4:47pm: Williams told MLB.com's Scott Merkin that the Sun-Times report is “false,” but declined to go into further detail because of rules forbidding executives from speaking about other teams’ players. "That's tampering," Williams said. "All I can say is the report isn't completely accurate." Merkin hears that the White Sox demanded compensation from the Marlins when they wanted to talk to Guillen.
9:56am: The Marlins did not discuss an Ozzie-Stanton trade with the White Sox, according to Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post (Twitter link). The White Sox may have discussed the possibility internally, but it seems to have been wishful thinking on Chicago’s part. As the response to our poll shows, Stanton is far more desirable.
4:56am: When Ozzie Guillen was at odds with the Chicago front office earlier this year, there was discussion of a deal that would have sent the White Sox manager to Florida for 20-year-old slugger Mike Stanton, according to Chris De Luca of the Chicago Sun-Times. De Luca reports that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria was intent on making Guillen the Marlins’ next manager until Guillen met with White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and agreed to return in 2011.
Guillen says he never spoke to the Marlins about managing the team, but he confirmed to the Sun-Times that the White Sox granted the Marlins permission to talk to him. White Sox GM Kenny Williams repeated that he is on good terms with Guillen and insisted his manager is staying put.
''Ozzie is the manager of the White Sox next year and I hope the next 10 years after,” Williams said. “How many times do I have to [bleeping] say it?''
Guillen is under contract with the White Sox next year and he expressed interest in an extension at the end of the season, but did not sign one. Stanton batted .259/.326/.507 with 22 home runs as a rookie this year and is under team control through 2016.
Though manager-player exchanges are exceptional, there is some precedent for them. Eight years ago today, the Devil Rays sent Randy Winn to the Mariners after Lou Piniella left Seattle to manage in Tampa.
just last week david sampson said that “mike stanton is our future”, and has made many public statements about his importance that was before his call up. i don’t think the marlins would let him go for a manager, even if they love the manager. just seems far fetched.
They aren’t trading him…
But it sure would have been nice to see a Minaya and Manuel for Grady Sizemore swap.
….And Jeff Wilpon shoulda thrown himself in for free.
Along with Fred
Collect ’em all!!
>:)
Gotta catch em all
has there ever been trades like this in recent MLB history? Manager for player? Seems kinda lolz if it ever has
Manny Sanguillen for Chuck Tanner and $100K in Nov 1976 is one.
The Dodgers traded a player for Ernie Harwell
The Mariners traded Pinella to the Rays for Randy Winn.
lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
It says in the article Pinella for Winn.
I don’t think it was there when it was first posted. Otherwise I wouldn’t have asked but yea
I guess I also could’ve missed the last sentence
It wasn’t there at the time.
Wow…
Boy the White Sox missed out on that one
It’s 6 am, i’m just going to assume this is a product of my sleep deprivation and not in fact real.
I’m thinking the same thing. Been up since noon yesterday, 6am now, and I’ve got work at 11. Sleep deprivation is getting to us both.
is this a joke?
I’m guessing it was just internal discussions within the White Sox Organization and they never went to the Marlins about this because it would go no where.
I actually just got up from my couch to go check the calendar to make sure it’s not April Fool’s Day in some other country like Canada or something…this is the most unreliable POS that’s ever been posted on this usually informative site.
Wow…I never knew you can trade a manager for a player. Either way Ozzie Guillen for Mike Stanton would have been horrible. Mike Stanton is looking like hes on his way to becoming a good player.
Please say this wasn’t true. How could you decline the top young player not named Heyward for a manager when you have a replacement in-house?
Heck, even if you don’t have a replacement in house. A manager isn’t THAT hard to find… A guy like Mike Stanton? Whooo.
What about Posey?
Who is the in-house replacement? Joey Cora? Yikes…
Also, consider the source. Chris De Luca is a complete moron. His major league source was probably some guy in a bar claiming to work for the White Sox. I highly doubt this would even be a discussion for the Marlins. Seems counterproductive to me. Bring in a manager, weaken the team for years?
Just an FYI that I’ll post here rather than respond to a few of the individual posts(such as Tko11’s post), but a few facts for clarification:
a. Officially, you can’t trade managers for players in MLB. Mostly because managers aren’t governed by the rules spelled out in MLB’s CBA(Collective Bargaining Agreement), unlike players. So, trading them straight up for each other hasn’t worked for a while–it used to in the old days, as the above examples show, but that ended as a result of one of the CBAs in the 80s or 90s. Can’t remember exactly when.
b. Unofficially, you can get around this restriction, as the example of the M’s allowing /sending Lou Pinella to Tampa a few years ago show. How does this happen?
Well, in Pinella’s case, the M’s gave the then Devil Rays permission to talk to Lou Pinella, who at the time had 1 year left on his contract, if I recall correctly. When all went well and the Rays wanted him, the M’s allowed him to resign(i.e. quit) and he was hired by Tampa immediately.
Tampa and Seattle had discussed compensation for allowing Tampa to take Pinella as their manager. The Mariners wanted then Rays’ OF Randy Winn, so the Rays agreed, and a trade was negotiated that would send Randy Winn to Seattle. In return, the M’s sent a prospect in their system to Tampa named Antonio Perez(I think that was his name). Of course, the Rays could have just put Winn on waivers and allowed Seattle to claim him, but that might not have worked, since other teams can in turn try to block the claim or claim Winn for themselves on waivers, which would kind of thwart the whole deal. Thus, an official Winn for a prospect trade had to be set up to officially get Winn to Seattle as part of the compensation for the Devil Rays getting Pinella.
So, to sum up: Officially, it was not a manager for player swap. Unofficially, yeah..it pretty much was. And I think the White Sox would’ve had to do much the same thing to get Stanton back as their compensation, had the deal gone down.
(And Larry Beinfest and Michael Hill should thank their lucky stars that it didn’t go down.) 😉
Good Post… I was unaware That mangers were not covered under CBA.
Does this mean we will never see a Player/Manager again (Pete Rose Circa 1985)
This is a little off topic, but for a refresher course I just looked up the White Sox 2005 WS-winning roster, and it’s pretty crazy that they won it all despite having only 2 of their 9 everyday hitters to post an OPS above .800; none of them scored 100 runs, none hit .300, no one had more than 100 RBIs.
The rotation featured Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland (and his career year of 18 wins), Contreras, El Duque. Closer was Dustin Hermanson, of all people.
Just thought it was kind of interesting that they won 99 games (and the WS) despite no one having a crazy year.
Long answer short – it’s a team game. You usually find that the team that rides a hot player or two into the playoffs doesn’t succeed.
Kinda reminds me of the 2010 SF Giants. Except, there’s a few differences.
Right, that’s basically why I looked them up — every now and then, there’s a team such as the 2005 White Sox and 2010 Giants that just kind of reminds me that once in a blue moon, all of the projections and metrics in the world just don’t really matter when it comes to taking home the title.
Actually, during the ’05 postseason the White Sox rotation was more dominant than the ’10 Giants, but this year’s SF bull pen is crazy good.
The Giants runs scored to runs allowed ratio is right up there with the commonly accepted “big boys” of baseball and when they got out into the weaker pitching cities they put runs up on the board. When you compare them to the Phillies on that basis, the Phillies were only 16 runs better than the Giants in ’10. So while in simple terms of runs and OBP, they do not look so good, they hit for average, and they also take walks when it is appropriate. So it was easy for Sabermetrics people to look past them.
The Giants won 88 games in ’09. They were prohibitive favorites to win the NL West this year although all of us NL West fans who watched the division play out last year felt that the West was going to be a 4 or 5 team shootout all year. (That was assuming that the D’backs would have pitching, which they didn’t. But it did turn out that in early Sept., that 4 NL West teams were still quite in it.) So it really shouldn’t be all that surprising that the Giants are doing well. I like Sabermetrics, but I feel it fails to put non-offensive performance into proper perspective, and so it leaves saber-junkies confused and searching for explanations for a team like the Giants.
One truth that you point out though is that good pitching will almost always overcome good hitting in the post season. There are plenty of examples of this in recent history. Detroit beating NY and Oakland. Marlins beating NY. And actually, even though they never won anything, the Moneyball A’s were really a pitching centered team as well.
Right — I was more-so just taking a cursory glance at the numbers, and noticed that there weren’t any really obvious outliers in the SP (aside from Garland’s win total), but yes, I do remember that the White Sox pitched well that year.
Rotation had Mark Burhele and closer was Bobby Jenks
There were actually 3 different closers on that team, which is another oddity for a WS winning team. Season started with Shingo Takatsu as the closer, then he got shipped back to Japan. Hermanson took over in the middle of the year, but injuries put him on the shelf. They called Jenks up from AA in August, put him in the closer’s spot, and he blew people away all the way through game 4 of the WS. Remarkable.
They did have “crazy” years, they were in the bullpen, though. Games were literally shortened to 6 innings for the most part and those 6 innings were dominated by the starting rotation. Dustin Hermanson, Cliff Politte, Neal Cotts: all those guys pitched out of their minds that year. That’s the nature of the bullpen.It goes to show you that pitching will always trump hitting. Take note, New York Yankees. I mean, you keep games close, that’s how you ‘new heroes everyday.’ It’s not rocket science.
Yes, you’re right. I do remember the Sox pitching very well that season.
I was just more-so making a quick observation about how it was interesting that the Sox won 99 games despite not really hitting THAT well — I feel that it’s a little unusual to get so close to 100 wins mostly on pitching.
I’m not looking at their team batting stats or anything, so I could be completely wrong in that maybe the Sox DID hit well in relation to the rest of the league.
Yes, you’re right. I do remember the Sox pitching very well that season.
I was just more-so making a quick observation about how it was interesting that the Sox won 99 games despite not really hitting THAT well — I feel that it’s a little unusual to get so close to 100 wins mostly on pitching.
I’m not looking at their team batting stats or anything, so I could be completely wrong in that maybe the Sox DID hit well in relation to the rest of the league.
Actually the White Sox closer that year started as Shingo Takatsu (he of the frisbee pitch). Then when he sucked they went to Dustin Hermanson. Then he got injured and the called up a relative unknown in Bobby Jenks.
this would have been one of the worst trades in baseball history. I thought the Marlins wanted to trade away aging players, not young players. Stanton is a star of the future too. this just would not have made sense.
maybe the players were mixed up and it should have been Cody Ross who was a Marlin at the time.
haha I must still be drunk
I assumed from the headline it was the reliever, Mike Stanton–since any other Mike Stanton would be ludicrous.
I wouldn’t have given up MS in his prme years with NY. Those were some great years.
I heard during the doc trade talks that the phillies would have included dom brown if cito was included.
No, it was Dom Brown for Cito Gaston, Hockey, Canadian Bacon, maple syrup and all of those other favorite Canadian pastimes.
You’re right, so the complete trade was
Jays get: Dom Brown, D’Arnaud, Taylor, Drabek, The philadelphia flyers, and Will Smith
Phillies get, Hockey, Roy Halladay, Cito Gaston, Canadian Bacon, a tub of Maple Syrup and a crate full of those tennis racket shoes.
Hahahahahahahahha. You can have Will Smith, but Flyers hockey is gonna cost you!
fine we’ll throw in free health care if you send us 2002 Allen Iverson
DONE! Lmao
Where’s the Philly cheese steak
Hahahahahahahahha. You can have Will Smith, but Flyers hockey is gonna cost you!
you forgot the tub of moose meat.
Hey Cardinals- Cito Gaston for Colby Rasmus?
A little bit different, but Billy Beane almost traded himself to the Red Sox in exchange for Kevin Youkilis.
I assumed this was just a play on the present-day Mike Stanton’s name and was actually referring to the former MLB reliever of the same name and Ozzie back when he was a player.
Wow… crazy thought, but I can’t imagine the Marlins would really have ever gone for it though. Seems way too far-fetched. Stanton is a monster.
Travis Snider for Joe Maddon?
That’s the craziest thing…ever!!
Mike Trout and a good link on some pure columbian snow for ron washington?
Low blow. Oops…..did I mention blow? My bad.
Low blow. Oops…..did I mention blow? My bad.
Jose Bautista’s Beard for Mike Scioscia
Replace Bautista’s beard with Brian Wilson’s and then I’ll think about it
I wonder if the Twins have thought about trading Carl Pavano’s mustache for Evan Longoria. It’s about as plausible.
I wonder if the Twins have thought about trading Carl Pavano’s mustache for Evan Longoria. It’s about as plausible.
I actually heard that Carl Pavano’s mustache projected as an all-star at the hot corner, and he’s got really soft hands, and can you picture him sporting a blazer with the rest of the team? He’d be epic for that clubhouse.
Even if Pavano walks, I hope we can at least work out a five- or six-year deal with that stache.
Even as a Tiger’s fan, I would not be too upset to see that happen. 🙂 Hahaha
Even as a Tiger’s fan, I would not be too upset to see that happen. 🙂 Hahaha
Even if Pavano walks, I hope we can at least work out a five- or six-year deal with that stache.
That’s some serious wishful thinking on Kenny Williams part right there. Why not just go for the home run and include Bobby Jenks if they’ll throw in Hanley Ramirez
And this just needs to be said…Carl Pavano has the coolest mustache of all time. Ramon Vazquez gave him a run for his money a few years ago, but Pavano’s is just amazing
That’s some serious wishful thinking on Kenny Williams part right there. Why not just go for the home run and include Bobby Jenks if they’ll throw in Hanley Ramirez
And this just needs to be said…Carl Pavano has the coolest mustache of all time. Ramon Vazquez gave him a run for his money a few years ago, but Pavano’s is just amazing
If that deal actually happened, Loria should be forced to sell the team and Selig should be forced to resign.
No manager is worth a player even half Stanton’s caliber.
I could see it for being someone like Cody Ross back in his Marlin days, or someone that the team is likely either not going to resign, is someone like Winn who while a productive player at the time in question was also likely blocking a kid that was ready now. Winn likely had minimal trade value, but had a time left on his deal that really wasn’t movable, or a AAAA type such as Nelson Cruz a few years ago. Sometimes these players can shake the label and become well Nelson Cruz, other times they can’t and become Brandon Larson.
But to trade a young player with Stanton’s talents for any manager would as scummy as trading them for a boat load of cash. That was shot down by the commish when the 70’s A’s tried to do it, and Selig would need to step up and do the same to this if any form of this deal were to happen.
Career class A player for Stanton and we “fire” Guillen so he can sign with you.
Even if Guillen were to find the fountain of Youth while working for the Marlins he wouldn’t be worth Stanton.
If that deal actually happened, Loria should be forced to sell the team and Selig should be forced to resign.
No manager is worth a player even half Stanton’s caliber.
I could see it for being someone like Cody Ross back in his Marlin days, or someone that the team is likely either not going to resign, is someone like Winn who while a productive player at the time in question was also likely blocking a kid that was ready now. Winn likely had minimal trade value, but had a time left on his deal that really wasn’t movable, or a AAAA type such as Nelson Cruz a few years ago. Sometimes these players can shake the label and become well Nelson Cruz, other times they can’t and become Brandon Larson.
But to trade a young player with Stanton’s talents for any manager would as scummy as trading them for a boat load of cash. That was shot down by the commish when the 70’s A’s tried to do it, and Selig would need to step up and do the same to this if any form of this deal were to happen.
Career class A player for Stanton and we “fire” Guillen so he can sign with you.
Even if Guillen were to find the fountain of Youth while working for the Marlins he wouldn’t be worth Stanton.
Does the article talk about how hard Florida laughed at the Sox?
What kinda idiot thought of this trade?Can you even imagine how hard the Marlins are laughing right now?
Put Gordon Beckham in the trade and then the Marlins might start talking .
this is almost as funny as when Boston wanted Stanton as part of the Manny Ramirez trade.
Manny ramirez for mike stanton in 2008? No no no…wait, ozzie guillen for mike stanton in 2010? GET ON THE PHONES! seriously look at all the proposed trades in recent years that the marlins didnt execute cause teams wanted Stanton and this is the one that makes headlines? wow…
Marlins ownership is obviously crazy. Ozzie is like a pair of concrete overshoes for the White Sox and the turmoil he creates distracts his team from performing as well as they can. He’d be even worse with the younger, more distractable Marlins.
Ozzie has stated numerous times that he is trying to distract the media, not the team. There are flashbulbs in his face when things are down, but never in the locker room when the players are heading home.
whoa! i never even knew player for manager trades were possible until i read this.
anyway, even if this proposal was real, the White Sox would of easily won that one. it could possibly be one of the stupidest things the Marlins would ever do.
I can’t stop laughing….my belly aches!
As a Dodgers fan, I’d love to proposed the following deal to any of the other 29 teams:
Ned Colletti for a janitor to be named later.
i bet the conversation went something like this:
Kenny:” hey, i here you guys like ozzie guillen”
marlins: “yeah, were definitely interested”
kenny: “yeah well we want him gone! err…i mean..he is gonna cost you”
marlins: “how much?”
kenny: ” how about that stanton kid”
marlins ” -no dial tone-”
end of story.
This is one of the weirdest rumors i’ve ever seen. Ozzie Guillen can hardly play shortstop anymore. Why would anyone trade a top slugging prospect for him?
Maybe they meant former Atlanta Braves closer Mike Stanton?
Since when does he play for the Marlins?