Matt Holliday has officially signed what will surely be the biggest contract of the 2009-10 offseason. It's a seven-year, $120MM deal with a full no-trade clause. Holliday's vesting option for 2017 would be worth $17MM if he finishes in the top-10 in MVP voting in 2016; if the option doesn't vest, the Cards will owe Holliday a $1MM buyout.
ESPN's Buster Olney wrote Monday that the two sides were close to a possible seven-year deal and SI.com's Jon Heyman first reported that the Cardinals and Holliday had agreed to a deal. Heyman (via Twitter) and Matthew Leach of MLB.com delivered the specifics later.
Holliday, who will keep getting paid under this contract until he's 49, will be 36 in the last guaranteed year of the deal. By comparison, Jason Bay will be 34 in the last year of his deal, one that guarantees him $54MM less than the one Holliday signed.
Holliday falls short of the $18MM average salary he reportedly sought, but this contract is a huge win for Boras given the lack of competition. Click here to check out others' reactions to the deal.
Ben Nicholson-Smith contributed to this post.
Curious to see how many years they gave him.
From all indictations it would appear the Cards are overpaying the market, but not overpaying the player. Two years ago this would have been a good contract. Now it looks like they’re overpaying by 20-30 million because of the down market.
I’m hoping it’s five with the rest mutual clauses. Like the Varitek deal on steroids.
they are gunna have trouble signing Pujols when he hits FA.
If you want to use the argument that it will be tough to field a good team with Pujols and HOlliday on the payroll I will not argue and I will listen. Because I am not sure about it yet.
BUT Pujols will be a Cardinal for life. The money is there and it will be there.
this is just a point of clarification..the cardinals had almost 30million dollars come off the books from non contributing/mildy contributing players and probably wanted to get holliday for that reason.
those players are: glaus 12MM, Ankiel, 3MM, wellemeyer, khalil greene 7MM, and pineiro’s 7.5MM.
Glaus,ankiel,wellemeyer,duncan, and a few minor leaguers all had -0- War or negative war, so its addition by subtraction.
Piniero definitely contributed. He’ll be missed, but the man’s gotta get his paycheck. He earned it.
Not sure what exactly Piniero earned. He was *abysmal* his first year in STL. Dont think anyone expected him to do what he did last season, and I don’t expect that out of him in the future either.
In responding to the previous post, Piniero certainly contributed in 2009. His production will need to be replaced if the Cards want to contend again in 2010. Piniero earned the shot to get big money from some other club. The Cards were smart enough to say “you had your career year here, but we know that you’re most likely going to fall off”, so they went and signed Penny.
His season last year was absurd. Great gb%. Great ERA. Would have had a lot more wins with a little run support earlier in the year. He’ll get a healthy paycheck somewhere based on his career year. He should be good for the Mets, where the few *bad* mistakes he makes per game will likely be loud outs, rather than HRs.
For the Cardinals and the fans sake let’s hope so. Imho, they overpaid for Holliday 7/120mil. Especially knowing that the BEST PLAYER (Pujols) will be a free agent in two years. I don’t see him taking a team discount after they gave Holliday that much. Plus what happens if Pujols leaves?
I have a hard time believing that the Cardinals’ front office would do anything they thought would jeopardize their ability to sign Pujols. The deal, if it gets done, will be structured in such a way that there’s money left to sign Pujols to an extension.
Pujols will never leave StL. He will signa hometeam discount and/or they will give him stock after he retires
Let’s get it done~
good but not great player.
agree
Sure, it’s a no brainer to say there are better players out there, but we need a left fielder and we need a legit clean up man -a clean up man that can also hit for average is a bonus. we got all of that in Matt Holliday.
If Boras is smart they will get this done immediately. The Cardinals are going to be a winning team at least for the next 5 years, probably more. Get this done!
oh really? the A’s blew their load trying to get him.
7 years $120 million would be my guess
6/102 with option (3mil buyout makes deal worth at least 6/105 maybe 7/119)
Finally.
Happy the Yankees didn’t get him, however congrats to cards, without hollidAy that lineup looks not-so- tuff
Even with him the lineup is very ‘blah’ after them two..
What about Rasmus? The kid has a quick bat and was making strides last season. Plays a pretty good centerfield too. Besides him and ludwick the cardinals do lack power, but we’ll see what else they do this offseason.
You are right, Rasmus has potential. However, from what I remember, didnt La Russa not play him… at all? I figured it would be the same way next year. Also, I always thought of Rasmus as more of a speed guy, not a power guy..
Rasmus is a 5-tool guy. At this point he is actually more power than speed, but much of that is cause you don’t run as much when Pujols is at the plate, and Rasmus hit no. 2 a lot last year. And he did play a lot, he had 474 ABs in 147 games…
He’s only going to get better. A lot better I think.
well i learned something today. I knew Rasmus was one of their top guys, but I didnt realize he had power and speed, let alone 5 tools. Not trying to rip on Rasmus, at all, but I dont like to call guys 5 tool players unless they are on the Matt Kemp type level.. dominate with all 5 tools. Maybe he is/will be, but from the limited action I saw, I didnt think he was on that level.
When I said he didnt play a lot, I meant towards the end where La Russa played Ankiel in front of Rasmus. If I remember, some STL fans were angry that La Russa wasnt showing more trust in Rasmus…
He may have gotten a couple days off but I don’t think he sat much all year. That was one of the big questions going into the season – if Rasmus comes up you have to play him a lot so he wasting potential minor league experience by being a bench player. But he did pretty well, and looking at the game log I don’t see many days that he got off at the end.
But it doesn’t really matter, you’re right, he was one of our top guys and hopefully he matures quickly now that he’s made it. There’s no Ankiel to be splitting CF time with this year.
Hmm… interesting. I guess I misheard/misread/misremembered some reports.
I can vaguely remember a story on ESPN about Rasmus not getting enough time even though Ankiel was sucking… whatever.
And I do believe it is an accepted fact that Rasmus is one of your best young players, will be interesting to see how he handles being the full time CF, as long as the Cards give him the chance…
It’s possible that was said. Given the poor year Ankiel had giving him any time over letting Rasmus play and develop wasn’t smart. But 20/20 hindsight, it’s all relative.
This year is definitely going to be a fun one to follow.
I believe what you are talking about had nothing to do with Rasmus’s performance last year in reference to him sitting. This “report” or whatever was analysis after Ankiel had hit the wall. He was struggling and LaRussa was trying to give him some extra AB’s to try and get him to come around for later in the year. Had nothing to do with Rasmus’s performance. Ankiels poor performance was this cause and it all stemmed from his crash into the wall. At this time Rasmus was dealing with a foot/heal injury or something like this and it was a good opportunity to get Ankiel some AB while resting Rasmus.
not so true, they would still get some other free agents..and its not like they werent competing for a play off spot before DeRosa and holliday came in. though im not seeing the huge hype about DeRo, he had a whoppin 1.7 WAR..and most of that came from the time with the Indians.
If the Yankees wanted him he would have signed with them.He stated he would like to play for the Yankees.
I take that with a grain of salt. Given, it’s entirely plausible he really did feel that way, but it’s typical of a Boras client to say “I’d love to play for the Yankees.” Pegging the highest payroll team in American pro sports as one of your ideal destinations is a pretty effective tactic for artificially inflating a player’s value.
I dont think this is a great move. If they are able to sign Albert long term and have Holliday for 17M/year, they could easily have 42M tied up in their 3 and 4 spots. And they would rely on a team similar to last year, a great middle of the lineup, but not much else offensivley. Look at the series vs the Dodgers, we pitched around Albert and let Holliday try to beat us. If neccesary, we could have walked BOTH, and then there isnt anyone else to knock them in. Even with their great pitching, they got to the NLDS, but didnt have a complete team which is neccesary to compete in the postseason.
As of right now, from an outsiders point of view, they are gearing up to dominate the divison and then struggle in the postseason, as long as teams are able to pitch around one of Albert or Holliday…
Walking Pujols destroyed any flow the Cards offense had, and to think the Dodgers pitching “sucked”
But I think with Rasmus getting better(I think the kid is a stud) and with average guys around him Molina, Ryan, and the dude in Right.. can’t think of his name.. they should be good to go.
ryan ludwick. he’s pretty good but won’t be around for a too terribly long time anymore..he’s gonna get a 10MM+ contract somewhere so probably will be packaged up for an A- prospect and a mid B prospect.
all their bats died in the NLDS, it’s not because the talent wasn’t there, baseball is just fluky like that. Cards desperately need a big bat behind Pujols and they are finally getting their guy, they are overpaying but it’s still a good move.
I can agree with that kinda.. The Dodgers couldn’t hit 99 cent store beach balls(Dodger fans know) with a 2×4 in the LCS.
I like this move a lot and much of the team didn’t do so hot in the post season. Pujols did alright, but got walked twice a game so he didn’t have much of a chance. And yeah, Holliday had some chances that he didn’t come through. But another year removed for Rasmus, who took great at bats the whole series along with other players that probably won’t have worse years than last year. Look at the ’06 Cards, perfect example of just needing to get to the playoffs and then anything can happen. I think we’ll have a better lineup than then, and our pitching is better too. Carp is Carp, and I think Wainwright hasn’t hit his ceiling yet either. Lohse is going to have to improve cause he wasn’t good at all last year, partly due to injuries. And I think Dave Duncan + Brad Penny could equal another pitcher reinventing himself.
We’ll see what happens, but I’d have to disagree with the assumption that we’ll struggle in the postseason. I think we’ll do well in our division, and with the nature of baseball anyone that gets to the postseason could win it all, but at this point in the offseason I’m more optimistic than I’ve been since the Pujols and healthy Edmonds and Rolen days.
Fair enough.. I just think this team is built to dominate the regular season(where teams wont walk Albert 10 times in 5 games), but once in the postseason, where teams will go around Albert(ie, how the Dodgers did), this team will have trouble knocking in runs. Once you get past Albert and Holliday, it gets a little sketchy, unless Rasmus breaks out, Molina remains one of the best offensive forces behind the plate, and they get serious production out of SS, 2B or 3B. Seems like a lot of question marks, even with a team that has Albert and Holliday in the middle…
All good points. This is what happened in the DS, so it could happen again. I hope not, but it’s possible. I think Rasmus and the others will do better down the road though, and experience is huge, which some of the guys on the team hadn’t had in the postseason. Molina had a great playoff run in ’06, I think Ludwick could do much better, and there really wasn’t much production out of the three other positions in the playoffs, so there’s only one way to go from there, up.
So I think your assessment of the Cards being able to do better throughout the system is legit. Hopefully the team can do a better job of making other teams pay for the free passes in the future. With another year and postseason experience, I’m excited to see it happen.
I am also curious how the pitching will hold up. Similar to their lineup, they have two studs, then some question marks. Even if last year was a career year for Pinerio, I do think he was a very good #3. I seems like this team could hit gold with some guys growing up in the rotation and lineup, or have 4 stars, Molina, and then disappointment. I do think those 5 guys are good enough to take you to the postseason, unless the Cubs have a serious bounce back(which I am skeptical about). But in the postseason, were someone will walk Albert and face Holliday, or if a team is able to beat one of Carp or Wainwright, this team could be in trouble…
I can see your concerns about production from SS since Ryan isn’t proven and 3B since we aren’t even clear as to who will be starting there. But I think 2B and Skip are serious production in the 1 spot. He’s consistently hit .300 since coming up and was just as consistent on his way through the minors.
You are right, I completely forgot about Skip… ignore my 2B comment.
My general thought is that in the playoffs, when teams would rather walk Albert when he comes up in a big spot and pitch to Holliday, or even walk both of them(as the Dodgers did to load the bases in one game, and then got out of the situation with no runs scored against the next hitter in NLDS), the Cardinals do not seem to have enough balance to score runs when one or both of them are shut down. Similar to the Dodgers in the NLCS(sorry to keep using Dodger examples, it is simply the team I know the best), when all the bats beside Ethier’s died. Our lineup last year was deeper than the Cardinals projected lineup this year, and yet we had problems. I could see similar problems with the Cards lineup this year.
He is a good player and good hitter. However for them to get his maximum value they would be better served batting him 3rd and Pujols 4th. He isnt a true clean up hitter at all. Kinda what the Yankees did with Tex and A-Rod.
but Tex had protection namely Cano and Godzilla and Posada..if that was done, Ludwick would be batting in behind of albert, which kinda was the whole reason we got holliday…to prevent people form walking him.
Cards/Cubs rivalry just got better. Now they each have a left fielder who drops routine fly balls. lol
HAHAHA….not funny! Yeah they both dropped a fly ball. BUT only one of them is dumb enough to do a pathetic little jump before he catches the ball and gets hurt doing it! lol Oh yeah and only one of them actually hits the ball too
LOL that’s great. I don’t think he is at all like Soriano. He hits for a higher average, doesn’t strike out as much, isn’t a converted 2B, and is just a better hitter overall.I do think the rivalry will be good as it is almost every year, even when one or both of the teams isn’t as competitive as you’d like, but I’d take our LF over yours any day of the week (to Timmy, not stl_cards of course).
For all the people saying the Cards will not be able to field a team with $40M+ tied up with 2 players, the projected payroll is $100M. The Twins do OK fielding a team for $60M.
Sure nobody can do it as well as the Twins, but if you start with Pujols + Holliday, I think you can do just fine paying the other 23 players $60M
It isn ‘t just $40M tied up into 2 players. It’s more like $70M tied up in 4 players when you count Loshe and Carpenter. And after last year the Cardinals are pretty weak in their system so they won’t have the young players coming up and contributing for league minimum. What happens when the other core players like Wainwright, Molina, and Ludwick hit free agency, and Rasmus starts raking in with arbitration?
The Cards might have a solid 2-3 year window to win a championship but after that it could be a rough re-build.
The Cardinals already have Molina and Wainwright locked into contracts that with team options keep them in St. Louis for another 3-4 seasons each. By the time they need money for Wainwright, Molina, and Rasmus the current contracts for everyone besides Holliday and theoretically Pujols will have expired. With the end of Carpenter and Lohse’s contracts in 2012 they will have plenty of payroll flexibility.
People like to throw out the idea that they cannot keep Pujols now or cannot field a competitive team around these two players. Neither of these notions hold any water when you look at the numbers.
I looked at the numbers, and the Cardinals have (assuming they re-sign Pujols to a reasonable contract) about $80M tied up in 5 players for 2012. And then Molina, Wainwright, Carpenter, and others hit free agency. Good luck with that.
They aren’t going to lose Pujols in free agency. The Cardinals front office knows the payroll better than anybody on here, and certainly wouldn’t do something to jeopardize the chances of retaining the franchise player.
they signed holliday because they know they WONT be able to resign pujols,thus they will have holliday at a cheaper (versus pujols contract) price to fall back on. Honestly holliday is not worth anything more than 100mill, especially since dropping a pop up that basically cost the Cards playoffs.
haha Cubs fan
He made one bad play–let it go. Holliday sparked the Cardinals offense in a way nobody else could, and certainly helped the team win more games than the one he blew.
conspiracy theory much fool? wont be able to resign pujols..i could remember an interview with john mozeliak saying they would pay pujols 90 million a year (sarcasm im assuming) and field a team of minor leaguers if thats what he wants. sorry i dont have a link..was a bit while back ago.
As catch21_2 said above, there’s no way they would jeopardize being able to sign Pujols to an extension. It’s just ignorant to not even consider that fact. And 999/1000 of those ball should be caught, but it was not a pop up. it was a line drive, which every time you see one of those hit at an outfielder the tv guys always mention that is a much tougher ball to catch than it looks. They mention that over and over for a reason… But still no excuse.
WOW… This was about ignorant… They signed Holliday because they WON’T be able to sign Pujols…HA They signed Holliday to show Pujols they are commited to winning and that he should sign a contract extension instead of ever testing the FA market. Which is what will happen. Pujols will sign a contract extension now that Holliday is ON the books. It will happen sometime next offseason or in the 2011 season. And in NO way did the error COST the playoffs. It sucked yes, but it was one out. It happened with no runners on base and Franklin just couldn’t close the door. If I remember the playoffs are played in a best of format… not sudden death.
Anything in the neighborhood of 7 years/$118-120 million seems stunning. The Cards are, and should be, smarter than this. They got played into a classic Boras-esque “floor” and negotiated against only themselves into this corner. It boggles my mind that their $100MM+ offer is the only one in that range on the table yet they’re far exceeding that, let alone putting it out there in the first instance. Sure, Boras is great at what he does but of all teams, you’d have expected the Cards — generally smartly operated front office — to call his bluff. Boras’s game only works if he’s playing teams off each other. Here, there’s one team out there. The #s here are so substantial – seems likely the Cards could’ve secured Holliday’s services for the real prime of his career for $50MM less. I understand this was Pujols-motivated but it’s still baffling.
At last. (Hopefully)
TO BE HONEST pujols is a better player than Arod, and arod got a 250mill. I can see pujols getting WAY more than the 180mill texiera got, its going to be around 200 – 220 mill for 8 yrs. Boston will be in the mix, i doubt the yankees will have the resources to sign pujols and i doubt pujols wants to be a DH player for the remainder of his career. It might be between Bosox and Mets. If the mets are able to trade beltran this or next season, i can see them freeing up some money and going all in for a 1b who is in my view the best over all player in this generation.
no one will be “in the mix” for Pujols b/c he will not hit FA, he will be re-signed before that.
Pujols may be a Cardinal for his entire career. Sounds like wishful thinking to me, but stranger things have happened. However, he would be an idiot to sign a contract before he hits free agency. Moreover, any agent who lets Pujols sign what is sure to be the biggest contract of his career while the Cards still have exclusive negotiating rights is not doing his job.
He will become a free agent, just like ARod did. He’ll probably still be a Cardinal when all is said and done, but the Cards’ front office can’t afford to go on the assumption that the best and most sought after player in baseball is going to sign anything before every offer is on the table.
Why would he be an “idiot”? If someone is offered $250 million now, but turns that down for the possibility of making 20% more two years down the road, I’d say that makes THAT person the idiot. Pujols could blow out his elbow, tear up his knee, etc. and cost himself millions.
That’s simply how negotiations work. Pujols and his agent are going to go for the biggest score possible, and they can’t get it unless multiple teams are bidding against each other.
Pujols has his World Series ring. He has his MVPs and any city he plays in will love him just as much as St. Louis. The only prize left is the opportunity to get the biggest contract in Major League history.
That’s not true. Pujols is old school. Everyone likes to pick up their paycheck, but Pujols has his hometown crowd aside from playing in KC, he wants to play his entire career for one team like so many legends did. He’s said way to much about players “Manny” among others coming to STL and playing in front of the fans knowing they’d love it and may take a discount. He will get PAID, but it won’t be 30 mil a year or something like that. He will sign an extension next offseason or in 2011. It’s even possible that if they are having an incredible year and he sees what years to come will be like in STL with Holliday he may sign before the end of this season. It’s not likely, but he’s been shown the commitment he’s been looking for. My only worry is after they sign Pujols and have both contracts on the books, is that they will be able to work something out with Wainwright. I believe Carp will end up with the Cards, but for shorter contracts from here on our. Maybe 2-3 year deal. He’s getting to that point in his career.
That true.
dude AROD was OVERPAID. everyone in the world knows that..pujols is actually worth what AROD is getting so the contracts will obviously be similar..and im SURE he will throw a little, small as it maybe, hometown discount. do a little research, his family moved over from the domincian’s to independence missouri where he went threw high school ( batted .600), then attended community college where he was drafted by the team he grew up rooting for as a kid, the cardinals. not to mention he and his wife have lived in the same community for the last 10 YEARS. you ever hear of the pujolsfamilyfoundation? its a organization about helping the dislexic(spelling?) children in the area of St.Louis. and after he won his last MVP, he stated about three times in the speech he wants to remain a cardinal.
did i blast you enough or would you like more facts?
ITS “DYSLEXIA” maybe you should see if you can enroll in the foundation. I know his past. Once he came here he told his cousin (since he did not speak english) that he wanted to join the Baseball Team. His cousin then went to the coach, the coach said he has 10 pitches to hit, all 10 pitches were Hrs. Did i BLAST you with enogh info?
His foundation is not to help dyslexic kids, its to help kids with down syndrome. AP5 is a saint, adopting his wife’s child with down syndrome and then starting a foundation to help children with the same condition in the St. Louis area. His foundation also helps kids in the DR.
Thank you! I was worried no one would say anything about the Albert Pujols Family Foundation for Dyslexic kids…haha Coby is correct. It is a foundation to help children living with Down Syndrome.
No way Pujols leaves StL. The Cards will pony up. Stan Musial didn’t leave. Gibson didn’t leave. Pujols is in that elite class of iconic players that come to represent the city and the team. No way he walks away from what the Cards will offer (which will be everything and the kitchen sink).
Also heard today that Matt put in a bid on a house in St Louis. Take it for what it’s worth.
Yeah, I doubt Pujols leaves if only because the Yankees have a 1B locked up long term. Taking them out of the bidding makes it far more likely that Pujols comes to terms. However, between the two of them, the Cards will be very limited to bring in other pieces. They’re not the Yankees, BoSox, Phillies, Mets or Cubs. They dont have that kind of revenue.
And look what the Mets and Cubs have done with that revenue… Now what about what Tampa Bay did or Colorado, how about Minnesota? All small to mid market teams that put competitive teams on the field. I can see you’re point with the Yankees and Sox, but the Phillies aren’t in the same class as either of them either when it comes to revenue. Look at what these lower tier teams have done with 50-60 MIL. The Cards will be competitive for years to come.
I agree that Pujols won’t leave St. Louis… BUT should a contract extension fail to work out with him before he hits FA (which I don’t believe will happen), the Cardinals could trade Pujols to gain several amazing prospects from a team/ several teams. Consider this an absolute worst case scenario, but pieces still fall into place for the Cards.
Matt Holliday makes a great player to build a team around- consider the Rockies, and they won a WS.
All in all, with this move, the Cardinals can conceivably function without the existence of Pujols in the long run. albeit- no cards fan would ever want that.
Who won a WS? Not Colorado bud. They appeared in their first WS in 2007 and I don’t think I need to remind many how that turned out…
… that was my bad on the WS. Still, Colorado got into that position on the back of holliday
Great news.
Holliday is getting a deal today if i were the cardinals i would set the deadline until next week.
He’s about to appear on ESPN radio, presumably to announce that the deal is done.
drat. mlbtr just beat me
double post, sorry
7 years? 120 million? No-Trade Clause? It sounds like Hendry negotiated this deal. Holliday’s a good player but that’s a pretty hefty deal.
Ha, I thought the same thing Cruncy. The Cards pulled a classic Hendry and wound up bidding against themselves. I don’t know who else was realistically offering a contract in that vicinity. Boras must be a witch doctor or something.
Holliday’s a very good player, but he’s not the kind of guy you give 7 years to, let alone for that much money. As a Cubs fan, this is honestly what I was hoping for.
Well.. Boras “played” Epstein with Drew and now he has “played” St. Louis with Holliday, only this time, there was clearly -0- no competition for him. There was no excuse for this waste of money, since not even the NYY would have blown that amount of money for somebody that had never proven he could hit in the AL.I hope for the Cardinal fans sake that they can resign Pujols , or this team is going to regret this awful waste of 120m dollars.
Well, best of luck to the Cardinals. A seven year deal could look good at the beginning, but could also easily turn unmovable. I have no doubts though that Holliday will perform up to his expectations.
7 years at 17 mil per when no one else including the Yanks, Red Sox, or Mets would come close to that. I hate Boras, but the man is good.
really??? 7/120 while bidding against yourself, if that wasnt enough, lets add in that no trade clause
I don’t think it’s too bad…Maybe a little longer than we wanted but to be clearly one of the top 2 teams in the NL for at least the next 2 years it will be worth it.
what? really? lol
who else besides the Phillies is in the cards stratosphere?
explain how cardinals are top 2? Do you actually think Carpenter will start more than 25 games and Wainwright will have comparable stats to last year? Outside Pooholes and Holliday, nothing in the cardinals lineup impresses me.
I have no reason to believe Carpenter won’t make 30 starts next year, and wainwright has been a top tier pitcher since the second half of 2007, so yes I do expect both of them to be comparable. I also expect Brad Penny under dave duncan to have a big year. Obviously the Phillies are the class of the NL, but if not the cards then who? The Dodgers have taken a serious hit this year because of the McCourt’s Divorce, and Manny towards the second half of the year just didn’t seem to be the same player. Giants still have the best pitching but don’t have the offense. Met improved with Bay but still have a bunch of scrubs pitching behind Bay. So again if not the Cards then who?
Holliday was just on ESPN radio and he confirmed the deal is done and it is for 7/119
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO
Wow, that is a lot of money to give out to a player. Yes he is VERY good, but not one of the best, and it was a surprise to see him get that much when it was only the Cardinals in the race. I think that is what Bravesfan said too. Let’s see if he lives up to it.
Woah I was right. Still surprsed that Cardinals was really the only suitor
Cards outbid themselves, here. Not sure who else was offering anything close to that.
Man, Boras must be a witch doctor or something.
As a Cubs fan, this was honestly what I was hoping for. Holliday is very good, but I don’t think he’s the kind of player you give 7 years, 120 mm too.
likewise with soriano, fukodome, Zambrano, half your team, etc etc. 🙂
I agree. This trade leaves the Cards spending roughly half their payroll on two players. It’ll be tough to build a team around those two contracts, especially with a farm system that doesn’t look like it’s going to produce much more than role players over the next few years. It may be okay in the short term but it’s got to hamper them over the next few years….at least, as a Cub fan, I hope it does!
Rasmus and freese are the only prospects we needed..every other position is covered with solid talent. maybe with the exception of 4-5 in the rotation but its not like thats expensive.
Freese isn’t a great prospect. And I don’t know if Lugo, Schumaker, et. al constitute as “solid talent”. You’re pretty optimistic on those fronts. We’ll see. I’m glad they spent all those years and money, though.
I’m so tired of seeing people talk sh*t on Schumaker. After one year at 2B he’s top 5 in the NL. His defense will only improve and he’s got the bat we want at the top of our lineup. I’ll take .300+ avg consistently to lead off my team. As an outfielder, yes he was lacking in the power aspect, but at 2nd as a leadoff man. It’s a great fit. But I have to agree with Freese. He has yet done anything to impress me, besides showing his tolerance for alcohol… 🙁
Just like when Boras got Manny that contract when it was obvious there was no competition for him, the cards are overpaying for Holliday when it is obvious he has nowhere else to go but to the cards. Hmmm, Boras is good at what he does, that is for sure.
Looks like the Cardinals are on their way to another division title unless someone gets hurt.
Nice. The Cards are back in business.
I think another reason why the Cardinals appeared to compete against themselves is because they wanted to get the deal done. If they weren’t able to sign Holliday then they needed to be in the market for the other players. They had to be aggressive even against themselves to finalize the deal. Boras was in no rush to do anything from the very beginning.
I like that thinking. They needed to get the deal done before they handcuffed themselves and lost plan B. Thanks jshap219. I feel a little better about this deal, but still think they could have just starting working on plan B and watch Boras fold. Every year I wait for someone to call him out!
It’s on a much smaller level, but the Twins did it last year with Crede. Boras was pushing and standing firm at $7mil. The Twins didn’t give and he signed for $2.5mil in late February.
Does that count?
Hmmm, that does count! But he was kidding himself thinking Crede was worth 7mil with his back issues. Weren’t the Giants in for him too though?
Didn’t it happen with Beltre too? I remember him wanting 3-4 years earlier….then again he is likely still looking for that, just for next year instead.
Maybe. It’s still the first week of January so it’s tough to say that Theo held out for the best offer Boras would have taken.
sort of a conspiracy theory, but with the BoSox signing beltre who i am assuming was part of Plan B, mozeliak felt a little pressure to hurry with holliday. i think it makes sense.
$120 Million, no-trade clause? Not good.
TO BE HONEST pujols is a better player than Arod, and arod got a 250mill. I can see pujols getting WAY more than the 180mill texiera got, its going to be around 200 – 220 mill for 8 yrs. Boston will be in the mix, i doubt the yankees will have the resources to sign pujols and i doubt pujols wants to be a DH player for the remainder of his career. It might be between Bosox and Mets. If the mets are able to trade beltran this or next season, i can see them freeing up some money and going all in for a 1b who is in my view the best over all player in this generation.
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The Yanks could absolutely afford Pujols, but it would make ZERO sense to do it. Neither Pujols nor Texeira are going to be pushed to DH any time soon. I wouldn’t count out the Angels, Cardinals, Giants, Cubs or Mets. I don’t know how the Cards are going to be able to afford Pujols and Holliday but I have to believe that they’ve discussed something with Pujols already OR are willing to go all in with him on an extension. I don’t think they could justify to their fan base giving $18 mil x 7 to Holliday and then allowing Pujols to walk because they weren’t willing to go $25 mil per on an offer. Giants and Angles should be in on him as well if the Cards haven’t locked him by then. For the Giants, this could be their Barry Bonds of the future and I could see them splurging on him big time, especially since Zito might be towards the end of his deal. The Cubs are my “dark horse” for Pujols. I know that would be a heartbreaking thing to do to the Cards and Pujols would absolutely destroy any St. Louis legacy, but with Ramirez, Fukodome, Dempster, Lilly, Lee and Silva coming off the books by the end of 2011 that represents about $80 mil coming off the books. Soriano and Zambrano will be towards the end of their mega deals shortly after 2011 so maybe they view Pujols as an affordable acquisition?
as a cubs fan i love this trade… the cards have always been tight with there money… and i still think they will after this year they will have to let some players go to get pujols under contract however i think pujols is a amazing guy and think he will help the team rather then hurt it ya know.. he will take w/e they will give him… as a cubs fan i just think its a scary deal we do that every year and it hurts us lol… but it should be a fun year im jus ready to get it started!!!! Good luck Cards fan i respect you guys alot.. you guys are amazing fans
damn a decent cubs fan, i thought you guys liked to pour beer on players when there catching the ball, good luck to you to, go cards best move in recent history
to bad its not a trade huh? lol 🙂
this is a good deal for the cardinals but better for holliday and boras. now they can deny a trade after they win a championship with him and try to trade him to save money for pujols. for the cardinals this is good because he dominates in the nl and sucks in the al. if the red sox or my yanks signed him to play in the toughest division in baseball they would be dumb.
What’s Pujols going to get? 30 million per?
yea, from somewhere. I honestly do think he tests the market. We know that the Yanks are out, but almost every other team could use him(obviously) and could have a spot for him. I think he starts the bidding above Arods # and it goes up to 300M.
About him staying a Cardinal, it simply doesnt happen a lot with these great players and all the money out there. I wouldnt be shocked if he does sign a huge extension, but i also wouldnt be suprised if he tests the market…
Damon…….come home.
well isn’t it about time!!!!!
17 Million a year for Halliday and around 17 million for Bay, its okay i guess. Its not a case of over payed. Hes kinda like Arod. Both steroid users 🙂
What a terrible mistake…They are really gonna regret this contract in a couple years.
If we make a couple World Series appearances and maybe win one we won’t care if the last 2 years we are overpaying him.
nice prediction
It won’t be a good deal for the Cardinals if this deal doesn’t allow them to resign Pujols. In my opinion 7/120 is too much money for Holliday. Also this is why Boras is so freaking good. The best paid man in baseball is called Boras
Of course, this deal will hamper them from signing the pieces they need to get over the top and win a WS, so its got that going for it too. You don’t give mediocre defensively corner OFs 7 years deals in their 30s. They basically outbid themselves by 2-3 years and maybe $40 million.
I am a Cardinal Fanatic, but I’m a little squirmish on this deal. It would look a lot better to me had we not traded for him so we still had Brett Wallace as insurance on Pujols’ elbow. That is the only thing that could keep us from a division title next year. Mariners-Cardinals World Series anyone?
How are the Mariners getting past the BoSox and Yankees?
How are the Cards getting past Philly?
So your saying there are only 3 teams that have a chance at the World Series?
No, I’m pointing out that neither team is the favorite in its respective League.
I don’t think the Cardinals are too far behind the Phillies….the Mariners are a couple steps behind the Bosox and Yanks but I believe we are pretty even with the Phils
THANK GOD
Damon’s options are disappearing fast. He willl be back for 2/12 with the Yanks, thanks Cards
This is a great point. I don’t know about the Yanks as the Braves, Giants and maybe even the Angels jump in at the right price. Nonetheless, it looks like Damon or Dye are gonna be left standing when the music stops.
I’m not liking this deal for St. Louis all that much to be honest. 7/120 for someone who honestly isnt a guarantee to produce as they are expecting. I think he is a really good player and hate to bring it up, but his numbers outside of Coors arent that spectacular. I know he had an amazing 2 months last year for the Cardinals but he had alot more to play for than he does now. Wouldnt it have possibly been better to get about 3 guys on one year deals who will help even more this year (Damon,Lopez,Tejada etc.) and then get a pair of the top guys next year like maybe a pair of Crawford,Hawpe,Peralta,Dunn etc. Just something to think about.
St. Louie is going to be pissed once he gets injured like the Rockies or starts off slow like he did in Oakland. I know I’m a Cubs fan we have are own problems with a 5+ year 100 million dollar man.
I guess the projected line up will be
Rotation
Wainwright
Carpenter
Lohse
Penny
Garcia/ Hawksworth
2B- Skip Schumaker
CF- Colby Rasmus
1B- Albert Pujols
LF- Matt Holliday
RF- Ryan Ludwick
C- Yadier Molina
3B- David Freese
SS- Julio Lugo
Not much better then the Cubs though
Zambrano
Lilly
Wells
Dempster
Gorzelanny
RF- Kosuke Fukudome
SS- Ryan Theriot
1B- Derrek Lee
3B- Aramis Ramirez
LF- Alfonso Soriano
CF- Marlon Byrd
C- Geovany Soto
2B- Jeff Baker/ Mike Fontenot
i would say the cards lineup is alot better,
Sure, if you’re a homer you’d say that. There’s a few “homer” comments like that I see here.
“Not much better than the Cubs”
That is a ridiculous statement. The Cardinals have better pitching 1 -4 in the order and every batter is stronger with perhaps the exception of Brendan Ryan. Cubs fans should probably look to the other side of town for the next two years and the next 4 if Pujols resigns.
yadier bats number 7, freese 6, Brendan ryan starts over lugo at short, bats ninth ( its a weird thing La russa likes to do batting pitcher 8th).
and Carpenter is still the number one starting bearing injurys of course. Even if the cubs players to bounce back to their career lines, cardinals line up is still better lol. and Soriano is a lost cause, which cubs,cardinals,brewers, every other fan in baseball all already know.
Not quite sure how the Cubs and Cards are pretty similar when the Cards have 2 pitchers that are better than any Cubs pitcher and 2 hitters that are better than any Cubs hitter.
Im not sure Nepp, I’d just love to see it.
BTW Chris, B Ryan is the SS, not Lugo. Pretty good besides that, barring future moves.
the cubs starting pitching cant match the cards at all and the cubs lineup is weak compared to ours buddy, your cursed. cubbies suck. admit it soriano is a leaping fairy over payed, fans pour beer on players when they try to catch the ball
How much money will he lose for singing in 2010 instead of 09
rasmanian_devil, like the name, he is a beast, edmonds glove was better but colby has time to inprove, not saying its bad
Damon may return to the Evil Empire, but most likely only for one year, seems to me the Yanks are saving their scratch to employ a second C.C.
the yanks are saving there money for crawford and or mauer prolly both though,
I’m holding out for the possibility that Mauer goes to the Sox. 😛 but yeah the yanks are waiting to strike again, like last year…
Thanks Cards, maybe we can petition his fan club to have it be his official nickname. When I typed his name into google to get the pic the first thing to pop up was “colby rasmus girlfriend” like all these peeps are trying to find out if he was single. What a life!
If its a 7 year deal as is being tossed around … not sure this is a great deal. The short term results should be awesome … but I think that when he hits his mid 30’s … those last couple of years of the deal could be a real albatross
yeah not a bad life at all. i would take it no doubt
Doesnt anyone on here think that albert will sign a smaller contract to stay in st. louis where we have the best fans in the world? he has been saying it his whole career. he will sign for right around 20 million a year and be perfectly content not taking the yankees 40 million a year (assuming he hits free agency which i highly doubt). i wouldnt be surprised if he resigns this offseason or next offseason.
if that happens, i could imagine it being something like a payment grant after his retirement differeing about 1-2million dollars a year after his retirement for about 15 years to make up for what he didnt earn in his lifelong prime. would be a real merit to the fans and the city.
I see him potentially getting an ownership position (likely what will happen to Manning in Indianapolis). Albert was behind the scenes on this one saying to Mo; I can be reasonable, build the team. He is a Cardinal forever, and we are in contention for the next 7 years.
can we stop with the whole “best fans in the world”, its embarrassing.
Anyone who’s read a St. Louis Cardinals message board knows that they’re far from being “the best fans in the world”…
Cards no doubt have better team. Cubs couldve had good team, but with players like Soriano, Fukudome who are busts, isn’t good enough. And their rotation isn’t solid.
sounds like a very fair vesting option.
Good call O’s fans. Your proposed lineups really helped!
yup and your(fans) proposed line ups with holliday and john lackey were a big lift as well.
If I’m an NL Central beat writer and Matt Holliday is on the decline by the end of the contract, I’m voting him #1 for MVP in 2016 so that it gives a much better chance of his option vesting and the Cardinals being hamstrung with that $17 million.
then you would be fired and lose your job. really now..unless he actually somehwhat earns being in the top 10..he wont be on it.
wow…Pujols is going to ask for something like a 7-8 year deal…220 million dollars plus
that sounds fair to me. 8 year 210 million. 26.25million annual.
finally the market can start rolling..free agents will start signing left and right especially sense so many FA’s were boras clients.
Now go and get tejada!!!!!!
i think the offense is pretty good..lets go and get valverde!!!!
tejada pujolis, holliday,ludwick wow!!!!!
tejada grounds into about 20 dang double plays a season, that sort of negates any positives he MIGHT have left in his bat…
One thing that Pujols has constantly stated throughout his career is that he wants to be on a winning team. This above all decides where he will sign and not money. He wanted management to show that they are committed to winning. By doing this they have shown their commitment not only to the team but to Pujols himself in turn. I have no doubt that he will resign with the Cards and show commitment to them.
Just don’t expect him to make less than Holliday. Respect comes first.
Not a great, not a terrible deal. Holliday is a 17 mil per year player if he can keep up his good defense (yes, it is good!) and a .315/25 HR season (though I wouldn’t be surprised to see those numbers be a little bit better playing a full-season in the NL). They’re getting a player who has averaged 6 wins a season since 2006.
The more I think about it, the more I like the deal for the Cardinals – only assuming they have enough money to resign Pujols when the time is right.
Better than Bay
Bay’s probably the better bang for the buck though. If Holliday flops or, heaven forbid, gets seriously hurt, the Cards are screwed for over half a decade. Can you get insurance on these things?
big bucks
Overrated player, but the Cards needed somebody to protect Pujols in that lineup. As long as this doesn’t interfere with a Pujols extension, this is a good move for the Cardinals. I see them winning the NL Central again, easy. Especially with a full year of Holliday.
If overrated is being on the short list of players with .300 avg/.400 OBP/.500 Slg last 3 years I will take it.
Not your prototypical cleanup hitter…but he fits with StL perfectly.
Exactly
What will it take to sign Puljos 35 million a year?
pujols said he would take a home town discount if we keep talent around him, i think matt is the talent hes wanting, so i think he will take what we could afford 22-25 a year.
that would absolutely be amazing…though unlikely..discount might be about 25million from the 30million he could make in the FA market.
LaRussa went out and got the guy he wanted all along, I like that the organization stuck with their choice. Thats a deadly 1-2 with Holliday and Pujols, plus Dave Duncan is practically christ-like in his healing and 2nd chance pitchers. STL can always extend the pitchers and trade, simple as that. Loads of value in arms and a savior pitching coach. Not a bad position to be in. Who cares how much they tie up in 1, 2, 3, 4 players, its not your money so stop budgeting it. Where will that get you? I like that they put money into a guy like Holliday, at a lower than Boras-like price, with an incentive based 7th year. Shows a commitment to win in my opinion to the 4th highest attendance (STL fans) in the MLB.
Love the idea of Tejada in that lineup and clubhouse. I have been advocating Tejada and Holliday all along, Ludwick would just be the icing on the cake! Tejada will be off the books by Pujols FA.
j marino, holliday puts up just as good of numbers as tex and he makes more money, so i think you got the overated player
teix is far superior….no question.
I know Albert Pujols says he doesn’t care, but a guy on the same team making more money has to get him thinking a little bit. Will the Cards have enough resources to retain Pujols in 2012 assuming they pick up his option in 2011 (which they will). 7 Years 120 Million Holliday7 Years 100 Million PujolsDoesn’t seem to add up……
pujols has shown consistently over his career that he is not all about money. once again, i think he gives the cards the hometown discount= 20-25 mil a year. i do think this causes the cards to either lose wainwright or carp in the long run. however, i also think blake hawksworth could be the next waino with dominant stuff. like another poster said above, i think it is a win for the cards if they win a world series under hollidays contract. then, no one is questioning whether holliday got too much.
Carpenter won’t be resigned to another long term deal anyway. Maybe 2-3 years but at his age, it’s doubtful that it’d go past that.
I think a likely scenario for resigning Pujols will be about 5 mil more the Holliday. He’d be the highest paid player on the team by 5 mil and give him an 8 yr deal to finish out with. That would put another year then Holliday. That’s what 176 mil over 8 years. That’s 39 mil a year on the books and closer to 1/3 of our annual spending as upposed to 50% that many on here say it will represent. I hope that’s where it pans out at, but I can see it being between 25-30 mil per. Then give him some kind of option like Wakefield has in Boston, but to a larger scale. Come back as long as you like for this much. He’s one of four guys who will be talked about forever in Cardinals Folklore. Stan, Gibby, Ozzie and Albert. I know it’s far fetched, but I like the idea of letting him go out on his terms in the end. He deserves that much if he stays with the club for a discount.
Looks like the Cardinals bidded against themselves. Who were those ” mystery ” teams??? Probably some mystery teams that Boras made from an ” imaginary ” source in his head…
By the end of the 2010 offseason, Pujols will sign a 200M/10YR contract.
So he’s going to be paid less annually then ARod, Sabathia, Santana, Manny, Tex, and Halladay?
I’d be shocked to see him make more than all those guys. Albert knows he’d handcuff the Cardinals if he made 30 mil a year.. He doesn’t want that. He wants to win more than anything. He’ll definitely get paid lots of money, and I expect to see some kind of deferred money in his deal.. but it won’t be the richest contract in baseball.
Holliday switching to number 7 out of respect for Jimmy Ballgame. He also notes that he likes the number 7 because of Mickey Mantle, who is also from Oklahoma.
Holliday Changed his number to 7… haha i like it. I guess it was either 7 or 120,000,000.
bad signing lol
bad signing lol