Starting pitching has been a priority for the Red Sox this winter, and the club has actively addressed that need by trading for Garrett Crochet and signing both Walker Buehler and Patrick Sandoval. Several other starters have been on Boston’s radar throughout the offseason, including some talks with the Pirates about right-hander Jared Jones during the Winter Meetings, according to the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier.
The depth of the negotiations aren’t known, or whether Boston’s interest was perhaps anything more than a due-diligence check-in just in case the Crochet trade didn’t come together. In an example of how teams are constantly following multiple paths at once during an offseason, Speier notes that the Red Sox were also showing interest in the Mariners’ Luis Castillo as a trade target along with Jones and Crochet, and also speaking with such free agents as Buehler, Nathan Eovaldi, and Nick Pivetta.
Despite their rotation additions to date, it can probably be assumed that the Red Sox would still be interested in acquiring Jones, simply because every team would love to have a controllable, 23-year-old pitcher coming off an impressive rookie season. Reports from earlier this month indicated that Pittsburgh was (somewhat surprisingly) open to the idea of at least hearing offers for Jones, though that was before the Pirates dealt from their rotation depth by moving Luis Ortiz to the Guardians for Spencer Horwitz.
Heading into the winter, it was widely assumed that the Pirates would swing such a pitching-for-hitting trade, given the team’s need for offense and its number of available pitchers. Even with Ortiz now in Cleveland, the Buccos still have a projected rotation of Jones, Paul Skenes, Mitch Keller, Bailey Falter, and Johan Oviedo, plus several highly-touted prospects in the minors who are knocking on the door for their MLB debuts.
Whether or not the Pirates would be willing to further deal from the pitching ranks remains to be seen, and in Jones’ case, it would assuredly take a massive offer for Pittsburgh to even consider moving the right-hander. As it relates to the Red Sox in particular, the Pirates would be justified in asking for any of Jarren Duran, Triston Casas, or at least one of Boston’s “big three” prospects (Roman Anthony, Marcelo Mayer, Kristian Campbell) in return for Jones.
Casas’ name was already floated in talks with the Mariners about Seattle’s cadre of young starters, while Anthony, Mayer, and Campbell are thought to be all but untouchable in trade discussions. Speier writes that none of that minor league trio was ever offered to the White Sox for Crochet, and “the White Sox understood the Red Sox weren’t going to discuss” those players. However, it should be noted that the Big Three was initially a Big Four, but Kyle Teel ended up being the prospect sent to Chicago as the headliner of the Crochet trade package.
A blockbuster swap of young talent between the Pirates and Red Sox shouldn’t be ruled out entirely, given how a deal would neatly address the twin needs of both clubs. That being said, even if Skenes might be the only entirely untouchable Pirates pitcher in trade talks, it can be assumed that Pittsburgh would explore moving any of its other arms before looking to deal Jones. If the Pirates were considering a trade from closer to the top of their rotation, moving Keller and the $69.5MM remaining on his contract over the next four seasons would seem like the preferred option for the ever budget-conscious Bucs.
Jones or nothing! Offer Wyler, Crawford and something else! Or Casas and something
Casas for Jones
Hell no
Mayer and some other lower prospects for jones
It would be nice for the Sox to keep him but Rafaela is going to stay in the infield
I have a sneaking suspicion that this could turn out to be a Matt Harvey/ Noah syndergard vs. Jacob degrom situation. You had to big personality, quasi celebrities who’s star shone bright but fades away relatively quickly. But in the end degrom proved to be the best of them all. Skenes looks fantastic now and reminds me a lot of Harvey. His pitching arsenal is quite similar, he’s heavily reliant on his fastball and his secondary pitches are slightly above avg. although I do give the slight edge to skenes on his secondary pitches. However both are/where mainly 2 pitch pitchers. And both have a quirky awkward personality but seem to enjoy the celebrity status the game brings. And jones reminds me of degrom he’s quite, reserved and his pitch mix is comparable to degroms at this stage of his career. Degrom added a wicked change up which I think jones has the potential to add. Also the hair…
Rafaela could be a Gold Glove caliber Center Fielder so it’s not a given that he stays in the Infield
Cherington will want a major league ready player if he decides to trade from the pitching depth
Trade sounds like it’s long gone not happening for Boston.
Skenes has a lot of elite pitches and can attack multiple ways. His fastball can still be significantly improved. Usage can be changed. Extension to be increased. He’s so elite you don’t want to mess with him but if need be there’s a lot you can do to adjust if need be.
It’s scary how good he already is. I mean he isn’t even throwing the football slider yet! It’s over when he adds that!
his slurve is hardly above average
Did you seriously compare skenes to Harvey
Fan-El Chapo should have been comparing him to DeGrom.
You Are forgetting how good peak Harvey was, look at his peak numbers. guy had a wipeout slider and an explosive fastball with run. I don’t think that’s it’s a bad comparison at all
I say have Rafeala, Duran, and Anthony in the outfield
Trade Abreu and Casas for Jones and a prospect
Move Mayer into short….put Story on 3rd and move Devers to first…Grissom plays second…That would make a decent team if healthy….
Grissom for now but probably Campbell at some point
I really want to keep Casas, Duran, Campbell and Anthony. None of them should be traded just because the Red Sox are too cheap to pay for high quality pitchers.
Duran, Campbell and Anthony are the three I want to keep. Casas and his Agents unwillingness to work on an extension makes him expendable, in my opinion, if the Red Sox can get equal value in return or trade Casas for lesser return if the Sox can salary dump Yoshida.
Pittsburgh is not trading Jones for anything but a haul back such as Mayer AND Casas. I just don’t see a trade. For the Red Sox to call Pittsburgh, it’s like them calling the Sox and asking about Campbell. The one who could be moved that no one is talking about is Ceddane.
Dewey – Nobody is taking Rafaela without the Red Sox eating a huge amount of that albatross contract.
I hope that is sarcasm I’m reading here buddy…
Fever, it’s way too early to call the contract bad. His glove is as good as it gets and he only needs to learn discipline along with hitting a fastball. He is not on my view underwater. That said, it’s the risk of signing players early.
Not sure what you mean Rsox. A) No one is trading a 23 year old with a MLB fast all unless a true haul is coming back. Both Casas and Mayer have high ceilings but both have also not been healthy. Sox would not make the trade but I don’t see Pittsburgh doing it for just one of them.
Dewey – Rafaela has batted in the heart of the order and NEVER got pitched around before 2024 because his previous managers knew what they were doing.
He needs to train in the off season on how to deal with being treated like crap by Cora and being stuck in the part of the order where there are seldom base runners. The amazing part about what he did in 2024 is that he out produced Abreu who most frequently batted 2nd.
He’ll make adjustments to his hitting but it sucks that he has to be so disrespected by his idiot manager. Also, he’s so much better in the outfield than Abreu (check the stats not the BS metrics) that he should be the Right Fielder going forward so Duran can stay in Center Field until Anthony arrives then he can go to Center and Duran can go to LF.
Campbell should start at 3B or SS and move Story to 3B. Without either of those moves, Boston is out of the hunt for a playoff spot.
Rsox – Too many similarities to Myles Straw, hopefully Rafaela can mature and improve though. I’m rooting for him, but like Sag said it doesn’t help having an awful manager and hitting coach.
Dewey – I get the homerism but facts are facts. As Bill would say, you are what your numbers (and GG voting) says you are.
How bad has he been at the plate?
Tied for THE WORST chase rate in MLB since records began being kept in 2002.
And the LOWEST walk percentage in MLB since 2018.
There’s much improvement needed to justify his versatility keeping him in the lineup.
Yea I’m not trading Casas he still has 4 years of control.
I would trade Abreu if something can be done possibly in a package for Chandler. I doubt that Pittsburg is trading Jones. I’m confident the Roman Empire is starting very soon in 2025 maybe even out of spring training. Abreu is expendable despite having a very good rookie season. I think Breslow will explore what he can get for Abreu.
And how many years do you think Jones has?
That was mostly in response to he won’t sign an extension not in the Jared Jones part. If Pittsburg would trade Jared Jones straight up for Casas it would make sense. Mayer and Casas is crazy talk.
Bruin, I’m not suggesting Boston do that; only what I believe Pittsburgh would insist on back.
If Cherington was willing to give up Jones for Casas he should not be in a FO anymore.
Christian Walker is a better 1B than Eovaldi or Manaea are as a pitcher but the latter two are compensated better. 5 years of Jones for 4 of Casas wouldve been extremely dumb.
Bruin – I agree with all that. The Sox are obsessed with a RHOF so Abreu is the odd man out.
I would only trade Abreu if they sign an a RHOF to a multi-year deal. The past 4 years they’ve cycled through Hunter Renfroe, Tommy Pham, Adam Duvall, and Tyler O’Neill trying to fill that spot and if it’s going to be another one year and out player they should keep Abreu
He clearly wasn’t or he would have.
hey Einstein, Pittsburgh is spelled with an H
Rsox – My preference would be an ADA outfield with Rafaela mostly playing infield and CF only when facing LHP.
FPG I’m not even going there I just think Anthony will be the right fielder so Abreu is expendable.
Bruin – Is it because you don’t feel Roman can play LF or CF?
He’s played 6X more in CF than RF, and about the same in LF as in RF.
I’d rather go with the guy who has already mastered RF in Fenway.
They need a righty thumper. First choice to me is at third to improve defense. The team will be lucky to win with Devers at third. As great a hitter as he is, the infield defense has to improve.
FPG I think he can play any outfield position. I just like Duran in either left or center and Rafaela in center leaving right for Anthony. I do believe Anthony could play any position in the outfield though.
Fever Pitch Guy –
First, no outfield is like Fenway so where a guy plays in the minors before coming to Fenway is irrelevant. Each individual outfield spot is unique enough that it must be learned.
Duran struggled at first in Center field as did Bradley. Heck Evans struggled in right field at first. Mookie might be the only guy I can’t remember struggling in each of the outfield spots since the 60s.
Second, there are two speedsters with great gloves and that’s Duran and Rafaela. Rafaela has the stronger arm. Anthony played CF but his build and skills suggest a corner outfield spot so he is well suited for right field but since only half the games are in Fenway, he would be perfectly suited for left field too.
Three, You constantly insult Rafaela because you can’t comprehend what it might be like to be well respected and then run into Cora and get no respect because you are from the wrong country. He hit in the heart of the batting order and was the best player on the team all throughout the minors and then he comes up and hits in the mid .400s in August of 2023 and Cora pulls him from the top of the order and he hits like crap against the AL East best pitchers while Abreu is being benched against really tough lefties and 2024 becomes a lesson in humility for Rafaela thanks to Cora.
It takes a whole different mind set to be forced to hit 9th after batting in a top 3 spot your whole career. Rafaela struggled with the demotion but he still proved he is incredibly productive by being 3rd in almost every offensive category while batting out of the 9th hole.
Rafaela will either adjust like Mookie did and Duran did or he’ll be gone by the end of 2025 which would be a shame but typical of Cora the most biased manager in baseball.
Story is a slug so far and doesn’t deserve the respect he gets over the younger players. I believe either Campbell or Rafaela should be given SS position and Story should have to earn it away from them.. With Cora, I’m guessing Story will get the nod despite doing nothing for 3 years. The team isn’t winning in 2025 so start assembling the future team now and get the young players experience. Story’s absurd pay is a sunk cost and at this point try to play him enough to raise his market value to dump him. He’s not part of the future.
Mayer has proven to be injury prone and makes errors almost as often as Devers did in the minors. Apparently based on how he “looks” he’s a great player but his stats simply don’t reflect that. He’s trending towards being the next Jeter Downs and it would be incredibly smart to move him as this current value than his value at the end of 2025.
Teel being traded was a flat out mistake. He was too unique to trade. Montgomery hadn’t proven himself like Teel but he should have gone several places higher in the draft so he was a huge over pay like Teel. Even the guy the front office gives no notice to, Meidroth, has a higher value than he was sold for. If the farm system players had been ranked on skill not hype it would have been Campbell, Anthony, Teel, Montgomery, Meidroth as the top 5. Trading away 3 of the top five instead of Mayer, Bleis and Arias makes absolutely not sense. Is the secret already out about Mayer or is the front office still imagining things with him?
FYI….The highly lauded farm system now has TWO quality players left to graduate in the next several years because Breslow picked the wrong guys.
A quite comparison…… Trading Teel Montgomery and Meidroth for Crochet instead of Mayer, Bleis and Arias would be like trading Bogaerts, Benny and Duran for Sale. Dombrowski gave up pretenders for Sale and Breslow wasn’t savvy enough to know who the pretenders are. He made a horrendous trade that will hurt Boston for years because in two years if Crochet is actually good, he’ll be gone just like Teel, Montgomery and Meidroth.
That’s why you don’t have Jones. Can’t get a good mlb pitcher with 5 years left hugging all your best talent.
Fever I don’t think Breslow is trading Mayer either. Mayer’s upside is just too high. I know some people are down on him but he really had a solid year offensively. Feels like this season is just the tip of the iceberg so much talent but he has to stay healthy.
I wouldn’t lose any sleep if the sox traded Jarren Duran tomorrow. Sell high on the guy who’s already late 20s and really has had one great year under his belt.
He’s a speed guy so he’s at his peak right now. Why not get a great starting pitcher in exchange?
There’s already too many outfielders on the roster and one or two are definitely capable of playing a good centerfield. I’m almost hoping they trade Duran this winter. You have to admit that last year was the first he wasn’t a knucklehead in the field as well.
Gary Duran hit pretty well in 2023 as well. The guy can hit he may not be the guy he was in 2024 but Boston has him controlled for four more seasons. He’s very likely to be a top 25-30 player in baseball with his hit, run, field combination. I don’t like the thought of trading my igniter he’s a guy I’m loathe to move.
Bruin – Agreed, he’s the first real leadoff guy since Ellsbury/Damon. I say keep him for at least 3 more years.
BTW he’s not going to FSG Fest, hope it’s not a sign.
Henry isn’t going either ..
Dewey – Ownership stopped going after getting booed and heckled 2 years ago.
As they say, you reap what you sow.
Gary – Monty was traded, if Duran gets traded too then the only competent outfielders left are Abreu and Anthony. And who would bat leadoff? They’ve got nobody.
Move Ceddanne Rafaela to center. Anthony should be ready. Abrue in right, Yoshida plays left, Ref off the bench.
That’s a pretty full outfield plus I think they’re looking for a right handed bat to add. Could be Bregman or it could be another dude to play on the grass so Yoshida can DH.
Wouldn’t miss Duran at all especially if you pick up a great starting pitcher in exchange for him. I think he’s a luxury that you need to cash in on.
Yoshida, with that speed… I still love him as a hitter but he needs to go so Devers can be the DH.
Yes, Dewey. I’d love to move Yoshida but while he’s on the team, I guess he’s in left and DHing. You have to count him as one of the outfielders available on the roster especially when answering fever pitch above. Cash in on Duran now.
Oh joy. Ben will just give him away to them because he has a bias towards the prospects he drafted.
Get another Bryan Reynolds type and replace Jones w Bubba.
Just trade bubba for a equal blue chipper
I don’t he’s going anywhere
Yeah I know saying what
The depth of the negotiations aren’t known.
Hard hitting journalism.
Can we get more details on what’s for dinner? I’m off to church and I’m curious.
I think your expectations for a site with mlb rumors in the name might be a bit high.
Not to mention it’s Christmas Eve.
People act like weirdos during the holidays. Not my favorite time of year.
You included
Bit – Yes people act nice during the holidays, I can see how you think that’s weird though.
Church was very nice. Clams for dinner. I think we will get takeout somewhere. Then back to the hotel. Ah, Christmas with no place to stay.
Hayzee – Merry Christmas! Midnight service is much better, or at least late enough for the lights to be turned off.
Now this is a guy i would love to get if the price is right. Time to unload Yoshida somewhere to at least get one deal off the books
No talk of Paul Skenes?
Yes. For Yoshida, one for one. Breslow said no…
Exactly. Thank you for putting this into its proper perspective.
Casas for jones is fair
Big 3 or jarren would be absurd
Might be fair but the Pirates would want substantially more. Like Casas + Mayer.
Casas has potential. Has a floor. Nice player. Not close to Jones value. Pirates already got their 1b. For 6 years. Combine with Reynolds he’s a all star. All it cost them was 3 backend starters 2 still a couple years out. Lowe went for a reliever. Naylor for a failed prospect and comp b. 12m got you Goldschmidt Santana. No reason to trade Jones for a 1b.
Horwitz? Seriously? They got their 1st baseman and you’re combining him with Reynolds at 1st?
Pure genius
So when Reynolds plays 1st you have two holes in the outfield corners and a work in progress in center. I don’t know of many beer league softball teams that have your kind of confidence
Only option. They aren’t trading real players for a 1b. And look at the comments. Fans don’t want to trade keller jones bubba ot anyone that has value. Didn’t even want to trade Ortiz. So trading for a 1b is off the table. Only other way is to sign one. Well look what they cost other teams. Imagine would it would take to get them to sign with the biggest loser team in baseball. So free agents not happening. It’s either Horowitz or Rowdy. I ask fans to give me a name every year. 90 percent of them don’t. The other 10 percent give me fantasy names. Here’s your choices Horowitz Rowdy Joe Rizzo. Maybe Bell but he’s a dh so better off with Rowdy Rizzo.
No it isn’t, interference to Casas. Big market teams try to take others to the cleaners. Pirates would want Duran which is too much, and Boston wouldn’t want to part with elite young talent so it’s a waste of time. Or at least it should be. Cheap pitching is the best currency to have.
Jones has way more value than Casas. Jones has an extra year of control for one thing. More importantly in terms of reading their respective markets every starting pitcher free agent is being signed well above general assumptions whereas first baseman are shuffling around the league in underwhelming trade packages and relatively modest free agent contracts.
Anyone questioning Jones value hasn’t been following free agency. Do you have a arm? Can it throw a baseball? Here’s 20 some million for you.
I feel like the Mariners would only trade Luis Castillo if they were essentially trading Luis Castillo for Pete Alonso. That trade would definitely be worth it. Pete Alonso could be another Nelson Cruz in Seattle.
Princess, Seattle will not pay for Alonso (which is all it would take). Boston wanted one of their younger pitchers, which is why Casas wasn’t traded. He has the power that would still play in Seattle.
I think this deal would have made more sense before the moves both teams have made recently.
The Red Sox have left handed hitting outfielders and that’s what the Pirates need. But I don’t think the Red Sox need much from the Pirates at this point. Perhaps Bello and Abreu for Jones?
D you think before you post garbage like this…. Bello is signed for a very reasonable contract…. and you think Abreu and Bello is a good offer for Jones…. SMH…. try again.
Abreu and Crawford or Abreu and Fitts make more sense.
Try again lol. Have another drink champ. Like I said earlier people acting like weirdos during the holidays.
BITA – I would have offered PIttsburgh Mayers, Abreu and Yoshida for Jared Jones. And I would have paid $9Million of Yoshida’s $18Million contract in 2024.
Would you have taken that offer?
Yoshida has big time negative value even with the Red Sox paying 9 million.
Do you mean Marcelo Mayer? That might be too much for the Red Sox to give up. Close though.
Jones, Bednar and Hayes for Tork, Jung and a young pitcher or two not named Jobe.
Jones could pull that package all by himself, and while I’ll acknowledge that Hayes value is questionable, you’re drastically underestimating Bednar based on one bad year.
Sure that might be a little light. Sounds like Pittsburgh would like to ship out Hayes so him and Tork are essentially a 1 for 1 (another Pitts fan didn’t have a good teport on Hayes, but some Tigers fans feel the same about Tork). Jung is a top 100 prospect and the Tigers have TONS of highly rated pitchers like Jaden Hamm so that is getting close for Jones…add in another lower end pitcher or hitter. Bednar is a good pitcher coming off a bad year so don’t overvalue him….Tigers have some solid young relief prospects coming up who would be good replacements. Pretty sure they could work something out. It would address some of the Tigers needs but would it address Pittsburghs needs? You’d know better than I do if you are a Pittsburgh fan. Thanks for the chat dude. Cheers
Tork has little value. Really zero value unless you can out develop Detroit. If he was making real arbitration $ he would have been non tendered. I wouldn’t trade Bednar for him, way more valuable. Hayes I would if his back is toast I would trade him for anyone just to get out of contract.
Jung swing is perfect for pnc but they already traded for a 1b and have him for a long time. Jung isn’t close to Jones value.
lol.Good thing ^Al Avila got fired
You’re out of your mind.
Yes. But we were talking about baseball.
I would have traded Henry Davis/Rodriguez and a fringe prospect for him but they are gonna try Horowitz at first. Unless they play him at second and Nick G at short.
I do not want to trade Jared Jones. Especially for Tork who I do like but is a huge question mark.
Horowitz looked sharp with Toronto. I like that pickup. I really don’t know why they would look at reading Jones. They shouldn’t except for a massive overpay.
They aren’t looking to trading Jones. Cherington just likes to trade and other gms know he will listen on anyone so he gets a lot calls. If he can get fair value and it makes the team better he will trade him. With Jones value so high it’s unlikely a team trades away that amount.
Jones is highly overrated like Parker
and you’re poorly educated like about 70 million other Americans
Who is Parker??
Dave Parker
The person I replied above you, holecamel35 has a gripe with Parker’s induction into the HOF.
He’s like a broken record
Tiki does not like Dave Parker’s selection into the HOF.
They are not going to Jared.
Casas and Durran are about to start getting expensive in Arbitration, and Pittsburgh likes cheaper players. If they move Jones (they shouldn’t & won’t) they’d be looking for a longer windows of cost control, I’d think.
Or Casas and Durran and $$$ for Jones…but Boston wouldn’t ship both and cash. And with all the other SP the Sawx added, it seems pretty unlikely that Boston would still make the trade.
Jackson Merrill for Jones is closer to what Pittsburgh would/should want/aim-for.
Casas and Durran have 4 years of control each thats plenty for even the Pirates. But they don’t need Casas anymore and Durran was very unlikely to be traded.
Ah, thought they were each 3 years left. That does change the equation. I think that’s a deal both sides should like.
So people want to give up very good major league players or our top prospects for a pitcher who had a 4.15 era last year and a 4.33 career minor era. While he has the stuff that is to high a price. Deal Yoshida eat some of the contract and include a low level prospect or two
Some people realize era is pretty worthless and also realize that career minor league era is somehow even more worthless.
Top ten MLB pitchers with lowest eras went 151-65.
I know that wins are absolutely useless too but there seems to be a correlation.
It is a 699 win %,or a team winning 113 games during a year.
They come from the best teams but it is amazing to me that a useless stat leads to the most wins in ML history.
Just sayin.
Completely meaningless. Obviously if you have a low era you are most likely to have a lot of wins unless you are deGrom Mets. Prime Verlander Kershaw Cole etc are usually going to have a low era that will usually result in wins. So yeah someone healthy in their prime who always pitches to a low era you can use era to evaluate them and will mostly be right.
Who had the lowest era and most wins in baseball last year? Guy hasn’t had a full season era under 4 since 2018. Everyone said he was toast. Well everyone but the greatest baseball mind in the universe.
You do remember pirates fans wanting to give up on Mitch Keller and his 6 something era after 3 mlb seasons. Well not every pirate fan.
The jury is still out on Keller. His streaks of ineffectiveness where he gets hammered should be considered troubling. Periods where his fastball can’t get off Main Street or he loses the feel of his spin pitches and can’t spot them
Bednar had the same troubles last year
Let’s see if their pitching gurus can right them
Keller just needs a real strength and conditioning coach instead of whoever Cherington found at planet fitness.
Make GM’s wear body cam like the police so we can hear ALL proposals. And make them do it in real-time, so we can all adequately freak out
Jones & Bubba more than likely going nowhere. Keller maybe I believe he has 4 more years remaining at reasonable cost putting Abreu & someone else in the deal
I love Jones but I always fear the durability of smaller-framed power pitchers. A guy like Skenes has a big body behind his fastball. Jared Jones has much less torso-leverage behind that same pitch, resulting in more strain on other parts of his physique.
We already have an early sample of his injury-proness. For this reason I’d be open to the right trade.
In Jones’ defense, he had never pitched as many innings as he did last year when he hurt his elbow
They may have brought him along too quickly
Pittsburg fans cried over losing Contreras Hernandez Ortiz. Don’t think they can handle Jones. I have the same fear about Jones and other teams as well. Hence why he hasn’t been traded and I would lean he won’t be at least this year. Will gladly tell fans I’m sure glad we kept this runt!!!!
The Pirates are the most pathetic team in MLB. They have one thing going for them: good, young starting pitching
Leave it to them to give away one and shop two others before they can even get established
Carpetbagger of an owner who laughs all the way to the bank
Garbage franchise
Nothing burgers likely. Cherington is well known in baseball to listen on anyone and everyone so it should come as no surprise he gets calls on anyone and everyone. He has the pitching available in minors to trade Keller Jones and be just fine. For a winning trade he should do so. Doubt he gets a good enough offer. The questions he has about them other teams will have as well. And they are so valuable teams won’t want to pay the price. Him listening is a good thing. No reason to hate that. He did same thing on Reynolds and Bednar. Probably should have traded them, at least Bednar. But didn’t. So I won’t be betting on him trading these guys now.
Yes, the minors are loaded with pitching depth. But trading Jones or Keller after giving Ortiz away amounts taking another two steps backwards to take one step forward
Dream, where does it end?
It’s ridiculous now and stubacca (below) asks the million dollar question and baseball fan would ponder, and one every Pirates fan knows the answer to;
Because the Pirates have a habit of giving away players for nothing.
I hope you’re right about “listening”
Merry Christmas, my friend
Ortiz is nothing. See ya. Addition by subtraction. You always ask where are the runs coming from? Right? That’s exactly why Ortiz is nothing. Pirates need guys like Skenes Keller Bubba hopefully. Ortiz ok for some teams but not Pittsburg. Ortiz was fine last year but lucky. That luck will run out. Now Cleveland has real coaches so they might make him legit. Doesn’t matter what they do with him.
Theoretically they could sign a starter as good or bit better than Ortiz for under 15m. Even under 10m. Santana Goldschmidt would have cost 15m if they were even willing to come to Pittsburg. Naylor cost a comp pick which is extremely important to Pittsburg and a failed late 1st round pick arm. Better return than we gave Cleveland for Horowitz and he has 5 or 6 years vs 1 of Naylor. Lowe cost a reliever that we don’t have. So basically it’s make that trade or sign Bell or Rizzo. It’s getting ugly at 1b. Trade looks more appealing now that I seen the complete picture. Unless you want Rowdy back.
Bubba Ashcraft Harrington all ready for mlb look. Burrows Solometo as well but I have more ?’s about them. These guys traded to Cleveland highly likely weren’t going to make it in Pittsburgh. Like you have to have elite talent to make it in Pittsburgh. Pitching development is better than hitting but that isn’t anything to brag about. Like Jared Jones wasn’t going to be this good. They changed his fastball grip and that added 7 inches of movement to his fastball. And when I say they it wasn’t Pirates coaching. They is his friend and teammate Harrington. Like Davis going to drive line, Rowdy calling his childhood coach, Gonzales building his own hitting center and working out with a player from another team, you pretty much have to develop yourself in Pittsburgh unless you hit the genetic lottery.
It’s amusing that Red Sox fans think the Pirates will trade Jones if everyone worth trading him for is off limits.
Gotta give up value to get value.
Paul-New may have a point.I also think that they kept him out as long as possible to limit his innings
In my opinion we do not have enough data to figure out how good this pitcher will be.
If they could have received two or three bona fide good young AAA and ML hitters it would have been a good trade of him for two and him and Suwinski or Davis for three.
Anytime you can trade with Cherington you should do it. He got absolutely fleeced in the Ortiz deal.
He dumped his trash. It was a lot of trash. Painful to throw out. But certainly not fleeced. Odds of his awful development staff developing those pitchers was slim. In any round 2 3 4 he could draft those same exact players in any year. Don’t believe me? Take a look at farm system rankings. If he could develop those types the rankings wouldn’t be where they are.
We must have been watching two different guys from early August to close. Ortiz was their number 2. Easily. Not sure why you’re calling him “trash”. The kid worked hard to get his shot and other than the Dbscks game, excelled.
But time will tell
You’re echoing others here with the Hope Express. Oviedo. Bubba. Harrington Others
To me, you don’t detract from one of your few strengths. If the rebuild is truly over, why are you already taking a pick axe to the foundation that is starting pitching?
He’s a backend starter. Pirates have signed a guy as good as him or better every year 8 million or less. Sometimes a lot less.
Ortiz 3.32 era. But that’s the final result from luck. If you remove luck and use what his era should be well it’s a full run higher. That’s weak #4 strong #5. Trash to Pirates who can just find that for 10m or less. Have it already coming back in Ortiz. And have 3 mlb ready prospects who are better. And if break down his era by months his highest was August and 2nd highest September so his results didn’t get better. I think we might have another Triolo leg kick here.
Now Cleveland is an entire different story. If they get Ortiz to throw as hard and have his stuff back to where it used to be he is a legit 3 era pitcher. Wasn’t happening in Pittsburgh. They even admitted that because you wouldn’t trade that guy for a platoon 1b. So desperate they brought in a tired old dude to be new assistant pitching coach.
It would be a huge mistake by the pirates if they trade Jones
Would actually be great. Bubba who should be better will replace him. Ashcraft may be as good. Same with Harrington. Most people like era well it was 4 something. Pirates can find that for cheap see Anderson Quintana Perez Velazquez. Oviedo is coming back. They have pitchers. They need a bat. Outfield is glaring hole. Bats play every day. Pitchers once a week. Jones ain’t a big guy. And 1 arm injury at wrong time takes away 2 years.
I believe it’s old news. Jones Keller Falter Ortiz were all trade options. Cherington liked the option of filling 1b by trading the weakest least need pitcher. Not nearly as motivated to trade them now because he already made his one trade from position of strength.
You’re the guy who has continually carped that the rebuild is over. Exactly how is that so when you’re already talking about getting rid of promising pitchers? Just when does the rebuild start to show dividends?
It’s like double talk
How is the rebuild considered effective when your 3rd baseman is a weak hitting dude who plays like he’d rather be elsewhere? When shortstop is still a mystery. When your center fielder is a work in progress and you have holes in RF and 1B. Now you’re already rebuilding your starting staff. You traded one guy and are floating one or two others
Just where does it all end here? Just when can fans see some permanence in the roster and salute the idea of a competitive team?
Rebuild is over. What is a rebuild? You trade away all soon to be free agents. Checkmark. You lose 100 games so you can get top 5 draft picks. Checkmark. You start filling holes with free agents because rebuild is over and you are now trying to contend. Checkmark. You buy at trade deadline instead of sell. Checkmark. Rebuild is certainly over and it was a failure. They are contending right now! If Cherington gets fired the new gm will contend in 2026 because the rebuild is over and can’t be another rebuild yet. 2027 2028 they can do another rebuild if new gm can’t salvage this mess. Worst scenario Cherington has a winning record and they keep him. Attempt to contend with the same failure gm. Cherington did everything he could to get fired. Nutting just didn’t want to pay 2 gms again or didn’t think he could find anyone better to take the job.
You’re a era guy. Jones Keller both 4 something. That’s not good. They are just guys. Easily replaced guy in Keller. He will make 20 some million. 20 some million you can buy a 3 era guy. It’s irrelevant to trade them. They aren’t core key pieces. Just guys.
You are just a fan of a loser team. With a owner who knows his fans will accept any garbage product and will continue giving him their $.
Brewers last year traded a guy named Burnes. Guess you never heard of him but trust me he was better than anything Keller Jones could ever dream of being. So yes the Brewers rebuilded if rebuilding means winning the division.
Yankees were in similar spot last year as Pirates. They had pitching depth but no outfielder. They traded a guy named King for a outfielder. Again a whole heck of lot better than these pirates 4 something era guys. Their rebuild failed though as they didn’t win the world series.
We can’t trade our 4 something era guys! Our owner president gm manager are so so awful that 4 something era guys are key core pieces!!!!! Lol
I can go on all day. All night lol. Tampa went to world series. Traded a guy named Snell. Hint just like Burnes King he isn’t a trash 4 something era guy. Made playoffs 3 years in row after trading him including a 99 and 100 win season.
You are just brainwashed into accepting a garbage product. Real teams trade real players all the time. Keller Jones are absolutely nothing. Just good guys to have. Nothing elite core key untradable about them. Ortiz is less than nothing. Don’t know how that’s possible but ifnit that’s what Ortiz is.
Casas and Mayer are probably the starting point IMO. He would not come cheap and Duran makes no sense for the pirates. He’d get expensive fast.
Put down the phone Cherington. Pirates fans have spoken. They would rather start Palacios Olivares Joe than trade a 4 something era for a all star outfielder!!!! LOL!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!
#JackIsBack