Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. spoke with reporters on Monday afternoon to conclude the organization’s Winter Warm-Up weekend. Unsurprisingly, he touched on the team’s biggest offseason storyline: the Nolan Arenado trade discussions.
Most notably, DeWitt said that the team wasn’t motivated to cut payroll in another area if they can’t line up an Arenado deal. “No, I don’t think so,” he replied when asked if a failure to trade the third baseman meant they needed to slash spending elsewhere (link via Katie Woo of The Athletic). President of baseball operations John Mozeliak made similar comments over the weekend, suggesting that ownership was supporting a higher payroll than the front office initially expected “because we haven’t been able to accomplish what we thought we would by now (on the trade market).”
Much of that is due to the no-trade rights of the Cards’ most expensive players. Willson Contreras and Sonny Gray each indicated they preferred to stay in St. Louis rather than waive their no-trade clauses. Arenado was more open to a trade in theory, though he nixed a deal to the Astros. That confirmed he’d be particular about his next destination if he were to move.
The Cardinals are on the hook for $64MM of the $74MM owed to Arenado over the next three seasons. The Rockies are responsible for $5MM annually over the next two years. A combined $12MM in salary over the next two seasons is deferred, reducing the Cardinals’ portion of the contract’s remaining net present value to around $60MM.
St. Louis has primarily focused on salary relief. The Astros were reportedly set to assume at least $45MM of the remaining money had Arenado not vetoed the trade. With Houston quickly moving on, talks have quieted over the past month. Mozeliak made clear over the weekend that the Cardinals are still trying to line up a trade that makes sense for everyone involved. That has been more challenging than the organization anticipated.
Nevertheless, there’s still a chance for a late-offseason deal. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes that there are multiple teams that would be open to circling back on Arenado if the Cardinals are open to paying down a bigger portion of the contract. It remains to be seen whether St. Louis will eventually be willing to do that, but they’re generally downplaying the need to make trades to cut spending at this point. There’s also the matter of free agency delaying the trade market. Alex Bregman remains unsigned and there’s surely some overlap between the teams involved on the two players.
Goold adds that some teams have called the Cardinals to see whether they can talk Gray off his opposition to waiving the no-trade clause. There’s nothing to suggest the righty is reconsidering that stance, though there’s no harm for other teams in trying to change his mind. Gray is owed $65MM over the next two seasons on his backloaded three-year free agent deal. He turned in a 3.84 ERA over 28 starts during his first season with St. Louis.
Fleet Admiral Ackbar says, “It’s a re-build”
The Cardinals should just keep Arenado. He is still a fine player, just not a #3 in the lineup hitter anymore. Move him to 7th in the batting order, and then his offensive stats lineup better plus he will provide above average defense at 3rd base.
You’re right. The money isn’t that bad and Arenado still offers value. If we are stuck with him, just stop batting him 3rd or 4th. He is no longer that hitter. Marmol will prob do that anyway since he bows to the vets.
DeWitt is a billionaire. Of course he doesn’t have to cut payroll, he is choosing to. Maybe he is just tired of Arenado sulking and wants him gone. I still think he will be traded to a team that misses out on Bregman. Either way, there is no justification for not making any other moves while this plays out. They have the money to do more, a lot more. May be a long season unless Gorman and Walker surprise us all and figure things out.
For whatever reason this sounds more like a save face quote in that the returns aren’t what they hoped for. Why a team rep would announce certain things unless misdirection is a question I’ve often asked myself. I know when I negotiate professionally, I don’t spill my hand as it gives the other side leverage.
Do you really think a team is going to offer the Cardinals less just because they publicly said they were shopping him?
Either someone wants him or they don’t. And if that team wants him he has to say yes. It’s not about leverage because the team doesn’t have to trade him and frankly I don’t think they even want to.
BITA, when someone publicly says they want to reduce payroll, yes I do think they get at least at first lower offers to see how bad they want to get rid of a contract. I negotiate sometimes very large construction accidents and typically use a mediator to funnel back and forth discussions. Instead of just making a counteroffer, I’ll ask the neutral what he or she recommends. They’re privy to discussions with the other side and sometimes their suggestion is less than what I was going to offer. I can always counter with less than the mediator’s suggestion but once the higher amount is put out there, it affects all future negotiations.
Dewey – You are 100% correct. When announcements like this are made publicly, there’s ulterior motives behind it. They don’t want to appear desperate to shed payroll because if they do they are giving leverage to other teams. Common sense here.
The Astros’ offer probably showed the max that any other team wanted him, and the Cards missed a golden opportunity to move him because he was being too picky.
With the NT clause, it is his right, of course. But he really screwed his team (and himself, IMO) by saying, “um, not right now.”
Unless he starts 2025 hot and then gets moved prior to the deadline, I don’t see any team paying $45 million of that deal like the Astros offered.
Bob – Exactly! It’s quite clear trading Arenado is a far bigger priority to the Cards than it is to Arenado.
I think the notion a billionaire has liquid personal capital around really needs to be dealt with as myth. The Cardinals operate as their own business entity. We’re absolutely blessed as various team fans when a billionaire owner decides to float personal cash to win. Detroit owes Illitch a deep debt of gratitude for all his trying to win one for the city….didn’t happen. But he spent $ well beyond what the budget would have indicated.
Unless the new hitting coaches can change Gorman into a contact hitter instead of a 200 per year strikeout man —- I’d say we move on from him to Saggesse (sp).
Walker hit .275 his first year as a line drive, contact hitter, and regressed to nothing last season when his coaches decided Launch angle was more important than contact hitting for him. (Very Poor Advice!!).
Moving him to 7th means that you have six better hitters. I don’t see that on the Cardinals.
Everybody can’t bat 7th
@rm, agree. Probably more likely to be a two-hole hitter, or a five-hole hitter, with 5-hole making the most sense IMHO.
Probably correct. One could make the case that Herrera could move into the 5 hole but I would give it a month or so with Arenado there. Witt, Donovan, Contreras, Burleson, Arenado, Nootbar, Herrera, Walker/Gorman (DH), Siani. That line-up should score runs, unlike 2024, which I think was a bit of an outlier. They still need some bullpen help unless they think Hence and Mathews could fill in.
Yes, not 3rd, but surely higher than 7th. Against righties, the Cardinals should place a combination of Winn, Contreras, Burleson, and maybe Donovan and/or Nootbaar ahead of him, but that’s it. Against lefties, he should probably bat either 2nd or 4th (assuming Contreras is 3rd), unless Walker shows a big improvement with the bat.
They sure as hell don’t have 6 hitters better than him.
That’s DeWitt Jr. doing the positive talking.
If it was DeWitt III talking, … it’ll be just the opposite!!
I sincerely believe —— the fall of the Cardinals has slowing progressed on a parallel line with DeWitt Jr. gradually passing off more and more responsibility to DeWitt III.
Bill DeWitt III is way too conservative as compared to Bill DeWitt Jr.
This is when losers meet baseball chat rooms lol
Cardinals front office has gone back and forth on so many things. Contreras moving off C, buying at the deadline and taking on more $, insinuating a large payroll reducing, now little to no payroll reduction is good enough. My prediction is we will be buyers next month and sign Bregman and Alonso
Wishful thinking. Not gonna happen. You sent your slugging first baseman away that would have played for 1/2 of what Pete wants. They aren’t clearing out Nolan to pay Bregman double either.
That slugging 1st baseman couldn’t hit a fastball last season. He is fine being allowed to walk.
Not counting that thing that only lasted a week last spring, Contreras moving off catcher is a new development.
They bought at last year’s deadline, because they were still in contention at that point. ultimately, they fell out of the race and decided they needed to move in a new direction this offseason.
They HAVE already cut a bunch of payroll just with all the free agents they let walk, so yes, it is good enough. They never said until now exactly how much they needed to cut.
DeWitt in essence saying we have no one else to trade that would save us on payroll so we are going with a larger payroll than we expected. We suck at getting trades done so we will just have to suck it up for a year.
It’s simply untrue to state the Cardinals don’t have anyone else to trade to save on payroll.
There’s no single player that would save as much as Arenado, but Helsley ($8.2 million in 2025) and Fedde ($7.5 million) both have positive trade value.
Matz is making $12.5 million in 2025. That’s underwater, but I think another team would take on some of that (maybe $5 million?) in a pure salary dump by the Cardinals.
So that adds up to ~$20 million in 2025 payroll, and all 3 of those players are FA’s after 2025.
The team appears to be pursuing a middle-ground of neither a big teardown, nor making any significant outside additions. I have my doubts that’s a wise strategy, but it seems to be their plan.
You are correct about Fedde. Helsley does have trade value, but Mo has said the Cardinals are not trading him. Matz has so much negative trade value that they could not save money by trading him. They would have to attach a prospect to get rid of him.
That adds up to $7.5 million. Not enough to bother. Just run it back and see if they can win a weak Central.
That is what Chaim Bloom did in Boston. Results speak for themselves.
I agree they’re they’re a middle of the pack team now, but I wonder how underwhelming trade conversations around Fedde and Helsley have been for them to decide on this path. They can probably get more for both of those guys at the deadline, I would probably take the risk and do the same thing if I was them
“We suck at getting trades done”….you have veteran players who WANTED to play in St Louis, because they always have wanted to. Gray would have probably loved to have been a LIFETIME Cardinal. Guy has a no trade clause and loves the org and region. He’s not waiving that a year in
They don’t have to suck it up for a whole year. They can keep him to start the season and hope he puts up better numbers. Then look to move him near the halfway mark.
With another half year off the books the contract becomes less onerous. Look forward to seeing him wear the birds on the bat again.
If a player with an NTC refuses to allow the trade, it means the GM sucks at his job of convincing them to take the trade. If they won’t go now, why would they move in the middle of the season? Because the team sucks more?
The GM also showed he sucks by not figuring out a way to move contracts like Matz and refusing to even try to trade Helsley on a team that will be lucky to win 85 games.
Unfortunately, that’s exactly what I’m afraid of. By having Mozeliak remain as the Cardinals as the President of baseball in their front office, if the Cardinals surprise everyone and are in contendining position at the All-Star break or Trading Deadline —- you can bet —- John Mozeliak won’t be trading to try to make the team better!!!!
With Mozeliak still employed —- he will be trying to dump the Cardinals best and highest priced players still on their roster at the trading deadline!!
Of course we know he’s banking on dumping Arenado, Matz, Fedde, Mikolas, and Gray if possible before he leaves.
My fear is he’ll also let good players like Donavan, go too…… but keep questionable 200 strikeouts per season player like Gorman and pitchers like Libertore hang around.
What do you all think???
Why they take on the contract if they couldn’t afford it? Everyone else in the league knew his numbers were inflated from playing at coors
His best offensive season (149 wRC+) actually came with the Cardinals in 2022. But he’s about to turn 34 – age comes for us all.
Goldschmidt won the MVP at age 34.
WCS – Yes but more importantly it’s all about the trends.
Two consecutive years of huge declines is a bad trend. It is an indicator of future performance, unless hampered by injuries.
In 2023 26 hr and96 rbi wasn’t much of a declining trend.
Teams looking for a final piece to make a run are usually well run and understand Nolan’s value.
jmaa – Decline means his performance got worse.
He went from an .891 OPS down to .774 OPS …. that’s a massive decline.
More of a regression followed up by a bad year on a bad team. If he was a horse I’d kick out his last race and wager based on 23 at a price. Good teams will do the same.
Dude they aren’t trying to trade the contract because they can’t afford it. They are trying to trade him because he asked to be traded.
The Cardinals are trying to trade Arenado to reduce payroll, either to save money OR to use the savings elsewhere on other team needs. Arenado is willing to be traded if he were to go to a team of his choice (seems to be the Red Sox but may be other teams as well) where he thinks he can win. Contreras and Gray both said they were uninterested in waiving their no-trade clauses, so moving Arenado is their only option to open salary space.
From Cardinals PBO:
“We both remain optimistic that both parties will remain happy somehow,” Mozeliak said during the Winter Meetings. “[Arenado remaining with the Cardinals] is a possibility, but I’m not sure that puts us where we want to be. From a financial standpoint of trying to move our payroll – there are certainly other ways to do that, but [trading Arenado] would be a big help. It’s financial, but it also creates a runway for someone else.”
“These decisions are not something we ever take lightly, but when you understand the profile of what this team looks like, and after meeting with him in Colorado, he’s not demanding a trade or telling me that I have to do it, but in the best interests of both sides, I’d like to try and find him some place,” Mozeliak said.
Arenado came to the team and asked for a trade. After he did that the team figured they wouldn’t mind the salary relief. But if Arenado hadn’t asked for a trade I don’t think they would be trying to trade him.
And since that quote the owner just came out and said something a bit different. Thats why this post exists.
I don’t believe the team tried to trade Contreras or Gray. I think thats a made up report. And why the heck are the only options to save salary space those 3 guys???? That makes no sense at all.
In the quote I posted above, the Cardinals PBO said he went to Arenado in Colorado to discuss moving him.
Here is a quote from the PBO from 2 days ago:
“Well, I’m hopeful,” Mozeliak said of an Arenado trade that the club hopes will improve its financial standing while also opening up playing time for younger players. “When you say ‘confident’ or ‘putting odds on it,’ I think it’s still a flip of a coin. I know that it’s a top priority for the organization and myself. So, I’ll be laser focused on that until it’s not.
“I think priority one, two and three is still [trading] Nolan.”
MLB.com, and many other reputable sources have reported that Contreras and Gray are unwilling to waive their no-trade clauses. Gray has made multiple statements this off-season which support this.
Those 3 have the biggest remaining contacts on the Cardinals. The only other two with salaries over 10mil are Mikolas and Matz, both of whom are on the last year of their deals. The Cardinals apparent lack of effort in moving those two is likely an indicator that the moving of payroll isn’t about the 2025 season as much as it’s about future seasons.
Yeah Arenado asked to be traded and they went to Colorado to discuss it with him.
No credible report says Contreras and Gray refused to waive their no trade clause.
Making up narratives based on “indicators” is your mistake.
Clearly Credible insider Joel says that no credible sources have said anything about the cardinals this offseason! (Well unless it was something positive!)
WCS – Really enjoy your posts, you support them well with quotes and facts.
BITA, do you have a quote or source that Arenado asked to be traded? I’m sure he’s interested, but I thought they were pursuing a deal to reduce payroll and he didn’t say no, unlike Contreras and Gray.
GBS – The fact Arenado blocked a trade to a great franchise like Houston is proof he’s not that anxious to be traded.
@Joel For at least 21st time now,can you provide a link backing that Arenado requested a trade?? Instead of you trying to hypothesize why he would ve asked for a trade JUST PROVIDE THE LINK ALREADY!!
There is a quote from earlier in the offsesson where Mozeliak said 1 unnamed Cardinals players asked to be traded. Then shortly after that Mozeliak said he’s trying to trade Arenado and then Mozeliak said trading Arenado is priority 1, 2 and 3.
That’s as close to proof as you will ever get in a situation like this.
PITA – That’s proof teams will twist words to deceive the fanbase in favor of the team.
Mo: “Hey Nolan we are planning a rebuild …. err, reset for 2025 and we could really use some payroll relief. Would you mind if we attempt to trade you?”
Nolan: “Sure I’ll consider it, can you try to trade me to one of my preferred destinations”.
It’s never been said that Arenado asked for a trade, merely that he’s open to one to certain teams. If he really asked for a trade, he wouldn’t be restricting the Cardinals’ options so much with his no trade rights.
You are making up reports out of thin air while dismissing reports from MLB.com which are backed by quotes from Mozeliak and Gray.
Here is a report from late November indicating that the Cardinals were open to trading Matz and Helsey:
mlbtraderumors.com/2024/11/cardinals-expect-to-fie…
Here is a report that the Cardinals spent the early off-season trying to trade Arenado while noting that he had NOT asked to be traded:
mlbtraderumors.com/2024/11/nolan-arenado-trade-rum…
So 3 of the Cardinals top 4 highest paid players have no-trade clauses and haven’t given indication that are willing to waive them while the 5th and 6th highest paid players have been discussed in trades. The only guy left is Arenado and Mozeliak has made it clear he’s trying to trade him because it’s what the ‘organization’ wants.
Usually when a PBO/GM pins something on the ‘organization’ it means the owner is making him do it, but in this case the Cardinals have a new guy taking over the PBO title in 2026 (Chaim Bloom) who may want to move long term salary first. This would also track with why moving Matz and Helsey are lesser priorities as their contracts expire after the 2025 season (and they make far less money than Arenado).
We don’t know anything for sure aside from that the Cardinals are trying to move salary AND they are highly prioritized to trade Nolan Arenado but he isn’t willing to be traded unless it’s to a destination of his choosing. ‘Why’ the Cardinals are trying to move salary is up for debate and everything else is speculation. It’s possible that as soon as they trade Arenado they turn around and spend the savings on someone else.
Mozeliak said 1 Cardinals player asked to be traded. He said that I can find the quote if needed.
Shortly after that he said he’s trying to trade Arenado.
He hasn’t traded anyone else
He said recently trading Arenado is priority 1, 2 and 3.
Arenado asked to be traded.
Wcsox fan that first article has a 3 word quote in it from a third party source. And field interest is different than trying to trade them. And since they haven’t actually been traded i would say that’s evidence they aren’t all that serious about doing so. And that article is from a Cubs fan just an FYI.
Arenado asked to be traded. Earlier in the offseason Mozeliak said 1 players asked to be traded he didn’t say who. Then shortly after he said he’s trying to trade Arenado. He hasn’t traded anyone else and just recently he said trading Arenado is the priority.
We can wait and see what happens. This site published an article with their top 35 trade candidates and 7 were Cardinals as if the team was going full rebuild. It’s late January and the team hasn’t traded a single one of them at this point or anyone else. I think Arenado gets dealt assuming Bregman signs before spring training. But these other players aren’t going anywhere until maybe July.
This is the quote. It’s neither clear that it’s about Arenado nor does it state the player asked to be traded. If Arenado really wanted to be traded, it would have happened by now.
“I have had an individual ask me to explore a few things, so we will try to do that. But I suspect that that’s for between now and Winter Meetings. … I’d prefer to not name that [player] for leverage in terms of trying to do something with him [in a trade].”
You don’t seem to add anything to these conversations due to a lack of knowledge and a mindset to ignore facts of they interfere with your world view, so I’ll be muting you going forward. For the sake of others, please look up these things before commenting, at worst it would provide quotes for everyone to see and at best it could deter you from making an ill-informed post.
Yeah that’s the quote.
Since that quote Mozeliak said he’s trying to trade Arenado
Since that quote Mozeliak hasn’t traded anyone else
Since that quote Mozeliak has recently stated trading Arenado is priority 1, 2 and 3.
Who do YOU think asked to be traded?
And let’s not forget Arenado asked his former team to trade him thats how he ended up a Cardinal. And it was because he wanted to win and the Cardinals have stated they are reducing payroll in 2025.
FPG; WCSFan; just give it up in regard to BITA. I did the same thing, showed him quotes from Mozeliak & the Dewitts in articles written by Katie Woo of the Athletic stating the club wanted to move Arenado for payroll relief & Mo saying that Arenado didn’t demand a trade.
BITA just likes to argue for arguments sake! It’s never ending. Ignore someone like that and move on.
BITA is literally blackpink once I realized that I moved on too
AGAIN Joel can you provide a link to Arenado requesting a trade??
Nobody cares about your assumptions, a link providing Arenado being named asking for a trade. If it indeed exists should be pretty simple.
@Joel No in situation where players ask to be traded there is usually numerous articles quoting the player. Have you noticed that is absolutely absent here???
@WCSoxFan You’re right that Arenado has never asked to be traded, but your first linked MLBTR article is only about Matz and mostly speculatory, and even the linked Post-Dispatch article in that article (which granted, I can’t actually read without a subscription) looks like Goold was only making personal speculations about Matz and Helsley himself early in the offseason before the Cardinals announced that they actually plan to keep Helsley.
Yes, in hindsight that quote was almost certainly about Arenado, but once again, it does NOT say that the player ASKED to be traded.
If it wasn’t Arenado who asked to be traded why is it so important for Mozeliak to make it happen?
@Joel AGAIN can you provide something with a link naming Arenado??
They can afford it. But the team doesn’t look competitive around him at present. It’s a soft rebuild strategy. StL fans need him dealt or it’s delaying that process.
The Rockies packed substantial cash to StL. Its just didn’t get that ring to happen with Paul Goldschmidt still there.
Cardinals have spent more than 20 years reloading and not rebuilding…they’ve also seen a lot of their talented baseball ops people take jobs elsewhere, including that entire Houston ordeal.
It’s outrageous how long they were a legit playoff contender.
Had they won a ring in the past 4 season or so…it’d look a lot different. No one complained when they fleeced Colorado for Arenado. Team was trying to win. Didn’t happen.
Trading or not trading Arenado really isn’t changing much as far as the Cardinals future goes. All it does is save the team some money.
Most likely. But if you have good scouting..this is where they shine. That guy down in A ball they get back can shine. Cardinals have been masters of finding talent. Let’s say they come up with a solid late inning guy out of it. That’s a lot of money they don’t have to fork out later.
They can get that by trading Matz.
If the team was doing a full rebuild fine. And just because you think they should doesn’t mean they are i think thats the problem here.
I dont believe i indicated they SHOULD do a full rebuild. That’s not happening. I worked in professional scouting. Its these Matz type deals you’re talking about that get scouts drooling. They’re watching these A ball games….and mske their bones finding talent. The Matz type deal getting a flyer…it’s how teams truly win. By NOT paying like the Dodgers are now large for relievers. And it’s what Stl has been amazing at over the years.
If the Cardinals were stock now. I’d be buying
Even if they don’t go anywhere in 2025, keeping Arenado still increases their chances of winning in 2026 and 2027 when they’ll be more serious about competing.
Landrace, well the complication is whether Arenado wants to stick around.
Yeah I would be very surprised if Arenado is around in 2026. But I think this is partly why a deal hasn’t happened yet. There isn’t a desperation to trade him like some people think there is.
Arenado wants to stay enough to use his no trade clause against most teams. It’s not like he’s been demanding a trade.
Besides, it doesn’t matter if the Cardinals themselves no longer have any interest in trading him after 2025 as they likely wouldn’t if he sticks around that long.
I am sure he asked for a trade but with the stipulation that it was to a really good team looking to not only contend but be legit championship contenders on paper.
I would be shocked if he’s not traded by July. I agree I wouldnt mind him sticking around but I dont think that will happen.
They might have gone to him asking. Player/management relationships aren’t always adversarial, especially in St. Louis.
Um, the article is saying they CAN still afford it if necessary.
They have been so hard to watch for the last couple years. Looks like a lot of the same for this year.
Don’t act like a spoiled brat. A winning team isn’t hard to watch at all. Fans didn’t find it hard to watch when the team missed the playoffs 3 years in a row from 2016-2018 yet still had a winning record each year.
That’s because they are a loyal fan base. But, the FO keeps trying to pass off the same fib over and over and the fans are tired of it. They have more than once refused to get a few player at the deadline that would push them over into playoffs/deep run, but instead allow the team to falter.
They fired the good manager and kept the yes man who can’t manage himself out of a paper bag. Veterans may like Marmol, but you think the guy who couldn’t get out of A ball and publicly goes after a player gets respect from the veterans? Team will never improve until the FO and Marmol are gone.
They generally DO add rather well at the trade deadline. They got Lester and Happ in 2021 to push them into the playoffs, then the same with Montgomery and Quintana in 2022. Either year, they could’ve easily had a better playoff run if a few things had gone differently.
While they didn’t get into the playoffs last year, it wasn’t the fault of the trade deadline additions, Fedde and Pham.
Schildt may have been better, but Marmol is still a decent manager at worst who overall has a winning record at the helm over his three years to date. No manager could’ve salvaged the 2023 team after most of the pitching unexpectedly blew up.
They can keep the team as is. That’s not really much of a revelation. They just shouldn’t do that if no other holes are going to be patched up.
Holding Fedde in particular makes no sense to me. Why risk injury or performance decline on him?
Fedde wasn’t all that good for the Cardinals in 2024. What the heck do you think he’s worth?
People keep talking about making these trades but for what? What prospects are the team missing out on?
He’s a bargain at his salary.
They’ll get nothing at the deadline for him if he’s hurt or regresses. You talk about all these Cardinals pitchers that you want to see start—-there’s a rotation spot opened up. Fedde will get an actual prospect back today.
Matz/Mikolas’ will not be able to be dumped off without attaching something of value.
The increase of playoff odds is worth the chances of Fedde declining or getting hurt. The same goes for Helsley.
Mikolas, agreed, but Matz has some trade value as long as they eat part of his salary.
What playoff odds? Currently the Cardinals are expected to finish last in the Central with an O/U of 76.5 wins. That is with a healthy Fedde.
He’s probably a 3.20-3.30 ERA starter. That’s worth quite a bit, especially at his relatively low salary. His ERA with the Cards after that first rough start was 3.19, so he certainly showed when he settled in after that start. He’s not a superstar, but a quality 2-3 guy at a low salary is worth a lot.
If cutting payroll was such a priority then why has the team traded ZERO PLAYERS? And why would they be trying so hard to trade a guy with a NTC?
Arenado wants out. That is a fact. Whats not a fact is the team wants him out.
BITA
Who can they deal? Sonny Gray probably gave them a better deal than he’d have given elsewhere and has a full no trade. Super family oriented guy who always had a desire to be a Cardinal.
Players love playing for St. Louis.
Yeah Gray signed at a discounted although the deal is backloaded. Matz is the guy to trade sure the team would have to eat some salary but not all of it.
Not a lot of real value though in Matz. Someone has to throw innings in StL. They aren’t tanking. That’ll never fly.
Get Chaim Bloom rolling…let him work the development system. It’ll be a few mediocre seasons.
McGreevy can jump right into the rotation. They could give Liberatore a chance. It would not be difficult to replace whatever Matz would hopefully produce. And that would save the team money if that’s really their goal.
But here we are and nobody has been traded. Not 1 single player…..
My theory is if you’re not going to be GOOD…be INTERESTING. The Cardinals are boring. It’s just true. This is a boring baseball team right now.
If they do trade Arenado i want them to also trade Matz too. Then sign Scherzer and Moncada.
Scherzer would be interesting. Fans would show up to watch him pitch for the Cardinals.
But who and for what? I don’t like the (reset) but it is what it is. At least til the All-Star break give many one last chance. Gorman, Walker, Herrera, McGreevy, Libertore, Arenado, and others all have question marks. Even Nootbar and Siani or Scott. If they fail then it is time to move on, but at least they will be given a full opportunity.
Give it up! The Cardinals have no interest in signing any free agent starters, even if they trade one of their existing starters. They certainly wouldn’t go after someone as expensive as Scherzer would be. It would’ve been quite a bit cheaper just to pick up Gibson’s option.
Agreed on McGreevy and the possibility of trading Matz.
However, if he actually stays healthy, Matz would easily outproduce Liberatore. They’ll give someone like Rom or Graceffo the opportunity instead if Matz gets hurt again or gets traded.
Scherzer could help pay for his salary with increased ticket sales. This is a player a LOT of Cardinals fans want to see pitch for their team. And they can still trade him at the deadline if he’s pitching well and the team isn’t playing well.
Rom is a complete unknown. Graceffo could get some opportunities especially if he gets off to a good start at Memphis. Same with Robberse. But Liberste deserves a shot too.
I doubt anyone has come calling for Matz except to say, if you eat almost all his salary, we’ll take him off your hands. That doesn’t help.
Because even with Gray’s raise they already dumped enough payroll just by letting Goldschmidt, Gibson, Lynn, Kittredge, and Carpenter walk in free agency, while they’re still trying to compete on a lower payroll with the guys they still have, save for maybe Arenado. It’s not that hard to understand
That is a false fact. Arenado is just open to leaving. If he really wanted out, he wouldn’t be so stingy with his no trade rights.
Being stingy is often a negotiating tactic. Putting the most likely teams you’d be traded to as blocks. But in this case I think you’re right. Players love playing in St Louis. Usually competing…but right now probably not for a few seasons.
If it wasn’t Arenado who asked for a trade earlier in the offseason then who was it???
And if Arenado didn’t ask for a trade why is it so important for Mozeliak to trade him???
He wants out but he wants to go to a legit contender. The Astros traded away Tucker they aren’t legit their window is closing. He wants to go to a team who is clearly better than the Cardinals. Dodgers, Yankees and Mets all fit that criteria.
I’ve seen this in real time and I can give you how the convo goes…
GM: Nolan, I just dont see us having a competitive season. We need to start revamping the organization. We love you here in StL. And we know you love it too. Youre a winner. Would you be amenable to a deal to a team that might give you a better shot in the near term?
Nolan: I love playing here in StL. My family loves it. I’d really like to stay, but of the right deal comes…yeah I’d consider it.
Now…not saying THIS occured. But a lot of front offices and players aren’t as at eachothers throats as the media portrays.
That’s not how it went Elvis. Arenado came to the team and asked to be traded. He said he wants to play for a winner. The team said they will do their best to accommodate him.
….so I’m perplexed why there’s really discussion. BUT that’s a pretty dang good organization to have solid communication. I’m not worried about the Cardinals. They won’t be down too long.
Oh yeah, Gallegos’s salary is no longer on the books, either.
If Arenado does get traded i think the favorites are the Mets and the Red Sox in that order. The Red Sox would be a little complicating because they would have to move Yoshida in a separate deal and they would have to move Devers to 1b. The Mets i think will sign Bregman or Alonso or trade for Arenado. And it sounds like they have moved on from Alonso. The Mets also have a right handed hitting center fielder to trade which the Cardinals need and that could convince the Cardinals to pay down the salary.
If you think the Mets want Arenado, you know nothing about David Stearns and how he operates.
He won’t trade for an older player to block guys like Luisangel Acuña, Brett Baty, and Ronny Mauricio from showing what they can do.
Baty is on his way out. He’s shown what he can do and it isn’t much.
Acuna can play a lot of positions
So can Mauricio. And I wouldn’t mind the Cardinals taking Mauricio back in the deal.
The Mets are trying to win and have a huge payroll. All they have done this offseason to their lineup is swap Alonso for Soto. Thats an upgrade but thats really about it. I think they make another big move.
BITA: You’re delusional. Stearns wouldn’t trade any of those young guys for Arenado.
@Joel They have not traded anyone because one player blocked a trade. Two others have stated they wish to remain with STL, it’s pretty clear to everyone other than you their hands are tied…
Blue, You could have just stopped at BITA: You’re delusional. There are so many ways he has demonstrated his delusional state of mind that enumerating them would be a few thousand word article.
Blue – He’s clueless. He thinks it’s Arenado pushing for a trade because he supposedly wants out, yet he blocked a trade to one of the best teams in MLB.
Can’t rationalize with the irrational though.
0% chance he goes to the Mets, especially if the Mets would have to trade prospects of any value.
“Mets also have a right handed hitting center fielder to trade”
I’m not sure who you’re referring to here but if it’s Jett Williams or even Acuña, you’re delusional. Cardinals would have to pay Arenado’s entire salary for the Mets to consider this. And I’m not overvaluing prospects here, just illustrating how reluctant the Mets have been to part with any prospects.
Tyrone Taylor isn’t a prospect.
30-year-old Tyrone Taylor, a FA in 2 years, is not the return the Cardinals should be seeking for Arenado.
Taylor isn’t that valuable he’s simply a good fit for the Cardinals. I would like Jett Williams but the Mets aren’t trading him.
They’re not trading Taylor either. He’s a good fit for the Mets in a CF platoon with Jose Siri.
2 right handed hitters isn’t a very good platoon. And the Mets have Jett Williams coming soon and another outfielder i think his name is Gilbert coming in 2026.
Whatever you say
The Red Sox don’t need to trade Yoshida. They are ~31mil under the CBT (and may choose to go over) and Yoshida should be able to play the OF again after his labrum surgery (he played all last season with the injury and couldn’t throw a baseball). If they did trade Yoshida, then Devers would DH (which would make him unhappy) as it makes no sense to move Devers to 1b then Casas to DH.
Arenado would be a part time player on the Red Sox, a useful part time player, but his salary is quite high for that role and he’s about to turn 34. So not a perfect fit (the no trade clause creates issues as they would need to make room in 2026 when they go after VGJ who seems to have picked Boston as his top destination – if the money is right).
The Red Sox need to trade a left handed hitting outfielder. They have too many lefty hitters. Anthony and Campbell are top 10 overall prospects and ready to play soon.
Part time player? Dude I usually don’t mute someone for lack of knowledge but I am thinking about it. Arenado would be the 3b. Devers and Casas would split time between DH and 1b. Why is that so complicating?
Right, BITA, either Arenado or Bregman potentially makes sense for the Red Sox. The problem is that they already have Yoshida at DH (even if he can play the OF occasionally they have four superior defenders to do that) and they have had even less success trading Yoshida than the Cardinals have had with Arenado. A sunk cost that could sink the ship – but one that they aren’t willing to move on from.
PITA – I posted a detailed list of every Red Sox hitter with their numbers vs LHP to prove your Red Sox stance on “needing a RHB” is pure crap and you are STILL pushing that BS narrative. Not a surprise though.
Wait – Does it make sense to take on a 3-year commitment to Arenado, or possibly longer to Bregman, without them knowing what they have in Grissom, Cambpell, Mayer, etc?
Don’t get me wrong, I know Cora is Bregman’s BFF and Cora usually gets what he wants therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Sox.
With Arenado do you really think the Sox will take on most if not all of his contract, knowing how cheap the Sox are and knowing the financial commitments that are likely coming for Crochet, Mayer, Houck, Campbell and others?
Running an MLB team involves putting together 5-year plans, not knee-jerk reactions to perceived immediate needs.
I’m just trying to understand your thinking here …. are you expecting Story to suffer another season ending injury or get his contract bought out? Are you expecting the Sox to immediately give up on Grissom only one year after trading the reigning Cy Young Triple Crown winner for him? Are you expecting Campbell and Mayer to be busts?
There’s an infield logjam, I don’t see how adding a high priced infielder to add to the logjam makes sense …. unless I’m missing some future event that will occur?
@Joel Yeah you of all people should not be deleting anyone for lack of knowledge. If you were that passionate about one having baseball knowledge you would have resisted the urge to comment long ago…
If the Red Sox didn’t already have Yoshida, then Hernandez or Santander or Bregman or Arenado might make sense. All four bring more to the table than Yoshida does.
Unfortunately they have Yoshida, and the upgrade from bringing in somebody new isn’t enough to justify the additional cost. Not when you are holding the team to a $180M payroll.
I believe their strategy is logical given their determination to stick to a middle-market payroll — currently #14 in the majors. I’m simply unhappy that they are unwilling to play with the big boys. If the were willing to run a $240M payroll like Toronto or a $280M payroll like the Yankees, then they could have approached the off-season differently. But at this point they’ve filled most of their slots with second tier signings. The $52M that they’ve spent this season wouldn’t have been enough to land even one of the players listed above.
The weak positions as it stands are C, SS, and DH. The outfield is strong (playing great defense helps). I expect Campbell to be a fine 2B. Devers has defensive issues, but his bat at least is enough to make him an above-average 3B.
How do you upgrade that? Very hard to find a top-notch C, though I really hoped they would have spent a little money to bring in Carson Kelly. Even harder to find a good SS. Mayer ought to be okay — probably — but there isn’t a whole lot to distinguish between Story and Mayer and Hamilton at this point. None of the three are likely to be above average this year, even if all are healthy.
The easiest way to upgrade the team, and something that is a piece of that “five year plan” you talk about, is to find a superior defensive 3B, move Devers to DH, and dump Yoshida. However that would involve realizing a $50M+ sunk cost, which is too large a chunk of their $170M budget to even consider. Devers isn’t going to last five years defensively at 3B, so the five year plan HAS to include his successor.
At this point I believe the Red Sox will — and arguably should — go into the season with what they have now. They have enough talent on the roster to play a bit over .500 baseball, which has been their target the last five years. If everything breaks right then they win a wild card. I have no dreams of a World Series on a $170M payroll.
Wait – So you’re comparing Hernandez, Santander, Bregman and Arenado to Yoshida …. but none of those four guys are pure DH’s like Yoshida is.
So you are saying you’d have made them a pure DH if they had been acquired? Sorry, I don’t see Bregman or Arenado as fulltime DH’s.
Sure Santander and Teo could be, but why would you want to tie up the DH role for at least 3 years when you know Devers or Casas should be moving to DH soon?
I totally agree Catcher is a huge weak spot, in fact it’s the 2nd-biggest weak spot of all teams hoping to contend this year. The current Red Sox catcher depth is projected for only 1.2 WAR this season ….. quite bad.
DH is not a big weakness even if Yoshida repeats his 2024 performance. He ranked 12th in MLB out of 23 DH’s (min 200 PA’s) which obviously puts him squarely at league average.
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?type=1&mon…
I assume you expect Story to be injured again this season, which is a fair assumption based on past history (even though I think he’s due for a healthy season). I agree with you that Rafaela would be a poor replacement for Story at shortstop.
Overall we are at the same conclusion, this is not a championship caliber team and it makes sense to evaluate the players they have this year. That is precisely in line with what ownership had said years ago, that they don’t plan to try and contend until 2026 at the earliest.
My enjoyment this season will come from watching the younger players develop, I have no illusions of a World Series appearance.
The Red Sox have to trade lefty hitters and specifically lefty outfielders. They have to. They can wait until July but it has to happen eventually. I could see an Arenado deal making sense in July if it doesn’t happen before the season starts.
PITA – I agree with you that it’s unlikely Rafaela will contribute this year, but you’re also assuming Campbell, Grissom and Story won’t replace O’Neill’s numbers ….. not a wise assumption.
The Sox were 11th in OPS vs LHP last year …. it’s not like they were bad at hitting lefties.
Where did I say that I wanted to make them a pure DH?!? I said that they would have made sense for the Red Sox to acquire if Yoshida were not in the picture.
Neither Hernandez nor Santander needs to be a DH, either would be fine in LF. Bregman and Arenado obviously make sense at 3B, they are among the best defenders in the league at that position.
Hernandez on a three year deal isn’t any more of a logjam than Yoshida with three years remaining. Potentially less so, since he can better play the OF. He also brings a much better bat to the table, enough so that I’d be okay overlooking some defensive weakness.
I have no idea whether Story will be injured again, but even if he is healthy, his days of being a plus bat in the lineup are long behind him. There is nothing in what he has done the last two years to suggest that he can top a .300 wOBA.
But yeah, this is not a championship club. Don’t watch the W and L this season or you will be perpetually frustrated. Watch the young kids as they develop – and pray that management doesn’t block them with mediocre veterans who won’t help enough this year and have no future.
Don’t count Rafaela out. He isn’t at all likely to be an offensive force, but if he improves even a LITTLE with his swing decisions, he could put up a .300 wOBA and gold glove defense. That isn’t a star performance, but it is better than what I believe Story can deliver at this point in his career. Possible that the Red Sox lineup improves slightly when Mayer replaces Story,, and my expectations for Mayer are very modest.
Interesting idea, BITA, I can see a few ways how that might work out.
Wait – You wrote “If they didn’t have Yoshida”.
Yoshida is a DH.
How does Yoshida have anything to do with players who are NOT primary DH’s?
I obviously get that Arenado or Bregman could *potentially* push Devers or Casas into DH, but Santander and Teo would not impact Yoshida UNLESS they become primary DH’s.
You can’t possibly be saying Santander or Teo would push Duran, Abreu or Anthony into a DH role.
The goal is to move Yoshida sometime in 2025. I think we all agree he won’t be around for the next 3 years, therefore he’s not in the same contract situation as Santander or Bregman or Arenado or Teo.
So now that Yates is gone, who is next on the Red Sox “interest list” that some Sox fans are excited about signing?
Red Sox ownership and management has no shame with their “we are GFIN” crap …. every …. single …. year.
If the Red Sox didn’t have Yoshida, they could sign a player to play DH or they could move Devers to DH and sign a player to play 3B. Other moves would also be possible, but would make less sense to me.
Yeah one way or another they have to move Yoshida by July. Even if they don’t go get Bregman or Arenado they have too many lefty handed hitting outfielders. It might be best for the Red Sox to wait until July just to keep Anthony and Campbell in the minors and keep that extra team control. But they gotta do something eventually. It’s really not the worst problem to have.
Campbell is right-handed.
That Red Sox don’t have an issue of having too many LHHs (right now they project to have 5 LHHs and 4 RHHs in their starting lineup with 1 LHH and 3 RHHs coming off the bench).
The Red Sox need a middle-of-the-order RH bat to split up Devers, Casas, Duran and Yoshida. Given that Arenado is turning 34 and has had 106 and 102 wRC+ over the past two years, it’s not clear he’s can do that in 2025, let alone 2026 or 2027 (VGJ impending free agency would further complicate this). If the Red Sox add Arenado it would be to play 3B, but that lineup would be markedly worse offensively against RHPs, so it’s not a clear upgrade aside from when having LHPs.
Why would Devers split time at 1B when he’s never played there before? It’s much easier to move Devers to DH and keep Casas as the 1st baseman.
Please read up on these teams – you seems to keep putting yourself in a hole of misinformation and appear to be too stubborn to pull yourself out.
WCS – Yeah he never provides anything to support his stance.
Days ago I already did the L/R Sox lineup breakdown and used stats against LHP …. all he could muster was “Who is that?” for half of the players listed.
In many forums if you post enough blatantly false stuff you get a timeout, he would definitely qualify here.
I do disagree with you on one thing, Devers should be given an opportunity at first base before deciding he can’t play the position.
And Casas is pretty bad at first base. Not Schwarber-bad, but still bad.
I’m not against ‘giving him a chance’ but based on quotes from Devers and his agent he isn’t interested in moving off 3B and it’s unlikely he has played any 1B. He’s a bit stiff and loses concentration at times while his height (6’0″) is below average for the position, so I don’t expect him to be any better at 1st than 3rd.
Devers is still young and had the same number of throwing errors (3) as Arenado last season, so I don’t think him playing 3rd is the issue (although I don’t expect him to ever be better than below average at the position again).
Casas was bad (by OAA; -10) in 2023 but DRS (-4) and UZR/150 (+1.3) weren’t as negative. In 2024 his OAA was only -2 in half the playing time – if he can keep that up then he’s likely a better 1b option than Devers in my opinion. But he is 6’5″, has a reputation as a hard worker and was projected by scouts as an average-to-better defender at 1st, so I’m optimistic that he will continue to improve.
My dream scenario for some time has been seeing Vlad Jr. Join the team with him splitting time with Devers at 3rd, Casas at 1st and both at DH. It doesn’t make the defense better on paper but giving them all 1/3 rest time at DH may help keep them healthy and they may hit well enough that we just accept the defense even if it is bad. Vlad see himself as a 3rd baseman still, and seems to want to play in Boston (if the money is right I’m sure) so this could give them a leg-up over teams wanting him as a 1B/DH only. Given that Vlad and Raffy are buddies, it would likely make Devers more amenable to reducing his 3b playing time.
I know Campbell is right handed
Anthony is left handed. And so is Mayer. 6 lefties is already more than enough. Come July they have to trade some lefty hitters not only because they have too many but also simply because their prospects need a place to play.
Devers might be best at DH but he has to be OK with it. He’s got a 300 million dollar contract they can’t just move him around without him on board with it.
Hoping Guerrerro signs with the Red Sox is silly and stupid.
After reading this article I couldn’t help but think how much Wilson Contreras would help the Red Sox (if he were to waive his no trade clause). He could backup Wong (limited C time to stay healthy), backup Casas and DH against LHPs, providing the RH middle-of-the-order bat they need.
In terms of SS, I think the Red Sox are set. Story had one freak injury last season but the previous injury occurred all the way back in 2021 with the Rockies, but had been worsening for years. He’s now fully healthy and showed GG defense once again in September – not sure how well he’ll hit, but should at least be solid due to the glove.
After playing only 65 MiLB games at SS Rafaela struggled defensively at the position to start the season (-9 OAA March-June) but improved steadily toward the end of the year (+0 OAA July-Sept). They’re small sample sizes, but make sense given his projections (plus/60 at shortstop) and lack of previous playing time at the position. With Romy/Hamilton/Mayer/Sogard as further depth, I think they’re well stocked at the position.
They could still use a plus RH bat, but given Yoshida being healthy and the young guys, is hard for me to see DH as a weakness. But unless one of Campbell/Story/Grissom step up, they may struggle against starting LHPs.
Fever, last year they had O’Neill batting in the middle of the order. He wasn’t great in that role (his power tended to come with the bases empty), but at least he gave them somebody who could break up the lefties.
Who hits there next year? Rafaela, Wong, or Story? Ouch, my eyes hurt even writing that!!! Campbell could be a very good hitter, perhaps, but is a leadoff type not really a slugger. Grissom too, if he is successful.
Narvaez! There you go, a RHH power hitter to bat between Devers and Casas. Problem solved.
@BITA, the Red Sox will be very interested in Guerrero, and will be sadly disappointed when he signs with the Yankees, after the Red Sox made him a “very competitive offer”.
I could write the story today…
Agreed, WC. Story should play strong defense, if healthy, but at this point in his career I’m expecting a below-average bat. Still a useful player but batting in the lower third of the order at this stage of his career. Definitely not a candidate to bat #4.
Rafaela is a tremendous defensive CF. I believe he could probably be decent at SS too, but he has a higher ceiling in CF. Mayer is good enough at SS even if he doesn’t reach his ceiling.
I like the idea of Contreras, he could be a good fit.
Early in the offseason I was darn near sure the Cardinals would trade Herrera or possibly Contreras. I think it’s kinda dumb to make Contreras a 1b and carry 2 other catchers he could at least be a backup catcher but the Cardinals are loaded at catcher and this was easier I suppose.
WCS – Cora has refused to try out Devers at first base, that’s the problem.
When the DR manager wanted Devers to play first base in the WBC, Cora refused.
When Casas was out for most of last season, and Devers was having throwing issues because of his shoulder injury, Cora refused to let him play some first base which actually would have benefited Devers physically compared to playing third base..
Cora has refused to try out Devers at first base in any Spring Training, and has refused to have Devers take reps during practice.
Now there’s people here who insist it’s easy for third basemen to make the switch to first base. I’m kinda in the middle on that. Vladdy is one who made the switch, but he’s not exactly GG caliber at first base.
Yes Casas is 5 inches taller than Devers, but there’s a whole long list of current MLB first basemen who are 6 feet or less (ie: Ty France at 5’11”).
Bottom line, you don’t move your 28-year-old longtime starting third baseman and franchise player to fulltime DH in just the second year of a $292M 10-year contract. You give him every opportunity to earn as much of that contract as possible by playing on the field.
As for Vladdy, his two best buds are Tatis and Soto. The Padres certainly aren’t signing Vladdy, but the Mets are far more likely to do so. For what Vladdy wants, the Sox won’t be paying him to be a DH and they would obviously need to move or trade Casas. Personally I wouldn’t give up on Casas just yet.
WCS – Exactly! The Red Sox don’t take on bad contracts unless it comes with prospects, they only GIVE bad contracts.
I think the last bad contract they took on without prospects was maybe Lowell? They should not be taking on multi year contracts until they know what they have in Campbell, Mayer, Grissom, Anthony and Casas. This should be an evaluation year. Nobody is buying into them GFIN in 2025.
I would think the Dodgers.
The Mets wouldn’t touch Arenado.
Lindor – Arenado’s Bodyguard would make sure of that.
Net present value. Oh Yeah !
Sounds like a Schoolhouse Rock cartoon followed by a Kool Aid commercial.
You signed Willson and Sonny to no trade contracts, so live with them.
Gladly! They’re still two of the team’s best players who are worth what they’re being paid.
Cut the front office. Hold tryouts for GM.
If i remember correctly, he was supposedly willing to go to the angels. They are less of a contender than houston but in a preferred geographic location. His contract isnt too bad, so id trade a couple depth type prospects for him if i were the angels.
Mo is so terrible at his job. For those blaming DeWallet — and often im in that group. The reality is the Cardinals payroll has been in the 150-185 range.
Those salary ranges SHOULD put your team into more than just contention. But it won’t if you keep making poor decisions, which comes down to Mo.
You signed a catcher who, despite almost common knowledge in the industry, wasn’t much of a catcher. To the largest FA contract the team has ever had.
You’ve traded away far more WAR than you’ve received back in trades.
You’ve failed in your developmental programs — especially since COVID — to the point where organizationally, this team is unrecognizable.
To me, most of that’s on Mo. You can blame DeWallet for giving Mo and Oli to long of leash. But they’ve hung themselves with it at this point.
This team is a rudderless ship which is why the fanbase has turned on it. It’s not payroll causing that.
It’s time for Mo to go. And he’s going. But he’s also a guy who succeeded a long, long time. So long an entire generation is reacting to the Cardinals losing…becsuse they’ve won their ENTIRE life. This team didn’t make the playoffs from 68-82 I dont believe. But, man, it’s been pretty good sailing since about ’98.
Not always. Winning baseball is about more than just payroll. They’ve just had one really bad year followed by a still decent year with a winning record after making the playoffs 4 years in a row.
Signing Contreras was and still is a good deal despite his overblown defensive issues, even as a 1B/DH.
That is absolutely false! Look at Mozeliak’s entire history of trades and you’ll find that he’s overall done an excellent job. Even in more recent recent years, he’s pulled off good or better trades for Goldschmidt, Arenado, Gallegos, Romero, Lester, Happ, Montgomery, Quintana, Kittredge, and Fedde to greatly more than make up for the occasional duds like the Ozuna and Liberatore trades.
It hasn’t been THAT bad, but that’s why they’re now trying to fix the problem.
Much of what you said is true, but it’s that recent history of the terrible Ozuna trade, the bust of a Liberatore trade, the odd early decision to give up on Garcia and get nothing for him, the decision that Lane Thomas was the most expendable OF you had in the stable, the timing and cost/length of contract on Fowler, the terrible timing and terrible decisions on expensive contract extensions for guys like Carpenter and Mikolas, the swing and a miss on Matz, the decision to relive old glory days with last year’s roster, and some still unsettling moves on several reclamation project pitchers that cost way too much money at way too high of risk that have fans calling for Mo’s job. He has absolutely made some good moves, but that long list is what fans are more focused on at this point.
Someday front offices will realize that overpaying for an older player will only crunch your financial limitations later. Arenado was a bad contract and they added to it with Sonny Gray. $30 mil for the next 2 years? Ouch.
Those are our most productive 2 players.
Mason Wynn?
He certainly regressed as the season went on. We can only hope he makes the adjustments he needs to quickly. All the talent is there, but that falloff was troubling.
15M a season for Sonny Gray is a steal. I’ll take him. Dodgers are paying relievers that.
It was the Rockies who gave Arenado that huge contract, and they had to eat a whole bunch of it to trade him to the Cardinals. So far, Arenado has provided decent value for what the Cardinals are paying, and his salary goes down over the last two years of the deal to where the Cardinals (or an acquiring team) only owe him $10M in 2027.
Gray is still a great pitcher, so there’s nothing wrong with his contract.
Deep dark horse for Arenado? I’ll take Kansas City.
I don’t want to hear the Cardinals complain in 2025 about fan support with this horrible team..
Then it’s a good thing they still have a decent team.
Worst thing the Cardinals can do is placate fans to produce an avg product. Stl fans are probably the smartest in baseball. They want stuff done right and they want to win the Cardinals way. So do it. Even if it costs a couple seasons. A two year blip on the way to regearing a wonderful franchise with great fans is nothing.
Win and they’ll be alright
Franco, grammar.
The team already cut 20% of the payroll without adding any new players. “Rebuilt!”
I only came here to observe the interaction between BITA and the rational posters.
Would St.Louis do a swap Arenado for Bohm & a prospect. Then maybe they put Hesley in the deal as well
Why would they want Bohm? Part of the reason for trading Arenado is that they already have in-house players to take over at 3B, and Arenado is still a much better player than Bohm, anyway.
Why in the world would Helsley ever be included?! Helsley alone is worth more than Bohm and a prospect.
I had a dream last night that Nado ended up on the Dodgers,
When did the Cardinals become the Marlins/Pirates/Twins?
He should sell the team.
SELL THE TEAM
Let’s be honest. Keeping Arenado won’t do any dent in the damage Mo has done. I say keep him, see what happens. Watch Mo walk after the season and see what the direction really is. This is currently baseball purgatory and Mo is trying to make Arenado look like some bad guy. Remember – Arenado could have opted out and signed a longer and more lucrative contract per year
Time for the Dewitt’s to sell this team. This line of BS is what will drive away more fans.
Bills best case regarding a financials reset is moving Nado in trade. He’s not forcing it. If a deal falls in his lap tomorrow, Nolan is gone.
STL is standing pat until their next opportunity to sell. They are sellers now, at the deadline and will be next offseason when up 45mil of FA’s-to-be will be off the 2026 books or traded prior. Full sell mode, don’t let them fool ya.
We have youth that needs playing time to sink or swim, and a handful of first rounders that need to step forward, but, why force it. Nolan staying is not a worst case.
I don’t think the Dewitts have any idea how much they are disintegrating their fanbase. Or they just don’t care. Not to have Chaim Bloom at winter warm-up either shows their arrogance (yet again) or their stupidity. Either way, the DeWitts should sell. Their model and outlook is ancient, outdated and doesn’t reflect where the game is, business-wise.