The Pirates checked an item off their offseason to-do list when they acquired Spencer Horwitz in hopes that he can serve as a long-term option at first base. They’re still not done hunting for bats, however, as Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports within a broad-reaching piece on several Winter Meetings takeaways that the team is looking for a corner outfielder, with a likely preference to operate on the trade market. The Bucs will also likely be in the market for a low-cost reliever or two, Hiles adds.
Corner outfield help isn’t a new need for the Pirates. They sought to address the issue with their deadline acquisition of Bryan De La Cruz from the Marlins, but he turned in a disastrous .200/.220/.294 slash in 44 games with Pittsburgh following the trade. The Pirates chose not to double down on an acquisition they’d come to regret, non-tendering De La Cruz rather than paying him a projected $4MM salary in arbitration (courtesy of MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz).
With De La Cruz now on the open market, the Pirates’ outfield alignment includes Bryan Reynolds in left and converted shortstop Oneil Cruz in center field. Right field options include Joshua Palacios, Billy Cook and Jack Suwinski, the latter of whom looked to have broken out as a key bat for the Pirates in 2023 before struggling through a disastrous 2024 season (.182/.264/.324 in 277 plate appearances). There’s been some talk of Reynolds logging some reps at first base (link via Alex Stumpf of MLB.com), but the Horwitz trade pretty clearly indicates that’s at best a backup plan for the time being.
Cruz will be getting the lion’s share of reps in center field. Reynolds can technically play either corner, though his once-premium range has eroded substantially. Reynolds still posted better-than-average sprint speed in 2024, per Statcast, but his reaction times and jumps in the outfield graded quite poorly. As recently as 2021, Statcast credited Reynolds with 98th-percentile range in the outfield; in 2024, he was at the very bottom of the league, in the first percentile. His arm strength on his outfield throws actually ticked back up after a down year in 2023, but he’ll need to make some adjustments regardless of which corner he roams (though it’ll presumably be left, based on recent usage).
There are a handful of known and obvious corner outfield trade candidates on the market. Pittsburgh was never going to pony up for Kyle Tucker, who just went to the Cubs, as ownership wouldn’t be willing to spend the necessary money to keep him long term. But names like Taylor Ward (a deadline target for the Bucs), Wilyer Abreu, Jake McCarthy, Alek Thomas and Mike Yastrzemski have all been bandied about the rumor mill this offseason. The Pirates will surely look into some potential under-the-radar options as well. Budget-strapped teams with some outfield depth (e.g. Twins or, if they’re comfortable dealing within the division, Brewers) could make intriguing partners, as could a team like the Orioles, with plenty of interesting young hitters but less supply in terms of quality young starting pitching.
Of course, if trade efforts fall flat, the free agent market does have some affordable names. Max Kepler, Alex Verdugo, Jesse Winker and Austin Hays are among the interesting and affordable free agents who could fit even a small-payroll club like Pittsburgh.
On the bullpen front, there’s little use speculating on specific targets, given the sheer volume of possibilities. Hiles cautions against the chances of another relatively significant splash like the one the Bucs made when signing Aroldis Chapman last year, instead positing that the Pirates will be shopping at far lower rates. Typically, the best way to find bargain options is to wait out the market and see who’s left without a seat when the musical chairs stop in February. The Pirates could also try to convince a potential trade partner to include some pre-arbitration bullpen help in any deal netting them an outfielder.
The Pirates currently project for a payroll of about $74.5MM, per RosterResource. That does not include an expected reunion with designated hitter Andrew McCutchen. Pittsburgh finished the 2024 season with a roughly $87MM payroll and peaked with a franchise-record $100MM outlay back in 2016.
What a pathetic franchise this is, run by a profit-obsessed carpetbagger
Have to give MLBTR credit. Early on, they listed names like O’Neill and Conforto as potential FA targets. Now they’re gone. After this current list goes by, we can focus on guys you’ve never heard of, which is more in keeping with Nutting is looking for
Yep, their window is now open and aren’t pressing for a key free agent bat. If not now, when? They can’t compete for a championship like that.
in reality they will never compete for a championship; though management says as much to the gullible rubes to attract them to spend their hard earned money and attend games
@the man
It’s a vicious cycle. Owner doesn’t spend money because fans don’t support team. Fans don’t support team because Owner doesn’t spend money.
It’s like the old adage, “drinking poison hoping the other guy dies.”
Ridiculousness on steroids!
Nope
It’s incumbent on any owner to provide fans—stakeholders—with a viable product
How many fans of McDonalds would go, buy a BigMac, find the meat is now cardboard, and then accept the explanation from ownership that “sorry, it’s because not enough people are buying Big Macs”
It’s laughable, and it’s not a cycle at all
That some here are apologists for a billionaire is ridiculous. Like saying yes, McDonalds is right. We deserve cardboard
Hit the nail on the head there. If someone had some extra money to spend on entertainment no one would blame them for spending it on something else instead of on a movie that had poor to mediocre reviews; especially considering it’s not exactly cheap to take your family to the ballpark. I think the fans have more than proven that they will spend and support a winning product. IMO you can’t spend just to spend but it would be a little different if similar markets like Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Cleveland, etc haven’t all routinely outspent Pittsburgh.
I get that Nuttings group wants a return on their investment, who wouldn’t, but there’s no way he can’t too if other owners can spend more and still get a return. Seems they might just be better owners and maybe more concerned with winning instead of making the most off his investment
Kepler would definitely be a good solution for them.
I hope they stay away from trades and just sign a few vets like Max Kepler for RF and closer David Robertson
When you can only count 2 major holes on a Pirates team , then that’s a really good thing
You can’t be serious
Two major holes?
I asked this last season—-how are they going to score runs? From where? Who?
And this year’s roster is worse
Reynolds
Cruz
Horwitz
McCutchen
Is a pretty decent heart of the order, and i think Nicky G & IKF will be getting on base ahead of it
Pirates will never have a top lineup, but this season they have one of the better rotations
… shouldn’t be that hard to fix a bullpen over an offseason. Just need a solid vet closer.
Bednar can compete for the CL again, but I think he’d thrive as a relaxed fireballer in the 8th
Goku, you’re putting a great deal of faith in Horwitz. I can’t comment. Haven’t seen enough. Can’t put faith in him either
Reynolds is Reynolds
Cutch is 38 or 39. How many more 20 homer years can he have? And his average was way down
I like the upside of Cruz but he has to buy in. Poor plate approach. Lots of K’s. Lack of maturity
Lots of hopes
I said it was a legit heart of the order
Depending on your definition of the word, but I meant worthy as in legit
Agreed on Cutch, but ideally I’m thinking the RF addition should knock him down a spot. Barring him getting hurt on the basepaths, Cutch should have a decent final season, similar to last year
You be nice. Lil goku is off until January. Chilling in his Pirates pajamas. With dreams of a Pirates championship dancing in his head. Kepler is the missing piece.
I’d rather have Winker, for what it’s worth
I’d be happy with Winker or Kepler
I think they’ll do nothing
Name a business owner that isn’t profit obsessed.
I hate Nutting as much as anyone but the complaints about being profit driven is pointless.
TJ, I get that. You’re on target
Profit obsessed is a bit different
In sports you simply have to spend the money
Come on, now. We both know this guy simply won’t. And he’ll continually hide behind the small market/low financial ability myth that’s been blown to bits in places like Milwaukee, KC, Baltimore etc
Profit driven, sure, that’s business
This is an obsession that dictates high income and low expenses at all costs. That’s the problem
Won’t argue. He’s the worse of the worse.
Really wish you were forced into using revenue sharing on your ML roster and not just say it’s being spent on development or scouting or analytics
To be fair, though, of the teams you mentioned, only KC has won it all, and that was a decade ago. Since that time, it has all been top ten media markets that have won the titles.
Agree completely
But it’s not about winning it all, but rather, just being competitive
Milwaukee seems to do it every year
TB for awhile
At least embrace the Rays old model—
Stock your farm system
Develop talent
Bring them to the majors
Watch them flourish and compete
Trade or release when contracts get too high
Repeat
Keeping the farm stocked all the while
That’s the vicious cycle teams like the Pirates (and others) find themselves in. If they sign a QO player, they lose a high second round pick and a fifth. These picks are the lifeblood of a team like the Pirates. Not making excuses for Bob Nutting. More an indictment of MLB.
920-Since the Twins won the WS in 1991 only the Royals have won it of the 8 small market teams.
Of the 8 all have been more successful than the Pirates except for the three year period when the Pirates had the second best regular season record in all of baseball.
The knock should be that they have not been consistent as a winning team which is quite possible even for a small market team.
But without superstars that are all sucked up by the big money large market teams they will never win a WS.
@Mendoza Line 215 Large markets huge advantage. But these small markets shoot themselves in the foot. Pirates sign Rowdy. Brewers Hoskins. They both should have signed Santana instead. No one wanted Tauchman who went to white sox for 2m. No one wanted Tim Hill. Pirates at least smart enough to pick up Bart but should have been a bidding war for him. There’s good players available and for absolutely free but these teams are too stupid to grab them.
yes, other than drafting Skenes which was an automatic pick, Cherington has been a failure for drafting position players.
He used a number one pick to draft Henry Davis
So if the intention is for a high draft pick in Nutting’s tightness for increasing payroll, it’s not working out very well
“Name a business owner that isn’t profit obsessed.”
TJECK109;
LOL
So the way it works is that a person lays out money to buy a business, assumes legal liabilities, spends time working at it. and isn’t supposed to be concerned if he/she doesn’t make a profit. ?
Any owner can put the down payment into a tax-free issued bond and get guaranteed interest…e.g. a profit.
Do you support yourself?
Samuel you need to learn to comprehend comments before replying.
Your senseless rambling is exactly what I already pointed out. But thanks for wasting your time
Nutting abuses it
Everyone in the country knows it
If he can’t fork up around 16-18mil more on free agents this offseason with Skenes, Cruz, Reynolds + Cutch’s final season, then he never will
Goal needs to be division or bust. Make the playoffs in the process…
It is annoying this permanent state of wildcard chance being their only ambition.
Having Skenes for this full season should make his li’l d do circles,
…..But this same owner did almost nothing different when the Pirates had prime McCutch, Marte and Gerrit Cole in 2014
2014 Gerrit Cole’s sophomore season with Cutch & Marte in place …. you’d think that would’ve been the time to go add a proven player to the mix?
RE-SIGN MARLON BYRD or MORNEAU OR BOTH ?????
So who’d they surround that amazing core in 2014 with?
Russell Martin amazing pickup (had to buy-low)
They let clubhouse icon AJ Burnett go to Philly in a crucial 2014 season, despite bringing him back in 2015
The rest are all either pathetic/bad/laughable
Ike Davis
Clint Barmes
Travis Ishikawa
Travis Snider
Jordy Mercer
Gaby Sanchez
Alex Presley
Felix Pie
So far 2025 Skenes big sophomore season with Jones, Reynolds, Cruz, & Keller in place, and yet Bob has not added any salary besides extensions …
Yeah. It was almost as if he figured they had a chance and failed, so he blew up the boat
THAT rebuild, mostly under Huntington and Hurdle, was more successful from a development perspective. And they augmented areas that needed it with the guys you noted
This rebuild didn’t bring the power hitters. Most of the outfielders came up and fizzled
Deep on pitching and middle infielders
But the refusal to augment the strengths they DO have is sickening. It’s a simple refusal to spend, period
Madden is right. The only thing Nutting will understand is if fans stop going to games, stop watching games and stop buying Pirates merch. But even then, MLB’s financial structure will mean great profits for years
Pirates fans need to step up the protests of Bob this season with more signs and stuff at games.
Since Skenes has more leverage than the owner , i bet he wouldn’t hold his tongue in the pressers..
Fan protests need to become the theme of the Pirates this season and national trending story , is literally the only way to GET RID OF BOB
(Or he could just sign 2 Free Agents for like 8Mil each LIKE A NORMAL MLB OWNER.. and we’d be chill, but he’s a (insert term)
a fan who received donations to put up billboards across the city recently did just that.
Tell Nutting to sell the team.
Last summer a Pennsylvania legislature representative told Nutting that the lsck of fans attending the games was hurting local businesses on the north side.
Nutting doesn’t care.
Capitalism at its finest
Let’s back up here a moment.
Burnett wanted a 3 year contract and wanted to play closer to home, that’s why he signed with the Phillies.
But he got out of that contract because he wanted to retire ad a Pirate in 2015
I’m pretty sure he left because they gave him a good contract and didn’t lowball him signifanctly like the Pirates, who he obviously prefered to stay with.
I’ll say it again, if Bob wasn’t willing to spend that 2015 offseason, then he never will
And I’ll say again…look at the past few off seasons. He’s gotten progressively worse
Worst owner in MLB
*worst owner in all of sports
Had you “never heard of” Aroldis Chapman before the Pirates signed him? Andrew McCutchen?
Had you “never heard of” Bryan Reynolds, Mitch Keller, or Ke’Bryan Hayes before the Pirates gave them long-term contract extensions?
The Pirates have a low payroll because Pittsburgh is now, and always has been, a bad market for baseball – even when the team was one of the best in MLB.
In 2015, the Pirates went to the postseason for the third straight year and had the second most wins in the major leagues. Their attendance ranked 10th in the 15 team National League.
Absolute apologetic baloney
I’ll go back to the 60’s to discuss stars and contracts if you wish
We can discuss owners along the way, too
This is the absolute worst in MLB. And it’s not even close
Your attendance number is somewhat funny in that while the Pirates play in the nicest ballpark in baseball—a taxpayer funded ballpark—the capacity is 39K
Give it a rest, Rich. We’ve heard it all before
The city will support a team that tries to win with an owner that goes for it each year. We even support the Riverhounds. But this type of apologetic baloney just isn’t flying anymore
MrMainStreet;
I moved a couple of hundred miles from Pittsburgh years ago. Don’t know the issue with the baseball team, but local fans seem to support the Steelers and Penguins well.
As for the Pirates, every year for the last 3-4 when the baseball season is on, Pittsburgh baseball fans post their frustration on here complaining about the way the Pirates are playing via their watching game on TV. I read things that pretty much say: “The players are screwing up constantly, and it appears that they don’t care….they’re pretty much playing for their stats and no one is doing anything about it.” Then they disappear as apparently they stop watching the games….on TV. No way would they go down to the park to see it live.
–
Small market MLB teams in Milwaukee, Cleveland and Tampa Bay are in contention 3 out of every 5 years with payrolls similar to the level of the Pirates (even Baltimore recently),
To me the problem with the owner is not the budget; it’s the people he brings in to run his baseball ops area, and subsequently the people they bring in to run the franchise. He should have cut bait on Huntington years before he did, and Cherington is similar – the team looks good on paper and has the dreaded “potential / if only” that all losing pro sports losing franchises have: But the rub regarding the Pirates is that baseball is played on grass and dirt…not on paper and not on computer spreadsheets.
I can agree in principal, Samuel
But here’s my problem with your logic and it goes back to something Dream said last year. Yes, you have to put out money to win. Most people associate that with players but here in Pittsburgh, we’ve come to understand it means coaches, scouts, player development personnel and of course, front office
There’s a reason a hockey guy is the team president and there’s a reason things under him then go as they do
There’s a reason Cherington is GM but a lot of people likely forget that he has constraints placed on him. I’m not exempting him from critique—his player development program has been a train wreck—but it’s hard to target him when it’s clear he has marching orders
Again, I enjoy MLBTR throwing names out about potential targets for the Pirates. Most are mid-level, at best. And yet, even they are too high priced.
Bob Nutting may be a wonderful man. It’s not personal. But as an owner, he has done his best to kill baseball in this town
Your small park argument would matter if the Pirates were selling out every game in 20, but they were from that.. They averaged only 28,000 per game, 11,000 short of your 3b9,000 capacity figure.
Pittsburgh has always been a bad market for baseball.
In 1992, the Pirates won their division for the third straight season and the city couldn’t sellout Three Rivers Stadium for playoff games.
Throughout the 1970s, the Pirates were consistently one of the best teams in Major League Baseball – and attendance was consistently abysmal.
When the Pirates’ lease on PNC Park expires after the 2030 season, Pittsburghers should not be at all surprised that their lack of support has left them without a team.
And if Nutting is the owner, he should call me. I’ll be glad to help him load the moving vans
The Savannah Bananas are coming to town in August. It may be the last time I make it to PNC
I find your comments curious
Pirates fans have lived through Nutting, the worst owner in team history. Through the post-Leyland era, through the McClatchy/Russell/McLendon period. Through the drug trial years. I can even remember lean years in the later 60’s. In most cases, the Pirates did their best to kill their fan base and they’ve succeeded. You’ve failed to mention any of that, facts unique to many similar cities. Apparently you would have expected greater support in those times even so
Generally speaking however, the region has supported a winner, a competitive team, one that hustles. We haven’t seen that since Hurdle’s salad days
You got to be kidding me here Richard
The Steelers ranked 19 in attendance last year. Guess it’s not a football town either
Maybe park size matters. As of now the Pirates have the 24th biggest park
The Steelers sellout every game.
The Pirates went to the playoffs for the third straight time in 2015 and had the second best record in MLB. Their attendance averaged 10,000 per game below a sellout.
The size of PNC Park has nothing to do with the fact that Pittsburgh is a bad market for baseball. People simply don’t support the team – even when they are one of the best in baseball.
More abject baloney
Let’s also talk about how the region has suffered great population loss since the demise of the steel industry while you’re at it
You’re good at picking and choosing your factoids
The Steelers play 8 home games
The Pens play 41 and their attendance is down these past couple years as the team struggles
Show me a franchise that works hard tocompete and the fans will come out. In almost 60 years of being a fan, those kinds of teams and front offices looking to build a winner have been few and far between here
Sorry. But the allure of PNC Park wears off quickly, especially and a bottle of water is $5, a beer is $10 and parking is $20
You ask for support and think giving little in return is ok. Not sure successful businesses work that way
Well TJ,
Supposedly TV money triumphs all.
Shouldn’t there be major pressure from MLB for the Pirstes to beef up around Skenes, who everyone wants to see on ESPN & TBS?
Given what we’ve seen in Oakland, I don’t think there’s any such supervision in MLB. Or concern
Agreed, and it would fall on Bob’s def ears anyhow
It’s on the fans to make it an annoying issue, and pressure MLB to get Bob out of there
Go watch Williams Cherington interviews. If I didn’t think Nutting would provide the necessary resources I wouldn’t take the job!!!!!!!!
the steel industry might have lost jobs but technology and healthcare jobs have made up the difference so spare me the nonsense that Pittsburgh is a poor place
Carnegie Mellon is one of the country’s best schools for AI research and the University of Pittsburgh is a world renowned school for medicine
I know this, TheMan3 and I’m in complete agreement. I was just debating the half-truths put forward by Richard
RichardJarzynka – Even though I rarely agree with you and think you are a ridicules Pirate/Nutting apologist, I am here to relay the massage that FOB&D wants you back.
Chapman was one of the worst fits for the Pirates and dumbest signing
I’m not even going to look, but ik Ben could’ve signed someone pretty awesome for Chapmans 10mil at RF or 1B last offseason..
That said, can’t fully blame Chapman for Bednar completely imploding.
Chapman did more than ok, but still is more of a lefty specialist at this point than a closer
Pirates wouldn’t pay for someone that expensive anyways so the draft pick isn’t a factor.
Would you prefer the Pirates spend double what did last year, and lose 13 more games?
LA Angels spent 172M, and were 63-99.
Pirates spent 84M, and were 76-86.
the die hard fans who go back to the prominent days of Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell and Dave Parker have been waiting 45 years for another championship while listening to how poor Nutting would be if he actually cared enough about winning to spend some money
Fact is, his share of the luxury tax combined with the ESPN television contract that all teams share annually, Nutting doesn’t have a spend a shiny penny for payroll
Forbes projects that his profits hover around $35-50 million a year
He’s a businessman first and foremost and doesn’t care if the fans crave for a winner, as long as he makes a profit
You’re missing the point here
If your view is Pirates fans want Nutting to shell out Soto money for players or as you say, simply double the payroll from last year, you’re thinking fans here are knee jerk idiots
Look, they have the pieces here to at least compete. Whether it’s for the NL Central or a wild card berth, they have starting pitching (even after the ridiculous Ortiz trade)
My thinking is Bednar will be ok
They have Reynolds. And Cruz, who will only get better.
Bart and Gonzales had nice seasons
They have IKF, who’s a good utility player
They have Endy coming back
They may even get 20 more homers from Cutch for another year
All they needed was a corner outfielder and 1st baseman. They didn’t need to break the bank—-but guys who could drive in runs and hit some homers
Yeah, Alonso or Walker would’ve been nice but they were pipe dreams
But they got Horwitz as one of the pieces instead? Seriously?
Again, wouldn’t take much here. They just refuse to do it
I respectfully disagree with your optimism on some of the players.
I liked Ortiz last year, but you gotta give to get. Hopefully Horowitz will be able to be a good 1B, but I still think he might be on the smaller size for the position.
I’ve lost all faith in Bednar. Too many 4 seamers down the middle got put into the stands to blow leads.
Reynolds is consistently good, not great like they were trying to project.
Cruz is his own worst enemy at bat. Hopefully the new hitting coach can train him to not even swing at sliders from lefties. He reminds me of Gregory Polanco a lot, and we know how that ended.
Bart was a bright spot for the team last year.
Other than that, they have too many utility men that are very lousy hitters.
I think they now have too many prospects with roughly the same amount of skills, and don’t know what to do with them, and are too afraid to trade them for a proven player.
Oh I agree 100% with all of this
Reynolds is no superstar in MLB but he’s the closest thing they have to a consistent hitter
Cruz is their HR guy but his plate discipline is horrible. His approach is devoid of any knowledge of what a pitcher is throwing or where the strike zone is. He can only get better. And yes, your analogy of Polanco is dead on. Only difference is, Polanco put in a helluva lot of work and couldn’t succeed. I don’t get the idea that Cruz does the same
And you’re right about Bednar but your reasons are why I think he’ll be ok. He hasn’t lost velocity but needs to regain his control of spin and off speed.
I could go on
I generally agree with all of this
But to me, other than LA, SD and Philly, the NL is generally a watered down league.
Horwitz had a hi9her OPS than Alsono, last year, and was only 13 points below Walker..
His hitting was 27% more productive than league average. Bryan Reynolds was only 19% more productive than average..
Or.tiz was considerably worse than league average as a starting pitcher last year. His ERA, which is a meaningless statistic that does nothing to measure a pitcher’s individual performance, was a mirage.
Baseball Trade Values rates the Horowitz acquisition as a “major underpay” by the Pirates.
Ortiz was their second best pitcher down the stretch. Had one horrendous start against the Dbacks and was consistent throughout
Do you watch the games, or is spewing stats your deal?
Horwitz is likely a guy who’ll hit against righties only as his splits are horrible.
Never heard of your publication and couldn’t care less. It is another brick in the wall for this pathetic franchise
I’m probably in the minority but I like the Horowitz/Ortiz deal for the Bucs. Even if Horowitz is a platoon guy instead of an everyday player he would be taking on the bigger share of the platoon and he seems to do everything that most Pirates fans complain about batters not doing such as taking walks, not striking out and getting on base. The real reason I like the trade though is because I don’t really buy Ortiz’ second half. He reminds me a lot of Roansy Contreras who is bouncing around the league and mostly as a depth option in AAA the last couple seasons. Both guys had/have mid 90’s fastballs and one decent secondary pitch but neither misses enough bats or has a go-to putaway pitch. So they can have stretches where they get really good bottom line results when they get weak contact and sprinkle in some K’s but it’s an unsustainable recipe and more often than not they’re working deep counts and one mistake pitch away from a crooked number on the scoreboard.
I like Horowitz. It was expensive but nothing they can’t replace. Nothing elite. It’s a trade you can do.
correction
Cruz was their strikeout guy with 181
Lol Thome,
sorry out there in LA, and you know more than anyone that the big contracts don’t always work out.
But what’s sad is we’re (or at least I’m not) asking for.
It’s just insane that signing a free agent for like 1 year 12 mil is so far out of the question for the Bucs, you wonder how they’re even considered a major league team
Dam right. Very accurate post.
This CANNOT be the very best way to run a team in the Pittsburgh market.
I’m so fed up and sick and tired of seeing the same nonsense year after year.
Abandoned ship Nutting. Sell the team.
Exactly were not asking them to be the Dodgers, all we’re asking is that for 2 out of every 20 years they sign a major league free agent for like 15 mil.
…has never happened, despite having windows with phenoms like Gerrit Cole & McCutchen
Kind of hurts to know that having Skenes changes nothing and ownership won’t spend more than a nickel even for just 1 year
Like what are we doing here?
I hear Josh Van Meter is available
Taylor Ward for Braxton Ashcraft or Thomas Harrington.
Let’s go.
That sounds fair for both sides
Taylor Ward’s 2025 salary is over 9 million and he’s 30?
Cherington wants an outfielder with a few years of control before free agency
He probably won’t trade one of our prized pitchers in the minors for Ward
Trading your better pitching prospects for a weak platoon would be stupid. Just sign Canha for Nutting. Rather bring back Joe. All for trading for Ward but with quantity lower prospects. Now Rooker Tucker I would trade both and more.
I think Ashcraft is out the door this off-season. Surprised he wasn’t in the Horwitz trade. Another trade I wouldn’t mind is Ashcraft and maybe another prospect for Heston Kjerstad. The O’s have a ton of young outfielders and just added Tyler O’Neill. Kjerstad could definitley be a name on the move for the right price.
I like that trade, but don’t really want Ward
His upside is capped and seems like a guy who’s just going to be hurt all the time
I’d take him over nothing tho
Pirates will sign whomever is left in the outfield market around the first week of March, about the same time last year they signed Michael A Taylor and touted him as an everyday player.
But i really hope they get in on some of these relievers now. Last year’s bullpen was a disaster and they need at least a couple more arms in there
Cherington has perfected the art of dumpster diving
Michael A Taylor and Rowdy Tellez both come to mind
If the Pirates wait too long, Bryan De La Cruz will be the only corner outfielder left.
They’ll bring Connor Joe back before De La Cruz.
Not sure why I’m surprised any more but I had a glimmer of hope that having the best pitcher in the world might make them wake up and try and bring in some real talent. I guess we’ll see but not holding my breath.
If they don’t enough people will still keep giving Nutting $.
Ben …” we are looking at 4-5 big name corners who happen to be in Korea, and should fit right in “
Jared Jones for Wilyer Abreu. Win win for both teams
Wilyer would excel in Pittsburgh because he wouldn’t face the same pressure or criticism from the Pittsburgh fans and media like in Boston. He’s a potential 5 tool player imo.
I haven’t watched him lately but his worst tool was run, has he got faster? So far a platoon. Do they want more elite pitching or now looking for 4 5? I like him but not sure I would trade Jones for him. But ot doesn’t have to be a 1 for 1.
Jones has too much upside to trade him for a platoon player
We have enough of those already
First thought heck no, second thought no way would I trade Jones for that, third thought, long term control and I have lots of quality pitching prospects…
Okay let’s talk.
After overpaying with Ortiz, etc. on the last deal, they should stick with what they have. They have Cabbage, Cook, Gorski and Suwinski for Spring Training. Let them compete for a spot.
It will probably be Austin Hays.
Hays has a career .277/.331/.469 line against lefties. I would totally be fine bringing him and Max Kepler in as a platoon. I also think Randal Grichuk would be a realistic platoon option.
Suwinski can’t hit lefties, he might fair well in a platoon with Hays, no need for Keplar. That probably works out for the Pirates.
They need some depth at 3B.
Looks to me like Henry Davis will be ready in ’25, he is going to be the Pirates best hitter. They don’t look so bad. Don’t have a plethora of prospects beyond Davis and Bubba Chandler but those two will be impact players.
Will be an interesting season, the NL Central is stacked.
Exciting
Nutting has you trained well.
yeah let’s platoon Jack and his.151 batting average
When Jack was sent to Indy last year he still didn’t correct his swing or plate approach and their hitting coach helped several players
Jack’s best seasons are behind him
Suwinski hit around .240 with decent SLG against righties in ’24, was better in ’23, as good of an option as the Pirates have available. They can probably afford to sign an outfielder but Suwinski should be in the mix for ABs.
He is one season removed from his best season.
@bwmiller
To be fair, jack can’t hit righties all that well either, 2024 was brutal.
Well Jacks gonna have to take some at bats from the looks of the Pirates roster.
Hays made $6.3m last year so he’ll get scooped up for 2/$20m and be someone’s 4th OF. That’s too much money for Pitt.
Hays is injury prone
They paid 10 mil for Chapman so why not 9 mil for someone who plays every day & is under control. Ward hit 25 hr & 75 rbi
Cheap ass position players grow on trees, high leverage relievers don’t.
Why don’t the Pirates move Cruz to RF and get a defense first CF?
MAT is the top free agent choice
The Pirates will never win as long as Nutting owns the team. Ben Cherington is terrible at making trades, but Theo Epstein Hisownself couldn’t succeed with Nutting as an owner.
And Nutting will keep owning team until death unless you guys stop going to games and get rid of cable.
Eight years ago I pledged to never buy a Pirates ticket as long as Nutting owns the team, and I’ve kept my pledge. The real problem is that, with the low payrolls and the revenue sharing, Nutting is guaranteed a nice profit before a single fan walks through the gates at PNC Park.
He’s been living off the cable bill. If you pay for cable you are paying Nutting even if you never watched a game in your life. That’s died down last few years. Hopefully it keeps going or cable companies make it a add on. Then if he wants any local tv $ he will be forced to put out a good product. Ticket sales don’t matter. If 1.3m show up its a 50m payroll. 1.7 should up it’s ba 80m payroll. 2.3m show up its a 100m payroll. Payroll is determined by attendance. Only hope this year is tv deal is up and with Skenes some moves could boost attendance significantly so if he was smart 100m should be a option. Attendance would need to drop under a million to have a significant effect.
Well, read Madden’s column from today
He lost the local TV deal and is now hooked in with SportsNet Pittsburgh 360. And that was largely the Penguins thing. The Pirates got hooked onto it but he lost $
Rod’s right. The incredible revenue stream that comes from MLB makes ownership la cosa nostra of sports. Why change anything? And sell? Are you insane?
It’s like hitting the lottery every year
But we have apologists here who are enablers of his methodology.
Small market. Limited money. Not as great of profit as we think. Pours every cent back into team
Sheesh
ironically, you might be wrong, Dream
Nutting’s two children have no interest in owning the Pirates or in baseball at so I expect Bob to sell the team at some stage of his life ,probably not while we’re still alive though
You talk the kids? Or just believe what Nutting told you? Hopefully he sells it. Might just die and let them sell it if they aren’t interested.
Doesn’t matter. The new owner might spend 10 or 20 million more. Really not a needle mover.
You’re bouncing all over the place here, Dream
Look, we agreed long ago that your dissection of the TB model is the prescribed way small market teams must go
Milwaukee, KC, Cleveland, Detroit and although Samuel would disagree, Baltimore, all have adopted the methods
The Pirates did, too
You know this and were the original decoder for me
But unlike the aforementioned, who saw the rebuild to fruition and then augmented the areas that didn’t come though so well with legitimate major leaguers who could fit right in and produce, Nutting has refused to do the same
Instead, he’s opted to go low, lower and now with Horwitz, lowest
Not sure why you’re suddenly hedging your bets here. No one I read here is looking for the Pirates to spend like the Mets
But look at who KC added last year
Look at what TB did in the past
You can’t tell me this wasn’t—-this isn’t—doable. I’m somewhat amazed Nutting will continue with the myth he is propagating. He’s lost the media. He’s lost a big portion of his fan base
Pirates are awful. They wait years too long to fire everyone. They are idiots. Too stupid to be Tampa Cleveland Baltimore. They would like to be that smart. Think they are that smart. But they ain’t.
All they have to do is sign Goldschmidt Winker and a reliever or 2. Attendance will go over 2 million and they will be above 500. They just cleared 10.5m from Chapman. 3.5 rowdy. 8 perez. 3 Gonzales. 2 grandpal. Attendance went up so they have more $. Tv deal is up after season. You would think they would want to win so they can get a better one. Too expensive? Ok get Santana instead. Could’ve sign Tauchman. Try Hayes I guess. Probably should have splurged on Conforto. If Nutting took even a tiny amount of risk he would make more $. If he just did a lil bit of marketing he would make more $. Paid a bit of attention to the fans he would make more $. Guys stupid. Making $ just by chugging along. Only smart thing he did was buy a team. He doesn’t even have to spend $ to make $. If he hired a new gm they could have came in and traded more of these garbage prospects for MLB players.
Thanks for the comments. Agreed
But it’s done with mirrors. It’s a carnival shell game the way they conduct transactions. Even the A’s have stopped the shenanigans. That leaves the Pirates to play these games
I get that there are worse teams like the Rockies. But there is no worse franchise and worse owner
Or the new owner may move the team.
Doubtful. Mlb wants more teams not less. Pittsburgh hates philly Cleveland so the Pittsburgh market would be dead for baseball. If anything the let him leave and get a new Pirates team. They would force him to stay or sell. I guess if pnc becomes a dump and the city won’t pay for a new stadium they could leave but that doesn’t seem to be happening soon.
No mirrors. You hear me say all the time so so has just been unlucky and is due to break out. Well Goldschmidt was unlucky most of the season. Even though he is another year later his numbers should improve. Not a dumpster dive. When he signs you are going to see “wow” “overpay”. But he will be cheaper because he will sell tickets. Casual fans know the name and will be excited. As they should be. Not happening though. You get Horowitz Reynolds. What if one of them gets hurt? You know the answer to that. Paul would say insert Cherington dumpster dive. Goku bright eyes would say they have stud prospects like Cook and Yorke, they are just as good as Reynolds. Actually with this new awesome hitting coach they are better than Reynolds. Injury is good news! Opens up playing time for Jack and Davis they are going to be awesome.
A’s are only spending because if they don’t get their payroll to 105 million they will lose their revenue sharing! Nutting would spend to in that situation!
As is right now, they’re a 72 win team. At best. And their starting pitchers that go 5-6 innings are just an asterisk. Nothing more
Where will the runs come from?
They still have a Punch and Judy 3rd baseman
They have a hole at SS and in RF
They hope Bart and Nick will have similar seasons
They hope Endy will provide some uh, pop
They’re going to try to resurrect Suwinski and Davis
They’re going to try to squeeze out another season of Cutch
They have a defensive question mark in CF
They still have an inept manager who will not correct intangibles like passion, focus and hustle.
And with all due respect to Jason Mackey of the PG, his ‘what the Pirates moves at the winter meetings showed us’ article could have been re-written in one sentence: That they are going to do nothing
As constructed, this team takes steps backwards next season.
Still time.
IKF Peguero Triolo SS!
Well that’s why I wrote “as is currently constructed”
Yeah. There’s still time
But who are we fooling?
It’s a joke of a franchise
a few years ago there was an article in the Post Gazette about his children and both were interviewed.
Apparently Nutting offered both an executive position in the organization and both refused saying neither have interest in baseball
you know Nutting is cheap when the A’s payroll will be higher than the Bucs next year
Nutting would just as much as A’s if in their situation.
I am wondering how they will judge any new bat (or pitcher for that matter) in the setting of new hitting and pitching coaching. Will or could the hitting coaches bring out the talent already on the roster (like Suwinski or others) or will a couple of new names come in and perform better than last year’s group that they may replace? How would one really know? Making two changes at one time may result in one canceling the other out or (hopefully) a positive positive effect. The net effect will be hard to judge.
They have only added one guy. We will judge it on Hayes, Suwinski, Triolo, Davis, IKF, Cruz, exc.
If coaches could do all that they would be paid drastically more.
The Horwitz trade was proof enough that they aren’t interested adding to the payroll. Plus they have openly said they don’t plan on signing any significant free agents. You can forget about anyone that is in or past arbitration. Nutting is not interested in paying anyone else. Except maybe McCutchen and a couple $1M bullpen arms. Would be ecstatic at this point to land Wilyer Abreu or Heston Kjerstad but it would cost Bubba Chandler and/or Mitch Keller and likely still not making this a playoff team.
hey, there’s always the Pierogi races and fireworks night
I’m just genially curious as to why and how the pirates could be such a small market team. I mean they’re in the same city as the Steelers arguably the greatest franchise in the NFL. Same city, same fans. Is it just a cheap owner or is baseball not as big of a deal in Pittsburgh
That’s been a hot topic here the last few days. My opinion, cheap owner. All he cares about it lining his own pockets.
If you put an entertaining product on the field, we will come. He thinks it should be the other way around.
@Bucco…yeah it has to be the owner. I’ve never been but I heard the ballpark is amazing, it’s a sports town w/ the most ICONIC football team. How can you run out a baseball team with a 70 million dollar payroll. It’s a disgrace
It’s a great sports town. Always has been
Too many apologists for a billionaire
Fans are easily disenchanted with losing teams. They’re easily angered by myths that keep getting pushed as rationales.
You can’t count the Steelers. They play 8 games here a year. Their games are like social events
Look at the Pens before Mario
Look at their attendance now
Look at Pitt football
And as stated above, look at what this franchise has put their fan base through over the last 40-60 years. Some good times. Many more bad times. Some ugly times
And this owner? The worst in MLB. You rebuild. You still have some holes. Look at what KC did. Milwaukee. Baltimore. You surround your kids with those missing pieces
But this guy? LOL. What a joke
Salary cap and much much better revenue sharing. No local regional sports network.
NFL is structured differently. There is little difference in what teams can spend and there is a cap. The NHL also has a hard cap. MLB doesn’t have a payroll cap though they have capped what teams can spend on the draft, where a little more money could go a long way. The Pirates employed that the draft avenue, outspending most teams and signing the “unsignable” (see Josh Bell signing). The league stepped in and stopped that as it was unfair.. They put a cap on draft spending. Umm. Kind of strange, that there is no cap on payroll spending while there is a cap on draft money. I believe that the league is happy having big market teams win and has created a system that favors big markets.
I follow the Pirates because I love the game of baseball and I was raised in the Pittsburgh area., not because I expect them to win. The game is the primary attraction, winning is optional.
@Skeptical that last paragraph is what it’s about for me too. I’ll never subscribe to boycotting baseball just because Bob Nutting makes money. I go to 8-10 games a year and at least half of those are because I want to see Ronald Acuna, Jackson Holliday, Bobby Witt, etc, play and has very little to do with whether the Pirates win that day though I prefer they do. Seeing things like how various batters prepare differently for an at bat in the on deck circle or watching a runner on first that you know is going to try to take second base are fun things to me that you cant always see if you aren’t there. Simply watching any pitcher battle with any batter has a different energy when you are watching it in the stadium than on TV. Go Pirates for sure but go baseball first and foremost.
Agree with both Jimmy and Skeptical here
Love the game. Born and raised with it
And truthfully, all I expect or want is a competitive team—one that hustles
.500 is all I hope for
But I don’t live in a vacuum
I can’t wear blinders to what ownership is doing here and how it has crushed its fan base
I had season tickets for home games for nearly 30 years, even when I lived in Florida and outside of Philadelphia, I kept them, but when it became more obvious that McClatchey wasn’t going to put a winning team on the field, and that was in the middle 2000’s, I had enough
I can’t imagine buying tickets for even one game under the current cheapskate ownership
Well stated.
Much the same story with me
Went to games with my dad for years.
Forbes. 3 Rivers. PNC
I love seeing the same things Jimmy notes in his post
But I’ll watch on TV if I have nothing better to do
Salaries and owner greed are one thing. What Nutting has done is another
At this point, I’d rather watch the kids play
More passion. More hustle.
And I’ll throw some money into the 50/50 raffles that go around as I know it’s needed and appreciated
The Pirates come out of the Winter meetings with a platoon utility infielder. Great job again.
Sick of this billionaire owner. Invest 20-30 million in a RF, a couple relief pitchers. Move Horwitz to 2B, trade Keller for Casas to play 1B & add Kepler or Winker or Kjerstad in RF. This would be a very competitive lineup. Just a thought