Talks between the Mets and Pete Alonso’s agents at the Boras Corporation seemingly hit an impasse last week, as reports emerged that the Mets expected Alonso to sign elsewhere after the two sides each rejected the other’s three-year contract offer. Team owner Steve Cohen and president of baseball operations David Stearns each addressed the situation at the “Amazin’ Day” fan event this weekend at Citi Field, with Cohen reinforcing the idea that the door isn’t closed on an Alonso reunion, but the chances of an agreement appear diminished.
“We made a significant offer to Pete,” Cohen told fans and media, including The Athletic’s Will Sammon. However, the owner doesn’t “like the structures that are being presented back to us. I think it’s highly asymmetric against us, and I feel strongly about it. I will never say no, you know, there’s always the possibility [of an agreement]. But the reality is we’re moving forward, and as we continue to bring in players, the reality is it becomes harder to fit Pete into what is a very expensive group of players that we already have.”
“And that’s where we are, and I am being brutally honest. I don’t like the negotiations. I don’t like what’s been presented to us. Listen, maybe that changes, and certainly, I’ll always stay flexible. If it stays this way, I think we are going to have to get used to the fact that we may have to go forward with the existing players that we have.”
The exact specifics of Scott Boras’ offers to the Mets aren’t known, though the concept floated was a three-year contract with at least one opt-out clause, which would allow Alonso to test free agency again likely as early as next offseason. The structure is similar to the deals signed by other Boras clients like Matt Chapman, Cody Bellinger, Blake Snell, and Jordan Montgomery last winter, which saw the players each receive a high average annual value within the framework of those shorter-term contracts.
Reports indicated that the Mets’ countered the Alonso camp’s offer with a three-year deal (presumably still with opt-outs) worth $68-$70MM, which would’ve given Alonso a rough AAV of $23MM. Alonso and his reps rejected that offer and Sammon writes that the Mets then pulled the offer away entirely, leading to the current stalemate between the two sides. According to Sammon, “it’s unknown if the Mets and Alonso have since re-engaged. So whether the door is open under similar or different parameters remains a question.”
While some gamesmanship could certainly have been at play in Cohen’s comments today, the Mets owner didn’t mince words in saying “personally, this has been an exhausting conversation and negotiation,” Cohen felt that the talks with Alonso were “worse” than even the “tough” negotiations with Juan Soto that ended in Soto’s record $765MM contract. Ironically, both Soto and Alonso are represented by Boras, though obviously the markets for both sluggers varied greatly.
Even before the offseason began, there was some sense that Alonso (as a power-centric first baseman with slightly declining numbers over the last two seasons) might have to settle for a shorter-term deal with opt outs, so the fact that the talks with the Mets have focused on such contracts isn’t much of a surprise. What isn’t clear, however, is whether Alonso has other suitors willing to offer more years, or at least higher average annual salaries. The Giants, Angels, Red Sox, and Blue Jays have all reportedly shown some interest in Alonso, with Toronto seemingly making the most recent push for the first baseman.
In terms of how the Mets might be looking beyond Alonso, Jesse Winker was re-signed last week, filling another hole on the position-player side. The New York Post’s Joel Sherman wrote yesterday that the Mets asked both Mark Vientos and Brett Baty to start working out at first base, with Baty also getting some reps as a second baseman.
Vientos has some experience at first base already, and he was already locked into a regular spot in New York’s 2025 lineup whether as a third baseman (if Alonso re-signed) or at first (if Alonso left and another first base-only type wasn’t obtained). Baty has played almost exclusively at third base during his 169-game MLB career and in the minors, while spending some time at second base and in left field in the minors. He has never played first base at the professional level, with Baty telling Sammon that he last played the position when he was a high school sophomore.
Nevertheless, Baty views the challenge as “really fun….I’ve always prided myself on being as athletic as I can be. And I think athleticism, you can show it off at any position whether it be first base, second base, third base, the outfield, whatever it is.”
With a .215/.282/.325 slash line over 602 plate appearances at the MLB level, Baty has yet to establish himself over parts of three seasons in the Show, so adding positional flexibility is at least a good way for the former top prospect to help his chances of making the roster. Between Baty, Luisangel Acuna, and Ronny Mauricio, the Mets could let those youngsters compete for playing time at third base, ideally with one stepping up to take on the regular starting job. If none are ready for prime time, the Mets could pursue a corner infielder of some type at the trade deadline, with Vientos perhaps shifting from first to third base depending on who New York might obtain.
showmebb
Pete wants to be a Met, the Mets know that and want him to sign for less than the competition , but Pete doesn’t want to give said discount.
danumd87
That’s entirely conjecture. What we actually know from reporting is that Alonso’s asks to date have been exorbitant and the market has rejected them entirely. He’s trying to be paid as a star when he’s merely a good power threat with relatively average skills (or worse) in every other aspect of his game. A 3/70 offer might be a little light but we keep hearing about Alonso wanting 3/90+ and that’s just absurd. Unfortunately for Alonso, this appears to be yet another instance where Boras was too aggressive and overplayed his hand. Boras is a great agent overall who gets some of his players maximum value but the problem with his strategy in recent years is that the market has pushed back and the result is that just as many of his players end up with well below market deals after overplaying their hand and waiting too deep into the offseason such that they have far fewer potential suitors. Boras is going to need to adjust again. Because all signs point to him having utterly failed Alonso and them being left with no leverage whatsoever. Alonso needs the team far more than they need him and that’s never a good place for a free agent to find themselves in.
Camikey
Agree, dan… I think they end up meeting in the middle, around 3/$80M. Both parties really fit best with one another. It’s probably too much for Pete but it’s also less than he thinks he’s worth, so both sides will have to settle.
VegasSDfan
You are delusional he is not going after 3/80. I am sure he is looking for 300+
Bill
Now THAT’S funny!
CarverAndrews
As a Phillies fan, it absolutely appalls me that Cohen is showing a sense of fiscal restraint, along with a streak of common sense. Someone please fix this.
Miken31
Why would you be surprised? Since Stearns has been there that’s been the approach. And as a Phillies fan don’t you have the dopey owner who once proclaimed they would spend “stupid money?”
RunDMC
I get Soto was Cohen, but was Stearns in the corner counting dust bunnies? ‘A sense of fiscal restraint’ or just an exclusion to take the Battle for NYC?
Jaysfansince92
I remember reading something about his initial demands being somewhere around 200 million.
That would make sense considering he turned down a 156 million extension from the Mets at one point.
Miken31
No Stearns was negotiating for the player that Cohen wanted. It’s clear the edict there from Cohen was get this player at any cost. That’s not the edict for every other player. He’s letting Stearns run things in the way he sees fit. We’ll see how well it works long-term.
dugmet
Smart restraint. Smart restraint. Cohen’s obviously not afraid to spend big on young athletic talent. Pete is one dimensional.
Bart Harley Jarvis
@Miken31,
Dopey? I wouldn’t refer to John Middleton as dopey, but I have heard his behavior can swing from grumpy to sleepy to sometimes bashful.
Miken31
Bart:
Pick a dwarf. Any dwarf.
CarverAndrews
I wasn’t going to bother responding to that Mets fan with comprehension issues, so thanks for handling it with humor.
Middleton is in the running for one of the best owners in all of sports, as he gets it. He wants to win; he truly respects the fan base; he thoroughly grasps that he is a steward for a team rather than an owner with a toy, and while he is involved he is not a meddler. He has more than made up for the initial mistake of hiring Klentak.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Amen, Brother.
bigjonliljon
But who wants to sign a player who’s pissed that he didn’t get the he contract he wanted?
Steve Nebraska's Dad
I don’t think everyone else caught on to your sarcasm.
geofft
Cohen himself said in an interview two years ago that this kind of spending is not sustainable and he does not intend to do so long term. He just plans on doing it for a few years until the minor league system catches up.
In that context, this all makes sense: you can’t just drop from $350M payroll to under $240M overnight. The plan needs to be to scale back spending over the course of two or three years.
Also factor in that the minor league system’s progress is inhibited by the draft pick and international bonus pool penalties, and it makes even more sense to reduce spending sooner rather than later.
CarverAndrews
Well – it was not particularly subtle. In fact it was a show of regretful respect from someone that misses the Wilpon’s running the Mets. ; )
bronyaur
Ora’s is way out of his weight class with Cohen. One is a millionaire, and one is a billionaire.
Miken31
Explain what the comprehension issues are exactly? I love people who try to act smart but disprove it with their responses.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
When Steve Philips was the NYM GM the NYM had a chance to sign Arod.
ARod + 24.ARod wanted so many perks.
There were many concerns not just total $. Among the concerns was how it would effect other players resentment favoritism etc.
Alonso is just the start of many players maybe not in a big hurry to sign with the Mets. Nowadays players can still get almost top $ from maybe 5 other teams with different locations E, W Coast, Midwest etc.
dalejr
The Phillies are old and super expensive. Good luck with that aging team.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Aw, thanks @dalejr. Your kindness is always appreciated.
Paleobros
I think he was being funny
Bart Harley Jarvis
Kind funny?
CarverAndrews
@BartHJ – You might want to think about some form of alerts on this thread if you range anywhere beyond the most concrete statements.
Bart Harley Jarvis
@CarverAndrews,
How’s this?
‼️IRONY ALERT‼️
CarverAndrews
Too subtle…
Miken31
A lot of people in the past have tried to treat Cohen in past like he spends like a drunken sailor. I’ve always appreciated his passion of spending whether it’s worked out or not. So the comment did come off to me as a bit of a shot.
Blue Baron
bronyaur: Who’s Ora?
Blue Baron
YaGotta: That stuff about ARod as a 24+1 guy was just an excuse because Fred and Jeff Wilpon didn’t want to spend the money.
Notice that the Rangers and Yankees didn’t let that stop them.
TheGr8One
Im looking for Salma Hayek under my bedsheets. Doesn’t mean I’m getting her.
robw5555
If thats the case, then Alonso cost himself a 156mm deal and ifred his agent to get Boras who might have promised him the moon. . Every year I say,some owners will see the light. But when you see teams going 10-15 yr deals for hundreds of millons, eventually there is less to go around as other teams dont want any of these huge contracts. When players COhen shell out that much for Soto, they want more.
Fever Pitch Guy
Carver – He’s playing hardball with Alonso because he’s got his eye on Vladdy. As a Phillies fan that should scare you.
Unclemike1526
Wish the Cubs and White Sox had owners and FO people who were” Brutally Honest” With the fans. It’s actually pretty refreshing. And as far as negotiations with Boras goes, Does anybody doubt that for a second?
LordD99
What I wonder is what’s so exhausting? He mentioned the Soto deal was also exhausting. He just keep upping his offer above the Yankees offer. I suppose when Soto asked for things like a suite after basically committing over $800MM that might have been annoying, but exhausting? Same with Alonso. Cohen runs a massive hedge fund where billions are made and lost. Can’t imagine anything is exhausting with Alonso.
Fever Pitch Guy
Uncle – I totally agree! It’s the same with the Red Sox front office and ownership, they think Red Sox fans are so dumb that we would continue to believe their lies for over 5 years – WRONG!!!!
Once trust is gone, it’s very very hard to get back. And when they continue to lie, it’s impossible to get back.
Fever Pitch Guy
Lord – What’s exhausting is us having to read every damn article about how nearly every Top Twelve Team has “interest” in nearly every free agent!!
BTW – Cohen’s hedge fund is making a lot more than it’s losing, it’s massively invested in Nvidia.
CarverAndrews
@FPG – What scares me more is seeing him hire Stearns as a guy that will work to rein in the more impulsive moves. I am going to prescribe a long vacation for Cohen with Jerry Jones so that he can learn how to be a real owner.
Blue Baron
FPG: I am massively invested in Nvidia as well, thankfully. But for my wife and me, that means 807 shares in a portfolio that Cohen would need a microscope to see, lol.
Blue Baron
LordD99: It’s just a figure of speech, not to be taken literally.
Pageup
I think he’s looking for $150/5.
mad1
Fiscal restraint from the muts..now that’s funny
jtango
One logical alternative for the Mets would be to pivot to signing Bregman at 3b and move Vientos to 1b.
geofft
Except that Bregman’s demands are not that different than Alonso’s. He already rejected 6/$156 from the Astros. He is also not interested in a short-term deal and reportedly has multiple offers for 4 and 5 years.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Bregman. God no.
He’s declining too.
.315 OBP. His offense would go to the grave at CitiField.
stymeedone
@ dan
What do you mean “Boras is going to need to adjust again?” This seems rather repetitive. When has he adjusted?
Frank Fds
he turned down the 6 year extension 2 years ago. his old agent messed up. probably why he got fired. so the mets did want him. his market hasn’t developed it. no reason why the mets should change the offer.
case
There are a limited number of teams desperate or stupid enough to guarantee a player big money while giving him constant opt outs and it’s looking like none of them need a first basemen bad enough to go for Alonso.
Since both sides were talking 3 years I’m assuming Boras wanted this modeled after Chapman’s initial contract with the Giants guaranteeing a high AV with opt outs after every year.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Alonso rejected $158 million before Boras. Pete has more responsibility for his current predicament than Boras does. Also, Pete has declined since the $158 M offer.
This is on Pete’s shoulders and it is called American GREED.
Gator50
Well said. Not only has Boras overplayed his hand, he also once again failed to accurately read the room. The room being the overall market for Alonso this off season.
BadMojo
You don’t know that Boras was too aggressive. That’s speculation. Boras might have played his hand perfectly, it just doesn’t align with your ideal situation.
mp2891
Showme – I don’t see it that way at all. Pete wants the Mets to focus only on his HRs and cave to pressure from fans to get a deal that is much better than market. C.Walker is a better player than Alonso and he signed for 3/$60MM. That’s market, with no opt outs. The Mets appear willing to pay above market, but not go crazy. That’s smart.
Fred2023
I think 3/80 is the meeting point. It’s more than his tool is worth, but it’s on par with Walker @ Houston, given that Texas has no income tax and NYS is rife with them.
robw5555
Walker is 3 yrs older and maybe some teams see that as risk. But he is also a gold glove at 1st base. Abreu fooled Hoston and got he same 60 mm 3 yrs at age 36 which was a total bust. He is paid 19.5 this yr.
Flyby
can you show any offer that the competition has given him? Because the Yankees Astros and Nationals have gone other avenues rather than sign Alonso at what he wants. Sounds like Toronto is not giving him what he wants either.
25 a year is about right if there are no opt outs or protections, if he wants other things like opt outs and no trades then the price drops.
stymeedone
As mp2891 notes above, a better player, Walker, signed for 3/$60MM. How does that make $25MM per about right? The market disagrees with you.
Fred2023
Texas has no income tax. New York is famous for taxes.
Flyby
@stymee
very easy answer.
taxes, plus he is younger, and is returning to his team (known entity) that can bring in some people. He also has HR title a couple of times. Its enough to creep it up a few million. Also Alonso is more well known than walker.
GarryHarris
I’m going from my ever fading memory. I once read that players get taxed in every state they play in. TX, FL, NV, WA have no state income tax. CA and GA do not have reciprocity with neighboring states. Canadian taxes are high.
Flyby
very true @gary
but they play the most games at home and many will have homes where they mainly play out of so on home stands they can be with family.
Evil_MrM
…and their pizza and bagels.
It’s easier to find good brisket in NYC than a good slice in TX. 🙂
luclusciano
@stymee, how are you defining “better player”? Mets need the offense in their lineup, and Pete’s offense and age far outweigh what you get from Walker. I don’t know what Pete is worth, he thinks he is worth more than he is, and the Mets are thinking a lot less than he is willing to part with – but the Mets want a smaller deal because they want Vlad next year, and there is no place for Pete on the team – so years two and three on a 3 year contract leave Pete as the odd person out.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Yes, but Texas is in Texas.
Blue Baron
Evil_MrM: Why would anyone think it’s hard to find brisket in NYC? It’s available at any kosher or kosher style restaurant.
Bill
What discount would that be? It’s not like he has a better offer from another team or he would have signed. His perceived value (by teams looking to sign him) clearly does not match what he thinks that he should be getting.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bill – With all due respect, I don’t see any logic with that comment.
So you think a player would immediately sign with another team if offered $5-$10M more?
I strongly disagree with that. Players typically don’t go to a less desirable team unless the money is significantly higher. Especially if it means leaving your longtime team that you really want to stay with.
BCleveland3381
What is the “competition” offering? Because it doesn’t sound at all like anyone is offering him much.
ThatsIT?
If Alonso had that much better offer from other teams he would have signed with them. Alonso is better off taking a one year prove it deal batting behind Soto. He’s not getting a 5,6 7 year deal from anyone so just give up that pipe dream.
geofft
@ ThatsIt He’s shown a willingness to give up that pipe dream. But only at a record-setting (for 1B) price of $31.1M per year. Which is also a pipe dream. Let’s see how long it takes for him to come down from that second dream and see what kind of a contract he finally gets/signs.
seamaholic 2
Pete doesn’t give a hoot what team he’s on. He wants max money. Like all guys in their first go at a market rate deal.
Blue Baron
seamaholic 2: Why do you have a problem with that? They’ve earned the right to be free agents, and it doesn’t harm you in any way.
Best Screenname Ever
edit
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
The opt-out is what is ridiculous. 3/75, no opt out, no NTC clause. The Cubs gave Bellinger the opt-out because they were betting that Crow-Armstrong and Busch would progress last year and they wouldn’t need Bellinger, and they basically had to give him to the Yankees last month. The Mets have no need to give Alonso either an opt-out or a NTC besides the basic 10/5.
martevious
The problem is that Pete has Boras as an agent. Boras doesn’t care about what is best for his clients, only what is best for him.
bigjonliljon
I think Pete has done or said something that pissed Cohen off. He will take him back if the deal is right but that’s only to appease the fans. Other than that he wants to be able to tell the fans that he tried and Pete was demanding too much in a contract.
LETS GO METS/JETS/KNICKS
A discount? Boras some how has convinced Pete that he should be the highest paid 1st basemen in MLB, clearly he is not. Its sad, Pete has been brainwashed bigtime
Brew88
Hey you think you’re exhausted, you think they’re exhausted? well, I’m exhausted too
YellowCleats
Best route for Pete is opt out after year 1. Hit in same line up as Soto and rebuild his stats. Next year when thr vladimir Guerrero jr signing happens wherever it happens then Pete’s contract offers will improve. 2 year contract $48 million ($9 million signing bonus, $9 million deferred) with opt out after year 1 that NYM can negate with $30 million club option for a 3rd year. No trade clause for year 1. Get it done. But I’d like to see Ronny Mauricio play in the majors this year. Pete can hit .285/.375 with 45 HR and 110 rbi in 2025 with nym line up then be free agent after 2025.
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
Yellow if that his true then he should have accepted the QO and gotten rid of the draft compensation.
JackStrawb
@showmebb This is ALL public relations. The Stearns Mets were never signing Alonso. Why would they? Every projection system in existence shows something very much like the following. Here’s Fangraphs for 2025:
–Vientos at 1B: 2.7 fWAR
–Alonso at 1B: 2.4 fWAR
–Acuna-Mauricio-Baty at 3B: 2.0 to 2.5 fWAR
Use your brains, Mets fans. Resigning Alonso gets the Mets NOTHING. Nothing beyond blocking the fastest avenue for their best young prospects as of the 2024-2025 offseason, which will have a significant opportunity cost in 2025, 2026, 2027….
The scenario runs itself. Acuna has the arm and quickness for 3B. He gets the first two months of the season to show what he can do. Mauricio rates to be back in full form around June 1st. If Acuna’s playing well he either stays at 3B or moves to 2B if McNeil is struggling–with Mauricio taking over at 3B. If Acuna and Mauricio falter, Baty gets his shot.
Everybody wants to “play the kids” until it’s actually time to play the kids—then if they’re not Witt or Gunnar, everyone gets nervous and wants to pay a 30 year old in decline $20-30m to fill a hole in the lineup.
Pete’s not an upgrade on their young guys, and at the $25m AAV he wants the Mets can add Flaherty. Or they can sign two more terrific relievers. Or they could have added Jurickson Profar and David Robertson. But their tepid interest in alternatives and willingness to add Winker to DH and PH against RHPing tells us the Mets have been content all along with Acuna-Mauricio-Baty at 3B and with moving Vientos to 1B. This was always the plan—they’re just trying to avoid the worst of a p.r. hit if Alonso has a surprisingly good year, all 3 of the young guys can’t cut it, and the Mets miss the postsesason by a win or two.
Cohen, ‘exhausted’ by negotiations? Please. Boras’ nonsense is irksome, particularly when he’s trying to embarrass the Mets into upping their fake ‘offer,’ but exhausting? How exhausting is it to have an assistant to take Boras’ calls and throw away any messages wrt a player you’re not going near?
realist101
@show –
Maybe. But not likely, imho.
Sounds more like Boras was trying to get the Mets to bid against themselves, and the Mets called his bluff.
Cam
Pete wants an opt out more than he wants to be a Met -probably
TAKERDBACKS
Maybe cause you only care about Soto.
Salzilla
100%. This was the only thing Cohen cared about. Everything else they’ve done has been small market Stearns moves.
16
In the context of Soto and Alonso, who would give Alonso a single second of thought? He’s vastly overplayed his hand and the market. Kudos to Cohen and Stearns for playing this smart and not emotional.
stymeedone
Does it make up for the immense overpay on Soto? That seemed to be a NY pithing contest.
MC Tim C
Hard to call it an immense overpay when there were several teams willing to give Soto close to that much money. No one appears to be willing to give Alonso what he wants.
Heels On The Field
Cohen paid Soto over two hundred million more than any other team was willing to go.
Scott Boras is still having fits of laughter at Cohen bidding against himself.
ManInThePlanet
? Literally 4 teams were at $700m+
Heels On The Field
ROFLOL!
No one bid even $600 million except Cohen.
Most psychotic contract in MLB history.
ManInThePlanet
So, you think the Yankee final offer is a lie?
They offered him $760m/16
The Red Sox final offer was $700m/15
The Blue Jays were well above over $700m
Bobcastelliniscat
The last half of Soto’s contract is going to be ugly. He will be strictly a DH in a few years.
CaptainSportfish
Except Soto was NOT an immense overpay.
$$ per Projected Wins is less than Adames.
CaptainSportfish
You give the facts ManInThePlanet.
Tough to argue with people who willfully remain ignorant.
Heels On The Field
I suppose if you swallow enough acid and schrooms you can project such an outcome over fifteen years.
CaptainSportfish
In 6 years, that value gap of Soto $ for an average DH will be gone:
(1) increased revenue;
(2) increased team asset values (eg real estate);
(3) the compounding effect of 1 and 2;
(4) inflation reducing the inherent future value of $USD;
rct
“Everything else they’ve done has been small market Stearns moves.”
They had the highest payroll in the league last year and will be among the top teams not named the Dodgers this year. Clown comment.
Salzilla
Learn to talk to folks without bringing it down to high school level first.
Simply that high payroll isn’t on Stearns’ watch. And neither is Soto.
rct
“Learn to talk to folks without bringing it down to high school level first.”
Bring your opinions above a high school level and you’ll get talked to like an adult. The Mets have a sky high payroll. Maybe, just maybe, that’s why they’ve been trimming around the edges instead of indiscriminately blowing money everywhere. They just signed the largest contract in US professional sports and you’re saying that they’re penny pinchers. Get real.
Salzilla
I said what I said about Stearns, who you cannot argue has made moves small markets make. You called me a clown, to which I say grow up. I said nothing not true and didn’t try to offend anyone. You could have argued back without getting personal. It’s ridiculous how folks so easily go here.
Soto was a Cohen move, but nothing Stearns has done in two years has shown me he makes his own needle moving moves.
Heels On The Field
Cohen wants to pay Alonso one year of Soto’s salary over three seasons and Alonso says no.
There is someone who is surprised by that outcome?
ManInThePlanet
Small market or just smart and calculated? You can’t just spend like a drunken sailor on multiple FA’s. You then become the Padres.
YankeesBleacherCreature
As any team would. Priority #1 was Soto and achieved. Priority #2 becomes optional.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Honestly, I can’t help but wonder if Alonso feels slighted. Obviously, Soto was always going to command more money, for more years. It can’t be an easy thing for Alonso to hear the Mets start talking about the “expensive” group of players they have now, though.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Of course he does because he’s human and the Mets are the only organization that he knows. However, Alonso made his bed when he rejected the Mets’ big extension offer and chose to use Boras to go into free agency. No one should feel sorry for Alonso including himself.
Salzilla
At the time of the extension offer, Pete was riding high. He had every reason to reject it at the time. Can’t fault him for betting on himself.
robw5555
Once you pay this money for Soto unless you are LA you are not looking for a bunch or a huge deals every season. Met fans demanded Soto. Just like Yankee fans demanded Cole and Judge.
Rsox
Read the room Scott. Either take whatever offer is left on the table in Queens or take your player north of the border if the Blue Jays are offering anything
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Or go to the Angels….
kellin
NO
Motor City Beach Bum
Spencer Torkelson…future NY Mets 1B.
JackStrawb
@Motor City Beach Bum That’s hilarious. Spencer Torkelson, flavor of the day in the rumor mill, who peaked at 1.5 fWAR in three tries. “But the HRZZZ!!!” squeal the tweens.
Motor City Beach Bum
Why not in a change of scenery deal for Baty. Numerous people on here have suggested it.
Basketball geek
Torkelson, Thats’s not far fletched…. Won’t cost much asset wise in trade, cheap salary, I believe 4 years of control. He’s a better fielding 1st baseman than Pete… They can work with him, change of scenery with a new coaching voice may help. He had a good 2023. Stearnes like value, this is pure value… low risk high reward….
CaptainSportfish
Plus Tork is fixable. Every in his metrics and peripherals show that it’s an approach and adjustment issue — not an ability issue.
For the right price, a Tork acquisition would be a worthwhile gamble.
Tork delivering Alonso’s 2024 is well within his high probability range of outcomes.
DigglinDickers
The Mets don’t look like a team that’s goin to win the east.
VonPurpleHayes
3 years in a row, winning the east equates to a bye and an exit. Since the playoff format is a joke, all you have to do is get in. The Mets are good enough to win the World Series.
Fred McGriff HR
@VonPurpleHayes
Did you really type this? The guy that defended the bye & the playoff format to the hilt, and said that there was no disadvantage, when clearly it’s not helpful at all in a hand eye coordination sport. I’m glad you finally came to your senses.
For the people that believe there’s no disadvantage, go and play the game, or go down to the hitting cage and hit everyday and then don’t hit for a week, see if you really light it up after not seeing mechanical pitches, let alone live pitches out of the hand.
metslvt17
Are teams not allowed to hit for a week when they get a bye?
Fred McGriff HR
@metslvt17
Do you really believe hitting off a tee, doing bp, doing live bp, playing intra squad ‘games’, and whatever other hitting drills you want to try or implement replaces playing real games at the play off level? It doesn’t.
No disrespect intended, but you can’t have played the game if you really think any of the abovementioned drills cuts it. Have a nice day.
mp2891
The Mets are an emperor with no clothes team. You would think with Cohen money and reaching the NLCS last year that they would have significantly improved this year this offseason. Aside from Soto, they haven’t done anything really. Their rotation, in particular, seems headed for bottom half of baseball. Not what I expected from the Mets this offseason at all.
raisinsss
1. This means nothing
2. It’s pretty good. They’re at least even.
3. Well, you’ll have to put the effort in to see what they’ve done. Its not hard, but it does take three minutes and an internet connection
4. That’s a personal problem.
Miken31
The problem with making statements like the rotation looks like the bottom half of baseball is that there’s really no fact or basis in that. Most of the guys in the rotation have had recent productive seasons. It might not be the most dominant rotation, but most of those pitchers have had a pretty good track record in recent seasons.
mp2891
Well, the Mets’ rotation was 17th in baseball last year. Do you think they’ve improved the rotation? And if we’re quibbling over whether the Mets are top half or bottom half in anything, is that what you would expect for a Cohen owned team?
mp2891
Whoops. I forgot to limit my list to SP. The Mets were 17th overall in pitching last year, and 19th in starting pitching.
Miken31
So the fact that Senga didn’t pitch at all last year, doesn’t greatly factor into that equation? And there’s no reason to think he won’t pitch this year until we actually see that. There’s no reason to think he’s not healthy now. Manaea was not great in the first half but he seemed to figure things out in the second half. I’m not saying I know he’ll be that pitcher next year but if he has figured something out, that would be a year of that production as opposed to just half a year. Nobody knows for sure how this is going to work out but do I have a reason to think the rotation will be better this year? Yes I do. And by the way, I really do think they need to add another top pitcher to the rotation for a playoff run (Dylan Cease?). Even though they did make a playoff run last year without that. So as far as when I expect from a Cohen run team, I would like to see another big pitcher added, but they do have some young guys coming up from the minor leagues (Sproat, Tong, McLean) who I think they are excited for. I know it’s hard to rely on young guys, but they’re going have to develop some young pitchers like they’ve done in their history.
CommentsSectionCommenter
@Miken31
Meanwhile, are you comfortable with the Mets’ theoretical starting lineup? Do you not think the Mets need to add at least one more legit bat?
From where I sit, the drop-off from Lindor/Soto to Vientos is noticeable–no reason to believe Vientos won’t be as good or better than last year, but it was just one year–and the drop-off after Viento to the rest of the lineup looks significant.
Right now, moving Vientos to 1B and slotting Baty in at 3B would not inspire confidence, given that Baty crashed out of the bigs after 150 ABs a year ago.
And that’s before you consider that the rotation feels at least one frontline guy short, as well.
I get that Soto was expensive, but what’s the point of paying him “all-in” money, if you’re not going to take the rest of the roster to a similar place? Right now, the Mets don’t feel like a top-2 team in the East, and that seems like it should be the baseline target, no…?
Miken31
CommentsSectionCommenter:
I never said anything about them not needing one more bat.I definitely think the Mets need one more bat. And I think it’s going to be Alonso. I think he’s actually the kind of bat they need. They need one more power guy and then that’s a pretty deep lineup. They don’t need anything more offensively than that.
CommentsSectionCommenter
MIken31:
Oh, I didn’t mean to suggest that you did; I was just asking the question, given that you’d mostly discussed the rotation.
And I agree with you, across the board.
Miken31
CommentsSectionCommenter:
Oh, got ya. Sorry sometimes it’s hard to interpret tone in these posts. Sorry if I misinterpreted. Nice chatting with you.
Ma4170
@mp if senga is fully healthy then its a better rotation
Ma4170
I dont think theres a big dropoff from vientos to nimmo. Sure he had an off year but had four straight years of 130+ WRC+ before that, and still hits the ball hard. I would think he’d be closer to 130 wrc+ and 4+ war again than the 109 and 2.7 last year.
Also, i think we’ll see a step forward from alvarez next year in year 3.
Having said that, i think they should sign alonso to a short deal.
mp2891
I don’t have a crystal ball, but for the 2025 season I see the Mets rotation like this.
*Senga – He’s a 2/3 pitcher when healthy, but coming back from a lost year I expect him to be a solid #3 at best this year.
*Manaea – He’s a 3/4 pitcher who has never had 2 good consecutive years. I’m expecting him to have a bad year in 2025
*Montas – I’m actually expecting a pretty good season from him, but even still, he’s a #3 at best in a good rotation (and that’s if he has a good season, which there is no guarantee he will).
*Peterson and Blackburn – 4/5 pitchers
*Holmes – Hard to say, but I’m guessing a #3 at best.
So at the end of the day, I don’t see the TOR pitchers I would hope to see on a playoff caliber team, and certainly a big market rich-owner playoff caliber team. Just my opinion and we’ll soon know if it’s right or wrong.
Miken31
“Senga – He’s a 2/3 pitcher when healthy, but coming back from a lost year I expect him to be a solid #3 at best this year.Manaea – He’s a 3/4 pitcher who has never had 2 good consecutive years. I’m expecting him to have a bad year in 2025“
Why? Pitchers have major injuries and miss seasons all the time and come back to normal the next season. What would be the reason he wouldn’t be able to do that? Again we don’t have a crystal ball, but what would prevent him from being himself again?
“Manaea – He’s a 3/4 pitcher who has never had 2 good consecutive years. I’m expecting him to have a bad year in 2025“
Fair enough but this just disregards the fact that he had an amazing second half last year and changed his delivery, which might’ve unlocked something with him. Maybe it didn’t but you seem to be discounting that.
“Montas – I’m actually expecting a pretty good season from him, but even still, he’s a #3 at best in a good rotation (and that’s if he has a good season, which there is no guarantee he will).“
Actually I think you’re being very generous in this case. I think what you’re saying could be the ceiling of Montas. I think that’s possible, but I actually don’t have high expectations for him. I would take him being a solid number five starter. Giving some innings and keeping the Mets in the game for the most part.
“Peterson and Blackburn – 4/5 pitchers”
I don’t love Blackburn. I think he’s a depth starter so nothing more to say there. Peterson is a wildcard and although some of his underlying numbers might suggest regression I feel like he’s a pretty good pitcher, maybe more of a mid rotation guy. Sometimes it just takes lefties longer to develop. We’ll see about this.
“Holmes – Hard to say, but I’m guessing a #3 at best.“
Fair.
I think where we differ really is Senga and Manaea, but the variation there is pretty big because I think these guys are going to be considerably better than you do. Again only time will bear that out. I agree I would like them to get one more top of the rotation starter. But I think this is a solid staff, and I do expect them to add if not before this season then by the trade deadline. And again they have some young guys. Sprout could be a wildcard if he’s ready to come up a few months into the season. It’s always hard to tell with rookies if they’re going to burst onto the scene and pitch well or they need time to develop.
Michael Chaney
“Aside from paying $765 million for a player, they haven’t done much”
Heels On The Field
Bryce Harper plus Mookie Betts is significantly less than Soto. In fact the difference is more than those two plus what the Mets offered Alonso.
mp2891
Michael – I know, I know… Soto is a stud and will improve the Mets W-L record by 5-10 games. Still, it seems like last year’s playoff run was a bit of luck and getting hot at the right time. I expected more from the Mets this offseason.
Sadface
Really
Soto one batting title, zero Mvps, only hit 40 hrs once and that was last year. One world series championship.
Harper 2Mvps no batting title one 40 hr season.No world series championships.
Betts one Mvp no batting title or 40 hr seasons but 3 world series championships.
No not better than Harper and Betts.
MWeller77
CoHeN iS cHeAp!!!1!
Heels On The Field
But Soto’s contract is Harper+Betts+Alonso’s Mets offer with enough left over for a top level closer.
Heels On The Field
Cohen seems to brick up at the sight of young island guys.
carlos15
Cause Cohen wanted Soto and he drove that and since then it’s been Stearns like he’s still in Milwaukee which is bargain deals and minor league deals, he’s too conservative and cheap for Cohen’s money and desire to win. Stearns has to adjust to being more than a small market GM and he hasn’t at all so far.
Miken31
Carlos, I do agree I would like to see Stearns become a little more flexible to his ways. He’s smart and his ways do work, but he has exactly as many championship rings as I do so obviously there’s more things he can be doing to put a winner on the field.
MetsSchmets
Carlos
You’re really dedicated to this thought that David Stearns “doesn’t realize” his budget increased but it’s such an abstract argument, what players specifically do you think he should’ve gotten that we were too cheap on?
CommentsSectionCommenter
MetsScmets
Not Carlos, but I think they definitely should’ve been in on a frontline ace and Tanner Scott–while also signing Alonso to a deal of their liking/choosing.
Because they absolutely need another bat–and they need some certainty at the top of that rotation–and they need to shorten games and give themselves elite choices at the back of the pen.
Again, you give Soto that deal because you’re committed to building a winner around him, and installing him as a cornerstone is a first step of many. If you’re not planning on doing much anything else, then….best of luck on getting to October with the roster as currently constructed…..
MetsSchmets
@CommentsSectionCommenter
Well Pete hasn’t signed anywhere so lets hold judgement there.
I don’t think they need a bat in 2025 MORE than they want to stay flexible in 2026 and beyond … when a deal with Pete could really be heading south.
A guy who is only 22% better batting than MLB average does not deserve to get the years AND the money AND the opt-outs, or even 2 of those 3.
Additionally it’s time for Stearns to set the tone with Boras because there’s better players coming up that we’re going to want and Boras cannot expect to take advantage of Cohens money every time. It’s unfortunate that its happening to Pete but it needed to happen. It shows me Stearns knows how to play this game.
As far as Tanner Scott, Mets wrapped up Minter easily and without a bidding war by doing it before Scott was signed and everyone pivoted to Minter as a consolation as the next best quality bp lefty. He’s solid, he was easier to get, and they got him. I’m not upset we got Minter over Scott, it shows me Stearns knows how to play this game.
Soto is here for 15 years so what about Year 1 makes you feel like we have to go for it all right now? Where is the sense in that?
Why would anyone mortgage the future to win right now, when our minor league system hasn’t even really begin to produce under Stearns/Cohen restructure yet?
CommentsSectionCommenter
MetsSchmets
But the Mets need another legitimate top-of-the-order bat, and Alonso is arguably the best one available. And the opt-outs don’t really matter. Let’s say he signs for $72/3 (seems fair-ish): If he has a year that makes an opt-out a good idea, then that means things likely went well for the team, and a new deal between newly restored team cult hero and franchise can be done; if he doesn’t, then you’ve got a 1B/DH for two more years, which doesn’t really hamstring the team (even if they sign Vlad, provided they don’t trade for him first). Pete can be the primary DH for two seasons, at which point Soto will likely be all but unplayable in the field and can take over DH duties. (And as for “deserve,” well…he deserves whatever he can get, and I’d argue a guy who has unabashedly loved being a Met has earned a little extra, just for that.)
And AJ Minter is a nice add but Tanner Scott was a slam dunk, for a pen that could certainly have used him. With the rotation that the Mets are apparently going to roll out there–one I’d have definitely sought to bolster at the top–having an elite pen to shorten games is a must–and Scott was unquestionably the best man for the job.
And Soto may be there for 15 years, but his prime is now. Even if that prime lasts six years, you don’t have the luxury of taking your time to ease into a competitive window, because you never, ever know. Not sure how signing a desperately needed bat and a desperately needed arm–for the rotation and/or for high-leverage relief–is mortgaging the future, so much as…doing what’s required to get to October.
I mean…when you just signed an $800M centerpiece, isn’t the point to, ya know, win now….?????
MetsSchmets
“I mean…when you just signed an $800M centerpiece, isn’t the point to, ya know, win now….?????”
No, its exactly the opposite. He got that money BECAUSE he’s young and BECAUSE has longevity. It’s irrational to feel pressure in 2025 on a contract that runs until 2040.
Average MLB production peaks between 28-32; adding in the permanent DH, a lefty bat with high OBP can easily stretch that out well past 32. Soto turned 26 3 months ago.
“you don’t have the luxury of taking your time to ease into a competitive window”
No, its exactly the opposite. The Dodgers could’ve signed Seager and Bellinger to big home-grown fan-favorite deals but they let them walk because it wasn’t the time. A few years later they started spending hard because it was the right time. It’s not the right time for the Mets. This is a weird hill to die on tbh.
“Not sure how signing a desperately needed bat and a desperately needed arm–for the rotation and/or for high-leverage relief–is mortgaging the future, so much as…doing what’s required to get to October.”
I dk how many other ways I can say this. It’s not about OCTOBER 2025, its about the subsequent Octobers. If you can’t see the problem with signing players to top-of-the-market overpay contracts when they’re showing signs of decline then I really dk what to tell you. Im not trying to be rude but that really should be obvious.
“And AJ Minter is a nice add but Tanner Scott was a slam dunk, …. Scott was unquestionably the best man for the job.”]
So this demonstrates you completely missed my point. Negotiations are a process and it’s not a guarantee, even if you’re willing to overpay, which the Mets are not. They didn’t want to get into a bidding war, full stop. When everyone was bidding on the top guy, TANNER SCOTT, the slam dunk, the unquestionably best man for the job, they went and snuck a good value contract with the #2 guy instead of the unpredictability of the bidding war with Scott. This is a smart move objectively.
“But the Mets need another legitimate top-of-the-order bat”
Thats your opinion, I disagree with it.
“Soto will likely be all but unplayable in the field and can take over DH duties” Conjecture.
He’s going to be in right field for at least 6-8 years MINIMUM baring a Mickey Mantle/Ronald Acuna level knee disaster. I dk why you’re bringing this up now, kinda ridiculous tbh. You think he’s gonna get $51M a year to be a DH for over a decade? Get realistic please.
“And as for “deserve,” well…he deserves whatever he can get, and I’d argue a guy who has unabashedly loved being a Met has earned a little extra, just for that.”
This world-salad is just fan silliness. Billionaires don’t get rich by giving away “little extras” for good feels.
CommentsSectionCommenter
MetsSchmets
So…average MLB production peaks between 28-32, but Alonso–who’ll play his age-30/31/32 seasons these next three years–isn’t a player you’re willing to add on a short-term deal, team-friendly deal (because 3/$68-ish isn’t an overpay, so you know)? Particularly when the Mets lineup obviously needs another bat. (I’m not trying to be rude, but if you can’t see that, then I just don’t know what to tell you….)
Because here’s the lineup at present:
Lindor
Soto
Vientos
Winker/Nimmo
Winker Nimmo
Alvarez
McNeil
Taylor/Siri?
Baty
You think that 1-9 is competitive in the NL East, let alone the NL? Because….nope. And while given your response, you seem awfully comfortable semi-punting on the 2025 season; I don’t think most Mets fans share your stance.
Soto got that money–a ridiculous, anti-Ohtani overpay swelled not with “little extras” but “gigantic giveaways”–because Cohen knew (and has always known) that he needed to sign a cornerstone player around whom to build–and to steal that player from the Yankees made it that much more important. Cohen knew he HAD to overpay–and he was right to do it.
But even with Soto’s youth, the competitive window is now open–and there’s no telling when it will close. And as Soto grows less and less athletic, and more and more incapable in right. field, they’ll be forced to move him to the DH spot. And if you think he’ll be playing in RF in five years–let alone eight???????–then you’re literally the ONLY person who thinks that–and you apparently haven’t ever watched Juan Soto play the outfield. Because it’s f–ing BRUTAL. Soto as a DH in four years is baked into the cake, my man; to think otherwise is silly.
As for the Tanner Scott “bidding war,” well…I was unaware there had been one (and I’m a Dodgers fan). I was under the impression that Tanner Scott was available to be signed back in November, and–like the Dodgers have done–the Mets could easily have simply identified the need for elite bullpen pieces (given the rotation they’re apparently committed to and refusing to improve) and spent the money on Scott. Minter is a good signing, but is the delta between the two players such that it was better for them to have ended up with Minter at his cost? I don’t think it is–again, particularly with the rotation as currently constructed.
So…good luck on being a perfectly functional but ultimately uncompetitive team in 2025. I’m sure you’ll be just one of countless Mets fans happy to not make the playoffs next year, happy in the knowledge that being pretty good was always the point.
(And if you don’t want to factor into a price being the happily willing face of a franchise that’s long been an LOLMets laughingstock, that’s fine. But as a filthy-rich owner, I’d have no problem giving Pete an extra $1M per, just because.)
Flyby
Well how about a lineup consisting of
Alvarez
Alonso
McNeil
Lindor
Baty
Nimmo
Bader
Marte
Stewart
thats what they started the season with … even if you want to use the real lineup of
Alvarez
Alonso
McNeil/Iglesias
Lindor
Vientos
Nimmo
Bader/Taylor
Marte
Martinez
they are basically the same with alonso being replaced by soto and bader with siri. The one bat that hasnt been replaced is JDM which with Marte probably moving to dh duties will be between baty/mauricio/acuna.
This also doesnt include the potential upgrades on the bench and having a decent backup catcher for the full season. Nido and Navaez were horrible along with potentially having vientos for a full season and maybe more out of marte since he is not having as much wear and tear in the field. Would i like Alonso back, for sure as it will make the lineup better but this lineup got you to just outside the world series.
MetsSchmets
“So…average MLB production peaks between 28-32, but Alonso–who’ll play his age-30/31/32 seasons these next three years–isn’t a player you’re willing to add on a short-term deal, team-friendly deal (because 3/$68-ish isn’t an overpay, so you know)?”
Yeah man exactly. On average decline starts somewhere between 28-32, PETE is 30, 30 is between 28-32.
The price keeps going down btw like 2 comments you pitched Pete @ 72M/3 and now its 68M/3 so if it keeps going really low then YES it becomes worth it. A value deal is good. Nothing like what he’s reportedly asking.
“Particularly when the Mets lineup obviously needs another bat. (I’m not trying to be rude, but if you can’t see that, then I just don’t know what to tell you….)”
Yikes man
“So…good luck on being a perfectly functional but ultimately uncompetitive team in 2025. I’m sure you’ll be just one of countless Mets fans happy to not make the playoffs next year, happy in the knowledge that being pretty good was always the point.”
The playoffs aren’t in January tho chill
JackStrawb
@DigglinDickers True, but they look good enough to make the postseason, projecting to 90 wins and probably intent on adding another win or two given the importance of marginal wins at this stage.
To get to 50-50 to win the division the Mets would need to add Bregman and outbid the Dodgers for Tanner Scott in addition to Minter. They also probably would have outbid the Jays for Santander.
And for what? To boost their chances of winning the World Series from around 4% to 6-7%?
Half or 2/3 the time they win the division, but that doesn’t always mean they skip the wild card round.
And what does this do to them in 2026, 2027, 2028 when their new, old free agents in decline continue to decline, adding another $70-90m to their payroll those years for guys who are performing like Marte did in 2024?
Just when the farm is really producing you’ve saddled the Mets with old players making a fortune instead of being able to complement prospects and young players with free agents at positions of need.
Bill M
You have to give Cohen some credit for being so candid.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Soto had leverage, Alonso does not
danumd87
Precisely. Boras did it again. Overplayed his hand and backed his client into a corner. Alonso is still going to be a very rich man but I don’t think Boras has done him any favors this offseason.
Miken31
What players need to realize is that if you are one of the premium players in baseball, Boras is the agent for you because he will squeeze every penny out of an owner. But if you are a second level free agent, he will overplay his hand, and you will ultimately end up with a contract lower than what you would’ve probably had if you had a different agent. I think Scott Boras is sort of becoming like an aging player. He might be losing a skills a little bit, but the front offices are also becoming smarter and surpassing his skills as an agent.
jtango
Maybe he is being candid… or maybe he is more trying to cover himself from blowback from Alonso fans when Alonso signs elsewhere. (perhaps both)
JackStrawb
@jtango The latter is exactly what Cohen’s doing.
Alonso is a genuine p.r. problem, particularly with Boras continually dragging the Mets back into ‘negotiations’ in order to conceal how poor the market is for Pete.
It’s possible, not likely but possible that the plan all along—to move Vientos to 1B and try Acuna-Mauricio-Baty at 3B doesn’t work particularly well and Alonso has a good year—the FO will live, but they’ll take some heat for it.
But they know any 3, 4, 5 year deal for Pete is likely to go sour, so Stearns is willing to go with his judgment. Good for them—signing Alonso would have been the easy road to take. Most teams would have done it already. This bodes well for the team’s future.
foppert3
For sure. It’s good. I like him for it. Prepared to wear any blowback. Respect.
top jimmy
I don’t understand sticking at 3 years. I’d be comfortable giving him a 4th year. He just turned 30. You honestly think the Polar Bear is not going to have anymore pop in his bat at age 34? I’ve seen power hitters who take less care of themselves than Pete does keep hitting for power beyond age 34.
danumd87
The issue is that the market is rejecting spending big dollars on players with such limited skill sets. 20-30 years ago a power hitting first baseman was a must for almost every contending team. The John Oleruds of the world were the extreme exception. But now there are so few monster power hitting first baseman as the game has evolved and (a) fewer of those guys exist without steroids, and (b) these guys have been coached and developed to stay lean so they can play other more important positions. And most winning teams do so without a slugging first baseman in today’s game. Thus, Alonso has found his limited skillset met with an equally limited market. There’s no reason for the Mets to give the extra year or too many dollars. They have all the leverage. This isn’t a charity, no matter how much some people’s fandom would like it to be. Alonso is a 30 year old first baseman whose skillset is becoming more narrow as his bavg has been quite poor two years in a row and who in his platform year had a sub .800 OPS. He’s probably looking at either a long-term deal at lower dollars than expected (like Santander 5/92 and crazy deferrals) or short-term with an opt out but only slightly higher dollars (much closer to 3/69 than 3/90). I think he’ll end up finding somebody to pay him a little more than the Mets last offer. 3/75 with an opt-out after year 2 sounds about right to me.
mp2891
Jimmy – The problem is that right-handed power hitting 1B don’t always age well. Alonso had 3.8 fWAR in 2022, 2.8 fWAR in 2023 and 2.1 fWAR in 2024. The trend is clear. Even a 3/$60MM contract is a bad signing if not for Alonso being a fan favorite.
Ma4170
2023 was due to a .205 babe which wont happen again. And he still managed 46/118 which only a few players can actually produce. Last year was a bad year but i think he’s far from done.
mp2891
Come on Ma4170…. Don’t make me go look up his stats to make sense of your post (46/118). How hard is it to put in the HR/RBI? As for his BABIP, yeah a .205 BABIP is out of character for Alonso, so a better BABIP will support his bat going forward. Still, he wasn’t good last year at the plate or in the field, giving him 2 years of declining production and he’s getting older. It’s not my money, but I would offer 3/$60MM and hold firm.
Ma4170
@mp is that sarcasm about the 46/118? If so, my apologies. If not, youre debating about declining production without knowing his primary counting stats well enough to recognize them when someone mentions them? The 205 babip was an aberration, and with his normal babip his avg and obp wouldn’t have been so far off fron 2022 and his WRC+ would have been above 130 again. So I dont really call it two declining years. One for sure, but it can also just be a bad year. It happens
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
I think it is more the defensive ability of both Pete and Soto. By 2028 it’s likely that one of them is going to have to DH, but if they are both defensive liabilities then what?
R3
Regarding length of contract… take this hypothetical. You’re the Mets and you are watching the Dodgers become the behemoth based on building a neverending pipeline of high end talent from Japan coming in. You have to compete somewhat now but more in the long run to protect your investment and be a sustainable playoff contender. You’ve built up the farm system and infrastructure but now what. You have just claimed 2 of the 5 or so best Latin American players on long term deals (Lindor and Soto) and you’ve heard that Guerrero Jr. REALLY wants to play with Soto and is a free agent next year. He’s the best 1B playing and still young.
So if you’re Cohen, isn’t the play to make yourself the premiere destination for top end Latin Am free agents and doesn’t getting VG Jr corner that market for you? So your primary strategy is pairing VG Jr with Lindor and Soto. In 6-7 years, you need Soto to be a DH. In 3-4 years, Vientos your young power hitter needs to shift to 1b or DH. So DH is locked up anything after 2-3 years and your primary goal is signing a key 1b next year.
Now how long of a contract are you willing to offer a 1-dimensional aging RH 1b with 2 straight down years who is asking for the highest AAV ever of a 1b but hasn’t performed as a top 3 1b in 3 years. Now you understand his frustration and the Mets holding the line on not giving an over the top contract in 2025. And I say all of this being completely transparent that Pete Alonso is my favorite player… but I get what the Mets are doing here.
CommentsSectionCommenter
R3:
If you think Juan Soto is going to be playable in RF for another 6-7 years, please pass that bong, my good friend. He’s maybe got half that–maybe.
And still–even if Vlad is the real target whose theoretical price tag is presumably holding up the Alonso negotiations–you can give Alonso a three-year deal and have spots for everyone. Alonso can play 1B this year, and then when Vlad arrives (in your scenario), Alonso can shift to DH for his final two seasons. (And if he has an opt-out that he ends up using after this season, it likely means things went well for both team and player, and a new deal with a resurgent cult hero can be done.)
But make no mistake: Soto is going to need to DH in four years, which means a newly arrived Vlad is going to have to play 1B (you’re not going to want an aging Vlad returning to 3B), which means Vientos is going to be your 3B for the foreseeable future, with perhaps occasional DH days to give Alonso/Soto a blow.
And the idea that “you have to compete somewhat now” is one I simply do not understand. No one is saying to mortgage the future, but more to the point, you signed an $800M cornerstone who is entering his prime. If you think they can afford to slow-play the competitive window they’re entering–by not signing a desperately needed top-of-order bat and/or frontline arm–then the Mets are doing it wrong.
Because as of now, this roster isn’t a top-2 team in the East, which will make October awfully difficult to reach…..
JackStrawb
@top jimmy Yes, that’s exactly what every projection system thinks. Alonso’s already in steep decline. His SLG is already to .459, FORTIETH BEST in MLB compared to his 2019 peak of .583.
.583
,
,
,
,
.459
,
,
,
,
2029—Pete’s a huge favorite to be out of the game by 2029.
—That ‘you’ve seen power hitters who…’ is completely irrelevant. It’s what MOST 30 yo R-R 1Bmen with one skill who are now in steep decline will do over the life of the deal. Bringing Pete back would be a big step backward, never mind how it freezes Vientos at 3B and blocks the Mets current best young position players.
Yankee Clipper
Well, I guess he cares about his money after all. Seriously though, I doubt Cohen will operate as if there is no limit, and this exemplifies the cases in which he will draw a line. He went all the way for Soto, but the players/Boras feeling like that universally raises the ceiling on years and/or money will be left figuring out how they misplayed the market again.
Same goes for whichever teams Bregman is expecting to overspend.
ReyDay
I feel like Cohen is willing to spend if you are a difference maker and or the right side of 30. Pete’s a difference maker but with 2 down years in a row and a 1 trick poney at this stage of the game and possibly a Vlad/Tucker offer next year, I think Cohen feels like he doesn’t need Pete and thus is not willing to overpay even though he could.
larkraxm
That isn’t the same as “limitless payroll”. No matter how much people think Cohen has, we are seeing the limits this off season. Clay Holmes and Frankie Montas are “budget” starters, not the result of “limitless” payroll.
ReyDay
That’s the result of Stearns and both those signings happened before Soto though ? I guarantee you if Vlad or Tucker were FA right now Cohen would be going all out again to sign one of them. Just cause you have the $ doesn’t mean you spend it recklessly.
larkraxm
The fact that they happened before Soto makes it worse. I don’t think much of your “guarantee”, but I will address it. I’m not as sure as you are that Tucker or VGJ would get Cohen to spend what those players will get in the market plus the 110% tax penalty the Mets would owe. I think that I am saying the same thing that you are, the Mets are not going to catch money on fire. The implications from Mets fans (and I’m sure the sales pitch to Soto) was that “money was no object” for the Mets. It is. That is all I was trying to say.
ReyDay
Fans have to realize Cohen is not running this team, Stearns is and he’s not one to spend big on certain types of players. Yes Cohen can step in and get a player from time to time but Stearns is the guy in charge. And yes I absolutely think Cohen would step up for a Vlad or Tucker. These type of difference makers don’t come up often at 26 and 28 years old when they hit FA. Also I said this before on another thread but people need to stop second guessing Stearns right now, his teams made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years and took what was basically a 3rd place middle of the pack team and took em within 2 games of the WS without their best pitcher Senga last season. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. But yes I agree too that they aren’t gonna through good money around just to appease the fan base.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Deep down NYM believes Alonso’s game has too many limitations -overall defense, range, not hitting with RISP, K’s rising and someone who is a below avg baserunner who will likely be hitting into rally killing double plays.
35- 42 HRs with say 85 RBIs as an average per season aren’t enough to overcome the other issues.
NYM are trying to go from good, very good to highly competitive.
Not just make the playoffs but be a team that can beat PHI, ATL, CUB, SDP, AZ, LAD in a short series
Salzilla
When you spent 800 million, welp, you’re forced to care about every other dime. Honestly in hindsight I’m definitely happy we didn’t land him. Our offseason has been much better than theirs overall.
Miken31
When you say our off-season has been better, I assume you’re talking about the Yankees but correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t like the Yankees off-season. I think Goldschmidt is washed and Bellinger is only OK. I have serious concerns about their offense. Their pitching does look good. Fried and Williams are good short term bets, but that’s all. Williams is a free agent after the season and eight years was absurd for Fried. The Mets have more than enough money to spend. They’re just trying to be fiscally sound. We know Cohen at any instant could say I want this player and go after him. They’re trying to build something sustainable and long-term. But signing players like Fried for 8 years is just more of the same issue where the Yankees then don’t want to spend on the big players because they have so many bad contracts down the line.
Salzilla
Miken, I counter with I don’t think Goldschimdt is washed and it’s only one year, Fried so going to deliver for the Yankees in more than half that contract, Bellinger is perfect for this team (him and Paul make the defense better too), adding Williams and Cruz to the bullpen makes it a whole lot better even if the former is only for one year. If the Yanks go all the way with him who cares?
We’ll see how the sustainability of the Mets team shakes out. I mean yes the Yanks were going for Soto, too, but at the end of the day that ridiculous contract lands with y’all and who knows how that realistically affects their roster in years to come. Already the rest of their offseason is eh. I’m not a fan of Manaea, Holmes from a NYY perspective is mind boggling, Minter is good, and Winkler is ok.
I feel like I’m forgetting someone on both sides, but I mean if you want to say Soto alone makes them the winner you more than have that right, but overall I personally like ours better and think our team looks really good on paper so far.
Miken31
Salzilla:
I can’t say it’s only one year with Goldschmidt when he’s in his late 30s. That is a point when most players lose it or already have lost it. So I see signs of that in him already and I can’t imagine it’s going to be better than last year. We shall see. I think Bellinger has a decent ceiling, but we’ve also seen him have a pretty low floor at times. And he’s also only average defensively. This debate is probably pointless because as a Yankee fan you’re going to see things half full for them and half empty for the Mets and as a Mets fan I’m probably going to see things half full for them and half empty for the Yankees. The season will bear out what it bears out. Basically you took the negative of every Mets move without discussing the potential positive. And then you take the positive with every Yankee move without mentioning any of the potential negative. The truth probably lies in the middle of what we were both saying. Ultimately Cohen is not going to let Soto’s contract get in the way of fielding a competitive team. Even with that contract, they’ve still signed several players this off-season and very likely aren’t done. The guy’s a fan and this kind of money is never going to get in the way of him going after players. It’s all about if they think the player is worth it or not. If Vladimir Guerrero was a free agent, they would be all over him right now and not give it a second thought.
Salzilla
You’re right on we’re always going to disagree on most of this, but I leave this convo with this because I heard it from Joe Benningo (sp) today on the Fan while driving and I agree, if Cohen is such a fan why is he letting a homegrown player that’s helped carry that team for years go? You needed Manaea, but he could have shaved all the other moves and found more money for Pete. To me, that’s egregious, and I know many Mets fans feel the same. This isn’t a nobody and folks saying otherwise are towing a company line that belies his contributions.
Miken31
Oh God, please don’t quote Joe Beningo to me. Lol. As much as I like Joe as a person, I don’t always look at him as the brightest bulb in the box. But I’m going to tell you a quick story from many years ago. We were leaving a Mets game and the Mets had won and we stuck in traffic driving out and I look over the next car and it’s Joe Beningo. And we said hey Joe and he said yeah great day and the Mets have a better record than the Yankees. Lol I guess at that point in the season the Mets must’ve had a better record than the Yankees and that always stuck out to me. As far as letting the homegrown player go, first of all, Alonso hasn’t left yet so we can’t really say that’s true. But I myself don’t put a lot on the homegrown player thing unless you think the player is really really worth bringing back. They’ve put their value on him and they don’t want to bid against themselves. I can’t really have fault with that. That’s not about Cohen not wanting to spend money. It’s about value. I think value is the keyword when it comes to this front office run by Stearns. I’m also curious about you saying you’re not much of a fan of Manaea. I get away from previous seasons why, but my God the guy was absolutely amazing the second half of the year. I can’t say I know he’ll replicate that, but they got him back on a reasonable contract at a time when it seems he’s really figured some things out. We shall see.
ReyDay
@Salzill I hate that notion just cause you’re a homegrown star the team needs to poney up for you. Look at every other hitter this year besides Soto. Not 1 even scratched the 30MM average/year. Compare to Santander who is prob the closest comp to Pete and it looks even more absurd to throw 90M his way. The 23AAV for 3 years is more then fair for a player with two consecutive down years on the wrong side of 30. Plus Mets made him a great offer already with the 158MM 7 year extension, why do Mets have to big the bigger person when Pete refuses to budge one way or the other.
geofft
@ Sal Benigno needs to cut the cr@p with the, ‘the fans want” nonsense,. At the end of the day, what the fans really want is for the team to win a title. If and when they do, the fans will forgive and forget all about Alonso.
larkraxm
To me, Goldschmidt was a flyer. He makes slightly more money from the Yankees this season than Aaron Hicks. If he is washed, then Ben Rice plays first and whatever. We went to the WS with Ben Rice making the lion’s share of the starts at first base last season. If he has anything left, then great. I don’t think the Yankee’s off season success or failure rides and dies with Goldschmidt. The real tale will be told in the starting rotation. If Cole, Rodon, Fried, Gil, and Schmidt perform like we think they will, then the Yankees will run away with their division. If Montas, Manea, and Holmes perform like they did in the past couple of years, the Mets have a pretty average rotation. Look at Fried’s contract as a “deffered contract” and 8 years isn’t so bad. it’s not like they are paying him $10 million dollars 10 years after his contract is up. I also think that a team that signed a player to a $765 million 15 year contract can stand in judgement of any other contract.
Miken31
I’m not sure how we can look at Holmes performance as a reliever and translate that as a starter. The Mets, obviously he has lotta upside as a starter though.I think the Mets are banking that Manaea really figured something out the second half of last year so maybe he won’t exactly be that pitcher but I don’t think he’s going to be the guy who struggled before that either. Montas is a total crapshoot. I have no idea.
larkraxm
Exactly. He could barely get through one inning and the Mets plan to get them through 5 plus??? I know the Mets think that he can be a starter. I watched a lot of Clay Holmes the last few years, and have a hard time seeing what they are seeing. Manaea is a strong candidate to return to the mean, and Montas is rotation depth to me, not a guy who will compete every five days. More questions than answers in that rotation is all I’m saying.
MetsSchmets
Salz:
“We’ll see how the sustainability of the Mets team shakes out. I mean yes the Yanks were going for Soto, too, but at the end of the day that ridiculous contract lands with y’all and who knows how that realistically affects their roster in years to come. ”
…………………………………………………
We’ll be ok, our owner is obviously not afraid to spend to upgrade and he’s the richest person to ever own a team.
Also not for nothing but aren’t the Yanks in a much more precarious position, contract wise? I mean LeMahieu 15m, Rodon 27,8M, Bellinger 25M all here at least through 2026?could all be brutal
MetsSchmets
Joe legit seems like a nice guy and all but his opinions are puddle deep,. He just cannot see the big picture. Not terribly upset he’s retired
foppert3
He is a dude. He has got competitive juices flowing through his system. Sometimes you have to prioritise being you. He is not letting Boras win. He feels strongly about it. Fair call. It’s his pride and his money.
larkraxm
Mets fans keep talking about how their “richest person ever to own a team” is “unlimited”, yet they won’t pay Alonso and have signed a collection of “discount” arms to fill their rotation. I don’t buy what you are selling. Obviously, Alonso’s asking price has Cohen frustrated and he remains unsigned. The Yankees may not have the richest owner ever, but they do generate more revenue and are valued more than any professional franchise in the history of the world. Don’t worry about $68 million coming off the books the year after this. It’s nothing.
Miken31
You think they’re just pulling this plan from the sky? And Holmes wasn’t great as a closer last year but then he was much better once he was out of that role last year. Obviously, they think his stuff can play for multiple innings. Look as the Yankees fan you’re gonna come out with the absolute most negative outcome for Mets players and I probably will do the same thing for Yankee players. Neither of our opinions are exactly unbiased. I look at the Yankees offense and I see holes all over the place. I might be right, I might be wrong. Most teams have their flaws.
Miken31
If you know anything about the Mets, you know that this is not about Cohen. Before Stearns was there, Cohen would throw his money all around. Stearns has a different way of doing things and Cohen is deferring to that. I’m sure Stearns agreed to come to the Mets with an understanding that he would have the latitude to do things in the way he sees fit. What exactly aren’t you buying? The guys got $20 billion. That’s not made up. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, It’s not about Cohen not being willing to spend the money. David Stearns is all about the proper value and he will not budge from what he thinks is the correct value. I personally would like to see him deviate from that some and be more flexible since the Mets can easily spend over mistakes, like giving a pitcher a long-term contract if it doesn’t work out. And who knows, over time he might be willing to deviate, especially if the results don’t end up in a World Series.
ReyDay
@larkraxm Please give me one reason why the Mets need to overpay for Alonso? He has 0 leverage and you still want to meet his asking price, why? And of course Yankees generate more revenue they’ve been the most popular/successful team for decades until recently while Mets had Coupons running them for decades.
Salzilla
Miken, I had to step away, but lark continued the argument nicely. The problem with your positive/negative position is that the Yankees genuinely got guys that have performed in Fried, Bellinger (he had a bum shoulder when he didnt), Williams, and yes even Goldschimdt who was much better as last season wore on. We’re talking two forner MVPs, one of the best closers in baseball and a highly regarded left hander. No level of fandom can compare that level to what the Mets got besides Soto. Manaea, Montas (that’s who I was forgetting), and especially Holmes just aren’t on that level. Especially when there were legit great pitchers on the market. So based on this offseason, I would not be as confident as you are that the Soto deal won’t affect payroll. Hey I could be wrong sure, but man I know if I got Soto I’d make sure to surround him with more high level players asap. Perception is a major part of gaining customer confidence afterall. And to tie this all up with a bow, signing Pete back to protect Soto would go a long way in changing that perception.
Miken31
Salzilla:
You like what larkraxm has to say because he does the same thing as you, looking at every positive of the Yankees and every negative of the Mets. Goldschmidt didn’t perform well. He had an OPS under .700 for four months of the season. So again you’re only looking from one side of the coin. Cody Ballinger had a .750 OPS with 18 home runs and 78 runs better. He’s an OK player. His defense is only average. The Yankees on offense are a wing and a prayer in a lot of positions. A lot of their young players have not developed that well. And there’s very few guys I would look at that lineup and say oh yeah that’s a really tough guy to pitch too. I mean outside of Judge who would you say that about? I do like what they’ve done with their pitching though.As far as the Mets, did Manaea not pitch like one of the best pitchers in baseball in the second half of the season last year? I mean you’ve seen Cohen‘s history and you just want ignore it that’s fine. Again, it’s obvious that Stearns has a plan and he doesn’t want to deviate from that. Stearns probably wouldn’t have signed Soto if Cohen didn’t say go sign him. If Vlad Guerrero was on the market right now, Cohen would say go sign him. This is not about not wanting to spend the money. Mathematically that just doesn’t make sense for a guy with $20 billion who is a fan of the team and is not concerned about the Mets as a business. Sterns has his assigned values and he doesn’t want to deviate from that. Again, we will see over time if Cohen is comfortable sticking with that. If the results aren’t there, I have a feeling he’s going to step in more. I do still think in the end that Alonso is going to be resigned.
slider32
Cohen wants Vlady and if he signs Alonzo he can’t get him next year!
Basketball geek
Exactly, they’re going after JR… but if they got an agreement with Pete short term they could live with it for the fans… Pete’s gone, Mets are going with the kids in 2025…..
J0hnnyRing04013
I completely understand an agent talking up his clients. But I think Boras is filling his clients head with prices the market isn’t bearing out. At some point I think he’s gonna lose more clients simply because of his lack of “reading the room”.
danumd87
He’s forgetting the very important part of managing your client’s expectations. I’m an attorney and this is one of the most important aspects of our job. If we fill our client’s head with nonsense in order to get/keep the client all that’s going to happen in the end is you either get fired or have a very unhappy client with you desperately trying to rewrite history after the fact. Boras is a very very successful ambulance chaser equivalent of an agent. He talks a big game and sometimes hits but for the rest of his clients who bought into his song and dance he ends up letting them down.
justkidding
Mets have to pay 110% tax on Pete’s salary, I don’t think they have wanted him back at all since signing Soto.
raisinsss
They apparently wanted him back at the terms they’ve already offered him.
And no one has yet surpassed them, afaik.
I still pick him to go to the angels on a terrible deal, like 125/5 with 1-2 opt outs. That’s the deal I saw happening when they kept him at the deadline and it’s still what I think will happen.
Mets&SkenesFan
Yes. The Mets want to move on from Alonso. They have a list of players for 1B. I think they want to keep Vientos at 3b if possible. Trading for Torkelson I heard a report is an option too.
stymeedone
Baty is not an option. What do the Mets have that would interest the Tigers? I don’t see a SP or potential closer being offered. The Tigers need a RH power hitter, or a solid defensive 3B. The tough part for them trading Torkelson is Torkelson’s 2023 numbers are exactly what they need.
Mets&SkenesFan
Maybe Mauricio for Torkelson. His power comes from the right side and he can shift to second base too.
raisinsss
Curious how Tigers fans would react to this.
Knowing only Maurcio’s upside and risks (more so after this injury) and Tork’s fallen star status, it seems relatively fair?
Ma4170
Torkelson for Baty makes sense as both are former top prospects who could use a change of scenery and different coaching perspectives.
The mets are not trading mauricio for torkelson, even w mairicoo’s injury concerns.
Mets&SkenesFan
Baty has never shown he can hit MLB pitching for a stretch. Torkelson has in 2023 and Mauricio has for a shorter amount of time that year. These 2 players line up better for both teams needs if Alonso leaves. I see Baty as a non starter for the Tigers including he hits from the left which they don’t need. Remember Mauricio star has also fallen. He was once Mets number 1 prospect but now a number 6. Just throwing that out there. Also I think Acuna passed Mauricio on the Mets depth chart.
Ma4170
Well his star only fell bc of the injury, not due to performance. Losing the year and the slow recovery has hurt his present value. But he has much higher upside than Acuna if he can get healthy again.
If I were the mets i wouldn’t move mauricio for Tork.
larkraxm
That shouldn’t matter, right? Cohen and the Mets print money!!
johncoltrane
Mets not gonna W with winker baty siri. They need a bat like pete’s. Its not a 10 yr deal, its 3
geofft
@ johnc Maybe. But not so sure they’re going to win with Alonso. They turned over 40% of last year’s roster. Too many holes to fill in one off season. And that roster (arguably) overachieved, anyway. The issue is that the higher level minor leaguers all stagnated or regressed last year, and there’s a huge gap between that wave and the next one in terms of time-till-MLB-ready. keep building the foundation.
johncoltrane
this is exactly why re signing pete to a 3 yr deal is necessary. the young bats need more time. 3 yrs means he’s not tying up a lineup spot long term. also, he had a great postseason which somehow everyone has wiped from their memories. its absurd to think the mets are better off without him than with him, which is what many people believe. sean manea got 75$mil. there’s no way on earth he is worth more than pete alonso
geofft
But pete doesn’t necessarily make them a winer. And giving him the $$ he asked for inhibits their ability to build the farm.
just to be clear, I’m OK with giving Pete 3 years, and I agree they could have gone to $75 or $78M. But there’s no basis for thinking Pete would have taken that. Boras was at 3/$93 when the Mets countered with $69. So where was the Boras counteroffer? Nowhere that we know of.
The way Boras himself framed it in his talk to the press, they were offering (i.e. coming down to) that 3 years if he got a record-setting (for 1B) AAV. AND he wanted opt-outs with that.
Sorry, but I agree with the Mets on this one. They’re not in the business of helping someone set a $$ record just for the sake of giving them a record. And if they agree to overpay Pete, right on the heels of the Soto deal, then every other free agent is going to expect them to overpay as well.
raisinsss
Ok WFAN 1AM caller
Also, it’s only another $30m between 70 and 100. what’s the big deal?
Ma4170
Agree that they would be better w Alonso.
foppert3
Poor old Pete swapped agents on an expectation that isn’t there for him. No fun there for anyone other than the scorned agent.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Pete Alonso would look good in Orange and Black in Baltimore
raisinsss
I’d think the vague similarities in appearance to Chris Davis would be too traumatic.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
I hate that excuse and second i didn’t want to re-sign Davis
Davis’ problem in the end was that he could not identify pitches…he could not get the bat off his shoulder and the shift…Polar Bear has no such issue and a totally different personality
Smh
raisinsss
This is absolutely Pete Alonso when he’s slumping.
Granted, he’s never slumped like CD, but he looks just as lost at times, especially recently.
In nurse follars
These salary numbers are meaningless to me. Take it or leave it, i dont care about super rich people arguing over money. They live in a different reality than me. So who cares. Move on. Play ball.
SalaryCapMyth
Your comment deserves more up votes than it has gotten. You seem to have a grasp on how the super wealthy don’t have anything in common with the rest of us. Millionaires and billionaires fighting over our pittance isn’t the sport I’m interested in watching either.
whyhayzee
I think Pete thought they’d be fighting over him like Error in Judgement. That some teams would drive the price up substantially enough to get a big contract out of the Mets or he would move on. He was wrong.
foppert3
Pete thought what Boras sold him. That’s why he dominates.
He sells himself really well. In more recent times, there’s been big gaps on what he has said he can do and what he actually can do. Players don’t have the knowledge to form an accurate expectation. It’s why they employ agents.
Ezpkns34
I get it, Steve. I find the Alonso articles exhausting too
t0bIe1CaN0bI
Am I missing something here? The richest owner in all of baseball and he doesn’t want to pay Pete? This is all because his pre-existing contract ended. This is just continuing the relationship. Is a raise validated? I would think so. If this wasnt a contract year Steve would be over the moon about Pete being his 1b.
mp2891
Why is a raise “validated”?
t0bIe1CaN0bI
Has he not been a premium 1b?
rct
“Has he not been a premium 1b?”
He has not. He’s been average or a touch above. He’s not elite.
mp2891
Toble – If you’re looking at his career to date, then sure Alonso has been a good 1B. If you look at the last 2 years, he’s been ok, but trending down. However, I would have no interest in paying Alonso for past performance if I were the Mets.
t0bIe1CaN0bI
Ok cool. I respect your opinion. So what do you think he’s worth?
JackStrawb
If you actually believe this, you know less than nothing.
God only knows what you’d need to unlearn just to get to zero.
“Premium”?? Holy xxxx.
t0bIe1CaN0bI
Slow your roll chuck. We’re just talking baseball.
mp2891
Toble – I would offer 3/$60MM to Alonso and be willing to go to 3/$75MM because he’s a fan favorite, but in all seriousness, I doubt he puts up 7.5 fWAR over the next 3 years and any extension will be seen as an overpay by 2028.
t0bIe1CaN0bI
That makes sense.
t0bIe1CaN0bI
You don’t think he’s worth more than 20 per yr?
geofft
More than 20 per year? Guess what: he was OFFERED more than $20 per year – TWICE. And HE turned it down – TWICE. No, he is not a premium 1B. He is merely a premium HR hitter, and one who seems to be in decline. And therein lies the problem. He wants to be paid as THE premium 1B.
ManInThePlanet
Lol, Boras corp. is not asking $20m per year. They are asking close to $30m which is way above his market rate.
raisinsss
Bruh if he was willing to play for 63m/3, the Mets (and nearly anyone else) would take him. Boras wanting like 100/3 with opt outs.
10centBeerNight
Pete and his blowhard agent look terrible here. And when Baty and Mauricio break out a la Vientos, will be fun to hear all the revisionism
rememberthecoop
It’s for the best, anyway, since Vientos is pretty bad defensively at 3B, and so he needs to move to 1B.
JackStrawb
He gains about half a win just by moving to 1B.
C-Daddy
This saga is getting exhausting. Just sign with the Jays already.
Aaron Sapoznik
Aside from being a fan favorite, Alonso is a better fit with the Mets. He can offer Juan Soto similar lineup protection to what Aaron Judge provided him with the Yankees last season.
As for the Blue Jays, they need an impacting hitting 3B more than a 1B with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. occupying that position. Returning Guerrero Jr. back to 3B would diminish Toronto’s infield defense, especially with Alonso occupying 1B. The Blue Jays wouldn’t be prudent in tying up their DH spot with Alonso either, not with an aging George Springer needing some reps there with his diminished fielding ability.
C-Daddy
Bregman is definitely a better fit but the Jays pretty desperately need more offense, so I’d be cool with an Alonso signing, especially if Vladdy leaves after this season / is traded.
geofft
Pete Alonso is no Aaron Judge. Judge is a complete hitter with much better command of the strike zone and does not need a HR in order to do damage.
Whyme
Springer hasn’t hit in years putting him at DH is moronic
Basketball geek
With Canadian taxes he’s back to the Mets deal… At this point Boras and Pete knows they messed up, at this point it’s saving face… Even the Jays know they are negotiating against themselves..Angels still have Trout and Rendon big dollars on books, Pete doesn’t move the needle…. Jays are the only team left….Boras has totally alienated the Mets, as a big time Mets fan, I’m exhausted reading the daily updates. The Mets have mentally moved on from Pete, playing the Kids, or figuring it out In season by trade, if need be…. Polar Bears go Alaska and eat salmon, dress warm Pete…..
Richard Alicea
My point exactly, time to move on from this flawed player.
mad1
So daddy warbucks is tapped out. His team would have never advanced to the second round without Pete
raisinsss
Do we need to talk about the era of baseball contracts when too much emphasis was placed on what *already did* happen rather than what would likely happen over the duration of the contract?
stymeedone
Paying for what likely happens over the duration of the contract is the revisionist history for a FA contract that works out. Paying for past performance is revisionist history for one that doesn’t. For every bad contract, there was at least one other team pushing to sign that player.
raisinsss
If only there were some way to examine contracts at the moment they’re signed rather than in hindsight… I’m at a loss here.
And surely it is impossible for multiple teams to make similarly bad decisions thanks to similarly bad process.
Sunday Lasagna
Nimmo got 8/162M and Pete is being offered 3/$68M?
Would love to see the analytics reports that supported these valuations.
…..and if I’m Vientos I want to stay at 3rd if the Mets don’t value RH hitting first basemen much.
slider32
The Mets want Vlady!
geofft
@ Sunday – Nimmo’s contract is the point that nobody is making. I suspect it IS a significant factor in shaping Pete’s demands. That said, get the facts straight: Nimmo’s deal was with a different front office. That FO offered Pete 6/$156 and Pete rejected it.
And let’s face it. Nimmo was overpaid. Should the Mets compound that by making another mistake that only makes things worse?
bbgods
It is exhausting.
just_thinkin
Alonso has a high Chris Davis risk and the Mets are right to be careful here.
Begamin
No? Chris Davis’ fall off was due to the fact that MLB added Adderall, the ADHD medicine he was taking to list of banned substances. Just because they both play 1B and both hit for power does not mean its the same situation. Yall just really be saying anything
foppert3
Wow. That’s something to consider.
Swingandamiss
I was going Anthony Rizzo. Thought he was worth way more than he was. Big market, fan fav. Declining numbers and limited skill set. Better off staying short term. Was a fool to turn down the long term deal he was offered.
Bucket Number Six
Rizzo was offered 5 years, $70 million. That was a low ball offer from Jed Hoyer at the time. Though, Jed was smartly cautious with Kris Bryant and Javy Baez, too. Supposedly, they were close on an extension with Baez and then the pandemic hit.
Rizzo ended up getting $56 million over three years with the Yankees and played in the World Series. I doubt he rebounds, but there’s a slight chance he can come close to that $14 million over the next two years.
Richard Alicea
Alonso is Chris Davis 2.0, he’s got it right. Alonso is a player in decline, so why should the Mets even think about bringing him back. These offers were made just to appease the fan base and make it look as if they tried to bring him back. Fact is Alonso is not worth anything over 15-18mil per year and I would limit it to just 3 years, if that.
Tomas7
I’m beginning to think that my wife may have it right that Pete possibly doesn’t like something in the clubhouse or culture and doesn’t want to be Met again. I’m tired of following this and am ready to move on, though I’d like to see Pete back.
JackStrawb
@Tomas7 It’s just the opposite. The Mets are tired of Alonso’s juvenile antics, humping dugout rails, humping his teammates on the field, teaching children the LFGM chant…
swinging wood
“Ironically, both Soto and Alonso are represented by Boras, though obviously the markets for both sluggers varied greatly.”
I’d go with “coincidentally” here.
scruffmcgruff
I’ts alright Steve just wipe the sweat from your brow with some of that money you have since it’s so exhausting.
Pronklington
Richie Sexson 2.0 is only worth 5/100 max.
Psychguy
Nothing against the player, but there is some satisfacation to be had when Boras over plays his hand. That said, it’s millionaires vs. billionaires so who really gives a bleep.
10centBeerNight
Sometimes it appears many NYM fans didn’t watch the games the last 2 season apart from one post season game vs Milwaukee. Have loved Pete but he isn’t close to the heart of this team. That’s Francisco
Seaver rules
If the Mets don’t resign Pete it would be a shame. You can guarantee there not signing or trading for a corner infielder with pop. I hope Mauricio is ready to play. He has speed, power and a good arm for 3B. A switch hitter that hits a lot of line drives. I’d go with him before Baty. Let’s hope Vientos learns to scoop those bad throws. That was a Pete specialty.
geofft
1) Mauricio seems to have had a setback. The Mets announced two days ago that they do not expect him to be 100% for the start of spring training. is not healthy and ready to play.
Even if he was healthy, declaring in January who you’d go with is a pointless declaration. They’re both talented, and neither of them has shown that he is ready for MLB yet. And they both have one minor league option remaining. What they do in spring will play a big role in who gets the >first< crack at a job. And the reality is that in all likelihood, neither one of them holds onto it for very long and the Mets wind up toggling between the both of them, and a yet-unsigned-veteran brought in as insurance.
JackStrawb
It’s hilarious that Boras leaked ‘Pete scooped more throws than anyone,’ with is not actually a function of much of anything except luck and random chance. and all of a sudden the children were carrying on about how brilliant a ‘scooper’ Pete was.
MrLOLMet
The Metsies had a weak platoon first base situation for years before Pete, it would be a shame to go back to that but Boras will be Boras.
SupremeZeus
Pete doesn’t want to be a Met. Said no to $158M. Said no to $21.05M. Said no to $70M. Avoiding long term high dollar nostalgia signings of one dimensional declining players at a non premium position is what Stearns does. Save those dollars to use for trade deadline acquisitions.
Swingandamiss
Reminds me of Anthony Rizzo. Whole situation.
Wilmer the Thrillmer
Bottom line is the Polar Bear was given bad advise not to take the 7/158 contract offer. He’s a great slugger and a good dude but he’s a one dimensional player and his numbers appear to be slowly trending in the wrong direction.
JackStrawb
Pete’s not a great slugger and he’s in steep decline.
A .459 SLG when it’s your one skill is forgettable.
Best Screenname Ever
Go on Twitter and search ‘blue jays alonso’ where you’ll find that all the blue jays fan accounts have bought into Boras trying to use Toronto for leverage with the Mets. They think Alonso an Max Scherzer are going to sign to play in Canada.
Gwynning
There’s the essential difference between Uncle Stevie and I… I would have been exhausted after writing that Soto check!
YankeesBleacherCreature
Someone tell Pete he needs set up a Venmo account and go paperless.
Acoss1331
Boras’s tactics would have worked if Eppler were still the GM, but he’s dealing with Stearns. Stearns worked with so much less money in Milwaukee and produced so much winning that, he knows he’s got Boras and Pete cornered, he has all the leverage.
Pete wants to be paid as if he were Freddie Freeman and he’s nowhere near that level .
citizen
Mets probably gave Soto whatever he wanted, no so much Mr met Alsonso. Alonso has a better track record than Bregman with not so much decline. I’d blame mr moneyball for not wanting to hand out contracts to these power hitters anymore. They think they are going to decline. Some do, freeman, for example hasnt. Alonso should Sign with the Mariners or brewers if the mets arent interested.
Richard Alicea
That’s the problem, the rest of the league knows that Alonso is not worth anything north of 18mil AAV, he’s flawed a HR or bust player and totally inconsistent offensively, let alone a poor defender.
andyger63
The Yankees should sign Alonso immediately! That would serve that greedy pig Cohen right for stealing Soto from us.
Swingandamiss
Mets need to let him walk. More often than not Boras has teams bidding against themselves and that could be the case here. He’s not worth more than 22/year. If he signs with Toronto, so be it. If he played outside of New York, he’d be Carlos Santana.
Joe It All
Sometimes you have to learn to let a fan favorite go. It almost seems obvious that Cohen and Stearns don’t want to give Pete Alonso a multi year contract because they’re enamored with the possibility of signing Vlad next year.
At this point the only way you’re going to see Alonso in a Mets uniform would be a one year deal with a high aav. If Alonso is confident in himself and can put up the numbers to show that he still has it then he could possibly get a bigger contract next year even with another year of age since only one team will be able to sign Guerrero. I don’t see him doing that though because he is already having a hard enough time to secure more than 3 years right now.
Redwolves3
Alonso may want to question whether or not Boras is leading him down the road of no return with the Mets
Cohen questioning how the negotiations are going with Alonso & saying there’s possibility Mets may have to go with players they have. Cohen’s comments certainly doesn’t sound like Alonso will be a Mets in 2026
Alonso (Boras) may have boxed themselves into a corner
Señor Herps
Richest owner in baseball to afraid to spend?
BCleveland3381
You don’t think he’s spent?
JackStrawb
@Senor Herps The richest owner in baseball doesn’t want to bother with Alonso. He adds nothing to the Mets’ 2025 projection while costing them $23m plus a year.
Redwolves3
FA (Alonso & Boras) finding out just bc Cohen has plenty of $$$ doesn’t mean he’s foolish & spend beyond what he believes is a fair value
Boras overstating Alonso’s value & Cohen doesn’t agree
Boras, Alonso & Cohen at a standstill
lapmando
The issue for me, as a fan of the team, is there is no one in the lineup to protect Soto. Vientos, McNeil, Marte don’t exactly strike fear. Nimo either. So Soto’s going to have down year, the team won’t be as good as last year and the fans will go nuts. They blew it by not signing one of the other power hitting 1st baseman. In reality, people should be angry with Pete for hamstring the Mets from signing a player with reasonable contract demands
MetsSchmets
lapmodo
Thats half-baked man.
Vientos hit 27 bombs in 413 ABs, in 600 ABs he could be a 40-45 home run guy. In the playoffs he was even better hitting .327 with 5 HRs and 14 RBIs so he’s very scary for pitchers. Not sure what you’re referring to with Vientos.
Nimmo had plantar fasciitis and possible concussion from a headshot HBP so there’s every reason to expect he’ll return to being over 130wRC+ player which he’s been every year since his 2nd.
Also you’re assuming none of the youth breaks out but look what Vientos did. I’m still high on Baty, guy only has 600ABs and he’s been a star at every level except MLB so I think he’s going to put it together. There’s many younger guys too, who knows what the line up looks like in July.
raisinsss
Alvarez is my pick for this year.
lapmando
I get your point. However in baseball, you can’t assume anything. To your credit, you are looking at the brightest side of things. As a realist, I could also assume Vientos blows out a knee and alverez breaks two fingers and Nimmo is hobbled half the year.
I love Pete. I want him to be a forever met. Hell, he played 162 last year!! But he hit .214 and .220 the year before. He has stymied the organization. I’m getting more angry with him at this point. Walker would have looked good in orange and blue. Others too.
Miken31
If he’s looking at the brightest side of things, aren’t you looking at the absolute worst scenarios? To say Soto is going to have a down year, has Soto had great protection around him every single year of his career? But he always seems to figure it out regardless. That’s what hitters do. Besides the Mets project to have a very solid lineup, regardless of whether certain people perceive it that way or not.
lapmando
Yes, worse case scenario…that’s in a Mets fan dna. It’s nice to be wrong!!
Miken31
LOL fair enough. I am a Mets fan, but I’m not the type who always expects the other shoe to drop. I also don’t blindly think that things will be good just because I’m a fan either. I try to be as objective as possible, but that’s not always easy.
Chris Sabo Rec Specs
Yeah, it’s crazy that the negotiation that you offered $70M to was tougher than the one you offered $765M to. Imagine that.
westcasey
Reading Cohen comments, he referred to negotiations ,then commented about the Boras proposals being so one-sided. I can imagine.Boras after new AV high, signing bonus, opt-out every year and wants team/owner to hold all the liability.Mets will wait a year for Guerrero
¡Killer Klowns From Outer Space!
Poor guys.
PrincessYuki
I’m not a Mets fan however after that home run in the NL Wild Card it’d feel weird seeing Alonso in another uniform.
Larry D.
Cohen didn’t like the structure of the deal proposed by Boros, which smells Bellinger-like (3 yr, player option after year one, player option after year two). So a solid first year by Alonso and it’s a one year deal. Doesn’t seem like much risk for the team, unless they don’t like their chances in next year’s free agency.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Of course it’s a risk for the Mets – if Alonso does well in Year 1 he walks. If he does poorly he stays. Mets bear the risk, asymmetrically. Now if Pete was a 5ish WAR player who has not yet hit the age of decline (say 26) then an opt out clause would not favor the player.
Doug
They give Soto $765 million, but won’t give a fan favorite who would protect their investment more than $76.5. Good luck with Vientos and Baty as his Soto’s protection in the lineup!
raisinsss
1. yup
2. ‘protection’ is a myth
3. however, $76.5 over three years is actually pretty close to his market rate. Great work.
4. you do not know mark vientos and your ignorance has led you to think he is not good
YankeesBleacherCreature
I think “lineup protection is a myth” is over-simplified because context matters. As it stands now, Soto will get pitched around and also receive IBB. He may walk over 165 times next season. He’s not a fast baserunner nor a stolen base threat. If this happens, it may be difficult for him to match last year’s WAR total.
Miken31
But why is this? The Mets have a solid lineup with several good hitters in it. Plus, there’s every chance still that Alonso gets re-signed.
realist101
@Bleacher –
Vientos was a somewhat better hitter than Alonso in 2024 (going by wRC+), and Alonso’s ZiPS projection for 2025 is somewhat better than Vientos.
I don’t see any clear answer that one or the other of them will be a significantly better hitter behind Soto.
And a good portion of the walks that you’re worried about are still a net positive for the team at bat.
dugmet
You are making assumptions about the structure.
Miken31
Hey Doug, does Francisco Lindor not count? What about Brandon Nimmo? But yeah, let’s bring up Brett Baty, a guy who probably isn’t going to end up playing.And by the way, I still think they’re going to re-sign Alonso.
raisinsss
MVP runner up?
Chump
El Kabong
Brandon Nimmo? You mean the soon-to-be 32-year-old with the plantar fasciitis problem and an OPS+ of 68 in the second half of 2024. You have an interesting perspective on what constitutes a “good hitter.”
Miken31
So you take the second half of the year in which Nimmo was injured and state that that’s who he is as a player. Yeah good evidence there.
raisinsss
Yeah that seems to be what’s happening.
Manaeas second half that got him on a cy young ballot is a mirage.
Nimmo’s is who he is forever
El Kabong
Nimmo still has the same chronic injury — an injury that tends to flare up when running, jumping, and standing in one place for a long time. You know, baseball outfielder stuff.
Miken31
Except a lot of athletes have this and find a way to manage it. So let’s not act like his career is over at 32, doc.
El Kabong
You might want to research your statement.
Miken31
So you’re saying professional athletes get that injury and don ‘t find ways to manage it? Is that what you’re saying?
El Kabong
Funny, I don’t see where I said that. However, I said it’s a chronic injury that can flare up when running, jumping, or standing in one place for a long time. It’ll be interesting to see how many games Nimmo plays in 2025. It’s unlikely he spends much time in CF, if any.
Miken31
Well, you can just say what you want to without being cryptic, like you did here as opposed to your last post. He doesn’t play centerfield any longer anyway. He moved to left field last year. I’m certain it’s something he’ll have to manage going forward and it might limit him at times. I expect him to still be a productive player going forward.
pando8888
Good luck to Soto in right field at Citifield!
sTpGoTexans
I say kudos to Cohen. Boras seems to think all of his clients should get what they want, not what they deserve and then he starts whining when teams start walking away to make other arrangements.
I wish MLB could say no more opt-outs (unless they are mutual (with both sides having an option to opt-out) and no more deferrals.
west212
The Mets are worse off now than the beginning of the offseason. What a failure!
Richard Alicea
No they are not, fact is they are better positioned now with young talent ready to contribute.
geofft
They didn’t have Alonso at the beginning of the off season, and they don’t have him now. So how, exactly, are they worse off? And they’ve added players.
dpsmith22
funny, Cohen has been throwing money around like pencil shavings and NOW he complains about the negotiations? comical
raisinsss
are you a troll bot?
highflyballintorightfield
Unless Boras has been actually unprofessional in his behavior, Cohen’s reaction seems overwrought. Doesn’t sound like much more happening than the expected offer-counteroffer stuff. If the counteroffer is not acceptable just say No, no need to take it personally.
raisinsss
He hasn’t accused him of being unprofessional, merely that he felt the offers presented were rather one-sided. I’m sure each side feels the same way, and I’m also sure that he’d have taken any significantly higher offers already were there any to be had.
Mentioned above, this is probably to placate the homer, ‘at any cost’ crowd and is also probably somewhat true.
We know prior (significantly higher) offers that he’s turned down. We know his current expectations. And we also know what players like him tend to look like when they decline, and that Stearns runs an analytics-driven ship.
Captainmike1
I personally think Scott borass has done so much to ruin professional sports
That is my opinion
You can have your opinion
But that is my opinion
kylegocougs
Stupid take
El Kabong
Opinions need to be based on something. What is the basis for your belief that Boras has ruined professional sports? If pro sports are ruined, as you say, how do you explain players being paid more than ever before (by billionaire owners who are turning a nice profit)?
mahalkita
If you love him let him go
sergefunction
So many Metsies think Steve Cohen is completely unaware of the Alonso Negotiations, as if he plays second fiddle to a team employee. Hilarious.
He’s directly telling you the whole thing is “exhausting” him yet fans hang on to the fantasy story that their Santa Claus owner is somehow the duped victim of his cheapskate GM.
Like every owner of just about everything everywhere, Steve Cohen pulls every single string and has repeatedly decided this player isn’t worth his getting bullied.
dugmet
What?!
El Kabong
Steve Cohen wants to build a casino on the grounds of Citi Field. Baseball is secondary to him. He’ll say and do whatever is necessary to win the favor of local lawmakers.
Sadface
Cohen should wait until the start of spring training and if Alonso is still not signed, offer him a one year 5 million dollar contract with incentives which could get him as much as 15 million a year. If Alonso rejects the offer, let me go.
BigA 3
Halos sign Pete for 4 years at 100 mil and move Schanuel to left field while trading ward for pitching.
padam
Mets offer was fair for his production. Time to move on.
DarrenDreifortsContract
If you give 700 plus million to one player. Obviously that means you’re all in. So you might as well give Alonso what he wants.
dugmet
With that mindset, I will never hire you bc you will cost my company millions in bad purchase agreements.
geofft
Short-sighted analysis. It ignores the fact that the $765 million was for FIFTEEN years. Pete reportedly wanted was 8/$200M. Should the Mets have given him that? At what point does that spending on a declining player limit limits their ability to fill needs that arise in subsequent years?
Boras now wants a record-setting $31.1M AAV for a flawed player. Should the Mets give him that? What happens when the next star-caliber, yet flawed player asks for a record deal? Do they just keep handing those out?
WillisVonGillis
Seems inevitable that he ends up taking a 1 yr deal and trying this again next off-season.
Richard Alicea
He can try that but the Mets will stay clear away from him regardless of his performance in 2025.
bcjd
I’m started to get the sense that Boras has created a lot of bad feeling with owners and GMs, and that those bad feelings are starting to impact negotiations for his mid-tier clients. It seems like teams don’t trust him or his team, so they make an offer and stick with it, instead of negotiating.
mp2891
Boras deserves criticism for trying to get an above market deal for every client. Not every client deserves an above market deal. In Alonso’s case, he is worth about what Walker got. To a team other than the Mets, he should be worth less than 3/$60MM because he’s the worse player. To the Mets, maybe he’s worth more than 3/$60MM because he’s a fan favorite. It seems as though Boras/Alonso are asking for a lot more than 3/$60MM though.
Tony Cunningham
“Ironically, both Soto and Alonso are represented by Boras, though obviously the markets for both sluggers varied greatly.”
No irony at all. With Boras, you can expect nothing less than a maximal effort to squeeze every penny or advantage in any contract negotiation. It would be irony if Alonso had an agent usually known to be a pushover.
Rantucky
Pete’s a big strong guy didn’t y’all hear? Pete’s a big strong (fat) guy who got thrown to the ground by Stubby Clapp. Pay that man his money!
thebare54
Boris the pig has hurt the game, not all players get deals that help there new teams. .Time for Boris to take his style of Free agency out to the dry cleaners.A third of his clients end up feeling rich but regretting those Contracts. The end of there career. If your RICH does it matter. I say yes the game was fun now who can afford to go to more than a game a year ?.
Richard Alicea
The offer made to Pete was generous for a flawed player. Pete Alonso does not make the Mets better, lets make that clear. He’s an inconsistent hitter who strikes out regularly swinging at balls 2-3 feet off the plate. He has left countless of RISP when he was needed. He’s a poor defender who’s body shape does not allow him to make plays at first base. A one dimensional player seeking compensation as if he’s a 4-5 tool player. The Mets are looking to compete by building a roster with players that move the needle, Pete clearly doesn’t do that, fact is he will make the Mets worse if signed. Emotions aside, not signing Pete makes so much sense in building a sustainable winner in Queens.
THEY LIVE!!!
Just sign Pete for Pete’s Sake & get it done now‼️
آلي مكبيل_.._.بيتزا بيبيروني آشتون كوتشر
To combat exhaustion Steve needs to prioritize sleep, hydration, healthy eating, and exercise. Take breaks, practice mindfulness, unplug, and engage in restorative activities. Set boundaries to manage stress, and consult a doctor if fatigue persists. Small steps like power naps or short walks can also boost energy.
snowyphile1
Boras is a nuisance.