There seems to be a great deal of frustration surrounding the Mariners, which isn’t limited to the fanbase. Former Mariner Justin Turner sounded off on the situation to Bob Nightengale of USA Today yesterday, blasting the organization for its lack of aggression. That column led to Ryan Divish of The Seattle Times seeking the response of various players, who kept themselves anonymous. President of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto also spoke about the state of the franchise to Sam Blum of The Athletic in a piece published today, though the piece didn’t reference Turner’s comments or the USA Today piece and said the Dipoto interview actually took place “earlier” this spring.
“The fact that they missed the playoffs by one game, and didn’t go out and add an impact bat or two when you have the best pitching staff in baseball,” Turner said to Nightengale, “just seems absurd to me.”
The Mariners went 85-77 last year, a solid season and their fourth straight above .500. But as Turner mentioned, they narrowly missed the playoffs, just as they did in 2021 and 2023. Their postseason appearance in 2022 is their only one since 2001. Their decent-but-underwhelming results last year were the result of an imbalanced team. Their 3.49 earned run average was tied with Atlanta for best in the league. The starting staff’s 3.38 ERA was best in the majors. But the offense was more middling, with a .224/.311/.376 batting line as a club.
The club surely would have loved to add more offense but didn’t have significant resources to do so. Reporting throughout the winter indicated that the Mariners were going to increase payroll by around $15MM relative to last year. Cot’s Baseball Contracts estimated their Opening Day payroll at $140MM. RosterResource projects them to go into 2025 at $152MM, a $12MM increase. Their free agent signings this winter have been a $3.5MM deal for Donovan Solano, a 37-year-old infielder, and bringing back Jorge Polanco. The M’s turned down a $12MM club option on Polanco, opting for the $750K buyout, but re-signed him via a one-year, $7.75MM deal with a player/vesting option.
Generally speaking, the club hasn’t been a big player in free agency. Cot’s hasn’t had the club’s payroll higher than 11th in the league in any of the past 15 seasons. They’ve been in the bottom half of the league in each of the past five years. In the past decade, they have only twice given a free agent a guarantee larger than $24MM. Yusei Kikuchi got a four-year, $56MM deal back in 2019, though he opted out after three years. Robbie Ray got a five-year, $115MM deal but was traded to the Giants after two years.
Turner was acquired from the Blue Jays at last year’s deadline and finished the year with the Mariners. According to Divish, the club offered him a deal to return, with the guarantee larger than the $6MM pact he eventually accepted from the Cubs. At the time of the offer from the M’s, Turner seemingly felt he could do better and didn’t accept, which prompted the M’s to pivot to Solano and Polanco.
Turner made clear that his criticism wasn’t mere sour grapes about not being re-signed. “Honestly, as much as I wanted to be back there,” Turner said to Nightengale, “if I was the only piece they brought back in, I would be saying the same thing: What the hell are we doing? Are you trying? There’s not going to a better time to go for it. So, I don’t know what they’re doing. I’m very confused. It’s a head-scratcher for me.”
Ultimately, the criticism is mostly geared towards ownership and the lack of resources it has provided to the front office. “I thought [Pete] Alonso was a slam-dunk,” Turner said. “How can you not go after him? You kidding me?” But Alonso re-signed with the Mets on a two-year, $54MM deal. He will get $30MM of that in the first year, which is double what the Mariners had to work with this winter. Turner emphasized that he didn’t hold Dipoto responsible for the parameters he was given.
“I think Jerry catches a bad rap for a lot of these trades and how crazy some of these trades have been,” Turner said. “But now being a part of it, I kind of understand. He doesn’t have any money to spend, so he’s got to create money. Like, OK, is it really Jerry’s fault?” Turner then referenced the 2021 trade wherein the M’s sent Kendall Graveman to the Astros for Abraham Toro, saying he “probably needed to trade guys just to be able to spend money in the offseason, which is nuts.”
Turner also expressed sympathy for the club’s frustrated supporters who are caught up in the situation. “I feel for them. They’ve got great fans. Their fans are amazing. They want to win so bad. The team is very profitable. And they don’t spend.”
It’s perhaps illustrative of a level of discontent that exists in the Seattle clubhouse but doesn’t always come out. Catcher Cal Raleigh expressed some frustration after the club’s disappointing 2023 season finished, though he later apologized. “We’ve got to commit to winning,” Raleigh said at that time, “to going and getting those players. You see other teams going out, going for it, getting big-time pitchers, getting big-time hitters. We have to do that to keep up.”
Turner is no longer in the organization and is also 40 years old, meaning he doesn’t have to fear any negative repercussions for speaking out. The incumbent Mariners who spoke to Divish refrained from going on the record but seemed to largely agree with Turner’s points.
Though the player frustration seemed to be largely pointed at ownership, many Seattle fans have their frustrations with Dipoto. His now-infamous “54%” comments from October of 2023 are sort of legendary among his haters. For those unfamiliar, after the club just missed the playoffs in October of 2023, Dipoto said that “teams that win 54 percent of the time always wind up in the postseason and they more often than not wind up in a World Series. … Nobody wants to hear ‘the goal this year is we’re going to win 54 percent of the time.’ But over time that type of mindset gets you there.”
Blum asked him about those comments and his general ability to speak in a manner that seems to rub people the wrong way. “People obviously didn’t understand it the way I expressed it,” Dipoto said. “My guess is that 98 percent of people didn’t actually listen to it. They just read it off a tweet. It’s what it is. Maybe they wouldn’t have understood it any better had they heard the whole thing. And that’s on me for poorly communicating what I think is a simple idea.”
Dipoto says he has scaled back his media appearances since he’s aware that he’s become something of a lightning rod. “Truly, I could say ‘hello,’” Dipoto said, “and it would turn into a thing right now.” He also expressed to Blum that the very interviewing he was giving would probably not be well received. “I’m gonna get roasted,” he said to Blum.
He did somewhat attempt to frame the lack of spending as a strategy, saying that most great teams have been “built on a foundation of draft, sign, develop or trade. That’s what we’ve communicated to our fans for a decade.” Though at the same time, he also said he’s aware there’s a desire for “The big move. The grand slam. The big free agent.” and that “maybe that’ll happen at some point” but they “didn’t think this was the right time, or the right group of players that fit for us.”
Regardless of how one feels about it, the club is largely banking on the Seattle lineup continuing a strong finish to the 2024 season. The club acquired both Turner and Randy Arozarena at the deadline last year. A few weeks later, they fired manager Scott Servais and hitting coach Jarret DeHart. Servais was replaced by Dan Wilson while Edgar Martínez took over as hitting coach. Martínez is still with the club but with the title of senior director, hitting strategy. He’s not expected to go on road trips, with Kevin Seitzer now to be the club’s primary hitting coach, though he will apparently report to Martínez.
For what it’s worth, the M’s hit .264/.347/.433 in the month of September. That translated to a 128 wRC+ for that month, a mark that trailed only the Dodgers. That was a huge upgrade over the .216/.304/.364 they hit from March to August. We’re talking about just one month, and some of Seattle’s opponents were out of contention and playing out the string. But if there was any meaningful improvement in there that the M’s could carry over, they could be in a better position than last year. If not, it could lead to another offseason of frustration in Seattle.
Turner is speaking for thousands of mariner fans me included. That’s why after 50 years I’m done with them until they prove otherwise that they want to win. I’m not going to support a team that just wants my money and doesn’t want to win. That’s no way to root for a team. You want that team to win a championship and this ownership group has no interest in that. So i’m changing allegiances…LFGM!!!
If enough fans would cancel season tickets cancel cable bill they would make more effort. Maybe. They seem stupid. I see a good fan base and a baseball town. Winning the off season and making playoffs and the $ would rush in. AL west isn’t that impressive. Missed opportunity. Wouldn’t take a massive trade or mega contract. All you had to do was take on Bellinger contract. Give Santana or better yet Goldschmidt 14 15 million. Naylor Lowe didn’t take a lot to get. Or sign Justin Turner!!!!!!!!!!
I wish we could have a boycott like what Oakland did in their final years, we aren’t in their situation but it would still be nice
I couldn’t believe we couldn’t get Santana back or someone like Josh naylor it just makes me hate this club more
Seattle sports is a lot like Cleveland where it’s misery everywhere and a single championship for us is like a drop in the bucket for the dodgers
I wish we could have a boycott like what Oakland did in their final years,
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Oakland fans have been boycotting for over 30 years.
Casual fans will never stop attending because the product has the team in contention until the end of every regular season.
“Take on Bellinger contract”.. I don’t see Belli solving the offensive woes the M”s got. He’s consistently inconsistent.
I don’t see fading(faded)stars Goldy or Santana doing the trick either. Didn’t they just have Santana already in recent years?
Assuming the M’s don’t want a MEGA(albatross) contract on the books, they simply have to draft, develop and trade better.
Jerry Dipoto might have taken the M’s as far as he can and it may be time for new leadership and thinking.
The Dodgers/Yankees/Mets can add a Justin Turner type and benefit, because they’ll be surrounding him with all kinds of other + hitters.
The Mariners simply cannot do this and acquiring another Goldy/Santana type is simply putting a band-aid on a dam break.
The Mariners have the resources. They simply have to allocate, direct and develop them better and more efficiently.
The bad yields worse though. When the team sucks they wind up on smart players’ no-trade bylines. That’s what 40 years of bad baseball buy you. You have no choice but to gamble on longshot bets.
The Mariners will always stink. The hockey team stinks and, under the corporate ownership, the Seahawks will stink. Most teams are a new owner away from a turnaround but Seattle people are greedy.
M’s haven’t been bad recently. Just coming up a bit short. A couple Goldy Bellinger types could have made the difference. Both are projected to be high 700 low 800 ops. If you want 900 you have to give Soto a billion or trade away a ton for Tucker. You have to settle for whats realistically available.
Doesn’t matter. It’s not about actually winning. It’s getting your customers to believe you are trying and winning is possible.
Look how negative the M’s fans are. Vs Yankees fans who lost Soto. Who they bring in? Bellinger Goldy. Big names. Doesn’t matter they aren’t as good as they once was. You can’t replace Soto but you do the best you can. Yankees fans are feeling good, think they can win division. Think they can win world series. Paredes Walker ain’t Bregman Tucker. But fans appreciate they tried. Just make a effort.
2/3 owners don’t spend. Getting a new one garuntees nothing. It could be an even tight fisted owner.
I don’t think that would work tbh. Their ownership has a very corporate mindset. They would just reduce the budget. Maybe they’d eventually sell if they ran out room to lower the budget, but we see the owners of the Marlins, Rays, Pirates, White Sox, etc. hang around forever with the same mindset.
Like, why do you own a team if you’re going to operate it like the Pirates? There are easier billion dollar assets to manage if it’s just an ego trip.
Most owners in baseball are around for profit and don’t care about rings
Ownership is everything teams can go from frank mccourt to Guggenheim partners or wilpons to Steve cohen or stay bad like with the orioles and rubenstein
But few as profitable. On top of that, the average franchise increases in value about 12% every year.
YourDreamGM
All you had to do was take on Bellinger contract.
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In 2024, Belli had a 2.2 bWAR. JRod had a 4.3, Aro had a 1.0 in 199 ABs, and Robles had a 3.1 in 229 ABs. Their OF as a whole ranked #10th in OPS, which is pretty good considering the ballpark.
Their IF ranked #23 in OPS. That where you should start looking.
You wanna bet on Robles winning the MVP? You need 4 outfielders. A dh. Bellinger can play 1b. Betting on everyone staying healthy and as good as last year doesn’t seem like a good plan to me.
And I’m trying to sell tickets and tv packages. There’s room for growth.
Bellinger alone doesn’t do a ton for either but add a few other moves and fans are feeling good and team has a better chance at winning.
I’d bet Julio is better than last year, and will more than make up for any regression from Robles. Arozarena will be around all year too.
Bold
So Justin wants to stick that big fork they get after home runs in them.
Too bad they couldn’t bring JT back; Solano should be a better bat with more defensive flexibility though.
Yes, Dipoto is not at fault, it is ownership.
The bulk of the budget issues are not Dipoto’s fault. He has to play the cards he’s dealt. However, no one forced him to sign an unproven Evan White to that contract either. As a former pitcher, he allocated too high a percentage of resources on pitching development vs hitting. While highly successful at developing pitchers, woefully inadequate when it comes to hitters. The 54% comments illustrate his perspective and he placed too much value in an analytics department that delivered middling results for years. The Graveman for Toro trade was not necessary at the time and illustrates his massive disconnect from team chemistry and competitive valuations. If you think of a guy like Pete Carroll inspiring confidence, competitiveness and trust from his players, you can likewise imagine the opposite being true of Jerry Dipoto.
All fair points; however, I still think a personality and skillset like his is best for a situation like this; There are similar situations in PIttsburgh and Miami, and those FO execs haven’t proven to be wildly successful either.
As an Orioles fan, a lot of this sounds familiar, except what the Orioles have is a very productive young offense and their rotation hasn’t been a strength since the late 90s. They Frankensteined the rotation over the winter…a 41 year old guy, a 35 year old guy from Japan, and will come back with the 35 year old journeyman who had a season out of nowhere last year, a Jekyll and Hyde type (Kremer) and unproven youth whose ceilings didn’t go much above 4/5.
It seems that the Mariners have a young, talented, controllable pitcher to spare and the Orioles have someone like Mountcastle who has power, or Mayo/Kjerstad who they are unwilling to give a chance to who the Mariners could use. It would be a win/win. All winter on both Mariners and Orioles posts, this came up. It seems neither owner is interested in making that not-very-expensive step to fulfill obvious needs. Very disappointing.
Mountcastle isn’t a player the M’s fans have interest in. And the 4 young controllable starters are the only 4 pitchers on the team that are untouchable. Neither franchise is willing to trade the players the other team desires.
In breaking news, the Mariner’s owners today fired themselves. “The great fans in Seattle deserve a lot better than us as owners of this franchise,” they wrote in a prepared statement. “We hope new owners can be found who will care a lot more about winning than we ever did.”
BlueSkies_LA;
I love your posts, but you’re wrong here.
Plenty of teams can contend in MLB with lower budgets than the Mariners. They do it by having an influx of young players coming up from their farm system that can impact the team while playing for low salaries. So they trade out older players with high salaries to stay within their budget constraints.
Dipoto’s organization doesn’t do that. Every few years he does a radical tear-it-down and build-it-up – like incompetent / ineffective politicians do. He labeled the last one: “Reimagining”. Then what happens?…….
As soon as a few players have good years he signs them to exorbitant multiple-year contracts. He uses up his overall budget and leaves himself no flexibility. Within a few years many of those players are overpaid for the coming season. No one will trade anything of value for them because the players are locked into being overpaid for years. So the organization has painted itself into a corner. Inevitably Mariner fans post on here about the “cheap” ownership group.
The guy is one of the worst FO heads in MLB. But the fans love the transactions. Remember when the was making trades from his hospital bed? MLBTR loved it! Rotisserie League for real!! Unfortunately for Mariner fans MLB is not Rotisserie League. It’s a business. There is no draft entering every season.
Predictable cycles. LOL
DiPoto did one teardown. ONE. They were bad for 2 years, and have won 85-90 games the last 4 years. With money, he could have 3-4 straight playoffs.
He’s rebuilt a hitter-heavy top 5 farm in the meantime, so we’ll see how that adds to the foundation they graduated in the past 4 years.
Thanks. I’ve been wrong about a lot of things, but in this case, I don’t know what!
I am a JT fan for life now. A well respected, well traveled longtime MLB All Star holding the front office accountable in a very public way.
I love it.
Easier to do when it may be your final year and M’s ain’t going to ever sign you anyways.
Justin Turner is forgetting about the additions of Randy and Robles. Robles was once ranked higher than Juan Soto. Justin Turner is just parroting the negative nancies who love complaining..
He’s also forgetting that they traded for Justin Turner.
You actually think he has forgotten his own teammates from just months ago?
Of course he hasn’t.
He recognized–like most fans–that they had glaring holes at third, second, and DH, plus a need for a first base platoon bat and better bench options. They brought in exactly one new name. They lack depth, lack talent, and it’s not a new problem.
And then there are the bullpen questions.
This isn’t about complaining. It’s about recognizing the reality of the situation and responding fairly and rationally.
Turner wants good things for Seattle and its fans. You’re trying to turn that into something negative. It’s the opposite.
Maybe having Turner, Robles and Arozarena for a full season would be enough to get that extra win. They were at least willing to make some trades to improve last deadline.
Pete Alonso/Bregamn might not of had any intention/interest of signing with Seattle. They’re probably not on Arenados list of acceptable teams.
Good 3B were hard to come by this offseason. One signed for $30m aav and the other was traded for a top 5 player in the league. Would Urshela have been better? Or hope an injured HSK is healthy and has a bounce back year? Jump on the Jose Iglesias train? Obviously they expected to get someone better than Rojas but it doesn’t always work out
Jerry is either towing the company line here or he’s completely clueless (or both). There’s a reason that pretty much every major sports organization has graded this offseason as a D or an F for the M’s. I mean, the most impactful acquisition this winter was Kevin Seitzer as hitting coach. They couldn’t have topped Cody Poteet as the return in a Cody Bellinger trade? Or Echedry Vargas, Max Acosta, and Brayan Mendoza for Jake Burger? He talked about how he’s been pushing draft/develop/trade for a decade; that’s led to ONE playoff appearance in that period, and based on just pure random luck, the Mariners should have been in the playoffs at least 3 times. Dipoto’s overall resume as a GM (both in Seattle and Anaheim) is flat out unimpressive and he should simply not say anything anymore lest 98% of us not “get him” (yet another stupid statement). And while the ballpark is certainly a factor in hitters choosing not to sign with Seattle, I think that Turner’s comments show that many players simply feel that Mariners ownership has no desire to spend on a winner and would be on an island if they came here. It’s a top-down problem that won’t get better anytime soon, given that next year’s free agent class is top-heavy with pitchers as opposed to hitters.
Jody Allen, PLEASE BUY THE TEAM!
There’s no such thing as Jody Allen. She’s a person but Paul’s assets are managed for profit now. The Mariners are a spreadsheet formula. Profit happens despite sub-mediocre talent. Why mess with success, Mariners ownership cracked the code.
1. as far as acquiring a big bat- it takes 2 to tango. 2. every team has complainers. look at NYY- Dj is the story now, and “if he cant play, who’s gonna play 3b…”. 3. “go out and spend the money, get Pete…”. sounds good, when it not your money. 4. we could be Marlin or Rockie fans?
Doesn’t take 2. Bellinger Lowe Naylor had no say in where they were going. If those players fetched some awesome return I get it. But they didn’t. M’s weren’t even mentioned were they? I don’t remember them being close to anything other than their dumpster dives.
Bellinger isn’t close to being the answer for the M’s. I’m not a fan, and I’m guessing Dipoto isn’t either. That’s a bad contract that most teams want nothing to do with.
What AZ gave up for Naylor was a good return for him. I don’t blame Dipoto for not offering more than that for one year of Naylor.
Bellinger has a perfect swing for Yankee Stadium. Guy will rake in the Bronx.
AZ didn’t give up anything. A pitcher they couldn’t develop and a draft pick unlikely to hit. Will get a much better draft pick when they qualifying offer Naylor. Hopefully.
It’s not about winning. You’d like to. It’s increasing $.
Perfect fit NYY. Cubs ate 5m. And in NY $ that contract isn’t as bad.
Dipoto has skills in tearing a bad team down and bringing them back to okay. The farm system, which last I checked doesn’t get to compete for the World Series, is now good. But he doesn’t have any clue on how to win a championship. This year, world series or bust, my friend.
It’s bust, Zippy. They’re relying on too many hitters having comeback seasons (Crawford, Arozarena, Polanco, Garver) and still having basically a zero at 2B (Moore will do well for about 2 weeks and then crater… as is tradition).
Zoinks, Zoinks, I fear you are correct.
To be fair, ownership mislead him as well. He made many semi-definitive statements (promises) and he’s had to walk back.
I can appreciate his transparency. I think most fans think he doesn’t hear them or empathize with their frustration. He most certainly does. My problem with him has been his defense of ownership. They threw him under the bus and he made excuses for them that weren’t even necessary. Perhaps the most annoying excuse was suggesting that the free agent class a few years ago wasn’t actually that good (2022-2023 offseason)..
I still question his ability to develop hitters. He seems to be banking on getting help internally. I have reservations.
I’m not suggesting that the M’s don’t need to invest in players, but former and current players may not be the best(or neutral) sources for how, why and how much money teams spend.
They have a built-in bias to encourage teams to recklessly spend money whether it helps the team or not.
That being said, it’s baffling how years(if not decades)go by and the M’s are still looking for “one more good hitter” and can’t find him in the draft, trades nor free agency.
No one is asking them to spend recklessly. Just to spend enough to improve the team so they can avoid wasting this window with this incredible rotation. Putting at 15M limit on increased spending is insane. There were plenty of affordable players out there they had chances at who were better than old man solano and polanco. The fact that Haniger is still on the team is disgraceful
If no one is going to name and shame him, I will: The owner of the Mariners is John Stanton. I’m surprised his name wasn’t brought up,
Even JT didn’t use his name and understood that DiPoto has his hands tied.
The question is who they trading Castillo to this year?
He can be found sailing the seas on his brand spanking new mega yacht he calls “The Supremacy”. It’s loaded with all the newest bells and whistles. It even has an Iron Dome defense system in case he’s ever approached by free agent hitters or their agencies.
Goes with the job. Being a GM means you take it on the chin.
Fan’s anger should be directed towards the owner.
It’s the same thing on the North side with Hoyer. “Rickets is just trying to break even”.
Unfortunately seems like majority of baseball owners are going this route. As a Cardinal fan they’re headed this way. Majority of NL Central is like this. Owners just keeping the profits and not reinvesting back into team. Really only a handful of teams really spend and they are in the major markets
There is a reason for that, which is why the next work stoppage will be a long one. Major markets vs. the other 20-25.
I agree, but in addition to that, teams seem to be valuing their prospects more than ever before. The M’s don’t want to trade their young pitchers for hitting, just like the O’s don’t want to trade their young position guys for pitching. It’s understandable financially, since, if the young guys turn into stars, they’re cheap for the production they provide.
If you knew that the difference between spending $100 million or $180 million was absolutely nothing because the Dodgers and Mets will just spend $400 million…
Would you spend $100 million or would you spend $180 million?
MLB has no interest in Seattle winning when NY or LA winning will bring 5 times the ratings, merch sales, etc.
Ok well if your conspiracy theory is true then it’s worked cause I’d much rather be a Dodger fan than a Mariners fan. #MucktheFariners
Some of these owners paid ridiculous amounts for their teams after the last wave of owners saw valuations 10 fold. Its always seemed like a bubble to me
@Dock_Elvis Why would there be a bubble when there remains high demand for MLB team ownership? Liberty Media which owns the Braves has their books open for the franchise. It’s not like prospective buyers are not doing their due diligence before laying out $1B+ for a purchase. Forbes had the O’s valuation at $1.725B before David Rubenstein purchased them for the exact same cost.
Good job Justin! We’re gonna miss you here in Seattle!!!
Hmm. You all understand this is a business. Run to be profitable. A mid major market team like the Mariners operate within spending parameters…you all act like spending equals winning. Sure it helps. But baseball has more parity than the NFL. You don’t have to be desperate and go after aging free agents to win. The mariners have been close and it’s their performance on the field that defines making the playoffs. See their record in one-run games last year vs. their playoff year.
Bottom line- if they didn’t strikeout and leave runners on base. If there bullpen wasn’t weak, they would have made the playoffs.
It’s more than just money. Been a lifelong Mariners fan and we are never going to get high end free agents. More so, spending money doesn’t always equal winning. It’s an organizational choice to draft and develop and you all think the Goldschmidts and Alonzo’s of the world will save us.
The team makes 70-75 million a year in profit while increasing in value 12% annually. Pretty nice for a team dedicated to on-field mediocrity. It doesn’t have to be this way, they could easily sport a 200 million payroll . Yes, that extra 50 million would get them the extra 5 wins they need to play deep into October.
The Mariners did sign Robinson Cano once upon a time so they have played in the high end free agent market in the past. They just chose the wrong guy, character wise.
The M’s were a major bat from probabky making a World Series run for the first time. That’s worth something. Not just trying to back in.
The Mariners are NOT a mid-major market. They control the rights to all of Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Alaska and half the Pacific Rim.
As Mariners, they control the seas as well.
The Mariners’ owners are running the team more like a business focused on making money than a sports team focused on winning championships.
And that’s why their fans need to pinch them in the wallet.
Imagine being a Pirates fan, very similar situation except half the payroll.
Stop the madness. The Mariners do not have great fans, and I’m one of them for 40 years. They don’t know the game and don’t support the team. They sell their tickets to anyone- any fan base can waltz in and dominate the stadium. The ones that do attend, perform the wave while the home team bats in the 8th inning. And then they wonder why the team can’t hit.
If you actually watched the team, then it was obvious that fielding, base running, and the bullpen cost 2024 Mariners 10+ wins. If you have elite starting pitching, but you can’t convert the soft contact into outs, you might as well have mediocre pitching. If you have a bad bullpen, it doesn’t matter how good your starters are.
Instead of chasing hitters, they should have elite contact, elite defense, and elite base running to pair with elite starting pitching- then they would have an elite home field advantage. Luckily, injuries and regression hampered the bullpen and I don’t expect that again. This team should be built like the 2015 Royals and all those SF champions. And until we stop selling our tickets and doing the wave WHILE WE HIT, then the fans should shut up.
Sell the team Stanton. After these comments by a current active player, this team will never be able to lure any players in the future, that are decent MLB talent players…hell, they really can’t even do that now before Turner’s comments. This franchise is doomed.
There’s plenty of reasons a free agent would or wouldn’t sign with Seattle, but to give Justin Turner that much authority is melodramatic and stupid.
When there’s somke, there’s fire. And there is a LOT of smoke with the Ms. Turner didn’t need to be given authority, he’s just the first one to publicly speak out about the dumpster fire this team ownership is.
Mariners fans are fairweather if they think these comments from an old Dodger justifies their complaints.
Sure, the Mariner’s fairly have under performed expectations. This wasn’t for lack of additions. as previous seasons they’ve made numerous deals which could’ve pushed them over the limit into the playoffs. However, they didn’t. The team re-evaluated and moved off from the manager and coaches. There was clearly some traction after this adjustment specifically from the offense in the areas they were struggling to improve.
Alone the adjustments to the hitting are enough to be a playoff team if all else holds up. Add in individual improvements from a litany of hitters, these two will have cumulative effect which boosts offensive production.
These will be much more effective than overspending on Alonso. The team has managed their budget and improved the team. And yet fans aren’t happy? Take into consideration as well the Astros are worse, the Rangers are a year older, and the A’s and Angels aren’t even close. The Mariners have got one year wiser and fixed up their weaknesses.
So the Rangers are one year older, yet the Mariners are just a year wiser? I don’t know why you’d expect improvements from a litany of hitters. Only three players from the starting nine are under 30 and the bench doesn’t hold much upside.
It isn’t literal. It highlights the Rangers core position players aren’t spring chickens and the age curve isn’t peak as it was previously.
The Mariner’s best players and most of their core are within 27-31 years old. Their best hitter hasn’t even reached his prime, so he definitely benefits from another year.
As for the concept of regression, the Mariners’ terrible ’24 is due for some positive regression towards the mean. Hence improvements, generally.
The Rangers have five expected starters under 30, the Mariners have three.
Of course the Mariners have a fantastic young rotation but this whole article is about the fact that they did nothing to improve the lineup, and you are downplaying that very valid criticism.
Mariners fans have a reason to be disappointed with a team barely missing the playoffs just running it back out and hoping for positive regression only.
Mariner’s players hit at the top of the lineup. Ranger’s at the bottom…
The criticism is ignorant. It misses the realities of the Seattle franchise’s situation. Mariner fans listening to this spoiled Turner are being led into delusions of free agents. It’s not a fair situation, but this offseason is hardly an issue. Especially if you consider the future when they let all those pitchers walk or they sell high before they lose arbitration.
The team only has positive regression and player improvement and the new better manager/coaches. If you are asking for more, you are being greedy in a mid market.
It’s an interesting part of the economics of MLB. It’s not necessary, except for the highest revenue teams, to attempt to compete year, year out, to be profitable. If they can hold the line on spending, there’s more than ample cash. Sign a free agent for $20M, and that cash is gone–right out of the owner’s pocket.
The core that has led to 4 straight winning seasons is still intact. Plus they’re going to get full seasons out of Randy, Robles and Polanco.
The Seattle Mariners could win it all.
The M’s park is part of the problem. It’s quite possible that Dipoto has made competitive offers to hitters that don’t want to play there. T-Mobile is worst than Oracle for hitting, and J.D. Martinez rejected an offer from the Giants last season saying, he wasn’t going to play there.
I appreciate Justin Turner sharing what our Mariners players feel and most likely, would like to say publicly as well. Jerry Dipoto does sound like he feels it is a little unfair that everything he says is scrutinized, but he has put his foot in his mouth a few times, trying to protect ownership in my opinion. He could be better in front of the microphone at times. He says that most free agents were not a good match this year, well it seems like that very year, come on, but going the trade route, I don’t see how they could not have offered more to get Josh Naylor, shocked by what the Guardians received for him. The Mariners could have offered more than that and I wonder how many trade opportunities were missed in this offseason and that is on Jerry. That being said, our owner, John Stanton, is a coward. He sets the budget, he makes these financial decisions, or lack there of, and he needs to answer some questions, He owes that to the fanbase and perhaps more importantly to the players on tis team. If you are not going to sell the team then at least be a stand up person and answer some questions about what your goals are for this franchise and why you are going about things the way you are.
I was miffed that we couldn’t beat the Diamondbacks offer for Naylor, but Cleveland has their own pitching factory and sometimes teams just like a certain player more than others. Woo to Miller for Naylor would have been a massive overpay. Hancock might not have tickled their fancy, and that is pretty much the list of MLB adjacent young starters in our organization.
Arizona’s compensation pick was number 70. That’s what Cleveland was after. Seattle’s is 35. Sure, Seattle could have beat Arizona, but their pick has a much, much higher value, and then there’s the 10.9m salary for a lefty-hitting, defensively-limited player.
Naylor never made sense for Seattle.
And Hancock is far more valuable to Seattle than most other teams. He’s their sixth starter and they don’t have much starter depth.. He was never likely a part of trade discussions.
So they give 12 million for what is mostly a weak side platoon bat in Santana. He has hit over a .680 ops just once (.727 in 2023) in the last 5 years. The Guards are loaded with guys who kill lhp — Jose, Thomas, Fry, Noel, Johnathan Rodriguez — and virtually no-one who hits rhp. Strange move. Justin Turner at least had pretty even splits in his career.
Correct that, Justin Turner has EXACTLY even splits .821/.821 which is pretty amazing over 6000 PAs. It’s the one sure fire sign a right hand hitter will have a strong career, his ability to hit RHP.
Didn’t the mariners have a lead in the division and had to play catch up after losses one year or two? A lineup shakeup or trade would have helped, imo. Turner is going to have a field day with the cubs gm & ownership.
The Mariners have a strong farm system and top 10 prospect base of trade candidates to work from. This great farm system couldn’t trade prospects for one truly legit team controlled bat. I find that hard to believe.
Trading from the farm system is the secondary option. Prospects had diminished value this offseason and Seattle needs help in the middle infielder and have a half dozen top 100 prospects almost ready to contribute there. So you get 1-year placeholders.
Word is only the Marlins and White Sox were interested in prospects, but they have nobody. Arenado could’ve been a possibility, but his NTC takes that option off the table.
The trade deadline could be different, and they’d only be responsible for 2 months salary.
The article title threw me off a little bit. I was like Justin Turner is on the Cubs why is he talking about the state of one of his former teams
I’m guessing because he was asked about it.
As a 30+ year Mariners fan, it frustrates me that so many of my fellow fans don’t realize that the vast majority of criticism directed towards Dipoto should instead go to Stanton and ownership.
M’s fans love to handwave away the core team that Dipoto and the FO built through draft and signings. After decades of Woodward, Bavasi, and Zduriencik, I’m still insanely thankful we have Dipoto running this ship.
We just need new ownership that’ll give him more resources to work with!
Their 3.49 earned run average was tied with Atlanta for best in the league. The starting staff’s 3.38 ERA was best in the majors.
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That’s kind of misleading. Seattle if a huge pitcher’s park, so their ERA will always look good.
But their ERA+ was only 106, tied for 9th (thru 14th). Their road ERA was ranked 18th.
The pitching staff isn’t what it is made out to be.
Either are you, Joe.
Support for my Mariner bros from an A’s fan who knows what it’s like to not spend when you’re almost there…
That’s wild. Alex Bregman and Pete Alonso were the only two real fits in Seattle positionally and in terms of an impact bat. But you aren’t coming to Seattle on a short term deal hoping to build value, and 30 teams including the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees weren’t willing to give them long term contracts for a reason. Seattles plan this offseason was to allow what they have to develop and short term plugging holes until their crop of hitters starts graduating to the majors.
Yeah, whatever it took to get Alonso to Seattle would’ve been an absolutely terrible contract.
Sell the team, John. You don’t want to win, and we want to win.
Dipoto is not the problem: he just enables it by working within its constraints. Stanton is the problem. Spending big on a superstar like Alonso for 2 years is not a team-crippling move. It’s a two year contract. A team can recover if it goes wrong.
You’re supposed to try.
Dear: Mr. Dipoto. Please stop being a Dip and stop trying to build a perennial champion-caliber team before the good-pitching window closes. Just one “great” season very soon will be great. That means you will need to trade a couple of your starting pitchers since ownership isn’t willing to spend. Mariners can’t be like the Astros, which had/have consistently great hitters year after year. Mariners have no consistently great hitter, including J-Rod.
Turner isn’t wrong, though probably speaking out of turn commenting on another team’s moves.
The M’s may not have spent big but in the next couple of seasons you may see Tyler Locklear, Brock Rodden, Michael Arroyo, Jared Sundstrom and Lazaro Montes contribute to the big club
Why not JD Martinez for Seattle? A .893 ops in 2023 and statcast indicates he wasn’t that far off his game last year after a late start. Maybe he will sign for cheap. A better DH option than Haniger.
Plus I’m still looking for Brandon Belt!!!