Ya’ll getting destroyed trying to bait Steve into saying something negative about deferrals. Quit crying about it and email your complaints to your team’s POBO.
Destroyed? Lol…knock it off, unfortunately this has raised some concerns even with sports writers. CHANGE NEEDED: NEWSWEEK’s Jon Paul Hoornstra noted The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal suggested on the latest episode of “Foul Territory” that there is a “loophole to be closed in the next round of CBA negotiations around how deferred-money deals are calculated toward the competitive balance tax.” Rosenthal said, “Shohei Ohtani’s contract, for example — $70 million for 10 years — that $70 million should count against the luxury tax, not the present-day value. That would prevent the Dodgers from playing games with this. It’s not that they’re doing anything illegal. It’s perfectly legal. But it would prevent them from skirting the luxury tax calculation in that fashion” (NEWSWEEK, 11/30). In N.Y., Mike Lupica wrote at some point, baseball is “going to have to come up with some new rules” and “stop the Dodgers from gaming the system this way” (N.Y. DAILY NEWS, 11/30).
If Rosenthal said that he’s clueless. How can it be a $700 million when $680 million of it is paid in years 11-20? It doesn’t make any economic sense. There is only ONE MLB player who you could structure a deal like Ohtani structured given his massive endorsement deals. Players have to agree to the deferrals. Something that gets lost in the deferral narrative. Tell me how much money Soto was willing to defer in his massive contract? Players at the end of the day determine what net present value they’ll get paid at and that’s what determines AAV.
He’s clueless? Hahaha, no matter how anyone feels about deferred contracts, it’s being talked about right now for the next round of negotiations. I personally couldn’t care less about any of this. I think anyone who’s getting mad about MLB and player’s salaries is laughable. Just keep being a fan of your team or don’t. Stop watching for all I care.
I find MLB to be entertaining as it is. Heck, my Orioles have had three consecutive winning seasons. Didnt see that coming in 2021. Its proof that spending gobs of money to win is not the only way to win. I’ll take it.
That said; it would be interesting to see how competition would fare if a hard payroll floor and ceiling cap was employed. IE. all teams would be roster building within a same pay parameter.
Not just 3 winning seasons, but an average of 92 wins in those seasons. Now, with a historic 2025 draft haul and 3 huge prospects that have contributed nothing to date, they are still a budding dynasty.
Rosenthal said, “Shohei Ohtani’s contract, for example — $70 million for 10 years — that $70 million should count against the luxury tax, not the present-day value.
===========================
Nonsense. $70M paid 10 years from now is not even close to the value of $70M paid today. If you buy a 5-year T-bill, do you expect to pay taxes today on the income you will receive 5 years from now?
What our thoughts are on the issue is irrelevant. If you would like me to post the article so you can read more about what was said, let me know. All I’m doing is pointing out that there’s discussions already being had about this deferred payment dispute.
It’s not irrelevant because anyone with half a brain knows that this is nonsense including the owners. It’s interesting how owners and players don’t complain about deferrals. Only clueless fans and journalists with a narrative.
So anyone with a different view than you is clueless, annd has a half a brain including Rosenthal, who I guarantee has more info on this matter than any of us. Bahaha. Ok! You do you bud. Sounds like you’re mad or something. Like I said, I could care less, I was reading an article and felt it was a relevant response to the person who made the first comment.
I’m not the one btching and moaning how MLB determines AAV, which again, anyone with half a brain and basic knowledge of finance knows this. It’s irrelevant if you think Ohtani’s contract is $700mm over 10 years. It only matters how those cash flows are paid out. You and Rosenthal can take a basic finance course to learn what time value of money is.
Owners are fine with deferrals. Same for the players. Both want as much flexibility to pay/receive payments as they see fit. The deferral narrative is in the media (including Rosenthal) and disgruntled fans, who ironically have no freaking clue on what they’re talking about.
If the owners are fine with deferring money and players are fine with deferring money then Rosenthal is going to have egg on his face isn’t he? Never once in any of my comments did I say I cared about either. Stop being a butt hurt Dodger fan over a statement being made by a sports writer! Whatever they decide isn’t going to be because you say so. Ironically you have no freaking clue where these next negotiations are going to go until they get there huh? Move along.
Butt hurt? Simply pointing out the fallacy of this narrative whether it’s you, Rosenthal or anyone else. Why do you think Rosenthal writes the crap that he does? Ever think about that? What’s going to get more clicks and attention? An article that says the Dodgers aren’t doing anything wrong, and nothing to see here or what fans of 29 other teams want to hear? That baseball needs change. Baseball is broken. Etc. Even though deferring $ has gone on for decades. Nobody seemed to care when the Nationals did it. There is no loophole. Spending and deferring are two completely separate issues.
You getting at me sideways about someone else’s article and what they say will be coming in the next negotiation isn’t my fallacy. Baseball has been constantly changing, some good, some I don’t care for, like messing with the baseballs every other year. Winding em up tighter, loosening them, dead ball era, steroids, it’s always moving. All I can say is, whatever happens is going to happen, not because of you or me and our complaints. If they see deferred money needs to be tightened up, then they’ll do it, if they don’t then they won’t. One thing I will say, is Ohtani’s contract and the amount deferred shouldn’t have been allowed. I mean come on. 680 million deferred? I wouldn’t mind seeing a cap on the amount deferred like 30%. That’s the norm. I believe. You can disagree all you want about that. Be mad or whatever. Best of luck.
One freak of an athlete who will most likely not be replicated in our lifetime who is a god in his home country and as such earns a ridiculous sums of money in endorsements who doesn’t mind taking much less money early for the sake of getting better players for his team. That contract is a unicorn. And very few players would or could have done the same. You think these contracts are and or will be common? How much deferred money was Soto willing to take? Rhymes with hero. What exactly are we talking about here?
Bro, you need to stop, Ohtani is a great hitter and has speed, time will tell if he’ll be a pitcher again at a star level. On top you just proved my point. Soto, already topped Ohtani’s contract, no deferred money, as was his choice, and you chalk it up to being selfish because Ohtani was willing to defer. A cap needs to be put on deferred payments. The argument goes away. No more stacking the deck on teams. Agree or not, Ohtani’s contract wasn’t a unicorn, it was already passed.
Laughable. Yeah, he’s going to all of a sudden forget how to pitch. He has injury risk but with that contract, even if he were never to pitch again his contract is a bargain especially with the amount of money he’s bringing to the Dodgers. Guarantee you that if the Mets could have Ohtani at what the Dodgers got him for they’d easily trade that contract for Soto’s contract and then some. Dodgers of course would not. Soto is not selfish. He’s simply taking what the market gives him. His endorsement dollars are not close to Ohtani’s. And while Soto is not selfish, I do think Ohtani is a lot more selfless than Soto. It’s not Soto’s fault that Cohen is stupid rich. And he was fortunate to carve out the perfect time to be a free agent. When both NY teams were desperate for him.
Unicorn in that 97% of the contract value was deferred, wise guy. Not only deferred, but deferred to years 11-20 of the contract. I guess Dodgers not only ones deferring salary. Santander’s contract with massive deferrals brings his AAV from $18.5mm to $13.7mm. Is that circumventing the rules? Of course not. The player agrees how he gets paid.
Bro you seem to want to get testy, and combative over something you have no clue on how is going to play out. You seem to be a part of the problem with this deferred issue with your anger on display.
I’m going to tell you one more time. I don’t care about your feelings on deferred money. You get it, or do you need me to say it again wise guy? You’ll see what happens with deferred money in the next round of negotiations. Period. Whether you like it or not.
As for Ohtani’s Tj, you don’t have a clue how he will be able to perform. And once again I can care less about what he brings in for the dodgers. You’re arguing with the wind kid. Move along. Your comments aren’t insightful
Only one who’s being combative and testy is you, BRO. And guess what we don’t care about your feelings on deferred money either. Same thing is true in everything you post. The opposite is not wrong. So, stop pretending that you provide anything new or insightful. We’re all random people posting stuff on the internet.
What I’m posting is a lot more insightful and less moronic than what crap you’re spilling. You pout like a little child. Just move along if you don’t like what I post, or better yet mute me. Save me time from having to respond to your same old tired rants. Bro! SMH Not sure who you refer to when you say “we don’t care”! Bahaha
Steve, ONE Posey will not sign Alonso. He has CLEARLY stated they’re changing the K or Homer mentality. The Padres and Dbacks had great success last year with situational hitting, 2 strike adjustments, etc. The Alonso way is fading out (and Pete is fading as well) and TWO, Posey refused to sign Burnes to an opt out style contract. He wants players that want to play there awhile. I understand the posters begging for Alonso but I don’t understand why you agree with them.
claude, Yeah, I agree. From what I understand, the supposed interest in Alonso was just from some non-committal comment from Posey. Were they to sign Alonso to a short-term deal with opt-outs, and if his numbers are suppressed at Oracle, as I suspect they will be, does he opt-in since his value would drop? It has the potential for a disastrous, under-water deal for several years.
Wade/Flores should provide 75-80% of Alonso’s normal production for 33% of the cost, with no guarantee the Giants would get that normal production from him. Why risk getting potentially stuck with a big contract for an underperforming Alonso?
I wonder how much the deferral narrative would be different is LA had had the exact same off-season….. but was coming off a Game 5 loss to San Diego instead of a World Series win.
Maybe the media/MLBTR should only report on the money committed by said team in these deferred deals and not include the interest that’ll accrue over time? It’s very confusing for the general public, aka the fans. Btw, the Dodgers now have as much deferred money owed to players compared to the total evaluation of the Cleveland organization (~1.4B$). Let that one sink in!
Agreed! So much pathetic crying about deferrals. It’s hilarious to see all the petty jealous comments so easily shut down with facts and receipts by Steve. None of these people ever gave a single sold crap about this before the Ohtani contract. Even when it was being leveraged by other WS champions. And even now when they know that Ohtani offered the same structure to other teams. It’s like they only hear what they want to hear. These losers need to go be mad at their own owners who are playing this purely as a business instead of playing to put together a winning team if they can (see my Mariners along with the other usual suspects).
Baseball fans on this chat are so pathetic. Whining about the Dodgers doing what every team could do but are too greedy to do is so sad and a bad reflection on a certain portion of mlb fans. The fact these people continue to think the Dodgers are going something novel or wrong reflects poorly on their literacy and understanding of simple economics.
Ya’ll getting destroyed trying to bait Steve into saying something negative about deferrals. Quit crying about it and email your complaints to your team’s POBO.
Destroyed? Lol…knock it off, unfortunately this has raised some concerns even with sports writers. CHANGE NEEDED: NEWSWEEK’s Jon Paul Hoornstra noted The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal suggested on the latest episode of “Foul Territory” that there is a “loophole to be closed in the next round of CBA negotiations around how deferred-money deals are calculated toward the competitive balance tax.” Rosenthal said, “Shohei Ohtani’s contract, for example — $70 million for 10 years — that $70 million should count against the luxury tax, not the present-day value. That would prevent the Dodgers from playing games with this. It’s not that they’re doing anything illegal. It’s perfectly legal. But it would prevent them from skirting the luxury tax calculation in that fashion” (NEWSWEEK, 11/30). In N.Y., Mike Lupica wrote at some point, baseball is “going to have to come up with some new rules” and “stop the Dodgers from gaming the system this way” (N.Y. DAILY NEWS, 11/30).
Reading too much into so-called ‘sports journalism’, especially from Mike Lupica and Newsweek, should be considered a Balk.
If Rosenthal said that he’s clueless. How can it be a $700 million when $680 million of it is paid in years 11-20? It doesn’t make any economic sense. There is only ONE MLB player who you could structure a deal like Ohtani structured given his massive endorsement deals. Players have to agree to the deferrals. Something that gets lost in the deferral narrative. Tell me how much money Soto was willing to defer in his massive contract? Players at the end of the day determine what net present value they’ll get paid at and that’s what determines AAV.
He’s clueless? Hahaha, no matter how anyone feels about deferred contracts, it’s being talked about right now for the next round of negotiations. I personally couldn’t care less about any of this. I think anyone who’s getting mad about MLB and player’s salaries is laughable. Just keep being a fan of your team or don’t. Stop watching for all I care.
You’re still doing it. Read my comment again, rinse and repeat.
I find MLB to be entertaining as it is. Heck, my Orioles have had three consecutive winning seasons. Didnt see that coming in 2021. Its proof that spending gobs of money to win is not the only way to win. I’ll take it.
That said; it would be interesting to see how competition would fare if a hard payroll floor and ceiling cap was employed. IE. all teams would be roster building within a same pay parameter.
Just reporting what was said, take it up with Rosenthal and whoever else stated what was coming the negotiations.
“hard” as in no loop holes to get around the cap; like a deferred payment plan(s) escape clause.
Not just 3 winning seasons, but an average of 92 wins in those seasons. Now, with a historic 2025 draft haul and 3 huge prospects that have contributed nothing to date, they are still a budding dynasty.
Rosenthal said, “Shohei Ohtani’s contract, for example — $70 million for 10 years — that $70 million should count against the luxury tax, not the present-day value.
===========================
Nonsense. $70M paid 10 years from now is not even close to the value of $70M paid today. If you buy a 5-year T-bill, do you expect to pay taxes today on the income you will receive 5 years from now?
What our thoughts are on the issue is irrelevant. If you would like me to post the article so you can read more about what was said, let me know. All I’m doing is pointing out that there’s discussions already being had about this deferred payment dispute.
It’s not irrelevant because anyone with half a brain knows that this is nonsense including the owners. It’s interesting how owners and players don’t complain about deferrals. Only clueless fans and journalists with a narrative.
Oh, it’s your money? It’s your contract? You play for MLB? Yes your opinion is irrelevant. Sorry bud.
So anyone with a different view than you is clueless, annd has a half a brain including Rosenthal, who I guarantee has more info on this matter than any of us. Bahaha. Ok! You do you bud. Sounds like you’re mad or something. Like I said, I could care less, I was reading an article and felt it was a relevant response to the person who made the first comment.
I’m not the one btching and moaning how MLB determines AAV, which again, anyone with half a brain and basic knowledge of finance knows this. It’s irrelevant if you think Ohtani’s contract is $700mm over 10 years. It only matters how those cash flows are paid out. You and Rosenthal can take a basic finance course to learn what time value of money is.
Owners are fine with deferrals. Same for the players. Both want as much flexibility to pay/receive payments as they see fit. The deferral narrative is in the media (including Rosenthal) and disgruntled fans, who ironically have no freaking clue on what they’re talking about.
Bahaha! What a moron! You think Rosenthal is my mouth piece? Like I said, I’m just repeating what was being talked about you goof ball.
If the owners are fine with deferring money and players are fine with deferring money then Rosenthal is going to have egg on his face isn’t he? Never once in any of my comments did I say I cared about either. Stop being a butt hurt Dodger fan over a statement being made by a sports writer! Whatever they decide isn’t going to be because you say so. Ironically you have no freaking clue where these next negotiations are going to go until they get there huh? Move along.
Butt hurt? Simply pointing out the fallacy of this narrative whether it’s you, Rosenthal or anyone else. Why do you think Rosenthal writes the crap that he does? Ever think about that? What’s going to get more clicks and attention? An article that says the Dodgers aren’t doing anything wrong, and nothing to see here or what fans of 29 other teams want to hear? That baseball needs change. Baseball is broken. Etc. Even though deferring $ has gone on for decades. Nobody seemed to care when the Nationals did it. There is no loophole. Spending and deferring are two completely separate issues.
You getting at me sideways about someone else’s article and what they say will be coming in the next negotiation isn’t my fallacy. Baseball has been constantly changing, some good, some I don’t care for, like messing with the baseballs every other year. Winding em up tighter, loosening them, dead ball era, steroids, it’s always moving. All I can say is, whatever happens is going to happen, not because of you or me and our complaints. If they see deferred money needs to be tightened up, then they’ll do it, if they don’t then they won’t. One thing I will say, is Ohtani’s contract and the amount deferred shouldn’t have been allowed. I mean come on. 680 million deferred? I wouldn’t mind seeing a cap on the amount deferred like 30%. That’s the norm. I believe. You can disagree all you want about that. Be mad or whatever. Best of luck.
One freak of an athlete who will most likely not be replicated in our lifetime who is a god in his home country and as such earns a ridiculous sums of money in endorsements who doesn’t mind taking much less money early for the sake of getting better players for his team. That contract is a unicorn. And very few players would or could have done the same. You think these contracts are and or will be common? How much deferred money was Soto willing to take? Rhymes with hero. What exactly are we talking about here?
Bro, you need to stop, Ohtani is a great hitter and has speed, time will tell if he’ll be a pitcher again at a star level. On top you just proved my point. Soto, already topped Ohtani’s contract, no deferred money, as was his choice, and you chalk it up to being selfish because Ohtani was willing to defer. A cap needs to be put on deferred payments. The argument goes away. No more stacking the deck on teams. Agree or not, Ohtani’s contract wasn’t a unicorn, it was already passed.
Laughable. Yeah, he’s going to all of a sudden forget how to pitch. He has injury risk but with that contract, even if he were never to pitch again his contract is a bargain especially with the amount of money he’s bringing to the Dodgers. Guarantee you that if the Mets could have Ohtani at what the Dodgers got him for they’d easily trade that contract for Soto’s contract and then some. Dodgers of course would not. Soto is not selfish. He’s simply taking what the market gives him. His endorsement dollars are not close to Ohtani’s. And while Soto is not selfish, I do think Ohtani is a lot more selfless than Soto. It’s not Soto’s fault that Cohen is stupid rich. And he was fortunate to carve out the perfect time to be a free agent. When both NY teams were desperate for him.
Unicorn in that 97% of the contract value was deferred, wise guy. Not only deferred, but deferred to years 11-20 of the contract. I guess Dodgers not only ones deferring salary. Santander’s contract with massive deferrals brings his AAV from $18.5mm to $13.7mm. Is that circumventing the rules? Of course not. The player agrees how he gets paid.
Bro you seem to want to get testy, and combative over something you have no clue on how is going to play out. You seem to be a part of the problem with this deferred issue with your anger on display.
I’m going to tell you one more time. I don’t care about your feelings on deferred money. You get it, or do you need me to say it again wise guy? You’ll see what happens with deferred money in the next round of negotiations. Period. Whether you like it or not.
As for Ohtani’s Tj, you don’t have a clue how he will be able to perform. And once again I can care less about what he brings in for the dodgers. You’re arguing with the wind kid. Move along. Your comments aren’t insightful
Only one who’s being combative and testy is you, BRO. And guess what we don’t care about your feelings on deferred money either. Same thing is true in everything you post. The opposite is not wrong. So, stop pretending that you provide anything new or insightful. We’re all random people posting stuff on the internet.
What I’m posting is a lot more insightful and less moronic than what crap you’re spilling. You pout like a little child. Just move along if you don’t like what I post, or better yet mute me. Save me time from having to respond to your same old tired rants. Bro! SMH Not sure who you refer to when you say “we don’t care”! Bahaha
Thanks for answering so many questions!
Steve, ONE Posey will not sign Alonso. He has CLEARLY stated they’re changing the K or Homer mentality. The Padres and Dbacks had great success last year with situational hitting, 2 strike adjustments, etc. The Alonso way is fading out (and Pete is fading as well) and TWO, Posey refused to sign Burnes to an opt out style contract. He wants players that want to play there awhile. I understand the posters begging for Alonso but I don’t understand why you agree with them.
claude, Yeah, I agree. From what I understand, the supposed interest in Alonso was just from some non-committal comment from Posey. Were they to sign Alonso to a short-term deal with opt-outs, and if his numbers are suppressed at Oracle, as I suspect they will be, does he opt-in since his value would drop? It has the potential for a disastrous, under-water deal for several years.
Wade/Flores should provide 75-80% of Alonso’s normal production for 33% of the cost, with no guarantee the Giants would get that normal production from him. Why risk getting potentially stuck with a big contract for an underperforming Alonso?
I wonder how much the deferral narrative would be different is LA had had the exact same off-season….. but was coming off a Game 5 loss to San Diego instead of a World Series win.
Maybe the media/MLBTR should only report on the money committed by said team in these deferred deals and not include the interest that’ll accrue over time? It’s very confusing for the general public, aka the fans. Btw, the Dodgers now have as much deferred money owed to players compared to the total evaluation of the Cleveland organization (~1.4B$). Let that one sink in!
It’s only confusing to those who don’t grasp basic economics…so, yeah, a significant portion of fans.
Thank you and nice job Steve! You handled the Dodgers’ deferrals stuff like a pro.
Agreed! So much pathetic crying about deferrals. It’s hilarious to see all the petty jealous comments so easily shut down with facts and receipts by Steve. None of these people ever gave a single sold crap about this before the Ohtani contract. Even when it was being leveraged by other WS champions. And even now when they know that Ohtani offered the same structure to other teams. It’s like they only hear what they want to hear. These losers need to go be mad at their own owners who are playing this purely as a business instead of playing to put together a winning team if they can (see my Mariners along with the other usual suspects).
What a bunch crybaby’s
Baseball fans on this chat are so pathetic. Whining about the Dodgers doing what every team could do but are too greedy to do is so sad and a bad reflection on a certain portion of mlb fans. The fact these people continue to think the Dodgers are going something novel or wrong reflects poorly on their literacy and understanding of simple economics.