The Giants re-signed first baseman Aubrey Huff to a two-year, $22MM deal today. The contract pays $10MM per year and includes a $10MM club option for 2013 with a $2MM buyout. The deal does not include a no-trade clause, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Huff, 34 next month, hit .290/.385/.506 in 668 plate appearances for the World Champion Giants in a resurgent season.
The Giants inked Huff to a one-year, $3MM deal in January of this year, which turned out to be one of that offseason's top bargains after he finished seventh in the NL MVP voting. Given Huff's age, defensive abilities, and struggles in 2009, plus the robust free agent market for first basemen, the new commitment comes with plenty of risk at $11MM per year. Huff hired Ed Hayes as his agent a few weeks ago, clearly a smart move. Giants GM Brian Sabean told reporters that he got clearance to match an offer Huff received from another team.
Four of five MLBTR writers polled on November 10th predicted Huff would re-sign with the Giants.
Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports was first to report Huff's agreement today, while Tribune News Services added contract details.
Overpay, but it could work. I’d have drawn the line at 2/18. I thought Huff would stay in SF on a 2/16 deal… he just hasn’t had the consistency throughout the past few years to warrant an $11M salary. You never really know what you’re gonna get with Huff.
He is a great clubhouse guy. We wouldn’t have won the series without his play on the field and his presence in the clubhouse. Rally thong baby!
“he’s a great clubhouse guy”
If you have to resort to using cliches, you probably are rationalizing. I’d love for Huff to do what he did last year in San Fran, but let’s hope he doesn’t fall into old habits.
Can you base incentives off of a “great clubhouse guy”? $50k for every hot foot? $25k for evey “Hang in their kid you’ll get the next one”. An extra $50k for every pie in the face received.
Congrats to the Giants. Good to see them keeping the team intact for another run. An extra bat might help too.
Maybe teams should get a 26th roster spot for GCG, which could be anybody with the gift of making a clubhouse fun, easing tensions, etc. The rule, however, would be that GCG’s can’t play, and the top salary is $2 million. But they would be first at the top of the dugout steps to up-high a homer hitter. This way, every team could have one GCG, and could reserve the 25 roster spots for people with bad personalities but who can play the game.
It’s a cliche for a reason, clubhouse guys are a necessary component to any good team. Even if his production drops his leadership and ability to keep a young team grounded and relaxed is invaluable.
You are right, it’s a cliche for a reason. That reason resides in the fact that people need justification for saying things they can’t support otherwise.
I mean you can’t quantitatively prove hes not a great clubhouse guy, so its a great remark to fall back on when you have to justify a player.
Given that Giants fans are going to be watching him play, if they like the way he plays and puts butts in seats, then it’s absolutely a reason to give him more money. Fans like him as a clubhouse leader and generally find him to be an entertaining player. When it comes down to it, sports is still its own branch of the entertainment industry. And personally, I’d rather watch players I like than a great player who’s a total tool, sometimes even at the cost of marginal value.
You don’t need stats to prove/know whether a player is a positive or negative clubhouse presence. Just because you can’t quantitatively prove milton bradley is locker room poison doesn’t make him any less of a jerk. You can’t prove Huff was locker room glue, but it’s plain to see. He was a HUGE factor in regards to team chemistry. Numbercruncher fans just can’t seem to grasp the fact that intangibles are every bit as important as tangible stats, as proven by the Giants’ WS victory. Think it would have happened without the best chemistry in the league? Think they would have had that chemistry without Huff? Another intangible you simply can’t prove/measure, yet it is one of the most important and often overlooked aspects of the game.
No one needs to justify resigning Huff, the way he is viewed by fans and most importantly his teammates, as well as the shiny rings and trophy are justification enough. And you CAN quantitatively prove that he had a top 10 year at the plate in the NL. Overpay, yes. But I’d much rather see Huff get a couple million more than what stats suggest he deserves, than lose a team leader and some of the best hitting on the team.
This guy was run out of TB for being a jerk, complained publicly about his time in TB and BAL, and has played on how many 90 loss teams? Did he become a “great clubhouse guy” in one year?
To answer your question in a word, YES. I don’t know if he just grew up and matured or what, but all we’ve seen in SF is a great sense of humor and strong veteran leadership. He has mentioned that playing on a contending team for the first time in his career has rejuvenated him, as evidenced by his stellar offensive and defensive numbers this season. I know very little of his time in the AL, but if what you’re saying is accurate then apparently he has completely turned around in the year he’s been here. He is very well respected and well-liked by everyone in SF-fans, coaches, front office, and especially his teammates. You can ask any Giants fan, they will tell you the same.
Funny, Burrell is almost the exact same story. When he was in TB he was disliked by fans and teammates, regarded as a bust and a sourpuss, then came to San Francisco and did a complete 180. His numbers shot through the roof and he gelled with his teammates immediately. It may be hard for you to believe this based on what you’ve seen being a Rays fan, but Huff and Burrell were regarded as the veteran leaders on the team this year.
Funny, Burrell is almost the exact same story. When he was in TB he was disliked by fans and teammates, regarded as a bust and a sourpuss, then came to San Francisco and did a complete 180. His numbers shot through the roof and he gelled with his teammates immediately. It may be hard for you to believe this based on what you’ve seen being a Rays fan, but Huff and Burrell were regarded as the veteran leaders on the team this year.
The thong hasn’t worked out for Giambi lately…
The ring on Huff’s finger showed it works quite well for him..
Yes, I’m sure the thong is responsible.
Asinine remark. No one is claiming that a red thong was responsible for a WS victory. It and the guy wearing it kept the team loose down the stretch and in the postseason, a big reason the Giants were so successful.
Asinine remark. No one is claiming that a red thong was responsible for a WS victory. It and the guy wearing it kept the team loose down the stretch and in the postseason, a big reason the Giants were so successful.
It’s all about the rhinestones. Giambi’s was lacking.
We?
Why does everyone get so upset with people who say “we” when referring to their favorite teams? Who cares? I do the same thing too. I put alot of money and time into all of my favorite teams. It’s not like he is implying he played for the team. True fans invest alot into their teams, and IMO have the right to say “we” when referring to the team if they please.
Oh it’s ok when I do it, but when someone else does it I see it as an opportunity to feel better about myself by belittling them.
I used to think saying “we” was, at least very least, lame. …until I truly became a fan of the Giants in 1989. Going to games, listened or watched every game, was apart of every up and down, in short, got emotionally invested into the team. After all the “we” we’ve been through over all these years, I think using “we” is justified.
I wouldn’t have even minded giving him a 3rd year (though riskier in the NL) for $8-9 million. $11 million seems a bit pricey. I mean I think Dunn will only get maybe $13 million a year over 3.
No third year…Brandon Belt is just about ready to be called up.
The Giants site is saying there’s a 10MM club option for a 3rd year with a 2MM buyout, so there can be a 3rd year if it’s warranted.
Guess the guy has marketing value at this point which makes him a mandatory must sign. He’s at a point where his value is more to the Giants than anywhere else. Plus there’s almost some back dollars for being such value last year.
I can see the marketing there. I guess PAPI sending that box of thongs to the Giants’ clubhouse had value. Clubhouse perks, per se.
ya, he did finish somewhere around 6 or 7 in the MVP race in the NL. You could have won some serious cash betting anyone that would happen
Sabean heard from Huff that he got the 2 year, 22 million from another team and he’d stay in SF if they decided to match it. Can’t blame them.
Can’t blame this on Sabean right now though. He would have gotten heat for not resigning Huff. Other teams would have gladly given the same amount or more for Huff considering he got his numbers at AT&T. I think it’s a good signing with all the inflation and stuff…
Now they need to resign Uribe
Probably for something like 3/21 based on this deal. Yeesh.
Uribe is St. Louis bound!
OOOOO-REEBAY will be back in San Francisco!
2/22 for Huff? Are you kidding me?
At least his personality is not befitting of playing in a contract year; now to see if it was a fluke…
Way over paid for Huff.
Why is it that I’ve noticed how tight the Giants payroll is going to be in 2012 but our GM hasn’t? Obviously Huff might continue to hit well but if he has a bad season in 2012 we’ll be paying Zito/Rowand/Huff $45m to ride the bench. I am just not willing to risk that. Now we are forcing our hand to trade Cain or Jonathan Sanchez if we’re going to have any chance of fielding a competitive team in 2012.
$11M is high for Huff though you can’t complain with the season he had and what he meant for that team.
The chances of Huff living up to the contract is a 50/50. He may either prove hes still got it, or just decline sharply from here on out given his age and like the article said inconsistencies of the past few years.
Disagree.
He’s 34. He’s being paid to turn in two more 2010-level seasons in his decline years, ages 34-36. The likelihood of him of doing that is pretty low. It means that you’re saying he will be one of those who plays until he’s nearly 40. His 2010 production wasn’t so great that it could endure a dip and still stay at productive levels. If you had to bet your life savings on it, the high percentage bet is that he’s reached his peak this past season, and he is due to decline. Maybe he declines gracefully.
Not to mention he declined in the second half last year. He had a great year, but he’s no $11M player. We’ll see how this contract looks when he’s hitting .255 in July.
Huff also hit .247/.344/.403 for the first month of the season. Honestly, his slumps at the plate appear to be a product of approach as much as age. If Meulens (the Giants hitting coach) can keep an eye on it and Huff can sustain his improved walk rates at get on base at a .350+ clip, he’ll be valuable to the Giants.
He can’t anything with tilt or break. Â He cheats to get the good fastballs and is susceptible to good off-speed stuff. Â He’s getting old, his bat is slowing down, and I think you could make the argument that the NL started to figure him out in the last couple months of the season. Â He had a great year and was a big reason the Giants won last year, but he’s not capable of maintaining that type of offensive production.
He had one bad year. In 2009. Why are and everyone else saying that 2010 was a fluke year for him when the better case to be made is that 2009 was a fluke bad year for him. Regardless of age, according to him and the trainers he was in the best shape of his life last year.
While I would agree that Huff’s ’09 season can be considered fluky (mostly due to a .260 BABIP), I would say that Huff’s ’05 season was bad and his ’07 season was mediocre.
I clearly didn’t write that I expect him to play to his 2010 level until he is fourty, but I think there is still a chance he can produce similar numbers for two more years, but also there is a great risk it won’t happen
Fangraphs has Huff’s WAR at 5.7 in 2010. He’s not being paid to repeat that. If he were, he’d be making 20M+ per year. He can’t have another 2009, but if he puts up two more respectable years he’ll be worth the contract.
Dang, I was hoping for 2 yr 12-14 mill …Hope we still have some $$$ left!!!
We’re quickly pricing ourselves out of the market for lots of people. I think we need to find a short term option as SS (Hardy, Bartlett, Scutaro) to not tie up more for 2012-13. We need money to sign guys like Cain and Timmy once their deals end. This deal with Huff means Uribe is not back IMO
Uribe is next.
What do you think? 2/14?
Thong isn’t under MLB approved apparel. Selig will need to see it removed Aubrey, Selig will be checking himself.
EEEEEW!!!
I shouldn’ta read THAT over lunch!
I believe I felt that 2 yrs/$16MM with a club option and a $2MM buy out should have been their top offer. But 2/$22MM guaranteed…wow. They obviously are quite grateful to him for that WS title.
Is it safe to call this the first big overpay of the offseason?
There are plenty more to come.
The Joaquin Benoit signing would be the first.
3 years for a reliever that won’t be your closer at closer-type money?
To be fair, he could very well be the closer in 2012 when Valverde’s contract is up.
You want to bet on him being both healthy and effective then?
Didn’t everyone say that the 3 million given to Huff last year was an overpay?
It was an overpay considering the type of player he was. There’s no question that he turned out to be a steal at $3MM but at $11MM??? I don’t see how any other team would’ve come close to that. I guess the Giants wanted to get this done early so they can focus on Uribe and their other needs.
Reportedly, Sabean was given clearance to match an offer from another club, and did.
It was an overpay considering the type of player he was. There’s no question that he turned out to be a steal at $3MM but at $11MM??? I don’t see how any other team would’ve come close to that. I guess the Giants wanted to get this done early so they can focus on Uribe and their other needs.
I think its great that SF was able to keep Huff..I’m not exactly sure he was worth the 11 Mill but a 2 yr deal with an 3rd option is def something he deserved..I was hoping hendry would sign him for a 1 yr deal but alas its not too be. Hopefully He lives upto it for SF and doesn’t pull the Rowand
Is it even a question that the Giants overpaid here? Victor Martinez just inked a deal for less money per year.
That’s not true…. 4 years/$50MM comes out to $12.5MM per season, a full $1.5MM more per year. And if you think about this, deal works out to what could essentially be viewed as a back loaded 3 year/$25MM deal with Huff, which works out to about $8.34MM per season, which is commensurate with his previous salary when he was on the Orioles. In that sense it’s a fair deal.
Thanks for the correction. Maybe my Padres’ miser-goggles are getting the best of me here, but Huff may not even be worth $8 MM. In 2007 and 2009 he posted OPS of .778 and .694 respectively. He’s not exactly a defensive wizard out there either.
Yeah, that 5.4 UZR he put up this season was a real chocolate mess, wasn’t it?
He has a career -6.5 UZR at 1B.
There’s plenty on record about Huff being in better shape and being better conditioned to play defense, not to mention motivation relative to his years with the basement dwelling Rays and Orioles. I’ll take his more current numbers and risk SSS-itis than take innings from 2003-2006 that probably bear little relevance at this point.
Seems to be the trend with guys trying to rebuild value. I think Huff will work out. Something like 275/340/455 is what I expect. I believe he was over paid — more like 2/18 or 3/24 — but he is worth more to the Giants then anyone else right now.
if huff can get 2/22, what do you think jeter can get? i know they’re different positions, but his 4 year command doesn’t look so ridiculous anymore.
We’re talking about the Giants essentially averaging a guy’s salary out to his previous going rate after a bounce back season, plus rewarding him for carrying the team in their first world series title. Jeter just had, unequivocally, the worst season of his career, he’s 36 and coming off a 10 year contract that averaged $18.9MM per season and he’s basically insulted by an offer for 3 years at $15MM per season. I don’t think the situations are in any way comparable.
+1
Wow probably a most necessary move by the Giants, but what other team would have coughed up initially about 25 million for two years of Aubrey Huff on the open market? This could be a good move if he plays up to last years standards. Suppose overpaying the guy a little opposed to trying to short him a few million after he gauges the open market more is smarter. Huff was an emotional leader in the clubhouse and carried the team with his bat at times. You need any offense you can get with that amazing staff all coming back next year. A shame Zito and that massive contract is going to be regulated to 5th starter or long reliever. They could be players for Adam Dunn or saving up for a new Lincecum deal in the offseason. If Tim stays healthy and has a repeat year of last year (disregarding an awful August) then they better go all in on a new deal before his free agency clock starts counting down.With guys like Rowand, Zito and Huff on the roster, will they have the resources to lock down Lincecum to a deal mirroring Felix Hernandez’s but better?
Nope. Can’t wait to see Timmy in a Yankees uni!
HA! keep dreaming. If he ever leaves the Giants he will be Seattle-bound. Can you honestly see Lincy in yankee pinstripes? The guy’s gonna get his money but he is not a sellout
Nah, just playing around.
Haha nice thought you were serious.. I’ve heard many delusional Yanks fans who are convinced it’ll actually happen.. too funny
Yankee : We’d like you to shave your hair and stop smoking the chronic Mr. Lincecum your a valuable investment and we have a policy on no long hair
Lincecum: heck NO!
Lincecum will be a Giant for his whole career probably
Please. Money talks. The Yanks will just pull up a dumptruck full of cash and he will sign up. I hate the way they buy their teams but when they want someone they just throw money til they get there man.
Seems to be backfiring on them now with the whole Jeter thing.
HA! keep dreaming. If he ever leaves the Giants he will be Seattle-bound. Can you honestly see Lincy in yankee pinstripes? The guy’s gonna get his money but he is not a sellout
They will never be players for Adam Dunn. He doesn’t want to play in AT&T, and anecdotally, every time I’ve seen him play there he has been god-awful.
With all the guys in the outfield, and the potential need to slide Huff out to LF to make way for Belt, I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up moving Rowand even if it means eating some of his salary. So there is small relief available. Zito is truly unfortunate and remains one of the worst signings out there.
One thing about the Giants, though, is that they do right by their players, mostly. I mean, you know they just gave Aubrey Huff a 22-million dollar contract. That’s why we’re here. What makes you think they won’t pay guys like Timmy and Cain when the time comes? The feeling of myself and Giants fans I know is that the ownership can afford a larger payroll than they pony up for. If they simply let a guy like Timmy or Cain waltz away they will be universally reviled by the city of San Francisco. The pressure is really on the organization in that respect.
I think they’ve been gunshy about big investments in a franchise that still was in the “rebuilding stages.” They increased the payroll by $14 million from 2009 to 2010, and will likely crack $100 million this year with the big boost by playoff and merchandise revenues and a larger number of more expensive tickets sold.
A couple of years back bowtie said that they wanted to see Timmy and Cain to retire as Giants, and that they had money put away to make sure that that would happen.
2012 will be the big year, as Posey will be arb-eligible, and Cain, Sanchez, Wilson, and Licecum will all be arb-eligible or free agents. Huff and Rowand will be off the books, and Zito will have one year left on his contract.
Adam Dunn was smart to not take the Nats’ extension offer. If Huff deserves 2/22, Dunn easily deserves a 60MM contract at his age and level of production.
Dunn Can’t hit for average or play defense anywhere near Huff. Yeah chicks love his long ball but he can’t do anything else.
I’m still too happy about winning the World Series to complain about a slight overpay
bring Uribe back next or trade for one of Scutaro/Bartlett/Hardy
move Huff to LF and Brandon Belt will be at 1B and we’re ready to try for a repeat
I think its a little too early to slot Belt at 1B considering he never saw above AA ball. This contract is perfect because as Huff leaves, Belt would be ready.
Belt had 13 games in AAA Fresno. And excelling at AFL. I think he is ready to be tested at the big league level, but not ready to say he is ready to step in over Huff at 1B yet.
He saw 13 games in AAA. Not a lot, but he did well with the time given.
he played in Fresno and tore it up and tore it up in the Arizona Fall League
if he kills it in the Spring don’t be surprised to see him on the opening day starting lineup
I think its a little too early to slot Belt at 1B considering he never saw above AA ball. This contract is perfect because as Huff leaves, Belt would be ready.
Guaranteed 22 doesn’t mean 2/22 because there is a 3rd year option.
It could be a 9.5/10/10 with a 2.5 buyout for the 3rd year.
I think this is a pretty fair deal. You can’t really expect a guy coming off the year Huff just had to sign for any less than this, but at the same time it’s a good deal that provides security for him since there’s always a good chance that a guy his age could fall off a cliff, sort of like he already did in 2009. Every contract comes with its risks, but since Huff clearly didn’t take the market for all it was worth, so it’s not like he’s getting a ridiculous late career contract that he couldn’t possibly live up to or anything here.
He was the team MVP, a fan favorite on a team of charismatic characters and the Giants wouldn’t have had a shot at the World Series without his bat and glove. They overpaid by a couple of million but that big, fat ring on his finger and the NL MVP votes he got bumped up his asking price. So, whatever. Well done, Aubrey. You earned it after a decade of frustration and toiling in the cellars of baseball. I’m happy the Giants get you back.
Holy hell. A guy who was arguably the WORST regular player in all of baseball in 2009 just got 11 mil per year. They just paid Huff only 1.5 mil less per year for the SAME age seasons than Detroit is paying one of the top offensive catchers in baseball (this is his age 34 and 35 seasons, V-Mart’s covers his age 31-35 seasons). For another comparison, Huff career: .283/.345/.476; Martinez career: .300/.369/.469 – and Martinez provides that better production as a CATCHER.
Bill James projects .269/.348/.453 for Huff next season. This is a terrible terrible contract. 2 for 16 would’ve been FAR more reasonable (and even that would likely be an overpay) – Lee or Berkman or Pena or someone like that could EASILY end up outproducing Huff in 2011 on a what will likely be a far smaller contract.
Psssssssssst – Victor Martinez is a liability defensively, his power numbers have dropped again, his OBP lifetime is .838 to Huff’s .821. And I don’t trust Bill James as far as I can throw him.
I missed when Aubrey Huff started winning gold glove awards. He’s a decent 1B (by far the least important defensive position) but a disaster anywhere else – Martinez rates by most as a superior 1B, actually.No idea what you mean when you say Martinez’s power dropped again. Homers by season: 23, 20, 16, 25, 2 (injured), 23, 20 – seems to me he consistently hits around 20 home runs, his slugging has been between .465 and .505 over that time (last season was the second best of his career at .493).I don’t really care what you think of Bill James – I bring up that point because a projection system with a reputation of being too optimistic sees a huge step backwards from Huff. I don’t know what OBP lifetime you’re talking about means. Martinez has a better OBP than Huff (.369 to .345). Martinez has a better OPS, which is what I assume you meant, as well.I actually genuinely like Aubrey Huff. I think he’s a funny guy and, even as a Yankee fan, I LOVED when he showed up Joba Chamberlain when he was with Baltimore two years ago. I liked him all the way back in his Devil Ray days and remember feeling really disappointed when Lance Carter was taken for the ’03 All Star game instead of Huff. But, as has been pointed out, over the last 4 years Huff has been one of the best players in baseball, one of the worst players in baseball, very good and below average. That doesn’t sound like the sort of thing you commit multiple years at $11 million to.
I never meant to imply that Huff was a gold glove first baseman. I meant to say empirically that VM is more of a liability at catcher than Huff is at first. And Martinez doesn’t have any gold gloves either, so let’s just leave awards out of it altogether.
I meant lifetime OPS, you are correct.
And by the way, nearly perfectly quoting another source is kinda cheesy. FanGraph’s post today by RJ Anderson “In more generic labels, his last four seasons have represented those of an elite player, a below replacement level player, a star, and a below average player.”
And Bill James is off, on both sides a LOT of time. All predictors are. Injuries, age, soreness, crap teams, all these things play a factor that simply can’t be deduced months before they play a game. Just looking at the Giants this year – Sandoval – predicted .327. Nope. Posey – .270 avg and 11 HR. Nope. Rowand – .267 and 17 HR. BUZZ. Hell, James predicted .267 and 20 HR for Huff last year. Projections are hooey.
You’re right – I should’ve have attributed to fangraphs, didn’t even think to note that as I wrote it. No question Bill James’ predictions are imperfect – as are all predictions – BUT you can’t make signings based on magical ‘gut’ predictions for what will happen. The projections work because they’re generally within a certain degree of accuracy. At the same time Renteria was nearly 100% accurate, same with Sanchez, Uribe and Molina (among others)
I think Gold Gloves are meaningless (Jeter helps prove that), I clearly wasn’t calling Martinez a GG caliber player – just a rhetorical device. I think it’s pretty misleading to say Martinez is ’empirically’ worse at C than Huff is at 1B. We don’t really have any particularly accurate way to measure catcher defense or non-tangible stuff like game calling or leadership. I think we can agree they’re both not particularly useful defensive players – but the ability to catch even at a middling level is almost certainly more valuable than the ability to play 1B at a decent level.
You don’t know that they’re gut predictions. That’s what scouts are for. And to say “you can’t make signings based on predictions” is nonsense, since that’s what all executives do. Every single signing is a gamble; this just happens to be a more expensive one. Not as expensive as Jeter or Martinez, and more team friendly with regard to the number of years. It is a deal that is inflexible in the short term and flexible in the long term, which is exactly what the Giants need.
It doesn’t matter if catcher is more valuable then first base. We have one of the best if not the best catchers in all of the game in Posey. We needed a good first baseman and we got one in Huff.
You’re right – I should’ve have attributed to fangraphs, didn’t even think to note that as I wrote it. No question Bill James’ predictions are imperfect – as are all predictions – BUT you can’t make signings based on magical ‘gut’ predictions for what will happen. The projections work because they’re generally within a certain degree of accuracy. At the same time Renteria was nearly 100% accurate, same with Sanchez, Uribe and Molina (among others)
I think Gold Gloves are meaningless (Jeter helps prove that), I clearly wasn’t calling Martinez a GG caliber player – just a rhetorical device. I think it’s pretty misleading to say Martinez is ’empirically’ worse at C than Huff is at 1B. We don’t really have any particularly accurate way to measure catcher defense or non-tangible stuff like game calling or leadership. I think we can agree they’re both not particularly useful defensive players – but the ability to catch even at a middling level is almost certainly more valuable than the ability to play 1B at a decent level.
I never listen to those projections I prefer to let the season play out. 2009 showed me that no one chose the Giants or Rockies to seriously contend that season and they battled until the last week of the season.This season the Rockies,Dodgers,Giants and D-Backs were expected to contend with the Giants finishing at .500. Yet of that group only the Giants lived up and surpassed expectations the others were busts and the Padres came out of nowhere. I say forget projections let the season play out.
I never meant to imply that Huff was a gold glove first baseman. I meant to say empirically that VM is more of a liability at catcher than Huff is at first. And Martinez doesn’t have any gold gloves either, so let’s just leave awards out of it altogether.
I meant lifetime OPS, you are correct.
And by the way, nearly perfectly quoting another source is kinda cheesy. FanGraph’s post today by RJ Anderson “In more generic labels, his last four seasons have represented those of an elite player, a below replacement level player, a star, and a below average player.”
And Bill James is off, on both sides a LOT of time. All predictors are. Injuries, age, soreness, crap teams, all these things play a factor that simply can’t be deduced months before they play a game. Just looking at the Giants this year – Sandoval – predicted .327. Nope. Posey – .270 avg and 11 HR. Nope. Rowand – .267 and 17 HR. BUZZ. Hell, James predicted .267 and 20 HR for Huff last year. Projections are hooey.
It’s obvious you didn’t watch Huff play this year. He was not a disaster anywhere but 1b. In fact he was good everywhere he played. And if you don’t believe me check his stats. All of his errors were at 1b (only 3). 1.000 fielding percentage everywhere else.
I missed when Aubrey Huff started winning gold glove awards. He’s a decent 1B (by far the least important defensive position) but a disaster anywhere else – Martinez rates by most as a superior 1B, actually.No idea what you mean when you say Martinez’s power dropped again. Homers by season: 23, 20, 16, 25, 2 (injured), 23, 20 – seems to me he consistently hits around 20 home runs, his slugging has been between .465 and .505 over that time (last season was the second best of his career at .493).I don’t really care what you think of Bill James – I bring up that point because a projection system with a reputation of being too optimistic sees a huge step backwards from Huff. I don’t know what OBP lifetime you’re talking about means. Martinez has a better OBP than Huff (.369 to .345). Martinez has a better OPS, which is what I assume you meant, as well.I actually genuinely like Aubrey Huff. I think he’s a funny guy and, even as a Yankee fan, I LOVED when he showed up Joba Chamberlain when he was with Baltimore two years ago. I liked him all the way back in his Devil Ray days and remember feeling really disappointed when Lance Carter was taken for the ’03 All Star game instead of Huff. But, as has been pointed out, over the last 4 years Huff has been one of the best players in baseball, one of the worst players in baseball, very good and below average. That doesn’t sound like the sort of thing you commit multiple years at $11 million to.
Psssssssssst – Victor Martinez is a liability defensively, his power numbers have dropped again, his OBP lifetime is .838 to Huff’s .821. And I don’t trust Bill James as far as I can throw him.
If you look at 09, I can just look at 08 when he won a Silver Slugger. So one bad year sandwiched between two good years. You be the judge that 09 was just an off year?
Look at my comment below to Crash. You can’t pick just ’10 and ’08 and then ignore ’07 too. Basically over the last four years he was one of the best players in baseball, one of the worst the year before, very good in ’08 and below average in ’07. The career numbers (or the average of those 4 if you prefer) is probably the fairest to think about his production into the future.
I didn’t ignore 09. I just looked at his seasons before and after 09 and came to conclusion he just had a off season in 09. Is that not fair?
Even though this doesn’t affect his ability to hit. Huff pretty much admitted he was out of shape in 09 back in spring training.
No I don’t actually think that’s fair. I think it would be more fair to look at the fact that 4 of the last 6 years Huff hasn’t been a very good player. Generally speaking, when 4 out of 6 years from age 28 onwards are poor it is not a good indication for the player’s future.
And if it’s an issue of being out of shape and only really playing for a contract then I sure as hell wouldn’t want to give him a two year deal.
That’s your opinion.
But I’m fine with his track record because his only horrible seasons were in (Rookie yr) 01 and 09.
Look at my comment below to Crash. You can’t pick just ’10 and ’08 and then ignore ’07 too. Basically over the last four years he was one of the best players in baseball, one of the worst the year before, very good in ’08 and below average in ’07. The career numbers (or the average of those 4 if you prefer) is probably the fairest to think about his production into the future.
I’d add to that that he was roughly an average player in ’06, a significantly below average player in ’05, a near great one in ’04 and a good one in ’03.
I’d add to that that he was roughly an average player in ’06, a significantly below average player in ’05, a near great one in ’04 and a good one in ’03.
What did Bill James project for Huff last season?
Who cares what Bill James thinks. I’m sure he didn’t think that the Giants would win the WS, or that Aubrey would have the season that he did.
Who cares what Bill Hall thinks. I’m sure that he didn’t think that the Giants would win the WS or that Aubrey would have the kind of year that he did last year.
Huff – 2010 WAR – 5.9. 3 million dollars.
Hiroki Kuroda – 2010 WAR – 4.2. 15 million dollars.
Aramis Ramirez – 2010 WAR – 3.58. 18 million dollars.
Hiroki Kuroda – 2010 WAR – 4.2. 15 million dollars.
Mark Teixeira – 2010 WAR – 4.2 – 21 million
Todd Helton – 2010 WAR – 0.4 17 million dollars.
Above Chase Utley, Joe Mauer, Ichiro, Brian McCann, Adrian Gonzalez, Jayson Werth, Hanley Ramirez, Konerko, could go on and on.
I am all for seeing if he can sustain – The last time he was in the same place for two straight years was Baltimore, 2008, and he hit .304 with 32 HR and a silver slugger.
So in 2010, his SO were close to the same, his BB were way up, and he scored 100 R, while playing 3 different positions and made three errors total. 9th in the NL in defensive WAR (and 5th in fielding %). That’s not mediocre.
All I am saying is – Remember all the articles saying “meh” or “This is stupid” when he was signed? And hell, wouldn’t Giants fans WANT guys like JT Snow, Will Clark and Huff around to mentor Brandon Belt (if he’s the new savior at 1B)? The Giants have ALWAYS been good at honoring their veterans and retirees, and history, and Huff made history for the Giants this year.
That is perhaps the worse use of WAR ever….I mean really? Are you really using Huff’s one year with an above average WAR to prove some sort of point? Just because Huff had a better WAR than Agonz doesn’t proove he will be worth his new deal or that he will out perform Agonz next year.
That being said, I have no problem with the new signing even if it meant overpaying him a little (or a lot depending on who you ask). Giants need a bat and they brought back a hero from 2010. Good job. But add another bat anyway.
While I disagree with you about the signing, I think you are 100% correct that this is a butchery of WAR.
You’re right, there is nothing to prove, in an entire season’s comparison of WAR and salary, that the numbers will stay the same/consistent next year. Of course, there’s nothing to say it won’t. Adrian Gonzalez could get hit by a car next year (not that I want him to, of course).And if I understand this WAR stuff correctly, 7 of his 10 full years have been positive WAR.I still like the Huff signing.
That is perhaps the worse use of WAR ever….I mean really? Are you really using Huff’s one year with an above average WAR to prove some sort of point? Just because Huff had a better WAR than Agonz doesn’t proove he will be worth his new deal or that he will out perform Agonz next year.
That being said, I have no problem with the new signing even if it meant overpaying him a little (or a lot depending on who you ask). Giants need a bat and they brought back a hero from 2010. Good job. But add another bat anyway.
How does this affect Belt? Do they put him in the outfield? Seems like he’s big-league ready.
He will probably be called up around the A.S. break. Huff will most likely play OF. Although Belt has been playing some OF in the minors.
Makes this a much worse signing then because Huff is a miserable defensive OF… If I’m the Giants, I think I’d like to see if Belt can develop into a passable OF because we already know Huff is a poor one.
He’s effectively an average defender in left field, which is where he’ll be playing if Belt pushes him to the outfield. Ross will be playing RF, barring a huge move. So his potential defensive liability is mitigated by the fact that you have Torres in CF and a pretty average LF overall. He won’t be any worse out there than Burrell was, if not better, and Burrell was iffy but not a liability.
There’s also the possibility that Belt will be the one playing LF, since he got a few starts there towards the end of this year and runs a bit better than Huff. You never know.
Lol what are you talking about again? He isn’t anywhere close to miserable in the outfield.
He had no freaking errors in the OF ast year. How the hell can you call that miserable. Obviously you are a stupid Dodgers fan. Go home and cry because the Giants won the WS and the Dodgers suck.
Serious? Unless he mashes the ball at AAA, it ain’t happening. He’ll start at Fresno and is a definite call up for Sept., but Sabes is not going to start his Arb clock at the A.S. Break.
They’ll be safe to call Belt up in mid-June without making him a super two.
He will probably be called up around the A.S. break. Huff will most likely play OF. Although Belt has been playing some OF in the minors.
Belt isn’t big league ready. Yet. He might not get called up next year. But if he does, he’d likely play first and Huff would move to corner outfield.
Sabean said if he keeps hitting in Spring Training he may force his way into the lineup and after what he did in the AFL he may very well be the starting 1B on opening day with Huff in LF
I think we can look at this contract as a three year, 25 mil, including last year.
If you look at it as a 2/22, I think it’s a bit much.
But the contract IS 2/22. Last year was a great signing, but this is an 11 mil impact on the operating budget each of the next two years (and there’s almost no chance Huff repeats his 2010 season next year).
Though I will say Huff was probably worth around 25 million in production to the Giants last year alone.
“and there’s almost no chance Huff repeats his 2010 season next year.”
What are you basing that opinion on?
The other 10 seasons of his career.
So you have one of those Bill James projections to back it up or is it a gut check?
Out of 11 of his seasons he had 7 seasons of hitting over 20+ homers. He also didn’t play as a full time starter in 3 of them. Good job buddy.
As some people seem to be suggesting, it’s really 3 years/$25 million, about $8.3 mil per year–inclusive of 2010. The Giants are from San Francisco, don’t forget. People in S.F. do weeny things like rewarding someone for what they did the previous year.
Socialism!
Huff was 7th in MVP voting. I guess that mediocre to some fools. He keeps in great shape and plays good defense in the OF and 1B. Most importantly to the Giants those are 26 of the 70 HR’s we were losing between Huff, Burrel and Uribe. The price is a little high but to agree on only two years it had to be.
He plays terrible OF defense by basically every measure available. MVP voting has no correlation to future player value. Would you really rather have Huff over Werth? Posey? Zimmerman? Braun? Wainwright? Uggla? McCann? Dunn? Johnson? Heyward? Holliday? Wright? Jimenez? Let alone players that didn’t receive MVP votes this year (such as Lincecum, Cain, Bruce, Utley, H Ramirez, Oswalt, Ethier, etc)…?
It’s funny that in this thread you wanted to know when Huff started winning Gold Glove awards and then a minute later you turned around and said Gold Glove awards are meaningless.
Have you heard of a rhetorical device before? A Gold Glove is an arbitrary term referring to quality fielding. Though it isn’t necessarily determinative of who the best fielders are (e.g. Jeter), I was using it to make the point that Huff’s defense is not good by any measure – metrics or ‘old school’ awards.
Huff was 7th in MVP voting. I guess that mediocre to some fools. He keeps in great shape and plays good defense in the OF and 1B. Most importantly to the Giants those are 26 of the 70 HR’s we were losing between Huff, Burrel and Uribe. The price is a little high but to agree on only two years it had to be.
Sabean got clearance to match an offer Huff received from another team in making a two-year, $22MM proposal.
Sabean wasn’t bidding against himself on this one.
The Dodgers were the other team that forced Sabean to match the offer so you can thank us for raising the price on Huff 😛
Glad to see Aubrey back as a Giant. Back to back WS champs. Sure does sound good.