The Nolan Arenado trade speculation has quieted in recent weeks. After the eight-time All-Star used his no-trade clause to quash a deal that would have sent him to Houston, the Cardinals have been unable to find a suitable match. St. Louis president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said at last month’s Winter Warm-Up event that the Arenado saga remained the front office’s top priority. However, both Mozeliak and chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. stressed that dealing the third baseman was not an absolute necessity to get the team’s payroll to levels that ownership finds tolerable.
It’s now an open question whether the Cards will be able to line anything up. In an MLBTR poll last week, nearly two-thirds of respondents felt Arenado would begin the season in St. Louis. That won’t stop Mozeliak and the front office from continuing to explore possibilities. Jon Morosi of the MLB Network reports that the Cards have “had recent communication” with the Red Sox regarding Arenado.
That doesn’t necessarily mean talks have gained any kind of traction. Katie Woo of The Athletic wrote in early January that efforts to move Arenado had stalled. Woo suggested at the time that Boston might up end being the only plausible suitor for an offseason trade. Those discussions have perhaps been held up by Alex Bregman’s lengthy free agent stay. Boston is one of a few teams known to be involved on Bregman, though they’re reportedly reluctant to go beyond four guaranteed years. Bregman has seemingly weighed multiple six-year offers, so the Sox appear an unlikely landing spot.
Arenado would be a more challenging roster fit. The Sox’s pursuit of Bregman was likely conditioned on the possibility of moving him to second base. Arenado has expressed openness to a position change to facilitate the right trade, but his third base defense is his primary selling point. It’s unlikely the Red Sox would consider bumping him to the keystone. They’d presumably instead move Rafael Devers off third base. Boston’s longtime third baseman doesn’t appear enthused about a possible position change.
A move would also probably require the Red Sox to bench or trade Masataka Yoshida. The Sox have not moved first baseman Triston Casas for starting pitching, as many speculated they might. Devers would be a superior designated hitter to Yoshida, though Boston may not be keen on relegating him to the bench when he’s under contract for another three seasons. Yoshida is owed $18MM annually on a deal that is well above market value. They’d need to eat the bulk of the contract to deal him for what would be a modest return.
Discussions between the Sox and Cardinals could theoretically involve Yoshida. Chaim Bloom, who will take over as president of baseball operations in St. Louis at the end of the season, was the top executive when the Red Sox signed Yoshida. At one point, Bloom believed strongly that his bat would translate against MLB pitching. Yoshida has been a good, not great, major league hitter. Even if Bloom still feels there’s untapped upside, the Cardinals are unlikely to eat a big portion of the contract. Their efforts to trade Arenado have been largely motivated by finances, recent comments from Mozeliak and DeWitt notwithstanding.
St. Louis owes Arenado $64MM over the next three seasons: $27MM this year, $22MM in 2026, and $15MM in ’27. The Rockies are paying an additional $5MM annually for the next two years. $6MM of the Cards’ obligations in 2025 and ’26 are deferred. Reports indicated the Astros were going to take all but $5MM or $15MM off the Cardinals’ hands had he approved the trade to Houston.
Yeah man I just had recent conversation with 1996 Jeanine Garafao, and that ain’t happening either.
Not surprising that a guy with a handle of “Tom Bernaski” could be into Janeane Garofalo. Wonder what she’s up to these days…
She is doing stand up comedy, Probably find some of her shows on Youtube. She is hysterical.
I read this long before it was posted here but the site was Sports Illustrated so I didn’t and still don’t believe there is fire behind the smoke. Until I see players and money discussed, move on to other items. So much click bait (no disrespect meant to MLBTR).
She is probably just sitting in a room eating a jar of mayonnaise.
Uh-huh, she loves man-aise. (Sorry.)
She sleep with your husband? That the reason for the hate?
layne – She’s up to her 60’s now with the huge botox lips, basically a Steven Tyler lookalike but with less facial hair.
I was always a Marisa Tomei guy, but she turned me down because she’s into short stocky bald guys.
That’s cool, cuz trading for Arenado sounds about as appealing as 2025 Janine Garafalo.
How can any team communicate with John Mozeliak of the Cardinals???
He’s not the same person as he was early in his hay day.
Where trade negotiations use to be a strong point for him….. he doesn’t have near the rationalization skills as he once did.
Way better than Bregman, though I still have my doubts that there’s a chance of it happening
Massa for aranado even up. 2 bad contracts.
Nado’s contract isn’t bad at all.
Payne – $64M for 3 years of 2.4 WAR is an awful contract unless Arenado can turn back the clock 3 years.
Even if it’s a straight up trade, Cards are looking to dump a lot more than $8M.
2.4 x 3yrs = 7.2war
64 ÷ 7.2 = 8.88mil per win
Not awful
Nado’s current aav is 21.3mil.
This deadline its 19.7mil
Next offseason 18.5mil
Nado’s contract isn’t bad at all.
=======================
Pretty bad. If I were to sign him today for 3 years (34-36), I’d be thinking $39M/3. Including the Rox’s $10M, that makes him underwater by $25M. Yoshi I have underwater by a little more..
That said, I’m basing my Yoshi assessment on him having a healthier season this year.
I agree with the mailbag take, Yoshida is underwater by some $35M-$40M. Basically a dead money contract. Arenado’s contract isn’t that bad.
Didn’t Tim Dierkes said Yoshida was worth about $4-5 million over a 1 year deal?
I wouldn’t argue with those numbers, but I was looking at the take in the recent newsletter. Either way, the deal is mostly dead weight.
Wait – If Yoshida stays healthy and puts up a .900 OPS while playing a passable LF when needed, what does his remaining 2 years @ $18.6M each look like?
I mean Joc “Don’t call me Norm” Pederson is getting paid $21M next year and his 3.5 WAR combined for 2023-2024 ain’t much different than Yoshida’s.
Fever, do I get a unicorn with that? I’ve always wanted a unicorn!
I’m unwilling to postulate a career year for a guy who is 31. I admit that the original projection on Yoshida came to an .860 OPS (never even close to .900), but he was two years younger then. At this point I think an .800 line in a platoon role might be his ceiling.
Biggest problem is that Yoshida’s famed plate discipline didn’t translate to the majors. He is still good at putting his bat on the ball, but he swings at everything and doesn’t make especially good contact. You’ve already written down the friendly bet on this, right?
That doesn’t shed enough payroll for St. Louis to be interested.
If that were the trade, it would have happened already. Either a third team needs to be involved or it will include prospects and/or Casas as well.
You’re insane if you think casas is involved in this deal
“had recent communication on Arenado”
Bill: What’s with Arenado?
John: Yeah he’s still here.
The headline of this article states “recent communication,” yet nothing in the article backs up that headline.
??
What are you talking about? It’s a direct lift of the cited report by Jon Morosi?
The more relevant question regards what the manner of communication is (my guess it that it’s the Cardinals reaching out to the Red Sox to see whether there might be anything there), but it is “backed up” in the article as much as any article built on a report is.
No quotes. No details. Just “he said”…
But, ok.
Trade Rumors. Key word is rumors.
Chicken – Exactly!
And the requirement for something to be a rumor is similar to the contacting 3 employers requirement to collect Unemployment.
1) Blind email sent to company that’s not hiring
2) Phone call made at 3AM, nobody answers.
3) Asking the bartender if he knows of anyone hiring
Check, good for another week.
I’m sorry that you’re missing the point. The point is that there is no proof of recent communication. I know this site is all about rumors. It’s also apparently all about click bait.
Jon Morosi cited a “source.” He’s a credible reporter with access to people who would have been involved. The only information he attributed to his source is that there have been “recent communications.” That’s ordinary enough that I don’t see any reason to doubt that the source said what Morosi says he said.
I doubt Morosi is lying. Maybe the source is lying. Morosi isn’t vouching that it’s true, only that he had a source who is in a position to know what the source claimed to know.
bcjd – I agree Morosi is one of the good ones, but you do understand if Bloom called Breslow to check in that would technically constitute “recent communication”.
It’s really important to carefully evaluate how things are worded. The report says the Cardinals had communication with the Red Sox, which implies the Cardinals initiated. Whenever that happens, it holds less weight because we all know the Cards are more motivated to get a deal done than the Sox.
Of course. All that was reported was “recent communications.” I wouldn’t even go so far as to conclude the Cardinals initiated. There’s nothing here to suggest that the two sides did anything other than check in.
Hmmmm….must be a rumor
I’m sorry that you’re missing the point. The point is that there is no proof of recent communication. I know this site is all about rumors. It’s also apparently all about click bait.
The proof is the Morosi tweet. How could any reporter furnish proof of a communication between two or more other people?
Gosh, I don’t know. By maybe providing even ONE minor detail? Just one.
Perhaps the source didn’t give any details. I’m sure Morosi spoke with someone who is in a position to know that such a call was made. The reporter vouches only that his source said something, and that the source is in a position to know. He doesn’t vouch that it’s true or confirmed.
Given how basic and anodyne the information is, that’s enough sourcing IMO.
Recent communication is in quotes because I think the writer is being sarcastic?
I love him but my god devers needs to get off of 3b.
He – Yep, the transition to first base should have begun last year and would have been a perfect opportunity with Devers’ shoulders hurting and Casas missing half the season.
It’s not the most non puzzling move to the position for me that goes to yordans knees. It’s practically a felony he’s still grabbing fly balls in left.
Yoshida for Arenado straight up. St Louis saves $10M over 3 years.
Pass. Arenado is a much more valuable player than Yoshida, and the Cardinals don’t need another OF/DH.
I second that!
Cards don’t look like they are trying to win and even if they were Yoshida isn’t moving the needle. They should either salary dump or eat more salary than needed to get a prospect.
Not one that hits from the left side.
That’s really the issue. I see no way the Cards want any veteran back. I think they just want to reset the entire team, get cheaper and younger.
gbs – If Yoshida continues to be a 1.4 WAR player and Arenado continues to be a 2.4 WAR player, the difference is not that big.
Really hard to predict whether Arenado can turn things around, his bat has definitely slowed and he’s lost a step in the field.
I think Yoshida has the better odds of improving.
That’s my take too. Arenado has been in decline defensively in recent years almost as much as he has been offensively. It’s just the offensive numbers are easier to find. But even if the defense were still on the plus side the fact that his offense has dropped so much makes this a dubious fit for Boston. Just because he stands in the right hand batters box doesn’t make him a good right handed hitter to add to the lineup. Bobby Dalbec also stood in the right handed batters box but the team got precious little out of those PAs.
Ken – Excellent post! Yeah he won 10 straight Gold Gloves and then the past two years he didn’t, so obviously his defense has declined.. If it’s related to injury I’m not aware.
I just rechecked the defensive numbers on Fangraphs and it’s not as sharp a decline as I remembered, but still a little defensive decline for him.
Bottom line though is this only makes sense for Boston if Yoshida can be moved and Devers goes to DH. If acquiring Arenado means moving Casas then the Sox upgrade defensively at 3B but likely downgrade defensively at 1B (which could drag down the rest of the IF) and downgrade offensively overall. But St. Louis has about as much need for a lefty OF/DH as Boston does, which is to say virtually none. So this would have to wind up being a 3-team scenario with some team with a need for Yoshida’s contributions in the mix. But that’s a very difficult proposition to pull together this late in the off-season.
Ken – Yeah Arenado was nominated for a GG last year, although not for 2023.
Cards will not make a trade unless they receive significant payroll relief. Astros were gonna pay nearly all of Arenado’s remaining salary, maybe that trade will still be on if Bregman signs elsewhere.
Bregman, Cease or bust Boston
I doubt it. Houston will bring back their own and make it work if he agrees to their price but they aren’t going through the player position shuffle for Arenado. And I doubt he’s going to OK a trade there now after turning it down earlier anyway.
Saga here’s the bottom line here. The only way an Arenado deal makes sense for the Cards is if whoever acquires him takes on most of his remaining contract. The only way a trade to Boston works is if Boston can move Yoshida to free up DH for Devers and 3B for Arenado. The only way Boston can move Yoshida is to cover most of his remaining contract. So to acquire Arenado Boston would be essentially covering most of his remaining contract and most of Yoshida’s contract, as well as trading away even marginal prospects to acquire Arenado. Given that Arenado isn’t even worth his own remaining contract there’s no way he’s worth most of his contract and most of Yoshida’s contract. There just isn’t a deal here that makes sense.
Ken – Doesn’t it seem like some people here think Cohen, Steinbrenner or Walter own the Red Sox instead of Henry.
How can people think, after more than 5 years of extreme cheapness, that John Henry would now approve eating/taking on a combined $110M+ just to replace Yoshida with Arenado??? It absolutely boggles the mind, this complete absence of logic.
And Arenado is not even that great a 3B anymore. Over the past two years he’s not even Top Ten in DRS.
In fact Arenado is 29th with a negative UZR!!
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?season1=2023…
I really think and hope it’s the Cardinals that have been driving all this trade talk nonsense with the Red Sox.
Here’s the thing, if the Sox truly wanted to upgraded 3B right now …. why not work a trade for McMahon? Why not sign Madrigal?
The Pirates have two strong 3B, why not work out a trade for Kiner or Hayes?
I still think the best plan is to give Campbell a shot playing some 3B this year with the Red Sox. Replacing Devers is not an immediate need, especially considering the Sox stated they won’t try to contend until 2026 at the earliest.
Fever it’s not even about being cheap. No team will piss away that much money for a marginal increase in overall player value to the team. It’s just not going to happen. If Arenado were the same player he was 5 years ago maybe, but not the 2025-2027 version we’d be getting.
Ken – You are 100% correct, and I was gonna say even Cohen, Steinbrenner or Walter would not do it.
As proof, have the Yanks eaten DJL’s contract? Nope, and he’s sucked for 4 years now.
Have the Dodgers eaten Taylor’s contract? Nope, and he’s sucked for 3 years now.
It’s crazy how some are so hellbent on immediately releasing Yoshida who despite two years of health issues has STILL performed better than average. It makes people wonder if there’s underlying reasons, like perhaps a backlash because of the Japanese trio that spurned the Red Sox and joined the Dodgers.
Ken – Besides DJL and Taylor not being cut loose, I forgot to mention an even more obvious comp ….. Stanton.
Yoshida’s .775 OPS and 111 OPS+ far exceeds Stanton’s .736 OPS and 102 OPS+ over the same time period. And yet the Yanks haven’t cut him loose yet either.
Incorrect math.
Cards pay Arena $54 million over three years and a little is even deferred. Rox pay $10 million more over first two years.
Sox pay Yosh $54 million over three years.
Arenado is diminishing, Yosh even more so.
With Yosh Red Sox would need to chip in $15 million plus Hunter Dobbins (team # 11) plus Blake Wehunt (team # 28), or $24 million with no prospects.
I just don’t see a deal unless Boston wants to move Triston Casas.
Yeesh, some misinformation (disinformation?) here.
Cardinals owe Arenado $64M over the next three. Boston owes Yoshida $55.8M.
Arenado’s recent performance has been diminishing, perhaps harshly. Yoshida’s MLB performance has been steady; he was worth similar WAR last year as the year prior, in notably fewer games. Which makes sense in both cases, as Arenado is a few years older.
Sagacity,
What do you mean Arenado’s cash flow is $52M the next 3 years? How did you calculate it?
He’s due $74M the next 3 years. The Rockies are paying $10M of that. Part of his salary is deferred. The result is the Cardinals owing him a NPV of $60M.
gbs – The term “cash flow” doesn’t even make sense in that context.
For players there’s Adjusted Payroll Salary and there’s Luxury Tax Salary.
You need to look at the contract breakdown again. $64M is what that Cards are on the hook for to pay Arenado. Colorado is paying an additional $10M.
OK, I checked BR. My error. Arenado gets 27, 22, 15 from dirty birds.
Yosh gets 18.6, 18.6, 18.6
64 – 55.8 = $8.2 million difference
So my conclusion should read:
With Yosh Red Sox would need to chip in $6.8 million plus Hunter Dobbins (team # 11) plus Blake Wehunt (team # 28), or $15.8 million with no prospects.
Understand that you still don’t agree,
I still don’t see a deal unless Boston wants to move Triston Casas or unless a third party wants Yosh.
Boston eating 15.8mil to move Yoshida is probably fair at this point, but your deal doesn’t account for Arenado’s contract also being under water (which is based on the rumored Astros deal) for his age 34-36 seasons or the leverage against the Cardinals from his no trade clause. So actual number would likely be a bit less.
Main problem for Boston is that their need is for a middle-of-the-order RH bat to breakup their lefties (Duran/Devers/Casas/Yoshida) and at this point Arenado is unlikely to be that kind of player. Arenado makes them better defensively and slightly worse offensively while pissing off their best player, which isn’t an ideal plan. If Arenado was still a ~130 wRC+ hitter, deal would have been done weeks ago.
Casas isn’t going to be part of this deal. I don’t know what the obsession is by so many to see Boston trade him but it isn’t happening.
Ken – Obviously I want Casas to stay at least one more year, but there’s plenty of red flags motivating the FO to try and move him.
Top of the list is the annual injuries that force him to miss a lot of time every year.
Plus they have no idea how long the rib injury will impact his swing, as his taking called strikes last year soared because of a reluctance to swing.
Plus his defense is absolute crap, except he’s good at snagging throws.
And we all know about the off the field issues, the dude already has more baggage than a cross country Southwest flight.
But I really, really hope he stays.
Geez. Gosh it’s has been in the States for one year. How can you even guess that he’s diminishing?! It simply may take that first year for him to acclimate. He may settle in as what we’ve seen. Way too early to tell.
Two seasons.
How can you even guess that he’s diminishing?!
=======================
I don’t think he is diminishing either, although he is 31.205. He had a 112 OPS+ last year. I actually think he lines up well in the #2 slot.
How can you tell.Yoshida is diminishing? He’s only been in the States for one year. Perhaps he just needed time to acclimate.
Two years but your comment still stands.
stymee – Two years, but your point is still valid and I’ve been saying the same thing for over a year now.
They could just bench or DFA yoshida. Probably not likely, but he’s not the obstacle that you make him out to be. Also, casas is a hard pass on this trade.
The only way Casas is in the deal is if Helsey comes back as part of the deal
RSox would also have to attach a pretty good prospect (of course not the top 3). Neither has great leverage to shed those contracts, but together in a somewhat close offset, it could work if STL likes a certain prospect as the prize.
sty muted me. Someone please tell him Yoshida has been in the majors for two years.
gbs – I told him 7 hours ago, before seeing your post.
This doesn’t help the Cardinals even a little bit
Looks like Bregman will have several FOUR YEAR OFFERS left on the table then.
Dear Alex Bregman
Make a decision. Draw straws. Flip a coin. Pull names from a hat. Consult a Ouija board. Just pick an offer dude!
Signed annoyed fans in Detroit, Boston, Toronto, Houston and Chicago
Seriously. It’s crazy that Houston said the offer is still on the table and he didn’t just jump at it.
@Tigersin2050 there’s a Houston Astros fan site called “Climbing Tal’s Hill”. According to an article there, it seems like there’s some evidence that Houston’s current offer is four years since they’ve already spent so much money and acquired other corner infielders. I suspect he may regret not taking the Astros original offer
Wasn’t aware of that. I just assumed “our offer is still on the table” meant the same thing. But that would make sense. It honestly seems like the media doesn’t really know what’s going on. One day the front runners are the BoSox and Tigers, the next it’s the Jays.
I take anything on FanSided with a grain of salt. Most are about as much of insiders as you and I. The only one on that entire site that I have found to be a reliable source of information is Robert Murray,
Toronto could be offering 7×200 and he’d be like hmm, I’m good.
Not all that surprising really. We’re talking about a player who wears #2 because he was pissed he wasn’t the first overall pick in the draft the year he was drafted. It’s all about ego with him, and accepting Houston’s offer after initially rejecting it would be admitting defeat. No way his ego can take that.
Then he should ask for a pay raise to $29 or $30 million but make it four years instead of six. I bet Astros would do that as would other teams.
@MLB Top 100 that’s exactly what the article said. Higher AAV shorter term offers.
Bregman on why he wears #2. youtu.be/gf3F5ouZPfA?si=ZobfOGncGnns1oxU His first words are that he was a huge fan of Derek Jeter,
Ken – Exactly! I said the same thing just a couple days ago, he’s got a bad reputation for a reason. He’s a jerk, but not a surprise considering he’s BFF with Cora.
As they say, the company you keep ….
No need to make decision until Houston removes offer.
You’re assuming Houston’s offer is the highest. Since all teams saw the reports of it, I don’t believe it is. Why would any team offer fewer years and less per year if they really wanted to sign him?
Because they don’t really want to sign him. They could be stupid and beat the Houston offer. I think it’s Bregman wishing hoping for a better offer. Until Houston tells him they are going to pull their offer there’s no reason to sign it. But sure Detroit signed Baez so they could definitely have a better offer.
Because Houston is the team that knows him best and if that’s where they pegged his value why should any other team think he’s worth more than that?
Maybe he’s waiting for the 60-day IL to open up a roster spot for the team he wants to sign with? Seems like most of MLB is waiting for something.
Bregman = BlueJays
@ BlueJaysjunkie They may be the only team willing to give him six years. An article on Climbing Tal’s Hill figured that the Astros current offer is actually a four year offer
Four years at $30 million per year seem plenty fair.
With spring training right around the corner it is time to bring this and the Bregman headlines to a conclusion. I am fine with whatever they decide as long as they don’t do something like give up Casas for Arenado which would be asinine. Just finish the story and move on.
Not if they pay all his salary. But no need to give up any good player just take on majority of Nolan.
Finish the story or trade Storey? 🙂
I would have to agree. I think we would need to throw in a top 20-30 prospect or two and then we get close to a deal.
Red Sox acquire 3B Nolan Arenado and RHP Riley O’Brien from the St. Louis Cardinals for OF/DH Masataka Yoshida, Hayden Mullins, and Blaze Jordan.
What do you guys think of that!!!
Nolan isn’t that negative of contract. Don’t see why they would take on Yoshida. They can either dump majority of his salary or just keep him until deadline.
yoshida is a better hitter than arranado presently. arranado, the better fielder
Arenado is the better speller
That’s why I was sweetening it with Hayden Mullins. I also just have a personal liking for Riley O’Brien based on the minors numbers
To get an Arenado trade done it might need a third team. That, or Boston should take whatever luxury tax penalty comes their way with additional salary.
Yeah you need a 3rd team that could find some use for Yoshida. The Cardinals do not want Yoshida at all they don’t need another lefty bat or another option at DH.
Yoshida has negative trade value.
Yoshida is tradeable whether you’re right or wrong.
That is true – and perhaps more tradeable than my comment makes it sound.
Yep. Having a universal DH helps.
Cease to Red Sox for Casas Yoshidas contract Perales Dobbins and Fitts
Move Devers to 1st and Arenado to 3rd
That is a MASSIVE overpay for one year of Cease.
Price to pay for padres taking Yoshidas contract off your hands for 18.6 mill in 2025, 18.6 mill in 2026, and 18.6 mill in 2027
What you think teams are gonna send a below market top of the rotation arm and take Yoshidas contract off your hands for free in the process?
There’s no reason to clean out the top SP arms in the farm and the best SP prospect the team has AND Casas, who had a good rookie year and was doing well before the injury last season.
The only way this trade is realistic is Casas, Yoshida plus Dobbins or Fitts. And that’s it.
There is no reason to try to include Yoshida in this trade though, it increases the price the Sox have to pay by including prospects and just doesn’t make sense. They should instead find another way to dump his contract.
Also there’s really no reason for SDP to take on Yoshida’s deal….
except the Padres are looking to cut salary, only reason to trade either Cease or King
Sure there is.
They need a LF this year and DH when Arraez leaves. Yoshida just so happens to fill a need the next 3 years for them.
So you’re expecting the padres to take on 41 million (Yoshidas contract minus ceases) in financial commitments and receive just Fitts or Dobbins? Yeah no that’s not realistic at all sorry.
Perales Fitts and Dobbins clears 18.6 mill off the books next 3 years AND Red Sox get a QO pick if theyre unable to sign cease.
Again nobody is taking his contract for free. You’re gonna have to pony up prospects to unload it esp if you’re getting a piece like cease back. You’re paying ceases price and paying to make 100% of the money owed to Yoshida go away.
If Red Sox rather keep Yoshida that’s fine
Casas and Fitts for Cease also works.
Deal Cease deal Suarez take back a contract like Yoshida you’re under the luxury tax line.
The proposed trade didn’t make sense to begin with.
Fitts or Dobbins would provide enough surplus value when combined with Casas to offset Yoshida. Also crazy that you think Yoshida can play LF for the Padres when he can’t play LF in Fenway.
This discussion is irrelevant because this trade would never happen because of how bad it is from the Red Sox side.
Fitts nor Dobbins by themself even come close to taking on that much money.
Youre seriously overvaluing both of them individually if you think either is worth 41 mill.
Youre either paying for cease and keeping Yoshida which prohibits the Arenado trade since you’ll be riding an 18.6 mill salary on the bench
Or you’re paying for cease and paying to make yoshidas contract to go away which will cost more than 1 of Fitts or Dobbins
Or you’re sending cash to pay at least half of Yoshidas salary along with Casas and then 1 of Fitts or Dobbins.
Easy as 1 2 3
Casas and Fitts for Cease also works.
======================
No chance they get 4 years of Casas for one year of Cease.
There’s no way the Sox are pissing away a good young player and 3 pitching prospects for 1 year of Cease and to dump Yoshida’s contract. They’d sooner just DFA Yoshida and eat the money than do that ridiculous deal.
Ken – Did you see the other article here about Cease to the Red Sox? It interestingly talked about what the rotation would look like, and completely left out Bello.
Makes me think the MLBTR staff has heard rumblings about the Red Sox getting out from under Bello’s ginormous contract.
Personally I think Baltimore makes the most sense. They need a solid SP and they didn’t want to pay for one, so they will likely dip into their farm system to trade for one.
3 Years of Casas so far in his career has not been worth 1 of Cease.
Well enjoy 3rd place
The only place Raffy is moving to is DH, and yes, hopefully sooner than later.
And Devers at 1B is a pipe dream unless he’s been working on it all off season. There’s no way he can come to spring training and just learn to play 1B in like 6 weeks. No way. This narrative has to stop.
If Nelson Cruz can do it at age 40 I believe in Devers!
Maybe Nelson Cruz had *extra help*
mlb.com/news/texas-rangers-outfielder-nelson-cruz-…
Casas? Do the Padres need a 1B? Yoshida is almost an unmovable contract. He can’t hit LHP and has little power and no speed or defense tp speak of. I think it was Steve Adams that called him a platoon DH. Moving him would require increasing the prospects going to the team trading for him or paying down all but $4-5 million per season. Perales had Tommy John in June and isn’t expected back until 2026, Not much value there . Dobbins is not a good prospect. His scouting report says below average FV. His upside is a #5 starter. No real value going to the Padres in that proposal.
Spitballin’ here. Yoshida plus $36 million, Abreu, Crawford, and Fitts for Cease. Or add a top 100 prospect like Arias that is in low A and get someone like Hoeing added to the deal. That seems like a good compromise after the Padres asked for so much back in December,
That trade would approach Mookie Betts level of stupid! Casas is still a kid with a couple freak injury setbacks, but he still has too much potential to not break out big soon… So you’re trading a projected 300+ HR over the next decade for a 1 year rental you don’t really need at the moment. They definitely need a younger arm with more control if they’re giving up Casas.
I cant believe all the Casas haters. he’s a stud and due for a breakout!
Due to break something else? That I would believe.
Wow… thank god you’re not the GM…. that is terrible.
Only if Helsey comes with him and Yoshi is also part of the deal.
Trade Nolan to another team then. Or keep him.
So they might be paying Devers the remaining +$250M be a DH?
Money well spent.
@nuero could he play better outfield than Jose Altuve?
Although he’s six years younger, Devers, according to Statcast, is a slower runner than Altuve. In fact, Statcast even has Juan Soto clocked in at a faster 90ft sprint time than Devers. That doesn’t bode well for Devers switching positions.
Lol, Altuve can still run, but he has got an absolute water pistol for an arm. Nothing
Better than paying him for weak defense at 3b. Seems he could learn 1b though.
If I’m St. Louis, I want casas. That frees up devers to play first atleast
The Cardibals really dont need a lefty bat or a 1b. They have Contreras, Burleson and Gorman for 1b.
Except swapping Casas for Arenado makes Boston an overall weaker team. The hit to the offense more than cancels out any perceived gain on defense. And it’s only perceived gain on defense because it comes with the massive assumption that Devers can play an acceptable defensive 1B and won’t cost them more outs from bounced throws getting past him.
Red Sox aren’t swapping Casas for Arenado that’s silly talk. Casas has way more value than Arenado.
Smoke Signals?
Bingo
Sox fans…. do you have a lottery ticket player worth trading? I know there’s no way in hell we get anyone from your Top 10. It’s either a Low A lottery ticket that’s been in your system for 4 or more years, or it’s IFA Pool Money for Nado….and probably you move a 1 year salary to offset this years Nado salary?
We gave up nothing for Nado: a low tier starter in Gomber, a weak hitting prospect in Montero and 2 lottery tickets that didn’t pan out. That realization should hopefully put the nail in the coffin that some Cards fan have in getting one of your highly touted prospects. Nado was in his Prime 4 years ago, he’s declining rapidly now.
You can have one of the hundred or so positionless middle infielders Chaim drafted. Mikey Romero sounds about right. Currently ranked #13 per SoxProspects
soxprospects.com/players/romero-mikey.htm
The problem with any deal for Boston to acquire Arenado is as follows. It only makes sense for the Cards to trade him if whoever acquired him takes on most of the contract still owed to Arenado. Arenado only fits on the Sox if they can move Yoshida, freeing up DH for Devers. The only way the Sox can move Yoshida is to cover the majority of the contract he’s still owed. So Boston would be essentially paying the majority of Arenado’s contract and Yoshida’s contract to gain Arenado. That makes zero sense.
Saga: You have to remember most Sox fans buy into the notion that all their prospects are can’t miss . You nailed it with the Sale trade. Kimbral, Pomerantz those were two others that people cried about the parts given. I don’t know if it’s the front office that sells everyone on these prospects or is that the norm. People are quick to toss DD under the bus for trading Duds. I ask this question ( who has come back to bite them out of any of them) ?
Smells like a false flag to lower Bregman’s price.
I think Bregman knows his options. If he wants 6 years, better learn the Canadian National Anthem then
That’s how I read this. The Cards are a rough matchup, and Arenado is not the RH middle of the order bat we need. I think maybe the RS are trying to prod Bregman to finally make a decision. I’d bet they have a trade in mind for either Casas or Yoshi, but ST is about here for everyone.
Arenado +$$ for Fitts.
Area of need for area of need.
How are the Red Sox feeling about Ceddanne Rafaela these days. That outfield is getting pretty crowded.
Like he should be the starting CF. His bat needs work, more specifically he needs to work on his swing decisions. If Duran broke out earlier, Rafaela is probably still in AAA in 2024 working on it.
The OF is crowded, but workable if they get rid of Yoshida. Frees up the DH spot to get Abreu/Anthony/Duran/Rafaela consistent ABs.
Don – The Red Sox will not tolerate another year from Rafaela like he had last year. They want him to get his head out of his butt and learn to not swing at pitches that are 3 feet out of the strike zone. They can’t afford to carry a fulltime player with a .664 OPS and 82 OPS+ who hasn’t walked since early August …. especially one that doesn’t even get nominated for a GG. If he doesn’t straighten out, he will likely ride the bench as a defensive replacement or get demoted.
On the bright side, Yoshida has already reported and he’s looking much more muscular. Also Devers has been in camp for nearly a month already and is determined to improve his defense. So they are off to a good start.
Bello, Crawford, Crochet, Giolito, Campbell and Slaten are all in camp too. No sign of Rafaela though.
I’d do arenado, helsley and 20 mil for yoshida and 2 top 20 prospects. Or yoshida and Casas
Arenado for Nick Sogard and the Red Sox take on all salary. That’s all that garbage Midwest turd factory deserves and they should thank the Red Sox on their hands and knees.
This make zero sense. The Red Sox have shown they are frugal. Why pick up Arenado’s big contract without moving Casas or Yoshida first.
St. Louis will go after casas most likely. That’s the best reasonably priced controllable player in their organization
I can see what St. Louis wants but that makes no sense for how the Red Sox are operating. Why trade a young and long term controlled asset for a big contract for a 33 year old veteran? Is St. Louis eating almost all the contract?
If the Red Sox can afford Bregman they can afford Arenado.
What is it the Cardinals need, other than dumping $64M over 3 years?
Pay him to waive the NTC. He has to say yes. What the hello do you think his agent works for…..?
They were eating a big chunk of salary to get a couple decent prospects from hou
Unless it’s been made known that Nolan refuses to consent to play for any of them, I don’t get why the Bregman Bidders don’t opt for Arenado instead.
Much less $ for a desirable, bite-sized 3 years.
During those 3 years, I foresee similar numbers (and, honestly, a little bit more from Arenado with the stick) and similar stellar D at third.
After those 3 years (and sadly, perhaps sooner), I don’t see either being hot commodities. With Arenado you are free to bid sweet adieu while with Bregman you will be stuck with attempting a messy public divorce that will most certainly fail.
Thus, it must be a given that Arenado has told the Detroits et. al. that he ain’t comin’, because otherwise he’s the obvious pick here. To me.
Either that or I’m spectacularly incorrect which is OK since I don’t get paid for spewing this brand of nonsense.
Your rationale is a lot more convincing and better than what a lot of paid writers spew out with no effort on a daily basis.
Why, thank you, even though I respectfully somewhat disagree.
Bregman grew up a Red Sox fan. His mother was a Yankees fan and he and his father were Red Sox fans,
Take the REDSOX offer (if there really is one!!??) hopefully there are opt-outs. Put up BIG numbers and then opt-out. Gives the Sox another year to ease in the kids & gives Alex a platform year to go get $$$$. JMO
It’s just the Cardinals checking in with every team that showed even the slightest interest in Arenado. Stick a bold headline out with the Red Sox & Arenado in it to get clicks. No new news just recycled old news.
Smoke and mirrors
if the Sox trade any of their young talent for Nolan it will go down as another Jeff Bagwell trade. Nolan’s stats are Colorado inflated, he’s on the downside of his peak years. Now if they could get rid of Yoshiida in this trade then just maybe.
The Sox need to get rid of Yoshida and play their young players, end of story.
He’s two years removed from what would have been an MVP if his teammate wouldn’t have won it. Sure he’s on the downside, but the whole “can’t perform outside of CO” is a bit ridiculous.
Rotowire is a fantasy baseball site. they are not reputable.
Bill is not looking for a trade return for Nado. Bill wants Nado’s 64mil, paid down by 15mil, traded away, and Bill walks away. Taking on Stroman or Yoshida type salaries has gained zero traction. He wants a dump, not a mutual dump, or Nado stays until stl finds a buyer.
This organization has said everything but “we are trying to tank the season. ” They don’t want to win a single game this year and the fans deserve so much more than that,
Move Devers off third – it’s time.
I don’t think understand all this talk about Casas!.? RedSox are not trading Casas for any part of the deal for Arenado. Redsox outfield is clogged up badly. The talk about dfa ing Yoshida certainly shows he has way less value than Arenado. Yoshida and Abreu for Arenado. If it’s not perfect, then balance it out with $.
Jordan Montgomery for Yoshida…. One bad contract for another…. D-Backs need a lefty DH/ lost Joc Pederson, save 6 to 7 million this year. Red Sox throw in 8 mill to get Yoshida’s 2 years remaining down to 14 mill per season. Sox trade Montgomery if they are out of it at Deadline…. win for both teams.
Trading Yoshida should happen. Give him a better opportunity to play. Get some of his money off the books. Pay it down to 10M for the team that takes him.
Send Grissom and a low prospect with Yoshida and money to the Cardinals for Arenado. Now Raffy can DH. I’m more concerned with how bad he is at the position than whether or not he wants to play it.
Side note: do you guys realize that Devers is only signed for one more year beyond Mookie? How much goodwill could they have saved by trading Raffy instead?
Anyway, then get Bregman on a short, bloated contract. He wants 6/200, so do something like 2/75 which will give him the chance to get a more reasonable 4/125 in two years
It seems to me that no one is discussing the most important issues:
1. Will N.A. waive his no trade to go to Bos?
2. STL must trade N. A. before ST opens or have a very messy PR issue.
3. Are there any other takers and if so what are they willing offer if N.A. will waive to go there.
Those realities put the Breslow in the drivers seat if he wants to make a deal.
Boston is already on the list of 6 teams he said he would go to.
The point remains; “are there any other offers?” If there are why aren’t they being discussed. If not, Stl has to take what Breslow offers or have a PR nightmare once ST begins.
SIGN BREGMAN ALREADY YOU CHEAP MFers