Last week, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. told ESPN that his asking price in extension negotiations with the Blue Jays was south of $600MM. The star first baseman didn’t publicly identify his exact demand, though he noted he was looking for a 14-plus year deal.
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic provides more specifics, reporting that Guerrero wanted a net present value of $500MM to bypass testing the open market. That could have taken the form of an even $500MM+ without deferrals or a deferred deal with a loftier overall guarantee that would still have pushed the NPV to half a billion dollars. A hypothetical 14-year extension worth $500MM would come with an approximate $35.7MM annual value and would run through Guerrero’s age-39 season (assuming it began this year).
The deferrals were evidently a sticking point. Jon Heyman and Joel Sherman of The New York Post report that Toronto offered a deal that was in the $500MM range overall but included deferred money. According to that report, the NPV would have landed between $400MM and $450MM. Shi Davidi of Sportsnet writes that the NPV on the team’s offer was close to $450MM, suggesting they came in at the higher end of the range initially reported by The New York Post.
That would still have represented the third-largest guarantee in league history. Juan Soto easily holds the record at $765MM without deferrals. The Shohei Ohtani deal is respectively valued around $461MM and $438MM by the league and Players Association, respectively. Guerrero sought a number that would have placed him behind only Soto in net present value. His reported asking price was nowhere near Soto money, which so handily shattered prior precedent that it may be an outlier for a while. Still, it seemingly landed upwards of $50MM higher (in NPV terms) than the Jays were willing to go. Guerrero indicated he wasn’t interested in continuing negotiations beyond the opening of Spring Training. He has left the door open to reconsidering but said at the start of camp that he anticipates testing free agency.
The Jays have at least expressed a willingness to stretch the budget beyond Guerrero’s asking price for star players. They were seemingly willing to match the contract that Ohtani accepted from the Dodgers. Their precise offer to Soto isn’t clear but is believed to have been between $600MM and $700MM. That shows they’re not entirely averse to this kind of signing, yet it’s also a fact that the largest contract in franchise history remains the comparatively modest $150MM George Springer deal.
Toronto’s latest offer represents a significant jump from where they opened talks. Guerrero said over the offseason that the Jays’ offers before the Soto bidding were in the $340MM range. While the Soto price point didn’t make them willing to write a blank check for Guerrero, it seemingly contributed to them going $60MM+ above where they had been in terms of present value.
Guerrero is a career .288/.363/.500 hitter. He’s coming off his second-best season, as he raked at a .323/.396/.544 clip with 30 homers a year ago. At his best, he looks like one of the top five hitters in the game. He hasn’t quite maintained that level on an annual basis, though. He finished among the top six in MVP balloting in 2021 (finishing runner-up that year) and ’24. In the intervening two seasons, he hit .269/.341/.462 across nearly 1400 plate appearances. That’s still very good but not the kind of overwhelming numbers that’d force teams to essentially overlook questions about his defensive profile.
Assuming he gets to the market, Guerrero is likely to be the top free agent in the class. Kyle Tucker is arguably a better overall player, but the Cubs outfielder will hit free agency at age 29. Guerrero will get to the market at 27. The two-year age gap gives Guerrero the better chance to land a deal that stretches beyond a decade despite teams’ general reluctance to make extremely long commitments to first basemen.
If Vladdy said no to $500M offer even with some deferrals, this isn’t on the front office anymore for not signing him. This is on him.
Of course it’s on him…he knows another team will pay him more than the Blue Jays offered and he doesn’t have to pay as much Canadian tax.
Pete Alonso is on line 1. Ahahahahahaha!
NYC – I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets and Jays swapped first basemen after this season!
This is my favorite part of the article:
“He has left the door open to reconsidering but said at the start of camp that he anticipates testing free agency”
Translation: “If he’s having another season like 2023, ONLY THEN will he reconsider negotiating during the season”.
Fever-Obviously he’s betting on himself, maybe he kills in 25 but I still think this has albatross written all over it, sooner rather than later.
NYC – Yeah Prince Fielder was done at 32 and Cecil Fielder was done at 34 and Panda was done at 34.
I think it’s 50/50 that he’ll still be playing and productive 7 years from now.
This will be a great test to see how Soto’s deal effects other contracts. There is no way I pay VG to age 39 unless the deal is such that it recognizes a production reduction as he aged.
It’s cute that people still think this is a issue and that these guys don’t have accountants who are knowledgeable to help keep them taxes down
big – It’s also cute that people don’t realize he’s getting paid in US currency which is worth 44% more than Canadian currency.
Which means his $500M NPV contract would be worth $720M where he lives.
Is that $720M before of after tariffs?
Hiflew – Canada will be charging the 29 US MLB teams a 25% tariff on the electricity Vlad provides with his bat.
Did you read the article? HE was asking just over 500 million for 14 years. That mean you lock him up at 37.5 million a year for his entire career and that’s peanuts when he’s at the end of the deal. Heck it’s peanuts now. That’s a no brainer for a team that’s being shot down left and right by super stars Otani & Soto. Toronto needs to sign that man.
End of the year is when it’s not peanuts. You’d be paying 37.5 for a defensively limited 39 year old DH on a 14 year.
37.5 at ten years? Then yes. 12? Maybe. Not 14
Except that by 2028, he’ll weigh 289 pounds and be strictly a DH.
I’m not a Vladdy Jr. fan or even Blue Jays fan, but he’s trimmed down and looks in much better shape than before. Look at Bartolo Colon. Dude was like rubber and all blubber, even going back to David Ortiz and general DH—limited injuries. Again, as long as he doesn’t balloon, he’ll be a decent 1B and DH with big pop down the line. It’s not my money, but I think the Blue Jays need to overpay to convince other legit elite free agents to see how they’re part of a championship strategy.
Give.the man. Hissss.money!
Dude, Vladdy Jr. is barely worth $37.5M now, much less when he’s 39. He’s the type of hitter who ages poorly as well.
He’s a 4 win player, on average, who offers a very erratic return.
He’s essentially Rafael Devers, a hair better but Vlad can’t even fake 3B any more.
Does anyone think the Red Sox are thrilled with Devers’ contract?
$500,000,000.00 is NOT “peanuts”. In fact, neither is $37,000,000.00 for that matter. I don’t care how much of a philanthropist he may or may not be,HALF OF ONE BILLION DOLLARS for one person in the sports/entertainment industry is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY RIDICULOUS.
You would be fired after a year of being a GM lol.
Still the jays fault for letting the market develop like that before signing him.
No one is surprised by what Ohtani and Soto got
I don’t see a market for him at $500MM. The game simply doesn’t value 1B’man at anywhere near that dollar level. Soto got his crazy deal because both NY teams were bidding, hence the present day value went from $460MM for Ohtani to what will eventually be over $800MM for Soto. Not sure he even gets $400MM.
It’s on the front office for not trading him.
He’s going to regret not signing that deal.
Pay the man
Send your check now….
If yo pay the man you’re not gonna enough dough to pay the Blob. Ahahahahahaha!
Signing players to blank cheques is a good way to never win anything and end up with a fat loaf at 1b
No one worth that kind of money.
And 14 year? Please.
Years don’t matter. It’s total amount of the contract that matters.
Of course years matter. It can make a bad contract a good one if the NPV total is the same.
mazbilleroski:
I never understand this kind of comment. Isn’t a person worth with someone’s willing to pay them? If he’s not worth this, what is he worth? $500 million is not OK but $300 million is? Is $100 million OK? I mean, these values are all subjective.
Exactly. His worth/value is whatever someone is willing to pay him in order to employ him to entertain us. If it makes financial sense, then he’s worth it.
It’s absurd that guys swinging pieces of wood can make this much, but we can’t stop watching them swing pieces of wood.
That’s not at all how these Ivy League gms look at it. Surplus value you’ll hear about lot. These Ivy League gms have seen the trends. Couple years ago it was many years in a row where not a single team that won had a player making top 20 salary. Paying the top of the market on a limited guy like vladdy I can guarantee many of those Ivy League gms are going to shy away from.
That’s clearly not the case. If you pay $100 million for a flea-ridden doormat, you’ve wildly overpaid.
The ratty Welcome mat didn’t suddenly acquire some magical property just because someone was foolish enough to surrender a fortune for it.
Value is much, much more driven by consensus than by what a buyer in extremis will pay.
Respectfully, this sentence may have too many respectively’s.
“The Shohei Ohtani deal is respectively valued around $461MM and $438MM by the league and Players Association, respectively.”
I think the point your trying to make is that Vlad Jr. isn’t going to get 500M NPV. Ohtani brings an entire country of baseball fans with him, as he and all the Japanese players have that going for them to some degree.
Great player, great numbers, still a 1B/DH.
The A’s are paying Lawrence Butler and Brent Rooker about 7M this season, the Mets are paying Juan Soto 62M. I don’t see how any GM or team owner in baseball can make sense of that kind of contract outside of an Ohtani-like star which Vlad isn’t.
swinging: Hey! Show some respect!
They are respectfully very respectful about that.
Did it include the NPV of Kielbasa and a weekly delivery of it?
Food is important too
food is required for living things to survive
It is of singular importance…. to be clear
I think oxygen has some gripes for you. 🙂
I am telling you man, no kielbasa, no production!
He is more likely into Mangu with the Tres Golpes. By age 35 he will likely not be able to see his feet.
Some Dominicans have a secret love for ….. not just typical Dominican food
Is he worth more than Ohtani? Obviously not. So don’t pay him a higher NPV than Ohtani, let him test the market. If no other team wildly overestimates his value, maybe he’ll decide he’d like to revisit the $400M-$450M NPV offer next winter.
Except Ohtani is no longer available in a dynamic market and salaries continue to inflate. His value is what his eventual signing team will pay.
I have yet to see Ohtanj be a dynamic player in a Dodgers uniform, just an excellent DH
If the current MVP is not a dynamic player…..
“just an excellent DH” OK
That’s still a good strategy for him with the “meet in the middle” approach. Sure there’s inflation, but if Bryce Harper signed a 13-year, $330M deal to be RF/1B, $400m for Vladdy Jr. seems right given the timeframe.
Cant wait for a lineup with lindor soto vladdy next yr
Fat does not age well. Prove me wrong Vladdy Jr.
He literaly lost weight before last year and played much better.
“”Played much better”…The big body types are extremely risky on long term deals. When I see Vlade Guerrero Jr. I think “Panda” Pablo Sandoval , Prince Fielder, Giancarlo Stanton and Kris Bryant, all big body guys who broke down prematurely.
mlb fan: Vogelbach, Lynn, Kirk, Alvarez (Mets), Ruth, Rowdy…
Stanton? Bryant? I guess those are big guys, if that is the criteria, but more tall than out of shape. Bryant is thin even, but Stanton is the buffest guy in the game. Cannot really write Fielder and Sandoval with those guys, as neither of those guys were tall. Jeez why not just say McGwire then if we are making up body types.
That’s just until he signs, after that what ever city he’s playing in will be naming all you can eat buffets after him, maybe the Reds step up & you could call it, “The Fatty Vlady in Cincinnati” Ahahahahahaha!
Every Jays article you just consume yourself with dumping on the player or team, Get a hobby unless this is your hobby. Ahahahahahaha!
How many years do you give a guy who will weigh probably around 300 lbs in a few seasons.
He maintained a weight last year of about 20 lbs less than he had before. This year they say he looks the same or better. Maybe he has changed his approach to eating/bad habits?
Or maybe once he signs a long term huge money contract he’s no longer as concerned about staying in shape
I think he’s just one of these people whose weight will always be high even if he diets and drops 25 pounds. The weight will always come back.
Pass. Dude will suddenly get fat again the second that deal is signed
No chance I would pay Vlad Jr that much or lock him up that long. He’s a cheeseburger away from full time DH as it stands.
Paying him as if he’s a “generational player” is a huge overpay…..he’s good…at times very good….but certainly not as good as he is in his own mind…
Vladi will follow in his father’s footsteps and sign a deal with the Angels next winter, where he’ll go on to win an MVP in 2027, exactly 20 years after his dad.
Bad bet.
It just seems that he really does not want to stay in Toronto.
Right. I feel like those extension terms are a flashing neon “trade me now” sign.
I think the Blue Jays were smart here. They would have been smarter if they traded him and didn’t trade for Andres Gimenez.
Only a two-way player that pitched like Nolan Ryan and hit like Ted Williams would be worth that kind of money.
No chance he’s getting 500 million or close to it. I’m sorry but let’s have a real discussion here. He’s not Ohtani (not saying that any human being is worth 700 million), even Soto isn’t worth what the Mets unloaded out of Cohens bank account. I understand we all play around here like we’re the ones who are doling out the cash. So currently Vlad is already the highest paid 1B in a position that hasn’t been handing out large contracts in quite some time, and I know I’ll hear oh Harper got a large deal with 13 years. However he was not signed to be a 1B at the time. Teams have learned there lessons as those large 1B contracts have not panned out, for example Fielder Jr. Vlad is not Prince as he’s a career .288 hitter which is great. Hes less injury prone sure but he will be in the Freeman and Olson category for contracts. Those guys are proven studs who didn’t get a massive contract. Sorry Vlad you unfortunately play 1B which also unfortunately is considered a position that almost anyone can play. I’m predicting an 8 yr. 240 million dollar deal. AAV will be 2 million more than he makes now and it will put him at age 34 in line for one more contract to end his career. Giving someone 15 years is ridiculous. A lot can happen in 15 years. Most of those usually won’t be productive. Let’s be realistic
So, the market very recently valued Pete Alonso at well under $100M, but Vladdy is somehow worth $500M+ in present day value?
I understand Vlad is a few years younger and brings a slightly better batting average, but this discrepancy is ridiculously large. I think Vlad Jr. is in for a rude awakening if and when he hits the open market and finds that slow, portly power hitters are not as valued as they once were.
Well to be fair Vlad is a better hitter than Alonso, career average wise by 48 points. Hes a career .288 hitter. Still not worth 500 mill though lol
8yrs/260mil would be a lot for his age 27-34 seasons (throw an opt out after 4yrs hoping it will be exercised) while relatively certain the last couple years at least won’t be pretty. Some team that can outspend mistakes will probably go way overboard to “make a splash”…..phrase for being foolish.
I have a question about “net present value”. Is that calculation only considered when money is deferred until after the term of the contract or does it also consider the payment structure during the term of the contract?
For example, consider two hypothetical 12-year $240MM contracts, with different payment structures such as:
Contract A pays: 30/30/30/30/20/20/20/20/10/10/10/10
Contract B pays: 10/10/10/10/20/20/20/20/30/30/30/30
Does Contract A have a higher net present value since so much more would be paid in the early years of the contract compared to Contract B which is more back-loaded? Or would they both be considered to have a flat $240MM net present value because no payments would be deferred until after the end of the contract?
NPV in baseball terms is exclusively regarding the CBT, i.e., the AAV hit. The AAV hit is only different from the stated terms with deferred payments. Both of your extensions have the same AAV ($20M for 12 years), so a team’s preference would be the second contract.
The two year age difference is probably worth maybe $80M-ish? What do people think?
Admittedly I was wrong about him. I thought he was 500+ pounds, not worth 500+ million. I mean, the latter is still true, but if he can score big on an extension or in free agency, I bet you, this kid will be 500+ pounds in no time.
Why do you care to rush to comment about another man’s weight, it’s not funny or clever.
The guy probably knows 10 players in baseball, it’s all hes got.
The top 1B deal of all time is what? Technically Bryce Harper’s?
That was a few years ago and yes the market has gone wild, but you can’t 2x the biggest contract of all time at that position in that timeframe.
Jays should have traded him this offseason.
I can see history repeating itself. His father, the great Vlad “the Impaler” left a Canadian team for the Angels. Vlad Jr will follow suit.
So by that logic Bo Bichette will be a Rockie next year?
So, Soto and Ohtani have the 2 highest contracts in all of baseball history. What would Ruth get as a 27 year old FA in 2025? Even later, Hank Aaron?
Just something that bounced around in my head.
Lol. $55M AAV topping Soto’s $51M. Ruth was a pretty good rightfielder with a strong arm. You’re also paying for his entertaining larger-than-life and charitable personality. Hard to compare him to today’s players with advanced training, rehab, and tech. The talent pool was also much smaller then.
I can’t see him getting 14/500 NPV on the open market without another 2021/2024 type season. Seems like he’s really not into Toronto.
He’s into who will pay him the most. I think the Jays have made good faith efforts to sign him to an extension.
Yeah, I can’t fault Toronto here unless they dragged their feet on an extension earlier. That said, Guerrero’s yo-yoed between good, great, and elite years, so hard to gauge his true talent.
He wasn’t drafted. He literally chose Toronto.
Thanks for the correction.
So, we know SOTO got paid…. I’m not sure he was worth the $ but he got it all the same….. Vlad wants to fall somewhere between Soto and Ohtani on the financial side????? Ohtani is the best player on the planet rn… Vlad doesn’t even crack top 5 for players imo. He is 1 dimensional. Here’s my top 5
OHTANI
JUDGE
WITT JR
AND THEN THERE ARE PROBABLY 10 GUYS FOR THE 4TH AND 5TH SPOT
He’s not one dimensional. Not in the least
Should be an interesting free agency for him. Jays should be looking to trade him, though.
Sounds like the Jays didn’t want to either go that long or that much. I can’t blame them. As many have said, the body type does not age well.
Remember, Ohtani’s plane never landed there. I bet the interpreter was going there for some reason instead.
All of a sudden the “shatkins” and “fire the front office” digs have disappeared. Finally!
The Jays really need to get this done. Vlad is a superstar and still only 25.
A bit too inconsistent I think for that contract, also given his body type I think he might peak early and be retired well before 39. I think that Jays deal is the best he’s going to get, he’s no way more valuable than Ohtani and Soto is more consistent.
It’s INSANE!
He better have another big year to be asking for that kind of money.
500 million for 25 homers and a .275 ba lol
I see lots of comments referencing the contracts that Ohtani and Soto got, but Guererro should not be mentioned in the same breath as those two. He would seem to be hugely overrated, especially by himself..
I’m thinking he’s getting 10/350 type of thing. I’d be happy to have him on the team I support as I think he’s a good bat, but that type of contract can handcuff you a bit unless you are the Mets/Dodgers level of spending. You spread it out over the 10 years obviously to keep the AAV down, but even if I squint I can’t see him getting $400mil(maybe over 14 years I guess….). I know Tucker is older, but I’d more inclined to give him 10/400. He’s just a better all around player.
With Vlad, when he goes full time DH, you’d better hope he goes all Edgar or Papi in those last 5 years, otherwise that last $180mil or so is going to be worth like 2 WAR in total over those last several years.
If he had the same body type and just pure ability his father had, maybe. But $500 million for a First Baseman that is not exactly a prime physical specimen is probably a terrible idea no matter who signs him
vlad can aim for 500M, but he’ll likely settle for 350M over 15 years with incentives that can take it up to 450M and an opt-out in 4 years.
$500M now. No interest free deferrals. He could have probably made more working eith his investment professionals if thats his market.
He basically just chose to hit free agency. Never any doubt. That’s a nice figure. He maybe should have taken that.
Sad for Jays fans. All this says is they can’t attract players by either compensation or promotion potential.
Dang he looks a LOT like a Cub to me
One dimensional player who will be out of baseball if he doesn’t get serious about conditioning!
He hasn’t had a consistent enough track record to ask for half a billion dollars with no referrals. That contract would be a nightmare by age 37 unless he really committed to taking care of himself which he doesn’t seem to be interested in. We will see which way the wind blows this season.
Allow me to provide referrals:
baseball-reference.com/players/g/guerrvl02.shtml