The Yankees, who heard this week that Andy Pettitte will retire, have considered exploring trades for other left-handers, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Joe Saunders, Scott Kazmir, Wade LeBlanc, Clayton Richard and Gio Gonzalez are among the possible targets some Yankees people have "kicked around."
The Yankees will, in all likelihood, wait and hope for better things from A.J. Burnett instead of pursuing another arm, writes ESPN.com's Buster Olney. The Yankees could pursue Joe Blanton via trade or make a play for free agent Kevin Millwood, but the club seems likely to let Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, Sergio Mitre and Ivan Nova battle for rotation spots. With prospects Andrew Brackman, Dellin Betances and Manuel Banuelos on the radar, the Bronx Bombers aren't desperate for pitching, even without Pettitte.
Yankees fans may be frustrated that the front office did not sign Cliff Lee or retain Pettitte, but their club is still strong. As one American League East executive tells Joel Sherman of the New York Post, “People would love to have their problems. On paper they are still about as good as you want to see."
I’m suprised Maholm wasn’t mentioned as a possible target…hasn’t he been on the trading block?
The Yankees don’t want guys already on the block. They want guys other teams aren’t looking to give up. Why on earth would Oakland part with Gonzales or would SD part with either Richard or LeBlanc?
Notice no mention of what the Yankees would be willing to give up.
Why would the Angels trade for Vernon Wells. You never know what a team is willing to do. The Yankees don’t have the best farm system around but they’ve got some pieces SD or OAK might want.
Keith Law ranked it 7th I believe. Not the best, but amongst the tops in baseball.
And ranked as high as 5 by some scouts!
i think the phrase is beggars can’t be choosers especially with whats currently available…but i dont think the yankees are desperate just yet the rotation could be a lot worse
I completely agree with you. Those are some very solid young arms. The Yankees live in a fantasy land
Fantasy land? Not when you possess the #1 prospect in all of baseball, in the person of Jesus Montero
If he’s so good, why wouldn’t they want to hang on to him when they have an aging posoda?
Russel Martin is the starting catcher, Posada is the fulltime DH.
You’re welcome.
Either way posada will be leaving the line up in a year or two, champ.
Mike Trout says hi.
Montero was 9th, not number 1. Trout was number 1
it depends on who/what list you look at, Montero has been as high as 4 and as low as 9
4 =/= 1 either…
I think the previous posts obviously point out your ignorance. Montero is hardly even top 5 talent. Let alone the best.
I just find it kinda funny how u said that…Montero is hardly even a top 5 prospect in all of baseball he must suck
I agree. That’s not a realistic proposal (Gio Gonzales or LeBlanc), Billy Beane and Jed Hoyer will want to hang on to their young inexpensive talent. But I think Maholm could be available he is making $5 million this year and is a free agent. He is better than Millwood.
Real talk though, if the Yanks put Swisher+Montero up for Gio, Beane will have Gio in pinstripes by the end of the sentence.
Montero is the #1 prospect in ALL of baseball. You don’t need to include anyone else in a trade for Gio. Montero + a low draft pick should be more than enough.
Yankees would still have to give up more, Oakland doesn’t really want to deal a keypart of an already imressive rotation.
Montero? Number one? HA! Yankees fans…
He has been ranked by the people who know baseball and evaluate talent for their job. he is one of the top prospects in the game today.
What is the problem?That he is in the Yankees farm system?
All fanbases will hype their own prospects fan is short for fanatic.
Its fine to say Montero’s #1, no problem there. Though, once you try to defend your statement it doesn’t make sense to say, “Montero’s # 1 because I say so and people who know baseball say so”. So what your saying is either you agree with me or you don’t know anything about baseball, which is obviously ridiculous.
Who say Montero is #1 ? Baseball America doesn’t, Keith Law wouldn’t agree with you, or John Sickels. I know there’s more people then just that so why don’t you enlighten us. If someone out there who’s reputable considers him so then help a buddy out and pass over the info. Just saying “people who know baseball” makes you look smug.
Jesus Montero as a catcher is arguably the top prospect in baseball. Jesus Montero as a DH isn’t in the top 10.
please go look at mlb and espn for the list of the number 1 prospect. its mike trout he is not in the top 5, doesnt mean he isnt good. but this is the second time you made that mistake
Not sure because he already traded Swish in 2008 to the White Sox and he is making $9 million this year.
Even though they signed Matsui as a DH, Oakland does need power from the corner outfielders.
Beane could get that power by trading for Bautista from the Blue Jays and giving up less. He’s a 2012 free agent.
Not to mention that Susuki isn’t a awful hitting catcher either.
Why would they include Swisher in that deal?
The Yanks can trade Swisher or Gardner mid- year for a better pitcher like Dempster.
If I were a Yankee fan, at this point I would want the best available pitchers, right handed or left handed. Grabbing the least objectionable lefty of the scrap heap is not going to help.
LeBlanc is nothing special and the Padres have already shown their cards when they move Adrian Gonzalez: Rebuilding. Petco makes their pitching look really good but a closer look at their pitchers home/road splits shows they are human. If the Padres could get a nice piece or two for LeBlanc why not?
I agree. However, LeBlanc as of today is probably the odd man out in San Diego. He is probably lower on the depth chart that Moseley or Luebke. Then the Padres also have Castro who could be up mid to late season. To get Richard, it would take a very good prospect.
“Joe Saunders, Scott Kazmir, Wade LeBlanc, Clayton Richard and Gio Gonzalez are among the possible targets some Yankees people have “kicked around.””
With the exception of Blanton, I didn’t even know some of these guys were even available.
It would probably take a lot to get him, but the only guy I like above is Gio Gonzalez. We know how much Billy Beane loves the prospects.
“Yankees fans may be frustrated that the front office did not sign Cliff Lee or retain Pettitte”
How can the fans blame the Yankees front office on either of these 2 things?
Which is what kind of pisses me off about some Yankee fans. I’m a Yankee fan for life don’t get me wrong. But a lot of Yankee fans aren’t BASEBALL fans, need to realize that some players just don’t blend with New York & people are mad that Lee has balls.
There’s lots of blame going around where there shouldn’t be blame to start with. Yankees did all they could do. It’s not like Philly gave Lee a bigger contract than us.
Honestly I have more respect for Lee now than I ever did. He stuck to his principles and returned to the city and team he had felt comfortable, fun and success in.
Same here. There was probably nothing the Yankees could of done as it relates to Pettitte. The guy wants to retire and spend his time with family. I read an article that got me fired up yesterday where it said the Yankees have been spurned by 2 top left handed pitchers this offseason. Pettiitte would have only pitched for the Yankees so where that statement was true I guess it also isn’t I don’t know if that makes sense. If the Yankees had traded for Lee and he liked it there which he probably would have he could very well be a Yankee but thats how it goes. Just an idea good chance it won’t happen but they were talking on the MLB network that if the Mariners don’t want to pay the high salary of King Felix he might be available this year or maybe even this offseason who knows but if he does the Yankees would pounce on that. The thing that I don’t like is how this year not one person has seemed to say anything at all negative about the Red Sox but when the Yankees did what they did 2 years ago there were negative things said and CC can’t handle the AL East blah blah blah. Its just never a win win and nobody say I’m jealous or sore save it just giving my opinion. A lot can happen in a season. I wouldn’t trade for a top pitcher though if they weren’t young or under control for a while.
The negativity came from the over 400 million spent by the Yankees in one offseason which I personally had no problem with! They won a title, nuff said! The Red Sox spent 140 million on 1 FA, Crawford and trade 3 top prospects for Gonzalez! U really can’t compare the 2 at all!
That’s why everyone in is calling the Phills and the Sox evil empire 2
I’m not particularly familiar with the Yankee fanbase, but I’d expect that most of all sports fans are casual and aren’t interested in studying the game as thoroughly as you or I.
exactly. don’t blame the FO. they offered lee the biggest contract and got turned down. they did the best they could. pettitte decided to retire at this point in his life and the yankees said he has 12mil on the table if he changes his mind. how is that a fail on the FO?
Because Ca$hman has been unable to pull the trigger now that “The Boss” isn’t around, even going as far as criticizing the Steinbrenners’ decision to get Soriano, as if he was also an owner. Most of the trades he has done in which the boss wasn’t mentioned as ‘interested’, backfired on Ca$hboy.
I was referring to Lee and Pettitte not coming, you can’t blame anyone on that. It was their decisions. It’s not the front office fault. They did what they could have done.
That’s true. But Cashman virtually put all his eggs in one basket with Lee. Instead of throwing a wrench in Theo’s offer to Crawford to give him some time, he did nothing. Cashman could have signed Crawford and then turned around and dished Gardner + some prospects for a starting pitcher.
Lee and Pettitte weren’t his fault, but the situation that they’re in right now is. He sat idle while Lee was deciding rather than planting some seeds elsewhere in case Lee decided not to sign with the Yanks.
Crawford wont fix a pitching issue… the yanks have one of the best outfields in baseball right now, if not the best…
Crawford was a luxury.. Can’t blame Cash at all for putting all his eggs in Lee’s basket. There were no other high end starters even available.
Crawford doesn’t fix the pitching issue directly, but it frees up some room in the OF for trade bait (Gardner) to go out and deal a solid player for a solid pitcher. It gives them options. That’s what I said.
Gardner has little value right now since he had surgery in the off-season… why trade low on him? Makes absolutely zero sense. And no way the yanks were gonna top the absurd offer crawford got from the sox for, as i said, a luxury. If he were a necessity then of course they would have.
Gardner had minor surgery on his wrist. His value isn’t any lower than what it was during the season. That being said, he’s not going to bring a top pitcher back anyway.
At a humongous and unacceptable expense. The ONLY place where the Yanks have some financial flexibility is in the OF. Signing Crawford would’ve been a bad deal for the Yankees. Great player, but that’s not the most efficient way of fixing the problem. Swisher is a good ballplayer and Gardner has the making of a good one as well but, IMO, the prospects would probably have more impact on a trade for a pitcher than either OF would. Soooooo …..
Swisher + Montero + $140 mil for Crawford < Montero + prospect + prospect and keep the $140 mil.
And I'm pretty sure that a Montero led prospect package will probably bring just as good of a high quality pitcher anyway.
Can someone tell me who this high quality pitcher we should be able to get is by the way?
I can’t think of the front line starter that Cashman could traded for. They didn’t like Greinke in NY, the Astros re-signed Wandy Rodriquez, the Rays and the Blue Jays weren’t going to trade Garza and Marcum within the division.
The only move that was in their control was to sign Soriano.
I agree.
So spend $140 mil plus and then trade for a pitcher who’s probably making a lot of $$$$ as well and use Swisher or Gardner plus valuable prospects to get a pitcher? WHAT PITCHER!!!!! Please take 15 minutes and go thru mlb dot coms depth chart pages and look at each teams starting 5 and tell me who is available that’s worthy of all that?
What you sugested is the text book DEFINITION of an overreaction and when a GM overreacts stupid trades get done.
Right now, there is ZERO reason to make a trade for anyone who will not deliver a better than 4.00 FIP. It makes ZERO sense to trade for a #4 or #5 type pitcher (see Blanton) because those types are not going to make an impact. If one of those front/mid rotation guys are not available then just suck it up and hope that CC, Hughes and AJ can do their jobs and see if someone becomes available by July. And if it means taking a step back in 2011 and preparing for a better 2012 then so be it.
All GM’s have their good and bad moves.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. If anything, the deals that “THe Boss” insisted on have been bigger back fires. Arod’s extension, Randy Johnson, Sheffield over Vlad, etc. Not to say that Cashman is perfect because he isn’t, but I trust his logic more so than anyone else in the organization’s upper levels.
And saying he hasn’t been able to pull the trigger since the boss isn’t around is a dumb statement. It wasn’t the Boss who had conversations with CC, Tex or AJ. Cashman does a better job of recruiting free agents as well as Levine or the Sons who I think have a higher sense of entitlement than Cash does.
They can’t blame the FO, but that won’t stop a ton of irrational Yankees fans from blaming them lol.
That’s true, but I’m not one of them and I can see Brian isn’t either. I think if you want to blame them for something the most, it’s for overpaying Soriano. Losing a late first round draft pick for an all star reliever is worth it.
I wasn’t saying you were, because obviously you were the one who brought up the point. But I know some will because every fan base, my own included, have fans that have absolutely zero perspective. I would disagree about Soriano being worth the lost draft pick (aside from the money as well) though. Imo he won’t fair well in NY for a few reasons, those being that he is an extreme fly ball pitcher in a park with that short porch in right, and I don’t think he has the mental makeup to succeed in NY. The Rays had to practically beg him to pitch the last game of the ALDS. That speaks something to his attitude, and it’s not an attitude that I think Yankees fans will be tolerant of.
I respectfully disagree. Majority of prospects turn out to be busts, and plus this is a late round draft pick, not an early first round draft pick. If you could trade a late round pick for an all star reliever, I think it’s worth it. Sometimes drafted players don’t even step foot in the major leagues, some only play for a few years at most and are busts. Different teams have different ways of scouting, I’m sure the Yankees whoever they wanted with the 31st pick, will probably get the same player they wanted another 10 picks later or so.
Eventual bust or not, that late first round draft pick could very well be spun at the 2012 deadline if the Yankees need a piece. Teams like the Sox and Yankees need those picks to develop trade bait in addition to plugging holes.
Casey Kelly and Reymond Fuentes may never amount to anything at the MLB level, but those two late first round picks (31 and 28 respectively) were half of the package that landed the Sox Adrian Gonzalez. And hey, maybe Kolbrin Vitek’ll never amount to anything, but his scouting reports and projectability alone would make him a valuable trade chip at the trade deadline this year.
I think you’re severely underestimating the value of a late first rounder by ignoring their use as trade chips. As long as they don’t flare out in their first year or two of pro ball, a high draft pick is a valuable tool in a trade.
Well think of it this way, the Yankees traded a draft pick (and $39 million) for an all star reliever. Since money isn’t much of an issue to the team, I will take the trade, as of now. I’m not comparing A-Gonz to Soriano, and the Yankees certainly overpaid for him, but I just think people worry about draft picks way too much. As I said, the Yankees have scouted a lot differently. Who is to say they player they have planned for that pick won’t be available their next pick (they get a pick for Vazquez going). Last year with their 31st pick the Yankees drafted Cito Culver. He was not even in the top 100 players, maybe even top 125 or 150.
Maybe so, but you still need to have a well stocked farm system to make trades, even if they are in the late first round. Late first rounders are still good players, a good bunch of decent prospects don’t get picked early because some smaller market teams will have signability concerns. Your rival Red Sox used late first round picks to add a superstar player this year. Now the Yankees, who don’t have any high picks in this upcoming draft, will continue to sport a thin farm system. Remember, players(without no trade clauses of course) can’t say no to their team trading them when you have the prospects, so you don’t get shunned by free agents like Cliff Lee. You could have had a better shot this year at adding a pitcher via trade but the thin farm that the Yankees have makes moving any of your quality farm hands a grueling decision.
Good points. But many of the Yankees top homegrown players are 2nd round picks or laters. Not going to go through every one of them. Sanchez was a 2nd rounder, Gardner was a 3rd rounder. Betances was 8th Robertson was 17th round.
And to go a while back, while 3 of the core 4 are still active, only DJ was a first round draft pick. Rivera signed as an amateur, Pettitte and Posada were 22 and 24th rounders.
I’m not saying the draft pick won’t be a valuable pick, but just bear in mind that whoever the Rays pick with that pick might not necessarily be a player who the Yankees would pick.
I’m just saying I think it was worth the trade IF Soriano lives up to his contract.
Sanchez was a international free agent, not a 2nd round pick. But more to your point, the Yanks have done a great jon in their international signings (Montero and Sanchez), who by the way aren’t even top 5 in bonuses handed out to international free agents, and they’ve shown a great ability to find good players after the 3rd round (Betances and Austin Jackson in the 8th, Gardner and Adam Warren in the 3rd or 4th, David Phelps and David RObertson in the 17th or so, Brandon Laird somewhere in the 20’s.
Wrong catcher, I meant Romine, not Sanchez. My mistake and thanks on the correction.
Farm system rankings fluctuate every year, but not just by who is drafted, it also fluctuates on the seasons the players put together, and of course simply, what players get called up or traded. I’m not saying the pick wouldn’t be useful, but it’s certainly worth a trade, in my mind, to give up one. As I said, Yankees success usually comes in later rounds anyway.
You have zero info on the Yanks farm system. It’s been rated anywhere from #5 to #7 this winter. They have a surplus of pitchers and catchers throught the system.
Soriano was a good move IMO just not the right deal.
Exactly.
Gio Gonzalez is the one that sticks out in my mind. The A’s had a very solid offseason, and are putting together a team to try to contend. They’re not going to instantly be sellers because the Yankees are buyers. The A’s have a fantastic rotation, especially if Anderson can stay healthy. No way the A’s trade away Gio, not this year.
Ben wrote it, not I. I was just pointing out if that it was true that he’s available, I’d say maybe see what the A’s want. Although Beane would probably ask for a bit too much, I think a couple of years ago, Yankees were interested in an A’s player (can’t remember who), and Beane wanted both Hughes and Joba (when Joba was effective at the time).
Yeah I was referring to the article, not to your post. I was trying to agree with you that I had no idea that Gio was even available.
Beane would have to dominate the trade if he’s going to dish Gio. Montero + Gardner + 1 or something ungodly that everyone would shake their head at.
I agree with this. Montero+Swisher get Gio, absolutely. Going forward, the A’s are really thin at corner OF spots.
For the yanks to get Gio it would cost more than a Montero/swisher deal since Montero is a DH in the making and Swisher is in his last year. Beane also rarely trades with teams that he will contend with in the playoffs or even in the same league as the A’s. The author of this article just threw a bunch of young lefties up there.
I don’t even think THAT is enough, Oakland is not going to trade Gio Gonzalez to the Yankees today, unless the return is incredible. Why make the yankees stronger opponents for the WC when you are in a position to contend yourself possibly? No AL team who thinks they have a shot at 90 wins/divison/wild card is trading the Yankees a starting pitcher, least of all a pitcher like Gonzalez, unless the return is HUGE, and severely weakens another part of the yankees lineup.
Trust me. ANYONE the yankees trade with is going to demand a gross overpay in return for any pitcher of substance.
Danny Haren!
I hear and agree with ya but its Cashman’s job to ask. If Billy Beane falls out off his chair or has a heart attack laughing at him or even hang ups the phone on him, then fine. It’s his job to ask. At least he tried.
No one believed the Vernon Wells would be moved this year.
Yeah, ppl have to keep in mind, this list wasn’t put together by Cashman or anyone else in the orgainzation. It’s simply a writer speculating, as we all do, about possible trade options. I’ve done the same all winter and have come to realize that there simply isn’t any #1-#3 types on the market but possibly one or two scenarions that could pop up depending on how poorly teams are doing by July.
I assure you, Kazmir can be made available..
When wasn’t he available?
Kaz for Joba. The Yankees seem to HATE Joba, and Kazmir is a safety liability even as a peanut vendor.
Kaz was one of the worst pitchers in baseball last year. He walked almost as many as he struck out! No thanks…
They can’t blame them for not signing them, but they can blame them for not having a backup plan. Once Lee was off the board, they should have moved on someone else, but didn’t. Pettite has been leaning towards retirement since October.
They may have the best bullpen in Baseball. They need an innings eater, and salary should not come into play.
There was no one else available aside from Greinke who he didn’t feel comfortable with. Cashman has shown the ability to multi-task. This idea that he had a chance to trade for front line pitching but choose not to is absurd. You know why? Because no other front line pitcher has been traded elsewhere and I’m sure that IF Cashman was waiting for Lee to decide then he would’ve gone back and worked out whatever deals he had on the side. No one is trading top of the line starters this winter and there’s no need to trade for someone incapable of posting a sub 4.00 FIP.
Please trade for Barry Zito!!
As Dr. Evil says- How Bout Noooooooooooo
WOuld you believe that was actually a post on fangraphs yesterday? Unbelievable.
The Yankees rotation consists of CC Sabathia and then a bunch of 2003 All-Stars. So much for the evil empire…. Are they working with confederate money now too?
Weird since Hughes was only 17 in 2003…
And Nova was 16
Walt Jocketty called. How about sending Brett Gardner to the Queen City for a fine young lefthander in Travis Wood? He’s friends and a training partner with Cliff Lee, which is about as close as the Yanks are gonna come to getting his services.
sounds like a crank call…
go check his major and minor league stats first. He’s a quality arm, better than all the other names that are getting thrown about right now. Maholm, Millwood, Blanton, LOL
But still not worth Gardner.
agreed it would just create another hole to be filled
But he isn’t better than some of the prospects we have right now and he isn’t a sure bet to give us what we need and that’s 200 IP of sub 4.00 FIP. No sense in making a move just to make a move.
In what world is a starting rotation of C.C. Sabathia, Phil Hughes, A.J. Burnett, Ivan Nova and Sergio Mitre “as good as you want to see”?
Source: newyork.yankees.mlb.com/team/depth_chart/index.jsp…
Though, the comment’s original intent was more for humor.
I read it as: “[The team as a whole is] as good as you want to see.”
I am 99.9% sure Mitre will not be the #5.
I think that there is a better chance of Freddy Garcia being 5
The Yanks ‘just’ have three of the better ranked catchers in Gary Sánchez, Austin Romine and the highest catcher overall in Montero, and the best lefthanded pitcher in the minors in Manuel Bañuelos. AJAX proved he could hit in the majors and up until 2009 he was in their minor leagues. Maybe what happens is that they don’t tend to overhype their minor leaguers as other teams do.
I don’t think Montero will be a Catcher. He might be better suited for the OF in LF or RF.
The Yankees have 2 years left on Grandersons contract but a club option after. And 2011 is the last year on Swisher’s contract although he also has a club option
I think for the Yankees, it would be best to let Granderson go after his contract is over in 2 years (unless Swisher collapses and the Yankees don’t want him back but I doubt that happens). And I would put Gardner in CF in 2013, and then bring up Montero to LF. And call up Sanchez or Romine to C.
Uh, no, the Royals have the best _three_ left handed pitchers in the minors. Montero is a great bat, but ultimately just a DH.
Actually…he is a catcher. Regardless of whether you, I or scouts think so, that will be his position until he’s moved from there. Also, if he’s traded elsewhere, then I imagine 1B would be an option. And if he is as good as ppl say who cares where he plays? .300/.375/.550 caliber guys don’t grow on trees.
“the best lefthanded pitcher in the minors in Manuel Bañuelos.”
Did Chapman, Montgomery, Minor, Britton and Perez all die? Banuelos is a fantastic prospect but he would do well to crack a top 10 overall LHP prospect list.
mlb top 10 lefties- Banuelos @ #10
Chapman, Minor, and Perez will be in the majors!
I hear ya’, what pisses me off is that fans that call themselves “yanks fans” don’t even remember the dreaded late 1980’s teams we rooted for, back when the yanks traded for has-beens, and bought sub 0.250 AVG, sub 0.330 OBP hitters… like Cashman has been doing as of lately =/
HEY maybe he could call Phill Niekro!
Haha…..Rich Rhoden, Melido Perez, John Montefusco, Phil and Joe Niekro, Andy Hawkins….jeeeh.
Imagine if we kept Doud Drabek, Fred McGriff, WIllie Mcgee, Jay Buhner, etc?
Maybe people in the AL West or AL Central would love to have their problems, but their pitching problem is going to be exploited in the AL East. The AL East this year is going to be tough and without solid pitching, it’s going to be extremely tough. Not sure if their powerful offense is enough to disguise their lack of pitching, so it’s going to be interesting. This all gets thrown out the door, obviously, if they go out and get another strong LHP
All depends on who’s better between the Rays and Yankees. Rotation- Easily the Rays, Bullpen- Yankees, Lineup- Yankees
Someone mentioned that Benoit + Soriano blew a total of 6 saves combined last year. Farnsworth and Howell blew a total of 11 saves combined last year. Now of course I can’t find out how many of those games each won and lost for their team, but still a 5 game difference is huge, especially in that division.
I say Red Sox win it with about 95 wins, Yankees come in 2nd with 90, Rays fall short with 85. But hey, we all know anything can happen.
I can definitely see what you’re saying. What I was trying to get at, and I may not have been very clear with it, but the Orioles have a very good line up this year, and if they get Vlad, they’re going to be very powerful. The Rays line up, while not what it was last year, is still going to score a lot of runs. And the Sox, obviously, have an outstanding line up. Basically – there are better divisions to be in with a lack of starting pitching. Either the Yankees are going to win games 9-8, or they’re going to let their starters go 6 and let the bullpen shut down the other teams, which would give them a bullpen full of wet noodles come August.
Who has a better rotation than the Yankees in the AL East besides Boston? People are giving Tampa’s rotation too much credit. They’re still very young. If you’ve got one game you’ve got to win, who do you choose from Sabathia or Price? Are Nieman, Shields, and Davis that impressive? Yes they’re young but does that make them better than who the Yankees will run out there? Hellickson is a stud prospect, but will he dominate after the hitters in the AL East see him a few times? Maybe he’s the next Tim Lincecum, but I think assuming the Rays rotation is that much better than NY’s is foolish. I think NY can have second best rotation in that division, and with their offense they should be fine. BAL and TOR are improved somewhat but it’s still a three dog race, and just because the Yankees don’t have as good a rotation as they did last year doesn’t mean they have a “lack of pitching”.
I don’t think you are giving that Rays rotation enough credit there. They are really really good. Young, true, but very talented. That being said, I think that the Yankees rotation woes are a tad bit overstated. CC and Hughes are solid at the top. If Hughes doesn’t hit a wall after so many innings last year (I don’t think he will hit said wall actually), and Burnett can be decent, then you are already ahead of nearly all teams in the majors. Plus, I am betting that Nova is going to be good. I have heard too many good things about him. Maybe not a world beater, but he can hold down the fourth slot (although he would be better as a #5). The only really weak spot is that #5 starter. You can get around that with an offense like their’s. I think it is just going to be another dogfight this year (as always) in the AL East. And the Yankee rotation will be good enough for them. The playoffs is more likely where it will hurt them.
Dude. Look at their staff.
You’ve got CC. True ace, fantastic pitcher, elite, etc.
Then you’ve got Hughes, who can’t throw past 85 innings without blowing up (ERA through 82.1 IP – 3.17. From 82.2 – End of season – 5.07 ERA).
Then you’ve got Burnett, the biggest head case since Mark Wohlers.
Then you’ve got two guys who haven’t thrown for 150 IP since…well Nova never and Mitre not since like 2004. Who is going to eat up those extra 100+ innings?
Their pitching is a very, very big concern.
Nova pitched 182 innings last year.
The yanks pitching problems are overstated through the media… They clearly don’t have one of the better staffs in 2011 but they have some of the best pitching depth in the majors with their farm system.
The way I see it is if they can stay compeititve by the deadline, they can trade for a pitcher and still be a powerhouse. Their lineup is still silly good and will definitely keep them competive.
I think you are being overly critical of Hughes. He’s in the same situation as any other 23 yo starter. The 176 IP he pitched last year were the most he ever pitched since 2006 when he threw 146 IP. Clearly, he hit a wall last year. Still, after July 4 you can attribute most of his high ERA to 4 games, 3 of which were vs Toronto who just seemed to own him all season long.
I agree with what you said about the playoffs. If they can make it to the deadline and get a guy they can count on to start games in the playoffs (if they make it) they’ll be in a good position to make a run. But the current rotation in the playoffs doesn’t bode well for them.
I’m sorry, WHAT?!?!
They ABSOLUTELY have a lack of pitching! Outside of Pettitte last year, the Yankees SP combined for a 4.51 ERA.
The Sox had a 4.17, the Rays had a 3.99, the Jays had a 4.30, and the O’s had a 4.67. Even WITH Pettitte last year, the Yankees had the 4th worst starting pitching staff in the AL East (4.35 ERA). And now you lose Pettitte and think you’re going to suddenly jump two spots?? Dude. Dream on man. That’s ridiculous.
And where did those fantastic ERA’s get those teams? The Yankees played for the pennant.
Well I guess the Giants 3.54 SP ERA won them the World Series.
But go ahead and be satisfied with “playing for the pennant” because you got smoked by Texas.
You sound like a Pirates fan. Good job making the ALCS, most Yankee fans are disappointed without a WS championship, and the Yankees have done nothing this offseason to better their chances of winning one.
As a matter of fact, I am a Pirates fan. And by your name and the content of your postings, I will assume you’re a Red Sox fan, still bitter about missing the playoffs last year.
Why would any Sox fan be bitter after the offseason we just had?
This is the most excited I’ve been for a baseball season to start since 2004.
Hey, I’d be excited too an over paid lackey named John Lackey and an overrated Bucholz and an over exposed Dice-Walk and an over-the-hill Wakefield not to mention an overused Beckett. Oh, nice bull pen, BTW. Did Paplebon call Mark Wohlers yet about how to resurrect his career after a play off collapse? Yeah, I’d be excited about that too. With the exception of Lester, I am pretty sure NY can hit every single one of your starters, and Daniel Bard is always a meat ball away from blowing a lead (nice, straight fast ball there fella). Have fun with winning the World Series in January. .
Wakefield is a long reliever and won’t be in the rotation bearing an injury. Buchholz overrated? How so.
I do think people give him too much credit for his stats last year. His innings total was very low, but he still had a heck of a year and he’s got a great future ahead, just like Hughes. I don’t think it would be “stupid” of me or you to say Beckett is overrated because I think he is.
Face it though, Red Sox rotation > Yankees rotation by a lot.
The Sox are better than the Yanks on paper right now thats a given, but games are not won on paper. Last MLB network picked the White Sox and Red Sox to win and what happened. There is alot of parity in the east. What really burns me is the fact that there are only 4 teams in the west and 5 in the east. The western teams have a 5% better chance of making the playoffs before you even throw one pitch.
“There is alot of parity in the east. What really burns me is the fact that there are only 4 teams in the west and 5 in the east”
Actually it should bum fans/teams of the NL Central more. They have 6 teams (technically 5 since the Pirates, well….ahem okay you get my point)
I think bucholz is overrated because he is inconsistent and had a big year last year, but i can’t see him being a “force” in that rotation. Honestly, all I can say about the Red Sox rotation is this: The Phillies had the best rotation in baseball in the playoffs last year. They got beat by a team that out played them and had a better bullpen. Based on what I’ve seen with October baseball the past 20 years, it’s the team with the string bullpen that you really have to think about in a short series. So the yanks are very, very bottom heavy with their pen now, but all they need is 5+ 3 Runs from their 4 and 5 and they will be a big time team. The red sox have bigger long term problems because their bullpen has more holes it it than a pound of swiss cheese. You know, I am picking NY to win the division. Screw Boston.
my goodness you are angry
yes they did not play for the pennant but your agruement is about who has the better staff. the yanks starting pitching maybe the 3rd best in the division, outside of CC they have question marks everywhere. while the rays are young, they did prove last year that they are very capable of playing in the best division and winning it.
But the Best Bullpen in the AL. The Angels won in 2002 with a worse starting rotation and a lights out bullpen. I’ll take that pen over any in MLB right now.
I’d rather make the playoffs with a team ERA of 4.51 than not make the playoffs with a team ERA of 4.17… so please, your logic is a bit flawed…
No one is saying the yanks have a stellar rotation… they don’t… but is it good enough to stay competitive… of course it is…
Dude. Please. The Sox missed the playoffs because of injuries last year, not SP.
You’re missing the point… Plus i think you are vastly over-valuing your staff
Lester is lights out. Flat out great pitcher
Bucholtz is due for some correction this year… his BABIP was way too low to sustain.. but he’s still solid
Lackey, Beckett and Matsuzaka are all over the place… the could be good… they could suck… who knows.. they are that Inconsistent…
Wakefield has been no good for quite some time.
So stop acting like you have the best staff in the MLB.. its almost as variable as the yanks…
Bahahaha. Almost as variable as the Yankees pitching?!?! That’s a JOKE!
Oh my God. I’m done here.
You were done in September.
I wouldn’t go that far. Red Sox pitching does have it’s ?’s at the end, but by far and away the Yankees rotation has much more ?’s
I couldn’t agree with you more that the Yankees have waaaaaaay more question marks. I just hate constantly hearing how Lackey, Beckett and Matsuzaka are all going do DEFINITELY have come back years… Truth is, that’s pretty variable, esp with Lackey and Beckett on the wrong side of 30.. But the yanks definitely have way more question marks for 2011 in their staff! I just don’t know if the margin is that large… i really depends on performance from Nova & whomever they choose for their #5… If they can be league average, I’d be happy with it…
The biggest question mark for Boston (I hate you) is that they have a DREADFUL bullpen. Their starters NEED to pitch great to win. They have no closer (or someone who thinks he can still close). Everyone is forgetting that the Yankees have 6 bullpen arms that can have a stretch in the season (and maybe even in Oct) that could make ball games 6 innings. So, yeah, we can have a “Nova” with innings limits but he’d only need to pitch 5-6 innings out there. I like the way this team is constructed. The Yanks bullpen is head-and-shoulders above the Red Sox, hands down. No dispute.
It’s not dreadful, but they lack a solid lefty. Matter of fact, on the 40 man roster, the Red Sox only have 3 total left handed pitchers. Lester, Oki and Felix Doubront (not sure if he’s on the 25 man roster)
If Damaso Marte comes back, the Yankees would have 3 lefties in the bullpen and 3 very effective lefties (against left hadned batters only that is)
Oki does not fare well against lefties. Compared to righties yes but lefties hit him very good
The Red Sox bullpen is good, but it’s no where near as good as the Yankees bullpen.
Agreed.
Yes that’s true, but the Yanks make the playoffs most of the time regardless of injuries, they are part of the game. If the Sox had pitched better last year they would have made the playoffs.
a 4.50 ERA thru 6 innings means that the Yankees only gave up 3 runs going into the 7th inning. chances are very likely the Yanks win that game damned near every time! i just don’t see our present rotation THAT big a problem.
Are you seriously suggesting Boston and New York have better rotations than the Rays? I’m sorry, but that’s the most ignorant post I’ve ever seen. You’re right about someone wanting CC over Price in a huge game, but that’s about it other than that.
Boston’s rotation has all the potential in the world to be better than Tampa’s, but at the end of the day, I think (and I think most people as well) I’d rather have Tampa’s. And if you try and tell me that any combination of CC/Hughes/Pettite/Nova/Garcia/Colon/Mirtre is better than Tampa’s Price/Shields/Niemann/Davis/Hellickson, then you are crazy.
No good sir. Ignorance is not fully reading a post and then commenting on it. I know the Red Sox have the best rotation in the AL East, probably the entire AL. I was merely trying to point out that assuming the Rays rotation will be better than the Yankees would be premature seeing as though a) many of their starters are unproven and b) we still don’t know what the Yankees’ rotation will be. SoxFan0928 pretty much made my point for me by pointing out that although the Yankees’ team ERA was near the worst in the AL East last year, they were still in the AL Championship.
Blind homerism by Kickme.
You can’t argue with stupid, as Colin Cowherd says.
Quoting Colin Cowherd is like farting in bed and holding your own head under the covers then blaming it on the dog. I hate that guy.
So anyone who says Boston’s rotation is better than Tampa’s is crazy?
Guess I’m crazy.
Me too! Lester-Price, Push
Buchholz over Shields
Beckett over Nieman
Lackey over Davis
DiceK and Hellickson, No one knows!
Me too! Lester-Price, Push (agree)
Buchholz over Shields (agree)
Beckett over Nieman (depends on if Beckett is healthy and not giving up 3 hrs a game)
Lackey over Davis (Lackey has experience and that’s all)
DiceK and Hellickson, No one knows! (true but if I had to guess…..Hellboy)
NY owns Beckett and Lackey now. Eh, the red sox are going to win 78 games and Gonzalez will hit 19 HRs and .227. Crawford will weigh 279 pounds and Varitek will get a sex change to be a man…OH SNAP. Did I? Yep. I did. To H*E*L*L with the red sox! This year is gonna be fun.
I would take Boston, Toronto, or TB’s rotation before NY’s.
The Sox and the Rays pitching is better than the Yanks at this point, but the Yanks offense is better than all of them.
CC > Romero
Hughes = Morrow
Cecil > Burnett
Drabek = Nova (Meaning who the heck knows, both too young)
Litsch > ???
Bullpen- Yankees
Lineup- Yankees
I’d be stunned if the Blue Jays finish ahead of the Yankees. This does not mean though that, 1- I’m saying the Blue Jays aren’t a good team, and 2- It CAN’T happen.
With all do respect.. and this is coming from a Jays fan who knows fully that the yankees will finish ahead of them this year, I have to argue 2 points..
Hughes=Morrow…. as good as Hughes is, his ceiling is a good #3 pitcher, where as Morrow, with his arm and filthyness, is bonafide ace, if he can build off last year he is much better than Hughes..
you can say, well Morrow is an unknown, who knows if he will continue.. well I can say the same about Hughes, but moving forward I would take Morrow over Hughes..
Drabek= Nova… Again same situation, both are relatively unknowns, but if they both reach their potential.. Drabek is a front of the line starter where as Nova is back end starter. .
That being said, the Yanks had off years from Tex, Arod, Jeter and the DH spot… and still finished with 95 wins last year.. I have no doubt the yankees will overcome their pitching deficiencies…
Hughes and Morrow have had almost identical numbers (In innings and ERA).
Innings
Hughes- 369
Morrow- 344
ERA
Hughes- 4.20
Morrow- 4.19
Although Hughes has a higher ERA+ somehow, 105 to 101
WHIP
Hughes- 1.26
Morrow- 1.43
Hughes gives up over a HR an inning, but Morrow walks way too many batters (although he strikes out more than Hughes too).
SO/BB ratio
Hughes- 2.48
Morrow- 1.97
With the exception of 2 more strikeouts per 9 innings and an ERA of 0.01 difference, I don’t see how Morrow > Hughes.
Both have much better numbers out of the pen than as a starter. And while they are both still young, Hughes is 2 years younger.
Let’s just see how things go, for now I’m saying equal.
So HUghes is no better than a #3 (even though most experts disagree) but Morrow, who has been extremely inconsistent in his career (mostly due to health and wildness) is a bonafide stud based solely off of 2010? Yeah…nooooooooo homerism there.
Why would the Padres trade Leblanc or Richard?
Because they exist solely as a farm system for the NY Yankees. Duh!
Why would they trade anyone? In hopes of improving their team. I guarantee you that if Cashman calls and offers Montero and a top pitching prospect, SD would listen. Not sure if any SD fans noticed, but LeBlanc was terrible down the stretch last year. And before that, he was only good at home. His home/road splits were terrible. Now might be the only time that he’ll have trade value.
Ugh, please stop. Even as an avid Yankee hater, Montero isn’t getting offered for anyone in San Diego.
Montero a top pitching prospect for LeBlanc = huge win for San Diego.
I agree, but I felt the need to open the eyes of the blind that it is indeed possible that SD would perhaps consider trading one of their young pitching “studs” in Leblanc or Richard if the price were right.
Leblanc is a 5th starter. Richards is a 3rd/4th on most rotations. My guess is the padres would listen to what the yankees have to say and certainly would have to trade either if Montero were made available. The Padres are far weaker at catching than any other spot, in terms of where their farm system and current depth is.
Does anyone seriously believe that offer would ever happen?
Yeah but Cashman isn’t going to do that, so….
Let’s first acknowledge two things. #1 is Cashman didn’t write this article and he’s not being quoted in being interested in either LeBlanc or Richard. #2 is Cashman is looking for impact pitchers, not back end starters because we have enough vets who can do that and a couple of prospects who could be no worse than #4 or #5 types (at worse, Phelps, Noesi, etc).
LeBlanc is a soft tossing pitcher with a 4.80 FIP pitching in an extreme pitchers park.
Richard is a little bit better, but not much. In the AL there’s no reason to expect more than a 4.20 FIP.
Pads are not selling and the Yanks would not be offering Montero or a top pitching prospect for either of those two.
Simple…. they won’t.
In 2012 Betances, Kelly, Brackman and Simon Castro could join Mat Latos and the lefty they don’t trade in the rotation. Joba pitching the 7th in Petco. Not a bad haul…
Please, please, please take Kazmir. Us Angel fans need a hug right now and that would do the trick.
I doubt the new pitching coach would want that many headcases. That being said, if he looks good in ST and the ANgels want nothing in return (non top 25 prospect) then the Yanks might consider.
You Angel fans need a hug? You guys got a complete steal for Dan Haren and still got to keep the #1 prospect in baseball. Sounds like a good start to me.
You Angel fans need a hug? You guys got a complete steal in the Dan Haren trade, and still got to keep the #1 prospect in the game. Sounds like a good start to me, go hug each other instead. Be thankful the trade made by the DBacks played in your favor.
I’m no expert, but when 2/5 or more of your games will be pitched by question marks you have issues.
Vazquez and Burnett were ?’s last year and in replace of Pettitte’s injury they went with Moesely, Nova and Mitre, and the Yankees still won 95 games, 2nd best in the AL.
Their amazing lineup and very good bullpen could possibly bail them out.
And don’t forget some poor performances in 2009. Wang when he started was awful (he had an ERA over 9), Burnett and Pettitte were pretty good, Joba was misused, Mitre sucked. Their team rotation ERA that year was 4.48 but their team ERA was 4.26.
I’m not saying there isn’t a cause for concern, but people shouldn’t just assume they have no chance.
It’s going to be interesting to see how much Girardi depends on that bullpen. It’s a stout bullpen, for sure. But it’s going to be very interesting to see if he goes to the well too much too early and has a pen full of wet noodles by August.
Also – Rivera’s IP have decreased every year since 2004. When he pitches, he’s brilliant, there’s no debating that, but how many outings can you expect from him this year?
Girardi is a very good bullpen manager. And no for those who read this I’m not referring to players he brings in/takes out. I’m referring to how he uses them. He knows when guys need their rest. Torre was not good at that at all.
Well the past couple of years, he’s had a solid rotation, so his starters were getting deep into games. I’m sure he’ll do fine, but it would be easy to overuse a bullpen like that early on.
If he doesn’t run the bullpen like Torre did, they will do fine
That’s why they have Soriano. I expect him to get probably 10-15 saves this year.
yanks desperately need too add a left-handed arm to contend against the stacked sox left-handed heavy lineup.
Dempster from the Cubs –
I didn’t know he was ambidextrous. Last time I checked he was a right handed pitcher.
I really thought Dempster was a righty…
I don’t understand why the Yanks don’t ask the AAAA Pirates for some pitching. The Pirates want to move Maholm, Doumit, and anyone they can get prospects for. Get both Maholm and Doumit and flip Doumit to another team for another pitcher.
I’m sure the pirates would listen. That Tabata trade seems to have worked out for them so far.
Burress and Kartsens would probably be available too. They are always good for 5-6 innings.
Because they aren’t better than what we have already?
Wow. Usually the Yanks lead the division in offseason moves, but by their standards, they’ve done very little and stood still. Every team in the division has gotten arguably better.
Not Tampa.
I will say this, The Yanks are got killed in the Media this winter, mostly for stuff completly out of thier control. (Except for the DJ negotiations) It’s not Cashman’s fault that during the 2010 season the 2011 FA market dried up due to extensions See (Halladay, Beckett, Lilly)
Cliff Lee Wasn’t comming to NY on a 10 year 300 Mill Contract.. and Andy decided to Hang it up. One tjing Cashman shold be getting cred for is developing 5-6 good young arms in his sytem.. All of which will be in the majors within the next 6-18 months… Yanks may have to take a step back this year, let a few of the contracts run out (Posada, Marte, and if there is a god Soriano will opts out). And let the young arms develop. The Farm System is Deep… much deeper than the Yanks get credit for…
I wonder if Odalis Perez would consider a comeback. The only reason why he stopped playing is because he ended up signing a crappy minor league contract with the NATS and oped out.
I think he is playing in Japan this year.
You guys could get Kazmir for nothing consider it pleeease
You guys could get Kazmir for nothing consider it pleeease
Oliver Perez for a bag of balls? please please please
Wow the yankees are bullheaded and arrogant. They thought they could get Felix, now they think they’ll get guys like Gio, Clayton? Seriously competing teams, even rebuilding teams will not trade away great to you just cause your the yankees.
REDSOX will win 100 hahaha
YANKS will trade Montero for Kazmir lol.
GTFO!!!!
An untested rookie for a proven major leaguer? Yankees are going to have to cough up more than that.
A proven major leaguer who has been one of the worst in all of baseball in the past couple of years
Hopefully the ChiSox blow chunks in April and May. Then Cashman needs to meet up with Kenny Williams. Feed him the same drinks he fed him the night of the Swisher trade and leave with John Danks in tow. Danks is arbitration eligible this year and next so his price is only going up and he has been reluctant to sign an extension so far.
Colon looked like crap in the 2008 AAA playoffs. I can’t look at him as a serious option for a major league rotation spot.
This is a TERRIBLE bargaining position for the Yankees. Here is how I rank the pitchers mentioned and what they would command via trade. ALL would be an overpay.
Saunders (5) – probably the weakest of the group and would command the least return.
Kazmir (4) – skills are on the decline but potential and past success remain. Due to salary, he wouldn’t command as much as the name would indicate.
LeBlanc (3) – Had somewhat of a breakout year and proved to be a usable starter for the Pads. He’s young and he’s cheap so return would have to be solid.
Richard (2) – Broke out as a reliable rotation arm capable of having outstanding shutdown perfeormances. He’s young, cheap and talented. He would command a very considerable haul. He’s arguably the best among this group.
Gonzalez (1) – Some may consider Richard as the best of this crop but I would hedge my bets toward this young flame thrower. Gonzalez has top of the rotation potential and his age and recent success would require a lions return to gain his services.
I don’t think the yankees would be wise to deal this late into the offseason as teams simply have incredible bargaining power that would result in a less than ideal trade for the bronx bombers. I think the yankees can get a better return at the all star break as there will be more talent to be had, although, there will also be more bidders to fend off. At least, by then, they will realize the extent of their problem.
To BNS:
I don’t mean to be an @ss, but I’d much rather prefer if writers on this site stuck to reporting and perhaps just giving additional facts like stats and so forth. I’m specifically referring to: “Yankees fans may be frustrated that the front office did not sign Cliff Lee or retain Pettitte, but their club is still strong.”
Find a different site then. I for one appreciate hearing their opinions. As long as one is able to discriminate fact from opinion, they should not have too much trouble determining or formulating their own views.
Well I don’t recall them ever stating their opinion before in a post that was meant to report facts. Also, “find a different site”? What’s the rudeness for?
Yeah, what’s with the rudeness? And why did you deliberately trip Scottie Pippen back in the day? I will never forgive you for that.
I have no problem with the post. However, it’s clear that the majority on here are acting as if it’s Cashman who is considering these trade possibilities as if they are based off of something he said or has spoken to an “inside source”. Yeah, like Cashman is counting on Joe Saunders to save the day.
How about Blanton and JOhn Mayberry for Swisher straight up.
Nope. Blanton is worth nada. Or at least not a bat like Swisher or a top prospect.
I hear Pedro has been throwing down in the islands…. Can you imagine…
The Rays starting pitching looks to be better than the Sox. I would put Hellickson much better than the Sox 3, 4 , or 5 starter. Look at his numbers last year they are better than Buchholz of three years ago.
“Look at his numbers last year” 10 games and 36 innings. WAY too small a sample size to already compare him to other pitchers.
the kid has dominated his entire way to the bigs, theres no reason to assume he isn’t going to be as awesome as everyone has projected.
I didn’t say he wasn’t going to. I said he’s unproven as of right now and it’s not exactly “fair” to already compare him to other experienced players and say who is better and who is worse.
Maybe he will be better, maybe he won’t.
Plus look at his minor league numbers are better than Buckholz!
Frustrating offseason. What a waste of $200M when you know you aren’t going to win a championship.
ca we just give you kazmir, like you don’t have to give up anything?
sincerely,
every angels fan
Here is my FANTASY list for NYY fans
King Felix (would be nice, but they have zero reason to move him)
David Price (never happening)
Josh Johnson (probably not, but Florida, has been known for being crazy)
Johan Santana (hmmm, clear Mets payroll and get s Lefty ace…)
Matt Garza (in middle of year once Cubs get knocked around…)
Barry Zito (how desperate are the Yanks?)
Derek Lowe / Jair Juriens (Braves have a wealth of pitching, I know…not lefties)
Carlos Zambrano (ummm no thanks)
FA’s in 2011
Grienke or Cain
FA’s in 2012
Gavin Floyd
Ervin Santana
Greinke and Cain aren’t FA until after the 2012 season.
The Jay will finish 4th or 5th this year. I think they have the worst team in the east.
Orioles.
The Yanks best bet is too wait until mid-season and hope to pick up a pitcher like Carpenter or Jackson if their teams are out of it.
Dude you have no clue on the Yanks farm system. They have been ranked anywhere from #5 to #9 by most. They have 4 players just ranked in mlb’s top 53.
You really need to do your homework.
Wade LaBlanc would absolutely get tattooed away from Petco park and the NL West, especially going to the AL East. Check out his home/away splits, they are ridiculous.
at age 19
I would rather them hold on to the prospects and get Santana for nothing. All of these options are good pitchers but are not worth the prospects needed for the trade. If they want to trade prospects, go all in and get Felix or something along those lines.
They must find a way to get a package that includes both Haren and Kazmir from the Angels, sounds crazy and impossible, but making that, they really return to the top.
I don’t think anybody wants Kazmir at this point!
that’s probably true, but he shine before in the east, also he still young
Gio Gonzalez would be nice.