Alex Bregman remains unsigned with less than a month until pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training. Bregman won’t be returning to the Astros after rejecting a reported six-year, $156MM offer that led Houston to pivot to an Isaac Paredes/Christian Walker corner infield tandem.
Early in the offseason, it seemed Bregman and his representation at the Boras Corporation were seeking to eclipse the $200MM mark. Whether that’s still the goal isn’t clear, though it stands to reason that some teams are hopeful he could move off a lofty ask as he lingers on the open market.
To that end, Bruce Levine of 670 The Score writes that the Cubs recently had “casual” conversations with Boras about Bregman. Levine suggests that the Cubs aren’t interested in offering a long-term deal. It seems they’re on the periphery of the market in case the two-time All-Star considers a shorter term with opt-out clauses. There’s nothing to suggest Bregman is currently willing to do so, however.
Chicago traded Paredes as the centerpiece of the Kyle Tucker blockbuster. Top prospect Matt Shaw is the favorite for the third base job. Shaw combined for a huge .284/.379/.488 slash with 21 homers and 31 stolen bases between Double-A and Triple-A last season. Giving him the starting job would be justifiable, but there’s no guarantee that even a prospect of Shaw’s caliber hits the ground running against big league pitching. The Cubs don’t really have a capable fallback in case Shaw falters. Vidal Bruján, Luis Vázquez and Rule 5 pick Gage Workman are the backup infielders on the 40-man roster.
Bregman would provide a much higher floor. He popped 26 homers with a .260/.315/.453 line in his final season in Houston. Bregman remained an All-Star caliber player despite taking dramatically fewer walks than he had in his previous six seasons. He’s entering his age-31 season, so while it’s understandable if teams are reluctant to commit six or seven years, Bregman shouldn’t be in danger of any kind of immediate drop-off.
The Cubs have sat out the top of the market for consecutive offseasons. They haven’t made a nine-figure investment since committing $177MM to Dansby Swanson over the 2022-23 winter. Chicago was never a factor on Juan Soto, nor did they seemingly have any interest in playing at the top of the starting pitching market. They’ve been loosely linked to Jack Flaherty, though it appears they’re similarly waiting on the fringe of the market in case a buy-low opportunity presents itself. The Cubs have roughly $198MM in luxury tax commitments, according to the RosterResource calculations, putting them more than $40MM shy of the base threshold.
Id like to see Seattle at around 3/80 if he’s going short term but I don’t think Seattle would even commit that.
Astros fans would be so angry seeing bregman in blue
*excuse me dodger blue*
so would dodgers fans
If Bregman played well and helped the Dodgers win their fans will get over it quickly.
Include shorting the LF fence by 15 feet.
And fixing that damned batter’s eye!
Do not get me started on the batters eye. It’s literally THE reason no one hits here.
The fence at T-Mobile park is only 8 feet across the outfield.
Articles I read indicate Boston is looking at Bregman like they did JDM in 18. They don’t see anyone paying him for five or more years and are waiting him and Boras’ out to come down. If accurate, they will have to decide between a shorter deal with an opt out or sign in Boston. Specifics of a Sox potential offer weren’t mentioned but I’m thinking they will go five for $130m
Is Bregman the guy that Cora and Sam Kennedy wanted but Breslow didn’t?
I doubt Bregman will ever get the $156M over 6 years – – that he turned down from the Astros. Ha ha, Bregman and Boras both deserve the wake up call. Bregman is an OK player that greatly benefited from the Astros cozy LF confines.
the astros have insider knowledge of bregman’s baseline when he doesn’t know what pitch is coming so it’s likely the offer was fair
I don’t think Bregman, or any hitter, would take a pillow contract in Seattle. You’d go somewhere you could put up some numbers.
Think your right it would be most likely a pitcher to Seattle as that park is hard to hit in
James Paxton did and I think most pitchers would be thrilled with the chance, but yeah hitters wouldn’t see it as ideal. Mitch Garver’s 2-year deal last year wasn’t NOT a pillow contract. AJ Pollock did the year before. And the year before that, they tried to sign Carlos Santana on a 1-year pillow contract, but he declined and signed with KC, and SEA ended up trading for him mid-season.
But don’t need to look further than Teoscar to see why hitters are reluctant to sign pillow contracts with SEA if they have any other options. I think the last time before the names above was Raul Ibanez in 2012. And Beltre needed the pillow contract AFTER SEA to restablish his value, and he just went bonkers once he got out of SEA.
Exactly one person has consistently hit there since their Ichiro/A-Rod/Griffey/Edgar days, Nelson Cruz (though Julio should add to that, Raleigh may as well).. But Nelly signed his pillow contract with the O’s, that’s how he got signed by the Mariners in the first place.
Just look at the home/road splits.
Speaking of home/road splits, in general, does Seattle struggle with tweaking roster because if this? Sounds like they want to get that league level hitter via trading Castillo. But, gulp, his era is 1+ run higher on the road. Red flag?!
His splits against hitters were even more pronounced. Lefties hit .275/.336/.509 in 346 PA against him. (.205/.253/.323 vs. RHB in 373 PA)
The park probably isn’t as big of a red flag as him turning every LH batter, which is roughly half the batters he pitches to, into Corey Seager.
Why would he accept “around” 3/80 after turning down 6/156…i mean if you double 3/80 thats 6/160…if he was intersted in that he would have stayed in hou..or teams like boston or detroit would line up to give him that lol
Because that was then, this is now.
Exactly right
@deweybelongsinthehall
Am I to assume you are referencing the late 1980’s Monkees’ song? Great tour btw!
Because he and Boras have misread the market.
Also correct
You can only accept what’s out there. I think it will be a lot more than $80M/3, but I seriously doubt Boston will offer anything close to $156M.
A 3/80 would probably have something similar to s10mil signing bonus, 25/25/20 with opt outs after 1 and 2. So if he opted out it would be a 1/35 and if he has a bad year he has security.
Yeah I don’t see that. He’ll be 33 back in FA, and 34 when the season starts. If you add an opt out at year one, then maybe, but I don’t see it
I think your right a 3 years deal with an opt out every year;
I’ve heard the Tigers have offered 3/90 and an opt out each year
Did your mom tell you that?
The Tigers should look at the shorter term deal higher annual average for sure. 7 years should be a non starter.
Tigers beat writer
I think Bregman wants more years. Probably the hold up.
I think the issue is Boras and Bregman were expecting a deal similar to the ones Rendon (7/$245) or Arenado (8/$260) signed but ignored the facts that both those players were younger than Bregman when they signed them (Rendon only a year younger but Arenado was 3 years younger) and that neither of those contracts has aged well for their respective teams. It’s that second factor that is the biggest one here. Teams are growing tired of being burned by longer term expensive contracts for players in their 30s.
Weird fit, though I guess they could then flip Shaw or Hoerner for a SP (Mariners fans wake up …)
They’re not gonna flip Shaw after trading Cam Smith for 1 year and zero chance of re-signing Tucker. There was already a very slim chance of the Cubs re-signing Tucker before they whiffed on 2.5mil. That would be dumb. Nico might not even be 100% by spring training. So if Jed pulls Bregman somehow it’ll be like Bellingers deal 3 years with 2 opt outs. He’ll opt in and then the cubs will do the same bs they did with Bellinger and trade Bregman.
Hard pass for me on Bregman. He isn’t as good without the trash can banging. Something he thoroughly denied for weeks until finally admiting him and all his teammates all regretted their actions.
He’s been plenty good since the trash. He and Tucker would be the Cubs best hitters.
Take all his stats away from 2017 and 2018. Hed been good but who really knows when the Astros fully stopped cheating. His numbers for those years are inflated. Not so much 2017 but 2018 his numbers went up a lot.
Seiya Suzuki would still be their 2nd best hitter if the cubs signed Bregman on a short term deal. Still a hard pass for me .
They did it for a few weeks in 2018. His best season was 2019. 2017 was his first full season. Learn the facts.
None of what you just wrote are empirical facts. In fact, it’s just plain wrong and made up #TrustMeBro bs.
To prove you’re FOS, I’ll provide EVIDENCE.. E.g. signstealingscandal.com tracked every pitch in 2017 and the cheating was pervasive all year long in 2017.
So fact is, you don’t know what you’re talking about whatsoever.
Learn the definition of the word “Facts.”
Never said they didn’t do it in 2017. So yes what I said was 100% fact. They did it a few weeks into 2018.
what you said is not 100% fact
the astros cheated all the way through 2019, which is why altuve made sure the team didnt rip off his shirt on the chapman walkofff – they just merely figured out how to cheat better after a few weeks of 2018
just because some people are super naive and gullible doesn’t mean the rest of us are
No bozo, your words are right above, you claimed it was only a few weeks in 2018, then even went so far as to reference that 2017 was his first full year with nary a mention that he was cheating that entire year.
Never mind that they were also doing it by their own admission the latter part of 2016, which though it wasn’t a “full” year, it was enough of a year to exhaust his rookie eligibility.
Also by their own admission, they stopped at “some point” in 2018, they never said a few weeks, and if it was in fact a few weeks, they would’ve been tripping over themselves to say so. Rather, their CLAIM, which is unsubstantiated and almost certainly not as bad as the truth, is that they stopped on their own accord because it wasn’t effective anymore. Which if you’ve ever played baseball, you’d know is complete nonsense. Knowing what pitch is coming is ALWAYS going to be more effective than not knowing what pitch is coming.
They also, again by their own admission, stopped using the trash can banging with a bat or a theragun, and switched to another method in 2018. They never said what, they denied it was the buzzers, but Altuve showed us that it was something under the shirt.
So the truth is, you didn’t use any facts, you tried to come in and be a know-it-all but ended up being an imperious know-it-none.
Ofc, why would you ever admit that you weren’t 100% accurate about something? You’re a cheater, and a cheater apologist, and a liar. And we know that because of your posts, right here, right above. So with no due respect, I don’t GAF what you claim about anything. I don’t listen to liars. Especially ones that double down on their lie and can’t admit a mistake when they make one.
Agreed with the Cubs not flipping Shaw and at this point I doubt they seriously consider moving him off of 3rd even for 1 season. They wouldn’t have traded Paredes AND Smith without a 3B solution in place and that’s Shaw. They also have Triantos, whom the org loves, now at AAA, who’s better positioned for 2B. More impactful tho is the amount Bregman is seeking would put the Cubs on razor’s edge of exceeding the luxury threshold for the 2nd straight season. Finally the Cubs would need to surrender their 2nd and 5th round picks AND $1million in Int’l pool funds. In summary, not the Cubs.
It’d be Nico being traded
They should’ve traded Nico if they kept paredes but now the cubs can’t afford to lose him unless they get another infielder
That would be Shaw and Hoerner.
Would be something if Matt Chapman out earns Bregman this offseason. Would not have anticipated that.
Bregman wanted ridiculous money at the start of free agency. I had read reports he wanted 300 million. Chapman > Bregman.
Where did you see reports of that?
Besides every player asks for a gazillion and every team asks for a dollar at the start of negotiations
Bregman was after 200 mill, not 300
nytimes.com/athletic/5927788/2024/11/18/blue-jays-…
This is Rosenthal predicting Bregman looking for deal similar to Machado. 11/350. So I may have misspoke that Bregman himself wanted it.
Wow…..11 over 350? For what looks like an aging power hitter with tanking peripherals. A lot of these young players would be wise to take the extensions early. Bregman smells like Kris Bryant to me. Pay guys for 2016 and you’re in trouble on 2026
Crazy. Even if he was asking for 200 like mentioned above, that’s way too much. Kris Bryant is a good comparison. If I remember correctly his was 6-7/180-ish.
This is Rosenthal predicting Bregman looking for
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This is/was pure click-bait by Rosenthal.
Could be. It was sorta buried in the article, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was click bait.
Bregman has more of a career than Bryant due to the latter’s back issues. But it’s super easy to give passes to worn out phenoms too. Nothing wrong with each career. Both have rings. But this isn’t 1985. You don’t have to pay for those old rings…not at that price.
Agreed. Bregman has stayed healthy, he’s just had some “down years” in comparison to his huge 2019. I would be interested to see Bregman in Detroit.
All this said. Its not 0% that he re-establishes himself. But he’s not the gamble long term. If I were a team with playoff potential and needed a 3B for a season or two…yeah absolutely. At base he’s solid enough. But you’re wrapped up in his contract past your window if you go too long
Absolutely. He’s still well above average for 3B. But I agree. Teams have seen how some of these longer term deals have worked out and don’t want to be stuck with 30+ million per year.
I partly wonder if there’s some hangup over potential clubhouse issues becusse of the sign stealing scandal. I’d guess there’s a few teams who realize adding him to their clubhouse would be a weird situation for awhile.
Players TYPICALLY have eachothers backs in public situations. In this case it was unusual for so many players to actually publicly state they thought being banned was just punishment. Bregman got off with nothing for essentially fixing some major games. When you can sit on a fastball…that’s what that is. And it damages the livelihood of others who aren’t cheating in such a broad open way.
Personally, to me it seems like we have Players on the permanently ineligible list who’ve done less. And then for Manfred to basically let it go. I could care less if Bregman makes another dollar in the game. It’s not MY game though…so he’s a risky contract with lingering issues.
Shark jump moment for MLB integrity.
Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s part of it. There have been a few guys who are on that list from that scandal, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Bregman is.
Bauer is another example of that. He’s persona non grata with Manfred and was found not guilty on his charges. Regardless of what people think of him, he was arguably in the prime of his career.
I dont bring Bauer up much. Because I’ve been in and around the game and have had it told to me by two players who to my knowledge don’t know eachother that Bauer has had other issues.
It’s like anything. People on the outside will be able to make any statements they wish. MLB and teams will keep silent….even if they know information that would be much more damaging to Bauer. But that’s the high road. And you dont get the high road as MLB after so much lack of integrity themselves. People have every right to question MLB because of that.
But I’ll say this. When multiple players tell you a guy is a freak…listen. While we’re not in the days of players coming to town like invading Vikings….they’re still young guys who like a good time.
Bauer is so truly narcissistic he STILL gets public. He has to know what he COULD be hammered with.
As far as the not-guiltt thing. He was trapped by a woman who KNEW his rep. He’s a combination of narcissistic, arrogant, and dumb. So much so that his Cy Young arm wasn’t worth the cost.
And that’s not getting to his publicly calling out the game.
Yeah, I get the “me too” environment can be just as flawed as anything. But that doesn’t mean you back the wrong horse. MLB, players, and teams haven’t spoken really. But take the weight of the silence when a guy like Bauer is make or break for a playoff spot and you hear crickets. That’s not MLB teams conspiring. When an a***ole walks in a room of 30 people. They don’t need others to see that for themselves.
All valid points. I don’t have the level of inside knowledge, I’m only going off what I’ve read and seen.
Either way, I’m sure there are many reasons why Bauer is a free agent, not just his publicized case.
There’s also the court of public opinion, and while just about any team would get hammered for bringing on Bauer, right or wrong, the Dodgers are one of the teams that would take an especially rough beating, would face boycotts, and have their name consistently in the media in a way they don’t want.
IDK the ins and outs, I know that Bauer liked the role of being a disruptor and challenging tradition, which in and of itself is a formidable foe in a game that prides itself on its long and storied tradition, even when the challenger is right. Kind of a loose parallel to the whole Moneyball theme.
So even if Bauer was an angel in the locker room, I think it’d be REALLY hard to bring him on. I guess maybe a team like the Rockies might get away with it as they don’t try to win so much as parade around some recognizable names and be competitive enough at home. But really I can’t see any other team that Bauer wouldn’t cause more problems than he’s worth, even if he’s not any sort of clubhouse cancer.
If he’s also a clubhouse cancer, well… I supposed we’d see a Cy Young arm in the prime of his career sitting at home waiting for a call that never comes.
Maybe that’d change if Bauer came out and apologized and played the “Turn a new leaf” angle where the team can play the role of redeemer giving a person who’s learned his lesson a second chance, but that doesn’t seem very likely with a guy who is convinced he’s right and everyone else is wrong.
I must say though, when it came to sticky stuff, well, Bauer WAS right, and everyone else WAS wrong, and I hope that isn’t playing into it too much. Say what you want, but it was weird that Mike Fiers had all of one suitor in 2021, and zero in 2022, seeing as how his last real season to evaluate him on was 2019 (Covid and injury) and he was worth a couple wins over 185 innings that included his second no-hitter. I’d understand a minor league contract considering his age, injury, and peripherals, but having to settle for the Mexican League seemed… A bit much. So perhaps there was some of that, idk how to describe it, scab aura, if you will. Either way, if I was a GM, I think there’s enough there for me to spend about as much time considering Bauer as I spent typing this out before I’d move on, and that’s without considering a disgruntled clubhouse. And I’m a fan of outspoken people that challenge the system, where as most people aren’t, so….
Dodgerbleu- Baseball has a long history of disruptors…they usually get another chance and quickly. Jim Bouton outed secrets in “Ball Four”…he kept on going.
Aloha folks, I sure hope the FO does not sign Bregman. After all the capital traded away for 1 year of Tucker. Please let Shaw have an opportunity like PCA. We’ll see. In the meantime Jed will probably sign more pitching reclamation projects! Gotta spend that savings from trading Cody! Smh. Mahalo!
Hard pass on Bregman, rather see Shaw and Triantos be given a shot at the 3B job.
Cubs fans should be much more upset with an organization at one of the highest team values in MLB thatd unwilling to play in their market. They act midmarket. They’ve missed playoffs because they didn’t want to go large at all nearly ever. Cubs…Wrigley…should be an easy enough sell.
I think Vlad Guerrero Jr looks like a Cub. I suspicion that’s the big push
Bregman is going to end up at 2 years and around $60 million with an opt-out after this season. We are too late into the offseason for him, and Pete Alonso for that matter, to score big money mega deals as neither are young, “generational” talents like Harper and Machado was at this time in 2019
Cody and Jordan did quite well last spring
No they didn’t because neither one got what they were asking for (not even close) when free agency began.
They got a lot more than they deserved so I say they did quite well for the performance they gave to the team that signed them
So my statement is CORRECT
The performance is after the fact and both were likely impacted by a lack of spring training. You are looking at it from hindsight. Bregman could get his $300 million dollar deal in late march and hit .220 with 15 Home Runs just as any other player could/would struggle signing so late
They didn’t perform well. They just got paid. Teams are noting both of these facts.
Machado was 26 and signed for 10y-300m. 4 years later at 30 years old Machado signed a new 11y-350m deal.
I’m sure boras and bregman are using that as a comp but he doesn’t have the pull Machado did or does. Also Machado was coming off a monster season and threatened to opt out. In addition to being peak Peter Seidler spending days. Who also loved Machado and was never letting him become a free agent.
4 years later at 30 years old Machado signed a new 11y-350m deal.
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You can’t compare any player to what SD does. They were probably over market by $100M for Bogaerts & Machado.
You can that about a number of teams and contracts. Boras is definitely going to use those comps
He can use them, but other GMs will have a chuckle. There is a good chance that Bregman gets half of what Machado got in total.
Machado is far better offensively and defensively than Bregman. He’s been playing 4 years longer too. Hard to have a fair comparison. I would take 35 year old Machado over 30 year old Bregman. If they were 5 years apart.
MAchado has a career OPS+ of 125 while Bregman is at 132. That’s a material difference. And Machado was a superior defensive player, but not recently.
No comp is perfect, but I will still be a bit surprised if Bregman gets even half of what Machado got.
imagine what machado’s career numbers would look like if he knew what pitches were coming for 2 seasons
30M for 25 hr and a .315 obp…good gracious.
I understand why he isn’t getting offers of like 6-10 years at basically any AAV, but I am genuinely surprised we haven’t heard of him getting any 3-6 year offers at the $30-$33M per AAV- the Astros offer that Bregman turned down and was apparently offended by, notwithstanding.
I feel like the Astros ultimately offered him market value and he couldn’t handle the truth.
Same for Pete Alonso. I have zero care in the world for ego driven players who can’t live on $156 or $158 million. Go sign somewhere else Pete. Educated Mets fans know a long contract is a bad idea. Goodbye Pete.
No player who turns down a QO is hoping for a fair contract. They want the contract where the other 29 teams say, nope! Too much for me!
The difference between 3 and 6 years is HUGE for a guy like Bregman
Typical disgusting greed from Boras and crew
Not greed. Its maximizing your clients earning potential. Thats the job of the agent. But dure, sometimes it doesnt pan out as the agent/plater hope.
He was maxing his earning potential sitting on trash can fastballs too. Call me Captain Lackofsympathy.
Boras is doing his job. The players are greedy. There. Hopefully fixed that for you.
bregman is made for fenway but devers says he won’t leave third base and i assume they’re saving second best for campbell. multiple games of chicken going on
Devers is an employee he doesn’t get to say where he plays. Skip does when he posts the lineup card.
You’ obviously have no management experience. And, most, certainly, have never managed $30 million prima donnas who you can’t fire.
Oh boy I have!! (no not 30$)
But those are the types you try to talk into transferring for their “development” so more upper management eyes can get on them and see their “exceeds expectations” body of work…..
Tty being a dispatcher for food service truckers in NYC…..
Talk about prima donnas!
L o l
Any player who is NOT a superstar player, deserves whatever misfortune comes their way when they select Scott Boras as their agent!
The Astros offer was fair on paper, and in line with the market @ $26mil/year. By the numbers, Bregman is the same value as Adames except a couple years older and SS the top position. Guessing some of the big markets don’t want to overpay, but he will have to. Sox, Mets and Yanks all have the position open and cash to spend on a 3B. Bregman has rings and the postseason track record that takes his market higher.
Replacement level for SS is WAYYY higher than replacement level at 3B and has been for nearly a decade. The gap might just be the biggest in history right now. Witt, Gunnar, and Lindor were all better than the best 3B, Jose Ramirez, then it’s more superstar SS like Elly, Adames, and Seager. Then the next tier is dominated by SS like Trea Turner, Tovar, Masyn Winn, O’Neil Cruz, Neto, Volpe, Swanson, Abrams, etc..
SS >>>>>>>>>> 3B
We are talking millions here. How much do you need in order to be comfortable? Houston made him a generous offer in my opinion. He passed up the offer, and I really can’t grasp why he would do that? We’re not talking 50, 75 or 100 million here. We’re talking about 156 million to play for a good team, a place where he’s found success and has been supported by a fan base. Someone said that he was asking for $200 million. From the appearance of progress it looks more like he’s demanding it. Ridiculous and he’s not the only one behaving in this manner.
Completely agree. Players are often delusional about their capabilities, the erosion in their skills, and how much they are truly worth. If the Astros offered what they did and Bregman turned them down, he’s nuts. But even nuttier will be any team willing to pay him more. Glad it won’t be my team.
Do you think perhaps Houston trading away Tucker is what sealed the deal with Bregman not wanting to return, and not necessarily the money? Maybe Bregman thought without Tucker there that the competitive window is closing and it would be the best for him to move on to greener pastures.
Getting two 3B for Tucker pretty much closed the door on Bregman re-signing. He’ll probably end up on the Dodgers with 98% of a 300mil dollar contract being deferred. 10/300. Manfred won’t have the cajones to veto the deal. Rumor has it. He lost them similarly to the scene from Fargo in a wood chipper.
Good old Chippy Manfred
Manfred won’t have the cajones to veto the deal.
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If the player and the team agree to it, and it falls within the CBA, why and how would Manfred veto it?
That’s insane.
He vetoed a trade for a rod to go to Boston. A day later he approved a trade for him to go to the Yankees. So it’s not completely insane to think he wouldn’t veto another 300 mil dollar deal for the Dodgers.
It’s not about being “comfortable” he wants it to be the last contract he signs so of course he wants every dollar he can get. When any of us are top 15 in the world at our jobs (3B not all MLB) we would want to maximize our earning too. Alas none of us are and bemoan them for wanting top dollar.
They’d rather the billionaire owners pocket the profits than invest their profits into the on-field product.
So strange to focus on the guy who represents the working class, who is following the advice of a professional agent, rather than the billionaires who insist on profits increasing year-over-year and public tax dollars to build stadiums, parking lots, restaurants, and other attractions that they will then also enjoy ever-escalating profits from.
Not just strange, it’s effin looney tunes that baseball fans are such bootlicking slaves that support their masters over their neighbors. Unless they choose their TV packages and tickets to the ballgame to go see the owners own, and follow the stats of the owners all year until they spend all offseason speculating how the owners will do next season, baseball fan should advocate for more dollars going into the owners pocket rather than on the field.
Baseball fans are usually intelligent, but have this really big blind spot where they savagely attack the millionaires doing all the work on behalf of the billionaires who are putting all kinds of limits on how successful the team can be for no other reason than for them earn profits they don’t need, can’t use, and won’t appreciate in the slightest.
@Dodgerbleu
There is a multitude of options beyond giving all the payroll to one player, or pocketing the profits. They could look to invest in multiple new players. They could extend players already on the team. I’m all for Bregman earning a wage, and for each team owner to earn a profit on their investment as well. Every team has a budget for player payroll. Even if we may not know the amount, if its not spent, that’s on the POBO, not the owner, in most cases.
Dodgerbleu
it’s effin looney tunes that baseball fans are such bootlicking slaves that support their masters over their neighbors.
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I’d want the best package in the best environment if it was me. So I have no problem with Bregman asking for more. But, I also have no problem with owners offering less. That’s just good business both ways. But:
1-These guys are not your neighbors, and not in your zip code.
2-These guys are not slaves. They make $8M/year on average.
3-The poor people in this country, who feel (rightly or wrongly) that someone arguing over $150,000,000, are not bootlickers.
Don’t hate the working class people making 1% of what Bregman makes.
They are the working class. never mind that you’re trying to use the top 5% or so of MLB players to represent all players, when the reality is that most players don’t make millions and millions in their life. Millionaires are a lot closer to us than billionaires. Millionaires that earn their millions playing sports, that grew up in our neighborhoods, are our neighbors. I’m in a bowling league with Nick Punto. I’m buddies with Skip Shumaker, who grew up in Dana Point. I work with a girl who is best friends with Casey Headley, Chase Headley’s wife. Best friends, Casey and Chase come to work events. I’ve played basketball with Rickey Henderson. I’ve smoked pot with Matt Garza – at a party at Ryan Klesko’s house. One of my friends uncle is Gerry Templeton. I know the grandson of Jerry Reuss. I played softball with Nolan Arenado’s brother. And I’m not anyone special. I’m just a guy.
They are our neighbors, you toolbag. And the billionaires that are focused on profit at the expense of a superior product, the same billionaires that were caught colluding in the 80s, accused of colluding in the 2000s, 2010s, and already so far this decade, see them as slaves, same as us.
I’m not the one that hates the working class, and I’m not the one running to stand up for the billionaire elite oligarchy bc I’m a brainwashed lemming. I feel sorry for you.
The day the players’ association and its big-time agents give a damn about their rank and file as much as you do is the day I’ll listen to you. Fact is, the “wealthy” players and those who will one day be wealthy drive the MLBPA, because they sell the dream to their “working class” that one day they will be wealthy too. It’s the same reason the working class doesn’t vote for higher taxation on the rich, because they expect to be one of the rich who will be soaked.
Please, spare me your Marxist blather, it doesn’t apply in baseball. All wealthy owners–low-lifes they all may be–basically spend the same % of their revenues on baseball operations as every other owner, and there is a lot of fixed costs in this sport. So as a fan of a small revenue team, we are priced out of the free agent market by the silly spending of the big markets flush with cash. So, yeah, when I say spending big on Bregman is stupid, you’re damn right it is, it’s just that some teams can afford stupid a bit more than others. And funny, isn’t it, how former players ascend to front offices and behave just like their predecessors, no?
Baseball is a distraction, that does and always has, fleeced the working class man out of his hard earned meager wages by convincing him he has extraneous wealth to spend and that that wealth is best spent showing solidarity to his local area and HE IS ENTERTAINED!
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
We, the Americans, have no problem with it.
Its been a ling time since any of these people have been working class.
It used to be they did have working class jobs in the winter and made.extra.money playing baseball in the summers.
That stopped quite a while back.
Where have you been?
“spend the same % of their revenues on baseball operations as every other owner”
This is patently false. If you’re just going to make up lies to support your argument, you’re not someone worth arguing with, especially with your “Marxist blather” soundbite you picked up in your echo chamber without knowing wtf you’re talking about, or wtf they’re talking about, clown.
Arguing with a fool only proves there are two. So, have a day. Or don’t, I don’t care what a bootlicker for the elite does or doesn’t do. But I’m going to go ahead and get on with mine, and never think about you again.
You don’t understand what the working class is.
They do not own their enterprise. They work for a wealthy owner who profits unevenly from their contribution. It doesn’t matter if they’re also wealthy – I made more than Miguel Andujar, Edmundo Sosa, Jake Rogers, Travis Jankowski, Amed Rosario, Jake Bauers, Dakota Hudson, Jose Iglesias, Robbie Grossman, Brent Honeywell, Ildemaro Vargas, Curt Casali, Jake Cave, Kevin Newman, Sam Haggerty, Tyler Wade, Matt Thaiss, Andy Ibanez, Nick Fortes, Gavin Sheets, Luke Raley, and dozens of other players who will never be in line for a big payday. I also made more than a bunch of stars like Spencer Strider, Gunnar Henderson, George Kirby, Oneil Cruz, Adley Rutschman, William Contreras, Garrett Crochet, Riley Greene, and Yanier Diaz, who are in line for big paydays.
The average MLB career is under 3 years long for all players, but under 2.7 years for pitchers in particular. Of the 121 pitchers whose rookie year came in 2020, only 67 are still active. 1 in 5 players have only a single season in the MLB in their careers.
2.7 years after making below minimum wage in the minors for several years means that much of the working class outearned these players over the course of their professional careers. So respectfully, you’re absolutely way off base and don’t know what you’re talking about.
Where have you been? Oh, that’s right, in make believe land.
princetonreview.com/careers/22/baseball-player
deadspin.com/mlb-pitchers-nfl-running-backs-career…
You do realize you’re talking to someone who has worked his whole life, right?
I also realize that I’m talking to someone who either doesn’t know the definition of working class, or doesn’t understand the life of the average MLB player. Possibly both. And that has nothing to do with you working your whole life, as I also have.
Nah, he doesn’t. He’s too busy waving his placards on behalf of the poor players, members of the strongest “working class” union in the world. If that union won’t forge protections for its poor members, why should I worry about them? I mean, he’s a Dodger fan, he couldn’t care less whether there’s competition in the game as long as he gets what he wants. He acts just like all the big time players, big time agents, and big time markets who run the sport.
Really?
He passed up the offer because taking less affects agent’s reputation and future contracts for other players. There aren’t any “bargains” because the players’ union opposes such things
When BOS, NYY, NYM, HOU, TOR, PHI, DET, SEA are all expecting to be in the market for a 3B, and you’re the top 3B, you might think a bidding war could happen. I’m sure his agent thought so.
Greed. F Alex Bregman. F Pete Alonso.
Tigers need to get a deal done w Bregman..extend a 7/182 with opt outs after years 1,3 & 5….7th year contract is based on Bregman achieving certain performance based criteria
My goodness I hope Scott Harris is silly enough to do that kind of deal. Tigers will regret it inside of two years. Another Baez-like anchor incoming!
I’m sleep deprived right now. Wasn’t there a player named Scott Harrison. I think he had a brother that played at the same time. When I saw Scott Harris in your comment I thought that’s who you were talking about. Both played for several teams.
Or am I way off on his name? I’m about 90% sure it was Harrison.
George. He played guitar.
Not who I was talking about. I figured it out. I was thinking of Scott Hairston and Jerry Hairston Jr.
Bregman will be average, at best, by/in 2028. Anyone signing him past 2027 will be paying an absolute premium for average-to-below-average production in those seasons.
In fact, there’s no reason to believe his end of career decline hasn’t already begun. Last season could have beeen an off year, or could be the beginning of the end. Either scenario is equally possible.
7 years is too long. He’ll be 38. while there’s a chance he could be still be productive like Carlos Santana or Justin Turner there’s also a chance that contract turns into Baez or the last couple years of Miggy. I think Rainer ends up at 3B long term and that would block him.
I’m down for giving Jung a chance at the hot corner. Tigers can try and put out a potential fire at the deadline.
Let’s defer the decision. Sounds good to me.
Waaaayyyy above market, M’Town. Bregman would sign for a straight 7/$182 mill. with no opt-outs.
Nope. This is not smart and won’t happen. 3 years, 4 max.
One year
$26M
Add on what ever extension he wants in the form of team or mutual option.
Promise to trade him to a contender, to prove his worth and pressure that team into the option.
Maybe a signing bonus of $6M and then one year at $20M.
That would encourage the receiving team by lowering total cost.
Trade him for a prospect even if.you are in first place.
Fife…that makes no sense. You are fired;)
Did you read the Boras statement?
Says teams are not spending, but they can.
Really?
…implies they are just making excuses.
Do you really think Bregman should be paid 1/4 – 1/5 – 1/6 of the entire Tiger player payroll budget?
Pressure tactics, playing the public sentiment.
I.believe.my proposal is.more.than fair.
Maybe you just have not taken the time to understand it.
The guy doesn’t even hit .300! Or hit 30 home runs….
WTF,D?
Question:
What is 30/(110+30) = ?
Bregman has determined his value at that percentage rate of the Tigers payroll.
He thinks he is 1/5 value of the ENTIRE TEAM PLAYER PAYROLL.
I don’t, you do.
We don’t agree to disagree…. I think people are being idiotic and disrespectful and a whole bunch of other nasty things I need a thesaurus to spell correctly…..
I will argue for whichever Scott.hires.me.first!
Why are you assuming the Tigers payroll number to be valid?
The Tigers had revenue of $306 million last year. They were given $62 million by the league for national television rights and revenue sharing. They had a payroll of $118 million all in – players dues, minor leagues, etc.. Only 3 teams spent less than the 38.6% of revenue on payroll that the Tigers did – the As, Orioles, and Rays.
13 teams spent over 50% of their revenue on payroll. The Mets spent 87% of their revenue on payroll. The Blue Jays were 2nd with 75% of their revenue, and they’re publicly traded with shareholders to appease. They managed to spend 75% and not operate a loss.
This is market dependent to an extent, as the Yankees had the third largest payroll but were in the bottom half with 46.5% and Red Sox were in the bottom 3rd with 43.8% spent on payroll, but still managed relatively large payrolls. The Red Sox and Diamondbacks had the same payroll ($220M and $219M). but the Diamondbacks spent 70.1% on payroll to achieve it – and they didn’t lose money. The Rockies 53.1%, the Royals exactly 50%., so running a larger payroll is easier in a large market, but not exclusive to it.
Between owning Little Caesars, the Red Wings, Motor City Casino, and the Tigers, they can and should be running higher payrolls now that the team is competitive (the Orioles too). HBO Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel did a segment on the Ilitch family fleecing Detroit for $324 million in taxpayer money to help build Little Caesars Arena a few years back. This, despite the city being in bankruptcy with a debt of $18 billion, the largest for any city in US history.
So forgive me if I think using the Tigers payroll as some sort of fair market figure is appropriate, when it’s in the bottom 13% of team payroll relative to team revenue, and 2 of the 3 teams are notoriously under-funded, to the point a grievance was filed against the A’s this year and they’re required to have a payroll north of $120 million this year because they weren’t spending their revenue sharing proceeds on their team. The baseball equivalent of money-laundering.
The problem is that the Tigers payroll is so low, not that Bregman would command 1/5 of it. This is a team that ran a $212 million payroll in 2016 and operated at a profit, There’s no reason they should penny pinch now that they’re good, the whole reason to go through a rebuild period is to establish a core and then spend to supplement that core when you’re competitive.
Now, I don’t think they should sign Bregman or that he’s worth the contract. At all. I’m just noting that your argument is flawed as to why. % of team payroll only tells us something if that team payroll is appropriate, which the Tigers is objectively not. If the Tigers weren’t to increase payroll soon, they’ll be facing a grievance as well (right after the Orioles).
I just guessedamated the figure to be around 150-60 based on history. Obviously cap’, I don’t know the actual number.
Maybe you could ask MLBTR how many times I have asked them how badly Chris Illich is taking advantage of the fans. So I do agree with you on most points but I try not to rag on him too much because we all know:
Chris Illich should hire the Superfife.
It is difficult.
I believe in a more balanced payroll. Superstar salaries are obscene and contrary to this method. ($7Mx26)
I agree guys who put their lives into it should walk away more secure. But those signing bonuses look pretty good from here and look at the.number of drafties each year. These fellas know the score or they have been ill advised.
I agree if they do break in, they should walk away with few financial worries. Someone in Torques position for example.
Fife…math is not my strong suit 😉
Personally I hope they move on from Bregman, sign Kim if his shoulder is good and let Jung/Vierling play to start the season. Kim will be out for the start of the season but when he comes back he can slide into 3B or SS if either Jung or Sweeney aren’t playing well and if they are Kim is versatile enough to play all over the diamond and get at bats that way.
For the price of Bregman they could sign Kim, Flaherty and a good Bullpen arm and they wouldn’t be stuck with a long term albatross contract.
I agree with you. They shouldn’t give Bregman what he wants.
You get what I mean though about kinda helping him get the contract he wants (generally) and get over the QO?
1 year + team (or mutual) option
Pay down the first year w/ a signing bonus so total cost is lower to a recipient.
Sell some shirt & stuff
Trade him for prospects
The new team has seen his worth playing for Detroit, wants him, thinks he is a difference maker for that team.
He goes to that team, performs well, he makes the difference.
Now that new team has tremendous pressure to pick up that high dollar option and remember their total cost is a bit lower because of the signing bonuses you paid earlier.
It is a true, “prove it”, contract.
Of course, this all happens whilst the Tigers trounce whoever it is in the World Series……
That part I’m 100% on board for!!!
“He popped 26 homers with a .260/.315/.453 line in his final season in Houston.”
That can’t really be worth $200 mil? What were they thinking not taking the Astros offer at $150m?
Exactly. And with a marked decline in his walk rate? Bregman playing hardball appears ridiculous.
That’s what worries me as a RS fan. His K/W declined badly.
If & it’s a big if Bergman decides to take a deal from Cubs it would have to be very simular to what to Bellinger took. If he signs with Cubs there is possibility Nico or Seiya are traded for pitching, or they go over the Tax again & surprise every fan.Shaw could start season @ 2nd if Nico’s not back 100% from arm surgery , it’s probably his best fit anyway.
They can’t trade Seiya without his approval. Personally I’d rather see Happ traded who also has a full no trade clause. I wouldn’t want them to trade Nico at all. Unless it was in a packaged deal to get Pablo Lopez and Jhoan Duran. I highly doubt the twins do that unless Owen Caissie is involved. And he should be on the very short list of untouchables for the Cubs. They’re gonna need him when Tucker walks in 2026. Probably to the Dodgers. Since they’ll be allowed to have a 40man roster year round.
If onky all those people he filmed and posted himself giving money to would just return the favor.
Bregman must be smoking something if he thought some team was gunna be paying him $25-$30 mil into his late 30s….
I feel like part of the issue Bregman has is he isn’t viewed as a super star. A star maybe but when you think of the Astros…I think of Altuve and Alvarez. Heck even Tucker before Bergman. He also had that weird year or so where he wasn’t very good.
Teams will spend 200+m on a player but they want a true star for that money. Not just a good fit on a team.
Alonso is on the same boat except he was a true star then his star started to fade. Now he is more like bregman but at 1b which is less valuable.
You add that with being on the wrong side of 30 and teams don’t want to add a contract that surely won’t age well.
Simm..bingo. A star being worth 30M a year does NOT mean a lesser player is worth 20M. I think we need to ask just how much help he was getting in that sign stealing saga. Because he hasn’t been the same. He had a hot couple seasons. But his peripherals are NASTY right now. They look like an aging slugger. Him and Kris Bryant were always tied together. Bryant went south too.
Based on this article and all the comments, the Nationals remain the darkest of dark horses. I would love for them to sweep in to get Bregman.
Tigers should pass on Bregman and offer the Phillies Tyler Madden for Alec Bohm. Bregman is better, but Bohm would fill a the Tigs need for RH power and a 3B, and wouldnt involve a lengthy and expensive commitment.
Lol ok, the Cubs would hang up the phone immediately and institute a policy never to take another call from the Detroit Tigers baseball organization, so I’m not sure what that would accomplish…
I hope the Cubs would first inform them that they had the wrong number before hanging up.
Cubs, Phillies, same difference. Ty Madden had an ERA of 8 in AAA last year in 79 innings, earning him the distinction of being the worst SP in all of AAA in 2024..
When your agent is Mr greedy this happens. Take what you can get and move forward
An agents job is to be Mr Greedy. Every agent not just Boras. They get a % that’s how it works.
I’m so glad Ohtani didn’t hire Boras for his agent when he first came to mlb. And then the Dodgers. He would’ve started the bidding at 1.5 billion. With nothing deferred. Even though it was ohtani’s idea to do that.
Redsox dont need him
I’m not a huge fan of adding Bregman, but we could use him. If we have a pre-arranged plan to move Casas, or preferably Yoshida, then he’d be a nice fit, depending on price. I’d say he is definitely worth $27.5M * 5. At that price, they could play around with the options.
Bergman already regrets turning down 156. He will end up around 4 for 100 at best.
Bregman is the face of the Astros cheating scandal. I think that plays into the decision-making of some teams, not all, but some, and more importantly the ones who can afford the contract he is looking for, like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and some AL West teams are the same teams that were directly affected by that scandal and I think fan sentiment does play a part in the decision to acquire him or not.
I think Boras underestimated the longevity of this matter, but like Colin Kaepernick people have a stubborn memory.
Altuve is the face of it – but you’re right, he was a huge part of it… Bregman’s market is smaller because a lot of teams don’t want him because of the cheating scandal (or won’t pay top dollar)… just like Correa (who got a LOT less than projected) & Marwin Gonzalez (who had to take a minor league contract)
Altuve shouldn’t be the face of it when he didn’t participate in it. Teams don’t care – it only the fans who all root for those players the minute they put their favorite team’s jersey on.
doesn’t matter – he was the poster boy for it – plus the chest buzzer – whether true or not, just like the Gulf of Tonkin Incident that got us into the Vietnam War was a lie
Its tough to blame Altuve because Altuve is still pretty awesome…..
Dombrowski calls Middleton to assess a Bregman “just in case” deal.
Secretary realizes what is going to be discussed, cringes a bit as bile comes up and says apologies -Mr Middleton is in a board meeting-.
Then summons the ghost of Rich Little and tells him to get ready (yeah am GenX)
Bregman to the Dodgers for $5 million over six years and $215 million deferred until 2100.
This disaster of a commenting section isn’t often right, but I believe quite a few predicted Bregman would be this year’s “it’s almost spring training and he hasn’t signed yet” guy.
The little guy got out over his skis. Getting humbled.
For the past 3-4 seasons, I feel like Boras has set a number for his clients and it has cost them contracts. I feel like each year he has one mega client but then he ends up costing most of his other clients. Yeah he got Soto and Burnes some money this off season. Maybe it is just me, but I feel like CAA is landing better contracts.
@BarNone Maybe so, but someone commented recently on how Boras rarely hurts his MLB clients in the overall. Take Snell’s deal, where he had a successful platform year and signed the big deal with the Dodgers. Or Chapman, similarly, but with the Giants.
In Alonso’s case the offseason’s not over, but Alonso being greedy is hardly Boras’s fault. Pete could have contracted with evaluators working through law firms and for trivial money learned what his prospects were and what the risks were if he turned down the Mets offer of 7/158m.
Pete never comes across as a particularly bright guy, but he’s hardly an idiot. Boras isn’t a magical svengali who hypnotizes players—he’s a bloviating huckster with a willingness to lie overtly without any concern for the fallout. For all we know, though, in private he told Alonso ‘look, if we go for 9/215m you may well not get it, but the fallback position is we’ll aim for will be a high AAV year to year deal which gives you a $25-32m a year insurance policy for three years. Even one good year during those three years let’s you opt out and get a new deal for what you turned down from the Mets, more or less. And if you don’t have that good year, you take the high AAV for 3 years and hit the market again. All you’d need to get is a $47m deal in FA in the 2027-28 offseason to match the Mets’ 6/137m extension. Everything else is gravy.’
“…Bregman shouldn’t be in danger of any kind of immediate drop-off.”
He ALREADY fell off. 5.1, 4.5, then 4.1 fWAR in 2022-2024.
MLBTR has gotten (almost) as bad as Sports Illustrated. Hasty writeups by scribblers who often don’t know the teams they’re covering and don’t understand the basics of how value is created on the field.
Teams are avoiding Bregman because he’s a good player, no longer a great one, and he’s ALREADY in significant decline. He’s also turning 31, and he turned down Chapman’s deal without anything like Chapman’s 7.1 bWAR / 5.5 fWAR platform season in 2024 to offer teams..
He’s already slow. He has terrific range, but a weak arm suggests a move off of third base in 2-3 years to either 2B, where he’d be one of the oldest 2Bmen in the game and perhaps unplayable there as a result, or 1B or DH, where his bat won’t play beginning in 2027 or 2028.
$200m-plus for a 31 year old who’s lost 25% of his value in the last two seasons and with an OBP plummeting towards .300? He’s much more Matt Chapman v. 2023-24 offseason than he is Arenado v. 2020-21 offseason. 6/156m was a solid deal and a significant risk for the Astros, where a continued decline on a normal aging curve to 3.4, then 2.7, 2.0, then 1.3 fWAR by 2028 already leaves him unplayable after that.
That’s the real problem, here. MLB is almost out of GMs who don’t understand old players, even stars, routinely don’t have more than 2-3 years left where they’re good bets to be productive regulars.
With so few suitors, & none likely of the deepest pocket variety, I’d hope Bergman’s ask would come down. Did GMs not learn a thing from last year? Bregman does not sell tix, unless his family is coming. His power is waning. His defence is weakening. A 3-year, $62m deal with opt-outs is where the ball should drop…
I certainly would not give an older player a long term 200 Million contract who is coming off a .315 OBP.
Detroit or Toronto are the only two teams that makes sense now.