a start and is good for 11-15 wins. Yeah his contract is a little silly but hey beggars can’t be choosey.
well if they want Pujols next year maybe spending that money for an average pitcher isn’t the best idea.
Maybe it’s Phillies fans that are dumb.
He didn’t blow his arm out, he needs TJS, it’s a 12 month injury, and he will likely be back for 12. over 90% of current pitchers come back just fine from it.
When is the last time Blanton averaged 7 innings a start?
He never has in his career.
Blanton is worth maybe 6 innings, and a 4.20 ERA, something the Cardinals can get internally.
Tell me, what makes you think McClellan can’t get it done? What in his history makes you think he can’t pitch well enough to go 6 innings and land a 4.20?
Let’s compare:
McClellan has a career 127 ERA+
Blanton has a 99
McClelallan has a 3.23 ERA
Blanton has a 4.30
McClellan has a 1.268 career WHIP
Blanton has a 1.343
McClellan has allowed 8 hits per 9
Blanton has allowed 9.6
McClellan has averaged 7 k’s per 9
Blanton 5.8
McClellan is averaging a 2.3 WAR per 200 innings pitched
Blanton 0.9
Now tell me, what on earth makes you think McClellan can’t get it done, and that the Cardinals should trade one of their only cost controlled offensive players for an overpaid starting pitcher when they are already trying to keep finances in check currently?
On top of this, the Cardinals have tremendous 5th starter depth, there are a number of guys that the Cardinals should look at internally instead of looking outside of the organization. If they did look outside the organization, guys like Millwood are much more likely to be signed.
Face if, you are stuck with Blanton, and the only stupid posters on here are the one’s suggesting the Cardinals need Blanton when they obviously do not.
Your post makes me realize this site needs a LOVE button!
You are comparing a reliever’s stats to a starters. Of course McClellan’s stats are going to be blown up when he’s only pitching a couple innings at a time, never seeing the rotation cycle through. Everyone is better as a reliever. It’s apples to oranges.
to clarify, i’m not defending Blanton, i’m just pointing out the flaws in your logic
I will say that in his defense, it was a great attempt to use logic to show why the Cardinals would be better off just keeping Jay and McClellan over trading Jay for Blanton.
As a Cardinals fan, I would only want Blanton if the Phils ate the majority of his salary…and even then I would only offer Jay. Cardinals fans don’t really like or want Blanton. He doesn’t seem to make sense for our team.
I wouldn’t take that trade. The Phils want Jay for the same reason the Cards need him. The Cards don’t really have glaring needs that the Phillies would be willing to fill.
The only way the Cards trade Jay is if they get a league minimum salaried starting middle infielder in return, preferably a SS. Theriot would move to 2B and Skip to 4th OF. But no one, well maybe the Angels but especially not the Phillies, is going to give up that kind of talent for a backup outfielder.
I did mean to say, ‘granted these numbers are based on relief appearances vs a starters’. There is still no reason to think McClellan can’t get it done though, and that he can’t pitch as well as Blanton can.
Obviously, his era and era+ will both take a hit becoming a starter, but there isn’t much reason to believe he would be any worse than Blanton, and he obviously will cost a lot less, Cardinals already have him anyway, and a number of other reasons.
Yeah I don’t understand how they can be so confident in their staff either after Carpenter. Garcia had alot of luck last year and is much more likely to be a guy with an ERA closer to 4 this year than 3. Westbrook is solid but a middle of the rotation starter. Lohse is a guy who has been an average/below average starter 3 of the past 4 years. McCellan is frankly needed in the pen. Cards could definitely use a starter the caliber of Blanton to give them another solid starter & move McCellan to start the season in the pen to shore up the Cards’ middle relief.
Shore up middle relief? First of all Kyle would be set up, not ‘middle relief’. Also we have a surplus of relief pitching. Salas, motte, Boggs, Miguel battista, t miller, tallet, Eduardo Sanchez, augentstein, maybe Blake king.
Samuel and Lynn as well.
What happened to Ottavino this spring? He hasn’t even gotten a look. At the beginning of spring he was listed as a guy with an outside chance of making the 5th starter spot…
Yea, the Cards depth is in RHRP and Corner OF/1B bats.
And McClellan has been one of the best setup men in the game the last two years. Calling him a middle reliever is almost an insult and reveals that you don’t really know the Cards too well…
Hey, how was Carp and Garcia lucky last year when Carp won 16 games. Besides Doc, who on the Phillies won 16 games. Oh and in 09 Carp led the NL in ERA. Carp when he has been healthy is better than any anybody you have, excludiing Doc. Garcia was very good last year and who’s to say that he would be worse. Lohse has only been with the Cards for 3 years and last 2 he’s been hurt when he had never been hurt in his life. But you seem to be a Philly fan who thought that the Cards should have included somebody else when Pujols for Howard trade was brought up. That wouldn’t even be close for the Cards. Howard is older than Albert and Howard’s SO for 1 year is about equal to 3 for Albert. Does Howard even hit in the vicinity with Albert, no.
Albert has the highest AVE of any MLBP in league right now. So come on back and talk to me when you get some stats straight.
Cardinals fans are stupid?
Who got tazed last season?
Which morons pointed a laser pointer at the eyes of players of an opposing team with 90+ mph baseballs being thrown at them?
Which group of super smart guys booed Santa at an Eagles game?
Wasn’t it a drunk Phillies fan that mowed down two innocent women after a Phillies home game?
What kind of genius’s riot after their team wins the World Series?
Yeah we Cardinal fans are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to wits, give me a break.
Who vomited intentionally on another fan?
Who throws batteries at a draft pick that didn’t sign with them?
The list goes on.
But, there are bad fans in every group, just Phillies fans are very obvious about their bad fans.
+1 for listing things that happened 60+ years ago.
Just goes to show you just can’t live some things down…
Not speaking from personal experience of course.
And the Cardinals are not the ones looking, so who is really begging here?
Blanton’s a decent pitcher but the Cards can’t take on a big financial commitment through 2012 when Pujols is hitting FA after this year. They’ll look to cheaper options (like McClellan and perhaps Lance Lynn) first. The Phils have pitching to send to St. Louis (Kendrick and Worley come to mind), but Blanton’s contract kills a deal with St. Louis centered around him.
The Phils can get value back for Blanton, but it will have to be either a big contract coming back or the Phils footing a big chunk of Blanton’s salary for this and next year. And if the Phils are footing most of Blanton’s contract, they might as well keep him.
I see Jay as a fringe starter anyway, so I doubt he makes a big impact for either club.
With that said, a move like that would help the Phillies. And since the Braves may very well need a center fielder(or at least a backup one), I hope they can block it if it does end up going down. That’s assuming the asking price is moderate, which it should be if he really is available. Keep the Phillies old as possible, lol.
Any reason the Phillies are interested in ANOTHER left handed bat?
Their bench is weak, especially from the left side. Ross Gload is their top LH pinch-hitter. Their options for a second lefty PH (not counting backup C Brian Schneider) are Delwyn Young, Pete Orr, Michael Martinez, and Brandon Moss. Not a Matt Stairs or Greg Dobbs circa 2007-08 in the bunch.
They’d also like a viable CF option if Shane Victorino goes down for any length of time; their two options there (Ben Francisco and John Mayberry Jr.) are both stretched defensively in CF. Shifting Francisco to CF would put Gload in right, which is ugly defensively and kills the bench.
The Cardinals absolutely need another starting pitcher. Wainwright’s out for the year, and Carpenter and Lohse aren’t exactly the picture of health. If either Carp or Lohse goes down, the Cards are looking at TWO vacant rotation spots.
Meanwhile, the Cards are loaded with potential rightfield options between Lance Berkman, John Jay, Allen Craig, Shane Robinson and Matt Carpenter. They have the room to trade at least one of them for a starting pitcher. And they have a bigger need for starting pitching than hitting. It should be fairly obvious what they need to do.
As for Blanton, he wouldn’t work with most teams, but I think he would in St. Louis. Why? Four words: pitching coach Dave Duncan. The Cards should do this deal if the Phillies offer Blanton.
But Jon Jay Is our only left handed option for the outfield. Plus, Matt carpenter only plays 3rd base.
Berkman is a switch hitter and bats better left. Plus Rasmus bats left and plays center. Carpenter can learn to play right if his bat is hot enough. My point is they’ve got an abundance of potential rightfielders and some question marks in their rotation. I don’t see how the team can believe that rightfield is more important than starting pitching. And Jay, for as good as he’s been, is expendable for the right pitcher.
Because Blanton isn’t that big of an upgrade over McClellan, especially when considering his pricetag.
I agree, if M. Carp is ready for the big leagues, then the Cards should listen on Allen Craig.
I don’t buy what your selling.
If Lincecum goes down… If Halladay goes down… If CC goes down… If Buerhle goes down…
Any team that loses it’s top starters (or in the Cards case, their top two starters) is going to have to shuffle to make things work. The Cards are doing just that. With the financial restrictions, taking on a guy like Blanton is going to be hard from the start.
But I agree that the Cards should be looking to trade Allen Craig (if they get a serviceable return) and promoting Matt Carpenter to the big leagues.
I dont want the Phils to trade a reliable starter for a backup outfielder when they already have guys that can fill in for Shane.
Blanton doesnt seem like a good fit. I bet if they are discussing this, its the Phils young BP guys like Mathieson and Stutes and/or Worley.
Perhaps, but the Cards already have a deep bullpen, especially from the right side. So the Phils would have to be giving up a top notch bullpen arm (preferrably a lefty with closer stuff). I don’t know the Phillies system well enough to give any names.
If the Cards do trade Jay, they’ll move Skip to backup CF and play either Descalso or Greene at 2B. So the Cards do have the depth to pull this off. The return would have to be notable though and the players received would have to be ready to contribute on opening day.
If the Phils really want to make this trade happen, they take Jon Jay and Daniel Descalso. Descalso plays 2B, and projects to have good average and fielding, with some pop (maybe 7-10 HR over 500 ABs, maybe more in CBP). I hear the Phillies are content with their in-house guys in place of Utley, so this might be unwarranted, but it gives the Phils a bit more return on what they’ll undoubtedly have to give up.
The Cards need, as I said before, a LHP or (if RH) a can’t miss closer prospect. They could also do with a good fielding, league average hitting SS and move Theriot to 2B. The Cards need can’t miss prospects (doesn’t everyone) because they’ve got fringe-type players lined up at nearly every position on the diamond.
Another thing: it’s so late in the Spring. Messing with a lineup and chemistry this late can really get a team started on the wrong foot. Combined with the fact that the Cards don’t really have any glaring holes (they do have areas of need, but no holes) right now that aren’t filled with a decent candidate. Bottom line, if they Phillies want Jay, they’ll simply have to overpay.
Example of an overpay? Jesse Biddle.
The Phillies are in that same situation – they have areas of need, but they are not ‘glaring holes’. We have a quality starter who is expendable for the right offer, but they are not deperate to trade him.
It seems both sides see themselves as having something to offer, but the other side does not value what they have as much.
Joe Blanton is a reliable starter, who give you your innings, but is certainly no ‘ace’. He’s not really a serious upgrade for the Cardinals though, since they are very deep pitching-wise, so I just don’t see why people keep tossing his name out around them.