This week's mailbag gets into PTBNL trades, the Brewers' recent trade history, the Mariners' inactivity, and questions about players such as Jordan Romano, Andy Pages, and Brett Baty.
Scott asks:
When a trade happens that includes a Player to be named later or cash considerations, like between the Red Sox and Brewers, how is it determined which goes - a player or cash? Seems like that would have to be predetermined to ease the negotiations, but the implication in the title implies it's a decision to be made later?
I posed Scott's question to an team executive friend, and he kindly gave a great in-depth reply. Here it is:
"There are two PTBNL / Cash constructs that are most common. The first is where one of the clubs involved in the trade gets to choose one or more players from an agreed upon list. The agreed upon list is determined at the time of the initial trade. The club receiving the PTBNL has the right to instead receive “alternative cash considerations” that cannot exceed $100k. The option to receive cash comes into play only if the club with the right to receive the PTBNL decides they don’t want any of the players within the previously agreed upon grouping. This outcome could occur if one or more of those players suffers an injury or other plight whereby they are no longer of interest to the club holding the right to acquire them. By way of example, if Team A has the right to pick either Player X or Player Y as the PTBNL, but both players have suffered significant injuries since the time the trade was agreed upon, then Team A might rather take the cash rather than an injured player.
The second primary construct where you see a PTBNL or Cash involved in a trade occurs if the trade is really just for cash, but the team set to receive the cash wants to “dress it up” a little bit. This situation could occur if the team is trading away a notable player and needs to make it look like there’s a more significant return than simply money coming back their way. In these situations, the two clubs involved in the trade can agree to phrase the trade as a PTBNL or Cash despite both clubs agreeing that the return will be cash only.
A PTBNL is not always a low-level player. The only restriction is that a PTBNL cannot be someone who has appeared on an active Major League roster between the time the trade was agreed to and the time he is sent to his new club."
Zack asks:
How long of a leash should the Phillies have with Jordan Romano? He has lost velocity on his fastball and slider and he looks shaky when on the mound. Maybe it's a mechanics issue he can work through? He looks like he's searching for his form on the mound, I hope he can figure it out as we need him!
The tough thing is that Romano arguably hasn't been an effective reliever since June of 2023. Rob Thomson hasn't used Romano in the club's highest-leverage situations thus far, but he still was Dave Dombrowski's main offseason bullpen addition.
Romano's elbow inflammation surfaced in March 2024. He debuted in mid-April last year but was done after 15 appearances once the injury resurfaced. He wound up having arthroscopic elbow surgery in early July. The Blue Jays, who knew Romano best, didn't want him back at what would've likely been his same $7.75MM salary. Around the Winter Meetings, Dombrowski gave Romano about $750K more than that.
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There is no more useless stat than a Quality Start. If you want to make the Win a viable pitching stat let the official scorer decide who the winning pitcher is and who gets the save. A Starter can pitch 7 innings and leave with the lead and then the reliever loses the lead and stinks only to see his team come back and win and gets the win? And a reliever can come in in the eighth inning with the bases loaded and no outs and a 3 run lead and gets out of it, Only to see the “Closer” Come in and give up 2 runs and stinks and he gets the “Save”? Let the supposed impartial Official scorer decide where those stats end up.
mike – Pitcher Wins is a lot more useless than Quality Start.
Pitcher Wins doesn’t differentiate between Runs Allowed and Earned Runs Allowed the way Quality Start does.
And Pitcher Wins doesn’t have a minimum innings pitched requirement, unlike Quality Start which requires a minimum 6 innings. There is nothing more laughable than a relief pitcher who comes into a game with 2 outs and his team is tied or behind, and a baserunner gets picked off base by the catcher to end the inning without the pitcher throwing even one pitch …. and then the relief pitcher ends up getting the win. That’s just ONE of many ridiculous situations where a pitcher is awarded a win.
The Save is less ridiculous than the Win because the goal of the closer is to preserve a lead, not to prevent runs from being given up. Pitchers do often pitch to the score.
Of all the official stats you mentioned, Quality Start is by far the most sensible.
The relief pitcher would not get the win in the situation you just described. A pitcher needs to be considered effective and not brief to get the win by the official scorer.
Mets – You mean like just last year when Newcomb got the win despite not officially facing any batters? Hahaha!!!!
No offense, but I’m the last person you should accuse of being wrong without you doing your due diligence first ;O)
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40405694/athletics-sean-ne…
Well the scoring decision was wrong and not in line with the official major league rules. I don’t know why you keep saying you are not the one to accuse of being wrong? You obviously don’t know what the league rules are for qualifying for a win.
mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/win
Mets – You are misreading the rules. I’ve already provided proof, but I will also nicely explain to you what you did wrong.
Just as your source specifies, there’s only TWO situations where the official scorer awards a win:
1) If the starting pitcher leaves with a lead that is never lost throughout the entire game, but he leaves without pitching 5 innings (quite common with the use of openers).
2) When a reliever who is the pitcher of record when his team takes the lead for good pitches briefly and is ineffective.
So in the case of Newcomb, you clearly ignored the part about pitching poorly. He obviously did NOT pitch poorly in that game, hence the reason for his getting the win.
Hope my detailed explanation helps :O)
This is rich, metsin4 insisting somebody else is wrong. Lol
In your proposed scenario FPG, how did the catcher get the ball to pick off a runner without the reliever throwing a pitch? Just a small hang-up I had, although your overall points are valid.
Gwynn –
“There’s no rule that prevents a catcher from throwing to a base to pick off a runner immediately after receiving the ball from the umpire”
Just now I tried to do a search indicating when the calling of time by an umpire to replace the baseball ends …. I couldn’t find anything on it though, but I’ve always believed the calling of time ends when the umpire hands the catcher the ball, not when the pitcher receives the new ball from the catcher. If I’m wrong please let me know, as sometimes rules do change :O)
New ball in play amidst an umpire timeout has always resulted in “me” (a pitcher) toeing the rubber. Umpires kept T/O until I stepped on the rubber, then at this point they would drop their arm/hand or they would give the finger gun/point. Ah dunno for sure for sure (Rules Book-wise) but this is how it always ended up. I could defo be wrong-o! Cheers Fevah
Gwynn – Thank you for the info, I appreciate it my friend!
Looks like Mets isn’t gonna give a mea culpa, that’s unfortunate.
Don’t hold your breath, he never does! Aloha braddha, be good.
Who decided that 3 runs in 6 innings is quality? He could have had the bases loaded 4 times and like you guys said had guys picked off base and that’s “Quality”? There is no more useless stat than that one. At least to me.
mike – The Quality Start Committee took a vote here about 7 years ago, that’s how they decided.
Maybe you were busy that day?
Nobody asked me if that’s what you mean. LOL
mike – Don’t feel bad, nobody asked me either ;O)
Actually I do agree with you the definition of Quality Start should be adjusted to maximum 2 earned runs in minimum 6 innings.
The way it stands now, a pitcher could have all 33 of their starts be quality starts and finish the season with a 4.48 ERA. That’s not quality to me, but adjusted down to 2 earned runs it’s a 3.00 ERA which represents a true “quality start” in my opinion.
Even maximum 2 earned runs in minimum 5 innings would be a 3.60 ERA which would be a reasonable requirement for “Quality Start”.
Philly paid big for a hurt guy instead of a cheap, good one in Coulombe.
Not sure 3% of a $285MM payroll qualifies as big money to them, especially when it came on a one year deal.
I never understood why the Orioles dumped Coulombe. They saved one million by choosing Perez over him, but early on it’s just looking like another one of Elias’ unforced blunders over the past year.
York – It does look like the Jays got the better of the free agent relief pitcher swap.
I can see why the MLB Network guys said Toronto has the best starting rotation and would win the division, they did a really nice job of rebuilding the bullpen. If they can stay healthy and maybe get Scherzer back, they could be a scary good team. They are on the verge of a 4-game sweep in Boston, quite impressive.
@Fever Pitch Guy
It’s a bit too early in he season to have an idea how teams will perform. Dodgers are now struggling in the past 6 games, going 2-4 against the Phillies and lowly Nationals. Yet, the Jays swept the Nationals but got swept by the Mets. Let’s see where the Jays are by mid-June. I still don’t think they have the offense to last the whole year but maybe I’m wrong.
York – Don’t the Dodgers have key injuries such as Freeman and Snell?
And the Mets were a NLCS team last year BEFORE signing Soto.
There’s a lot to like about the Jays pitching, they’ve got a solid track record …. as does Santander, Bo, Kirk and Vlad.
The wildcard for them is Springer, who knows if he can sustain any of his current success.
@Fever Pitch Guy
Well, it’s not like the Dodgers are struggling with talent on the team. Sure, Freeman is a big hit but they still have some decent talent on the team. As for Snell going down, if this was an average team or even a similar situation with the Yankees losing their ace, sure, that would definitely hurt, but the Dodgers could essentially have two sets of 5 man rotations right now. They have the depth at SP to deal with these situations. And it doesn’t look like any damage was done to Snell so I’d imagine he’s back either late April or early May.
And it’s not like the Jays are blowing teams out of the water, offensively. They have a +4 RD. Their wRC+ as a team is 106, the same as Boston. I’m not buying them yet as I don’t see their offense being that productive.
Toronto’s starters are getting lucky so far, as they post a 2.54 ERA but their SIERA sits at 3.65, essentially a run higher. It’s their bullpen that’s been unlucky, posting a 4.68 ERA but a 3.04 SIERA.
York – I think SOS should be a factor too. The Jays have had arguably the toughest SOS in MLB thus far ….. 4 vs Orioles, 3 @ Mets, 3 @ Sox.
If memory serves me, haven’t you posted your dislike of all things Canada? I think that may be influencing your perspective.
Regarding the Jays offense, the brutal weather conditions certainly favor pitchers. They’ve played in harsh conditions for 5 games in a row.
I can’t find a start of the Season SOS ranking but this site says that the Jays have the 8th weakest schedule going forward, based on standings today. Obviously, that changes each week, as a team could catch on fire and the W% of teams they face changes. O’s and Nationals aren’t really that great of teams so far this season. I said all throughout the offseason that I didn’t like the fact that the O’s didn’t really add to their team’s competitive window and they probably would struggle a bit this season. O’s aren’t the powerhouse everyone thinks they are.
tankathon.com/mlb/remaining_schedule_strength
I don’t think I have a bias against Canada, I just find that the Jays had a competitive window and they dropped the ball on adding some offense to be competitive. They doubled down on defense and aren’t really scoring a lot of runs. They’re in first so far because the rest of the East is pretty weak so far. Yankees have been decent but most of their offense came from that weekend series against MIL. Yankees struggle when they can’t hit HRs so far this year. If teams can keep the ball in the ballpark, there’s a good chance the team will win against the Yankees.
And as for weather, everyone is dealing with weather this early in the season. Maybe baseball shouldn’t start till May or all the stadiums should have roofs. I’d like to see a roof on Fenway Park… (LOL… just kidding).
York – Yeah it doesn’t really make sense to judge the strength of teams based on their current record.
The Red Sox just had 3 games against the weak Cardinals, and they’ve got 10 coming up against Tampa and the ChiSox ….. so I’m sure the Red Sox will be considered “tough competition” on April 22nd after their win total has been fattened.
I’m one of many in Red Sox Nation who wanted a retractable roof stadium 23 years ago. Baseball should not be played in 20° wind chill conditions. I really enjoy stadiums such as Globe Life, Rogers Centre, and even The Trop when it’s not topless.
@Fever Pitch Guy
The media keeps telling us that earth is warming up so if it’s true, you’ll have tropical weather in Boston year-round, soon enough. But then, you’ll probably complain about all the humidity and need a dome to be air conditioned.
York – Actually if that happens then Boston will be under water, because all the melting snowcaps and glaciers raise ocean levels.
But the Sox would just move to Polar Park, and become the third MLB team to play in a minor league stadium.
@OYork – First – it was a one year deal as an injury upside play. Some of them work and some don’t. Romano had a very solid track record and it is hard to criticize taking that shot. Plus, as it is April 10th any overall judgments might need to be postponed when it comes to how a player will work out.
My preference was to add another back of the pen arm as well, but I get that they were already well past their payroll and penalties comfort level. They will add someone at the deadline if no one else steps it up.
@CarverAndrews
I can’t seem to reply to you directly but thank you for the thoughtful response. You are correct to point out that it’s quite early as well.
I had thought player to be named later was also used if a player was not eligible to be traded yet. If I’m remembering correctly in some instances one of the players in trade that was agreed upon is yet to be eligible so isn’t officially named until eligible.
I’ve watched every Mets game this year. Soto is still a butcher out there. It’s shocking, really.
I’ve watched every Mets game and I have arrived at the opposite conclusion. He’s done pretty well out there and he’s made some damn good plays. Pursue your narrative at all costs, regardless.
Romano is lucky Thomson is his manager. He will keep putting him in situations where the game is on the line until Dombrowski gets rid of him as he did with Soto and Dominguez.
I forgot to send in a question for this mailbag.
Obviously the word “bust” is *far* too early to apply to Dylan Crews, but his start in MLB hasn’t exactly gone well, and he didn’t tear up pitching in the upper minors either.
Crews is now slashing .128/.171/.128 with a .299 OPS. Most disturbingly IMO, he’s K’d 16 times in 39 AB. His first 37 PA resulted in a -12 OPS+! In 39 games (119 AB) last season, Crews struck out 26 times. It appears that pitchers have adjusted to him since last season, and he hasn’t adjusted at all.
At what point do the Nats send him down to AAA for more work?
Can we have Crews for Baty and Acuna? Please!