Zack Scott, former Mets Acting GM and four-time champion with the Red Sox, empowers sports operations and individuals to win through Four Rings Sports Solutions. He specializes in data-driven strategies and leadership development. His Sports Ops Launchpad helps aspiring sports ops pros break into the industry. Connect with him on LinkedIn here. Zack will be contributing periodically to MLB Trade Rumors.
The Dodgers aren’t ruining baseball with massive salary deferrals. They may be causing a perception issue for MLB, but focusing on deferrals for the next Collective Bargaining Agreement would be a misguided effort—a political gesture that won’t address the core competitive balance issues.
Deferrals serve two primary purposes: helping teams close deals and giving players a big headline to validate their market value and boost their status. They’re not a circumvention tool around the Competitive Balance Tax (CBT) rules. Spending power, not contract structure, drives baseball’s economic landscape. Teams with greater resources have always been able to outspend smaller-market teams. This dynamic is inherent in leagues without hard salary caps.
Over the past five years, the Dodgers have become a lightning rod for fan discontent by deferring over $1B to acquire many star players. Shohei Ohtani’s $680MM deferred salary is an extreme example, but their long-term contracts consistently feature deferrals.
Let’s consider a hypothetical scenario: What if deferrals were prohibited? Would the Dodgers still have offered Ohtani a $700MM contract? It’s highly unlikely. A league where deferrals are banned wouldn’t change the Dodgers’ desire to acquire Ohtani, but it would necessitate a different contract structure. Guaranteed dollar amounts would likely align more with the present value calculations we observe in current MLB contracts.
Ohtani’s contract (97% deferred) calculates to a $460MM present value using MLB’s 4.43% discount rate. This figure makes sense in historical context, as it surpassed Trout’s $426.5MM (no deferrals), which stood as the highest for nearly five years. However, it’s crucial to understand the discount rate’s role in these calculations. MLB uses a conservative rate, which limits the CBT benefits for teams.
This standardized rate doesn’t reflect team owners’ financial realities. Many owners, especially those directly connected to global investment firms, achieve significantly higher returns. Consider Guggenheim’s Mark Walter, the Dodgers’ owner, whose firm has generated approximately 10% average annual returns, or Point72’s Steve Cohen, the Mets’ owner, with around 14% average annual returns. The present value drops significantly if we apply these more realistic discount rates to Ohtani’s deferred contract.
Using Walter’s rate, the present value would be approximately $282MM. Using Cohen’s rate, it would be even lower, around $203MM. This substantial difference reveals that the perceived CBT advantages from deferrals are less significant than they initially seem. Although deferrals offer teams greater financial flexibility in managing cash flow, their present value is inflated by the conservative discount rate used for CBT calculations.
While the CBT benefits from deferrals may be overstated, they carry inherent long-term risks. Revenue declines or ownership changes could jeopardize those large future payments. However, the Dodgers’ deep pockets mitigate these risks. Guggenheim’s returns suggest they’re well-positioned to meet these obligations. Commissioner Manfred cited the early 2000s Diamondbacks as a cautionary tale. Still, Arizona’s spending outpaced revenue, and their ownership was less diversified than the current Dodgers group, making a similar outcome unlikely. LA’s bet on continued financial success is reasonable.
My experience negotiating MLB contracts in large markets has shown that various contract structures can be critical to reaching agreements. We used salary escalators, signing bonuses, player opt-outs, and, yes, those evil deferrals. When I was with the Mets, we signed Francisco Lindor to a $341MM contract, including $50MM in deferrals and a $21MM signing bonus. While the deferrals didn’t drastically alter our CBT payroll, they were instrumental in reaching a “magic number” for Lindor, pushing him $1MM over Fernando Tatis Jr. to secure the headline highest-paid shortstop.
The “magic number” concept is crucial in player negotiations. It represents the minimum financial threshold a player is willing to accept to validate their market value and status. These numbers are rarely explicitly stated, as agents are more likely to present significantly higher buy-it-now prices and counteroffers. Effective negotiation requires understanding the underlying motivations behind this elusive target. Athletes at this level are incredibly competitive, so their reasons for setting their sights on a particular “magic number” differ from the typical fan.
Perhaps they’re motivated to be the highest paid at their position, to push the market forward to benefit the union, or maybe it’s a number that just feels better (e.g., $2MM vs. $1.95MM). Sometimes, the gap between the player’s “magic number” and the team’s offer is too wide to bridge. However, in other cases, creative contract structures, including deferrals, can be the key to finding common ground. If this flexibility didn’t exist, reaching those critical “magic numbers” would become significantly more challenging. This could lead to longer, more drawn-out negotiations—a scenario that already frustrates many baseball fans.
Mookie Betts’ contract with the Dodgers offers another compelling example. He signed a $365MM deal with $115MM deferred. While the headline figure was impressive (second largest contract behind Trout!), the present value was $307MM, placing it below a few additional contracts (Bryce Harper, Giancarlo Stanton, and Gerrit Cole). This structure allowed the Dodgers to acquire a star player while satisfying Mookie and his agent’s desire to be seen as a top-two player. In Boston, we had tried to re-sign Betts, but our self-imposed $300MM limit wasn’t enough to meet this desire. A similar deferral structure to the Dodgers’ deal might have changed the outcome.
The Dodgers and other marquee franchises play an essential role in baseball. People are fascinated by greatness and love to root for or against the best, whether it’s Mahomes’ Chiefs, Jordan’s Bulls, Jeter’s Yankees, or Ken Jennings’ Jeopardy. Baseball’s “Goliaths,” as Scott Boras calls them, drive higher interest and TV ratings, ultimately benefiting all MLB teams. While fans of smaller-market teams may express frustration over the financial disparities, eliminating deferrals won’t solve their economic concerns.
The Dodgers are drawing all the attention because they added so many big names over the last five years. This is due to several factors: their superior financial resources, their ability to optimize player performance, their winning culture, and their West Coast location, which is a significant draw for Japanese players. These factors have raised their villain status, and that’s good for baseball. But along with that comes more noise, including misplaced outcries about deferrals.
just_thinkin
“Here’s how to feel about this topic” – MLBTR writers, every single day talking down to their readers.
Piss off.
spiritof67
Amen! Players can get paid whatever they want. Owners can spend whatever they want. The Dodgers can outspend everyone else. It’s all legal. Got it. Well, we’re fans. We can’t all spend whatever we want. But we can voice our disgust. That’s legal too.
Goose Eggs
The Big Buck Dodgers want to destroy competitive MLB by outspending other teams using the tool of deferring salaries as a significant part of their strategy. Financially they can get away with it.. Most teams can’t. To a degree, they can buy championships. It makes it much more difficult for those teams who are in the NL West to compete with the Dodger$. For baseball to thrive as a sport, it needs a competitive balance. Baseball needs a salary cap.
The McNasty1
You win Best Comment for 2025.
Psychguy
Not exactly something to get angry about.
Tigers3232
@just Did you just skip article? Is it a lack of reading comprehension? Or did you understand and just angry that reality does not fit the perception you wish to believe??
Fever Pitch Guy
just – It’s posts like that which get comments shut down.
If you disagree with an opinion, explain why. It’s called civil discourse.
Personally I agree with Zack’s overall stance, but I do disagree with some of his points and would love to see him host an all-inclusive chat here about the subject.
I do think there are two additional primary purposes for deferrals that should have been mentioned: Huge tax savings for players, and a 2-year cash flow benefit for teams.
I disagree with the notion there are any longterm risks for the player. Funds are placed in escrow within two years of being earned, therefore Ohtani and others are guaranteed to receive the future payments.
And BTW there is ZERO chance the Dodgers or any other team would have given him $70M annually without deferrals. He would have gotten very close to the $46M annually if there were no deferrals.
deweybelongsinthehall
Exactly. Deferrals originally were geared towards protecting the player from himself. Now they’re used to save on taxes. Governments should be able to tax based on when the money was earned, not when they’re paid. Law firms doing personal injury work do this where they structure their fees on large cases.
Tigers3232
@dewey Different states have different laws regarding deferrals. Considering players are taxed for wherever each game is played. Deferrals aren’t the tax shelter you are trying to portray them as.
Ultimately they still are a way for players to hedge their investment. It passes risk off to someone else. It also as you stated protects them from themselves. It’s a great option for players considering the large sums they earn. They still are paid more than most could dream of annually and they protect themselves and their investments foe the future.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Deferrals are another form of Social Security, with the difference being you get all your money with deferrals (seniors should get back 100% of their SS contributions, but that’s a whole other topic).
In some situations deferrals still do protect players from themselves, like if they had a gambling problem ;O)
WadeBoggsWildRide
So the government should be as crooked as a personal injury lawyer?
Van Lingle Mungo
Have you been paying attention for the past week, Wade? They already are.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Which comment are you replying to Van? The comment format has things jumbled on my end.
Van Lingle Mungo
Sorry, Wade, here’s the comment I commented on:
“So the government should be as crooked as a personal injury lawyer?”
deweybelongsinthehall
Yes Tiger but typically compensation is taxed when received. You earn in December but it gets paid in January and counts towards the new year’s earnings. I believe Ohtani’ s bulk of his pay is deferred to when he’s back in Japan, meaning he may bypass U.S. and state taxes on that money (I’m no expert here…).
billy09
Japan’s taxes on high incomes is worse than the US so he wouldn’t have any savings. More than likely what he’ll do is establish residency in a non-income tax state. That’s where he’ll see the biggest savings
Tigers3232
@Dewey Yes it’s not taxable until he assumes it as income. If I remember correctly when I’d read on some of various states differences in taxing deferred income is that they stake a claim much like a lien. So when the income is taken they come due for their portion and any income accrued off of that portion. Not sure how many or the particulars. I also very well could be wrong.
I did however read Japan’s taxes are much higher, so the intent is not to flee to Japan later on to save on taxes. Not sure if federal tax code would leave that as an option here.
With Ohtani I believe part was to build upon his aura of being this anomaly and inflating #. He plays multiple positions, his international marketing appeal, etc.
The other part with Ohtani I believe could possibly be to insulate him. There’s a really good video on YouTube about Japanese baseball academies. They re essentially factories for young baseball talent. Kids live in dorms there and by and large live and breathe baseball. In Ohtani’s case he stayed and lived in the dorms by choice til I believe 21. So I’d imagine him and others like him lack a ton in life experience as they ve lived a sheltered existence. So take a player like him who knows primarily baseball and little else stick them in a foreign country. It’s a ripe victim if he were to entrust the wrong individual as that lack of experience leaves him naive and unaware. Couple in just trying to adapt to a foreign society. Deferring income would entrust it to and all liability elsewhere, therefore he wouldn’t be left exposed to himself or others.
The mix of all that makes him a prime example of deferrals being appealing. It also explains how he could ve possibly been victimized for millions. Not saying that was so but there is evidence that would support it.
Now most players are nowhere near his situation so the #s and vulnerabilities are scaled back exponentially. But are a prime example of worst case scenario. So scaled back when players have 10s of if not 100’$ of millions in earnings, it makes forgoing some potential interest income for piece of mind and a security blanket very appealing.
Ultimately with all that said even if it is done in whatever extent as a tax shelter, it’s impact is not on MLB or it’s economics. At the end of the day anyone appalled should be appalled at the haves and have nots. Instead there’s a misconception that deferrals are this sneaky tactic used for a competitive advantage. In reality it just is misunderstood and looks malicious when it is in fact not the issue.
MLB has long ago addressed accounting and governing deferrals so that there is not a loophole. Now if there’s an advantage as far as the players personal finances and tax liabilities there very well could be. The US tax code is overly complex and those overseeing are exposed to being tainted by supporters who could influence and benefit. That is an issue much larger than MLB and is pervasive across every aspect of society and businesses within. It’s just example that ultimately MLB is a business. And business just like individuals try and lessen their tax burden. But that is a socioeconomic issue not a issue with competitive inbalance exisisting in MLB.
Sorry probably some typos, I only have so much patience in regard to proofreading today.
Fred2023
Nevada would appear to satisfy two goals
for him.
Mech986TRtt
Yeah, but then he’d have to live in Nevada at least half the year. It’s a pleasant place depending on location, but not nearly as nice as other locations.
Jagsmanohman
So we’re responsible for someone’s emotional fragility?
Shutting the comments down just broadcasts that the site is stanning for an opinion that doesn’t jive w/ logic…
UncleSteveLover
Fever Pitch please keep this discussion on baseball, at worst taxes, and leave SS out of it especially because you are completely off base on SS. The avg American gets 2-3 times what they put into SS.
Fever Pitch Guy
Steve – Hey here’s a thought, instead of you ignoring the volumes I wrote about Zack’s article and instead of you zeroing in on just one sentence in which I ended with “but that’s a whole other topic”, how about you add something to the article discussion.
I’ll even help you.
Are you for deferrals or against them?
Do you think deferrals are a form of cheating?
Do you think the Dodgers deserve the hatred they’ve received?
BenJah
That’s pretty harsh, but I might somewhat agree with the sentiment if this is all we get on the topic. Perhaps MLBTR will have another post(s) with differing takes, and I’ll certainly read them and consider.
This is very well written though, and from someone who definitely understands the issue. I’m here for that
Psychguy
Nice to read a rational post for a change.
WadeBoggsWildRide
No front office insider or union rep is going to have an opinion different from the one above. Not in their interest to.
BlueSkies_LA
This is a very thorough, completely factual explanation of deferrals and how they work for teams and players. I’m not sure what other take is required. Having run a piece that gets the subject right, should they be running another piece that gets it wrong? Equal time for ignorance?
paddyo furnichuh
@blueskies….Maybe another article for those who are allergic to logic and nuance.
theonlydynasty
There’s a Grey area here that keeps being missed. Personally I hate these deferrals and real day values and such. It doesn’t feel like a level playing field. Well, lifes not fair, I get that. But baseball is supposed to be where we come to escape those things. This is a choice for us to be fans. This article could very well be the 1000% truth. But that’s not gonna stop people from disliking it. If the truth disenfranchises nearly all fan bases, then this model won’t work.
BlueSkies_LA
Or one that doesn’t use so much grade school arithmetic.
oldguyG
I’m sick of a league that gives advantages to the superior financial teams . Make the league fair top to bottom fans are tired of it. It’s a league problem and there are fans of other teams . How is a 400 m payroll vs 200 make it even 300 vs 300 .
BenJah
Yes, in fact I do want another take that gets it wrong. That’s how everyone will know what take is right and we can move on from this issue
c-6
A-men. Most teams can’t defer 1 billion dollars. It’s an unfair advantage. 1/3 of the league has zero chance of winning a championship.
billy09
It’s as fair to lower revenue teams as it’s ever been in the history of MLB. The Yankees or Dodgers would never have access to the type of amateur talent like Paul Skenes. They’re penalized in almost every facet of talent acquisition for spending high dollars on free agents. The portion of their revenue that they have to kick in to the small market clubs have never been higher. Yet most small market clubs still run small payrolls and still turn a big profit. Look at the Pirates. They arguably had one of the greatest rookie pitchers in the last 20 years and their attendance increased compared to last year. Yet their payroll remains the same…
GenoSeligPrieb
Give Skenes a few years. As soon as possible, he’ll pitch in LA or NY
billy09
As he should leave Pittsburgh. He plays for a team that refuses to pay for premium players. They refused to raise payroll when they have one of the greatest young (and cheap) phenoms in the sport. The Pirates’ owner doesn’t deserve to keep him.
cwsOverhaul
Really good players are more likely to accept the inflated deferral guarantees from the handful of large market teams they’re confident will use the favor to keep buying other stars. That is where it’s another advantage. Mid and smaller market teams cannot land good players doing this to any significant degree. It is not a matter of cheating, but taking advantage of the only pro sports league that increasingly aims to create rules/loopholes that guarantee large markets postseason participation.
The NY teams/Philly/RSox/Cubs should also make it standard practice.
Fever Pitch Guy
cws – The decision to defer is largely impacted by the player’s financial position.
Ohtani already makes a ton of money on endorsements etc and he lives a relatively simple life, that’s why $2M annual salary works for him.
cwsOverhaul
FPG: It’s not about a single player like Ohtani. Deep pocket teams can do this as SOP with lot of stars/good players that have banked quite a bit or enough. The lack of a tight floor/cap is the real issue, but things like this are icing for imbalance.
Fever Pitch Guy
cws – Plenty of shallow pocket teams have utilized deferrals quite a bit, in fact I listed several of them just a few days ago.
Milwaukee with Yelich, Braun and Cain.
Washington with Corbin, Strasburg and Scherzer.
Your ChiSox are still paying Liam Hendriks.
The Orioles are still paying Chris Davis, Alex Cobb, and even Bobby Bonilla.
The Cards have deferrals with Arenado and are still paying Holliday and Wainwright.
StuMan
A person can have a very interesting and even complex personal life on $2 million a year.
The Dodgers taking advantage of Ohtani’s seemingly indifference to money (and selling it as “smart business”) is another reason why a lot of fans are irate at them.
Fever Pitch Guy
Stu – Ohtani is the one who requested the deferrals, not the Dodgers.
And the main reason is because of the tax he will be saving. Does that sound like an indifference to money? It sounds to me like quite the opposite, and was likely recommended by his financial advisors.
920falcon
The Lerners were deferring before deferring was cool.
deweybelongsinthehall
920. it was never done to the extent of the Dodgers and Ohtani’.
Mech986TRtt
Then those fans should be mad at all the teams who were in the final running for Ohtani and willing to accept / offer the contract terms he wanted – Blue Jays, Mets, Giants, maybe Yankees, Cubs. They should be happy with the Angels for NOT signing him and caving to his demands.
Would every one of those teams then been accused of “buying” a championship, and deferring $680M was bad for them? They were all potentially there at the finish line.
But I suppose if any team signed Ohtani and then reneged in building a better team with the savings the deferrals gave them, just pocketed the difference, accepted a few extra sponsors, and then proceeded to follow in the Angel’s footsteps of having a mediocre, maybe decent team, but getting little traction in the postseason, then everyone would have said Ohtani made a huge mistake, he’s chose another non-winner and he’s being wasted. And the team gets a short lived positive bump.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Teams aren’t really saving money with deferrals. It benefits the player more. Ohtani would not have made $700m without deferrals because the present value is $460m. He would have just gotten that $460m. The same money comes out of their pocket each year either way.
Fever Pitch Guy
Wade – Thank you! Facts don’t seem to matter to some people. They are angry with the Dodgers and no amount of facts will change that.
GenoSeligPrieb
If the Dodgers franchise is SO well-run, then why didn’t they win a title since 1988, until the Guggenheim Group started peeing away money like an Italian fountain? Their run of NL West titles just so happened to coincide with the GG buying 100-win seasons and World Series appearances. Under a cap, try outmanaging, outmaneuvering, outdeveloping everyone, and I’ll tip my cap. Not holding my breath
…
DroppedThirdStrike
They do all those things well AND they spend money.
920falcon
To add to your point, if a small market team actually does spend big on a free agent and he is a bust, that team is hamstrung with that contract and unable to sign more free agents in the meantime. Teams like the Dodgers and Yankees just keep on rolling and spending, regardless. To be fair, though-Hal’s Yankees are not George’s Yankees.
Yankee Clipper
Falcon: There is a simple solution to that, but it will never come to fruition….. non-guaranteed contracts. Then if the guy sucks, he’s cut. Perhaps they should be required to finish paying him throughout that season, but it would rectify that issue for sure.
920falcon
Fact and fact.
Fever Pitch Guy
Clip – There’s a reason the NFL is the only one of the 5 major professional team sports that has virtually all non-guaranteed contracts. Why would a baseball player, especially a pitcher, risk getting released without pay if they sustain an injury?
Since you suggest paying all players throughout each season, I suppose MLB could come up with a policy of only 1-year contracts for all players …. but like you said, the players union would never approve of such a change, and MLB would lose a ton of talented players who would want more security than just a year.
Yankee Clipper
FPG: You’re correct, and I did not articulate my point well. I believe injuries should be an exception, obviously, or perhaps a percentage amount on the total (think like a disability or WC claim would pay).
Nonetheless, you’re right, it will never happen. A cap would happen well before that would be accepted imo.
paddyo furnichuh
@Clipper, It does seem like the guaranteed contract for players after 6 years of service time is as permanent a fixture as MLB org’s incomplete disclosure of financials (outside publicly traded org) and MLB having an antitrust exemption.
Mondesi’s Cannon
IT’S TIME, FOR DODGERS BASEBALL!!!!!
WadeBoggsWildRide
Just_Thinkin-You are an example of why they need to talk down.
It would be nice if the writer actually put forward his views on how to “fix competitive balance” but he is right in that deferrals make no difference.
martras
I don’t like deferrals. It feels like the whole system is being gamed. Ran across this on TwinsDaily and I finally saw what looks like a reasonable explanation of how it works
twinsdaily.com/forums/forum/11-other-baseball/
I still don’t like deferrals and I feel like they’re going to eventually create a mess, but I don’t hate them quite as much now.
neoncactus
Not pandering to the Dodgers. More about addressing false information about the Dodgers, since they are the only team being accused of ruining baseball.
fivepoundbass
None of it is false information. The article was written to she’s light on the the details and reasoning behind deferrals. I either was or wasn’t telling people how they should think, depending on how impressionable they are.
VegasSDfan
Its going to become an issue if the Dodgers start winning the World Series every year and attendance starts declining.
That will force MLB to start thinking about how to make baseball more competitive.
We can already rule out about 12 teams from the playoffs, and be correct about 11 or 12 of them.
Mech986TRtt
The 2023 World Series between AZ and Texas was THE LOWEST RATED & WATCHED World Series ever since TV records began in 1963. The teams were deserving but they were not attractive to much of an audience behind their local markets. The 2024 Workd series was up 67% from that to be the highest rated and watched in the US wine 2017. Not included in that was the Japanese market which would have almost doubled viewership.
2023 overall MLB attendance was 70.75M and 2024 raised that another 1% to over 71.35M, also highest since 2017.
What was noticeable was a surge in the key 18-34 age demographic which are the young up and coming fans, the ones who will replace us Boomers and boomlets. Whatever they see as attractive is much the same as we saw over the last decades where teams went in runs, where some dominated for years, where some were despised, cheered, rooted for, booed, by fans came out to see stars, to see the games, and hoped their teams would come out on top. Even when the Yankees dominated for 5-6 years, baseball survived, although the steroid era tainted that somewhat, people responded to domination of home run hitters.
IMO, I suspect even with a team like the Dodgers winning another championship or two, attendance can still be stable or even rise, partially because dominant teams draw and fill up away stadiums too. The Giants, Padres and lesser AZ and COL benefit from that, as do many other Dodgers opponents.
It’s no coincidence that Dodgers led in Home AND Away attendance. It’s also no coincidence that bad teams or teams not trying or have historically had lousy market support even when winning have lousy attendance, and thus local revenues (A’s, Marlins, Rays, and to lesser extent, Royals, Pirates, Tigers & White Sox).
oldguyG
Baseball is broken for teams because the rich have so many advantages. Fans of other teams matter if you can compete fans would probably come . It gets old knowing your team can’t compete with payrolls 2x the media revenue isn’t there . What’s dodgers 8.25 billion media geez mlb is broken
Tigers3232
For being broken MLB managed to have record high revenue
forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2025/01/27/mlb-revenue…
BlueSkies_LA
And everybody, large market and small, makes money. Believe it or not, this is actually somewhat important to the owners.
disadvantage
@just_thinking
What about this article do you find so frustrating? I read the same article you did (assuming you actually read it), and I found the article to be an interesting perspective, and did not at all pick up on any tone that MLBTR is trying to dictate how I should feel. Personally, I read the article, it made some good points, and I still despise deferrals to the extent the Dodgers use them (granted, I am a Giants fan, so I may be a little biased).
Jagsmanohman
Stop telling ppl how they should think about a thing. Present facts minus the feels.
disadvantage
@jags
Did you even read my comment? To repeat, I didn’t pick up on any bias, just an analysis of deferrals and their impact. If you disagree, that’s fine, but dismissing it as “feels over reals”, without any evidence actually pointing that out, is a weird follow up to a comment stating they didn’t see any bias.
Dock_Elvis
This is a lot of nothing, yes. Being a former front office executive also doesn’t impress me. As I also am former professional scouting.
Explaining HOW these work or why does ZERO to address the very real potential outcome that this is NOT good for the future of MLB.
The fact is. A great many teams simply CAN’T DEFER on any level that will trigger deals. And once the Yankees, Cubs, and several other larger markets roll with this Dodger type model. It will make small markets even smaller.
What is the option for the Kansas City, or Pittsburgh? Offer massive deferrals for unproven prospects? That’s even HIGHER risk. Should the Pirates offer Skenes and absolutely INSANE contract extension that hedges they’ll keep him away from free agency? Good luck.
Always remember that those IN the game and who DEAL with the game protect themselves because they have hope to still WORK.
I have no such desire. I’m doing other things now and am quite happy.
disadvantage
@dock
1. Very cool username
2. Hat tip for providing an actual critique of the article, and not just reading the title, running straight to the comments, and pretending the article is trying to indoctrinate you. Super refreshing, and well written.
Dock_Elvis
Im not trying to undermine Mr Scott at all. My wife is also one of the nation’s leading financial analysts and would actually be his employer.
JoeBrady
A great many teams simply CAN’T DEFER on any level that will trigger deals.
==========================
Many teams cannot afford the LAD’s payroll, but every team can afford to defer 100% of the salaries that they do pay.
4Roses
I agree that MLBTR has been pushing this narrative. It’s their site so they can push whatever they want, luckily based on their own survey it looks like more people disagree with them than agree.
I also always take with a grain of salt whatever someone with a vested interest in the decision (aka anyone who gains from the contracts) gives me data and or an opinion. You have to understand that their opinion is impacted strongly by self interest. That applies to this as well.
I do tend to agree with them that deferrals are not the biggest issue, the issue is the lack of a salary cap and stronger revenue sharing that allows smaller markets to compete regularly with the larger markets. The deferrals are just a symptom of the illness eating at the league. It’s become more pronounced recently because the differences between the haves and have nots has gotten larger but overall this is not the issue to fixate on in the CBA.
BlueSkies_LA
Yes, they keep pushing the truth narrative.
Shame. Shame. Shame.
VegasMoved
I mean, maybe their readers are just dumb.
Simm
I feel confident in saying of Ohtani had zero deferred money he would have sign for more than 460m.
No way just a year later Soto would get nearly 800m with no deferred money and Ohtani would have gotten 460m.
So yes the tax dodging dodgers know what they are doing.
The current mlb system is broke .
BlueSkies_LA
Soto’s contract is for 15 years, Ohtani’s for ten. So when you do the arithmetic, this makes Soto’s annual compensation around $5M a year higher than Ohtani’s. This site predicted Ohtani’s contract very close to what he got in present value. So the source of your confidence I cannot guess.
letitbelowenstein
The original draft was called “Leave Those Poor, Sweet Dodgers Alone”.
Netflix&RichHill
wow, that’s an insane response to this article. this was super informative and really cool and you turned it into them telling you how to think? mlbtrs comment section is littered with troglodytes.
fox471 Dave
So this “just thinking” person is blaming MLBTR for whatever because the site tries to alleviate some concern about deferrals? What a sad little puppy.
kylegocougs
Bad take
Larry D.
Deferrals are a serious advantage for a team with $540 billion in annual revenue.
A team with $302 million in annual revenue (KC) could never pull this off.
Psychguy
Says Mr. Ricketts.
Manfred Rob's Earth Band
How do you know Larry’s last name? Besides it looks like it starts with a D. Would it be Mr. Dicketts?
Psychguy
Let me spell it out for you. Poster has a Cubs logo, presumably he’s a Cubs’ fan. The Ricketts’ family owns the Cubs. Is that enough?
NYCityRiddler
Now they’re bringing in outside sources to explain to all the maroons on here how deferrals work & they STILL don’t get it. Heavens to Murgatroyd! Ahahahahahaha!
paddyo furnichuh
After this article and hearing a former MILBer talk about the low budgeting of Bob Nutting, I’m learning to be more appreciative of front offices like Pirates’ or CWS (not a small market, Reinsdorf!)
It’s gotta be hard to compete when your tools available are Windows 98 and an abacus.
theonlydynasty
Why do so many of you guys constantly harp on this “you guys just don’t get it”? The majority absolutely understand how it works, and DON’T LIKE IT. If half the fans said they were willing to lose a season over this stuff, then I’m sorry guys, it’s a big problem.
DroppedThirdStrike
Over deferrals? You might not like it, but if you’re willing to lose a season over them then you really don’t get it. They’re not that big a deal.
If you want to cry over financial disparity then that’s fair to cry over a little.
theonlydynasty
Yes actually. Me personally, I don’t like it, but, shoot, I’m a Yankees fan, I’ll be ok no matter what. But that poll they put up scares me. This level of fan displeasure is dangerous to the game.
DroppedThirdStrike
I agree with that. I don’t think there needs to be any sort of concessions to fans, but acting like owners and players are on an island by themselves and taking fans for granted isn’t a smart, growth-based move.
Led Hoyer
With deferrals this is basically a half of a billion dollar roster. It’s getting ridiculous. Everyone in the baseball industry keeps telling us how great it is for the game. It’s not.
BridegroomFan2
Even teams worse than KC can and have. Just not $700 million. The point of the column is that (a) there are meaningful financial disparities across teams, (b) but deferrals are just a side show.
BlueSkies_LA
The piece completely disproves this argument. Maybe you’d benefit from a second reading.
920falcon
A long time ago, in a galaxy not so far far away, KC was actually able to sign a top tier free agent, like David Cone. The idea of them signing a similar level pitcher today is laughable.
nukeg
Exactly. If anyone wants to bypass the article and read the following line, then you’ll understand why deferrals give the powerful teams even more power:
“However, the Dodgers’ deep pockets mitigate these risks.”
Risk mitigation. It’s about purchasing “power”, not the purchase itself. The Dodgers can kick the proverbial salary can down the line because they (and their investors) are confident they can absorb those salaries with future revenue in such a large market. A team like Minnesota has far less power / confidence and cannot take in that risk.
BlueSkies_LA
@ nukeg. Bypass everything in the article and fixate on one sentence? Sure, that’ll work. Especially when reading the entire article disproves what you believe. Hint: they are not funding the deferrals with future revenue. Market size has nothing to do with it. This is all explained.
nukeg
@BlueSkies_LA, I read the article. It’s an opinion piece. I don’t agree with the opinion. I was an Economics major and have my MBA and who cares other than to say I don’t see how anyone with that background can have the opinion that the Dodgers financial strength and flexibility allows them to offer deferrals that other small market teams cannot.
By deferring payments, they essentially free up cash flow in the short term, which can be reinvested into player acquisitions, infrastructure, or other operational areas that generate returns.
In other words, Shohei will make you more money now so you can make it easier to pay off later.
This strategy allows them to spread out the financial burden over time, and if managed properly, they can offset future liabilities with the growth in revenue or value of the team. The Dodgers, being in a high-revenue market, can likely generate enough income to make the deferrals advantageous. Economically, this is a form of “cheap capital” as they are not paying interest on those deferred amounts, but still holding onto the financial flexibility.
In a larger context, as I said above, deferring money shifts the financial risk. If the team performs well, the deferred contracts are easier to manage. But if not, it can allow them more room to pivot financially, rather than being locked into large payments in a leaner year. So, in a strategic sense, it does offer them an edge in terms of liquidity and flexibility.
BlueSkies_LA
I take it you actually disagree with the facts, which refute everything you said.
Tigers3232
@nuke You obviously did not read te article or have ever read MLB’s rules and regulations governing deferred contracts.
The deferrals have to be funded annually. That $ accrues with interest from a 3rd party to be paid later.
Sp no strategically it does not offer them an edye or liquidity. You are saying it as tho it’s pay as they wish which is absolutely not the case. All deferrals do is shift risk and inflate the reported value.
redsorbust
Exactly. IMO Whatever is going on deferrals or salary caps or the lack there of the gap between haves and the have nots is ever widening. There may be all these fans who need a super team like the Dodgers to love or hate and that’s what gets their endorphins going. Not me. For me it’s fair competition and knowing my team has an actual chance for glory that does not disappear after the first week of the season.
shyzer
How can they not? The CBA says deferments are funded the year they are earned, minus roughly 5% to account for growth in savings. This isn’t some massive advantage, it’s just a tool they’re choosing to use that other teams aren’t. But every team could easily afford to do so if they wanted.
Viva Los Doyersss
So you’re saying KC isn’t competent enough to manage a baseball team’s revenue and future cash flow? Got it.
RotiniRick
Nothing gets people’s blood boiling like Ken Jennings’ Jeopardy. Shocked comments are not closed after mentioning that rascal..
differentbears
One day he’ll pay for his crimes.
swtnes34
They may be causing a perception issue for MLB, but focusing on deferrals for the next Collective Bargaining Agreement would be a misguided effort—a political gesture that won’t address the core competitive balance issues
Yes, explain that to Tampa, Pittsburgh, Oakland/Sacramento…etc…because remember, deferrals do not include the team’s season salaries, which the Dodgers already outspend said teams 4 to 1…
differentbears
What? Deferrals are accounted for in the season salary. Ohtani gets 2 mil (Crashmore money), the Dodgers owe him 68 million when the deferral comes due, and the present day value of 46 million goes against their payroll figure for MLB’s luxury tax numbers.
Like this article states, without deferrals someone like Ohtani would not get 70 million a year. And when he does get his money, it’s not worth what it would be today.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Wouldn’t it be great if our money was worth the same as when we earned it a year after earning it?
Guertez
Depends on what you spend it on.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Beer and cross country flights
paddyo furnichuh
Hopefully it’s good beer and if a 737-max, one with all its bolts tightened.
(If it’s a big 3 Pilsner, the door plug bolts automatically loosen).
Yankee Clipper
I believe the frustration comes from everyone knowing the solution, but also knowing it will never come to any sport salary.
In any industry (outside of entertainment) there are accepted pay ranges for any position, up to and including the President. The pay ranges involve education, experience, and performance.
Thus, if in the NFL, a QB had a pay range and in MLB a SP had a pay range, it would alleviate the significant disparity amongst salaries offered by clubs.
In reality, a capped league still results in dominance by certain teams (see NFL/NBA). But capped position salaries would rectify the issue by its nature, and keep teams operating costs well within range of one another. Then, for true parity, COL allowances should be made based on acceptable industry standards wherever the Horne games are played. Therefore, CA teams could offer slightly more per position than TX or FL.
But, even though the Dodgers beat the Yankees, and knowing the above-referenced solution will never happen, I’m fine with it being what it is.
This one belongs to the Reds
I see the MLB media machine is working overtime to say “nothing to see here” again.
I’m sure Robby the robot’s large market masters are pleased.
Tigers3232
MLBs media machine?? You cant be serious, the rules of funding and account for deferrals towards luxury tax have been explained repeatedly in these comment sections. Here is an article dedicated solely to the topic and you are still trying to deny reality???
Does it upset you that deferrals aren’t this nefarious tool of deception that some misconcieve it as and others just try label it as out of pettiness??
Niekro floater
Dodger voodoo !
amk1920
Manny Ramirez and Ken Griffey Jr were still making money from MLB teams in 2024. All of a sudden you pretend to care
This one belongs to the Reds
A miniscule amount compared to the amount people are talking about here. Try again.
amk1920
Cool. Players and owners consent to deferring money. They don’t need fans permission. If Ohtani only wants to make a fraction of what he is worth in present value then that’s on him
desertbull
They do not need a salary cap or to ban deferrals.
They just need to tweak the rules involving the deferrals and AAV.
Ohtani will be paid $700,000,000 by the Dodgers, guaranteed.
The contract is 10 years, $700m
The AAV, for tax threshold purposes, should be $70M
nwagner
This is the point the author missed and why so many are upset regarding the deferrals. From an ownership cash standpoint, I don’t care if they defer 100% of the contract, the AAV should count towards the CBT like every other contract.
notagain27
I believe the author runs a baseball business and his biggest customers are more than likely the large market teams. How would you “skew” the article??
VegasMoved
Average Annual *value*, not Average Annual Dollars. The AAV is $46 million. If you want to charge the Dodgers $70 million, fine, but that’s no longer the AAV.
Tigers3232
@nwagner The present day AAV does count against luxury tax. It also is the same amount the team is required to pay annually as the deferrals happen. And since that $ is required ro be invested it is also what the team ultimately pays, all the interest is paid by a 3rd party where $ is invested.
Since so many want the interest that accrued counted as AAV, should all investments any current player has that was funded with MLB earnings also be counted? That’s essentially what is being asked for of those with deferred monies.
deano 2
Not understanding that rational at all. If I put $100 under my mattress today, that $100 will buy less in 10 years. It’s not the same money. Not to mention, I’ve read multiple places the salaries are escrowed each year. Owners get to keep the investment return, but the principal is tied up. There’s no risk for a player. And cashflow wise, the owner has to come up with the money. I think it’s brilliant, especially in high tax states like CA. Player plays, player retires and moves to Florida…save 13% CA Income tax. Player when signed lives in FL and gets signing bonus. No state tax. I think it’s why you see a lot of signing bonuses and deferred money by the Dodgers. It circumvents the high state tax.
differentbears
Part of the return goes to increase the money set aside to the later payment. But yes, Steve Cohen or Guggenheim get to keep anything above the agreed upon amount due.
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
Your analogy doesn’t make sense because ohtani willingly chose to not charge the dodgers interest on his deferrals
Some players charge interest for agreeing to deferring money
KamKid
I think you’ve hit on the perception issue. Darryl Strawberry’s salary was never referred to as a $33.9m salary in the way Ohtani’s is being called a $70m annual salary. Strawberry’s salary was always described as $1.8m with $700k deferred at 5.1% interest.
Somewhere along the line contracts with deferred salaries started being spoken about as inclusive of the interest payments. I’m curious about the timelines on this. Was it Scherzer era Nationals’ contracts? Griffey? I didn’t notice that when the Nationals were heavily using the strategy. It only really came to attention with Ohtani for me because of how stark the numbers were. I was aware of the practice of deferrals. But not really about how they were talked about.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Don’t tell Newsom!
Joemo
This analogy isn’t the same. You’re not buying anything in 10 years.
You’re getting a service now. This year. You need to pay for the service. The service costs $100 in current value. The person says don’t worry about it, pay me in 10 years. That doesn’t change the fact that you are paying $100 in 2025 currency for the services provided. You’re not paying them less for their services because you’re paying them in the future. They aren’t going “oh $100 today? No that’s ok, give me $80 10 years from now.”
JerseyShoreScore
Ohtani received $700 million because of the deferrals. If deferrals were unavailable, his contract would have been $450 or $500 million. Thus, the amount counting against the CBT is nearly 100 percent accurate based on his value at the time of his free agency.
O'sSayCanYouSee
Thank you Zach Scott. Well done.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Just (not) Thinkin disagrees.
sufferforsnakes
Well done propaganda is more like it.
WadeBoggsWildRide
What about the article is untrue or misleading?
Jbigz12
some people are just so stupid it’s impossible. He lays out all the facts in an articulate and concise manner but it doesn’t matter for some. Obviously.
Jagsmanohman
Then why the need to tell us how to feel about it?
DroppedThirdStrike
Because your brain doesn’t seem to comprehend the math, so feelings are all he’s got left.
Feel any way you want about it, just know that your feelings aren’t validated and the adults are tired of explaining it to you so they pat you on the head
southsidejoe
Are fans upset at the Dodgers and deferrals? I think they’re upset at the system and the lack of balance. Sure the Dodgers are the team that’s bringing the issue to the forefront, but I don’t think most fans are blaming the Dodgers or deferrals for their anger. .
Ghost of Willie Stargell
Exactly. I don’t even necessarily want a cap. What I want is an economic system that is a level playing field. One where the Pirates have a shot to extend Skenes at his market value. Cheap owners need to spend more but the Dodgers spending in excess of many teams revenue is a symptom of a broken economic system that needs to be fixed.
Joemo
The point of the CBT is to prevent teams from spending in excess, as opposed to a hard salary cap.
Based on the Dodgers and Mets in recent years, it isn’t doing its job.
I actually like a system similar to the NBA where there is a salary cap, but teams get some advantages for signing their current players. I’m sure the system has its issues, but I like the idea behind it.
For example, pirates can extend Skenes and only have 75% of the AAV count towards the CBT. Now for the really cheap teams, it might not be a huge deal but for teams close that choose to invest more in their team that savings could be huge. They could add more players without paying the CBT penalities.
billy09
Just because you gave 2 extreme examples of teams exceeding the luxury tax number doesn’t mean the CBT isn’t working to some extent. Look at how many major market teams operate with that highest CBT number as a cap. Houston, Chicago and even the Yankees have used that highest CBT number as their limit on luxury tax payroll. If those penalties didn’t exist then more than likely those teams would and could have exceeded that “cap”
Joemo
Billy – I will say it’s working to some extent, but you can’t say it’s doing its job when the Dodgers have essentially laughed at the CBT penalities and just kept spending.
The Dodgers estimated 2025 payroll is 379MM according to Fangraphs Roster Resource.
The CBT threshold for 2025 is 241MM. The highest tier of penalities starts at 60MM over that. The Dodgers are about 80MM over the highest penality, or further away from the start of the tier than the tier is away from the lowest tier.
The Dodgers are spending about 50% of the luxury tax threshold above the threshold. That’s insane.
billy09
But like I said it is working for the vast majority of teams including the vast majority of large market teams. The Dodgers are an extreme example. And ten years from now when they’re paying 100M of salaries to old/retired players then we’ll see the ramifications of it
BlueSkies_LA
The CBT is in fact doing its job. It is reallocating hundreds of millions in revenue from large market teams to the smaller market teams. The confusion arises from fans who can’t accept that this is its actual purpose.
Joemo
But it needs to be something that works for all teams, not just the majority of them.
I don’t agree with your last statement about them feeling the ramifications of it then. The money for deferrals is due into an escrow account two years after it is earned. There won’t be a big hit in 5-10 years, the hit will be spread throughout. Now maybe in 10 years the dodgers will realize they didn’t get the expected results from the spending.
oldguyG
League is broken CBT is not doing its job and LA/NY ruins it for us fans . Take away your media see how fast you are not happy . Revenue sharing half goes to the retirement
BlueSkies_LA
The CBT is doing exactly what ownership wants it to do. Teams in large and small markets are profitable, so the CBT and revenue sharing does work for all team owners. Your mistake is believing that “us fans” figure into this somehow.
DroppedThirdStrike
That is it doing its job. Otherwise it would be a hard cap. It’s meant to be exceeded and the breaching team is meant to pay a premium for it.
It’s a feature not a bug.
oldguyG
CBT is broken , media is broken . MLB needs a salary cap /floor revenue sharing it sucks unless you are a LA NzY fan . Dodgers have 8+billion media deal others are lucky to make 30 m year . League is broken driving fans away that are sick of rich teams wanting to have advantages to dominate .
BlueSkies_LA
MLB teams already share 48% of their revenue, plus the CBT. The Dodgers media deal is huge, but covers 25 years.
Ownership doesn’t consider this system broken.
dodgers32
@southside, I think the uninformed fans are who get riled up by sports talk shows (particularly out of NY and Chicago). What’s not discussed are the number of teams that also use deferrals, many of which are not publicized. Ownership also plays a big part in who signs who and fans anger is sometimes misplaced at the signing team when it should be turned against their team’s ownership. Let’s shed light on the teams that are also frequent users of salary deferrals. It would open some eyes and shut some mouths.
dm867
The amount spent on deferrals by the dodgers versus those other teams would open those mouths right back up.
oldguyG
Major market baseball other teams fans can hope for a last wild card spot wooo tie doo
oldguyG
MLB ,MLBPA,CBT CBA,RSNis all broken . Losing fans and money from fans like me that suffers because my team can’t keep up with the superior financial teams advantages.
DroppedThirdStrike
Then why are ticket sales, viewership, and sponsorship all up?
oldguyG
Superior financial resources major market baseball league . Is not good for baseball of a fan not in medium market . Go back to drawing board . League is broken and not equal payroll.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Are you a native English speaker?
Manfred Rob's Earth Band
Don’t be languagist
oldguyG
I’m a little old and don’t type well .
A'sfaninLondonUK
@oldguyG
I’m an A’s fan, so am completely used to an imbalance in resources. I also have no problem with it. I can’t see your utopian ideal where you make every team spend exactly $200 million (as an example)… The very nature of competition is not equality. And if you were to create that, you might as well give every team a number on a 30 place roulette wheel. The weird socialism some fans yearn for in Sport but reject everywhere else is beyond me….
oldguyG
I’m asking it be fair league 400 m payroll against 150 , 200 is ridiculous . Teams not having a losing season in 30 years because of financial superiority.
fansincethe80s
Well written and very informative but missed the fans issue by country mile.
rangers13
I agree. Article is useless and I am sorry I took the time to read it The writer completely missed the point and the fan’s concerns. The only thing the writer got correct was the goliaths move the market and even though the Dodgers and other teams can spend hundreds of millions baseball is quickly becoming a sport the fan cannot afford. It cost nearly 400 not counting a hotel, gas, and food to go to a game for my grandsons and me. That is for three hours of entertainment i n contrast seven of us took a vacation 7 states with multiple stops at attractions and total bill was around 1800 for 10 days with hotels and food. Total cost of one game hotel gas and food for 7.Just over $1000 for three hours. That is what is wrong with the financial structure of baseball. Salaries don’t determine ticket prices will be the argument some will offer, but that is only superficially true. Ticket prices are determined by the overall expenditures of a team just like menu prices at a resturaunt don’t directly pay the salary of the workers but are part of the overall financial model of the business.
JerseyShoreScore
Your choice… Nobody is obligated to spend money on elective outings. Based on attendance numbers, the Dodgers certainly do not need you or your grandson’s money…
fansincethe80s
This is a short sighted view. Without his and others like his, the MLB won’t be able to sustain & expand their fan base which would lead to financial issues.
rangers13
Might pay attention to screen name. I could care less about watching the Dodgers since I live 1400 miles away, but ticket prices are outrageous in all sports.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
Baseball still the cheapest ticket outta the 4 major North American sports. I’m paying at least twice as much for a ticket to watch football, basketball and hockey….
BlueSkies_LA
@ rangers13. This is a fallacy. The teams are never going to charge y0u less than you are willing to pay for a ticket. In fact those tickets are demand-priced in real time now. How much you are willing to pay sets the price, not any sort of financial structure. It is more than superficially true that salaries don’t determine ticket processing, it is literally true. If player salaries went down, this would simply mean ownership keeps more of what fans are willing to pay.
Joemo
You’ve completely missed the point that most people have said their issue is with deferrals. The issue is that teams double dip in the advantages from deferrals. Teams get to pay players more money and they save money for CBT purposes. I personally don’t think deferrals are “evil”, I want players to get paid. But without a salary cap, this double dip into the benefits of deferrals creates a more uneven playing field for big market teams.
If you’re paying a player 70MM for their services for a year of playing baseball for you, that should be the luxury tax value for that year. If you’re paying him 46MM, then that should be the luxury tax hit. The CBT is supposed to prevent teams from spending money in place of a salary cap and by looking at the Dodgers and Mets in recent years, it’s clearly not doing the job.
A big market team can use deferrals to lower their salary commitments and CBT value, which defeats the purpose of the CBT. Now would the Dodgers still be spending if they had to pay the full value of the contracts to the CBT? Prior to this off-season I would have said yes, but now I’m not so sure. But they, like everyone else, have a limit.
deano 2
But you forgot the most important thing. They would never pay a guy $70m in today’s money. Thats the only reason it’s so high. Because the player is getting it later, not today.
Joemo
So why not just pay the player whatever they deem the present value is and call it a day?
bedbathandbiyombo
That’s exactly what the article addressed. They do the deferrals to help players and agents hit their magic number.
Joemo
Bed – so then 70MM AAV was Ohtani’s magic number and he wouldn’t have signed for a 46MM AAV deal, got it. So that should be his luxury tax hit then. Thanks!
WadeBoggsWildRide
The player wants to say they made $700m. You pay them $700m in a way that only costs you $460m. Win-win.
Joemo
Wade – the team will be paying the player 700MM though. The 460MM doesn’t magically turn into 700MM. The team will still be paying Ohtani 700MM. They aren’t paying him 460.
JerseyShoreScore
That is the bottom line. If deferrals were unavailable, Ohtani’s market was 10 years and $450 to $500 million.
billy09
There are countless comments on this thread making this assertion but for whatever reason I am choosing just to replay to yours. Why do you (and others) say no one would ever get 70M per year without deferrals? What was Juan Soto’s contract? 765M with NO deferrals…
Joemo
Billy – right? Sotos deal is 51MM AAV and he’s only a hitter. The lure of Ohtani is he is an all-star hitter and pitcher.
billy09
Exactly and it’s only 51MM because it was a 15 year contract. Ohtani is four years older. He certainly could have signed a 15 year 700MM contract but it was better for both the team and player to structure it with deferrals
dodgers32
@joemo: the Dodgers and every other teams that defers player salaries use the discount rate prescribed by MLB. This gives every team that uses this financial management mechanism no advantage over the other from a structure standpoint. As long as the signing team has the willingness and resources to do so. MLB also requires $$ to be set aside. It’s a valid option that more teams should use, and more teams are doing so.
Joemo
Dodgers – I’m not saying the Dodgers have done anything wrong or illegal or are cheating the system. The Dodgers are operating within the given rules and regulations. What they’re doing is very smart, it’s a combination of having very smart ownership and having money that they are willing to spend. Good for them. Most owners care more about profits than winning, and the dodgers are one of a very small amount of teams who realize that putting a great product on the field will result in more money in their pockets.
I’m saying there is an issue with the system.
WadeBoggsWildRide
deano is right you kind of missed the whole point of the argument.
Joemo
Wade – I completely get the argument he’s making. It just doesn’t make sense that teams are comparing two different numbers when calculating CBT hits for deferred and non deferred contacts. Another poster in this article shared this link: bsky.app/profile/sandykazmir.bsky.social/post/3lgh… which shows you can apply the npv calculations to non deferred contacts and Soto would have a much lower CBT hit. Why not apply that calculation to both types of deals? Why only deferred ones?
WadeBoggsWildRide
Applying those calculations to non-deferrd contracts is meaningless because they aren’t deferred. The $700m deferred contract costs the Dodgers $460m. They put that money in the bank and it grows to $700m by the time they pay. That is a very over simplified explanation but the best I can do. Ohtani is making $700m. The Dodgers are not paying $700m. Gold was about $1750 a few years ago. It is now about $2700. Gold did not increase in value.
Joemo
That’s not a explanation at all. The Mets could put a sum of money, according to that link ~42MM per year and pay Soto’s salary with it. You don’t know what the Mets are actually doing with their money to pay Soto.
Just because a deferral forces you to do it this way doesn’t mean the same methodology cannot be applied to other contracts.
Let me ask you this, at the end of the day, how much money are the Dodgers paying Ohtani for his services?
DroppedThirdStrike
$46MM per year for 10 years. Whatever else Ohtani earns is interest on his money that’s set aside.
dm867
“It represents the minimum financial threshold a player is willing to accept to validate their market value and status.” So these guys are fragile little flowers that only care about their status? Doesn’t help public perception.
metsin4
The deferrals aren’t designed to avoid luxury tax. They are designed to avoid income tax. It gives California and New York teams a way of circumventing tax laws and letting players be paid later when they won’t be over taxed. Nobody wants to give the government their money even if they have to wait for it.
sailaway
If they weren’t designed to avoid the cbt, then why are the Dodgers not paying the full 70 on Ohtani and using the extra money to sign other free agents? Yeah it goes into a trust, but overages are overages. The fact that it helps players with state taxes is extra proof that it’s a loophole that needs to be fixed.
deano 2
You got it!
Ghost of Willie Stargell
New York taxes earnings on where it is earned. Ohtani will owe his share of NY tax when he receives the money. I think California is the same.
Bivouac-Sal
Ohtani is going to pay NY state tax? Interesting. How do you figure that?
fansincethe80s
The state where they play will tax them on their income from games played in that state, while the state where they reside will tax them on their entire income.
Bivouac-Sal
wrong. the players get taxed in the state solely where they are paid.
fansincethe80s
Just because you believe it doesn’t make it true.
hrblock.com/tax-center/income/wages/the-jock-tax/?…
billy09
He will 100% pay NYS sales tax for the days/games he plays in NY. That’s how it’s always been
Bivouac-Sal
I stand corrected
metsin4
No they don’t. Are you implying NY and California tax retirement earnings after people leave the state? They have zero jurisdiction of someone who doesn’t live in their state or no longer works in their state.
Ghost of Willie Stargell
If I am an executive at a financial firm and I have a nonqualified retirement plan (which this is) or I hold stock options and exercise them in retirement, it is taxable in the state where it is earned. So Ohtani only earns 1.85 to 4.3 percent in NY in a given year, NY certainly gets their piece.
billy09
He’s not going to pay sales tax to NYS for his deferred salary, we’re talking about his current salary. That absolutely gets taxed on a pro-rated basis for whatever state they play throughout the year. Aaron Judge will pay California sales tax for the days/games he spends in California during the season.
metsin4
What are you talking about? Sales tax is only charged for items purchased in a state or locality.
billy09
Sorry meant income tax. Point stands though. Players pay INCOME tax on a prorated basis for each state they play in (if that state has income tax)
metsin4
They pay 100% income tax on all money earned in the state they play in. It’s not prorated to other states. The jock tax is an additional tax added by other cities and states.
Brew88
Another writer trying so hard to explain to someone in Pittsburgh or Kansas City that a big market big villain big dominant team with all the advantages is good for baseball and if they just squint hard enough they too will see a big win for them too.
I prefer the NFL model, where teams in small markets like KC and Pittsburgh can thrive
Squeeze32
lets not act like the nfl isnt just using a different system to reach a similar end result though. the nfl has a salary cap which allows markets to have similar opportunity, but you can’t act like there is more parity. the difference in the nfl is just that smaller markets can be the ones who have success every season.
instead of going into the season expecting the dodgers yankees and mets to be standing in the end, its the chiefs bills and ravens. the success is just distributed to different markets and teams like the jets and browns are hopeless year in and year out.
Ghost of Willie Stargell
Yes but I think that is more due to incompetence. I have no problem with an incompetent owner and front office to fail. I don’t like the concept of financial might turning my team into cannon fodder.
kodion
The NFL result is more of a reflection of organizational excellence than any advantage, or limitation, imposed by financial rules.
Without a functional cap/floor, financial might is a tool that teams would be foolish not to exploit if they can.
Squeeze32
yes, but my point is still that the salary cap in the nfl has just moved where the most “dominate” teams are located. the panthers don’t enter every season with more hope because they can spend the same amount as everyone else. the ire just gets moved from LA to KC.
i’m not saying that a cap won’t help to level the playing field a bit but using the nfl as the example doesn’t help to improve parity. and it’s not like half of the fans in the nfl don’t hate their owner, its just for a different reason.
the chiefs have been in 5 of the last 6 super bowls. the patriots dominated before that. the difference in mlb is that the financial might doesn’t prevent the dodgers from losing a 5 game series in the ds.
i don’t know what the solution is but pretty much all of the major mens sports leagues in the world struggle with parity.
Appalachian_Outlaw
First off, when it comes to the NFL, Kansas City is not a small market. The Chiefs were 6th in the league in average attendance, and they share in those lucrative NFL TV deals.
The Steelers ranked in the bottom half for attendance figures, so one could say that might be a better example, but are they really thriving?
The NFL model is supposed to bring parity, however, Kansas City has been in four of the last five Superbowls, winning three of those games. Before that, there was New England’s run of dominance.
Parity in sports is a myth.
Salary caps and other tools leagues use to create “parity” are really just things owners use to drive salaries down, with none of those savings being passed onto the consumer. I’m sure MLB owners would love one because what billionaire doesn’t enjoy making more money? In terms of baseball though, if all of this was simply about helping “small” markets compete, why haven’t teams like the A’s taken advantage of the tools already in place instead of pocketing revenue sharing?
If a team really can’t compete, then it either needs to be sold, relocated or contracted. I know that’s going to be an unpopular statement, but there might be two or three teams at most that fall into that category. Many bad teams are bad because they’re mismanaged, and no system will fix that short of baseball adopting a relegation model.
So, I’m completely fine with how things are, and I’m not a Dodgers fan.
empirejim
Teams in small markets in MLB receive monies that the Dodgers (and others) pay in CBT taxes. Those payouts are REQUIRED to be spent on player payroll by the recipients. What will your small market teams use for their payroll without Dodger money in their coffers? You think your owners, who have to be forced to spend CBT payouts, are going to suddenly see the light and open their own wallets? Carefull what you wish for, the unintended consequences are real…
billy09
The NFL model of revenue is totally different. There are no local TV revenues. Everything is national. I certainly don’t want to see MLB adopt some sort of revenue sharing where NY needs to share all their revenue from their RSNs with some other team. Let’s really give teams like Miami (which shouldn’t even be considered “small market”) a bigger reason to just pocket revenue
GhostofRandySavage
Terrible opinion piece on a terrible opinion
twg915
Well said and well written.
As a Giants fan, I will always root against the Dodgers. But the truth is, I am jealous. Naively, I really thought that the Giants would go in this direction after the regime change in 2018/2019. Boy was I misguided. We have an ownership that is more concerned about bottom line than the actual product. I am a capitalist, I run a business, I understand. More power to them. The Dodger have a mindset to dominate on the field and everything else will follow. It works.
Dodger fans need to enjoy this period of dominance. They don’t last forever. The Dodgers have created a desirable situation and with the smarts they have, the financial backing, etc. it’s going to be a challenge to compete. The only solace the rest of us have…just be better than them for a couple of games in the playoffs and knock them out. For them to use the deferrals to build on their dynasty is just another smart thing to entice great talent to shore up more great talent. The players aren’t complaining and the fans keep forking over the cash.
Jagsmanohman
Lol “as a Giants fan”
Gotta be more subtle when you’re doing propaganda
twg915
Nice rebuke. You really got me there. Wow, that stings. How will I make it through my day?
I don’t have to defend my fandom to you. I know am right. For those of us who keep complaining about deferrals, we just wish our teams were in a position to do what the Dodgers do.
None of us intend to just “check out” on MLB. We’ll whine and complain, but we still tune in and we still spend our money.
dodgers32
@twg: well said. The playoffs are, and have been, the great equalizer.
billy09
Agree 100%! I, as a Yankees fan, couldn’t agree more. Don’t tell me the Yankees couldn’t do exactly what the Dodgers do. On one hand I respect Steinbrenner’s reluctance to hamstring future teams by clouding up payrolls with retired players. But on the other hand, Steinbrenner really views the top CBT number as a hard cap and is willing to sacrifice the product on the field to avoid exceeding the cap. And that was the main reason they were outmatched in the WS
JoeBrady
He’s a bit all over the place with the finances.
1-You can’t use the Guggenheim or Cohen returns for a couple of reasons. Scott is using rates of return in a bull market. My rate of return is better than either of those two, but it’s pure luck. One shouldn’t (and I don’t) expect that type of return going forward.
2-Scott simultaneously lauds the high rates of return as a positive, he also notes the risks teams take with the deferrals because of possible changes in team revenues. But aren’t these deferrals put in escrow? If they are truly escrowed, then they are beyond the control of the owner, much like out 401k’s.
Joemo
Just adding that he was the assistant gm of the Red Sox in 2019 and 2020, and we all can see the shift in philosophy from 2002-2018 to 2019 to now.
deano 2
My understanding is they are escrowed but owners get to keep the investment returns. I see two th8ng strong with the article. The fact he didn’t mention the money is escrowed and I’ve also read the owners are restricted in how they invest it. So using the 10% and 14% number doesn’t really work. I’m guessing it’s restricted to make sure the owners don’t lose the principal.
JoeBrady
My understanding is they are escrowed but owners get to keep the investment returns.
========================
Then as far as I can see, the money is not truly escrowed. If the owners get to keep the return in excess of 4.3%, then that means it can also lose money. That won’t satisfy the purpose of the escrow since it no longer guarantees payment to the player.
BlueSkies_LA
Escrowed means held by a third party. The language in the CBA suggests that these funds are held by the team. They are required to submit quarterly reports to the commission’s office on these accounts.
Coderan
“Deferrals serve two primary purposes: helping teams close deals and giving players a big headline to validate their market value and boost their status.”
My goodness if you can’t understand how poor that argument is for the players I don’t know what to tell you. How do you validate your market value by getting less money long term?
You know who needs the headline and can afford deferred payments? An agent with multiple clients
Tigers3232
@Coderan In Ohtani’s case he ultimately received a $460M contract in today’s value. He was not going to get $700M present day value.
Yes from his deferred $ Dodgers he’ll likely make less then if he just took $46M annually. He does benefit from doing so, it inflated the value of his contract and that inflated value is what many see and hear. That has further bolstered his image. He already has record endorsement revenue and the inflated value has further bolstered that. It also has garnered him an insane amount of free press. Adding all that in he ll likely end up way ahead when it’s all said and done.
Typical deferrals far less $ is deferred. They take bulk of it annually while deferring a small portion for later. This allows them to diversify their assets for down the road and provides piece of mind. I’m sure you ve heard “don’t put all your eggs in one basket”. That’s essentially what they are doing. And although it comes at a cost, it’s the ultimate diversification tactic, it allows someone else to carry the risk.
Coderan
1. Ohtani is not the model here. Look at Santander. He took serious deferrals on a much smaller contract.
2.. That is not how you diversify assets and I had finance professors who asked the lottery question: lump sum vs annuity and it is always 100% lump sum because you can reinvest the lump sum immediately. Whoever is selling to you or players that deferral are the same as diversifying is selling you a beach house in Idaho
JoeW 2
salary cap. top and bottom. Or retraction and the ynx and dogers can play in the WS every year. Win, win. Right.
LordD99
The Yankees and Dodgers played in the World Series for the first time in 43 years.
oldguyG
But how many times do they make the playoffs way greater % than the rest of the league. What % have they had a losing season. Sucks Major League Baseball have big cities their own media.
Yankee Clipper
In the past 15 years the Yankees and Rays have been to the same number of World Series appearances, and both have the same Series record.
Acoss1331
I have no problem with deferrals, every team has done at one point I’d have to assume, but when Shohei deferred 68 out of his 70 million AAV, that gave the Dodgers an incredible amount of flexibility to sign a ton of guys. My suggestion would be to limit how much a player can allow his salary to be deferred, and I think that’s a fair enough point for the next CBA.
Maybe get owners that refuse to spend even a little extra, to either do so or get them to sell to someone that doesn’t rely solely on the team’s revenue to make additional moves to the product on the field. Here’s one, Jerry Reinsdorf.
differentbears
Ohtani’s deal was a unicorn, just like he is. But it was Ohtani’s idea, not the Dodgers’. The Blue Jays were going to do it if he had chosen Toronto instead of Los Angeles.
Joemo
I think the issue here is that the edge case of deferring almost all of your contract on a massive deal was not considered when creating the rules and regulations around deferrals.
I think the easier solution, if there’s no salary cap, would be to count the full deferred amount towards the CBT. Problem solved. Or maybe have a max deferred savings amount for CBT purposes. That seems like a more fair compromise, still let the owners save a little bit cap it to like 10% AAV of the deal. So for Ohtani, 70MM AAV deal, deferr whatever you want but the luxury tax hit will be at least 63MM.
Señor Herps
Zack Scott should become a coach and leave reseach to real researchers.
jolf
Terrific article. I can hear MJBTR commenter heads exploding.
I didn’t get the point about there being some future risk to teams from deferred money, but that risk was reasonable for teams like LAD. Earlier in the article, the author makes the point that present values of deferred payments are in line with recent contracts without deferrals. If that’s the case, this isn’t a point about the risk from deferrals. Rather, the point is that large long-term contracts, with or without deferrals, pose some additional risk to teams.
Yankee Clipper
The only real risk occurs if MLB completely collapses, in which case the security for the financial investments won’t have the return, and they will suffer actual financial losses, imho. So….you’re right. No real risk, just hypothetical because a collapse won’t happen.
O'sSayCanYouSee
Yankee — Interesting.
Makes me wonder what a Lock Out/Strike does to those deferred payments?
Does it make it less likely the Owners will stomach long work stoppages?
Have the Players, by using the deferred model, strengthend their negotiating hand?
Yankee Clipper
That’s a really good point I hadn’t considered in the context of a work stoppage.
cbraves
I come here for facts, not someone telling me what my opinion should be. MLBTR is going in the toilet.
Joemo
You come to a site with rumors in the headline and you come here for facts? Interesting.
Not disagreeing with you, just fine that point interesting.
Yankee Clipper
I take these articles the other way, honestly. I take the authors’ articles with an implied, “Here’s my opinion based on my experience.” I know it’s not always worded that way, but like all of us, the authors’ opinions are going to be influenced by experiece (as a fan and in the business environment), intrinsic values, and education. I take from it what I can, I consider their information, and I try to formulate the best opinion I can with that information.
JoeBrady
I disagree. We live our whole lives revolving around things where we have little control. It is reasonable, and probably healthy, to have outlets where we can be emotionally involved in. We have, at least during our working lives, relatively little spare with which to enjoy ourselves.
BEISBALL
dodgers propaganda
Terry B
Jealousy is unbecoming!!
Drewnasty65
Baseball doesn’t have a competitive balance issue thought. It’s got the most parity of any sport in the country.
The Diamondbacks and Rangers were in the World Series in 2023. We haven’t had a repeat champion in 25 years!
This is all messaging for owners to cry poor in the next CBA. You are a fool if you think it’s anything else.
differentbears
Yup. Over half the league (16 of 30 teams) has won a World Series championship in the last 25 seasons.
Ghost of Willie Stargell
Maybe you should look at the big picture. While championships seem to be well spread among top half payroll teams, today parity exists in a league where the Dodgers have won 11 of 12 NL West titles and the Yankees haven had a sub .500 season since Monica Lewinsky was doing her thing is ridiculous.
Yankee Clipper
Ghost, but couldn’t the same be said for the bottom 1/3 teams who refuse to spend (even their share of revenue sharing money)? I mean, when teams intentionally tank that’s going to skew the winning landscape. And it doesn’t make his statement any less accurate: “baseball has the most parity {of any sport in the country}.”
When you compare it to the NFL (which most people try to do), LA winning 11/12 division titles is laughable compared to NE and then KC going to the Dance almost every year. PLUS they’re winning their divisions.
YourDreamGM
@Yankee Clipper Don’t blame you for never playing or watching football but it’s all QB. If you have a hall of fame one you will win a few superbowls or at least get to a few. All time great you win even more. Sure if you have a awesome running game or defense you can win without one. But to win multiple times usually takes a good qb.
Baseball 1 person doesn’t. See Trout Ohtani.
Basketball especially and even Hockey 1 person makes a difference. You can triple team Jordan while he has food poisoning and he can and will take the shot. Baseball you have to wait until 8 other guys take their shot. Until the golden bat that is!!
Yankee Clipper
GM: yes that’s true, and I used to be an avid fan of NFL and NBA. The problem, imho, is that the QB position cannot win by himself. Yes, it’s an important position, and 1 person makes much more a difference in the NFL than in baseball; but, there are still 11 opposing players that could nullify a QBs impact. NFL and NBA have become nearly unwatchable because of the current system. There is rarely, if ever, a surprise.
My point has always been that NFL is incomparable to MLB. The reason I use the comp is because so many use it as the prime example for why MLB should use a cap. They say NFL has parity (meaning competitive balance) because of the cap.
But, I think having a great QB does not make a dynasty. It’s the collective aggregation of talent with the QB that does. In short, a dynasty in NFL almost always requires a great QB, but a great QB does not result in a dynasty.
It’s not an easy issue to parse primarily because it requires agreement between the owners and players, which will not happen, imho.
Darthyen
@YourDreamGM I disagree that in basketball 1 person makes a difference. As good as Jordan was he did not win without the Bulls and more importantly head coach Phil Jackson (he won everywhere he went). I know head coaches don’t have the same stake in the game now as they did years ago (last I watched there was like a new head coach every couple months) but back in the day they made a big difference.
My point is you need a team, plus a good leader, in team sports. Sure in some sports one person can have a hugh impact but he does not always win or the Lakers would have like 8 extra rings by now. so that being said I kinda lean more towards what Yankee Clipper is saying.
YourDreamGM
@Yankee Clipper? 11 opposing players that could nullify a QBs impact. I suppose they could if you have a terrible line. I would say no wrs but Brady had some pretty weak ones. But a good qb and nothing else doesn’t equal super bowl. Steelers Patriots Cowboys 49ers. When they won super bowls they had stud qbs. Without those guys nothing. KC will be the same unless they get lucky 1 year or draft another stud. Why these teams will pass clearly better players in the draft for a qb. Ya you need more than just a QB for a dynasty. But the 1 constant of the dynasty is usually the QB. They key ingredient is qb. But yeah you can have a Joe Flaco and Dan Marino. Even Brady can’t win them all. Peyton was pretty good and had to cost him a few opportunities.
Most people are either stupid or greedy. They have agenda. Large market fans enjoy seeing their team in playoffs often. They like being able to buy their wins. Hear ridiculous things like your small market team is just cheap. Pocketing all the revenue. Even though you city has much less population with less income they can spend just as much! Rich teams would end revenue sharing. They are trying to grow the product not other owners personal net worth. Obviously small markets don’t think 100 vs 300 million is fair. And it’s obviously not.
Cap will level playing field. If you sign Rendon Bryant Boegarts you won’t do as good as you should. But if you have a decent gm you won’t be at a $ disadvantage. 100 vs 300. No argument. It’s not fair.
The NFL having parity is a awful argument. It doesn’t. 2 qbs dominated this century. Then if you had the next tier of a Manning Big Ben you get some. The only thing the cap does is if when you do draft a QB you can afford to keep them.
If I was NY LA fan I wouldn’t want a cap. I would enjoy spending 300 and beating down teams at 100. Yeah yeah Rays do well. Imagine how well if they could spend 3x more! If I owned NY LA I don’t want a cap. I want to keep my $. Already giving too much of it away.
If you are against a cap you are saying I like my team having a unfair advantage. And that’s fine. And you can build a winning team with 100. Doesn’t make it fair.
I don’t watch nfl nba or nhl. Nhl playoffs is a good product though last I watched. Nba is awful to me. I did watch the video of guy comparing 80s all star games to todays NBA finals. Nfl is boring. All commercials with some injuries and penalties mixed in. Returns used to be the most exciting play.
Don’t even watch much MLB. Watch more milb. But I watched mlb the least in the past. And once they expand the playoffs again the regular season will be worthless like the others so it makes good background noise. It’s like mlbtr. I get some free time I will click on article. If it’s Juan Soto trade I will make the time. If Ohtani Skenes are the nights pitchers I will probably make the time. Otherwise Dodgers will make playoffs likely win division so don’t care about them. White sox most likely won’t have a winning record so don’t care about them. Teams in mix for final spots are the only interesting ones. I get that some people really love baseball or have nothing else to do. It’s just me.
YourDreamGM
@Darthyen Fair enough. And basketball doesn’t compare to qb. Nothing does. And most great teams have 2 or 3 players. But there’s only 5 on the floor. And unlike hockey they play most the game. But agree you need more than 1. The statement is more of how much 1 player impacts. Like baseball you need 3 or 4 starters. They don’t go the entire game anymore so need 3 or 4 relievers. Lineups a heart of the order doesn’t get it done anymore. You need a deep lineup. Basketball you need 2 or 3 guys. And the cap allows this. Unfortunately the just letting players leave because they demand a trade is a problem. You get these super teams. Same could happen in mlb and is right now with Dodgers. But a cap would fix that as long as the owners policy is we don’t care if you want traded.
I personally don’t care if they ever play baseball again. I’ll find something else to do. Don’t care about a cap. My only points are what seem obvious to me. No 1 baseball player can impact a team like 1 player in other sports. 100 vs 300 isn’t a level playing field.
Drewnasty65
Nobody said that money doesn’t give you an advantage to help you keep your competitive window open longer. The Dodgers don’t just spend money though. They scout well, develop well, coach up their players. They are everything the Yankees think that they are and more.
andthenisaid
Are teams required to set aside money in the current year to cover the deferrals?
It seems to me that this is similar to living on credit cards. The more the Jones buy the more the Smiths want so they can keep up. This could be the fallacy of composition.
If all teams began to defer the percentage of the total roster cost the Dodgers are doing, couldn’t that lead to financial issues down the road?
Jason Hanselman
The disconnect for fans is that deferred money is treated differently than more traditional compensation when it comes to AAV purposes. Currently, deferred money is calculated on a Net Present Value (NPV) basis, while traditional is based on Future Value (FV). If the league were to simply calculate AAV across all contracts using an NPV approach it would solve a lot of the fans’ qualms AND it would lead to increased pay for non-superstar players. That Soto’s contract has an AAV of $51M, but Ohtani’s is $46M does not accurately describe the spending power of those deals. An NPV approach to calculating Soto would place his AAV at ~$42M, which is actually lower than Ohtani’s, but the team takes a hit amounting to a difference of $9M annually that may impact how much they are willing to pay another player who is closer to the margin.
bsky.app/profile/sandykazmir.bsky.social/post/3lgh…
Lindor's Bodyguard
Thank you all. I love reading posts by ignorant aggrieved fools. I will be back later. Keep on foolin.
Yankee Clipper
Hey! I may be ignorant, but don’t you dare call me aggrieved!
william-2
Everything he is pointing out is valid. The larger market teams set the market, fulfill the unions desires for upward record setting contracts and bring excitement in big names playing together in star studded rosters. He also points out the problem. Smaller markets are simply incubating talent for larger markets, and they do not have the wherewithal to poach elite talent, or retain elite talent.
If you look at the article he is spelling out the good and bad without any real solution. I think this is because he see’s that the deferrals aren’t really a problem, their ban not a solution, and that the underlying issue in competitiveness is not any individual contractual structure, but the simple fact that there is a massive advantage between have’s and have nots.
Squeeze32
it seems like a big problem is ohtani’s contract being announced as 10 years $700m. it was never 700 million. the dodgers have to put ~$43m in escrow each year of the 10 year deal while also paying him the $2m. both of those payments count against the dodgers’ cbt. it is only announced as a $700m contract to make it look huge. the dodgers gave ohtani a 10 year ~$460m contract that gets paid out over 20 years. the dodgers won’t be spending $68m of new money each of the 10 deferred years, ohtani will just gain access to the ~$43m that the dodgers put in escrow 10 years prior that has accrued interest and is now worth $68m. all of the money paid to ohtani per year has to be drawn from the dodgers’ account.
the issue is that the 10 years $700m gets reported first and everyone gets outraged and is checked out by the time the reporting comes out that its actually $460m.
sailaway
Has Scott had a few too many again? No one is blaming the Dodgers or Ohtani, they didn’t break any rules (gambling aside). Its not the deferrals that are the problem, its the loophole against the tax that is the problem and this needs to be fixed in the next cba along with implementing a salary floor. Also nothing should be grandfathered in, every team should be forced to adjust their roster to fit their payroll.
empirejim
So you think MLB will be given the right by the players union to unilaterally void contracts??? Thought this was a baseball forum, not fantasy….
sailaway
Why would anything be voided? Contracts remain the same, its an obligation upheld by the law. It would be the calculation of said contract by mlb in regards to the cbt that would change.
DroppedThirdStrike
They are already paying the CBT amount, just into escrow. You’re only screwing future Ohtani and everyone else who prefers to defer.
coachdit
Looking at this backwards, what is the league going to demand the dodgers forefeit to continue deferring salary?
fun guy
If the Walter’s or Cohens don’t need to pay the money today and defer $68m of Ohtanis salary for 10 years, that $68m will be worth $252m at their investment rates. So their investment rates are a huge advantage vs others
Bivouac-Sal
the money in escrow cannot be put to work on risk investments such as those that result in the 10% and 14% returns mentioned in the article. The escrow money has to be in risk free investments, or as close to risk free as possible.
empirejim
maybe the other owners should consider Guggenheim for their investment management? Not like there is a rule that says they have to do it on their own.
spiritof67
Deferrals aside, how about some form of international draft? My biggest gripe is with the Dodgers being able to gobble up all three of Japan’s best players for themselves. (OK Ohtani was an MLB free agent, fair enough, but not the other two.) If this were like the amateur draft, the Dodgers would have picked late and they’d have neither of them, or at least they’d have to wait until their free agent years down the road.
Bivouac-Sal
Imanaga, Maeda, Senga, Darvish, Matsui. Do I need to list the other Japanese players who went somewhere other than the Dodgers?
Niekro floater
Maeda n Darvish were Dodgers w/Kenta starting his career in LA. Not every Japanese player is going to sign w/Dodgers but going back to Nomo, the Dodgers have made real successful in-roads in recruiting players from NPB. In past yr they have acquired the 3 best players from NPB all in there prime. Gonna make for alot of Dodger hats n jerseys sold in Japan.
Bivouac-Sal
Darvish spent one season with LAD after signing with the Rangers for 5 years. You’re right on Maeda.
empirejim
It started in 1956 with a 20 game goodwill exhibition tour after the World Series. Representatives from the Yomiuri Giants were invited to Dodgers spring training that year. In 1965 Tommy Lasorda conducted baseball clinics in Japan, and the Dodgers played an 18-game exhibition series. Walter O’Malley, former Dodgers owner, received the highest honor for a non-Japanese person from the government of Japan in recognition of his efforts to foster Japan-US friendship through baseball. More exhibiitions, clinics, and front office mentoring followed through the years.
I guess it’s easy to gripe instead of putting in all the work. What you see happening today is the fruit of seven decades of groundwork that O’Malley had the foresight and dedication to embark on.
Bivouac-Sal
Apropo of nothing… to think I nearly hit O’Malley with a golf ball on his Dodger Pines course in Vero. He ducked. It missed him and he told me to play my ball back onto the fairway I should have been on. He probably could have had me hanged.
Super2
The notion that Ohtani wouldn’t have gotten $700M without deferrals is absurd. Soto got more without deferrals. Even at $70M a year Ohtani would be a bargain and create a ton of surplus value to an organization. Not to mention Ohtani specifically asked for this structure so his organization could have more money to spend on players to help him.
empirejim
Facts and commentors rarely co-exist peacefully. I expect the full deferral meltdown after this drop…
sailaway
Are you not a commentator?
empirejim
No, Im a commentor, a rare type.
CarverAndrews
Comments sections are here to remind us yet again how painfully stupid and identity-driven a far too large cross-section of people really are, as we wake up every day now to the cult of magatville putting their chosen dear leader in the driver’s seat.
As cynical as I have become regarding human nature, every day I have to be reminded that, in fact, I am still an optimist as it is hard to believe how dumbed down we have indeed become here in the US and elsewhere.
JSC Cubbs
“focusing on deferrals for the next Collective Bargaining Agreement would be a misguided effort”
So the 20-25 teams losing CBT revenue should… not try to get their money? That sounds like an excellent buisness practice.
Many or most of us aren’t really crying foul that the dodgers will pay Ohtani 700 million over 10 years, or about when he is getting that money,a 20 year payout is fine.
But you either need to make the dodgers have a tax number of 70 million for all 10 years he’s under contract (the AAV of the contacted paying time) or 35 million for all 20 years he’s getting paid (the AAV of the pay out years).
In 15 or 20 years the value of 35 million dollars at the time will be.. 35 million dollars at the time. This eliminates speculative inflation and stops allowing this tax dodging.
This article is a wanna be persuasive peice from a B- buisness student who wants to be in the finance club.
DroppedThirdStrike
This has been explained no less than multiple hundreds of times and in this article to a highly detailed degree. I understand that you don’t understand and will never understand.
Here’s a juice box and a pat on the head…
JSC Cubbs
I’ll gladly take that juice box, but it’s really dangerous to pat anybody on the head, don’t touch strangers without consent.
Nah, it hasn’t been explained, we just have several weak attempts to justify it.
Using deferral CBT logic, any salary paid after year 1 of a contract should count as less because money in year 2 isn’t as valuable as today money, right?
But that just isn’t how we do things, and never has been.
This is and always has been finance bro math used to say old money is worth more than new money. It’s a simple tax cheat, that’s why they are doing it, you love it because it benefits people you like.
DroppedThirdStrike
Full confession- after I wrote that I went and got a juice box.
Money in year one isn’t deferred til year two, it’s deferred til year 11, and is worth significantly less. But it does have the opportunity to grow for 10 years.
It definitely is not a tax cheat, I just think it’s an interesting tool. But mostly I’m indifferent to it because it really doesn’t mean that much.
JSC Cubbs
Alright, it’s a tax reduction trick, not cheat. A way to reduce taxes on the actual amount of dollars a player will receive for their services.
I accept that you took my juice box you offered, I’ll get my own. Cheers.
BlueSkies_LA
In terms of taxes, if anything it has the opposite effect.
El Niño
“They’re not a circumvention tool around the Competitive Balance Tax (CBT) rules.”
This is actually my biggest issue with deferrals. If a player agrees to play for 10 years in exchange for 700 million dollars, it should count as 70 million against the CBT. And they should increase the amount teams have to payout to smaller market teams for blowing past the CBT.
LordD99
After reading the comments, it’s clear most MLBTR readers don’t understand finance.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Look, I don;t know if this guy who wrote this article talked down to all of us like the one commenter above so eloquently stated
All….. I remember is a Tax Professor so eloquently stated, when he was helping someone with their taxes as a Community Project
He said, he laid out all the Bull Schiste and presented all the options to the person…. The Professor was an expert in his field! and that is what the author of the article did here today. However, the author has lost sight, as have so many owners and someone like Scott Boras.and Ohtani’s agent……. Baseball is a sport, that is why it exists….. it does not exist because some Brainiac,knows how to avoid financial potholes through legal loopholes
All these financial gymnastics are spiffy, but I want the sport of Baseball to return to sport!!!,
Salzilla
“They’re not a circumvention tool around the Competitive Balance Tax (CBT) rules.”
I had to pause here. Yeah of course it is! It’s not just to close ONE deal, it’s to close close multiple deals getting them all in under the CBT. Saying otherwise is disingenuous.
But absolutely, there’s plenty of risk of these long term deferrals and this article points out why you don’t see small market teams indulging more. The future is unknown with many of these teams, but even at the top you never know how the market will fluctuate. I think it’s more of a risk to a player to let that much money hang out for so long.
Either way, it’s legal yes, and LAD aren’t doing anything inherently wrong, but it’s still an advantage that needs to be limited. There’s has to be a universal percentage that a team can defer. The CBT hits cannot be circumvented as much as LA has done. That’s bananas.
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
It’s a circumvention of cbt tax thresholds
Ohtani signs a 10 year 700 mill contract no deferrals it’s 70 mill a year
Ohtani signs a 10 year 700 mill contract 680 mill deferred works out to 46 mill cause “future money”
Aav was still lowered by deferring money no matter how you try to spin it.
stand
Furthermore, the no deferral contract could hypothetically be extremely backloaded (such as 1 mill per year for the first 9 years, then the remaining $691 mill in year 10), and the CBT hit would still be the full $70 mill per year even though the present value was substantially lower. CBT benefits from deferrals are **not** “overstated”; deferrals are the only type of contract structure that recalculates the CBT hit to the (often much lower) present value. Teams financially positioned to be able to offer large deferrals have a tremendous competitive advantage over teams that cannot.
Therealeman
This guy says deferrals aren’t the issue, but the more he wrote the more he said they ARE the issue, allowing the Dodgers primarily to satisfy players’ egos while outbidding everyone else.
Yankee Clipper
That’s really what I ended up concluding too.
Chester Copperpot
Don’t believe your lying eyes everyone.
Chester Copperpot
Dodgers suck. What a stupid team.
Bivouac-Sal
What a well thought out intelligent argument Chester.
Chester Copperpot
You can write well thought out responses to propaganda articles all you want. The real takeaway from this offseason is the Dodgers have a stupid team that only an LA fan could possibly like. I actually like Ohtani less now that he’s surrounded by all-stars at just about every position. People watch sports for the competition. It’s the unknown. Anyone can win. When a sport starts stacking one team with talent that far outweighs all other teams. Something is broken. So, I’m sorry if I didn’t take enough words to spell out my sentiments to you, I thought “what a stupid team” was pretty self-evident, but I guess some are slower than others.
Bivouac-Sal
First of all you didn’t comment on the article. You simply said the Dodgers are a “stupid team.” And that is what I responded to and which in itself speaks volumes about you. Making the argument that the Dodgers are too good to be interesting to you at least has a modicum of thought behind it. I am glad you could muster that much.
Chester Copperpot
It speaks volumes of me that I think the Dodgers are stupid? Okay buddy. Pick a fight with someone else. My opinion is entirely valid, regardless what you think. Both your comments addressed my comment and not the article. How about you relax and stop being the comment police?
Troy Percival's iPad
This is the most intelligent take I’ve seen so far.
A list of stupid contracts they have:
-Blake Snell, unless he stays 100% healthy
-Tyler Glasnow
-Michael Conforto
-Tanner Scott
-Chris Taylor
-Kirby Yates
-Blake Treinen
-Tommy Edman
-Miguel Rojas
-Ryan Brasier
-Austin Barnes
26 Active roster spots and they have 11 stupid contracts? The house of cards is getting flimsier and flimsier
Royals84
It seems to me that mainstream baseball media and it’s writers are mostly player’s union shills only parading “a fair discussion” in order to calm down the fan outrage in anticipation for the next CBA. We’ve already voiced our disdain and disgust; we want some sort of floor and cap. We want to get closer to true competive balance. Deferrals need more guardrails in regards to how it affects the luxery tax thresholds. Many of us are ready to miss a season or so to accomplish this.
Royals84
If you listen/watch/read more independent sources of baseball media you can actually get a more honest discussion about this problem.
stand
Look at this guy’s background, he is a shill for MLB not the player’s union. They aren’t even hiding it as “mainstream media” anymore, this is direct propaganda.
billy09
Do you think the hard cap that will almost certainly suppress player salaries will somehow be put back into the product on the field or will those profits just go into the owner’s pockets?
sufferforsnakes
Tell me you’re a tool for wealthy owners without telling me you’re a tool for wealthy owners.
LevonCat
I’ve been a Red Sox fan for over 40 years and had to Google Zack Scott to find out who he is.
Scott Boras want to be is the answer.
It’s obnoxious that he claims to be part of the team. He was an admin, who can’t get a job in baseball anymore.
Oh, but he has consulted with the Penguins and Pirates in recent years!
Oh. Yeah. Great work, they are both powerhouses.
Jbigz12
He was an assistant GM kept on through multiple regime changes in Boston and served as an acting GM for the Mets. I see you also omitted he consulted for the Rangers in 2023 when the won the WS.
Probably half decent. But go on!
Yankee Clipper
Zach Scott: Welcome to MLBTR and thank you for providing your insider’s experience.
While I do understand your points, and I don’t have a problem with deferrals, In my opinion, spending time addressing deferrals for the purpose of tweaking the rules governing them wouldn’t be wasted. Perhaps it shouldn’t be a priority for either side, but there does seem to be relevance in curbing how they’re used.
From my perspective, it seems the deferrals have been used to appeal to players’ egos without affecting current- value CBT (in other words the Ohtani CBT hit is accurate for today’s dollars); but, they are actually deferring real money that is set aside for future payment. At 10% interest (based on your article), the Dodgers are making money on that deferred money.
Also, from a negotiations standpoint, if the primary motivator is player ego, as you’ve articulated, then the use of deferrals to reach insane contractual numbers is providing that very specific advantage, right?
Now, my team doesn’t use deferrals (Yankees), but I also don’t care if teams do because it’s permissible. And, as you well know from the Mets, deferrals have been used for at least 40 years. I do think that deferrals have more of an impact though than what’s stated. For example, if Lindor’s primary motivator was $341MM, but deferrals weren’t utilized, he may not be with the Mets (probably the Dodgers…lol).
I also don’t believe the Dodgers would be spending this freely without the use of deferrals, thus the talent may have been more dispersed.
You did add a snippet about a hard cap, but I think would be misguided as well. The primary issue to address is forcing owners to spend the money they’re already getting from revenue sharing for the purpose of competitive balance. The bottom 1/3 or so is intentionally hoarding money and not competing, thereby creating an intentional competitive imbalance. After that, incremental adjustments could be made to tweak existing rules without ruining the league like the NBA and NFL have done.
Sactown dodgers
Good article. Salary deferrals are a part of the equation but not the only factor. But the Dodgers have over $1 billion in salary deferrals while the next highest amount is roughly $60 million in deferrals. As an investment firm, if Guggenheim simply invested the deferred salary in the SP500 in 2024, then they made $250 million additional revenue just in 2024. They likely beat the SP500 and the additional revenue likely exceeded $300 million last year. That is equal to average mlb team revenue in total, and could have funded their entire 2024 payroll just on the incremental earnings on deferred salary in 2024. Maybe that is why the Dodgers are spending so much this year.
tigerdoc616
Of course Mr Scott comes at this from a very biased angle. While he presented some interesting points, there was also a lot of biased opinion in this piece. The ability to use deferrals to sign players is not a tool for every franchise. Even Hal Steinbrenner came out recently basically saying even he could not do what the Dodgers are doing. The conservative nature of the present value calculations might elevate the AAV of the contract in comparison to a more “realistic” return might be. But that is why guys like Guggenheim and Cohen do it. They can make more on the money that is not paid now through investing and make even more money in the long run. You would think that is available to all teams but not all teams have the skill these two do or the resources and revenue streams to do it.
While I understand the vanity of players wanting to have that contract with that ‘magic number,’ it still sickens me that such a thing is that important to a player. Plus, fans of smaller market teams want to feel like their team has a chance. Right now, most do not given how the Dodgers and to a lesser extent the Mets are spending. They have no hope that their best players will stay with their team. They have little hope that their team can really be competitive. Sure, the Dodgers have turned into the league’s current villain. Whether that is beneficial to the league in the long term remains to be seen. There is real concern that this massive competitive imbalance due to massive revenue imbalance is a threat to the long-term health of baseball.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Hal isn’t a good example of someone to quote. The Yankees don’t use deferrals in contract negotations. He also said last season that the Yankees having a $300M payroll isn’t “sustainable” but yet the team is entering another season with a $300M+ payroll. Going to the WS may have changed his mind. They *didn’t* need to sign Max Fried and could’ve kept Nestor Cortes to help stay under the third CBT tier. “Couldn’t” and “won’t” are two very different stances to have.
DroppedThirdStrike
Are you saying that there are 29 teams that can’t afford a private financial investor to maximize returns on a deferral? Or that they won’t share the personal private equity manager that every single owner in MLB already has with the team that they own?
These are all highly successful and intelligent people. If they aren’t using deferrals it isn’t because they can’t but because they’ve already decided that they don’t want to.
kevro2139
Padres want to give judge money over 14 years to lower the burden, MLB would have vetoed it.
Dodgers want to pay Shohei over 20 years for only 10 years of playing time and paying only $2m in actual dollar each year he actually plays, to lower the burder, totally fine, and shut up, everyone can do this.
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
Idc how much you defer
But
10 years 700 mill needs to be 70 mill aav towards the cbt tax threshold over the course of playing time.
Cbt tax thresholds should be two folded. We may not need salary cap but we should certainly have penalties if teams spend under a certain amount like says 100 mill. If you’re 20 mill under that’s first cbt threshold 40 mill under next one and so on. And penalties for going over cbt should be increased.
Also teams should be forced to pay interest on deferred money. Ohtani agreeing to no interest shouldn’t be an option. Deferrals come with interest paid between says 3-6% percent.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
The Piper has been at the Gates of Dawn, WAITING TO BE PAID FOR OVER 60 YEARS NOW!
Instead, he gets lied about by people who were raised to be criminals…..
DroppedThirdStrike
The interest is paid on the deferral. That’s why Ohtani is paid $700MM on a $460MM contract.
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
“ Shohei Ohtani will receive just $20 million of his $700 million contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers over the next 10 years, with $680 million payable from 2034-43 in an unusual structure that gives the team greater payroll flexibility in coming seasons.
Ohtani’s record-setting deal, agreed to Saturday, calls for annual salaries of $70 million, according to details obtained by The Associated Press. Of each year’s salary, $68 million is deferred with no interest, payable in equal installments each July 1 from 2034-43.”
– AP News
Interest should be applied to the 680 million he’s deferred. Pushing 680 million into the future the dodgers should be forced to pay interest on 680 million when they pay it out from 2034-2043. So for 9 years it accumulates interest
DroppedThirdStrike
AP News has it wrong. The details have been reported on this hundreds of times. $46 million is paid into the escrow account each year. It accumulates for 10 years, and due to the magic of compound interest, it turns into $70 million when it is due to be disbursed. Guggenheim Group will put it into investments that will grow it more than that, and will keep any extra that accumulates beyond the $70 million.
Dodgers pay $46MM
Ohtani receives $68MM
Guggenheim nets an additional $10MM or so
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
Trusted news source vs made up idea. Gotta go with AP news
680 mill deferred
2 mill salary for 10 years
Equals 700 mill
68 mill to be paid out each year 2034-2043
Your math says he’ll be paid out 70 mill from 2034-2043
So your math isn’t adding up if you’re getting more than the agreed upon amount (700 mill vs 720 mill in your estimate).
But if the deferred amount is agreed to be 680 mill dodgers should have to pay interested on the 680 mill over the next 9 years prior to disbursing his deferred payments over a 10 year period.
James Midway
So all I learned was that Zack Scott is a pen name for Ken Rosenthal,
beboplar
The Dodgers treat their finances like politicians treat debt. One day 50% of the US GNP will go to service debt. One day 50% of the Dodgers payroll will go to pay deferred contracts.
Sooner or later you have to pay the piper.
DroppedThirdStrike
Wow. No. Not even close.
Troy Percival's iPad
If the Dodgers win 3 of the next 4 World Series, that would make up for only winning once in the last 10 years, plus 2020. It is pitiful, if anything, the amount of resources (money) they have put into the team for one (1) title.
If they win 4 of the next 5 after that, then MAYBE they should level the playing field.
If Pittsburgh and Kansas City want to catch up, both teams could start with developing a good old fashioned 35 home run/100 rbi Right Fielder who bats 2nd or 3rd, anchors the National League’s line up at the All-Star Game, and is in serious consideration for a Gold Glove while running away with a Silver Slugger award. It has been 40 or 50 years since Pittsburgh had one of those, and Kansas City has NEVER had one.
They… spent more than any other team on their starting rotation? Okay? They don’t get an award for having a fleet of Jeep Wranglers that break down every 10,000 to 30,000 miles. Just because the Wranglers have a bunch of rims and a gold plated steering wheel with a duck in the middle of it doesn’t mean it’s going to be more reliable of a car.
Pretend anyone except the Dodgers signed Kirby Yates for $12 million and gave Tanner Scott 4/$72 and you’re laughing in the same way you laughed when the Yankees gave Jacoby Ellsbury stupid money. Have fun with that.
Old York
Too many crybabies when it comes to their team. Your team isn’t any good and the owners don’t care about whether they win or not. Either accept that fact or find a better team to cheer for. Problem solved!
Doron
In my opinion, deferals are very much a CBT circumvention.
I hope that in the next CBA negotiations, all owners except the Dodgers vote to retroactively count past deals that will be active in the next CBA to count 100% against the CBT during the deal.
So say Ohtani’s $700 million for 10 years would count as $70 million against the CBT.
Bett’s $365 million for 10 as well, Scott’s $72 million as well….
To clarify, all said salary should count forwards, after the new CBA is ratified.
The dodgers are saving millions on Luxury tax by defering all that money.
They should be paying.
JayRyder
Agreed. They should pay if that’s the rules. This deferral stuff is payroll manipulation. Ok, They got away with it. Now MLB has to address it.
dan-9
It’s not payroll manipulation because without the deferrals, Ohtani’s contract would have been far less than $700 million. Luxury tax is always, ALWAYS calculated based on a contract’s present value. That’s why deferrals make no difference. $700 million mostly deferred for 10 years = $460 million today.
DroppedThirdStrike
Don’t, just don’t. They either choose to not understand or are the guys who crush beer cans on their heads while watching Joe Dirt for the 25th time.
whyhayzee
If some small market teams were using deferrals and that was helping them be more competitive, everyone would say, “Wow, that’s brilliant.”
End of story.
Doron
If small market teams were defering money, they would go bankrupt or be forced to have a $40-$50 million payroll until all the deferals cleared from their payroll.
whyhayzee
They would go bankrupt if they were foolish and didn’t set the money aside in really good investment vehicles. You don’t spend what you don’t have. That’s cash flow management and a fool’s game. You are simply taking the money you would have paid today and keeping it.
Doron
Small market teams cannot project revenue like a big market team.
A huge factor in what the dodgers are doing is projecting that they will get the big money tv deal, and fill up their stadium to the brim, and have the revenue they need to be able to invest said deferals and profit on it.
Can the Rays project what they will bring in 5 years down the line?
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
“Psh, how come those teams cant put money into a good investment deal?”
Thats your solution lmao? Hope teams pick the right investment opportunity to afford deferrals?
That alone should tell you how broken the deferral system is if your first thought it “gamble the money in an investment that may or may not pay off as expected”
Karensjer
The Rays will make whatever $ternberg’s bottom line is (however many million that is). The nickels and dimes that make above the bottom line will be spent on token free agent signings of quadruple A players that will make up the core of a team that hits a collective .190 but is stellar on defense.
whyhayzee
If Social Security can be projected 75 years then the Rays can surely project 5.
Just because the government does nothing about those projections doesn’t mean the Rays shouldn’t.
Bring San Diego Fleet to the NFL
Bad analogy
Social security is easoer to project cause its based on working age individuals; its a finite number that ranges between a low estimate and high estimate
Revenue is dependent on things in constant flux like attendance, prices of goods and services, and many other things that vary how much a team makes year to year let alone 5 years down the road.
If you had asked teams to project their revenue 5 years down the road from middle of Ts 1st term into middle of Bs term many projections would have been significantly off.
dan-9
Your complaint is that some teams have more money to spend than other teams. That’s sort of true (although not as much as you probably think, because revenue sharing equalizes a lot of it). But that has nothing specifically to do with deferrals.
Deferrals are not payroll manipulation. They’re just not. Pointing this out is not “propaganda”, it’s not “telling people how to feel”. It’s just stating a fact.
whyhayzee
Social Security is in no way easier than a five year revenue projection, I’ve done both.
DroppedThirdStrike
Yes they can. That should tell you your level of financial literacy that you refer to investing as “gambling”.
Mikenmn
It’s a good explainer, regardless of whether you agree with deferrals. Good management, deep pockets, and good drafting/development give the Dodgers a huge head start, So does a lot of winning, because most players prioritize money–but on a team that has a chance of at least competing. One of the great ironies in the game is that guys like Trout never see the playoffs even when they are healthy.–and Trout;’s team spent plenty of money. The idea of a salary cap requires the players to accept limits when they’ve already paid their dues with low salary minor leagues, then MLB minimum, then arb (subject to service time manipulation) and finally free agency, by which time most of them are 30-ish and each year after 30 puts a dent in their earnings potential. What are the Owners offering in return for that? A significant salary floor? I’m nit hearing that. More revenue-sharing? Not hearing that either. Sharing of local taxpayer subsidies to teams threatening to leave? Uh uh, not happening.. How about us:? A cap on tickets and concessions? In my dreams. If anyone has a better solution that creates greater equity and doesn’t just come out of the players, they should lay it out there. Players have no obligation to us to take less–especially when the owners don’t revenue-share with the fans or the taxpayer.
Bounty Hunters IA
Deferring $680
Million dollars is circumventing the luxury tax. The end
Calsurf
What all these anti Dodger articles are missing is the team leads the league in attendance both home and away. If you people are upset then stop going to their games. Since that won’t happen, how about get your owners to spend money and not use your team as an ATM.
Coderan
I do want my owner to spend more but I am not attending Dodgers games?
zack novotny
This comment might not be seen by anyone because it’s to far down lol…
Here are my two cents coming from a die hard Dbacks fan…
I don’t care personally how much you spend. It’s not guaranteed that you’ll win by spending money. The rays, Indians, and even the dbacks in 2023 and many other teams do well without dropping $300m to buy a team. Buying teams does give you a better chance to make the playoffs but it doesn’t change the beautiful fact of baseball. Having a team with good chemistry that plays well together is better than buying players and putting them together. The dodgers could very well win the WS again next year but you know what? I bet you 1 even maybe 2 teams from the lower half of payroll will make it to the playoffs as well.
It kind of reminds me of the Eagles when they had their “Dream Team” I think it was like 2011 or something with Vince Young and Vick and everyone else and they went like 8-8.
I want a free market and I couldn’t care less how much they spend. Honestly, spend as much as you want because now if they don’t win…. That pressure of being mediocre with so much money on payroll could devastate a franchise.
Coderan
As a fan of that Eagles “Dream Team”, I did think of this at first but I can’t say it was the same. There is a cap in the NFL and we got it wrong and those players sit on the cap. But also we were able to fix that enough to reach 3 Super Bowls since. Free agency was a big part but we needed that homegrown talent. Dodgers JUST won the WS, they replace their average developed player with stars on the market, and by the time they’d feel the $ implications, the $ wont even be worth the same. I agree spending doesn’t guarantee a win but as a Philly fan I must point to the 2009 Yankees. You can buy your way there in baseball.
Doron
baseball has nothing to do with chemistry.
On offense, the hitter either performs or not. (performs could be moving the baserunner up with a well hit out, a hit, a walk…)
The baserunner either has a brain or does not.
On D, the defender either catches the ball, or not, throws it accurately or not.
The Pitcher and Catcher HAVE to have chemistry, this much I will give in on the subject of chemistry in baseball.
Bivouac-Sal
apparently you have never played the game
bruinlife33
Let’s revisit the first sentence of this article in 5 to 6 years
GabeOfThrones
lol at the Ken Jennings reference. An amazing streak that doesn’t get nearly enough recognition!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“While fans of smaller-market teams may express frustration over the financial disparities, eliminating deferrals won’t solve their economic concerns.”
OK.
So…
What will…?
The answer is always nothing.
JoJo Royal
The gaslighting is huge! The problem here is that if that the dodgers wouldn’t have been able to sign Tanner Scott, Blake Snell and bring back Hernandez. They would be forced to make a trade or two for cheaper options. Right now they can literally do whatever they want. This is definitely bad for baseball.
JayRyder
Agreed.
Karensjer
Great article, but how do you solve the rich teams spending and smaller markets not spending? Until you can bridge the gap between small and large market teams and the difference in spending, the league is just going into a downward spiral and a future lockout.
Terry B
Dodger Brass….keep doing what you’re doing! Let the whiners whine and cheap owners will keep squirming in their cozy chairs, pocketing profits and screwing their fans!
Mookie's Wager
I enjoyed the inside perspective and the nuance this article shared. More important than a salary cap for baseball would be a floating salary floor, minimum of 51% of all team revenues should be spent on the 40 man roster. The “books” should be open and 3rd party audited.
bcjd
Interesting insider view of Mookie’s departure from Boston. FSG had a hard cap at $300mm. Betts wanted to get the “second highest total value “ headline.
I think FSG should have gone the extra mile.
BridegroomFan2
Thoughtful column by someone in the know and don’t officially have a dog in the fight. It acknowledges the inequalities in baseball and argues the case that deferrals are just a side show. I don’t agree with all the points but at least gives food for thought.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
There is already a planned strike everyone agrees will happen 2027?
If so….
I think I will walk away.
Permanently.
CJRed73
Great piece with actual facts provided by someone who has been part of the front office process.
The Dodgers are signing everybody but ask yourself: “why did other teams not swoop in first?”. The answer: “Because team owners are content with sneaking into the playoffs with 85 wins and then handing games over to the bullpen.”
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Why did Magic and company buy the Dodgers instead of YOU?
Because you are clearly content with losing out while they have a winner’s mentality.
Obviously.
Fernando P
Past returns are not indicative of future returns. That’s what investors are always told.
Applying more than what the historical market returns is risky, even if those two firms make more. What were the historical returns for Bernie Madoff? How did that work out for the Mets & The Wilpons when he stole their money.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Using (non-team owner) Bernie Madoff as a comp is disingenuous at best as he ran an illegal Ponzi scheme. We should assume Walters and Cohen have legit operations as MLB does have a vetting process prior to approving their respective purchases of their franchises.
Fernando P
@YBC – I don’t see mentioning Madoff as disingenuous. It was an example that we can’t assume that Guggenheim & Cohen will always outpace the market.
No critique on the legitimacy of those firms. I’m sure they invest these player deferral money in safer/lower interest vehicles. There’s still risk in those firms making less in the future.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Of course there is always risk. Nobody knows when the next bubble burst will occur. However, they’ve both built their grand fortunes based on their reputations and results of beating the public markets.
biff_pocoroba
Hell yeah, an accounting article!
BabyBoyBlueDiamond
Deferrals aren’t the problem… over $1 billion in deferrals is.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Yep.
A red herring of HOW they pay to distract from the actual issue of HOW MUCH.
Sactown dodgers
The Dodgers have over $1 billion in deferred salary, which is about 20 times more than the next highest team. The owners of the Dodgers are Guggenheim an investment firm. If they simply invested the $1 billion in the SP500 in 2024, then they made an additional,$250 million in revenue just last year. That is in addition to revenue from attendance, a huge TV contract, sponsorships including new ones in Japan and other revenue.
The Dodgers may have funded their entire payroll in 2024 just from investment earnings on deferred salaries. If so, that would represent a huge advantage for the Dodgers. Not sure why writers or prior GM like Zack Scott would not point this out.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Thanks Tim and MLBTR crew!
Look forward to more of your insightful and thoughtful input, Zack!
siddfinch1079
Scared money don’t make money.
anoff
Does anyone actually think deferrals are the problem, or even a problem?
Cause I’m pretty sure the problem is that the dodgers make so much more profit than everyone else, that they can afford to bribe the rest of the league into letting them do what ever they want via revenue sharing and luxury tax. 1/3 of the owners don’t care about winning, as long as they keep getting their revenue/tax sharing check on the first and the fifteenth
highflyballintorightfield
Actual news of signings: 30-40 comments.
20th explanation of salary deferrals for the boneheads who still don’t get it: 260 comments.
Rollie's Mustache
Great piece, Zack. And thanks to MLBTR for bringing in someone with direct industry knowledge.
To the angry fans in the comment section, maybe direct your hate towards your own team’s cheap owner instead. The thing MLB and certain media members want you to believe is that your billionaire owner is losing money running a $90MM payroll. Not every team can spend to the Dodgers’ level, no. But they CAN afford a marquee free agent every now and then.
The Bob Nuttings of the sport are what’s ruining competitive balance, not the Dodgers.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
This is either the most economically ignorant or dismissively disingenuous of the arguments in this debate.
Little table top exercise…
The Rays, Pirates, A’s, etc. all start spending triple what they spend now.
What do the Yankee, Mets, Dodgers, etc. do?
“Say to themselves….well, gosh darnnit, we were trying to use our superior resources to gain an advantage in the market, but now these others teams are doing it, too. Guess we’ll just have to idly sit here and let them catch up to us, even though we can also spend triple what we spend now and still be profitable.”
OR
They’ll just spend more, too and retain their advantage.
Which do you consider the more likely scenario?
Citizen1
I’m sure an mlb team can buy a story on their headliner deal without it being top dollar.
Sounds like a way to vent the system if the cba agrees to a luxury tax and ownership found their loophole.
drilliams88
Dang this is some crazy glazing for the Smurfs.
Darthyen
As a Blue Jays fan I have no issues with what the Dodgers did. They only have 26 spots and soon most, if not all, spots will be filled with multiyear contracts. So they are the Belle of the ball this year, a couple years ago it was the Padres and Braves before that and next year it might be the Red Sox or Phillies. baseball keeps rolling and a different team wins the World Series.
P.S. the biggest problem with baseball parity, is owners who won’t spend the money they have!!!! Oh look the Athletics all of a sudden have money, it must be from all the gate revenue they got last year…hahahhhahahah. Money was there all along.
GarryHarris
This is how things are reported these days. Opinions that state that the truth is just lies.
bigalcathey
Deferrals seem to be becoming more and more of a higher percentage of the contract, but for some of these athletes that don’t take care of their finances, that deferred money is a boon later on, sometimes even years after they’ve retired.
Informed Sportsball Discussion
“…focusing on deferrals for the next Collective Bargaining Agreement would be a misguided effort…”
Well, good news. The conversation has shifted to a straight up salary cap.
“Baseball’s ‘Goliaths,’ as Scott Boras calls them, drive higher interest and TV ratings, ultimately benefiting all MLB teams.”
Why bother with small-market teams then? Pare the league down to just the goliaths, and call it a day.
JoeBob33
Interesting stuff. But conclusions don’t add up for me.
“[C]reative contract structures, including deferrals, can be the key to finding common ground. If this flexibility didn’t exist, reaching those critical ‘magic numbers’ would become significantly more challenging. This could lead to longer, more drawn-out negotiations—a scenario that already frustrates many baseball fans.“
I don’t buy it. Players and their agents would adjust. Immediately.
And what frustrates fans is not the length of negotiations—it’s every freaking good player signing with the Dodgers.
Darthyen
Its crazy how some people are all upset over deferrals like they are some new thing the Dodgers created and are ruining baseball with it. If memory servers me correct the Mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla. Just checked and they are along with Brett Saberhagen……….people should look up how long ago it was since they played and will see its not a new thing and it didn’t ruin baseball then and won’t now.
Jagsmanohman
“It’s crazy how”
Is it? Lol
Citizen1
They were paying deferrals before, yes, but there wasn’t a luxury tax to circumvent. Nationals are the most recent team followed by the Mets to be hindered on deferrals because they paid top dollar with money deferred and in the deferral years they had losing teams but financially hindered due to payroll deferred Obligations. They couldn’t sign free agents since they had an albatross of dead money.
Redstitch108* 2
Go pound sand. Dodgers, Yankees and Mets are Satan. Baseball is broken.
timd-3
The Dodgers are in a tier all by themselves. They own Dodger Stadium and all the parking lots around it, all free and clear. They get every cent of revenue from parking, concessions, in-stadium advertising and their 4M+ ticket sales. They own the TV station that broadcasts the games. They get every cent of revenue from the advertising, not just a rights fee like most teams get. They also sell more merchandise world-wide than probably the rest of the NL combined, especially since signing Shohei. Their financial calculus is different than any team in MLB, even the Yankees.
Angels & NL West
Zack, I’m guessing this article did not illicit the comments you were expecting. Still want to contribute periodically on MLBTR?
sirius.c
Deferrals aren’t an issue unless the franchise that wants to give them to acquire top talent just can’t afford to do so. It’s perception. But it’s also a lack of fairness (as it’s always been). The playing field has never been level and without some sort of Cap in place it’ll always look one sided (and to some extent IS one sided).
Regardless, top players make too much. Enough so that they price themselves away from 80 percent of the teams right off the bat. No smaller market teams can seriously compete with that which adds to the need for a salary cap.
Loading up a team of superstars at top dollar value isn’t the vision MLB had for the game. That’s just an unfair advantage that most of the league cannot even come close to replicating.
The rich aren’t supposed to be getting richer in sports, it’s supposed spread out and keep all parties interested/involved/moving forward and building the product as a whole, not loading one team up and stacking the deck in their favor.
JayRyder
BS Article. Period. And will be addressed in the next CBA. It’s hurting the game with legal cheating. Ok it’s exposed now. It happens. But Ohtani really milked it with his deal. No thanks Baseball.
Bounty Hunters IA
I don’t care about the future dollars versus current dollars nonsense. If the contract is stated as 10 years $700 million then the lux tax number is $70 million per year. The fact that so much is deferred is 100% circumventing the lux tax. Paying him only $2 million a year and not $70 is a cheat of the system. I know all the arguments about it’s actually $46 million a year because of the BS calculations and if that’s what they pay towards the lux tax it’s better than just the $2 million. The point of the referrals that is cheating the system for all teams is that the other either $68 million per year or the $24 million under the $70 should at some point count against the future luxury tax. Defer all you want and kick the can down the line but they still need to pay it towards the tax at some time.
DroppedThirdStrike
It’s paid year by year. And calling what you don’t understand ‘BS’ doesn’t cover up the fact that you don’t understand it.
Everyone who understands deferrals are ok with deferrals.
Rsox
It seems the basic point of this op-ed was to point out that deferrals are a smoke and mirrors distraction from the bigger problem of payroll disparity in MLB. The best possible solution to this is to implement a salary floor, not a salary cap. A floor at least guarantees that the smaller market teams that receive large amounts of revenue sharing dollars use that money for its intended purposes rather than just enriching the owners. There should not be a team/owner that cannot operate with a $150 million dollar roster, seeing teams with $70-90 million dollar payrolls is ridiculous in this day and age
Paleobros
Dodgers fans should be hyped of course, but they’re left in the odd position of having their team probably win the division again and again, and it won’t feel like anything, and if they win the WS again, it’ll feel good but not great because it’s somewhat expected, and if they don’t win the WS, it’ll be a massive failure. Great to have a great team, of course, but the potential for just pure sports joy seems dulled.
Lanidrac
While the deferrals are misleading as to the actual values of the contracts, the Dodgers are still using them to such a ridiculous degree that it still otherwise would’ve cost them significantly more in even present-day value to have otherwise signed some of these guys without deferrals (and thus also a high amount of CBT).
Alternatively, without deferrals, it would’ve been more likely for other teams to actually outbid the Dodgers on some of the players and so likely have signed them instead of them all landing on the same super-team.
soaktherich
Teacher: Billy, I’m sorry but you’re wrong. The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776.
Billy: I don’t like you talking down to me, teacher. That’s not how I understand it and I refuse to accept that I could be wrong.
There are a lot of Billies on the board.
Dock_Elvis
I’ll add this without outing who my spouse is. But she’s one of the country’s leading financial analysts. She handles transactions and advises on deals and amounts on the regular that are beyond the estimated VALUES of MLB teams themselves.
She has no free time. But I ran this set up by her to get her opinion. She would of course advise her clients to approach deferrals in this way under the current rules. But she does not believe it’s a long term strategy…nor even wise.
My wife is on a level that she would be Mr. Scott’s employer.
My wife, however, DOES have some creative ways to offset the Dodgers approach. They’re exceptionally revolutionary, and if a very wealthy individual would come along. They would perhaps strangle off the domestic talent supply for MLB.
snowyphile1
The Dodgers make baseball less interesting to casual fans, especially fans of 29 other teams.
Old York
Agreed. Attempts to target deferrals in the Collective Bargaining Agreement would miss the broader issue of financial disparity between teams, particularly the dominance of wealthier franchises, and would not effectively address the underlying problems.
jrussell92024
This site is like the Lincoln Project for the Dodgers. How’d that end up
freddiemeetgibby
But…Dodgers bad?
gravel
Fine. I’ll still hate the laundry and hope they are a massive disappointment to their fans, MLB network, and the nation of Japan. 🙂
Feury
I think the amount of deferrals is part of the issue. As the article states, they deferred 97% of the total contract. The fact of the matter is Ohtani is making 2 million dollars this year. I agree eliminating defferals isnt the solution, but capping them, either based on market size or revenue, at some percentage does seem like it would at least help the problem.
DroppedThirdStrike
What part of the deferral is the issue and what problem are you trying to address?
Feury
The issue is the Dodgers offer more money than anyone else, but still keep their cash open in the short term for other massive signings, in which they do the same thing. It’s basically a have your cake and eat it too scenario. If they couldnt defer more than let’s say 50% (I’d make it much lower for a market size of LA) of a contract, that’s alot less cash they have in the present term to shell out for other big time players. It changes what the Dodgers, and other big market teams can do if a player like Ohtani is paid 25 million this year as opposed to 2 million.
DroppedThirdStrike
Ohtani is still paid the same.
2024
Dodgers pay…
Ohtani $2
Escrow $44
Total = $46
2034
Ohtani paid…
$44 in principal
$24 in interest.
Total received = $68
Dodgers pay $0
Dodgers still paid out $46MM in 2024, and will for the 9 years after that. It’s not $2MM, it’s $46MM. Each year has to be fully funded within two years of the year earned. Theoretically this should help smaller market teams more as it offers more payroll flexibility that they might need.
A NYer
Fully funded but the devil is in the details. MLB does not require the money to be held by a true third party escrow agent. When your business is trading stocks and bonds, (and you are using the same money for business purposes) then it would seem that there is a higher risk than anticipated by the spirit of the rule.
DroppedThirdStrike
I would think that however the deal was funded it would have to be approved by MLB and the PA. For example I don’t think they’d look kindly if the Dodgers funded the deal with $44MM in scratch-offs..
A NYer
The mistake in this view is that deferrals of the sort used by the Dodgers have the potential for undermining the long-term solvency of the team. This is because the money is being invested by the owner, potentially in risky ventures. If things go poorly then the team could lack the ability to make good on these obligations approaching a billion dollars. It was not so long ago that MLB had to take control of the Dodgers because of a reckless owner. The only reason MLB could do that is because the potential financial problem was in plain sight due to an attempt to sell the TV rights. Just my opinion, but MLB should have stepped in with the Ohtani deal and said no way.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
The writer is wrong here. The Dodgers have took deferrals and made them an abomination to MLB. Dodgers have overtaken the Yankees for the most hated team.
DroppedThirdStrike
So you still don’t understand deferrals. Got it.
straightuphonestguy
I think the more interesting question is why we’re seeing the proliferation of deferrals. As far as I can tell, there’s zero financial benefit to the team, as the luxury tax calculations use average annual present value appraisals. For the player, is it an income tax loophole?
DroppedThirdStrike
Teams like the Dodgers and Mets think they can outperform the very low interest rates guaranteed by the CBA. So it’s a little kickback for them in 10 years. At the very least the two years to fund should be more utilized by smaller market teams, giving them the flexibility to finance deals with a larger window.
For players it’s a hedge against bad financial decisions, a nasty divorce, financial mismanagement, etc. It adds some financial security to the rest of their lives post baseball.
straightuphonestguy
That makes more sense. FWIW, only Ohtani and Freeman are reported to have no-interest deferrals on Cot’s (with Ohtani having the extra nebulous rider that any “savings” has to be reinvested in a competitive manner), so maybe guys like Snell, Betts, Hernandez, etc., are leveraging the ownership group to pump up their earnings. But then their CBT hit would be inaccurate (although likely insignificantly so)… so I guess, competitively, I’m not sure how I feel about deferrals with interest.
DroppedThirdStrike
A novel approach might be to have MLB co-sign on deferrals for small market teams that require the teams to place the required funds into extremely investments that wouldn’t earn the team any extra revenue but might give them some financial flexibility.
Another option might be to sell the deferral to hedge funds that will guarantee the necessary return in exchange for the yearly guaranteed payment.
samham811
It’s really quite simple. What is the CBT? “Competitive balance” tax. Do we have competitive balance? Not even remotely close. We can pretty up excuses and language and financial mumbo-jumbo all we want. The attempts of writers to discredit fans outrage at the Dodgers spending is ridiculous. We know it. You know it. Let’s all stop pretending this CBT works in the slightest and call a spade a spade. It’s a joke. Stop it lol.
Daniel Youngblood
If there wasn’t a benefit to deferred contracts, they wouldn’t exist.
This idea that there’s no advantage being gained here is absurd.
DroppedThirdStrike
They do have a benefit.
Financial flexibility for the team, financial security for the player. And potential profits if you can outperform the low bar set by the CBA
Daniel Youngblood
So it’s a loophole, used to subvert the intended purpose of the competitive balance tax. Glad we agree.
DroppedThirdStrike
We agree that you still don’t understand deferrals.
GenoSeligPrieb
How about a poll?
Who else here, NEVER wants to read another pro-mega market scolding from Zach Scott?
DroppedThirdStrike
Are you one of those kids that wanted to blow up the school because all your homework was covered in red ink?
GenoSeligPrieb
Jesus Christ, you REALLY get offended by me disliking some guy’s article, didn’t you? Are you Zach Scott’s brother or something?
jasonpen
The solution is not a salary cap or a cap on deferral payments but it needs to be a minimum salary floor for all teams. How about if you don’t spend a certain percentage of your revenue then you are not eligible for profit sharing? And you forfeit draft picks…
DroppedThirdStrike
I’m not sure what the answer is but I know that there are a lot of ways to build a team and put a product on the field that fans will enjoy and support.
The A’s are not going to put $200 million of payroll on a baseball field. But if they are trying to argue that they are too poor to scout, to draft, to develop baseball players, then they are too poor to own a baseball team.
GenoSeligPrieb
So, all 30 teams would compete in TV markets that give them the same revenue, right? Oh, wait…
DroppedThirdStrike
No, of course not. Dodgers have a massive advantage in revenue. It’s just that deferrals aren’t the big deal everyone thinks they are.
And if a team won’t commit to being competitive by any means besides free agency and then cry poor, not much anyone can do to help. All I’m saying is if they won’t do what they can do then what is anyone crying about large market teams?
humipro
Reading through the comments, it’s very clear that most of the irate folks here are just butt hurt that their team not only can’t do what better teams are doing, but aren’t even doing as much as they could be doing within their own more meager capabilities.
Lots of great talent still available and with 29 teams not named Dodgers still with holes to fill, you would think these players would be flying off the shelves but they aren’t.
The Dodgers are kicking everyone’s butt in many many different areas, not just with the checkbook. They’ve been in on Sasaki since he was 15-16 years old. Same with Ohtani. What have the other teams been doing? They’re playing chess while everyone else is playing marbles. Sorry, it’s true.
Sometimes better teams:players just do better. Get over it.
Imagine if LA had lost to San Diego this year, then they didn’t spend this offseason…what would the narrative be? The owners are indifferent! Not willing to do what it takes to win. Just in it for the money.
The angst needs to be with the other 29 teams.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“Mommy, that trophy you bought me is real, right?”
“Of course it is, Sweetie.”
“When I brag, the other kids aren’t jealous of me, they just call me a loser momma’s boy.”
“They are just jealous, Honey. Just keep telling them and yourself that.”
Hate Jerry
I’m very curious to see how this hurts or helps the Dodgers in 5-10 years
DroppedThirdStrike
Payroll? We’ll see.
Deferrals? Nada
BlueSkies_LA
Because the player is lending the money to the team at a 4.4% interest rate and their hedge fund owners can easily invest it in ways that earn at least twice this return.
Enrico Pallazzo
Why didn’t any of you give a single crap about deferrals when the nationals won the World Series and basically all of Max Scherzer’s salary was deferred? None of you care that the Mets and Blue Jays are using deferrals. Everyone is using them. Get over it or go find a new sport to watch. You won’t be missed.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
No, actually, they will.
Baseball dies with the boomers.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Silly shell game argument.
It’s not the WHEN or the HOW, it’s the HOW MUCH that’s the problem.
“See, see, see, see…deferrals aren’t the problem THEMSELVES….SO THEREFORE, it’s OK for us to buy everything. Yay, go us!!! We’re so great!!!”