The long-awaited Garrett Crochet trade is finally here. The lefty will be swapping his White Sox for Red Sox, according to announcements from both clubs. Four prospects are going the other way: catcher Kyle Teel, outfielder Braden Montgomery, infielder Chase Meidroth and right-hander Wikelman Gonzalez.
Crochet, 25, was the eleventh overall pick in the 2020 draft and made his big league debut that same season with a six-inning cup of coffee. He was a key piece of the White Sox bullpen in 2021 with a 2.82 ERA and 2.80 FIP in 54 1/3 innings of work but missed the entire 2022 season and a portion of the 2023 campaign after undergoing Tommy John surgery. The lefty ultimately made just 13 appearances in the majors last year and struggled in 12 2/3 innings while walking more batters than he struck out during that time.
When the White Sox made the decision to not only move Crochet into the rotation but name him the club’s Opening Day starter back in March, the news came as something of a shock given his lengthy injury history. The move proved to be a fateful one, however, as Crochet went on to turn in a dominant season for Chicago to emerge as the club’s lone bright spot amid a brutal 121-loss season. Crochet pitched 146 innings across 32 starts for the White Sox this year, and in doing so posted a 3.58 ERA (115 ERA+) with a phenomenal 2.69 FIP. Among starters with at least 100 innings of work in 2024, Crochet led the sport in strikeout rate (35.1%) and SIERA (2.53) while also posting an elite 5.5% walk rate and a solid 45.1% groundball rate.
Those unmatched peripheral numbers paint a picture of Crochet as among the game’s very best starters on a rate basis, offering a rare combination of command and top-end velocity from the left side. That’s not to say Crochet comes completely without concerns, of course. He was quite prone to giving up hard contact with the White Sox this year, as evidenced by 14.4% of his fly balls leaving the yard for home runs and a 9.2% barrel rate that was in the bottom 15 among all MLB starters with at least 140 innings this year. While that proclivity towards lackluster batted ball results can be more than made up for with Crochet’s elite strikeout-to-walk ratios, the lefty’s lack of track record due to a substantial injury history is also sure to raise some eyebrows. His 146 innings of work this year represents the first time he’s thrown more than 65 innings in a season dating back to his college days in the SEC, and he threw even 90 pitches in just nine of his 32 starts this year.
Of course, it’s hardly a surprise that Crochet’s workload was closely managed given he more than doubled his previous career high for innings in 2024. Barring injury, it’s easy to imagine the Red Sox being able to stretch him out for larger workloads over the course of his two remaining seasons of team control, and perhaps even for as soon as the 2025 campaign. Ultimately, Crochet profiles as one of the most impactful arms in the entire sport on a per-inning basis, and that was clearly enough for a Red Sox club that has been on the hunt for an ace all winter to pull the triggers regardless of durability concerns.
The upside to Crochet’s limitations in previous seasons is that it has tamped down his earning power to this point in his career. He has accrued over four years of major league service time but since so much of that was spent either on the injured list or in the bullpen, he hasn’t been able to push his salary up terribly high. MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects him for just $2.9MM next year. He will be due another raise in 2026 before his slated trip to free agency but probably won’t even be able to get to eight-figure territory due to his modest starting point. Given the massive prices being paid for free agent starters this winter, Crochet’s situation gave him a huge amount of trade value.
In return for two years of Crochet’s services, Boston is giving up a massive prospect haul. Teel is the clear headliner, ranked by Baseball America as the #25 prospect in the sport and Boston’s third-best prospect behind only Roman Anthony and Kristian Campbell, both of whom reports have suggested the club regards as untouchable. A left-handed hitting catcher, Teel was the 14th overall pick in the 2023 draft and hit an excellent .299/.390/.462 in 84 games at the Double-A level this year before earning a promotion to Triple-A. The youngster rates as a solid defender behind the plate who is expected to have no issues sticking behind the plate, and with his 23rd birthday coming up in February it’s not hard to imagine him taking over as the everyday catcher for the White Sox in Chicago sometime in 2025.
In addition to Teel, the Red Sox are also dealing 2024 first rounder Braden Montgomery. The 12th overall pick in this year’s draft, Montgomery is a switch-hitting outfielder who has yet to make his pro debut but slashed .322/.454/.733 in 295 trips to the plate for Texas A&M this year. BA ranks Montgomery as the #59 prospect in baseball while MLB Pipeline ranks him as the #54 prospect in the sport, noting that he offers plus power and double-plus arm strength that should make him a good fit for right field. Meidroth and Gonzalez, meanwhile, are not considered top-100 prospects in the sport but are nonetheless well-regarded within Boston’s system. Per Pipeline, they ranked as Boston’s #11 and #14 prospects prior to the trade.
Meidroth was the club’s fourth-rounder in the 2022 draft and looked good in 122 games at Triple-A this year with a .293/.437/.401 slash line. The 23-year-old offers little power and profiles best as a second baseman in the majors but also has experience at third base and shortstop. Like Teel, he could impact the White Sox as soon as this year. Gonzalez, meanwhile, signed with the Red Sox out of Venezuela and made his pro debut back in 2019. He split his time between the rotation and bullpen at the Double-A level in 2024, posting a 4.73 ERA in 83 2/3 innings of work. His solid 25.6% strikeout rate at the level was overshadowed by a 12.8% walk rate. It’s possible Gonzalez could make an impact at the big league level out of the bullpen in the near-term, but given Chicago’s lengthy timeline for a return to contention it would hardly be a surprise to see the club opt to develop the 22-year-old carefully with an eye towards a future in the big league rotation.
With Crochet now in the fold, the Red Sox have checked the biggest box off of their offseason to-do list by adding a premium talent to the front of their rotation. What’s unclear, however, is the club’s next steps. Rumors percolated earlier this winter that the club may pursue multiple top-level pitching additions, and given the fact that the club reportedly prepared a formal offer for top free agent starter Corbin Burnes last night such an addition can’t necessarily be ruled out. A lower-level addition to supplement the rotation appears more likely at this point, however, given recent reporting expressing skepticism regarding Boston’s odds of landing Burnes. A reunion with Nick Pivetta or a pursuit of Walker Buehler have been floated as possible alternative free agent targets for the Red Sox and could allow the club to further build out depth for a rotation that currently projects to see Crochet joined by Tanner Houck, Brayan Bello, Kutter Crawford, and Lucas Giolito next year.
Aside from bolstering the rotation, the Red Sox still figure to explore the market for a right-handed addition to their lineup. Teoscar Hernandez and Alex Bregman have both received buzz as potential targets for Boston, with Hernandez theoretically joining a crowded outfield mix as a replacement for Tyler O’Neill while Bregman would slot into the club’s lineup as the everyday second baseman barring a decision to move Rafael Devers off third base. Now that Teel is headed for Chicago, bolstering the club’s depth behind the plate seems likely and finding a back-up such as James McCann to pair with Connor Wong could be a priority for the club.
Julian McWilliams of the Boston Globe (X link) first reported that the Red Sox were about to acquire Crochet with Teel going the other way. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (X link) first reported the other names in the deal.
Alex O.
They’d be better off doing this than signing Burnes to a huge deal. Going to cost them some good prospects though.
Led Hoyer
Go get him Boston.
YourDreamGM
Alex or should I say John Henry!
YourDreamGM
How about some credit to Bloom? He built them a great farm that allowed Breslow to rip away a huge chunk of it.
deweybelongsinthehall
Agreed to a degree. Teal was an obvious choice and Montgomery was not his. This is a lot for two years.
YourDreamGM
My first thought was huge white sox advantage A for them D for Boston. After thinking on it a minute or two I think it’s a win win. Going to write up my grade below but spoiler alert I think it’s going to be a B C.
KennyF’nPowers
Agree. An overpay for a guy who’s never thrown a lot of Innings and one really good year. I understand they needed a frontline SP but man that’s a lot.
Pete'sView
This is one of those deals that I believe works well for both teams—assuming Crochet continues to pitch at last year’s level—and if he does, the Red Sox are able to extend him..
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
We will know the reality of the trade in a few years
Atloriolesfan
No. It’s an F. Os under Elias have drafted Rutschman, Cowser, Kjerstad, Bradfield and Holliday in the first round. They were in on Crochet and my guess is that they were offering Kjerstad or Bradfield but not both. Two first rounders plus two other good prospects? Insane.
The Os got Corbin Burnes for Hall, Ortiz and a CB pick. A first rounder, a solid 4th rounder (Ortiz is really pretty similar to Meidroth) and a pick. So the Bosox offered an extra 1st rounder and a prospect to get a guy less valuable than Burnes? Someone bid the Bosox into an overpay and it may well have been Elias.
Atloriolesfan
If he’s that good, why wouldn’t the extension be prices at the Burnes level $35av for 5 years.
Big Hurt
Bro, he’s got an extra year and costs WAY less than Burnes. The two deals aren’t comparable and don’t even make sense in the same sentence. Also, the market for crochet included at least 12 teams, so that will drive the market up. Another delusional Os fan.
YourDreamGM
@alan.kawadler@verizon.net People aren’t that interested in my grade today. Years from now I think they will be impressed with my captain hindsight. Teams had to evaluate it now so only fair we do the same. Crochet is already what he is. You can’t predict injuries, I seen you red sox fans fail miserably at it in the Sale trade comments!!!! Bam!!!!
Wow I can’t stop putting Cease instead of Crochet.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I hope this isn’t Erik Bedard 2.0. Crochet is giving me Bedard vibes from the Mariners giving a haul for him and then he swiftly petered out upon arrival in Seattle.
YourDreamGM
@Atloriolesfan Love the feedback. But Burnes not as good. Declining data that gms hopefully look at. More arbitration $. Less years of control. And hopefully teams don’t look at round drafted to determine the value of the prospect. Crochet much more valuable than Burnes. With more years he’s at least twice as valuable. Thinking of it that way it might be a completely fair trade! But you undervalued the Burnes return because of round drafted.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@DreamGM once your identity is finally revealed everybody here will exhale loudly and whisper under their breath “There was true Baseball Genius here commenting amongst us!°°”
YourDreamGM
@Ignorant If the Red sox crowd ever doubts my greatness they can just go look what they said about the Sale trade vs what I said lol.
I gotta try to be nicer to them. They had a lot of rumors that didn’t have a chance of happening. Their front office failed them for years. They finally got one though. This is a trade you make. It’s painful but you make it.
AM21
Crochet has an extra year of control. O’s gave all that up for one season and a first round exit.
Canuck2
The difference is the O’s only had Burns for a year and Boston will have Crochet for several years.
bwmiller79
I’m happy as a White Sox fan, three starters coming over and a nice arm to boot. Couldn’t have done much better.
Occams_hairbrush
Sure buddy, it’s an F. Whatever makes you feel better
Occams_hairbrush
Thanks for your kindness, The 4 WS championships in the last 21 years have been difficult for certain.
James123
1 year of Corbin Burnes (last year) cost 2 MLB ready bubble top 100 players. Joey Ortiz was exactly as advertised- MLB ready gold glove level fielder (SS and 3b) with hopefully MLB average offense, and DL Hall was also as advertised, fireballer lefty that is always hurt and huge bullpen risk.
Teel alone is worth more than those 2 combined, and while he is the headliner, Montgomery is also a top 60 prospect and at least 1 other prospect was very good.
James123
Chrocet is really underpaid due to those innings. The next 2 years will cost like 7 million for chrocet. Burnes was already making almost 20. Even if you think Chrochet would only get the Frankie Montas or Boyd contracts, that is still about 30 m in excess value.
bwmiller79
Boston added an Ace to their pitching staff. White Sox got a few really good prospects. Meidroth will be our second baseman. If Colson can cut down on the K’s, and Vargas can find his form at the plate, our infield is looking pretty good. Braden Montgomery is a nice player in the OF. We could keep Robert in CF, add a big bopper at DH. Our SP prospects are nice. Got Shane Smith in the rule 5, could be a good arm for us too. White Sox are in a roll today.
ibuititnoonecame
I agree way to much unless he is a key factor in a WS win and stays 5-7 years
sonorawind
Two years is several years?
baseballfreak25
Totally agree with you here. Seems like so many players now are hyped up on one or two seasons then when they’re flops everyone criticizes trades or contracts that were disastrous to begin with. Trout was out of this world until he got paid. Now he’s the guaranteed first one on the IL every year. Soto is next. Until teams get wise and have performance classes put in these contracts it’s going to be that way. Once they get guaranteed generational wealth, they lose the will to play.
GarryHarris
I have to admit, I didn’t notice all these fast tracked prospects picked up by the Chaim Bloom team. Has BoSox’s developmental system changed or improved since Bloom left. Often times, it’s not just about who they draft, even more importantly, how they develop players.
Robertguyette
Chris Sale
jmi1950
Bosox get 2 yrs and at least a comp pick if they can’t extend him.
Northeasternskier
Meidroth is an on-base machine. He’s really good.
BPax
The White Sox traded another stud lefty when they sent Sale to the Bosox for “can’t miss” Moncada, who has mostly missed.
YourDreamGM
Very few can’t miss prospects. Moncada wasn’t one of them. This trade doesn’t have any. Doesn’t even have any elite prospects. Top 50 isn’t top 20 and top 20 isn’t top 10. I haven’t seen enough of Teel to know for myself but I heard from a few catchers that believe he is a mlb catcher. Pretty safe floor of average catcher. Only safety in tbis trade. Montgomery could be a good player if he keeps k rate reasonable. All 4 have talent and ceiling but aren’t complete players yet.
Don’t know if development is improving or not. I don’t follow closely enough and Breslow probably hasn’t been there long enough. I thought bloom did alright. Mayer Teel were easy calls but some gms would have passed on them, they are that stupid.
all in the suit that you wear
Teel and Montgomery are the big pieces. I don’t like losing them, but they are both LH hitting and they needed to unload some LH hitting. Montgomery is a switch hitter, but he is much better from the left side and there was talk of him only batting LH.
roob
Light return for the Sox. They already have a great catching prospect. Montgomery is far away from the bigs.
As a Sox fan its disappointing
deweybelongsinthehall
You kidding Roofs? Great return. Medroith while not highly mentioned like others seems ready. Teal is a top catching prospect and Montgomery was the team’s first round choice last year and was already considered a top prospect
FenwayFanatic
Which Sox????
JackStrawb
Doesn’t seem light, but at the same time it does seem like the Mets—rumored to have been very interested—could have beaten it.
The problem may have been that the Mets best prospects are in the upper minors.
brushbackmlb
I was a little surprised at the White Sox getting another catching prospect…. but if they all pan out, then the Sox can eventually trade from that position of depth.
Alex O.
I was hoping the Mets got him. Unreliable source, but I heard somewhere on Youtube that they didn’t want to part with Acuna.
MLB-1971
Allin – Agree 100%! Teel and Montgomery are top 100 prospects, and are big losses. Meidroth has an elite hit toll with an on-base-percentage around .450, but not much power. Wikelman has velocity, but his control makes him more of a bullpen piece rather than starter. He struggled to pitch past the 3rd or 4th inning this past season.
Pads Fans
roob, Two top 100 prospects. 3 of the 4 are MLB ready. That seems like a good return. What am I missing?
all in the suit that you wear
Good pitching is extremely expensive.
Big Hurt
Right – I’m not saying Meidroth will be great, but I like the 105 walks last year in AAA at 22.
roob
After further consideration I should not have said “light” for the White Sox. They got a lot of talent back and I like it more upon reflection.
I’m just disappointed that they continue to have no decent outfielders. Montgomery might be terrific in a few years. They’re gonna trade Robert next and if they don’t get a ML ready outfield bat they’re gonna be looking at a couple more 100 loss seasons.
Oh well, White Sox. But, good job Getz on bringing back a lot of talent even if it isn’t exactly fitting the teams right now.
YourDreamGM
@roob Montgomery can be mlb in 2026. Doesn’t matter though. The goal is sustainable winning. Not windows. Talent is talent. And if you have the scouting and development you can get better talent by going younger further away.
old elpaso
Or move one to another position
Uncle Pedro’s Dancing Kittens
Seemed like an awful lot to give up. I hope it is worth it. Did not want to see us lose a great catching prospect, but hopefully this is just the first piece.
JackStrawb
@Alex O. No, Acuna’s not an important prospect. His OPS in 754 PA in the upper minors in the Mets system is .640. He had a great 19 PA to start his MLB career and then did nothing. McNeil and Mauricio are ahead of him on the depth chart at 2B.
The upside is that he failed in AA and AAA as a 21 and 22 year old–he could turn his fortunes around with a strong half-season at the plate in 2025 in AAA. It would help to get a better sense of how the Mets read his chances to stick in CF after playing him there for 31 games there in 2024
JackStrawb
A lot to give up especially if there’s no extension announced in the next few days. 24 years of four strong prospects, overall, for 2 years of Crochet.
Still, if Crochet takes another step forward and goes 170 innings, the Red Sox won’t care how the prospects turn out.
bwmiller79
Meidroth is an OBP machine.
ih8tepaperstraws
The scouting reports in Montgomery said he could be the most major league ready player in the 2024 draft. He’s not that far off. First rounders out of college shouldn’t need much time. The college level game is on par if not better than any minor league level.
Pads Fans
ih8te, Braden Montgomery is slated for rookie ball.
BTW, love your name. I think everybody hates them.
Ozzie Canseco
Comma after “him”
Fever Pitch Guy
Alex – No, this is a horrible decision and I knew it was gonna happen when they refused to include Teel with Anthony & Campbell as untouchable.
Horrible, horrible decision to trade from a position of great weakness. McCann & Wong won’t cut it.
A blatant panic move because they are too damn cheap to pay market rates for guys like Fried and Snell. I’d be shocked if they sign Burnes now, hope they prove me wrong.
rememberthecoop
I’d rather have Crochet than a bloated 8 year deal.
Brewsblow
Problem is, we aren’t built to win in 2 years. This was a massive mistake IMO. I can understand Montgomery, chase and the RHP but not Teel. We don’t have good catchers in the farm. He was knocking on the door for 2025 now he’s changed his socks to White.
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
You will have given up four top prospects, and in two years, crochet will be a free agent.Guess how much he’s going to get paid if he’s any good. talk about kicking the can down the road.
Led Hoyer
I am pretty sure he’s open to extension.
Dogbone
@recooper
But yet you constantly criticize the Cubs for not handing out ‘the bloated contract’ it would take, to sign the free agents who you continually suggest, they should go get.
You’ve been doing that for two years now.
Fever Pitch Guy
coop – Just like it took years to determine the Sale to Boston trade was best with Moncada and Kopech going the other way, it will take years before we know if Mayer would have been the better move for Boston instead of Teel.
But here’s the clincher ….. if Crochet pitches well and stays healthy, he will demand a very bloated longterm contract in 2 years.
And if he pitches poorly or becomes injured again, the deal will be a total bust.
At least if it was Mayer the Sox have several options at shortstop, can’t say the same for the catcher position.
Chasefor28nyy
26 million a year for 8 years or probably more than that for Crochet. This is Sale all over again but without a proven track record. He needs more than one year of being good.
Lilscrappy
@ coop – Crochet refused a trade last year bc he was afraid to pitch in the playoffs while Fried clinched a World Series after someone stomped on his Achilles tendon, but go off
bosoxforlife
In reply to rememberthecoop110% agree. This is just the deal that I was hoping for. Teel has looked a little short of expectations, Montgomery, while a good prospect, is still very much an unknown and the rest are not at the top of the prospect lists. In this ridiculous market for starting pitching getting a pitcher with some control left is a huge advantage.
cwsOverhaul
@Brewsblow: Crochet is a stud and RSox can hammer out a deal that turns 2yrs dirt cheap to 4yrs that is still way below crazy market rate.
He seems to want some security (4/60 perhaps). Reaches FA by 30 for win-win.
The perceived return is high, but it’s on WSox to get really good value out of at least 2.
Mynameisnoname
They why pay to get past the gate or watch from home? So Henry can have more money to invest into his sports group?
Kevin 23
Then you’re an idiot, they gave up Teel and Montgomery for a guy that has an extensive injury history, limited track record, and only 1 year of team control. It was an abysmal overpay by Breslow!
Never Remember
Then you’ll be sorry tomorrow when they sign Burnes. Certainly no better just replacing Pivetta with Crochet
Kevin 23
What? There is ZERO chance Crochet signs for 4/$60 mil, why on Earth would he do that? If he goes out and has a good year he will get $350 mil next year on the open market.
Fever Pitch Guy
alan – Exactly! Anybody who thinks this trade will save the Red Sox money is delusional.
Either Crochet will be a bust, or he will pitch well and then command more than Fried within 2 years. Unless they have already agreed on an extension, which hasn’t been reported yet.
marinersblue96
Boston came out on top of the Sale trade and it isn’t even close, It was a total bust for Chicago, not one player is on the team or really had more than a decent year. Sale was part of the 2018 World Series..
If this trade is slightly close to that it will be another Red Sox win.
Dumpster Divin Theo
No ticky no tocky. Cost of beating out other suitors
Bruin1012
Kevin Crochet has two years of control left he’s not a free agent until 2027 but still it’s an overpay in my estimation brought on by cheap ownership.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@bosox
Teel has looked short of expectations?? He has 138 minor league games with a .838 OPS as a catcher? Unless he had to be moved off of the position, that’s elite.
william-2
I totally agree. I may have regretted missing out seeing a healthy Sale for the length of the deal, but I certainly didn’t regret the trade. Not one day.
jeff Horton
Crochet had/has no right to refuse a trade
JackStrawb
GM’ing in baseball is a continual exercise in kicking the can down the road.
JackStrawb
Not if he’s extended this offseason.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Well Crochett hadn’t gotten paid yet…he was looking out for himself.
Killer of Ignorance
Well of course you would ’cause you’re a Sox fan, you hate the Yankees, and Crochet is what you got. If you could have signed Fried, which Boston tried hard to do, you would have kept all those highly rated prospects and forgot about Crochet. But Breslow heard the fans screaming at him and knew he had to do something to change the narrative. But even so, talk about a desperate overpay.
GoGreen
What a deal. I think if Crochet gets off to a good start, Red Sox will extend him around the All-star break.
deweybelongsinthehall
I’m thinking both sides will compromise before his free agency. That said, his demand has still increased big-time by the contracts offered this week.
deweybelongsinthehall
He wanted security because of his injury history and innings pitched. It might not have been well received but it was shrewd of his agent.
nwwh
That’s not at all why he demanded an extension. He absolutely made the right call. He didn’t want to be the next Matt Harvey.
GoGreen
Tr0ll – chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/07/25/white-so…
YourDreamGM
@The biggest Other than Juan Soto! Most players are open to extension. You have to be crazy or narcissist or something to not want guarantee $ to avoid all risk. Not everyone will be willing to go team friendly but most will give up a few bucks in exchange for security. Especially pitchers.
Killer of Ignorance
Yeah, last season when trade talk popped up about Crochet he unequivocally stated that if was traded. he wasn’t going to log a bunch more innings than he had previously and risk getting hurt unless he received an extension with dollar figures he liked. So yeah, I think Crochet would definitely be willing to consider an extension.
Fever Pitch Guy
Go – That article is from July and pertained to the trade deadline only.
Here’s the key part you seemed to miss after the word “if”:
“a source confirmed Crochet’s desire to receive a contract extension if he’s traded and asked to get out of his starter’s routine, pitch in relief and possibly into October”
Hammerin' Hank
I’d rather have Crochet for some good-to-great prospects than Fried on a long-term deal. Fried has had elbow issues in the past couple of years, and Crochet is younger and better.
GoGreen
Fever – I feel like the article is still pertinent to the subject matter here. Regardless of the timing of the article, overall consensus leaves me thinking Crochet wants to be traded to a contender with money to extend him.
To side with you and the over pay idea… don’t you feel that, if Red Sox brass gave up so much resources to land Crochet that they also had a good idea they could extend him as well? Surely The Red Sox had more than 2 years of control envisioned when they payed such a steep price.
bwmiller79
Right, got two years on Crochet, don’t have to extend him this season, and if he is interested in a team friendly extension in ’25, all the better. Otherwise go out and pitch two seasons of superb ball and get your big deal in ’27.
Bucsfan4ever
Bull snot. Grissom will never be anything but an average player at best. Sale will give the Braves young pitchers leadership and more quality starts. The Braves won that trade hands down
Fever Pitch Guy
Go – That article was all about his not wanting to risk injury in this year’s postseason by being pushed into switching roles or pitching a lot of innings. He wanted to protect himself, and requesting an extension made perfect sense. After all, he was just coming back from surgery and just converted to a starter.
Next year wouldn’t be a concern as he now has an entire year under his belt.
As for the Red Sox extending him, if it hasn’t already been agreed upon then they are taking a big risk because they have an obvious history of balking at paying market rates for pitchers. He would have all the leverage, as the Red Sox would be under enormous pressure to sign him so that the trade doesn’t look as bad.
The Red Sox couldn’t have played this any worse, clearly they are like novices when it comes to negotiating/planning and gauging the market.
Bird4Life
I immediately checked what catchers they had on their 40 man. Only Wong. Mayer would have made more sense for both teams no?
YourDreamGM
@Bird4Life only thing more valuable than a catcher is maybe a ss. I think ss is. SS can play anywhere and if a catcher or cf can hit you want to limit their time there to keep them healthy. Mayer is ranked significantly higher so more valuable. Is he not Boston ss soon?
Bird4Life
I’ve heard Mayer dropped to 4 in their system and Teel was 3. Either way they’re about on the same level and they seem to have some IF options. Moot now that they’ve traded with the Yankees. You can credit giving up that pitcher as part of the Crochet deal too essentially
Fever Pitch Guy
Bird – The article is wrong, they have another catcher … Gasper.
YourDreamGM
@Bird4Life Baseball America mlb both have Mayer still ahead I believe. Really about the only 2 that matter unless you love McDaniel. Doesn’t matter what fangraphs bleacher report say, they’re terrible. Best to watch some games and make your own list like I do. Read some scouting reports. Orjust pay attention and see what source does the best. It really doesn’t matter much if they have the same grades. Like a top 100 72 and 87 is basically the same. Just comes down to preference. But a top 20 is drastically better. Top drastically better than say 17. If the list is done correctly.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Or a reclining buddah
sonorawind
After a recent TJ surgery and only two years from free agency? I kinda doubt it.
ibuititnoonecame
I would rather have an owner that understood and wanted to play in the top of the market…..
Dumpster Divin Theo
He does and will. Just for Liverpool not the Bosox
Dumpster Divin Theo
Or a screaming 8 yr old
JackStrawb
@Hammerin’ Hank I’d rather have Crochet for some good-to-great prospects AND Fried on a long-term deal. Weird that a big market team like the Red Sox can’t do both (and if not Fried then Burnes).
JackStrawb
Elite talent requires seeming overpays.
Subtract the least of those 4 and the deal probably feels noticeably more palatable—would you really not want Crochet over that one prospect?
Fever Pitch Guy
Led – He refused to pitch in the postseason this year without an extension. Sounds like a guy who is demanding and probably not someone easy to sign.
Fever Pitch Guy
Jack – That package was worthy of someone like Skubal, not Crochet.
YourDreamGM
Skubal would have cost you Mayer as well at least. Probably one of elite prospects instead.
ibuititnoonecame
Wow you are wrong
ibuititnoonecame
Mayer is elite himself
Alex O.
@FeverPitch – Prospects aren’t guaranteed, but contracts are. Burnes is already on the downside of his career. He’s still an effective pitcher, but not someone the BoSox are going to want to be paying in 5+years. Maybe they still go after him, but Crochet, at his current price, is a much better gamble.in my opinion at least.
TBBC
@Alex O Yes, as evidenced by his better 2024 season with Baltimore in the AL East than his 2023 season in Milwaukee in the NL Central. Definitely on the decline.
Fever Pitch Guy
Alex – You can’t possibly be serious.
One guy has been a starter for just one year, had an ERA closer to 4 than 3, has pitched more than 54 innings just once and has never pitched more than 146 innings.
The other guy over the last 5 years has a 2.88 ERA, 1.020 WHIP, and has AVERAGED 197 innings over the past 3 years.
Nothing in life is guaranteed, but there’s much lower risk when there’s a proven history of health and performance.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Alex
Father time wins all battles but there’s no expiration date in when it’s going to go bad or HOW bad. If he ends up being a low 4 ERA guy the lady 3 years of the deal but was an ace (top 30 SP) over the last 5 then so be it.
Dumpster Divin Theo
I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley
Bruin1012
Agree Fever was very worried about this overreaction. Teel is more than enough by himself than adding Montgomery that’s an overpay. It’s crazy the next real catching prospect is Johanfran Garcia coming off a terrible injury. I hate this trade.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – You’re the first person I thought of when I heard about this trade because I know how much you follow the prospects. This really sucks.
If it was the exact same package except subbing Mayer for Teel, I’d be okay with it.
Horace Fury
Brooks Brannon had a really strong AFL. I wonder if that gave the Red Sox some encouragement about catchers coming up behind Teel. And yes, I too worry about Johanfran coming back off a knee injury–certainly troublesome for a catcher.
Bruin1012
He’s not really very good Johanfran could be a legit catching prospect but his injury was horrible. They have a guy that played DSL ball but they are now really thin in catcher.
Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree
They were never signing Burnes, Fever. Just like they were never signing Soto or Fried
Fever Pitch Guy
Mango – So they were signing Snell? Haha!
They have plenty of payroll space to sign any of those three guys. Whether they had any intention to do so, who knows.
AndyMeyer
It really says something about the market when a 30 year old pitcher with a history of injuries gets 218 million over 8 years
Unclemike1526
That’s a nice haul for the White Sox. Kudos to Getz for a job well done. We’ll see who it helps more in a few years. Teel and Montgomery are nice pieces.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Andy
What did it say when Wheeler got an extension, meaning closed market, for 3/$126 , which averages out to $42 each for his 35-37 age? SP costs, and no pitcher is signing short-term deals unless they’re in their mid 30s.
AndyMeyer
@Knicks
Keyword is extension. Totally different than a free agent signing. Wheeler has been absolutely dominant. Max Fried? Not so much
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Andy
Actually, the word is precedent. Wheeler signed for $42 mil for his 35-37 age in a closed market with no competitors. Whether it’s a extension or FA signing, he set the market. Snell just signed for a huge amount. In the last 4 years Fried has has a slightly lower ERA than Wheeler with a slightly higher FIP. As a lefty, he’s 2nd in War and leads or is top 3 in almost all categories. So Fried, is elite and signed for about $15 mil less than Wheeler.
william-2
I have been living a few years in Charlottesville, so I got to watch Teel a bit at the University of Virginia. This is not a guy you want to trade……at all. He is the best catcher on the team, and he isn’t even in the majors. All around good egg too. The White Sox will never doubt his character, or work ethic.
I am not saying he is a perennial all-star masher, but I am saying he is very good at everything. He hits, has deep great at-bats, He adepts amazingly well and quickly from during at bats to how pitchers change against him in season. Catches and throws well and is a very good and smart baserunner. Personally, I think he may have ended up being one of the best catchers we would have had in a few decades. Shame, but I wish him the best.
I have watched Montgomery play a few times as well. He may end up being a fine toolsy player, or an absolute stud. The floor for him is pretty high. He makes it to the show for sure just on raw athleticism and potential. The question for him is what level of play he reaches at the MLB level and for how many years.
The other two I would be willing to trade without much second guessing. Not because they are not good, but just because even if they are good, they do not seem to me like elite mainstays on our own team, and we are a .500 team.
Blueberry
@Fever Pitch Guy — Such a silly take. The difference between Teel and another catcher they can afford is not as significant as the difference between potentially landing a left-handed ace who wants to sign an extension and their current LHSP depth… which is… well, nothing. Not having a LHH C will also help the handedness issue of the team LT. I am not saying trading Teel is desirable, but it isn’t unreasonable either.
Fever Pitch Guy
Blue – You actually nailed it when you wrote “potential ace”.
The Red Sox paid a heckuva price for “potential”.
So it’s basically hold their breath that an injury-plagued pitcher can stay healthy.
Hold their breath that he can pitch more than 146 innings in a season.
Hold their breath that his ERA will come down from 3.58
And if he accomplishes all that, hold their breath that they will be able to sign him to a reasonable extension.
That’s a whole lot of wishes that need to come true for this to be a good deal for Boston.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Blue
He’s about to hit arb. My guess is that after seeing what SP are getting, he may no longer be looking for an extension. If so, maybe by out his 2 arb years plus 1 FA year.
all in the suit that you wear
Blueberry: Teel is a bit small for a catcher which may have played into their thinking. 4 of the Red Sox top 5 prospects were LH hitters. So, I think the odds are at least one would be traded at some point.
Killer of Ignorance
It’s a real pleasure to come across an honest, objective, thoughtful Red Sox fan who discusses baseball in a logical, common sense fashion. My take: Crochet has a chance to be an outstanding pitcher, and there were a ton of teams that wanted him. But the Red Sox did give up a lot. However, you never know with prospects. More will be revealed in the next couple of years. Anyway, keep up the good work Fever Pitch Guy.
william-2
Teel 6′ foot 195ish. Wong is 6’1″ 190ish. Vasquez 5’9″ 200
The Red Sox collect little guys. I do not think it was an issue, especially when he is probably going to put on more muscle weight.
all in the suit that you wear
Teel is 6’0″ and 190 lbs. Christian Vazquez is 5’9″ and 205 lbs. Adley Rutschman is 6’2″ and 230 lbs. Jose Trevino is 5’10” and 215 lbs. Buster Posey was 6’1″ and 213 lbs. Pudge Rodriguez was 5’9″ and 205 lbs. Jason Varitek was 6’2″ and 230 lbs. Carlton Fisk was 6’3″ and 200 lbs. Teel is exceptionally small for a catcher and I think this may have played into the Red Sox thinking.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@all
That’s so weird. I’ve never heard of a team trading a player because they have a glut of “handedness.” I could see them having a bunch of middle infielders and deciding to use some for trade bait, but never because they’re right or left-handed.
Hammerin' Hank
With 2.69 FIP and a 2.53 SIERA his ERA is very likely coming way down from that 3.58 mark. ERA is a crude stat with lots of luck and variance baked in from year to year. K and BB rates are much more consistent year-to-year and his are elite. He’s easily one of the top ten starters in baseball and better than Max Fried.
Hammerin' Hank
He’s already an outstanding pitcher. Did you not see what he did last year? He could have pitched more innings. The White Sox knew they were trading him so why would they push him over 150 innings? There was no need to.
Samuel
all in the suit that you wear;
LOL
I’ve read screwball arguments here, but this one may be the funniest.
The catcher crouches down behind the plate. What does size have to do with anything? He’s not playing 1B and taking erratic throws from infielders.
Yogi was short. Roy Campanella was short. Johnny Bench was 6’1 / 185….same as Bill Dickey. Ted Simmons was 5-11 / 193.
What’s the GD point?
Sure the game’s different. Here’s one way: Those gentlemen started 90% of their teams games each year at Catcher, and often got into at least another 5% by either playing another position or pinch hitting.
–
The White Sox had far-and-away the top trade piece on the market, and they expected quality back. There was a bidding war. The Red Sox won. Mr. Teel was the top player they got back. And you think there’s something wrong with him? He’s too short or doesn’t weigh enough…or weighs too much? Really?
Fever Pitch Guy
Knick – I totally agree!
And it’s especially puzzling when it’s lefthanded hitters they want to subtract from, considering 74% of all MLB pitchers are righthanded.
all in the suit that you wear
I am saying that the Red Sox may have viewed Teel as not a good long-term bet to stay at catcher since he is small for catcher. I made it clear I am speculating. Nothing wrong with that.
B dog 351
At least we know that we still have Connor Wong to remind us of the Mookie trade.
B Thomas
As a huge baseball fan. Watch and attend 180 plus games a year. Crochet has amazing stuff he literally has top 3 stuff I have seen in my 50 years of baseball. Give him 5 starts and then come on here and tell me you want Burnes instead. If I was Boston I’d immediately offer 6/160 and extend him.
Unclemike1526
White Sox are stacked at C now. Their Minor League Pitching is going to be formidable Major League talent. So they’re pretty solid up the middle for awhile with or without Robert. Liked Teel since he was in College. I really don’t understand why the Red Sox couldn’t sign Burnes AND trade for Crochet. Be an immense upgrade to an already good rotation. It’s not like they don’t have the money, But I guess it depends on the budget, Same as the Cubs. Not to mention they could probably match the Yankees P for P if they did that.
azcm2511
So what is your preferred solution? Do you think paying Fried 220 over 8 or 260 over 8 for Burnes is good business?
Fever Pitch Guy
azcm – My solution was to sign Snell who BTW went for $182M and had no QO attached to him.
And again, substitute Mayer for Teel and I’d have been okay with this deal.
petfoodfella
As a Braves fan, Fried’s deal is a huge overpay. He’s missed a good bit of time last few years and never really got the blister issue taken care of.
If I’m Boston, prob smart to not pay that contract for 8 years.
RunDMC
The blister hadn’t kept him out for 5 years. That’s more manageable than the forearm issue that kept him out twice in the last 2 years, and a much larger red flag, imho.
Killer of Ignorance
What a joke. You need a new routine. It’s always, “as a Yankee fan, as a Braves fan, as a Mets fan”, etc. and then go on to badmouth what the Yankees did. How about “as a Red Sox fan”…. your true persona?
Killer of Ignorance
It’s so typical of Boston fans. If the Yankees get the player it’s always a terrible deal. If Boston would have won the bidding it would be a fabulous deal. And the real idiots seem to show up after school gets out.
WaitTil2026
I don’t know that Teel is the answer either, Fever…
NYCityRiddler
The Sox’s are about to get hosed! Which Sox you ask, I think we all the know answer to that. Ahahahaha!
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
Burns is going to cost them more than 30 mil a year. However, they haven’t spent any money on any other notable free agents. Spend the money on burns.And you will have a competitive team with crochet and burns at the top of the order.
Goose
Red Sox traded two of the top 20 prospects in baseball, Kopech and Moncada with Basabe and Diaz for Chris Sale. That was suppose to be a dumb trade. Prospects are unpredictable.
Fever Pitch Guy
Goose – You really need to look at Sale’s numbers in the years prior to when the Red Sox acquired him.
Sorry but comparing Sale to Crochet is laughable.
Bruin1012
Agreed FPG. Sale had a much more extensive track record than Crochet who pitched like an ace for half a season.
The Red Sox just traded their top draft pick from the last two years who happen to be the 25th and 60th best prospects in baseball for a guy that has shown he can handle a starters load for only a half a season. You can’t even compare him remotely to Chris Sale.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If the socks fit, you must acquit.
earmbrister
It certainly did cost Boston a lot. FOUR top 15 prospects (per pipeline) including 2 top 5 prospects.
Pitching is king.
Fever Pitch Guy
earm – You know that’s not four Top 15 MLB prospects ….. right?
Team rankings is almost meaningless.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@fever
he said ‘pipeline”
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Why though? Boston is a premiere franchise with a relatively low payroll (11th last year; currently 13th next year).
RobM
The Sox of Red paid a high price to the Sox of White, but Crochet won’t cost them much dollar wise, which means they can still add elsewhere.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Sure, but he isn’t saying that. He’s saying giving up top prospects to get Crochet is better than just spending the money to get Burnes. I disagree. Even if they spend big money on Burnes, they still have plenty of room to spend more money while still having the top prospects.
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
Without burns, the deal for crochet does not make sense because the team will not reach the playoffs.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Alex
Did you post this before or after seeing the haul? I ask because I’m coming to this late. That’s a he’ll of a haul for a guy with only 2 years of control.
1 legit top 50 prospect, a 2024 1st round pick that hasn’t even debuted in the minors, a guy in Merideth that looks like a future top 100 guy this year and a lottery power arm. Red Sox paid up on this one.
Honestly, I would rather just pay for Burnes considering the Sox have money to spend, and Crochet only has 2 years of control.
Bobby smac9
John Henry ain’t parting with cash. They’ll have to stay within the budget allocated for 2025.. This does address the rotation to an extent.
Unclemike1526
I’m still trying to figure out who Kevin Crochet is? Does he have a brother?
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Bobby
Unless the offer was a farce, they just put that $700 mil allegedly offered to Soto, back in their pocket.
all in the suit that you wear
Soto is 26 and will probably opt out in 5 years. Burnes is 30 and will probably not opt out of his long contract. I think that’s a huge difference.
Bobby smac9
Those prospects are sunk costs. Already paid.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Win-win deal
CrikesAlready
Ah… Except that Crochet’s arm isn’t built up innings-wise. Unproven…
Wrian Washman
Why not both?
MysteryWhiteBoy13
I guess they are getting more than middling players this offseason
BITA
Not sure why the White Sox want Teel but oh well.
If this isn’t full throttle I don’t know what is. Go Sawx!
myaccount2
He’s a great prospect. The White Sox should be trying to acquire as many quality prospects as possible, regardless of position. They can always trade them later if they don’t fit.
BITA
The White Sox need outield and 1b help. They have a top rated catcher already.
MysteryWhiteBoy13
Sure, because teams that lose 120 games should only be trying to fill positions of need at the major league level
LFGSD619
Who?
Aiden Awe
1b is the last thing the Wsox should be focusing on.
avenger65
BITA: The White Sox need help EVERYWHERE, especially P where they’re about to get much worse. But great to see Crochet going to Boston, where he’ll be reunited with Gio and Hendriks. Can Cease be far behind?
myaccount2
It doesn’t matter. Like I said, they can move Teel later if they need to. Plus there is no guarantee Quero works out. He could be a bust. Or they could move Teel to 1B. Lots of possibilities here.
BITA
Quero is the number 59 prospect in baseball. They really didn’t need a catcher. At all.
myaccount2
Right, because we’ve never seen the number 59 prospect in baseball turn out to be totally useless, huh?
BITA
Why would a team that lost 120 games last year need 2 top 60 overall catching prospects? They need outfield help. 1b help. More pitching. But they really didn’t need another catcher.
shortstop
They can always make another trade in the future. They need to be hoarding as much talent as possible right now.
myaccount2
I already explained it pretty clearly, I thought. Terrible teams need valuable assets. Quality prospects are valuable assets. He could be kept and utilized or traded for other quality pieces. Teams who lost 120 games aren’t looking to compete the next season. They have time to figure out how to use them simulatenously. If they can’t, they move one. If one busts, then they covered their bases.
Look no further than the SF Giants for reasons to have two quality catching prospects. Fans were upset when they drafted Bailey because they had Bart waiting in the wings. Looks like they was a smart decision after all.
MysteryWhiteBoy13
Because prospects are used as trade capital and having high end prospects helps teams make trades.
You are also aware that it’s possible both of those top catching prospects flame out
ponytail01
Query is not a good catcher. He can play first when the Sox trade Vaughn.
fermier
Yeah, but they are one injury away from having no catcher of consequence..
JScottG
With Edgar Quiero traded for in the Angels deal there is no need for another C prospect!
Only way you deal him to Boston is if Anthony, Mayer, or Robinson is involved period! No need to just take what they’ll give you.
Getz is terrible at giving away talent in trades and getting low hauls back. The Dodgers 3 way trade was bad, this is worse.
Rexhudler86
@bita. Quero’s only knock is his defense at catcher maybe they move him to 1st or dh.
azcm2511
Who is Robinson?
BITA
Bart had a good 2024. They probably should have kept him. But he had no place to play. Because they had Bailey……
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Bita
they need to take the best available and they just got a nice haul.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Bita
You never know which one will succeed at the mlb level but you can STILL trade one. I’m sure teams will line up to get Teel.
Killer of Ignorance
I’m agreeing with you. Some teams like to acquire talent regardless of position. They will take the best player available thinking if that player clicks, he will be valuable some way, some how. BTW, catcher is one of the most difficult positions to develop, especially offensively. That’s why there are so many good defensive catchers but not too many who dominate offensively. But there are a few. That catcher for KC come to mind…Salvador Perez, I believe? He’s become a better hitter in his thirties.
Pads Fans
avenger, Morosi said the Padres were asking for much more t for Cease than what the White Sox got for Croche.
Pads Fans
BITA, Teel is the #25 prospect in all of baseball. They got a better catching prospect, especially on the defensive side.
YourDreamGM
It’s 2024. You need 2 catchers. Catchers can dh or maybe play 1b. Ss 2b 3b can play 1b. Last thing you trade for is 1b because if they can’t play 1b only other spot they can move to is dh..
BITA
You also need an outfield. And pitching.
YourDreamGM
Giants were so good Barts bat couldn’t play elsewhere and Bailey caught every single game. I can see why they gave him away for some mid round reliever.
cwsOverhaul
Bita: Good news is the CF market is bad. Despite the whining thru media by club execs that ask is too high for Robert (don’t doubt that), Getz will adjust for a return between his great ’23 and bad/hurt ’24 season.
He now has clarity to seek out a ‘win now’ trade partner that is willing to deal a good prospect OF or pitcher as headliner……plus after Crochet trade clubs will know not to waste time offering junk and believe him that it’s no service time burned talent that will seal the deal.
BITA
Hey regardless of if they really needed Teel I like what the White Sox have done and are doing. And yeah if they get a good centerfield prospect and more pitching for Robert that would make a lot of sense.
Smacky
Maybe they have concepts of a plan to flip him to someone else. They’re allowed to do that.
James123
they will lose 100 games next year too- they do not need big leaguers right now. Teel may end up getting flipped too since he is MLB ready, so they may do better getting several more raw players in return- but those are hard deals to pull off.
myaccount2
@JScottG- The White Sox have two years of Crochet with no ability to compete in those two years. The longer they waited, the lesser the package would become. I would be hard pressed to believe a team would offer a better package than this one. Nobody was giving up top 10 prospects in Mayer or Anthony for only two years of Crochet while Teel is arguably better than Campbell (who I think you meant when you said Robinson).
This was better than some even expected. It’s weird to be unhappy with this return.
myaccount2
Bart had a good 2024 in a part time role (which is not what you hope for from a top prospect) and was only good once he left SF. And he’s still not better than Bailey.
YourDreamGM
Bart wasn’t part time.
GarryHarris
Korey Lee is not a top rated catcher.
Robertguyette
2 prospects at the same position allow you to hold one of them longer in the minors before starting the arbitration clock.
cwsOverhaul
Catcher is also such an important defensive and leadership position on a club. If it turns out Quero or Teel hit well, but lack development of those skills, you don’t want them being a primary backstop.
No one loses sleep if they stumble upon a couple good in-house defenders that as a bonus both hit.
Pads Fans
Quero is not a good defensive catcher. He has shown that clearly.
cwsOverhaul
Yeah-sounds like it would be a challenge to make him even average at catching. Give the man a 1B glove in AAA to see if he can play there without being a Def liability. That’s why Teel as a return seemed logical rather than puzzling.
nrd1138
Doesn’t matter, any guys the White Sox get are going to flail in an org that has zero development unless you are a touted pitcher. At least its been that way for over 20 years. Yes that also includes Moncada who was, IIRC, #2 prospect in the Red Sox org at the time and we saw how that played out. Sale injuries or not, the Red Sox got a WS out of him and the White Sox got a prima donna who did nothing other than find ways to ride the bench with injuries.
yanks fan32
Teel gonna be a STUD that’s why
Occams_hairbrush
Crochet already is one.
MeowMeow
Teel is more likely to be one when Chicago is ready to try and contend again. Crochet can’t help them in the short term.
saluelthpops
He was a stud for three months. I think the Chisox know something here.
SnowflakeAlert
Not sure anything or anyone is going to be able to help them in the short term
desertdan
The ChiSox lost 121 games last year and need young, controllable talent. They HAD to trade Crochet and got a good package for him. Win for both teams I think
JScottG
Get lost. Lefy hitting C’s always turn into platoon players and they already traded for a top young rated C in Edgar Quiero from LA Angels.
MoneyBallJustWorks
cause catchers that hit .300 in the minors likely can hit .260-270 in the majors and that is well above avg for the position.
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
Johanfran Garcia was hitting around 330 before was injured but at a lower level than Teel.
Ben T
Solid catching prospects might be the most rare commodity in all baseball.
Fever Pitch Guy
Ben – You are 100% correct, and solid MLB catchers is also a rarity.
When you’ve got guys like Vazquez making $10M annually and Jansen making $8M annually, that goes to show how desperate teams are for catchers.
What a boneheaded Red Sox move if indeed Teel goes to the ChiSox.
hiflew
Exactly, they could have the next Joey Bart right there.
Rexhudler86
@hiflew. Or they could’ve the next logan o’hoppe.
Mynameisnoname
Full throttle would be ponying up capital and keeping the top prospects or signing Burnes and swinging this trade, but after missing out on Soto, Snell and Fried with Burnes too pricey, they finally realized what everyone else did- they matched up perfectly with the White Sox for a swap.
Led Hoyer
Nobody flames out at a higher rate than catching prospects. Stock pile 2 or 3 you might hit on one.
Led Hoyer
Last two first round picks but none of their studs. Boston did great.
BITA
I don’t know Boston seems to be giving up a lot here. I like this deal better for the White Sox.
MeowMeow
Gonzalez and Meidroth are average prospects. Teel is going to sting, and Montgomery could definitely develop into a strong player, but he was always a bit of a question mark due to injury: he was something of a “buy low” 1st round pick this year for Boston.
BITA
I think Teel and Montgomery alone was too much to give up for Crochet.
Led Hoyer
It was none of their top guys. Two years of a cheap ace is going to hurt a little bit.
Fernando P
@Meow – White Sox want to corner the market on guys named Montgomery (Braden, Colson).
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
They gave up their fourth and sixth top prospects in a loaded minor league system.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Now they just need the Dback Montgomery and Montgomery Burnes. Excellent
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
Montgomery was the stud in the deal. this package of prospects is so deep. I’m just curious to know why seattle wouldn’t accept this deal for Woo or any of their other staters except for castillo.
BITA
Seattle isn’t rebuilding. They probably just didn’t want prospects.
alan.kawadler@verizon.net 2
Johanfran garcia, maybe a better catching prospect, both defensively and offensively. Than teel.
DirtyWater04
Garcia is also 20 years old and several years away. Teel might need a little bit of polish left but that’s about it, he’s very close to ML ready.
Northeasternskier
He’d make a good first baseman.
Big whiffa
WS have no clue….massive haul ? Catchers should have their own rankings. 1 in a 100 top catching prospects turn out to be elite stars. Then they bought high on a draftee and took a dude who can’t hit out of the infield.
Massive haul MLBTR ?? ROTF….what are you talking about ???
myaccount2
Big Whiffa- Seems like most agree with MLBTR about it being a massive haul. Kinda weird to be so confidently standoffish when you’re in the minority.
YourDreamGM
@myaccount2 “Kinda weird to be so confidently standoffish when you’re in the minority.”
I do it often and almost always right. However Big Whiffa isn’t me and is indeed wrong. Crochet so good and valuable even Chicago couldn’t mess it up. 2 unanimous top 100 top 50 prospects. Teams don’t give those up easily these days.
beardedsoxfan
Huge acquisition for the Sox
avenger65
bearded: The red ones, I presume you meant.
Dumpster Divin Theo
He meant the baseball Sox silly
Degaz
Huge price…
JScottG
BS! Get real. Crochet is a young SP1 or SP2. One of the R Sox Top 3 prospects HAD to come back for him or you move on.
WaitTil2026
The Red Sox didn’t give up their top three – just #4 and #5 and a couple lower down.
Fever Pitch Guy
beard – Couldn’t be bothered to write which Sox team, eh?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Which Sox?
Dumpster Divin Theo
Green Sox?
Dumpster Divin Theo
It’s like which Dakota
Pads Fans
I assume you mean both Sox, right?
VonPurpleHayes
I called this. Phils, Mets and Yanks didn’t have the prospects (or willingness to trade the right prospects) to get this done. Red Sox made the most sense of those teams interested.
BITA
I called it too champ. The Sox leadership basically said they were looking to make a big trade. The Red Sox needed a top of the rotation lefty starter. It makes a lot of sense.
VonPurpleHayes
We are both excellent. Virtual fist bump.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Who ya calling champ chump
bc85
Cookie for you
rct
I think you’re right about the “willingness” thing. According to MLB Pipeline, these are the 4, 5, 11, and 14th best prospects in the Sox system (Teel 25th, Montgomery 54th overall). Either the Mets or the Yanks could theoretically have beaten that, but that’s a steep price to pay when you are trying to build the farm. I’m glad the Mets didn’t do it as it would have cost Sproat, Williams, and more. White Sox did well here, Red Sox get their man.
YourDreamGM
Most or all teams could beat it. Just even after this trade Boston has a better farm system than half the teams. Yankees have some overrated trash imo. Dominguez has value but Sox might not, should not want mlb ready experience. Not really a prospect in many eyes. Mets have the guys but not as many as Boston had. Philly had the guys but they would be hurting bad after this trade. Boston perfect match. I didn’t call it though. I was too busy making wise cracks about Boston being interested in everyone and Cherington trading 3 young starting pitchers for a Platoon 1b.
ponytail01
Brewers had the prospects but I like this deal.
VonPurpleHayes
Brewers did as well, but they didn’t seem to be one of the aggressive pursuers.
Samuel
LOL
The Brewers develop their own pitchers (as they do with position players).
They started the season missing their 2 aces (Burns-traded and Woodruff-injured). They finished 5th in MLB in team ERA. Both before the season and after there aren’t 2 pitchers on their roaster that 98% of non-Brewer fans posting here can name (they can name Devin Williams because he’s a trade candidate).
–
The offseason is nice. But regular season team results are primarily a matter of players the teams had under contract (at any level) that get better or worse.
Robertguyette
The Brewers pitching looks great because of their emphasis on defense behind them. As a bargain shopper you collect skills that are lower $$ to secure. Right now spoed and defense are overlooked. Which is why they could legitimately walk away with 3 Gold Gloves next year for guys making pre-Arb money. If you compare balls in play becoming hits for the Brewers compared to a poor fielding team like the Cardinals. It’s about 3 extra hits per game. This is a huge difference that gets overlooked by even the experienced fans.
Killer of Ignorance
No doubt…
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Why do I keep having flashbacks to left handed power arm Erik Bedard being traded for high end prospect outfielder Adam Jones??? I hope this movie ends better for the Red Sox than it did for the Mariners way back when.
redmatt
Well, this oughta be fun.
SoxBruinsSaints
I’m not sure Teel was the guy that should go. Especially since we can’t seem to find a catcher to backup Wong
BITA
Maybe they are getting Quero back. White Sox really didn’t need a catcher.
avenger65
BITA: Do you really think Kory Lee is a good C? He wouldn’t even be a backup on most teams.
BITA
Quero is a top prospect. Kory Lee is a nobody.
Fever Pitch Guy
BITA – Red Sox have been pursuing McCann, there’s an article here on it.
YourDreamGM
I’m sure Chicago would have accepted Anthony or Campbell if you wanted to keep Teel.
Sad.Sox 3
You have to give to get. I like this.
Extend him too, at worst he’s your Closer of the future…..BUT, at best he could be Randy Johnson
BITA
At best he’s Chris sale
Uh oh. Too soon?
Dumpster Divin Theo
BITAs a cut up comment. Oops, I did it again
dirtyjog
What do you mean, that means future Cy Young! With the Red Sox…..with the Red Sox, right?
Occams_hairbrush
Sale was awesome in the playoffs.
Killer of Ignorance
Whoa now. While Crochet has good velocity on his fastball, he doesn’t throw nearly as hard as Randy Johnson did. Some people think Randy Johnson in his prime was the best lefthander ever. I wouldn’t evoke RJ’s name in a Crochet comp. Actually, with that leg kick that Crochet has I don’t know who you could compare him to.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Crochets leg kick is John Cleese from that Python sketch
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
The Ministry of Silly Walks
Keena
As a hopeless Yankees fan, I think the Red Sox got a very promising pitcher in Crotchet. It’s safe to say he won’t be Randy Johnson though. lol It will be interesting to see if Crotchet or Fried works out better for their new teams. I’d love to see the Yanks get Burnes, but Hal is too cheap. The Yanks will need all the pitching they can get, with virtually no offense whatsoever. Without Judge, this team would be lucky to win 60 games. As the roster currently stands, I think this could very well be the year that the Yankees finish under .500.
Sad.Sox 3
I not saying he WILL be Randy johnson, but i’m not saying that he’s not gonna be Randy Johnson either, LOL
All i’m saying is, at the age of 25 he struck out 200 mlb hitters in 146 innings. RJ didnt strike out 200 until he was 28.
Keena
I guess you never know for sure, but Randy Johnson is arguably one of the top 5 starting pitchers of all-time. That’s aiming high. As someone else said, I think he has a better chance of being Chris Sale, which is pretty damn good, too! The Sox and Yanks both have a new left handed toy in their rotation. It will be interesting to see who does better. Sadly, the Red Sox OR Yankees don’t stand a prayer of winning a World Series in the foreseeable future, but, Boston will win one before the Yankees do. Guaranteed.
dirtyjog
This trade makes me uneasy as a Red Sox fan, but big trades are supposed to make you feel uneasy – gotta give something to get something.
Wong is still 28 with three years of control, I don’t think we should let grooming the heir apparent get in the way of solving our rotation hole(s). Regardless of how this pans out, this was the aggressive approach the fans were asking for…here we go!
DirtyWater04
Wong is a quality big league catcher already, but that also means Teel could’ve made him the trade chip instead of the other way around. So many catching prospects flame out so on that hand I get being more willing to trade him than the other three top prospects in the system, but with his athletic and defensive profile I do really think Teel is going to make it. But we needed to do it, couldn’t continue to neglect the pitching staff the way they have been, and you’re right, gotta give to get.
Keena
DirtyWater04, Do you think Joe Torre would’ve gone to Jose Contreras or Gabe White, in Game 7, 2003, had Boone not hit the walk off HR? I would’ve left Rivera in for at least 7 innings, if need be. It was Game 7, after all. Win or lose with your best.
hiflew
So you don’t think giving up a #2 catcher is worth getting a potential TOR starter? I don’t think you can go further down the totem pole and still find anything that works..
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Son of a Beast…. he’s good. Never like to see the Red Sox improve.
Mynameisnoname
Great move for the Sox. Surprised at least Mayer isn’t involved.
BITA
I thought a 1 for 1 Mayer for Crochet made sense. Maybe Mayer was worth a bit more than Crochet.
Ronk325
Lmao, there’s no way you’re serious
avenger65
BITA: You’ve got to be kidding. I doubt Getz has even heard of Mayer.
Mynameisnoname
Every comedian could use one or two of you in the crowd. Teel is the least revered of the “big 4” and Mayer was a potential no. 1 overall pick when he fell to the Sox at 4.
Crochet had 209K vs 33BB in 146 IP. I think the White Sox could have easily leveraged Mayer with the Sox clearly in saving face mode.
Teel is a great prospect. Catchers are obviously the riskiest prospects and the nature of their position makes consistent offensive output difficult, but I’m just a bit surprised he is the headliner.
Pads Fans
Ronk, sadly he is.
YourDreamGM
Is any 1 prospect worth 2 years of one if the most dominant starters in baseball? It would have to be can’t miss. That’s not Meyer. Not Crews. Skenes Harper Strasburg easily. Somewhere in between would be the debate. It’s tuff. Holiday I have questions. I like Jenkins Clark but can’t do it. Jobe is only one that comes to mind and that’s risky. Would have to go back to Witt Adley Julio.
GooseGoslinGuy
Crochet highlights: youtube.com/watch?v=SPL8GfVByiU.
If he’s healthy, Red Sox did really well. You have to give to get. White Sox need to stockpile talent, so this was the risk they had to take. Hoping the White Sox see marked improvement in ’25.
Pads Fans
The White Sox #1 catching prospect is terrible behind the plate, but hits very well. He is ticketed for 1B/DH in the majors, so a trade for Teel who has a great glove and is nearly MLB ready makes a lot of sense for them.
KingKen
Maybe 2 months ago but once the free agent prices for pitching started to go through the roof the trade price for Crochet went up as well. No way a 1 for 1 was going to happen.
BITA
Mayer is a stud prospect. Top 10 in all of baseball.
JScottG
He’s not. Crochet straight up worth more than Mayer, or Anthony, or Robinson!
BigWorm78
Who exactly, is Robinson? You’ve mentioned him twice…if he’s a prospect on the level of Mayer or Anthony; I’d like to know more about him. As would we all I’d wager…since the rest of us have never heard of him
Keena
They are talking about Robinson Cano. He has returned to MLB.
spitball
Wrong guy! Mayer is replaceable. Teel is going to come back to haunt Boston.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Teel’s a badass. That kid RAKES.
Occams_hairbrush
.717 OPS at AAA..
Unstoppable.
Pads Fans
28 games in AAA. Ridiculous take.
Fever Pitch Guy
spit – Big time!
rmullig2
The White Sox didn’t want Mayer, they wanted Teel or Anthony.
MoneyBallJustWorks
Teel and possibly Mayer?
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
Possibly no.
YourDreamGM
That was good guess. Got 1 and Montgomery is in that range.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Dear Red Sox-Cease is available too, and Casas would look good in Brown and gold.
That is all.
BITA
Can’t you just enjoy the moment here?
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
No. Good talk.
Kash Considerations
Why did you have to go and rain on this moment, Blackpink?
BITA
I think his moment is always raining
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Joel did you get banned again? I was wondering where you went.
BITA
I reported someone trolling me and then I couldn’t comment anymore. Pretty lame. The dude had a screen name that was just like mine. He said things I might say. He even had a Pug in his profile picture. Next level creepy lol. They can’t keep me down though……
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Yeah someone did that to Fever Pitch Guy awhile back. I guess that person must be really bored as well as mentally disturbed to be such a creepy troll.
Fever Pitch Guy
Ignorant – I’ve dealt with some really obsessed people here, enough for a season’s worth of Dr Phil episodes. It’s gotten much better though, I can’t remember the last time I needed to use the mute button.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Fever- certain people just get insanely triggered by your responses and I just can’t understand why…you don’t name call, you use rational arguments backed by evidence, you don’t nitpick or play the ‘know it all’…SMH maybe some folks are just too sensitive??
Fever Pitch Guy
Ignorant – Yeah it had gotten so bad that years ago certain people went ballistic just because I would say “thoughts & prayers” when somebody died or sustained a serious injury. Some of them resented what they perceived to be a religious aspect with “prayers”, and others were angry because I didn’t post it for a favorite player of theirs …. so they basically demanded that I read and reply to every article here!
I think a couple other reasons are maybe because I sometimes post a lot (guilty as charged) or they resented that I disagreed with them sometimes …. but instead of just ignoring or muting me, they post hateful messages about me and try to get others to hate me. I mean really, are they in middle school or something?
Bottom line is I treat everyone with respect and all I ask in return is for others to do the same, basically don’t get personal with me or namecall.
Oh yeah, they’ve also complained about me complimenting people and giving people thumbs up! This can be such a weird place at times. LOL
Sad.Sox 3
Lets do it!!!! Just need the Sox to sign Pete Alonso first though
Gmen777
Wow really might be down to Blue Jays and Giants for Burnes. Really shocked to not see Mets involvement
Simbosargos
No reason the Sox can’t still go after Burnes. Crochet makes $3MM.
YourDreamGM
No NY..No LA. Bad break for Burnes. I feel sorry for him. And Boras.
rct
I’m not. Splurging on long term pitching has not been in the Mets plans for a while now. Senga’s five year deal is the longest one I can remember in recent years. I don’t see Stearns handing $200+ million to a pitcher with declining peripherals (barrel %s increasing, EVs creeping up, K rates declining every year, ERA+ down, FIP up). Maybe but I don’t see it.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Burnes might end up on this offseason’s version of the “Boras 4” who can’t find contracts until March. Who will be on this year’s team? Burnes, Bregman, Alonso, and ???
S_man_2014
Unless this is paired with the signing of Corbin Burnes, horrible move for the Red Sox. While Crochet is cost controlled for 2 years, how many IL trips will he have in those 2 years? Will his 1st trip to the IL be before of after May 1st?
Occams_hairbrush
Yeah, Such a bad move.
You sure know your stuff.
Thanks for posting.
YourDreamGM
A ton of IL trips. But not nearly as many as that Sale guy with Atlanta.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
(Pssst… what if Garrett Crochet is Erik Bedard?)
Sad.Sox 3
“Nothing ventured, nothing lost”
“Fortune favors the bold”
“You gotta give to get”
“Don’t wait for opportunities, create them”
No one knows what will happen, and the analytics can’t predict the future. One thing is definite, this guy struck out 200 mlb hitters in 146 innings. Lets roll the dice!
Joemo
What a horrible move. Just like I was afraid of the Sox trading for Paxton when he was dfa’d, I didn’t want them to trade for this massive risk.
Crochet’s second half: 38.2IP in 12 games with a 5.12 ERA. That’s our ace!
This organization is ran by clowns.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Well yeah, according to Ken Rosenthal white Sox are acquiring Garrett Crochet from the Red Sox. They’re trading for their own player.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Ooh that would be embarrassing if they realized they already had him: “uh, that’s Garrett from accounting”
Mynameisnoname
Over 200ks vs 33 BB in 146 IP. That’s elite and then some. Make him a 5 IP starter. Seems to work for Snell.
I would have loved the Yankees to kick the tires on Crochet, but they didn’t have the expendable prospect capital to make it realistic.
Joemo
The Red Sox traded their 4,5th best prospects for a glorified reliever. 25th and 54th overall prospects for a glorified reliever with an attitude issue.
Embarrassing
Breslow, like Bloom, is outclassed as a head of baseball operations.
Who is going to catch for the Sox?
We have no idea what Montgomery will be like. And everyone was singing the Sox praises for taking him because he was such a value pick! How could he drop so low!
Mynameisnoname
Prospects are a crap shoot. Only 30% of top 100 prospects end up being non-busts and actualized WAR drops from an avg of
3.5 for the top 3 to just under 2 for 4-25. Outside the top 25 the vast majority fail to be major league regulars.
This is from a slightly date article released in 2012 analyzing the previous 14 years of top 100 prospects results.
Joemo
Correct, prospects are a crap shoot. So trading Montgomery, Wikleman (whose stock is massively down) and Meidroth (who is essentially a utility guy, and the Sox have a few of those) fine. All make sense.
But what’s the plan for catcher? Wong and…. ?
I will be very surprised if Crochet makes 30+ starts each year and puts up good results throughout.
Mynameisnoname
All fair and accounted for points. Im not arguing the Sox didn’t give to get. Teel seems to be a two way C, but Crochet was filthy last year and will cost relative pennies for his elite metrics over two seasons.
You kept Anthony, Campbell and Mayer while securing a modern day ace- 160 IP is yesterdays’ 200 IP. He’s a risk but the Sox lost leverage when missing out on big arms and announcing Burnes was getting out of their comfort zone.
medic87
McCann
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Joe-Maybe Campusano comes over in a Cease trade? It’d leave the Padres with no proven catchers, but I’m sure Preller can figure that out through other deals.
Joemo
Ron – maybe Breslow will give up Mayer and Anthony for Cease and Campusano.
I had so much faith in Breslow when he was hired and boy he has done everything to lose it. Not that that matters to him. And honestly? I hope I’m wrong
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
If Anthony is made available, I’d do that in a heartbeat. I highly doubt he will be/is though..
Joemo
If he is, I’ll be jumping off the nearest bridge.
Luckily it’s not too high but still.
Sad.Sox 3
Based on the haul the White Sox got in this trade, and the mix in the Soto trade last year, the Padres are probably looking at 3 players, perhaps one with mlb experience, two prospects. Probably not a top 3 prospect from the organization, but one in the top 10 and a second that is in the top 20.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Red Sox fans are gonna love him. Ace and not much wear on the arm as Tennessee didn’t tax him much either. He’s only getting started. Expect great things for him and the Sox. Uh, while you’re watching anyone want a Garrett- autographed 312 cap? Hasn’t been worn, though my cat was sleeping in it
Joemo
Theo – not much wear on his arm and he already had TJ. That’s not exactly inspiring confidence in his long term ability to start baseball games.
Dumpster Divin Theo
You’re not wrong joeemo to be concerned,
but possibly the tj surgery is a godsend and he pitches into his late 30s. He could also excel as a multi inning specialist if health problems persist a la Hader
nrd1138
Crochet was on an innings limit with a horrific team.. Try to go to work and do a great job when your company sucks.
He’ll be fine, and the Red Sox did not give up anything when you consider how good of a judge of position players the White Sox typically are.
Joemo
Nrd – if you know you’re getting traded from a bad team, wouldn’t you be motivated to do well so you go to the best possible landing spot? For the average Joe working your 9-5 job I completely agree.
I’m just hung up on Teel being included. The Sox do not have catching prospect depth, and they don’t have some stud in the majors either.
Aiden Awe
Quero and Lee are catchers, having 2 good catchers is a fine problem.
nrd1138
Crochet also did do well, or did you not see his first half and AS appearance? The second half of the season the Sox imposed the 4 inning limit and you are not going to be very impressive on a 4 inning pitch limit (not pitch count mind you, inning limit, meaning he could throw 10 pitches in the four innings and be pulled)
As for the return, including Teel, I dunno. I did not hear much fawning from the MLB reporter talking on a local Chicago Sports show, sounds like really all of the guys included for Crochet are rough prospects in one way or another. The Sox have Quero, but his catcher skills are lacking right now, and Lee, well Lee is Ok for this club, but not for when they are competing again.
Joemo
Nrd – wouldn’t an ace pitcher who throws less innings be more effective, not less?
If you want out and told Chris Sale, hey bud you’re going 4 IP today, he’s going to be more effective not less.
The hardest part about being a SP is going depe in games and still being effective. If they can’t, they can transition to a reliever who throws less innings and can be effective in those shorter outings.
Aiden Awe
Quero is a bat first catcher like Teel(who could also play corner OF) but Lee is under control til 2029 or 2030 and is a defense first catcher.
arty! Believes Jevon Belcher Quit on the Chiefs
Paging Aj Preller
Free agency off season has begun
Paging Aj Preller
Dumpster Divin Theo
Emergency emergency
Longtimecoming
I’d say this is proof that AJ is not trading Salas. Seems like the type of situation where Sox were targeting top C prospects and I’m sure AJ and Sox were at least talking about it – maybe going back to trade deadline.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Got a feeling he’s got a couple of trades coming in the next day or two. Seems to be a lot of smoke around a Cease deal.
Dumpster Divin Theo
And where there’s smoke there’s….
Dumpster Divin Theo
A lot of stoners
Sad.Sox 3
DFA’ing Valdez means more trades to come, he is a serviceable enough player
jmi1950
Preller doesn’t have time right now — he is too busy trying to find a better way to fake medical files.
10centBeerNight
Excellent. Rest of AL – step the F up.
PTkirk
Burnes is a Giant??
Wagner>Cobb
Wonder if this is the only addition to the rotation, or if they’ll bring in another?
1. Crochet
2. Houck
3. Crawford
4. Bello
5. Criswell
This is very solid, especially if GC repeats last year’s performance with more innings.
letitbelowenstein
Wagner, Criswell is the oddball in that rotation. I’d place Fitts or Priester ahead of him. And so far, Bello hasn’t shown me anything beyond being a so-so #4 or #5. Same with Kutter.. They could still use Flaherty or even Lorenzen.
Occams_hairbrush
It’s December 11.
They’re obviously not done.
sawynick27
Giolito
Wagner>Cobb
forgot about him
Sad.Sox 3
See ya later Criswell, take Mayer with you and tell Dylan Cease where Logan is!!!!!!
Prophet of the SL
1. Crochet
2. Houck
3. Giolitto
4. Bello
5. Crawford
6) Priester, Dobbins, Fitts
Go ahead, sign Flaherty and trade Abreu, Crawford, and Yoshida….sign Hernandez and trade for Arenado.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Prophet-The Padres would take Abreu, Yoshida, Whitlock, and cash in a Cease deal in a second. We’d even throw in 2 time all star Jake Cronenworth.
Deal?
Pads Fans
Whitlock will be coming back from TJ mid-season and Yoshida is strictly a DH. That would be a hard no from Padres even if the Red Sox paid most or nearly all of Yoshida’s deal.
Adding the fairly paid Cronenworth would be a serious F No! .
From the looks of things Preller asked for Abreu, Mayer, Fitts, and Gonzalez who was sent to the White Sox in the Crochet trade in return for Cease. He obviously feels Cease is far more valuable than you do. Imagine that.
Joemo
Which one of these starters are you confident in putting 30+ starts of quality baseball over the course of a full season.
Houck maybe, and that’s it. Crochet had an abysmal 2nd half throwing 3 innings per game.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
Houck’s second half wasn’t much better. The rotation pieces with the highest upside also all hit walls as far as IP goes last year, with each reaching career highs in IP. How many more quality innings will the Sox get from them this year?
sckoul
No Mayer and no Anthony. ♂️ white Sox get another young pitcher. Smh ♂️ Will we ever get hitters?
Pads Fans
They got two. Teel can flat out hit and plays good defense. It will allow them to move the poor defensive Quero to 1B where he belongs. Meidroth hit .293 in AAA Worchester. What he doesn’t do is hit for power. He is really more of a 2B than a 3B or SS where he played the last 2 season in the minors.
MeowMeow
Nooo, I was excited for the Kyle Teel era behind the plate. But I suppose if Connor Wong keeps up his 2024 pace this won’t sting quite as much.
Luis_Fazenda
They’ll probably get a couple of years from him until he has to go under the knife again.
Wire to wire 2024
Fa in two years anyways
just_thinkin
Fleeced.
PTkirk
That’s actually a haul for the sox. Good for them
soxshortstop
Damn,, should’ve kept Teel – trade Franklin Arias, Yoeilin Cespedes, and Miguel Bleis
letitbelowenstein
Teel AND Montgomery? Red Sox are getting ripped off.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
From Ken Rosenthal
“White Sox acquiring Garrett Crochet from Red Sox for catcher Kyle Teel, outfielder Braden Montgomery, infielder Chase Meidroth and right-hander Wikelman Gonzalez, sources tell @TheAthletic. First: @byJulianMack”
This is as funny as Jon Heyman and his Arson Judge mishap. Lmao
Not sure if links from Twitter are allowed
YourDreamGM
Arson >
rhandome
The White Sox have two years of control over an absolute ace SP. This had better be a massive prospect haul or they are really dumb
soxshortstop
FLEEEEEEEECED……for a nobody lefty that had one decent year and died in the second half of last year….FARM drastically sent backwards. I could run this better than these guys
rhandome
lol, a nobody?? Jesus, watch some Crochet highlights or something. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
soxshortstop
Honestly where do you losers come from. Converted reliever that died off in 2nd half with only 2 years control for a 4,5,25,etc.
nrd1138
On a mandated innings limit with a bad team..
Acoss1331
These look like good prospects, was Marcelo Mayer off the table for Breslow?
Red Sox fans, any input on these prospects, I am ignorant and only know of Mayer.
Poolhalljunkies
Montgomery was thier 1st round pick in 2023..might have gone top 5 without an ankle injury teel is legit
YourDreamGM
I’d take both over Mayer. Sox won’t spend $ so I think these 2 have more ceiling. Teel Mayer are close in value imo even though everyone I ever seen has Mayer significantly higher. Montgomery is below them but swing fences. Nah better go safe Mayer. Campbell is the one you would want.
Prophet of the SL
Campbell, Mayer, and Anthony are still with the Sox…they still have high upside Bleis…and Fister/Priester/Dobbins in AAA, useful 7-10 SPs to get through the season.
letitbelowenstein
Teel won’t necessarily be as good as Adley, but he has the potential of being a top-5 catcher. This trade is bad for Boston. If anything they should have gotten a second player in the deal.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Theyve all got skills apparently
Bruin1012
Montgomery is a top 100 prospect in baseball Teel is a top 25 prospect. Montgomery hasn’t played in professional ball yet and I haven’t seen him play so can’t comment.
The other two guys Meidroth is an undersized utility type guy who has one of the best eyes in the minor leagues. Gonzalez is pitcher that has a hard time throwing strikes at times but pitched really well in the 2nd half and his stuff is really good. Teel is going to be a big league catcher he’s athletic and hits a lot of line drives he’s likely a high average hitting catcher.
nrd1138
The problem is the White Sox have to help develop these guys, so basically they have a great chance of being 4A players (like most of the White Sox position players in the minors).
energel
Massive overpay
Big Hurt
Overpay? Why? You get a top line starter for 2 maybes and 2 lottery picks? It’s a smart move by the Red Sox and they’ll be happy with him – he’s a stud.
energel
146 Innings in 32 starts?
I know those innings will be up, but still he has almost full experience as a 5, 6 , 7 inning starter. and he struggled down the stretch of the year.
and giving up a top catching prospect teel when your thin on MLB catching and catching prospects. idk man. I like crochet on the red sox, in my opinion, white sox fleeced the red sox.
Idk after a year maybe crochet does insanely good wrong then you can make fun of me and stuff, but I dont think hes got that starter expeience yet.
nrd1138
How many good pitchers struggle on bad teams? Never mind the innings limit each game after the AS break (when most of the issues started). Its not like they had to pull him out of games due to bad performance. Be an MLB starting pitcher and be told you have like 70 pitchers to produce and they are yanking you regardless of how well you are pitching….
Anything is possible but he looks more like at least a #2 rotation guy than a bust.
Plus its not like the White Sox returns are guaranteed to do anything given the White Sox track record for developing position players.
Led Hoyer
Nobody better place to trade guys and know they won’t haunt you.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Beats a massive Overbay
Degaz
Wow the Red Sox gave up a ton…
energel
Thats what im saying…….
cgallant
Steep price to pay. I was hoping to get Luis Robert in there as well. Maybe take on half of the Bennintendi contract to offset some prospects going back.
bwmiller79
Nice add ons in Chase Meidroth and Wikelman Gonzalez, certainly have to believe that Teel and Montgomery were the centerpieces of the deal but Meidroth has put up some good numbers in MiLB and Gonzalez has pitched in the bigs if memory serves me correctly, he has some potential as the fourth prospect added to the deal. Like adding a catching prospects, like the timeline on Montgomery, he should start for the Sox in ’26 or ’27.
Good trade, as a Sox fan I’m happy with the return.
bwmiller79
Wrong about Gonzalez, no MLB service time, my memory fails me again, blast it! But looks to be an alright prospect, he and Shane Smith can slot into our Bullpen in ’25.
Love the trade for the ChiSox. Good luck to Crochet in Boston.
NashvilleJeff
@cgallant: Would have been an awful deal for the Chisox if they diluted the return on Crochet by adding Benintendi’s contract to the deal.
bwmiller79
Benintendi should bring a prospect or two back, and Robert should bring a good prospect too. I like Robert as a talent and a player but am hoping they trade him and tear it all the way down.
I’m still on the fence about Vaughn.
HopefulTwinsFan
Time for him to Crochet a pair of red socks.
Patriot12992
I chuckled
Dustyslambchops23
Boston panicking after the Jays cornered the market on all glove middle infielders
Old York
Trading a highly regarded catching prospect, alongside multiple promising young players like Braden Montgomery, Chase Meidroth, and Wikelman Gonzalez, for Crochet—a reliever with an injury history and limited experience as a starter—raises serious questions about the long-term strategic planning of the Red Sox.
Poolhalljunkies
What serious questions does it raise specifically?
Old York
@Poolhalljunkies
It raises big concerns about the Red Sox’s long-term strategy. Trading away a top catching prospect like Kyle Teel, plus promising players like Montgomery and Gonzalez, for Crochet—a reliever with an injury history and no proven track record as a starter—feels like an unnecessary gamble. It risks weakening the farm system and ignoring the importance of durability and positional depth, especially in such a competitive division.
BITA
Crochet isn’t a reliever. He could legitimately be the best starter in baseball over the next 2 years. I think it’s an overpay by the Red Sox but still Crochet could be terrific.
Old York
@BITA
Crochet has potential, but calling him the “best starter in baseball over the next two years” is a massive leap, considering his limited track record as a starter and his past injury concerns. Even if his ceiling is high, the Red Sox are giving up significant future assets in this deal—Teel, Montgomery, and others—for what remains a gamble. Potential alone doesn’t guarantee success, especially in a demanding role like starting pitching. It’s still an overpay, no matter how good Crochet might be.
Dustyslambchops23
So Crochet is a gamble but the prospects are not?
I love how you form opinions, you pick the most negative view point possible first and then just hope you can piece together enough fluff to make it seem informed. lol
BITA
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he could be the best pitcher in baseball over the next 2 years.
I agree the Red Sox gave up too much. But calling him a reliever is silly.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
All of those ‘significant future assets’ are inherently a gamble as well.
NashvilleJeff
@Old York: “Potential alone doesn’t guarantee success.” So what are prospects if not unrealized potential?
Dustyslambchops23
That reliever with an injury history is 25 and struck out 200+ batters last year
Very weak analysis Old York.
Old York
@Dustyslambchops23
Even elite relievers or unproven starters come with risk, and overpaying with future assets for a gamble is where the criticism lies.
Very weak analysis Dustyslambchops23
Dustyslambchops23
Ah yes, zero gamble from unproven prospects.
The Red Sox traded sure things for a gamble.
I don’t get why you love baseball so much when you can even scrape to the bottom of basic understanding of everything.
It would be like me being on rocketsciencerumors.com making comments to spacex engineers about why they are wrong
Old York
@Dustyslambchops23
I’m a rocket scientist and a brain surgeon as a part time gig. Time are tough and sometimes one needs a second job.
What about you?
ClevelandSteelEngines
you sound like cashman hoarding his precious prospects. White Sox were giving away Crochet for nothing.
Dustyslambchops23
Yah I always love this type of analysis.
All the prospects traded will reach their highs and the player with recent MLB success will get the yips and retire.
Old York
@ClevelandSteelEngines
Giving away Crochet for “nothing” isn’t accurate when the White Sox are receiving Kyle Teel, one of the top catching prospects in baseball, along with three other high-upside players. It’s not about hoarding prospects—it’s about not mortgaging the future for a player who, despite his talent, comes with risk. If Crochet doesn’t meet the lofty expectations, the Red Sox lose out on years of team control and potential impact from the prospects they’re trading away. Smart teams balance the win-now mentality with long-term sustainability, and this deal feels heavily tilted in the short-term gamble direction.
ClevelandSteelEngines
I mistyped *were* it should’ve been “weren’t” as in the White Sox weren’t giving Crochet away for nothing.
duffys cliff
Massive haul for the White Sox, hate to see Teel and Montgomery go. But Crochet is a stud. Him and Houck at the top of the rotation with a veteran arm (preferably Burnes, but maybe Flaherty or Manaea?) could be a hell of a rotation. If Bello continues to trend the right way, and Crawford stops giving up home runs, I like that rotation.
King Floch
Very happy the O’s didn’t beat that offer.
Good for the White Sox though, seems like a really great haul for 2 years of a guy with some pretty major question marks.
BITA
Well as long as the Orioles end up doing something sure be happy. But the top of the rotation arms are flying off the shelf. The Orioles need to do something.
King Floch
We spent almost $9 million on a backup catcher and over $16 million on a part-time OF just the other day, so there is absolutely no good reason to think Elias and Rubenstein won’t address the need for another good SP for the rotation in some way before the offseason is over.
BITA
Oh I think the Orioles will get someone. Just not sure it’s going to be someone good.
King Floch
Whoever it is probably won’t be on the same level as Burnes (very few are, after all), but I am absolutely confident that it will be someone who clearly qualifies as “good.”
BITA
Burnes I assume isn’t coming back.
Flaherty probably won’t be signing with the Orioles.
Who’s left after that?
King Floch
For just a couple of examples, Dylan Cease, Luis Castillo, and Framber Valdez are all reportedly available on the trade market and will all likely cost less than Crochet cost Boston (Cease and Valdez because they are 1 year rentals and Castillo because of his contract and age).
BITA
I highly doubt Cease is traded.
Same with Valdez.
Castillo is expensive I don’t think the Orioles want to spend that much.
We will see. Jesus Luzardo is looking pretty good right now.
King Floch
If the previous reporting about the Orioles being actively involved in Burnes’ market is true, even only to a moderate degree, then I don’t see why Castillo’s contract would be a problem for us since he’s owed much less than even the most bearish predictions for Burnes’ free agent contract.
Also, Burnes was reported to be unavailable for almost all of last offseason, then he got traded, so saying Cease and Valdez won’t be traded doesn’t really carry much weight to me.
Either way, you wanted examples of what good SPs might still be out there after Burnes, so I gave you 3 solid examples, and there are undoubtedly other guys available that have not been reported yet. Missing out on Crochet is no big deal, especially at the cost Boston paid for him.
BITA
The Padres and Astros are in win now mode
Why would they trade those guys? Makes no sense.
Orioles really need a lefty starter. Snell, Fried and Crochet were the guys and they are all gone.
At least you still got Mayo. He has no place to play but hey he’s still around.
King Floch
Because they are both reportedly facing serious payroll crunches and those guys are expensive and could bring back good, cheap, controllable young talent.
Also, I have explained, in detail, why Mayo isn’t blocked in Baltimore to you repeatedly. I’m not doing it for a 7th or 8th time.
BITA
If the Padres and Astros want to cut payroll they could sell off a ton of guys. But then they wouldn’t be able to contend.
It’s not just that Mayo is blocked it’s that he’s completely unproven. If he ends up being a bust that will cost the Orioles wins in the process.
King Floch
Sure, just like everybody saying the Brewers couldn’t possibly contend last year after they traded Burnes. Oh, wait…
Also, I really love the attempt at a goalpost move about Mayo. First we had to trade him because he’s blocked (he isn’t), now we have to trade him because he might end up a bust (this applies to literally every single prospect, not just Mayo). Good stuff.
BITA
The Brewers weren’t really trying to contend it just happened anyways.
Win now teams trade prospects they don’t let them learn on the job and hope.
King Floch
This is simply untrue, but when has that ever stopped you before?
Bird4Life
I could have sworn they traded away Soto in his contract year (and netted them cease) and then were even better the following year. There are major league for major league trades. Why can’t they do that again and free up payroll?
whyhayzee
My guess is that they’re letting Teel go because they don’t believe in him as a catcher. They have faith in Wong, apparently. Montgomery looks decent but they have outfielders. This is good for both teams. Kudos to Chisox for getting decent value back for a major trade chip. Red Sox? Make more moves! They just got better but there are more needs to fill.
ClevelandSteelEngines
not sure if it ‘lost faith’ as a catcher but he had a lot more buzz about him than was probably the reality.
JoeBrady
Fair statement. He had 29 Ks in 102 AAA ABs. He had some walks with that, but that’s 171 per 600 ABs, and maybe 190+ in the pros. He’s certainly not a lock.
Big Hurt
Excellent job by the Orioles and the genius Mike Elias. As a White Sox fan I’m happy with the trade, but now that the Os have passed on Cease and Crochet in the hopes that Norfolk wins the AAA crown this year, I think it’s time to question what Elias’ strategy actually is? I mean, trading strong prospects for Trevor Rogers can’t really be all he’s planning to do, right?
King Floch
Why are you ignoring all of his good trades (Burnes, Eflin, Bradish, Cano, Dominguez, etc.) and focusing on one that still has 2 years before it can be fully declared a failure?
Big Hurt
Because he has been so concerned with conserving the farm system (valiant in and of itself) that he’s forgotten that the window will close MUCH more quickly than you think. He has done an amazing job in the draft, and I like the Eflin and Burnes trades (although Burnes trade does nothing for this year), but overall the goal is to build a playoff winner, and unless they go all in on a starter like Crochet (or one of the big money free agents) I believe they are destined to win 90 games and lose in the playoffs.
King Floch
He’s traded a ton of good prospects for MLB help in the last year or so, but he clearly does not intend to trade our elite prospects, (Holliday, Mayo, Basallo, etc.) and as a smaller market team that will never be able to beat out the Yankees/Mets/Dodgers for the Juan Soto’s and Shohei Ohtani’s of the world in free agency, that is probably the correct strategy, even with the new ownership group ramping up payroll significantly.
Big Hurt
I hear you, I guess I think that the smaller market piece means you SHOULD trade from your org depth to fill the gaps, since you can’t do it in free agency. Mayo + Kjerstad gets Crochet imho, and while that would hurt your staff come playoffs would be Rodriguez, Crochet and Bradish. Now you have a chance to actually win a playoff series. Re-sign Santander and play Mountcastle – bam, strong off-season. Who cares about 2026 if you win the WS in 2025?
King Floch
It doesn’t mean that though, it means the exact opposite, that trading 6 years each of 2 potential stars like Mayo and Kjerstad (plus probably at least 1 other decent piece) for 2 years of a pitcher with some pretty major question marks is terrible for your organization’s long-term health. It’s something that major market teams like Boston can do because they can just buy big time free agents every offseason to fill any holes their now-emptier farm can’t fill, while teams like the Orioles can’t really do that.
I would have actually been pretty livid if Elias had traded Mayo and Kjerstad for Crochet.
Big Hurt
Mayo and Kjerstad are could bes at a position of depth, whereas Crochet is a proven at a position of need. That’s the part I think you’re missing.
King Floch
Saying Crochet is “proven” is a bit of a stretch, man. He has exactly 1 good year as a starter and he very clearly ran out of gas in the second half.
And I’m not dogmatically opposed to trading a Mayo or Basallo level prospect for the right guy, I just don’t think Crochet just was the right guy.
Big Hurt
That’s an insane take imo. He costs 2.9m this year and clearly pitched at an ace level last year, if reduced by injury concerns. I mean, if he had 4 years at this level and still had 2 years control at a total of $12M you couldn’t get him even if you threw in Holiday. Of course there is some risk, but his upside is so incredibly hight that you’d have to pay for it. Anyway, good chat man.
King Floch
I would argue that saying he is a proven ace after one good year where he faded hard in the second half is the “insane take” here.
Either way, I am glad that the ChiSox got a nice haul for him but I am also glad that it wasn’t the Orioles providing said haul. Hopefully this helps bring better times to the South Side, and soon.
Prophet of the SL
For the Sox….Teel hurts…but Montgomery and Meidroth are redundant, and W. Gonzalez is a swingman at best. Good trade for the Chisox…they 12 years of Montgomery and Teel for two years of Crochet.
Sox will likely sign, overpay, Burnes and Hernandez….maybe they trade, take on salary of Arenado….eat half of Yashida salary and send him to OAK, Pitts of SEA.
Poolhalljunkies
Well good for them they just put the big boy pants back on cant wait to see what comes next
kwolf68
Great trade for both teams.
Red Sox won’t miss those guys, other than maybe Teel. But you also get a potential ACE, as long as healthy
Teel and Meidroth are ready to go. Meidroth has incredible on base skills, excellent hitter, not overly powerful or speedy but should help out. Teel is legit and those two players immediately slot into the White Sox lineup.
Gonzalez is a bit of a question mark, in the least he should be a high leverage reliever with the possibility to start, depending on how that development goes he has excellent upside.
And upside is what Montgomery is. He could turn out to be the best of the bunch, but being in low A obviously they have to wait.
White Sox needed a mix of quality and quantity and I think they got exactly that. Boston did trade 2 of their 5 best prospects, but they hung onto their top 2 prospects at least. As much potential as these guys have Boston traded away they won’t miss any of them (Teel maybe the exception) and pick up one of the most talented lefty starters in the sport.
Great baseball trade.
Lalo says show me
I agree. Red sox get a potential ace for dirt cheap financially for 2 years. They gave up solid talent, with the catcher being the headline. Gave up their 4th, 5th, 11th, and 14th best from their farm.
I think it’s a fair price for a cost controlled potential #1 starting pitcher
johncoltrane
Teel & braden?! Huge trade for whitesox!!
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Well Schiste
The_Porcupine
Risky. Hard to trust a guy with one good half season as a starter. Especially with his injury history. Im glad a team with a lesser farm system didnt take that risk.
Poolhalljunkies
I think as soon as fried sign the crochet price went up
Acoss1331
I think the Cubs gained a little bit of leverage as well with potential Bellinger trade partners. But yes, Fried coming off the board helped the White Sox, and judging by input from those that know these prospects, it was a good return too.
30 Parks
Should have kept Teel – mistake. Sox are too cheap to sign a SP.
Sagacity
Breslow should be fired for proposing this over pay. WOW. it’s not as much money as over paying Devers but this one is off the charts for giving up talent. I’m thinking back to deals like Hanley Ramirez and Bagwell.
Teel is a mistake. Meidroth is a mistake. He’s so much better than Mayer so Breslow is being spanked with his pants down on this trade!!! WOW. Right when you think they can’t top recent events for stupidity, they do!!
Poolhalljunkies
Meidroth “so much” better Mayer? Im going to guess and assume you havnt watched them both play all that much?..that assessment is just a terrible one
Sagacity
Poolhalljunkies = Wow another guy who thinks his eyes over rule the performance data. Or maybe this is Bruin1012’s second user name!!!
While Meidroth’s best defensive position is 2B which makes him tough competition for Grissom, he blows Mayer away defensively but who doesn’t other than Devers?
Offensively, Mayer has more power but isn’t a power hitter. Mayer steals a few more bases but is not a speedster. Meidroth is simply a more consistent hitter with an average 10 points higher but he’s got a OBP that is 97 points higher.but Mayer has the higher ISO so when combined Meidroth edges out Mayer at OPS by 5 points. Couple that with his far superior defense and Meidroth is the prospect that has performed much better so far in the minors.
But hey, if you’ve sat in the stands and watched a few games, I’m sure you must be right and we should ignore the facts.
Meidroth = AAA 122 games .295/.437/.401/.838 13 SBs
Mayer – AAA – NO GAMES due to injury
Meidroth – AA – 91 games .255/.386/.375/.762 9 SBs
Mayer – AA – 120 games .265/328/.435/.763 17 SBs
Meidroth – A+ – 20 games .338/.495/.460/.954 4 SBs
Mayer – A+ 60 games .280/.371/.494/865 6 SBs
Meidroth is 17 months older and has the following fielding stats
2B – Fielding % .996 on 227 chances (1 error)
3B – Fielding % .957 on 211 chances (9 errors)
SS – Fielding % .963 on 234 chances (9 errors)
Mayer’s defense
2B – Fielding % .875 on only 8 chances (1 error)
SS – Fielding % .949 on 824 chances (42 errors)
No question who is the far superior fielder.
Bruin1012
Since you brought my name into it I will second it Pool it’s a ridiculous reach that’s consistently made by KD17 when all he looks at is stats on a page. I’m willing to bet he’s never watched either player but based on a few numbers he’s willing to say he’s the much better player. Mayer is the much better prospect except in KD’s world. If you don’t want me to comment and let you know how ridiculous you are I’m in a mood based on this trade and I’m ready to go let’s have fun with your ridiculous comments. Oh and by the Jake Burger is probably as bad defensively as Devers he’s a terrible defensive third baseman not an upgrade defensively and not offensively.
acell10
in fairness you’re the last person who should be talking about second user names when you’re basically on your fifth one.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – Right you are on Burger! And even the analytics support it. Over the past 3 years Burger has one negative DRS per 108 innings while Devers has one per 133 innings.
Looking at the chart, there’s a whole bunch of guys far worse defensively at 3B than Devers.
Bohm has 3 more negative DRS despite 1,154 fewer innings than Devers.
JD Davis, Franco, Escobar all much worse than Devers.
And BTW only Chapman and Riley have more innings than Devers.
Poolhalljunkies
Sag So ..its your opinion vs every single scouting report and respected prospect rankings on these players and are blind? .if you turn out to be correct you should be working for an mlb scouting department..you my friend are wasting talent..but i suspect you are wrong
Sagacity
Pooljunkie – You need to read more carefully. The data shows what I stated. That doesn’t make it my opinion. I simply provide facts because opinions are biased.
FYI… I am retired and what makes you think that wasn’t part of my career? Just remember, I present the facts and explain what they mean based on what has actually happened. I do have players that I like based on things other than facts but I prefer to just state the facts and show why opinions don’t support the facts. In Mayer’s case, he was picked fourth prior to a quality player like Colton Cowser who has already accomplished so much. That to me indicates an error was made on Bloom’s part. Yes, the rating services laud him since he was a fourth pick and because the Boston Marketing department pushes him to the media but his numbers don’t support the hype. Is my opinion stated in those sentences? No except for the fact that my opinion is the facts support Meinroth better than Mayer SO FAR in their careers.
People get bent out of shape when I write things like that but they can go to the same records and see that what I am stating is the truth, not an opinion.
Pads Fans
Saga/Samuel,
That may be the worst take I have ever seen from you in a long list of bad takes.
Mayer = SS with 55/60 FV on defense and a 60 plus arm
Meidroth = 2B with 45FV on defense and 45 arm.
45 = below average
Take your fielding % stats and go back to the 1920s.
Poolhalljunkies
Pads fan.. nice comment Lol yea i stopped bothering to reply once i read that nonsense.
Pads Fans
FPG, by DRS only Alec Bohm has been worse at 3B over the last 3 seasons. -27 DRS to -24 DRS for Devers.
Statcasts new Fielding Run Value or FRV flips them.
Devers range, as measured by OAA, is the worst in baseball.
Either way Devers is awful on defense and should be a DH.
Burger has far fewer innings at 3B, but his -17 DRS is woefully bad too. .
Pads Fans
Saga, none of what you posted about defense was data. Fielding % is based on opinion. Someone gave their opinion about what should or should not have been caught.
What is not opinion is the actual data. Mayer runs faster, has more range, throws harder, and hits with more exit velocity and barrels up the ball more often. None of those are opinion.
They do however feed the opinion of scouts that Meidroth is a 45 FV prospect while Mayer is a 60 FV prospect.
acell10
KD: I don’t like this trade either but saying Meidroth is better than Mayer is ridiculous.
Fever Pitch Guy
Sag – Great post!! And don’t forget Monty, who is basically 1-A in the deal.
This was a package you give up for Skubal, not for an often-injured unproven pitcher with “potential”.
Sagacity
Fever Pitch Guy – The fact that ownership wanted to get a “cheap” guy with some talent rather than bidding for a guy like Burnes who they refuse to outspend for over other big market teams fits the current mentality of the ownership.
Lowering the payroll and increasing team profits at the expense of wins should be ownership’s mantra. It’s sad that it’s evolved to where we are today.
The whole thing is a catch 22. You can’t get a good GM if you can’t spend money over other big market teams so you pick below standard low cost GMs and the team reflects it. It’s like hiring a manager with no experience at managing but an excellent cheater then hanging on to him because he’s Dominican and there is a huge Dominican population in Boston. Not a good reason to hire the guy especially with the cheating but it does explain why Mookie wasn’t worth $420 Million and Soto was worth $700 Million. One player is black and the other is Dominican. I’m expecting the next GM to be Dominican because that seems to be the only thing that matters at this point. Winning is secondary to profits and diversity means Dominican.
It’s going to be hard to win in the future with all these parameters around the decision making for the Red Sox. I truly believe I’ve seen my last ring. I sure hope my kids and grand kids get to see one in the future.
Lilscrappy
Crochet was afraid to pitch in the playoffs lol. He thought it might “interfere with his contract.” Ergo, he feared failure and shrunk back from the big stage as a result.
At least he won’t have to worry about pitching in the playoffs in Boston, since they’re already
the third-best team in their own division
Lilscrappy
Insecurity and turning away from the big moment is gonna play GREAT in Boston, especially with the huge haul they gave up to get him! Lolol.
Meanwhile the Jays are having a great offseason and may be soon to pass them. Time to press the panic button lol
El Kabong
Insecurity? I have no problem with what Crochet said. He was a young pitcher recovering from a serious injury who pitched a significant number of innings for the worst team in baseball. It’s no fear of failure. It’s sending a realistic message about his possible availability later on.
By the way, Crochet is a professional athlete pursuing a dream he worked hard at to achieve. If that’s fear of failure, what does it say about ordinary folks whose only “dream” was working for the man.
El Kabong
*Question mark
Lilscrappy
Why was he even thinking about things unraveling in the playoffs though, and why be concerned about overuse injury affecting FA when FA is still 2 years away? Even if he did get hurt, he would have more than enough time to recover.
No doubt Crochet has worked hard, but that doesn’t exempt him (nor does his occupation) from the highways and byways of the human psyche. Going into a big moment fearful about it going badly generally begets it actually going badly. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fear of failure begets failure, fear of injury begets injury (check out AJ Burnett’s interesting statements on this post-retirement). Confidence and expecting to succeed begets success. This is all true whether someone works for The Man or MLB.
El Kabong
It’s not fear of failure. It’s trying to stick to the innings limit that was planned in the first place. As it turned out, his usage was rolled back after the deadline. Another injury on top of the previous one could devastate his career, which is why he embarked on this journey in the first place. He was thinking about his future. If he doesn’t look after himself, who will?
Lilscrappy
To further clarify, this is not to say that his apparent fearfulness and hesitancy makes it impossible for him to have success in a big moment, just that Boston might not be the best market for someone with that mental makeup. He’d have been better off in Baltimore or SD, somewhere where fans are more patient and forgiving.
Lilscrappy
So he was afraid of getting injured. Fear activates the amygdala portion of the brain, which causes inflammation and muscle stiffness and makes injury far likelier. It’s just science.
Again, it doesn’t mean he CANT have success, but his decision was made in fear, and like it or not, it does tell us something about his mental makeup. Between that and his limited sample size as a starter, I think there are a good amount of red flags here and bearing that in mind Boston surrendered way too much in talent. If I’m the GM, especially of a proud franchise like Boston with a recent streak of underachievement, I look for the guy who craves the big moment and feels confident in his ability to rise up to meet it. JMHO
all in the suit that you wear
Last year Crochet pitched 146 innings after never having pitched over 100 before. So, his innings were way up and I think the more he pitched, the higher the risk of injury. So, he wanted an extension if he was going to pitch further and take the risk.
Lilscrappy
That’s my point. A risk-averse and hesitant personality doesn’t usually play well in places like Boston. I’m old enough to remember Boston sports fans ridiculing LaDainian Tomlinson for taking himself out of a playoff game. How you think they’re gonna react when it’s one of their own players doing it? I understand what his logic was in making the fear-based decision, and that his priority is his payday 2 years down the line, but the RS’ priority is to get into the playoffs and win once there. So that’s a potential clash.
Also, since his FA is still 2 years away and presumably he will also reach a high in IP in 2025 if healthy, who’s to say this situation won’t play itself out all over again, except this time with a playoff spot on the line? The Red Sox aren’t good enough to win the division handily. If it’s a close race down the stretch and he benches himself again bc he’s afraid of getting hurt, and then they miss out on the playoffs because their best starter can’t pitch, he’s gonna be run out of town (again, Boston is not Baltimore or StL) and it’s gonna affect his contract anyway. This isn’t a winning situation for him or Boston imo. The White Sox are the clear winners here.
all in the suit that you wear
Lilscrappy: Let’s look at Crochet’s innings pitched by year:
2020: 9.1 IP
2021: 54.1 IP
2022: 0 IP
2023: 25 IP
2024: 146 IP
I think Crochet took a risk in 2024 by ramping his innings WAY higher than he had ever pitched before. I can see why he he started to worry about injury in 2024. He was in uncharted territory for him. So, I find it hard to say he is risk averse or has an attitude problem at this point in time.
Lilscrappy
I don’t think he has an attitude problem either, but I do think he is clearly fearful about getting hurt, and this is very likely to be an issue again next year since the Red Sox rotation, while by no means bad, is still very questionable. In a competitive division, they need him to be the man, and it’s going to cause issues if he asks out of stretch run starts because he’s concerned about his workload and his contract. I would also note that NBA players are regularly pilloried for doing exactly what Crochet did, so I’m not sure why people find it less of an issue in baseball.
Also worth mentioning that Crochet could have pitched out of the BP in the playoffs and only thrown maybe an extra 10 innings. He also could have expressed his concerns earlier in the season, been traded to a contender earlier, and let his new team manage his workload in a way that allowed for impactful innings in big moments. Since he did none of those, I think it’s fair to wonder if perhaps he isn’t a little soft.
The RS can offset this potential hurdle by also signing Burnes, and maybe they still will. Personally I would have made Burnes my priority since he only costs $, has more than one season of effective starting pitching, and doesn’t have an innings limit.
JoeBrady
he feared failure and shrunk back from the big stage as a result.
============================
Shrunk back? Even after his innings limit, he was still among the best in BB with a 68/13 K/W, and had a ridiculous 47/3 K/W in his final 27.2.
Mikenmn
As a Yankees fan who can moan and groan with the best of them….I like to see other team’s fans do it as well. OMG what an overpay–just one of our prospects should have been more than enough….OMG, the guys we gave up are stiffs, and Cooperstown might as well start building the Crochet Wing right now. I was coming off my Max sugar high-angst-fest, so
Maybe….hear me out…..it’s a decent deal for both sides?
JoeBrady
As a RS, I agree. Fair on both sides. The Sox might get two-three starters, and the other Sox might get an AS for 2 years.
Sagacity
Mikenmn – When you say both sides to you mean the White Sox and the Yankees? You sure can’t mean the Red Sox. Breslow’s choice makes me think of Ned Beaty in Deliverance. The CWS embarrassed him.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
Redsox completely overpaid. Its funny, they gave up more for Crochet then what they got for Mookie Betts. The GM got taken to the cleaners. This is the type of package that you trade for young established starters like Paul Skenes or even Hunter Greene
Poolhalljunkies
Lol you hate the mets didnt get him haha this is how its supposed to be when you have a stocked system or bank account you overpay for what you want
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@Poolhalljunkies I wouldn’t of mind if the Mets got Crochet but he was not at the top of my list. I’d rather have Sonny Gray and Luis Castillo over Crochet in terms of prospect capital/how good I think they can be
rmullig2
You’re not getting Skenes for that package. Skenes would cost all of the top 4 prospects and a couple of guys off the major league roster like Abreu and Raffy.
That package wouldn’t even bring back Livvy.
Poolhalljunkies
LFG – No arugument that skenes is worth more than crochet based on control alone but can you explain how skenes is a “more established” young starter than crochet?..and i dont want here read anything about college or the minor leagues..neither establishes anything in this argument
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@Poolhalljunkies that facts are that Crotchet just converted into a starter while Skenes has been a starter. Thats the difference. Plus Skenes doesn’t bring the same injury history as Crochet either
Poolhalljunkies
The point is neither of them are all that established and to claim one is more established at this point than the other is impossible there simply isnt enough evidence either way we can agree to disagree on that
JoeBrady
Skenes and Greene are never getting traded. Neither is Skubal. That’s why you ante up for guys like this.
Goose
If Teel is the only big prospect it is worth the gamble. Though I would still like to see them go get Burnes. Their rotation would be enough, without adding any other pieces, to put them in the playoff race.
jpauly12
yeah, the sox definitely won this trade
Palehose72
This looks very favorable to the White and NOT Red Sox
Lilscrappy
Hell yeah, the white Sox crushed it. Good on them especially for not accepting Casas as a piece. The cat is out of the bag on his mediocrity now. Even the Mariners don’t want him!
Pads Fans
Guess the Padres asked for too much for Cease. Good.
Poolhalljunkies
Prob had alot to do with 1 year of control for cease vs 2 with crochet
Baseballisthebest
Did you see what your GM asked for Cease? Crochet doesn’t have the health or history of being a TOR that Cease does but he is a really nice addition and he will cost just prospects, not guys off the OD roster. Now if he can just stay healthy.
Pads Fans
I had not seen that until you said something about it and i went and watched Morosi.
Good luck to your Red Sox.
Thec’s
Give this guy the 8 contract! They said Teel was struggling! Now sign another bull pen arm and a right handed stick
Sabermetric Acolyte
Trading Teel is surprising, Montgomery far less so considering we still have Anthony and Campbell.
That said, I’m an old school Boston sports fan. I just naturally assume things will go badly.
Bob Sacamano 310
People thought it was hilarious when I said it would take 2 of Boston’s prospects that are on the T100 list. Well done, Getz. Solid quality and quantity move.
RickEO
WOW
acell10
I really hope they’re wrong and Montgomery isn’t part of this trade
Dumpster Divin Theo
Uh oh spaghetti
all in the suit that you wear
Yeah. Trading Montgomery may be huge mistake.
olmtiant
Most overrated word …. Potential… but unlike the SALE trade this goes both ways in this deal…
bosoxforlife
I was hoping the Sox would be able to ship Casas out, sign Bregman and move Devers to 1st in any deal for a starter.
kingbum
Takes talent to get talent, I don’t hate this at all. Red Sox need an Ace more than an elite catcher, y’all should chill about Teel. Now get one more TOR and we will be cooking.
RoyalsFanAmongWolves
December 6, 2016
Chicago White Sox traded LHP Chris Sale to Boston Red Sox for CF Luis Alexander Basabe, RHP Michael Kopech, RHP Victor Diaz and 3B Yoan Moncada.
This is the last time the White Sox traded a lefty pitcher to the Red Sox. Two years later, the Red Sox won the World Series.
dazedatnoon
Only own 3 White Sox jerseys….
Big Hurt, Sale, and Crochet…….
redsorbust
Deal done. Very surprised at how little WS got back. No overpay. They must have really loved Kyle Teel for some reason. 56.60 going to WS and 53.40 going back to RS per baseball trade values.
kingbum
It is a slight edge to the White Sox but an Ace caliber pitcher was always going to be pricey. Boston needed an Ace more than they need Teel so I’m happy.
nrd1138
I can only imagine the reaction of the Red Sox prospects when they find out they have to go to the White Sox and their black hole that is their minor league system. They better be talented, as there is little instruction for the position players in the system.
Pads Fans
Why in the world would you use that site?
SewaldSwansonSwoon
Well, Baltimore’s competitive window looks like it is quickly slamming shut. Failing to secure a top lefty is a cataclysmic failure. Seeing the top lefties all move into the AL East is a disaster unfolding in real time.
Wagner>Cobb
Unless they somehow sign Burnes, they are almost certainly on the outside looking in already.
SewaldSwansonSwoon
Yep. Moved the wall to appeal to lefty pitchers, failed to get top-line lefty pitchers. Winning the division against NYY With Fried, Boston with Crochet, and even TOR with the way they keep trying (and failing) to spend is feeling like an exercise in futility without Burnes.
NashvilleJeff
@Sewald: Confused by your comment. How does shortening the distance to the seats by moving the left field wall in “appeal to lefty pitchers”? Makes it easier for rh hitters w/pull power to get it over the shortened wall. All Baltimore pitchers should hate this—-especially the lefties.
SewaldSwansonSwoon
The original dimension expansion was to compliment lefty pitchers.
Wagner>Cobb
The Toronto staff still has a lot of upside. Gausman, Berrios, and Bassitt all have quality CV’s and one can’t presume that a good season is unattainable from any of them this year.
Kevin Illyanovich Rasputin Kubusheskie
Wikelman Gonzalez… best name ever, sounds like a Blaxploitation hero!
letitbelowenstein
Sounds too much like Michael Winkelman who played Little Luke on “The Real McCoys”. Yes, I’m that old.
Kevin Illyanovich Rasputin Kubusheskie
Fortunately i’m not… quite 🙂
william-2
I certainly hope the Red Sox call on Cease, and any other top tier trade candidate starter before pulling the trigger on this. If the Cease/others asking price allows us to keep Teel, you want to keep Teel.
Wagner>Cobb
Well they already expended some prospect capital. They should just spend to add a starter/high end relievers and a bat.
tikiagedola
Now, the spoiled Red Sox fans can shut up
JScottG
Getz is in over his head. Congrats Red Sox you held on to your top 3 prospects which 1 had to be in this deal.
This was terribly handled, Getz had no immediacy on him to just take this offer now.
A for Red, F for White.
Killer of Ignorance
Braden Montgomery was called the steal of the draft when he fell to Boston. Many thought he would easily go top ten. And now they dump him before he even gets a chance. Teel was anointed the catcher of the future for the Red Sox with great offense and solid catching skills. I know nothing about the other two prospects the White Sox received, but the panel on the MLB Network were gushing about the huge package Boston gave up. For one player. After the White Sox turned down a huge number of trade proposals, they finally got one from a team desperate to make a big splash after striking out on all their free agent pursuits. Wow, for a guy with injuriy concerns, and one of the worst pitchers in the league for hard contact, with a violent, sky high leg kick that is really weird looking, Boston will probably let this guy walk in a couple of years.
Killer of Ignorance
Oh please…the boys here at MLB Trade Rumors just called the package the White Sox received for Crochet a MASSIVE haul. You seem to be completely misguided for some reason.
nrd1138
Im sure the ‘boys’ also though the Sox did well in getting Kopech and Moncada back in the Sale trade as well.
nrd1138
The problem is that Getz had a losing hand, everyone knew that cheapskate Reinsdorf demanded to move Crochet or risk have to pay him more due to Arbitration. Compound that with Getz’s naivety and you get what you get. Could these guys be good?
I mean with the Sox minor league system they could be ‘can’t miss’ prospects, and then miss wildly.
Wagner>Cobb
I wonder how they will manage Crochet’s workload to keep him healthy and effective for the next two years, and ideally into the future if they decide to/can extend him? Might make the most sense to invest more heavily in the bullpen. In fact, with the volatility of the rest of the staff, that’s almost certainly the best route. A 6 man rotation might also make sense if they sign a middle/back end rotation guy who can offer some sense of innings-stability. Kyle Gibson or Lorenzen make some sense in that regard.
JoeBrady
If they use a prospect progression, they’d add 30 innings, bringing him up to 176 IPs.
nrd1138
With an entire offseason of working out to increase his workload he should be fine. If the pitching coach is better than the White Sox coach (Im sure he is), then he will also be more efficient with his pitch count each game as well.
goob
I’ll be darned. Sox stick to their knitting. SP staff on the mend.
mets1977
Wow that is a huge haul of prospects. Never were going to get teams #1 or 2, he only has really one year of history as a starter. White Sox should be able to take a step forward in another season. Might as well trade Roberts now also and see if they can get out of the rebuild in 2026 with these young players. Look at Detroit, traded the veterans and young players stepped up and made the playoffs. I know there is a lot of negativity around previous trades (as there should) but at least to this uneducated eye of Red Sox Prospects looks good.
Aiden Awe
Looks like a nice haul for the Wsox.
Salzilla
Good deal, congratulations to both Sox!
This one belongs to the Reds
They just have to change their Sox.
bmann300
Boy the Red Sox must Love the White Sox- anytime they have a good player- the Ted Sox get him for a song and dance! So, the WS got a bunch of young Minor Leaguers whom if they get good the WS will trade them for even younger players. We have an owner and GM who dont deserve to own/run a MLB franchise.
Moneyballer
The Red Sox AAA team next year is The Chicago White Sox.
BloodySox
Finally. With Soto we would score 10 runs a game but give up 12
Moneyballer
Mets don’t seem to be worried.
trashtalker4life
This breaks during my English essay final these stories always break at the worst time for me
YourDreamGM
B for Chicago
C for Boston
I really wish I could reverse those grades.
Cease is awesome. Insane strike out walks. Filthy stuff. Only concern was answered strongly last year, health. 2 years. Much rather have him than Burnes and Fried. But would I rather have Snell and say a Yusei Boyd Sevy whoever my scouting liked and acceptable risk reward variable. No. But Cease is much cheaper. But gone in 2 years or really expensive to keep.
Grades are so close because like any not awful F trade Boston kept their most elite prospects. Montgomery has scouting fans that think he was top 5 in draft or even number 1 and has scouts (more obviously since he fell to 12 or wherever ) that think 12 to 15. I am in middle personally. My concern is swing and miss. The people with injury concerns I don’t get, thats why you have medical employees. Teel seems safe to be average starting catcher. Thats floor. I and any scouting report I ever seen above average to good. A weakness though. Power. A gap hitting catcher is great. But it’s not a huge hr every single year all star. So why Chicago didn’t get a A. But they could because this is probably as good as it gets for a return. I gotta save room for the A because if the Padres had the $ AJ would have given higher upside better next tier prospects. Gonzalez good arm. Rather have a slider than curve. Changeup needs to be better. Reliever risk here. And control is biggest issue maybe. Meidroth 2b so huge hit already. Lack of power another blow. Love the bat ball approach. Boston kept their 3 best prospects, well at least 2 best at worst. Mid system prospects were high ceiling or had lots that need to go right. I think they paid the price to get Cease but Chicago did well.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Cease? You mean Crochet.
YourDreamGM
What! I thought this was for Cease! Lol yeah I just typed without thinking and my brain put in cease. Although they should have kept sale or traded for cease last year and they might have made a ton more $. Sox fans are craving a winning product and playoff games are huge bucks. Gms work a lot of long hours.. Especially during the meetings. Even dream gms. Mistakes will happen.
Sad.Sox 3
I look ata 25yo with 13k’s/9. Maybe he’s Randy Johnson, maybe the four other guys are Yoan Moncada. Or not, none of us know.
Look into your crystal balls, TOR starters are starting at $28mm per, middle infielders, catchers are not. If the Sox extend him quickly the could have made a great trade. ABSOLUTE worst case scenario? He’s a lock down closer for the next 6yrs
nrd1138
Given the White Sox pathetic history of developing positional talent? The latter is likely (and no that is not a compliment to the White Sox either)
raz427
I feel sorry for Kyle Teel. Poor guy is going to a dumpster franchise now.
ClevelandSteelEngines
White Sox need a guy like Teel to help glue the guys together.
vanswanson
Remember the last haul the Sox got from Boston, how did that work out? Too much faith in Getz doing it right, oh well
RoyalsFanAmongWolves
Yoan moncada is the only one still with the team
bmann300
Nope- he is a free agent
nrd1138
Thank god. Let him go somewhere else and con a team for a big contract before the injuries return.
Baseballisthebest
See! The Red Sox can have nice things. Just don’t extend him Breslow. You saw what happened to Sale.
Moneyballer
Well the White Sox are going to be BAD next year. No help to the big club that set a record for losses in a season. Take away their best pitcher and how bad could this team possibly be next year?! Now they have 2 catchers of the future, that certainly makes sense. The White Sox are MLB’s worst run organization and there’s nothing you can say to convince me otherwise!
quade
Yeah I am not sure you really follow or understand the White Sox and baseball in general.. For example, the White Sox starting pitching wasn’t the reason the team didn’t win. Just look at how many games they lost last year while leading in the 7th. Also, absolutely nothing wrong with having two catching prospects. I mean I understand you don’t think they could possibly trade one or move one to another position.
But I agree, no need to try and convince such an intellectual scholar
Moneyballer
You just made my point. The starting pitching wasn’t the reason the white sox didn’t win. Your words. So you’re gonna take the best pitcher away from that team and do nothing else to improve the team?! Yeah that will work out great for them. I feel sorry for white sox fans, if any still exist.
quade
Drew Thorpe will have a full year. Schultz will most likely be called up, even Hagen. Cannon took a huge step. Iriarte has a shot in the rotation. Mason Adams too.
A lot of pitching in the pipeline. I get it though with your grand knowledge all these pitchers would be busts.
No need to feel sorry. No one needs sympathy from such an expert
nrd1138
Well to be fair nothing is guaranteed with prospects, especially catchers. Plus like others have noted, if Quero really stinks as a catcher, move him to first base (which the Sox also need help at).
That all said I have little faith any of the return for Crochet makes it to the majors. Like you said just a sham of an org at this point, at least with position players and developing them.
Aiden Awe
The A’s are by far the worst franchise in baseball. The Wsox are up there too, but A’s, Marlins, Pirates and Angels are worse too.
JoeBrady
Not even close.
soxfan4381
Breslow is an idiot. Why are we trading Reel when we have no depth in that spot. If you are going to send good prospects then at least go after Seattle pitchers that are more established and/or have more arb years. I don’t think Grochet is going to be an ace. He doesn’t have the track record or durability to warrant that prospect hall. Should sign Burnes and if nothing else try to trade for Cease.
pogo
This is huge…. good for Red sox from a pitching standpoint. Not sure about the prospects. Soxfan4381 had his take. I’m not for depletion st s position but it’s one catcher. Draft 4 year starter and make up some depth fairly easy. But catchers are hard. Usually need a high draft pick for special ones.
pogo
Eovaldi has been pretty healthy throughout his career. That plays in. TJ at 23 is rough to predict
ClevelandSteelEngines
idk if three full seasons since ’11 can be considered as pretty healthy throughout his career. He’s definitely been hurt a lot for the past 14 seasons.
Sagacity
Cleveland – I’m not sure how relevant games missed 14 years ago are but he’s missed 17% of his starts since the COVID season.and is 41 and 25 during that time period. He’s a competitor and a leader.
Here is the fact that makes me disagree with your assessment. Bruce Bochy, who knows pitching, chose to bring him back when he could have pursued Crochet. Nasty Nate is not a #1 SP on a good roster he’s a #2. What’s that make Crochet? Will he be as good as Houck? I have my doubts. Giving up Teel and Meidroth and our #1 pick is a huge over pay BUT they saved money and that is always what’s most important. I expect the next pitcher will also not be a #1 starter so Houck could still be the best pitcher on the team as we go into 2025 but again the owners will be making a ton of money and our team will be around .500.
Who knows they still have time to downgrade the future even more. They can keep Devers at 3B and destroy the future, they can trade Anthony and Campbell and further down grade the future and they can promote Mayer and further downgrade the future. This disastrous off season isn’t over yet. Lots more bad choices can still be made!!
Sad.Sox 3
Pogo- Eovaldi had TWO Tommy John surgeries
Jackalopal
Chris sale jr
letitbelowenstein
Be better than Gary Peters Jr. Although Peters was a darn good hitter.
Sagacity
jackalopal = Crochet is no Sale.
nrd1138
Chris Sale helped get the Red Sox a WS and Kopech and Moncada never became anything..
Elon’sDOGEbag
How many Bostonians are going to pronounce it CRAWTCHIT Or call him “Crotch itch” when he gets on their bad side??
dasit
that horse has left the barn the nickname is already crotch rocket
Elon’sDOGEbag
Splendid!
Castiglione
Am I missing something? What has Crochet really proven to deserve this kind of return, good for the ChiSox but for some odd reason it feels that the thoughts on Crochet are as if the guy has competed at the highest level for 3+ years rather than 3 months.
If Red Sox hit on this great but for Chicago you have to take this considering he’s not worth a whole lot if he comes out and struggles the first half of next season since he’s barely proven anything to begin with.
Sad.Sox 3
The five players on this trade are all unknown values, with one exception, we know that Crochet has an arm that struck out 200 mlb hitters last year and he’s 25.
Of course there’s a health and learning curve, but there is for the prospects too
pogo
If they are smart the extend him sooner rather than later. Might get a aav discount if they act quicker
JoeBrady
I’d love to see that. Crochet has to have some level of concern about his own health and might no mind trading a small amount of FA years in exchange for security.
B Thomas
He has had his TJ so health should be good and his stuff is 80+. After you watch him you will understand. He is the kind of guy who can beat the best lineups in baseball.
JoeBrady
After you watch him you will understand.
=======================
I understand the health concerns, but his stats are stunning.
fWAR/IP is maybe #2 or #3 in BB.
K-BB% is #1 by a fair margin, 29.6% v Skenes 26.8% and Sale’s 26.5%
K/9 #1 narrowly ahead of Snell and well ahead of Skenes.
Extend him and take the gamble.
SFGRab
Yep to all this. The watching part as well. He is nasty. If I was a Red Sox fan I would be stoked. He is a stud, 6’6 245, deceptive and smooth delivery, hides the ball, hard for hitters to pick it up. Tops out at 100… consistently high 90’s, but his slider, change up… secondary pitches are pretty sick as well. Like you said Joe he has the best K-BB % in MLB, but it isn’t just his command of the strike zone, he gets so many guys out with pitches out of the zone. He reminds me of prime Madison Bumgarner with a much better fastball. And he is 25! In a normal world there is absolutely no way this guy should even be available, but the white sox are not normal.
rmullig2
The Red Sox are desperate for a TOR starter and too cheap to pay for one in free agency. Crochet is the only cheap TOR starter available so he’s going to cost an arm and a leg.
sacrifice
Red Sox gave up a ton
WTF?
PaleHose90
Getz & company once again getting fleeced. ChiSox have a catching prospect in Quero. Disappointed to see Wilyer Abreu not coming to Chicago in this deal.
Sagacity
PaleHose90 = See if you can talk the White Sox in swapping out Abreu for Teel or for Meidroth or for their #1 pick Montgomery.
Breslow is the idiot. Getz cleaned up. He got more for an unproven clown like Crochet than CWS got for Sale who was a proven stud. Breslow should be fired along with Cora so maybe we can get some intelligent thinking into the organization not completely inexperienced guys.
I Want to Believe
Looks like a good haul for the White Sox. I feel like they should let Luis Robert try to bounce back tho, and pray he hasn’t forgotten how to mash. Then flip midseason when the right offer shows up.
The Brokenheart Kid
Once more Getz got got by a smarter GM. If that underwhelming haul was enough to acquire Crochet, any club interested in Junior need only load up the delivery truck with a few cases of salt.
Aiden Awe
Seems like a fine haul at best.
Sagacity
Aiden – If you are a white sox fan you are going to love this trade.
Teel is a catcher that doesn’t come around often. He dominated in the minors and he looks to be one notch down from Adley Rutschman. Montgomery our first pick fell to us out of pure luck and then we traded him as if he was no big deal. He’s a huge deal!! Meidroth is the guy you probably don’t know much about. He’s outperformed the darling of the Red Sox front office Mayer. You will love this kid too. He’s an excellent 2B, a consistent hitter with an ability to maintain a high OBP. Gonzalez was the throw in pitcher. He’s a low level SP with some upside but not a star like the others.
Aiden Awe
I do like the trade a lot, Wsox got the OF prospect and quality hitting prospect like Teel.
nrd1138
‘Dominated in the minors’.. yeah.. There is a reason why its the minors vs majors.. The White Sox have a history of players that dominated the minors only to look completely lost in the majors (or even a minor league level higher).
If the White Sox had any sort of positional player development in the minors and majors, Id be stoked, but with the White Sox history, all of these guys are wildcards at best.
Aiden Awe
I will agree they are far better at developing pitching than hitting, not Rays or Dodgers top tier but at least decent/average tier.
Sagacity
nrd1138 = So here is the good news. Teel is ready for the majors so his development is fairly complete and he’s the best catcher the CWS have had since Fisk.
Montgomery needs seasoning but has great athleticism but if the minors are as bad as you say, he could disappear over time. Meidroth is MLB ready as well so you dodge the bad minor league system issue with 2 of the 4 prospects.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Just to finish in third or forth place.
The Brokenheart Kid
Anybody still think the ’25 White Sox are not going to lose more games than the ’24 edition? Human-induced climate change is the only thing that might save the Sox from losing fewer than 121 games in 2025.
BITA
If you arent going to contend you might as well be terrible. I like what the White Sox are doing. Remember the Astros……
nrd1138
Remember the Oakland A’s, Heck White Sox fans only have to go back to 2015 to know this plan, and then to 2021 to start to see the wheels fall off of the rebuild…
NoNeckWilliams
“Human-induced climate change”
Tell us you’re stupid, without telling us you’re stupid.
Sad.Sox 3
Hey Troll, I have been killing Breslow, so i will give him some credit and say i would like to assume that Breslow back-doored to Crochet’s agents the question about extensions. Assuming he got an answer that he liked in terms of dollars and years he overpaid the White Sox based on that information to get him
Sagacity
Sad Sox 3 – Very interesting theory. I think you give Breslow too much credit and the situation will only get worse for Boston fans if Teel makes the all-star game before Crochet.
HalosHeavenJJ
I really like this return for Chicago. Time will tell but I like the Montgomery kid and everybody expects Teel to be legit.
I’m not up to speed on the others, but two really nice talents are headed to the South Side.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
Boston more interested in spending prospects this offseason….
xpensivewinos
Great trade for the Red Sox. Haven’t said that in awhile. Depending on health, I would offer Casas to the Marlins for Jesus Luzardo to really buff out the starting rotation…………and then sign Christian Walker to play 1B. Gotta assume a right-handed hitting outfielder is coming as well. Fun time of the year…….
Mariners_Mojo
Mariners should have sent the prospects to Chicago and got Casas from boston
Bobcastelliniscat
Good deal for the Red Sox. Crochet will help Boston. Prospects are just that sometimes they pan out, most of the time they don’t. Still Crochet wasn’t doing Chicago any good. White Sox fans deserve better ownership.
dasit
last big deal with the white sox worked out pretty well for boston
Rsox
Of course the one move Breslow makes is the one I’d hoped he wouldn’t.
Oh well. Teel and Meidroth should both be in line for starting jobs at Catcher and Second Base respectively for the White Sox
kyredsox17
Same people crying about not doing anything are crying about an overpay. These are the 2 ideal top prospects id like to have moved. I do not ever care about a top catching prospect. Ever. Now you have a stud YOUNG pitcher you hope you can extend.
920falcon
What do you have against top catching prospects?
JoeBrady
I mentioned this elsewhere. I am still scarred by Swihart going from the #17 prospect to disappearing. And Cartaya just moved from top-20 to unranked? If we had a weaker farm, I’d be more concerned, but not right now, and not about Montgomery.
And now is the time for an extension. Crochet is no health lock, and he knows it. If you buy out his two arbitration years, and two FA years, he makes good money and is still a FA by age 30. $60/4?
SomTeaver
What happened with the Mets being aggressive regarding this trade? Perhaps they were just super angry going ”Aargh” in their conversations with the Chi Sox?
bigbatflip
Losing Teel is a gut punch.
The other three should be replaceable, but high end catching prospects that can hit are so rare. Moving him for only 2 years of team control of Crochet stings. If they don’t/can’t extend him this could look like a really bad deal, maybe the inverse of Veritek/Lowe trade?
ffrhb14Sox
Agree on losing a top catching prospect but Crochet should easily outperform Heathcliff Slocumb.
Yanks4life22
This is such a great offseason to be selling
BITA
Agree with that. As a Cardinal fan I really can’t complain that they are sitting this offseason out. Wish they would trade more players than they will.
sss847
white sox needed young talent at shortstop and outfield.
so they got a catcher and an outfielder who’s on crutches.
chris getz is brilliant.
Aiden Awe
The trade was great though.
nrd1138
If you are a fan of the White Sox you know that’s not something you can prognosticate, given this history of this org… I give them no credit until one of these guys pans out (which may be never given the Sox horrendous track record.).
Im sorry, I have seen this team stink it up for too long to have any ‘hope’ for the org, other than I hope the current owner is sooner no longer the owner and that next owner wants to win and not just collect the money with a subpar product.
dano62
Taken to the woodshed again; Getz is apparently the Jim Benning of baseball GMs
2020vision
I’m confident that last year will prove to be his best year.
good vibes only
Nice haul for the White Sox IMO.
Poolhalljunkies
Hope it ends up being win win
Dumpster Divin Theo
Not as good as what they got from Atlanta. Got 5 guys back in that deal. This one only 4. 5 > 4.
Rexhudler86
Jon Morosi is reporting that the red Sox have talks heating up with Seattle regarding their pitchers.
sss847
so Luis Castillo for not Roman Anthony?
avenger65
Next they should sign McCann. Then the Red Sox will recreate the best part of the 2020 White Sox battery.
Poolhalljunkies
I bet they trade for castillo from seattle next using either casas or abreau and assume the contract
Rexhudler86
@poolhall. That’s what Dan o dowd was saying that casas is a piece being talked about, and he doubts they move the younger core.
Poolhalljunkies
Technically you could argue casas is part of the young core many think he will be a 40hr beast ..but yea he makes sense to bring back pitching
Rexhudler86
@poolhall. I was talking about Seattle not wanting to part with the young pitching core meaning it’s probably Castillo.
Bruin1012
Pool they aren’t trading Casas for Castillo no way.
Rexhudler86
@bruin. They were going off morosi reports. But that was off of the mlb network set in the hallway of the winter meetings. It probably has some legs to it. Atleast that’s what they are asking.
Sagacity
Bruin1012 – From your lips to the missing brains in the front office.
Bruin1012
Pool and Rex interesting Sox Prospects broadcast they talked about the Casas for Castillo rumors and Alex Speier simply said No.
I didn’t see anyway they were trading Casas for Castillo. If Casas were to go they would want one of the young hurlers on the Mariners.
Rexhudler86
@bruin1012. That’s probably why it stalled, it also could just be preliminary talks. Not saying casas Is bad, but it would take a haul to get a Seattle pitcher not named Castillo. Orioles could offer something that the red Sox, couldn’t match.
Sagacity
Rex – Why would BAL offer something better than Casas?
Who are you thinking?
1 – Rutschman – I don’t think so
2 – Henderson – I don’t think so
3 – Holliday – I don’t think so
4 – Westburg – I don’t think so
5 – Coby Mayo – I don’t consider him better than Casas
6 – Colton Cowser – I don’t think so
7 – Kjerstad – I don’t consider him better than Casas
That just leaves prospects and I don’t think Basallo will be offered.
Who were you thinking that is better than Casas that BAL would part with to get a tier 2 or 3 starter like Castillo?
SEA could get a Mayo or Westburg but it would cost them one of their young pitchers.
I say offer Mayer for Woo. That’s a double win for Boston.
Rexhudler86
@sugacity.
I was just saying the core 4 would take a big haul, probably more than crochet. Whether it’s gets done is another story, but Baltimore definitely needs pitching and Seattle will want more than a dh.
I was more talking about casas for Castillo. Mlb network was talking about it. Seems fair, but apparently casas is the next Bobby witt jr
Sagacity
Rex – Casas has some very unique traits that i like and his defense isn’t as bad as the metrics people make it out to be thanks to their poor defensive measurements for 1Bs. A one size fits all metric does a lot of injustice to certain positions more than others.
Casas was not somebody I was high on a few years ago because I wasn’t impressed with his minor league performance. When came up and struggled in the first half of 2023 I thought he was proving me right. Then, about mid-season he made an adjustment at the plate and started a whole new approach that showed he figured a few critical hitting components and that allowed him to be far more effective hitting. Devers did something similar in the off season of 2018 when he went from a crap hitter to a very good hitter in 2019. That adjustment changed his career and I think Casas is now heading in the same direction.
I might be wrong but I think trading Casas would be a huge mistake for two reasons: 1 – I think he will hit at an all-star level in the future and 2 – It will facilitate Cora moving Devers from 3B to 1B where he will hurt the team even more than he does at 3B. (5 times as many touches of the baseball on defense for a guy who leads baseball in misplays)
Castillo is durable, he’s consistent and he’s 32 years old next year with 4 years on his contract. If I was Boston I would offer more controllable players for him because they are less certain but have a high upside so trading for two prospects might mean more to Seattle than Casas. I would offer Mayer and Abreu for Castillo. I think it’s a fair trade that keeps Devers off 1B and moves their top prospect but he plays a position where Boston has some depth in prospects plus they have an expensive Story for a few more years. Seattle should sign Pete Alonso to give them the power hitter and middle of the order guy they need. They can use the Castillo money to help pay for him so his cost isn’t as significant.
But that’s just me. I want to see trades that help both teams.
JoeBrady
The issue would be balance. Casas is worth a good bit more than Castillo, but a good bit less than the other four.
JoeBrady
It’s hard to assess any trade involving a catching prospect. Blake Swihart is always in the back of my mind. He was ranked #17, and just never amounted to anything. So some guys can’t catch, and Teel’s Ks are alarming at 87 in 325 ABs.
That said, the WS got a good haul. They got no locks, but they got three players that might all be starters.
For the RS side, I like Crochet a lot, and he a linchpin type of guy. I still want another SP, but the pool is now a lot larger. Now we need to extend him.
Bruin1012
Just for context Joe Teel hit .298 in Portland a notoriously difficult hitting environment especially early in the season he struck out in 22.8% of his at bats but he also walked in 12.6% of his plate appearances he has consistently been a very obp guy and is likely to remain that way. He’s almost a lock to be a big league starting catcher. He’s already hit AAA so this isn’t some A ball hitter with inflated numbers. He’s a really good prospect but it’s obvious that the cost of starting pitching is very high and Breslow couldn’t sign one so this is what we get. The Red Sox farm took a bit of hit today but it’s still really good.
JoeBrady
Fair enough. Like I said elsewhere, if we had a weaker farm, I’d feel differently, but Crochet is almost a perfect fit for us.
Big whiffa
Mesoraco and Grandel were both former top catching prospects for the reds. Both ranked higher than teel and went on to have their “moment” in the majors but neither panned out to be consistent top of the lineup hitters on their teams which is consistent for catching prospects. For every adley and posey there’s 50 more top catching prospects that go on to underachieve with their bat. History makes it a risky headliner. Then the second piece has never played pro ball. Risky as well. For all the hype, and all the teams interested, seems like an incredibly light return imo
And Joe, I would not extend him until he puts up another quality season or atleast most of one. Let’s see what he does on the big stage first ! Then pay him accordingly to other top pitchers if he can perform
JoeBrady
I loved Grandal when the Reds drafted him. I was hoping he’d fall to the RS, but it was just too far away.
IRT to the extension, the problem with waiting for another quality year is that a) he’d only be one year away from free agency, and more willing to gamble on health, b) might score some decent $$$ in arbitration, again encouraging him gamble on himself, and c) if he has a big year, even if we sign him, it’ll be for twice as much.
Right now, imho, he is on par with Skubal and Skenes, just with a much larger injury risk. I’m a gambler by nature, which is how Buxton always finds his way onto one of my roto teams, but if the medicals are decently clean, I’d put some money on the table.
quade
First post I’ve read claiming the return was light. Montgomery would have been a top 5 pick if he didn’t break his ankle. That one will most likely come back to hurt years from now. Looking at it from another angle. The Red Sox traded the 14th overall pick in 2023, the 12th overall pick in 2024, a major league ready IF, and a pitcher that in 2023 was considered the best pitching prospect in the team’s organization for Crochet. Thats an awful lot to give up for a pitcher that hasn’t thrown more than 150 innings in a season and will be a free agent in 2026.
Big whiffa
He’s wasn’t going in the top 5 of the last draft. That was a loaded draft ! Skew it how you like, they still
Kept Mayer Anthony Campbell casas both international ss that performed well and headlined a catcher as the center piece. Great move by Red Sox !
quade
Hey broke is ankle right before the draft, not taking that into consideration is crazytalk. You are better off coming back and saying it is unlikely he’ll ever recover to where he was before the injury. (Which is crazy too but its a better angle)
Also, you threw Casas in there. This just shows how disconnected the logic is. There was zero chance, reason, however you want to say it that the White Sox would trade for anyone who has MLB experience. I’m sure Boston would love to trade Casas and move Devers to first.
Happy you are happy with the trade. Its nice that trades look good for both teams. I’ve read that Campbell was there but then there would be less overall in return. It would probably be Campbell and a couple greater than 15 prospects in the organization. In the end, the White Sox went after 4 of the top 14 prospects, 2 of the top 5 (both in the top 60 in all of baseball) in the Red Sox farm system. Thats not a bad haul for a pitcher that at this time last year they would have probably taken a bag of balls for. Someone who they didn’t know would even end up being a starter.
Big whiffa
You must have not been following last years draft. It was loaded at the top. Neither Caglianone nor wetherholt went in top 5 picks yet are both top 20 prospects.
And casas has proven mlb success with 4 years (I think) of control left. His probability of being a star at the mlb level is much greater than anyone in that trade plus he’s been mentioned in trade rumors. Only the white Sox incompetence would have them off this guy
My personal track record to discredit the return Chicago back goes more than a decade. Not a fan of either team but a student of the development of minor league players making it to the bigs. Excellent work by breslow on this one ! He took Getz to the cleaners
quade
Last year you could have traded Crochet for a bag of balls. This year you get 2 top 100 prospects. I guess you got taken to the cleaners.
Also, again you aren’t showing much knowledge of teams here. The White Sox have NEVER signed a player for over 100 million dollars. They are one of two teams in that situation. Their owner is 89 years old. Father time is coming and the best bet is to bring in young prospects. Not someone who as you say will be a star and demand 20+ million dollars in arbitration in two year.s. Let alone 4 when you’d have to pay him over 500 million. So I am sorry, you don’t understand why the White Sox went younger, its not because of incompetence, but more-so a financial decision.
Again, kudos to you for being more knowledgeable than every baseball person out there. I really hope a team decides to pick you up, man you could do wonders for them.
Sagacity
Big whiffa – Great comment about seeing more performance from Crochet. To give up that many of the real quality prospects for a pitcher with such a short history is just gambling. It’s like extending players like Bello when you have no idea of who he really is. The same can be said for Crochet. That’s why Burnes is a blue chip and Crochet is a flyer.
Remember Crochet is from the more hype than performance draft class of 2020. It was the COVID year and those chosen that year have mostly been disappointments from the first round.
Crochet threw just 6 innings in 5 games in 2020 and 3.1 innings for Tennessee that year. So a total of 9.1 innings in 2020. In 2021, he got in to 54 games for 54.1 innings on a bad CWS team. He missed out on the development process because he was better than the alternatives in the program not because he was good.
In relief in 2021 his ERA was 3.64 and his WHIP was 1.27 which is significantly better than he did at Tennessee where his career ERA was 4.64 and his WHIP was 1.402.
In 2022 Crochet threw NO INNINGS!!!
At this point nobody in their right mind would want him.
In 2023 he pitched 6 games in relief at AA and AAA. This is an incredibly small sample of what he can do. His ERA at AA was 6.00 and at AAA it was it was .2.84 in six innings. His six inning WHIP at AA was 1.667 and his six inning WHIP at AAA was 0.097. He was then promoted to the White Sox where he had NO STARTS and 13 appearances for a 3.55 ERA and a 1.974 WHIP in 12.2 innings pitched. Again incredibly small sample so it’s difficult to conclude anything from it except he walked 13 in 12.2 innings.
After 2023 it’s fair to say Crochet was a far below average reliever who had some serious control issues. FYI that was ONE YEAR AGO!!!!
He had a great 2024 season. He moved to starter and had 32 starts. He finally threw some significant innings in that he had 146 but that is really low for a pitcher with 32 starts. In 146 innings he gave up 123 hits, 33 walks and struck out 209 batters. His main strength is strikeouts in that his average K/9 in the minors was 17.5 while his H/9 were 7.9 and his BB/9 were 4.4.
In 2024 his K/9 were 12.9 and his H/9 were 7..6 and his BB/9 were 2.0!! The 2.0 is by far and away the best of his career.
So now the question is – With such a small sample of data what can be projected? Can he duplicate last year or was it his career year? Can he get better under a new pitching coach or will Cora do him in like Price and Sale?
There is next to no history on this guy and we gave up a catcher who dominated in the minors unlike any catcher for Boston since Varitec or Fisk. We gave up a guy who was projected to go in the top 3 in the draft in June and fell to the Red Sox just to be traded for an unproven pitcher. We also gave up an excellent 2B who might have beat out Grissom for a starting spot in 2025 and we also gave up a low level pitcher.
To me, the gambling factor is higher in this trade than in the signing of Giolito who was coming off two bad years and the signing of O’Neill who was coming off two bad years. Giolito’s gamble was a bust and O’Neill was neither bust nor successful because he played only 120 games. Now we have to look forward to a big strike out guy who has played at the collage and pro levels of baseball since 2018 and only had ONE good year in 2024.
We might as well have watched him at a showcase for all the perfomance results that he has since 2018 that wasn’t good and then suddenly the one event (2024) that was excellent. Have you heard the saying you can’t trend with only one point? That applies here. So this is truly a crap shoot!!!
A very, very expensive crap shoot.
Sagacity
Big whiffa – BIG BS buddy. Getz took Breslow to the wood shed and beat the daylights out of his rear end!!
Sagacity
Big Whiffa – Go back to baseball america and look at the pre=draft order. Montgomery was as high as three just weeks before the draft that why it was huge that he fell to Boston over a silly thing like ankle injury. Also, any Mayer fan hasn’t been paying attention to minor league baseball. Teel was far more valuable than Mayer. I wish it had been Mayer not Teel. I would be fine with the riskiness of the trade with Mayer in it rather than Teel. I hate losing Montgomery as well because you can’t have enough 5 tool prospects in your farm system.
Sagacity
quade – I love reading your comments. Clearly Big Whiffa is an inexperienced baseball fan with lots of misconceptions. You get my vote for most intelligent comments by a contributor on this site. I look forward to reading more as time passes.
Big whiffa
I was actually a big fan of the bello signing. Looked like a sure thing from a budding player, he got paid, and fell straight on his face
Big whiffa
I have a job. Thx for the compliment
And it’s the medias job to feed your emotion, not tell the truth. MLB has controlled baseball media since the steroid era just the like US Fed gov controls our national media. And the baseball media wants you to believe the white Sox are competent and turning it around. Don’t buy it lol
Big whiffa
Getz couldn’t beat the daylight outa 5 dollar hokkker Rotf
Mayers projection is Royce Lewis. Teels projection is the 100 catchers that went before him that end up batting at the bottom of the order hitting 220 on a good year w 15-20 homers. Just like every other catcher in the league bc they are all part time players.
Montgomery projection is nothing bc there’s comp for a guy who’s never played pro ball nor swung a wooden bat. He may be great or he may never sniff the majors, as most prospects don’t
Get triggered much sag ? lol
quade
WOW…..
Didn’t realize this conversation turned in that direction. Three quick things then I’ll end this because I just realized I am discussing a topic with a flat earther.
1. No one said the White Sox organization is competent. You are assuming a lot there. In fact, most people expected the organization to trade Crochet even though it is quite illogical.
2. Where is this media rant coming from? Why bring up government. I feel really sorry for someone who does that.
3. Sarcasm…
Big whiffa
How is political science a conspiracy? When you control the media, you control the stories being published and how those stories are portrayed
MLB caught the black eye of a lifetime with the steroid scandal. Their response to that scandal was to implement control over how their sport is portrayed. Now every team has one or several beat writers that are employed by the team they cover and mlb. Is that a conspiracy?
Fox and cnn report stories covered by the ap then slew those story lines to appease their audience. Is that a conspiracy too ?
It’s fluff talk bro. Congratulating the WS for the trade when everyone penned them in for a blue chip return which they didn’t receive is fluff talk
Sagacity
Big Whiffa – You do realize Selig gave baseball the black eye because he snuck a juiced baseball into the game because of the impact of the strike on attendance and then shouted steroids? Steroids were prevalent when I played in the 70s. For 20 years nobody complained because they didn’t impact HRs. Then, thanks to the strike Selig was desperate and knew in 1987 they mistakenly used baseballs from a different source and HRs jumped nearly 25% so he went back to the source and changed the balls used after the strike. The HRs jumped nearly 25% again and kept rising. Selig shouted Steroids so he wouldn’t be blamed for the rise in HRs and he got the government involved so he could provide the fake solution and be the hero and make the HOF.
Don’t believe me, check the numbers with Baseball Reference. During the 70s and 80s when the growth in steroids was happening HRs were not impacted. HRs/Game were consistent year to year and that would NOT be the case if steroids mattered. Then check out the huge jump in 1987. Some people saw McGwire teaming with Canseco and using steroids as the reason HRs went up. Then, when the ball was returned to the same source as it was in 1986 the HRs dropped back to the 1986 level. Nobody stopped taking steroids so how can steroids be the source of the HR increase in 1987? It wasn’t. It was the baseball. HRs stayed suppressed during Bonds’ THREE MVPs and then the strike happened. It was no coincidence slogans like “chicks dig the long ball” were created by the MLB (Selig) after he re-introduced the juiced baseballs. It was to gain back the fans by design. Too bad investigative reporters weren’t smart enough to figure this out back then. Our HOF would be more equitable and reflective of true greatness if they had and Selig wouldn’t be in it. He deserved a lifetime ban for his actions but got the HOF instead.
You are right that the MLB misleads the public on a daily basis. MLB channel commentators are schmoozed to get the desired messages of agents, public relations organizations and front offices on the air ways. It’s pathetic. The whole concept of a Rumors website furthers the misdirection that happens in baseball because it sways public opinion and allows many people to not be accountable for their actions.
Cora, Hinch and Beltran should have gotten lifetime bans. Cora should have gotten a second one for what he did in Boston before he was fired about the Houston cheating. He’s loved by the media which speaks to the integrity of the media. Right and wrong are not recognized by on air personalities unless it’s a paid for message from MLB.
Think about the fact that the CWS in 1919 were banned for cheating in 5 games but up to 90 games by the Astros brought a short season ban only. Why were the CWS banned? Because they impacted the outcome of games so gamblers could benefit from their actions. Today gambling is legal which means the MLB and other sports are in bed with the same folks who were banned from baseball 100 years ago. Is it any surprise that there are more upsets in sports today now that gambling is embedded. In the stock market their is insider trading that is monitored to some degree. In baseball and other sports, no such structure is in place so banging on cans that help a team win never got measured for the financial impact that it brought to the inside traders in baseball. Billions of dollars were made by the insiders, the very reason lifetime bans were given to CWS in 1919 and of course not given to the Astro’s manager and coaches who implemented the cheating or the players who participated in the cheating or didn’t participate in it but knew about it like Shoeless Joe Jackson.
Today, the bottom line is only about money for those in power. Get a slush fund from the companies that run the excessive gambling facilities and its fine. Kennisaw Mountain Landis must be rolling over in his grave to know game of baseball is now funded significantly by promoting gambling..
Big whiffa
Nice post Sag ! Good info that I was unaware of.
So Houston actual did get a fantastic return for Tucker ! The first year player they received clear 2 leagues of pro ball in a short stent. Not necessarily making him a proven pro but def much further along than the player the white sox acquired. Then the 3rd baseman from TB was ranked higher as a prospect than anyone in either trade. Then went on to have big league success. Excellent job acquiring talent by a well ran franchise in Houston
Houston was in touch with 2 teams. WS was in touch with atleast 6. White Sox P has 2 years of control vs Tucker just 1. Both cubs and Red Sox farm systems and controllable talent are loaded ! Yet the competent franchise got a less risky and better return than the incompetent franchise and gm. Houston clear winner and if WS win in this trade it’s bc they got lucky.
Thats more than a take – it’s how it is. White sox were penciled in to acquire a blue chip prospect and failed to do so with more teams to deal with.
Begamin
No prospect is a lock for anything and many top prospects have fanned out in the past, catcher or not. That said, Teel will probably be elevated to the ML roster some point next year. Since catchers are some of the worst hitting positions im confident he’ll be viable for years to come, given his defense warrants it.
Sagacity
Begamin – Yes catchers usually don’t hit like superstars and Johnny Bench is considered by many to be the best catcher of all-time. His numbers look like a league average player:
17 years 2158 games AVG .267 OBP .342 SLG .476 OPS .817 OPS+ 126
Would you have included Bench in this deal had you known ahead of time that these would be his final numbers? I think your argument is that you would have. Now doesn’t that sound insane?
I lived in Illinois years ago and two rival high school catchers played against each other at the time and went on to both play at the MLB level. Their names were Todd Hundley and Dan Wilson. I saw both player play and both were two of the best players in Illinois in their senior year and both went on to start in the MLB. As far above all the other hitters in the state as they were they were average hitters in the MLB.
Todd Hundley 14 yrs 1225 games
.234 average .320 OBP .443 SLG .763 OPS 102 OPS+
Dan Wilson 14 yrs 1299 games
.262 average .309 OBP .382 SLG .691 OPS 80 OPS+
Despite being two of the greatest HS catchers I’ve ever seen their MLB numbers were not impressive when stacked versus players who played infield or outfield positions.
So why did Johnny Bench get so many accolades and HOF honors when he couldn’t hit very well?
The answer explains why Teel being traded was a massive mistake.
The answer is stat differential, ability to throw out runners, the ability to call a game and the ability to be an on field leader.
Teel had proven by his numbers that he was a better hitter than Hundley and Wilson and possibly Bench so he was FAR better than the average catcher when measuring differentials. He has an excellent arm, calls an excellent game and is an on field leader.
Boston has only had a few players like that – Fisk and Varitek are the most prominent ones in recent years. This like giving away Betts because Bett’s number differential was huge and Teel’s has been so far in his career. You don’t trade away exceptional players if you want a winning program. Clearly Boston doesn’t understand that concept. They have parted with many star players like Betts and the tradition continues. There is no excuse for this type of stupidity. Montgomery is a crap shoot much like Crochet but Teel had proven himself and was discarded. That’s inexcusable. This is the difference between a great GM like Dombrowski and a crap GM like Bloom or Breslow. You have to figure out who your stars are and who your pretenders are and then deal the pretenders to fill your holes and keep your stars. We just gave away a star catcher which is one of the scarce commodities in baseball. His career numbers might be small compared to positional players but compared to catchers, they will be top notch if his trend of success continues in the future.
When I point out how bad Mayer’s has performed it’s to identify a pretender. Teel was just the opposite. If Boston had replaced Teel and Montgomery with the highly over-rated Mayers the Red Sox would have convincingly won this trade. Instead, they convincingly lost this trade without a single game being played yet. Crochet is a gamble and he’s not the second coming of Sandy Koufax. We have no idea what he is but we know what Teel is.
PrincessYuki
And apparently they still want a Mariners starter. Good luck with that is my reaction. The Mariners would have to get a quality first baseman, third baseman, and maybe some bullpen arms in return. Are the Red Sox willing to pay the price that a Mariners starter would be worth?
Rexhudler86
@princessyuki. They can get Casas. Wondering if they are going pitching in the trade market, because the price is so high in free agency.
rocky7
Casas and “quality first baseman” aren’t in the same sentence…..the Sox, and/or their fans seems somewhat desperate to trade Casas so why would anyone think he’s so great or could be so great……lots of sizzle with not enough steak……
LFGSD619
BTV says the White Sox win by $3.2m
JoeBrady
Then it is a great trade for both teams.
Camden453
According to fangraphs Teel is the best prospect with a 50 FV. #42 prospect in the top 100
dazedatnoon
Hate to see Crochet go. Good luck to him
TigersFan 12
Thats a huge haul for the white sox or a sp with one year of good work. Can you imagine what the Tigers could get for Skubal? Now may be the time to trade him and load up on young controllable current and future talent. Come on Orioles, you can’t let the Red Sox and Yankees pass you by. Offer us a similar package that includes Jackson Holiday and Grayson Rodriguez and we will do the deal.
Big whiffa
Not really. They didn’t get one blue chip or prospect of notoriety. Most prospects fall off the top 100 list post draft once reality settles in. That guy has never even played pro ball. And it’s impossible to rank catchers in the same way as other prospects since nearly everyone doesn’t pan out. The last two 2️⃣ players don’t even project as major league talent. Overall the package was much lighter than projected
Bruin1012
Kyle Teel is a blue chip prospect he is the 25th ranked prospect in baseball.
Kyle Teel has also reached AAA. The flame out rate is much lower for blue chippers that have already reached AAA. He’s more then likely going to be the starting catcher for the White Sox once they get the extra year of control after a month or so.
Big whiffa
imo, a blue chip catching prospect that pans out bats in the top 1/2 of the order in a good lineup (not by default) and your right, 2A and 3A production ensures a much less risky return, but catchers still have the highest risk of failure of prospects in that category.
JoeBrady
Can you imagine what the Tigers could get for Skubal?
============================
If Mr. Deeds or Mr. MacDonald are reading this, it would make for an interesting article.
1-What would Skubal get in a trade?
2-What kind of money would Skenes want for an extension?
Niekro floater
It’s the cheap way out, trade for player w/years of control left for prospect capital over signing pricey FA. Hopefully does well, expectations are different on winning team than histories worst team.
south side hit men
I hate that I’m a White Sox fan.
ibuititnoonecame
This helps now but I feel will look very bad in 3-4 years… hate seeing teal and last year # 1 included one or the other should have got it done
Big whiffa
Really ? It’s a much lighter package than forecasted.
Sagacity
Big whiffa – More big BS.
In a few years lets see if Crochet is more respect in baseball circles than Teel. A SP3 versus an all-star catcher. My money is on the catcher. that you keep bad mouthing because you simply don’t understand the game.
Pads Fans
Nice re-write Darragh. It reads so much better now.
TB Sox NY
I am happy the Red Sox got some pitching.Chapman and Crochet will help.Prospects are prospects.Fans want the team to get back to the playoffs next year.Were any of the 4 they gave up going to play a huge part in that?I don’t you can say yes they would have.Teel being a great player possibly.Would you rather have given up say Anthony?They have Wong which has had a few decent seasons.Wong is not old so let him ride until the younger catchers get up there.Catcher is usually not a big plus offensively as i have looked at stats of most catchers.Wong provided offense.If you are mad they gave up those players to get Crochet,more than had they done nothing. What would you have given up?Crochet was the White Sox ace.We don’t have an ace so says people on here.Ace’s cost capital.I feel if Croceht helps us get back to the playoffs aren’t people happy?Or wait a few more years for those four players to blossom so we could get back.People are upset they don’t do anything.They did now people are upset we didn’t give the Valdez?
TB Sox NY
I know people will name some catchers but name the top 10 offensive catchers?
Sagacity
TB sox NY – You the know the story of the guy falling off the building and going by the 20th floor he is asked how things are going and he say just fine? That’s your viewpoint on this deal.
A point in time reference without any understanding of the ramifications to both teams.
BOSTON – They got a guy who basically has pitched one season as a starter after being a below average reliever and an average pitcher in College. His ONE YEAR is your point in time evaluation of the great value the Red Sox gained. That can only be gained if all his bad years prior to 2024 were a fluke and his real ability is his 2024 numbers. SInce he stunk from 2018 to 2023 that seems HIGHLY UNLIKELY. So Boston’s haul is a highly questionable one because we got one player with no track record expect the 2024 season. Was it a career year or the beginning of a great career after SIX highly questionable seasons?
CWS – Got one of the three top Catching prospects in baseball. He rose through the minors quickly hitting at all levels. He has the skills to be a perennial all-star along with the other two top catchers Salas and Basallo who is competing with Adley Rutschman for the catcher job in Baltimore. The fourth catcher, a tier down from these three is Quero a CWS prospect already. Further confounding why a guy like Mayers wasn’t included rather than Teel.
CWS also gets – A top 5 OFer from this past draft class and a 2B who is at AAA ready to move into a starting spot in the MLB.
Boston’s haul is a risk and Chicago’s haul is a generational catcher, a recent college player who was a stud that is a power hitting speedster that plays great defense in center field , an outstanding 2B ready for the MLB and a low level SP.
CHICAGO WINS HANDS DOWN. END OF STORY.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
The more I look into this and think about it the more skeptical I am that this guy is the second coming of like, prime Cliff Lee or Randy Johnson or insert pitcher behind legendarily dominant run here.
He’s an exceptionally cromulent pitcher with severe durability issues-low financial risk, high upside, medium riding winding up on the IL.
Not sure why he’s so coveted and I don’t see him turning the tide in Boston.
JoeBrady
He’s an exceptionally cromulent pitcher with severe durability issues-lNot sure why he’s so coveted
==============================
He is certainly injury-prone, but cromulent? He had borderline the best numbers in baseball. fWAR/IP, K%, K-BB% all among the best 2-3 in the MLB.
drewm
“Boston is giving up a massive prospect haul”
/disagree
whyhayzee
This guy has Crochet been better than Skubal at the same point in their development. If he turns out to be even as good as Skubal going forward?
Teel is the one guy I wonder about because catchers who can be really become good major league catchers don’t come along very often. But I am guessing that Varitek has watched him a lot and provided input into the decision. Like just about every trade, final evaluation will have to wait.
TigersFan 12
Dude, look at Skubal’s career stats and his sheer dominance since he came up….Crochet is not even close to Skubal … Boston would have had to throw in 3 more top prospects on top of the current package to get Skubal.
JoeBrady
Skubal had the better FIP until he went to the inning limitations. Better K/W at the point also.
TheGr8One
My honest opinion
If he gets hurt Boston got hosed
If he doesn’t sign an extension Boston got hosed.
If it works out how Boston wants it’s a fair trade edge to Boston
I don’t think Boston will compete in that division in 2 years personally so an extension is a must to make this worth it.
Slider_withcheese
Good on Getz though. No way a package that loaded would have happened at last years trade deadline.
Psychguy
WS need to change their culture. Jettison guys who dogged it last year, although that might be said of management too.
whyhayzee
But I thought Red Sox prospects were overrated. Or is it overhated? Anyway, I’m sure it’s Cora’s fault. Unless it works out well. Then it’s because the fans held them to “raise the ceiling” after “full throttle” was such a disappointment.
theonlydynasty
I have been saying this for years. Prospects are a perceived value. Hyping them raises their profile, hence the perception. That’s why teams like Bos, NYY, etc hype up their prospects. As much as you guys hate on them, you sure know who they are.
JoeBrady
Some Red Sox are among the worst in BB. They will switch from “We need to extend Sale” to “Sale is too injury-prone to extend” to “Sale is untradeable” to “I can’t believe we gave Sale away” in the same breath.
SportsFan0000
With all the hype surrounding Crochet, I am surprised the White Sox did not insist that Red Sox prospects Anthony or Campbell be included in this deal.
That said, Crochet is a huge injury risk based on his past history.
Crochet has never been “stretched out” to pitch 200+ innings in a full season plus extra in the playoffs.
Wish him well, but if they over work this kid, then I would not be surprised if he makes more visits to the IL.
SportsFan0000
Now, on to Corbin Burnes and Dillon Cease.
Dillon Cease is the most intriguing possible deal to me.
Wondering what AJ Preller has up his sleeve there?
It is never boring in the hot stove league when Preller and the Padres are prowling around for players and blockbuster trade deals.
Sagacity
SportsFan0000 = You make some great points.
Think about what happened in the Crochet deal.
1 – Boston avoided spending money and actually save nearly $50Million by not going for a Burnes and giving away part of the stock pile of good players. What they needed to do was throw only PRETENDERS in the deal like Mayer and Abreu and even Wong if Chicago thought they needed a catcher.
2 – The one need for a SP1 didn’t happen but the front office can claim Crochet is a SP1 despite only ONE YEAR of good performance since 2018. The owners gained huge profits from this deal by avoiding spending on a SP1. This is a Win for them that they can sell to fans as a win when in fact it was a huge loss because of Teel, Meidroth and Montgomery.
So with 5 off season needs of a SP1, SP2, Devers move to DH and a power hitting right handed 3B and a lefty reliever who can double as a closer the Red Sox management can claim TWO of the items are covered now.
With $99 Million available under the CAP they could go buy Burnes but I don’t see that fitting with their strategy. Think CHEAP but sell-able to the public..
I say they sign Buhler to a multi=year deal like he wants and hopefully with opt outs for the Red Sox. His history of injuries should prevent him from getting a high number since the team that pays him will be taking on a high risk. Sound familar? He’s perfect as the SP2 need that was on the to do list. He’s cheap, risky with a high reward if he performs. He has Breslow written all over him.
So that leaves Devers moving to DH. Devers, being the most selfish player in Red Sox history and worst defender, I believe they might compromise and move him from being the 3B Butcher of Boston to the 1B Butcher of Boston so he can continue to feel good about himself and justify his HUGE over pay and I think Cora will push for that because Cora doesn’t support Casas despite all he has proven.
So look for a deal with Seattle that brings a not elite but good SP to Boston for Casas so Devers can take over 1B. This will allow Cora to slot someone he likes at 3B. I wouldn’t be shocked if Campbell gets the first shot at 3B after being Minor League Player of the Year and Story playing SS. This would help justify keeping Story in the mix despite his bad performance numbers for Boston. $23.3 Million makes for some strange choices to minimize the level of embarrassment for mistakes.
So my prediction is the starting line-up will be:
C – Wong
1B – Devers
2B – Grissom
SS – Story
3B – Campbell
LF – Duran
CF – Rafaela
RF – Abreu
DH – Yoshida
When Anthony is ready, I believe Cora will sit Rafaela.
Clearly this line-up is a defensive nightmare at 1B since 1B participates in 3 to 5 times as many plays as a 3B. For those who love Casas (the better than league average defender) you will rue the day when Cora starts thinking. It’s like Meat in Bull Durham. He always hurts the team.
The Cora choice of Devers for 1B should be used as an advertisement for coming to the games. It will be a comedy of errors far surpassing his ineptitude at 3B. The best part is, when he reaches up the line for an errant throw from Story the runner will dislocate his should and he won’t hit the rest of the year. At that point maybe we can finally say “lesson learned this guy simply can’t field” The Red Sox then lose a bunch of games they wouldn’t have it he was DH and it will be like 2019 all over again. AND STILL THEY WON’T FIRE CORA!!!!
dlj0527
As long as his time with Red Sox isn’t Sale 2.0 where first year is best with Red Sox and then he starts getting hurt.
Sagacity
dljo527 = Remember year 1 of Sale was with Farrell that’s why it was fine. Year 2 was Cora and the Cora factor put Sale on the IL when he wasn’t hurt but simply taking a forced rest by Cora. Everything after that, all on Cora except a bike accident that happened while recovering from something Cora caused. In the end, Crochet needs to beware of Cora and how he mishandles pitchers.
Fever Pitch Guy
Sag – I don’t think Cora can be blamed for the broken finger. Hahaha!
Not sure how you feel about Cora, but I really believe he should be fired. He is the biggest problem with the front office right now, he undermines Breslow and makes horrible managerial decisions.
Did you hear Cora demanded Breslow sign Bregman to play second base! The last thing they need is another old overpaid overrated declining player at second base when they’ve got the middle infield covered already between Mayer, Story, Grissom, Rafaela and Campbell. But Cora wants his BFF and he often gets what he wants, we shall see!
Sagacity
Fever Pitch Guy – What broken finger? The line=drive come-backer that hit him? Since Sale didn’t call his own pitches and Cora’s pitching coach sent the call into the catcher, I think there is an argument to some degree it’s on Cora!!!hahaha
Wow. The Bregman story doesn’t surprise me because Cora knows Devers will pout all year if he gets moved. That’s why I say trade him straight up for Arenado. Fixes the clubhouse, takes the defense from the bottom to the top in baseball and you have your right handed power hitter, great glove and shorter obligation with respect to money. I am a bit prejudice because I have an indirect connection to Arenado and Chapman but knowing Arenado’s preparation and work ethic, huge upgrade from Devers.
Your news is scary because nothing shocks me when it comes to the Dominican connection within the Red Sox. No way Cora shouldn’t be in a prison somewhere for helping gamblers win bets through the garbage can scandal. That insider information had to be worth a fortune and those powerful people that benefited have kept Cora in good graces and well informed to provide more insider information to his supporters.
Remember the old saying, Power corrupts and Absolute Power like Cora has corrupts absolutely.
Fever Pitch Guy
Sag – I also heard Sale’s broken finger was because Cora angered him so much that he gave Cora the bird after the pitch. Haha!
Arenado is headed to Houston I heard.
That power saying is one of my favorites, so true!
Bruin1012
Let’s be real this is on ownership and John Henry. It’s well documented that John Henry has an aversion to signing uncomfortable long term contracts for free agent pitchers especially the 30 and over types. Unfortunately for us Red Sox fans other owners seem to understand you have to sign these types of guys especially if you’re in a big market. I highly doubt that ownership will green light an uncomfortable deal for Burnes. They will probably sign someone but it won’t be Burnes perhaps a reunion with Pivetta we will see.
Breslow did what he had to do he identified the biggest issue with Boston and that was the tor need and he correctly realized that ownership wasn’t signing one of the tor free agents so he went out and made the uncomfortable trade to get the guy to front the rotation. He did what ownership wasn’t willing to do. Ownership getting involved in the Soto sweepstakes instead of putting the full court press on Fried and Burnes cost Boston there future catcher and the high upside play of Montgomery. Ownership is pathetic right now and I doubt they even go over the lux tax this season. It’s time for Red Sox fans to show displeasure with there wallets stop going to Fenway this season maybe if attendance drops enough they will start to spend again and act like a big market club.
all in the suit that you wear
Bruin: I’m not sure it’s that drastic. The Red Sox offered 7 years/$190M for Fried. So, they are willing to spend, but it looks like they are not willing to make offers that they think are crazy. I think Burnes and Fried were likely waiting for Soto to sign and the losers throw their Soto money at them. Did Fried really deserve the largest contract ever given to a LHP? I doubt it.
Sagacity
All = Let me ask – Are the offers crazy or are they creating an image by low=balling all the excellent all-star players? That’s the way it looks to me. i’ve said this before, it’s the old toss your credit card onto the table after you know the bill has already been paid. Great gesture but completely insincere.
Fried deserved the money. His performance completely backs it up in this marketplace.
I know you support ownership but it’s pretty clear they don’t support the team like they used to. Maybe it takes a strong GM like Dombrowski to get the necessary money out of the owners to win or maybe ownership just figured 4 rings is enough and keeping pace with the Yankees is no longer worthwhile. I have no idea why things changed but at some point you are going to have to accept that they have. Don’t slow down how much you root for them, just realize there is no Santa Claus who will spend money on quality free agents.
all in the suit that you wear
I don’t think they are creating a bad image when they are finalists for free agents such as Soto and Fried. Did a 30 year old Fried really deserve the largest contract ever given to a LHP? I don’t think so.
Sagacity
Bruin1012 – You made some excellent points about ownership. I think the aspect of the Crochet deal wasn’t that he was saving face, he was saving money. The team hasn’t signed great players for a long time now. They don’t seem to be ready to spend over $20Millionish for an AAV so they got a guy below their threshold, mortgaged the future by giving up three studs and can now suggest they are going to do something with $99Million they are under the CAP but they won’t, just like the last 5 years.
There will be no full court press, there will be a huge gap between their payroll and the CAP like you said. Our anger over that trade is very much in sync. My belief is you can’t hurt the ownership much with ticket sales because there are clearly other sources of income not disclosed by Forbes (probably off limits to Forbes) that keep the real profits unknown. If profits go down a bit, you have an opportunity cost but you are still making a ton of money. I don’t see a solution that will force ownership to do anything and that pisses me off even more.
I am curious to see if big money like Devers will ever be spent on a non Dominican player. To me, racism against the black players actually turns out to be a bias toward Dominican players thanks to Cora. My theory is Cora made some people who heavily influence the owners some serious money during the Astros scandal by providing insider information that created a loyalty to Cora. That’s why he was hired back because of the pressure applied by the people that impact Henry’s and the owners other businesses. Everything makes sense if you put a powerful person in Cora’s corner. That’s why offering Soto an obscene amount of money was permitted when it goes against everything ownership has done since they fired Dombrowski.
I don’t see this getting better, especially when a guy like Cora who has demonstrated twice that we know of that he has no integrity. Who is to say what actions on his part have made his supporters a ton of money during the regular season. As long as that’s true, he’s not going away any time soon. The money train to his supporters will keep him in work in the Red Sox organization. That’s why I’ve stopped suggesting to fire him because I realized the only way he could be there was under nefarious circumstances with very powerful people.
I’m back to simply rooting for the players and hoping for wins despite Cora and all the corruption within the Red Sox organization.
MLBTR needs to hire editors
“Meanwhile” has to START the sentence. It’s not supposed to come in the middle, separated by commas. How do you guys mess this up twice?