Active extension talks between the Blue Jays and superstar first baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr. came to an apparent halt last month. The beginning of Spring Training, which Guerrero set as a deadline for negotiations, came and went without a deal. But that hasn’t stopped those negotiations from being a major topic of discussion around baseball in the weeks since.
Some of that publicity has been created by Guerrero himself; while extension negotiations are often played relatively close to the vest by both players and their clubs, Guerrero has been unusually candid about the negotiations throughout the process. His public comments have ranged from acknowledging back in December that the Jays had extended him a $340MM offer to his recent interview with ESPN where he suggested his asking price clocked in below $600MM over at least 14 years.
Earlier this week, it was reported that Guerrero set his asking price at a net present value of $500MM in negotiations with Toronto, whether the deal was a straight $500MM contract with no deferrals or a higher sticker price including deferred money that took the net present value back down to $500MM. The Jays reportedly did offer Guerrero about $500MM, but with deferrals that knocked the net present value down to the $400-450MM range, so the two sides were about $50-100MM apart in terms of NPV.
It’s an interesting development, not only for the window it provides into Guerrero’s thinking with his final season prior to free agency just around the corner, but also because of how rare it is for a player’s asking price to be reported on so specifically. With reasonable confidence in the knowledge that Guerrero would have accepted a 14-year, $500MM contract offer from the Jays, the decision by Toronto not to offer Guerrero that deal is an especially interesting point of discussion.
It’s easy to see why Guerrero would feel comfortable asking for that sort of contract. The slugger is coming off a superb season at the plate for the Blue Jays last year where he slashed .323/.396/.544 with 30 homers, a strikeout rate of just 13.8%, and a wRC+ of 165. The performance was good for a sixth-place finish in the AL’s stacked MVP race last year, and in terms of overall production was more or less a perfect replica of his 2021 campaign where he posted a 166 wRC+ and finished second in AL MVP voting behind Shohei Ohtani. With two seasons of that caliber now under his belt, it’s impossible to argue against the fact that Guerrero is one of the league’s most explosive offensive talents.
That lofty ceiling with the bat is made all the more tantalizing by his youth; Guerrero will play next year at just 27 years old, one year older than Juan Soto is now. Soto stands as perhaps the best reason for Guerrero to feel emboldened to set his asking price at half a billion dollars. After all, the star outfielder’s combination of youth and offensive prowess allowed him to land a 15-year, $765MM deal with the Mets back in December. It’s the richest contract in the history of professional sports and completely shattered all contractual precedents. Unlike Shohei Ohtani’s own $700MM deal with the Dodgers, which has an estimated net present value of $461MM, Soto’s contract includes no deferred money.
In that context, Guerrero setting his asking price at approximately two-thirds of Soto’s deal is understandable. After all, neither player contributes much in the field or on the basepaths, and when Guerrero is at his best he’s easily the closest comparison to Soto in the game in terms of age and overall offensive ability. The Blue Jays themselves clearly saw Soto as a player worth splurging on, as they were a finalist for his services. Ben Nicholson-Smith and Shi Davidi of Sportsnet reported back in December that the Jays’ offer to Soto clocked in under $700MM, but that shows that Toronto has the financial wherewithal to make a massive offer and a willingness to put pen to paper on such a deal for a player relatively similar to Guerrero. As mentioned earlier, they also made a substantial offer to Guerrero that went beyond $400MM in terms of NPV.
With that being said, the comparison isn’t without flaws. Guerrero is already more or less restricted to first base defensively, while Soto is capable of playing passable defense in the outfield corners and likely could theoretically move to first base in the future, as other corner outfielders like Bryce Harper have done in the past. More important than either his slightly more versatile defensive skill set or the fact that he hit free agency one year younger than Guerrero will, however, is the fact that Soto is simply in a class all his own as an offensive talent with a career wRC+ (158) in the same ballpark as Guerrero’s aforementioned peak seasons.
Setting Soto aside, there are valid reasons for concern when it comes to Guerrero. The slugger has shown a level of year-to-year volatility that could be difficult to stomach for a franchise cornerstone on what would be the second-largest contract in MLB history, and is just one year removed from a lackluster 2023 campaign where he posted a wRC+ of 118 with just 1.3 fWAR. One also doesn’t have to look very far to find first basemen who were comparable or even greater offensive talents than Guerrero at his age but saw their production take a nosedive in their early 30s. Prince Fielder, Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols stand out as the most obvious examples of the pitfalls that can come with offering even immense offensive talents franchise-altering contracts under the assumption they’ll remain productive into their mid-to-late 30s.
Another consideration that must be taken into account from Toronto’s perspective is the club’s own prospects of near-term success at the big league level. The Jays, as presently constructed, feature an aging roster with plenty of holes and question marks that figure to only grow in the coming seasons as veterans like Kevin Gausman and Jose Berrios continue to age while pieces of the club’s core like Bo Bichette and Alejandro Kirk reach free agency. The club is coming off a fifth-place finish in the AL East last year and is projected by Fangraphs for a record of just 82-80, less than a full win ahead of the Rays for fourth place and behind the Yankees’ division leading projection of 86-76. If Toronto were to enter a rebuild in the near future after giving Guerrero a massive contract, they’d risk wasting the prime of their superstar’s career and returning to contention only when his best years are already behind him.
If you were in the Blue Jays’ shoes, would you have signed on the dotted line to keep Guerrero in the fold on a 14-year, $500MM contract? Have your say in the poll below:
If they don’t, someone else will.
And that someone may be in their division.
Is your name a Valley of Horses reference?
Yeah, it is.
Nice. RIP Thonolan.
It’s dependent on how he plays this year. If he was a FA right now, I don’t think he’d clear $350 million. He’s too inconsistent.
Now, if he repeats his 2024, then maybe there’s a team that will offer $500 million either with deferrals or additional years (like 13+) to bring the AAV down. But if he repeats his 2023, he’s going to be lucky to sniff $200 million.
Look at how cheap Alonso and Walker went.
Blue Jays could sign Alonso and Tucker for that kind of money.
Not convinced he’s getting $500MM.
Senator, you can have my answer now, if you like. My final offer is this: nothing. Ahahahahahaha!
They should of just given him the $500 million over 14 years. Vladdy is the Blue Jays franchise player. This isn’t making any sense at all. Who really will want to play in Toronto now? This was a horrific decision.
The number of free agents who say “well, Toronto is offering me more money than anyone else, but they refused to give Vladdy $500M so I don’t wanna go there” will be zero.
@smuzqwpdmx- Can we at least agree that Vladdy is worth $40 million a year? I’d say 4 or 5 teams on the open market right now would pay him that. Watch him have a great year and get the $500 million. Nobody will be shocked. Jays better pay this guy before the Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, Rangers or my favorite team does. The Rogers Brothers can burp $500 million very easy. It’s nothing to them.
If he has a great year, then he’ll get $500M. But it would be insane for the Blue Jays to pay him now as if he’d already had a great 2025, when he’s only been great 2 of his 6 seasons.
And I think there’s a high chance the team that gets him for $500M will regret it, because his body type doesn’t always profile well for 14 years (or 10 or 5) and he’s the type of player whose value quickly turns negative if his bat dips.
Sure, $500M with deferrals to lower the net present value. No way should his contract be higher than Ohtani’s net present worth, which is $463M
Guerrero is younger than Ohtani, and has a history of being healthy.
He also wasn’t a two way pitcher with HOF abilities at each.
slow down with the “HOF abilities” for pitcher. He’s only made 86 starts over 7 seasons and has had Tommy John twice.
Guerrero also looks like he’s a couple of cheeseburgers away from being an offensive lineman.
Prince Fielder clone.
He’s also not anywhere near Ohtani as a player or revenue generator. He’s a good to very good hitting 1B’man. He’s a six win player in his best seasons, less in others. If he can get it, great for him, but I don’t see any other team going there.
Which is reportedly pretty much exactly what they did offer. I very much dislike this front office but can’t be faulted on not being able to sign Vlad. I do fault them with not being able to pivot
How ‘bout faulting them for not being more proactive signing him during his pre-arb years?
They could have had him for the “Tatis deal” three years ago
You don’t know that. Unlike many other players, Vladdy didn’t need the money. So he could risk not signing early and maxing out his contract. Which is exactly what he did. And earlier? Without the 2024 season? That makes him worth waaay less. He never would have gone for it (I don’t think)
As an O’s fan I hope either NYY or Blue Jays sign him for $500M. Love seeing those albatross contracts giving us a chance to compete.
He’s a decent player, but Ryan Mountcastle is comparable, just lacking daddy’s last name.
Mountcastle is more than 2 years older, has a career wRC+ that’s 25 points lower, is coming off a season with an RC+ that’s 57 points lower and doesn’t play 3rd base (not that VGJ plays it well).
But perhaps they’re comparable golfers?
Only way they are going to get a star is to overpay. And even then, that doesnt work. Vlad is at least willing to be in Toronto as far as I know.
im sick of hearing about toronto
they’re always “interested” in every single high profile FA
they’re always a “finalist” for every single high profile FA
and they never sign any high profile FA
vladdy is a goner. enjoy these last few months blujay fans
But but but you clicked on the article. And you commented too.
Where they’ve messed up badly is the fact they either should’ve extended him or moved him before this became public. The team and specifically their system are already devoid of blue chip talent so if not extending him was the path they chose they should’ve moved him for some top tier prospects already to jump start the rebuild
*Not saying they have no talent in their system completely I am really high or Arjun and still believe Orelvis can be a decent big leaguer but outside of those two and maybe Roden not confident any of their other bats can be big league contributors
They’ve tried to extend him, but he’ll demand ludicrous money until he’s in an Alonso type situation where nobody in the league will offer it. He just doesn’t realize that now because only one team can offer him anything. They’ll trade him in July, I’m betting.
14 years at 500 mil seems like a good number considering his down years. If he reaches few agency someone will Def offer that plus 100 mil though
Are you sniffing that cinnamon? : -)
Are you not? I’m not wrong
I think he’ll demand that and end up in an Alonso type situation because nobody will offer that for an inconsistent 1B/DH.
Especially when Tucker will probably eat up one team looking to splurge like that first
I think they should’ve gone really high AAV like 8/325 if possible.
Long-term, his type of bat doesn’t generally age well, but he’s undoubtedly a franchise talent. Toronto isn’t the Dodgers – if they lose a franchise player, they don’t have the budget to go out and get another one in free agency whenever they want. They’re also not the Pirates – they’re willing to pay enough to hold on to franchise type players.
no, so that the giants can instead.
Not for 500 mill though right? Ha
He’s not too dissimilar from Devers stats wise. Good hitter, crap fielder. There’s more variation in Vlad (~2-~6 war vs ~4).
Recent threads here suggest people think Devers is overpaid, so if that’s the case, Vlad will definitely be overpaid at around 35 a season. Great if you’re getting 6 war, garbage if he has one of his 2 war seasons.
Why a team would sign anyone for 14 years is also beyond me. Re-upping like A-rod used to do, Machado has done, seems more palatable than guaranteeing someone into their late 30s, early 40s even.
I think a team will probably give him 14/500, and there would be a high chance that team will regret it.
He’s not too dissimilar from Devers stats wise.
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I make that point all the time on the Devers side. Vlad’s road OPS is .846 while Devers’ is .837. That’s almost identical, and disappears completely considering the small difference in BABIP. Plus Devers, even with a poor glove, is more valuable than Vlad’s glove.
Nope. His body type is not going to age well.
He wants to be there. He is Canadian it’s a great match.
No one is worth even half that.
Not saying I disagree but capitalism disagrees.
I give him devers money. Same type of player.
400 for 10 opt out after 4
Cant cave to one dimensional players.
If you are willing to go 10 years for $400 million, then you should be willing to go $500 million over 14. Those last 4 years at $25 million per won’t kill you, ten years from now that may be what they pay a utility infielder.
@Jakec77 Hyperbole aside, the concern is that he’ll be at home watching games rather than playing those last 4 seasons.
If you’re assured he’s still a role-player at his age 36-39 seasons then adding those 4 years wouldn’t be so hard, but most players are forced into retirement before age 36.
So many of these contracts have gotten out of hand. Soto’s was ridiculous. Vlad at $500 mil is a joke. Let’s come back to earth MLB.
Such a stupid conclusion. Get these super deals down to earth a little so teams not called the Dodgers or Yankees can PROPERLY add LEGIT players around them. I don’t give a crap about the owners. I just know Vlad isn’t worth $500 mil nor is Soto worth 3/4 of $1 billion. And set a proper competitive financial floor so these owners have to put up or get out of town.
That’s not the only option. How about spreading the payroll so there will be better players and depth, rather than overpay a 1B?
Insane!
14 years at 35 per? No shot. I wouldn’t give him 14 years, and I’m not sure I’d do 35 per either.
Over/ under on his weight after he signs a 14 year $500m+ deal?
He is a great player, but let’s just say I have my doubts about the long term production….
Vladdy is smart to engage in a PR campaign to pressure the Jays. no one else will pay him anything close. take out 24 and 21 seasons and he is an above average 1B at best – closer to all over rated team than an all star. if he has a pedestrian 25 season, he’d be repeating Pete’s off season. as a Jays fan, i hope Rogers doesn’t cave. 500MM present value buys a lot of talent at premium positions.
14 years is a long time to the tune of 35 million a year, I voted yes. I’m surprised the Blue Jays front office didn’t match what he wanted since they’re clearly trying to keep him. I still think he stays even in free agency.
I will be happy when the CBA abolishes contracts over 6 years!
Detroit Liedowns!
Its hard for me to come up with any real logical justification for giving a defensively limited First Baseman half of a billion dollars, especially when his best offensive season was spent in part in minor league stadiums
Very few people know that. That’s why I do the Devers/Vlad road OPS comparison.
An overweight, inconsistent 1B with mediocre defense for half a B. No thanks. I don’t even think the Angels would put up for a contract this bad
Sing it loud, Enrico!
I cannot think of any contract that has been signed for over 10 years that has aged very well and that includes Acuna (Always seems to injured), Tatis (Same thing plus his “Ring Worm” episode) …Pujols, Cabrerra, Cano, Stanton etc.
His body type and lack of versatility will make him limited from a position standpoint and that type of contract will be almost impossible to move after eight years from now…eight years at 37.5 million to 40 million…300 – 320 million total.
8 years/$360M max for Vlad, Jr. to me it’s less about the AAV and more about the years. I just do not see him holding up beyond about age 34 as an elite power hitter worthy of $40M+ per season.
Give him the $400 million and the top AAV he wants, I agree on the years though for sure he’s just too big.
No me, pick me!
500 bucks worth of M&M’s? No way he’d take that – although I certainly would.
Jays must at all cost sign him. Why because if they don’t. Fan’s attendance most likely decline and most certainly merchandise sales. Signing Vlady to a ridiculous contract will keep jays attendance top 10.
So does that fit you too?
And even bigger losers are ones who judge others if they just so happen to wear jerseys. Lol
harrisstan
I would say bigger losers are…Grown men over 30 wearing jerseys.lol
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That’s pretty silly. I have jerseys for my Raiders and my Red Sox, and I also have jerseys for the school I attended, the schools my kids attended, my neighborhood, one of my employers, and probably a couple of others.
My problem with it isn’t the money it’s the years. If ya wanted to go 8 years at $400 million to give him the $50 million AAV I think that is manageable. I don’t think he’s going to be a productive player past 35 he’s a big man and his skill set will diminish faster than a slender build. That is what happened to Prince.
Statistically he’s worth $26.79M/year. With his position and body type, even a 10-year contract is a bad idea. But with his stat power, he might be worth an A-Rod contract around 10/$275M. Even at that rate, the team is probably not going to get a statistical return on value though.
*Star power
Using the cost per point of WAR of FA contracts signed in the 2023-2024 offseason, based on his 2024 production Vlad is worth $57.35 million. Based on his career average he is worth $39.775 million.
I agree with you about his body type not aging well. If it was my decision I would not sign him past age 35. A 10 year extension at a $40 million AAV with an opt out after year 4.
That’s my number as well. 10 years takes him thru age 36, which is already too long by probably 2 years too long.
Hell no! One dimensional player who has had 2 good seasons, and a serious weight problem! Will be out of baseball in 5 years if he doesn’t get serious about conditioning!
He started working on his conditioning last offseason and had a monster 2024 campaign. If he stays true to that, a repeat performance might be in order followed by a serious pay day.
Part of the ‘monster’ was a .342 BABIP. If that reverts back to his career .304, then his overall OPS reverts back to ~ .864. Still very good, but you’re back to Devers-level hitting.
I don’t know if they should or not. It’s a lot in terms of paying for on field value. But I think there’s a whole lot more than on field value at play here. I don’t know how to value that. But I think having refused to entertain trades last year left them with very few options for building a competitive roster any time in the near future and that feels like it could cost the team a lot of money.
Honestly, I know how good he can be. He’s one of the best. But his profile isn’t exactly a body built for longevity. And he’s been a roller coaster in his career. A 500 mil paycheck will make him lazy and that’s the last thing u need form a bit of a gamble a long term 500 mil contract would buy u
No but the american genius atkins is screwed… After Ohtani/Soto the money is there. He should have signed two years ago or traded.
You feel better now?
Better poll would be “Who would you give $500MM to?
In a heartbeat because of inflation.Assuming that inflation is 2 percent over 14 years then the value is down 28 percent on the last year
14 years for a 1st baseman is stupid. I don’t care who they are. Ask the Angels if they were happy with that Pujols contract.
To pay him till he is 41 is insane. They do that they are crazy. 10 year 400 mill is max or they will be sorry they did it. His body type won’t age well and in 4 years might be strictly a DH.. don’t do it
He’s a likely HOF player would consistently hits the ball very hard. His comps look like he’s likely to be good for 10 years. That should be more than enough to pay him that money and just keep looking at your scrapbook for the last 4 years.
The real question isn’t whether Guerrero is worth $500M—it’s whether any team should be paying that for a non-elite defensive first baseman in today’s economic landscape. The smart move isn’t extending Guerrero—it’s trading him while he still has value.
His contract at 14 years won’t agree well. Of the contracts signed for a decade or longer this contract would be more Pujols than Harper. 300 over 10 years seems like a nice compromise abd a big more fair. He can’t even play outfield. You can hide his fading glove at DH but he’s not Othani.
Ridiculous money, and we the fans have to pay for it
10 years max for Vlad. I’d rather we extend Bo.
The only objective reason you pay him to 41 is to lower AAV over the 10-11 years he arguably will be productive. The value of the money paid in the last years of the contract will have 30% lower present value than the money being paid today. While it seems like a lot for this player, he is the face of the franchise. I have seldom seen a team that is always the bridesmaid and never the bride than the Blue Jays. That’s why I think they should have pulled the trigger and extended him with the overpay.
No way. Not for an inconsistent 1B/DH. I won’t be surprised if nobody offers $500+ next winter and he ends up in an Alonso type situation. Especially when huge dollars from some team will get snatched up by Tucker first. Toronto will trade him in July if he has another good season.