The Hall of Fame announced the results of this year’s Baseball Writers Association of America voting. Ichiro, CC Sabathia and Billy Wagner topped the 75% threshold for induction. They’ll join Dick Allen and Dave Parker in the 2025 class. Allen and Parker were elected by the Classic Baseball Era committee at the Winter Meetings. Ichiro appeared on 99.7% of the ballots, falling one vote shy of unanimity.
Two of the three inductees, Ichiro and Sabathia, get into Cooperstown on their first year. Wagner gets in on his 10th and final opportunity. He’d fallen just a percentage point shy last winter and jumped beyond an 82% vote share with the writers having their last chance to elect him.
Ichiro starred in his home country before making the move to the big leagues during the 2000-01 offseason. He signed a three-year deal with the Mariners and immediately became one of the best players in franchise history. Ichiro led the majors with 242 hits and 56 stolen bases. He hit .350 to win the AL batting title at the top of a loaded Seattle lineup. The ’01 Mariners won 116 games and remain the greatest regular season team in MLB history. They lost a five-game Championship Series to the Yankees.
That was one of the best debut seasons ever. Ichiro was an All-Star and won a Silver Slugger and Gold Glove award in right field. He not only coasted to the Rookie of the Year award but narrowly surpassed Jason Giambi to win the MVP. He joined Fred Lynn as the only rookies to be named the Most Valuable Player.
While that’d be the only time that Ichiro finished top five in MVP balloting, he was the game’s best pure hitter for a decade. He topped 200 hits with an average north of .300 in each of his first 10 seasons. He had arguably his best year in 2004, when he led the majors with a .372 average and tallied a career-high 262 hits. Ichiro was a menace on the bases throughout his prime, topping 30 stolen bases on 10 occasions. He was also the sport’s best defensive right fielder, pairing plus range with an elite arm and twice leading the AL in outfield assists.
An incredibly durable player, Ichiro topped 150 games played in 13 seasons. He led the majors in hits seven times and was selected to the All-Star Game in each of his first 10 years. Ichiro remained an excellent player through his age-36 season. He played all the way until age 45, seeing action with the Yankees and Marlins. Ichiro collected his 3000th career hit while he was playing for Miami, doing it in style with a triple against Colorado’s Chris Rusin at Coors Field. Ichiro returned to Seattle for the end of his career, capping it off in a two-game series between the Mariners and A’s in front of Japanese fans at the Tokyo Dome to kick off the 2019 season.
Ichiro finished his major league career as a .311 hitter who tallied 3089 hits. That’d be a remarkable achievement for any player but is especially impressive for one who spent a few of his prime-aged seasons in NPB and didn’t make his major league debut until he was 27. Ichiro was never a huge power threat in games, though many believe that he could’ve been an impact power bat had he prioritized that over elite pure hitting ability. In any case, he concluded with 117 career homers and stole more than 500 bases. He won 10 Gold Gloves and three Silver Slugger awards.
Sabathia was a first-round pick by the Indians in 1998. He was in the majors within three years of being selected out of high school. He won 17 games during his rookie season and finished as the runner-up behind Ichiro in ’01 Rookie of the Year voting. The southpaw was a durable mid-rotation arm for Cleveland for the first few seasons of his career. He earned consecutive All-Star nods in 2003 and ’04.
While he was on track for a very good major league career, Sabathia didn’t look like a future Hall of Famer. That changed in the second half of the 2000s. Sabathia turned in a 3.22 ERA over 28 starts in 2006. He cemented himself as the game’s top workhorse the following year. Sabathia led the majors with 241 innings across 34 starts in ’07. He topped 200 strikeouts for the first time and turned in a 3.21 ERA while winning 19 games. He earned his third All-Star selection and won the Cy Young. He helped the Indians to the postseason for the first time in six years, though he struggled in two starts in the ALCS as they were knocked off by the Red Sox.
Cleveland wasn’t on a playoff track in 2008. Sabathia was an impending free agent whom the Indians had no expectation of re-signing. They traded him to the Brewers a few weeks before the deadline for a prospect package led by Matt LaPorta. While LaPorta didn’t work out, the unheralded acquisition of Michael Brantley as a “lesser” piece of that deal had a huge impact on Cleveland baseball.
Sabathia’s stint in Milwaukee was brief but could hardly have gone better. The southpaw had a legendary second half, winning 11 games with a 1.65 ERA in 17 starts. Sabathia remarkably completed seven of those starts and recorded three shutouts. He more or less carried Milwaukee to a 90-win season and a Wild Card berth, though they were bounced by the eventual champion Phillies in the Division Series. Sabathia finished that year with a career-high 253 innings and 251 strikeouts with a 2.70 earned run average. He finished fifth in NL Cy Young voting even though he spent half the season in the American League.
The following offseason, Sabathia signed with the Yankees on a seven-year, $161MM megadeal. He tossed 230 innings of 3.37 ERA ball and won an MLB-best 19 games in his first season. He followed up with a 1.98 ERA across five postseason starts, winning the ALCS MVP award while helping the Yanks to their 27th World Series title. Sabathia would respectively win 21 and 19 games over the next two years, topping 230 innings with a low-3.00s ERA in both. He finished in the top four in Cy Young voting in each of his first three seasons in pinstripes.
He earned his final All-Star nod in 2012 and reached 200 innings for the last time in ’13. Sabathia remained in the Bronx on a series of short-term deals after the expiration of his first free agent contract. He was a capable back-end starter until his retirement in 2019. Sabathia finished his career with nearly 3600 innings over parts of 19 seasons. He posted a 3.74 ERA, won 251 games, and recorded more than 3000 strikeouts. His 3093 punchouts rank 18th on the all-time leaderboard.
Wagner is the ninth primary reliever to earn the call from Cooperstown. A first-round pick of the Astros in 1993, he would spend the majority of his career in Houston. Wagner debuted in ’95 and earned his first handful of saves the following year. He was Houston’s full-time closer by ’97, when he saved 23 games with a 2.85 ERA over 66 1/3 innings.
The hard-throwing lefty reached 30 saves for the first time in his career the ensuing season. He followed up with a sterling 1.57 ERA while striking out 124 hitters across 74 2/3 frames in 1999. Wagner picked up 39 saves, earned his first All-Star nod, and landed fourth in Cy Young voting. He was named MLB’s best reliever that season.
He struggled in 2000 but rebounded with a dominant three-season stretch to close his Astros tenure. Wagner topped 60 innings with at least 35 saves while allowing an ERA of 2.73 or better in each season between 2001-03. He was selected to two more All-Star Games over that stretch. Wagner had arguably his best year in ’03. He led the majors with 67 games finished while turning in a 1.78 earned run average. Wagner struck out 105 batters — one of four career seasons in which he topped the century mark — while throwing a career-best 86 innings.
The Astros traded Wagner to Philadelphia over the 2003-04 offseason. While his first season with the Phillies was shortened by injury, he posted a 1.51 ERA with 38 saves across 77 2/3 innings in ’05. He inked a four-year free agent deal with the Mets the following offseason. Wagner earned two more All-Star selections while posting a cumulative 2.37 ERA over three and a half seasons in Queens. He had a strong month in Boston after an August ’09 trade.
Wagner returned to free agency and signed a one-year contract with the Braves. He finished his career in style, posting a 1.43 ERA with 37 saves across 69 1/3 innings at age 38. Wagner punched out 104 hitters en route to his seventh and final All-Star nod. He finished his career with a 2.31 ERA over 903 innings. Wagner recorded nearly 1200 strikeouts and ranks eighth all-time with 422 saves. He struck out a massive 33.2% of opposing hitters over a career spanning parts of 16 seasons.
Opponents of his Hall of Fame case have pointed to his lack of a postseason track record. Wagner indeed struggled in October, allowing 13 runs in 11 2/3 playoff innings over seven seasons. That’s an extremely small sample, though, and his regular season performance was remarkably consistent despite the volatility of most relief pitchers. Wagner had a sub-3.00 ERA in all but one season and reached 30 saves on nine occasions.
Carlos Beltrán and Andruw Jones find themselves within shouting distance of induction. Beltrán appeared on 70.3% of ballots in his third year of eligibility. That’s a marked jump from last year’s approximate 57% vote share, giving him a solid chance at election next offseason. Jones appeared on 66.2% of ballots, up around five points from last winter. He has two more seasons of eligibility.
No one else received a vote share of 40% or higher. Aside from Ichiro and Sabathia, the only first-time candidates who reached the 5% cutoff necessary to stay on the ballot were Félix Hernández (20.6%) and Dustin Pedroia (11.9%). Wagner was the only person in his final year of eligibility. No returning candidates dropped below a 5% vote share, so the only players who fell off the ballot were the first-time candidates who received minimal support.
The big question of next year’s class is whether Beltrán and (less likely) Jones will be elected. Manny Ramírez will be entering his final year of eligibility and is likely to drop off the ballot after receiving around 34% of the vote this year. Cole Hamels leads the crop of first-ballot players in what’ll likely be a smaller class than this year’s group of inductees.
Full voting breakdown available via the BBWAA. Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Congrats!!!
Who is the Ahole that didn’t vote for Ichiro?
Probably that Philly writer that explains his HOF ballot on here. It’s always awful. He’s a huge idiot.
Nope. Probably some bed wetting Yankee coddler who couldn’t handle Ichiro getting the same respect as Mariano.
Hank Aaron didn’t get 100% either. One voter, who made sure his name was known, decided it was more important to get attention than vote for the all-time, non-cheating HR leader.
@Krukker My thoughts exactly
Krukker, very true. And as much as I loved and respected Mariano, it’s absurd that the only unanimous recipient is a closer. A guy who played 1/18th of a game three times a week.
What difference does it make whether he got 100% or 99.7%? They aren’t going to make him sweep up afterwards at the induction ceremony because he didn’t get everyone’s vote.
Hell, with the disagreeable nature of people nowadays, just getting 51% of anything should be considered a miracle. Just appreciate that is a Hall of Famer and forget about the minutia and white noise of stuff that doesn’t really matter.
Yeah, I don’t really get why this is such a crime to some people. That one vote literally changes nothing.
It means everything because it means the only player to be unanimous is a failed starting pitcher, making the Hall of Fame look completely stupid.
How does that change anything?
It makes the voters look stupid, because there’s 100 players more deserving than a failed starter
The difference is the fact that a sportswriter covering baseball for decades basically made a case that Ichiro is not a Hall of Famer. If that sits well with you then all the power to you. I do not know if there is a good argument to keep Ichiro off the ballot considering the depth of players to choose from. Especially from a so-called expert that has the privilege to vote based on years of service.
Ok, so now they would be 100 players more deserving that a failed starter and an outfielder. What has changed?
But what difference does that have on…. anything? Do you recall George Brett’s hall of fame vote total? Do you even care? What about Tony Gwynn? Or Pedro Martinez? These were all slam dunk cases that failed to get 100% of the vote. Do you care about those?
Of course not, they’re all hall of famers, and that’s all anyone remembers.
George Brett deserved 100%! Certainly more than a failed starting pitcher!!
Yep… and that fact that Brett failed to get 100% changed literally nothing. It’s almost as if it’s not worth getting upset about.
Not sure which one of the odd comments is for me, however you are missing the major point. The baseball writers are doing a disservice to the game and the Hall of Fame by the way they vote. George Brett, you ask? I remember he did not get 100% of the vote. He should have. Same with Yount and Ryan who were inducted with him. In fact, both Carlton Fisk and Gary Carter should have been inducted as well.
The very same writers who knowingly protected players using PEDs only to pretend they did not know, punishing them when it came to the Hall of Fame. That aside, a player is either a Hall of Famer or not. Vote properly.
I’d just like to know who didn’t think he deserved it. Whoever it was is an idiot.
wayneroo, exactly! It makes all the difference in the world if that writer has a vote for life.
Exactly. Ridiculous. Griffey, no not worthy. The HOF is a joke.
@hi
The difference is nevertheless he’s clearly a HOF and the no vote is because they feel like they need to separate the Babe Ruth’s and Ted Williams from those that are clearly amazing but not, in there eyes, the historically perceived top 1%. It’s silly. Petty.
Babe Ruth and Ted Williams didn’t get 100%! It’s an absurd tradition that should’ve ended probably by Jackie Robinson, and there’s several dozen more since!
But, nooooo, the failed starter can only get 100%.
In spite of that convoluted thought…. Ichiro is now a hall of famer, and the way this one guy voted had no impact on that. Go back to yelling at clouds.
Great point, emt. That really drives the conversation. I’m glad an adult like you can really help everybody understand the issues!
Somehow I don’t think the hysteria over one vote is because people are concerned for the reputation of the BBWAA writers. Instead, I think it’s an opportunity to exaggerate the significance of a minor circumstance
@ Skenes. I hear you, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that voter doesn’t think Ichiro is a HOFer. Some voters get hung up on whether someone is a first ballot HOFer, which is still an utterly ridiculous position to take. Either someone is in the voter’s opinion a HOFer or they’re not. I get the outrage regardless.
It didn’t take that vote to make the HOF look stupid. They literally have several KKK level racists there, but refuse to honor some of the best who ever played because they were doing something the majority of players were doing in 90/00’s.
Good grief.
Every reliever is a failed starting pitcher according to you. Just happens to be the best reliever of all time.
He also wasn’t really a failed starter. During the 1995 season, due to depth, he was tried as a reliever and was lights out in the ALDS. Was he a dominate starter? Nope, but he also didn’t develop his cutter yet.
Scott K: Although the KKK issue is a major moral issue, I think the difference is that, unlike PEDs, membership in the KKK did not help them cheat to better performance, better health, or better recovery.
In short, it’s a valid argument to keep people out who were/are part of extremist groups/movements based on the immorality of their actions, but I don’t think you can compare that to keeping players out that cheated at the game of baseball.
Keep in mind, I’m not making an argument for or against the PED-era guys here, nor equating their actions on a moral scale; rather, I’m just making an observation about the comparison between the two groups of people as it relates to baseball.
It’s just funny. Everyone agrees on ichiro expect one dude. It would be funny to know who and hear the reason. “I dunno I just didn’t care for him. Can’t put my finger on it.”
It’s just funny. If it had been 10% instead of one vote it wouldn’t be a thing. It’s entertaining
His ERA was 5.94 as a starter. Looks like a failure.
From 1989 to 2006, Randy Johnson threw at least 84 innings 17 years. In his 19 seasons, Rivera threw more than 84 innings once.
Randy would’ve been a dominant closer (he pitched the last 3 innings of that 1995 ALDS, just like he did in Game 7 of the 2001 WS), but he was a dominant starter. But he doesn’t get 100%? It’s ridiculous. Starting is so much more valuable than closing!
@YankeeClipper: The Steroid era ruined the HOF. Not in the way some may think though. It ruined the HOF because it made writers, who at best were accomplices for the crimes against baseball during Steroid era by not doing their job, into judges and juries of who did and didn’t partake in taking PED’s. A job I can guarantee they have no chance of doing accurately.
That’s what made HOF dumb, not Mariano Rivera unanimous selection.
Scott, that’s well said man. Can’t disagree with your perspective on those points.
@deep
I just used them as an example
@deep
Your logic is so silly. Mo went from being a lousy 1 year starter to the greatest relief pitcher of all time. You dismiss it like there weren’t thousands of failed starters that never got a chance to move to a different position let alone become the greatest. You know what other HOF was a failed starter? Stan Musial. Who cares what position ym they started off. It’s about where they played the overwhelming part of their careers and how they performed.
Perhaps if we took a vote away from Mariano they might start to get it?? But I doubt it …
or….he knew he’d be elected, and instead used his 10 votes on other guys that needed them?
#Skenes Mariano last started a game his rookie season, followed by 18 years of dominant relief pitching. Trying to label him as a “failed starting pitcher” is an absolutely ignorant statement. Countless HOFers had poor rookie seasons. Regardless of the reason what came to be in their careers is what is relevant, dwelling on one season is short sighted and weak minded.
Now I do find ironic that a closer was first to be unanimous. Not because it was Mo who was deserving of it. But the fact that HOF voters had been very hard on relief pitchers in general for most of HOF’s existence.
@Skenes Now that statement I can absolutely back. If a player is a near unanimous first ballot HOF, I feel they should have to answer to a committee why they did not vote for that player. If it is a petty unjust answer they should lose their right to vote.
Baseball went from the first class all the way to Mo without a unanimous player, the amount of greats who missed a handful or even one vote is mind boggling. I get after the first class being limited to 5 players left a bit of a quandary, but to drag spite on for as long as some of the voters had was petty to say the least.
I support keeping immoral extremists out of the Hall of Fame because baseball is a business and wants to be family friendly. The difficulty is that morality evolves from generation to generation. And occasionally regresses.
I am open to an asterisk wing for PED hall of famers because I am sure several owners, managers and coaches know about the cheating. But I lose no sleep if it does not happen. The cheaters got paid well, they got to live a life of luxury, missing out on the Hall of Fame is not a big deal to me, bigger problems in the world to worry about.
I don’t care who gets 100%. The Big Unit was the best pitcher that I ever saw in person. Greg Maddux was runner-up.
I agree Johnson and Maddux were both amazing. The fact that they were left off any ballots I believe should be answered for. I’d love to hear what the explanation was. More importantly, for the integrity of the HOF I believe a committee should hear why they chose to do so.
What if every voter decided to have been the one to try and make sure Mays, Mantle, Jr, Maddux, Rickey, etc weren’t unanimous and they fell off after one ballot. I know it did not happen, but when you have voters who do not vote how whether a player is truly worthy or not it makes possible. Those voters should lose that right.
VegasMoved: Not almost as if it’s not worth getting upset about. IT IS NOT worth getting upset about.
Why qualify it with a weasel word like ALMOST?
deepseamonster: How many times do you need to say “failed starting pitcher?”
And why does Rivera’s career track bother you so much?
Makes a voter look stupid, not the HoF. It’s also irrelevant. No one thinks less of a player if he doesn’t get 100%.
@Usual. Exactly. And sometimes they have 10 others they want to vote for and don’t vote for guys like Ichiro because they know their vote won’t prevent his selection. Who knows what they were thinking or what their motive was?
It’s the HOF. It’s not the definitive answer on anyone’s career. Ichiro was fantastic and his accomplishments won’t be forgotten. Time to stop all the bashing and spend time congrsdulating him and sharing your stories about him.
Player with most HR in MLB history not in HOF
Player with most Hits in MLB history not in HOF
Player with Highest BA in HOF did not play in MLB
Yaz received higher Pct of votes on first ballot than Ted Williams received on first ballot !
Commissioner during NO World Series, (season aborted)
and during steroid use explosion, and stuck Washington into TV deal under Baltimore control is IN HOF
Hall of Fame been looking stupid for some time. But HOF doesn’t vote. It’s not HOF fault
@deepsea, how many times are you gonna show your hate for the greatest closer ever? Give it a rest. The voters voted unanimously. I wanna hear you say the same thing about other failed players. Pujols, for example.
@Vegas, @deepsea is just chapped.
Tigers3232 I did not mention Mariano Rivera. I am not sure why you went after me here. Never would I label him as a failed starting pitcher.
Too late.
Usual Suspect, it means that voter is not a baseball ambassador nor enhances the game in a positive way if they truly believe Ichiro Suzuki is not a first ballot Hall of Famer.
You just don’t get it. So fuggedaboutit.
I’m an M’s fan and saw Ichiro’s Seattle career up close. I’m not upset that he wasn’t unanimous. If Jeter or Griffey weren’t unanimous to name two, so it goes with Ichiro.
Personally, I’m irritated that they did it for a failed reliever, and now we’re back to this stuff again about one jerk voter.
If Rivera had been the icebreaker, and Ichiro was the 5th unanimous, OK. But to backslide to the HoF’s historic stupidity? That’s why I’m advocating the voter be charged with a Capital Crime!
Don’t condescend at this adult over a typo. Real man you are lol.
Hope you get the same fate I’m hoping for for this voter.
Babe Ruth wasn’t unanimous. 37 people didn’t vote for Walter Johnson. I’ll live knowing that one person didn’t vote for Ichiro.
Meh Babe Ruth was fat and slow, like Rob Deer in headlights in clutch time. Walter Johnson was overrated, just 2 pitches barely lasted 6 innings, a poor man’s Don Sutton without the goofy 70s Brady Bunch perm.
DeepSea
Let it go, all “Capital Crimes” have received pardons or commutations.
There is no doubt the Big Unit (101.1 WAR) was more impressive than Rivera (56.3 WAR) and no doubt Rivera was more impressive than CC Sabathia (62.3 WAR).
I would have omitted CC and Wagner from my ballot, but both are close enough that I don’t get worked up about it. agner it is just the small amount of innings with no post-season success to give him a boost from the borderline. CC had a WHIP of 1.535 in post season and 1.259 in regular season. If CC gets in, then Zack Greinke has to get in, IMHO.
I heard that Mariano Rivera was also a failed painter, a failed carpenter, a failed grocery store cashier, a failed zoo keeper, a failed pickleball player, a failed train conductor, and a failed tap dance. Good thing he figured out that whole pitching thing.
Deep Sea
Re: failed reliever
When you type the same thing ten times, a typo is inevitable
It’s almost assuredly the same writer who didn’t vote for Jeter. Maybe he’s submitting a blank ballot?
Wow – there are so many people that get their noses out of joint for the smallest of reasons on here. This is a bunch of sportswriters that are voting for HoF induction – this is not major league baseball running the show. To expect 100% agreement is just about as silly as it can be.
For real
Really amazed that Babe Ruth and Cy Young was NOT unanimous.
Unbelievable that Jackie Robinson, Ted WIlliams, WIllie Mays and Hank Aaron was NOT unanimous..
And based upon those facts, I was extremely surprised that RIvera was unanimous.
It was a LA writer who deferred his vote. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
178iq: Is that somehow illegal? And why do you need to be homophobic about it?
Ichiro Suzuki: 393 votes, 99.7% CC Sabathia: 342 votes, 86.8% Billy Wagner: 325 votes, 82.5% Carlos Beltrán: 277 votes, 70.3% Andruw Jones: 261 votes, 66.2% Chase Utley: 157 votes, 39.8% Alex Rodriguez: 146 votes, 37.1% Manny Ramirez: 135 votes, 34.3% Andy Pettitte: 110 votes, 27.9% Felix Hernández: 81 votes, 20.6% Bobby Abreu: 77 votes, 19.5% Jimmy Rollins: 71 votes, 18% Omar Vizquel: 70 votes, 17.8% Dustin Pedroia: 47 votes, 11.9% Mark Buehrle: 45 votes, 11.4% Francisco Rodriguez: 40 votes, 10.2% David Wright: 32 votes, 8.1% Torii Hunter: 20 votes, 5.1%
Why did you post this
He said he would charge the writer who voted “no” with Capital Crimes.
Was playing with his word choice, nothing more.
Godo stuff, no complaints. Andruw is hopefully in soon.
Yeah, no complaints. Very happy for Billy. I wish Andruw could soon join him.
Andruw Jones? No way didn’t even have 2000 hits, 0 rings, and was a below avg player at age 30.
Now mention the other parts. Generational defensive talent at CF. 434 HR, .823 career OPS. He even has more career WAR than Ichiro, if you care for that metric
He’ll get in IMO, being at 66% with 2 years left. Though I do think he is borderline
434 homers one of the greatest defensive player of all time I think he deserves to get in. But I am a little biased because I’m a Braves fan.
Jones’ case is interesting to me because it could well influence the eventual case of Mike Trout, who, to me, is a bonafide HOF’r, but whose numbers (hits and honers, for example) could end up very similar to Jones’ – save Trout’s ROY and 3 AL MVPs (can argue that he should have 5 or even 6)- if he can’t stay healthy.
Trout is a lock.
@ Zerb63. Ted Williams had zero rings. So? The rest if the stuff you mention is pertinent. The rings? Not so much. Lots of bench guys have rings.
He’s the best defensive CF in history and by a laughable margin. No one else comes close, not even Mays. If you’re going to let in Designated Hitters who don’t even play defense at all, you have to let in the top 10 best defensive players in history…and Jones was also an above-average hitter with 400+ home runs.
At age 30 he was a 3.0 WAR player, which is above average. If you had said age 31 you would be correct. That would not disqualify him from HOF consideration.
Rings have nothing to do with HOF qualifications. Neither do # of hits unless the number is just so staggeringly high that its an automatic.
Trout is an automatic, 1st ballot, absolute no-doubter. If he retired today his WAR is 24 higher than Jones and his WAR is the 5th highest all time for an OF.
@smkelly Trout is a 3 time MVP, he is getting in. There are a few 2 time MVPs who got in who fell off and they re all a bit controversial. With 3 MVPs he’s just not being passed up.
As for Jones comparison to Trout, Jones was simply never the best in the game like Trout was. I for one feel Jones is worthy of being in the HOF, but he is not on the same level as Trout.
Meh he no Jim Edmond
I would pick Andruw Jones over Billy Wagner is shortness of career is not a disqualifier.
But I won’t lose sleep over those who say both, neither or reverse the conclusion.
Outinleft
Post-season performance is like a tie-breaker for me, rings, not so much.
He no Paul Blair, who covered so much ground, they made him mall cop
I agree with all of you that say Trout is a bona fide HOF’r.
I was basing the statement on Zbrs63’s stupid argument that Andruw Jones doesn’t have 2000 hits and 0 rings. Neither does Trout, so using that logic, Trout isn’t a HOF’r.
Andruw Jones is not the best defensive CF in baseball history. Might be Top 10. Maybe.
Jones has highest defensive WAR of All Time. Nearly all lists have him in at least top 3 with most having him at #1.
mlb.com/news/kevin-kiermaier-rates-among-all-time-…
Problem with Andruw Jones candidacy: yes, he was washed up at 30. Who among us wasn’t washed up by age 30? Then again he started crushing it with the Braves when he was 12.
When scorekeepers are ready to mark errors we can start giving defensive WAR some serious consideration. Andruw Jones dropped an easy fly ball in the 2000 NLDS, called it a hit, and I am sure that was not the first time. Also harder to measure the greatness of all the CF playing before 1980. We really do need a better measurement than the current metrics that does not show route running, throws to cutoff, throws to bases, decision-making and more.
Borderline today. Into the Groove tomorrow
Top 9 more like.
@Skenes Zone rating and UZR measure all that you mentioned.
MLB start televising games in 1939. SFrom 1949 on games were recorded with 3 cameras or more.
As for the players prior to 1980, see above they were recorded. Aside from that a consensus of fans, writers, analysts, etc who have watched players across many eras widely view Jones one of if not the best CF ever from a defensive standpoint.
As for this fly ball you claim Jones missed that was “easy”, the scorekeepers who are fat more experienced and qualified obviously disagreed. And if this did happen as you say, did you even consider it was Jones that made it look easy???
Sorry but I find it laughable that any fan would claim a ball to be “easy”. It’s much easier to armchair QB then actually attempt to make the play. And you from your coach have no clue the glare from the field, how the ball is carrying from prospective of a fielder, speed of ball offbat and ease to pick up a bead, distraction of fan noise, wind, etc.
Agreed – other than Ichiro not being unanimous.
Andruw was a lifetime .254 hitter and 5 time all star.
Why exactly should he be in the HOF?
Uh… maybe 10 Gold Gloves and 400+ HR’s??? If he was half as productive in his 30s, he would already be in
isn’t 500 the magical number?
Juice
500 is magical # for power hitters. What makes Jones case unique is his greatness defensively at a premium position. The 434 HRs is just something that backs his case. Getting that close to a milestone for power hitters when his case was made with his glove is what makes his case for HOF so compelling.
DDC,
A player’s batting average is a miniscule part of his value.
And there is no “magical number” for HR or anything else.
Someone said he hit some homers and played some defense.
10 gold gloves, youngest player ever to hit a world series home run 434 home runs 62.7 WAR.
There’s players with far worse resumes on the HOF.
There are also players with resumes that are as good that didn’t even get past the first ballot like Jim Edmonds..
Lol gold gloves.
I’d be fine with Jones and Edmonds in the HOF, so I don’t get the argument
Edmonds – 60.4 WAR. 42.6 7 Yr Peak WAR. 393 HR. His resume is not as good. Close, but not as good.
Except Edmonds is not going to get into the Hall. I doubt he ever even gets on the veteran’s ballot at all. So do you get it now?
No. You said his resume was as good. Its close, but not as good.
If you are trying to say that Edmonds defense was as good, then you are just flat out wrong. He was not even in the same category. Jones was historically good, probably the best to ever suit up. Edmonds was was good but not even the best in any particular season he played other than 2005.
That historically great defense is what may get Jones in eventually.
Funny how all of that went away after the steroid era.
Jones is widely considered the best defensive CF of All Time. He also has highest defensive WAR of any CF. While Edmonds was an amazing CF, he was not Jones.
I do hope Edmonds at least gets strong consideration by a committee at some point. His case is just not as strong as Jones’s is.
Not sure who all these players are with just as good resumes. I agree Edmonds is kind of close, but still not as good.
Better than Ozzie Smith and Ozzies in based solely on reputation.
Theo,
Ozzie was the greatest defender ever at the most important defensive position. And he became a solid hitter. His election was about performance, not reputation.
Jim Edmonds > Andruw Jones
A pile of rocks> >> Melchez
Again, I can’t spell. Congrats Godo Baseball Club I guess?
Way to go, Wags!
About time
He was named after a 3rd rate restaurant?
congrats ichiro, cc sabathia, and billy wagner! totally worthy of the hall!
especially ichiro, what a pleasure to watch him play . he’s 1 of those guys that you rooted for always. he was a thrill to watch
absurd that ichiro isnt unanimous!
A glove supreme!
The person who didn’t vote Ichiro better have not voted for anyone.
He voted for someone. There were no blank ballots
he voted for 10 people and not one of them was Ichiro. Probably the same dude that didnt vote for Griffey.
If they voted for 10 people I at least get it. Probably thought “Ichiro is getting in either way, let me use that vote on someone who really needs it.”
thats stupid logic. You get 10 votes and you should vote for the 10 guys that you feel should be in HOF. Not on someone you probably didnt vote for in the past but are only voting for now because they need the help. If you’re not voting for Griffey or Ichirio you’re basically saying there are 10 guys on that ballot you believe are more HOF worthy.
It doesn’t mean that at all. If you believe there are more than 10 worthy candidates on the ballot then it makes sense to distribute your vote in a way that improves the chances of all those players making it. One vote isn’t hurting Ichiro.
well there was only 1 guy with that logic with a HOF vote.
Very few voters submitted ballots with 10 players. The point is only relevant to those voters.
well you can submit 10 votes. So even if you only submit 3 votes, you’re saying that those are the only 3 players that are worthy of HOF. So if you leave Ichiro off, he’s not HOF worthy in your mind
this! everyone criticizing the one voter trying to get the most guys votes. used to be a handful of voters who never voted for 1st year guys trying to make sure nobody worthy gets left behind
Again, it doesn’t mean that. If you think there’s more than 10 HOF-worthy players, then you’re going to have to leave somebody off. May as well leave off the person who needs the vote the least.
I respect that decision. He KNEW Ichiro was going to be a HOFer regardless of his vote, so he chose to cast a vote for someone that needed it more. You only have to get 75% of the vote. They don’t bring out dinner to the Hall of Famers in order based on vote total or anything. There is ABSOLUTELY no difference between 99.7 and 100 and 76 for that matter in this regard.
“Stupid” logic is still logic. People have a right to their opinion, even if you disagree with them.
@slund. Do you know how many players got 100% of the vote on the first ballot? Just one; Mariano Rivera. Vegas is correct.
How do we know he voted for 10? Is it said somewhere?
I don’t know, I’m basing that off of slund’s comment that “he” voted for 10. The ballot probably isn’t public yet. But strategically leaving Ichiro off the ballot seems more plausible than leaving him off based on merit.
They said it with no clear evidence and everyone took it for truth. I would just like the link or report that they are citing, no shade towards them.
I did see one writer who was thinking of not voting for Ichiro because he knew he was assured to get in, and he wanted to have a full 10-person ballot with giving Ichiro’s vote to someone else. He decided NOT to do that because he was afraid he would be “that guy” who would draw the anger of two countries. Perhaps the guy who didn’t vote for Ichiro did it for that reason. If so, come out and say so. Don’t hide like the non-Jeter voter did.
To be honest, if he comes out, gives his rational and reasoning, and apologizes to Ichiro, my bitterness might subside
“rationale”
@Fenway If he didnt vote for 10 than that means he didnt vote for Ichiro because he was voting for someone else that needed the vote but was then not voting for Ichiro because he doesnt think he deserves HOF. That would be worse if he didnt vote for 10 and left him off.
@SalaryCapMyth Yes, I know only 1 has been unanimous. I think that is dumb. 1 voter did not vote for Griffey either which is stupid and many others. Old timers used to make sure no one got in unanimous because their favorite players from the old days didnt go in unanimous so no one should in their minds. When Trout is on the ballot, every one should vote for him, same with Ohtani, Soto, Verlander, and others. But none of them will go in unanimously either because 1 person wont put them on their ballot.
yeah yeah yeah……
Apologizes? For what? He was not required to vote for Ichiro.
I know, he shouldn’t have to, but this is what would calm me down. He has no mandate to apologize, I would hope he would if he did it solely to keep others on the ballot, but its fine either way.
Vegas
Good argument. I don’t buy it, but it is the best argument that I have heard
Mine wouldn’t. Someone who votes like that is a d***. And the history of HOF voting is littered with d***s who thought it was fun to “punish” players like Williams and Mantle, whom they decided were not “virtuous” enough to get their votes. It makes ya wonder, though. In the history of HOF voting, only Mariano Rivera got 100%??? Not Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams, Berra? Not Aaron, Spahn, Koufax, MAYS??? Apparently, Adrian Beltre got a higher % of votes than Brooks Robinson. Maybe they should forget the whole thing. Just have a Really Good Players HOF and let them all in.
A small Hall proponent could reasonably argue that with his closing 6 to 8 seasons, Ichiro was the first man to play himself OUT of the Hall of Fame.
Not saying I’d make that argument—but it’s a reasonable one that deserves a stronger counter than ‘but he’s FAME-ous.’
—Bizarre that the voters couldn’t do better than vote him 7th for the MVP in 2oo4. 9.2 bWAR, highest in the AL, and 1.6 bWAR higher than the second highest total for a position player that year. That was his 262 hits year, when he won a GG, batted .372, and played 161 games
JackStrawb– When you say “A small Hall proponent” do you mean like 1 guy? Cause that’s obviously the only Hall proponent who had, maybe not that argument or did, but some kind of argument that Itchy Scratchy shouldn’t have his bust cast.
Here are four members who ran out there for 19 seasons with their last 7 years compared. Maybe you are right and that one dude didn’t like the last 7rs from Itchy.
I really don’t count his last two yrs in Seattle. He was more a clubhouse voice with 15 games in 2018 and 2019 was only there to play the opening series in Japan for 2 games.
Like to hear what else you think even though i agree with you, in that I wouldn’t make that initial argument to keep him out.
stathead.com/baseball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&…
There are people who will give up their vote because they assume that someone like Ichiro will definitely get in. I think that’s not fair to 100% obvious players like Ichiro!
Congrats to all 5!
% ?? Who are the five ?
Dave Parker and Dick Allen are the other two.
Pretty outstanding class. Might be worth a trek to that part of the planet on induction day
Every HOF induction is worth the trip, if just to get to meet so many living HOF members.
And Pete Rose!
What weirdo didn’t vote for Ichiro?
Probably one of the writers that figured Ichiro, was ROY, made it to the post season very seldom, and was a selfish slap hitter, that didn’t help his team win overall…
Why would anyone hold ROY against a player?
Because it didn’t help the team win…
Because he was a 40 yd old rookie
Being wookie of the year also has stalled Chewbaccas attempts to garner an Oscar, despite repeated calls and much grassroot support
@c us stink
Probably the biggest clown take I’ve read in a while. “Selfish slap hitter”…you’re right, he should have been striking out, for the team. Also, Mike Trout sucks, he only went to the playoffs once.
Bozo
Mike Trout is an incredible talent. He’s always injured. So when he isn’t playing, it sucks…if you watched Ichiro, really watched him, you’d see he’s over rated…I like and respect your disagreement tho.
Ohtani been to playoffs once. Also, Trout was rarely injured until the last few years. He finished top 2 in MVP voting his first 5 years in MLB and top 5 his first 9. That led to 1 playoff appearance. In MLB, you can have the best player in the history of the game and it doesnt mean you will even compete for division titles
You just made my point. Everyone seems to think Ichiro walked on water. Great. That’s their opinion. We had supposedly “the best player” and didn’t win a WS. I’d rather have several above average players in Ichiro’s place that helped to win the WS.
Griffey overrated? Never won anything. Edgar overrated? Selfish doubles hitter that never helped the team win.
Edgar had one of the biggest hits in franchise history to help propel his team…yes, a double. Not a slap hit.
Don’t blame Ichiro for the rest of the team not pulling their weight. That’s just ridiculous. “I don’t want one great player and no playoffs… I want a handful of better than average guys who get to the playoffs?” What?! How about surround an all time great with talent?
That’s not what was said. I would prefer above average players that would win the WS. If people think he’s that great, that’s their opinion. I have mine, and wasn’t that impressed with the guy.
How can you say he didn’t help his team win? His rookie year they won 116 games, the most ever. They don’t do that without Ichiro.
Respectfully, I don’t care if the team wins 516 games. They didn’t win the WS that year. And everyone knows they should have.
Yes they should have. It sucked when they lost to the Yankees. I think they lost a lot of momentum when the season was postponed due to 9/11. That’s not an excuse, just an unexpected reality they had to face. Winning the WS should always be the goal (tell that to the Mariners owners) but tying the all time regular season win record is still quite an accomplishment and Ichiro scored the most runs on the team that year and had the highest WAR.
In fact, I wish he’d come out of retirement and play for the Mariners this season. He’d probably hit better than half their lineup!
It reminds me of the movie “Cobb” where Ty Cobb is asked what he thought he’d hit if he played now and he says .290 then he’s asked “why only .290, you were a career .356 hitter? And he replies “Cause I’m 72 F**kin years old!
@C Us Sink
By your standards, Ernie Banks should not be in the HOF, right?
@MartialArtisan thank you for the reminder of such a good movie. I need to find a dvd copy & watch it again.
@BrisbaneGreg, yeah it really is a good movie!
Racism is alive and well.
If Seattle had a lineup stacked with Ichiros, they would have won the ws every year.
Definitely some crusty old timer
Crusty, no. Old timer old enough to remember he didn’t help our team win anything, and felt he was over rated? Yes.
So, you’re the voter aren’t you?
10 time GG, 10 time AS, MVP, ROY, 2 time batting champion, and most hits in a season in the history of baseball. Not overrated at all. Also, was best player on team that won 116 games.
He wasn’t, quite. That was Bret Boone’s career year, when Boone played GG-caliber defense at an up the middle position while putting up a 153 OPS+.
That’s against Ichiro’s 126 OPS+. Ichiro did win the GG but by the defensive numbers of the day he contributed 1.0 dWAR vs. 1.7 dWAR for Boone.
It’s close, but fairly clear in favor of Bret.
Thank you, very much!! Boonie…
well, Ichiro won the batting title and was MVP of the league that year.
Probably same guy that didnt vote for Griffey Jr
or Jeter
Probably the guy who realized that while Ichiro had a slightly better 10yr peak over Andruw Jones, Jones had the better career after said 10yr peak.
Just my assumption.
what about his other 9 votes?
Where is this from?
Fair point, though it’s close. 4.7 bWAR for Andruw in 6 seasons, 5.1 bWAR over 9 years for Itchy.
Andruw also had the better peak in his best 7 seasons: 46.7 to 43.7.
also, its not MLB HOF. Its baseball HOF. That includes his 8 years in Japan where he was the best player there before coming to MLB. Also, Ichiro had more batting titles, MVPs, more AS, well over 1000 more hits, and same amount of GGs than Jones. Very arguable that Jones had a better career.
Maybe the voter’s brother / father fought in WW2?
Some dummy who probably did vote for a failed starting pitcher when that guy was the only unanimous guy. Which is a disgrace that a failed starter is the only unanimous.
maybe that guy did not like Japanese
Wagner!! Finally
Hall of Not 2 Shabby!
Pete Rose officially served his “life” ban. Can we put him in now?
It’s not a lifetime ban. It’s a permanent ban.
Pedo Pete doesn’t belong anywhere near the hall.
The statutory rape allegations are likely to keep Pete Rose out for several more decades.
Voters are so corny to not unanimously induct Ichiro
Corny minimizes the insult.
Voter is so corny to not unanimously induct Ichiro
The ahole who didn’t vote for ichiro should be banned from ever voting again. Which old fart was it?
Here’s the scary part: it could have been a younger voter. Don’t assume age. More than likely an older one, but you never know.
I agree. There should have been about 50 unanimous selections by now. I’m sure we could all think of 50 more too. It’s makes it all such a joke.
If they did, they should be banned from voting ever again.
Andruw deserves in too.
Dude threw his wife down a flight of stairs on Christmas Day.
@tom wait. What? I never heard anything about that.
si.com/mlb/andruw-jones-baseball-hall-of-fame-case…
Whose the self-serving jerk who didn’t vote for ichiro ?
Probably the same one who didn’t vote for Jeter.
“who’s”
Good class. Ichiru is slam dunk.
Hall of fame is the biggest waste of time. its a bunch of overweight, outdated, white dudes who still care about wins and batting average. And then you a metal plate in a room in a building in update New York, that has nothing to do other than look at cleats that dukes from the 1800s wore when baseball gloves had no webbing.
A bunch of overweight white dudes? I guess CC Sabathia has been using Sammy Sosa’s dermatologist.
I think he was talking about the people who vote
I know, I just couldn’t resist.
I love me some CC, what a gamer.
The voting pool is changing, as writers change. I know one of the Seattle voters is an overweight Japanese guy. Other cities probably have overweight Hispanics and overweight Black BBWAA writers. There’s probably a few overweight women too!!
The voting pool is a reflection of the gene pool….hence, the overweight moron that just entered the Oval Office. These are the voters that should concern everyone, not a bunch of baseball writers.
@el chapo, Im not saying this about you, just a general statement that seems somewhat relevant to your post. That said, if you are an adult and the Hall of Fame bothers you in any way then that’s more of a you problem then a Hall of Fame problem. It’s a museum, no different than art or history museums across the country other than the fact that it’s focus is baseball. Now as a kid going to see Cooperstown about 30+ years ago, it greatly expanded my knowledge and appreciation of baseball beyond the limits of my favorite team. So it does serve a purpose and it is relevant to the game. But if player A getting in or player B not being in causes anyone to get angry or upset then they need to grow up.
Which dopey writer is gatekeeping the 100% vote?
One who deserves to be charged with a capital crime.
Jeff Kent should be in.
Most HR’s by a second baseman.
Teh HRZZZ.!1!1!
Sigh. Another deranged Alonso fan, no doubt.
First, revoke the credentials of whoever didn’t vote for Ichiro. And second, hooray for Wagner! He was always fun to watch in the Dome and later MMP.
Who was the one no.
Where’s Pedroia
Pedroia should have gotten above 20 percent. No ORDINARY injury took out his career
There’s alot of other guys that need to get in then if he’s in. Tulo, Nomar, Cesar Cedeno, Mattingly, just to name a few
Ichiro was incredible. One of my all time favorite players.
Wagner and Rivera have WHIPs .002 apart.
CC was a horse and super active in the community.
All are great additions to the Hall.
Congrats to all three, well-deserved by all accounts. The one voter that didn’t vote for Ichiro must think they’re edgy and cool…
More likely they are old and crotchety.
One person not voting for Ichiro is such an odd thing to get upset about.
Thank you to that one voter. Ichiro was not worthy of being unanimously voted in.
If Maddux can’t, no one should.
Not to mention Mays and Aaron.
Maddux, as a successful starter, is ineligible for unanimous vote. So are 500 HR guys like Aaron, or 3,000 hit guys like. Need to be a failed starter, who throws one pitch, then unanimity.
Maybe we can get a pinch runner in there at 100% one of these days.
Dying for someone to pay attention to you? Ok,
this is your third post with your moronic “failed starter”reference. Let’s not forget Babe Ruth, failed starter. Cal Ripken pitched poorly in high school, another failed starter. Throw them all out.
@Fat Lever: Babe Ruth was an exceptional starting pitcher
NO.
You need to be a RELIEVER to even be eligible for unanimous vote.
Agreed idk why everyone is freaking out.
Haha always funny to see people that are obviously on the wrong side of something hold it up as badge of honor. 99.7% of the voters disagree with you and likely that percentage of fans too, maybe you and the voter are just stupid?
All good choices
Who is that one a-hole that didn’t vote for Ichoro? I want names!!
It is reported. That famous dude.
The one person who didn’t vote for Ichiro should lose his vote.
Lmao at the person who doesn’t think Ichiro is a hall or famer. How can somebody so clueless get a vote.
Number 52 jersey retirement ceremony incoming……
Congrats to Big CC, well deserved!
No it’s not.
The one voter that didn’t vote for Ichiro should have their vote removed for never having watched baseball.
I’m happy everyone here is upset at the non unanimous selection by the nimrod voter. He was my favorite player.
Most of us aren’t remotely upset.
Keep in mind no one gets upset with you when you make foolish comments. Why would they?
Well not only were you wrong once in your air head response, you were wrong twice. You almost had no room to be wrong that many times but you succeeded.
Beltran probably gets in next year. Seems the voters feel like they punished him enough.
@VegasMoved I don’t know how much weight to give the cheating, but putting that aside for the moment, Beltran on on-field merit alone has a career that should put him in the Hall of Fame just for what he did as of the end of his age 34 season.
At 35 and after he had 3-4 seasons as a competent regular. An easy HOFer who then gets the cheating deduction mixed into his record and into the voting.
Not going to lie, I would love to hear that one voters reason not to vote for Ichiro just so I could get a good laugh out of it. Regardless, very well deserved all around.
It’s long been an unspoken creed of the BWAA to never allow anyone to be unanimous. So this dude, like it or not, was just adhering to their custom, as archaic as it may seem.
Not sure why everyone so up in arms about it. It’s not like his plaque will have an asterisk or anything. The HOF is already such a broken, toxic system as it is.
Im guessing it’s just someone who wanted to help a fringe player stay on the ballot.
Beltran should be in.
A Trash can, yes he should be in one….
Long overdue for Wagner. Glad he didn’t wait as long or longer than Lee Smith
What scrub writer didn’t vote for Ichiro?
No Alex, no Manny, no Pettitte. No sense…just pettiness. No way Ortiz wasn’t on something to go from a backup to a star. But somehow that’s OK. They’ll all eventually get in when sanity returns.
They don’t belong. There are 3 voting instructions that exclude them.
None of the voting specifications exclude Pettitte.
He should be in.
I really liked Pettitte. He seemed to be a genuinely good guy and his stats were very good. He admitted to using PED. If a voter is not allowing others in for PED, they cannot allow a guy that admitted using them in.
Vinz, he admitted that he used PED. Then he threw his buddy under the bus.
1. Who TF didn’t vote for Ichiro!?
2. Why is Andruw still not in??
Terrible. None of them should be in the hall. More watering down of the hall.
393-1 for ichiro. Whose the 1 idiot?
Yankees beat writer who doesn’t want another unanimous vote besides Mariano Rivera.
“who’s”
I see why you might think there was one idiot among the 394. I have listened to many of them talk about their votes and who they voted for in the past and why they might not vote for anyone, might vote for a guy this year and not next year etc. Where i believe you are wrong is thinking there is one idiot, when in fact there are many, and this one is just their king.
Not going to be a popular position and will say it anyway. Sabathia would not be going into the HOF if he had not pitched all those years for the Yankees. His career ERA, his career WAR, and his peak 7 year WAR just don’t cut the mustard. He wasn’t close either. He missed by more than 15% on all 3. His ERA ranks 125th of starters with 2000 IP. 2nd to last of starting pitchers in the HOF. Only Jack Morris has a lower ERA. He was very good, not great.
Popular or not, if you’re discussing WAR he has to be considered an appropriate candidate. He’s immediately above two HOF pitchers in Juan Marichal and Don Drysdale…. John Smoltz and Roy Halladay….
In fact, he slots in at exactly the 50th percentile of HOF pitchers from what I can tell. That makes him the prime example of what is considered HOF.
However, if your argument is that none of those guys deserve to be in, that’s a different discussion and I won’t fault you for your opinion because the threshold is subjective.
YC,
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (55th): 62.3 career WAR | 39.4 7yr-peak WAR | 50.8 JAWS | 50.8 S-JAWS | 3.8 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66): 73.0 career WAR | 49.9 7yr-peak WAR | 61.5 JAWS | 56.9 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162
Don Drysdale – 67.1 WAR
Juan Marichal – 62.9 WAR
John Smoltz – 69.0 WAR
Roy Halladay – 64.2 WAR
CC Sabathia – 62.3 WAR
Halladay and Marichal did that in 3 fewer seasons.
Sabathia ranks 55th among of 66 SP in the HOF and only Jack Morris was worse in WAR or ERA since 1947.
CC has a higher WAR than Rivera but lower than Frank Tanana, and Tommy John, and Zack Greinke.
Fair to say CC is more durability, “solid”, and long career, than greatness. I am fine with him in or out a borderline guy.
Rivera is not a starting pitcher.
Tanana, Tommy John, and Greinke are not in the HOF.
Greinke will be in when he is eligible. His 77.5 WAR is much higher than CC’s 62.3 and higher than 40 of the 66 starting pitchers in the HOF today. .
Outinleft
Tell me why CC deserves to get in and Tommy John does not
I think Greinke will get in but it will be closer than it should be
Sabathia doesn’t deserve to get in.
Then we agree. I don’t think Sabathia or Wagner were horrible selections, but I would have left both off my ballot. Were it not for the alleged domestic violence, I would have voted for Andruw Jones, but I think I would have left him off as well as a borderline guy in the first place
3 more HOF’ers added to my seen live list. Congrats guys.
Ichiro, the true hit king now has another thing that Pete Rose will never have.
Pete Rose doesn’t care, at the moment.
Wonder if Beltran got punished for his involvement with the Astros scandal because as a player, he’s a shoo-in.
Probably. I think he’ll be in next year.
Personally, I don’t view CC as a hall of famer, and think he benefited greatly from playing in the Big Apple and the current state of starting pitcher’s durability.
I mean, it’s not a bad thing to reward modern day starting pitchers who do stay durable. They’re throwing fewer pitches, but much, much faster than their counterparts from previous generations.
I’d like to hear the argument seriously debated by a small HOF voter who values fame less than he does performance that, had Ichiro retired at 40, he was a clear HOFer albeit just in given his 2,844 hits, career, would have meant not getting the 3,000 hit bonus.
“The negative value Ichiro accumulated from 41 to 45 is just enough to push him out of the Hall.”
It’s an interesting debate, where the focus is on whether a player can play himself out of the Hall with enough negative performance or enough weak years.
CC Sabathia is a similar case, where his last 7 seasons drag down his career ERA+. He already had a small peak by HOF standards, 39.4 bWAR in his best 7 seasons vs 49.9 bWAR for the average HOF pitcher.
Outside of that modest peak, in his first 5 years he was a hair above average for 4 of those years with only 1 really good year in the 5. His last 7 seasons, 3 were bad, 1 was poor, and the remaining 3 summed to give him a combined 4.31 FIP.
A 116 ERA+ over 3,577 IP, a poor 4.28 ERA in 130 postseason innings… it’s easy to see the argument for Sabathia as close but definitely out.
Sabathia induction should open the door to committee inductions for former pitchers. Dave Stieb, David Cone and Kevin Brown come to mind. Tiant should already be in. CC should not be in IMO.
2026 is probably going to be the exact same. Ryan Braun is the only suitable newcomer, but I doubt he gets in.
With that said, Andruw Jones and Carlos Beltran should have a great chance next year.
Now that the bar has been set lower you are correct. Beltran and Jones will have a good chance.
Who’s the self serving, hoping to become famous, irrelevant , sorry excuse for a writer that didn’t vote for Ichiro?
394 ballots submitted and one person decides to not vote for a first ballot hall of famer. Need to take away that person’s voting rights and give it to someone who recognizes a hall of famer when they see one.
Would love to hear Ichiro speak English for once
Yeah, that’s a prerequisite to being a great player and getting into the Hall. Cripes.
Nobody said it was.
Watch this video of his Mariners HOF induction speech. youtube.com/watch?v=fgossI-oZII&ab_channel=Se…
Yea that’s pre-written though. I want to see a conversational style interview.
The HOF induction won’t be one.
Congratulations to all! Ichiro was always incredible to watch. CC was such a good Yankee. Wasn’t a Wagner guy, but obviously deserved..
All very deserving in my opinion. Congrats!!
The sad thing as a writer is that by failing to vote for a guy because you think he shouldn’t be enshrined in his first year is that you lose the chance to EVER vote for him. That guy will never be able to write his name on a HOF ballot.
Just a reminder that Ichiro’s HOF speech will likely be legendary. If you doubt that, go watch his 2022 acceptance speech for the Mariners HOF on YouTube. This is the man who made the largest player donation ever to the Negro Leagues Museum in Kansas City. He is an absolute student of the entire game, and he’s going to want his speech to be perfect.
No cheaters. Beltran getting in is a huge shame.
Yeah, Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry, they never cheated. Everyone who is in is angelic. Like Cap Anson. Beltran is clearly the worst of the worst.
That’s great that they are in.
Shameful that Omar still isn’t in the Hall of Fame. Might as well call it the Hall of Mediocre.
Zero WAR player for half his career.
is this chase utley’s 2nd yr on the ballot? he’s alredy up to 40%
he’s nowhere close to being a HOFer
and i personally hate his guts as a met fan but thats neither here nor there
Utley is qualified. 12th highest WAR for a 2B in history. 8 of the 20 HOF 2B have a lower WAR. His 7 year peak is higher than 12 of those 20 HOF 2B. . If you just want to talk offense, his 117 career OPS+ and 131 seven year peak OPS+ both rank 8th since 1947
Jeff kent was twice the 2nd bsman utley was & he didnt get elected
Kent’s 55.4 WAR is the 22nd highest. 20 2B are in the HOF.
Utley’s 64.5 WAR is the 12th highest and higher than 8 2B that are in the HOF.
The answer is an obvious no if Kent was a better 2B than Utley.
Do you know who SHOULD be in the HOF? Lou Whitaker who has a 75.1 WAR.
Should have shaved the stache.
Whether utley gets in the baseball hall of fame or not i dont know, i think he does get there eventually. I also see why his population soured in a lot of fans opinion, that drop kick he delivered broke another players leg. Who knows, maybe he gets in the wrestling hall of fame first.
There’s players out that deserve to be in and players in that shouldn’t be. Popularity contests are all about timing.
As Harold Baines knows.
and Curt Schilling. His baseball merit is much more worthy than CC’s. Unfortunately, it’s not just about what you do on the field.
The guy who didn’t vote for Ichiro should be eliminated from the voter list. He is a moron for wanting to be different and also wrong. Also, the dodo who only voted for two players. Who is he to cheat deserving players out of the Hall. He needs to be eliminated also
Tons of guys didn’t get in unanimously so I guess that’s the mountain this writer is dying on. I get it, but it’s kinda petty / sour grapes
They may be one and the same person.
What does this have to do with the Dodgers? Focus on the important things MLBTR!
Ichiro is deserving…Wagner and CC not so much.
Have you actually studied Wagnerr’s record and compared it to others ?
Congrats to all those elected today. Definitely a life changing day for each of them.
I never considered going to HOF Induction ceremony, but may do it just to see my childhood hero, Dave Parker, finally get his just due.
Is it okay to be enthusiastic, committed, and fanatical about baseball but not get very excited about the Baseball HOF or it’s annual controversies/machinations?? I mean it’s just kinda meh to me. I hope I can still be in the club.
Totally fine. I do not get excited about the draft nor prospect hype. I don’t care for the ASG nor its voting. I did excited about the WBC though and throuroughly enjoyed it.
Watched Billy pitch a bunch of times when he was in college, 1992.
Ichiro is a no brainer. Wagner should be in. I like Sabathia but he isn’t a HOFer. He only had one 20 win season and his career ERA is 3.74.
He may have the highest ERA for all starting pitchers in the hall. It would replace Jesse Haines 3.64 ERA
replace baseball-reference.com/players/h/haineje01.shtml
Goose, 2nd highest since. Jack Morris is higher.
He pitched in the era of a 73 HR/season and the 61HR/season record get obliterated by 3 players.. more than once… 3.74 for his era is like 2.74 in todays game where getting 50 HR is front page/site news….
More like 1/2 a run lower ERA and that is being very generous
Sabathia played from 2001-2019. Bonds peak of PED enhanced HR hitting was Sabathia’s rookie season in 2001. The McGwire/Sosa PED enhanced HR spectacle was in 1998. PED testing with penalties began in 2004 after the survey testing in 2003.
Sabathia’s ERA ranks 76th among qualified starters during his career, tied with Dough Fister. His 116 ERA+, a stat which is adjusted to the competition and the parks played in each season, is just 16% better than average.
Compare that to Kershaw’s 2.54 ERA and 156 ERA+ in his 17 year career and Verlander’s 3.30 ERA and 129 ERA+ in his 19 year career that started just a few years after Sabathia. .
Sabathia first ballot is a joke, while Jones still waits
How much deferred money?
The writers are biased and corrupt ..left Schilling out but vote in CC first ballot..what a crock
Schilling has a better case but both dont belong.
Ichiro could have hit 25 HR/season & would win every HR Derby he entered. I worked for Mariners in 2004 and watched him hit 6-10 consecutive HR off the Hit it Here Cafe EVERY GAME during BP. Not barely clearing, I’m talking missles off the Cafe. He stated once he could hit more HR, but it would lower his AVG and hit total too much… I’d take .320, 25 HR, *100 RBI’s (*if in 3-5 hole) 45 SB for a decade over what he did, M’s needed pop back then too… IMO.. Crazy this dude got to 3000 AFTER leading Japan league like 7 times in hitting. UNREAL
That’s what I heard about his teammates saying about him. And that he has a foul mouth and can speak English fairly well. Tony Gywnn and Wade Boggs were the same with the power.
Cy Young only received 49% on his initial ballot. I hope those writers are enjoying their day.
I understand Ichiro and Wagner getting in. Two of the best to play their positions ever. I wonder who the idiot was that didn’t vote for Ichiro and I wonder WTH took so long on Wagner.
What I don’t understand how Sabathia could get in at all, let alone on the first ballot. Only a handful of starting pitchers have gotten in with a higher ERA and only one ever in the integrated ERA. His WAR is 10.7 below the average HOF starting pitcher and again only one in the integrated era has had a worse WAR. Even his 7 year peak is not close to HOF standards and only one in the integrated era has ever gotten in with a worse 7 year peak WAR.
Please explain how he belongs.
If you are wondering, the one guy that is worse than Sabathia that is in the HOF is Jack Morris. He doesn’t belong either in my opinion.
All I can offer is this: averages wouldn’t exist without the low end
If you are grading on a scale of 1 to 67 with 67 being the highest, Sabathia is a 2.
The person that didn’t vote for Ichiro should lose their right to vote in Hall of Fame elections.
Who is the ONE that didn’t vote for Ichiro??? Shame… Shame… Shame…
congratulations cc! great pitcher, great teammate, great human
as a yankee fan i guess i’m happy that mariano is still the only unanimous vote but seriously what is up with that one voter?
Lou Whitaker not being in is a travesty.
Yup… Kenny Lofton too
Ichiro – 4,367 professional hits
The REAL all-time hit leader
I was wondering why someone didn’t vote for Ichiro. I looked up his numbers and he actually wasn’t that good. His career OPS is just terrible really. I thought he was much better.
So Ichiro wasn’t good because he didn’t hit for power? That’s asinine.
Even if the one idiot beat writer didnt like Ichiro’s stats, Ichiro was much more than a player for the Mariners. At one point he was like an ambassador for the game, especially among kids and the Japanese.
Dam, even the Tampa/KC/Chicago beat writers gave Zobrist no respect at all.
accomplished very little overall? Are you dumb? A Career .311 hitter with 500 SB and 10 straight seasons of 200 or more hits? Baseball is more than home runs you know
Sabathia continues the trend of the hall of very good……not even close.
3000 ks and 200 wins. Hard to keep him out.
Other than that half a season in Milwaukee agree he was never the best pitcher in the League.
I’m happy Billy Wagner finally got in. As long as he’s in and still alive and healthy, it doesn’t matter when to me.
Now Tommy John and Mickey Lolich
Great HOF class this year. All 5 players are very deserving. Would have liked to see Andruw Jones and Carlos Beltran make it too, but they should make it in the next two years with plenty of time to spare. Really happy gor Billy Wagner in his 10th and final year. He really deserved to be in by the BWAA and they finally made it happen. Congrats to all electees.
I imagine Andruw Jones makes it in there at some point, you don’t win 10(?) consecutive gold gloves with damn good offensive production as well and not get super serious consideration. It’s just odd that once he turned 30 when he should be in his absolute prime he kind of fell off the deep end. By comparison, Beltran offensively should have his ticket punched but you do wonder if the old heads that vote on such things hold that sign stealing scandal against him and try to keep him out.
Jones started when he was 18 so after 12 years that musta took its toll plus the lack of adjustments
Deserving choices…three of the best who left us good memories,
Whoever didnt vote for Ichiro needs to never be allowed to vote again
Am I the only one who thinks it’s hypocritical that writers, who awarded Bonds, Clemens, ARod etc MVPs and Cy Young’s now won’t vote for them for the Hall of Fame?
It’s not like there was not suspicion of steroid use while they were all playing, breaking record, and earning awards (that were voted on by writers) where was their holier than thou attitude then?
No. It is also very likely way more guys did steroids in that era than “the ones that were named”.
Exactly. Steroids do not make you “big” unless you eat. There are plenty of steroids that also act as drying agents vs steroids like D-bol that make you retain heavy water.
Look at Ryan Braun, dude wasn’t the hulk
Jose Canseco claims in his book, Juiced, that 75% of players were using steroids in the ’90s (If I remember correctly).. People associate jacked dudes like Bonds or McGwire with PED use, but they were big because they were lifting. There were probably a ton of guys using PEDs who weren’t lifting and arose no suspicion
Finally great to see Billy Wagner get in. He was long overdue. Since his numbers were as good as Lee Smith and Bruce Sutter.
Wagner was a flamethrower before it became the norm
Boy this is a tough one for me… watching many a game did I see a player and think he’s one of a kind… dominant… Jr/ Mariano/ Michael Jack/ Brett/ Boggs/ Bench..etc… ichiro yes.. other two not some much( Wagner possibly) congratulations to all who did get in… excuse me now while I chase a kid off my frozen lawn…
ichiro one of my all time favorites!!!!!
Either no one should ever be unanimous or there should be a lot more players unanimous. Ichiro is easily as deserving as Mo. Even the 2001 Diamondbacks and 2004 Red Sox would be fine with Mo being unanimous. CC Bean on the first ballot is agin questionable because there are definitely better players who weren’t first ballot. The sins of the past sometimes get corrected in the present. Wagner? I’m kind of on the fence but there’s no disputing that he was an elite closer. So good for them all, well deserved.
whoever thought that Ichiro didn’t belong in the hall should just never be allowed to vote again.
CC had a career ERA 3..74 and was an alcoholic 6.2 career WAR – Big Schill `~better in just about with career WAR about a point and a half higher – and 3 World champions – CC 18th in career strikeouts.- no comparison
Why are the voters only writers? Why don’t local/national announcers and color commentators get a vote?
That is how we have always done it. Blah blah blah We hate change
Looking at CC’s stats….crazy 2008 season he gave up 27 ER in his first four starts and finished with 35 starts and 2.70 ERA, 9 CG (6 SO)
Billy Wagner: Great pitching stats. Not a HOFer.