Not long after the Yankees agreed to sign Rafael Soriano, we heard that the deal was driven more by ownership and not by GM Brian Cashman and his baseball operations staff. SI.com's Jon Heyman reports today that Cashman still has the "full backing" of the Steinbrenner family, a report echoed by ESPN's Buster Olney (Twitter links). Heyman adds (via Twitter) that while Cashman preferred to keep the team's first round draft choice, he made no attempt to "body block" the deal with Soriano and relented because he's a "team man."
Bill Madden and Roger Rubin of The New York Daily News reported this morning that ownership was "bothered by Cashman's blueprint," specifically with regards to Joba Chamberlain opening the season as Mariano Rivera's primary setup man. Soriano addresses that issue and then some, and the team is said to be willing to move Chamberlain in a package for a "viable starter."
Cashman has been the Yankees' GM since 1998, though he is not under contract beyond the 2011 season. His last three contracts have all been for three guaranteed years according to Cot's.
When we have to be told that somebody has the full backing of their boss, it’s usually not true.
Agreed.
Yeah usually the “full backing” statement is followed by the “relieved of duties” speech. However, seeing as how his contract ends at the end of this season he might just decide not to come back at all.
Life would be so much better if they let him make the choices. He certainly hasn’t been perfect, but the Giambi, Sheffield, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown and Arod extension were all from the Boss and Sons.
“Bill Madden and Roger Rubin of The New York Daily News reported this morning that ownership was “bothered by Cashman’s blueprint,” specifically with regards to Joba Chamberlain opening the season as Mariano Rivera’s primary setup man.”
Solution: grossly overpay for one. Wait what? Hank stop worrying about making a splash and let Cashman make the intelligent decisions. Your fans aren’t losing sleep at night because you don’t have a designated 8th inning guy.
The implication that we can draw from Joba being part of a package for a viable starter which is that Joba is not a viable starter. Didn’t take CSI:NY to figure that one out.
I’d expect him to get a second shot to put it all together somewhere else, if the Yankees would correctly value him. They have bungled this whole situation so poorly.
Swap him for Paul Maholm maybe?
i think he would look good in a Cardinal uni, Duncan can probably turn him into a cy young caliber pitcher in no time. not much of a groundballer though so he may not fit their usual pitching staff
Duncan is a genius. As a Brewer fan, I hate his guts, but they guy could probably get me Cy Young votes if the Cards would give me a chance. On a sidenote, how in the world did Chris and Shelly not end up as pitchers?
Why even have a GM? Hank should just bust out his skills for all of baseball to admire. I think the Yankees will have a tough season, and a cosmetic shake up isn’t that far in the future.
they’re going to have to make some VERY hard decisions soon, they’ll still roll out a very good team but look at the ages of Pettite(if he returns), Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Arod, Burnett, Marte….all age 34 and over.
Pettitte probably won’t pitch in 2011, and Marte is injured and will most likely miss the season. Posada is entering the final year of his contract and I am hoping he gracefully retires and makes way for Montero. The main concerns out of that group you posted are the hideous A-Rod contract, and the slightly less hideous but still really ugly contracts for Jeter and Burnett.
If Pettitte comes back it’s only for 1 year. Rivera is still at the top of his game and is only signed for 2 more. Posada will hopefully retire. If he does come back it would be because he was productive in 2011 and I’m sure it would be as a 1 year deal back at the DH spote. Burnett’s issues aren’tage related. He’s still throwing in the 93-96 range last year. If he can use that change he’s been working on and get his head on right they might be able to salvage a #3 or #4 performance for the next 3 years. Marte is a FA at the end of this season and probably won’t even pitch. The two that concern us all are Jeter and Arod. IMO, Jeter much more than Arod.
Money doesn’t matter as much to the Yanks. My issue is Montero and whatever catcher that might come up and push him to being a DH eventually. If Montero proves to be the real thing and Arod’s defense deteoriorates to the point where he needs to DH then Montero would probably become the odd man out. IMO, if Montero shows he’s the real deal then I’d rather keep the younger Montero @ DH than a declining Arod. We’ll see. Thanks Hank, Hal and Randy. You guys should stick to the bean counting.
And as a GM isn’t being publicly overruled a straight up slap in the face? No matter what kind of positive spin Hank tries to put on it he clearly didn’t have faith in the decision his GM was making and left Cashman with egg on his face.
Totally agree. If I was Cashman, I’d walk. Its not like this will be the end of the line for his career, and if you want your integrity, you’ve got to draw the line.
If you were Cashman, you would be crazy to walk. You get paid huge money to have almost unlimited payroll at your disposal and you can just blame meddlesome owners if you don’t win the WS every year. How does it get easier than that?
I’ve heard that Cashman is pretty well respected among his peers as a smart baseball man. It’s easy to bash him as a fan and outsider but this situation with the current owners is a small comparison to what he has dealt with forever. Imagine any other GM that has a team with two almost diametrically opposed factions. One based in the NY offices and one based in Tampa. He has Randy Levine, a boss yes man, over his shoulder in NY who reported back to the Boss, Sons and a host of “advisers” including Gene Michael who put together the mid 90’s teams, Reggie Jackson, Tino Martinez and others. The man was a GM for over 8 years or so before he was even in control of his own drafting and international FA signings. He is far from the best, but d@mn if it he doesn’t work under conditions probably no other GM has to indure.
I’m sure that despite the money and acclaim there has got to be a part of him that wants to eventually go somewhere else and prove himself as being a smart and capable GM who can construct a winning team with a smaller budget. I’m not talking Marlins or Padres small, but a team that’s willing to spend 80-125mil. Can you imagine what he could do if he could rebuild a team and trade veteran stars for prospects because winning a WS every year wasn’t the mandate?
I’d love to see what Cashman could do as Seattle’s GM. $100m payroll to play with and no pressure to perform in the weakest division in baseball. That would be interesting to see.
I understand the issues with meddlesome owners but I still think that if a GM that has almost unlimited funds to regularly sign any free agent he wants (except Lee) can’t win the WS 50% of the time, he isn’t going to fair very well under tougher circumstances.
Can’t the same be said about Epstein (who I think is a fine GM by the way) ?
Absolutely. Even as a RSox fan I think that Theo is hugely over rated. I think the RSox are kind of polar opposites of the Yankees in that they win more games because their owners are involved (think Curt Schilling). I think the next 5 years or so will show whether Theo lives up to the hype.
Usually you hear a ton of questions on how Cashman, Epstein etc. would do as the GM of a small market team. Well a question that Isn’t often asked is how would the GM of a small market team do as the GM of a large market team? Some say most small market GM’s would be successful easily in a large market
Want a GM example of how untrue that is? Omar Minaya, some said he was an average GM, he became GM of the Mets, and he was a HORRIBLE GM. I think Mainaya was arguably one of hte worst GM’s in baseball during his tenure with the Mets.
Can’t the same be said about Epstein (who I think is a fine GM by the way) ?
Yeah but you can’t really blame the GM for what a team does or doesn’t do in the post-season. From 2001-2010 the Yanks have won an avg of 97 wins per season including 4 100+ win seasons. Included in that are 7 AL East titles. That “only” includes 3 WS appearances where we went 1-2. I place that blame on the players and not the GM. If a team is capable of dominating a tough (most would say toughest) division in baseball over the last decade then the GM did their job. He can’t pitch, hit or perform in the “clutch”. In terms of dollars spent = performance his teams have performed excellently. What they beyond that in short 5-7 game series is up to the manager and players.
If a Yankee hater said the Yanks have chocked in the playoffs in the last decade I would have to agree.
I hear what you are saying about the Yankees players choking in the playoffs and it not being the GM’s fault but, to me, Bob Watson gets a ton of the credit for the ’98, ’99, ’00 WS titles and the farther you get away from his era and the players he signed, the more the Yankees choked in the playoffs. Coincidence? I’m not so sure.
Yes, the Yankees won a ton of games from 2001 to 2010 but to only win 1 WS in that time is unfathomable given the Yankees huge payroll advantage. If the Yankees don’t win a bunch more WS in a relatively short time period I would have to say Cashman is a bust. In terms of dollars spent = winning championships in the last 10 years his record is miserable. Ship him to the Mariners and lets see how good he really is!
My point is, Cashman is already wealthy (set for life), and he really should demand control or walk. He will end up with either complete control of the Yanks or of a mid- to large market team in a few years, if he does so. My guess is that Hank and Hal will get on their knees and Brian will rule, which would be best for everyone.
I could be wrong, but it worked for Theo. I’m not extolling his skills, but character-wise it was the smart move. At least he had the guts to say “I won’t be part of this,” and “if I come back, I get complete autonomy.” Since his return, Larry Lucchino has not been meddling in player affairs/deals any more. And Henry and Werner have limited themselves to decisions on payroll issues.
IMHO, Cashman is the best overall GM in baseball. He’s done an incredible job of managing the current demand to win and the foresighted desire for a strong talent pool on the farm. He deserves autonomy and his words need to be the team gospel. The minute your boss starts making your words meaningless, its time to seek other employment.
The best GM in baseball? Really? He has a huge payroll advantage over every other team and the “mystique and aura” of the Yankees to entice the best players to sign with his team and his team has only won 1 World Series in the last 10 years. I guess I would expect better from someone who has such a huge competitive advantage.
While I see your point about demanding autonomy, may I suggest that some people’s main driving force is winning. While Cashman might have more power if he went elsewhere, I don’t know that he would feel as confident about winning if he were to manage, say, the Orioles or the Mariners. I would love to see him try and I would be the first to admit I was wrong if he were to win the WS with either of those teams. Heck, if he is that good, he should be able to win with the Pirates!
Certainly valid points, Dave. Look at it this way, and tell me if you disagree.
Along with the “mystique and aura” in his favor, the perennial winning of the team keeps his draft choices more remote. Still, he’s managed to build a top 10 farm system, while repeatedly finishing at/near the top of his division every year. I think this can only be attributable to having built a very good talent evaluation system, which is something that a GM does have direct control over. I believe that he also has built a world-class training organization, enabling the farm hands to make maximum progress toward becoming MLB-ready prospects.
GM’s don’t win or lose WSC’s. The on-field team and manager does that. GM’s just build the components for success for now and for the future. He can only provide the building blocks that the team works with. If they are repeatedly at the top end of the division, that’s about all any GM could do. I’d love to see him do that with a smaller market team, like the Mariners, and I bet he could. But I’d also be happy to see Hal and Hank hand him back the reigns, too, because that will at least make our main competitor stable, rational and predictable. I think the family throws too many wildcards and emotions into the baseball equation.
While Cashman has that “mystique” and huge amounts of money in his favor, he also has unbelievable pressure. A two-day slump and people are asking questions. A four-day slump and people are asking what he is doing to right the ship. And as YanksFan pointed out, these people are not just fans. Its both Randy Levine and the family down in Tampa that are clamoring at his heals. Cashman has been a calm, level-headed “baseball-man” presence that has kept the team on its proper and best course.
I see your point about his “legacy,” i.e., winning. But what would his legacy be if he brought a “World Series contender” team to the Mariners within 5 seasons of taking over? What if the Mariners had a top 5 farm system after 5 seasons? You’d be looking at a decade of winning baseball up there. That would be some legacy to leave behind.
Steve, let me give you my outlook and see what you think.
The Yankees being near or at the bottom of the draft board on a yearly basis does handicap them somewhat. Once again, the massive advantage that they have financially over other teams evens this out a lot. The Yankees NEVER have to adjust who they might pick because they don’t have enough cash in their budget to sign a prospect. They can offer enough to a draft choice that might have otherwise gone to college and instead get that player in their system 4 years earlier than a prospect who goes to school. They also have the resources that allow them to hire scouts to cover international areas that might not get as much attention from other team due to financial constraints and, of course, once the identify an international player, they have the means to sign that player even if another team is also pursuing him. The “mystique and aura” thing is, in my opinion, also a huge advantage in signing foreign players.
That brings us to the training organization. The Yankees have the money to hire the best minor league instructors, coaches, and scouts that money can buy. They potentially get their players into the Yankee system earlier than other teams and can use some of the best baseball people to teach their prospects the “Yankee way” at an early, more impressionable age. I don’t think that it hurts to roll some of the ex-Yankee “special instructors” into spring training every year to give the kids some pointers.
I believe that the financial advantage also extends into the regular season in several big ways. Once again, the Yankees can afford to hire and retain the best scouts available. They can also afford to hire more scouts. That’s has to help. While it is true that the players make the plays, it doesn’t hurt to know a pitcher’s tendencies or where a batter will probably hit a ball better than the other team does. Another in season advantage happens every year as teams fall out of contention. It seems like every year the Yanks pick up very good players off of non-contenders because the other teams just want to dump salary. Not only does this give the Yankees an advantage in the short run because they get the very good players for the rest of that season, it allows them the longer term advantage of not really having to give up high level prospects in exchange for the players they acquire. Add this to the fact that if/when those players leave after the season and sign with other clubs the Yankees have a chance of picking up draft choices in compensation. Add to those the draft choices that the Yankees get from players that they don’t resign that get picked up by other teams and you have enough draft options that the farm should be pretty well stocked most of the time. I think that just about covers why I don’t think Cashman should get huge credit for how good the Yankees farm is.
As for the GM not winning WSC’s, well I guess I partially agree. Kinda. Yes, the manager and players do the heavy lifting but it is the GM that assembles those people. The GM has to be smart enough to realize that winning the pennant is useless if you don’t win the WS. I don’t want a team that wins 110 games, I want a team that wins the World Series. If that team also happens to win 110 games, great. If not, I probably won’t be suffering too badly at the parade.
As for the family and everyone else being meddlesome… just tell them “scoreboard”. Better yet, win more WS and they will shut up. The problem with that is that I don’t think Cashman is good enough to win enough WS given the resources he has. I think the saying goes something like “To those whom a lot is given, a lot is expected”. I hope that I didn’t butcher that too much.
If he was able to produce a WS team with much lesser resources I think Cashman would be a lock for one of the all time best GMs. Until then, I will consider him pretty mediocre. Give $300+ million a year to some of the people who frequent this site and I bet they would win more WS than the Yankees have won lately. That’s the main reason that I would HATE for the Yankees to get rid of their current GM. As a Red Sox fan, I’ll take any advantage that I can get. I want Hal, Hank, Randy, Hal and Hank’s kids (if they have any) and anyone else that’s around meddling in the Yankee front office. The more distractions the better.
Go Sox!!!
Let me start by joining you in saying Go Sox!
I thoroughly agree that money and “aura” provides significant advantages in all realms of development for the Yanks. But I think I can substantiate that its not quite as impactful as you make it out to be.
Looking at the Yanks’ top 25 prospects, we can see some of the impact of what you have asserted. There are 7 out of the 25 who were signed out of HS. There are 8 International free agents. And there are 10 who were drafted out of college. The two 1st rounders on the list are both drafted out of college. Only 3 of the HS draftees were taken in the 3rd round or above, so there’s not much evidence that future first rounders are being bought out early by the big money the Yanks can wield. The international free agents are from standard places that all teams cover, such as Mexico, Venezuela, Cuba (defection) and the Dominican Republic, so there’s no evidence that the Yanks’ tentacles are significantly reaching into places that other teams just don’t cover.
The Yanks have mostly stuck close to the slot signing bonus regimen set up by the league. They have paid only 1 huge over-slot draftee bonus in Cashman’s reign. That was to Andrew Brackman for $3.55MM. They gave Slade Heathcock a mild overpay of $2.25MM for his bonus and Ian Kennedy got around $2MM. So there is no significant evidence that the Yanks are throwing money around like it was water to buy draftees. There is some evidence that the Yanks are throwing money at international free agents, like Gary Sanchez ($3MM), but so are other teams (the Reds, Pirates and Red Sox are right in there, doing the same).
It is true that the Yanks have greater financial resources than any other team, and I suppose that they could hire the best for their scouting and training staffs. But the Yanks are far from the best farm system. The low-budget Royals and Rays are the numbers 1 and 2 systems, demonstrating that virtually any team can afford to hire superlative staff in these departments.
As for in-season acquisitions, virtually all of the front-runners are able to make pick ups from non-contenders on salary dumps. The Red Sox have certainly done this, i.e. Billy Wagner the season before last. Do you really begrudge the Yankees as having an undue advantage because they scored Kerry Wood last year? I should think not.
There is some element of truth to your contentions. But its by no means the whole story, and I disagree that money and aura are overriding considerations. I do know that the Yanks have a better overall farm system than the BoSox do, and that they have consistently won more division titles, made more playoff appearances and generally played better baseball than we have over the last 10 years, our slight advantage in WSC’s won, notwithstanding. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. In any case, as we’ve both said, Go Sox.
Certainly valid points, Dave. Look at it this way, and tell me if you disagree.
Along with the “mystique and aura” in his favor, the perennial winning of the team keeps his draft choices more remote. Still, he’s managed to build a top 10 farm system, while repeatedly finishing at/near the top of his division every year. I think this can only be attributable to having built a very good talent evaluation system, which is something that a GM does have direct control over. I believe that he also has built a world-class training organization, enabling the farm hands to make maximum progress toward becoming MLB-ready prospects.
GM’s don’t win or lose WSC’s. The on-field team and manager does that. GM’s just build the components for success for now and for the future. He can only provide the building blocks that the team works with. If they are repeatedly at the top end of the division, that’s about all any GM could do. I’d love to see him do that with a smaller market team, like the Mariners, and I bet he could. But I’d also be happy to see Hal and Hank hand him back the reigns, too, because that will at least make our main competitor stable, rational and predictable. I think the family throws too many wildcards and emotions into the baseball equation.
While Cashman has that “mystique” and huge amounts of money in his favor, he also has unbelievable pressure. A two-day slump and people are asking questions. A four-day slump and people are asking what he is doing to right the ship. And as YanksFan pointed out, these people are not just fans. Its both Randy Levine and the family down in Tampa that are clamoring at his heals. Cashman has been a calm, level-headed “baseball-man” presence that has kept the team on its proper and best course.
I see your point about his “legacy,” i.e., winning. But what would his legacy be if he brought a “World Series contender” team to the Mariners within 5 seasons of taking over? What if the Mariners had a top 5 farm system after 5 seasons? You’d be looking at a decade of winning baseball up there. That would be some legacy to leave behind.
Certainly valid points, Dave. Look at it this way, and tell me if you disagree.
Along with the “mystique and aura” in his favor, the perennial winning of the team keeps his draft choices more remote. Still, he’s managed to build a top 10 farm system, while repeatedly finishing at/near the top of his division every year. I think this can only be attributable to having built a very good talent evaluation system, which is something that a GM does have direct control over. I believe that he also has built a world-class training organization, enabling the farm hands to make maximum progress toward becoming MLB-ready prospects.
GM’s don’t win or lose WSC’s. The on-field team and manager does that. GM’s just build the components for success for now and for the future. He can only provide the building blocks that the team works with. If they are repeatedly at the top end of the division, that’s about all any GM could do. I’d love to see him do that with a smaller market team, like the Mariners, and I bet he could. But I’d also be happy to see Hal and Hank hand him back the reigns, too, because that will at least make our main competitor stable, rational and predictable. I think the family throws too many wildcards and emotions into the baseball equation.
While Cashman has that “mystique” and huge amounts of money in his favor, he also has unbelievable pressure. A two-day slump and people are asking questions. A four-day slump and people are asking what he is doing to right the ship. And as YanksFan pointed out, these people are not just fans. Its both Randy Levine and the family down in Tampa that are clamoring at his heals. Cashman has been a calm, level-headed “baseball-man” presence that has kept the team on its proper and best course.
I see your point about his “legacy,” i.e., winning. But what would his legacy be if he brought a “World Series contender” team to the Mariners within 5 seasons of taking over? What if the Mariners had a top 5 farm system after 5 seasons? You’d be looking at a decade of winning baseball up there. That would be some legacy to leave behind.
Don’t be worried. When George was meddling back in the late 70’s and 80’s everything was fine with the Yankees. I don’t see why it would be any different now.
Cue the Yankee fans talking about trading joba for Felix, weaver, or other ridiculous packages as if he is a superstar…
Ehh, I’d rather just see him get one more shot at the rotation over Mitre.
But Joba for Felix straight up would be sweet! I think it can be done =P
No way! that trade is extremely lopsided. The Mariners would have to throw in a few prospects.
Ummm…..NO. Knowledgeable fans would not. If the Yankees were going to make a trade for Felix & wanted Joba to be a part of the trade he would be an auxiliary piece. The Yankees would have have to pony up at least 5 of their top prospects right now including the 2B & SS (forgot their names). Probably the top C as well if Sea did not want Montero.
At this point Joba will not be a centerpiece for anything more then a #4 SPer probably a starter that is being dumped for salary purposes….
Yea, they’d have to give up Hughes and Cano for Felix.
No they wouldn not.
If we’re talking about Felix Hernandez then the price will be very steep. Think Johan Santana steep, but much higher.
Terrific. If “non-baseball people” sticking their collective noses where they don’t belong becomes a new trend, it’ll be the mid-2000’s all over again: a worthless collection of all-stars with albatross contracts capable only of early playoff exits. Cashman clearly proved his worth from 2006 and on when he was given full control of baseball operations and rebuilt the farm system,jettisoned aging players via trade and allowed the debilliatatin
(sorry my DISQUS was acting funky and I accidentally posted I suppose)
and allowed the debilitating contracts to expire (see 2008). He signed the free agents he needed to sign and got the Yankees a world series win in 2009 followed by a decent playoff run in 2010. What more can you ask for? Sign Cliff Lee? He tried and gave him a ludicrous contract offer which he simply said “no” to.
So heeding the bile from ignorant fans (generally the entire Yankee fan base) the “money people”, i.e. Randy Levine, needed to make a splash to appease the idiots and their loss of Cliff Lee. This whole situation just irks me. I’m not mad the Yankees signed Soriano, he can hopefully help the team (and perhaps restart the whole Joba-the-Starter discussions), I’m just mad at how it was done.
I agree. I was totally for signing Soriano. I still think it’s a good move. However, I don’t like the terms of the deal (too much money). I also would be more willing to sacrifice NOT having Soriano if it meant Cashman keeping his autonomy for making decisions. I have a hell of a lot more faith in him than I do any of the sons or Randy Levine.
I agree with you that non-baseball people should not get involved in baseball operations, however your statement implies that Cashman is in a baseball person category and if you believe that I would say that you are wrong. I usually give credit where it is deserved when it comes to Cashman but you did not have to be a genius to do what he did in the 2006 offseason. It just took most people by surprise because something like that was not done on such a large scale before. Cashman draft picks have been terrible even though the farm is rather good right now. The job in the offseason is to get better for the next season and the Soriano signing made the Yankees better which was something they have not been able to do.
Not sure how you can make a statement that he his draft picks have been terrible. He didn’t have autonomy to control the draft decisiosns until 2005. Since then he’s drafted Joba, IPK, Austin Jackson, Brett Gardner, David Robertson, Mark Melancon and at least 7 guys who could possibly be counted as top 100-150 prospects (Betances, Brackman, Romine, Laird, Phelps, Adams, Joseph). But those 6 already in the majors, holding jobs, are just the fruits from the 2005 and 2006 draft classes.
He missed on his 2005 1st rnd pick by drafting CJ Henry but his following 1st rnd picks have been IPK (’06), Joba (’06), Andrew Brackman (’07), Gerrit COle (’08), Slade Heathcott (’09) and Cito Culver (’10). That’s a decent collection of prospects.
I’ve been waiting for you. Sorry it took me so long to get back but I went out for dinner. Anyway- I already ready know that you are very pro front office from a number of your past posts and I do wonder why that seems to be the case. However I do believe you are one of the better posters on the site and I think we will just have to disagree on this case as well. You make it sound like he actually drafted well. Every team is going to get something out of their draft. So far his third round draft pick from 05 has made the biggest impact. He turned IPK and Jackson into Granderson and then the next best player so far is Joba. I’m not impressed.
I think most teams would be happy to have 1 player from each draft become a star.
Compare some of the teams considered to be great drafters..
2005
Rays- Wade Townsend (1st), Jeremy Hellickson (4th)
R.Sox- Ellsbury (1st), Buchholz (1st), Lowrie (1st), Bowden (1st)
Twins- Garza (1st), Slowey (2nd), Duesing (3rd)
Brewers- Braun (1st), Gamel (4th), Brantley (7th)
Yanks- Gardner (3rd), Austin Jackson (8th)
2006
Rays-Longoria (1st), Jennings (10th)
R.Sox-Bard, Masterson, Reddick, Kalish, Anderson
Brewers-Jeremy Jeffress (1st), Cole Gillipsie (3rd)
Twins-Parmelee (1st) Valencia (19th)
Yanks- IPK (1st), Joba (1st), David Robertson (17th), Mark Melancon (8th), Dellin Betances (9th)
2007
Rays- Price (1st overall), Matt Moore (8th)
R.Sox-Nick Hagadone (1st), Anthony Rizzo (6th)
Brewers- Matt LaPorta(1st), Johnathon Lacruy (2nd)
Twins-Ben Revere (1st)
Yanks- Brackman (1st), Romine (2nd), Laird (27th)
Those are his first three drafts since being given complete control and from it the drafts produced 6 good mlb players and 3 prospects that could be top 100 guys (Betances, Romine, Brackman). And most of the elite talents for teams like the Brewers and Rays were guys taken in the first 10 picks which is obviously a draft position the Yanks had no chance at because of their record.
So what I am saying is that Cashman has found good talent in practicaly every draft despite not have high 1st rnd picks.
Most teams would consider a draft that produced 1 or 2 mlb players (even if they’re not all-stars) to be good drafts.
I thought Gerritt Cole was pitching for UCLA
I think they should give Joba one more chance. Like I said in another post I live in Nebraska only 35 miles from UNL where Joba pitched for Nebraska. I’ve seen him pitch in person and the guy is a stud. I know it’s college but he was constatly going deep into games. If they would just let the guy pitch and not worry about how many innings or pitches in a year he throws and just leave him in the rotation I think he would suprise some people how good he can be. He really can’t have a good year flip flopping from starter to pen and back again so let the guy pitch, if he does poorly for a whole year as a starter then do what they wish but at least give him chance.
Agreed. Let him be the 4th starter and just do his thing.
Posada said he will breakdown as a starter and is better suited for the bullpen. Just giving you what he said not agreeing or disagreeing. Although he did breakdown as a starter in texas
I agree. A this time Joba’s body of work is much better than Mitre’s.
This can be said for NUMEROUS college pitchers that simply could not hack it in Pro Baseball. In other words, it’s meaningless. Time and time again the following rings true; college success does not assure pro success.
ok that may be true and I said that college is different than the pros but the Yankees will never know what Joba can really do unless they give him a full year as a starter. I didn’t say that he would be a guaranteed superstar in the majors because of his success in college, but I did say they will never know what they can do until they give him a chance.
Joba is by no means a “stud” on the major league level, he wasn’t even considered to be one in Minor League ball. Maybe in college, but he’ playing at a much higher level now.
I’m a lifelong Yankee fan. That said, I do not want to see Joba starting do or die games in August. No thank you. I don’t want his shot at the rotation to cost us our season.
I never said Joba was a “stud” on the major league level. Guess what though nobody really knows how good the guy really is they keep messing with him. Like I said just give him one full year as a starter in the majors just to see what can he do. Really who else can do any worse than him? Look at what they got going into this year do you really think that Joba can really do any worse than what they have now?
He wasn’t considered a stud in the minors? I won’t even address this. Look at the ONLY year he spent in the minors (2007) and his ranking by Baseball America.
“Joba is by no means a “stud” on the major league level, he wasn’t even considered to be one in Minor League ball.”
He was the second best all around prospect by baseball america two years ago, so please if you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t pretend too.
There’s nothing wrong with a GM being over ruled by his masters in making a baseball decision, but in any world, with any budget, it’s just sheer madness to pay a set up man $ 12 MM per season, or $ 16.8MM per when you figure in the 40% luxury tax, and give up your first round draft pick to a division rival in the deal.
The Yanks made over 400 million last year, they can afford the tax because they are trying to win the series. Other teams playing in this system, either pocket the tax money given to them and don’t try to win, or have owners like the Twins, and the Nationals that are worth Billions and don’t put some of that money into the team. These teams should find innovative ways to create revenue like owning a TV station, or move some place that will at least support the team. Teams like Tampa, Pirates, and KC should moved or eliminated.
Both the Twins and Nationals have spent some money this offseason, particularly the Nationals, so I don’t see how you could justify that statement. You can’t just say “hey let’s start our own TV network”, you have to have sufficient revenue and ratings to justify such a decision. And where do you suggest they move to? There’s only so many big baseball markets in the country, and they all have existing teams, it’s not like every team can go to New York or Boston. Eliminate the Rays!!!? Have you been living under a rock the past few seasons?
As a BoSox fan, I’m thrilled to death about the loss of that first round pick. The Yanks already have a very good farm, and I’d hate to see it get deeper. But the Rays have an even better farm and essentially have 13 first round picks now. I can see the Rays coming back to bite us both in the tails for a number of years, down the line. With Crawford, he’s a game-changer; steady and durable. With Soriano, its a crap-shoot, unless he performs consistently and eventually replaces Mo. I think Cashman’s course was the smarter one, from a baseball perspective.
Well the problem is, the first round pick goes to another team in the same division. Plus, I think people overreact a bit on the Yankees losing a first round pick. It was the Thirty First pick, not the First pick. They get another pick 10 picks later I believe. Know what other team doesn’t have a first round pick? The Phillies. Of course they got a better player in Cliff Lee than the Yankees did with Soriano.
But I think Yankee fans are overreacting on the 31st overall pick. Yes it’s supposed to be a great draft, but who knows how good/bad these prospects will turn out. Some of them won’t be up for a few years, and there will be plnety of other drafts to come in the next few years (although I don’t know how talented the players in those drafts will be of course).
If the Pirates, M’s or Dbacks had signed Soriano, I can see the big question mark since they would be giving up the early picks.
I could be wrong, but I think the Yanks don’t have a first round or supplementary round pick, which means they’re first pick would be at something like No. 99 in a very deep draft. The Pirates, M’s and D’backs all have protected first round picks, so they’d be giving up only their “very early” second round picks.
They have a supplementary pick when Vazquez signed with the Marlins after the Yankees offered him arb and they had a gentlemens agreement.
As far as 2nd round order and after goes, I can’t find it online (yet). So I don’t know exactly what number pick in the order the Yankees have.
Good call on the Vasquez pick. I forgot that he was offered Arb and declined.
It’s the 49th overall. You can see an update to the draft order at mymlbdraft.
Thanks
Thanks
Yeah…the whole “giving a draft pick to a rival arguement” is meaningless. It’s not like that one pick is given to be of consequential signifigance at the mlb level. It’s an unknown quantity. Over the last three years, the Yanks have had more success in the playoffs with a far weeker farm system than the Rays. Between international free agency, lots of great later round picks we’ve made and mlb free agency we can compensate for losing the 31st overall pick. AND I’m sure there will be plenty of early 1st round talent that will slip down to our next pick at 49th overall.
The way the Yankees operate and the way you think a baseball team should operate seem to be two different things and that is not a knock towards you in anyway. I think it’s just an understanding that spending money in baseball is relative. After all it’s not your money what do you care. The Soriano signing makes me feel that the spirit of George lives on.
It’s not easy looking into the crystal ball. I think the Yanks need to make up their mind on Joba. He’s been jerked around long enough. That being said, I could see them trading Joba for Edwin Jackson or Wandy Rodriqez. Both have more experience in starting and would be good #4 pitchers for the Yanks. Since both are free agents next year they could keep the seat warm for Noesi, Brackman, and Phelps. Of those three I think Phelps or Noesi would have the best chance next year. Since Nova has little experience I think the Yanks will either go with Chamberlain as a starter, or trade him for one of the above players.
Obviously you mean Joba + for either SP. The Astros won’t trade their top starter for a middle reliever…
With Rodriquez always worry about pitchers leaving the NL and pitching in the AL East. There are no easy outs in the line ups. The Yankees already went through that the Randy Johnson and Javier Vasquez.
What “viable” starter does Cashman think he’s going to get at this point for Joba? Sure, he’s only 25 and has a good arm, but the fact remains that as a starter, he’s been an abject failure. His ERA in the rotation isn’t terrible at just over a 4, but the guy gives you no innings whatsoever, even when he has been stretched out. A 5 inning, back of the rotation starter, or, a decent relief pitcher who throws hard. That’s what Joba is at this point. Unless they plan on adding prospects, I just can’t see how they could hope for a viable starter in return.
You can blame the ridiculous “Joba Rules” for him averaging 5 innings per start. At times he started games but was limited to 90 pitches and wouldn’t get out of the 3rd inning. He went from 8 wins and 2 losses with a 3.73 ERA on August 6th 2009, to 9 wins and 6 losses with a 4.74 at the end of the season.
The “Joba Rules” suck!!
What a mess they have out there in NY.
I’ve gained a lot of respect for Cashman. Sure, he has a big budget, but he does seem to try to keep things in perspective and he is an extremely sharp person. I think the Yankees would be foolish to lose this guy.
The way the Yankees operate and the way you think a baseball team should operate seem to be two different things and that is not a knock towards you in anyway. I think it’s just an understanding that spending money in baseball is relative. After all it’s not your money what do you care. The Soriano signing makes me feel that the spirit of George lives on.
I don’t see a huge problem with starting Joba at least in the first few games, if they can’t get another starter that is. He is arguably their WORST middle reliever now. By the middle of the season, I’m sure if Pettitte is retired or doesn’t come back, and if Joba struggles, Cashman will make a trade for one. It wouldn’t hurt the Yankees to start Joba in the first few games and then see how effective or ineffective he is. Perhaps they can try to get Justin Duchscherer first, but if he doesn’t come here, try Joba.
I think Hendry should be ALL OVER this. Either work a deal that sends Zambrano for cash to the Yankees OR trade Dempster/Fukudome for Joba/Gardner. Basically, piece a pricey player with a good player and trade them for a decent package (ala the Beckett/Lowell trade to Boston, but not for as much).
LOL…..
You seriously expect ANYONE to take Z’s three remaining years at around 56M AND expect them to send cash the Cubs way? Or, you want them to take a decent player like Dumpster AND the 14M or so owed to Fukudome and have them send back young and cheap PLUS young and cheap?
You are completely off your rocker if you think that either of those scenarios would happen.
The reason the Beckett deal happened was because he was a high ceiling, WS MVP, who was 25 at the time. Dempster is almost 10 years older than Beckett was at the time of the trade.
If I’m the Yanks I would see if the Cards are in the market for Joba for Chris Carpenter. Pujols must be signed by spring training so Carpenter may be expendable. Carpenter will be a free agent next year with a big club obtion at age 37. He is a perfect fit for the Yanks, and if anyone can mold Joba its Dave Duncan. The Yanks could try to extend Carpenter past next year.
Are you drunk right now?
I not drinking until the football games come on. Look anyway you look at it Carpenter is not getting a 15 million option next year. Pujols is getting 27-30 and Wainwight has an obtion. Carpenter is the odd man out. The Cards might keep him until the see where they are in the standings in July. Either way they are not picking up his obtion next year. If they wait they won’t get anything for him.
I knew it! Joba for chris carpenter?! What?! A poor starter or above average middle reliever in exchange for a cy young caliber pitcher. You sir, are a genius.
First of all…NO. Second of all….what the hell is a club obtion? It’s OPTION.
I really hope you did not mean Joba for Carpenter straight up. At this point, I don’t think the Cards would even accept Joba + Hughes for Carpenter and I wouldn’t blame them.
As a Red Sox fan, I hope the Yankees let Cashman’s contract expire. He has been the only thing keeping the Steinbrenner family from turning the Yankees into a total train wreck. Prince Hal and Mr. Hankey could be every bit as entertaining as Rex Ryan, given the chance.
Cashman has been on his toes the last couple of weeks trying to pick up a starter to replace Pettitte. That would be some feet!
“That would be some feet! ”
Paging Rex Ryan
“That would be some feet! ”
Paging Rex Ryan
Same thing was said about Minaya numerous times.
He wasn’t considered a stud in the minors? I won’t even address this. Look at the ONLY year he spent in the minors (2007) and his ranking by Baseball America.
I don’t see why Cashmen and Steinbrenners can’t disagree on a specific FA signing without Cashmens job being in jeopardy. I think the Soriano move is fine but its easy to see why a GM who already has the worlds greatest closer could be less than in love with it. If the Steinbrenners have any common sense they stick with Cashmen and just enjoy the fact that they got a smart GM who they can over rule if they ever feel like making luxury signings.
The Yanks have many options with Joba. Starter, reliever, or trade him for Carpenter, Rodriquez, or Jackson. Cashman is always looking for the next deal to improve the team. That’s what I like about him. As we see with the signing of Soriano, anything is possible. I wouldn’t be surprised if they add a top pitcher before spring training, or at least by mid season.
I think the yankees have to move Joba back into the rotation. His numbers as a starter prior to that august where everything fell apart (because of the innings limit) and his numbers in the second half of this season were great. I think if he starts to prepare to be a starter right now, and can work on a changeup he will be a very successful pitcher. But the most important reason why he should be a starter, is that right now there are no other better options for the yankees. Phelps, Noesi, Brackman, Bentances, and Banuelos, haven’t had major league experience, and the three B’s haven’t even had enough experience at AAA.
The Yanks do have 6 good pitchers coming in the next few years. I agree, Joba could be the man to start or they could trade him and someone else for a proven starter.
Until you realize that your prospects are overhyped and overrated, and your rotation is once again filled with overpriced free agents. Hooray
Right because Baseball America and Jim Calis are on the Yanks payroll and every other teams prospect are “honest” evaluations. Childish.
The Yanks do have 6 good pitchers coming in the next few years. I agree, Joba could be the man to start or they could trade him and someone else for a proven starter.
If Cashman is serious, he should talk to the Braves about Derek Lowe. Lowe’s age and high salary might be adequate compensation for him being a much better starter than Joba. And Lowe has already been successful in the AL East.
That was 6 years ago.
His current skills are what they are. But the point is, he’s not intimidated by pitching in Yankee Stadium or Fenway, or by big-market media idiots.
The Yanks won’t go for Lowe after Vasquez’s performance last year. I think they would rather go with Joba over Lowe.
After looking at some projections he might be a fit for the Yanks, he is over paid at 15million but he is an innings eater and has been consistent in his career. A projected War of 3.3 is good. He projects to be better than Pettitte and AJ, so did Vasquez.
That was 6 years ago.
If Cashman is serious, he should talk to the Braves about Derek Lowe. Lowe’s age and high salary might be adequate compensation for him being a much better starter than Joba. And Lowe has already been successful in the AL East.
Paul Maholm… make it so.
I would be for giving Joba another chance in the rotation, however his dramatic drop in velocity when he starts is worrysome…
at this point, I think I’d rather sign Justin Durscherer with Joba remaining in the pen as insurance. Would also be happy if they brought Andrew Jones aboard.
And I really think they should bring Aceves back. He probably can’t contribute much this year, but he’s proven to be very competent pitching in NY and the type of deal they could presumably get him for would be low risk…
Yeah…..their full-backing. I’ve said here many times, this Guy is nothing more than a fantasy league GM. Put him in Pittsburgh or Kansas City without a ridiculous payroll and he’d be an afterthought.