February 12: Horwitz’s surgery was to address “chronic symptoms,” the Pirates announced (as relayed by Hiles). The expected timeline for recovery is six to eight weeks, confirming that Horwitz will miss at least some time to start the season.
February 11: Pirates first baseman Spencer Horwitz will miss time in Spring Training because of a right wrist injury, report Andrew Destin and Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. While specifics on the injury are unclear, Destin and Hiles write that Horwitz underwent surgery at some point and remains in a cast.
It’s an alarming start for the Bucs as camp gets underway. Pittsburgh acquired the 27-year-old Horwitz at the Winter Meetings in what amounted to a de facto three-team trade involving the Blue Jays and Guardians. They sent back-end starter Luis Ortiz and a pair of pitching prospects to Cleveland for Horwitz, whom the Guards had acquired from Toronto hours before in the Andrés Giménez deal.
Without a timetable on the injury, it’s possible he’ll still be available on Opening Day. Yet it’s clearly not an ideal beginning to his Bucs tenure. Horwitz is the favorite for the first base job once he’s healthy. The Pirates are betting on his minor league numbers and relatively small-sample production in the big leagues. Horwitz had an impressive .265/.357/.433 showing across 381 MLB plate appearances last year. He connected on 12 homers while showing strong strike zone awareness. The lefty hitter walked at an 11% clip while striking out just 18.4% of the time.
Plate discipline has been Horwitz’s calling card throughout his career. He has posted excellent minor league numbers, including a .316/.433/.471 slash over parts of three Triple-A seasons. The statistical profile is robust, but most scouting reports have been less bullish on Horwitz’s bat translating against big league pitching over the long haul. He’s a middling defender who fits best at first base, though he logged nearly 300 innings at second base for Toronto last season. There’s a lot of pressure on the bat if he’s to be an average or better regular at first base. Horwitz doesn’t have huge raw power. Last year’s 16 combined homers between Triple-A and MLB represented a career high.
Pittsburgh got very little offense from the position last season. Their first basemen hit .230/.295/.380, landing in the bottom third of MLB in all three categories. That was almost entirely on the Rowdy Tellez/Connor Joe platoon. The Bucs parted ways with both players. Aside from Horwitz, they haven’t made any notable additions there.
Should Horwitz begin the season on the injured list, 26-year-old Billy Cook is probably the top in-house option. He hit .224 with 19 strikeouts and zero walks in his first 16 major league games late last season. The righty-hitting Cook posted a solid .275/.375/.474 showing in the upper minors between the Baltimore and Pittsburgh systems. Baseball America ranked Cook the #12 prospect in the Bucs system this winter, writing that he has decent power and athleticism but concerns about his pure hitting ability.
The Pirates already planned to get Bryan Reynolds work at first base this spring. That could take on added urgency now, though it’s unlikely that the Bucs would move him to the position on an everyday basis. Pittsburgh got almost nothing out of their right fielders last season. They’ve agreed to terms with Tommy Pham on a $4MM deal to raise the floor at that position, but the outfield would again become a significant concern if Reynolds moved to first base.
There are a few unsigned first basemen who are still available. Justin Turner and Anthony Rizzo seem likely to secure big league deals. Mark Canha might get an MLB contract as well, while Yuli Gurriel and José Abreu are potential minor league options. Whether the Bucs expect Horwitz to miss time in the regular season could impact their decision to potentially bring in a veteran on at least a minor league contract. Former Phillies first baseman Darick Hall will be in camp as a non-roster invitee. Tomorrow is report day for pitchers and catchers, so the team may provide an update on Horwitz’s injury in the coming days.
I forgot this guy is on Pittsburgh…
Our biggest acquisition of the off-season, sadly.
Horwitz is better than you seem to think. If he can stay healthy, he’s got the potential to be a .280/.360 guy with 20hr pop over a full season..
Sadly, Horwitz’s not going to have any pop right after wrist surgery, though. Usually takes several months to build the strength back up, since flailing a bat is about the worst thing you can do during recovery.
The Ortiz for Horwitz trade looks worse and worse
Both Ortiz and Horwitz are under team control for a bunch of years, Ortiz still has 2 years of pre-arbitration, while Spencer has 3 before arbitration.
That trade wasn’t made for the first 2 months of this year. In the long run, Horwitz is still a solid get.
The belief, at least according to the Blue Jays broadcasters/reporters, was that with Spencer’s bat control and strike-zone awareness, he has a very solid offensive floor, and with a mild change to his approach, more power was still in there. He had already made some improvements during last season. He’ll never be Pete Alonso, but a 25-30 homer season seems reachable for him (even if not this year due to the wrist recovery).
Big picture, there’s a decent chance he’ll be a solid 1st bagger for the Pirates for years to come, so don’t get too down on things.
You need more than a potential 20 home runs from your first baseman.
But this is the Pirates…
There’s a lot of different ways to generate offense. Old school thinking says each position has to hit a certain way, but reality is you need a certain amount of offense across the team, and that offense can come from anywhere, in any form, as long as runs get put on the board. A first basemen who hits 25 homers and 50 doubles with a good walk rate is still a highly valuable hitter.
Yes, high floor. This guy is a piece – a potentially effective one – but not the straw that stirs. DK is reporting the Bucs are working on a big trade (I’m dreaming Bleday or Robert).
Need a lot less than 25 hrs and 50 doubles to be productive.
20 hrs and 40 doubles very likely puts you 15% above average.
owned by a billionare who does business like a paperboy.
Not as bad as the Horwitz for Gimenez
Oh stop. He is a replacement level player at best.
You need more than a potential 20 home runs from your first baseman.
=====================
With a good OBP, it’s ‘okay’ especially if they can play I’d be more concerned that they are running out of options for Davis. The Pirates are burying the guy.
DK is reporting the Bucs are working on a big trade (I’m dreaming Bleday or Robert).
====================
Hoping for Mayer/Chandler.
Bucsfan0004
Don’t they give these guys physicals before making a trade?
Why would you trade for a guy that needs an operation?
I keep thinking Cherington can’t become more incompetent and he surprises me.
Says who? You need decent defense and a productive bat.
Sure, but they are already carrying a third baseman in KeBryan Hayes that has regressed offensively since signing his long-term deal and have other instances of what may be charitably called lineup holes. Is Henry Davis ever going to hit?
Probably Paul Skenes for bonus pool money from the Dodgers
Not if you’re Cleveland!
Based on about 400 abs? He could be another bust.
Don’t think he has power beyond what we’ve seen. He never has. I like that Pirates got him, but not at first base.
I immediately thought the same thing. If it’s “chronic” why did it not show up on a physical? And if they did know about it, why not get surgery in December?
Consistently maddening.
BC stated in an interview this was a new injury that occurred after the trade.
For some reason i see Ortiz as a sub 3.5 ERA guy for Cleveland averaging 10Ks/9 and our man Horwitz struggling to keep a .700 OPS, especially after a wrist injury.
Idk why people are so high on Ortiz.
He’s definitely not a high-K guy and was more of a 5 inning spot starter type
I think he’ll improve , but his ceiling is still pretty low for me
this is one of the most insane string of comments i’ve ever seen.
claiming 25 hrs with 50 doubles is *still* a valuable hitter.
exactly zero hitters reached 50 doubles last season.
a 25 hr/50 double hitter would be one of the most productive players in the league.
Pirates got a really good player and don’t even know it..
The sudden wrist surgery is concerning though.
Overall, high OBP around Cruz and Reynolds is going to be key.
Get Horo, IKF, Nicky G on base, and see what happens.
If Suwinski & Cruz can bring some power, there’s some hope for the lineup.
Kebryan Hayes is another X-factor who could determine a lot about the depth of the lineup
Again, I applaud you on the rose colored glasses
Hayes is the biggest bust to come down the pike in decades. Great glove. So is Alika Williams. Had one good half season at bat. Wishes to look like Mister Cool out there but perhaps he should’ve put more time in batting refinement.
And Horwitz? They got him at bargain basement price and in a year, you’ll have forgotten all about him
You’re actually stupid.
It’s OK tho
And you’re consistently wrong. About the Pirates. About the Steelers
It’s ok, though. I’ll remind your fanboy carcass in September. Again. Moron
I’d say getting rid of Chapman was the best move but that still leaves a big old hole at 1B Thats been there for a decade & continue to ignore lol
Riding dune buggies with Fernando Tatis ???
No, he was practicing archery with Fernando Rodney.
And now I’m hearing Fernando by ABBA in my head.
There was something in the air that night…
Popping wheelies with Jeff Kent!
Sneezed with Sammy Sosa?
Shoot me. We haven’t had a legit 1b since Willie, and that was years before I was born
Jason Thompson, Kevin Young, Sid Bream, Josh Bell?
Nah, I tried. You are correct Pops was the last legitimate 1b to suit up for the Pirates.
Adam laRoche maybe? A pirate 2 and a half seasons from 07 to 09 trade deadline. Even then, nah, I see what you guys are saying. Kind of sad…
And hey at least Kevin young’s 98′ and 99′ seasons were great, especially 99′ putting up 5.6 baseball reference WAR. But he fell off super hard after that. Again, very very sad…
KY spent a year in KC’s system after 3 poor seasons in Pittsburgh and returned to the Pirates a completely different player. His ’97 season was really good too, especially since he only appeared in 97 games.
2023 Carlos Santana
KY was good. Ike Gabby passable. Garrett Jones.
Rowdy was great for 2 months. Morneau for a month. Nogo freaking awesome for 1 week.
When you stink you don’t need a 1b or a ss or catcher or cf …… And other than 6 years in last 45 they stink.
except that Morneau was obtained because of his power and never hit a homer and only drove in 3 runs as a Pirate
Hadn’t hit 20 or more hrs in 4 years so I very highly doubt they got him for his power.
he still didn’t hit any as a Buc.
Even worthless
DLC hit a few after coming over from Miami
Bob Robertson, For sure Don Clendenon! I had bb card with Stargell and Clendenon together. Buc bombers or something like.
Carries a good bat. Hope the wrist doesn’t affect this.
Turner is out of their price range. Sign Rizzo. Him and Cutch can tag-team and lead.
Carpenter would be a great fit for them as well. He’s a better hitter than Rizzo and more likely to embrace a bench role when Horwitz is healthy.
Rizzo would probably retire rather than sign with the Pirates
This is a great opportunity for Billy Cook, although signing Jose Abreu to a camp invite to compete could be interesting insurance
a paycheck isn’t important enough for Rizzo to sign with the Bucs?
What are they gonna offer him? 2 mil?
Either way, Spencer is only out a month, makes more sense to pay (what 80k?) for a camp invite-type vet, than to spend millions on a guy like Rizzo who really has no place in the lineup once Horwitz comes back, and hasn’t even hit well the past 2 years to justify squeezing him in.
If they’re gonna drop a couple mil, much rather see that end up in the pen
who says he stays healthy all season after having wrist surgery ?
They need a backup plan and expecting Billy Cook to successfully play first base is living in fantasyland
Rizzo is not a backup plan. He’s gonna need at least 6 mil.
As the article states Reynolds would play 1B with Cook in the OF
Cherington yesterday said that Reynolds wasn’t going to play at first and neither was Endy
Cook is the current backup plan
Interesting
Would’ve thought that would’ve been a great opportunity for Reynolds to get some work at 1B before his likely permanent move there in 26
I wouldn’t call his acquisition “a de facto three-team trade.” Pittsburgh didn’t send anything to Toronto.
Not everyone needs to trade and recieve pieces to make it a three team trade
It’s defacto three team because Toronto sent something to Pittsburgh, just through cleve
The pain never stops.
If he put up a 127 wRC+ with a wrist injury, I think he’ll be fine after the surgery.
Hopefully it doesn’t destroy his career.
Smart easy move would be sign Rizzo.
4d chess move move Reynolds to 1b sign Verdugo to play LF or Canha Pillar.
Pirates move move Reynolds to 1b and #JackIsBack LF. Sign no one. I mean Grichuk was probably a free agent still when Horowitz had surgery.
Cherington told 93.7 the fan today that Reynolds is moving to right field so Phamm can play left field, and Reynolds won’t be playing at first base at all.
He also indicated that he probably won’t be looking outside the organization for a backup first baseman
Must have got a huge extension. Why he doesn’t care why he didn’t get fired.
May be thinking to teach Bart how to play first base and let Endy catch against lefthanders.
Or maybe Davis at first so they can play him at every position.
the first baseman is historically a power hitter
I don’t see any of these options fitting the description.
Davis is lucky to make contact with the bat
Try Henry Davis at 1st? Otherwise, he’ll be in AAA. Clearly a FA isn’t an option, or you’re following the wrong team. We’ll see a waiver wire at some point come through.
pantherfan73
Try Henry Davis at 1st?
===========================
I don’t follow the Pirates, but i am always intrigued by failed prospects (1970s Raiders fan). What are the Pirates’ plans for Davis? Is he out at catcher? Can he play anywhere else?
Can he hit? He’s hit well in the minors, but not consistently. in his first trip thru AAA, he performed very well, albeit in small # of ABs. In his second pass in AAA, not so very much.
Unless they trade catchers he probably moves position and be third catcher. If he starts hitting MLB pitches of course.
Probably OF to take advantage of his arm but anywhere if he hits.
Joew
Davis in OF was hard to watch last time.
Don’t expect it to be any better this time especially since they didn’t play him there all last year.
@pan yeah it was, keeping in mind he is still fairly new at it while still working on his catching. If they put him full time at another position he would pick it up. Maybe not well but probably passable
You’re asking a lot of questions that still need to be answered. Even the Pirates don’t know the answers yet.
He’s a bat first catch even when they drafted him. He’s hit very well in the minors but hasn’t produced at the major league level…yet. With the breakout of Joey Bart last year and the presence of their other top prospect catcher Endy Rodríguez, I would imagine he will be playing elsewhere this year. He was predominantly used in RF his rookie season so a move to the OF could happen. He hasn’t played 1B professionally yet. I think he’s hitting will improve once he finds a position in the field.
I would say it’s still early to call him a “failed prospect. He only has 329 career at-bats. I mean look at Joey Bart. He was a 2nd overall pick and just last season had his first good season in the bigs and that was after the Giants gave up on him.
correction
the Pirates don’t know anything
Joe- Thanks to the Red Sox forCherington,but the truth is he absolutely has no clue with Davis.
They needed a catcher when they drafted him,and he was under slot and they later drafted Bubba Chandler because they had the money for him.
They gave him a glove two years ago,and like many other players,stuck him in right field after never having played there,
He hit well in AAA and was a fine hitter in college.
The Pirates brilliance came through once again in 2024 when they told Henry,hey,we made a mistake,you ARE going to be a ML catcher this year.Good luck,and by the way,learn all of your Ml pitchers in Spring Training.
He has the perfect arm for right field.Where did he play last year in AAA-catcher.
Can he concentrate on hitting if he is an outfielder- yes.
At catcher-no.
Do they need him to catch with Bart and Endy-no
Would he have good potential as a DH-yes.
But they resigned the 37 year oldMcCutcheon to hit there.
Why did Horowitz wait until recently to get a wrist operation?
This tells you all that you need to know about the Pirates.
@mendoza
Yeah. If he was hitting anywhere close to his AAA numbers he is good enough at catcher. They cannot carry someone who is subpar defense and not hitting. even more so now when you have Bart and Delay with Endy coming around again.
Davis is great to have as a 3rd catcher but that rarely happens so who cares 😉
It’s not a major concern. They have plenty of options at first base, including Endy, Jared Triolo, Billy Cook, Isiah, Darick Hall, and Munez. They could also explore a position shift with players like Hayes, Palacios, Davis, Jack Suwinski, or Jack Brannigan—Reynolds could even be in the mix if needed. Derek Shelton even has some experience at first.
Yes it is a major concern because other than Endy, NONE of those players can hit.
It’s not a concern because they’re not putting a competing team on the field as clearly seen with the rest of the holes in the lineup. It doesn’t matter if the first baseman can or can’t hit. They just need to show up for 162 days. That’s what the off season told us.
كوتشر – The Bucs made a $68M net profit for the last reported season (2023) which is quite clear they are more interested in making money than winning.
At the very least, revenue sharing recipient teams should be required to return some of that shared revenue if they make a profit.
@fever the report was for operating income which is not profit. It does take into account most operating expenses but from my limited experience usually doesn’t include other expenses.
Teams are required to spend 1.5x the amount received from the sharing. They seem to give leeway for those who are pretty clearly tearing it all down but after a while real penalties can happen. I believe it goes as far as denial of sharing and loss of draft picks but I could be making that part up.
They’re not in the poor house by any means, they can certainly afford to do more but the Owners are more business people staying out of the red is more important than Wins. If for some reason the Pirates lose revenue sharing they are in the red. If I were the owners group looking from a business angle I’d probably do the same.
Endy.and his bat are as much of a question mark as Davis.
@ron Endy, Cook and Hall have very little mlb time so harder to make a determination on their MLB hitting, they had some good success in the minors though.
Triolo and IKF are gold glove caliber defense that are a net positive. how well that translates to 1b is unknown but worth trying.
I would love to see IKF on first for at least a few innings at first just for the neet-o factor. He has played the other 8 positions during his MLB Career.
Agreed. Getting someone who wants to play fulltime, and get paid as a full time player, because Horowitz is gonna miss a couple weeks is a ridiculous idea.
Bob Nutting himself has joined us
Your comment is now worth Nutting.
Bob has left the building.
PNC made for left handed batters. Line up pretty right handed to me. Great leadership and vision running the show
Lonnie Chisenhall 2.0
Love the Jose Abreu suggestion.
Agreed. Give him a minor league deal with a May opt-out
I think Billy Cook can likely handle the role, but it’s worth it to see if Abreu can get back to anything close to what he was on a risk-free deal
Doesn’t hurt to have that extra depth in camp incase another injury pops up too.
Extra depth? That’s hilarious.
They have such little talent here that you’d wonder just who should be called “depth”
Depth is great. 40 man loaded with average meh players. IKF gets hurt who cares Peguero just as meh. Gonzales gets hurt got less bat more glove Triolo. He gets hurt he’s so unexciting Yorke can’t be much worse can he? At least as good as washed up Frazier. Endy can’t hit gets hurt you got Davis and Delay who can’t hit. Pham ain’t much better than Palacios. Cook Suwinski need a look. Pretty much as long as Cruz Reynolds Bart doesn’t get hurt it doesn’t really matter. Those are only 3 who could make a all star game and only 1 of them has. Just a team full of just guys.
Yes!!!!!
Might as well buy a bigger van for the shuttle to Indy and run it daily
This entire roster is average at best. At best
They have one player: Reynolds
Just not enamored with exit velocities and throwing velocities until Cruz proves he can refine his basic mechanics
70-72 wins.
Cruz already better than anyone not named Reynolds will ever be. I have Cruz better than Reynolds as he can play cf and be placed at ss.
Skenes is average at best?
Cruz is a pure athlete. Hopefully, he’ll grow up and get out of his own way.
He’s proven nothing defensively yet.
And as a hitter, he’s got a ways to go
His plate discipline is awful and he doesn’t hustle.
Again, maybe he’ll mature and evolve
Reynolds is no superstar, but he’s consistent
He won’t dog it and while he’s not a gold glover, he’s not going to lose you games by being a bonehead
Watch some games and get back to us
I like Cruz and his potential.
I liked Poloanco, too
Gee, Scott. You must be new here
Let me break it down again
Skenes is a generational talent
It’s great we’ll get to see him here for awhile
Put Skenes on the Pirates 35 years ago or more and I see a big change in the team’s fortunes
Now, in the era of 5-6 inning starts, not so much.
I like Skenes. And Jones. And Keller
The Pirates only had to build around their pitchers this off season
A couple stronger bats
A middle relief pitcher or two
They did nothing.
Skenes is a generational talent on a team of average talent, at best. At best
Scott is just restarted. Can’t figure out we were talking about hitters and hitters only.
Now I fully realize your definition of a rebuild.
Get rid of all of the old players and try to achieve a 500 team.
That is an admirable goal for this team.
Mr Bueno-You seem to have at least some hope that Cruz will change.
Who on the Pirates will guide him to do so?
If Cutch has not guided him who else would?
He was lucky that he had Taylor last year to help him to learn how to play centerfield.
Win percentage doesn’t matter for the rebuild. Rebuild was over in 2022. If they fail to win 80 games in 2025 2026 or win world series both years the rebuild was over in 2022 either way. Rebuilds don’t have to be successful.
Rebuilding teams don’t trade prospects for scrubs like IKF Cruz. Don’t trade 3 pitching prospects for a trashed wrist. That’s what teams who’s rebuild failed do.
If Cherington is fired. Wouldn’t surprise you if they fired Shelton and gave Cherington another year would it? I can’t believe they are still here now so nothing would surprise me. New gm doesn’t mean another rebuild. They could and should try to contend in 2026 2027 even 2028 if 2027 was a success. Trade Keller Skenes Jones Reynolds Cruz Bart Bednar Santana and reload to build around Konnor Bubba who have hall of fame ceilings.
I think yours is a very basic, rudimentary definition of “rebuild”. And that’s fine. We get it
KC. BAL. CLE. MIL. All went through rebuilds. Using your definition, it meant simply pushing out the old deadwood on the MLB roster and inserting the kids from the farm in their place.
Ok TB did this as you eloquently explained a couple years ago and did it for years
TB had an exemplary farm system
The aforementioned teams also had good farm systems but not as thorough where depth was concerned. Through trades and signings, they augmented their rebuild with affordable, established MLB players. And became contenders
This is where Mendoza and I tend to scoff at the idea of the rebuild being complete in Pittsburgh, as the franchise has refused to augment
Again, it’s like building a house on a shaky foundation or with windows that haven’t been constructed properly. Wouldn’t take a great deal to fix if only the owner cared
This latest posting, Dream, makes me wonder if you were hitting the schnapps last evening.
Other than saving even more money, these “trades” have made little sense
I actually see him regressing this year, Mendoza
MLB pitching coaches are ingenuous. They learn how to address batters’ weaknesses and adjust. Cruz hit a bunch of homers last season. His average was respectable.
But having watched him, he never corrected glaring problems at the plate which he’ll pay for this season
His knowledge of the strike zone, inability to see spin pitches, lack of understanding where the count and pitcher strategy is concerned…portends trouble ahead
And yes, the lack of hustle and white flag waves against left handers, the stupidity he displays in trying to show off his arm—-it all goes uncorrected here with Uncle Sheltie and the lack of true veteran leadership here
Had to laugh at the Trib article this morn that had Hayes saying he’s healthy and has to be a leader here. Wonder if he said that with a handful of sunflower seeds.
Billy Cook ceiling is that of a healthy KeBryan Hayes.
Not going to cut it at first base,
Cook will cut it as well as anyone they have. Not like they are signing someone and no one is available anyway.
I would like to see Cook get a chance but with these veterans there are only so many slots available.I think that he will turn out to be a decent utility man.
Maybe Cherington just cannot count in signing Frazier.
Ben Cherington has officially devolved into Dave Littlefield.
That’s offensive to Dave Littlefield
Dave was terrible. Couldn’t do anything well. Did everything awful rock bottom. Huntington Cherington pretty good. Only problem they couldn’t find anyone who could develop prospects. Most important thing so they are awful as well.
The real question is- Dave Littlefield or Ca Bonifay?
Larry Doughty
No one was good at development since the 70s as seen by lack of home talent. At least the guys from the 3 playoffs years stretches could make trades. 93 to 2011 was pitiful.
Any idea when surgery took place? Reason why he didn’t have it as soon as off season was over? Another blunder from this front office. Forgive me if recent memory recalls to free agent signings where they signed with the pirates got a few year’s salary and then never played another game in the majors
Dude, this is on player. Probably had nagging issue all winter. Came to ST and pirates made him get MRI.
Trade him to the Mavericks.
Canha(36) would be a decent sign.
He can hit, play 1B, bats RH (oppo of Horowitz), also play LF.
This is best bet for now, I thought the same, veteran presence
Short side platoon DH.
Canha perfect fit for Pittsburgh. Makes perfect sense. No brainer. That’s why their no brain gm won’t sign him.
They should have signed Canha instead of Pham.
And no Frazier.
They still need a good veteran right handed reliever.
Still can sign Canha!!!!!! Don’t let them off the hook!!!!!!
BC has another aporia.
Well doesn’t that just suck. He’s going to need a lot of leeway to get timing and strength going once he is healthy. Hopefully he’ll be back before the end of spring to get that process going.
Cue the Casas for Jones trade talks again…
This is getting interesting. “Chronic” problem, so I’m assuming (!) – hoping more like it – BC knew about it, which speaks even more to how much he covets SH. Another move – hopefully a big one – is on the horizon. Folks have been talking about how the surgery is going to negatively impact his power but if the problem has been chronic it might attest to his hitting abilities and might explain his relative lack of power, so that post surgery he might demonstrate more. Of course, he might just be a Mark Grace type which would be a perfect fit at PNC. Stay tuned.
I find it interesting that Spencer Horwitz is better than Spencer Torkelson.
Spencer for Hire was better than both of them, but no one messed with A man called Hawk…
Very interesting DK daily shot today. Says the big move is still coming. We will see
Hey is Horwitz good defensively or more a DH type?
Good defensively as 1b likely.
Maybe it’s Malcom Nunez time. Anybody?
Mason Martin
He’s never healthy
Wow, as if there wasn’t enough pressure on this guy already to be the big boost to the offense, given that he and Pham were the only additions. Tough start.
Joey Gallo incoming??
So much for Horwitz leading the cavalry over the hill to save the Pirates in 2025.
You could almost expect as much from this pathetic franchise
70-72 wins in 2025. Bank on it
As much as I want them to win, on the other hand, I wouldn’t mind them losing 100 games again
I think that would guarantee Shelton and Ben a ticket out of town, permanently
Unless Nutting goes with them, I don’t see much changing here. He wants to go cheap on everything and I think all of baseball would be wary to take a job here
The Pirates continue to prove why they’re the worst run organization in all of sports!
Not even close to the Angels or Rockies. I don’t always say this, but this is on the owner. This isn’t like Oakland or Miami where fans can count the attendance to amuse themselves. If Chandler gets promoted, they could have the best rotation in BB, and they’ve handed out maybe $1.5M in FA contracts?
Pittsburgh not attempting to supplement that roster is criminal. So much talent in that rotation that will be wasted on the piss poor ownership.
I get not spending in the lean years when you’re rebuilding in that market but you have to put some money out when the team starts coming together.
“Chronic symptoms” and he passed a physical?
What a trash trade by BC. Absolutely disgraceful
The same guy who gives a rare Pirate long term contract to a guy with chronic back problems.
Maybe Nutting paid for the best medical team $ can buy and fleeced Toronto Cleveland!!!!!!!
There is no guarantee that Skenes won’t blow out his UCL this year and be lost to the Pirates for 2 of the 3 to 4 years they have left with him.
SO…this was the off season to try to build an offense to compete with their young staff and they didn’t even come close to pretending to try.
So, any notion that Nutting is just waiting for the *right* moment to spend is now proven false.
If they ever make playoffs and attendance goes to 2.3m he will spend 100m only because the attendance allows it. 2.5m he might go to 110m. Won’t ever go beyond that unless other owners force him to.
Time to let Billy Cook
Looks like they just signed Daniel Vogelbach…as a hitting coach.
According to an article in the trib BC acknowledged knowing about the chronic issues with a tendon in his wrist but still felt comfortable with the deal. The reason for the surgery was a new form of discomfort in the wrist.
Gave up a young controllable SP and 2 prospects for damaged goods.
Should just be fired now
Should’ve been fired after not being able to improve development after 5 years. Maybe year 6 it all comes together. All these failed players will start hitting. Although if he believed that he wouldn’t have traded 3 pitchers for a trashed wrist.
So waste another year of the little talent there is. New gm can come in and sign or trade for a 1b and RF.
All Cherington needed to do was trade for Naylor or Lowe. ( Since Goldschmidt 12 to 15 million probably off limits with Nutting) Sign Grichuk. Or Tauchman. Or Canha. Wouldn’t guarantee playoffs but would give them a shot.
I was ok with Horowitz trade. 3 pitchers they would never develop into anything close to special. Didn’t know about the trashed wrist. You can’t give up 3 pitching prospects to roll the dice on a injury. Maybe Nutting got the best medical doctors $ can buy and knows the wrist isn’t a problem! Could have just given Cleveland another prospect, got Naylor, give him a QO and get back a prospect better than any you gave up.
And you’re still wrong about Ortiz, and I’ll be reminding you about it all season
You just gave him away for a guy who will be another “just passin through type”
Bright eyes can come along and tell me what I saw with Ortiz wasn’t actual in true analytic nerd style, but he was better down the stretch than Keller
I’m not wrong. If Cleveland doesn’t improve him he’s just a guy. And they might but Pittsburgh wasn’t improving him unless Harrington would teach him a new pitch. Era should have been 4.31 he was just extremely lucky.
Abject baloney. I might as well be talking to the analytics clown
Lucky? Pitching for the Pirates? You can’t be serious
Please note, I’d be fine trading him. Or Keller. Or Oviedo. But jeez, get something in return
That’s all smart teams care about. What you should have done vs what you done. What will you do moving forward. 98 percent of people look at it the way you do. That’s why I look like genius.
It all comes back to the idea of rebuild, Dream. There’s no genius involved here
Let’s say it again, if we agree the rebuild is over then surely, we agree that it was completed with a great many deficiencies in the final product
The Pirates refuse to address those deficiencies. Horwitz was like putting superglue on a huge crack in the foundation.
All of this said, I can understand trading from areas of depth to fix the deficiencies. The Pirates did not do that and have done nothing this off season
It’s almost incredible.
Rebuild finished up in 2022. They traded all expiring players and secured #1 pick. 2023 they weren’t ready to contend yet but gave it a try and injuries got them. That’s why they weren’t ready, no depth.
Bell trade absolutely nothing.
Marte trade a kid who can play ss but can’t hit.
Tailon trade absolutely nothing.
Stallings trade Nicolas.
Frazier trade Jack but they broke him.
Rich Rod nothing
Musgrove Bednar and whatever endy gives
Trades were actually pretty good. Just development was awful. These weren’t high tier trade chips. The 2 best ones Musgrove Marte got pretty strong returns. But if this is as tuff of rebuild a gm could do and it is vs easiest Washington having 2 mvp contenders and a cy young contender to trade. They got more for Juan Soto alone than Cherington in 5 years worth of trades. Then again Cherington could have traded Reynolds Keller Bednar at peak value and missed on that opportunity.
Not to give them a pass but as my friend likes to say you can’t get blood from a stone. Yet Cherington did about as well as he could. Bell trade was weak but it’s a dh with severe ups and downs and not cheap salary. Peguero hit the ball really hard for his age. Quick hands. Athletic. No doubt SS. It wasn’t until 2024 they got him well enough to play SS. It shouldn’t have been that hard. He should have been starting SS last year with around 800 ops. His ceiling was everyday no doubt ss might get a all star game or 2. Malone was a worthy 1st round pick, he just couldn’t stay healthy. Marte trade should have been the best or 2nd best trade in building the future pirates. Malone better prospect than any of the 3 sent to Cleveland. Better prospect than Harrington Burrows Solometo Barco.
Head was projected late 1st round talent. Padres paid him more than any 3rd round draft pick in history of mlb draft. Like 3 million. He was their Bubba. Kid hasn’t improved since he got here. You’ll love this. Pirates got him started him in low A spent all of 2021 there never promoted. Not a good sign. But started 2022 in high A ok it’s something. All of 2022 in A. Starts 2023 in A. Spends all of 2023 in A. Take.a guess where he started in 2024? Ok smart guy, but where did he finish in 2024? Wow you are getting good at this. 360 at bats. 133 strike outs. .208 batting average. That doesn’t look like Altoona material to me. Looks like 4 straight years in Greensboro.
Padres actually did Cherington a favor. Head was a no doubt cf and if bat played all star ceiling. Cherington wanted Tucipita Marcano! No doubt 2b with ZERO power. Padres thought he was better as well so Pirates had to settle for Head.
Well stated. Pretty good rendering of things and yes, you can’t get blood from a stone which again makes me wonder about the process of scouting young players and assessing their abilities
Player development has been horrible. Scouting isn’t too far behind that description
Anyone can list can’t miss prospects as targets. It’s the diamonds in the rough that aren’t making it here anymore—the guys missed by other orgs
And it’s the continual misjudgments on position players especially that’s hard to miss here.
There aren’t many diamonds in rough. There’s video and data on just about everyone. Why the draft is drastically shorter and less minor league teams.