The Giants' offseason got out to a roaring start and has quieted to something of a murmur. Even before the winter truly began and they formally announced a changing of the guard in baseball operations, then-advisor and now-president of baseball ops Buster Posey at least had a hand in (if he wasn't firmly driving the bus) extending Matt Chapman for six years and $151MM. At his introductory press conference, Posey offered up the following quote:
"I think back on some of my earliest memories walking into a spring training clubhouse -- walking in and seeing Willie Mays sitting at a table with Willie McCovey and Gaylord Perry, Juan Marichal. The next week it's Will Clark, Jeff Kent, Barry Bonds. I always appreciated -- and I don't think I appreciated it as much when I was a younger player -- but as time went on, I appreciated what that meant not only to the community but to us as players. There's a standard and expectation for being a San Francisco Giant. It's a privilege to try to go out on the field and hold ourselves accountable to that standard. You can go more toward my era, with [Matt] Cain and [Tim] Lincecum, [Madison] Bumgarner and [Brandon] Crawford and [Brandon] Belt. What I came to realize is sure, all those guys were great players and part of great teams, but what those guys ultimately meant to the San Francisco Giants fanbase and the community was memories. And all of us that are lucky enough to get to be involved in baseball in whatever capacity, understand that not only is it the greatest game in the world, but we're in the memory-making business. It's ultimately entertainment. It's an opportunity for grandparents and parents to share memories. It's an opportunity for strangers sitting out in the bleachers to share a great memory that happens at the ballpark and that can be talked about from that time on for the rest of their life, potentially."
Just over a month into the offseason, that mentality appeared to be on full display. Willy Adames put pen to paper on the largest contract the franchise had ever handed out: a seven-year, $182MM contract. The team was tied to marquee free agents like Corbin Burnes and looked into trades for star players like Kyle Tucker and Garrett Crochet, ultimately balking at the notion of including top prospect Bryce Eldridge in a package for either. Still, it was a promising start to a winter after years of the Giants eschewing bids for high-end free agents and generally showing an aversion to long-term commitments.
The vibe surrounding the Giants seems much different just six to seven weeks later. The Giants' most recent move was a cost-saving trade. Posey is now expressing that he's comfortable with the roster as currently constructed.
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Giants look like a 4th place team.
But they could be a 3rd place team in a worse division 🙂
As a Dodger fan I would Ike to the Giants finish ahead of SD.
I would like to see the Giants finish ahead of SD.
That would put LAD in 4th place, sure u want that?
Anyone who doesn’t think LA will win the West is silly in the head.
Who else are they going to overpay for?
Posey is meticulous, methodical, keeps his plans close & deeply cares about the San Francisco Giants. He won’t be pressured into signing FAs or making trades that aren’t beneficial to the Giants.
Yes, it would be great if Posey acquired 1 or more players before the 2025 season begins. If the right FA or trade fits I’m sure Posey will continue to further improve the Giants.
I definitely trust Posey’s plan more than I ever trusted Zaidi (who never had a plan). Posey might be a first time POB but it appears he’s not going to be taken advantage of.
“Zaidi Who never had a plan”. It’s almost as if you’re suggesting that throwing things against a wall to see what sticks, is not a “plan”.
@red
Genuinely curious what Posey has specifically done that has instilled so much confidence in you without a track record to go off of. As fellow Giants fans, I’ve seen you post a lot. And it seems like if FZ was in charge right now and made the exact moves Posey has (that is: FZ is the scapegoat instead of Posey) you would be bemoaning that the team still has holes and FZ has no plan, and probably loathe the Verlander signing.
Forgive me for speculating, as I’d love for you to prove me wrong and give me quality reasons why I too should be more optimistic this offseason that in FZ was in charge, even though the team would’ve likely made very similar moves.
FZ never had the cojones to strike big ala Chapman (who was drifting away from signing until buster stepped in) and Adames. The Giants aren’t giving up Eldridge or probably Whisenhunt, but if, say, Chris Getz would come down off his cloud, I could see the Giants moving 3-4 solid prospects for Luis Robert Jr. and the White Sox would be far better off.
I’m giving Buster a whole lot more time to prove me wrong, and I see NO similarity between him and Farhan.
I’ve said a few times before, Luis Matos is a good starting point for Roberts. Giants would have to give up more but Matos would do well in Chicago; his power would play better there than SF. I’d include Tibbs and Choate and call it good. Arteaga as a throw in.
@pete
I’m more bullish on FZ than most, but only because I felt he (1) wasn’t nearly as bad as people like redwolf like to pretend, and (2) I think he was held back by mixed messages by ownership (go all in on Ohtani, but take it easy on signing all those other big names out there). I think Buster will fall into the latter trap at some point as well.
I can see where you are coming from, but it’s far too speculative. From what I understand, FZ was in the hospital trying to close to deal with Chappy. It’s highly possible FZ was trying to get too cute with the deal and Buster was more to the point. If that’s the case, then point for Buster. But Chappy loves SF and wasn’t going anywhere.
Likewise with Adames, I can see where that mindset might come in, but it’s purely speculative and not very accurate. The Giants did well in signing guys with a lot of competition. Even though they didn’t have the greatest tenures, Conforto and Manaea had plenty of suitors. Rodon was pretty high up there as well. You could argue Snelly (and Chappy before he signed) fell into their lap, but what was stopping other teams from making similar deals?
I might buy that FZ gets a little too cute with contracts, whereas Buster is more to the point (it seems storytelling about the legacy of the Giants is his move), although, my only evidence is what I get to learn through reporters.
I think you’d have to go higher than that for the Giants to get Robert, and I wouldn’t just “throw in” Arteaga. Mason Black, Matos plus one more up-play prospect (maybe Luciano) would be in the ballpark IMO.
disadvantage — We don’t know if the Owners held Farhan back, but we DO know that the Giants Farm System today and for the past 6 years has been graded poorly (currently #30 out of 30 teams by most experts. Even Keith Law says they’re #28).
I know Farhan was handed an awful fram system but he made very little leeway in his 6 years, despite many of us Giant fans happy to see Bailey, Ramos and Fitzgerald as showing signs of life. Let’s see what happens this year, but I’m glad FZ is out and Buster is in.
“3-4 solid prospects for Luis Roberts Jr” sounds disastrous.
Hard to say more without diving in to what “solid” means, but that price tag seems to assume Robert’s 2024 was a one-off, when according to Statcast and others the problems extended to his peripherals and he even got lucky just to get to a .224 BA.
Paying a very high cost that banks on a 27 yo returning to form, in fact assumes he will based on the cost in prospects HAS to be ill-advised. Robert also had a weak 2022, making it to of his last 3 seasons where he isn’t worth close to the ask.
Granted the two buyouts add value, in that if he tanks the Giants can bail on the last year (I doubt they’d drop him for 2026 short of catastrophic injury) and save themselves $18m, but with 3/55m left, otherwise, the amount of surplus value left isn’t all that high. Just being worth $55m in a three year FA deal involves the player putting up roughly 7 WAR, or a little more than what Robert did in 2022 and 2024 pro rated to three seasons.
Not saying he doesn’t have upside. 2020, 2021, and 2023 showed that, but to be a sizable chunk of the farm that he’s pretty much at his 2023 level from here on out—that’s dangerous.
Based the history of his tenure, Zaidi would have pursued Soto to the bitter end only to lose out again. Meanwhile Adames would have signed somewhere else and we end up with Fitz and Wisely at short and 2B while Kim finishes his rehab, however long that takes.
The difference also could be that FZ didn’t like giving out long term deals to players that weren’t super stars that were around 30 or older.
Paying players to perform in their prime past age 33-34 don’t usually age well. I think FZ likely had a hard time relating with players. Seems to be a bit of an odd ball. The kind of guy that thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.
Though giants fans biggest complaints that I’ve seen is he was brought in to make the farm great. Meanwhile they made it to about the mid spot then fell back down into the toilet. If the giants had like 7 top or anything close top 100 guys they would have had more patience.
Posey generally has way more respect out of the gate because he is a giant legend.
Any evidence to support your beliefs in Posey?
Steve,
Unless I’m mistaken you failed to mention signing another QO player will cost the Giants an additional TWO DRAFT PICKS. They already lost 2 after signing Adames. SFG was just rated the #26 farm system by Keith Law. Can they afford to lose two more picks?
Concerning their division, the Dodgers are clearly on top and the DBacks look like a strong 2nd team. Do the Giants throw good money after bad?
The Giants can compete as of right now. They should get much better production out of SS, 2B and LF from the start of the season. The rotation is deep albeit suspect but there are plenty of young arms to dream on. This team just needs to stay healthier than last year and it should contend for a Wild Card.
One last item worth mentioning: Giants wouldn’t have exceeded the Lux tax if not for signing Soler. If SFG simply kept Bart as their 2nd catcher and had anyone of Villar/Schmitt/Sabol on the team for DH duties they’d be in a better position this year; we’d still have Bart and no worries about the backup catcher. Farhan tried saving his job and in doing so screwed the team over with salary mismanagement. One last gift as he left town. Let the FZ minions come to his defense.
Thanks for the article Steve!
I was often a Farhan defender. He revitalized the team instantly when he took over by turning the farm system from bottom 5 to top 10 and getting several good players for nothing. His cutting edge coaching staff immediately turned around the careers of Posey, Belt, Crawford and Gausman. Their 107 wins in 2021 was nuts.
However halfway through 2024 it was very apparent he had no cohesive plan to move forward as so many of his free agent signings were complete bombs (Conforto, Soler, Stripling, DeSclafani (second conract), Woods (second contract), Pederson (qualifying offer) And bad trades, Haniger, Pollack, Jackson etc.. And most of his drafts did not pan out (2020 and Patrick Bailey not withstanding).
At least he didn’t trade Zack Wheeler for 3 months of of an injured Beltran.
Zaidi was a mad scientist, and many of his experiments were fantastic, especially turning around careers of several players. But ultimately it didn’t work out. I for one appreciate what he tried to do. It didn’t work – move on – and I’m excited about Posey’s approach. Which seems to be a little more free wheeling.
I still think Alonso would be a fit at DH
WHAT! Posey, Belt and Crawford’s careers were already established long before Farhan was hired, dude, you are in the wrong era. Gausman did have a good year with the giants, so why did Farhan let him walk without even making him an offer?
Why did FZ let Gausman walk? He has had a very up and down career, and that was mirrored in his 2021 season – 1.73 ERA vs 4.42, about 40 fewer innings but only 10 fewer walks and 4 more HR and 22 more hits allowed, etc.
With hindsight, obviously the Giants would have been a better team with him. But could you imagine the backlash if FZ paid him 5yrs/$110mm only for the second half Gausman to show up?? It would’ve been worse than the backlash he did receive by fans using the benefit of hindsight for not paying him.
Uhhhh… all three Belt, Crawford and Posey were coming off disastrous seasons in 2019 with looming multi year contracts supposedly weighing the team down. Crawford and Belt posted career years in 2021 and Posey was the comeback player of the year.
Farhan let Gausman walk without making an offer for one reason only. he did not believe in giving long term contracts to pitchers!
let’s just say everything you said is true. how did Farhan have anything to do with the numbers? these guys were veterans and Farhan was not their batting coach. he personally had no influence on there stats whatsoever.
@gf
That may be true, but even if he were to give out a five year deal, Gausman wouldn’t have been a great bet. He had a very up and down career, and that was reflected in 2021. There was a good a chance his contract went as well as it has (again with the benefit of hindsight), as it could’ve gone the route of Patrick Corbin.
Wilmer, for me, it was the 2023 trade deadline. He promised being aggressive at the deadline then gaslit the fans by saying the prices were too high; the resulting trades other teams made said otherwise.
I always gave him the benefit of the doubt because I wanted to believe he was a good steward of the team. He did some good things to be sure. Not resigning Gausman after 2021, in retrospect, was the beginning of the end.
And for those so called fans who keep saying let it go and stop talking about FZ, can’t. He left the team in some disarray and Posey is picking up the pieces. AND, I know Posey was hired to quell the ire of fans like me. Genius move. And I think it will work in the team’s favor too.
I agree about the 2023 trade deadline. So true. Another big mistake Farhan repeatedly made is year after year he promised to be aggresive signing free agents and always played bridesmaid to players it was quite obvious would sign elsewhere. At least he didn’t give 350mil to Correa or resign Rodon.
But yeah, good points all of them.
@dave
I feel like FZ’s worst quality was he couldn’t shut his mouth. Like aying the team was going to get younger and more athletic… when the market wasn’t exactly blooming with young, athletic talent. Or the trade deadline comments you had mentioned.
Wilmer the Thriller —
In no universe did Farhan take the Giants “farm system from bottom 5 to top 10.”
If you’re commenting get at least a little closer to the facts.
Alonso won’t sign as a DH unless you pay him the 27-28 AAV that he craves and for 5 years.
If I said you need a really good LHH to go with all your RHH you would say Eldridge! Well, Wilmer, he’s another first baseman.
Agree with everything except Bart. He was never going to turn things around as a Giant. He was spooked from the get go and couldn’t shake the aura of Posey. They gave him every chance, but every AB he’d watch the count get to 0-2, then walk away dejected with his head down as he struck out again. It was so depressing to watch. I consider dumping Joey the best move of Zaidi’s dreadful tenure.
Not signing Tom Murphy and holding on to Bart was the move. They let Bart go for nothing. It was Zaidi’s worst move. So yeah. I disagree.
Totally agree about Murphy but Bart was never going to in SF what he did in PA.
@tellit
I can’t say I agree there was no shot at Joey turning it around (although you do make a good argument), but him walking and becoming a useful player certainly wasn’t the horrendous move most FZ haters wanted it to be.
I can’t argue. But he did look better during spring training. And if ever there was a time for Bart to develop a “phantom” injury it was early in the 2024 season. Not long after SFG dumped Bart we lost Murphy for the season.
Bart never should have played the 2020 season. He was rushed after Buster sat out the season. Giants should have signed a minor league catcher instead and delayed starting his MLB clock. Remember, Bart had 2 hand injuries in the minors and he needed more seasoning on the farm.
I think the jury’s still out on Bart, TBH. He had one nice season in Pittsburgh. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if all the problems that plagued him in SF reemerge this season.
Incredible that the Giants signed Soler for 3/42m… but that the Braves then took him off the Giants’ hands? Surreal. AA just doesn’t make mistakes like that.
Thanx to LAA, I guess. There was one sucker left in the room, and the Braves found him.
Great read. They should be topping off the team there’s still helpful players in Free Agency, but nah they are good. What??
Posey should be embarrassed to have a major baseball web site call him out. he has hired a lot of generals, but not enough soldiers. to think that the giants are a wildcard contender is a sad belief. we need a power bat in right field and at 1st base/ DH.
What he said at that press conference totally aligns with what he’s done. All those Giant greats were home grown talents, not over-priced risky “free” agents. Posey has taken care of a couple urgent needs via FA but doesn’t want to block playing time and development of the young talent. The Giants have some exciting young players ready to stick. Matos put things together in a big way in winter ball. I’m very excited about letting the home-grown kids play. If it means 4th place, so be it, but I think we’ve got a great shot at second and a Wildcard.
First off the idea that Alonso and the Giants are a match makes no sense. Pete wants to be a NYM and if that doesn’t come to pass THE LAST home ballpark he’d want to play to stop the recent decline in his bat is Oracle Park. They have financial flexibility, makes no sense to piss that away on a bad fit player, With two 6yr offers in hand, Bregman is a worse fit. I like David Robertson as a great fit, however I wonder if he’s got a preferred destination that is being held up by Alonso/Bregman. While starters need spring training, a bullpen vet like Robertson likely does not.
I like the Rogers deal on every level, the $ savings + the addition by subtraction but the reality is the trade market didn’t really get going as there’s still multiple free agents available. As the author points out SF has a bullpen loaded with optionable players. *Touch wood* with better staff health vs 2024 the Giants have quite a bit of depth so if and when the trade market ever opens up we shall see.
The team has no players of any consequence who is out of options, lots of young players with one option whom a new front office I’m sure would like watch/evaluate all spring. Could they upgrade 1B/LF/DH, sure but those are also the easiest positions to get in trade. I take Posey’s comments and we are content to go to Spring with this group however to think they aren’t picking up the phone when other teams call and/or aren’t keeping tabs with agents for players not named Alonso, Bregman, Flaherty, that just isn’t the case.
I’d love Bregman at 2b but losing more draft slots doesn’t make sense.
Yes, Bregman would do fine at 2B. The QO and RH bat does not make him a great fit.
I totally agree on the Alonso comment. Now if they did a short term deal with opt outs then maybe it would be fine. Signing Alonso for 6 years or something seems like a mistake, Mets don’t even want to do that anymore.
I do think the giants should have did what the dbacks did and trade for a guy like Naylor or even signed Walker. Those guys could have been good stop gap type players until their best prospect was up.
Giants are a bit of a weird team to figure out for me. I look at their pitching and think that’s seems like a decent rotation. Then some of them just are so so.
Look at their position players and think…they have some good players but then they struggle to score runs. I actually think they should move some of the fences in.
@Simm Why would you ever, ever give Alonso an opt-out, which in his case is far better described as an “opt-in”?
He was worth a lineup spot in 2024, but at 2.1 fWAR and the negatives everywhere excent the home runs, he was barely worth that.
With continued decline he’ll just use the opt outs to hang around at 23-30m a year, doing his Dave Kingman impression.
He’s the exact opposite of someone you give opt-outs to.
Just one comment to add to the many I agree with here. Dropping Taylor and eating 6 million is a net win. I watched nearly every game last season, and in each game he was either bad or lucky. The 6 mill that he will be paid by the Reds is still an overpay in my book. Buster was tactful in not saying so, after all his twin is still on the roster. I am concerned that they only have one lefty in the pen now and hope another arm can be added in the spring.
I agree and remember that Andrew Chafin is available and can do better than Taylor Rogers at a better price. Perhaps Buster and Zach think Carson Whisenhunt can start his Major League career as a bullpen arm; that’s another lefty. And even RH David Robertson would be a good add.
Pete, my guess from what Posey said is they’re are looking at NRI guys like Joey Lucchesi or Ethan Small as the second lefty.
John Bird —
Right, but but Lucchesi and Small are AAA players and add nothing to the Giants pen. SF needs as many quality players—pitchers and position players—it can muster. Signing the two you mention (and who have been mentioned by beat reporters) is wasting a roster spot IMO.
Pete, this was a quote from Posey in Baggarly’s Athletic article. “It’s the last year of (Taylor’s) deal. It’s a chance for us to get a look at some other arms. We’ve got a lot of guys in camp including a group of interesting non-roster guys. It does create a little more competition (in the bullpen)”.Not saying this is the best path but this is what his thinking is.”
Their usage of Taylor was a step above mop-up role and worse he had reverse splits in 2024 LHH having an OPS of .786. by comparison Ramos’ was .792 & Chapman’s .790. While there’s some bad luck in his stats, his $12M salary + not having any options are a lose lose and sort of like trying hide a Rule 5 player at the back of the bulpen for a full year. Serious kudo’s need to given to the front office for this deal.
The perfect scenario for the SF bullpen is Doval gets straightened out and back as closer working 9th innings and Walker goes back into a high leverage role, he has no platoon splits LH/RH whether he starts clean innings or comes in with guys on base.
I still like David Robertson as a fit, I just wonder how open he is to the west coast, Texas is the furthest west he’s ever played. He lives outside Providence, RI and has 3 kids ages 2-12. He’s likely going to have options on where to play.
Wow, why all the hate for the Giants, Steve? Seems like there are a dozen or more teams doing less than SF. Makes sense for Posey to be cautious. Guess they’re not generating enough copy for the site.
The real problem is there is no one out there who moves the needle for the cost. Can’t see Alonzo signing there. Obviously Bregman isn’t a fit. So who’s left? Alex Verdugo? Yeah the bullpen could use another lefty but the back end is solid and middle inning guys are a dime a dozen any time of the year. I’m not saying they shouldn’t spend, I just can’t see spending it just to spend it There just isn’t a lot of value out there.
Alonso is not a fit either. He does not see himself as a DH. Otherwise, you’re right. Save your dollars for a great fit, like Tucker, and overpay like heck for it. Bregman and Alonso are holding out for overpays and if they’re bad fits it makes no sense.