The Pirates designated infielder Tristan Gray for assignment, the team informed reporters (including Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette). Pittsburgh had not officially added Andrew McCutchen to their 40-man roster until this evening, so they needed to open a spot. McCutchen re-signed on a $5MM deal last month.
Pittsburgh claimed Gray off waivers from the A’s in the first few days of the offseason. The 28-year-old had spent a couple months on the A’s, as they’d only claimed him from the Marlins at the end of August. Gray has suited up for both those teams and had a brief stint on the Rays in 2023. Despite playing for a trio of clubs, he has just 17 games of MLB experience. He has hit .152 with one homer in 36 plate appearances.
The lefty-hitting Gray has a much more extensive minor league track record. The Rice product has taken nearly 1800 trips to the dish across four Triple-A seasons. Gray has hit .238/.306/.472 with 90 home runs in 443 games at the top minor league level. Strikeouts have kept him from getting an extended MLB look, as he has fanned in nearly 30% of his Triple-A plate appearances.
Gray has some power and a decent amount of defensive versatility. He has upwards of 1000 minor league frames at each of shortstop, second base and third base. Gray has just over 900 professional innings at first base as well. He has mostly played the corner infield in his limited big league time. He’s likely to end up on waivers again this week. Gray has been outrighted once in his career, so he’d have the ability to elect minor league free agency if he goes unclaimed.
The Pirates misspelled McCutchen (McCuchen) at Piratesfest over the weekend.
Someone needs to be fired
That’s not even close to being fired worthy. Just ask Williams Cherington Haines. Pretty much have to be the worst hitting coach or scouting director in baseball for multiple years to get fired.
Ridiculous lol. Nutting didn’t use any pirates inc to print it. He waited until they got to convention center and used their ink. Or made the unpaid intern print them up at home using their own ink.
Think about how much ink they saved.
If you look at the photo it’s obviously been photo shopped.
They used Microsoft Paint, not Photoshop. Can’t afford no Adobe.
Actually they missed the h. Printer needs fired
Every senior level manager was at this thing, all of them let it slip.
Plus, does that guy really need a sign?
Guapo is my pug’s name
Robert Nutting is that you?
Take your victory lap North side. I had your back on this buddy.
But, I’m just arrogant without facts according to TheMan.
Your buddy said that Cutch hadn’t been signed yet
The article clearly says he was signed last month
I’m the person who was relaying publicly that McCutchen wasn’t official yet.
There is a difference between agreed and signed. He had agreed, but not yet signed. He is now signed, thus on the 40-man roster.
That’s all that happened. The team announced an agreement, not a signing.
Does that make him 50 shades freed…
Free to go over seas
So out of Hayes, Yorke, Gonzalez and Palacios, do three of them start on Opening Day?
Going into the season with this right field situation again is sad. They traded for someone they thought would be an upgrade, literally had to be an better than a .170 hitter and De La Cruz was in fact worse.
Maybe Palacios or Suwinski figure things out, not holding my breath at this point, and don’t think either should be handed the job. Yorke, maybe. Still young, but can he hit enough out there?
Just sign someone like Grichuk or Verdugo to at least be a more proven commodity.
I can see Yorke taking over third if Hayes is cooked, or if they just want to use IKF as utility or trade him. They also have Triolo who’s the same player but a bit lesser hitter.
Hayes was “cooked” before his back problem. They signed him as “the cornerstone of the franchise” and all he’s been is a bust, a guy who’s tried to play his way out of town. Yeah, solid glove. Great. Triolo has the same.
People keep talking about Suwinski as if there is some spark they’ve seen recently that fuels the hope. If anyone is “ cooked,” it’s likely him
70-72 win team. Nothing more
Read Madden’s column in today’s Trib. Speaks volumes as to what a joke this owner and franchise are
Triolo is probably an equivalent replacement for Hayes even when he is at near his best.
I gave up on Hayes pretty much, but the year before he was actually quite a bargain. Over 50 extra base hits with great D.
And Suwinski, while a low BA player, had a fit as a guy with a good eye and pretty good power.
Both just fell off entirely. Possibly Suwinski can be fixed with the right coaching. His at bats are very patient but he looks at too many called third strikes.
@DUQDuke. If hayes gets his bat to anywhere near league average and play 120 game. He would be one of the top 3bs in the league. Even with a 60ops+ he still was in a positive WAR in ’24
2022 and 2023 reflect that. to a lesser extent 2021 as well.
The question is if 2024 was a fluke with lingering injuries or is he just done?
Given his price tag it is worth finding out but if someone will give you real value for him in a trade, putting triolo in would likely be an upgrade over 2024.
Suwinski good eye? in 2023 when he was good he was number two in the worst K%. You expect batters who sell out for power to K more but dang, 32% is crazy. Two be fair he did have one of the higher walk rates.
No Jelly? Hayes toast.
Gonzales is perfectly average at 2b. Will start until someone beats him. Was never developed to his ceiling. If he somehow could develop himself more. I say he because I doubt he will trust them to develop him. He was a total bust failed prospect until he taught himself and saved his Pirates career. He’s a solid outfielder if the bat ever plays there and if he would need to move.
Holy crap… I opened the page and saw Tristan in the headline. Was gonna rage post…!
They have another six guys who also can easily be designated.
They also have three upper level management personnel who could easily be designated.
My guess is they have given Grichuk an offer but he is waiting for at least an equivalent one from another team.
Grichuck and Profar are the safe upgrade targets, but really they could put colin moran in center field and probably be an upgrade. (/s)
Canha seems like decent buy low option(?) if those two are out of the picture and they are looking to sign and OF.
I count 10.
baring other moves, Gray will probably get an extensive look. A power bat the team needs. Also a strike out machine that the team has plenty of so…. +/-
TheMan and his defenders are quiet tonight.
I like TheMan3 so I have to ask, quiet about what?
Like Mendoza, me and a few others, he’s been a fan since his dad took him to games in the Forbes Field era. He knows baseball and has been a lifelong fan of a franchise that now has the worst ownership in all of sports
Other than his style of posts here and the fact he doesn’t suffer fools, exactly what is he wrong about? And again, quiet about what, exactly?
Hey may have valid thoughts but if you don’t agree with them it can get a bit rude. but you know, that is just my opinion man.
He may know the Xs and Os of baseball, but he doesn’t understand the business side. As I said before, McCutchen was no longer a FA after agreeing to a contract last month, but he didn’t count against the 40-man until yesterday when the Pirates made it official. Hence the dfa of Gray and new article.
Maybe. But I suspect TheMan3 understands the business side as well as anyone here, if not more so.
I guess I’m a little taken aback as to how something as petty as this has blossomed into such a “thing”. I mean, who cares, really?
Meanwhile, maybe I’m a different kind of dinosaur here. I’d be happy with a . 500 team that hustles and gives everything, every time out
But with an owner and GM who simply don’t care for such a thing and a manager who won’t demand hustle, passion and professionalism from the kids, that won’t happen soon
As for “Cutc” his comments about being a team leader in the clubhouse this coming year were hilarious. I like the guy. I’m glad he’s a Pirate. But he’s never been a Pops Stargell type.
70-72 wins this year. Bank on it
Can’t blame Cherington for anything. He fell on the sword. Admitted the failure was all his fault. Nutting was just too stupid or too cheap to fire him.
Abandon ship Bob. Sell the team!
Hillbilly Billionaire Bob bought all kind of property around PNC to act as entertainment areas for Pirates fans. One plaza will be open in time for the season. Rejoice!
I don’t think the profiteering carpetbagger is going to sell anytime soon, unless he gets a visit from Luca Brazzi
I’m glad he bought property because other teams have this and it’s big $ for them.
Lol! He wasn’t right about this. It matters because he’s presenting the wrong information as if it were fact and you fell for it.
No, NorthShore. On the contrary, I gave it about 15 seconds of thought—ten too many—and moved on. I’m not defending TheMan3, I just don’t know why it’s a big deal
Again, it matters because of the business side of baseball. You may not care, but some do. I do. The truth matters. He presented false information as fact. Until yesterday, Gray was still on the 40-man when McCutchen was officially signed by the Pirates.
NorthShore, I get it
“What does it matter?” Is code for, as a fan, what do I care? This is no “dream team” where we should hang on every word about the roster. It’s a roster of scrap save for a few players
I understand your point.
Duq- It seems to me that Stargell was mostly a leader by example,but may very well had influential talks with wayward players.
I doubt that Cutch ever did that.
Managers should be much tougher than Shelton,but the good teams have one or two enforcers in the clubhouse.
With all due respect to the Steelers,they are lacking in the President,GM,and coach categories as much as the Pirates are.They have had way too many prima Donna’s over the last six years. The GM is to blame for getting them,and the coach for putting up with it.
North Shore-I check the roster out on a routine basis.Up until now they had plenty of openings so Cutch was on the list.
Some of us do not look at specifics like you obviously do.
But most of us would not argue with someone who seems to know what he is talking about.
But if it was not something that would bother Alfred E Neumann,I do not bother too much about it.
I have learned not to sweat the small stuff.
Once again, I’m in complete agreement with all of this
I have a couple personal stories I’ll keep to myself about Stargell. I wasn’t a fan. But he and Bill Robinson had a big hand in bringing some real personalities on that ‘79 team together
We’ve discussed Shelton before. Many take issue with his strategies or lack thereof. Some don’t like his lineups. To me, his worst managerial quality is coddling instead of confronting lack of hustle, unprofessional play
Once again we agree.
And I think that I know what you mean about Stargell as I heard rumors many years ago.
But as a baseball player,he was great,and I wish that the Pirates could clone him for now.
There was press about the White Sox in 1966 offering either Joel Horlen or Gary Peters for him,and I am glad that Joe Brown was in charge and did not make that trade.
I love theman but he is still arguing and going on about the article today! The very 1st paragraph says what northshore said a few days ago. Looks like Paul was wrong again! Theman needs to man up and admit failure!
But Dream, while I hear ya, what does it matter?
It matters because I enjoy messing with Paul.
I can’t do anything about it here. But at my house if 2 people have a disagreement. It’s 2 men enter 1 man leaves.
Dream GM-Unlike you youngsters,Paul Duq,and I prefer to test ourselves not by fighting but by seeing who can make the fastest pop up times from our barcoloungers without seriously pulling a muscle!☺️☺️
With the amount of snow I’ve been shoveling, these last few nights found me needing a forklift to get off the couch and I’m not even overweight
I compared you guys to grandpa throwing out runners. They guy can still be not only a good but great backup catcher except that he can’t throw out runners.
I would have fired Williams Cherington Shelton. Hired Grandpal as manager. Don’t care who my new gm wants as manager they are getting Grandpal. All these young pitchers and catchers and he knows them all. Perfect fit.
I think Pittsburgh will sign him to minor league deal. Unfortunately it will become mlb deal because even though he can’t throw out runners he’s still better than Davis Delay. Sad but True. Davis is a bat 1st above average catcher. Just have little faith in Pirates developing him to that.
You be careful on that young man.
Snow shoveling causes numerous heart attacks on over 60 year olds.
I figure that you are smart enough to know that but I wanted to make sure.
Most of you will see this as defending the Pirates. But the hard truth is there hasn’t been many players they could have signed or traded for. Prices have been crazy high. Like if I was running a 200m payroll team I wouldn’t want to pay them. Pirates could afford to give Winker 10m but would you want to? I wouldn’t. Santander signed for a fair price. I wouldn’t and Pirates can’t afford to give up the draft pick to sign him. Kyle Tucker would have been a all in move. Houston wanted Parades though who is perfect bat for their park. And the prospect they gave up would have been like giving up Griffin. Except near mlb ready so pirates wouldn’t have a comparable prospect either.
Good news they got 2/3 of a 1b. Addressed the pen. Only need a outfielder. 3 above average ones are left. 2 good really veteran weak platoons are left. See if they do something.
Dream GM- They still need to add though.They only have four weeks left.This division is the weakest that it has been in years,and a fourth place finish is not an acceptable goal.
Profar Grichuk Verdugo Canha Pillar all still available. Some relievers still available.
I agree they need to add. Everyone is still available. Except Tauchman. No idea why no one was interested in him. Not exciting but better than anyone we have.
They could have afforded Winker. But it would have cost 10m. I would graded that a D at best. Kepler D. Just so expensive. Market too expensive for small markets. Have to let the big dogs eat then we can come in and grab some scraps.
It’s not defending the Pirates. It’s simply swallowing the fat-filled baloney they’re feeding the public. If you believe in the small market/limited finances myth, you’re lost
It’s not that average Pirates fans thought Soto would come here. Or even Bellinger. Or that Alonso is looking for homes in Sewickley as we speak
There are any number of middling outfielders or first basemen they *could have* signed but instead, decided to hoard profits, as usual
And no, there is no reason to name names for you because no matter who is listed, you’ll provide the company line
PiratesFest by all accounts was a clown show. The hillbilly billionaire didn’t show but his annual propaganda speech from Bradenton is coming soon. The hockey guy who is president and the in-way-over-his-head GM gave the typical remarks that I’m sure made sense to you from a finances standpoint. And Skenes saying they’re all buying in? “Cutc’s” remarks about being a leader? Hysterical
Nutting is laughing all the way to the bank and is astute enough to know that Cuban is right when he stated that selling the franchise would be insane
No need to provide names because I will tell you why they weren’t happening. Like I wanted Goldschmidt. I think he is worth 12m. But don’t believe he would have signed with Pirates for 12m. He signed with the 2nd best odds to win iconic Yankees for 12m. I like Santana. 12m is a lot for him. But he wouldn’t come here for that. He loves Cleveland. Could have afforded Kepler Winker. Would have been massive over pays though. I like Conforto. Not for 17m and would have taken 20m to get him in Pittsburgh. Name away. There was nothing available.
Tauchman who they should’ve signed but he is just average. And Naylor but I’d rather have Horowitz. Name away but just remember Pittsburgh is losers and players like winners so add millions more to whatever they signed for.
Now I understand. Thanks for the clarification
Apologies for misreading the tea leaves
Yeah it’s not that I don’t want these players. It would just take a massive overpay bad contract. Yankees or Dodgers vs Pirates? That’s a easy choice. Only advantage Pittsburgh has is taxes. Winning endorsements all better. Pnc isn’t a good hitters park so if you are trying the 1 year rebuild your value it’s one of the worst places you can go. Santana probably hold grudge Pirates didn’t sign him last year for 5m. Guys been to Seattle Philly KC Pittsburgh Minnesota Milwaukee but kept his house in Cleveland the entire. Guess when he sold it? 1 week before Cleveland signed him this off season! Bad luck. But yeah if you give the 40 year 17m I am sure he would put aside his love of Cleveland. And Nutting could afford 17m. Maybe it only takes 15m. Still a absolutely awful contract. Horowitz makes 700k. And you have him for 6 years.
Santander would be perfect. That draft pick could be Bubba Jones Keller though. Whoever they take with that pick will instantly be a top 15 prospect. Maybe top 10. I’d also rather take that $ and that’s a Reynolds Keller extension. Much better value. And a Grichuk Winker platoon is almost as good as Santander. Would be better off doing that.
Sure if you ignore $ and losing draft picks there’s players who would help.
Any owner in Pittsburgh market would only spend 100m. Cleveland Milwaukee make more $ than Pittsburgh and never spent more than 130m. No small market has. New owner wouldn’t help at all financially. They wouldn’t spend more than 130m either. Probably not more than 110m. Eventually that number should go up because of inflation and more revenue but so will large markets teams so a the same.
You have to spend that $ perfectly. No room for error.
Dream GM is not just another pretty face.
Ok, you’ve expounded completely here and u get the thinking now. It’s not so much that guys don’t want to come here, they just will charge more as they know how desperate the Pirates are
And the Pirates conversely are faced with overpay or just stay the course
I can see that. Not that I agree with being tightwads but your rationale makes a great deal of sense
Most guys will go where they can make the most $. But if the $ is only a bit more they will take less to be where they prefer to live or win games. And winning means more $ because the deeper you go into the playoffs the more $ you make. And the same reason why Anderson Quintana Perez Hill will sign with Pittsburgh is the same reason hitters would prefer not to. Like I am sure you would work for less $ if you didn’t have to move or if it was a shorter drive or there was more room for advancement. Besides your actually salary you value other things as well. And as employer I think you are better. But this Horowitz and Grichuk guy are much cheaper and still productive employees. And my 2 managers Skeenes and Cruz are going to be needing a raise if I want to keep them. I can’t get and keep all of you so I have to choose what I feel is the best bang for my buck.
Anyone who gets a qualifying offer is automatically eliminated. Pirates can afford to lose draft picks and signing $. Santander Walker never happening.
Maybe Nutting can’t afford more than 100m. Maybe he can afford 150m but simply won’t. It does matter because other small markets run the same way financially.
I figure you already understand completely. Just I got free time. Awesome we are all on at same time to talk ball. And want to be crystal clear so we don’t have another rebuild over mess.
If I was gm of Pirates I would have went Horowitz over Goldschmidt Santana Naylor Lowe. Walker Alonso never possiblity because of losing draft pick. I would have signed Ferguson. I would have signed Tauchman but I just have a man crush on him. Big mistake I think but we will see. Grichuk is much better so hopefully they get him or Profar. Verdugo is fine as long as his hands don’t rot off. Always the always rumored Ward trade.
I’m going to go out on a limb and predict they sign none of these guys and instead get Tellez-types.
I can’t see Grichuk signing here if the Giants are in the mix
Profar is talking to the Jays and really, after his renaissance season in SD, how would the Pirates afford him?
And just when I was onboard with Winker…..
I appreciate your insights here. I suspect things are a bit more stringent here for Cherimgton, for whatever reason. I’m not defending his hiring and standing by Shelton. I think his player development department is the worst. But I have to think he’s handcuffed by Nutting where signings are concerned
I’d sign Canha. Gives us a all star 1b. And Pillar stull hits lhp and late inning defense. Those guys are Nutting guys. Would be disappointing to fans but huge surplus value.
Anything else is bonus. Least excited about Verdugo.
If they can’t get realistic Grichuk or fantasy Profar. I think they need to make a trade.
Cherington handcuffed himself. 1 with awful player development. 2 only average ability to identify talent. 3 hesitation to make bigger moves. Payroll is a distant 4. And Nutting is irrelevant. No small market owner spends. Nutting may be one of or the cheapest but 5 or 10 million in payroll isn’t making enough difference.
A key player for Mets was Winker. Cherington went Cruz instead. Key player for Yankees Hill. Cherington could have got him for absolutely nothing. Yeah those teams have high payroll. But they also drafted and developed Judge Alonso. They drafted signed developed the prospects they used to trade for Soto Lindor. All with much less $ and much later draft picks. And fewer draft picks. And Nutting spends on prospects. As much or more than anyone. He didn’t get cheap on Skenes TJ Konnor. Only cheap on Davis so he could get Bubba. Takes so many highschool players in rounds 2 3 4 that cost much more than college guys. Only thing I blame Nutting for is not firing Cherington. Nutting is truly awful at marketing himself. He shouldn’t be loved but shouldn’t be this hated. He just doesn’t care what his customers think about him. Because he could still change fans opinions about him.
Imagine if he had a press conference and said something like this. I fired Cherington. He is a good man and a good leader but just not the perfect fit for the Pittsburgh pirates. He done some fantastic things like extending our young talented players. Building one of the best rotations in baseball. But it’s been 6 years and we haven’t won. And I want to win. Laugh away. I know there is a portion of the fans who think I am Mr Burns from the Simpsons and for those fans guess what? I make so much more $ when we win from the attendance and playoff revenue. So either way you see me I want to win as much as anyone. That’s why we will be hiring a new gm and will keep doing so until we find that perfect person.
What you think? I’d be like wow. Finally some straight honest talk. Some personality. And it’s true. The more the Pirates win the more $ Nutting makes. He wants to win more than anyone.
Guys just too stupid to have a frank conversation with his customers. Too stupid to fire Cherington. Fans wanted Shelton gone at very least. I didn’t see anyone pounding the table to keep Cherington. Firing them would have been celebrated. You have that new honeymoon of hope. I gave Nutting too much credit on the business ability. Heck of accountant. He can pinch those pennies. Awful at marketing though.
Bob is too obtuse to be a leader and too uneducated about the ML players,management personnel,and basic knowledge of baseball to ever really be fully involved in owning the Pirates.
I think that in his own way he tries to put a good team out but does not care unless they have a good team to spend to get even better.
Consequently,he basically treats it as any other business in focusing on the bottom line.
I do have to say though that in my opinion there are not many free agents who justify spending anywhere near what they are making.They are not guaranteed to perform anywhere close to their previous record.
Who pays for it?
The fans.
I like both commentaries here and see a great deal of merit in each where describing the current state of the Pirates is concerned
Working backward, Mendoza tends to enunciate my views about Nutting quite nicely where being an average fan is concerned. I would agree that his only concern is what he sees in the ledger each day. Everything else is small details. I would agree he knows little about baseball, its nuances or how to capably run a front office. As long as that cash register is ringing. Dream once called him a Hall of Famer where finances are concerned. I’d agree
Aside from a Simpson’s comment that I can’t identify with as I’ve never seen an episode, I like Dream’s descriptive rendering, as well. Ok, I’ll agree in principle about smaller market spending, but the description here is of the gray area none of us know. That is, just what the parameters are in which Cherrington must conduct business. Are there minute details we can’t imagine? Is there a dollar figure which is the line in the sand? If so, it would help to have some idea so as to judge the GM here
And yet, Dream assails Cherrington’s failings quite well here. Yes, the player development program has been an abject failure. And finally, Dream touches of failed scouting, which I would put more on his staff than on him individually
Still, he does the hiring and must be accountable.
The Pirates are in a real predicament here, one that should have been addressed with the simple addition of guys like Winker. Maybe they’ll still pull a rabbit out of their hat. But while the rebuild may indeed be over with the next not coming until post Skenes, they have little firepower in this lineup and no cavalry coming over the hill
To average Pirates fans, it would appear that the only decision that’s been made this off season via their actions is to simply dog-paddle to perhaps making a run at a wild card berth in a pathetically average NL. It might only take a .500 season
But to me, this is a 70-72 win team with real problems in the front office
I would be embarrassed to own the Pirates as long as Nutting and know so little about baseball. I’d want to have a solid understanding of every part of it. Guy knows nothing about baseball. Example Cherington is still here. If you have bottom 5 payroll you need top 5 development. Cherington admitted development stinks and it’s his fault. You have to fire him.
There’s no need for a rebuild. Just fire Cherington and get a gm who knows how to hire people. You are betting on a guy who thinks Haines Shelton are good! You have the most talented prospect since Bonds and you are going to let Cherington Shelton Haines develop him!
Bob Nutting is the only problem. Cherington is just collecting pay check. He screamed to be fired but Bob refused to do so.
Nutting provides enough $. Cherington had 15m last year and blew it on Chapman and washed up outfielder.
Same tv deal. Attendance went up. Payroll lower than it was last year. Should be $ to spend. Enough for Grichuk Canha and reliever.
Pirates were 83 84 win team last year if pen didn’t fall apart. Will be better at 1b and outfield. So pushing 90 wins. Just a matter of how many wins they bleed. Bullpen falls apart it’s down to 80. Reynolds or Cruz get hurt it’s 76. Skenes or Keller it’s 72. Last year is pretty much the best it gets with injuries. Odds are they aren’t as fortunate this year.
If you have bottom five payroll, you need top five development.
Well stated. I like that phrase
I’m of the belief that Nutting’s genius comes in other sectors, from finance to investing to the hospitality industry to newspapers. Only so much you can cram in your head so go with the essentials: profit margins, expenditures, losses
I understand your thinking about Cherrington. I’d wonder who the Pirates could possibly draw here.
Your prognosticating about the coming season incorporates a great many best case scenarios. Aside from injury, any number of things could quickly derail this team. First off is the fact that they have one legitimate hitter in Reynolds. I want to like Cruz but his mechanical issues make him a candidate to drop off greatly
Other than these two, you hope.
You hope Nick is a decent hitter again
You hope Bart is who we saw last year
You hope “Cutc” can hit some more homers
And you pray the combination of Horwitz, Jack, Endy, Davis, Hayes, IKF can have little hot streaks here and there
It’s hard to believe they won’t grab at least one FA before the season
But it’s harder to see them winning more than 72
I like Mendoza get 76 3 years in a row would be something. If things go great around 500. It’s the same exact team so no reason they can’t win same exact number of games. Sign Grichuk Canha and a reliever I like their chances at 500. Be aggressive with pitching prospects and get some luck and see if you can snag a wild card.
Winning would be a nightmare though. Cherington Shelton will be extended.
Hire any young mind from a smart organization. If no improvement in 2 years fire and hire. Repeat until you find the one. You’re still “contending” in 2025 2026 2027 because rebuild is over. These teams are set. Anyone would come. Being the gm of Pirates is better than being lower than gm on the 29 other teams. Nutting likes hockey guys, hire a hockey gm. I never watched much hockey. Haven’t watched it at all in years. After 1 year I would be YourDreamHockeyGM. I would learn what makes good players. What makes winning teams. I would create formulas. They could do same thing. It’s more about talent and creativity. I don’t want experience. Dombroski Cherington both have experience. A rich team can buy the good experience. A Nutting team has to settle for mediocre experience.
Duq- I agree with you about Cutch.
I also think that he clogs up the DH position.
It was just a safe re-sign of a contract.
I did not appreciate Santana for his intrinsic leadership attributes.
Too bad Shelton does not have them.
I do think that Pittsburgh should sign Grichuk and Finnegan as previously stated.This would put them in a possible mix to at least have a winning season.They can easily spend $15-20 M for them.But neither may want to come here.And Nutting clearly does not want to add just to meet that goal.
I also predicted the Yates signing.The Dodgers are doing the sport a favor by all of this nonsense.At a certain point they have signed the best so others cannot have them to help them to compete against the Dodgers.
I honestly think though at this point that the better players do not want to sign with the Pirates unless they are way overpaid.
Cutch was 3rd best hitter last year. He isn’t clogging up anything. Be thankful he loves Pittsburgh and losing.
I’m on the fence about “Cutc” and see both sides. On this roster, he can likely play until he’s 50 and still be looked at as “productive”
I understand Mendoza’s point that at 37-38 he’s likely jamming up a younger player
But who?
Who is going to hit 20+ homers coming up from the farm?
There’s no young players to block. Development is awful. The only possible better hitters than Cutch in minors won’t be here until 2028! If they are developed. There’s currently openings at 3b ss 2b 1b corner outfield and with rest days backup outfield and utility. When all those positions are filled you can worry about dh. Bring Cutch back in 2026 2027 because he ain’t blocking it.
He is clogging it up for the young players like Suwinski and especially Davis on whom decisions have to be made soon.
For all we know the holdup with Grichuk is that he wants to play full time and try one last time to be in line for a big money multi year contract.
He is thankful that someone is paying him $5M to be just a DH because he cannot play the field anymore.He may very well not be able to get such a contract from any other team.
There’s no doubt from Grichuk or any team that he can’t play outfield. He’s a no doubt outfielder. Should never DH.
Davis can’t hit. He doesn’t deserve anything. If he ever hits he can play catcher. Send him back to the same place that taught him to catch and see if they can teach him rf or 1b.
Suwinski can’t hit. He deserves nothing. They f him up so bad who knows. He’s a no doubt outfielder as well. He should never DH.
Team hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade. Pirates suck. Farm system sucks. Cutch aint blocking anyone.
I meant Cutch on my last paragraph.
I disagree about both Suwinski and Davis.You forget who their hitting coach was.
Signing Cutch to me for this coming year is just another sign that the status quo is status quo.
And here I thought you had the man crush on Winker and Suwinski.
Winker can play rf in Pittsburgh and Suwinski can play outfield anywhere. Cutch wasn’t taking playing time from anyone.
Jack Davis are finished. If the new hitting coach miraculously makes them good awesome. But when you have Skenes Keller Jones Reynolds Cruz you can’t just sit back and hope. You need to add guys you know can hit.
But lets say Jack does hit them gets hurt. Who’s playing outfield? Sign someone better than Palacios Olivares Joe MAT. You need 4 outfielders. Someone will likely get hurt so you need 5.
There’s no 3b SS weak platoon 1b or rf and you are worried about cutch blocking people.
I am worried about losing two good young hitters who have proven that (1) can hit MLB pitching,and (2) can hit high level college and AAA pitchers extremely well.Their failure to get better may very well be due to both the lame development and poor MLB hitting coach that they both have had to endure.
Employ of both these young players with low salaries further enables Nutting to spend on Grichuk and Finnegan without any excuse.
Cherington understands these economics.
If Grichuk wants a full time job as previously posted Suwinski would be reduced to DH and backup OF duties,hence the need to have an open DH position as most teams have gone to.
Cutch is no Martinez or Cruz who can actually make a significant difference.
If fans want the Pirates to actually have a winning team then they must take chances like this rather than go with their status quo.
Most teams is irrelevant. I don’t give a it about most teams. How about teams that win? Yankees Mets Astros Phillies Braves Dodgers. Those teams win. What they have? Yes full time dh. I’d say there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a full time dh. It’s actually the loser small markets who only ever won 1 world series that often don’t have a full time dh. Dback had Peterson. Now rangers have him. Sox Cubs have one. Rays traded for Cruz few years ago. Cleveland had that hr guy who everyone forgot about including me. A’s even Rooker! What are you talking about teams moving on from dh? Come on now.
Thought of 2 more. Mitch Garver Josh Bell.
Soler! I think blackmon played dh last few years. Twins gold glove mvp contender cf had to move to dh because he couldn’t stay healthy. Still couldn’t.
Most great teams have a dh. They want a bat everywhere.
And I never seen a team fail to find a spot for a good hitter. If Jack Davis hits they will find playing time for them.
Davis can catch. Jack can play left or right.
My point is with both of those guys is that they need a consistent chance to find out whether they can (1) hit again or (2) hit ML pitching under a competent hitting coach.
Both may be ruined.
But nobody really knows until they are given a consistent chance.
And as young players they will have multiple years of control.
Even my man Andujar would have been much better last year than the clowns trotted out to RF.And that tells me all I need to know about who is making decisions on the Pirates,as even Shelton was fairly effusive about his hitting with runners on base.
Your point is you don’t care about winning. It’s year 6. Audition time is over. See what they do in spring training. AAA. As injury replacements. They couldn’t hit AAA last year. Until they do that there’s no need to see them vs mlb pitching.
Your point is absolutely wrong and arrogant in its description.
I have been a fan since Vernon Law was pitching.How about you?
You would chuck everything so you could tout the newest draftees which no one but you knows about.
Mike Schmidt hit like 190 his first year.
Davis hit extremely well in AAA last year.Suwinski was probably crestfallen after being demoted after two very decent ML years including his rookie and sophomore years.
Your fancy predictive statistics do not take into account anything human.
Seems like Nutting and his $ to me.Just plain numbers.
I’m keeping Jack Davis. Giving them every chance to make it. Two starting outfield spots are open for Jack. Both catching spots open for Davis. I’m not interested in them being dh when they can both play the field.
Cutch was your 3rd best hitter. Why the hate. He ain’t blocking anyone.
I would have been a fan before you if I was older. I was born a pirate. You just root for the baseball team with that name. I’m a actual pirate.
I think that on a team of this caliber, where there is simply no offensive spark beyond Reynolds and Cruz where run production is concerned, they might as well give these two kids a shot? Seriously. It’s not like they have big time bats ready to step in
You’re in luck! They aren’t signing a catcher (none left to sign) and not signing 2 outfielders. Highly doubt they sign Profar so not signing any outfielders.
Dream, they should work out the locker room towel boy while they’re at it. They’ve got no offense. I’m at a loss as to how anyone is excited about this group as is.
I get that Mendoza sees “Cutc” as a roadblock but given what we saw last year, how do you not sign him with this anemic team? Meanwhile, Jack and Davis will get their chances. And if they truly benefit from new coaching, then the Pirates will have a pleasant problem
For once
But I’m just not counting on it
But you and I know that Davis is third on the rung and trying to make up for the difference for any catcher especially a very young one is adversely going to affect his hitting.
I count one open OF spot and if they sign Grichuk as we all want done and he wants a full time job they will let him have it until he cannot hit righthanders.
Suwinski would have to go back down to AAA which may not be terrible but he would need to do so to get at bats.
McCutcheon may have been one of the best hitters on a bad hitting team but he clogs up the DH spot.
Yes there are still a number of one DH clubs but those guys are almost all very good hitters.Does Cutch have it in him for another year,and what happens if he does not?
It would be an ugly mess.
And your belittling of long time Pirate fans even if you do not mean to do so shows that you do not bleed for the team,pirate or not.
Not sure that any of us can count on the Pirates for anything.
And I do not hate Cutch.
But the teams with consistent DH’s do so because they are very good hitters.
I am looking down the road so that this time next year there should be no questions asked for either Davis or Suwinski.Either they were given an honest chance this year and made progress or they are traded to a team that is better at producing young hitters which they still would be.
Your buddy Grandal is available.And your suggestion to sign him to a minor league contract is a good one if he would take it,which he may not.
Reynolds isn’t a good outfielder so they can move him to 1b. Grichuk would be a really smart signing. How often do pirates do smart signings. If it’s a 1 year deal they won’t worry about him. They have Jack for 3 years so he’s more important.
You are worrying about a fantasy scenario. Pirates are going to sign Grichuk and he’s going to hit RHP. Davis Bart Endy are all going to hit. Cutch is going to get younger and magically heal. Shelton isn’t going to give rest days. No one is going to get hurt.
What about Yorke? Cook? Gorski? Mason Martin!!!! Cole Tucker!!!!!!
You weren’t worried about Jacks playing time last year when you cried over your boy Andujar.
They lost MAT Olivares Cruz Joe and replaced them with absolutely nothing. I’d say there is plenty of opportunity for Jack.
These guys are young and athletic. They need to play the field. DH is for old injured.
If the Pirates ever have so many bats Cutch is blocking players they can treat Cutch like a injured horse and put him down right on the field for all I care. But as of right now he’s their 3rd best hitter. But if Davis or Bart hit better than Cutch they will get plenty of games at DH. Even if they don’t Cutch is going to DH what 100 110 120 games max. If Davis or Bart destroy the baseball it will be under 100 for Cutch. No DH for Jack though. If his bat ever allows it he could be a gold glove finalist. They’ll move Reynolds to 1b or dh before Jack.
I guess it depends on what you mean by getting a chance. I’d have to think that spring training would afford those opportunities by I’m guessing you mean giving these kids chances into the season, as well
Isn’t that a perfect world take, though?
If Suwinski and Davis were to go into the season and simply don’t have it, haven’t they dug themselves an even bigger hole without Cutc’s homers
I get it. He was a .230 hitter last year. Most of his homers were solo shots. He can’t play the field. But even so, I have to wonder if he’ll still be more productive than the two kids
Yeah, Davis was only given mind games. Suwinski had a ridiculously bad hitting coach. And yet at some point, it’s incumbent upon both to do some growing up, tightening the belt and trying to improve
I don’t have any answers.
Well, you’ve finally embraced my “too many hopes, too many if’s “ thinking and you’re using it in the debate with Mendoza
Ok. That’s cool
Sometimes the stars align. But most times, things go poorly for the Pirates
I doubt Grichuk will sign here.
I think Cruz will fall off a bit where power numbers are concerned
I think the same about Cutch
I’ve seen enough of Jack and Davis but agree that they should be given a last shot. And given that, I don’t see either helping
IKF and Nick will be average hitters. Bart will be about the same.
But too many holes here, from Hayes to whomever plays RF to Triolo
If they stay as is, 70-72 wins
Jack was a broken record last year and the cause may very well have been Haines and the Pirates theory of lack thereof on hitting.
Hopefully it has changed.
How do we know that Termarr could not be better with a new hitting philosophy?
Suwinski survived the sophomore jinx and actually got better.
Does anybody here really think that this team will make the wild card this year,even with Grichuk?
Why not give the kids as good of a chance as possible?
Is your man Cutch the future of this organization?Bart should be the reserve first baseman especially if Endy is good to go.I do not know how Reynolds got so bad in the field so quickly.But they have backups for Horowitz in place if given the proper training in advance.
It does not seem to me that Cherington has an overall plan for this team and where to place each of the roster players to serve as backups/platoon players for all positions while giving the young players sufficient playing time to solidify their status.
I saw this with Andujar in 2023 and that is entirely on Cherington who created the vast void that became right field last year.
Agree completely with all of this.
Crystal clear explanation that makes a great deal of sense
Never understood getting rid of Andujar. Kid did everything asked of him and was sent packing.
And Termarr? Is he even still playing? Given the silence, you’d wonder
I like all the optimism. All Haines fault. New guy gonna fix everyone.
Terdmarr went from the best prep hitter scouts seen in a decade until he should be a above average regular. Did I hear somewhere he dropped out of top 100 somewhere?
Cutch is the future. Team will always need to fill holes with veterans. 0
Pirates can make wild card. Heck win division. Can also win 72 games. Wide range of outcomes. 75 to 85 would be my 10 game range with Grichuk.
Hitting coach might be a gem. I’m not buying Cherington Shelton changed their philosophy until I see it. Probably hired Haines 2.0 Probably wanted to keep Haines but someone had to be fired.
I don’t have any optimism, Dream
Like I said, 70-72 wins.
Yes, Termarr wasn’t in top 100
Bubba, new kid and Harrington. That’s all
No cavalry coming
You agree completely and Mendoza had optimism.
One of my favorite scouting reports I ever read. And not some fly by night website. Mlb.com
“Johnson is a potential No. 1 overall choice because he might be the best pure prep hitter in decades. He has a track record of pummeling pitchers on the showcase circuit and some evaluators give his bat top-of-the-scale 80 grades. One scout gave him a double Hall of Famer comparison by calling him a combination of Wade Boggs’ plate discipline and Vladimir Guerrero Sr.’s bat-to-ball skills.
Johnson’s hand-eye coordination and swing decisions make him an elite contact hitter from the left side of the plate. He isn’t fazed by mid-90s fastballs or quality breaking balls, using his quick, compact stroke to drive the ball to all fields. Though his listed 5-foot-10 height might be a bit generous, his ability to barrel balls along with his bat speed and strength could make him a 25-30 homer threat in the big leagues”
Pirates development says hold my beer
I agree that given the components of this team and how it is going nowhere, you might as well give the kids a shot
Mendoza has optimism that one of the kids will turn out to be good
I don’t
But no matter. 70-72 wins. And if that’s the case, play the younger guys
But here, bringing Cutch back is good PR. And the Pirates need some.
I do get the mindset that says no combination of the kids will yield the 20+ homers Cutch may hit.
He could hit 40, and it wouldn’t make this team a winner
I’m not that worried about TJ. He still has the hands and power that made him such a high pick. Just hasn’t had the results. I think he’s at a key point where he needs to decide if he is going to be hit or power. You can’t have confidence in Pirates developing him to his ceiling at this point but there is still a good player to be had. His bk rate is good enough. Just needs to get the bat going.
Dream GM- Mendoza has less optimism than you and only a very little more than Duq.
Once Shelton was brought back for 2025 which showed how divorced Nutting is from reality I in reality have basically given up on all of these knuckleheads including Nutting.
It amazes me that I still comment but do see a number of intelligent posters here like you two and may be able to see the trolls come back so Paul and Buuba can defend the Pirates’ honor.
I have even given up on doing that because of the aforementioned knuckleheads.
As in my posts about Nutting from several months ago,I just try to point out what either seems like facts or a balanced opinion.The future is in the young players.
I am not sure whether I have seen posts from nee Buuba lately.
Dream GM- Spot on.
I prefer margheritas though.
If you guys get bored you can get on YouTube and watch neil Huntington cry poor poor pitiful me making all the small market excuses you guys love. Adding how great him and his staff were.
I feel bad if you have less optimism than me. Best case scenario they win 70 games and Cherington gets fired. Worst case they win 85 and they keep him.
Didn’t seem to me that you were less optimistic though. You think all these failed players can magically become good with new hitting coach. I already moved on from them. If they become good great. I have zero confidence or expectations of them doing so. If it happens it happens.
You and Duq tend to put words in my mouth.I have hope that both Davis and Suwinski can begin to hit again,more than Duq and about the same as you at least for Jack.Your Jack is back quotes imply that.
My point is that they are too young to be “ruined for good” by Haines.
But it is quite possible that they do not work out in Pittsburgh.
I think that Cherington is trying to get an outfielder but that they would rather sign with some other team.
He has to then bet that both Davis and Suwinski can do so.
I am not necessarily saying that it will happen.
I am saying that it could,but only if they are given a decent chance.
Don’t feel bad.Us veteran fans are used to this sort of thing with the Pirates.
I’m not committing to 70-72 wins yet
Yet
Because it’s almost unbelievable that they’ve done nothing this off season. Defies logic
I mean, they have to get another bat or two, right?
Right?
I’ve said this before but the Pirates don’t consider guys who’ve been around since the Forbes Field days their target audience
Or peoples who remember ‘71. Or ‘79
Or even the Bonds/Leyland era
Dinosaurs
Now it’s selling the ballpark
Bobble heads. Pierogi races. Cheap t-shirts. Fireworks. Family night out
Skenes (maybe he can pitch every 2 games)
Look who is supporting this train wreck
Look who has optimism
And then there’s the analytics, bright eyes types who tell us what we see isn’t real
The money is out of control and it’s ridiculous. But insulting fans by telling them *this* is Major League Baseball and a franchise trying to compete is sickening.
And I was wondering where Paul and Buuba were. Oy
I tend to agree with most of your thinking, my friend and if I assume a bit too much, my apologies
My experience with young players embraces the idea that the mental game is often ignored by coaches. Within that is the idea of confidence or lack thereof and it’s the toughest nut to crack. That is, when a younger player has lost a great deal of confidence, it’s difficult to recoup. To me at least, it’s much more difficult than working on mechanical problems
I truly believe Davis and Jack should be given another shot, but it’s a special breed of coach to rebuild these types of problems and it takes an inordinate amount of time.
I’ll be surprised if either kid turns it around here. Too much baggage they’re dealing with
You try to get us fired up by saying things like that.We are on to you Dream GM.
I did not hear all of it but he was responsible for the only three year long successful Pirate period since the Bush administration.The first one.
Anyone who does not realize the gross difference in MLB equity is absolutely delusional.
Jack had a week and half 2 week stretch last year so trolling Paul I said Jack is back. Now when I say Jack is back because it’s making fun at this loser organization that instead of signing winker profar etc they are going with your plan of new hitting coach could fix Jack! I’m just making fun of that’s the plan for outfield. Jack is back! I think they can make Jack great again. Just no reason to bet on it. I’d sign Grichuk and if Jack out plays him or Reynolds or even Cruz that’s fine. You need 4 outfielders anyways. Guys don’t play every game anymore. Injuries happen. Shelton keeps everyone extremely well rested with off days.
What you see with your eyes isn’t real. Actually your eyes just stink. I watch more minors than mlb. When I told you Grandpal should start doing better it was all from data. He was absolutely crushing the ball yet his average was incredible low like .177 or something. There’s no way over a large enough sample size that his average would be even close to that low hitting the ball like he was. All data. But if watched the games I would see he was hitting the ball well but right at people. So your eyes are completely worthless. You should have been telling me how good he was doing instead of wanting him off the team. It comes down to paying a scout to watch Granpal for a week to tell you the same thing you could look up on your phone in 20 seconds.
It was just 4th of July and someone talked about him or something so I looked it up and noticed how good he was doing even though he had a .177 batting average. Could have noticed with just my eyes if I watched enough games. If you are hitting the ball hard and not setting a record in strike outs it’s impossible to hit .177 over a long enough sample.
Bright eyes is a joke though. If anyone here embraces analytics I will have you better than brighteyes in a week. He’s 20 years behind mlb front offices. Tells you what they did. Analytics is about predicting the future.
I listened to it as background noise. Will probably do it again as I think I missed most of it. I know many like to believe they are just pocketing massive $ but I would bet it’s closer to what these gms say.
And as a critical thinker if I own something that I could sell for over a billion dollars I think it’s more than reasonable to pocket 20 30 even 50 million. I have zero issue with that because I would do the exact same thing. And if Nutting was just pocketing hundreds of millions and not improving his team I would think NY LA the teams giving their $ to Nutting would have a major problem with him.
Everyone gets a piece a national $ and as the Pirates get 48 percent of Yankees Dodgers $ well LA NY gets 48 percent of the Pirates local $. NY LA etc is paying Pittsburgh so they can be better therefore having more eyes on mlb as a whole. I can’t imagine them just letting someone keep their $. Be like I loan my brother who lost his job $ so he can feed his kids but he goes out and buys a new tv to watch super bowl instead. These teams aren’t giving Nutting their $ to make Bobs net worth rise. They want Pittsburgh to watch baseball so fox espn apple give them more $.
That’s why you guys are optimistic. All I said was rebuild is over. Your positive thinking optimistic minds went to thinking I meant it was successful. Jack is back. Your mind went to back to his 2023 form. I just said if they don’t sign another outfielder he is back to the highest ceiling hope. If they gave Santander 80m jack obviously isn’t playing RF. If they don’t sign anyone Jack is back! Might stink but he’s back as in competing with Palacios. If they sign Grichuk Jack rides the bench unless he hits like 2023 again. You guys are optimists for sure.
It took a while for you to quantify what you meant by “the rebuild is over,” Dream. I never thought it had to denote “successful,” per se.
Rebuild simply meant they restocked the shelves, so to speak. Nothing more
What they’ve done is provided a Trader Joe’s type of rebuild when a contractor and his real materials would have provided a better finished product
Where I departed from you was the drafting and development areas, which you have come around to recently. It’s been like having the high school sophomore who likes drawing come over to design your house and order the supplies
No, I was never optimistic because early on, we saw what was coming up from the minors. And it hasn’t been much
About the eyes, that’s patently false
As a player, coach and manager, watching a player hit the ball hard indicates what you described—-that’s he’s coming out of it. You can tell when a batter is “on” a pitch, when he’s “seeing” a pitch. Never needed analytics to tell me what I already know
My comment about Grandpal last season was his lackadaisical throws back to the pitcher with runners on base. How many times did alert runners advance again? I’m sure bright eyes would give me data to tell me how wonderful he was doing
I get that analytics have a place in today’s game. Problem is, pointy heads who never played the game are being looked upon as geniuses in this era and all too often, their numbers don’t tell the whole story
I don’t think there is a official definition of rebuild. And media especially Pittsburgh media is awful. They pretty much spin it as if you aren’t winning you are rebuilding. Many including maybe you guys but many think the Pirates have been rebuilding since 2016. But really 2016 2017 was very much trying to contend but failure. 2018 was a reload. They only traded Cutch Cole as they should as contracts were expiring. Remember my rule extend or trade. But started winning before trade deadline so trade for Archer rebuild over. 2019 trying to contend.
My official definition of rebuild since no one else will give one has this criteria. Trading most or all of your expiring players Frazier Musgrove Tailon Bell Marte. All thay happened during same time frame. Not trying to win. Higher draft picks the better the prospects. 2022 was last year of rebuild. Bringing in Cutch Choi Santana Velasquez Hill isn’t trying to lose.
Restocking the shelves has nothing to do with rebuild. Once they traded all those guys restocking the shelves was over. You are out of players to trade so it’s impossible to restock the shelves. Just because shelves are bare doesn’t mean you are still rebuilding just means your trades and or development failed.
My views have been the same. Scouting fine enough development sucks. Davis TJ Priester were all going to be drafted and drafted right around were Pittsburgh took them. They just didn’t work out. Ben isn’t getting fleeced in trades. He just isn’t developing anyone. Now international scouting could be awful. Guy got fired and for Cherington to fire you then you must be awful. Griffin was best highschool player in 2023, best in 2024, and if he didn’t take extra classes so he can be eligible for this draft he would have been the best player in 2025. Kids a freak. 6 foot 4 215. Always played center field but switched to ss last year and was so good Pirates are trying him at ss. In like 40 games he stole like 86 out of 87 bases. The 1 time he got out was stealing home. LSU who can have anyone landed him. Oh and he pitches throws 96mph would have been a 1st round pick as a pitcher. If this kid doesn’t make it well it’s not the scouting. If you designed a baseball player in a lab using advanced AI this is what you would get. I would have taken him #1. His ceiling is the hall of fame.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=88b-gc3RlyI
Seems like a good kid who has the make up to make it as well. That’s my evening. Working. Talking to you guys. And listening to Neil Huntington Konnor Griffin on YouTube.
Nice explanations
We actually concur on the idea of “restocking the shelves”. I meant via draft and development in minors. No one to trade. No money to sign anyone
Pittsburgh media has begun to wise up
That “City of Champions” thing finally wore off and so did the glowing writing about local sports figures. Just in the past couple years, I have seen the great majority of local journalists ripping the shrouds off of coaches, GMs and owners of all franchises. And they should
On a different thread, you again attempted to soft soap Nutting and the idea of profits. It always has to be extremes where the defense mechanisms are concerned. Who’s talking about billions in profits? Or hundreds of millions?
Again, when Mark Cuban states that Nutting would be crazy to sell given the enormous profits he is making, what more needs to be said? Straight shooter. Former pro franchise owner. Pittsburgher.
I thought McClatchy was bad. And he was
But this guy? The biggest carpetbagger in sports
But there is no George Bailey who can come to the rescue of our Bedford Falls. We are stuck with crotchety old Mr Potter
Well maybe you were pounding the table telling everyone how well Grandpal was hitting. My memory it was just me. Only remember myself saying Rowdy was getting on track but that was more scouting than analytics. Grandpal was never coming out of anything though. He was the same player the entire season. 1st half unlucky. 2nd half too lucky. He was a .240 hitter the entire time. Just luck made him hit .177 and .299. He was never either.
1 time? I know a guy took home. Were people taking bases left and right on throws back to pitcher? That’s pretty impressive. I don’t know if anyone keeps stats on that. I imagine they seem to do on everyone. No need to because if it happened more than 1 time I would just bench the guy until he told me it would never happen again.
You guys are active! That’s good. Unfortunately Ben hasn’t given us much to talk about. Except Paul isn’t active. Northshore sent him away hiding in embarrassment!!!! Or he shoveled snow for the last time ever! Mendoza! How could you say that! Take that back! I’m sure Paul is just fine.
Anyways let me get ready for bed and I will read and reply unless the sleep hits me.
Yes. NorthShore seems to have been here only on the wings of the “Is Cutch on the roster or not” controversy, said his peace, looked for more debate but when everyone asked him why it mattered, took his ball and went home
Somewhere, he is studying rosters and finding conspiracies as we speak
You keep using colorful revision here
The point many of us made was that the Pirates again were bottom feeding, signing retreads. Tellez. Michael A. Grandpal
It’s a Pirates tradition. One we look forward to
And like the swallows returning to Capistrano each year, we look forward to trade deadline time. The air seems fresher. The water tastes cleaner.
But like John Silver, I have a very long memory
In this case, about retreads who’ve come and gone
Cuban said I believe 20 or 25 million. And I believe him. That’s the only difference we have. You and mark think that’s an impressive number and too much. I personally would take 50 million.
I have a team I could sell for over a billion. You want me to make how much a year? A million? 3 million? 5 million? That’s a awful ratio. I think 25 million is extremely reasonable for a yearly profit. You would really hate me because I’m taking 50. Even then it would take 20 years to get a billion. Taking Bob 40 years. The point of owning a business is to make a profit. And like I said if he was making a 100m a year that’s something to complain about and other owners would. 20m keep taking Bob. I have zero issue with it. I would do as Huntington said a handful of owners do and that’s take less profit or none at all when needed during serious contention window. Nutting has never done that and in fairness never really had to. Like I remember them needing a 1b during the wild card years but don’t remember a obvious choice being available. And they actually wanted to sign Morenau Happ but they weren’t interested allegedly. Not that I believe Nutting would take less profit to win. And if he doesn’t sign a outfielder and Jack isn’t back to 2023 form we can all say for certain he refused to take less $. Actually took more $ because he should be able to spend the same as he did last year at least and said he would allocate more funds this year even.
You’re not seeing it as Nutting likely does. He plays the long game as Buffet does. You’re describing something like what crypto morons do…wishing to cash in
By all accounts, Nutting is running a family business, one that will transcend into generations. No reason to cash in now and deal with the implications that go with it
You once called him a HoF finance guy. I agree.
I think Nutting saw what happened 10-12 years ago and simply learned the lesson that throwing more money on high priced personnel was exciting from a baseball perspective but a losing road in the ledger. You’re right. And no way he can justify losses on frivolous things that don’t guarantee glory. Wish I could live my personal life like that
I’m a realist. And I follow the league close enough. MAT was actually a positive player and worth his contract. Other teams spent double and nearly triple for the same production. Pirates got the best CF available. And good because Jack stunk! You would like better but have to settle for whats available. Rowdy was mostly good other than mid April to late May and then end of season was awful but Pirates were already toast then thanks to Bednar bullpen Shelton. Santana was the safer option. Paul likes to say they were too cheap but they went and spent 15 million on Chapman MAT.
Grandpal was positive player worth more than his salary. Hit .299 after July 4th!!!!!! Skenes loved him! Our 1 player loved him. How could you say that was a bad signing. I hope they bring him back. Would be awful move but I love Grandpal. He’s probably toast but who cares. I don’t.
I remember crystal clear Pirates fans in general maybe not you begging for Hoskins. So 2024 team wouldn’t have had Tellez ok because Hoskins same but also no Chapman Grandpal. Yikes. And this year they actually would have traded Bednar Keller because Hoskins used his player option. Yikes.
All good though. Me making fun of people who wanted Hoskins and even more lol Bellinger greatly improved the conversation.
If Cruz was still a SS fans would be saying we gotta sign a CF. The best free agent CF? MAT! Why Cruz is our CF and I think it’s going to work out really well. I actually watched those games. 1 I don’t like public available defensive analytics. 2 I’m not motivated to create my own. 3 his metrics shouldn’t be great as he was just thrown out there. So I am into predicting the future. I really liked what I seen. Not that I am a playing outfield expert. I never even played a single inning there. But I usually do pretty well evaluating them.
Well what’s your problem with Nutting? You believe Cuban. You didn’t push back on 20 25 million being too much. No small market ever spent more than 130m. So what’s the hate on Nutting? A new owner would operate the same way.
Only fault I have in Nutting is he doesn’t care enough about baseball to learn enough about it. It was obvious Haines should have been fired 2 years ago. Shelton a year ago. And Cherington 3 months ago. That’s my issue. Making a lil scratch doesn’t concern me. If other owners weren’t then it would.
Crypto is about smart people taking advantage of the stupid. You could have bought it at under 20 grand sold it for 50k. Bought again under 20k and sold at 100k. Not exactly unless you are the greatest investor in the world but near enough. Maybe you did. Hopefully you did. I love crypto. I can’t express how much I love it. But if you told me I had to keep it for 10 years at no point in time would I have ever bought it. I knew and understood what it was when it was a few hundred dollars. My friends were buying it up. One friend who I really trust got me to buy in. I never thought it would get to a thousand. Certainly not 10k. At 50k I couldn’t wait for the drop to sell. It truly is a mental barrier because I remember my dad selling my silver at $50. I bought back in and then again with both president candidates hyping it up. Sold and own absolutely zero. 100 another barrier. To my friends credit he didn’t and it’s over 100k now. So I’m waiting. Zero Bitcoin but I have other crypto I’m hoping to be the next Bitcoin. I personally can’t believe people buy it. Every time I owned it I was just waiting to exchange it for cash. Cash to commodities because I hate cash. Crypto to me is just some made up thing. Allegedly limited supply. I want something physical. But yeah I bought it and thankful I did. Might again.
Duq-You have more experience with me with young players so I will defer to you on that opinion.
I just hope for their benefit and the Pirates that they can improve and become good ML hitters.
Dream GM-When I first met you guys on here I thought that Paul saw the glass as broken,née Old Dude saw it as half empty,me as half full,and you as it filling to the top.
Now I see the water level between Old Dude and Paul.
Thank you for your note on optimism,but the Pirates wear one down Dream GM.
I am not optimistic.Too many years of overestimating their win total.
I’m not about to debate you on crypto
It’s like politics. I’m not gonna change your mind. Check Warren Buffet’s comments on it. Easy to find. Speaks volumes. But that’s me. I don’t like risk. And I trust no one
No. I was never a Hoskins guy. And all I might have said about Bellinger was that gee, it’d be nice to have him in this lineup but it was a pipe dream. And the Chapman signing for $10m was still ridiculous.
I continue to have serious doubts about Nutting profit margins that you bandy about. That’s the problem. You’d like to portray him as just a businessman making his money. But he’s kind of like the owner of Macy’s putting out fashions one would find at Kmart on their shelves and keeping Macy pricing. Bad product. Bad business practices that insult the consumer. High profit. Difference is, he has the only MLB “product” in town
But you keep misidentifying the target here. Yeah, bad GM. Bad manager. But it all rolls downhill.
There’s no debate about it. Buffet is a loser. Something that was worth less than 20k 2 years ago is now worth over 100k. He missed out. He also hates gold. Loser.
Whatever people say about Bitcoin I probably agree. Scam ponzi volatile. The market is so easy to read though. It’s free $. I don’t own any now but if the right news breaks I am buying and going for the ride. If wrong news breaks I will watch and fall. Then when right news breaks I will go for the ride. It literally moves on news greed fomo whatever you want to call it. Like I said if you told me I had to keep it for 10 years or even a year I would never buy it again. In 10 years it could be worth nothing. Until then it’s free $. Elon said he would accept it as payments for Tesla and it went up tens of thousands. Rumor Tesla was selling Bitcoin it went down tens of thousands. Mr Crypto President went up tens if thousands and then some. If president comes out and says government is going to massively purchase Bitcoin or buys Greenland or something with it well you know where it’s going. If he says its a security risk and usa will create it’s own Crypto currency you know where it’s going. It sounds to good to be true. Get rich scheme but I been in crypto for a decade.
There’s no debate about Bitcoin. It’s a fact it’s a great way to make $. That’s the only thing I care about it. Is it safe? Legit? Scam? Ponzi? Currency of future? I don’t care about any of that. Have I made $ on it? Will I be able to again? That’s all I care about. I’ve bought baseball cards, comic books, even digit art. A lot of digital art. If I can buy something and someone else is willing to pay more I will buy just anything.
You believe Cuban. He said it’s 20 25 a year or whatever. To me that sounds right. If he pocketed more than that I we would hear about owners complaining about it. They are paying him to grow their product of mlb baseball not his personal net worth. Maybe they are idiots though. I appreciate a good conspiracy theory but ultimately I go with what’s probably vs possible.
As far as Kmart Macy’s. No need to put out a good product if people will keep buying garbage product. Correct?
Let’s say Nutting spends 300m puts out the 110 win dodgers super team. 2.5m people show up. Few more people buy sportsnet 360. Pnc is small only holds so many people. Pittsburgh is small only has so many potential tv watchers and many are already watching because they A have better to do. B really love pirates baseball. Or C love the Penguins. Or D still paying their cable bill even though they don’t watch sports.
Vs spending 60 million and getting 1.5 in attendance.
1 million difference. Average person mlb spends $70 a game last I research. Pittsburgh prices near bottom so less than 70. But let’s say 70 million more. So he could have a 130 million payroll and still make as much $ right? Wrong. The other 29 teams get half of that $ so he only gets 35 million. Why you see Nutting only spent 90 100 million when he had 90 win teams 2.2 2.3 2.4 million attendance.
Cleveland Milwaukee are capable of bigger attendance so they can spend a bit more.
Like I said, I’m not going to debate crypto, especially with someone who says “Buffet is a loser”
Everything is relative, however
It’s hard to make a correlation between prices here and in other markets
My house may be worth a million here but in California would be $10m
I may be able to go to a top flight restaurant here with the wife and have a bill of $200. The same meal and restaurant in Manhattan may cost me $500
Your cost to watch a ballgame here is likely low when a beer will cost you $10 and in general, food is outrageous. Take a family of four and figure out the total cost. I’m guessing you can’t do it for under $300
In Pittsburgh, that’s a lot of money for average fans
You say I “ trust” Cuban. No. I said his words about profits speak volumes. I would bet that Nutting’s mission statement jibes with your thoughts about Macy and Kmart.
Look, no one is expecting ownership to take a loss. No one is expecting top flight free agents to come here
PNC is a small ballpark but conversely, I would bet tri state viewing actually tops a few similar markets
Duq- He may have meant Jimmy Buffet,God rest his soul,because of his theme song Margeritaville,which is one of my top five all time songs.
Warren Buffet has to be in the top twenty richest men in the world,and he Ives in the same house that he lived in fifty years ago.
Maybe Dream GM just got his Buffets mixed up.
He is not prone to say fantastic things like “Buffet is a loser”.
Or is he?
He’s not winning. He missed out on the easiest $ there is. Jimmy missed out too.
He at least should have bought a dip and came out and pumped it and made billions because it would have went up ten thousand at least. That’s how volatile it is.
Missed out on all the stocks related to it. He missed out on tech stocks before that.
Like most really old people your best days are behind you. He’s plenty rich so doesn’t matter. But he lost big time.
Could have finished out a legend to the young generations. Still a rock star and like most rock stars all his hits were decades ago.
15 years ago you could get it for free on your computer or buy tens of Bitcoin for $50 $100. Now 1 is worth over 100 grand. Incredible return. Debate away if you say otherwise. All I am saying it was a way to make $. And lots of people lost out on it including myself who didn’t get into it as soon as I could have.
Pittsburgh 20 something media market. Most of wv and small part of east Ohio watch but that’s nothing. Like other teams have entire states or regions. South is all Atlanta north east all Boston. Only so much you can do with Philly and Cleveland somewhat near you.
How about Nutting as an investor? Newspapers a great investment or just keeping his family legacy? I never researched them but seems like a pretty terrible place to have $.
I’d say you’re embarrassing yourself with this continued rant, but ok
Buffet explains crypto quite well in a one-minute segment on YouTube. Tell you what, you can have it
Never liked Jimmy Buffet and never understood the appeal.
But calling either one of these guys “losers” is a bit, well, ridiculous
I enjoyed the newspaper era. I am sorry it’s largely gone
At one time, I’m sure it was a pretty solid investment but of course, not anymore.
I’m sure Nutting does fine via digital news
Unless I’m wrong, he owned a string of ski resorts but I believe he sold them
I doubt any Nutting will have to work for a few generations to come
I don’t get embarrassed. It was nothing to get embarrassed about if I did. Don’t actually believe Buffet is a loser. Although he did lose out on a ton of $. Obviously it doesn’t matter to him much. Just doing experiments for research and to entertain myself. Not that you guys aren’t entertaining.
Sold ski resorts. I thought with global warming it was about time. This winter though… Sking is back!
Digital news. I dunno. I read everything I want. Pay nothing. See no adds. I think a lot of people are like that and even more just don’t care or get news elsewhere. I think he has small rural papers so they might hang on a bit longer. My guess it’s keeping the family business and he thinks he is influencing people.
I like papers. Even more magazines. I like physical media blu rays cds records game disc. All dying though.
Agreed, Mendoza. I have to think the Pirates have been relegated to the Rowdy Tellez-type signings thanks to the lack of a commitment to winning here—at least where agents are concerned. Players who still care about winning will take comparable contracts from other teams before signing here
To me, this is the point that speaks loudest—that players and their agents know the Nutting greed. They’ll sign in KC. In Cleveland. In Milwaukee. Even with the Sacramento A’s.
Or is it the Pirates aren’t even trying?
And I think Mookie and Freddie are two good men. But how can I justify rooting for them at all?
The A’s massively overpayed. That’s why they can get free agents.
And the owner doesn’t give a it about winning. They either get payroll up to 100m this year or mlb takes away their revenue sharing. Nutting would be spending too. But don’t worry about Bob. He makes sure the Pirates spend the absolute minimum amount so his revenue share $ is never in Jeopardy.
With a relatively large pool of free agents still out there, what’s the thinking?
Will they accept drastically lower or will they just ride it out into the season?
Only deep pool left is the one area Pirates need corner outfield. Profar might get real $. Grichuk should be under 10m and worth it and should be signed by Pirates. Only cost like 2m or something ridiculous last year. Teams won’t likely make that mistake again. He should cost more and maybe multiple years. Canha will be in Pirates range. Pillar will be happy to get a mlb deal.
I think Jack could be bounce back. Just why go all in on betting on it? Pirates love Palacios too.
Pirates should sign Joe to minor league deal. Why not.
Duq- Ths is Groundhog Day part 20.
Just like Taylor last year you will get signings a week or two before spring training because smart players want that time with their new team.
The dumb ones have agents who fill their heads with money that is not there and miss much or all of spring training.
They are buying several relatively inexpensive gold mining tools and hoping they strike gold with one of them in their right field (and bullpen) streams. Good luck.
Yeah. They do this every year. Just when will they strike gold, anyway?
They take this bargain basement approach and then tell Shelton to play them. And shortly after that, they’re on the shuttle to Indy
All they needed was a couple of bats this off season to augment their corp of pitchers and guys like Reynolds and Cruz.
Since the free agent pool still has a number of good players, maybe there’s still hope
But after reading Dream’s logical take (above) I kinda doubt they get anyone who’ll move the needle
I believe this is incorrect. Andrew McCutchen was added to the roster a day or so after he was signed in December when there were vacancies.
When Brett de Geus was acquired, the roster was full. Tristan Gray was DFA’d to make room for de Geus.