The Cardinals have made zero trades this offseason. Two months ago, that would've been a huge surprise. President of baseball operations John Mozeliak declared at the end of the season that the team would cut MLB payroll and give consistent reps to younger players. Seven of MLBTR's Top 35 trade candidates entering the winter were Cardinals.
All of them remain Cardinals with less than a month until pitchers and catchers report. They're not all analogous situations. In at least three cases, the Cards themselves were probably taken aback. Willson Contreras told the team he had no interest in waiving his no-trade clause. Sonny Gray has also expressed an interest in staying rather than waiving his own no-trade rights. Nolan Arenado is reportedly more open to moving, though he used his no-trade clause to kill a potential trade to Houston.
Mozeliak has openly stated the organization is trying to deal Arenado. The baseball operations leader has called that the simplest way to get the team's payroll where they want it to be. That could still come together, but it has proven tougher to orchestrate than the front office seemingly envisioned. The Astros have already moved on. Other teams are reportedly balking at taking a big portion of the $64MM remaining on the third baseman's contract. Katie Woo of The Athletic wrote last week that talks on Arenado had stalled.
Those instances are beyond Mozeliak's control beyond the fact that he was willing to include no-trade clauses in Contreras' and Gray's free agent deals. (Arenado received his NTC from the Rockies when he signed his extension in 2019.) The front office probably expected those veterans would be eager to move rather than waiting out one or more transitional seasons. In that sense, the Cards are in an unenviable spot.
The most perplexing part of their offseason is that they haven't made any moves in response to those roadblocks. Their offseason has consisted of buying out Kyle Gibson, Lance Lynn and Keynan Middleton while claiming depth reliever Bailey Horn off waivers. That needs to change between now and Opening Day.
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There’s nothing more embarrassing than being at half-measure…
Osuna, Bratt, Foscue for Helsley should work for both teams.
Ownership should be embarrassed but they don’t care. They may finally pay attention when they only sell 10K seats a game for this year. Ownership blaming the fans for not going to games will backfire in a huge way.
I’m Not a MO fan but what is he supposed to do with any of this.
How is what the Cardinals are doing different than many other teams in the league?
Guardians
Twins
Padres
Mariners
Braves
Reds
All are teams that are potential playoff teams that have done pretty much nothing this offseason.
Nobody really thought the Cardinals were going to trade away all those players except the writers here who have a built in bias.
I am not impressed with the Cardinals offseason. But they aren’t the only ones sitting on their hands. This is not unique to the Cardinals. Why you guys keep pretending it is I don’t know.
You are one of the few Cardinal fans that I have heard who think that the team is not trying to rebuild. Call it reset or whatever but they want to get considerably younger and cheaper. If they cannot trade Arenado look for the team to move Donovan, Fedde, Matz, and Helsley to achieve their goals not in that order. They are at a lower payroll but clearly not low enough.
If the team was trying to rebuild why hasn’t it traded anyone? It’s the middle of January what exactly are they waiting for?
How do you know what the payroll goal is? You don’t. You don’t have a clue.
BITA, to this point they have not resigned any of their free agents which has reduced payroll quite a bit. Goldy, Gibson, Lynn, Kittredge, Carpenter not returning has dropped payroll significantly. They have nor traded anyone to date because thus far they either could not (NTC), and they are still working the Arenado move which I think will happen eventually after Bregman signs with a team. If they cannot move Arenado then others will go most likely. If they are competitive this year it will be because of the NL Central teams being equally non- competitive. You are right about one thing, I haven’t a clue what their projected payroll will be and I am not sure that MO knows today either.
Arenado is being shopped because he asked to be traded not because the team is trying to save money.
The free agents weren’t that great. No big loss.
We think they’re trying to reset because they said so.
There is no proof that Arenado asked to be traded. And he has since vetoed the one trade brought to him. Apparently he either wants the absolute perfect situation or he won’t go.
There isn’t 100% proof Arenado asked to be traded but it’s about as close as it gets. And he asked to be traded from the Rockies so asking to be traded again would not be a surprise at all.
I agree he’s wants the perfect situation which is the Dodgers.
The team has repeatedly said they are not rebuilding.
Reset
Not necessarily trying to win
Going young
And not rebuilding. Reset =/= rebuild.
The a’s have been saying that for years lol so have the pirates although the pirates are probably better then the cardinals this year
Lololol they are not trading Donovan
Only people unfamiliar with the org think Donovan could be traded. People who know how they work know that Donny isn’t going anywhere.
He could go somewhere isn’t aaa still an option
@ BITA. It’s not just the inactivity. The context in which the Cardinals are doing nothing is different from the other clubs other than the Reds. The Twins, Braves, Guardians, M’s, and Padres all figure to be in the mix for making the postseason. Maybe the Reds will be, too, but that’s more doubtful. The Cardinals probably aren’t even a .500 team, so they’re paying for a roster they shouldn’t be paying for. That’s their business, but it really is odd. The other clubs certainly deserve criticism, but for a different reasons. They should be trying to improve, but haven’t.
That’s nonsense.
The only difference is Mozeliak said payroll would go down. Other owners haven’t been so forthcoming. Mozeliak said it and then this site ran with that quote and made wild assumptions.
Why would the Cardinals not be a 500 team? They have lots of talent. The guys they lost to free agency weren’t that good.
My point is numerous teams aren’t having a good offseason. It’s not unique to the Cardinals.
I don’t understand the pessimism around the roster. There are clearly good pieces to build on and some interesting prospects on the way (Wetherholt, Davis, Matthews, Robberse, Hence).
I think people are negative because guys like Walker, Libby, and Gorman haven’t worked out even though it was thought they would be core players.
Specifically to those 3 Liberatore needs a legit opportunity. And Walker and Gorman need a good hitting coach. There is a lot of talent Matthews might be a stud. There are teams that need to rebuild the Cardinals are not one of them.
We did not make wild assumptions. We took them at their word.
What word?
Go back and watch that press conference. The same one where Mozeliak said payroll is going down. Repeatedly DeWitt said he thinks the team can compete in 2025. Not one time does anyone say rebuild or anything like it. Watch it.
Liberatore is meant to be a reliever. Andre Pallante and Michael McGreevy should be in the rotation.
Starting pitching is a weakness. Other than Kittredge I think they can replace what they have lost in house. With that said they won’t be a contender without spending on some upgrades.
By midseason the rotations top 3 will be Gray, Matthews and Fedde. That’s not that bad. And there are plenty of other guys to round out the back end of the rotation.
I don’t think spending is that important. If the team could get the young guys to play better that would help a lot and that’s the plan.
@BITA
You are right about what DeWitt said. No argument.
But consider this for just a second: Bill DeWitt is an old, rich, powerful, and proud man. He has enjoyed a lot of success as the Cardinals owner. He is used to getting praise from the media and fans alike. This is really the first time he has come under fire. I tend to believe his comments about the Cardinals being competitive were more of an emotional response to people questioning the team’s direction than an actual statement of fact. I think Mo came there to drop the bomb about a change in philosophy and he got overshadowed by his boss who isn’t use to criticism.
.
The team won 83 freaking games last year. Saying the team can compete isn’t some fantasy theory pulled from the sky the team was competing last year. The free agents are replaceable they weren’t that good in 2024. If the young players step up the team can be good and thats why the focus is on player development.
When I hear “player development”, I tend to believe they are talking about minor league player development. Meaning their goals are a little more long term. I’m not saying they have given up on Gorman, Walker, etc, I just think the emphasis is on not repeating the mistakes that stalled their development.
When I hear player development and then they don’t bring back all the old players who are free agents that tells me they want to give young guys more opportunity. McGreevy is overdue for a chance. Liberatore has never had a real shot. They handled Walker poorly. Gorman needs a hitting coach. There is talent they need to maximize it.
It is worse because they do have some money coming in from the TV deal. Not a ton, but enough to make smart upgrades in a poor division where contention is always possible.
The Cardinals literally said they’re not necessarily trying to win and that they’re going young. Those other teams didn’t say those things. Holding Fedde and Helsley makes no sense in light of their comments.
When on earth did they say they are not trying to win?
Watch the press conference where Mozeliak says payroll is going down. I sure did and I assume you did too because you sure know he said it. Repeatedly old DeWitt says he thinks the team can compete. Nowhere in that press conference does anyone say rebuild.
The team didn’t make as much money as they expected last year with the tv deal issues and a drop in attendance. That’s why payroll is dropping not because they are rebuilding.
Mo said they would be better than people expect at the Winter Meetings. No one expects them to go for blue chip FA’s or trades, but they simply are not rebuilding. They simply haven’t renewed deals for outgoing FA’s and are planning on most of that playing time going to young players. It’s a modest plan, but not a rebuilding plan since established players with value are still with the team and it is January.
Exactly Wagner
The team wants to focus on developing the young talent they have and giving the young talent a chance to play. And most Cardinals fans would tell you that’s long overdue. The team had become a haven for old dudes to see if they have more left in the tank and it’s been at the expense of opportunities for young talent.
@BITA – How has developing that young talent been going for them??? Carlson, Liberatore, Gorman, Walker, Herrera – these guys were all supposed to be studs and they aren’t living up to expectations. Mainly because ownership it too cheap to invest in developing said talent.
That’s why they are focusing on developing young talent dude. Because they haven’t done a good job lately. Ownership is going to spend more on this it was stated at the press conference.
From my perspective, when a team says they want to focus on player development I take that to mean building up a minor league infrastructure, pitching lab, hitting lab, extra coaches, etc. etc. that is likely situated at their Spring complex. It’s to be more effective at developing the players in their minor league system. Or at least have some kind of plan to make the kids better…now and into the future. I don’t think it’s player development at the major league level necessarily.
I hear you sob and while I think thats a huge part of their plan I also think getting big leaguers like Walker, Gorman and Liberatore going is important and part of the plan. The team has relied on these old guys the last few years and it has hurt the development of their younger guys and I think they want to fix that.
@BITA What’s different is those teams actually invest in their minor league system and development staff instead of letting multiple top prospects fall flat on their face.
“How is what the Cardinals are doing different than many other teams in the league?”
None of the teams you listed are deciding on rebuilding or not. They’re either playoff teams or up and coming. The only team you listed close to the Cardinals is the Mariners, but they don’t have any vets they’re looking to trade away. Plus the Guardians already made a couple of major moves (trades) and some minor moves (Bieber). Have you been paying attention to their offseason?
And putting the Braves in there is comical. They’re an elite team with a ton of talent locked in to long term deals that have them knocking on the door of the CBT. The only reason they didn’t make a deep run last year was injuries. They don’t need to make any big moves to win the division next year. Just little moves here and there that will keep them under the CBT.
The Cardinals won 83 games last year. They aren’t some terrible team in need of a rebuild. I could name plenty of those teams the Cardinals aren’t that team.
They haven’t traded ANYONE!
This site thought they would trade 7 guys away. They haven’t traded a single player.
The site didn’t think they would make seven trades. They put seven Cardinals on their likely to be traded list. It’s different. Stop beating that dead horse. It’s a pile of bloody pulp at this point.
They were correct about the situation with Arenado – the Cardinals made a deal to trade him, only to be nixed by the NTC. So far they have been wrong about the rest. There has been no firesale.
The situation and messaging has been wierd. They could have great performances from several young players and be competitive, or they could be worse than 2024. That’s the dilemma they face – to go for a strong reset and punt 2024 or to hang on and see what happens.
7 guys in the top 35 likely to be traded and not a single one has been dealt. That’s reality.
I said at that time I think Arenado gets dealt. It wasn’t clear at that time that he asked to be dealt but it is now.
The messaging has never changed. Mozeliak came out and said they were lowering payroll. His reason for this was to prepare the fan base for a rather inactive offseason. But rebuild was never in the cards pun intended. That was never the plan.
If you asked me I would say I want a rebuild. I was posting all kinds of trade ideas about how the Cardinals should trade off some of there talent for prospects. I definitely did that. But thats just my personal preference of what I wanted to happen not what the team wanted.
I’m confused. What are you hoping for with all of this dialog? We all have worked for numerous organizations that deliver conflicting information to the masses.
The Cardinals saw a PR disaster unfolding. 2 prominent players refused to be traded.
They read the open waters ahead and changed course away from the storm. They kept their guys. Mozeliak trying to not go out on a historically bad season. Fair enough. DeWitt. Probably doesn’t want to truly rebuild. There’s some young talent. Play it out.
See what happens. It’s definitely not a hill to make a stand on. This is really is not a black and white issue. Many shades of grey. Maybe they deal their guys during the season depending on how the season is going.
How is Arenado suddenly going to start hitting better than 101 OPS+ in 2025?
Have the Cardinals acquired anyone? I wouldn’t want to be a Cardinals fan right now.
Go figure half measures teams lost tv revenue from ballys bankruptcy and are doing nothing this off season.
It’s been a decade of half measures. An aging, once-great owner with prickly pride and moron for a son and an even bigger moron of a POBO.
I said it last year several times. It doesn’t really matter what the Cardinals do or don’t do until next year. It’s possible that the ownership situation is creating an environment where no one could be successful, but Mo, for sure, can’t fix this. He rode the coattails of more qualified people to success, then systematically removed them from the organization in order to consolidate his own power. Left to his own devices, he made one bad decision after another and here we are.
There is nothing to do but ride this out.
Mozeliak giveaways:
Adolis Garcia
Randy Arozarena
Zac Gallen
Sandy Alcantara
Tommy Edman
Feel free to add to this list, while also pondering why Mozeliak is NOT trading Fedde and Helsley.
Fedde and Helsley are not similar to any of those players. The situations are totally different.
Edman was NOT a giveaway! Whether they trade or keep him, getting Fedde for him was a win/win trade (well, win/win/lose when considering what the White Sox got in that 3-team deal).
Trading those three players is not up to the Cardinals. The players choose not to be traded and have no trade clauses. I’m no MO fan but his hands are tied. He did tie his own hands by giving the no trade clauses at a different time
Cardinals are likely not going to make the post-season this year. They could get a huge return for Helsley, maybe Ferris and/or Frasso from the Dodgers. Or inter-division for Kevin Alcantara and Jordan Wick. Helsley’s value will never be higher, he is better than Scott and Scott is getting $50 million/3 years or better.
It’s still a better chance than the extra value Helsley would provide in trade now compared to the trade deadline. They might as well go for it.
Whether it’s a half-full measure or a half-empty measure, disappointing nonetheless .Don’t root for them, but I respect their fanbase. I’m sorry, Redbirds fans.
Arenado is owed $74,000,000 for his age 34, 35, and 36 seasons. The Rockies are on the hook for $10,000,000 of that. If Arenado is a 2 – 2..5 WAR per year player over that period, he’s probably worth about $15,000,000 per year. Mo needs get over the idea he can dump most of the $64,000,000 the Cards are stuck with. The Cards are going to have to pay at least $19,000,000 of Arenado’s salary in order to make a deal.
Getting rid of $45M out of $64M IS dumping most of it! Mozeliak is probably willing to do that. He’s just not willing to eat more than $20M or so.
So? This has always been the plan, and it’s a perfectly good one. They still have enough talent to compete in a weak division even after cutting payroll, so there’s no reason not to keep these guys and go for it for now. It’s not like keeping them would do much to hurt their chances to compete again in 2026 or 2027, especially the ones still under contract or control for multiple seasons still.
Your trade candidate article was absolutely embarrassing, as even back then the Cardinals clearly had no plans to trade most of the guys you included, especially your idiotic inclusions of guys like Donovan and Nootbaar, good young players who still have three years of control left.
Yeah let’s see what happens. If the Cardinals trade away players in July instead of now they will still get back plenty of prospects and still save some money. Why sell now?
Heck who though the 2024 team had a shot? I’d didn’t but they were projected to be a playoff team back in June and July. It didn’t work out but oh well the team had a chance. This idea that a team has to be a super pow4r or rebuild is insane. If that’s the case most of the league should be rebuild8ng and obviously they aren’t
The stl FO approached the players about their NTC’s, to reduce payroll this offseason. It’s still plan A.
Some players affect attendance more than others. Being selective who goes later at the deadline helps a weakening revenue stream until then.
Full sell on the short term assets until next offseason. Don’t pretend.
Just because the Cardinals haven’t done anything, doesn’t mean they won’t.
I don’t like the idea of waiting until July, but nothing says they had to “rebuild/reset” the team by January?
Consuming all the professional and amateur Cardinals content these past few months has been brutal. The whining, whinging, pearl clutching despair is just too much.
A lot of Cardinals fans are entitled whiners no doubt about that. And the way this site has handled things this offseason hasn’t helped either.
I think the team wants to cut payroll but still try and compete. Is that really unique around the league? It’s not.
Exactly.
Im curious as to how much interaction Mo has with Arenado and the agent (is it still Boras?)
Because as long as those parties are all on the same page with where this is going, I don’t feel the need to know.
Arenado is in decline, and I’d send him to the Angels — a team he’s approved a trade to — for a shag bag of practice balls and some fungos — and worry about the rest later. The Cardinals shouldn’t at all expect anything talent-wise back. I think THAT is part of the issue. But who knows.
I just know it’s going to be the longest season at Busch Stadium since the early 90s after Gussie died and the Cardinals were nothing more than a line item for A/B to deal with.
Should have resigned Lynn and Gibson.
To take all of Arenado’s contract,give up a prospect?
As high as Mathews?
There is no reason to do that. They would be better paying Arenado to be league average (plus or minus) and keeping Matthews. They aren’t all that desperate.
They would be giving a $2.5M prospect to unload ~$60M.
That’s an awfully darn good deal….
And also…
Probably a pretty darn good reason!
Seems to me that there would need to be like…measurable activity to even get to half measure status! Imo turning down options doesn’t count. This is more like a homer Simpson “hide under some coats and hope it works out” offseason lol.