The Mariners announced that they’ve signed catcher to a six-year extension Cal Raleigh that starts this year. It’s reportedly a $105MM guarantee for the Excel Sports Management client. He had previously agreed to a $5.6MM salary in 2025 to avoid arbitration, so this deal adds five years and $99.4MM in terms of new money. He was slated to hit free agency after 2027, so this deal buys out three free agent seasons and there’s also a vesting option for 2031. Raleigh gets full no-trade protection.
The specific breakdown is a $10MM signing bonus and $1MM salary in 2025, followed by salaries of $11MM and $12MM in 2026 and 2027. He will then make $23MM salaries for three straight years. For 2031, there is a vesting player option valued at $20MM with a $2MM buyout. The option would vest if Raleigh appears in 100 games behind the plate in at least four of the six guaranteed seasons.
Raleigh, now 28, was a third-round pick of the M’s in the 2018 draft. As a prospect, he drew attention as a switch-hitting catcher with notable power. His 2021 debut wasn’t great but he has since established himself as one of the best two-way catchers in the game.
Over the past three seasons, Raleigh has stepped to the plate 1,612 times. His 28.3% strikeout rate in that time is a bit on the high side, but he’s also drawn walks at a 10% clip and hit 91 home runs. The end result is a .222/.303/.457 line, which translates to a 117 wRC+. That indicates he’s been 17% better than the league average hitter, but that’s even more impressive for a catcher, since they are usually about 10% below average.
The switch-hitter hasn’t been totally balanced in his production. 73 of his 93 career homers have come against righties and he has a .223/.304/.454 line when hitting from the left side. When he turns around to bat right-handed against southpaws, his line drops to .202/.271/.410, though the 94 wRC+ on that latter line is still passable.
Defensively, he’s received strong marks for all aspects but especially his framing. FanGraphs gave him the third-best framing mark last year, behind only Patrick Bailey and Jake Rogers. Statcast had him second only to Bailey.
The overall package is quite strong. FanGraphs has credited him with between 4.2 and 5.3 wins above replacement in each of the past three seasons. That means he was worth a total 13.9 fWAR over the 2022-24 period. That was tops among all catchers in the league and in the top 20 of all position players. It’s difficult to quantify a catcher’s contributions to a pitching staff but Seattle has had strong results from the mound during Raleigh’s time as well.
He just crossed the three-year service line in 2024, qualifying him for arbitration for the first time. As mentioned, he and the club settled at $5.6MM for this year. He would have been slated for two more arbitration passes before hitting free agency after 2027, his age-30 season.
Had he stayed healthy and productive between now and then, he could have perhaps been in line for a strong trip to free agency. However, the earning power of catchers at that age isn’t tremendous, as shown on MLBTR’s Contract Tracker.
While shooting into nine-figure territory and beyond is common for other players, the wear-and-tear of the catching positions make it rare for that group. J.T. Realmuto is actually the only free agent catcher to get to nine figures. He and the Phillies agreed to a five-year, $115.5MM deal going into 2021. Only four other free agent catchers have gone beyond $53MM. Willson Contreras got $87.5MM from the Cardinals, Brian McCann $85MM from the Yankees, Russell Martin $82MM from the Blue Jays and Yasmani Grandal $73MM from the White Sox.
Extensions have been the path for the top deals for catchers. Joe Mauer and Buster Posey are tops on that leaderboard, though those deals are both over a decade old. More recently, some rough comps for Raleigh can be found in Will Smith and Sean Murphy. Smith’s $131.5MM guarantee is larger than Raleigh’s, though he was one year closer to free agency, therefore giving him a bit more earning power. The nine-year term is a bit eye-popping but that was largely viewed as a way to lower the average annual value for tax purposes.
Murphy was in the same three-to-four service window as Raleigh and got $73MM over six years plus a $15MM option. The two players had a broadly similar profile as strong two-way backstops. Raleigh’s deal shoots well beyond that one.
For the Mariners, they generally struggle to attract top free agents. That’s perhaps somewhat due to the pitcher-friendly nature of T-Mobile Park but more generally about the club not having massive payrolls. Since Jerry Dipoto has been atop the baseball operations department, this is now the eighth contract the club has given out worth more than $24MM. Of those eight, only two of those were free agent deals. They went to Robbie Ray and Yusei Kikuchi, both pitchers.
The six extensions have gone to Raleigh, Julio Rodríguez, Luis Castillo, Jean Segura, J.P. Crawford and Marco Gonzales. There are couple of pitchers in there but four of the six have gone to position players, showing that to be a preferred way of spending money for the club, particularly the lineup.
Perhaps not coincidentally, Raleigh’s salary jumps up at a time when the club should have some extra payroll capacity down the line. He will almost double his salary from 2027 to 2028, going from $12MM to $23MM. By that time, Castillo’s deal will be done the guaranteed portion, though there is a vesting option for 2028. Castillo would need to throw 180 innings in 2027 and be verified as healthy by an independent surgeon. Even if Castillo is still around in ’28, the deals for Mitch Haniger, Mitch Garver, Crawford, Polanco and Víctor Robles will all finish between now and then.
It’s surely an exciting day for Raleigh, the Mariners and their fans. “Big Dumper” has become one of the better backstops in the league and a fan favorite. He’ll now be slated to stick around for six or maybe even seven more years, instead of just three. He’ll be 33 years old in the final guaranteed year of the deal and 34 in 2031, the vesting option year. Barring a future trade, he will eventually spend the majority or perhaps his entire career in Seattle.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported that the two sides had agreed to six-year, $105MM deal. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic relayed the no-trade clause. Ryan Divish of The Seattle Times first reported on the vesting option that could push the total to $123MM. Passan reported the specific salary breakdown. Rosenthal reported the vesting condition.
Photos courtesy of Mark J. Rebilas, Imagn Images.
This is obviously great news for Mariners fans and the team.
But I can’t help but wonder if it will be an excuse for not spending more next offseason..
“You wanted Cal, now you have him long-term. We spent! But that’s all you’re getting”.
Trader Jerry backed up that dump truck
It was a Tonka dump-truck by today’s standards, but I’m not complaining!
Cal definitely deserved it. Nice player!
The team has $35.5M of salary coming off the books next year between the Mitches and Polanco (Castillo’s no trade protection will always be gone, so he’d be easier to move as well), so they can easily afford this extension and the other arbitration raises they will owe within their current budget.
Additionally, the FO and ownership have made it clear that they won’t pay the premium market rates in FA, so focusing on extensions makes sense. Curious to see if they can make any progress with Gilbert, Kirby or Arozarena who are the other big names in arbitration.
Seattle has significant arbitration raises due to Gilbert, Kirby, and Arozarena, plus a number of others entering arbitration for the first time.
Lots of raises coming. The money coming off the books for Garver and Haniger will cover those raises, but they’ll also have the same holes to fill next offseason that they had this offseason: (and then some):: 3B, 2B, DH, half of 1B, fourth outfielder, backup catcher, utility infielder.
Hopefully internal options will cover a couple of those, but there are a lot of needs.
And that’s just the hitting. The bullpen will likely need some help.
I’m all for extending Gilbert. Crawford is a big question mark right now. I don’t expect big free agent signings, but even trades typically add to payroll and Seattle has made it harder on themselves by limiting how they acquire players.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy Cal was extended. I just hope they don’t call it a day. I wonder if he asked for a guarantee that they’ll spend and do what it takes to get to a WS before signing the deal.
Agreed, but they have to start giving playing time to the massive prospect class that’s been forming in the minors. By next season it will be firmly play em or trade em time for Young, Ford, Williamson, Bliss and Locklear with Emerson, Montes and Arroyo knocking on the door (and Farmelo, Celesten and Peete another year out).
I do desperately wish they would raise their budget to $200M or so during their peak contention window, so they can actually add that one more bat which will push them over the edge (dreaming about what a Vladdy would do to this roster).
The reality is we are doing exactly what we are capable of doing. We’re not going to sign the Soto’s or Judges. The next tier of FA’s are aging and overpriced.
What we need is to continue to lock up talented, relatively cheap core players and hope the current players play at league average. Just a few more runs would have produced a playoff team in each of the past 4 years.
It’s not a matter of spending a ton of money- we need production from current players and locking up a talented group of pitchers.
I don’t think they have to start giving playing time to prospects. Prospects should force a look and there absolutely should be a fallback option.
They should feel no pressure to play Young, Ford, or Williamson if they aren’t dominating the minors. Fortunately, those three are pretty promising. Same goes for Locklear.
The others (on the position side) are 1-4 years out, mostly 2-3.. Seattle’s prospects are all at different points in their development and it takes time for most rookies to settle in, so Seattle really shouldn’t (can’t) rely on prospects to address all of their upcoming needs.
They should be open to trades, but I hope they exercise patience with those that stick around (which will be most of them). I don’t think it’s a play-them-or-trade-them situation, especially given how thin the depth is right now.
Curious to see what they do with Harrison Ford. He’s a pretty substantial trade chip for either July or the off-season.
Or Garver’s replacement.
Both as DH and C? Or will they try to do a Craig Biggio with him?
Ford is an incredibly easy player to keep around, especially if he hits. He can get about 40 starts as backup catcher and cover OF on his off days (e.g. Melendez). If he is really hitting, he can even earn some DH days.
In any case, having two strong catchers is a good problem to have and can do a lot to keep them healthy and productive (especially as Cal gets toward the end of his deal when he will need more off days).
A little pricey for a catcher but still a bargain compared to a replacement player in free agency. As such, Cal Raleigh earned it.
I would like to say that pitch framing is somewhat dependent on the staff you work with and Cal Raleigh works with one of the best pitching staffs in MLB.
This is a big reason why I believe Shay Langeliers is as good of a catcher as Cal Raleigh, offensively and defensively. He may have bad marks in pitch framing and in blocking but he has been working with a pitching staff that isn’t nearly as sharp as the staff Raleigh handles.
It will be interesting to see what Langeliers gets if he is extended.
Gilbert & Kirby are not going to get extensions until their final FA year at the earliest. There is no reason for a club to extend a pitcher in arb. There’s only risk to the team, and they are not likely to give any kind of ‘club friendly’ discount for taking on that risk.
They’ll ride out arbitration raises, if they’re healthy and still performing at a high level at the end of arb years they’ll get a QO, and the Mariners will negotiate with them at that point. There’s no reason for them to take on the injury risk of handing out a bag before then.
Nothing is definitive. Many, if not most, extensions come with 1-2 years remaining.
I’m sure Seattle would like to extend Gilbert. But it’s also hard to see Seattle shelling out the kind of dough starters have been getting in free agency.
And with a few promising starter prospects likely to be ripe before Gilbert and Kirby hit free agency, it wouldn’t be surprising if Seattle ends up selling high.
They know they can develop pitching. hat’s certainly influences their decision making.
Exactly. With the budget they are working with I would guess young bats get extensions, they sell high where they can on arms, and keep the pitcher development factory rolling.
We’ll see. Go M’s!
If Gilbert’s interested, perhaps he’s the exception. I think it’s important to keep a core or developed, loved and productive players to move forward with.
But Kirby, Miller, Woo….I think they’re less likely to be extended. I don’t expect any major shakeup soon, Perhaps Castillo gets moved at the deadline if they’re not in contention, or in the offseason regardless of how 2025 goes.
This is speculative on my part, but it would make sense that they’d want to lock up players up the middle. They have Cal and Julio. Crawford may be a consideration if he rebounds this season, but it seems more likely they’re hopeful that Emerson can take the reins with Celesten as a potentially excellent alternative.
The rest are arguably easier to address.
Stevil this is the most we have heard from you in awhile. Wish you would come on more I appreciate your insight. It would be really cool to get the kids up and have most of the team homegrown. Then if they can keep drafting like this will be great.
I have an opportunity to see the kid from Mt Vernon play this year. My grandson plays for a team he will play and also the school the grandkids go to he plays there.
I have a question for everyone out there. Is it in bad taste to take a ball and have him sign it? My son in law wants to do that but I am unsure. I would like to do it too not to sell but to add to my collection. What do you all think.
I don’t think it can hurt to ask. The worst he can do is say no. More specifically, I personally don’t think it’s in bad taste and don’t think he’d be offended by that.
You never know, I guess.
I write more at hardballviahardcore.
We can’t have it all. Meaning, expensive FA and extending core players. We’re going to have a host of young, talented starting pitchers to extend soon, and we simply can’t afford everyone.
People are so finnicky, we extend a fairly young and productive player and all people can talk about is who we didn’t sign. We are a mid-major market team with limited resources. Not realistic to assume we will sign big name FA’s. So locking up young talent is the best we can do. We need to continue to draft, develop and extend core pieces.
Either this post was written by a Mariners employee or the poster is clueless. The Seattle Mariners are NOT a mid-market team! Most years they’re in the top 5 in profits and have been #1 in MlB in profits some years.
It’s disgraceful that a so-called fan would accept that with all their financial resources the Mariners payroll should be $70-80M less than the payrolls of the Astros & Rangers.
The Mariners have the money, thanks to a loyal fanbase. But they refuse to spend anything close to what they should be spending
Tell me oh great one. What defines a major vs mid market team?
Population? Tv contracts? Wealth of its citizens as you contend?
Disgraceful huh. So a real fan knows how much to spend and on who? More so, those studies about profit are speculative. I believe there are only a few teams that actually report profit and losses.
Again, your tired argument of spending boatloads of cash on free agents is unrealistic and boorish. Money doesn’t equal winning. Aging free agents doesn’t equal winning. Signing imaginary super stars doesn’t equal winning.
I have to disagree with the mid market mentality. We are in a very wealthy market and, in any event, saved for years at well below respectable payrolls during our rebuild (around $270M of payroll saved compared to pre rebuild level). Now we are slightly under the levels we were pre rebuild (2018 Opening Day payroll of $157M, 2025 Opening Day payroll of $152M).
Nobody is asking for the Mariners to live in the luxury tax forever. However, 3 or 4 years at $180-200M level like a Cardinals, DBacks or Padres is a very fair request. There is no reason we should be $70M+ behind the Astros and Rangers year in and out.
So you’re saying we’re the same market as the dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Phillies?
Glad you understand baseball economics so well. It really doesn’t matter what we think a team is worth or size of market, it only matters what ownership decides to spend. And that’s not ours to make.
We are not a major market. We’re not a small market either. But we can’t spend like Dodgers.
Also- you equate having money with free agents signing with us. Doesn’t matter how much the Mariners have, some free agents simply would not play here. So what are you arguing and what did I say isn’t true? We do spend money, just not on who and how much you guys want?
I’m saying use the resources to lock up the pitching staff. Sotos total contract could pay for all their extensions. Love the hate and ignorance of “true” fans on this site.
I’ll I’m saying is that it isn’t realistic to spend like some clubs and we are NOT a major market.
How is a $180-200M payroll Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies tier when they are spending $300m?
I don’t understand why you are defending Mariners ownership here… I obviously cannot control the budget and neither can the FO. However, that doesn’t mean we cannot complain about it.
I also said a budget that I think makes sense. If the FO actually had the $30-$50M more, I am confident they would’ve been at least rumored to be in the discussions for Bregman, Walker and Alonso. They would’ve also had the flexibility to trade a young starter for the impact bat and sign one of the top veteran pitchers as a replacement. Instead, we brought back nearly the exact same team except for waiver wire types in Tellez and Mastrobouni.
Also, we are judging the revenue of the Mariners based on the publicly reported revenues. Also, the equity value of the team is up over $1B since they purchased a decade ago ($1.2B versus the predicted $2.2B now).
I am not defending anybody. I think shoring up Cal is a good use of money for a mid-market team. I think spending money on extending young pitchers is a good use of a limited budget.
I am simply stating the reality is we don’t have an ownership group that is willing or capable of spending large amounts of money, so we must accept that as fans. We are willing to spend some, so I applaud them when they do make a seemingly good decision.
What I don’t do is pine for signing unrealistic free agents, or even aging overpriced ones. Money does not equal winning.
We have a window to win now, what we need to do is shore up pitching and hope players perform at league average vs. regression like last year.
I’ll I’m saying is we are not the Dodgers, or Mets, or Yankees, so we must find ways to win without spending money we aren’t willing to. Unfortunately, it’s not our decision, and yes, we must accept that. I still root for them for what they are, and not what they are not.
I think it’s obvious we all wish we had owners who didn’t care about money, but that’s rare in business. So we can complain about what we should do vs. what the reality is. Everyone here assumes the Mariners have deep pockets since Forbes speculates on profits. Regardless, it doesn’t matter.
I do agree we should trade one of the young arms for a controllable hitter. DiPoto has been stubborn on that. We will see how it plays out.
There is no public reporting of revenue. Only 2 teams that are publicly held report (Blue Jays and Braves).
These numbers reported are best guesses.
So, how does a team get better if they extend players they already have, but don’t add players?
They are a mid-market team, but they don’t spend accordingly. Take a look at this excellent article from The Score and look where Seattle ranks in the ‘Scrooge Index”…
thescore.com/mlb/news/3107553
We are 12th most Scrooge team per that article and that’s after raising payroll to its current level. Now add in that $270M saved during the rebuild which they promised to reinvest and it’s even worse.
The M’s can easily afford to add $30M to their payroll. They instead choose to pocket it. It’s that simple.
We traded for them. Robles, Aronzarena…and where does it say team has to spend a certain amount of money…
“Can we…” That was directed at Steve. I was backing you up.
They absolutely can afford to spend more.
It’s about honoring their promises and fielding a legitimate contender.
I don’t care if they do it on 120m payroll and trade prospects for needs. The problem is, we’re not seeing much of that, either.
They added just one respectable name to the roster this last offseason. How does a team get better by doing nothing?
Again, all these articles on profits and losses are speculative. Private companies do not have to disclose financials. I’m sure they are profitable, how much so is anybody’s guess. And it really doesn’t matter since we don’t own the team.
Most of the data is verified. That’s even in the article.
what ownership can afford and what they actually spend is two separate issues. First, we don’t know what they can afford. Second, frankly, is your judgement and opinion. Telling someone how to spend their money because we think they can/should is irresponsible and ignorant.
It overlooks and assumes that those free agents would actually sign with Seattle. Just having money, doesn’t mean players want to play here especially if be offered a similar amount from different organization
Hah. By who? The people that wrote it. Show me one article that has concrete public evidence of what teams actually make and I’ll humble myself.
Look guys- we all want the same thing. A winning Mariners team. At the end of the day, we are arguing about how to achieve that. All I’m saying is since we don’t seem to or have the capability of signing major free agents, maybe our focus should be on a different strategy.
Oh yeah. It states a third party Sportico says is legit with no sources or documentation. So it must be true. More so, the article admits it’s only a snapshot between estimated revenue and payroll and does not account for a lot of major expense. So that’s a good judge of profit? Without seeing a real P and L we’re all guessing…
Add it on what exactly? The best rotation in the league or the bats that can’t hit once they get here? Everyone says add add add. Ok 12 million for Carlos Santana sounds reasonable except he’s a .192 hitter at T mobile. There were maybe 3 free agent bats that can claim success hitting here. One of them got 40 million from Boston (Bregman). T mobile is the most pitcher friendly (read as dumpster fire to hit in) park in the game. So to all the spend spend spends out there spend on what? More of the same bad hitting that we already watch?
When did one game from the playoffs become not a contender?
A team gets better doing nothing when 5 guys have career low years. If we had 2023 Julio last year we make the playoffs. If Polanco, Garver, JP Arozerena had hit to their 2023 numbers we make the playoffs. You don’t remake the roster when you’re that close and then add in the progress they made when Edgar and Willy landed. I don’t have the exact number but it was near 125+ WRC the last 5 weeks of the season. Spending isn’t the only answer. The Mets spent over double more than the mariners and got 4 more wins.
Exactly. Every year, 29 teams and fans say the same thing. Spend our way to the playoffs.
What was available this year? Soto. Not happening. The next tier? Bergman? Goldschmidt? Both declining numbers and no way would they come here to play. If he took $40 from Boston means we would have to pay him $60mil.
Trade for Arenado? Again, another aging vet who would get crushed in Seattle and lose of prospects.
Our hitting is atrocious and no one available would either improve that or be willing to play here.
Unfortunately, we have to hit our way out of this mess on our own. Except for Crawford, I’d expect the younger players not to regress again. A little better situational hitting from current players would equal the wins needed for the playoffs.
Man- finally someone not obsessed with spending money and thinking that’s the end all be all of running a team. Just imagine if those hitter tend toward league average in many regards.
Look at the Ms record in one run games last year vs. the year before. Now imagine just a few more hits here and there. If we didn’t strike out with RISP? This team is close, and short of signing free agents, all we can do is hope the current players perform a little better, which statistically should be the case.
Now imagine this team in short series with a loaded starting staff.
You bring up Bregman and we’re throwing a guy in at 3rd who has never played 3rd and isn’t a good defender anyway and no longer can hit either? Of course we should have paid for Bregman!
The Mariners could have afforded Ohtani. They can afford Juan Soto and a ton of other free agents that they could’ve been in on.
It’s one thing to make a run at impact free agents and another for them to decline your offers. But the key is you have to MAKE THE OFFER!
The Mariners don’t.
I don’t think because it didn’t come to fruition that the Mariners didn’t put out feelers. Why waste their time on players who never would have signed in Seattle. But I’m sure they reached out to agents. When the agent laughed and said it would cost 50 percent more than market, the mariners didn’t feel the need to make it public or official.
And even if the mariners could afford a Soto or ohtani, which they cannot, you assume they would play here, which they won’t.
More so paying one guy 765mil for a market like Seattle means a lot of opportunity costs. I get it, all of you will now say Seattle is a major market with an unlimited budget and the owners should spend more.
Could it possible that they put out feelers and offered large amounts and agents and players told them to get bent before things got serious?
All I’m saying, and it’s seems everyone hates it, is we have to accept who we are and what our ownership wants to spend vs. what we think they should spend. More importantly, just because we don’t sign those free agents doesn’t mean there isn’t a path to a winning team, which we have
I’ll agree that we’re stuck with our cheap ownership group and the only thing we can do about it is stop supporting the team. That’s tough for anyone who has been a Mariners fan their whole life. But anyone who has been has seen this time and time again.
I’ll also agree that we don’t know everything that goes on behind the scenes and what offers may or may not have been made. But by all accounts, Divish, Drayer, Jude, MLBTR, LL, The Athletic, ESPN, etc. The Mariners were never in on any of these guys!
I’ve said it all offseason Seattle needs singles not Soto.
You’re missing the point this wasn’t the offseason to MAKE THE OFFER. Seattle stayed the same for all purposes. Who got better? Houston losing Bregman and Tucker? Nope. Anaheim? Nope. Oakland one could argue is “better” but that’s like saying 4 day old underwear is better than 7 day old underwear. 85-77 could realistically win the west. Add another year of development for one of the best farm systems in the game and this isn’t the time to spend. Gotta see the whole picture not just the stain in the corner.
First, The Score doesn’t run on rumors and Travis Sawchik is one of the best baseball writers out there. Second, there are many other sources out there with identical or similar numbers. Forbes puts out numbers.
You’re just determined to downplay everything that counters your opinion. So, have a good night.
You sound As if you have a lot of experience with 4 day old and 7 day old underwear.
Personally I enjoy at least one shower and change daily, but that’s just my preference.
As long as I don’t have to smell your 7 day a$$ it’s all good.
You really took time out of both our days for that?
Stevil- just saying casual fans like you whine every year about what we should spend and who we should sign. That’s old school mentality and isn’t based in reality. We can win with smarter decisions and operating within spending parameters. When will people accept that the M’s are not going to sign a big-name free agent hitters? In lieu of that, it doesn’t mean we cannot be competitive if we draft, develop and extend core talent. We can also make smart trade for controllable pieces.
But in so far as people like you always want more and want to blame owners for spending their money and speculating how profitable teams are, you will never be satisfied as a fan. Why do we deal with what we know- the M’s are not going to break the bank. DiPoto has restocked the ML system and yes, hopefully he can utilize it to build a better roster. How profitable they are is irrelevant as it’s up to them to spend what they want. You can complain, or applaud smart decisions like the Cal deal.
But continuing to blame the owners and GMs every though we know who they are isn’t going to move the needle. This team is winning, it can win. It needs to perform on the field.
That is the truth. I’d settle for a double play that scored a run. Or how about a sac fly? Put the ball in play and anything can happen.
You’re calling Stevil a casual fan? You sure don’t get out much which makes me suspect it’s the other way around and it’s you who are the casual fan.
Pretty sure Stevil is Brent Stecker of ESPN Seattle.
I’m just saying if you can’t produce real numbers no matter who is writing it, it’s speculative. Show me one article with IRS ironclad numbers on revenue. You can’t, because it doesn’t exist. More so, the numbers you showed illustrates a gap between rev and payroll and says nothing about actual profitability…not downplaying anything, just presenting the facts. As I said, if you can show me a real P and L that shows how much money the M’s are hoarding, then I’ll eat crow.
Casual fans like me,,,,
You have no idea.
I’m not Brent. But it’s funny you said that, because many, many people have thought I’m Shannon Drayer. I’m not her, either, I’m my own self! But I’m not casual, either. A lot of work goes into what I write and share.
The numbers that were already written and shared (and explained)?
Brilliant.
Believe whatever you want to believe, but nobody except you is questioning the rebuttable sources that report the numbers (with context).
Would you like some quotes from Dipoto and ownership about future spending at the time of the rebuild?
I’ll share some anyway….
“Clearly we are building a roster that is geared toward the future, and we’ve made no secret of it,” Dipoto said. “We see this as, this group starts to really arrive midway through 2020 and we feel like we become a fun and interesting team by ‘21, and then we have a young core on the field. And by that time, with some of the moves we’ve made that have brought all of this young talent into the system, we’ve also been able to cut off a lot of future salary commitment that then becomes capital to reinvest in player acquisition.”
More…
“Whether it be the free-agent market, whether it be trading for players who join that group by 2021, you can’t spend it if you don’t have it. What we’re doing now is we’re… re-arranging the furniture, so to speak, so that by the time this group starts to arrive in 2020 and then is on the field together for what we think will be a full season in ‘21, we have created payroll space. Rather than in 2021 paying Jean Segura, paying Robinson Canó, we’re paying it forward.”
And finally…
“If we’re not going to win it in 2018, then our goal is to determine what our best timeline is. You don’t see a lot of teams win championships with a group of players that are far north of age of the center or far south. Most of the guys are usually between 25 and 30 years old. That’s the line for us. We are looking at that 25- to 30-year-old group and trying to determine how many of them form a championship team and then looking at the teams around us, how realistic is it we can build a team around that group to compete around the teams ahead of us. It has to be a consideration.”
These were from 710 Seattle Sports articles/interviews.
If you can’t understand why ‘casual fans’ have been and are upset, with the organization, it’s because they recognize more than you’re allowing yourself to see: Broken promises, record profits, wasted opportunities., and a ticking clock.
Don’t think for a second that you know better than everyone else.
Boa noite
king5.com/article/sports/mlb/mariners/mariners-mos…
forbes.com/teams/seattle-mariners/#:~:text=13%20Se…
blessyouboys.com/2024/4/19/24134946/the-business-o…
Yeah they don’t open the books and never will but just because we don’t see the P & L statement doesn’t mean we can’t paint a fairly accurate picture.
Salty? I’m not sure what’s sadder, you actually believing what a sport’s team tells the general public, or you naivete about “profits” and revenue.
I know not a lot of people agree with my position, but it doesn’t make me wrong. All you casual fans believe what anybody writes, and yet NO proof about revenue and profits. Only conjecture. More so, the old adage that spending money equals winning is tired.
Yes, casual fans whine about what thing should be vs. the reality of economics. I for one, take things at face value.
1. Teams generally want to win.
2. Some (25 or so teams) operate withing a budget and parameters.
3. Fans get angry at the end of the year (29 of them) and want to spend money to win. We all can’t sign every free agent. Some don’t want to play here. How is that the owner’s fault?
4. Watch the games- this team is capable of performing without wasting money on overpriced FA’s. It just needs it’s current roster to perform as they are supposed to.
How’s the current complaining going? Do you feel like you’re being listened to? Do you think if fans get angry enough ownership will offer the next superstar FA 2 billion dollars because you’re mad at them? Would it guarantee a WS???
I am simply offering an alternative to the old mentality. It’s worked for a lot of mid-major market teams like the Brewers, Giants, Royals, Twins, Guardians, Cardinals (even the Red Sox and Braves).
Focus on draft and develop with a few smart trades. The reason I say you are a casual fan is that most smart fans understand that money has zero to do with winning or success. The Giants built their 2010 to 2014 run with internal talent and a few smart signings and trades. Same with the Red Sox. Not counting the Dodgers, they are the only franchises with 3 WS titles over the last 20 years.
Think different. Ask for something different. If you lower your expectations and understand we all can’t be the Dodgers or Mets or Yankees, you’ll be much happier as a fan. And we can still win and compete. But I am sorry the M’s broke promises to you. For that, I cannot help you.
I’m not reading that BS. I’ll mute you and you can rant to a wall.
Cool. Again, people still don’t understand it’s speculative. You could send me a 1,000 articles stating that, but if you read into how Forbes does it, it’s still just an estimate and does not show profitability. Even if the Mariners made trillions of dollars, my point being to all of you, is spending money does not equal winning.
It’s a simple concept and you all think every free agent would sign with us only if we offered them a lot of money.
I just don’t understand how people still think spending a ton on marginal free agents moves the needle.
How about this:
While MLB revenue estimates, particularly those from sources like Forbes, are based on publicly available information and industry knowledge, they are estimates, not definitive figures, and can vary in accuracy due to factors like revenue sharing, tax strategies, and the complexity of team financials.
Here’s a more detailed breakdown:
Estimates, Not Actuals:
MLB team financials are not generally publicly available, so estimates are based on publicly accessible data and industry knowledge.
Revenue Sharing:
MLB has a revenue-sharing system where teams contribute to a pool, and then receive a portion of that pool, which can impact individual team revenue.
Local Revenue:
Teams retain a significant portion of local revenues, such as ticket sales and concessions, which can vary greatly between teams and markets.
Tax Strategies:
Teams can use tax strategies, like the “roster depreciation allowance” (RDA), to reduce their reported income and potentially shift revenue.
Regional Sports Networks:
Teams often have ownership stakes in regional sports networks (RSNs), and the value of these contracts can impact revenue sharing calculations.
Forbes Estimates:
Forbes uses publicly accessible sources and their connections to create data on MLB’s financial health.
Transparency Issues:
The lack of transparency in MLB team financials makes it difficult to determine the accuracy of revenue estimates.
Overall Profitability:
Despite the complexities, MLB as a league is generally considered profitable
We all want the same thing. A winning Mariners team. We just disagree on how to get there. I say draft, develop, extend core players and trade for smart undervalued free agents that hit the f-ing ball. We have the ML system to do that. It works for a lot of other organizations. Why try or expect us to be a team we are not just because you read articles saying how much money we have.
It overlooks the fact we’ve been winning, just not enough.
That’s my point- you guys read articles with no facts on revenue or profits and it emboldens you to expect we are a large market team. We are NOT. Seattle is Not a major market.
Because of that expectation that Forbes sets, you guys get angry when we don’t sign Soto or spend tons of money on marginal free agents.
There is a realistic path to winning and we’re on it. Sure, it would be great to add some moves here and there. What I don’t understand is the expectation or entitlement to spend money frivolously because you think we’re on the same financial playing field as the Dodgers…not one of you have provided evidence that we’re a major market team.
I
Agree with everything you have presented thus far Steves 3…I am not as calm, patient, or eloquent as you trying to explain these very basic points to the naysayers and whingers. I don’t believe we can glean any more insight from their tired litany of complaints.
Those quotes above from Dipoto (pre-pandemic) were in anticipation of having breakout campaigns from Kyle Lewis & Evan White and on the cusp of acquiring Jarred Kelenic who was supposed to hit the ground running along with Julio.
Horrible injury luck, the pandemic, and the failure of Kelenic to launch put those plans on ice. At any rate, we have to applaud Jerry & the team for going out and getting some guys at the trade deadline last season. We have to applaud Jerry and the team for a highly ranked Top 5 farm system. We have a Top 3 starting rotation in baseball. We have the best CF and C in baseball, we have a lot to be thankful for actually, not that anyone would know that from listening to a very vocal part of our fanbase cry, whine, and gnash their teeth.
You nailed it. It crazy how people think- finally some other voices of reason.
Here we sign a fairly young, core player to an extension pre-arbitration at a reasonable price and it’s not good enough.
It’s always the same tired complaint. Owners are greedy and cheap, and the GM is horrible because we didn’t get Soto or Bregman. and so on.
Could it be the plan is working, this team is competitive. We’ve signed two of our best players to long term team friendly extensions. And that by “not” signing overpriced free agents we’re saving money to extend the starting pitching.
More so, our re-built ML system is giving us the trade chips to go after strategic controllable players without mortgaging the future
Steves you have a point but so do the others. Not sure why you think the Ms don’t share revenue. I know in the past they did. Maybe this ownership has decided not to.
What the last 2 owners have done use the team to turn a profit. Nintendo USA used it to at one point save the company. When gaming kind of died and there were not many good games being made they used their profits to boost the company. We can’t complain too much because the owner saved the team from leaving.
These games owners
Dang it big fingers. Was trying to fix the game to team. Del button is below the post. I heard there was a way to undo the post but not sure how.
These team owners all have the right to make money. But they also have to reward their fans with an attempt to win the WS. That means 3-4 years at least of higher payroll than a bit of a sell off to rebuild through the draft. They can make their profits at that point.
Lol. Yeah it was kind of stupid. However, you compared baseball finances to soiled underwear so I’m not sure what kind of response you expected. My apologies for the comment though.
Stevil,
I am, (and obviously many others) are curious who you are? I’m not asking for your real name, but if you wouldn’t mind giving us a sense of your background, career field, connection to the Mariners, something along those lines?
It’s clear you are way more than a casual fan, and A LOT more knowledgeable about “all things Mariners” than most, and certainly more than most are here.
Thanks
The tough answer that most fans don’t want to hear is they absolutely have to right to spend or not spend as owners.
Sure, it sucks and the appearance of not doing anything is hard to comprehend.
I truly wish we had ownership that didn’t have spending parameters. All I am saying is there is a lot of assumptions about how much teams make, how profitable they are, and what they should spend.
In lieu of an ownership group like the Dodgers or Mets, most teams absolutely have spending parameters.
Bottomline:
1. Spending doesn’t equal winning
2. Even if the M’s were the most profitable team in sports, it’s clear they don’t want to overspend or overpay on free agents. It does NOT mean they haven’t tried. Accept that.
3. In the meantime, shore up core talent and plan for major future expenses.
4. If you don’t like how current ownership is running the team, don’t watch or purchase Root Sports or merchandise, etc.
What’s tiring is the same argument. M’s are rich, therefore they should spend more money. We have zero idea how profitable they are. What we do know is they’ve had a loaded ML system and talented current pitching that will require money.
Let’s focus on what we have rather than what we think we should have. The talent is there. And yes, it doesn’t mean we should not strive to improve the roster. I assume Dipoto will use the ML system to bring in more controllable players if we are competing.
yep. your belly aching to spend more money, that the Mariners are the richest team in sports, and that we should signed Judge, Harper, Ohtani and Soto, Bregman, Goldschmidt, et is clear evidence of your inside knowledge of how baseball economics works.
Your go to? A forbes article stating revenue vs. payroll without accounting for 10 other expense factors that owners have. But keep using as your evidence and that clearly makes you the smartest and best M’s fan.
All I am saying is we don’t know anything about the team’s financials. just assumptions. In lieu of that, we can still win and be competitive. A real fan would understand that…
There is zero evidence of them sharing an actual P and L….Owners would be crazy to share this information for exactly the reason I’m complaining about. They don’t want us to know.
Yeah, it sucks. But that’s business. Imagine we really knew the M’s were hoarding cash and lining their pockets vs. buying free agents??? It’s lose-lose for them, so they error on the side of keeping fans guessing. I’m not saying that’s right, but it’s clearly a PR issue if numbers were disclosed.
I mean both you and your super fan buddy Stevil think Seattle is a major market team with unlimited resources. That’s a red-flag on your judgement right off the bat.
For reference and to lay my cards on the table:
I’m a 50 year old male. I grew up on a farm/ranch/orchard in North Idaho. We didn’t get the Mariners on TV, but I listened to the games on the radio. Dave Neihaus and Rick Rizzs instilled a passion for the game and the Mariners in me and it’s never left.
I attended my first game in Seattle at age 14 (1989). The M’s lost and Fred McGriff hit 2 homers against us that day. After that, I started working my summers in Seattle at concessions so I could attend games.
After High School I joined the military and was stationed in South Korea. I was able to listen to the Mariners on Armed Forces Radio and watch on Armed Forces Korea Network.
In Korea, I studied Martial Arts and taught English at an all girl high school when not on duty.
After completing my service I attended college at the University of Idaho before leaving to return to Korea and continue training in Martial Arts. I taught English and worked in a Michelin Star Korean restaurant and eventually earned my Master certificate from World Taekwondo Headquarters in Seoul.
I returned to the States and moved to Seattle and opened a Chinese/Korean restaurant, a dojang and volunteered at a martial arts nonprofit working in the areas of grant writing and Olympics promotions and certifications.
After Safeco was opened my nonprofit bought season tickets every year in a corporate suite, so I was able to attend games anytime I wanted and part of my job was to be a liaison and take international delegates to the games. In doing so, I had to learn many aspects of the game, the team, the business and be able to give intelligent answers to a wide variety of questions.
After 6 years, I closed my restaurant and moved back to North Idaho to help my parents with their farm/ranch/orchard while my dad recovered from an accident. After he recovered, my wife and I bought some acreage in the mountains on the Idaho/Montana border and I started working as an executive Director of a military nonprofit which I do currently. In my spare time I follow the Mariners, Seahawks, Kraken and Gonzaga and Idaho avidly.
You seem like a decent person. I am sorry to insult your loyalty. We are of similar age and have similar formative memories of the M’s.
But that’s my point. When did us grateful Mariners fans just happy to have a team become entitled fans thinking we’re a major market organization?
I get it’s frustrating, but we’re in the same boat as most other teams.
We have to accept the fact, regardless of actual financial health, that the M’s are not going to break the bank for free agents. More so, most of those don’t want to play here. Our greatest players were either drafted or traded for.
All I am saying for anyone who is listening, is we’re not the Dodgers or Mets. Therefore, we must be creative in how we stay competitive in lieu of spending money. I don’t understand why some fans can’t accept that and believe we’re an organization with unlimited resources with a market that big names want to play in…we are NOT.
We need/have to draft, develop and retain core players with a smattering of smart trades and the occasional free agent who is willing to play in Seattle. We’ve done this with a loaded ML system.
I just don’t see how getting angry about who we should have signed (even though they wouldn’t play here) is productive as a fan.
Money, a flurry of spending, does not equal winning. I know everyone says standing pat over the winter is the end of the world, but this team is competitive. Sure, their hitting sucks and fully expect a trade if we’re in the thick of things.
Steves 3,
I don’t claim to be the smartest person in the room and never have. I have admitted that I have never seen a P and L from the Mariners and never will. I do accept that ownership has the right to determine the budget as they see fit and there’s little we, as fans can do about it.
I’m trying not to what you say personally and not to make anything I say personal. As far as entitlement goes, we are all entitled to our opinions. My opinion is based on my experiences and what I’ve seen from ownership, all the owners over the years and my own experience with what I have done to support the team.
If fans are more than “casual” it means they are truly “invested” in the team. In that since and in terms of loyalty they are entitled to have that support pay off in a WS title, especially when their continued support is tied to believing, however naive that may be, the Mariners owner and General Manager’s own words about financial commitments, promises of a World Series and so on.
I actually agree with much of what you are saying and have admitted as much in this and previous threads.
At times, it seems to me that you keep moving the goalposts in terms of the initial argument.
Like I’ve said before, if the Mariners can win a title spending 100 million, more power to them! But the main reason I want to see some significant free agent spending, or at least offers, is because what they’ve been doing for the past 48 has not been working. After making the playoffs for the first time in 20 years, we backslid and it seems like if we had just upgraded even a little on the offense side we could have continued to be a playoff contender.
Instead, we did nothing to upgrade the offense and went backwards. How long should Mariner fans remain loyal, faithful, patient and content?
That’s for each fan to determine for themselves.
As you said, spending does not guarantee winning. Likewise, lack of spending guarantees nothing. The draft, develop, trade strategy has not paid off. That doesn’t necessarily mean it cant or won’t, but how long should it take?
It feels almost criminal that we have drafted and developed a pitching staff of this caliber and a ML system of this caliber, but will not supplement it with a few proven quality hitters.
As you say, we don’t know what offers they put out there? Likewise, we don’t know if they even did make any offers?
For every point there is a counterpoint and this could go on forever. I respect your position, but I feel mine is also valid. I don’t feel like a “casual” fan.
I hear what you are saying, but we do spend money. Giving extensions is literally spending money. What I don’t agree with is saying we can sign everyone because we’re the richest team in baseball. Two things, hitters in their prime don’t want to play here, and hitters pasted their prime would be a waste of money.
But we spend money. We extended Julio for 470mil, Cal for 105mil. Castillo a few years back.
Perhaps we’re saving on FA’s to extend some of the young arms.
The window isn’t over. The pitching staff is young. Now we need hitters to perform. Imagine if Crawford hit .250? A full year of Robles and Arrorenza? And the later performing at league average?
No one was complaining when we were 10 games up on the Astros. I’m just don’t freak out and waste money on hypothetical free agents and lets not confuse spending money frivolously vs. smart spending.
I personally think even if we could afford a Soto, Trout, Judge, etc it would come at the costs of having a balanced team. I personally think having to overspend on a Bregman or Goldschmidt just to have the appearance of doing something is misguided.
Granted, if years pass and we’ve wasted this window it would be a shame.
If you start with 2 premises. 1) We are not the Dodgers, Yankees, or Mets. We’re not even the Phillies, Braves, Red Sox, Giants, Padres, Cubs, or Astros. 2) We have operational and budget constraints but still want to be competitive. Yes we are profitable, but the general public doesn’t know.
If you can accept that, we can start to understand that most mid major teams are going to operate during windows of competitions. If we accept that, we will act less entitled as fans and that baseball economics states we can’t have it all. We can hope, be frustrated, and complain but we are who we are.
In so far as fans operate under the impression, we are filthy rich and we’re just not offering FA’s enough money, then I don’t know what to say. I still don’t understand how M’s fans started believing we’re on the same playing field as the Dodgers.
I do want to point out one last thing using crude math to illustrate that the money and financial assumptions are off base. That the owners aren’t all super billionaires’ hording profits.
current ownership group paid $661mil (17 minority owners) plus Nintendo still has a 10 percent equity stake. That’s about 38.8mil a piece.
Even if we assume a high number of 80mil a year profit during a 2023-24 revenue and payroll season (this is what you all point on the interweb).
Take 10 percent off the top and give it to Nintendo corp. Then divide 72mil by 17 minority owners, which is 4.2mil.. Each individual owner will have their own tax implications depending on how the entity is set up. So, figure 2.6mil a piece after taxes. That’s only if the ownership group distributes a return to themselves, which we don’t know.
Of course, it’s a lot more complicated than this but for a few million dollars return on 38.8mil individual investment doesn’t sound like greed to me. They could easily have invested in a more profitable business if they were truly greedy.
Cal got the same amount of FA money (not including Arb years bought out) as Eovaldi, Manaea, and Tanner Scott all got this year. There is a reason the best teams (LAD, Houston, Baltimore, etc) draft, develop, trade. It’s silly money in FA on a crapshoot of who ends up being good or not.
That’s my point. Spending large amounts of money on free agents is crapshoot. Draft, develop, and retain core talent. Trade the rest. The Mariners are doing that.
More so, none of the big-name free agent hitters even seriously entertained signing in Seattle. It was all wishful thinking from fans.
And so many people said it would never happen. That he was as good as gone.
This is good news. And good on Cal for sticking it out!
I wonder what kind of promises (or lies) they had to make to him in terms of overall future payroll and competitiveness?
I too have those same reservations (fears) based on their history that you do.
But I’m really happy Cal resigned!
Cal Raleigh and Mike Piazza are the only two primary catchers with at least 3 seasons with 25+ home runs since 2000. Not to mention Raleigh is elite defensively. Seems like a great deal for the Mariners.
Langeliers only 2 full MLB seasons and 22 & 29, respectively, and he’s not in his prime yet, about to play a few seasons in a MiLB home park.
If he keeps having elite defense and 750-800 ops that’s HOF like pudge or Molina
Yeah, but Molina and Rodriguez had the benefit of starting their careers at a very early age. Rodriguez was 19 when he made his debut and was 20 by the time he became the Rangers’ full-time catcher. Molina was the Cards’ full-time backstop by 22. Raleigh was already 25 when he became a fulltimer. I could see him as a Mike Napoli type, but more than good enough defensively to stay behind the dish, which is a still very valuable player.
sad – Cal was at the very top of my trade wish list, I would have given up BOTH Grissom and Rafaela for him. It really bums me out that he has a full NTC now, no chance he ever agrees to get traded to the Red Sox.
Kirk was my second choice, he’s off the table now too.
Who is left for catchers? I wonder what it would take to trade for Teel …….
You would have given up 2 players that don’t have a future in Boston? lol.
mariners – You’re probably right about Grissom, but Rafaela is the starting CF with 7 years remaining on his contract … and according to some Sox fans here, he’s the next Mookie Betts ;O)
Rafaela doesn’t really fit the M’s roster. We have players with his best attributes/position solidified on the roster and he can’t hit a lick, which the M’s need to get away from. Grissom stinks. I can’t help but think that package is a complete non-starter.
My – Rafaela did have 15 homers and 75 RBI last year. He just has poor swing decisions, but he’s looked much better this spring.
“Really bums me out”. That’s some really weird victimhood. Enjoy your bumming.
Major – Victimhood?
That’s a really weird interpretation of “bums me out”.
I was also bummed out when UConn lost to Florida Sunday, does that make me a “victim” Sunday as well?
Bad contract on day 1
Worst comment on day 1.
ok bookmark this page and let’s talk at the end of this season.. deal?
How about 5 seasons?
It’s a 6-year deal. One good or bad season won’t be telling of much, but the bar is low. He’s vital to Seattle’s pitching staff and brings the glove every night. The fact that he can hit for power has been the bonus.
But, sure! We can revisit this in a year for fun.
@WideWorldof Sports, he’s far and away the best defensive catcher in MLB who plays +140 games every year. His power isn’t going anywhere. Maybe by year 5 of this deal he starts to regress, but he’s just hitting his prime now.
Hahaha
Thanks for showing you’re not paying any attention to the actual topic of discussion. Cal has been one of the hardest working guys in all of baseball. He’s the top catcher in the league, switch hitter with power, great with the pitching staff and a gold glove defender. Take your rubbish back to your mom’s basement.
And why do you think that???
It’s actually a great signing!!
“Bad contract”…I’m as conservative as it gets on teams giving out long term deals. That being said, this seems like good deal for the team, since the terms seem reasonable and catchers are vital to any pitching staff.
I think this may be one of the best, most necessary deals in Mariner’s team history. I’ll take a strong defensive catcher, who hits(with power) on my team any day of the week. But that, is just one man’s opinion.
Adding…
He’s a great catcher for the next 6 years.
$100 million is a great contract for the team and the player.
Agreed. Lots of complaining about GM and owners not doing anything and when they sign the #1 catcher in the league to a reasonable extension before free agency, it’s deemed bad or not enough.
Let’s view each deal at face value. He’s in prime and even if he’s a DH in the back half of the deal it’s relatively affordable for a player who be in his early to mid 30s.
Terrible take. He’d be worth it alone for a DH if he can maintain his bat. Being a good defensive catcher as well is a bonus.
Ok guys let’s see lol
You can say “let’s see” for literally any contract since teams pay for future value. That doesn’t change the fact that, based on track record, age, and attributes, it’s a good deal. So even though “we’ll see” if it pays off, the belief that it’s a bad contract at the time of signing is goofy even if you end up being right.
You laid a turd on day one.
Spotrac assigned Cal Raleigh a market value of eight years and about $194 million for an AAV of $24.2 million:
spotrac.com/mlb/player/market-value/_/id/26119/cal…
… based on the assumption that Raleigh were a free agent, not a player entering the first of three arbitration seasons.
If you have a catcher that doesn’t mess the bed, you keep him, and Raleigh sure doesn’t mess the bed.
Agree, he strikes out a ton, has a low average and hits home runs. Who was the last guy like this Adam Dunn?
bad contract
BIG deal for BIG DUMPER
Seattle face with an Oakland booty?
Any relation to looking California and feeling Minnesota?
Nice signing M’s! Grats to team & player
Kind of! Great, absolutely great band from Seattle
I lean towards Staley being my fav, but geez Louise if Cornell isn’t always right there too. Flip a coin!
AIC will always be my favorite but Superunknown is easily one of my favorite albums ever. Win win
“Oh yeahhh!!!” – you
Ultra Rare W by Jerry. Have Julio & Dumper locked up for the long term, now if only we would spend outside of the org……………………………
Actually it’s a win-win situation. Cal’s no spring chicken, generational financial security for the player. Definitely not an overpay for one of the top all around catchers in the game.
PAYH THAT MYAN HEES MONEY!!!
Not Rounders movie.. lmao
This is most likely only a bad deal for Raleigh if he continues to be a gold glove HR hitting All-Star.
It’s bad for the M’s if he stops hitting HRs and somehow has defensive skills that decline dramatically. Odds are that won’t happen.
He’ll never hit for average… but the M’s aren’t paying for that.
The makes sense for both sides.
Cal mashes and plays good defense. The batting average is negligible.
Jeez, that’s a lotta dough for a guy who posts prime Mike Zunino stats… I don’t know a lot about the guy, admittedly, but he better be a great catcher for that price tag.
He was the best catcher in the game last year. Won a platinum glove.
He’s the best Defensive catcher in baseball. This contract is a bargain.
Zunino never once was as consistent as Raleigh. He only had 2 seasons with at least 100 games played and an OPS+ above 100. Raleigh has done that now 3 seasons in a row, with over 140 games in each of the last two years. If he plays anything like he has in 2023 or 2024, he’ll also surpass Zunino in fWAR in just his 4th season.
Zunino’s best year was worse than Cal’s worst year.
The only season that comes close is 2017, when he had 25 home runs, a 125 OPS+, and +4.4 fWAR. But Raleigh averages more home runs, fWAR, and has a comparable 118 OPS+ over the last 3 seasons.
Big Z does have one of the greatest June’s in the history of catchers (2017).
You most definitely don’t know a lot about the guy. At least you’re honest.
“I don’t know a lot about the guy” but here’s my words if wisdom!
So what do they do with Ford who’s looked pretty good so far?
Use him as a backup. You do need two catchers.
Ford saw a few games in left field last season. I could see him turning into a Daulton Varsho type.
Perfect world, Ford would be backup catcher and play 3b/LF once he’s ready
What’s super important from my perspective is to have a catcher who does not bat 8th or 9th in your line up. He also needs to be good enough to DH on your team on off days. Theres only a few franchises that can boast this and they are all relevant largely because the average catcher bats at very bottom of order
Brewers
Seattle
Baltimore
Where a franchise can really separate themselves is to have 2 catchers that fit the mold. I’ve never considered ford a top 50 prospect but he has consistently produced and showed value to his game. He’s the perfect 1B prototype catcher and if he started for two pitchers while Raleigh caught the rest it would drastically reduce the wear and tear on your catching tandem while providing 8-10 wins a season above league average.
Be nice to see the Ms bring that together! Really disappointed in their offseason and I’m questioning direction while in the past I was quick to defend Trader J
Good player. On the other hand, catchers don’t age well and long term catcher contracts are risky. Sean Murphy for example.
Probably would’ve been smarter to just let him go through arb, but locking up a fan favorite will keep the fan base happy.
Sean Murphy has been a big disappointment for the Braves.
I like Raleigh. How can you not? But he is a 28 year old catcher who is a 3 true outcomes hitter. The defense is elite and will keep him valuable if the power lessens. But we’ve seen catchers fall off a cliff in their 30’s. Its a big gamble but i think its a must for the M’s. Hopefully he stays healthy because he’s led the MLB and the AL in catcher appearances the last 2 years.
Why would Cal do this; this org doesn’t have his best interest at heart.
Harry Ford is not a catcher after this.
He has 100+ million reasons to do this, and he avoids his career getting screwed by an injury.
I run him at SS to see if he can handle it this year in AAA. I’m not sold on Crawford as long term starter. Any way to get his walking skills and wheels to seattle sooner, I’m taking it. Ford might make the callup to mariners by 1st of July.
Guaranteed $100 million plus.
He’s slightly smarter than Ian Desmond.
Dude had 4.7 war. 119 ops+. 34 bombs. 100 rbi. And won the platinum glove and was not an all star? MLB needs to retroactively nominate all star awards. You can’t have the best positional season in MLB and not make the all star team. Dumb.
I mean if he didnt make the all star team he didnt make the all star team.. you just want MLB to lie? Maybe they should have a thing like football where they have the All-Pro teams, which is separate from making the Pro-Bowl team.
How do you change it ? You would have to move all star game until October maybe ? That would be cool to have a 3 game series on days the World Series was off !
Atleast he’s not gonna be another jason veritek(traded away and became a team HofF’r)
But you got Heathcliff Slocum!!
And saved us from Derek Lowe!
He seems driven to improve every year. Comes to camp in better shape each year. Has a great connection with all the young pitchers. He’s the teams leader. Pretty fun core the mariners have.
Epic moment for him
In 2022 . Hitting an go ahead home run in the 9th inning with 2 outs, full count. hits the home run to send us to the playoffs and end a 21 season drought
Now go get Gilbert and Kirby signed
Yes! Finally paying the man!
Some of you people remind me of some old guys that used to hang out at the coffee shop…if it was cloudy…one would say…Damnit…it’s going to rain today and if it was clear the other would say…Damnit…it’s going to be hot today…just no pleasing some of you
The Mariners have a good one and are locking him up for the next 6 years.
What’s not to like?
Looks like a sunny day to me
Beautifully said, Mr 3-finger
Please don’t leave us hanging. Why are the old guys no longer hanging at the coffee shop? Have they all passed away? Did the coffee shop close?
That coffee shop was at a Vons Grocery store that had a snack bar and there would be six to eight guys that would come in every morning and solve the problems of the world and even talk about baseball 🙂
Okay, I was worried because of your use of the past tense.😂
Amen
6 years for a 28 year old catcher is risky business. But I guess Raleigh is one of the best ones to extend.
This is a great deal for both sides. His avg can stand to improve a little, but everything else in his game is top notch. HRS, RBIS,throwing out runners, framing. He was rated the platinum glove winner at C. And he’s the most clutch hitter on the team with RISP the last 3 years. He deserves his $ & his flowers.
The Mariners are spending money! The Mariners are spending money! The Mariners are spending money! The Mariners are spending money! The Mariners are spending money! The Mariners are spending money!
Now go lock up Logan Gilbert and George Kirby and deal at the deadline this year for a bat or two for players that may have spendy contracts that you take on, but make you better at the plate for the next two years.
They better considering how quiet they have been all offseason
#brm !!! The season is upon us. Bwahahahaha
I think there is genuine interest in locking up Gilbert. I have doubts about Kirby. I think they’ll want to assess Sloan or Cijntje (and Evans) before they do too much.
Moving Kirby could net them a haul. Surely they’re considering that (as a future option).
Let’s play catch and throw some hypotheticals… how much for Kirbs? And ideally speaking, whatcha-all lookin’ for?
There seem to be so few catchers that can provide value with the bat and on the defensive side of the game.. Seems like a really good idea for the Mariners to lock him up.
Agreed. Blue Jays did it recently with Alejandro Kirk. Jose Trevino with the Reds as well for his high-ish floor. Hope the Yankees can work an extension for Austin Wells soon although he’s pre-arb.
Almost twice what Kirk got. I remember somebody in that thread responding to a Mariners fan with something like “what are the Mariners doing?” And Boom! Here we are….
Hoping Teel works out for the White Sox. He was the big piece from Crochet trade.
In this Tigers fan humble opinion, I think Raleigh’s a top 2 catcher in the game. Right up there with William Contreras. Ruschman 3rd, then 4th and 5th would be between Will Smith and Sal Perez.
Big Dumper with a truck load!
Where did this photo originate?? It seems non-standard
I do not value war much. And team war is such a ridiculous stat it should be heresy to reference it in an article lol.
212 is actually not a terrible average in this day in age, especially for a catcher. The difference between now and 20-30 years ago is the evolution of pitching. I heard a former mlb pitcher who had 10+ years experience and is prob 55-60 today give a speech and he said there was one guy in all his playing time that was on his team that could throw harder than 95. Bring back the days of 89mph fastball and the days of 250/260 average will return
Yankee fans would have dumped him after his rookie year
Screaming we want an over the hill overpaid catcher not a catcher who can grow to be a star
For proof, look at the way the fans treat
Volpe like trash
Because Volpe has a ton to prove still
That is absurd
You get a quality catcher, you do everything to keep him. That’s why Baltimore needs to extend Adley this year.
*this month.
Congrats Cal,…. The folks of Franklin County, VT and I are proud of you. All Star year !!
How does having a Big Butt impact a player’s longevity?
Mute worthy post.
Do you not know where his nickname “Big Dumper” comes from? Or that body types have different age curves?
Big Dumper is a Mariner Catcher For Life*. That’s awesome.
*He’ll be a 1B by then end of the contract, I’ll bet.
I think in years 4-6 he’ll split time between C/1B/DH. This is assuming they don’t trade Ford though, because this extension might signal that way.
There’s a lot of doubt that Ford sticks at catcher: of course, that makes him as trade bait probably even more likely, get value for him while folks still think he’s a catcher.
A note on this article that i think is interesting, the article says only 4 other catchers received more then 53 mil in free agency, that should prob have since x date on it because Mike Piazza receive a 7 year 91 mil deal in 1998 to stay with the Mets, and it seems like there are a few other catchers missed, historically.
The Mariners spending money was not on my 2025 bingo card.
Best Catcher in MLB. Would say he’s surpassed JT Realmuto and Salvador Perez, considering his age, power and ability behind the dish.
Take the money now and extend Gilbert, miller and woo. Trade Kirby next year for a boatload of prospects, and bring up 3-4 top prospects for the next couple years and we should be good to go.
Baller!
Congrats to Cal Raleigh. One of the most physically and mentally demanding pro sports jobs.
Raleigh’s extension isn’t just about retention—it’s an arbitrage play on catcher impact that no one’s quantifying fully. Catchers like him don’t just hit; they amplify pitching staffs (Seattle’s mound success tracks his tenure), yet teams underpay for this ripple effect because it’s hard to measure. A 1,000 IQ team could exploit this: target and extend two-way backstops in their mid-20s, betting their outsized influence on ERA and strikeouts outweighs their cost relative to flashier positions. The market fixates on WAR or AAV (Raleigh’s $17.5MM average is high for a catcher), but misses how a $105MM catcher could save $50MM in pitching upgrades by boosting staff efficiency. The Mariners, with their pitcher-friendly park and extension-heavy strategy, are uniquely positioned to test this, yet no one frames it as a systemic edge.
I think this deal is less about good game management as catcher and more about Raleigh having value as the defacto team captain, especially on a team that kept letting team leaders go. After he publicly criticized the team for not making moves, it has been reported that Dipoto has been keeping him in the loop over off-season moves. Julio might be the guy the team uses in marketing but Raleigh is probably the heart of the team.
This is for all the naysayers who say the Mariners can’t afford their own players and players will never want to resign here. Way to go morons. Logan is up next.
Not really. The Mariners ownership is still cheap. They should’ve made some noise this offseason to win a title. The pitching is in place but they refused to make their team better by paying a bat or four.
Yes, really. You should learn how to read better. I said to all the naysayers that’s said the Mariners can’t afford to resign their OWN players and that they wont want to resign here. Said nothing about other players or the Mariners not willing to pay for free agents this offseason. Never said they weren’t cheap either. You’re good at making things up. Concrete reading skills will go a long way in helping you not sound like an idiot. Cheers!
What’s up with the defensive, aggressive response? He gave an opinion within the same context: The ability to afford good players.
And he certainly isn’t wrong.
Didn’t say he was wrong. He’s right in what he said. But he’s arguing to me something I never even said. Happens here far too often.
Congrats, Mariner Enjoyers!
That’s a serious overpay.
No, it’s not.
Raleigh is a very good defensive catcher that averages 30 bombs a year with an excellent walk rate and fantastic batted ball metrics. He actually might have left money on the table since there’s a pretty good chance that he would have been able to beat 3 years at $23 million a year on the open market after 2027.
One reason to be excited about the Mike Piazza comparisons is that Mike Piazza played in a World Series and if the Mariners play the Mets in the World Series the Mariners will win.
If he played any position but catcher he probably wouldn’t sniff this much in career earnings even. It’s insane how bad that position can be and get paid tremendously. 220. Career average, even with HR power wouldn’t sniff this type of contract.
I didn’t know he was so good defensively before my post but I’m so much happier to have Salvy in KC and Fermin now too with this guy costing so much.
Congrats cal. You deserve it. Btw make him the captain
He’s got a good glove but…
This contract has the makings of something that will be regretted. It’s not enough money or years to be a complete albatross, but enough to potentially handicap a team that is already hesitant to spend big.
He’s a power only, high strike out, low obp, not fast catcher. He’s a switch hitter that may benefit from going lefty-only. Hitters like this tend to peak early.
And now he has a no trade clause.
VegasSD,
Cal Raleigh won the Platinum Glove last year. Do your homework.
Oh yeah, he hit 34 Home Runs as well Oh wait, he had 100 RBI’s also…Come on….Be better.
If you hit 34 HRs but only have 100 RBIs, something is wrong. .280 OBP.
He needs to hit more, walk more, strike out less. Otherwise he’ll be JP Arencebia in 2 years.
“…one of the best two-way catchers in the game.”
Maybe this is nitpicking (I realize folks don’t care about language much anymore) (“The MLB,” anyone?), but I went to look at his pitching record and didn’t see it. I’m guessing that this is a new way of referring to a switch-hitter?
If anyone’s curious what Forbes reported on the Mariners’ earnings and expenses last year, they posted this the other day….
forbes.com/teams/seattle-mariners/?list=mlb-valuat…
I personally trust reputable sources more than condescending fans who think they know everything about everything.
Be the fan you want to be. Don’t let anyone here tell you different.
Happy Opening Day!
Team and fans hope he maintains his production for the life of the contract
Just like when the mariners gave a 13 year contract to Stanton