Reports last month from MLB.com’s John Denton indicated that the Red Sox, Mets, Phillies, Padres, Dodgers, and Angels were six of the teams (and perhaps the only six teams) Nolan Arenado was willing to waive his no-trade protection to join, should the Cardinals work out an acceptable swap with any of these clubs. Four weeks after that initial report, Boston remains “a preferred destination” for Arenado, according to MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo and Sean McAdam. What isn’t known, however, is if the Red Sox and Cardinals are anywhere close on a deal, or if the Sox are particularly motivated to bring Arenado to Beantown.
Acquiring Arenado would check a couple of big needs off of Boston’s offseason shopping list. Chief baseball officer Craig Breslow reiterated earlier this week that the Sox were looking to add “a right-handed bat out of the middle of the lineup,” considering that the team is heavy with left-handed hitters. Bringing one of the best defensive third basemen of all time to Fenway Park would instantly help Boston’s subpar infield defense, and Arenado would even be reunited with his good friend and former Rockies teammate Trevor Story.
One initial roadblock, of course, is the fact that the Red Sox already have a star third baseman in Rafael Devers. Though Arenado has indicated that he is open to a position change in the right circumstance and Devers’ agent said in no uncertain terms in November that his client was staying at third base, it is hard to believe that Arenado would move off the hot corner in deference to a much weaker fielder in Devers. If a trade did happen, Devers would presumably become the new first baseman or DH, though this creates other conflicts with Triston Casas and Masataka Yoshida.
Both of those players, however, have been mentioned in trade talks this winter, and even in some of the same trade talks. Casas is the far more valuable trade asset of the two, and while Breslow said “we’re certainly not shopping him,” that naturally doesn’t mean Casas is off limits. Indeed, Cotillo and McAdam write that “there remains a belief in the industry that the Red Sox remain open to trading Casas, potentially for young pitching, to facilitate other roster maneuvering.”
It could be that the Sox are looking to first trade Casas before making any other moves, as their leverage in a Casas deal would be lessened if the Red Sox created a positional logjam beforehand. Trading Casas purely as a vehicle to clear payroll space surely isn’t Breslow’s preference, which is why that aforementioned attempt to link Yoshida and Casas together was still part of an attempt to bring Luis Castillo from Seattle to Boston.
Payroll is also a major aspect of any Arenado trade, as the third baseman is owed $74MM over the remaining three seasons of his contract. Between deferrals and the $10MM being covered by the Rockies, the present-day value of Arenado’s contract reportedly works out to $60MM. The Cardinals’ chief incentive in trading Arenado is naturally to move as much of this money as possible, and the proposed deal with the Astros that Arenado blocked would’ve seen Houston take on either $45MM (as per Katie Woo and Chandler Rome of the Athletic) or $59MM (as per ESPN’s Jeff Passan) of the $60MM figure.
Theoretically, the Red Sox could absorb the entire contract and still stay under the $241MM luxury tax threshold, as RosterResource estimates Boston’s current tax number at just under $212MM. It remains unclear exactly how much payroll capacity Breslow has been allotted this winter, as while the Sox have made overtures to several top free agents, their spending has been pretty modest to date. The Red Sox could perhaps convince the Cardinals to take on a bigger chunk of Arenado’s salary (or at least closer to the $45MM figure) if better prospects are offered in return. Chaim Bloom’s involvement in this speculative trade is an interesting wrinkle, as the incoming St. Louis president of baseball operations has plenty of knowledge of Boston’s farm system due to his past stint as the Red Sox CBO.
Trading for Arenado would come at a lesser overall cost than signing Alex Bregman, another top third baseman who remains on Boston’s radar. That said, the Red Sox are known to still be in the running for Bregman, who has some notable ties to the Sox in manager Alex Cora (from their days together in Houston) and his longtime friend Walker Buehler, who just signed with the Sox himself before Christmas. Buehler recently told Cotillo and other reporters that even in his brief time in a Sox uniform, “I have certainly made a pitch all over the place for [Bregman] to come to Boston.”
Turning to other Red Sox targets, it remains unknown if Boston is still one of the teams getting consideration from Roki Sasaki. Earlier this week, Sasaki’s agent Joel Wolfe updated reporters on his client’s search for a Major League team, and didn’t give any indication that the right-hander was finished with his in-person meetings with interested clubs.
The Red Sox weren’t one of the seven teams known to have spoken with Sasaki already, and word hasn’t broken if a meeting has been scheduled or perhaps it is has already taken place since Wolfe’s last presser. As of yesterday, WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford reported that the Sox hadn’t “been told they are out of” the running for Sasaki’s services, so the situation is still up in the air.
thickiedon
Trading Devers would drastically improve the team
all in the suit that you wear
You spelled Yoshida wrong.
websoulsurfer
Trading Yoshida would only improve the team if it meant Devers was moving to DH and they were signing or trading for a 3B.
all in the suit that you wear
Yes, I agree.
aroid95
YES
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
No one would take devers with the huge deal and devers is huge on offense
It’s not going to be a Giancarlo Stanton situation if you don’t have to trade devers
Sagacity
sad – Devers is good on offense he’s nowhere near huge on offense. He’s above league average not close to elite and he’s getting older and his window of offensive success is closing. Pujols and Miggy Cabrera were both far better than him and started at roughly the same age and fell off dramatically at 32 and 33. Devers will be 28 in 2025 and his October birthday makes him an old 28.
Stanton is a great comparison. If he falls off after his 32 year old season like Pujols (2030) then Boston will carry the worst defensive 3B in history and a below average hitting 3B for FOUR years!!! That’s a lot like Stanton except Stanton never killed the pitching staff by misplaying 50 balls hit to him each year.
good vibes only
The gap between Devers and Judge/Shohei/Acuna/Witt/Soto is fairly big but I think 30-40% above league average (134 wrc+) and getting down ballot MVP votes every year for the bat alone qualifies as huge on offense in my book. Easily one of the better pure hitters in the game.
You’re right about the fielding tho, they need to find a way to DH him asap.
websoulsurfer
AL OPS+
1. Judge • NYY 223
2. Soto • NYY 178
3. Alvarez • HOU 172
4. Witt • KCR 171
5. Guerrero • TOR 166
6. Rooker • OAK 165
7. Henderson • BAL 159
8. Seager • TEX 145
9. Ramírez • CLE 143
10. Devers • BOS 139
Top 10 is elite.
deweybelongsinthehall
I’ve been preaching it for years and they finally realized it despite what is said publicly. Yoshida is the obvious problem and I think they may have a deal but are waiting to see what Sasaki does as dealing Yoshida takes them out of the equation should they be in it.
raregokus
How would trading Yoshida affect their chances of getting Sasaki?
ghostofmookiebetts
It wouldn’t. People like to pretend they’re an expert on things they know nothing about.
Poolhalljunkies
Dont forget devers played through both shoulders being injured and still put up numbers
Poolhalljunkies
Thats silly they have no shot at sasaki either way
Rexhudler86
@dewey. I agree, think sasaki is holding up the market. Someone will be acquiring bonus money on the 15th, I bet trades have been worked out. It’s not going to be a whole bunch of teams just one team, after that the rest of chips will fall. Trades and free agency will happen again as teams start to pivot.
william-2
There isn’t a scenario where the Red Sox do not have expendable players should Sasaki pick them. There is no scenario where they can’t shed pitchers off their opening day pitching staff should Sasaki pick them. There is zero financial reason either.
If anyone associated with the team is delaying fixing their glaring problems on account of what Sasaki may or may not do they should be fired immediately.
Lastly, the single biggest surprise of the entire off season would be Sasaki picking Boston.
Rexhudler86
@william. Whoever sasaki picks is going to acquire bonus money. I agree yoshida isn’t the common demoninator but he could be traded for international money to a team that can’t get any free agents and red Sox could flip that for a hole to the team in on him. I’m not even saying it’s solely on the red Sox just saying sasaki is backing things up.
PoisonedPens
Devers looked a bit out of shape last year and the numbers show it. He’s also getting $30M/year to play wherever the Sox decide to put him, and has led either the AL or MLB in errors in each of his seven full seasons.
william-2
If I were the Red Sox I wouldn’t count or delay on anything, I would just fill their needs with the best available options.
Making moves towards acquiring more international money for a pitcher that has not even indicated they are in the top 7 teams of interest seems foolhardy. Sasaki has made it clear that the international pool money is not high on his list of concerns. Offering him an extra $300,000 over a team he prefers probably isn’t moving the needle.
deweybelongsinthehall
If you believe like I do that having someone you know on the team who speaks your native language is important, you don’t want to deal Yoshida if he could help get you Sasaki. Buehler is trying to recruit Bregman and Arenado would apparently approve a trade to Boston with Story there. How difficult is it to connect the dots with Yoshida? That said unless you’re inside the room so to speak, it’s all just guesswork to a degree. Such though fits with this blogging site, doesn’t it?
deweybelongsinthehall
Pool, no one knows for sure as most would have waited until a larger deal could be signed.
deweybelongsinthehall
William, I agree on the last point but little else. You still have to do your due diligence and Breslow could have laid the ground work through others when he was in Japan last year. Also, if inferences were made about having Yoshida as a potential teammate, you need to see where he signs if you are considering moving him.
rememberthecoop
You forgot Tucker. He’s definitely in that tier of top performers, especially since he’s not only great with the bat; he’s a defensive stalwart and has value with his legs.
rememberthecoop
OPS+ is flawed.
Rexhudler86
@william. I was just saying things are getting delayed because of him. I’m not a red Sox fan. Didn’t say they were going to land them. It would make sense to tag people who your responding too.
He’s 100 percent going to ask for more pool money especially if he lands with the dodgers or padres since they have the lowest pool money available. Just saying yoshida could be part of a three team trade to offload salary get a player and reallocate money elsewhere. These kinds of trades will be in play for teams that can get players in free agency like the white sox, rockies, a’s for examples and also out on sasaki
Rexhudler86
*teams can’t
Corradoj30
The average prime for a baseball player is ages 27-32. So Devers has just entered his prime. I think talks of his demise are just a tad premature there buddy.
william-2
If I was the Red Sox, the last thing I would want is Sasaki to speaking to Yoshida about the Red Sox. They basically told him he can’t field, and that they are trying to trade him because he clogs up DH. You want that guy chatting it up with Sasaki?
This is all moot. He isn’t going to Boston with so many question marks, and no coherent roster building strategy.
william-2
@Rexhudler86. I don’t usually tag unless it is very specific to a person, and that wasn’t towards you, but more to people that in general think the Sasaki sweeps stakes should hinder anything about any team’s strategy.
Any team that acquires him will be tasked with paying him whatever pool they have in part or whole, league minimum and kicking their worst pitcher off the staff. Easy enough for all 30 teams when you look at the potential talent involved.
Any team that gets him will be paying most or all their pool. No team, unless they feel they have no shot, or feel this is an opportunity to strike quickly on other international players while attention is focused on Sasaki will be doing anything outside waiting to see the results. Most international players are waiting as well.
Sasaki has made it clear the pool money is NOT A ZERO FACTOR, but it is also amongst the least of all factors being considered. This is not a bidding war where the team that hands him $300,000 more in international cap money is the clear winner. The reason is the league minimum attached. So………….
Sasaki will be making the vast majority of his money through endorsements per year, not salary, if he chooses. He is looking to see what the marketing plans are for his first few years as the bulk of income, ease of transition to the U.S. that will be set up, ease of life and support where he picks, clearly defined plans by the team, current and future competitiveness, and economic outlook going forward.
Yoshida to me is a completely different topic. He is not a benefit in dealing with Sasaki for reasons we all know, at least not atm. A Yoshida move is also integral to opening the DH and allowing the Red Sox far more scope in player talent to be available at more positions, and to be able to either move positions internally or open positions to competitive prospects winning roles. I do not think anyone would believe that using a fairly disgruntled player to recruit Sasaki is too appealing, nor do I think it would have a good impression on Sasaki to trade the player that recruited him, because it makes the team better if they do, so they have to pursue it.
william-2
@dewey. The league did their due diligence. All of it. They all scouted him. The Red Sox are one of 30 that can say they put their work in. Good for them, they did what they were supposed to for a player with this kind of talent.
That being said. They were not picked for an interview, but 7 teams that laid down the same groundwork were. My suspicion upon reading more and more about Sasaki, and his approach is that he probably has ALREADY spoken to Yoshida or his agency to get their impression of whether they should be included in the interview process. It is not a secret that the Japanese players are a fairly close-knit group that talk.
Poolhalljunkies
First devers is not out of shape lol the dude is very muscled up..second he played 2024 with 2 bum shoulders and still put up good numbers third he made 12 errors in 2024…are you saying led the league at his position as i know gunnar hendeson made 25 errors in 2024 cruz 29..so maybe he made the most aa a 3b but not even close to leading the league i general
KnicksFanCavsFan
It’s amazing that there are only 5 hitters and 6 pitchers that are 35 or older in the major right now. the game has gotten much younger.
Poolhalljunkies
Sag. Devers literally just turned 28 in october guys typically enter thier prime at 27 how in The world is that old and his wimdow closing you love looking at historical stats based on most player history he should easily sustain current levels of production for 3 years until he enters his 30s
Devlsh
KFCF = Really? That IS amazing.
Wasn’t that the original argument in favor of the DH, that it would allow the older player who could no longer field his position to stick around?
highendtheory
He’s definitely below average defensively but worst 3B in history is quite the exaggeration. That’s probably Mark Reynolds, or maybe Bonilla or Dick Allen or Ty Wigginton.
Anyway, by your own admission, you’re projecting him to fall off in four years, but you want to trade him *now*?
deweybelongsinthehall
William, you could be right as I don’t expect Sasaki to sign in Boston. My original point was that teams are waiting on him to make other moves and his connection is still a possible benefit. The Sox have been talking and other clubs have been talking to them about many different players and once he signs other dominos are likely to fall
Uncle Pedro’s Dancing Kittens
Unfortunately it doesn’t look like they did much of a job attracting Sasaki to Boston. He is probably going to end up in California anyway and had no interest in the east coast. Might be different if you could offer him $100 million.
Sagacity
websoulsurfer – Being 10th on a weak list doesn’t make a player elite, the actual number does.
The top 7 players have elite numbers over 150.
Seager dropped from 159 to 139 so that’s a bad year for him.
Ramirez has been over 150 ONCE in his career but hovers around 140 so he’s borderline elite.
Devers was 126 the year before and has a 126 career number. That’s nowhere near elite. He’s simply above average.
FYI Gunner Henderson won Minor League Player of the year 2 years ago then put up a 125 in his rookie year and then jumped to 159 as he established himself as elite.
Rooker is the only other pretender other than Devers in this list since he’s been around 5 years and put up a 162 in the COVID year then bad numbers peaking at 127 in 2023 and then burst out with a 165. If he repeats it he will pull away from the non-elite Devers and join the elite club.
The top 6 guys are clearly elite.
Just for fun here are the numbers from 2023
1. Ohtani • LAA 185
2. Seager • TEX 174
3. Díaz • TBR 157
4. Tucker • HOU 142
5. Crawford • SEA 133
6. Paredes • TBR 130
7. Robert • CHW 130
8. Rodríguez • SEA 130
9. Casas • BOS 129
10. Rutschman • BAL 128
NOTE CASAS made 9th, I believe that’s better than 10th!!
Also note, how low the scores are. That’s why a 10th or 9th isn’t as significant as the actual number.
The cut-off for an elite season is 150 because it doesn’t happen that often. There were 7 in 2024 and 3 in 2023.
Who has nevers made that number in their career?
EVERY RED SOX PLAYER ON THE ROSTER!!!
Betts made it in 2023 for LA and 2018 for BOS
Arenado made it in 2022
Bregman made it in 2019 and 2018
JD Martinez made it in 2018 for BOS, plus 2017 and 2014
Big Papi made it in 2016, 2013. 2011, 2007, 2006 and 2005
Manny Ramirez made it in 2008, every yr 1999 to 2006
Manny, Papi JD and Betts are ELITE players that played for Boston. Devers having NEVER made this elite list simply is not an elite player, especially when consider the 141 errors in less than 8 seasons and his 126 OPS+ for his career.
He’s an arrogant player who puts himself first before the team and he’s really not good enough to be that arrogant!!
Sagacity
Pool – You are so out of your depths arguing this with me.
First, Henderson played SS and had a .961 fielding percentage at a much harder position. The funny part about that is Devers fielding percentage even with the doctored errors was still below Gunner’s at SS!!!!! hahahaha
Second, comparing different positions has NEVER been in my comments about Devers. I speak only about 3B with regard to Devers and EVERYTHING I write is air tight and above reproach. THEY ARE FACTS. Not my impression of something happening on a field. Whether it’s official errors or misplays, they are documented numbers in Baseball Reference. Arguing them is fruitless on your part.
I don’t want to get into any form of body shaming so I will simply disagree about the perceived shape you see when you look at a guy that thick and say it’s muscle!! hahaha
I guess Cecil Fielder must have had a lot of muscle too or Vlad Guerrero Jr. hahaha
People like him don’t age well and Pujols and Cabrera are prime examples and much, much better players.
deweybelongsinthehall
The Red Sox M.O. right now is to offer $100m knowing $140m offers are out there…
Poolhalljunkies
Sag..thats great and all but i wasnt replying to you..poisoned pen was talking about devers being out of shape and leading the league in errors all of which are very disputable, read more carrfully before attacking me you moron as well as not performing well at the plate…as for YOU i took issue with you calling a 28 year old thats just a dumb comment hes not old..well that and you need new glasses or a cogintive test
Poolhalljunkies
Or are sag and poinsinef pen the same person?? Looks like..what ever happened to your “trollfree” account did they finally ban you there?
'Tang It
No way. Moving him to DH certainly would. His bat is too important
C Yards Jeff
Breslow on the prowl. Devers? Casas? Arenado? Hmm. I do not have an ax to grind here.
That said; sitting on the outside looking in down here in Baltimore, the AL East is shaping up in to beast mode.
Yanks, my Birds and you guys making moves. The Rays being the Rays.
Then there’s that “Land of Misfit Toys” club Toronto as the mystery team. Moral issue in that clubhouse? A disconnect beyween FO, field staff and players? Quite naturally; I don’t want Tony Taters to go there, but wow, the guy shows up to play every game and in happy gratitude mode. Gonna miss him here suiting up for the black and orange.
JoeBrady
“Land of Misfit Toys”
====================
I think that’s a fair description. It feels like they are in Rockies/Angels mode, where they need tank, but don’t want to tank attendance.
'Tang It
The front office just knows their jobs are on the line.
Ltsz2904
The problem with the Sox starts with ownership. DADDY John Henry no longer cares about the team. Money is made from Fenway Park so he is more concerned about the PGA and other endeavors. Pretty clear when Ortiz came out and said they low-balled Soto. NO ONE wanted Buylow’s job & high end F/As don’t want to play here!
good vibes only
4 world series trophies in the past 20 years, a team well poised for future success with awesome prospects and a good big league club and ownership willing to spend ~$200M in payroll year after year.
Yes you have so much to complain about!
Ragnarok
The plight of these poor New Englanders having to watch so many championships from their sports team is just incredible. I don’t know how you can go a year without another title. Truly the rest of the country feels for you deeply.
deweybelongsinthehall
It’s not that. Picture yourself rooting for the Dodgers today who win again in 25 or 26 but then ownership decides to focus on the bigger financial picture like a conglomerate and buys other assets to improve their bottom line. They then divide corporate and fonancial assets that historically were fully allocated to the team with new people in charge and every day decisions no longer being made by a few. While the same couple make the ultimate decisions, looking for that edge, algorism models suggest more time and money should be focused elsewhere because your Fenway product will produce similar amounts regardless of the on field product and higher returns are anticipated with that extra money moved elsewhere within the total company. Now fans that helped create the conglomerate which you did not have until MLB dictated the ownership changes that gave you the club in the first place are supposed to be happy? Had the team not signed Story or made other moves to suggest ownership was trying to thread that needle and win while revamping the farm, maybe we’d be more patient. The constant lies though are what has been driving at least me crazy. Sometimes misdirection is needed to get your price but last year’s full throttle comment is still in our heads at this point. Despite having hope, will the team sign anyone long term again for big money or is Devers it?
Fever Pitch Guy
Rag – Let me guess, you’re incredibly jealous because your team hasn’t won jack and so you come here to a Red Sox article to rag on Sox fans while they are down.
Prove me wrong, who is your team?
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Great post! You and i as diehard Sox fans both know the two main reasons why these are among the darkest days in Red Sox history with plenty of concerns going forward.
The Red Sox front office and manager has repeatedly conducted themselves in an embarrassing manner for the past several years and made many decisions that showed total incompetence.
And the results speak for itself:
2021 was the last winning season
2021 was the only postseason appearance during the past 6 years
6 last place finishes over the past 13 years
Absolutely unacceptable for a Top 3-4 revenue team during that time period.
TrotNixonIsMyHero
I’m clearly a Red Sox fan and I understand the angst and the lack of clarity since Mookie left but Dewey and fever need to lighten up! Others are entitled to their opinion without being trolls and on occasion I definitely feel like mocking both of you as well. The amount of times you are both negative about everything Red Sox is truly ridiculous!
You both started complaining about Breslow from his first day on the job.
Please relax and let’s give Breslow a little bit longer. I for one am grateful for the last 20 years and the joy this current ownership group has given me even if I disagree with a few of their recent decisions.
I’m certainly not going to be a miserable old man shouting at clouds about “everything” they do!
Blueberry
@dewey – You and others can keep crying about Henry, but you really just don’t understand investing and asset allocation. None of the reasons you give are why they haven’t given out a bunch of stupid LT deals that look bad within 3 yrs to make the team terrible in the long term, which would be the outcome of signing either great players for ridiculous money or just above average players for dumb money. The model should be more like the Rays and Brewers and Guardians with big time FAs added every ~3 years. You can whine about Betts, who is really the only miscalculation they made, but company makes a mistake here or there, and I am not even sure they made a mistake. Betts didn’t want to stay in Boston, so I am not sure what you think they should have done to make him want to live in the cold weather and have the intense sports media attention of Boston if he didn’t want it? The rest has been the lack of maturity of Cherington (prospect hoarder) and Bloom (could not make decisions at the trade deadline). Breslow has been great so far, though would have preferred to see Mayer go instead of Teel in the Crochet trade (but I bet the White Sox shot that down due to Montgomery being a similar player in their system to Mayer already). But Breslow knew he needed an ace and preferred a lefty, so got it. Yoshida’s contract is killing his roster construction even more than his wallet. There are only 40 roster spots and 26 active at a time. The 40 man plus NR player pool is much deeper than even a year ago, and I suspect they really see next year as the right time to add a significant pitching contract, if they even need to do that. If they have gotten the deals right so far, they will be developing MLB pitchers the next couple of years. Let’s see where Fitts, Priester, Sandlin, Tolle and others go this year + MLB established Buehler, Giolito, Fullmer and Sandoval as they come online through the year. Maybe you and @FPG are simply wrong about how to build a team?
JoeBrady
Ragnarok
I don’t know how you can go a year without another title.
========================
It’s the newbies. They don’t know what it’s like to struggle, for like 100 years. They’re special and deserve more.
JoeBrady
deweybelongsinthehall
It’s not that. Picture yourself rooting for the Dodgers today who win again in 25 or 26 but then ownership decides to focus on the bigger financial picture
========================
It’s more than that. After 2019, we were 1st in payroll, last in farm ratings, and only had 84 wins. There was nowhere to go but down.
We’ve also ranked 8.6 in payroll since 2019, so it is not like we aren’t spending. And we are .500 since then, so it isn’t like we’ve been a bad team.
For comparison purposes, look at teams like TO and LAA. Do you think they are magically going to become WS contenders any time soon?
Fever Pitch Guy
Trot – I have a very easy test for you.
You claim I “started complaining about Breslow from his first day on the job”.
That is 100% crap! I was very happy they ended up with him, compared to some of the other awful candidates such as Gabe Krapler.
My stance all along has been:
1) He’s a rookie, he will need time to gain knowledge and experience
2) He’s highly intelligent and a genuinely nice guy
3) He doesn’t have nearly the clout yet that other experienced CBO’s have.
4) He has a limited budget to work with
Only a freakin’ IDIOT would think this is a Breslow issue. It’s NOT Breslow, it’s John Henry and Sam Kennedy and Alex Cora and a bunch of others.
So here’s the test, I provide links to prove I supported Breslow and you post a public apology and promise to never again make false accusations against me.
We have a deal?
I’m certainly not going to be an idiotic immature young kid complaining about people who “dare” to show unhappiness with the Red Sox incompetence and arrogance.
You want to wear rose-colored glasses? Great! Just don’t you even try to force them on others, or mock Red Sox fans for their justifiable unhappiness … because THAT is indeed what a troll does.
It’s a really easy concept, pal. You don’t criticize me for my periodic skepticism, and I don’t criticize you for your irrational optimism. Got it?
deweybelongsinthehall
Trot, I did not complain about Breslow from day one. My gripe has always been Henry and that Bloom should have been allowed to continue until his draft picks succeeded or busted. His only fail in my book and it’s huge is the pitching. Yey he was hampered by prior payroll obligations and Henry.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – That’s exactly what I thought, but I didn’t want to speak for you.
I have zero patience for people who are so quick to make false accusations against others. Either they are very stupid or they are liars who should be held accountable.
all in the suit that you wear
LOL! Fever Pitch Guy will make things up to bash the Red Sox, but demands accuracy from others.
deweybelongsinthehall
Blueberry, we can agree to disagree. A big market club will make mistakes as will small market teams. As a big market team, Boston understood or so it seemed that they could absorb bad contracts because winning championships produces extra income directly and indirectly. You named Milwaukee and Tampa, one which has never one and the other last did I believe over forty years ago. I love those clubs for what they do but Boston should be modifying their model with their extra resources, not simply try to emulate it.
deweybelongsinthehall
Joe, why compare to a team that has never won or another that has the worst management structure. I recall others saying after 18 “wait until 20” but no one expected this. It’s obvious now why DD left.
deweybelongsinthehall
I’m laughing as it’s a distraction as I wait for a call from my back doctor on setting up another epidural. Why else am I up at 2 am?
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Excellent post, I totally agree!
Yes Dave was thoroughly disgusted with the behavior of ownership and the direction they were taking the team. That’s why he left. You just don’t see this nonsense with most other clubs, especially the large market clubs.
Leaking that you offered Soto over $700M when you actually offered him only $600M? Every time we think they can’t stoop any lower, they always manage to anyways.
fenwayfrank
I muted him a long time ago.
MLB-1971
Allin – Agreed 100%!
Claydagoat
He’s the most obvious troll. It’s amazing people go back and forth with him, He’s not even entertaining.
jmi1950
For several yrs I posted “ignore him he’s a troll”, but with KD17 now Sag they would bait the discussion with their trolling. So now I just ignore them.
Claydagoat
Oh, yeah, it’s way better without reading their tripe.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever, they let everyone know they bought a seat at the big boys Soto table knowing full well the publicity was worth the cost. Until they spend again, how are we to believe they wont continue to eat at the kids table?
JoeBrady
It’s obvious now why DD left.
===================
DD got fired for the reasons I stated-#1 in payroll, #30 in farm, and only 84 wins. That combination is as bad as it gets.
But more importantly, Henry probably preferred a TB type to rebuild.
JoeBrady
100x better. Without him and KD, RS fans can have an adult conversation.
Blueberry
@Dewey, I agree with you about modifying it. The question is how often can you add a 5-15 yr contracts at say $25M+ per year? I think to have enough $ to keep your home grown guys via extensions, it should not be that often that a big FA gets added. But I agree you can sign one big deal every few years and that is a big deal vs MIL trading Hader and then Burnes, etc. But we should emulate the development part of the Rays/Brewers/Guards and also the part where they leave some room to bring up prospects to let them try to succeed in MLB and not block every position with overpaid vets.
Sagacity
Trot – Didn’t you say that about Bloom too. How’d that turn out?
MLB-1971
Joe – Yes, KD was putrid !!!!
deweybelongsinthehall
Joe, believe what you want but DD had Tennessee in his plans and is as aggressive as ever in Philly. There is no way his leaving was a one way ticket out the door.
deweybelongsinthehall
Blue, Bloom was working on it and to show Sox how Sox ownership operates, they rid themselves of Bloom before having a replacement. They were lucky to ink Breslow as no one else wanted the job. What does that really say?
Sagacity
Joe – Talk baseball not trash gutless weasel.
DD is a HOF GM who got fired because he refused to put up with the ownership BS about not signing Mookie because they made racist comments that he objected to related to his team mate Price in the Price/Eckersley scandal. The racists followed up the firing with the giveaway of their two best black players. Those are the facts not you money crap. Dombrowski stayed under the CAP in building his team he simply refused to take responsibility for past mistakes. See he could do that because this wasn’t his first rodeo like Bloom and Breslow.
Joe, you are simply a liar. Have been for years. Facts irritate you because they refute your idiotic comments.
The Farm System, Mr. Liar, produced Duran and Casas shortly after he was gone because he was great at picking talent, he was great at trading crap players for things he needed and to suggest 84 wins after three unprecedented Division Titles and a RING is simply IGNORANT and a LIE. 84 wins before they changed the playoff format was good but not quite good enough. It was much better than the off years under the previous GMs.
You are such a LIAR. You are an adult. Grow up and speak the truth in your comments you pampas hind quarters.
Sagacity
MLB-1971 – WOW I heard about you. The know nothing guy that takes shots because like Joe, you have no clue about the game you want to contribute to in your comments.
Loser’s take cheap shots at other people for disagreeing with you. KD simply pointed out the facts as to why you were so horribly inaccurate in your opinions. Just like Joe, you couldn’t handle being challenged when you wrote BS.
The spirit of KD lives on in many, many people on this site.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – You are 100% correct! Dombrowski is a HOF’er with an impeccable track record who did an amazing job in Boston.
It was Cora’s horrendous decision to disregard ST and not try to win April/May games that caused the team to dig themselves such a huge hole that it was impossible to dig out of. Cora is the reason John Henry went apeshit about missing the playoffs with the highest payroll in MLB.
And also, Dombrowski and Henry go way back to their days in Miami. John Henry knows Dave is one of the best, he just wanted Dave to begin operating like the Rays and Dave rightfully said he’s outta there.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Thank you for bringing the FACTS!!!
The newbies forget, an embarrassing number of people rejected interview requests for Bloom’s job. Even Raquel, a longtime Sox executive, refused the promotion.
The ONLY reason Breslow took the job is because he liked the area when he pitched there, and he needed to gain the experience.
If Sox ownership doesn’t change their ways, I strongly believe when Breslow’s contract is up he will leave because then he will have the experience to explore many opportunities …. just like Bloom did with the Cardinals.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – So true!!
My understanding is Ortiz got chastised by the front office for revealing the Red Sox offered only $600M to Soto. Should be interesting Saturday at FSG Fest, although obviously nothing will be made public. I’m sure it was just a simple slip of the tongue by Ortiz when he revealed the intentionally leaked reports of “over $700M” were a lie.
It’s just so embarrassing how the Red Sox conduct themselves these days, you don’t hear about this nonsense with the Dodgers or Yankees etc.
Fever Pitch Guy
good – Your handle is an oxymoron, don’t ya think? Mocking the Red Sox fanbase during one of the darkest periods in Red Sox history, and doing it under a Red Sox article no less?
Personally I hate the word “troll” and never call anyone that, but if others view you as one I can certainly understand why.
Blueberry
@FPG – you are a “troll” 100%. And I am pretty sure the gap between 1918 to 2004 was a darker period in Red Sox history. They called it a curse for a reason.
Fever Pitch Guy
Blue – That didn’t take long for you to out yourself under your latest account.
Muted!
good vibes only
Calm down homie, everything’s going to be ok!
Joemo
Good – yes, it was a great run until 2018, but what have they done for us lately? 3 last place finishes since 2020. One playoff appearance. A farm system barren of top pitching prospects and a refusal to sign an actual ace (Crochet has one good half season, and was acquired via trades after the Sox were massively outbid on Fried).
Just because the rebuild might eventually work out, doesn’t mean that ownership should get off scot-free for their massive mistakes these past 6 years.
In recent years, Fenway Sports Group has not cared about bringing a championship to the team that’s plays at their namesake. They cared about using that team to fund other business ventures.
DroppedThirdStrike
I agree, let’s punish ownership for the mistakes of the past 6 years. How do we do that?
good vibes only
Your ownership group is by no means perfect but they are obviously trying to improve the team this offseason. Crochet is a good add and I don’t think they are done adding. Definitely have plenty of trade chips if they can’t sign them. I’m interested to see what Richard Fitts does this year.
Could be worse: ya’ll could have the Mariners ownership who have literally done nothing. Best of luck to you guys this year!
deweybelongsinthehall
Because the fan base is forcing changes like with the Devers overpay. NESN ratings are lower and they need the tourists and visitors to fill Fenway, something not previously needed.
Fever Pitch Guy
good – The Red Sox haven’t improved the catching depth, in fact they weakened it.
They haven’t improved the bullpen, they’ve weakened it. I like Chapman, but him and Wilson are not as good as Jansen and Martin.
And if Pivetta continues to pitch effectively while staying healthy, while Buehler & Crochet are injured or perform poorly, then the rotation would also be worse. Now I’m NOT making any predictions, I’m just pointing out the very real possibility.
I do agree with you that there’s still time to make improvements, especially with the bullpen. The health and performance of Whitlock and Hendriks is obviously a concern, and Slaten is due for a bit of regression.
I also agree Fitts should get an opportunity to prove himself, I’m bullish on him. He was impressive last year and he’s got a great mental makeup.
Also I do sympathize with you on the Seattle situation, the Mariners have great fans who deserve better. Unfortunately their ownership is almost as greedy as Red Sox ownership.
Best of luck to your team as well.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Excllent post!! So very true, NESN ratings have really crashed the past few years and the Sox haven’t had this much difficulty selling tickets in ages.
Did you know those attending this Saturday’s FSG Fest will be receiving FREE REGULAR SEASON GAME TICKETS.
How embarrassing!!!
178iq
Soto only makes sense in a line up with Judge, Harper or Showtime. San Diego was also a good fit with 2 bats and only when Tatis & Machado were both healthy and hitting. Teams like the Sox and NYY bid up Soto knowing full well Cohen would out bid any team. The Mets need to sell out every home game. Unfortunately the lineup isn’t primed for Soto. Even if they sign Alonso he’s not the bat in a line up like AJ or Harper that makes Soto, Soto. Soto’s numbers will decline on the Mets unless they make an AJ appear. His walks and singles will go up. K’s will likely go down with the increase in BB’s and slugging will decline with all the singles. Also ,a LOT of his HR’s last year are long singles, because he can’t run and some more doubles which may help his slugging and of course many more flyball outs in City Field.
Question? What happens to Verdooki this year? Marlins?
sgord03
The Angels would be a nice final destination to watch your career completely unravel..
YankeesBleacherCreature
If Breslow has insisted Devers stays at 3B and Casas isn’t on the trading block, it seems like a poor use of resources to trade for Arenado.
all in the suit that you wear
I think they should keep Casas. It looks like the Red Sox were only willing to trade Casas for pitching. Their rotation is done, so I think they will likely keep Casas. I think it would be better to trade Yoshida and move Devers to DH. That opens up 3B for Arenado or Bregman. However, the Red Sox would need to eat $10+M of Yoshida’s salary in order to trade him. So, I doubt this happens.
YankeesBleacherCreature
That’s easier said than done. Jeter didn’t move for ARod. Devers is the superior hitter and has his prime years ahead of him on a career contract.
Sagacity
Yankee – Devers is a player who is responsible for offense AND defense. When you pair both skills, Devers sucks compared to Arenado. He may have a slight edge on offense but Arenado has played 12 years with 2400 additional total chances and has less errors and score keeper recently have started cheating for Devers to give the illusion he is improving. Go to Baseball Reference, Devers misplays at least 50 balls a year and used to get credit for errors in the 20s and how he’s suddenly only getting credit for 14 or so despite the misplays not dropping. A misplay is defined as a ball hit to Devers that he is unsuccessful getting an out and they don’t give an errors so it’s considered a hit because the ball was hit too hard or right to him or so many other rationalizations for why he missed a ball Arenado would have caught.
FYI…. AROD should have been the SS he was much better than Jeter. Jeter should have gone to 2B with his weak arm, limited range and his ability to turn a double play quickly.
deweybelongsinthehall
You can never have enough pitching and they are not done. Due to injury history, young players who still have to develop (and may not) and the short term desks they’ve made, Casas could be dealt but again only for controllable assets, Once Sasaki signs, I believe moves will be made that can transform the club to a real team. Right now they still are comprised of assets but not a true team. A righty bat and improved infield defense are still in my view needed.
all in the suit that you wear
Per Sean McAdam on X:
“Source: Red Sox last/best on Soto was around $700 million for 15 years.”
x.com/Sean_McAdam/status/1865960179847561236
PoisonedPens
Casas doesn’t have the value on the market that Red Sox fans think he has, yet, until he can put together a full season beginning to end.
Cooperdooper7
Where is Campbell going to play if they Bring in Arenado or Bregman? What about Mayer?
With that said I would prefer Arenado at 3 years versus Bregman at 6 years.
Also, the Sox should be offering Yoshida and maybe a mid level prospect to Arizona for Jordon Montgomery. D-Backs signed Burnes so they need to move away from the 25 mill they are paying Montgomery although it is only for 1 more year… they can save 7 mill versus the difference of Yoshida’s 18 mill…. and they get their DH…. (They lost Joc Peterson and Grichuk who were their DH last year.
william-2
2nd is the most logical place based on current roster. The only blocker is Grissom who will be fighting for the job. I mentioned several times I felt management hoped Grissom could win that job.
Going forward, depending on moves, Campbell should be competing for 3rd or 2nd. Mayers is the clear shortstop going forward. Story has the flexibility to play either third or 2nd at a high level. So, Campbell will be playing one of those based on need.
Devlsh
They ‘save’ 7 mill but take on the additional $18 mill for 26′ and 27″ for a bat only type with health questions.
Bruin1012
William- while Campbell can play on the left side of the infield on a temporary basis he doesn’t have the arm for third imo. He’s best suited for 2nd or the outfield probably left. He could also be a super utility that plays nearly everyday in different positions as long as he hits.
william-2
I agree with you. My posts are simply pointing out the options to allow him to compete for a starting position based on the roster, and rumored moves.
I prefer him at second also, but as an example a trade of Yoshida means the option of moving Devers to DH, and either acquiring a third baseman or opening the position to competition. If it’s competition that would mean a shift of someone already on the roster to third, or a prospect taking the role. The prospect would be Campbell. If Grissom earns the job at 2nd and he isn’t handed the job (which the Sox hope) Campbells option is third. Grissom failing means Campbell gets his shot. There are other examples based on a Casas trade, etc.
Bruin1012
William my belief is based on how the last couple weeks went last season that Kristian Campbell can use at least a month or two in AAA. He really did come out of nowhere. Based on the roster right now I think you give Grissom the first crack at 2nd out of spring training if he holds down that position then great you can always call Campbell up to be the super utility guy and give guys a rest probably at any position other then catcher and of course pitcher. If Grissom falters then you can call Campbell up and let him play probably his best position.
Fever Pitch Guy
YBC – Exactly! That’s the problem with habitual liars like the Red Sox, they can’t stop contradicting themselves.
They say one thing publicly to appease the fanbase and the players, then they intentionally leak contradictory information with specific targets in mind. And it’s not just the offseason they do that, the past 3 trade deadlines they said “we are GFIN” …. but ended up acquiring nobody of significance.
Case in point: They want teams to know Casas is available, but they also want Casas and the fanbase to believe he’s not.
Another case in point: They want Devers to believe he’s not being moved, but they continue to leak “interest” in Bregman and Arenado which makes zero sense with the pending middle infield logjam coming.
And oh yeah, remember the “reports” about the Red Sox offering Soto more than $700M? Last week Ortiz admitted their final offer was only $600M.
This is what the Red Sox organization is in 2025, and this is why so many players and executives and agents avoid the Red Sox like the plague.
william-2
Agreed, but no one really knows what to believe anymore from the brass, and everyone on planet earth knows shedding Yoshida is a solution to more than one problem with the team.
Fever Pitch Guy
william – I think there’s a lot more at play with Yoshida.
He has yet to show he’s recovered from surgery and is ready to play, that makes him virtually untradeable and he’s too good a hitter to be a DFA.
Moving Devers right now to DH would be a shocking move.
Treating Yoshida with disrespect will make it even harder for the Sox to sign Roki and other Japanese players going forward. That is a large market to shut off.
Even if they replace Yoshida at DH with Casas, there’s risk involved in throwing Devers to 1B.
With all the Casas trade talk, I think it’s more likely they pick up another 1B. I’ve been saying for a year Casas is not well liked in the clubhouse and is considered to be difficult to manage/coach. Of course I was attacked by some here for simply relaying facts, but none of that mattered to me …. I still want him on the team.
The big question is, will he be able to fully recover from the rib injury or will it continue to impact his swing and cause him to take a lot more pitches than he should? Time will tell.
dasit
if devers truly has no interest in moving off third base their hands are tied. doesn’t make sense to sign bregman and move him to second and there’s nowhere to put arenado unless they trade casas. assume they are working hard to unload yoshida and clear up space at dh. i’m curious what will happen if anthony goes apeshit in spring training and forces the issue. i could see them packaging yoshida and abreu together any teams who would be a good fit?
YankeesBleacherCreature
No reason for Arenado to loudly protest if he ends up sticking with the Cards after he vetoed a trade to the Astros. His checks still cash.
websoulsurfer
If Devers has no interest in moving off 3B when it would make the team better, Breslow either says you ARE playing DH or trades him.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Lol. That’s not how reality actually works versus our armchair GM world.
websoulsurfer
Actually, it is. Devers is not a leader on that Red Sox team. Its not like he was the long time Captain of the Yankees. He either moves or he gets moved in a trade.
Dickiesox
But Devers has leverage in that no team is interested in taking on his bloated contract.
Joemo
Web – Devers moving off of 3B makes the team better defensively, but there is a significant decrease offensively. So overall would it make the team better? That’s not so clear.
Arenado was league average by OPS+ (101) while Devers was significantly better (139) playing through the shoulder issue.
Could the money and/or prospects be used elsewhere (bullpen, SP, C) and have more impact? I think so.
Jaa1968
Yoshida, Cutter Crawford package would work
Fever Pitch Guy
dasit – One thing people don’t realize ….when Devers and his agent negotiated the massive contract extension – and it wasn’t that long ago – they absolutely HAD TO have discussed the timing of his eventual move off 3B.
That’s probably why his agent insisted Devers is not moving off 3B this year, because the Red Sox likely promised they “were committed to keeping him at 3B for X number of years”.
Of course we all know how often the Red Sox lie.
ramon garciaparra
Not mentioned is Arenado is 33 and declining considerably at the plate in the last two years. This fits the profile of an Angels pickup, not Boston. Devers is 28 and the leader of the team. Sox aren’t paying him $30 million a year to be an unhappy DH
BITA
Is Devers actually the leader or is he just really well paid?
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
I wouldn’t say he’s a leader, mookie betts was a leader in Boston
I don’t even know if devers can speak English since I’ve never heard him say a word in English so maybe he’s a leader for the Dominican players on the Red Sox
Jaa1968
Mookie wanted to be a free agent! He was no leader
Fever Pitch Guy
sad – Devers did try to act like a leader for a while, he was speaking up on behalf of the team because he has by far the longest tenure and of course is the team’s biggest star with the biggest contract.
All the players greatly respect him and he leads by example, but he’s not a true leader like an Ortiz or Pedroia.
Story might have been a team leader if he wasn’t injured so often. Duran and Ref are somewhat leaders as well.
chemfinancing
You ask the questions
JoeBrady
I’d say well-paid. Too many fans think of good players or older players as leaders. I was in my 60s before the leadership light just barely clicked on.
all in the suit that you wear
Arenado looks cooked. From Red Sox Stats on X:
Arenado’s quality of contract ranked in the 9th percentile of MLB last year. Of the players with >50 batted balls on the Red Sox in 2024, Arenado would have ranked 18th of 19, ahead of Danny Jansen.
x.com/redsoxstats/status/1876101970383245702?ref_s…
BITA
I watched him all last year. He’s not “cooked” he just constantly tried to do too much at the plate. He forgot how to work a count he was hacking at everything.
all in the suit that you wear
So, he’s not cooked, but he’s a moron?
Sagacity
All – Show some respect for the greatest 3B in history. In your lifetime, you’ll never be close to as good at anything as he was at playing 3B in the MLB.
all in the suit that you wear
I hope he’s okay.
DroppedThirdStrike
Mike Schmidt?
BITA
I wouldn’t use the word moron but he’s not a smart hitter. He’s a smart fielder but he takes a lot of bad at bats.
DroppedThirdStrike
That’s often the case when guys can’t catch up to the fastball anymore. They have to guess and overcommit to a pitch. Then that makes it extremely difficult to slow the bat down when the fastball doesn’t come. The increased gap between what they overcommit to and what they have trouble adjusting to puts the offense in decline.
Tigers3232
@Joel He did not try and do to much, if his K rate spiked hat would be indicative of an all or nothing swing. His K rate went down. Quit actually like you know the sport, you know how tonread sports news. You know how to look at stats, but you don’t entirely know what they mean.
JoeBrady
He’s not “cooked”
======================
He was injured as well. The casuals forget that he was an AS and #13 in MVP voting. For his first 100 games, he had a .981 OPS. Soto finished with a .989 and Vlad finished with a .959 for comparison purposes.
eatonculo
He worked all winter to become a more complete hitter, hitting to all fields. In the process, he lost his way. He lost his ability to pull the ball – which is his bread-and-butter power swing.
I like the word “moron” more than BITA, but he’s definitely a constant tinkerer. He needs a good hitting coach to get him back on the right path.
I would be much more concerned about that than his age.
chemfinancing
He is simply one of the most nervous hitters at the plate (just like u at work)
deweybelongsinthehall
Brooks Robinson with the glove was the best I ever saw and I was young then so I probably didn’t see his best.
vinc3nt3
Graig Nettles was a human vacuum cleaner at third base too. Verrry underrated.
deweybelongsinthehall
Nettles was the best I. the game once Robinson and Aurelio Rodriguez retired. His 78 WS was legendary. As a Sox fan though, I hated him for the Bill Lee incident. Not that he knew Mickey Rivers was going to sucker punch him as he had his arms pinned.
YankeesBleacherCreature
His avg exit velo, barrel %, and hard hit % all took a nosedive last season.
Sagacity
Yankee – So this is why fake metrics should be banned.
His batting average ROSE from .266 to .272. Do any metrics people understand the insignificance of the drivel that is produced from meaningless numbers like the ones you are quoting?
Results matter not simulated drop-offs that are improperly measured.
It’s kinda like the fools who wrote his defense fell off despite him raising his fielding percentage. It’s TOTAL BS.
The reason he didn’t win the GG was because another player got a lot better and passed him. That’s NOT a negative for Arenado it’s a big positive to his competition on defense.
There simply no undoing propaganda that has been invested in by a group of fans that simply don’t understand what’s real in the game of baseball. I wish you guys would just go back in the basement and play your simulated games and talk amongst yourselves about fictional concepts like WAR and all the other fake estimates that don’t reflect reality.
DroppedThirdStrike
He’s in decline. That’s not in dispute. The sabermetric numbers help explain why and how much.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Duly noted respectfully.
Ragnarok
Oh man. Fielding percentage too…….
He got 8 more hits in 23 more abs. Hit 10 less home runs and 5 less doubles and triples. But you’re applauding his improved BA from .266 to .272?
stevie ice
This comment rocks
Ragnarok
@sagacity
I have a team for you though. The Colorado Rockies still value players the way you like it!
BBB
If you only want to talk results, what about his HR dropping from 26 to 16, his SLG from .459 to .394 and his RBI from 93 to 71? Or are those fake metrics too?
websoulsurfer
Samuel, even a someone completely ignorant of baseball knows that an XBH is worth more than a single. Why don’t you?
Arenado hit 30% less XBH. The 8 more singles he hit does not make up for the 15 doubles, triples and especially home runs he didn’t hit even though he had 23 more PA.
Fielding percentage is garbage, much like your opinion. It is also opinion, not a stat based on facts. His range has fallen from the 99th percentile to the 95th. His arm strength from the 49th to the 41st.
Samuel, maybe you should go back to reading your 19th century box scores and leave the discussion of modern baseball to those that actually understand it. That obviously isn’t you..
ThatsIT?
Just say you don’t understand the metrics and are not smart enough to understand them. How mad does it make you mlb teams could find a guy with a degree in analytics from an ivy league school who has never watched baseball and they would hire them over you 100 times over?
But you keep citing dinosaur stats that nobody intelligent uses anymore
YankeesBleacherCreature
Oh Sagacity is @Samuel! I knew that wacky rhetoric sounded familiar.
acell10
No Saga is KD17 not samuel.
YankeesBleacherCreature
@acell They’re both interchangeable lol
JoeBrady
Not even close. KD never makes a comment other than to bash the RS. Samuel comments on every team.
websoulsurfer
If they don’t say what they mean by quality of contact, I ignore them.
Statcast has a Batting Run Value stat with a complete methodology available and he ranked 11th in MLB and in the 60th percentile. Better than average. That gibes with his 101 OPS+ and 102 wRC+.
AK sox fan
Yes Devers is paid like a leader, but by no means is he a leader. He always had real leaders playing with him to lean on and they are gone,
azcm2511
leader in contract size, thats about it.
Fever Pitch Guy
ramon – Are you kidding me? Haha! Arenado TOTALLY fits the profile of a Red Sox acquisition!
It’s what they love, players who are injured or coming off injury or coming off dreadful consecutive years.
The list is ginormous!
Story
Paxton
Hill
Giolito
Buehler
Sandoval
Mondesi
Hendriks
Robles
Ramirez
So many more!
BITA
I don’t see an Arenado to the Red Sox deal happening. It doesn’t sound like Devers wants to move off of 3b. And the Cardinals really don’t need Casas or Yoshida. It would have to be a 3 team deal of some sort. I think Arenado would like it in Boston and accept a trade there but Devers not wanting to change positions is a problem.
Sagacity
BITA – The story mentioned that Devers’ agent said no to moving. Since when does an agent have the authority to tell the team what they can and can’t do? If he doesn’t like it, too bad!!!! WOW!!!
Somebody needs to remind Devers and his agent that this is a team sport and EVERYONE matters not just ONE EGOMANIAC!!!! How can you not hate this guy for being so selfish. He’s everything you don’t want your kid to grow up to be. He’s an embarrassment to the organization and baseball but apparently we collect those type of people, we have Cora.
BITA
I agree it’s a bit of a lame move on Devers and the agents part but he’s signed for the next decade they need to keep him happy. From everything I have read he needs to move to 1b maybe they can get him to do that.
chemfinancing
Cards are going to get a box of nails for nado
BITA
You are running around saying stupid things champ.
chemfinancing
Topic of ur wife
Lindor's Bodyguard
Ah, the Gaslighter in Chief.
Clown take bro.
chemfinancing
U like the Mets bro
BITA
I happened to check trade simulator and it happened to allow access to both the Red Sox and Mariners for free
Casas
Yoshida
Fitts
For
Castillo
Lower level prospect
Seattle saves some money and adds 2 bats in the process. Red Sox improve the rotation and get rid of 2 lefties to help balance their lineup out and lessen the outfield logjam.
all in the suit that you wear
How much money would Seattle save?
BITA
About 6 million. And they would fill 2 holes in their lineup. They still might want to grab a back end starter and a 3b but Casas and Yoshida would really help their offense.
chemfinancing
Ya right
websoulsurfer
BTV is ridiculously stupid. When they said that Grisham was worth more in trade than Judge I was convinced that even looking at that site showed major lack of knowledge of baseball.
BITA
Judge has a massive contract that was signed as a free agent. Why do you think he would have any kind of real trade value? Even after his MVP season he still doesn’t have much trade value if any.
Ragnarok
BTV doesn’t take into scarcity. Judge doesn’t have a ton of trade value because of his contract but he’d certainly fetch a solid return if the Yanks shopped him today.
I don’t know any model that’s going to account for that though. Doesn’t really matter because he won’t be going anywhere.
BITA
Who the heck could afford to take on Judges contract today right now?
Judge got free agent money. His contract is market rate. Not good or bad it’s neutral.
Tigers3232
@Joel Because stars drive the league. Judge is one of the biggest stars in the business which is MLB. Key word business not sport…
websoulsurfer
Joel, none of what you said matters. BTV is used only by the braindead who don’t actually know what a player’s value is.
Any team in baseball would have given up their best prospects to trade for Judge. How do I know? The Yankees gave him $40 million per year and he put up a season that provided more than $50 million in surplus value.
I would try to explain that Judge was coming off a 10.5 WAR season that gave him more than $50 million in surplus value while Grisham had a 2.5 WAR season that gave him less than $20 million in surplus value, but you will just make up some garbage to try to defend the stupidity of using BTV.
If you want to continue to do stupid things, then by all means continue to use that site. Just know that every time that you even mention it, anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of baseball rolls their eyes and says there goes some idiot using that complete moronic site again.
JoeBrady
That’s ridiculous. To me, it is like looking at bWAR or minor league rankings. They don’t tell you the whole story, but it is a quick reference for trade values.
BITA
Ok you have been muted webbie. I don’t need to talk to you.
BITA
What whole story?
Judge signed a free agent market rate contract. If he was worth more he would have got more. He’s signed until he’s what 40 years old? That contract will go south at some point but now it looks good because he hasn’t started declining yet.
websoulsurfer
$50 million surplus value = a LARGE return.
websoulsurfer
Joel, do you ever get anything right? I was correct in saying that surplus value would go right over your little pinhead.
websoulsurfer
Apparently not since I can still respond to you. you can’t even get that simple task right let alone understand trade value.
Bruin1012
The Red Sox have six starters right now they don’t need to add Luis Castillo and certainly not at the cost of Casas.
Luis Castillo is likely in his decline phase get him outside of Seattle and he’s more than a run worse. He used to be a heavy ground ball pitcher but since going to Seattle he’s become a heavy fly ball pitcher. Maybe it’s just pitch mix but I’m not willing to take that chance his fastball velocity is on a steady decline not to mention he has a full no trade. Why would he go from a park that will help him to one, that in all likelihood, expose his diminishing stuff?
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – Probably nobody here realizes this, but FSG Fest is this Saturday and Casas is scheduled to attend. People are taking bets on whether he says something snarky in response to expected questions about all the trade rumours. That should be very interesting as we all know he tends to say things he shouldn’t.
BTW – Anthony, Campbell, Dobbins, Garcia, Mayer, Narvaez, Perales and Sandlin will also be there.
Rsox
Double edged sword in this article suggesting that the Sox might want to trade Casas first, as not to lose leverage towards the potential return. However, if they trade Casas first and can’t close a deal for Arenado are they forced to pivot to Bregman? If Bregman comes off the market then what? Alonso to play 1B? Another go around of the Dom Smith’s and Garrett Cooper’s like when Casas was injured last season?
Make the big play first, then worry about trading Casas/eating Yoshida’s contract if it comes to it
BITA
Arenado has a limited market because of his NTC. I think they can know if they are going to close the deal before they actually do it.
Rsox
It’s two sides of the same coin though. You worry about losing leverage on a potential Casas return by trading him first you simultaneously lose leverage with the Cardinals on what you may have to give up to get Arenado.
The Cardinals are by no means obligated to trade Arenado and are even less obligated to do so for a minimal return. Unless Mozeliak gifts him to the Sox the price goes up the moment a Casas trade hits the public
BITA
My point is i don’t think the Cardinals are going to play leverage games in a scenario like this. If they agree to a trade with the Red Sox they aren’t going to back out of it or try to get more from the Red Sox.
Sagacity
BITA – Ignore the child, he obviously has issues.
I still say the best solution to a guy whose agent says he won’t move off 3B despite being the worse in history is to trade him to St. Louis for Arenado. That solves the DH issue for Yoshida, the team defense jumps from bottom two to top 10, Arenado’s contract only lasts three years through 2027 and it’s cash flow is only $52 Million while the AAV puts the cost versus CAP at $76.5Million. Sure we can throw in a few players to help even out the deal like Abreu and Hamilton.(a GGer and a base stealer).
I’m not sure any front office would want to put up with such an arrogant ball player as Devers but it’s worth the try. Anything to put him in his place for putting himself before the team.
BITA
Haha the Cardinals don’t need that contract man.
Tigers3232
Haha You are acting like you know baseball again Joel. HAHA!!!
Rsox
Interesting that you call me a child yet suggest the Cardinals, a team looking to dump salary take on a $300 million dollar contract.
There is nothing that i am saying that is “childish”
Fever Pitch Guy
Rsox – Excellent point, this is a situation where a 3-way would work to avoid the loss of leverage.
The bigger concern to me is how all of these rumours between Casas, Yoshida, Devers and Abreu will play out in the clubhouse. If Casas and/or Devers turn sour, it could be quite disruptive to the team.
Rsox
As long as they don’t ask Kevin Millar who he’d rather have they should be ok…
Fever Pitch Guy
Rsox – OMG that is EXACTLY what I thought of when I wrote my prior post!! It’s still fresh in my mind after watching the 2004 Red Sox documentary on Netflix.
That’s one of the reasons why I never was a huge fan of Millar back then, and I was a big fan of Nomar.
Rsox
That is one of the few documentaries that i actually wish was longer
Fever Pitch Guy
Rsox – Yeah definitely could have been longer. I never had Netflix before, but signed up just for that documentary.
And I’m keeping it to watch the 2024 documentary, which will begin being previewed this Saturday at FSG Fest.
chemfinancing
Did u just fart dude? Little dude
jeremyr
The Red Sox could always get Arenado because the Cardinals are desperate to move him. The only question is how much salary gets picked up by the Cardinals.
websoulsurfer
Dever’s agent has no say whatsoever where his client plays. If Devers is such a poor team player that he won’t move to make the team better, trade his sorry behind. Its not like he has an NTC.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Players always have a say especially one that is the team leader and face of the franchise. To brand him as a poor team player is terrible optics. Good luck in the future trying to sign a superstar player if that’s how they treat one of their own.
Sagacity
Yankee – ONE – Devers is no team leader. He carries an albatross contract, a negative attitude toward the best interest of the team and he’s been coddled by Boston since age 14. This is the direct result of that coddling, we have a spoiled brat that sucks on defense and will be obsolete on offense by 32.
He’s no face of the franchise either. Mookie was and he hasn’t been replaced yet. Sounds like Anthony is the club’s choice for next up but I think it should be Campbell the Minor League Player of the Year. Kinda like Gunner Henderson and Mike Trout in past years.
Seriously you think the front office should be worried about their reputation after they gave away their top black players, they gave away their Cy Young quality pitcher, they crapped on Benny, Bogey, JD and most of the 2018 team after they won them a championship. Are you familiar at all with this organization. Getting rid of Devers might be a promotional action to improve the quality of the program if they include Cora in the action.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I have one question: Why do you still root for Red Sox?
Sagacity
websoulsurfer – I just wrote the same thing. Sorry I didn’t see your comment. In enrages me that he’s so arrogant and self centered. And for his agent to speak out like that, I say trade him for Arenado. He’s worth far less than Arenado and Arenado has a favorable contract so lets throw in some over rated prospects and call it a deal!!!
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Sagacity- with all due respect, I don’t think the Red Sox are good for your blood pressure. I would try some deep breathing meditation and perhaps tune out anything Red Sox-related until the All-Star Game. I can sense the tension pulsing thru cyberspace from your keyboard to my Android screen. (P.S. I have my own angst to deal with regarding the Mariners, so I feel your pain.)
ThatsIT?
The cards aren’t trading Arenado for devers you dolt. The whole purpose of trading arenado is to shed salary moron. I’ve had to read you type the same nonsense over and over again it’s not happening. Maybe in your alternative universe but not real life. Just shut up you have no idea what you talking about.
HotDogWater
I don’t know how you can watch baseball in the year 2025 and think the Red Sox would move a guy on a $300 million contract to first or DH. It is absolutely insane that this ridiculous idea keeps getting thrown out there. You might as well suggest Casas play CF.
all in the suit that you wear
Devers has been missing games due to ailing shoulders. I’m not sure what is causing the problems, but it might save his shoulders to move him to DH. He is also not a good fielder.
AK sox fan
possibly that violent swing he has…..especially when he missis….i dont think it has anything to do with his defense. DH would be the best place for him.
deweybelongsinthehall
AK:what defense? Unfortunately while it appears Devers at times has improved, using your eyes or saberstats, it always ends up he’s the worst full time third baseman in the league. Team defense saves the pitching staff and while they have perhaps the best OF defensively, their infield is amongst the worst even when Story plays.
Sagacity
HotDogWater – Never seen the moniker before so I’m guessing you either are some kid that just joined the site and know nothing about baseball or you are a second moniker of a troll.
EVERYONE recognizes that Devers sucks on defense despite the efforts of his agent to influence people to pretend he doesn’t. EVERYONE knows his contract is an albatross much like Stanton’s in NY. EVERYONE knows that Devers has ZERO defensive skills because they have followed him since he was 14 when he first showed he sucked on defense and has for the following 14 years. EVERYONE knows moving the worst 3B in the history of the MLB to DH is NOT ridiculous it’s the best thing for the team especially the pitching staff and it’s not ridiculous like moving Casas to CF because that is ridiculous. The move is by far the smartest thing Boston could do to improve it’s pathetic performances these past several years.
This is a major market club and they need to make decisions that reflect how a major market club should compete. Playing literally the WORST 3B in history is not what a major market club would do. It’s that simple.
FYI… FUN FACT…. Arenado in 2400 more chances at 3B than Devers has less errors. FUN FACT 2 – Devers has more errors than any active 3B in the MLB and the persons who recently retired and were ahead of him played over 16 seasons and Devers was about to pass them as he finished his 7th season and one of them was his rookie season when he only played from July to September and had 14 errors in 56 games.
NO INDIVIDUAL PLAYER should be able to dictate costing the team so many wins to satisfy his EGO. A quality front office would trade him or move him to DH.
HotDogWater
Everyone except John Henry I guess when he signed the $300 million contract.
Seriously, with the way the Red Sox pinch pennies, the idea that they would pay market rate for a premium 3B and then move him to DH 2 years later is laughable.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
DH is where he belongs. He should never be in any fielding position.
Joemo
And in all honesty, if people watched the games they would see a significantly improved Devers on defense. He’s not a good glove winner but he’s much better than he was.
Also the people who want to move him off of third want him to go to first, so they want him to learn a new position. That’s a recipe for success right there lol.
william-2
He can’t field, sorry. An improvement from worst to slightly closer to second worst isn’t much to hang your hat on.
I agree that making him learn a new position is not optimal at this point. I would have had him practicing the whole off season if that was my goal. If he was an average to good fielder than perhaps you get away with only spring training to learn 1B, but you would prefer more time. He isn’t average or good. A position change atm is DH. They can use all his free time this year, off season, and spring next year to try to make a 1B out of him if that is the goal.
Joemo
The DH spot isn’t open because there’s a significantly worse fielder clogging up the position.
Let’s just break this down real quick. Devers issue is defense and you want him to take the fielding aspect of 3B and add on the additional skill of receiving throws at 1B (picking balls, stretching to get them, etc)? How is that putting him in position to succeed?
If you watched him play 3B, you’d see there have been improvements year over year. He’s not going to win any gold gloves, but he’s putting together the skills to be passable over there. Makes literally no sense to throw away all that work and have him learn a new position. His off-season and “free time” during the season should be spent improving his 3B defense, because he’s made strides there.
And hey, pro tip, not everyone can be average or good at something. When you have 30 teams, each with let’s say 1 3B, that means you have 14 guys who are considered below average. His bat carries his defense.
MLB-1971
Hotdog – You must be a ‘casual fan’ to not know Devers production fell off a cliff last year because of injuries to BOTH shoulders. He needs to be a DH sooner than latter! Story healthy all 2025 may help Devers defense, but it will not help him stay healthy and productive over the next 10 years at $30,000,000+ per year. If I owned the Red Sox, I would want him at DH now.
HotDogWater
You don’t own the Red Sox, John Henry does, and literally every single thing they have done has shown that they are fine with him at 3B.
oldguyG
MLB teams need to fix thier TV revenue so they can fix thier team needs . Bally affected a lot of teams spending uncertainty .
YankeesBleacherCreature
A non-Red Sox issue. What’s their problem?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I think oldguy is just speaking in broad, general terms.
hiflew
I think the obvious has been missed. What if Casas or Yoshida was part of the trade return for the Cardinals? Yoshida could be included to offset some salary or Casas could just be part of a rebuild for St Louis.
deweybelongsinthehall
Hiflew, Casas is only getting traded for pitching, controllable pitching
dajuba
Nothing else to really write about as far as activity in MLB. Throw a couple of big names and big markets together in a headline to get some clicks. Casas isn’t being moved and the Red Sox have ZERO interest in acquiring Arenado. You can do so much better then this dribble MLBTR….so disappointing.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
“One initial roadblock, of course, is the fact that the Red Sox already have a star third baseman in Rafael Devers”
Star third baseman ? Kidding ? Very good with a bat in his hands but a joke as a thrid baseman.
JoeBrady
Astros_fan_in_Aus
Star third baseman ? Kidding ?
======================
I think when player is an AS, he gets to be called a star.
Quinnap89
Sox really should stop dangling their fans with big moves, we get it Breslow you don’t get us a star. Always looking for the broken, soon to be broken or hoping they return to form type of guy for dirt cheap. They haven’t spent like they promised they would to get us back to elite levels. I like the moves they’ve made but they are ALL huge what ifs and maybes. That’s not how you win a WS. You have to go out and get at least one proven guy. Yet another disappointing winter as a Sox fan after they promised us a lambo and gave us an Elantra
Fever Pitch Guy
Quinn – OUTSTANDING post!! So very true, constantly shopping in the bargain bin isn’t going to help them win championships. It certainly didn’t help them the past 5 years.
Unfortunately lying and deceiving is all they know.
deweybelongsinthehall
Quinn, if both cars are driven (the Lambo could be in the shop/on the IL), next year, the Lambo’s value drops $30k to $50k whereas the Elantra’s dips just $5k. Sox ownership is happy because their bottom line looks better with the Hyundai purchase.
Yaz'sOldBattingGloves
Acquiring Arenado by the Sox would be a very stupid move especially if it means they trade Casas.. Arenado 33 years old and his stats have been slowly declining. It would be a stupid move.
Domingo111
Why would the Red sox want a mid 30s arenado?
Just go in with casas and devers in the corners. Casas was hurt but he is projected for a 124 wrc+, 28 homers and 2.4 war by Steamer, devers is projected for a 134 wrc+ and 4.3 war. They neither need bregman nor arenado.
whyhayzee
The question is WHEN will Devers be the full time DH? Then you will need a third baseman. I think Bregman works for that, maybe. Put him at second base and then move him back over to third base. I just don’t like a long contract with him but that’s the market. As much as I like the potential of Yoshida’s bat, he is totally extraneous to this team. If the Cardinals will take Yoshida, then a trade for Arenado makes sense and it ties them up for less years. Keep the core young guys even if they all bat lefty and get enough right handed hitters to balance the lineup.
Bruin1012
The problem is when are they moving Devers to DH or more importantly when do you think Devers is willing to move? It’s obvious he’s treated with kid gloves. You would probably have to sign Bregman for 6 or 7 years that’s a long time especially when the Red Sox have true blue chip prospects coming to fill the second base position and at least one of the left side positions. He’s a temporary solution he would undoubtably help the team win more games even playing second this year. The problem is he blocks Campbell who is most likely a second baseman defensively. He potentially could also block Mayer on the left side.
Imo you go sign a couple relievers one from the top end then sign one of the other guys like Yates on 1 year deal. It doesn’t have to be Yates David Robertson on a one year deal sounds ok as well.
The offense is going to be ok Casas can hit lefties, Devers has always been able to hit lefties, Story has pretty healthy splits when healthy, Grissom or Campbell are both righties, Refsnyder is a lefty killer, Roman Anthony hit .316 against lefties, Connor Wong last year hit lefties very well. I don’t think offense is the issue. The starting pitching has been addressed now how get a couple more relievers and call it an off-season and bring on spring training.
whyhayzee
Bringing back Martin would be OK. I agree on a couple more relievers. I still yearn for the righty bat at least short term. I do like this team for the most part next year. So we’ll see what more happens.
olmtiant
I saw someone post that quite a few of Devers errors were throwing.. we all know his shoulders were barking at him entire season All most… let’s see if with healthy shoulders he can go from terrible to just bad possibly…
Fever Pitch Guy
olm – No question his shoulder injury impacted his throwing. He shouldn’t have played as long as he did with the injury, but the team needed him and as a leader he gained a tremendous amount of respect from his teammates by playing hurt. He could have easily JD Drew’d it if he wanted to, but he kept playing in pain.
What a shame he got injured, midseason he was Top 3 in OPS for MLB before the pain started really impacting his swing.
ghostofmookiebetts
DEVERS IS NOT MOVING OFF 3B THIS YEAR.
Thec’s
Spend the rest of the money on relieve pitching!
Sean P
Personally I’m ok with the team thus far. They had to pick a lane. And they have. They’ve decided to let to team improve by getting more playing time for the young guys. They’ve added a couple pitchers that have a lot of potential to be good/great. If the team plays great I’m sure they will be making moves before the deadline. If not, the next wave of players can come up and we can assess what we really have. It’s not the sexiest lane, but it is an appropriate one given the circumstances.
Joemo
Adding Arenado or Bregman still doesn’t solve the Red Sox need for a middle of the order RHB. It would also require additional moves to either Casas or Yoshida and they will not get back fair value for Casas after the injury shortened season. The Red Sox already have to deal with Story, no reason to add another player like him to the roster.
Unless they can get a true middle of the order RHB, they shouldn’t just add a RHB to add a RHB. Keep the lane open for the young guys (Campbell, Anthony, and Mayer eventually) to come up and succeed.
Bobby smac9
Getting Yoshida off the 40 man is the ultimate goal. It’s going to require him to show that he’s healthy. As a one dimensional player, he has zero value unless he can swing the bat. At best he’ll probably be moved mid season with cash to facilitate the trade. His health dictates every thing.
Devlsh
Yoshida is deadweight, and not easy to move. When a guy offers ONE thing (his bat) and even that isn’t premium, AND he’s paid $18Million a year AND he’s got health questions AND he precludes the acquiring team from using the DH spot for other purposes, his appeal is very limited.
Even if the Sox pay down his contract to $10 mil a year, I doubt they’d find many teams willing to give them anything substantive in return; he’s not an asset in any trade scenario. That said, his existence on the Red Sox keeps them from becoming a better team by moving Devers off 3B to DH.
Bobby smac9
Yeah, they would be selling low, no doubt.
Simm
I could see the padres being a potential player here. Just throwing it out there.
Cease 13m
Suarez 10m
W.Peralta 4.5m
Total of 27.5m
Casas min
Yoshida 18m
Houck 4.5m
Cash 5m x 3 years
Total 17.5m added to padres
Padres shed 10m, Sox add 10m. Sox get a 1/2 type starter and can QO him next season. Plus a closer and a lefty reliever. Padres get a LF/DH, 1b, 4/5 starter plus save 10m.
Padres then see if they can trade cronenworth or Arraez. Too many lefties with them both and Yoshida, Casas, Merrill. Perhaps it’s fine with a good righty bench piece. Though I’d move one of them and save 11-15m.
Putting the padres about 20m+ under the tax. If they can sign Roki obviously the rotation looks better than now. Could resign profar, add a couple of bench pieces or add another starting pitcher. May depend on if they get Roki or not.
Anyways just spit balling.
Bruin1012
You lost me with the inclusion of Houck who’s probably just as good as Cease and controlled for a longer time it’s a really good deal for the Padres but Red Sox would say no and easily.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
It would.be hilarious to see some of these packages. Lol…
Winthrop Bissell
Keep Casas. Same for Yoshida until he shows good health and really good hitting.
What the Red Sox really need to do is acquire a cost effective proven infielder with really good defense. I would suggest Ha Seong Kim or Jose Iglesias. Iglesias has shown he is still a really good defender and can hit – he will cost less. If Grissom or Campbell show really good defense at 2nd, then the acquired infielder could be moved. Grissom is probably the better defender at this time
If either of these two guys can’t do the job at 2nd, leave them in Worcester to mature. The Red Sox will not move up in the standings
without improving the defense on the dirt. This would also show the
pitchers that the Red Sox are serious about providing defensive support.
Then spend the big money on another really good reliever.
There is probably enough starting pitching depth. Of course there won’t be one team that will not have multiple pitchers injured during the season. Now we know that many pitchers start over stressing their arms in high school.
Sogard should stay as utility guy who did well defensively last year.
Keep Fitts who showed some good stuff at the end of last year.
Consider Grichuk as an additional right handed hitter but only if he is
better than Refsnyder.
JoeBrady
Depending on price, I’d prefer Bregman over Arenado. He is a good bit younger, and better. I’d prefer to sign an RP or extend Crochet, but if we could get Bregman for maybe $135M/5, I wouldn’t distressed. We could start him at 2nd until we see how Devers looks.
Joe S
It is funny that Arenado still thinks he is a star player. He is a millstone around the neck of any organization who aquires him. His hitting it average and while fileding is above average , at his age the decline may come as soon as this year.
The Big Yo
Sacramento A’s
baseballguru
BREGMAN & SCOTT! SPEND THE MONEY!!! NO TRADES WIN A RING! IT’S THERE…TAKE IT!
Devlsh
So much namecalling. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn’t mean they’re braindead, childish or a moron.
If you think someone is an idiot, mute them. If someone calls you a name, mute them. If someone lacks the critical thinking skills to engage in an adult conversation and you find you’re lowering yourself to their level, mute them.
I’ve enjoyed reading the comments of some people on this site but they lose credibility and respect when they can’t refrain from belittling others who disagree with them.
TB Sox NY
I will go on an assumption that only big names win you championships.They could sign Scherzer or Verlander.Both big names and have pitched in the post season.Trade for Arenado or sign Bregman and we win the World Series.Anybody heard of Tanner Scott until he had a great year?You get young guys and when the blossom you win.I go back to Pedroia. He was horrible his first year.He worked to get better and became a star.Wouldn’t you rather draft and watch their progression rather than sign stars who are usually in their prime and trending downward than drafting good players and watch them be good for say 8 to 10 years.
Fever Pitch Guy
TB – You are really contradicting yourself there! First you say acquire the older big names to win championships. Then you say draft and watch the progression of your own players. So which is it?
Personally I’d rather stick with the kids, Cambbell and Abreu and Duran and Anthony and Devers and Grissom and Casas and Houck and Crawford.
And you think Pedroia was awful his first year???? Hahaha …. he won Rookie of the Year while batting .317 with an .823 OPS!!!!
Maybe you meant his first MONTH, which was the September prior to his first year??
william-2
Guys, I just want to point out something I have noticed the last few weeks, and you can dismiss me and this post if you want. I am not someone that is here often enough all year to even think I know all the history of posters, etc. The animosity between posters is a little much, considering no one that posts here really matters, including myself. No one here is making a decision that matters, and no one from the team is basing moves off of our posts. This is recreation for most people. Keep that in mind.
Everyone has opinions. This is where you give them. Don’t hold any animosity for people that are doing the exact same thing you are doing.
They are opinions, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS DISPOSABLE AND MEANS NOTHING in the grand scheme.
Just take each post as someone’s outlet, and don’t get worked up about it, or personal. Trolling someone with an equally useless opinion as your own does nothing but upset yourself and them. If you can’t control yourself, just mute them, and move along. This is a retreat in life and if you find it means more than that, I recommend finding another outlet in life, because it really isn’t worth it to lose your temper over some guy you never met saying Breslow should have traded x for y when you think it should have been y for z.
So, share news, give your opinion, make mock trades, etc. None of it is worth being worked up about. I tend to post more negatively than positively these days because I FEEL it is warranted. It doesn’t mean my goal it to make that the 100% consensus to feel validated. That goes the other way around when I think a clever, or good move has been made. People disagree, and that is fine.
Fever Pitch Guy
william – I appreciate your post, but as someone who DOES spend a lot of time here and been here for many years I can easily state what the main problem is.
There are people here who, if they disagree with someone, they attack that person and try to silence them. This juvenile tactic is not exclusive to MLBTR or even the baseball forums in general (although there’s a direct correlation between numbers obsession and spectrum behavior). This happens throughout the WWW on discussion boards about everything from stocks to politics to religion to you name it.
I’ve talked to several people who have quietly disappeared from this place, and they all gave the same reason for leaving ….. too many people being disrespectful to others. Too many people who, instead of disagreeing or simply ignoring comments they don’t like, instead go into attack mode with namecalling and insults. Quite often it’s because they are mentally incapable of engaging in conversation. They are incapable of listening to others, they are incapable of explaining why they disagree, and they are incapable of admitting when they are proven wrong.
If you want to continue this discussion, I’m up to it. Just wanted you to know there’s a lot more to it than just a difference of opinion. Quite often I have told people I disagree with them, but I also told them I respect their opinion and I will defend the right of EVERYONE to express their opinion …. as long as they don’t cross the line of personal attacks of course.
And oh yeah, one other thing. Not all posts are created equal. Some people such as you and I take the time to put some thought into what we write, we support our viewpoints, we provide proof with stats and articles, and we don’t take the childish approach of being 100% for or 100% against any player.
I ALWAYS have something positive to say about EVERY player, and something constructive to say about them as well. That’s what having an unbiased opinion is all about. Too many people here waste everyone’s time by lying in favor of those they like and lying in opposition against those they dislike.
It’s really simple, IF YOU CAN’T SAY BOTH POSITIVE AND CONSTRUCTIVE THINGS ABOUT ANYONE, THEN YOU’RE TOO DAMN BIASED TO BE SHARING AN OPINION.
And yes modern technology is a a part of the problem, because it has caused some people to age without ever learning how to have friendly, polite conversations. Too many immature keyboard warriors with mental issues that have yet to be addressed.
william-2
I agree. I have always loved a spirited debate for one major factor. Not proving I am right but listening to the reason I may be wrong. It helps people grow to hear the other point of view. Sometimes it changes your view, points you to aspects you need to research better, or solidifies your opinion as being the more likely correct one.
It takes listening though.
I just wanted to point out that the rhetoric is still, for the most part, the way it should be, but there are a few people using insults that seem to be misplaced on a forum where presumably we are mostly fans of a team we like and want the same goals for it. It is a forum. These are opinions. It is recreational. If your heart rate went up one tick over a post and you respond to it emotionally, you probably were best served not responding at all or finding another outlet for it. Not a single person is forcing anyone to post or respond. Not a single opinion here holds any weight with anyone that matters to the subject matter anyway.
Fever Pitch Guy
william – Yes me too. It’s a longstanding frequent tradition with my offline friends to gather at one of our houses and just discuss a bunch of topics. Like you said listening is key, I really enjoy hearing other intellectuals express their thoughts from a different view than my own. It broadens the mind and helps each other form better opinions.
Yep the true Red Sox fans want the team to win, obviously. If that means convincing the team to stop being cheap and stop making dumb decisions, fans have a responsibility to get that point across whether it be through baseball forums or staying away from Fenway or not buying their merchandise.
Absolutely this is recreational, I’ve said many times I am here to have fun and I want others to have fun! That’s why many of my posts briefly include humorous offtopic jokes. The enormous positive feedback I receive is heartwarming.
Absolutely true, nobody is being forced to respond to anyone. The mute button is a Godsend, filtering out those who bring no value and are obsessed with talking about others by specific name. It’s always easy to spot the troublemakers, they are the ones who are bitter because they’ve been muted and therefore are obsessed with their elaborate fantasy of “revenge”. against me. I laugh at those who try to bully me, and try to bully others to turn against me. Didn’t that method of bullying also fail in early November ;O)
I know, everyone tells me I’m living rent free in their heads ….. but I’ve got my own house, thankyouvermuch! Hahaha!!!
all in the suit that you wear
William-2: “The animosity between posters is a little much, considering no one that posts here really matters, including myself.”
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In my opinion: People are here for any number of reasons. They like baseball. They like expressing their views. They like their team, etc. Their reason(s) for being here are important to them and matter to them and that is why people can be quite serious here. Regarding animosity toward posters in Red Sox articles, I mostly see posters having issues with Fever Pitch Guy. A lot of people have had issues with him. Some people prefer to speak up instead of putting someone on mute because this place matters to them.
deweybelongsinthehall
All, I find it bizarre in that only recently have Fever and I started seeing eye to eye and now I’m getting hit back on by a few. I choose to ignore most and as to Fever, his comment on Red Sox ownership is spot on. Like a drug dealer getting you hooked and then they take their money and move on to the next. Fenway Group is too big and only cares when it affects their bottom line when it was the Red Sox that allowed them to develop and grow their conglomerate. They’ve said it (“Fenway Park is a destination”). Very sad for the true Sox fan.
all in the suit that you wear
Dewey: I think the Red Sox are doing a reasonably good job as I don’t like long, expensive deals with older free agents. I also think spending around the luxury tax threshold each year should enough to field a very good team if spent well. So, we disagree and that’s fine. We each have our own opinion. You are a good poster and don’t have the issues that people point out regarding Fever Pitch Guy. So, people grouping you with him should pass.
acell10
Dewey I think we’ve disagreed a few times but at least you use facts and don’t try to gaslight people by lying.
deweybelongsinthehall
All, sometimes it’s best to stay silent. While I’m speaking of Sox ownership, it works with us posters as well (lol). Ownership opens their mouth and we start dreaming. If they didn’t say two years straight what was said, I’d still have issues but would be far less upset. A big market club spends to make but ownership takes to spend elsewhere.
deweybelongsinthehall
I guess I’m ignorantAcell or at times just not as knowledgeable as others because I truly don’t see it.
acell10
I don’t think you’re ignorant if you’re referring to the lying aspect of FPGs statements but he’s been called out on it multiple times. You might not have been involved in those particular conversations but it’s happened plenty with him.
jmaa
Arenado would play pin ball off the green monster. He would be a game changer in Boston.
DroppedThirdStrike
1. To hit the green monster you first have to hit.
2. To hit the green monster as a right handed hitter you have to pull the ball.
This is not Nolan Arenado. Not anymore.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dropped – Well said!
Some people latch onto a popular name and assume they will always perform like a star. As John Sterling would say, all good things come to an end.
jmaa
Extreme pull hitter. Tried to alter approach mid season for some reason. He still hit numerous sky balls to the track which would soar out of Fenway. Hope he stays in STL but he would be a horse for the course in Fenway.
stan lee the manly
He has changed his swing to try to fit it to Busch Stadium better. As there would be less of an issue as an extreme pull hitter at Fenway, it is very likely that he changes it back if he is traded.
Fever Pitch Guy
jmaa – I totally understand some people could be emerging from a coma, but it’s not 2022 anymore.
It’s 2025 and Arenado has absolutely sucked the past two years.
william-2
I am not advocating for Arenado specifically but just pointing out a couple positives and negatives that a person building a roster over three years would think about.
I would amend that to this. Arenado has been an excellent fielder at third. That alone would be a massive upgrade that would have very positive effects for our pitchers and change the dynamic of our team.
He is an adequate hitter for the above reason. You are correct that he sprays more as he has aged, but the one thing we know is that stats tend to uptick at Fenway by simply existing. I am not saying he will hit 30HR or bat .300. I am just saying that I would not be surprised if he hit 10 points higher with an addition few HR. Think Mike Lowell with a couple more HR’s.
I am not advocating either way, just pointing out the Fenway factor. Also, we do not know for certain if he was dealing with any lingering physical issues that could either cause a slight rebound or be causing a further deterioration. That is a factor.
The contract is not overly burdensome. Assuming we take the whole contract, which we may not. 21 million 2025. I think the last two years are tabulated at about 16 and 15 million a year as is. So not overly expensive (below QO). Although the move blocks 3rd base to Campbell if he remains at third for the duration, it does mean Devers is off third finally (Yoshida being moved dependent). It means Campbell will be a 2nd baseman if he wins a job. Not a bad scenario if you ask me. With Mayers and Campbell on the cusp this may be the better move at this point of time rather than a long-term deal for Breg that will certainly block 3rd for its duration. You don’t sign a guy like Breg to move him off a position he plays well to experiment at 2nd when it is such a huge upgrade from your weakest defensive position.
deweybelongsinthehall
The difference with me and others is I don’t care if Arenado turns back the clock with the bat. I’ll take average production because his defense would help save the staff and win a couple of games by itself when compared to having Devers man the corner.
jmaa
One year. Cardinals whole team sucked. Even then He would have hit 25 plus over the monster last year.
stan lee the manly
He has been above average with the bat paired with his always excellent defense for both of the last two years. That’s not what “absolutely sucking” is lol
Fever Pitch Guy
stan – He hadn’t been below 4.0 WAR since 2014, and had a 7.7 WAR in 2022.
He’s average a 2.4 WAR over the past 2 years. That steep decline is what I meant.
Can he reverse the trend? It’s possible, but I don’t like taking high risk gambles.
SalaryCapMyth
I just got a reminder of why you read the article before you make yourself look like an idiot in the comments section. I read the lead line and thought about how bringing in Arenado would benefit the Red Sox more than any other team. Arenado takes third base, you move Devers to DH and trade Yoshida for whatever you can get even it’s just some salary relief and a greeting card.
So simple it’s a no brainer, right? But of course something incredibly beneficial to the Red Sox just can’t happen because Devers is tying his feet to third base. It blows my mind that someone who could turn in one of the all time worst fielding careers in MLB is digging his heels in.
I’m really not exaggerating. Devers has lead the league in errors SEVEN TIMES!!! He has a career negative 62 DRS. In the last 5 years he has not ranked higher than the 8th % for range by baseball savant’s estimation. Devers couldn’t field the statue of Liberty of Godzilla threw it at him.
I wonder how bad he has to get before he is willing to surrender on this issue.
Fever Pitch Guy
Salary – Hoping you can have a mature adult discussion because there’s a ton of comments here from children who can’t.
Of course I agree with you that Devers is a very poor fielder.
Is he the worst? Absolutely freakin’ not.
Of those who play regularly, you know who is truly the worst?
Bohm and Riley.
Since you mentioned the past 5 years, during that time Bohm has 5 more negative DRS and that’s despite playing 1,330 FEWER INNINGS.
During the past 5 years, Riley’s UZR is 1.1 worse than Devers.
So there’s no need to exaggerate, we all want Devers moved off 3B …. but to remain credible you need to keep it real.
SalaryCapMyth
I’m sure we can have an adult conversation.
Too start, two things can be true at the same time. Bohm can be worse than Devers on a smaller sample (as in fewer innings) and Devers can be on a trajectory of a player that will go down as one of the all time worst fielding 3B in baseball.
Leading the league in errors seven times is significant. Bohm averages 1 error in a little over every 85 innings. Devers averages 1 error every 58 2/3 innings. That is a huge difference.
Bohm averages a negative run every 96.2 innings while Devers averages one every 133.1 innings. It’s even peculiar the way you piggy back off my 5 year statement looking at Devers range compared to the rest of baseball. Five years is the entirety of Bohms career.
The last fact I will mention is I said he could turn in one of the worst fielding careers in baseball. There are ways around it. He could be moved off third base and he’ll go down as just a really bad third basemen.
Hopefully you won’t take this next part to badly but I have a criticism of your manners. It’s a little difficult to say “Hoping you can have a mature adult discussion because there’s a ton of comments here from children who can’t.”
and then say: ”
“So there’s no need to exaggerate, we all want Devers moved off 3B …. but to remain credible you need to keep it real.”
Perhaps you will have more civil conversations by keeping your criticism purely on the argument rather than assuming someone is being disingenuous about their argument. If they are exaggerating it is usually easily exposed. The other stuff is not necessary.
all in the suit that you wear
SalaryCapMyth: You are not the first to have a problem with Fever Pitch Guy’s manners.
Fever Pitch Guy
Salary – Thank you, I appreciate your polite post! It’s refreshing to see others who provide details as support for their views.
One aspect worth mentioning, the shortstop playing alongside Devers and Bohm is most definitely a factor.
Bohm has had the luxury of Trea Turner next to him.
And Devers? Ever since Xander left, Devers has had the misfortune of playing next to some very poor fielding shortstops as the numbers will attest.
While leading the league in errors doesn’t hold that much weight considering he also tends to be near the top of the league in innings, I do appreciate you also providing the innings per error numbers.
I also appreciate you acknowledging the negative DRS per inning favors Devers over Bohm.
Why is it peculiar I used the same 5 year range you used? I’m just trying to be fair, it would be unfair to Bohm to go back further on Devers. Similarly, it’s important to not put too much stock in Raffy’s defense last year because he was playing injured.
Ummm …. I mentioned exaggerating because YOU mentioned it in your post ;O) But that was a blanket statement on my part anyway, not directed at just you.
IMO you have a slightly different definition of civil, but overall I appreciate the conversation. You talked baseball, which I enjoy doing, so thank you!
Sagacity
The comment about Bohn is total BS. Nobody and I mean NOBODY can be as bad as Devers unless you are looking at a sample size of 1 ball hit.
Bohn’s Fielding % is .959 and league average is .960 so he’s ONE point below in his first 5 seasons. He has 50 errors in 5 seasons.
Devers’ Fielding % is .944 with a WHOPPING 141 errors and that is low since they have been favoring him by reclassifying the misses as misplays not errors. Devers is 15 POINTS LOWER. ONE POINT below league average by Bohn and Devers is 15 points below that!!! These two aren’t even close.
Bohn is a league average fielder and Devers is the worst ever!!
Facts are facts and they aren’t often provided by some people.
DroppedThirdStrike
He plays where the manager pencils him in at. He can pout or play baseball, but he can’t play 3B.
Fever Pitch Guy
Drop – You hafta admit, he’s got good pouting cheeks. Looks almost like a blowfish, especially when he’s dipping.
DroppedThirdStrike
Not quite as sexy as Mookie’s sneer, but close
RickEO
Redsox are fine. Dont need Arenado or bregman. Go get Tanner Scott for 3 years
Fever Pitch Guy
Rick – I actually agree with you!! But Tanner is a longshot, especially since they already have Chapman (I know he’s not as good, but he’s still good).
rocky7
Good luck with Chappy……you’ll love to hate him…..especially when he walks the bases loaded when he can’t find the plate….and his main weapon in the past was his 100+ heater which at this time in MLB almost every player can put into play……..goo luck……Scott would be the play here.
deweybelongsinthehall
Rocky, Sox fans have already experienced Chapman but from the right side. His name was Kimbrel. The difference is Chapman wasn’t signed to close.
william-2
Chapman is a one-year deal. Scott provides insurance in case there are issues with Liam and adds a good lefty either way. Going into the off season I thought this was the no brainer for a team that needed solid lefty relievers and needed to improve the pen.
I just didn’t like the odds of outbidding for him the way we conduct ourselves. If he was off a couple of down years or coming off a major injury that is another story. Welcome to Fenway then.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Sox have to swallow it and move on. It remains to be seen how imperfect the situation will be in practice than on paper.
Someone made a point about Dever’s shoulders could have hindered his throwing. We’re going to have to hope this is the case. It could explain the worst case situation we are feeling because we did feel he improved when he got the extension, and the Sox probably thought the same too.
Bregman and Arenado aren’t the same guys as their name stock, and it does the Sox little favors to enjoy the headaches this move will bring. The same could be said with dumping Yoshida. These things should work themselves out naturally because we don’t know how Devers and Yoshida will react to prove us fools.
Sagacity
Cleveland – Check the facts in Baseball Reference. Devers has NOT gotten better they just re-categorized many of his misses from ERROR to MISPLAY. The balls are still being hit to him and he is still not making the play so the pitching staff pays for his lack of skills. They can PRETEND he’s not a butcher but you can’t refute the numbers. He’s the worst of all time by the numbers not by my opinion.
Again, let me point out Arenado has less errors in a WHOPPING 2400 addition TOTAL CHANCES. How many wins does that convert to? How much higher is the Red Sox pitching staff’s ERA and WHIP because of ONE GUY. This is a solvable problem but apparently his agent won’t let them solve it!!!! hahaha Wow the ego Devers carries is beyond belief.
It would be one thing if he was a Mike Trout or Aaron Judge but his peak OPS+ is 141. He’s slightly above league average and he’s the worst EVER on defense. I know because I’ve documented how bad he was at 14, then when he went to the minors and then when he got to the majors. Until they started messing with his numbers to make him look less horrible, he actually had a lower fielding percentage in the MLB than the minors and his minors number was horrendous.
BURN HIS GLOVES and make him DH. Simple way to add 10 or more wins.
ricelynnevans
Organizations love controllable years. So there’s no way they move Casas or Abreu.
They’ll give Yoshida’s contract away for a bucket of gum. Even if they have to pay for all of it.
Devers will go to DH.
The Sox will call Papi and Yaz and have them sit on Devers and set him straight.
Trading for Aranado is a no-brainer. Even if he’s extremely average at the plate, his defense is a game-changer. And he’s a very popular teammate. And buds with Story.
deweybelongsinthehall
Agree with almost everything you posted Rice. Yaz keeps a low profile and it’s Rice who should be speaking to Devers
Sagacity
Every year around this time the Marketing Team hires a bunch of influencers to get their message out to the public to sway opinions on things that aren’t going well. Devers moving to DH and so many others. We get a whole bunch of new monikers with screwed up opinions about what a great job the front office is doing so they stick out like sore thumbs. They pick up on any negative themes that are presented by the real fans of the Red Sox and they try to spin them and build alliances with the more naive contributors that don’t like negativity.
Beware of these folks. They appear to be interns that only last so many months until they get through Spring Training and the front office has created enough propaganda about what the fans should be saying not what the many actually are saying.
So beware of the new monikers. They are paid to make their comments and I don’t care if you believe me or not because I know for a fact that it is a common practice these days and has been since the COVID season. I have friends with family members doing it for a living as part of their college internship.
WARNING WARNING WILL SMITH – LOOK OUT FOR NEW MONIKERS!!!