This week's report that there's "no chance" the Pirates trade ace Paul Skenes, just one and a half seasons into his six-year window of club control, stood out as fairly obvious for most onlookers. That anyone felt it needed to be said at all was more a reflection on the organization as a whole than Skenes himself.
Pittsburgh has taken a step back this season, sitting on pace to win 56 games after winning 76 games in both 2023 and 2024. A rebuild that has seen the Bucs pick ninth or better in five consecutive drafts, including No. 1 overall in 2021 and 2023, has not only failed to produce a contender -- it's failed to even produce a farm system that ranks in the top third of MLB. The team at Baseball America ranked the Pirates with MLB's 16th-best system prior to this season. Keith Law of The Athletic did the same. MLB.com's trio of Jim Callis, Jonathan Mayo and Sam Dykstra ranked the Bucs 14th. ESPN's Kiley McDaniel was more bearish, ranking them 20th.
The Pirates already fired manager Derek Shelton. General manager Ben Cherington can't feel as secure as he did a few seasons ago. Owner Bob Nutting bears the brunt of the blame; his refusal to invest in the roster leaves the front office and coaching staff zero margin for error. Nutting's overwhelmingly frugal nature also leaves veritably no chance that Skenes will be signed long-term.
Just because a trade at some point down the road feels inevitable, however, does not mean it'll happen this year. That's never seemed likely, and while the "no way, no chance, no how" quote was from a Pirates executive who preferred to remain anonymous rather than place their name on those words, GM Ben Cherington soon offered a similar sentiment on the record.
The Pirates, for all their warts, are still a pitching-rich organization. The name at the very top of the pyramid may not be on the move, but the Pirates will have no shortage of pitchers who are legitimately available this summer. There's always a broad range of "availability." Pure veteran rentals will probably be aggressively shopped. Pitchers signed/controlled through 2026 will presumably be available but with a higher price tag. And there will be some arms with even more club control on whom the Bucs will listen but not outright dangle to contenders seeking to bolster their own staffs.
Let's run through some of the likely available inventory.
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Skenes!
I changed my mind. I’d option Skenes down to the minors because he needs to work on his defense. 😜 Need to get that service year back.
The Pirates should just rip off the Band Aid and set Skenes free and trade him to the Cubs before the inevitable TJ Surgery they’ll need him to get after they ruin him. At least trade him to the American League and the Orioles maybe. They seem like they need a good P.
That would only be the beginning for BAL. They need an entire rotation.
Keller, Bednar, Ferguson, Falter, Heaney.
If you get a sufficient return, trade all of them.
The Bad Market Pittsburgh fan base will moan that it’s a salary dump, but they’re going to moan no matter what the Pirates do simply because it was the Pirates who did it.
We want to win. Stop worrying about this team and worry about yours. You don’t know what it’s like
The Pirates ARE my team.
That doesn’t keep me from recognizing and speaking the truth about the historically bad Pittsburgh market for baseball.
We had a Rox fan in here pretty frequently. When I argued for a rebuild, he was adamant that it was better to hope for .500 than to invest 2-3 of a painful rebuild.
That’s a personal choice of course, but as a Raiders fan, sometimes you have to rip off the band aid.
They never seem to get anything with these deals though, just faraway prospects or bums who are organizational filler. I wouldn’t be opposed to a trade of 1-2 of them, but think about Ashcraft or Harrington as well. Harrington has fringe mlb stuff, Ashcraft is inconsistent and never built up innings.
Yeah, there’s nothing about Harrington that screams “keeper”. At best he’s long man out of pen. And he’ll be the cheapest guy in the pne. I assume Heaney will be in demand. Not sure I’d move Falter as he’s still controllable and even with promotions of Chandler and Burrows, Falter is the only LHP in rotation.
Tricky dicky troll muted…he’s a broken record
General manager Ben Cherington can’t feel as secure as he did a few seasons ago. Owner Bob Nutting bears the brunt of the blame;
==========================
No.
That Nutting has under-invested doesn’t mean that BC hasn’t also done a bad job. Skenes was the automatic choice, but BC has very little else to show for his drafts, and I cannot think of any international draftees of any importance.
Joe;
Agreed.
Boy, MLBTR hops on a screwball narrative and the kids eat it up.
“Jon Heyman of the New York Post spoke to an unnamed Pirates executive who flatly told him, “No way, no chance, no how,” when the possibility of a Skenes trade was broached”. This quote from an MLBTR article the other day”. Now MLBTR – as usual – is speculating off of a flawed article.
First, Jon Heyman is a rumor monger that lives for clicks. He has next to zero credibility. Next, what would a reasonable person that follows baseball think an “unnamed Pirates executive” would say to such a question? This is a story?
Finally, clearly the Pirates latest rebuild has been a failure. So the question is: Does the FO stay past this season? But before the owner can make a decision on that, the bigger question is: What potential FO head wants to work in that environment? (This is will also apply to what will surely be an opening in Baltimore as well.) Then we have the looming shutdown whereby sports fans in at least half the MLB markets are fed up with the disparity in their teams revenue and the subsequent ability to sign and retain superior players….and those fans have teams in either/or the NFL and NBA where they have equal crack at players. Expect that lockout/strike to be a long one.
In short, Speculation that this point is premature.
–
On my part: this is the worst season I’ve seen in MLB in years. Sloppy, dumb baseball is being played just about everywhere. Fundamentally strong young players such as Jacob Wilson of the A’s are in short supply. Add in the never-ending TJ surgery’s because of the way pitching is played and coached, along with the virtual team rosters in the high minors that result in endless player transactions, and fans in all cities that attend to other things in their lives for 2 weeks during the season come back and find their local team has changed a bunch of players so it’s hard to keep up….not to mention what that opposing teams have done the same meaning that the average MLB fan/consumer is lost.
who wouldve thought a certain japanese baseball player would make a 60 year old man ramble on like this about how much he hates the state of the game?
Contracts;
Who would have thought a sports fan from Chicago could be so shallow?
Searching high and low for the “certain japanese baseball player”.
Unfortunately, critical thinking and an understanding of history is lost on the majority. Fortunately, some stand up.
Samuel
What potential FO head wants to work in that environment?
==========================
Anyone looking for a job.
If the rumors were true, then Kim Ng is an idiot for turning down an interview with Boston. These jobs seldom open up, and there are probably 30 people waiting in line for a shot.
Sammy, Why tell everyone how much you hate mlbtr, while simultaneously saying you hate your life choices? YOU. LIVE. HERE.
Thank mlbtr for your life!
Buster Heyman is much more reliable!🤣
Mobile (via app) says I’m logged in, but I can’t see the full article, gents. A blimp, I’m sure but I wanted you to know.
Poor Pittsburgh. That’s a great baseball city with one of the best parks in MLB. But they’re over-the-top cheap and marquee players, regardless of the money, will never go there. Nor will anyone with billions upon billions of dollars buy the club.
Pittsburgh is an historically bad market for baseball.
RichardJarzynka, just go back to the FOB Sports blog and spout your broken record claims of Pittsburgh being a “bad market” over there, will you?
2728-Richard is like a troll.
If we just ignore him he will eventually go away.
You keep on reading my comments and responding to them. And I think you very well may keep on reading my comments – unless you mute me.. But that might be like saying that you can’t stop yourself from reading my comments. once you see that I’ve posted.
Provide some evidence that Pittsburgh is NOT a bad market for baseball. Provide some evidence that Pittsburgh is a good market for baseball.
I’ve got plenty of evidence to show that Pittsburgh is a bad market:
In 2015, when the Pirates won 98 games and went to the playoffs for the third straight time, their attendance was 9th in the 15 team National League.. The Brewers were 68-94, that year, and had a higher attendance than the Pirates.
In the early 1990s, they couldn’t sell out NL Championship Series games.
In 1979, when they won the World Series, they were 10th of 12 NL teams in attendance.
In 2023, they ranked 26th in total revenue – including revenue sharing money they received.
In 2024, they LOST money.
They’ve had to take out loans over the past few years to cover their spending.
But you keep on saying the same thing Richard.
You are a one trick pony.
I personally think as such you may be a very very young poster who believes all of the garbage that you read.
You really bring nothing new to your posts.
In a way it is quite sad.
Thanks., Mendoza.
Not as sad as Samuel.
It’s because you harp on the same theme and are extreme on it.
You seem intelligent enough to generally make good comments otherwise.
Since you’re citing 2015, in that year the Pirates tied for 9th with the Yankees in terms of selling out stadium capacity at 80.4%.
They averaged >30.8K that year in a park that only holds 38K. That they finished 15th in overall attendance while being only the 28th largest MSMA alone indicates they over performed as a baseball market.
@richard how do you figure?
Thank you for asking..
First, I must say that I know there are a number of diehard Pirate fans in Pittsburgh. The problem is that there just aren’t nearly enough of them – even when the team has been very good.
In 2015, when the Pirates won 98 games and went to the playoffs for the third straight time, their attendance was 9th in the 15 team National League.. The Brewers were 68-94, that year, and had a higher attendance than the Pirates.
In the early 1990s, they couldn’t sell out NL Championship Series games.
In 1979, when they won the World Series, they were 10th of 12 NL teams in attendance.
Truth be told Nutting prefers to be in a constant state of rebuilding. Winning is just too expensive. I bet he dreams at night about what it would be like if Mike Elias was his PBO.
I’ve heard several people lately preface their criticism of Nutting for being a terrible baseball owner by saying he’s a good businessman.
No.
His dad died and he was gifted a bunch of businesses that he bleeds dry while mismanaging them.
Anyone with even one thousandth of an iota of business savvy would invest (even a little) in this team during the Skenes window, but all he knows how to do is bleed it dry.
Bob Nutting was a worth $1B 20 years ago and he’s worth $1.1B today. That doesn’t even keep up with inflation. He’s really not a great businessman.
You’re his accountant? Or financial advisor? Or wife?
@Major I’m someone assuming that broad publicly reported information is correct.
It’s actually kind of crazy, Nutting was a top 10 richest owner in 2009, he’s a bottom 5 today.
Actually not crazy if you consider a large portion of Nutting’s wealth is Ogden Newspapers (54 dailies, 84 weeklies, shoppers and magazines), which is not a growth asset. Newspapers and shoppers have seen declining ad revenue since the introduction of the Internet and are projected to lose even more. If you had the choice of assets, this would not be your choice.
Not a defense of Nutting. IMHO, billionaires have too much money regardless of who they are or what they claim to have done.
To Pirates fans:
Do you think the Pirates would trade Johan Oviedo back to the Cardinals for Nolan Gorman? Is that close?
The Cardinals have no place to play Gorman. Even if they somehow manage to trade Arenado, Donovan goes to 3B and Saggese or even possibly Wetherholt takes over at 2B. But the Pirates need cheap power and maybe Gorman finally puts it together with regular at bats.
The Cardinals could use Oviedo as a reliever whenever he returns this season and build him back up as a starter in the offseason. It seems like a trade that works for both sides to me.
Don-I doubt it,and neither team may want it.Oviedo is coming off a major arm injury.The Pirates need outfielders and have infielders as good as Gorman.
Yes,he does have some power,but strikes out way too much.Plus,he is having a bad year this year.
If Oviedo comes back healthy and gets a little more consistent,he could be a decent #3 starter.
And there is a reason that Gorman does not have a position.
Totally fair. Though I’m thinking the Cards might like Oviedo more than other teams because of our past association. So maybe Burleson? He could play left while Reynolds moves to right. Or Burly could handle right, he has a solid arm. He would be one of the Pirates best hitters, day one.
Mendoza nailed. Just can’t pass up a chance to talk with a mlbtr legend. You think Gorman is better than Gonzales? I don’t and he would have to be better. TJ is getting close to MLB ready and likely even better. 2b is it for Gorman it seems. Pirates have Triolo for utility and soon to be Gonzales as well.
Pirates will trade anyone if Nutting lets them. Get Oviedo for a younger reliever or prospects. Shouldn’t take anything crazy. Although I would just trade for a reliever and sign a starter for next year. Cards are doing well now but by deadline they may be sellers. Hopefully they keep winning for you and if they do just trade for a reliever instead of a guy coming back from injury.
I do think Gorman is better than Gonzales. I’m not just biased. I have watched Gonzales and several other Pirates prospects in Indy and I have to be honest, I’m not impressed. I have not seen Termarr Johnson yet, but I’ve heard he has really struggled since being drafted. I don’t consider Gorman a second baseman anyway. I think there’s a better than average chance Pittsburgh trades Hayes at the deadline. Gorman could slot right in at 3B. I’m also not sold on Horowitz, 1B could also be a spot for Gorman.
Either way, the Cardinals have a logjam of major league ready position players. I’m sure there is a trade that could benefit both clubs involving Oviedo. The whole same division thing shouldn’t be an issue if it truly fills needs for both teams.
I don’t know if same division matters and if so why. You don’t have much of a team if you are worried about your competition getting Norman Oviedo. Just guys to me. I don’t think Gonzales is anything just feel same about Gorman. Just guys. Average solid players that are better than nothing but not a real difference maker.
Hayes is just a guy. Doesn’t seem like Pirates fans would miss him. Pirates pretty much just have Skenes and Cruz. Everyone else is expendable.
There’s no guarantee that they will keep Burrows at the parent club if Heaney is indeed traded
Oviedo might be used as trade bait but they aren’t likely to trade within their division
That’s not Cherington’s style
Heaney will be traded. If not everyone needs fired but that’s nothing new.
If they care about in division trades they all need fired. But how do you think they got Oviedo?
One of two things needs to happen:
Lock up Skenes for a ridiculous contract that he can’t say no to and hope good drafting and FAs are willing to play for a discount but opportunity to play with him, or…
Trade him for a team’s farm system because they’ll need it to climb out. Boston would be a good example – they have a couple of top tier prospects while Skenes would be a scary addition with Crochet.
Trade him for Soto and have the Mets pay Soto.
All you have to do is offer Skenes 120 130 140 million. He gives up 2 free agent years for being set for life. If he rejects you use him for 2 or 3 more seasons and trade him. It’s a win win for Pirates. But extension is win win for both.
Yea but the money sounds good, but you don’t mention the years. I would say 140 million for 5 years…then see what happens. After 5 years he will be 28…by then if the pirates have mismanaged the team. Either you offer him an extension or trade him. My thoughts are that after the 5 years,the pirates will be contenders. As I said he would be 28. Offer him another 5 years at 300 million.
Cosmo-Did you say five years ago that the Pirates would be contenders by now?
MLB SHOULD FORCE Ownership of many MLB ballclubs who do not have business knowledge and/or financial wherewithal to compete in MLB:
TO SELL THEIR FRANCHISES TO OWNERSHIP GROUPS WHO KNOW WHAT THE FRIDAY THEY ARE DOING.
Need Quality Owners who are well funded, who know how to build a strong Front Office and Scouting Department, have loads of cash and not afraid to spend it when the time to throw open that window of contention is there.
And, Owners should have business skills and not just living off inherited money and just wasting their fans time, money and loyalty on bad decisions, bad product, incompetent decision-making and management.
Athletics, Pirates, Rockies, Rays, Marlins, Angels etc…
Bad Ownership, Bad Management, Underfunded Ownership groups AND DETRIMENTAL DECISIONS BEING MADE BY MLB OWNERSHIP AND COMMISSIONER’S OFFICE ARE DRAGGING THOSE TEAMS DOWN.
I am sorry but you contradict yourself. You want ownership that has “business knowledge”. Part of business knowledge is knowing that you can’t keep operating a business by constantly dumping in money and overspending your revenue. What you are proposing is charity, owners should finance your entertainment.