1:50pm: Bowman further reports that the Braves’ offer to Hoffman was a five-year pact valued between $45-48MM total. The idea would have been for Hoffman to get an opportunity to pitch out of the rotation in the season’s first few years before a potential move to the ’pen down the road. The lengthy nature of the pact suggests that part of the aim was to tamp down the annual value of the contract and thus reduce the luxury hit.
1:25pm: Right-hander Jeff Hoffman signed with the Blue Jays on Friday, a three-year deal with a $33MM guarantee. Shortly after the Jays announced that signing, it was reported that the Orioles had agreed to give Hoffman $40MM over three years but backed out after flagging a shoulder issue in his physical. The saga continues today, as Mark Bowman of MLB.com reports that the Braves also walked away from a deal with Hoffman.
There are no details on Hoffman’s agreement with Atlanta. It’s unclear if this was before or after the agreement with Baltimore. It’s also not publicly known what sort of financials details were worked out between Atlanta and Hoffman. Bowman doesn’t specifically mention what issue Atlanta found in the physical, though it’s presumably the same shoulder problem that the O’s flagged.
It’s a notable development on a couple of fronts. For fans of the Jays, this will perhaps add to the level of concern that already developed out of the report about the deal with the O’s. All teams have different thresholds for what is or is not a concern during a physical, but the fact that two clubs were scared away from Hoffman will understandably be a bit nerve-wracking for fans of the club he is now a member of.
It bears repeating that the Orioles didn’t want to walk away from Hoffman completely. Per last week’s reporting, Baltimore continued negotiating with Hoffman after nixing the $40MM agreement. That suggests that whatever they found in his shoulder wasn’t a dealbreaker, but rather something that lowered the amount of money they were willing to commit to him. It’s unknown how much the shoulder issue knocked off of their offer, but it presumably dropped below the $33MM figure that Hoffman got from Toronto.
Time will tell if the shoulder becomes a problem for Hoffman during the next three years, but it’s a situation that has precedents. Carlos Correa is the most notable recent example, as he originally had a 13-year, $350MM agreement with the Giants before they flagged an ankle issue in his physical. That led to a 12-year, $315MM agreement with the Mets, though that was also quashed by the ankle issue. That led Correa back to the Twins on a six-year, $200MM guarantee with four vesting options that can eventually lead to Correa earning $270MM over ten years. Since then, Correa’s results have been mixed. He got into 135 games in 2o23 with tepid offense, followed by excellent numbers in 2024 but in just 86 games, heading to the injured list due to a right oblique strain and plantar fasciitis in his right foot.
There have been other examples of disagreements about health lately. The Yankees reportedly had a deal in place to acquire Jack Flaherty at last year’s deadline but walked away due to concerns about his back in the medical reports. The Dodgers seemingly had less concern, as they swooped in to get him. Flaherty went on to stay healthy, forming a key part of the club’s rotation down the stretch and through the playoffs as the Dodgers won the World Series.
This Hoffman situation also has some parallels to Toronto’s signing of Kirby Yates a few years ago. Going into 2021, the Jays gave Yates a $5.5MM guarantee with performance bonuses but he required Tommy John surgery and missed the entire season. In the wake of that surgery, it was reported that Atlanta had walked away from giving Yates a $9MM deal while the Jays also reduced their guarantee from $8.5MM, both due to concerns with the physical.
The Jays reportedly believed that Yates’s upside was worth the risk on that modest investment, which didn’t work out. In this instance, it’s unclear if the concern is as high as it was with Yates, though the investment is far larger. Though as mentioned, the O’s were still willing to make some kind of investment in Hoffman as well, to an unknown degree.
For Atlanta, while the details of their engagement with Hoffman aren’t known, this can perhaps tell us a bit about what’s next for them. If they had an agreement with Hoffman, it was likely somewhere in the $35-45MM range. That suggests both that they have some money to spend and a willingness to use it on upgrading the pitching staff.
Hoffman reportedly got some interest as a starting pitching earlier in the offseason. It’s unknown which role Atlanta had in mind, though they did do the reliever-to-starter conversion thing with Reynaldo López last year. They signed López to a three-year, $30MM deal and then moved him to the rotation for the 2024 season. That has worked out very well so far, as López posted a 1.99 earned run average in his 25 starts last year.
A rotation addition seems to be on the to-do list for Atlanta again this winter. They lost Max Fried and Charlie Morton to other clubs via free agency and were connected to Nathan Eovaldi earlier this winter, though he later re-signed with the Rangers. On the other hand, the bullpen lost A.J. Minter, Jesse Chavez and others to free agency, while knee surgery is going to possibly keep Joe Jiménez on the IL for the whole 2025 season.
Atlanta has been fairly quiet this winter, mostly making cost-cutting moves. That includes jettisoning Jorge Soler’s contract, non-tendering Ramón Laureano, turning down an option on Travis d’Arnaud and restructuring the deals for López and Aaron Bummer. It’s unclear exactly where they want the payroll to be but RosterResource currently projects it at $201MM, about $22MM below last year’s $223MM Opening Day figure listed at Cot’s Baseball Contracts. RR also has Atlanta’s competitive balance tax number at $217MM, which is $24MM shy of the $241MM base threshold of the tax.
Atlanta has paid the tax in each of the past two years. Back in December, president of baseball operations Alex Anthopoulos suggested the club could pay the tax again in 2025, though without firmly declaring that they would do so. Given the wiggle room they currently have, it’s possible for them to make a notable investment or two while still staying south of the line.
Hoffman could have been a part of their plans, either for the rotation or the bullpen, though they will now have the chance to redirect that money to someone else. The free agent market still features starters like Flaherty, Nick Pivetta and others, as well as relievers including Tanner Scott, Kenley Jansen, David Robertson and more. The trade market may feature names like Dylan Cease and Luis Castillo as rotation options, while Ryan Pressly and Erick Fedde are some relievers who could be available in trade talks.
This fool radioactive dawg
A $33M dollar fool who got his bag.
In order to make your statement more impactful, a comma is needed between ‘radioactive’ and ‘dawg’, and a period at the end of the sentence wouldn’t hurt. Let’s give it a try, shall we?
This fool radioactive, dawg.
Relax, Bart. A four-word sentence with the words “fool” and “dog” is not exactly one that should be expected to be taken seriously punctuation wise.
@chief,
Thank you for pointing out that irony might not be dead, but it’s definitely on life support.
Why not? Are we back to ebonics now?
Or he could be saying “This! Fool, radioactive dawg”.
Thank you.
Okay, that’s mildly concerning now.
Sounds like Toronto was determined to sign a free agent no matter what.
Braves & O’s both walk away & who’s left holding the bag? The clown & fool show plays on in Toronto. Ahahahahaha!
Braves n Os probably want him as a starter where as Jays as a closer.
MEDICALS May have said something like ” shoulder may not hold up for a starters workload ”
Jays DIDN’T care for 1. They wanted to use him as a closer and 2. They were desperate for someone to take there loot
@mrshow
I kind of doubt that.
@MRSHOWTIME
At this point desperation is in the rear view mirror. This is flailing.
Lol MRNONSENSETIME
This is really rocking my fantasy draft planning.
But for real i like to see teams try to convert some pitchers. Not guaranteed but rad to see when it works:)
The desperation stink coming from Toronto is pungent. 🙂
Holy Correa, Batman!
OK, so the Blue Jays finished 3rd on their own singing than.
The Braves could have really used him. As the article says, I wouldn’t have been shocked if they planned to make him a starter.
DOUBLE A doesn’t like to spend premium dollars on a closer if he can avoid it
When did the braves get rid of raisel iglesias??…who is a top 10 closer in the MLB
Thats why he’s was probably signed as a starter
Details out that he was targeted as a starter
This really shows how cheap the Braves are this offseason. Hoffman has never been a good starter. Basically Atlanta is just trying to secure a cheap SP instead of going after a real one.
5/45 mil… less than $10 mil a year for a SP is not going to net you anything at all these days. Braves need to just make an announcement letting everyone know they’re now just going to be a AAAA team going forward. If their prospects click then great and if not oh well.
They’re going to win 90 games in 2025, but please go on about how triggered you get following the offseason.
@2024: “Atlanta is just trying to secure a cheap SP instead of going after a real one.” Like they did w/Lopez last season w/his 3 years @$30M? Like they did by dealing for Sale and getting the Red Sox to pay his entire 2024 salary? Obvious to everyone but you that the reported offer to Hoffman was stretched out over 5 years to lower the AAV. Vegas betting line on the Braves win total is 94 1/2. If you’re so sure they’re “going to be a AAAA team going forward” you should bet your house on the under.
BravesFan2024
Basically Atlanta is just trying to secure a cheap SP instead of going after a real one.
=======================
You’d have thought they’d have learned their lesson last year after having acquired a cheap, injury-prone SP like Sale, and another failed SP turned RP like Lopez.
What a disaster that was.
Get a new team to follow
Raisel is great but he is probably not going to be a brave in two years time. That would require them to sign a reliever on the back third to a deal he might not be worth come the end. He is 35 right now and is signed through the end of this year. He could go year to year and in that case there is a possibility he returns, but that makes him all the more attractive for the rest of the league. He might look for a 3 year deal, braves might bite on that, but again so would a lot of teams. 4 years or more might be the most the braves would offer and that would lower his aav offer he gets from the braves. He may even be looking for one last deal before retirement. Does he like atlanta enough to offer a discount for a long term deal? I have no idea.
They’d most likely use him in the rotation to start the season, where Strider won’t be back until June (as last reported by AA), and wouldn’t be pressured to have AJSS/Waldrep/etc, to win a rotation out of ST, starting them out at AAA. Plus, Holmes should get more IP, but they could use him as a long RP option, as well. I’d imagine after Strider is back, they may want to move Holmes back, go with a 6th man rotation (not likely) or use a top SP prospect as a trade bait (likely) to address in another need (COF/SS/RP).
MRSHOWTIME
DOUBLE A doesn’t like to spend premium dollars on a closer if he can avoid it
===========================
Did you not know that the Braves already had a closer named Iglesias?
That’s 2…..and now I believe more and more the shoulder is why the Phillies let him walk.
A very reasonable inference, Cat Mando…
The Phillies let him walk because they are so far above the limit that they are paying more than double any additional contract they delve out.
They are sticking to 1-year deals trying to reset a bit next year.
So, the Phillies being out on Hoffman has very little to do with his health.
Or – they were willing to do a one year deal not only due to their constraints, but also due to the fact that they know his medicals better than anyone at this point.
And understandably so, Hoffman was looking to guarantee as much as he could as a late bloomer. Happy that he got his life-changing deal and the best to him in Toronto.
They were never looking to offer him a deal at all.
Source?
Every Philly reporter, newsblog, radio station, newspaper…etc. The Phillies could not afford the years. It was known from the beginning of the offseason. Hoffman knew it too. Hoffman was leaving the Phillies even if he had a clean bill of health. The Phillies finances just don’t matchup.
Not trying to be argumentative VPH but I also read a number of the legitimate journals from Philly (although I never listen to talk radio and avoid the dopey blogger stuff). And I could have missed it, but nowhere did I see anyone state that they were never looking to offer him a deal at all, just the tea leaves that they were pretty much in one year deal mode. And the reality is that Hoffman was in the position to be looking at multi-year deals. But if he fell back in their laps on a one year, I am sure that they would have at least entertained the conversation.
My take has been that every transaction this winter has been a tacitly agreed owner decision in that to fill the obvious gaps they would do one year deals, and that they would sign off on the budget overage on a case by case basis. But they were not interested in multi-year deals unless it was just an irresistible deal.
Where I am in agreement with you (despite the folks who maintain that it is impossible) is that they are at least trying to leave things open for a reset below the line next season. Many things would have to break right, but I looked at the projections and it is doable, albeit with some painful decisions along the way. – while still being in contender mode.
VonPurpleHayes
They are sticking to 1-year deals trying to reset a bit next year.
==================================
Assuming they keep all their arbitration-eligible players, they are already likely over the cap in 2026. And that’s without signing any more FAs this year, and replacing Realmuto and Schwarzer next year.
A number of other contracts come off the books next year (Alvarado, Walker and many more).. There will only 5 players making north of $20 mill on the Phils in 26. They can reset if they want to, and more importantly, they don’t need a full reset. They can just get under the highest surcharge, or even the 2nd highest if they wanted to. It’s pretty clear that’s the plan.
Under the highest, yes. Right now, per Cots, it’s 193.66.
My estimate for Bohm ($10), Luzardo ($11), Stott ($7), Marsh ($6), and Sosa ($5) is another $39M, bringing the total up to $39M, for a total of ~ $233M. Assuming the keep Alvarado & Strahm, they are up to $250M, And that’s for only 14 players.
And right now they’re well over $300. So that right there would be a reset.
Toronto signed him for 11 M a season for three years. Even if Hoffman gets hurt and needs surgery, who cares because he is signed for a pittance for three years. Bench players get paid 11M a year and pitchers get 15 M at age 42 and higher. Why does no one bother berating those teams? Simple, they aren’t fans of the game, they are critics without knowledge of the game. If Hoffman helps the Jays in 2025, well done. If not, they release him and sign someone else. It isn’t like Toronto are a bottom dweller when it comes to payroll. They are in the top five in all of baseball. Fans screamed a pitcher by the name of Chris Carpenter was a train wreck and would never pitch for the Jays. He went to St. Louis and was their ace. Al Leiter – same thing and NO ONE knows what the future holds. It is all speculation and guess work.
Ashley, Hoffman has a top 20 salary for a reliever. Its not a pittance.
@Ashleyr
It’s not a question of money. It’s about the FO’s ability to assess talent.
You really think $33m for 3 years is a pittance?
It won’t set back the Jays 5 years if they get nothing for their money.
2 teams walked away after medicals but Blue Jays so desperate to sign someone that Hoffman gets 3/33. Interesting.
They non-tendered Romano at $8.5M which I assumed was due to injury concerns so a bit strange. Less years and less money makes Romano more attractive If they are both healthy, unless they think Romano wont be the same.
The fact that the Phillies swooped in as soon as possible and signed Romano for more then what the Jays would have had to pay seems to suggest he can’t be all that banged up.
If Romano has an effective season this year and Hoffman ends up hurt, Atkins and friends are going to have an entire omelet on their faces.
Good point, even if there was an injury concern much better to have a 1 year deal vs 3 year risk
O’s not noted for their spending–especially for pitchers. Also, wouldnt be the first time they tried to leverage medical info to sign a guy for cheap.
As for the Braves, seems like they wanted to do something completely different with him. The five years seems to be a way of tamping down on AAV maybe I’m wrong. 3/33 seems like reasonable gamble for a team noted for its deficiencies in the bullpen.
Reaching hard. Feels like you’re making excuses to rationalize both the Os and Braves decisions.
If two diff teams, whom both have a recent track record of evaluating talent pretty well, both independently come to the same conclusion on the throwing shoulder, we should pay some note.
It’s not an absurd thing to think about considering how many pitching injuries happened last year. And, Hoffman is an extremely hard thrower.
Bowman also goes on to say, Another source said the Braves’ deal with Hoffman would have been a five-year deal worth $45-48 million. The right-hander could have been given a chance to start before spending his final years of the deal as a reliever.
Good for him to get his bag but he looks cooked. His SIERA and FRA aren’t pointing in a positive direction. Given the low $-amount, the Jays can afford to eat the cost of another guy on the injury shelf for most of the contract.
Either Toronto bought a lemon or these other teams were having buyers remorse and pulled out before the pen could hit the paper
Even when the jays signed someone they still managed to be runner up
That damn doctor may have cost the Hoffman family about 15 million
Just glad the Braves kick the tires on someone that we as fans got to here about.
This will be on Jays’ doctors one way or the other. What they saw and what they recommended is proprietaty and not informed by any other medical exam or opinion whch kid private. They will be proven right or wrong.
Can you Imagine back in the 70s,80s and 90s how many deals would have been scrapped over medical issues for Seaver, Ryan, Santana, Maddox,Clemens, etc! Really makes you wonder how they got by back then without as many injuries
The average guy threw 85-95, I wonder more about the position players who played many games on virtual concrete in those old domes and bowls.
Look at what happened to Grant Balfour after he failed a physical.
This has to make Orioles fans feel better, since a reasonable team also walking away because of Hoffman’s medicals means it’s not a replay of the old Angelos days, where contracts blew up for medical reasons absurdly often.
It’s generally worked out just fine for Baltimore.
I hope that part of the org doesn’t ever change.
I hate it for the player but this news is some support that Baltimore isn’t just insane in its medical flags as some have asserted. these are big numbers for a reliever/*possible* starter — a player isn’t helping your squad on the IL.
Ultimately, time will tell if Toronto got value or got punked.
Did the Braves and Orioles use the same doctor similar to how the Giants and Mets used the same doctor to evaluate Correa?
Yup. That stings. Would have loved to have him but I get it. If he has issues we can make that investment in him.
Mike Sirotka 2.0
It makes me wonder if Shatkins signed the guy knowing that they might well be fired with another bad season.
Shapiro’s really just on the business side. I honestly think he’ll stay no matter what. Atkins, yeah. I mean he’s probably toast with another bad year.
The doctors in Canada are not that good. I know from experience
a) it would not have been a Canadian doctor – its not like they send him to the local clinic. Hoffman likely never even came to Canada for his medical.
b) There are likely a limited number of specialists in this area and teams all use them
It’s called a joke
Oh and he was in toronto for his physical.
I’m asking this out of curiosity, but do any professional athletes have their surgery in Canada? I know Manoah had his done in the US, but I don’t know any other Canadian athletes with serious injuries.
I believe some nhl surgeries are done in toronto. The maple leafs own an MRI machine as well
They definetely are not giving 3 year deals based on word from local doctors lol.
While I understand the medical concerns with Hoffman, I think the amounts being mentioned in the stories and the amount he ended up signing for is a drop in the bucket. It’s not an amount worth stressing over like the Correa situation from a few years ago.
I wonder what the beef teams have with either Hoffman or his representation that all this stuff is getting leaked. $33 million over three years for a team pushing a $200 million payroll is nothing even if the deal blows up in their faces.
5.5% of their budget. It shouldn’t be ignored, but no one in this forum has any idea of how severe the issues are.
Tales of Hoffman
This is starting to get complicated!
The prettiest girl I ever saw, was drinking Hoffman’s through a straw.
“Prettiest girl”- did you go a-courting?
Where does Hoffman sleep at night?
In a bedroom.
Hoffman Estates!
It proves the Lousy GM shapiro and his lackie, shouldn’t be here….
The Nightmare continues in Toronto
Phillies doing that Homer Simpson fading into the bushes meme.
Nicely done, sir.
So now we know why he signed with the Jays….
Interesting Hoffman was willing to give away 5 @$45MM. Have to imagine he accepted the Braves offer after the 3/40 with the O’s was nixed.
Hoffman may play well in the sticks but this is capital city
Philly, Atlanta, Baltimore and the Toronto all probably looking at same thing. Jays just accepted the risk at agreed terms. It kinda makes sense that the contract is backloaded.
Green had a shoulder injury when the Jays picked up his option. They worked with him. He seems alright now after few months off.
Given totality of Jays offseason thus far, it probably influenced the decision too.
The one thing I will say about the Jays front office. They alway double down on pitching and defense. It wouldn’t surprise me if they choose Pivetta over Santander.
It’s a little bit different type of gamble. To sign a player to a multi-year deal AFTER he had surgery means you expect a couple of years of return. That’s not unusual. If Hoffman requires requires surgery prior to finishing his 2nd year, it becomes an expensive gamble.
I think some GMs realize they are on borrowed time and don’t care what happens to these contracts after they are gone.
Agree on the lame duck GM thought.
Hope it works out Jays and Hoffman.
Traded Romano for Hoffman. Healthy I take Romano everytime.
Someone needs to tell the Rockies they can do physicals before finalizing contracts and go back in time and unsign Bryant.
The Braves are all for financial flexibility, but I wonder where in the rotation Financial Flexibility Flexibility will pitch?