Red Sox manager Alex Cora confirmed today in an appearance on WEEI radio what has looked increasingly likely as spring training has progressed: Rafael Devers will serve as the Red Sox’ primary designated hitter in 2025, while newly signed Alex Bregman will take over at the hot corner (link via WEEI’s Ken Laird). “Alex is going to play third,” said Cora. “Raffy’s going to DH. We all are in the winning business. He understands that.”
It’s not a shock given recent developments but still notable to get a firm declaration on what will be a surprising pivot for the club. Devers has been Boston’s third baseman for a long time and seemed likely to stay there well into the future. The club signed him to a massive extension ahead of the 2023 season, locking him up through 2033. His defense was never well regarded but it seemed that he would get a chance to stick at the hot corner for a while based on his status within the organization.
Even once Bregman was signed, it seemed possible that Devers would stay at third. Bregman’s reps had maintained throughout the winter that he was willing to move to second base as a way to keep his market as open as possible. The Sox came into 2025 with some notable middle infield prospects but didn’t have a clear everyday guy at second in 2024.
But as alluded to, the plans became more clear as time went on. Bregman was only playing third base in camp. Devers wasn’t playing many official spring games and was only serving as the DH when he was in there. It was suggested that perhaps this was due to some shoulder problems he dealt with last year but it has become abundantly clear that the club just wants him to DH this year. Prospect Kristian Campbell will crack the Opening Day roster and seemingly be the regular second baseman.
The move makes sense from a competitive standpoint. Devers has been credited with -62 Defensive Runs Saved and -29 Outs Above Average in his career. Bregman’s tallies in those categories are +27 DRS and +22 OAA.
That’s an obvious choice in a vacuum but it’s unclear if there will be intangible effects in terms of clubhouse morale. Devers was initially adamant that he wouldn’t be moving off third, saying that he was promised that he could be there for the long haul. That promise was made while Chaim Bloom was still the chief baseball officer but he was later replaced by Craig Breslow. The new regime seems uninterested in honoring the promise of the previous one.
There are other questions left to be answered as well. Bregman’s three-year deal comes with opt-outs after each season. If he departs after 2025, will Devers get a chance to retake the spot next year? What if Bregman suffers a significant injury during the 2025 season?
Then there’s also the Masataka Yoshida factor. He made his major league debut in 2023 with a solid .289/.338/.445 line and 110 wRC+, but with bad defensive metrics in the outfield. Last year, he logged just a single inning in the field, limited to DH duty. His offense was similar to the year before, with a .280/.349/.415 line and 115 wRC+, but he apparently wasn’t thrilled with the arrangement.
He required shoulder surgery in October and is going to start the season on the injured list. He was healthy enough to hit during the spring but still needs to fully ramp up his throwing abilities in the wake of that surgery. With Devers in the DH spot, he will have to jog out onto the grass into order to get into the lineup. The Sox project to have Jarren Duran, Ceddanne Rafaela and Wilyer Abreu in three outfield spots, with Rob Refsnyder on the bench. Prospect Roman Anthony will also be pushing for a major league debut soon.
If everyone’s healthy, it will be tough for Yoshida to work his way in there. He still has three years and $54MM left on his deal. Given his modest production thus far, no other club will want to take all of that on. Rebuilding trade value will be tough if he can’t get in there fore regular playing time. Moving to first base isn’t an option for Devers or Yoshida with Triston Casas in that spot and under club control through 2028.
It’s a complicated puzzle and one that will probably continue to be talked about throughout the year. Cora’s declaration today gives confirmation to what was already obvious. The unanswered questions remain.
Ooops
But he’s a third baseman. He said he was.
So he went from playing third base, to lst base to DH? How does that work?
You move from the left to the right and then off the field. That’s how
Maybe ownership is trying to win this year. How about that? I’ve been saying for two years they needed to improve their defense starting at third. Story,’s health only magnified the problem but having a rotating infield with Devers as the one who played the most games in the infield couldn’t continue.
overthemonster.com/2025/3/26/24394473/red-sox-news…
@dewey- I think Gerrit Cole has learned now, don’t throw Devers too many fastballs. I guess we don’t have to worry about that this year, right? Lol
Hey whatever just as long as your able to keep that bat in the line up somehow. That’s all that really matters
dewey – Did you hear the latest from Cora the Snake?
“It was a decision we made as a group and a decision that, we decided that over the course of a month or the last two months. This is where we’re going. There’s no explanation.”
So Cora the Snake acknowledges it was a GROUP decision to replace Devers with Bregman, which I believe to be true but he needs to shut the hell up with the “decided over the course of a month or two” crap. That is a complete lie and everyone knows it.
But he claims the decision to give Devers a massive 3B contract and promise Devers at least a decade at 3B was made by Bloom and only Bloom. Yeah, right …… what a snake Cora is. .
Lol
You mean the guy who orchestrated the trash-can banging caper that resulted in the Trashstros cheating their way to a World Series “title”?
That guy?
It should have been learned Captain his rookie season vs. Chapman who I still field weird seeing in a Boston uniform.
Fever, I just find it odd that Cora has become ownership ‘s mouthpiece. You said it years ago asking what he had as evidence…
dewey – Actually it was others who brought up the “Cora has something on Henry” theory. Haha!!
Kennedy is ownership’s mouthpiece, but Cora is the most influential person below ownership. Hopefully that will change as Breslow grows and gains experience & confidence.
Personally I think Cora simply has Henry conned. That’s one thing about Cora, he’s very good at manipulating people. Devers for one thought Cora had his back, and now he knows otherwise.
dewey – Having seen Chapman up close throwing 104 MPH recently, it would be amazing if he can have a rebound season.
Cora got that one right, Chapman should be the closer. I pushed hard for him after the 2023 season, he’s exactly what the Sox need especially in extra innings.
When you are basically a fire hydrant with a glove when you are in the field, they take you out of the field.
Water puts out fires, Devers at third only adds oxygen to cause the damage.
Source : me
Yeah, a bad third baseman.
The worst 3B.
Devers- the man with no position.
Baseball – So you’re saying you don’t believe in analytics, you don’t believe in defensive metrics.
That’s fine, everyone sees defense differently.
Devers- A very good DH on a very good team.
Fixed it for you.
He’s a bad 3B, it doesn’t make his statement incorrect. The reality is, Boston does not want to be represented by a blundering bludgeon at third anymore.
Fuzz – It’s like anything, you are until you’re told you’re not.
When Devers said he was a third baseman, that’s because up to that point in time not Cora nor anyone from the front office had told Devers he was no longer the 3B.
You’re right though, the way the Red Sox are being run is idiotic.
Devers hasn’t played even one inning at 3B this spring.
Bregman hasn’t played even one inning at 2B this spring.
But Cora waits until NOW to make the big announcement about the position change? Ridiculous.
Fever – I don’t think the time to go in guns blazing and dumping fuel on the fire about Devers position change is after he went of half cocked to reporters about he will not move.
There’s such a thing as letting tensions simmer down some, let the guy come to terms with what is happening, then announce the official team stance… no?
The time to tell Devers GA was before negotiations started (if we sign him, you’re moving off third for the betterment of the team assuming no injuries)..
GaSox – Devers was blindsided by a reporter’s question, surely you agree Cora should have told Devers in the offseason that he may be moved to 3B if they land Bregman or Arenado.
Cora could have at least shown some respect by having “the talk” with Devers before he reported to camp. It would have been a lot easier for Devers to digest in November-December than during ST in a crowded room during a live interview with reporters.
The manager of the Red Sox has zero managerial skills.
Fever – im sure you meant *moved from 3B* like all those typos ive had lately LOL…
But, just my opinion, and, i respect anyone who chooses to have a different viewpoint, but in November or December it would’ve been far far too premature to tell a player ‘we’re planning to move you if we can work a trade with a team or find a suitable free agent…’
Now, on the other hand, there was *SO* much chatter all over the industry about Boston’s talks with StL let alone connections to Bregman that, no, I’m not aware of Devers having an IQ so deficient enough that he wouldn’t know the team was making inquiries about upgrading at the position. We would be talking severe mental disability to not know the red sox were engaging about other infielders with 3B connections.
I don’t think he was blindsided by anything, I think he was in denial. He’s a big boy (pun unintended) who is well aware of how error prone his defense is, and how historically bad he has been. There’s this backstory of some commitment Bloom supposedly made with a promise, so, I think Devers was fully aware of the trade talks and pursuit of FAs and just chose to wear blinders that no way, no how, will they ever move him. Again, blind faith in the former buffoon bloom, and, a mix of ego and bluster that the team wouldn’t dare.
What I haven’t heard is that devers’ camp ever reached out to Cora or Breslow during all those rumors this offseason to see what’s going on and being misled. That might change my opinion some. I know you’d point to the competition comments, but, again, I feel there’s a question of fact whether Devers reported in condition able to have that competition vis-a-vis the shoulders and such, and, when he would’ve been up for playing time to try. I also think his conduct after the signing, hurt feelings or not, didn’t help the situation with management/Cora.
It’s not a great situation, and, sure, both sides could’ve done better, but Devers could have very *VERY* easily said ‘we haven’t talked about it yet’ when asked, if indeed, nobody had said anything to him. Who knows, maybe they did give him a prior heads up, right? I wasn’t there, I have no clue myself.
GaSox – Yes exactly! But considering it’s past 1AM and I got only 4 hours sleep last night, I’ll use that as an excuse for the typo. LOL!!
I’ll get back to the rest of your post later today, I need my sleep :O)
Hey, being its that 1am, Happy Opening Day!!!
I haven’t slept well in a long time, so, 4hrs sounds enticing!
GA: You are undertaking the impossible – trying to get FPG to say something positive about Alex Cora. I admire your ambition, but impossible is impossible.
Suit: if it weren’t for the impossible, we couldn’t have possible, right?
GaSox – When there’s chatter, players tend to bring it up with the manager who then confirms it’s true or confirms it’s not.
Cora told Devers to ignore the chatter, he told him none of it was true, he told him he’s their 3B ….. he told him if Bregman was signed he’d play 2B …. as usual, Cora the Sociopath lied and lied and lied.
It’s no different than what happened with Casas, who confirmed Cora told him there was nothing to the Casas trade rumors.
Chatter happens a lot, and is often media-driven. There was a ton of trade chatter about Abreu and Yoshida too.
So Devers had every right to ignore the chatter.
Bottom line is it’s always best to be open and honest with players. The time to break major news to them is during the offseason, not during ST.
Devers may have been naive to believe and trust Cora, but I can relate to trusting people until they betray my trust.
Think back, way back to when you were in your 20’s …. at that point in life, most haven’t had the misfortune of being burned by someone they trusted. So they believe and trust people.
How can you say he was in denial when all he’s played since coming up in 2017 was third base, he just got a massive 3B contract, he was just promised a decade more of 3B, and NOBODY – not Cora, not Dombrowski, not Bloom, not Breslow, not Henry – had ever told him he was in jeopardy of losing his 3B position and Cora was still assuring him 3B was his. Really think you’re letting a personal bias against Devers cloud your judgement here my friend :O)
Yes I’ve already posted about Devers reaching out to Cora during the offseason and Cora assuring him he’s their 3B (can’t remember the source ATM). Throughout the offseason, at the winter meetings etc whenever Cora was asked about the Sox pursuing Arenado and Bregman, Cora always responded with “Raffy is our third baseman”. I realize none of that matters to you though ;O)
Doesn’t matter whether Devers was physically able to to compete at 3B with Bregman, even if he was 100% healthy (and most believe he was) there’s zero chance Cora would have named Devers the winner of the competition.
At the 1:40 mark they talk extensively about how Cora publicly kept insisting throughout the offseason that Raffy would play 3B this year no matter what:
youtu.be/XPx4fPBNFGc?si=TA9MwMER7mNa3d-A
Cora “guaranteed” he never brought up the subject of a position change with Devers:
x.com/gfstarr1/status/1866226457309237509?s=46
I’m just glad the season is starting and we will begin to find out exactly how good or bad the offseason decisions were.
Play Ball !!!!
GaSox – Same to you!! I’m very glad today is a day game because I’ve got to get up at 3:30AM tomorrow for my early flight. I hate early flights, but they are quite cheaper and at least there’s no traffic on the way to the airport.
Sorry to hear about your lack of sleep, I can relate sometimes.
I know people count sheep as a way to fall asleep, counting Cora lies usually works well with me ;O)
FPG, Devers said he would refuse to play DH if asked. Apparently he values getting paid more than being an unemployed 3B.
Pads – Not gonna rehash for the 10th time what went down. Devers is not a machine, he’s a human who also happens to have a reputation for being a proud and sensitive man.
If guys like Pedroia or Ortiz had been put in the exact same situation, they would have responded with a LOT more anger.
Since Cora and management never expressed their feelings to Devers prior to that point, Devers was justified in expressing his feelings when asked.
But sure, go right on insisting if you had a job you liked and someone told you it was being taken away you’d say “Whatever, I don’t care”. ….. yeah, right …….
Teams have full time DHs still?
Have you followed baseball at all recently? It’s quite common.
It’s really not though.
Both teams in the 2024 World Series utilized a full-time DH (Ohtani, Stanton)
Ohtani won an MVP last year as one, Edgar Martinez is a HoF, Ozuna has a restraining order against his glove, JD Martinez had how many more years on his career b/c of it? For those that can, they have a designated hitter.
Incredible, two teams.
Ozuna, Schwarber,
Cubs, Suzuki, NYY, Stanton, Rangers, Pederson/Burger, Seattle, Garver, etc. Many teams have primary DH’s these days.
David Ortiz?
just – Teams that are willing to spend the money on a good fulltime DH, do just that.
Case in point: The Phillies and Schwarber
And with the number of extremely longterm contracts growing, the number of fulltime DH’s will increase. Just wait and see when guys like Soto, Vlad, Xander etc all approach 36-38.
There’s some contracts – Xander for example – that I’m not sure would have the power to be a full time DH. They’re almost a better fit on a white-sox type team that needs to spend some money to not trigger a grievance, but will take a 2-3 year bad deal in a mixed contract swap and prospect buy situation.
Run, look to Boston with Papi most recently
WSox don’t get revenue sharing like A’s or Marlins. They don’t have to spend to spend. Besides, they ran a high payroll for few years while mediocre to bad.
what will the padres do?machado and bogarts cant both dh full time when they turn 40.
GaSox – It’s just a matter of opinion of course, but DH’s don’t need to have much power.
Over the past 3 years, min 600 PA’s, there’s 6 DH’s who have a below-.400 SLG (and also lower than Yoshida):
Cabrera
Cruz
Meneses
Bell
McCutchen
Garver
Xander slugged between .493-.522 in each of 4 straight seasons. I know I sound like a broken record, but if he can stay healthy he will hit for power.
Well, all I can say is, it better work.
Yes, I’ve been saying for months that Cora had Kennedy all wrapped up and was pushing the Bregma. Signing against all else (other than Sps).
I’m a Sox fan, and I want Bregman here and I know he’ll play well defensively and that’s what many posters here have wanted. My concern still lies with the fact that Devers may not respond well, and then, you’ve lost the best hitter on the team. Fingers crossed that doesn’t happen, but it’s a real concern considering Cora has hidden him away to sulk, instead of integrating him back into the team.
Fever Pitch Guy – I agree that the fact that Cora said they’ve been planning this for months (when initially Bregman was coming here to play 2B) is him twisting the knife you said Cora put in his back. The bad news here is that, even though this is a March 2025 problem, and if the Sox get off to a fast start it’ll be in the rear view mirror, the Sword of Damacles is hanging over the entire season because we all have to wait and see if Boras, I mean Bregman, opts out of his contract and then what? “Ummm sorry Raffy, our bad, go play third”?
I’m optimistically hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.
dewey – I didn’t mention Papi because that was 9 years ago.
Hard to believe it’s been that long, eh?
(when initially Bregman was coming here to play 2B) i
……………..
I mean Bregman, opts out of his contract and then what? “Ummm sorry Raffy, our bad, go play third”?
==========================
1-It was all a game to save face for Devers. They never even pretended that Bregman was going to play 2nd.
2-My guess is that Mayer is our starting 3B next year. Story at SS for 2-3 years, and then Arias.
Sad – You can bookmark this and call me out on it next year, even if Bregman leaves after the season (and it’s highly likely he will) it is extremely unlikely Devers goes back to 3B next year.
The Sox would either acquire another 3B or put Mayer there.
I mean think about it, after all the pain they are going through now with Raffy’s transition to DH …. would they want to go through that again in a couple years?
Putting him back at 3B would also be admitting they were wrong ….. not gonna happen.
The Astros wanted to get Yordan in the field more. Which is shocking to me.
Ohtani pitches as well as DHs.
Having a full time DH in this day and age is a bad idea. It’s a worse idea when the team already has a full-time DH who is a horrible fielder (Yoshida) and a lot of young talent who will need ABs.
Joe – to me Yoshida was always a bad fit because he lacks the power you want in your DH role. He’s a good contact/OBP guy, but lacks the ability to knock the ball out there. DH is the spot you want your guy changing the complexion of the game with a swing of the bat, not just getting a single.
is boston going to dfa yoshida?
Slim – id find that doubtful. Even eating significant money comes out ahead of DFA.
Good morning GA from NY. Not a cloud in the sky. IMO, there is nothing wrong with Yoshi other than cost and fit. If we had a RH part-time OF with a 112 OPS+, and maybe $10M, that would be real good.
Especially on a team that goes out of its way to disrespect OBP.
Happy opening day Joe! Glad to hear you’ve got beautiful weather up there. Let’s hope the Sox add a little more sunshine to your day, I’ll root for Big Nate, but *not* today!
The Astros DON’T want Yordan in the field more, they’re planning to use him almost exclusively at DH this year.
It’s better to have a full time DH as long as they’re decent. It’s very hard to get good production from the position when you’re rotating guys in and out. “But it gives regulars rest,” they’ll say. And that’s what the bench if for. If players need an off day they don’t have to swing the bat and there’s still a productive hitter in the lineup. It also lengthens the lineup. Rotating regulars might look great on paper until two of them go down and all of sudden utility infielders and backup catchers are getting reps at the position.
Mule – Exactly! There’s a reason why the NL recently joined the AL in adopting the DH …. it’s to give an opportunity for poor fielders who are great hitters to continue playing and help generate offense.
As for platoon DH’s, all one needs to do is look at Jose Ramirez’s 2023 & 2024 numbers as a DH.
What a bunch of garbage. If the best hitters can all play in the field, there is no need for a DH. There is a reason only a handful of teams had a dedicated DH and all the rest rotated players through the position.
The only teams that had a dedicated DH had players that were on high $$ contracts that could hit well, but were absolutely horrendous in the field. Sound familiar to Red Sox fans?
Your take is a bunch of garbage.
Red Sox fans could GAF where Devers plays as long as they have a good team.
Hint…they do.
Pads – some teams purposely signed players only to DH, it wasn’t a function of having a big contract and moving a guy there based on defense.
Now, I *do* think the number of players deserving of such deals is markedly low. And when the league went to the universal DH, the agents and players used it as an excuse to shift $$$ to add extra years on deals and lower AAV. This created more of the second type DHs you reference, the highly paid poor defenders who need to run out contracts.
Obviously you and they DO care, because they are commenting about it. GTFOH.
Other than Ohtani, what team has signed a player just to DH? Stanton was not. Schwarber was not. Ozuna was not. Alvarez was not. Judge was not. Suzuki was not.
Maybe Rooker. Ok, so ONE was besides Ohtani.
Most teams sign players to be position players and move them to DH when they can’t do it, injuries forced it, OR the teams rotate players through the position.
That would be why only 4 players got a qualifying number of PA as a DH last season. The rest also played in the field somewhere.
Pads – just in 2024 without even looking id counter you with JD Martinez and Justin Turner.
Every year there’s a mix of guys signed purely to new deals only to DH. If anything, *maybe* there’s an emergency or some match-up the guy gets one or two games or partial games in the field – just like papi sometimes hit 1B, but, he was a pure DH for the Sox. No, it’s not 16 guys, but like I said, it’s not utterly rare either.
Don’t confuse not being qualified for titles due to injuries or lost playing time with having spent time in the field.
Ok, so 3 total? That proves my point. Thanks.
@Pads Fans,
Jesse Winker this season for the Mets LH DH signed for that purpose even though every now and again he can play defense when there’s a need.
Marte RH DH in his final Mets season, his body rather injury prone, won’t play the field that much unless there’s injury.
Rangers signed Joc Pederson to DH.
Pads – No need for a DH? So you’re saying pitchers would continue to hit? HAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Pads – In all seriousness, are you okay? Your posts have been quite bizarre and you seem rather angry.
Maybe you missed all the articles about fulltime DH’s, like this one about Seiya:
mlbtraderumors.com/2025/01/seiya-suzuki-to-be-cubs…
There’s a big difference between a full time DH and a primary DH. Devers is the latter but not necessary the former. As you implied, actual full time DHs are rare.
Lan – Be careful with the verbiage in articles as sometimes writers take liberties.
I followed the link to the Cora quote, he never used the term “Primary DH”..
Assuming Devers isn’t going to be a DH fulltime is a huge assumption.
if you’d like to wager, I say Devers doesn’t get a scheduled start at 3B this season unless there’s a key injury to Bregman … and even then, if it’s severe enough that could lead to Mayer being called up and taking over at 3B.
That’s Cora’s M.O., when he moves a player off a position he tries to keep them off the position.
Besides, would you really want Devers playing 3B after not playing the position or even taking practice reps there since last summer? As bad as he’s been over the years, right now he’s even worse because he’s out of practice.
Most teams have full time DHs. It turns out DH is a starting position that plays in all 162 games. It’s not some place to “rest” a player who needs a day off the field.
If a team didn’t have a dedicated closer, fans would freak out and highlight it as a weakness and a roster flaw. Yet a DH can influence many more games than a closer.
What happens with Yoshida?
He’ll be playing 3B
Yoshida will sit on the IL til they figure out what to do with him. In theory he may have minor league options so that could be a possibility as well
Rsox – No it’s not a possibility UNLESS he agrees to be optioned, per the terms of his contract.
x.com/IanMBrowne/status/1903542114769883349
Then that brings us back to sitting on the IL til they figure out what to do with him.
They basically have until mid/end of June (barring setbacks) til they have to make a decision because after a 60 day IL stint he’ll still need a rehab assignment. Either the roster will sort itself out or a tough decision will have to be made
Basically teams know how yoshida’s bat plays at the mlb level over the last 2 seasons. And they know his defensive limitations.
There’s not much scouts would see at a MLB level to alter his trade value that they couldn’t determine from a lengthy rehab stint in the minors, other than the durability questions which would take a couple more years in mlb to alter.
Knowing his the shoulder was healthy or of there was swing mechanics issues would be easy to see.
Maybe injuries will open him some playing time, or, maybe he becomes a deadline trade piece. Who knows.
Rsox – Who are you talking about there going on the 60 day IL?
Can’t be Yoshida, he is going on a 20-day rehab assignment which is the max length allowed. Then he has to be activated.
“Yoshida’s rehab assignment, as a position player, can only go 20 days despite the severity of his injury.”
Then i stand corrected.
Per Cora yesterday, Yoshida is still limited to soft toss. He won’t be able to throw 200 feet with oomph for a long time. A trip to the 60 day IL if they need a roster spot is not out of the question.
Pads – You honestly don’t realize he has to be called up once his 20-day rehab is over?
He’s on a rehab assignment, they can’t then decide to stash him away on the IL if he doesn’t injure himself further.. They can’t take him off the 40-man without DFA’ing him.
How many times do I have to post this damn link. LOL
x.com/IanMBrowne/status/1903542114769883349
“Though he had major surgery on his arm, there is no exemption for position players to be extended on rehab assignments due to arm surgery.”
Finding new injuries is not unheard of…
Barring that, they have three weeks to trade him (likely eating the salary) or release him (definitely eating the salary). There is no possible role for Yoshida on this team. Devers is the superior hitter as a DH and Anthony is the superior option in the OF.
This is what I’ve been telling you all off-season. There is no role for Yoshida on this team. You could theoretically carry him as a PH, but that would be a disaster on so many fronts. Releasing him would be the better move.
Wait – With the crackdown on IL abuse, I don’t see a phantom injury happening …. and I don’t see Yoshida going along with it, he didn’t have the surgery and push so hard to come back (rehabbing in Boston during the winter) only to waste away in the minors.
So you’re saying Cora is lying about Yoshida playing LF? Well it certainly wouldn’t be the first time he lied, but I do think if Rafaela has a bad 3 weeks he could be sent down. I am NOT saying he will, I’m just saying it’s possible.
Hopefully they don’t trade Abreu, but if Duran and Rafaela are the longterm starting OF’ers then Abreu would have to be traded at some point anyway …. right?
I think that the team is pushing off the decision for exactly the reason you mention. Maybe somebody gets injured in the next three weeks and everything changes? Maybe they find a good trade offer on Abreu (I’m fine with that if they get anything close to reasonable value)? (Though trading Abreu makes room for Anthony, not Yoshida.)
Things happen, no need to rush it.
Yoshida was pretty bad in ST, an OBP under .300. I can see why another team might be leery about taking him on until he proves that he can hit a little. Three weeks in AAA might be enough to assuage those fears?
As for playing LF, his recovery from the surgery is far from complete. Shoulder injuries are tricky and shoulder surgery isn’t always a solution, so he may never have the arm to throw 200 feet again. And if he can’t toss a ball that far, he can’t play the OF in the majors.
Speaking from some experience there. I’ve managed a bum shoulder for some 15 years now, and I’m lucky if I can lob a ball 60 feet. Tend to throw sidearm these days as it doesn’t stress the injury. I’ve been told that surgery might or might not improve things.
wait – Yep injuries can happen at any time. Dropkick Murphy’s Law, as soon as they get rid of Yoshida it will be Devers, Duran or Abreu getting hurt …. especially with the way Duran and Abreu play full speed ahead.
They will have a hard time getting a good trade offer for Abreu since every team knows they’ve got both Yoshida and Anthony looking for playing time. The Red Sox simply haven’t grasped how leverage factors in …. like Loumer predicting they would pay through the nose for Crochet because they struck out on every good free agent pitcher.
So now you think Anthony will be called up as soon as an Of’er leaves? Nah, I don’t see it …. they aren’t gonna call him up early enough and keep him up to get his 172 days. Same with Mayer.
Cora really liked Yoshida’s hitting this spring: “You can tell that he’s healthy and that the finish is different than the last year-and-a-half,” Cora said. “[The discomfort] was going on for a while. He grinded through it.”
Yoshida is the last person to worry about OBP, he was focused on swinging in ST to test his shoulder. It’s just another reason why you can’t always go by results in ST, as results are not always the goal.
But no, the gap between AAA pitching and MLB pitching is huge therefore he won’t be able to rebuild his value in the minors.
I can’t speak for his arm recovery, whether he can throw 200 feet by the end of the month is not something anyone knows … probably not even him.
Is it a rotator cuff issue you have? Years ago I caused a slight rotator cuff tear in my left shoulder when I lifted a 40-pack of Costco water above my head with just my left arm (we all do stupid things, right? LOL). After a year or so it was fine, no pain or discomfort which is weird considering my doc told me that tears never heal on their own.
I don’t think Anthony or Mayer gets 172 days this year., but then I also don’t think there will be a need for either one in April.
A slight rotator cuff tear can more or less heal fully. Mine was damaged more significantly. Still does okay as long as I keep up the strength exercises and don’t try to throw overhand.
Wait – Sorry to hear, so no desire to get the surgery? Seems like it’s worth a shot, unless it would prevent you from doing your job.
First pregame show of the season, so great to see TC/Jim Ed and Pap (thought he might have been fired after last year LOL).
I’m gonna soak it all in, enjoy the season opener!!!
Not worth the rehab, I can do normal activities and have no need to hurl a baseball. When you get a little older, you’ll find that nothing works quite right, so functional is the best you hope for.
Abreu had a pretty good game – yet another player who has to be ahead of Yoshida on the depth chart. Rafaela didn’t look great, though.
i just looked it up.and yoshida has no option in his contract.i suppose when healthy,him and devers will platoon at dh,since,neithier can play in the field?
He’ll play left field
Yoshi can’t throw and won’t be able to make a throw from LF for at least a month, maybe longer. His bat speed is down 3 mph in spring training so he will hit for less power than the mediocre slg he had in 2023-2024.
With Anthony and Mayer looking ready, his roster spot is more valuable than anything he can provide at the plate or on the field.
Baseball – been saying this for over a year now. Yoshida and Story’s roster spots are much more valuable than their production. Mayer is going to force the issue sooner rather than later.
But Story just can’t stay healthy, so maybe it’ll be a non-issue. He’s already missed multiple ST games due to back issues.
A bat speed that’s 3 mph slower in SPRING, for a known rehabbing shoulder injury.
If the guy isn’t throwing more than 100’ it implies he probably isn’t maxing his swing out yet. We don’t need full lumber jack cuts in spring, focus on squaring the ball up and directional hitting.
Some of it is marketing gimmicks from Cora/Breslow but Yoshida is one of their better hitters. For the OFs alone he’s better than Abreu, Cedanne, and Refsynder…just zero range in the field.
Then he’ll be on the IL until he can play the outfield. He’s of zero value to them until he can play again
Pedro. so never? Yoshida couldn’t play the Of when he was healthy in 2023. Its why he started 2024 at DH.
They’re not going to bench him. They need him to play if they’re going to try to recoup some value in a trade. He’ll be in left field
Mo, the guy is throwing soft toss from 45 feet. Yoshida is a platoon DH. His .669 OPS vs LHP is ample evidence of that fact. The last 2 seasons he has not cracked the top 6 in OPS+ on the Red Sox so he is not one of their better hitters.
Abreu – 3.4 WAR and 114 OPS+
Rafaela – 2.8 WAR and 84 OPS+
Refsnyder – 0.8 WAR and 129 OPS+
Yoshida is not better than any of them.
Abreu and Refsnyder will platoon in RF. Duran will play full time in LF. Yoshida is definitely not better than Duran.
So you are saying Duran will sit so Yoshida can play LF? Or Rafaela? or Abreu? Yeah, I don’t see that happening.
His only real hope to play in the OF is an injury and even then I think Anthony is a better fit.
I would platoon Yoshida with Rafaela; Duran in CF vs RHPs and LF vs LHPs.
so that means they bench devers,when he comes back?
Huh? No, Devers is the DH. Yoshida would, for better or worse, play LF, at least against right handed starters.
Mo, do you know how huge of a drop 3 mph is for a MLB player? The entire range in MLB is 14 mph. Yoshi just went from the 40 percentile range to the 5 percentile range.
Yoshi has no shot at displacing Duran, Abreu, or Rafaela. All of them are far better. Refsnyder is a better hitter. His 119 OPS+ with the Red Sox is better than Yoshi’s 114 OPS+.
I mean it sounds like he’s still injured. When he’s healthy he’s been a productive hitter, at least against RHPs. Him and Abreu both seem to be pure strong-side platoon guys. The logical plan would seem to me that you play Yoshida in LF, Duran in CF, and Abreu in RF against right-handed starters, and Duran in LF, Rafaela in CF, and Refsnyder in RF against left-handed starters.
A platoon DH is not a valuable commodity. You don’t hold roster spots for guys that play awful defense, have minimal power, and can only hit RHP.
Baseball – 3 mph slower would be concerning in mid May or June, not March when a guy is rehabbing a shoulder. It’s too early.
He isn’t a better hitter than Duran, I left Duran off the list. I don’t see innings for Yoshida as long as Abreu is on the team and even then he’s an awkward fit. That doesn’t change the fact that Yoshida can hit at the MLB level. A thumb injury and shoulder injury would effect performance. His contact was fine last yr, his power was down which is logical due to the injury.
In both years Yoshida grades as making excellent swing decisions. If he stays healthy and can get innings regularly he’ll surprise people this year…big ifs.
Pads Fans –
You got to go deeper that surface level OPS and OPS+. Those metrics are helpful but don’t contain all the context of a players performance or the circumstances they faced.
The last 2 years Yoshida grades as well above avg to great in contact and swing decisions. He cleans out FB, Sinkers, Cutters – hitting 15 of his 25 HRs, and 34 of his 54 Doubles of them. Of the 6 pitch types he saw more than 100 of in 2024, he hit >.250 on all of them except curveballs (.212). He hit .333 on cutters and .325 on sinkers, .288 on 4 seams.
Last year he had more weak contact than his rookie yr and he had a hard time with the Curve and Sweeper, he’ll probably see more of those this year but its also dependent on the counts he finds himself in.
Yoshida was still better than Abreu on them who hit .200 on curveballs. Abreu makes hard contact, really hard contact. But thats about it. He graded as bottom 20th percentile for Whiff%, bottom 50% for Chase, and bottom 26% of squaring up the ball. Abreu hit .216 on 4 seamers last year, and pitch he saw 40% of the time! He’s a limited hitter, with a limited eye, but swings hard and as a result makes hard contact. Excellent defender though.
My point on needing the context of the metric, is that Yoshida was hurt last year and still made solid swing decisions and above avg contact numbers in terms of outcomes. I’m not saying he belongs in the field everyday, he is defiantly an awkward fit on the team but the dude can hit with the old cliche of as long as he’s healthy. I don’t see him getting regular innings on this team unless theres injuries or he platoons with Cedanne by moving Duran to CF against RHP.
Mo, Yoshi isn’t better than any of our current OF. Not even Refsnyder who has been a better hitter. Unless there is a major injury between now and when he comes off the IL in May, there is no place on this team that is better with Yoshi in it. Devers is a better DH. All the other OF are better.
Baseball –
As a defender Yoshida is not on the level of any of the other OFs. As a hitter he is superior. The numbers show it, as well as the anecdotal context. I’ll debate his bat quality, not his fielding quality. Playing him in LF outside of Fenway doesn’t seem logical, and even then it seems like playing him against RHPs and sliding Duran to CF. But thats because of defensive alignment benefits, not his batting. Other than platooning with Ceddanne, he’s left to spelling Devers on spot start DH days or on days Devers mans 3rd and Bregman rests.
Ceddanne 2024 – Bottom 46 percentile in every major advanced batting category except one, which he was 56th percentile. Even worse, only 3 categories were above 30th percentile. (per Baseball Savant). He hit .216 on 4 seamers and .189 on change ups. His swing % went up from 2023, as well as his out of zone swing%, whiff %. His xBA was 15 points lower than his actual BA which is close enough for me to say he performed as expected – not over or under. He hit .255 w/runners in scoring position.
Abreu 2024 – Bottom 20th percentile for Whiff%, bottom 50% for Chase, and bottom 26% of squaring up the ball. Abreu hit .216 on 4 seamers last year, and pitch he saw 40% of the time. He hit .287 w/runners in scoring position but also struck out 27% of the time in that scenario.
Refsynder 2024 – Didn’t have enough ABs to qualify for Baseball Savant officially, but he does grade as avg to slightly above avg in certain metrics. His best strength is not chasing but he graded lower than Yoshida. His contact numbers were avg. He hit .256 w/runner sin scoring position.
At the PLATE, Yoshida grades better than all 3 of those guys.
Also a lot of notable platoon splits. Refsnyder is an average hitter against RHPs but absolutely mashes lefties. Yoshida and Abreu both hit RHPs very well but are basically unplayable against LHPs. Rafaela doesn’t hit against anybody but is much closer to passable against LHPs.
Noquarter –
Yes, agreed. Its a mix of platoon hitters with 3 of the 4 being + to ++ fielders. Not trying to be a Yoshida fan boy, I’m truly unbiased, and I’m also a fan of Abreu not trying to bash his talent.
Yohsida has shown signs that he isn’t as limited against LHP as Abreu. In 144 PA’s last season Yoshida hit .277….above avg. Abreu hit .180 with a near 33% K rate in 67 PAs.
Reading the metric tea leaves, Yoshida’s hitting issue is his bat speed. That seems pretty logically connected to thumb and shoulder injuries the past 2 years. He makes above avg contact, makes above avg choices on pitches to swing at. His hard hit % in both yrs has been above avg, but his exit velo is just avg. That implies good contact and not being overpowered by the pitch, but not able to swing hard enough.
Yoshi is only better than Rafaela at the plate. No one else. He has had two years and those are the results. You can keep trying to defend him but it won’t change the numbers.
NQ, overall Refsnyder is a better hitter than Yoshi.
My guess he’ll be DFA’d with the hope of burying him at AAA Worcester
Rusney Castillo 2.0!!
Assuming he gets DFA’d, he can refuse minor league assignment (and he should). The team which picks him only pays the league min. over the next three years. Yoshida is very tradeable as a bat if the Red Sox eat some salary.
YBC- I don’t think he can refuse a minor league assignment. he has 2 years of service time. He’d need 5 to refuse IIRC
I stand corrected. Yoshida has options so they can keep him down while rehabs. However, he has a strong case for a grievance once he’s fully ready and it’s a bad look for future prospective free agents. I don’t envy the Red Sox position with him.
If they ever want a Japanese player to take them seriously, they need to handle this correctly. Not the way they have come to be known for in recent years.
With only 2 yrs he can be optioned. He has no right to refuse to report unless he is willing to give up all the $$$ left on that contract — no waivers , no DFA needed.
I don’t think the Japanese player concern is actually that huge. Maybe some would consider it a mark against the franchise, but Japanese people are not some mystical monolith that only consider “honor” and customs within their own cultural context. They will see the surrounding context of Yoshida’s injury, poor defensive grading, and a Red Sox front office aggressively pushing to fill the roster spot he left them with.
YBC – No, he cannot be optioned without his consent per the terms of his contract.
x.com/IanMBrowne/status/1903542114769883349
Tang – Voice of reason.
As the writers on this site, particularly Tim and Steve, have repeatedly brought up, even if he had not had surgery to his throwing shoulder if Yoshida was a FA this offseason he would not get a deal over 1 year and the offers would likely be in the $4-5 million range. Platoon DH is not a position in great demand.
Yoshida is owed $54 million. The Red Sox would have to eat $36-40 million of that just to dump him. To get something of value in return they may have to add a player to the deal.
Well what’s the correct way to handle a slow-footed, damaged arm, sub-avg glove outfielder?
Don’t you think Japanese fans/players understand things like this?
Everybody likes it when players perform up to their contracts but it just doesn’t always work out that way.
There are no villains in this one.
Dark – the problem is, things you identify with Yoshida were known problems generally when the team aggressively pursued him.
Before he even came of MLB everyone knew Yoshida was slow. They knew he was a sub-defender. They knew he had a weak throwing arm, granted not a shoulder injury, but knew the arm was weak. And they knew he didn’t have power.
To say he can’t throw hard, can’t run, doesn’t field well, and that’s why you need to drop him… those aren’t new revelations. And that’s why I believe there *is* something to a negative pushback depending how you handle him.
Many around the league were shocked bloom bid as high as he did as everyone knew those weaknesses.
If anything, I almost feel Yoshida has been better than expected since so many bats coming over see more dropoff than he did. It’s just everything else was as bad as advertised.
you just made a very good point tang it.no pun intendid.
GA – I believe when the bids were put in and Boras selected what teams to discuss Yoshida with, he heard only the Sox. One offer and done. How often does Scott Boras not try to drum up a bidding war? He knew the Sox offer was far beyond others and didn’t want to risk them pulling it.
Meow – Ohtani didn’t include the Red Sox in his list of preferred destinations (Angels, Dodgers, Jays, Cubs, Giants).
Yamamoto didn’t bother meeting with the Red Sox even after being in NY to meet with the Yanks and Mets.
Roki didn’t bother to meet with the Red Sox either.
When you get shunned by that many as the Red Sox have, at some point you’ve got to realize it’s not them … it’s you.
Respect and honor are very important to Asians …. and the Red Sox have proven to be severely lacking in both areas.
Fever, while not Japanese, and, yes, many of them they do hate Japan for valid reasons when you get to know them…
I worked for some years in a Korean-owned corporation. And there *is* a distinct difference in culture you learn quickly. I became known as the token white guy in management, but, regularly got taken out to dinners down in Fort Lee NJ and other places with the CEO, CFO, COO, etc… who, unsurprisingly, we’re all Koreans.
It’s that background that led to my opinion on one way to handle Yoshida I posted in the earlier thread, the sit down with him and his reps. It wouldn’t *fix* everything, but, it’d be a start.
An example of how different? In Japan for example, theres employees who arrive early and park further from buildings so employees who arrive late can run in faster and not miss as much working time. It’s quite a different mindset than western European
GaSox – That last paragraph of yours doesn’t surprise me. Most Japanese are very polite, respectful, courteous. and considerate.
In your first paragraph you lost me …. who is “them” that hates Japan? Koreans?
Yes, particularly the older generations. Very bad things happened in WWII by the occupying forces, including forced abductions of ‘comfort women’ which basically enslaved younger women into forced …. well, you know where that’s going… for the solders. Younger generations don’t have as much problem as older ones who remembered sisters aunts parents or grandparents who were mistreated. Not to mention all the other various abuses. It was a dark period for sure.
He has performed basically as advertised. They were expecting more unfairly and now they have egg on their faces. Bloom did a terrible job of seeing what needs the team would have and signed a Lefty dh. If he was a righty, they likely wouldn’t be in the same situation.
Bad guess
Hey former GhostofMookie, it may be a bad guess by Tim and Steve, but I don’t have to go out on much of a limb to say that its far more accurate than anything you might come up with.
Henry eats $40 million and trades him for a case of sunflower seeds and a rosin bag.
@Baseballisthebest
He’s owed $55.6M for the next three seasons. He missed time last season and was at 1.4 WAR.
Let’s say he *can* be a full-time DH with a 1.7 WAR this season. I think he’s worth more than $15.6M/3 to an acquiring team in need of offense.
Yoshida is owed $54 million. The rest is a prorated part of the $3 million signing bonus he was paid when he signed.
Even if he was fully healthy, he can’t be a full time DH because he can’t hit LHP. He has never had a 1.7 WAR and will miss at least a month this season so assuming he could improve on 2023 and 2024 is a non-starter. He has very little power. To put a larger nail in that coffin research of players that that have had that surgery from 2001-2021 showed that 82% didn’t return to baseline performance, which for Yoshida was 111 OPS+ and a 1.4 WAR, until the 3rd season after the surgery. None did in the first year back.
Tim Dierkes and Steve Adams have already made the argument multiple times that if he was a FA that Yoshida would not get more than a 1 year/$4-5 million deal. Maybe a team would take a chance on him for 3/12-15. That means the Red Sox would need to eat $39-42 million of his remaining contract.
I am going to say that Best is being conservative when he says that the Red Sox will have to eat $40 million
Astros?
To play where? If you are going to play Yoshida in LF you might as well stick with Altuve and he’s not going to supplant Alvarez as the DH so no real fit there
Sounds like with Bregman the Red Sox will be dancing the can can. Toulouse Lautrec in the scout seats so he can get a nice view
Bonus points for the Lautrec reference!
Added bonus to anyone who recalls the SCTV sketch. With Harold Ramis’ crazy legs Hirsch as the rude French waiter
No, he’s a third basemen. Source: Devers
I didnt realize how bad he was. Led the league the past SEVEN years in errors at 3B. He might have a 7.0 WAR season now that the defensive metrics dont weight him down.
There is a massive penalty to WAR for DHs…..
Perhaps someone can get the exact numbers, but I don’t think the DH WAR penalty will be as bad as his 3B play WAR impact.
For bWAR DH has a -15 runs positional adjustment. 3B has a +2. Well it’s actually a rate based on innings played, but it’s an example. He defense would essentially need to be -17 runs to see an improvement by switching to DH, which his defense isn’t that bad.
baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_positio…
Edgar Martinez only eclipsed 7 WAR once and that was in 1995 at 7.1 with a 1.107 OPS/185 OPS+.
He is by far the worst defensive 3b in mlb, since he came up in 2017.
Agreed, Joemo, Devers’ WAR looks better as a 3B than it will as a DH. His bat is unlikely to improve by that much.
But the team is better with Devers as the DH and Bregman at 3B than it would have been with Yoshida and Devers. And that is what matters, not trying to justify individual contracts. Devers will be an excellent DH for years to come.
If his bat stays the same, its a 0.4 bWAR improvement just by moving him off 3B.
I don’t place much stock in the B-R defensive numbers, prefer fWAR. Fangraphs also offers greater transparency, which is extremely important for a catch-all stat like WAR.
All of that said, I’m not sure you are reading it right? B-R suggests a negative -0.6 dWAR for Devers, but a full-time DH like Ohtani gets a -1..7 dWAR. Comparing the two suggests that Devers would lose approximately 1 dWAR by moving to DH.
That roughly jives with my read of the Fangraphs numbers as well.
But none of that really matters to me. Devers is in my opinion the team’s best option at DH, given that they didn’t land Soto.
WAR doesn’t mean squat. It’s a convoluted stat.
@Former
Well, if its convoluted…that’s kinda ur fault dude :3.
Didn’t see this coming….
Nice to have Stevie Wonder join the conversation.😎
Ted – Olm was being sarcastic.
Feber – you left out “While watch Brasier highlights and only occasionally glancing at the Devers situation…”
My goodness am I that predictable??? Oh by the way his last outing before opening in Arizona…1/3 inning 3 hrs given up and 4 runs… I guess I am….Sir Duke out…
Olm – sometimes yes, but only in a good way my friend. Who knows, maybe the organization would toss you free bleacher seats at home to chronicle a nice story about him or their relievers through the season, publicity it brings and all…
Thanks FPG and GAS… they say don’t meet your hero’s… Brasier would probably have forgotten our brief picture moment… now that hes all big time and all.. but the thought of running into him dinning on a deep dish keeps me going….
Olm – I haven’t had Pizzeria Uno in decades. Wonder if they have any locations in Arlington?
Wow. What a shock. Complete lie about Bregman playing 2B when he was initially signed lol
And Cora is in the winning business? 3 last place finishes in 5 years isn’t exactly the winning business.
Let’s hope Bregman is worth that 40MM AAV. I have a hard time believing that.
It was worth 40 million just to get Devers off of 3rd.
I would rather watch Devers at 3B and have them spend that money on actual pitching help (Fried, Burnes, Scott, Yates) instead of Bregman at 3B and hoping that Buehler/Crawford/Giolito can pitch like decent SP and Chapman closing out games.
Amen, Joemo, amen.
Joe – I would have rather had Campbell or Mayer at 3B than Bregman.
But Cora wanted his BFF back, and Cora always gets what he wants.
Fever – Campbell lacks the arm/footwork to do 3B. I don’t think he’d even handle SS well. He can’t set and get the power for accurate throws quickly across the field, especially while moving that direction
they would not have gotten burnes.baltimore,toronto and san francisco all offererd 250 million to him.he went to arizona for 210 million. burnes took 40 million less to be with his family and his home town team.if you watched his interview he said, had arizona not signed him, he would of resigned with baltimore.
GaSox – I haven’t seen him play 3B, so I have to go by his minor league stats and the SoxProspects scouting report …. all of which indicates he can handle 3B. The scouting report states “At short and third, shows solid athleticism and range”.
Nevertheless, I would definitely use Mayer at 3B before Campbell.
Gary, that is incredibly insightful.
It made me chuckle so I went with it.
Ok. You don’t like Bregman at his cost but I think the Sox/Cora handled the Devers “I’m playing 3B” situation pretty well now with a positive outcome. Bregman is going to hit well pulling off the Green Monster. He was being attacked down-and-away last season and swinging at them.
40MM AAV puts him at the same AAV as Judge. 118 OPS+ ain’t going to cut it even if he provides gold glove defense for that kind of money.
Joe – Bregman is getting a little over $30M annually, remember there are heavy deferrals involved.
@Joemo Salary inflation plus short-term deal.
Joe – don’t forget to mentally allocate some value to getting Devers off 3B.
Although, the move mightve gone smoother if Cora had a 3B bag installed at the far end of the dugout on the ground next to a table of beignets for Devers to hang out at during defensive innings
He’s only in the winning business when he cheats.
Homeboy is about to balloon next off season now that he has more excuses
Fat guys hit harder
They also break down faster.
They do?
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast?sort=e…
Doesn’t seem like it.
I wonder how many people it took to convince Devers that he stinks at defense.
I blame the Red Sox – if they had been smart enough to tell him that the baseball is a carb, he would have gobbled everything up that came near him over there…
4.
1 to record video of Bregman last year, 1 to record Devers last year, and 2 to set up the video player and projector screen in the owner’s office.
@vanderzim
Who says he’s been convinced? I noticed it was only Cora commenting. Where was Devers in support? Nowhere!
He addressed it in an interview. He was humble and fine. Went so far as to promise the fans he’s ready to go at DH.
You mean his capitulation.
Time for the “Baby-faced Assassin” to man up and put team over pride
More to come? I’m sure there is. After all Devers is a 3rd baseman. He said so!
Now that Raffy has seen the fine print in his standard player’s contract; he’s changing his tune and falling into line with the rest of the band.
It’s gonna get weird when Bregman goes off this year, opts out and signs somewhere else. Devers goes back to 3B?
With how the Red Sox handled the situation, probably not. They wanted Devers to DH so that’s where he will be. They don’t have a good 3B prospect in the farm either. Maybe Mayer, but he’s actually a SS. Maybe Cespades but he’s years away.
Could Story play third?
With Story’s arm stuff in the past my guess would be most like the thought of moving him closer to first then farther away? Stick a kid like Meyer at third?
No, Devers shouldn’t have been at 3B even if they didn’t sign Bregman. If Bregman opts out, they find another guy to play 3B from somewhere else.
Jean – Agreed, Devers likely won’t play 3B again for the Red Sox.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s gone within the next 9 months.
Oh no! Then they might have to get another 3b with only $40 million freed up!!
Or move Story or Mayer to 3b and call it a day…
Story wouldn’t make a good 3B.
And Campbell wouldn’t make a good SS or 3B.
It’s all about the arms. Mayer could jump to 3b or SS, with potentially bringing in someone else to fill one or the other. I haven’t even looked around the league at what’s available fit-wise, but, it wouldn’t shock me to see an OF (not named yoshida) shipped out as part of a trade to upgrade at C or 3B/SS depending how things shook out.
Fenway is Bregman’s best park to play in and the Sox are stacked. He’s not stupid enough to walk out of that park and roster.
Former – Bregman hit well against abysmal Red Sox pitching staffs. Let’s see how he hits against the rest of the league in the park.
Yeah, I’ve never understood the “he hits well in that park” point for any player. If he joins the team in that park, he probably won’t be facing those pitchers anymore…idk.
And I would agree on Devers not moving back to 3B if Bregman opts out. I’d hope they just leave Raffy at DH and find a 3B who doesn’t lead the league in errors every year.
24 hours from now, we’ll be watching baseball!!!
You’re on fire, Joemo. I’ve been saying the same thing. You can’t use his Fenway stats as a baseline going forward, that’s just dumb.
I think it depends on why you’re making the claim. If you just look at a batting line then yeah, it doesn’t make sense to make the claim.
If you’re looking at a spray chart, then sure, certain parks are laid out in a way that a particular player’s push/pull tendencies make them a better fit – think the outfields in NY and BOS for example. Certain guys will his more 2Bs in bos, maybe more HRs if their tendency If to lift high Flys that’d fall short elsewhere. Short porch at Yankee stadium explains itself.
devers will come to spring training next year and just say,IM A DH..
Still sad that Devers won’t be able to continue his record of most errors at 3rd base since 2018. He has led the leadgue every year in them. I wonder how that conversation went with Devers and the maanger?
@running
I wish he’d have gotten his way and was still manning the hot corner. the AL East would be a little easier w him trying to play defense.
I think that Boston has the pieces for a surprising AL East title. they’re the team to watch for now.
Headline:
Trouble In Paradise!
Egos Inspire Baseball Celebrity Death Match at 3B!
Remember when Nomar got his feelings hurt in ‘04? He fell off a cliff and was eventually traded. Then the Sox did the unthinkable.
And Yoshida to where? Closer?
Very simply he’s trade bait and it probably will cost a little to unload him. But before then let’s see how the first month plays out because injuries happen and he’s decent insurance in the outfield or DH in case Devers goes South.
Dare, I say this may be why Yoshida hasn’t been traded yet? Who knows or who knew three weeks ago if Devers wouldn’t ask for a trade out of town? Be nice to grab a pitcher or pitching and put Yoshida at DH.
Yoshida has not been traded yet, because #1 he is hurt and will start the season on the IL because he can’t throw yet and #2 no one is willing to pay more than $10 million or so of the $54 million he is owed.
Ketch: Thomas Jefferson once said it is better to keep your mouth closed and let everyone think you are a fool than to open it up and remove all doubt.
This is good for Devers career. Less time in the field, less pressure on his banged up shoulders, higher chance of getting back to 35-40 hr production
Assuming his ego ever recovers.
Good move for Red Sox and devers but bad for Alex bregman in fantasy baseball for not going to 2nd
Partially good news but we need to figure out Yoshida. He is the elephant in the room
there is room for yoshida. just make him a super utiliy man.
Super utility platoon DH?
Yeah, try that out… not happening
And in other, just as surprising news, it’s been determined that..
Ice Is Cold &
Water Is Wet.
More Details to Come.
Poor guy.
I guess he’ll just have to console himself with his tens of millions of dollars.
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS😭
He’s “only” banked $93 million of it so far.
Humbling lesson for Devers re: philosophy & power. Easy to predict the future if you know who has the power to shape the future.
Supreme – So true! Devers was foolish to trust Cora.
Nobody has ever accused Devers of being intelligent or mature.
cora is a good manager,he will do anything to win,cheat,steal,throw players under the bus,bang trash can lids,theres nothing he wont do for a win.there are times i wish yankees manager, boone was a little more like him.
slim – All that is true, but Cora also has made it very clear he doesn’t care about winning regular season games in March, April and May. He will over-rest position players and pitchers, he will play favorites with the lineup and bullpen management, and he will give the worst excuses for not playing the best available players.
2019 was the worst managing I’ve seen in my lifetime …. and I’ve seen guys like Butch Hobson, Joe Kerrigan, Jimy Williams, Bobby Valentine and Grady Little.
No, Cora has not made that clear.
With the amount of money he makes, it’s foolish to think Devers is losing out in any way
Tell us something we didn’t already know Cora.
This is how we all wanted it..buy did you really think this scenario was a lock all along?
Pool – The minute Cora started talking about a “competition” for 3B, we knew it was a lock. Zero chance Devers would win a defensive competition over Bregman.
And oh yeah, the fact Bregman didn’t play an inning at 2B or have any reps there in practice was another dead giveaway.
What happened to all the tough talk from devers
This is clearly a decision bc the Red Sox don’t want the next Pablo Sandoval… Devers has been bizarrely overweight 4 years in a row.
@Jimmy
bizarrely overweight?
6’1 230 is a medium build, not to mention he has muscle.
Not to mention…some of the best all time were in that range, if not bigger.
Bita, Devers was always closer to 250 and his belly is hanging over his belt this spring training.
6’1″ and 230 is around a 28% BMI. Overweight, but not yet at a 30% BMI that would indicate you are obese.
@Pads
Bita? don’t know what that means..but alright.
Even if he is overweight, that’s not a problem for him as I said: Some of the greatest players of all time were bigger like that.
But unlike Sandoval, Devers can hit.
So has Josh Naylor, but it didn’t keep him from socking 31 dingers and driving in 108 last season.
I have a hard time with a franchise player insisting on something that everyone knows is bad for the team. What was he thinking? Hopefully it’s water under the bridge but time will tell.
Cora, Bregman, now all they need is Altuve and they can have a cheaters reunion. That scandal should keep them out of the HOF.
The Red Sox and Yankees were also caught cheating that same 2017 season the Astros were penalized for. Bregman went to the right organization.
The Blue Jays will give you Springer as well…
Poor Devers! lol
Yoshida and Grissom at AAA will allow them to remind everyone how good they both are as hitters, thus rebuilding trade value. There are some truly bad hitters on the OD rosters.
It’s the Red Sox fault for not being upfront about their intentions with Bregman. The fact that Devers had no idea before some interviews is absolutely insane.
Hopefully Campbell isn’t a liability at 2B and hits. Otherwise the winning formula could be Bregman 2B, Devers 3B, Yoshida DH.
The winning formula will never include having Devers at 3B. Mayers or Hamilton or even Gonzalez can step in at 2B if Campbell falters.
Trade for Rendon straight up. Get this done!
The part I don’t understand is that every player on ANY team, and the Red Sox included, should all have the mindset of doing whatever it takes to get the opportunity to win the World Series. Devers is clearly a liability at 3B and yet he puts himself / ego above his teammates and that’s a selfish attitude in a team sport. He is certainly NOT bigger than the game of baseball and not even bigger than the Red Sox. He has his money so just suit up, show up and shut up and let your bat do the talking. Just as a hypothetical…what if the Red Sox won the AL East because Bregman had a great year at 3B, and Devers put up monster numbers as a DH and they actually WON the World Series? Devers ring wouldn’t say DH and pissed off EX 3B…it would say World Champion.
Personally, I would just be grateful that my name was on the line up card every day because the time will come when that isn’t the case and there is something to be said about playing for the name on the front of the Jersey ( hopefully for his entire career) instead of the name on the back and there is no “I” in Red Sox and there isn’t an “I” in Devers.
Overpaid DH
Red Sox win 78 games this year, you heard it here first
Yes, they’ll definitely win 78. Then after that, they’ll win number 79 and number 80.., all the way up to 95.
Agree…I think they will battle with the O’s for the AL East.
Gary – Just watching MLB Network last night and they’ve got the Jays winning the division.
I don’t know why some are sleeping on them, other than their last place finish last year which is totally meaningless. They called Francis and the rest of that starting rotation the best in MLB.
And with both Bo and Vlad healthy and playing for a contract, along with the addition of Santander, it’s crazy to count them out.
@Gary Devers and his smug attitude will sink this team faster then a stone and Cora doesn’t have a clue on how to manage a club house with huge bruised egos
Rafael Devers has played 8 years for the Red Sox and it’s worked out pretty well so far.
If anything he is maturing and things like this bother him even less than if he was younger..
Is Devers that bad he can’t be full time 1B
They’d rather trade Yoshida than Tristan Casas.
Gary – They could try a 1B/DH platoon between Devers and Casas. That would preserve both their defensive value to a degree.
Yes, they could try that platoon but I believe they wanna see what Tristan can do on a full-time basis this year.
My hope is that he comes through, stays healthy, and produces the bombs we need because They lack A true power masher in the outfield.
The RS have a full time 1B.
Devers will lose his trade value if he doesnt get on the field.
MLBTR —
You say the move of Devers to DH is “obvious in a vacuum” but I am still waiting for you folks to generate a statistical analysis to back that up. Could you please generate a piece that compares the expected 2025 aggregate WAR (using both projected fWAR and projected bWAR) of the two alternative alignments (assuming 600 2025 PA for each player at each position): (1) Campbell2B/Bregman3B/DeversDH; and (2) Bregman2B/Devers3B/YoshidaDH. It seems to me that analysis is essential to considering whether the move of Devers to DH is “obvious”.
Many thanks.
Regards,
Doug
Doug, interesting question. Why do you consider WAR as the defining method to back up why moving Devers is what makes sense?
Because of the weighting flaws I continue to only see WAR as accurate for evaluating players of identical position, not moving them around, and, particularly not by the extent it devalues offense in DH.
Your construct doesn’t seem to account for the changes in pitching counts, wear on arms, having to pitch in stretch, etc etc that every one of the league leading errors Devers has made in the past 7 season cost.
It also is difficult as your asking for projections on one player newly in 2B, which, means prior projected offensive output needs to be called into question, and, a rookie who lacks the baseline data or even a single mlb AB to make an informed projection based upon.
Hi thanks for getting back to me. Regarding aggregate projected WAR as the relevant metric for comparing the two alternatives, what better metric is there? Fangraphs uses aggregate projected WAR to project the 2025 standings. I don’t know of any better way to compare the projected winning value of lineup A vs. lineup B. And perhaps more importantly, I think the projected WAR comparison is at a minimum a relevantdata point in assessing whether MLBTR is correct in claiming that lineup A is “obviously” a better choice than lineup B. All I am asking is for MLBTR to provide and analyze that data point. Is that unreasonable on my part?
I agree that a core aspect of this is that WAR weights identical offensive contributions differently if they are generated by a crucial defensive position (say, 3B) rather than an irrelevant defensive position (say, DH). You have hit on the hub of the whole issue here. Under both WAR formulas an average defensive 3B will be worth 1.5 to 2.0 WAR more than a DH with the identical offensive numbers. Devers is below average defensively, yes, but per Fangraphs his Def was only 1 run below average in 2024. So it seems (but that is what I am asking MLBTR to calculate for us) that his projected 2025 WAR as 3B would be 1.5 to 2.0 higher than his projected WAR as a DH. I understand that you are uncomfortable with the positional weightings that are built into the WAR formulas, but the people who developed those formulas put huge effort into accounting for how MLB teams actually value defensive positions relative to one another in developing those weightings, so again I think the WAR metric is the best one we have.
Regarding the point in the third paragraph of your post that WAR does not account for whether a player’s contributions or failures to contribute came or didn’t come at a “crucial” time, I agree with you. However, going back to the Bill James era there have been tons of studies demonstrating that supposed “clutch performance” or lack thereof is an illusion and overall performance is the far more reliable predictor of both whether and how much the player’s performance contributed to winning and what the player’s future performance will be.
Regarding your last point about the unreliability of projections of rookie performance, again I 100% agree with you. But again that is sort of my point. If MLBTR will do the calculation and analysis that I have requested, I expect it will show that you have to assume a 3+ WAR season from Campbell for the move of Devers to DH even to be defensible (much less obvious). Yes that 3+ WAR season could happen, but if it does (and I will be thrilled if it does) Campbell is probably ROY. Seriously how likely is that for a guy that has only played a handful of AAA games? If he pulls off 1.5 WAR as a 22-year-old rookie that would be fine. But at 1.5 projected WAR, moving Devers to DH to get Campbell in the lineup is not the obvious move. It is an obviously stupid move. (As Harold Reynolds said this evening on MLB Tonight.)
I know what I am saying here does not match up with the narrative and lore that Breslow/Cora are pitching and that the Sox media and fan base has for the most part totally bought into. All I am asking is for MLBTR to generate this one particular objective data point to help us all evaluate the unsupported assertion that the authors of today’s post made regarding the supposed “obvious” decision to move Devers to DH. I do not think that is a big ask.
Regards,
Doug
Dougie, you failed miserably in your attempt to do so and now you want them to do it for you?
I did a calculation by prorating the Fangraphs projected positional WAR numbers to 600 PA for each player at each position, and that calculation showed the choice between the two alternatives to be a toss up from a projected wins perspective. People here insisted I must have messed up the calculation, as it did not match up with their pre-conceived expectation. So let’s have MLBTR do an authoritative and objective one, I say.
Disclaimer-I refuse to read anything longer than two lines on this blessed opening day. I think your analysis is fine, but I for me, I think the RS are looking over the next 6+ seasons.
The reason for starting Campbell is because he’s going to be our 2B for the next 6 years.
The reason for Devers to DH is that either Bregman or Mayer will our 3B next year and beyond.
Past that, let’s get this party started.
Hi — if the Sox are taking the long view, as opposed to a 2025 view, regarding Campbell, the isn’t the “obvious” (MLBTR’s word) move to keep him in AAA for at least a month and pick up the extra year of team control?
Regards,
Doug
It seems reason has prevailed.
By locking Devers into DH now, the Red Sox can tank his trade appeal (no team will absorb $150M+ from 2028-2033 for a DH with no positional upside) without losing his on-field impact, effectively trapping him in Boston at a salary that’ll look team-friendly if his bat holds up (e.g., a 130 wRC+ DH at $31M in 2030 beats market rates for aging sluggers).
The Sox need to make Yoshida disappear, get whatever you can for him and pay whatever. They can’t let him become a distraction.
I’m hoping Devers has had lots of conversations with hall of famer Big Papi. The Sox nation just wants Devers to smash the daylights out of the ball. He’s always been a slugger first. I never understood his insistence on playing 3rd., being a DH will almost guarantee Devers a HOF plague.
I’m not a Red Sox fan, but I am a fan of MLB (go Cubs!) and from what I’ve seen and read Devers is not a very good defensive player. I haven’t seen all the analytics or stats, but if he’s getting bumped for another player on the dirt it’s fair to assume he’s just not that good with glove. Yes, I know Devers can hit and he’s produced at the MLB.
If Devers doesn’t like it, then he should learn to catch and throw.
Perhaps Devers was paid off in a contract tweak to be more agreeable.
Bregman the obvious choice @3b. Devers the obvious choice @DH. This improves the club. If devers has half a brain, he picks up a first basemans mitt and begins working out on the other side of the diamond. Should have embraced it at the start of ST.