With Garrett Crochet and Walker Buehler added to the rotation and last year’s free agent signing Lucas Giolito expected to be ready for Opening Day after missing the 2024 season, the Red Sox are considering deploying a six-man rotation in 2025 according to a report from Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic.
That such a plan would be under consideration by the club’s front office makes sense, given the way their starting corps is constructed. On paper, it’s an exceptionally deep group with homegrown youngsters Tanner Houck, Brayan Bello, and Kutter Crawford joining the aforementioned trio while depth pieces like Richard Fitts, Quinn Priester, and Cooper Criswell all remain in the wings as plug-and-play depth options. Beyond that group, the Red Sox have weighed veteran Michael Fulmer as a starting option and have additional potential options like Garrett Whitlock and Patrick Sandoval expected to return from the injured list at some point during the 2025 season.
While a list of credible, MLB-caliber starters twelve names deep is something the majority of clubs around the league figure to be envious of, that depth could easily prove necessary for the Red Sox given the concerning injury histories at play in their rotation mix. Giolito, Fulmer, Whitlock, and Sandoval will all be pitching off a big league mound for the first time since undergoing elbow surgery and will surely need to have their workloads managed carefully as they get back into the grind of work as a starter.
Additionally, Buehler will be just one year removed from the same situation and last pitched a wire-to-wire big league season in 2021 while Crochet made 32 starts in 2024 but nearly tripled his maximum single-season innings workload as a professional after struggling with injuries earlier in his career. Both hurlers may need to have their innings carefully managed in 2025, particularly given Boston’s postseason aspirations and the fact that the club surely wants to have both healthy and ready to go in the event that the club makes its first playoff run since 2021. Houck, Bello, and Crawford all also put together career-high innings totals in 2024, leaving reason to consider whether the club’s entire rotation mix may benefit from the additional rest that a six man rotation provides.
The biggest reason for a team to have pause regarding the possibility of a six-man rotation (at least, for clubs that do not employ Shohei Ohtani) is the 13-pitcher limit for MLB rosters, which cause any club using a six-man rotation to be forced to deploy a seven-man bullpen. The additional rest between starts could allow starters to pitch deeper into games and make playing a man down in the bullpen more feasible, at least in theory, but the occasional short start due to injury or ineffectiveness is inevitable over the course of a 162-game season and a bullpen with just seven pitchers that’s forced to cover six or seven innings during a shortened start could be hampered for the next several games by the surprise uptick in workload.
With that said, Boston’s extreme depth of potential starting options could set the club up to utilize a six-man rotation more effectively than the average club. With twelve pitchers at least potentially in the mix for starts this season, utilizing a handful of those arms as bullpen pieces capable of going multiple innings would be a way to allow the club’s relief corps to better handle its workload despite having just seven arms available at a time. All indications point to the Red Sox already planning to move Whitlock back into the bullpen once he’s ready to return to action, and players like Fulmer, Priester, Criswell, and even Josh Winckowski could all also seamlessly move into the club’s bullpen and throw multiple innings if needed.
Of course, the club’s ability to stack relievers capable of going multiple innings in the bullpen will surely depend on the moves they make to bolster their relief corps going forward this winter. Justin Slaten, Aroldis Chapman, and Liam Hendriks are all more or less guaranteed spots in the club’s Opening Day bullpen so long as health allows, and the same is likely true for lefty Justin Wilson. That would leave just three bullpen spots available if the club moves to a six-man rotation, and if the club decides to pursue another relief addition like Tanner Scott or Chris Martin then there would be just two spots available for traditional bullpen arms like Greg Weissert or Brennan Bernardino as well as any multi-inning options the club wants to utilize.
There’s those Massachusetts minds going to work
Crochet averaged 4.5 innings per start in 2024.
Crochet was on a pitch count. I’m guessing 160-180 innings this year.
Having a Sox man staff basically already incorporates those “short start” times as it doesn’t mean pitchers have to always get that extra day of rest. it’s just over the course of the season, barring injuries those starters that remain in the rotation throughout the full season will have had an estimated 26.67 starts instead of 32.40 if my quick math is correct. It’s theoretical but given most have actual concerns, it sounds good going into spring training where things could change. If the starters can as a whole lengthen their average starts, having that eighth reliever will be less important as long as at least one has a “Bob Stanley” type arm that can go the extra mileage without notice when required.
If the starters can as a whole lengthen their average starts,
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To just expand on this concept a bit, our four key SPs averaged 5.58 IP/GS. Assuming that Giolito and Crochet can do the same, then 6 * 5.58 = 904 IPs.
904 IPs would rank us roughly #4 in MLB. One of the things being overlooked is that having 6 SPs means less “Opener” games which chew up the BP. With a 6-man rotation, the “Opener” should all but disappear. Even with injuries, Criswell should make a quality #7.
Shoman-Followed by a loud pop in his elbow.
Crochet averaged 5.6 innings per start through the end of June. Then the White Sox announced that they would be greatly managing his workload the rest of the way. And then he averaged far less per start the rest of his season. Amazing how that works!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Crochet averaged 4.5 innings per start in 2024.
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He was on an innings restriction last yea, after June. But for the first three months, he averaged 5.63/GS.
Buehler averaged 5.4 innings per start in 2024, but sometimes he could have pitched longer and was just bad.
4.8
Might just be reporters going to work during a slow news period.
32 hour work week!
Probably a good idea to at least start the season
There are some advantages like asking for more innings per start, then giving more rest. The other side is carrying the full rotation means more guys can get experience instead of the long reliever role.
It’s not a long term solution, but maybe it helps the team get over the ASG roadblocks they’ve been encumbered by two years in a row.
Anything is better than Cora’s bullpen games from last season
Given the injury history of the players in question, it may be the most sensible action moving forward. One or two long stints on the IL will derail this train and leave them trading more talent to plug holes. One thing is certain, JH is not going to sign blank checks to be a winning ball club. you can take that to the bank.
Blank checks don’t create a winning ball club – adding the right players is what does that. How much has Trevor Story helped them win since being handed the big bag? They would pay for the right guys, but with everyone either getting overpaid or holding a line at being overpaid until it finally happens or they accept a pillow deal (as we saw with the Boras guys last year) why force an overpay at this stage when they still have to prove they have a contending level roster?
Cora can’t make an 8 man bullpen last, so not sure a seven man bullpen will work. Five starters and a sixth spot starter works, with the sixth guy also pitching multi-inning relief stints.
Tough to do that to a pitcher (consistent multi-inning then expect them to start periodically). Wondering who in the list to do it with? Crawford seems like the likeliest of the group.
@Bilbo Baggins It’s a good point. Even Goose Gossage couldn’t continue in that role after his age 26 season.
It does seem like Boston could manage by playing the options game well, particularly with both upper minors affiliates near by.
Think 5 inning starts and 3 inning relief appearances, well spaced. It is a feasible role if the manager doesn’t get greedy and try to slip in some short relief as well.
One of my major concerns, amongst many, is the fact our starters tend to not go deep too often. When you get short starts so often you burn the pen.
If you have a great pen, bringing up a few innings eaters for blow outs is viable to give guys a rest. The Red Sox have a bullpen that isn’t very strong with some serious question marks in it. When they are forced by injuries or overwork to bring up guys to pitch leverage situations instead of blow outs by necessity it tends to get ugly.
I don’t follow the Sox much so I don’t know -are the short starting stints the result of ineffectiveness or is Cora one of those numbers guys that won’t let a starter go through a lineup for the 3rd time?
Cora doesn’t let starters go more than five innings. On rare occasions a starter might go 6, but he is so inept at managing pitching that the bullpen is spent by the All Star break.
It’s not the 3rd time through much anymore, it’s that they have 100 bullets to fire before they’re done. Use them up and you’re out early. But it’s very rare to see someone throw even 120 pitches in today’s game.
I couldn’t have said it better Fat. Thank you.
These numbers blew my mind. In 2024 in all of MLB:
Only 4 starters pitched 200+ IP
Only 9 starters pitched 190+ IP
Only 21 starters pitched 180+ IP
@FatChance65 If Cora is so ruthless and inept with his bullpen, why did only one pure reliever pitch more than 57 innings (Weisert at 63 IP—oh, the cruelty!)
Even swingman Winckowski only went 76 innings.
As for starters, when Cora has a guy who can go, he lets him. Houck went 178 innings in 2024 after 114 innings bt the majors and minors in 2023. Cora hardly babies his starters. It’s more a case of knowing their limitations.
It isn’t the number of innings but the number of appearances. Cora could get more innings from the same relievers if he used some of them for multiple innings.
Moreover, this is exactly what he did in the first half before he announced that he was going to get “aggressive” with his bullpen moves. In the first half the bullpen was pretty good. It wasn’t until he started playing matchups with a lot of short stints and mid-inning switches that the pen flamed out.
When you switch arms mid inning, it’s almost like adding another inning to the workload. Another time getting up, another set of warmup pitches.
Jack, it’s because of the quantity used, not quality. Look at how the Sox staff under Cora typically melts by August because they are burnt out. While he can only use what he’s given, the results were the same in 25 under Breslow as they were under Bloom. Cora is the most overrated manager in the game. Sad when your best attribute is being bilingual. It gives him the ability to teach cheating in multiple languages.
That’s baseball Susan.
Generally high pitch counts by the 5th running deep counts, or bad outings.
*in 24.
WaitTil2026
It isn’t the number of innings but the number of appearances.
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The RS #13/14 in MLB for number of RP appearances. That’s almost exactly league-average.
rememberthescoop — it’s both. Cora does have a short trigger and overuses the bullpen; however, a bunch of the starters are volatile often enough that getting to 6th inning is a good outing.
Why they struggle is often a combo of boosted pitch counts from deep counts and walks, but this heads into the 3rd time through the order, and Cora pulls the plug before it explodes.
True… But again, you can’t just look at the season totals.
Cora managed the bullpen well for the first half of the season. He had a few guys in single-inning roles, but the rest of the pen was used for multi innings. Before the ASB, Bernardino was the only reliever with fewer innings than appearances. The team average was 1.28 IP/GR.
In the second half, the Red Sox had 249.1 IP in 249 GR for 1.00 IP/GR. The critical period was the month coming out of the ASB, with Martin on the DL and Jansen unavailable for one series. Over that month there were multiple pitchers with fewer IP than GR, including Kelly, Booser, Bernardino, Horn, Sims, Anderson, and (on his return) Martin.
Cora responded to a short pen by having his relievers throw more often for shorter stints. The problem is that you get more total innings out of a given bullpen arm when you throw LONGER appearances a little less frequently. So his shift in bullpen management had the opposite effect and increased the stress on an already stressed pen.
If you look at the actual game logs you’ll see it is even worse than that. The frequent/short appearances were “bunched” rather than spaced evenly throughout the month. Again, that increases the stress on the arms and results in fewer available (or at least fewer quality) innings.
Guess you had to be there while it unfolded…
All of the Red Sox regular starters except Criswell averaged 5.4 IP/GS last year. The team average was identical to the league average at 5.2.
Other managers have been able to adapt. Cora is one of the few who insists on burning the pen.
@WaitTil22026 If there wasn’t zero evidence of that in 2024, of Cora ‘burning the pen’ (just look at the innings totals of the Red Sox relievers—they’re in no way unusual) you might have a point.
Plenty of evidence, you are just looking at the wrong thing. Throwing two innings in a game is less stressful than throwing 0.2 innings in back-to-back-to-back games. Look at the pitching patterns in the six weeks following the All Star Break – he had guys throwing more frequent shorter outings for fewer innings but more stress.
Ended up with much of the pen going to the DL, which also doesn’t boost innings totals.
Also add in the number of warm up tossed. It is simply not being realistic or honest with yourself trying to defend Cora. His track record speaks for itself.
League average is not a good gauge. All that tells you is that it was possible one team had starters average 7 innings and another average 3 (as an example), or that one team had 2 guys average 7, 2 guys average 3, and one guy average 5. It also takes bullpen starts into account.
If you have a team where all the guys average 5, you are looking at 4 innings of relief nearly every game for 20 innings a rotation. If three starters average 7 and the others 5, you are looking at 14. That is a huge difference to a bullpen. 6 less innings a turn for 162 games. Factor in the up and down warmups and you burn the bullpen.
The average indicates the total number of innings that the bullpen will need to cover.
Nobody in the majors averages 7 IP these days. Houck is one of the 14 starters who averaged 6. Crawford was #49 in IP/GS, Bello and Pivetta #72 and #73.
The bullpen starts were a problem, hopefully won’t be necessary this year, but the bigger factor is that you need to lean on 2 IP relief stints in today’s game to make the numbers add up right. You get more relief innings out of a pitcher by throwing 2 IP every four days than 1 IP every 3 days. And while you can try for 1 IP every other day, that becomes a stressful workload and guys start breaking down under it after a few weeks.
If the starters have an extra day of rest with a 6 man rotation you would hope they can get closer to 6 innings on average. It all depends on the quality of the starts and their stamina. I am still hoping they add a piece or two to the bullpen. We need at least one more BP arm that can provide consistently strong innings like Scott. Too many questionable pitchers in the bullpen. If Whitlock and Hendriks can come back strong we will be in good shape, but that is a big if.
Houck and Bello each were allowed to throw 100 pitches just five times last year. Pivetta through 100 pitches four times. Crawford just three times. Tough to average 6 IP when you rarely throw as many as 100 pitches. (Houck came close to that last year, the others didn’t.)
No chance they could up the pitch count with an extra day rest? Hopefully Bello will be better able to maximize his pitch count with another year under his belt. Houck was coming back from the injury so will hopefully have a full year healthy. Probably wishful thinking that the IP will go up much, but the bullpen has taken a beating the last couple of years with a lack of a true starting rotation due to injuries, trades, and free agents that did not amount to anything. Seems like the rotation should be better if most of them stay healthy.
Wait – As someone who spent many years with HS prospects throwing games in select tournaments it’s ridiculous how the pitches allowed have dropped. There is no excuse for a pitcher not to be able to throw 100 pitches on a regular basis and exceed six inning starts. The arm is fully capable of performing at that level if trained properly.
Skenes is extremely well educated because he attended great programs all through his youth and he’ll be a frequent Cy Young winner because he has trained properly from his early youth.
There is no reason that Houck, Crawford and Bello can’t put up 6 inning starts regularly. With Crochet and Buehler it’s going to come back to – Is their arm fully ramped up? Buehler should be but Crochet may be an issue due to his big jump in innings last year. The last thing Boston wants is for Cora to leave him in too long or correct his pitching mechanics because if Crochet were to need a second TJ and it happens before he’s a free agent, Cora should be shot.
I’m excited to see what Houck, Crawford and Bello can do this year. I’m also very curious to see if Whitlock can once again become the guy who keeps inherited runners from scoring and bails out the SPs that get in trouble. That would be huge. I also believe people will be very pleased with Hendriks.
The season took an about-face post ASG. The Sox pitched more bullpen games, and the leash on Bello got tighter. By that point I think Houck was already feeling the strain.
Cora used the bullpen as a crutch. It’s not the number of innings pitched by each relief pitcher, but how many relief pitchers were used over the course of that time.
I’m not opposed to the concept of a six man rotation used, at times, through the course of the year. June and August spring to mind, which will save some wear and tear.
The worry for me about the six man is the disconnection from pitching development. I’m not implying that every starter now pitches into the seventh, but Bello, Houck, Criswell, Crawford need to learn how to get big outs, be tenacious, how to “pitch”. That doesn’t happen now, and certainly wouldn’t in a six man.
This is a problem with both Bello and Crawford; they throw a lot of pitches early in the game as it seems like they don’t get loose or have a feel for their stuff til the 3rd or 4th inning and by then they are already 50-60 pitches in
I expect Bello will improve with experience. Less certain that Crawford has any upside from what he’s already done.
Another spring with Bailey to help them work out the kinks as well as having less pressure on them with the additions to the pitching staff may help. Certainly should not take the.m that long to settle into the game. Did not watch as many games as I would have liked so I was often relying on the box scores which don’t tell the whole story. Definitely would see more upside in Bello and maybe some of the new pitchers have an impact on him.
Wait – Why are you down on Crawford but not Bello? Crawford has performed better than Bello so far and more consistently. What stat tells the story that Bello is the better pitcher because I’m not seeing it.
Bello is younger, and performed very well in the second half. I believe he finally put things together last year and that we will see a full season of success this year.
I didn’t actually say Bello was better, just that Bello was more likely to improve over what he has already put up.
Criswell predicted this!
I can’t think of a dumber idea, give your top two starters fewer starts, what brilliant mind is behind this?
The idea Luke is for the pitchers to throw longer and despite the six man staff, such would be shortened for the playoffs should the team get there. Those pitchers who start then, while having the same or even more total pitches for the year should be better rested by the extra time between starts.
@Luke Strong Fewer, BETTER innings.
In any case, a hybrid approach is more manageable than anything else, and is less a “6-man rotation” than it is a “5-days rest rotation.”:
Using only your 26-man roster, aim to run a 6-man rotation w/ starters #1 through 6 whenever the schedule’s off days don’t let you run starters #1 through 5 on 5 days rest.
More off days in April, for example, make it easier to run a 5-man rotation in that month and still get starters 5 days rest. This keeps your 6th best starter in the bullpen, something you want to do as much as possible (makes sense, given he’s the worst starter of your front six) while maintaining the “5 days rest” approach to starting pitching.
(I’m also not aware of any pitching analysts who believe that the occasional start on four days rest causes significant problems–in short you don’t have to be rigid about the ‘5-days rest rotation’ if your #6 and 7 starters are out for a week or two with injuries and your #8 is significantly worse than your #5.)
As for July, the ASB creates a useful stretch of rest days, making a 5-man rotation more possible.
As for other parts of the season you can manipulate the guys with options (sorry, guys) and bring one up for a start every two weeks in order to create a de facto 6-man rotation while otherwise maintaining on your 26-man MLB roster the 5 starters, 8 relievers balance 13 days out of 14.
As the saying goes, “it’s a marathon, not a sprint”.
Longinus That’s exactly why you need your 1-2 starters pitching every 5th game. They’re the guys who determine the fate of the team.
JackStrawb
in short you don’t have to be rigid about the ‘5-days rest rotation’
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Should we be in a battle for 1st, or just for a wildcard, it is easier to arrange to have your best pitchers match up against a key opponent. Same with teams that have heavy lefty or righty hitting.
Looking around the game, the days of the workhorse starters making 34-35 starts per year are probably over. 51 Pitchers made at least 30 Starts last season, none made more than 33. Fewer starts by even your ace is the new normal nowadays
Between their bullpen and rotation, the amount of injury question marks is pretty incredible. They are like Dodgers East at this point.
The difference is that the Dodgers can outslug their opponents. The Yankees are also betting on SP depth after losing Soto.
Pretty much all pitching is an injury question mark, same could be said about any rotation in today’s game. All teams plan for 6-8 people to make 20ish starts and some boring bullpen days.
The schedule, match ups and injuries are what dictates the number of starts through a rotation. It’s fine to say you’re going with a 6 man rotay, but over the course of 4-6 weeks things will fall randomly if you have off days or rain or strained ankles.
Priority is to have 6-7 legit arms to use if anybody needs to skip a turn. Or has a good match up vs a particular team.
Lots of teams want to do this, but it just doesn’t make sense with the pitcher roster limit, unless you’re sure you can consistently get 6 IP almost every day, never have a doubleheader, never get anyone suspended for sticky stuff, etc. You’ll just shred your 7 bullpen arms. You can get away with it for a week or two if the schedule lines up but otherwise you’re overworking the pen and robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Well you just make sure that your young pitchers have minor league options. They need to stay in a routine to remain stretched out.
@D2323 I totally agree with you on that a 6 man rotation is tough to manage. Pirates attempted that feat and failed miserably in the second half. Jones and Priester before last year, never pitched 100 innings in one season. It was admirable attempt to reduce their workload, but it caused a huge imbalance. Reducing their work load, also meant going to the bullpen quickly as well. Rarely did we see a pitcher go 6+ innings with 6 man rotation. The Pirates ended up burning through their bullpen and had to promote and demote pitchers to get healthy and rested arms in the pen couple times a week. It was a nightmare to watch and why their bullpen ranked near dead last.
With that said, having depth options are a great idea. I hope Quinn Priester figures things out in the bullpen for the Red Sox. Kid has potential and has the makings of an elite pitcher. But he is on and off (more so off) so much, it brings a lot of concern when he touches the mound. When he is on his game, he’s one of the best pitchers in the game. When he is off, he’s a mendoza line pitcher. Hopefully Boston can get him to tap more into that potential and be a steady and surprising piece for the club. Kid has a gift, just utilising that gift on a consistent basis, is a problem.
Jones pitched over 120 innings in both 2022 and 2023 in the minor leagues, and Priester pitched about 150 in 2023, but I see what you mean. I could see Priester being solid, but he doesn’t have the current stuff to be elite. Low/mid-90s sinkerballer with a great curveball and okay slider. Could be a decent #4/5 starter or long reliever.
Not sure who you were watching but I seen nothing from Priester to suggest he’d be more than a 4-5 starter or long man. He just doesn’t seem to have the stuff and struggles to put away hitters.
I agree with everything else you said about the Pirates rotation though. It was really rough when Jones was hurt/being managed. Boston seems much more equipped with depth but having to constantly shuttle up and down minor league guys gets you in a lot of trouble. You’ll get a good outing sometimes but more often the guy gets shelled and loses you the game, or the chance to come back. That’s why when everyone raves about minor league deals being no risk, only depends on how quick you cut the cord if they are struggling. Dodgers found some good guys doing this but even they have a few guys who get hit around. Bad teams even more so.
How is Fullmer considered a credible MLB-caliber starter?
@thickiedon Look at Fulmer’s 2016-2017.
That’s how desperate teams are for innings. It’ll be 7=1/2 years ago as of the 2025 season but, hey! he’s done it before!!
He is not.
He’s not. He’s a lottery ticket that is not even on the 40-man roster. He’s a decent gamble with a career 4.00 ERA, 110 ERA+., but he is probably our #8 SP at best. Assume he will start the year on the IL/Minors.
he has a pulse
Honestly, they shouldn’t even sign “starters” or “relievers.” Starters hardly go 5 innings anymore as it is and the short arms in the bullpen get gassed by season’s end. Just staff 13 guys who can all throw at least 5 innings per week. That gets you 9.2 innings per game on a 7 game per week schedule. Keep rotating them in and out as the week goes where sometimes they start, sometimes they’re middle relief, and sometimes they even close. They’ll all get innings totals that equal what a starter would get in a season with “meaningless” stats like wins, holds and saves to pad their resume. Take Joe Mazzulla’s approach to 3’s…it’s just math.
Elite players will keep the traditional roles, but it’s shifting towards this. Might take another 10-15 years. Used to be you pitched a full game then it was a 4 man, then 5 while still getting the occasional guy throwing 220+ and now it’s moving towards 6 man and openers. Only able to do it with the extra roster spot, IL abuse, options and letting Brett Phillips eat a couple innings when you’re dusted
The way pitchers today overthrow between MPH and spin rate, the need to lengthen starts is more urgent than ever for the league should it wish to continue to shorten the length of the game by time without more artificial changes. Outside of the pitch clock, those changes (pizza box bases, allowing stupid mitts that lengthen the runner’s hand, limiting throws to a base to two and allowing players to wear protective armor at the plate) are ruining the game. Many of us remember when only a shin guard was allowed batting. A pitcher was able to control the inside of the plate while maintaining for the most part control.
Major league pitchers, and especially established starting pitchers are creatures of habit. There’s no way the veterans would ever willingly alter their weekly and GameDay preparations in order for everyone to pitchers an equal amount. That’s not even including the fact it just isn’t feasible based off late game situations and match-ups.
I don’t really have a better idea, so at least you made the effort, but I don’t see the players being on board with the idea.
The Rays have employed this mix and match approach for many years. The problem is, you cant get veterans to do this, and the reason is clear: guys that have succeeded with the Rays always get knocked for not having a ton of career innings and it significantly alters their pay.
They did it out of necessity too and with a lot of random guys/injury rehabbers who then went on to get injured when trying a normal schedule.
You made half of that up to fit your narrative and make yourself look smart, mate. The Rays always have veterans in their rotations and bullpens.
The Dodgers did this last year. I think the key to this is that you need a real #6. You can’t run out someone with a 5.00, or someone that fails to go 5 innings consistently. IMHO, Crawford looks good for this role. He’s had two pretty good B2B years.
@junkwax It’s just slop, and it’s absurd. Treating all pitchers as completely fungible regardless of how good or bad they are? Stop.
Good idea actually
Hint at landing Roki?
doubtful
I heard he didn’t want a meet with BoSox
hint is this……it rhymes with toe.
Pretty sure everyone is considering a 6 man rotation these days as every 3rd day is a bullpen game.
You need to assume some of those pitchers get/are hurt. They really need one more upside starter. Trade for Acantara and Jhron Duran.
All pitchers in today’s game have heightened injury risk but some think today we are better at managing pitchers.
Pitching today lacks workhorses, leads to more injuries, has flash in the pan relief stars that burn out quickly, and people actually brag about today’s pitching.
It’s not about bragging, it’s about the arms race of hitting and pitching approaches. As pitchers have been steered to maximize velocity and spin rate through more effort per pitch and mechanics tweaks, hitters have been forced to adapt their quality of contact. And, likewise, as hitters have improved their quality of contact to be more damaging, pitching has been forced to maximize swings and misses and strikeouts and reduced walk rates. And so on, and so on. It wouldn’t do any good for SPs to pace themselves as they used to, as they would get hammered and thus no go deep into games anyway. And it wouldn’t do any good for hitters to focus on contact rate, as the quality of contact would drop off and do far less overall damage.
It’s in the best interest of teams to get the most out of every hitter and pitcher, and it seems the organic development of this is that guys have to sacrifice quantity for quality and there is no way around it. It’s not a “bad” thing, in that there is no practical alternative.
The problem is that the numbers don’t work.
The average SP has a .761 OPS on his 3rd time thru. The average RP has a .697 OPS.. You have to play matchups and such, but managers aren’t giving away 64 OPS points.
In addition, almost every pitcher is coming with their best stuff. Stephenson got paid $33M/3 by the Angels based on 16 innings of great work with TB. 90% of the pitchers would ruin their arm for that type of money.
I think most of us assumed that the Red Sox would have to use quite a number of starters this coming year. With our entire rotation either injury prone, returning from an injury, or unproven at the major league level it was a given.
“Everybody’s Doin It !”
I think this would work better with 2 guys who piggy back, one goes 4 or 5 and the other finishes it off. That would be less stress on a bullpen that is down a guy because of this choice. That said I’m fairly sure that the only discussion of this has been we may do it ocassionally to give someone an extra day, but I don’t think anyone has committed to a long term 6 man rotation. Unless they are trying to lure a Japanese pitcher?
Mookie – Based on reports of good health, Sox will start the season with Houck, Bello, Crawford, Gio, Buehler and Crochet.
All of them should be starters, 3 of them returning from surgery makes a 6-man entirely reasonable. This is old news already extensively discussed here days ago.
I like the piggy back idea too.
It seems to make sense if you have 2 guys on limits (such as Walker & Lucas) you can pair them, if one goes 6, cool, the other gets 3, 4 or 5, that’s cool too.
And all the ‘real’ bullpen guys get a day off. They’d probably go 2 days every 5 under normal circumstances, which *seems* fine.
Piggyback idea works in theory but is not practical in most instances as teams will still mostly use their high leverage guys in the eighth and ninth innings.
The piggyback is a way better idea than a 7 man pen.
I just wonder what JH aka Mr Krabs is thinking. Why spend on injury prone players that actually come from TJ and their performance is uncertain and let the big proven guns go to other teams.
I get there’s been bad choices when it comes to long term contracts (Price, Panda, Crawford, etc) but man do your due diligence and check out the numbers, the performances, the age of those players and commit to pay them.
I am really embarrassed of being a Sox fan, we went from a top respected team to the Marlins…
The irony of your statement is that both the Marlins and Red Sox have had John Henry as the owner….
GaSox – And as a condition of the Marlins sale to Henry, payroll was slashed from 5th highest to 3rd lowest.
Henry is a financial guy and who looks for the net edge regardless. Where he fails is assuming Fenway will remain an attraction (it can’t be fun for Sox players to hear Dodger or other fans drown out Boston fans as it used to only be the Yankees and the same in the Bronx but not to the current extent). His attempt with Soto was only to drum up fan interest. Anyone with baseball chops new Soto was never going to Boston (or Toronto). I’m late to the argument because I still don’t believe Betts when he says he wanted to stay. Everything he said then was fine but his actions always said free agent after 20. I. hindsight I wish the Sox called his bluff and made the big offer then. The pandemic changed things and the Dodgers started their big machine with his signing. From being treated like royalty delivering on championships, Henry’s nearsightedness has destroyed the love most of us gave him. I would also love in the next few years to bring back Yawkey Way. Everyone has warts but Mr. Yawkey’s total body of work got lost in the shuffle. The Sox take credit today for their charitable Jimmy Fund work but whose brain child was that, connecting the team to such a wonderful cause? As far as I know, Mr.
Yawkey saved baseball in Boston AND was the principle influence in mating the team and the charity together.
Lots of starting pitching depth, 3 top 10 prospects in all of baseball that are bats and near ready. Long term commitments under control. Sizeable payroll. Talk about a dire situation.
“Forced to use a 7 man bullpen” – I get that the game has changed, but teams used a 7 man bullpen until the 26 man roster was very recently created. With a three batter minimum, not sure what the issue is here.
Jsk – Agreed! And teams relied on 5-6 man bullpens for many years.
In 1982 the Red Sox had 41 complete games from there rotation. In those days a pitching staff was 10 (5 starters and 5 in relief). Most pitchers were not throwing max velocity on every pitch, and the result was fewer injuries, and the starters went deeper in games. Rollie Fingers, of the A’s was one of the top relievers, and many (if not a majority) of his saves were multiple innings. Major League Baseball is simply a different game now! Maximizing pitching means higher velocities for shorter starts. This MUST result in having more multi inning relievers in the bullpen. Boston has stocked up on good depth starters which IMO will be used as bulk inning eaters in relief…. It is just the direction the MLB is headed….
MLB-1971
In 1982 the Red Sox had 41 complete games from there rotation.
Most pitchers were not throwing max velocity on every pitch,
=============================
According to BR, there were only 23 CG. 11 were by Eckersley, and 6 by Tudor.
And how do you know that they weren’t throwing max velocity?
Joe – Sorry, It was 1984 and 40 complete games.
1 Bruce Hurst – 9
2 Bob Ojeda – 8
3 Oil Can Boyd – 10
4 Al Nipper – 6
5 Roger Clemens – 5
6 Dennis Eckersley – 2
MLB – That was a very nice pitching staff. With Clemens being the high velocity guy, it makes sense he threw fewer CGs. Hurst, Ojeda and Boyd all did a great job changing speeds to get guys out. Max effort wasn’t how people pitched before velocity became a drug. Without max effort on every pitch, starters lasted long, there were less TJ surgeries and hitters needed to watch the corners more since the plate was often 6 inches wider than the black rubber suggested. Ah the good old days!!
This is not a bad idea to start the season with, especially if Giolito is healthy enough to make starts in April. It will let their starting pitchers get a little more rest to begin a long, 6 month season. Eventually, they will have to move back to a traditional 5 man rotation with one (or two) of their “Original 6” moving to a long relief role. They could alternate who that is to make sure everyone gets rest when they need it. Thankfully, they have enough depth at AAA in Priester, Fitts, Sandlin, etc. in case one or more of their starters has to go on the IL. All 3 of these pitchers have an option year left so they can be brought up and sent back down without having to risk using waivers. I don’t believe Criswell has any options remaining so he may have to start in the bullpen as the long man to get stretched out in case they need a few starts out of him later in the year.
Criswell has an option yr.
Criswell has an option remaining.
Two words: piggyback
A five-spot rotation with one spot piggybacked makes one game out of five a rest day for the bullpen.
Soak – Never gonna happen with Cora’s fixation on pitching matchups.
And you just can’t put a reliever on a fixed schedule.
They’ve got six starters, several of whom would benefit from shorter outings. No reliever needs to go on a fixed schedule. Ultimately, injuries will obviate the need for a six-man plan.
Soak – So on top of reducing each of the 6 starters workload from 32-33 starts down to just 27 starts, you want them to go only 5 innings per start? That means just 135 innings for the season, AND a 7-man bullpen would have to cover the additional 200+ innings combined. Sorry that makes zero sense.
If you consider all the “bullpen” games last year this idea is way better.
The last number listed for each player is options remaining after the 2024 season. At the bottom it states that players with 5+ years of MLB service must agree to be optioned.
19 Luis Perales Boston IFA 11/14/23 min min min arb arb arb 0.000 2
20 Greg Weissert Boston Trade 12/5/23 min min arb arb arb — 1.079 1
21 Justin Slaten Boston Rule 5 12/6/23 min min arb arb arb — 1.000 3
22 Cooper Criswell Boston FA 12/13/23 min m/a arb arb arb — 1.117 1
23 Vaughn Grissom Boston Trade 12/30/23 min min arb arb arb — 1.066 1
24 Lucas Giolito Boston FA 1/3/24 19.00 14.00 — — — — 7.080 1
25 Romy González Boston Waivers 1/31/24 min arb arb arb — — 2.083 2
26 Liam Hendriks Boston FA 2/19/24 6.00 12.00 — — — — 10.164 0
27 Quinn Priester Boston Trade 7/29/24 min min m/a arb arb arb 0.134 1
28 Nick Sogard Boston Trade 7/31/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.050 3
29 Chase Shugart Boston Draft 8/12/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.034 2
30 Luis Guerrero Boston Draft 9/6/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.024 3
31 Richard Fitts Boston Trade 9/8/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.022 3
32 Zach Penrod Boston MLFA 9/14/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.016 3
33 Justin Wilson Boston FA 11/14/24 2.25 — — — — — 11.035 0
34 Hunter Dobbins Boston Draft 11/19/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.000 3
35 Jhostynxon Garcia Boston IFA 11/19/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.000 3
36 Aroldis Chapman Boston FA 12/10/24 $10.75 — — — — — 14.009 0
37 Garrett Crochet Boston Trade 12/11/24 arb arb — — — — 4.028 3
38 Carlos Narvaez Boston Trade 12/11/24 min min min arb arb arb 0.038 2
39 Patrick Sandoval Boston FA 12/23/24 $5.50 $12.75 — — — — 4.149 1
40 Walker Buehler Boston FA 12/28/24 $21.05 — — — — — 6.168 2
OPT – options remaining after the 2024 season. Players with 5+ years service time require player permission before being optioned
Red Sox are sneaky deep.
Ah, the six-man rotation. A marvel of modern overthinking, I see. In my day, the idea of giving pitchers an extra day of rest would’ve earned you a swift dismissal—and possibly a solid cuff to the ear from your manager. You didn’t coddle arms like they were porcelain dolls; you sent your best out there, told them to “throw strikes,” and let the chips fall where they may. The very notion of resting a man who’s supposed to be a professional athlete reeks of the kind of soft-handed management that’s turning this once-great sport into a bureaucratic slog.
The Red Sox claim they have “depth,” but this laundry list of injured arms and unproven names looks more like a hospital ward than a pitching staff. Giolito? Buehler? Crochet? All fine pitchers—when they’re not busy recovering from elbow surgeries or nursing innings limits. Postseason aspirations, they say? Hard to make a deep run when your rotation is too busy with “load management” to pitch more than five innings. Depth isn’t about how many names you can list; it’s about reliability, grit, and knowing who can take the ball when it matters.
And let’s talk about this bullpen circus. A seven-man bullpen to accommodate your precious six-man rotation? Laughable! Back in the ‘30s, we had three reliable relievers, and one of them was probably still hungover from the night before. These days, the bullpen is stuffed with pitchers throwing 100 mph who can’t last an inning without needing a massage and a pep talk. The idea of stuffing relievers into a rotation or rotating them into multiple roles “as needed” sounds like a recipe for chaos.
What this truly shows is that modern baseball executives have forgotten the essence of the game. They’ve turned it into a spreadsheet exercise, forgetting that players aren’t just numbers. They’re men with arms and hearts—and sometimes those arms need a little pain, and those hearts need a little fire. The Red Sox might think they’re trailblazing with their six-man folly, but in reality, they’re just softening the sport. Give me a four-man rotation, a complete game, and a bullpen that doesn’t need flowcharts any day.
Mark my words: by August, when half this so-called depth is on the IL and the bullpen is gassed, they’ll be scrambling for answers. Meanwhile, some scrappy team with a rotation of iron men will be barreling toward October glory the way baseball was meant to be played.
In your day, today’s workload, which is far more difficult to sustain, and SS’s who hit 30 HR would have given Tom Seaver Jim Bouton’s career: Something like two brilliant seasons then reduced in his 20s and early 30s to trying to develop a knuckleball to compensate for a ruined arm.
Put another way, if Seaver threw to today’s hitters the way he threw in the 1960s and 70s, he’d have a 5.50 ERA and be out of baseball in short order.
He’d either adapt, throwing 170 innings a year with maximum effort, or he’d be gone.
For God’s sake, please let the next sox post be about signing a bat. O’Neil is gone and so are his 31 hrs.
Gator – Bregman is basically the only remaining bat, as Santander is not a good fit. Nobody really wants Bregman though if Devers stays at 3B.
JT woukd be a mistake, JD wouldn’t be a good fit.
Doubt you were watching baseball in the ’30s. And like nearly everything else from nearly a century ago, baseball has changed
Red Sox considering 6th place in division
A hybrid approach is more manageable than anything else, and is less a “6-man rotation” than it is a “5-days rest rotation.”:
Using only your 26-man roster, aim to run a 6-man rotation w/ starters #1 through 6 whenever the schedule’s off days don’t let you run starters #1 through 5 on 5 days rest.
More off days in April, for example, make it easier to run a 5-man rotation in that month and still get guys 5 days rest. This keeps your 6th best starter(s) in the bullpen, something you want to do as much as possible (makes sense, given he’s the worst starter of your front six) while maintaining the “5 days rest” approach to starting pitching.
As for July, the ASB creates a useful stretch of rest days, making a 5-man rotation more possible.
As for other parts of the season you can manipulate the guys with options (sorry, guys) and bring one up for a start every two weeks in order to create a de facto 6-man rotation while otherwise maintaining on your 26-man MLB roster the 5 starters, 8 relievers balance 13 days out of 14.
Jack- when you consider the 6 people in this rotation do you think your system is too equitable to all. I am far more worried about innings with Buehler, Giolito and Crochet since he jumped his innings a lot in 2024 and the last time he did that he need TJ surgery. Maybe you could tweak your suggestion to assist the three in more need of help than Houck, Crawford and Bello.
It’s just a matter of moving it in and out according to the schedule. Can’t do it all the time when so many do 5 and out. And most of Cora’s move fall on pitch count. But insert a #6 and it breaks the consecutive games played scheduled when the starters need a low especially in the second half of the season!
Need to spend on two more top relievers and Bring in Bregman! We would be doing great for the next 5 to 10 years! We need a winner on this team to lead! The problem is John Henry!
Aside from a six man rotation, the Red Sox should consider a 4 man outfield and 10 men total in the field- think anyone would notice if they routinely snuck a man on the field for defense? Don’t think the umpires are trained to count that high and their clickers only register balls strikes and outs. Many drunken Boston fans would just think they were seeing double. Master of the upper hand Cora should come up with something.
SPEND THE MONEY ON BREGMAN FOR 2B/3B THEN SCOTT
That would require 6 guys who are consistently good enough to start games. Go to 4 man if anything
Someone smarter than me will figure out how to employ a 4 man rotation with 3 swingmen, 1 low leverage reliever, 2 bridge guys, 2 setup men and a Closer.
The swing men get employed based on match ups and effectiveness of the 4 man rotation, I guess.
The system is broken.
Wilbur Wood would be turning in his grave if he wasn’t still alive.
I would prefer a 4 man rotation of Burns,Snell houcke. and fried.
Yoshida for Montgomery?
This again? Seriously, how many time are the stooges who run front offices going to try to recreate the wheel? How many more times is someone going to try, and fail, implementing a 6 man rotation?
Reminds me of Rotaries being used instead of intersections. We had them years ago and by the late 80’s they were getting big up and intersections would be put in their place – because rotaries had so many issues. Fast forward to 2010’s and, low and behold we’re implementing rotaries once again as if we never learned anything from it the last time we had them.
We’re a species with amnesia… lol
6 man rotations usually work themselves out. Someone out performs for that last spot and wins it or an injury occurs. It takes a lot of pitching to get through a season. I love the braves but if they dont get a pitcher and an outfielder soon they are gonna have a 3-4 man rotation backed by a 2 man outfield until after the all star break.
Sirius – In 2024 Giolito never pitched, Bello was hurt in the spring, and Whitlock was out for the season after 4 starts. IF all 6 starters are healthy and ready to go coming out of spring training, I would be shocked! Even if they are, it will not last long.
The 2004 Red Sox had five starters with 29 or more starts, won the WS. The next year the White Sox did similar, and they won the WS. Good health (and talent, lol) helps to win championship.
Yes, I have heard about last season’s Dodger rotation….
Michael Fuhlmer starting? That’s a stretch.
Michael Fulmer is like 12th on the depth chart. If he is starting it is because the team’s plane crashed and no one made it….
Since the team started with three young and healthy starters in Houck, Crawford and Bello (should be fully healthy opening day), why didn’t the front office make an effort to get two studs that were also healthy? That way we didn’t have to spend so much time trying to evaluate how to implement a 6 man rotation where 3 guys are very injury prone and 3 guys are not (our original three)?
This isn’t new. This has everything to do with hiring inexperienced GMs and an unqualified Manager. The problem you are trying to fix shouldn’t exist except some very bad hiring choices have been made the last 5 years. Maybe we should fix the root problem so we don’t have so many secondary problems?
The infrastructure of any organization is critical to success. Boston continues to be in deep trouble with a broken infrastructure.. Winning isn’t on the horizon because of all the bad choices made in the last 5 years. Maybe we should ask Mookie about the Red Sox infrastructure? He’s got two more rings since he left.
Maybe he could tell us what’s missing since the obvious doesn’t seem to be so obvious to many fans. Band-aids when you need surgery isn’t going to cut it.