So much for the Angels' quiet offseason. The Angels and Blue Jays have announced a blockbuster trade that sends center fielder Vernon Wells to Los Angeles in exchange for catcher/first baseman Mike Napoli and outfielder Juan Rivera. Wells waived his no-trade clause to make the deal happen.
Wells, 32, hit .273/.331/.515 with 31 homers for Toronto in 2010, rebounding from an injury-plagued and disappointing stretch from 2007-09 when he managed just a .743 OPS. The number most associated with Wells, however, is his contract. The center fielder signed a seven-year, $126MM extension with Toronto in 2006 that runs through 2014. Wells is slated to earn $23MM next season and $21MM in each of the following three years, though he has the option of opting out of his deal after 2011.
The Halos took a lot of local and national criticism for failing to sign Carl Crawford, Adrian Beltre and other major targets this winter, especially since owner Arte Moreno said he was prepared to spend to get his team back into contention in the AL West. Acquiring Wells will quiet some of those critics, but now the Angels are paying Wells a higher average annual value ($21.5MM) over the next four years than Texas is paying Beltre ($16MM) over five years or Boston is paying Crawford (roughly $20.28MM) over seven years.
Wells presumably takes over in center field for L.A. now that Torii Hunter has been shifted to right, though Hunter (-6.2 UZR/150) was a bit better than Wells (-7.0 UZR/150) in center last season. Wells' defense did improve last year, however, and the former three-time Gold Glover could approach his old form playing on natural grass at Angel Stadium. The Angels could also explore putting Wells in left and give Peter Bourjos for the bulk of playing time in center.
The Angels dealt from a position of strength; along with Napoli, the Halos have backstops Jeff Mathis, Hank Conger and Bobby Wilson on their 40-man roster.
Getting Wells' $86MM salary off the books (especially without sending L.A. any money in return) is a major achievement for Toronto GM Alex Anthopoulos, given that the contract was considered perhaps the most untradeable in all of baseball. The Jays also succeeded in keeping Napoli away from a division rival; the Rays appeared to be targeting the catcher/first baseman earlier this evening.
Napoli hit 26 home runs last year, reaching the 20-homer plateau for the third consecutive season. He hit .238/.316/.468 overall, with a career-high 137 strikeouts. The right-handed hitter has a .931 OPS against southpaws in his career, so he is a potential complement to the lefty-hitting Adam Lind at first base. The Jays could combine Napoli with Lind and Edwin Encarnacion at first, or with Jose Molina and J.P. Arencibia behind the plate. Would-be base stealers were successful 73% of the time they tried stealing off of Napoli in 2010; they've been successful 76% of the time in his career.
Napoli, 29, is arbitration eligible this year and eligible for free agency after 2012. He asked for $6.1MM in 2011 and the Angels countered with a $5.3MM offer, as MLBTR's Arb Tracker shows. MLBTR's Tim Dierkes used Napoli as an example of the arbitration process in this October post, predicting his agent could ask for $6-7MM.
Rivera, 32, is set to earn $5.25MM next season, the last year of a three-year, $12.75MM pact he signed with the Halos following the 2008 campaign. The veteran outfielder has a .272/.323/.448 line over the last two seasons, and has a career .832 OPS against left-handed pitching (though that OPS against lefties dropped to .746 last year). Rivera could play right field and allow Jose Bautista to move to third base. Rivera is also a candidate for DH time in Toronto, and could spell Travis Snider against southpaws.
Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports were the first to report on a Napoli-to-Toronto move this afternoon, and then added the news of Wells' involvement, plus details about the outfielder's physical and waiving of his no-trade clause. Mike Wilner of Sportsnet Radio The FAN 590 confirmed the Wells-for-Rivera/Napoli trade package in an e-mail to MLBTR and Shi Davidi of the Canadian Press tweeted the news that no money was being exchanged in the deal.
MLBTR's Mark Polishuk also contributed to this post
for who????
Bad news for JPA
That’s the end of Wells and that albatross contract of his. Don’t know about you but I’m about ready to dance for joy!
I like the trade but we did lose a 30 hr hitter. But i just hope they can find someone good with all this money they should be saying with wells out. Afterall he is an allstar. Its not my money they are spending so i really didnt mind seeing Wells in a toronto uniform. As lets say this year if we had that money to spend, i am sure we wouldnt have got anyone from the FA market. Referring to either Cliff Lee or Adam Dunn.
Mikey Nap is a 30 HR hitter, too (if you extrapolate his ABs over a normal 550-600 AB season)…remember, he would get days off for Jeff Mathis.
If you’re a Jays fan, I can’t believe you can see ANY downside of this deal.
i actually liked wells, probably one of the few jays fans that do. those 2 down season were due to injury. also i agree that he isn’t worth the contract he was given but it has been done and nothing can be done, also there is no salary cap in the MLB and why are we trying to save the jays money when the people that own them are rogers “crappy tv/internet” communications. AA clearly stated rogers will give him the green light on more spending if he requires it..
still a crazy good deal salary dump wise.GL wells.
I’m with you. Vernon will be missed. Always gave 100% percent and a real class act on and off the field it seems. Used that big contract to set his family for life and do charity work in Toronto and his home state of Texas… not party in Yorkville
Thanks for all your years of service Vernon! Good luck!
and not many all time jays you would rank ahead of him for his overall ability…its just too bad the cast wasnt able to get him to the playoffs so he couldve been more remembered
so what you want them to do is go with the Yankees approach and just throw money at the problem? keep in mind from 2000 yankees have only won ONE championship so….obviously buying a championship doesnt work….the plan is to draft well develop prospects and THEN put some money into a key FA when our team is established…why waste team money now?
Wow, didn’t see this coming.
Me neither, it was the funniest thing that happened all day. I bet the people in Toronto are going to be partying all night.
Come on 1988 is over Mike.
this is odd
“The Jays might not be sending any money to Los Angeles in the trade”
If this is true, then this might be the worst move of the offseason…
Well, it was already a terrible move but that would just be icing on the cake.
Poor JP Arencibia.
don’t feel bad for JPA, he will catch a lot of the games behind the plate, while Napoli and Lind will platoon at 1B/DH and Lawrie / Encarnacion will play 3B.
Encarnacion isn’t playing 3B Anthopolis made that abundantly clear when he signed him. Plus if the Jays got Rivera too he’ll be starting in Right and Bautista will be our 3B.
Rivera will not be staying with the Jays. He is not a AA type player and a cancer – look for him to be dealt quickly.
agreed…perhaps opens up a spot for a signing of Pods? i can only dream…
ya, can’t see the new manager not allow us to use our rookies for full seasons. i mean how else are we going to develop players. look for snider to have a monster season to fill wells position.
THRILLED!
I think Napoli becomes the DH, with Arencibia still the starting catcher, and Lind still the starting first baseman. Napoli will probably play catcher and first-base a game or so each per week, at which point Encarnacion gets the DH job. Really, I think it’s only Jose Molina who suffers.
I wonder if they’d be more likely to have Lind be the everyday DH with Napoli at first. Among other things, this would allow Napoli to slide over to C and have Encarnation slip in at first if something happens to Arencibia during a game.
If mike napoli is playing anything but DH something has gone terribly wrong!
Why, exactly? Napoli is more experienced at first, and he’s probably a better defender than Adam Lind is.
and throws out a decent 28% of baserunners i believe
From 1B? That’s awesome!
DH and 1st base maybe even 3rd???
If mike Napoli is playing 3rd something has gone terribly wrong for the Jays.
Do you even follow baseball?
Napoli at 3rd…LOL!
Poor Rays fans haha. False hope, thy name is Napoli.
I know..Poor Rays with all those first round draft choices and that great starting staff and all those A+ prospects and the best minor league system and shrewdest front office, and the fact despite a $30 million payroll, we’ll still be as competitive as the Jays…. how jealous we are of not acquiring Mike Napoli..If only we had a very bright future for probably the next decade instead of trying to out spend the Yankees and Sox…woe is me…
Relax psycho.
best minor league system?….get serious…you’re the only person in the world that believes that
Are you serious???….do you even know what baseball is or is someone prompting you with responses that make absolutely no sense?? ANYONE with any knowledge knows the Rays and Royals have the best farm systems in the majors right now BY FAR. Seriously..thanks, I needed a good laugh.
The Royals have the best farm system in baseball right now, in my opinion. The Rays are up there, as well.
actually its just the royals tampa and the jays both have a top 5 system tho
That was before the trade with the Cubs (for the Rays) Jays are rated 7th -9th by most
That should make you thrilled when you win the International and Eastern league crowns in the upcoming years.
Oh it will..and then when they come up and we win the A.L. East AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN because we actually have a farm system….Boy,,It’s nice to see all the haters on here..all I have to do is make a valid point and watch everyone freak out and sink themselves to calling names and act like children..thank for the attention guys.
you guys draft well but dont make facts up, you dont have the best minor league system. besides you guys wont be back in the playoffs for 3-4 years
Don’t have to. Do some research. Royals and Rays are rated 1-2 or vice versa by almost every publication. After we sign this draft, it won’t even be debatable.
relax fan boy
you guys will be the 2010 balt O’s next season. also the best MLS goes to the royals by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGG shot.
hahaha yeah you mean all those 1st round picks and A+ prospects that leave the first chance they get BAHAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAHHA
Wow..that was mature. Yeah because these days no players leave to make more money, especially small market teams. I guess Crawford should have resigned here for $8 million just to be loyal. If we were the YANKEES I would have been pissed at them paying him $142 million, that was ridiculous. Man..It’s good to know that the Rays are the only team that loses players to FA. You really told me. Wow..
What the hell? Is it the Rays or the Jays, and for what? GRRRR…
Maybe it’s the Ray-J’s?
Well, you could call them Rays. Or you could call them Jays. #badjokes
I just laughed out loud.
As did I
I guess they don’t have faith in Arencibia…or however you spell that.
Spelled exactly the way you did. 😉
I’m guessing he’s also an insurance policy incase Adam Lind can’t play 1B everyday
I hope Mathis doesn’t catch this year, I never really like Nap. either.
I guess the guy who put out the Napoli to Rays rumor just accidentally typed R instead of J
jeez talk about a sudden twist in the story…
I wouldn’t try him at 3rd.
Wow.. Rays having a bad off season
Rays are going to have tons of picks this year in a very deep draft, they will be fine and they have Jaso already.
Lol your acting like good picks instantly turn into contributing players. Rays are looking long-term, as usual.
their looking EXTREMELY GOOD long term – fixed
they’re* – fixed again
thanks. seriously
What’s wrong with looking extremely long term? It’s difficult for small market teams to remain competitive for years, that’s just how it is. However, don’t count them out just yet, remember when the A’s lost Giambi and Damon?
They have the second-rated farm system, according to BA…so it seems like they’re doing a pretty swell job of turning good picks into contributing players. But feel free to discount the fact about half (12) of the players from last season’s playoff team were drafted by Tampa Bay, and that 9 started at least one game in their Division series.
-C
Yes, because the Jays front office plan has served them so well since.. when?? 1992..Short term planning gets you, well, constant third and fourth place finishes. (see Toronto Blue Jays)
You know kdawg, for a fan of a team that has exactly zero WS titles, you sure like to run your mouth a lot. You need to relax, buddy. Show some class instead of insulting everyone else’s teams.
I haven’t insulted a single other persons team. I have responded to rude comments made about the Rays and myself. For you to call me out after the things that have been said to me is ridiculous. If I have been rude to anyone, it was in response to them acting childish, calling names or flat out being rude and uninformed. And I need to show some class?? I didn’t make crude remarks about anyone. There are a LOT of classless people on here and I’m not one of them. All anyone has for ammo on here is “your team has a small payroll”, “your team has crappy attendance” “you let a bunch of players go” What small market team doesn’t ?? This is ridiculous. The Rays have one of the top 2 farm systems. They run the team wisely and they have a ton of good prospects already as well as a ton of good draft picks. The future for them is bright. That’s all I’ve said and got blasted for it then criticized for not sitting there taking a bunch of insults from others that think they are the only one’s who know anything. Thank you for chastizing me though and telling me to take the abuse of others and smile and thenI”M the one talking smack…nice. BTW 2 A.L East titles in last 3 yrs. and a trip to the Series have made me a happy fan. Some fans teams don’t see the playoffs for decades so I’m not talking crap on anyone. I’m proud of what the Rays have done.
erm, they won it in 93 too…it was kinda a big deal
My bad..92 and 93…Joe Carter off Mitch Williams..was off by a yr. And yes that was a big deal.
sorry if I came off harsh, by the way…possibly my Blue Jays/Canadian inferiority complex
Nothing inferior about either one! 🙂
Go Jays!!
In a division where the two juggernauts are aging quickly, I think you’re overlooking how smart it is to be looking long-term.
Well, except that the two juggernauts are not actually ever going to get “old,” because they’ll buy everyone else’s young players once they hit their prime. That’s their avowed strategy.
I love how everyone thinks the Sox “buy all their players” When spring training breaks in 2012, 7 of our 8 position players will be home grown or traded for from our farm. Not many teams can say that!! !And at least 3/5 of the rotation fits that category… so find another excuse for falling short!
I do like the way the red sox operate,but you act like they don’t buy their players….Carl Crawford, JD Drew, John Lackey, Matsuzaka, and Gonzo who, yea its a trade but its not like the Rays or Royals would trade for him knowing they would have to pay him an enormous contract, and you kept Beckett only a handful a teams would have been able to resign him for that price and I remember Casey Kelly fell to the Sox because of signing concerns, so it affects the draft which in turn affects trades…the buying power the sox have allows them to make trades for star players or draft expensive prospects , resigning their own players and sign the occasional carl crawford, manny ramirez or lackey the majority of teams cannot
Love the Rays, but just because they have a lot of high picks doesn’t mean much if they don’t have the draft budget to pick the best players available. The way the draft is currently set up, a team with fewer picks and a larger budget can make up for it by signing players in later rounds, and actually end up with more ML talent (therefore, a better draft) in the end.
How exactly are they having a bad offseason? They opened up spots in their rotation and SS slots for better players. They have THIRTEEN of the first 90 picks in the draft. They hauled in 8 VERY GOOD prospects in their trades and it looks like Damon and Manny will both be signed this weekend…Great off season in my opinion. May not be in the hunt next year or two, but in the long run, they’re going to be competing for championships every year just with the talent they develop.
Yeah, as a Jays fan I must admit that the Rays have had a great offseason. I do think that the 2011 team is worse than the 2010 team was, but they took a strong farm system and made it even better, loaded up on picks for the the deepest draft in recent memory and found inexpensive, but elegant pieces to fill the holes on their roster (like the Manny and Damon signings which both look like pretty nice deals to me). Both the Jays and Rays look like they are taking one step back in 2011 in order to take many steps forward in subsequent years.
I think that the Yankees are probably worse than they were last year too though so even though the Red Sox have got to be the favourites in the AL East the Rays and Jays do have a chance this season. Personally after the Manny and Damon signings I think the Rays are my pick for the wild card. Texas or Oakland (whoever doesn’t win the AL West) would be good choices as well though as would the Yankees (who are still a good team, obviously).
Well there is no way, the rays could of matched taht deal. Atleast now that Angels got Wells, they might be able to compete in that division next year. Your adding a #3 hitter in that lineup infront of Kendry Morales. This is a very good move for the Angels interms of picking up a good hitter. But they do have to pay him a ton but who else is out their to sign??
So many details. <—LIE
I feel like this is a trade Mike Scioscia made. He always preferred Mathis to Napoli.
It feels like a real Jacob and Esau thing is going on in Anaheim.
It’s more of a Goofus and Gallant thing…
Angry Nates unite!
A) This means no Manny in Toronto.
B) This means reduced playing time for JP Arencibia.
C) I really wonder what we gave up to acquire Napoli. (Stewart?)
god I hope not Stewart, someone mentioned Thames which I think would be about right
Definitely not Stewart.
I’m betting Frasor
I’m betting Vernon Wells. 😉
Way to make a bad offseason worse Angels. Sigh…
Maybe I am prematurely upset since we don’t know who is coming back, but c’mon Angels. Lacking power, so lets trade a 30 HR catcher.
look up his stats, dude. homers arent everything. in almost every other stat, offensively and defensively, he’s subpar.
Guest … please follow your advice and look at the stats. Here is Napoli’s rank amongst all catchers by year using wOBA (200 PA minimum):
2007: 6th (out of 39)
2008: 1st (out of 41)
2009: 4th (out of 45)
2010: 12th (out of 44)
Overall from 2007 to 2010 Napoli sits at 6th out of all catchers. The guys above him include Mauer, Posada, Martinez, Soto, and McCann. That’s pretty elite company. Napoli is a beast with the bat.
Are you Mike Scioscia?!
And offensively, Napoli is one of the better hitting catchers in baseball.
Umm sure Napoli hit 20+ homers, but that was all he did. Situational hitting? Nope. Plus 70% runners stole a base? That’s horrible. Sure Nap was cool, but wasn’t that great.
Then again, i too don’t know who we got, and since they didnt even mention it, im pretty nervous. So maybe Reagins this miff this one too.
1. The guy has never hit 30 HR’s
2. The team was not going to play him at catcher
3. This frees up about $6m to sign Vlad/Manny, etc
You can easily replace Napoli’s bat with a dedicated DH.
You’re right, but I do think he’s more than capable to hit 30 HRs in a season if given playing time. In fact, I’m willing to guarantee he will hit 30 with Toronto.
This trade still doesn’t make sense to me from the Angels’ perspective.
Manny signed w/ the Rays for 2 mil.
i dont like this move
we already have a similar type player in JP who is much more cheaper and with better defense
he’ll be stopping his progression ….. AA’s first disappointing move of the season so far ….
I hope there is something else planned for napoli
disappointing? wells makes 21.5 million over the next 4 years. its more a contract dump than a trade. napoli will be a solid backup c to arencebia, and fill in at first if lind doesn’t work out. good deal, i just hope we can unload jose molina
he actually makes 86 million over the next 4 years. I’m guessing you ment an average of 21.5 per season.
yes i shoulda said that clearer! thanks. So in total money the jays took back 11 million in contracts for one year…a saving of 75 million over the long term. As long as they spend as they say they will this is a great salary dump. Verns a good player with a horrible contract
What are the Angels doing?
The practice is called self-immolation. The label on the kerosene can said it was supposed to go quicker than this.
Commander Nate – – Much love/props as always.
HH needs a quickly ordered and executed happy hour tonight. I’ll buy a round.
I know Nap44 will too…
this might not effect Arencibia that much. in 2010 Napoli had more games at 1B(70) than he did at C(66).
70 games of pure need. He plays how many games if the Angels were hit by injuries?
I know Napoli played 1B because Morales was injured. but what I’m saying is with Napoli ability he could see time at 1B/DH and the Jays could still give significant time to the catcher of the future Arencibia. if Napoli could only play C then it would be bad news for Arencibia.
He really doesn’t provide value as a first baseman. Not so much as a DH either. I know having versatility is nice but his only real value is playing 110-120 games behind the dish, which I wanna see that happen.
he doesn’t have value at DH? I have no clue on his defensive ability at 1B, but he is not a good defensive C. the article up above lists his caught stealing %. his best asset is his offense and should get into the lineup as much as possible.
As an A’s fan, I approve of this move. The Angels are having an outstanding offseason!
Unreal…the turnover on that roster that AA has done is mind-boggling
in a good or bad way?
In a good way.
Why Angels, why? This makes almost no sense. Mike Napoli is a better offensive threat than any other DH option you’re considering.
uhhhhh, no.
First let me say thank you for your insightful comment. IF we compare the decline if Bobby Abreu, Vladimir Guerrero and Manny Ramirez we will see that Mike Napoli makes much more sense then either of those three, the current targets for LAA’s open DH. Thanks for stopping by though.
I’d rather have Manny or Vlad DHing over Napoli….
but i’d rather have napoli if it means getting rid of wells
Seriously?
Napoli is a solid guy and I loved him AS A CATCHER. He simply did not produce nearly enough at 1B or DH. His value is all tied to his prodigious offense at the catching position.
Vlad, Manny, and even Abreu had better seasons than Napoli. In the case of Manny and Vlad they were MUCH better. Factoring in regression for those guys still doesn’t tip the scale in Napoli’s favor.
Look – the Angels screwed up here, but not for the reasons you articulated. They should have played the guy at catcher. That was their mistake. However, if they weren’t going to let him catch then a trade was necessary. We free up money to go get a better bat AND we get something in return from Toronto (TBD on the haul).
well, if we stop by each players stats, which are indisputable facts reflecting their performaces, not opinions, we will see that abreu and vladdy are much better dh options then napoli, who is only good for 20 hr/ a season, and thats it. abreu and vladdy offer greater power, average, and obp. nice try tho…
Napoli is too fat to catch, and What did he have to sacrafice to hit 26 homers? His 2010 BA .238
He had a down-year, but BA is not the stat to judge him by…He can still take a walk and has tremendous power for a catcher (3 straight 20+ HR seasons). I’d look for a .275ish BA/355OBP/480slg line from Napoli, especially in the Rogers Centre. He will probably quite a bit of time at DH, that I do agree with.
Good thing the ANGELS have Mendoza Mathis behind the dish… what a waste…
I’m guessing Wilson catches at least 40 games before the break and Conger 40 after the break. If Mathis doesn’t hit like he did last April he is DFA by September.
You insult Mendoza.
Blue jays have made alot of good moves this off season, but there division still will keep them from making the playoffs. unless the yankee’s choke bad next year, i don’t see a spot for them for a couple more years
That’s the plan. Build now for the future.
Uggh, I am going to cringe if its for Bautista.. Blaaaah!
HA!
unfortunately, that kinda makes sense
but something else would have to come to the Jays… right?
Sciosia must really hate Napoli ;(.
makes me sick
He does.
I think Lind and Napoli both will share time at 1B and DH, so doesn’t really effect JPA
did we maybe get vernon wells or bautista id take that then lol
Wells? Please no.
it’s vernon wells according to ken rosenthal
i hope he will be our DH/3B/1B depending on the matchups but i would hate to c him taking time away from JP just like Buck did last yr
And how much did he ask btw 6 mill .. lol thats alot
Looks like the angels are conceding they have no chance to contend in 2011 and are looking further towards the Mike Trout era. sigh.
They sure are doing what it takes, aren’t they.
I think our interest was fake but we accomplished nothing with him going elsewhere so fast, damn Jays couldn’t wait for us to sign Manny.
wow, i wasstill reading the post for the Ray’s potentially signing Nap, being that they’re no names mentioned coming back probably gonna be some junk prospects, way to go Halos, tony’s big splash…
Interesting to see what the Farrell does with his lineup.
I wonder if these means that Lind is staying at DH and Napoli will be their full time 1B.
I think the Angels would hold on to him if he could.
He can barely play catcher, but he has power and I’m not happy the Angels are trading him.
As sad as I am to see nap dog go, it was pretty clear that he was going to be traded this offseason.
NO
Nope, barely learned 1st last year
Don’t forget that the Jays have a number of good players playing for cheap.
Jose Bautista only made $2.4 million and is still under club control…
Bautista’s going to make at least $7.5 million next season.
He filed for around $10 million in arbitration, dunno if i’d call that too cheap
stupid. Angels are not smart. what the heck are the thinking?!?!?
Getting rid of dead weight. They’re doing what they couldn’t decide to do — and should have done — at the deadline. There were rumors all over about them trading Napoli, Rivera, Matsui, Abreu, and Rodney to replenish their system and to free up cash for this offseason. Now you know another reason why they haven’t done much more than this and sign 2 top relievers.
Wherd this come from? Makes no sense to me..
They’re going to hit ALOT of home runs next year.
#predictionsfromwinter2010
I don’t think Napoli is the make or break component for the Angels, not a big fan of this unless the return is decent but they do have a glut of catchers…
It’s about time that Napoli got moved to some where where he might actually be able to contribute. It was unreal the notion of Mathis starting all of those games in favor of Napoli.
Without knowing who was sent for Napoli, this is AWESOME! I’ve been saying for the past few years that Napoli is criminally underrated and that Toronto should go after him. It adds a bat to the lineup that can take a walk, and gives Toronto even more power. Awesome pick-up for AA, and it seems like the Angels and Scosia never were that sold on Napoli and perferred Mathis over him, but i’m not really sure why. Jays are stock-piled at the Catcher position, and perhaps they aren’t convinced that JP is the Catcher of the future, and even if he isn’t they still have D’Araund and Perez (who I really like) coming up in the not so distant future. Napoli definitely gives them a better option for this upcoming season. Another solid move for AA, actually one that I love.
Now that I think about it more, Napoli probably gets a lot of time at DH/1B, which makes a lot of sense for this team. He’s a way better option than Damon or Pods who Toronto was reportedly looking at. JP is still going to get his AB’s this year, but i’m still not convinced he’ll be as good as some are predicting…I guess we’ll see. This is a very good move for AA, depending on who they gave back.
My best guess at the moment – Angels get Rajai Davis in this deal.
This is smart Angel fans, We’re too deep at that position. Nobody would lay their hands on Mathis. We needed to unload.
But who are we getting? Napoli may not be needed for us, but there are many teams that need him. We could get a pretty good package for him. Upton for Nap? whooo dam
dying to know who the Jays coughed up for this one – can’t imagine it a youngster on the roster or a top level prospect – maybe Edwin E and a reliever?
Wow snatched from the Rays how rude.
Unclear what the Angels get in return, but if they sign one of the DHs left on the market (Vlad, Damon) they could very easily get something close to Napoli’s batting back into production.
I still agree, that I don’t know what the Angels are doing. They were supposed to be big players this offseason. Granted they were priced out of the top free agents they wanted, but thats never an excuse to stay status quo.
EDIT: I change my position, Vernon Wells, what a haul.
WHO WE GETTING?!?!
I honestly can’t think of any Blue Jay worth getting for the Angels, especially for a commodity like Napoli. Even though the Angels are stock-piled at catcher, still doesn’t mean Napoli is worthless. In fact, I’m pretty sure ANY team would love a power-hitting catcher like Nap. Sigh, dammit Reagins.
no one that good, i am sure of that.
Toronto was not desperate for catcher, so doesnt make sense if they gave up anything of value.
You can’t think of a single Blue Jay worth the trade?! Ouch!
Just what the Angels needed to do: Get rid of offense. I’m totally bewildered by the Angels off-season this year.
The suspense is wrenching my soul! Who do the Angels get in return?
If the Angels are really looking towards the future then they should make a lot more moves after Napoli. They could get a a massive haul from the Yankees for Haren right now. Too bad the Angels won’t make this type of move. This is really just Scioscia move. Looks like a third plave finish for the Halos.
Napoli was a better catcher than Mathis, are the Angels trying to have a worse off season than the 2010 Mariners?
Napoli was a better catcher than Mathis? Defensively? Ha! Who are you? go watch soccer you need 2 find a new sport.
looking at the jays 40 man roster, the only player i can think were getting in return is vernon wells. theres no way theyre trading bautista, and encarnacion is too similar to callaspo. from here, trade rivera for leadoff speed or just sign podsednik…
Nooooooooo…not Vernon Wells.
hmmm… how bout that…
It’s not going to be Wells…but I hope to god it is! EE is a different player than Callaspo, as he has power in his bat and the capability to hit 20hr’s, while Callapso doesn’t. Not to say EE is involved, even though i’d be perfectly fine with that too.
interesting…
If we’re talking major league-level player, Rajai Davis seems most obvious to me. Speedy leftfielder who can bat leadoff.
if the Angles wanted Vernon Wells and would pay his entire salary, you do that in a heart beat. Wells is paid WAY too much $$$. free of that salary owed to Wells the Jays would have A LOT of spending money.
another interesting perspective… lol
I think people are looking into this too much. The catching position is not JP’s to win, it’s for him to lose. Napoli is a great insurance policy at first and catcher. I think the trade is great for the Jays.
Napoli is a better player than Arencibia will ever be.
Are you joking? Napoli is an average catcher/first base in the league where as JP has a chance to be one of the better hitting catchers in the league and plays way better defence already the Napoli ever did/will.
Arencibia would have to hit .320 to have an even decent OBP.
I wonder if this changes Encarnacion’s nickname again. E5 to E3 to E-bench.
I hope so. I’m thinking something like a lind/napoli platoon, with some AB’s at C and DH for napoli as well. Plus if JPA struggles mightily you have a potential replacement who can still hit (compared to molina).
I like E-benches contract since it’s cheap, but he’s still all “potential” at age 27. At least with Napoli you have a rough idea what to expect.
I’m expecting a 1B/DH 3-way platoon with EE, Lind and Napoli.
Are the Angels even going to finish in the top 2 in their division next year?
You wanna play the recent history game? Really Canada?
yeahh… LOL
Hey America, because a team you cheer for has more recently won a world series, Jays fans can’t speculate as to how well the Angels will do? Seriously?
Wow. Love Canada. Jays, recently, very average. Angels, above averge.
Top 4?
First off, whoever was involved in the original Napoli rumors is either a moron or needs to go for the ‘J’ key next time. How do you not even know the Jays are involved and then about 4 hours later they make the deal?
Also, what the heck is with the Jays and A’s stealing all our potential players this year? Is this some sort of silly rhyme rivalry we don’t know about?
EE will be facing Leftys as he can only hit them and he sucks against Righty’s. I see lind taking days off against Leftys and playing Napoli at 1B and EE DH.
I hate us. Seriously.
We need OBP and power, so we trade one of the two guys able to provide that?! For what??? So Jeff “I just put in one the worst full seasons EVER” Mathis can get more playing time?!
Gimme a break.
Rebuild?
It is no secret that the Angels are not a power team… they are a station to station team without a leadoff hitter… so I dont know what that makes them. Now if they can get rid of Rivera.. Matthews Jr. contract comes off the books after next season I believe..
Maybe Arte comes up big time and steals Pujols away from STL… an Angels fan can dream right.
Nooooooooo… not Podsednik.
No way it was a nothing guy. Im sure the Jays gave up something good for Nap. If it was so cheap to get him im sure the Red Sox would have got him or many other teams.
It’s Vernon Wells!
My head just exploded. Really.
WOW! Look like it’s Vernon Wells HAHA. Thanks for taking that massive contract off our backs Angels!
The Jays will almost certainly be paying almost ALL his salary.
Yeah that’s right their paying 100% of his salary to play somewhere else.
I didn’t say 100% of his salary, but yes, I expect they are paying a fairly substantial amount of it. Wells’ contract has widely been considered one of the most untradeable for several years, so for Nap, I expect they are paying most of it. The Angels are being dumb, but I can’t imagine they are being THAT dumb.
I would have thought some salary relief and a prospect would be more likely.
That’s not true. There would be no mileage in that for the Jays. They’d effectively be giving the Angels their CF and high eight-figures for Mike Napoli.
Yeah, that makes no sense. If he performs like last year he’s still a 7 figure player.
not necessarily.
If Vernon is owed say, 22 mil a year on average.
The Jays can pay 7 mil per year.
Vernon can possibly restructure his contract to defer 5 mil per year.
The upfront cost of Vernon for the next 4 years to the Angels just became 40 mil.
they can create a trade chip simply by restructuring his contract.
This has to be a trade for prospects, right? If they were to pick up another old OF in Wells, Toronto would have to pay most his salary, and that isn’t really what the Angels need. I’m fairly certain the Jays aren’t giving up Bautista, and really, who else on that team would the Angels be trading for???
Ken Rosenthal
Source: Blue Jays Vernon Wells heading to Angels in Napoli trade.
No friggin way! Awesome!!!
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
You are getting salary relief! 🙂
VERNON WELLS for MIKE NAPOLI?
WOWWWWW
Why does Toronto keep adding catchers?
I would not be surprised if the Jays flip Napoli to the Rays
Napoli will be their DH/1B…which he is perfectly suited for.
Except he isnt a good enough hitter for 1B or DH. He’s good because he’s a great hitter for a catcher.
Mike Sciocia is the most overrated manager in baseball.
Vernon Wells !!! What ! What are the Angels doing ???? If this is true, wow, I want to see the money, this could be a crazy trade.
Nooooooo!! They’re all gonna laugh at you!
AA is a wizard!!
4 years, $86 million left on Vernon Wells’ contract.
Wells scheduled to make $23/$21/$21/$21 million for the next four years. Enjoy, Anaheim!
This. Is. Awesome. How much of Wells’ contract are the Jays eating?
I am absolutely stunned. Absolutely stunned.
How much money are the Jays sending?
So much for salary relief!
VERNON WELLS
I know a lot of Jay fans are going to be coming in here saying how bad of a deal this was, but I absolutely love it. Vernon Wells is highly overrated and his defense has been getting steadily worse over the past 3 seasons (he’s been one of the worst CF’s in the game for 3 straight years). He’s inconsistant year in and year out and his contract is ridiculous. I can’t believe AA got someone to take his salary, add that to the fact that I actually like Napoli this seems like a huge win for the the Jays, at least to me. The Angels were desperate after having a terrible off-season, so it was perfect timing for the Jays to try and get rid of Wells’ horrendous contract.
Slow down there…Jays are going to have to eat a large portion of the contract. If the Angels were foolish enough to take it all on, you would be getting Jeff Mathis instead of Mike Napoli.
I doubt they will be eating A LOT of the salary, as it wouldn’t make a ton of sense to trade Wells just to trade him. The main part is to get rid of that salary, and while I think they will be eating some of the salary, lets not pretend like the Angels are going to be getting Wells for 5Mil a year or something.
Oh yeah. The Jays have GOT to be paying a lot here. But how much? They’re have EXTREMELY wealthy ownership (not that you’d know it from their payroll). They may be willing to eat a lot.
But at a certain point, wouldn’t you rather just keep Wells than pay most of his contract and not have him? I guess we’ll see..
No one is saying it’s bad for the Jays. WTF are you talking about?
I really don’t think any Jays fans are going to say this is a terrible deal…
Wells’ contract is maybe the 2nd or 3rd worst in baseball history. Literally an example of an untradeable contract.
He’s a decent hitter when he’s healthy, but not elite.
I agree, I just think some Jays fans really like Wells and will not like this deal…Nobody here has said that yet, but I know there are fans out there that feel this way (on other boards). Sorry to put words in peoples mouths.
What Jays fan in their right mind would be saying this is a bad deal? This is an awesome deal.
i will be surprised if there’s one jays fan complaining
I never minded the big contract, mainly because the Jays keep saying that money is no object for the Rogers organisation. What did concern me was an ageing CF whose consistency disappeared.
This is a shock, because I never thought another team would take on that contract and that Wells would be a Jay for life. Now that it’s soaking in, can’t say I’m too disappointed or too happy that he’s gone. Sadly, his contract overshadowed the not-inconsiderable productivity he brought to the team. Won’t be too easy to replace.
I’d be shocked to see a single Blue Jays fan be unhappy with this deal.
Wow didn’t see that coming!!!!!!
Jays better be eating a whole bunch of loons. 🙁
Wow! Well so much for rebuilding. Lets see how much money is exchanged.
the big question is who is paying what of Wells salary. if the Angles pay it all(or most), I love it!! the Jays have been wanting to get rid of that contract for while. that is so much money the Jays could use to spend!!
11- $23 MIL
12- $21 MIL
13- $21 MIL
14- $21 MIL
I just hope they aren’t stupid and use it to sign Bautista long term, or your back with the exact same problem.
There has to be cash exchanged right?
Otherwise I’m ready to call Reagins the dumbest GM in baseball.
As a Mariners fan, I like this.
malking room for Vlad ?
folks this post adds no information without at least a BALLPARK on how much of wells’s salary the jays are taking on. until that comes out, who cares?
Who cares? Whether money was included or not that might be the most untradeable contract in baseball.
It’s fascinating to see A) how much the Jays are willing to eat to get rid of it and B) how much the Angels are willing to pay for 4 years of Vernon.
win win for Jays even if we take half his salary!
Napoli for Wells! Love it. For those saying Napoli’s value is high is because he can catch and hit FALSE! He makes our pitchers worse when catches and couldn’t stop a wild pitch if his life depended on it. Couple years ago the umpire continuosly made poor calls, when scioscia went out to talk to him he said Napoli was to big and he couldnt see the pitch. Sure he’s a plus offensively except in clutch situations. Overall Jays are a poor team and cant afford Wells contract and the Angels needed a big bat for the lineup. Good Deal Both Ways.
Jays are a poor team? You’re happy about acquiring Vernon Wells? OOOK.
You clearly don’t know anything about the blue jays and their ownership and market size.
Mike Scoscia is that you?
Lol here here for you raising your payroll by 21mill.
Wait I’m so confused…don’t you already have a pile of broken-down outfielders? Hunter topping that pile? So how could you POSSIBLY be interested in Wells?
This makes so little sense for LAA, even with the Jays chipping in for the salary. Napoli is a young guy with a great bat, and Wells is….wells. Major kudos to the Blue Jays on this one.
If the Angels wanted to pay 21 mil a year to an OF, they would have signed Crawford (a much better player). So before Jays fans get super excited about this deal, lets see how much of Wells’ contract the Jays are going to be paying. I will guess the Jays are paying about 7-8 million of his contract per year, but that’s just me throwing out a guess.
I’d be alright with that. That still leaves the Angels on the hook for around 15-16mil a year, correct? Still way too much for Wells.
I don’t disagree. Regardless of the salary relief the Jays are giving in this trade, I am not jumping for joy. Of course, I am one of those Angels fans who thought letting Nap play and hit would be a good idea. How much the Jays pay determines how much I dislike it :p
Yeah but signing Crawford for that much money … you’d STILL have the $5.3M that Napoli got in Arbitration on top of Crawfords salary. The Angels were already at $101M in payroll prior to this move, so even if it’s a salary swap for this year thats $18M extra and puts Angels right back up to the $119-120M payroll mark!
any word, did Wells sign off on the trade? he does have full no trade clause. at least according to mlbcontracts.blogspot.com.
Wells also has the ability to opt out after 2011 season, but with all that money owed that would be highly unlikely because he wouldn’t get close to that on a new deal.
So much for the Angels rebuilding theory. I guess Wells waived his NTC?
Dear Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: Hahahahaahahaahahahahaahahaahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaahahaahahahaha
Anything anyone is saying about how it doesn’t make sense for the Jays to take Napoli….it doesn’t matter, they got rid of Wells. You have to imagine AA made this move because the Angels were willing to take a fair portion of Wells’ contract on. That is the main reason for the trade in my eyes, they might as well throw Napoli off a bridge and they still win this trade.
The fact that Toronto got a useful player in Napoli, who I actually like for Wells and his terrible contract (YES I KNOW TORONTO WILL BE EATING SOME OF IT, CALM DOWN ANGELS FANS) is a minor miracle.
Jays and Angel’s fans I’d wager.
This totally sets up Bautista to play right field now, Davis centre and Snider left.
The hunt for a 3 bagger continues.
Eric Chavez perhaps, or a big market guy (Wright???)
Angels are mad. Hey do they want to take Capn Rowand too??? Call the Giants!
Now if the Cubs could trade Soriano to LAA for like nothing…..that would complete the offseason for me.
Jays paying half and I think it is fair enough. My thought has always been the team trading the bad contract should pay enough of the contract to make the 2nd team pay about market value for the bad contract.
I think Wells could get 10 million+ a year right now. Now that I type that I am leaning towards the Jays needing to pay even more. It will be interesting to see when the numbers come out.
Yeah but $5.3M for Napoli with another Arb year left is WAY to much too for a poor defensive C.
Poor defense at C is acceptable if they have a decent bat. Brian McCann comes to mind, even though Napoli isn’t the offensive player McCann is. My thinking is if wells is being paid at or near his value, and the Angels have a serviceable backup, then it is a win for the Angels.
great deal for the Jays, especially if they move Wells without paying any of his remaining salary – $23 million this year is just crazy. The Jays outfield of, Davis, Snider and Bautista looks good to me.
This is how the Angels reallocate the money that they wanted to spend on Crawford and/or Beltre? Wells is good, and all. But $21 million a year for a 32-year-old center fielder (even though I assume Toronto will eat some of it)!?
It’s a great day to be a Blue Jay fan! This will give them a TON of flexibility going forward, as long as they’re not eating too much of that contract.
If the Angels were smart they’d keep Torii Hunter in CF and move Wells to RF.
Burjous is in center. Torii is in right. Wells is going to be in left.
beat me to it
While Bourjos is an awesome defender, not sure they like his bat enough put him in CF full-time next year. I could be wrong though.
Bourjos should have been better than he was in 2010. that .204 AVG came with .228 BABIP. he had .314 AVG/.364 OBP/.862 OPS in AAA for 2010. he had .293 AVG/.346 OBP/.798 OPS for minor league career. although from what I read last season he did have some trouble with LH pitching. I remember looking him up last season when I was playing fantasy baseball.
His bat is better than what he showed at the majors last year, though I wouldn’t necessarily expect the type of numbers he put up in the minors – he played in notoriously offensive-inflated leagues. However, his defense is so off the charts, it’s worth keeping him in the lineup every day.
But he is a fast hard nosed player. Scoscia LOVES these guys. I think he will play more than he probably should.
I have to say, this was probably the worst possible offseason for the Angels. They couldnt get Lee, Crawford, Beltre, or Soriano, so they just go after an overpriced outfielder. Not a great business move. Maybe they could’ve saved for the draft? I dont know, but lets hope that Rogers Centre has the same effect on Napoli it had on Buck.
And who says Jim Hendry makes the worst moves….see Cubs fans!!!
This is a great trade for the Jays. This opens up Rajai getting regular time playing and opens up the future for Gose in centre without Wells’ contract blocking the way. Great move by AA
Gose isn’t a lock to even make the majors so I doubt this move was made with that in mind at all.
Hmmm…can’t agree….look at the contract given to Davis. Option in third year….you can project Gose into majors for third year if he does one year in AA and one in AAA…option can be used if Gose needs an extra year.
and Rivera? NoooOo!
Wells can also opt out after the 2011 season, but with all the money owing to him that would be unlikely.
Holy cowwww
The rest of MLB, look out. The AL East has grown to a four-headed monster now, with the Orioles starting to catch up. This could get scary for ya’ll.
I’m okay with it as long as it turns out to be Wells for Napoli, Rivera and at least $30 million
regardless of what type of hitter Wells is, he was making too much money to allow the Jays to have the money to spend elsewhere and build a contending team. this is a great day for the Blue Jays!
Wells IS a good hitter.
False. I wish people would figure it out that TO is not a small market team.
Ok, the plot thickens. Looks like we dumped Rivera too. Looking a little better Angels. Nap and Rivera for Wells and tons of salary relief on Wells’ contract? That might not be too terrible.
So the Angels now have two overpayed outfielders whose defenses are overrated. Great deal for the Jays unless they’re paying ALL the salary for Wells
Word out now is that Juan Rivera going to Jays in the deal too. That would equate to about $10+ in salary combining Juan and Napoli. I’d put money on it that Angels are paying the full $23M “if” they are taking both Rivera and Napoli’s salary on!
I will take that bet. No way are the Angels taking on Wells’ horrific contract 100%.
I’m liking this better and better for the Jays, and I’m not even a Jays fan UNLESS they are playing against the Yanks.
If Rivera comes with Napoli I don’t see a lot of salary relief going to the Angles but I do see a little bit.
I’m reserving judgment until I find out how much of Wells’ contract the Angels are assuming. If we’re paying him the whole amount, then I would love to play poker with Arte and Tony…MAN are they on tilt!
LMFAO which team in there right mind would even want vernon wells to play for them
even if they were paying him 5 mil a season
I’m sure pretty much every team in the league would take Vernon at $5M per season.
Nice attempt at a joke, though.
agreed
Probably a handful of teams for only $5M.
Let me break this down for everyone.
First, I love Napoli. One of the most underrated catchers in baseball. His defense needs some work but his offense, for a catcher, is outstanding. wOBA and wRC+ don’t lie. With that out of the way …
The Angels are in a bind. They have a player in Napoli who is significantly above average at catcher but decidedly average (or below average) at 1B or DH. The team had a choice to make, either start him at catcher or let him man the DH slot. It was clear to those that follow the team that Scioscia was not comfortable with Napoli at catcher. And when you have Mathis, Conger, and Wilson it’s tough to argue that if you want defense at C Napoli was the odd man out.
With Napoli not catching he could expect to see the bulk of his AB’s at DH with maybe some spot starts at 1B to spell Morales. Keep in mind that the Angels already have 4 outfielders for 3 positions. Under a normal rotation Mike might get 130 games at DH/1B while rotating with Abreu, Rivera, and Morales. For those 130 games the team could count on wOBA of 360 or so. He comes at a cost of $6m. Right or wrong – that’s the situation the team was facing.
Instead of going the DH route the team opted to trade him. We don’t know the haul yet but it will be something. My guess, it will be something decent. Couple B level prospects most likely. Additionally, the team frees up $6m that they would have paid him in arbitration. Finally, the team has about 130 games they need to fill at the DH spot.
They could just rotate in Rivera/Abreu from LF. Not a terrible plan if both return to 2009 form. But not great either. Instead, the team should be looking at Manny or Vlad – taking that $6m they saved from Napoli and applying it to one of those guys.
You start Rivera in LF when facing a lefty (288/333/500 career) and Abreu in LF when facing a righty (267/377/478 in 2010 or 305/414/524 for his career). The other guy gets some reps at DH when the primary DH goes down. That’s relatively solid performance out of LF
Now for the primary DH. It has to be Vlad or Manny. I love Manny. His bat is amazing (notwithstanding his 2010 Chicago stint). The guy is a clown and a tool but he can still swing it. Even in a down year he provides more offense than we would get from Manny. Vlad is a great guy, one of my favorite players, and had a great season in 2010. Not as good with the bat as Manny but certainly a great guy. He’s not a lock to produce more than Napoli but I would say the odds are in his favor.
The Angels will be better with an offense that includes Manny or Vlad and subtracts Napoli. The team doesn’t raise payroll or lock themselves into a big commitment. And they get something of value in return. This is a win.
Going back to the beginning. The bigger win would have been to play Napoli at C and then bring in Vlad or Manny. But since this wasn’t going to happen, plan B (trading him) is the next best option.
Not gonna lie, I didn’t read it all. But I will give you a “like” for the effort.
And while you were typing all that you missed on Wells coming to the Angels and Rivera going to the BJs.
Nice try though.
In the time it took you to write this, it became outdated. Time for a re-write 🙂
Wow… depending on how much Jays eat up if any salary at all, this deal would be a steal. AA is a god! I say, he should running the Leafs and Raptors as well!
However, I am interested as to who will play center. There is a gaping hole there unless AA sees Davis who can fill that gapstop?
Rivera is owed 5mil, not sure what Napoli is at…around 4-5? That’s 10mil Toronto is taking back, if in fact Rivera is also in the deal. I can’t see Toronto eating much of Wells’ contract with those two coming back.
I think Tony Reagins just won The Contest.
WOW how did Bluejays execs pull this one off!! I thought getting rid of the terrible contract of Alex Rios was awesome but to actually get a significant return for the outlandishly aweful Vernon Wells contract is simply STUNNING!!
WHAT WHAT! I don’t know if this is good or bad! If The Blue Jays eat most of Wells salary, this might actually be a win-win. Angels get a good OF and hitter in Wells (trust me he IS an upgrade in the OF over Rivera and Abreu) and the Blue Jays get a good hitter, that’s all he is, he’s a horrible catcher, in Napoli.
C’mon Angel fans, we didn’t need Nap anyway, we have Bobby Wilson and Hank Conger. Wells is a major upgrade over Rivera. Abreu can DH, and we can sign Vlad to platoon with him. Get a lead-off hitter and DAM, this offseason isn’t shaping up too bad.
You call Napoli a terrible catcher, but also remember that Vernon Wells has arguably been the WORST defensive CF’er in the game over the past 3 years.
dude you must have fallen off the short bus if you believe that statement
Where did this even come from, great job for the jays, AA could be a genius after this deal. What if the Angels take on all the contract, this could be incredible for the jays.
good trade for jays 🙂 gotta get rid of molina and find a 3b. i assume its snider/raja/bautista of now
The way it’s shaping up i’m going to guess that EE is going to be at 3B, unless Toronto signs an OF’er and moves Bautista back to 3b. I’d say Napoli at DH/Bautista in RF/EE at 3B/Lind at 1B at this point, which i’d be fine with. There are no options at 3B really, unless Toronto was dumb enough to try and get Michael Young and his ridiculous contract out of Texas, which I don’t think AA would have any interest in.
I thought the new contract for Davis looked a little weird being two years with an option in the third. Structured as if AA wanted Davis around until Gose is MLB ready.
Napoli AND Rivera? this gets even better for the Jays. Rivera is underrated. if Rivera can do what he did in 2009 that would be awesome!
Rivera’s underrated? How’s he underrated? The guy’s terrible at baseball
The guy is terrible at staying healthy. He IS NOT terrible at baseball. He’s had 4 seasons where he played in at least 120 games. In those seasons he produced:
2004 – 307/364/465
2006 – 310/362/525
2009 – 287/332/478
2010 – 252/312/409
2010 was a very rough year for Rivera. Outside of that, when healthy, the guy is good for an OPS over 800. He only earns $5m. He’s very solid and very underrated.
Scratch the 04 and 06 numbers. Too long ago. I’m just not impressed by .800 OPS or less for a LFer who is terrible defensively.
They are presented only to show that he is consistent when healthy. As for being a bad defender UZR disagrees. He’s a career +7.4 defender. 2010 he was slightly below average. In 2009 he was + glove.
I think you can reasonably say that he is an average to slightly below average defender. He is injury prone. He also has show repeatedly that when healthy he’s good for an OPS between 800 and 850.
For what it’s worth – there were 8 guys that had at least 500 PA’s and an OPS above 800 (and most of those guys are worse defensively). I would suggest that decent defense and an 800 OPS for $5m is a pretty solid value. Just keep him healthy and give him regular playing time and you have a solid player.
if he can put up numbers similar to 2009 he could be good.
he had .252 AVG in 2010, but also .261 BABIP. in 2009 when he had .287 AVG he had .281 BABIP. he has career .283 BABIP so he should be able to maintain .280ish AVG.
140+ games could have again 25+ HR.
I have no idea what he is like on defense, so can’t comment there.
AA must have nudes of everyone in the Angel’s front office and ownership.
OK … with the update of Wells coming over.
It better be with Toronto paying 60% of his salary. Otherwise this just became the worst move of the off-season. It will be indefensible if the Angels are paying anywhere close to all of Wells’ salary (or if they aren’t taking back Rivera + Abreu + kicking in money).
Somewhere in OC
Mike Scioscia: They traded one of my catcher?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
The real question in the deal is, how much money is Toronto sending to the Angels?
Angels are getting Kyle Drabek as well.
lol….Yeah I bet they are.
Reported by the OC Register, Kyle Drabek is headed to Anaheim. I’m assuming this means the Jays aren’t eating any salary.
uh….if Drabek is going the other way then I am really not liking this deal.
I checked the OC Register’s website. There’s no such report, even with the article having been updated as to the trade’s return.
Sorry don’t have time to find it again, Dan Woike OCR via Twitter, sounds like no money exchanged, just Napoli and Rivera for Wells and Drabek.
Are you high right now? The claim that Drabek is involved is ridiculous and you are dumb for either making it up or believing that it is true.
Robert – link?
the Jays wouldn’t do it if Drabek was involved. not unless LA also puts in top level prospect. that would be stupid, even to get rid of Wells contract.
lol
yea sure
This is amazing for the Jays and AA is a genius if they don’t have to pay anything for the contract…..
Juan Rivera Type B Free Agent at the end of 2011 season
Yep, just adds a little OF depth to the team which isn’t a bad thing imo. He can still hit a bit and plays decent defense, not expecting a lot or anything though.
So now the Angels have three CFs in Hunter, Wells, and Bourjos? That’ll be a very good defensive OF at least.
Except only one of those guys can actually field the position anymore.
really? how many golden gloves is in that outfield now?
Oh, RIGHT! I forgot how important past awards were! I guess they should sign Ken Griffey Jr. up too.
no i want Jeter
With Toronto taking a ton of money off of the books for years to come, does this open them up to making a huge play next off season going for Prince or possibly Pujols and a top pitcher? They are saving a lot of money with this deal.
That would be awesome.
Alright, everyone. Time to place your bets on how much salary the Blue Jays eat on this deal.
I’ll weigh in first with $46MM, effectively making Wells a $10MM/year player for the Angels. And if my figure was the over/under on what they’ll eat, I’d go with over before under. Coming off a 4 WAR season is nice, but doesn’t make up for the 3 WAR he accumulated over the previous three seasons.
Edit: This was pre-Rivera news.
-C
It doesn’t appear any money will be consumed by Toronto. VErnon Wells has an opt out clause for the remainder of his contract, this means it’s not guaranteed money. Toronto will have to make up for it in prospects, Kyle Drabek.
Yeah, because we all figure Vernon Wells is going to opt out of three $21MM seasons because he can make more on the open market.
The money is guaranteed by the club. Wells just has the right to refuse it (which would be even more idiotic than the post I’m replying to).
And where did you pull Drabek’s name from?? He’s not mentioned in any report, at all.
-C
THis has nothing to do with if Wells would opt out or not, the fact that he can does not make it guaranteed money, therefore Toronto technically cannot absorb any of the contract.
They could still pay the Angels $46MM as part of the trade. In the trade, it’s just money, and there’s no designation whom it will go to. Read how trades are worded…it’s Team A trades Player A to Team B for Player B and XX money. The opt out changes nothing, unless you can cite me a source that says otherwise. At which point, I’ll gladly eat my words.
-C
with the money Wells would be getting 12-14 it would be unlikely for him to opt out. he wouldn’t get neat that as a free agent. Wells might have to cancel the opt out for the Angles to be sure though maybe.
That’s right where I pegged his value as well. If he hit the market today he would be looking at about a 4/$40m type deal. And that’s at best.
If Toronto kicked in less money then they scored a coup or the Angels are landing someone significant from a minor league/prospect perspective.
Only 41mil off! So close.
To the Jays fans talking smack on the Rays..good luck with that trade. In a couple of years when we’re just reloading with our 13 picks in 1st/ and supplemental 1st rounds, you can make fun of us for losing out on Napoli…good riddance , you can have him. He isn’t a good defender and really isn’t worth a crap for anything more than 25 HR’s which you would have got with Wells anyway. I’m sure you’ll still have to eat part of Vern’s contract too or Angels wouldn’t have made the trade.
No one’s talking smack about the Rays, man.
Settle down.
the jays arent that far behind the rays in # of picks, and to boot they have the finances to atleast keep the prospects around long term.
So do we. We just don’t waste money signing guys to $120 million contracts that don’t deserve it. All our young players are under team control for next 5-6 yrs. and Crawford was here for 8 yrs. and he was good but not $142 million good…that was ridiculous. They can have him for that price.
Says the future crappy Ray team that can’t even generate league average revenue and force to cut their payroll
LMAO
GG
And who is your team??? And yeah..we’ll be real crappy in the future…lmao… You’re as bright as a 2 watt lightbulb. Grow up and stop trying to instigate fights. You must be REALLY bored.
Suuuuree…Carl Crawford is far worse than Vernon Wells
Not worse than but neither on of them or Jayson Werth for that matter is worth the kind of money they’re making. The FA spending has gotten way out of hand.
well our 6ish 1st/supplemental picks will be ready too and with our payroll that can easily double yours… we should be just fine k thanks
Payroll doesn’t equal championships or even playoff appearances. Could care less if the Jays top $100 million..doesn’t mean anything on the field.
says the rays that lost pretty much 2 and 3 hitter lmao and half of bullpen LMAO
GG
The bullpen arms have been replaced except for the closer and honestly..Jake McGee is gonna be a stud, so not worried. As for Crawford..I think we’ll be fine with Jennings,Zobrist and Joyce and if the reports locally of Damon and ManRam signing are accurate, I’m anything but worried about losing Pena’s .198 batting avg. We’ll miss his defense but, I’m sure they’ll be fine with Dan Johnson.
Payroll doesn’t equal championships or even playoff appearances.
The New York Yankees disagree with you.
Yeah, but the Mariners don’t.
Who was smack talking? Who cares if the Rays missed out on him? Not me…Napoli knows how to walk too, which is something this Jays team really needed as their team OBP last year was .312, which was still below what Napoli posted at .314, which was the worst of his career. He’s been above .350 in every single one of his other full years, and i’d expect him to post at least a .340-.350 OBP next year.
Personally if I were the Jays, my first phone call would be to the Rays to see if they were still interested in Napoli. The Jays don’t have a pressing need for him (they could alternate him around 1B/DH/C and that would work out alright, but that’s not what I would describe as a NEED), and I suspect this deal was much more about getting rid of Wells and his contract than it was picking up Napoli.
Maybe you get off the phone with the Rays and decide, eh, that’s not worth it; I’d rather have Napoli. Or maybe you go “CHA-CHING!” and send him packing. Either way, I definitely make the call and find out.
Don’t see them pulling that off within the division. If they get Rivera along with Napoli, I think they’ll try and move him and keep Napoli. I really think it was a mis report because I can’t see the Rays going after Napoli when they’re all in on Damon and Manny.
The Angels OF has got to be the oldest OF in MLB now…holy smokes…
Hunter/Wells/Abreu
Abreu will probably shift to DH now though, but that is a LOT of negative UZR there folks. Even Hunter is on the decline and has been below average in negative UZR along with Wells.
The Angels got A LOT older with this move, all while clogging up their future payroll in 2012-2014. WOW!
Angels use to have one of the best farm prospects in the league 3 years ago, and they are ALL gone except for Trout…and NOW they just got older???!!!! Hmmm … It ain’t looking good longterm for the Angels over the next 5 years.
Ummm … not really.
No one knows what Wells will do in LF. To assume that he can shift from CF to LF and be decent isn’t some crazy stretch of the imagination. Same goes for Hunter’s move to RF. No reason why he can’t be very good there.
Finally, they have a guy named Bourjos. He was all-everything defensively coming up through the minors. Then he logs under 200 PA’s and manages to post a UZR of 16. That’s insane. His UZR/150 was 45. His UZR rating was good for 4th in all of baseball for CFer’s. As a counting stat it’s even more amazing since he was just behind guys with 3 times as many opportunities. His UZR/150 was twice as good as the guys above him.
Bourjos won’t be that good going forward. Small sample sizes contributed to his stats – no question. However, there is also no question that he is special defensively. Sitting in between Wells and Hunter I think the Angels OF defense will be just fine.
One more thing … BA just ranked the Angels system as #9 overall. There is much more on the Farm than just Trout.
they have this guy named bourjos that will most likely play center, he wasnt a september call up either
while I agree that the Rays missing out on Napoli is being overstated by Cobby Box, your summary of the plethera of Rays hopefulls fails to acknowledge that the Jays have a similar futures outlook – 7 first rounds this year, McGwire, Lawrie, Stewart, d’Arnaud, Hechavarria, Collins etc. That combined with a great front office leaves the Jays looking as good if not better than the Rays, long term.
Also you have to look at the prospects in the minor league system which the Rays are rated #1 or 2 (swapped with K.C.) by almost every publication..I don’t see the jays anywhere near the level the Rays are at in terms of player drafting,evaluation and development. Good luck to them, just don’t see it.
The jays farm team has went from one of the bottom five minor league systems to one of the top 10 minor league systems in just over a year since AA stepped in. With i think 7-8 more first round/ supplemental picks this number is most likely to increase.
I know they’ve made major strides and they are much better than they were but there is, as of right now, a large gap between them and the Rays. Simply because the Rays have been on this “plan” for 5 yrs now where as the Jays have been at it for 2 yrs. All the Jays fans are jumping me for defending my stance but I’m not the one that was calling names and saying the Rays got screwed. I was defending my team like I would expect any true fan to do.
Ya but that’s because most people who post have no idea what they are talking about. And obviously the Rays system is better than the Jays system, but if they continue on this path, they will sooner or later pass the Rays because the Jays have more money to spend on scouting and drafting then the Rays do.
Well..bottom line is both franchises need to put butts in the seats DESPERATELY.
I think the difference is that if the Jays were winning the division they’d have no trouble whatsoever filling the dome.
Anybody who puts ANY farm system over KC’s farm system is ridiculous and should not be considered a credible source.
Collins? Tim Collins? Not only is he not in the Jays’ system anymore, he was traded *twice* last season (to ATL and then to KC).
Wow. My mind just exploded.
Holy crap.
The Angels traded for Vernon Wells yet wouldn’t pay for Crawford! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Wait, wait! Lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol! Hold on while I catch my breath! Lmao rofl!!!!!
This is the post of the night. If the Angels are absorbing anything close to Wells’ entire contract then they should boycott this season and demand Reagans head. I was fine with passing on Crawford at $20m/year but I am nowhere close to being fine with taking on Wells at anything more than $10m/year.
Unless Drabek comes back this will go down as the worst trade in at least a decade.
Sarge has returned!….In the form of Vernon Wells!
I can’t believe this was just on the site an hour ago come back and Vernon Wells has been traded, man that happened fast.
Wells to angels. Hunter to left or right field? Good pickup for angels. Not good for us A’s fans
How exactly is this good for the Angels?? An $86MM contract (God knows how much Toronto will eat, but he’ll still probably be overpriced), the potential loss of Rivera (Napoli is meh for either team, who really even cares about him), and Wells going from one of the most hitter-friendly parks in the game to one of the least hitter-friendly parks. That’s what we’re looking at, from the Angels perspective.
-C
Napoli is a bigger loss than Rivera. Rivera isn’t very good any more, more suited as a 4th OF. Napoli could actually be a good DH, and an above average hitting Catcher if they chose to put him there. To say Napoli is meh and mention Rivera as some kind of loss isn’t very smart.
Rivera may be done, but he’s moving into a great park to hit in. That alone could easily change his fortunes. He’s signed for one season at an affordable rate and he hits lefties better than righties (AL East has the most LH pitchers). Same goes for Napoli, as far as the park and LH is concerned, but he’s not a solution at C.
-C
A’s shouldn’t be worried. For 2011 this is a lateral move at best. For beyond, it’s made them worse (assuming no cash exchanged)
I take back my comments about the jays not contending this season if they actually don’t have to eat any of the contract. Awesome move by Anthopolous, a true baseball genius.
How does this move make them contend this year? It doesn’t really make the Jays better, other than maybe defensively with Davis in CF rather than Wells. Also gives them a little more pop with Napoli, but this deal sets them up for the next few years financially…they could make a big play at one of the big name FA’s over the next few years now.
Just thought of this… Angels outfield is filled up everywhere, does this mean anything for Trout?
Trout would be ready … at the earliest … some time late this year. More likely you are looking at 2012 call up. That’s Hunter’s last year. I expect Trout to be manning LF/RF full time in 2013 (the guy will only be 22 then).
Yeah, it means they are not going to rush him. And even with Wells and Tori, it still won’t block Trout as he is the best prospect and supposedly great defensively so he’ll play center. Wells/Tori will be playing LF when Trout is ready and Bourjos, if he is a good enough hitter will be at RF. You guys could have quite an outfield in a few years.
Trout will move to LF or RF. Bourjos is rated much higher defensively. At least at this point …
Don’t worry bro, Trout ain’t going nowhere if Reagins has any sense in him.
And the worst off-season award goes tooooooo!!!
That’s right, the Angels. Congrats!
I dont see why ppl are literally complaining this a good move! go look at his stats that beasty,idc wat u guys say but its a good move!!!!!!!
I can’t remember who but someone called this two months ago and everyone ripped him to pieces
I remember that too, it was a article, and i happened to like it.
So I guess it depends on how much money is “Some money”.
Yep. I’m reserving judgment until I see. I think that if AA has cleared that contract, it’s a victory for the Jays, but I expect they’re going to be footing the bill for some time now. It’ll still clear up a fair chunk of change, though I don’t think anybody should get their hopes up TOO high. It’s a good, forward-looking move though.
Anybody else wondering if AA’s going to try to flip Napoli now? Do they really need him?
“Some cash” better be along the lines of $60M… holy crap
So Napoli and Rivera are around 10Mil or so right? Wells contract has 86Mil left….How they can say “some money” seemingly so nonchalantly blows my mind….
Don’t forget the Angels still have to pay $10 million to GMJ. WOW what a debacle contract to take on
As a Jays fan I was pretty happy about this. Not because of Vernon as a player or a human being. It certainly wasn’t his fault Ricciardi gave him that contract. Vernon’s a class act, an excellent team guy, great in the community and a very good ballplayer when he is hot. The Angels got an excellent ball player in this trade and any legitimate baseball fans in Toronto will be wishing him nothing but the the best in Anaheim. Thanks for the memories Vernon.
Nice post…it’s nothing against Wells as a person like you said, but his contract simply became an albatross. I think he still has the capabilites to put up solid offensive numbers for the Angels, his D could improve if moved to a corner OF position too. If the Angels only have to pay him 10mil a year then this is a fine deal, anything more and they’d be over-paying imo.
Ricciardi get unfair blame for Wells’ contract. By all reports he wanted to trade Vernon and ownership said no.
“I want to trade him”.
“NO”!
“Then I want to sign him for 7/$126 mil !”
Is that how it went?
Yes, they did. Vernon is a class act. It’s not his fault that contract was thrown at him, and that he couldn’t quite live up to it. Who could, though? Best of luck in LA, VDub!
Great post
yes the royals do, the rays have a lot of good pitching prospects. sounds like you are a little bitter that crawford, soriano, and pena are gone. get a box of tissues
I’m going to guess Toronto gives 20MIL in the deal, making Wells’ contract around 16.5mil average over the next 4 years.
If Vernon Wells can be traded then so can Alfonso Soriano!
Yes he can….here’s hoping he and ARam have bounce back years and we unload at least one of them for prospects.
cf – davis
lf- snider
rf- rivera
3b-bautista
ss- escobar
2b-hill
1b-lind
c-JP
DH napoli
cf-davis
ss-escobar
3b-bautista
rf-snider
lf-rivera
1b-lind
2b-hill
dh-napoli/EE
c-JPA
Escobar should be in he 2 spot. Snider is more of a power hitter who can drive in runs.
not sure who takes over the 3 spot. Bautista with his power ability should bat 4th. people are probably going to disagree with me, but Lind could bat 3rd. he had a horrible season in 2010, but he did have good numbers in seasons before that as well as in the minors. Snider is an option, but I think he would be better down around 5/6.
I would go with something like..
CF- Davis
SS- Escobar
1B- Lind
3B- Bautista
RF-Snider
2B- Hill
DH- Napoili
LF- Rivera
CA- Arencibia
i dont think he was making a batting order loll… simply goin by Of’s , Inf’s Then C and Dh .
AA – you are a god. If they jays manged to do wells for napoli/rivera trade and didnt include more than 30 mil this is a clear clear win for the jays. Absolute headscracher for the angels imo.
Fans will be fans..
Understand and agree with the move from an organizational standpoint, but to be glad Wells is gone.. especially for Mike Napoli, is asinine. Still can’t understand why his contract, which was signed relative to the market at the time (see Beltran, Soriano, etc.), bothered fans as much as it did. Big win for team payroll and the corporate wallets it affects, much bigger loss in terms of talent and value as a player/person to their organization. If the Jays were competing any time soon (most fan predictions as early as 2012), this was a terrible trade. Wells’ worst offensive seasons have been/will be much better than Rajai Davis’ best. Ticket prices remain unchanged and Jays fans will continue to pay for a diminishing product on the field, so the only people that should be celebrating are the suits who run Rogers.. and Alex Anthopoulos who, thanks to the move, will surely receive a nice bump in his bonus this year.
This frees up millions to let Toronto be more active in the next free agent markets, which should let them sign a much better bat than Vernon Wells ever was. Even if they don’t, it still frees up money to spend on prospects in the next 4 years a long with signing over-seas talent which AA has been scouting like crazy. Bottom line Vernon Wells is closer to a 10mil player than a 20mil player, Toronto also added two legit Major league bats that will help them next year. Davis plays much better defense than Wells in CF too, so that will be an upgrade even though Davis’ bat isn’t nearly as good. Wells was not going to be a big part of the future for this team regardless, so unloading his huge salary is a plus for now and going forward.
Yeah, that comment above was very shortsighted.
Napoli and Rivera aren’t exactly ‘bargains’ (combined, in the neighborhood of half the amount Wells was owed next year). Injury-plagued seasons considered, it’d still be difficult to find more productive center fielders over their career. A healthy Vernon Wells can easily produce a 30hr 90+rbi season at that position without sacrificing too much defensively. The return players are salary dumps themselves and don’t figure into the future, there aren’t any prospects in the deal, and one can assume the ‘cash considerations’ will be in the 4-6mil per year range (we can tack that on to Rajai Davis’ salary over the next 3 seasons for fun), so unless this is setting up a Colby Rasmus deal or the thought of developing Arencibia as a catcher and Lind at first was that much of a problem, all these ‘free resources’ can do is sign the next Jason Werth or take an even bigger gamble than the original Wells contract by giving a mega-deal to Bautista. This was a move that benefits the bottom line and the contract had very little to do with the organization’s willingness to spend on the open market. Toronto will have no problem carrying a nine figure payroll if or when they believe they are ready to compete.. which isn’t any time soon after this trade.
The Jays aren’t sending any money; this is a great trade for the Jays. I don’t see how you think that Wells was going to help this team in 2 years when it is ready to compete. This allows the Jays to sign big ticket free agents and make trades for guys with higher salaries. Amazing over all trade for Toronto.
this clearly opens the door for Vlad to return and the Angels have a nice lineup with Wells, Tori and Vlad in the middle..at least thats my opinion anyway
Abreu isn’t gone…..
As a Jays fan I was very happy to hear this. Not because of Wells as a player or human being it certainly isn’t his fault Ricciardi gave him that contract. Vernon is a class act in the community, the clubhouse and when he is hot he is as good an outfielder as there is in the game. He should bring lots of joy to the Angels. Thanks for the memories Vernon. Us legitimate baseball fans in Toronto will be cheering for your success in Anaheim you deserve it. Halladay and V-Dub meet in the 2011 World Series wouldn’t that be awesome.
with all the OF/DH/1B/C type plays the Jays have, they could move someone. Napoli flipped? Napoli as an offensice C probably would get the most back in return.
wit the Jays not contending in 2011, they should see what JP Arencibia can do getting significant playing time.
Why would they move Napoli? To be honest I could see Napoli putting up similar production to Wells if he plays full-time at DH, plus he gives them depth at both Catcher and 1B in case there are injuries.
Arencibia is the C of the future. he was great in 2010 at AAA. he had .301 AVG/ 32 HR last year in AAA. he has proven all he needs to in the minors and deserves at least a chance at the starting C.
since the Jays are not contending in 2011 and with the numbers Napoli could put the Jays could get someone to help towards the future at a more needed position, like 3B.
I have the impression D’Arnaud is the catcher of the future. Napoli can bridge the two years before D’Arnaud is major league ready. Expect Arencibia to be used as a trade asset and let Napoli go as Type B in two years time.
Rays posters have it right. It is about collecting good picks with good players to fill funnel with high ceiling players.
We traded Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera for Juan Rivera, yes!
This is the worst trade I can remember over the last decade! Even with money coming back. It simply doesnt make sense. There was no positional upgrade, no cost saving, so prospect hording. It simply was as stated above Juan Rivera and Napoli for Juan Rivera +cash. This is infuriating.
This trade is so bad that unless drabek or a similar name comes back Regins should be fired on the spot.
I’ve been saying that about Reagins for a while, but I can’t see your this is the worst trade.
For one, Juan Rivera doesn’t have the offensive numbers Vernon Wells has, and the change of scenery might to him some good. I know his contract is massive and despite current reports I can’t believe they didn’t take any money at all for him.
And even still, no more lazy outfielder, no more streaky hitting, no more bailing on the ball in the batter’s box, and this ENSURES that Abreu will not be out in the outfield where he will be allowed to watch balls drop behind/beside/in front of him.
While not ideal, I can’t see how it’s the worst.
Wells is no better than Rivera.
Not according to any part of their stats from last year, at least. I’ve watched Wells play, he’s not half as lazy in the field as Rivera (who had 5 errors in left last year), and several he SHOULD have had that weren’t “technically” errors, and his approach at the plate which is extremely sloppy. We’ll see if his last year’s stats aren’t flukes, but I’ll take a change gladly for now. I may eat my words later, but there’s still the plus that this move frees up roster space AND my favorite part, keeps Abreu out of the field because his defense is flat abysmal.
The Jays presumably wouldn’t trade drabek for Upton or Grienke, I doubt they would do it here.
That’s just not true. You either like Rivera too much or Wells too little.
No, you trade Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera for Juan Rivera, who you’ll be paying 86 million dollars over the next four years. Congrats, Angels fans!
This is not a bad deal and, depending on just how much the Angels have to pay Wells, this could be a pretty good one. I like Naps, but I always felt his offense was overrated. He’s a guy who has to be rested which makes the 30 HR plateau all but impossible for him. I’ve also felt that Rivera is WAY overrated. Defensively, Wells is similar to either Rivera or Abreu while offensively he is potentially much better. Napoli’s shoddy defense is also a thing of the past. Honestly, not too bad.
Wells is not a better offensive player than Abreu.
Abreu is overrated. And I’m glad this will keep him to DH where I won’t have to watch him drop balls all season long. So frustrating. Not to mention strike out every other at-bat because he takes the first two strikes right down the middle, fouls off a bunch of junk pitches and then gets struck out swinging anyway.
Yeahhhhh….you’re gonna have to back that up with something. I’ll take a healthy Wells at the plate before a healthy Abreu. Any day.
Abreu has a career OPS of .888 and a career OPS+ of 131. Wells? .804 and .108. Abreu has been a better player than Wells, and it’s not even close.
What an unbelievable shock this is. I guess the joke has finally been answered: who would be stupid enough to assume Verson ‘effen’ Wells’ contract? Answered.
well i guess we know why it was so important to lock up rajai davis, and why anthopolous was going on about his ability to play all 3 outfield spots
never EVER thought i’d see the day
AA is a Genius!!!!
1-R.Davis CF
2-Y.Escobar SS
3-A.Lind 1B
4-J.Bautista 3B
5-T.Snider RF
6-A.Hill 2B
7-M Napoli DH
8-JP C
9-J Rivera LF
If Lind and Hill can hit this year thats a pretty good lineup, along with some good SP
EE on the bench!
Now we can move forward as a organization rather then have Smells tale up 1third of our payroll.
Juan Rivera in left batting 9th? Have you seen him in the batter’s box? Clearly not – dude bails on every pitch. Not to mention, he’s a lazy fielder. Have fun! (Oh, and don’t forget Napoli’s tendency to go on long streaks – and not GOOD streaks either, did you see how many times he struck out last year?) Don’t count your chickens TOO fast.
You’re assuming that Jays fans cared if we even got ANYTHING back in return for Wells’ contract being off the books. We’ll gladly take slumps from Napoli and one year of Rivera, thank you very much. Oh, and the eventual compensation picks they’ll net us.
Cheers!
As far as the Angels go though, they were already looking to dump similar money into Crawford, and again into Beltre – and those moves wouldn’t have freed up any of the roster. Not to mention, this keeps Abreu out of the outfield as well (THANK GOD). So I don’t see it as a fail for the Angels either. But I still definitely wouldn’t be batting Juan Rivera ninth in any lineup.
I would also say the same about dumping Rivera – though not for contract reasons, I was just glad to see his name attached to a trade.
I think that the eventual compensation picks are an overlooked part of this deal. Somewhere earlier it was said that Rivera would be a Type B free agent after 2011, I know that’s not set in stone, but I would gladly take that. Plus some extra catching depth never hurt.
Edit: We can also collect picks or let Napoli walk after the next season, so this trade makes significant long-term sense for the Jays.
Rivera won’t get offered arbitration. He’d accept for sure.
Aha i don’t think you should have Rivera doing more than be a utility-type of guy. The dude is double-play machine.
This is a good deal… 14 doesnt like Naps and Rivera has needed to go for awhile… Word is the Jays are sending some cash in the deal as well. So funny how everyone is on the money aspect of Wells contract… is Crawford or Beltre worth the money they are getting?
They are both better players than Wells and Crawfords entering his prime whereas Wells is on the decline discounting his decent season last year!
Holy cow did the Angels lose this one, they have to pay Vernon Wells how much for the next three years? and they gave up a great bat in Napoli and a good player in Rivera? Win for the Jay’s
too bad to hear that the Jays are taking on the Cancer known as Rivera and his salary while giving up cash in the deal. Rivera is not a AA type player and will probably be dealt quickly…hopefully. The best case scenario would be to deal Napoli to the Rays for a prospect and Rivera to anyone that wants him.
What are you talking about?
6:47pm: The Jays might not be sending any money to Los Angeles in the trade, tweets Shi Davidi of The Canadian Press.
LADIES AND GENTLE SIR ALEX ANTHOPOULUS
“The Jays might not be sending any money to Los Angeles in the trade, tweets Shi Davidi of The Canadian Press.”
If this is true….LOL
I wouldn’t be laughing if it’s true, that would mean the Jays would be giving up a load in prospects. Kyle Drabek for starters.
Kyle Drabek is going nowhere, stop with the ridiculous speculation.
It’s a straight up trade as far as I know. Wells for Napoli and Rivera
I thought the whole meaning behind a straight up trade was one person for another…?
Touche. Well my point was, no prospects lol
One of the dumbest things I have read today.
“A load” of prospects for Napoli and Rivera….and by “load” you mean in gross weight, not quality, maybe
This deal makes no sense and would only work in mlb the show.. WOO AA And there might be no money aswell lol
Actually I tried he Show it wouldn’t trade Rivera for Wells not even including Napoli
Haha. Can’t wait til MLB 11 comes out.
Actually no he didn’t lol
No money?
This can’t be. This would move from the worst move of the off-season to possibly the worst move of the last ten years.
Let’s review:
1. Vernon Wells has significant NEGATIVE equity. He’s worth no more than 50% of his remaining contract. And that’s being generous.
2. Mike Napoli has significant POSITIVE equity. He’ll earn around $6m this year and you can collect picks for him after the next off-season.
3. Juan Rivera has some NEGATIVE equity. Although that figure is small. He’s playing for $5m this year and is probably worth $3m coming off his 2010 season.
Napoli + Rivera should net something positive by themselves. Wells by himself should require the Jays to kick in maybe $40m. Put them together and you have a situation where the Jays should be pitching in at least $45m and take back Napoli and Rivera.
I’m getting sick just thinking about how bad this could be.
NO MONEY?!?!? come on this is awful….please tell me then there is another player coming to the angels… how can Reagins think this is a good idea?!
I think the no money in return is speculation at this point. I still don’t think the Jays will be sending a ton of money in return, just doesn’t make a lot of sense. I’m still sticking with 20mil in return.
there was an interview with vernon about 2 weeks ago where he said he was not worth the money he was getting paid, and by all reports about his amazing character, it is feasible that he renegotiated his contract to more appealing terms
No it’s not.
If the Blue Jays aren’t sending any money in this deal, they have hit the jack-pot! And as a fan of the Mariners, I love this move! It means blocking at least 21M/YR of the Angels payroll flexibility through 2014. At this rate, the Angels are going no-where fast. 🙂
coming from a mariners fan, that’s not saying a alot
Sounds crazy, but whether this deal includes money coming the Angels way and how much probably makes the difference between the Angels saving (some small amount of) face or having the worst off-season in recent memory.
If anyone needs me, I’ll be in the kitchen with my head in the oven.
Napoli/Rivera for Wells is simply amazing. Even if cash is included AA has done what I didn’t think any GM could do. Trade a guy making 20+ million a year for 4 years who is barely a #6 hitter.
We’re going to be weak next year but longterm its brilliant.
Come to think about it, I liked the Napoli-Upton rumor better
But Wells is such a great guy. They’re easily getting $15M+ in intangibles.
Yes. 15m+ in intangibles and inopportune infield flies.
careerwise, wells and rivera have very similar numbers
rivera .280/.328/.461
wells .280/.329/.475
both seem to be a little shady defensively
chuck in napoli (.251.346/.485) and this deal has gotta be a win for bjays, especially if they dont have to kick in salary
Throw out playing time and power numbers and you have a point.
i’ll give you that, rivera has never hit 30HR’s which wells has done 3-4 times i believe. but still, this deal was a perfect sell high. wells had a decent bounceback 2010 which undoubtedly enticed the angels and gave the jays a chance to get decent return for him. the timing of the deal was perfect for the jays
We truly don’t know what to expect from Wells. I am optimistic though that he’ll put up good numbers when healthy. On the other hand, I know exactly what to expect from Napoli and Rivera. Jays fans are in for some disappointment.
i guess, but at least if they disappoint we arent on the hook for over $20mill per season for the next 4. even last year wells was a little disappointing, he cant hit with RISP and hasnt for over 2 years, most maddening part of his game by far. and get ready for weak infield popups to first base. he can be effective offensively for sure, but hes not the type of hitter that you want to depend on day in and day out and in high pressure situations
napoli and rivera are hardly perfect, but at least we’re getting somewhat fair value for our dollar now
Please, don’t even pretend like you guys stiffed the Jays. LA is now the proud owner of the WORST contract in all of baseball. You guys got robbed. AA just put on a display of Hustle-nomics 101. You do realize you are paying Wells more per season than Crawford is getting right?
Silver lining to this trade is probably that this means the angels will be getting manny or vlad.
just to point out the obvious, that is
Well I hope you like Vlad because Manny just agreed to terms with the Rays.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a baseball God.
and he obviously hates the Angels
And he is a Jays fan.
And thank god, i didn’t wanna see him sign with the angels…(a’s fan by the way)
Well, went back to the main page and saw tampa agrees to terms with manny, so guess this means angels will probably get vlad….probably
Guess it’s not that obvious since both signed with the Rays….
If they do, what’ll they do with Abreu?
manny offically signed with tampa…along with damon
Yeah, i posted this literally 2 seconds before i saw that haha
Nope, not getting Manny. He just signed with the Rays.
No money? hahahahaha
Hold on….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
LAAAAAAAA just sunk their next 4 years, as an A’s fan I’m stoked they just tied up EIGHTY FOUR MILLION on Rondell White, I mean Vernon Wells! HAHAHAHAHA
Stop sugar coating it….it’s 86 million not 84
I gotta say, looking more and more like a two-horse race in the west! i looooove it
i gotta say, your silly
Wells was the only serious roadblock in AA’s building plan, especially with Gose, Marisnick, etc. pegged as future CFs. I’m amazed he actually managed to unload his contract so quickly. Don’t underestimate how much more roster flexibility moving Wells gives the Jays (not to mention likely better defense in center). Wells was a good player overall, but his contract handcuffed the team. Now that’s history.
Abreu Wells Hunter best offensive and defensive OF in ML History
in 2002-2006
Is it safe to say the Angels’ offseason just went from bad to worst?
from debacle to cataclysmic
This isn’t that bad… Crawford got 142 million -Werth 126 million. Vernon’s remaining salary is a bargain compared to that.
I’m sorry what?
Um, fail.
Ah what lol
…..no words can describe the fail of this post
epic fail
Just no..
Dave Cameron is doing a FanGraphs chat right now live, for any that are interested.
Do these endless Kyle Drabek comments bother anyone else? Every page there’s one idiot throwing Drabek’s name into the ring, so I’m just gonna make this clear for you. AA wasn’t going to trade Drabek for Greinke or Upton, so there is no way in hell he was trading him for mike napoli. Even with wells contract that’s ridiculous
This is the greatest news for Jay’s fans!!!!I have never had anything against Wells, as he is very professional and upstanding. That being said, one of the worst contracts in baseball resides with another team. Don’t kid yourselves this was nothing more than a salary dump and some great versatility with Napoli, that will be a tradeable asset or draft picks down the road. Rivera? -Angels way of unloading their garbage- Who cares give me that anyday to get rid of Well’s contract and persistent eggshell body-type injuries. Enjoy the steady decline Angels
i remember when jays fans were bagging on AA after the wallace/goze trade. there’s no way you can’t love AA now.
I don’t think AA has ever been bagged on by Jays fans. One questionable move with the Marcum/Lawrie trade, but man that guy has made some amazing moves as GM.
This has a too good to be true feeling to it right now. Loved Vernon’s attitude, and even hustle, but the contract was impossible to live up to.
Holy cow. If there’s no money involved, then this has to be at least a misdemeanor.
Take this for what it’s worth, but Jon Morosi is reporting on his twitter that no cash is involved. twitter.com/jonmorosi
Maybe no money involved!?!?!? That is REDICULOUS. They traded Napoli AND Rivera for the pleasure of paying Vernon Wells over 20 mil a season for the next 4 years?!?!?! This makes no sense. Angels need a new front office.
Take it for what it’s worth, but Jon Morosi of Foxsports is reporting on his Twitter that no cash is involved.
No cash involved. Confirmed by a few sources.
LOL ANGELS!!! You might as well have done nothing and the off-season would look better than it is looking right now.
Wow. Just Wow! The Jays dumped Wells and get a descent hitter or two in return. AA is staking a claim to GM of the year early. And what the heck are the Angels doing this offseason? From the outside it looks like they’ve fallen off their rocker.
And people criticize Jim Hendry????
this does make Hendry look like a baseball scholar
Dam, why did believe Reagins was smart enough to not take Wells whole contract. Now we’re probably not getting Vlad or Pods as well. And we’re paying more for Wells than Crawford would ask for. Sigh.
No were not. Its 86 mil over 4 years. With Napoli and Rivera off the books thats 74 mil. I see both players going downhill and were pinched off in the angels lineup. Arte has the money to spend. No worries about that.
Soooo we still have money for Pods or Vlad? I sure hope so
probably, just no space for them
the claw and antler group is dancing! o they are dancing!
they can dance all they want right now, but by next september we shall see who will be dancing into the playoffs
So if there is no cash involved, can ANYONE explain how this deal works for the Angels? I’m trying, but I’m not seeing it. As for AA… slow clap.
it’s official, no money going to LA, YES!!
AA, 2011 Executive of the Year already?
EGAD…….Career OPS+ 106 and 118 for 108 AND 75M or so.
Worst offseason ever……..Angels, and it’s not even close.
Most lopsided trade since the advent of free agency?
Hey, you think a Dice-K for Weaver trade could be in order?
Maybe Drew for Trout?
Despite that contract, Wells was a great Blue Jay, as a person and as a player (when healthy). I wish him all the best with the Angels.
I dont understand how the Angels make these deals. Gary Mathews Jr., Torii Hunter, Vernon Wells and they miss on the really good players.
Becca – I get what you’re saying about this possibly not being the worst deal that Reagins has made. Your logic confuses me a bit though. I don’t know if this is the worst deal he’s made, maybe, maybe not. But if he made the deal, as you suggest, due to the notion that a change of scenery may do Wells some good he really needs to stop and re-evaluate his decision making and criteria for making a trade. You simply don’t take on $86 million dollars on a contract because you “hope” the guy you’re getting might perform better for you than he did for his previous team. That’s insanity.
Also, if he made the trade because he was tired of seeing players (who?) bailing at the plate, or if he was tired of streaky hitting (iirc Wells is a streaky hitter), or simply to get Abreau off the field, again he needs to stop and take a look at what he’s doing. None of those reasons are enough, even if they’re all combined, to take a chance on Wells. Especially if you’re giving up a descent hitter in Napoli and a guy who, going forward, isn’t going to be terribly worse than Wells himself.
Frankly this trade really is a bad one for the Angels. They probably got worse because of it and they definitely got more expensive. They were looking at a potential payout of approx. $20 million dollars in 2011-2012 for three player seasons of Rivera and Napoli. Now those guys are gone and they have a player similar but worse than Hunter and they’re on the hook for about $66 million more than they were yesterday.
Bad, bad move.
Cubs fans must be pissed Jim Hendry didn’t call up Reagins to trade them Soriano for Brandon Wood
OK, so AA traded Wells for Rivera and Naopli, didn’t have to give up any prospects or other players, and.. only had to include 5MM inCash?!?! AA must have some very interesting photos of Reagins from the Winter Meetings LOL!!!!!!
yes, they are tony hitting the snooze button on the alarm clock
Now i am convinced that Alex is a genius!! getting rid of that albatross contract is huge for the Jays, u Jays fans have such a bright future!!
He’s definitely a good GM. But getting rid of that contract was more common sense than genius.
Finding someone to give that contract to is genius
lol, who is any better as a GM?? Any GM would want to unload that contract but i dont think just any GM could actually pull it off…Alex only seems to make smart, sensible moves. As an A’s fan, you should be ecstatic that the Angels hugely decreased their payroll flexibility.
You’ve misconstrued my meaning. I have a lot of respect for Alex Anthopoulos. I won’t call him great, nor will I ever call *any* GM great. That word is too subjective when it comes to GMs. I *will* call him very good, though, and say that I am a big fan of what he’s done with the Blue Jays since taking over.
But let’s be honest. There is nothing “genius” about finding a sucker to take that contract. Especially when the team taking it was desperate to try and make a big move before spring training, and doesn’t seem to even care how many bad contracts they have at once. It’s a fairly obvious match.
It’s a common sense move for the Blue Jays. No more. No less. That doesn’t diminish the success of the trade, but that’s what it is: Common sense.
I’m not sure how you knew I was an A’s fan. But you’re right. I *am* really glad the Halos took on that contract. I have no idea why you’d think that I wasn’t.
EDIT: And now we know that the Angels were the ones who originally went to the Blue Jays, asking about Wells. That’s per Anthopoulos, himself. So it’s not like this was some kind of master plan.
And again: This is not meant to downplay the success of this trade in any way. Kudos to them for pulling it off without having to eat more than $5 million! That’s some fantastic negotiating.
Well at least it is clear you are not a genius.
I’m wounded.
But I’m at least smart enough to realize that doing something that makes PERFECT SENSE does not qualify someone for genius status.
This move, plus Manny/Damon to the Rays opens up Vlad to the O’s.
Vlad signs with Baltimore for 1/$7MM by within the week. Shortly thereafter, the O’s trade Luke Scott for a middle of the rotation starting pitcher.
Nobody is giving up a mid rotation starter for Luke Scott, sorry.
I know, right? It’s sort of like how the Blue Jays are never going to get someone to take Vernon Wells off their hands, even if they eat a portion of his contract. Oh… Wait…
Anyway, I said Scott and prospects. A fringe team might be happy to take Scott and some future help for their number four or five starter, who would easily be the number three in Baltimore.
That depends on the rotation. I think it’d be a good move for the O’s to trade Scott for a decent young starter.
Im just throwing darts around. tell me does this describe the LAA offseason. Slept through the offseason therefore missing out on all their target FA, woke up, took a dump, called it a good offseason and went back to bed?
Except when you take a dump you’re getting rid of waste, not collecting more of it.
Slept through the entire offseason, woke up, traded your Playstation 3 and your car for a Rob Schneider DVD box set, and went back to bed.
like times infinity!
if he even hits just 30 homers next season with a solid OBP and plays spotless D at whichever position he ends up at it is…in the world we’re in
A friend of mine died last week. Lifelong, hardcore Red Sox fan. OH, did she rub it in when they stole Crawford out from under us. She was literally laughing in her deathbed when we lost Beltre. This is her. Somehow. I just know it is.
So it’s 5Mil in return…for a total of 15mil coming back to Toronto. Still a massive win for the Jays, obviously.
OH, we’re getting 5 mil? Oh. Well then.
v rfpeiaogunb [4 lkuhalkguhiuq98
Where do you get the 5 mil in return?
That was in story for a split second and now it’s gone, odd. I’m hoping it’s no money in return, but would be perfectly fine with $5mil.
I can’t even wrap my head around this trade. This is absolutely, unfathomably mind-blowing.
Just…wow.
MLB 11: The Show
Awesome
Is it April 1st or something???
The Angels should’ve traded Reagins for AA instead
Toronto would need additional compensation and in the end, still highly unlikely lol
One idea to wonder is the possibility that Vernon Wells might have, in addition to waive his no-trade rights, agreed to opt out of the contract after 2011 (per contract information) to facilitate the deal. Even if this is the case, 23M for 1YR of Vernon Wells is much less than 1YR/5.25M of Rivera and the arbitration years 3 & 4 of Napoli (in terms of trade value). Any way you figure, gotta love this trade for the Blue Jays.
Wishful thinking. Why would he do this?
It’s just an idea based on his recent statement, “I would totally agree that I’m not worth that contract.”
In addition, it wouldn’t be completely ridiculous. For example, “Royals pitcher Gil Meche retired on Tuesday at age 32, walking away from a $12 million salary.”
Interesting. I think the strongest part of the entire exchange is Anthopoulos dumping the contract, one that was considered on every top 5 list as ‘untradeable.’ And to get Napoli in return, as well as another ML Player? He just earned random GM points with me as a baseball fan. I know I wanted to see Napoli in Chicago, and as much as I support franchise players, it should be fun to see Wells in another uniform. Too bad the Jays are still not competitive, I would love to see them in the playoffs.
So does this mean Bautista will play right?
CF-Davis
SS-Escobar
RF-Bautista
1B-Lind
DH-Napoli
LF-Snider
2B-Hill
3B-Encarnacion/??
C-J.P Arencibia
I think finding a 3B would make this lineup better and let Bautista play RF.
OR Rivera in RF with Bautista going to 3rd base.
How’s Rivera in RF? Could he hold his own defensively?
He can barely hold his glove defensively.
He’d be better in LF, he does have a strong arm but not great range. Bautista isn’t great defensively in RF either, but like Rivera he does have a good arm. Overall the Jays aren’t going to have a good defensive team either way, even though Davis is an upgrade over Wells defensively in CF.
That’s a really good looking lineup. Are you giving up on Encarnacion so soon?
I wouldn’t call it giving up since his bat is respectable but his defense is just terrible. I’d rather find someone who could actually field 3B, maybe Gordon Beckham or Chone Figgins?
This line-up is the fifth best in the AL East.
Anybody else get a feeling that Reagins isn’t done? this deal changes the rest of the offseason by making the top priority a speedster/leadoff guy. I have a feeling we could see chone back in anaheim soon
The way Reagins is working you’d be lucky to get Scotty Pods.
idk, reagins seems to make his big splashes through trades (usually level headed trades that heavily benefit the halos, clearly not in this case)
This the best deal of the off-season for any GM. Perhaps best deal ever. Hats off to AA. I cannot believe this.
Reagins: Was Wells more attractable because you weren’t dealing with Boras????….If true, this isn’t promising for the futures of Morales and Weaver either.
As an Angel fan, I’m seriously trying to understand the logic of this deal.
There is no logic….that being said though: what’s the logic in signing Crawford for that kind of money for 8 yrs or hoping that Beltre stays hot after his signing, given that his stats mysteriously drop off after he signs a big contract. That said, the Angels will be competitive and could very likely win the division in 2011. Why? because the Rangers lost Lee, the As don’t have enough thump in their lineup, and the Mariners…well…. But at what cost to the Angels???? Well, that’s where the headscratching begins.
Pretty sure, I would still bet on the A’s. They have much more depth throughout their whole team.
The A’s are puzzling…they might be good, they might not. They still need a big bat in their lineup.
Crap contract or not, bad trade or not Wells is still a good bat.
Signed,
Jays Fan
For Anthopoulos’ next move, he’s going to move faster than the speed of light, invent a perpetual motion machine, and calculate pi to its final decimal place.
AA may have created the biggest comments section on this website two years in a row now…pretty sure the Halladay trade had the most comments last year, this one’s already over 700
i think the adrian gonzalez trade went over like 900-1000 comments didnt it?
Oh yeah, forgot about that one…AA is still a headline maker though
Get rid of Reagins. What a worthless employee.
John Schuerholz is sleeping well tonight, because somebody finally made a significantly worse trade than his 2007 Teixiera trade.
GREAT day to be a Jays fan!
Wow. Just wow. Anthopoulos is a jedi. That’s the only explanation.
Finally, a post that makes sense. “Something something something sign-here”
The Angels have the oldest outfield in baseball now.
cool story bro
just stopgaps basically….1.red sox 2.yankees 3.Jays 4.Orioles 5.Rays
best part of this deal… the jays took rivera!
¡Que se vayan, juan
I feel like poor Vernon’s getting a bad rap here, when he’s not hitting 20-30 homers he has impressive gap power, he has respectable speed, and he’s never struck out more than 100 times in a season while being an average defender. I would have had no problem seeing him in Atlanta this season if not for his obviously bloated contract but hey Angels, at least it’s not Gary Matthews.
Jays are looking really really good this year. Their offense, bullpen(outside of no set closer which I’m assuming is Rauch’s job to lose?) and front rotation are going to be unbelievable. Whether or not Drabek and Litsch develop well and the defense will really show if they can keep up with the big boys in the AL East.
Nonetheless, loosing two solid starting players with power like Rivera and Napoli for one with no salary relief or prospects is never a good move. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wells feel like he has to prove himself but not a chance I’d personally want to take.
More than anything I just hate seeing “lifer” players leaving their original team after playing for so long in one place.
Vernon Wells has 7 WAR in the last 4 years combined. He’s really not very good and he’s getting paid like a superstar.
Wow. Rivera stinks, but I never thought I’d see the day when Toronto could dump that contract. Hats off to AA.
the stats don’t do Rivera justice, by which I mean he’s even worse than statistics could show. He’s easily one of the laziest ballplayers I have ever seen, inconsistent hitter, atrocious fielder… or as the Pittsburgh Pirates would say “the total package.”
He’s a throw-in in the deal. A 4th OF for the Jays and Reagins insisted the Jays take him.
I’m sure any Jays fans (including myself) are happy to take him to dump Wells’ contract. Wells was a decent player, but not at the price he’s making.
With all of the financial flexibility the Jays are going to have with this move going forward, one has to wonder if the Jays are going to extend Bautista and sign Fielder to platoon DH/1b with Adam Lind after this season. Check out this lineup that will definitely skew the way the AL East always plays out every year. Thought sliding Yunel Escobar over to 3b was creative. He definitely has the arm and athleticism. Even the bottom of their order all could be legit super stars. Blue Jays should be patient one more year, develop Hechevarria, OF Snider, and C Arencibia for one more year. I think that’s exactly what they are going to do as they acquired both C Napoli and OF Rivera as stop gaps for this season. and in 2011 put all the pieces together
CF) Davis
3b) Yunel Escobar
DH/1b) Prince Fielder
LF) Jose Bautista
2b) Aaron Hill
1b/DH) Adam Lind
RF) Travis Snider
C) JP Arencibia
SS) Adeny Hechevarria
P.S. or after 2014 they get Joey Votto!!
Pretty sure, Jose B. would be playing RF in that line up.
fair enough, still, the question remains. Who else will have the money to pay the prince close to what he wants and not have to worry about him being able to play 1b through the remainder of the contract?
Just because they have the money doesnt mean theyd want to waste on a 1b/dh , adam lind if he bounces back could put close to the production fielder does for 1/4 of the price, just doesnt make sense to waste cash on a soon to be dh Imo.
There are so many things wrong with that lineup. It would take too long to even get into it.
yes because there are so many things wrong with adding a player that averages 30 plus homers and a .400 OBP? It’s basically what they have this year plus Prince Fielder. I understand, more likely Bautista would stay at 3b and they would add an OF next offseason but I just liked the prospect of having three of their top position prospects the same year.
No, you’re missing my point.
Ok, I’ll try. Escobar would likely move to 2B, not 3B. Hill to 3B. Fielder wants big money and years- everybody knows his health will break down like Cecil. Playing on the turf would likely ruin his body, since it’s under so much strain already. Fielder likely wouldn’t sign in Toronto regardless.
Your batting order could use some tweaking in my opinion as well.
And so we’re clear, I am a Blue Jays fan.
we would never get prince fielder.
why not? What other teams are going to have the money/position for Prince Fielder? Toronto just cleared 80MM in payroll and will have even more. Fielder has made it clear he wants to go where he makes the most money. Who else can match that besides the Mets/Clbus, who would have to play him at 1b, something no team wants to do? Toronto can option him at 1b and DH, to make sure he transitions smoothly in health.
i don’t think we would get him is all. he’ll be over priced and i don’t think the blue jays would dish out the money he wants. it’s wishful thinking, but it’s not likely to happen.
One thing I will say about this trade for the Angels is this. There is absolute garbage in the free agency pool next season when it comes to power hitters, which they desperately needed. Ask any baseball executive and they will tell you Pujols and AGonz are going to get extensions. So that leaves Prince Fielder, a Boras client asking for 8 years and 200MM. If I’m an Angel fan, I don’t want to have to hope they can overpay for Prince Fielder next offseason. Look what happened when they “hoped” they could get Carl Crawford. That being said, there’s absolutely no reason why Reagins didn’t get money sent in that deal and why he gave away two solid major league contributors in addition
Vernon Wells career OPS is marginally better than Juan Rivera’s.
hey arte. the astros would like to trade carlos lee to you, and the cubs are offering up carlos zambrano!
This makes it seem like a Soriano trade is possible!
Good swap here. I think the Jays got a very slight edge in it though. Pretty even though.
Bad trade in for the Halos. They are giving up 2 good guys who combined for 41 HRs and 120 RBIs for a guy who hit 31 HRs and 88 RBIs. Angels should have gotten a good reliever or 3rd base prospect in this deal along with Wells.
This is an awful trade for the Angels. Wells’ contract is terrible, and he is barely worth half of what he is getting paid. The Jays are getting a good catcher and a good outfielder to replace Wells (not necessarily offensively) but Wells is on the decline along with Torii Hunter.
So is Napoli and Juan?
At least the Angels don’t have Castillo and Perez….
Looking at the numbers, the Angels essentially signed Rivera to an 80 million dollar extension.
Angels clearly won this trade they gave up next to nothing for Vernon Wells..granted it won’t make any difference in the standings the Rangers are still the better team by far. Hopefully the give Vlad a 2 yr contract that he wants
i doubt its worse than the Rays. honestly
a very slight edge? just a bit?
The fact that the Jays got out of such a ridiculous contract is really commendable. The fact that the Angels agreed to take it on is desperate. You have to think that this deal will come back to haunt the Angels in terms of things they won’t be able to do over the next few years because of having so much money locked up with Wells.