The Cardinals are known to be looking to trade Nolan Arenado this offseason, but the talks are complicated by the fact that he has a full no-trade clause in his contract. Per a report today from Mark Feinsand, John Denton and Brian McTaggart of MLB.com, the Cards and Astros were in discussion on a trade to send him to Houston before Arenado informed St. Louis that he would not be waiving his no-trade clause to join the Astros. Katie Woo and Chandler Rome of The Athletic provided some additional details.
The Cardinals are planning for 2025 to be sort of a reset year, which has put Arenado’s name into trade rumors for the past few months. At the winter meetings last week, Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said that he intended to try to line up a deal. The idea would seem to be mutually beneficial. Arenado turns 34 in March and could get a chance to go to a club with more immediate aims of playing competitive baseball. The Cards would save some money and open up playing time to get looks at less established players like Nolan Gorman or Jordan Walker.
But as mentioned, Arenado gets a say in the matter via that no-trade clause. It was reported last week that he would approve a trade to six teams: the Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Phillies, Mets, or Red Sox. It wasn’t clear if that was an exhaustive list but the Astros weren’t on it. Per today’s report from Woo and Rome, that list originally included the Astros but they were removed, perhaps due to the recent Kyle Tucker trade and uncertainty around the Alex Bregman situation.
Speaking of Bregman, he has long been the third baseman in Houston, though there are some signs they are planning on moving on. In the years leading up to his free agency, they repeatedly said that they wanted to re-sign him but no deal ever came together. He is still unsigned but there was reportedly a gap in the negotiations, with the club offering him $156MM over six years while he was looking for something more in the $200MM range.
On top of that, the Astros made a big trade last week which arguably got them a Bregman replacement for the hot corner. In sending Tucker to the Cubs, the Astros got three players back, one of whom was Isaac Paredes. While Paredes has played all four infield positions, he’s played third base far more than the other three spots combined.
But in the aftermath of that trade, it was reported that the Astros were emerging as “a serious suitor” for Arenado. Since Arenado is renowned for his third base defense, the plan would presumably be to move Paredes over to first base, since that’s also a target area for Houston. Though it appears Arenado isn’t on board, which puts that whole plan on ice for now.
It’s not clear what the full deal was or why Arenado decided to put the kibosh on it. All reporting has suggested that winning is Arenado’s primary motivation with his theoretical next team and the Astros would seemingly fit the bill. Despite just trading Tucker, they are still planning to compete again in 2025 and have been one of the winningest clubs of the past decade. Perhaps his decision has something to do with geography, the Astros sign-stealing scandal or the Astros-Cardinals data breach scandal, though those would be just guesses. Woo and Rome’s report suggests that he wants more time to make his decision and this isn’t final.
Aside from Arenado blocking the deal, the most notable item in today’s reporting is that the Cardinals were apparently willing to eat money. Arenado is going to make $74MM over the next three years but $10MM is covered by the Rockies as part of the trade that sent him from Colorado to St. Louis. There are also some deferrals, which apparently drop the present day value of what’s owed from $64MM to about $60MM, per the MLB.com column. But the Cards were willing to include $15-20MM so that the Astros would only be on the hook for $40-45MM of that. The Athletic says the Cards were willing to eat $5MM per season for the rest of the deal, or exactly $15MM.
That’s a sensible position for the Cards to take. While lowering the payroll is a goal for their planned reset year, it’s already projected to be well below their recent spending levels. RosterResource projects the 2025 payroll to be almost $40MM below 2024 levels. Trading Arenado, even if they eat some of the money, would only widen that gap while allowing the club to get a more notable return in terms of young talent.
It also may have helped the Astros stay under the competitive balance tax, with RosterResource currently putting their number at $225MM. If they were to take on roughly three years and $45MM of Arenado’s deal, that would add $15MM to their number and put them right around the $241MM base threshold.
Now the major questions will be about what comes next for each club. Both reports suggest that the Astros and Cardinals will continue having discussions, but it’s possible that they may have to pivot to other options while they are still available, depending on how much time Arenado wants to make up his mind about Houston. The Astros could look to restart negotiations with Bregman or pivot to a first baseman like Christian Walker. The Cardinals could try to negotiate a new deal with one of the other clubs that Arenado is perhaps less hesitant about joining.
Arenado was an MVP finalist as recently as a couple of years ago but his offense has dipped in recent years. In 2022, he hit 30 home runs and slashed .293/.358/.533 for a 149 wRC+. When combined with his excellent glovework, FanGraphs credited him with 7.2 wins above replacement that year. But over the past two years, he has hit .269/.320/.426 for a 104 wRC+, barely above league average. He’s still been worth close to 3 fWAR annually in that time thanks to the defense, but it’s obviously a concerning drop. Most of his home runs come to the pull side, so playing in front of Houston’s Crawford Boxes could be a good fit for him, but he would have to want that.
SODOMOJO
Excellent.
Stevil
Until Houston signs Alonso to hit into the Crawford Boxes 81 games during the regular season.
Kidding.
Well, I hope they don’t.
SODOMOJO
It really would be a good landing spot for Polar Bear. Although, the middle of the Astros lineup isn’t quite as attractive or protected as a spot as it has been over the last 6-8 years. And I think he would be wise to join one of the super lineup teams in order to make sure he gets as many pitches to hit as possible.
deweybelongsinthehall
I don’t think it matters much if Alonso had 81 games in Houston, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, etc. I remember the first game I went to in Boston, Boog Powell hit a check swing to the triangle…
JackStrawb
That makes little sense. Pitchers in 2023 and especially in 2024 didn’t have to throw strikes to get Alonso to swing, and he swung at fewer strikes than nearly every other player in MLB. With 172 K’s in 2024 and extreme vulnerability to breaking stuff low and away, his strike zone judgment continues to get worse.
On top of that we’ve known lineup ‘protection’ is a myth since 1980.
Stevil
Yeah, if Boog Powell did that, forget what I said.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Houston does need somebody to bat behind Alvarez though. All I can see for that spot is Diaz , who isn’t horrible, but pitchers will put on Alvarez to face Diaz any day of the week. That’s where they will miss Tucker.
twozero6ix
Scared of the grind I see
Simm
I’m sure Colorado will gladly take him back for one slightly used Bryant
sports_fan9921
Might as well. They are still paying him.
DarkSide830
It’s going down!
GareBear
He doesn’t want to join that TRASH organization.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
I don’t like the Astros but i would much rather have a possibility of winning in Houston than waste away in St Louis with a team that clearly doesn’t want you around anymore. I also wouldn’t care about something that happened 7 years ago when I wasn’t on a team that was affected by it. To each their own I guess
Rexhudler86
@jesse. It probably because after this year the Astros might be rebuilding with Valdez leaving.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
@rex
Could be, and I know moving isn’t easy so I understand. It’s not easy just picking up your life and moving many miles away. Just my thoughts, not trying to be argumentative.
Rexhudler86
@jesse. I gotcha. That’s my only guess is he thinks it’s going to be the same as st Louis. So why leave.
ElitebFour3
1.) The Astros won’t be rebuilding. They are actively working on extending their window of dominance.
2.) The Astros have a LOADED pitching rotation. If Valdez quit today, the Astros would STILL have a loaded pitching rotation. Trading Tucker stung. Not gonna lie. So will losing Bregman. But as good as Valdez is, I wouldn’t even notice he was gone.
Hunter Brown – Stud. Potential Cy Young threat. Every year he’s figured more out.
Ronel Blanco – Rookie last year, no hitter in first start, all star, dominant.
Christian Javier – 2 combined no hitters back in 2022 – including one against the Phillies in the WS. Invisible Fastball
Luis Garcia – Work Horse , ROY runner up
Lance McCullers Jr. – If he ever comes back from being injured, best curveball in the entire league, and a gamer.
Verlander – (if we resign him, I think we will.) 2 Cy young’s in the last 6 years.
Valdez who?
old elpaso
Pitchers don’t hit anymore
vtadave
That was pretty hilarious.
MLBtheSho(hei)
Still need to hit, and counting on a 31 year old sophomore (Blanco), and 3 injured guys in Javier, Garcia and McCullers is dicey at best. I don’t think they’re done adding, but this would be the current lineup as constructed:
1. Pena SS
2. Altuve 2B
3. Alvarez DH
4. Diaz C
5. Paredes 3B
6. Dubon LF
7. McCormick CF
8. Singleton 1B
9. Myers RF
That lineup doesn’t scare anyone outside of Alvarez. I assume they’ll add a 1B and an outfielder, but I can’t imagine both being huge impact unless they can unload more salary. If they trade Valdez and Pressly, I could see them swinging big for a guy like Santander/Hernandez and grabbing someone like Walker. That would definitely lengthen them but their pitching would suffer.
RunDMC
Clearly doesn’t want him around? He gave a pretty long list of trade candidates that didn’t inc. HOU. His agent also alluded to there being a few more unnamed teams. If they didn’t want him around, they’d worked out a trade (even for less) with one of those publicized teams he said he’d waive his NTC for. Now that he’s publicly turned down HOU, STL must try and work out a deal, possibly for less, with one of those.
Rexhudler86
@rundmc. It’s clearly the best offer for stl, and they tried. Now it’s down to next one on his list.
Jbigz12
I think Arenado is going to be in STL til the deadline. I think he’s overestimating league wide interest in him. Houston wasn’t a bad spot for him to go. He has the right to decline though. No issues there
Johnny Devil
They trade for this guy and they go from a robust 88 wins to 80 tops.
wanderslust
It’s not that the Cards don’t want Arenado around – they should – just not at the salary he is earning on a team that probably won’t make the playoffs in 2025. They also need to see what they have in Nolan Gorman if he plays every day (and not at 2nd base)
TJW
I think you mean “trash can” organization.
Rhino
Haha yeah why join the organization that has been in the post season consistently for the last 8 years, won 2 World Series, 4 AL pennants and operates in a state with no state tax. Sounds awful!
Rexhudler86
@rhino because they don’t sign anyone long term, and the farm is barren. They done it the past, that was with the different gm’s, and most of the scouts went to Baltimore.
ElitebFour3
But Nolan Arenado won’t need a long term contract again, so why would that affect him?
JackStrawb
I think you meant Nolan Arenado won’t get a long term contract again.
Rexhudler86
@elitebfour. If you read the comment I’m replying to it will make sense. Water is wet like the void between your ears.
differentbears
Because they’re about to be irrelevant again.
And they won one World Series.
Bobcastelliniscat
The Astro organization is fine..but Texas? No, not even if they paid me.
HalosHeavenJJ
This. Folks can hate on Houston all they want (and I’ve been known to do so) but if you compare them to his preferred options they have as good of chance of playing in October as any team on his list, less travel, and no state income tax.
stwawk
Can. TRASH can organization.
BKS1110
Yes, eight straight playoff appearances, four pennants, two rings, what a trash organization, who would want to play there when you could play for the Angels?
bmp010
Wow
NYCityRiddler
He wants to WIN a Championship not lie, cheat & steal one. Ahahahaha!
NYG4246
Yankee fan here. The Astros “cheating” scandal is so ridiculous and never bothered me. Players have been stealing signs since baseball was born. They found a new way to do it. It wouldn’t be hard for the opposing battery to change their signs if they suspected the signs were being picked off.
ChiSoxCity
Something one would expect a Yankees fan to say. They’re the biggest cheaters in MLB history, and do it more than anyone. The league office ignores it when they’re caught because the organization is a cash cow.
Jbigz12
Kinda agree here. Tech is used for everything. I’d anticipate someone looking to take the advantage that way. There wasn’t much anything in place to stop it.
wanderslust
The crime in that Astros scandal is that none of the people involved had their careers derailed except Jeff Luhnow – MLB’s sacrificial lamb. Yes, he’s ultimately in charge, but there wasn’t evidence he knew what was happening. The fact that he should have known merits a fine, maybe a suspension, but a ban?
Lankster19
Ha!
Joe says...
Considering it looks like the Astros are taking a step back this season, I’m surprised they were after Arenado.
Rocker49
Not paying an overrated Bregman $200 million and finding out Tucker will cost $500 million and trading him for a prospect in return that you badly need is not taking a step back, it’s good decision making.
Joe says...
It’s not a full on rebuild but they are letting go of some very good players. I never said it was a bad decision.
stwawk
They can ship out Altuve to some NL
team. I’m sure the Dodgers will take him. They’ve got unlimited resources, after all.
orbitsbrother
Ya, not sure why everyone thinks that. They only had Tucker for like half the season last year and still easily won the West.
Bobcastelliniscat
Weak division
websoulsurfer
It will still be a weak division in 2025.
NYG4246
The dynasty patriots played in a weak division too. You don’t pick who you play, you just go out and play them.
old elpaso
If you had to trade Tucker, refuse to overpay for Bregman (which are both understandable), and can’t trade for someone like Arenado, then Houston should consider waiting for the dust to clear to see what kind of return Valdez and Yordan can get via trade.
The division is improving and will continue to do so. Maybe the rebuild won’t be like their last one.
stymeedone
It can’t be like the last one. They made rule changes to prevent tanking like that.
websoulsurfer
Anytime a team lets go of 10 WAR, its a step back.
Schlootle
Their front office is adamant that they are still going to compete this year. The Tucker trade wasn’t a confirmed step backwards like everyone thinks it is, although it does impact 2025 pretty hard. Astros pitching is good, I think if they make 2 moves to acquire bats then they will be in a good position in a weak American League. If this was the NL then I’d say they are screwed. I was surprised to see they were trying to trade for Arenado still, they have no farm system and there isn’t any way they are trading Cam Smith right?
Joe says...
They’ve also been reported to be possibly shopping Valdez and Pressly.
Schlootle
The Valdez rumors were never that seriously shopped around from what I have read. Pressly however is definitely one they are trying to dump to save on some money. He has struggled quite a bit the last 2 seasons
ReyDay
Definitely not trading Cam Smith, that’d essentially make the trade Tucker for Isaac Paredes, Hayden Wesneski, and Arrenado which doesn’t seem like they got better in the short term or long term.
Seamaholic
If they trade for Arenado it would be just taking the salary. Nothing even remotely close to Cam would be going back.
JackStrawb
The Tucker trade barely affects 2025 at all. Swapping him out for Paredes costs the Astros about a win this season, maybe a win and a half, but in the overall they’re 90% to win the trade once careers are said and done.
As for whomever deals for Arenado, he should cost nothing but money and at most a very fringy prospect worth next to nothing. 3/50m for a 2-3 win player in steep decline, at an age when players typically fall of the proverbial cliff, is a high enough price.
Arenado may never have even one more season when he’s worth a lineup slot. The chance he’ll put up three such seasons, three 2-win seasons making him worth $50m, is small. Why would anyone throw in a useful prospect on top of that risk?
Dustyslambchops23
There is still a path to a division next year, yes they won’t be as good as last year offensively but that division up for grabs, no powerhouse team
Mehmehmeh
Hou fans aren’t too sad about this. He can throttle down with Anaheim.
fw46809
Agreed.
Fenway 1
Some players don’t like cheating I guess?
Fenway 1
Cough cough Alex Bregman
Tom E. Snyder
LOL. Says a Red Sox fan.
orbitsbrother
No way a Red Sox fan is making a cheating joke.
Fenway 1
It was the clubhouse kid. You gonna deny Bregman?
Justanotherstrosfan
Actually, if we’re going to get down to the brass tax of things, it was YOUR MANAGER Alex Cora that was a huge mastermind along with Beltran. Cora liked it so much he took the same cheating system to Boston when he got that gig. I think I will just leave this right here…
all in the suit that you wear
MLB’s investigation of the 2018 Red Sox went on for months and uncovered no evidence of cheating. They admitted this in their report when they said they have a “factual dispute”, “largely have no direct evidence” and “no written record, recording or other contemporaneous evidence of the underlying events”. If there was any evidence, the facts would not be in dispute. The conclusion of cheating “on at least some occasions” was clearly based on speculation as MLB’s investigation failed to document a single occasion of cheating by admission, eye witness or any other means. Reporters have unfortunately focused on the conclusion and not the lack of evidence and few have read MLB’s report. The report is still available on MLB.com for all to read. If you look at Mookie’s stats from 2018, he had a crazy high BAbip, but also struck out the most to that point.
JackStrawb
“If there was any evidence, the facts would not be in dispute.”
You really need to reconsider that sentence.
all in the suit that you wear
Please elaborate, Jack.
websoulsurfer
The Red Sox were penalized by the league for doing the same thing as the Astros, except with a smart watch and a trainer sending signs to the batter. Then they hired Cora who at the center of the cheating in Houston.
websoulsurfer
MLB’s investigation found that the Red Sox cheated in 2017, the same year the Astros did. They only fined them because the Red Sox stopped when the Commish sent out a memo to the teams in September of that year. The Astros didn’t stop because the FO didn’t even share the memo with the manager and players.
“In a statement issued in September 2017 after MLB’s investigation, Manfred laid out the consequences: The Red Sox were found to have been using electronic equipment to steal signs and would face a fine. It was later revealed that during the course of the investigation, MLB learned that the Yankees had previously engaged in a similar scheme. Manfred also sent a memorandum on sign stealing to all baseball clubs in the league that this type of behavior would not be tolerated and put general managers and managers on notice that they would be held accountable in the future.
Little did the world know that at the same time that the Red Sox were penalized for stealing signs, the Houston Astros were also stealing signs in a similar way”
all in the suit that you wear
Websoul: I only commented about 2018. The Apple watch incident was in 2017 as was Cora cheating on the Astros. In the Apple watch incident, signs were sent to a trainer in the dugout wearing an Apple watch and the signs could be used when a runner was on second base. Cora was not found to have cheated in 2018 during MLB’s investigation and he was only punished for his actions in 2017.
all in the suit that you wear
Websoul: Yes, the Red Sox cheated in 2017. I never disputed that. I was discussing 2018.
websoulsurfer
The Red Sox cheated. Their manager was the mastermind of the cheating in Houston. The discussion was not about which year, only you mentioned that.
all in the suit that you wear
Websoul: Incorrect. 2018 entered the conversation when justanotherastrosfan said Cora cheated in Houston and “took the same cheating system to Boston when he got that gig”. I responded to that with the results of MLB’s investigation into the 2018 Red Sox – that’s the year Cora got the gig.
Misty Moobs
The Red Sox never had a player cheat. Alex Bregman is clearly the biggest cheater of all time
Fenway 1
Maybe you could argue Marwin Gonzalez, but he’s the man so…
WeggieJackson44
Yet they got in trouble for 2018 and Mookie coincidentally hit 52 points higher and won an MVP???
Uncle Pedro’s Dancing Kittens
I think of the worst offenders during the steroid years as being the biggest cheaters of all time. Not thrilled with Red Sox being associated with any cheating scandal and there were definitely some people who made some bad choices, but everyone has the right to redeem themselves and make up for poor decisions.
BronxBombers23
“My name is Alex tipping a waitress $500 and showing it on YouTube Bregman. I’m such a great human being!“ I hope no one calls me antisemite….
DanUgglasRing
Ortiz was sauced out of his mind but ok
HalosHeavenJJ
yeah, those David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez guys didn’t play for the Sux.
Nor did anyone on their 2018 team.
all in the suit that you wear
Nor do you have any evidence.
Uncle Pedro’s Dancing Kittens
Obviously not a Red Sox fan, which is fine. Of course there were rumors about just about every big guy who hits a ton of homeruns, but unlike some there was never anything more than rumors about Ortiz. Doesn’t mean you can’t have your opinion, and I will have mine.
websoulsurfer
Misty that is 100% wrong.
websoulsurfer
Here is the commissioners report – img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglr…
Here is a great article that lays it all out
pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/sign-stealing-baseb…
Dogbone
Altuve- don’t forget him.
Greenmachinelickitclean
Why would he be called an antisemite ?
Uncle Pedro’s Dancing Kittens
Not sure if you were responding to me. I was not questioning whether the Astros were guilty of sign stealing, that was clearly proven. I was only saying that it was only rumors about Ortiz using steroids. My earlier point was that in my mind those who were confirmed to be using steroids were some of the worst cheaters in the game. That doesn’t mean I don’t think the sign stealing incident was wrong.
Fenway 1
Next your gonna say the Patriots cheated. We never deflated those balls!!!
Misty Moobs
You are so right!!!!
Misty Moobs
Maybe if Bregman was quarterback I would believe the Pats cheated.
kcmark
The Chiefs don’t cheat. They just own the refs.
Fenway 1
You’re arguing?? Look at your account buddy!!
Rhino
Cough, Cardinals cheated in 2017 and were penalized. Cough cough.
Rexhudler86
@rhino because luhnow didn’t change his password, but he also came from the cardinals. So I don’t get your point.
orbitsbrother
And that was much worse than anything the Astros and the rest of the league did stealing signs.
TJW
Luhnow took proprietary information from the Cardinals when he went to the Astros. He’s the worst snake in the whole scandal.
ElitebFour3
You misspelled Dynasty
Jimbo_Jones
Maybe it’s Texas, he’s from southern California
bronyaur
Houston is a craphole. One big strip mall, nothing but traffic and zero culture.
Pete'sView
Yeah, but they’ve got plenty humidity.
case
And a very respectable attorney general.
HankHollywood
Strip mall thing , yes. Zero culture is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard someone say about Houston. In fact it’s the complete opposite.
Blue Baron
And Dubya Bush, who has come to look like a great president compared to Trump.
danrobertori
Trash cans are louder in Houston. Gives a good home field advantage I’ve noticed.
Acoss1331
Astros are still a team that will be competitive next year, not sure why he didn’t like the trade. He can’t be too picky here, there’s only so many spots he can land.
Schlootle
He could also just sit tight in St Louis and ride out his contract.
spudchukar
Exactly! He accepted late payment from Colorado to come to St. Louis. Hardly his fault for wanting to move to a winner, which I for one do not think Houston is a sure thing. Plus unless the Cards get a deal to their liking, they can wait, as can Arenado.
Seamaholic
What does “accepted late payment from Colorado” mean? The Cards are paying his deferred money and the extra year, not the Rockies.
JackStrawb
In a weak division the Astros are a solid bet to be in it all the way.
The Cardinals paying down just 5m a year means they’ll be content giving Arenado away. How much surplus value does a 2.5 bWAR 3Bman in 2023-24 have for his age 34-36 seasons, the seasons where HOF careers go to die?
BITA
They might be competitive but he wants to go to a winner. They just traded Tucker. They are clearly taking a step back.
revolver
Not as big a step back as the Cardinals
BITA
The Cardinals have a decent farm system with talented young players. The Astros do not.
TJW
Maybe he has visited Houston and does not like 110% humidity?
BITA
Have you ever been to St Louis? I assume you have not…..
TJW
I have spent a lot of time in both cities. No way does St. Louis compare to Houston in mugginess. (Now, muggings, that’s something different…)
BITA
Dude it’s ultra humid in St Louis. It’s nasty in the summer. And doesn’t the park in Houston have a dome?
CardsFan57
People who think St Louis is humid have never been to the Gulf coast in the summer. It’s much worse
Seamaholic
St Louis is way worse. Houston is on the coast and they play in a dome anyway.
TJW
Now I’m guessing you have not been to Houston. Why do you think they have a dome and everyone there lives indoors 365? I have lectured at U of H in October, and it’s still worse than StL in August. The number 1 product sold in pharmacies in Houston is body powder! Shelf after shelf of the stuff…
kcmark
And there’s no NFL or NBA in St. Louis.
revolver
Is there in Houston?
Bart Harley Jarvis
Or, maybe he has visited Houston and it’s in Texas?
Ezpkns34
The StL/Hou humidity argument is easily solved by looking online. Houston is noticeably more muggy throughout the year
roob
That’s shocking to me. Can’t imagine why a player would want to give up playoff opportunities. Unless, he thinks he’s going to the Mets or Yankees and he prefers NY? He’s a California guy but I don’t see any Cali teams going after him.
Big whiffa
Could be media posturing for more money. I think he’s a good fit in Houston!
This one belongs to the Reds
Looking for an extension first, most likely. Wouldn’t be the first time.
BITA
Dodgers, Mets and Yankees imo are where he wants to go. Those are probably the 3 best teams on paper heading into 2025.
Seamaholic
He’s probably just trying to extract some more money, like he did for the first trade. Playoffs are just more games and less time on vacation for almost all of these guys. Granted, Arenado might be an exception (he’s an odd, edgy, super intense dude).
Gwynning
Funny roob, but of all Californian teams I’m thinking the A’s have the best shot at rostering Arenado!
slider32
Goldy and Arenado are good fits for the Yanks! Short terms and quality even with declining returns! I also like Kim, he can play anywhere and gives the Yanks even more versatility!
johncoltrane
Why wouldnt he wanna go to a perennial winner?
BITA
Because they just traded Tucker and their windows is closing
Dustyslambchops23
Tucker missed half the season last year and they still found a way. Still a lot of good pieces
moneedstogo
Because it’s the Astros
sports_fan9921
He wants to get paid to waive his no trade.
BITA
No he wants to win. Thats it. He wants to win. The guy is high strung it’s not an act he really wants to win.
Seamaholic
You don’t know that. They all say that because that’s what the fans want to hear, and the fans pay their salaries.
TheBoatmen
Aren’t the Angels on his no trade list? Wants to win?
❤️ MuteButton
He wants to win? Oh, that’s why the Angels were on his list of approve teams
BITA
You act as if that list is legit. If he gets traded to the Angels you can say you told me so.
But he wont…..
revolver
It’s an act always has been. He’s a pos fraud , always has been ,look how he weaseled his way out of Colorado.
Seamaholic
Players don’t care about that very much, although their agents train them well to say it repeatedly. That’s all in fans’ heads.
BITA
That’s nonsense. The guy wants to win. Period.
JackStrawb
So, so wrong. Of course most players care about playing for a winning team, especially a postseason team.
Ever play for a 70 win team year after year? It’s a nightmare.
walls17
Based
rickoppelt
Haha!!!
WestVillageTiger
It seems pretty clear that Arenado wants to either (a) play for a serious World Series contender in the Northeast or in Southern California, OR (b) just go home and play in Southern California.
Sometimes other people just don’t listen…
Cardinalsfan4ever
Good. I hope he stays in St Louis. He deserves to stay with a team he wants to be with and the Cardinals are not that far away if the pitching can be found.
swanhenge
Cards already said he’s getting traded
TJW
They cannot make such a declaration when the player has a no trade clause.
CKinSTL
Swan – Arenado has a full no-trade clause, so it isn’t a decision for the Cardinals to make.
swanhenge
Maybe I’m putting too much credence in the “It’s my intention to try” quote from Mozeliak. To me that sounds like he’s halfway out the door and Mo will find something Arenado will approve.
JackStrawb
It also sounds like something that will only be said when the player has evinced clear interest in moving on, and the player has also said ‘here are six teams I’d definitely go to and, by the way, if you strike out with them and a team’s interested that played at least .500 ball in 2024, let me know and we’ll talk about it.
websoulsurfer
Swan, Mo said that he had every intention to try to trade him. Arenado makes the final decision because of his full NTC.
TJW
I love the Cards, but we will not be fielding a competitive team during the remainder of Arenado’s career.
Champs64
How sad is that.
JackStrawb
@TJW Strange, in the context of having been a .500-plus team in 22 of 23 years from 2000 to 2022 and pipping .500 in 2024. Not an old lineup, either, though the pitching staff resembled an antique collection.
Seamaholic
He very obviously has asked for a trade. He only agreed to the St Louis move in the first place because he was desperate to leave Denver, the Cards were the only team that raised their hand, and Goldschmidt is a close friend of his. If you can’t see that, you’ve just got Cardinal-colored glasses on. The other teams know it.
TJW
Cards fan here and you are absolutely right.
JackStrawb
Forgetting the short season, it’s hard to believe a guy coming off a five year HOF peak fr 2015 to 2019 including five top 8 MVP finishes couldn’t find takers outside St. Louis.
What was it… 7/163m by the time they got the move ironed out, what with what the Rockies were chipping in? The following year Lindor, younger but with a lesser peak, would get 10/341m, and in short order more than a half dozen SS’s and 3B threatened $2 billion, combined.
revolver
SS are just worth more than 3rd base men . Quite a bit more actually.
Misty Moobs
Funny how he still doesn’t want to go even though they are finally losing the biggest cheater in baseball history. Well maybe a tie with Gerrit Cole the softest player in baseball history.
sports_fan9921
They are losing Barry Bonds?
websoulsurfer
I was going to say Alex Rodriguez, but Bonds fits the bill too.
phuckinphill
Looks like he doesn’t want to be associated ️
OrthoStice
Please God, let us find out all the details of this one. Would be fascinating to know whether the Cards were gonna buy some frinegy prospects, dump his salary in total, or what. I mean, seems the Astros are trying to be cute this off-season and this is prolly a big wrench into their plans.. the tears when if the team is DOA next year will be so delicious.
SFBay314
Good for him, it’s a no-trade clause for a reason, not a GM-picks-where-you-go clause.
He should continue to block trades until he gets what he wants, don’t like it? don’t sign deals with no-trade clauses..
BITA
I don’t think the Cardinals actually want to trade him so if he doesn’t approve a deal so be it. It’s not like the team is trying to trade him on their own they are doing it because he asked to be traded.
Seamaholic
Ding ding.
SFBay314
Just because he asks doesn’t mean they have to try to trade him.
stymeedone
It seems its the team that wants to cut his salary. They asked him for a list. He provided it. They want either Walker or Gorman to play 3B.
Champs64
Joel, I cannot believe that you feel like the Cardinals don’t want to trade Arenado. They clearly do and they will get nothing in return and pay 15 million to do so. They may call it a reset all they want but it is going to be a long while before they win another division title. They also wanted to remove Gray and Contreras from the roster.
BITA
They are only trying to trade him because he asked for a trade. That’s it.
They didn’t want to trade Gray or Contreras that was just a rumor flamed by a site that is run by Cubs fans.
The Cardinals have a better shot at winning than the Astros do the next 3 years.
Champs64
So when Gray and Contreas said they wanted to stay it was not because MO asked them if they would drop their no trade clause. Riiiight…..
old elpaso
@BITA – Cards don’t have better shot the next 3 years.
Neither have a shot rn
BITA
When did they say they wanted to stay?
Just a rumor
BITA
The Astros are in trouble. The Cardinals could back in it with a bit of luck the next couple years. Astros no chance.
Champs64
How about the Cardinal website for starters, and the Post Dispatch. Now the brass may not have asked them if they would drop the NTC, but clearly they asked them if they wanted to remain during the reset as they call it. Otherwise it would have never come out that both Willson and Sonny said they wanted to stay. Not once have I heard from anyone in the FO that they would be competitive.
BITA
You have no idea what they will get in return. The Astros might have offered to include Paredes. You don’t know stop acting like you do.
twopitchmix
I think BITA is just blackpink under a different account let’s just save our breath
twopitchmix
He actually has not asked to be traded, it’s something the Cardinals approached him about during the Rockies series right before the 2024 season ended. Derrick Goold and other STL reporters have come out and said this. Arenado responded to Mozeliak by saying he’s open to what the GM wants to do, which is a trade because he’s never won and the Cardinals won’t be doing that soon. John Mozeliak wants to drop payroll because they aren’t winning & they want to open up 3rd for Gorman, Sagesse or Donovan
BITA
The drop in payroll is coming from the free agents not coming back. I don’t think they want to trade him.
twopitchmix
Mozeliak, and maybe Dewitt Jr. too, wants it to come from both. The free agents are definitely part of it but Mo has come out and point blank said that he brought up the idea to Arenado. They probably don’t want to do it but I suspect its payroll politics and wanting to give young guys AB’s
BITA
I think Arenado wants out. I dont care who brought it up recently Arenado brought it up first. I dont think the team wants or needs to cut any more payroll than they already have by not pursuing their free agents.
We will see. I think something will happen soon.
Druuu
My guess is he saw what they’d be getting in return and realized how bad it would make him look.
spudchukar
Sorry but that is inane! You don’t know Arenado and his desire.
Lindor's Bodyguard
He has no interest in trying to fill the void left behind by Bregman’s .315 OPS.
davemlaw
Arenado earned the right to say no.
I don’t understand why the Cards would go through the motions without consulting him about Houston first. It’s a phone call, “hey, would you consider playing for the Astros?” 2 minute convo.
At this point, with all the Cards who have NT clauses like Sonny Gray, St Louis should just go after value players this year and go for it. The Central is still up for the taking. When they ZIG you ZAG.
Big whiffa
Sometimes the agent tells the player to decline for financial compensation. They may circle back around and pull this off. Houston wasn’t on arenados list thou
thickiedon
You mean like Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson?
spudchukar
Both pitched pretty well in 2024.
thickiedon
Spud, agreed. STL let both walk. They at least had good trade value, especially in current market
JackStrawb
@spudchukar Yup, solid, cheap pickups for a team in dire need of average-ish innings going into 2024. It seemed like the Cards in a day (I know it was longer) added a respectable 1B-2 in Gray and two #4s (or a 3 and 4 if you squinted) and got 450 innings back.
Smart moves by a team that needed to move quickly.
revolver
They sucked
Champs64
It is all about the money. They are going to become Milwaukee2.0 in the future. That will be the good news if they can gain some intelligence in the front office. They will not compete with how some teams can spend.
Tacoshells
Wow feels like the e rod situation all over again
swanhenge
Boom, roasted
Lindor's Bodyguard
Arenado says he doesn’t want to sully his untarnished reputation in Houston.
Blah blah blah
whenever this sort of thing happens, I am always curious what the trade package would have been. Because it puts us on an alternate timeline.
Seamaholic
No one was in it whose name you’d recognize, that much I can tell you. It would be similar to the Bellinger return.
Dogbone
And I can’t wait until they find an everyday position for Gorman. LOL, that will be fun to watch.
JackStrawb
The Astros were willing to toss in a second bag of balls.
Seriously—3/50m for an ancient 3Bman in steep decline? They’d be lucky to get 50m worth of value back, never mind any surplus. The Cardinals should be the ones throwing in a prospect.
midway_monster85
Knowing he has a full no trade clause why wouldn’t they talk to him first, and find out where all he would accept a trade to before negotiating with other teams.
DarrenDreifortsContract
No one respects that franchise.
orbitsbrother
Most respected team in the league. Kept their mouths shut when they could have thrown everyone else under the bus.
Candlestoked
Most respected? They cheated in the WS. Black Sox of the 21st century in most people’s opinion.
Casor_Greener
“No one respects that franchise…” The things haters tell themselves never ceases to amaze me…
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Good on Arenado. Astros are trash.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
Yes, all that success must be because they are “trash”. What a foolish comment.
King Floch
BTFO
Big whiffa
Got to be a positive sign for card fans ! It wasn’t going to be a pure salary dump ! Houston was going to have to give up some prospect capital to get him at 3-45 mil.
CKinSTL
What’s the gripe? Hitters have an advantage in Colorado. Nothing the player can do about it.. He still had some very productive offensive seasons with STL, so it’s not like he is a bad player.
JackStrawb
It’s more like that with a couple of very ordinary seasons he’ll be a good bet for the Hall of Fame
With 3B underrepresented in the Hall he probably deserves to go in even today, with slightly above the average 3B HOFer’s peak, 8 AS games, 10 Gold Gloves, 6 top-8 MVP finishes, and 2.58 career MVP shares—64th best all-time, all positions.
When you’re a borderline HOFer by age 33, that’s a helluva ballplayer.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Joey Votto is superior batter to Arenado by a wide margin and Votto is only a borderline hall of famer. Even as a 3B, if Arenado does not reach 400 homers or win a WS, I doubt he will make the HOF.
Arenado is a career 5 for 35 in the post-season with an OPS of 0.385.
websoulsurfer
Defense matters. That is why Arenado has a 4.7 WAR average over 12 years and Votto had a 3.8 over 17.
Arenado repeats 2024 for 3 more seasons and rides off into the sunsets on Newport Beach and his career WAR is the same as Votto’s in 2 less seasons.
Right now, Arenado is on the outside looking in as far as the HOF conversation goes. That could change if Arenado has even one more season with an OPS+ around 130. Not near his career highs, but good enough to put him up above the average 3B that is already in the HOF.
Votto is probably in. His career WAR is a tick low. His 7-year peak is above the cutoff. His WAR/162 is really close. If I had a vote, he would get it.
gbs42
35 postseason ABs mean almost nothing compared to over 6400 regular season ABs.
avenger65
There was a guy who played in St. Louis who didn’t hit much but played elite defense at short. Ozzie Smith still got into the Hall.
wanderslust
“By a wide margin?” Really? Arenado at 33 is what, about 8 career WAR behind Votto? He’ll surpass Votto’s career WAR at a harder defensive position. Don’t get me wrong – I love Joey Votto – he was a very smart and great hitter, and he deserves to be in the HOF. He’s just not better “by a wide margin.”
wanderslust
Let’s not forget Votto’s negative career dWAR.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Wander
Perhaps read a tad more carefully. I said Votto was a superior batter by a wide margin, not a better overall player by a wide margin.
Tigers3232
Votto was not superior by a wide margin. He got on base more often. Other than that in 5 seasons and 800+ more games he barely had more doubles, HRs, RBIs, etc.
Discount home games at Coors Field all you want, the stats still accumulate the same.
As far as HOF, if I was a writer and I had to choose between the 2 from current career totals, I’m taking Arenado. The value he was elite at his position with both bat and glove for the majority of his career. Doing do playing a more premium position and one of the best to ever play the position defensively.
mrmackey
I’m sure it didn’t help when they asked him in morse code they were beating out on a trash can.
just_thinkin
Spicy!
Butter Biscuits
Way to go Nolan lol F the Astros
playhard9
Well he has earned that, unlike most of the cardinals with no trade thrown in. Back to square 1 for Mozo. LAD or bust for John Snow lookalike Arenado.
Salzilla
Hey, good for Nolan. Stick to your guns, dude.
But the ball is rolling, he’s definitely getting traded now.
Craviduce
Astros might have 1 season left to contend for a wild card slot (more than likely they’ll miss the playoffs this season) They weren’t a dominant team this year, and will be missing Tucker and probably Bregman next season. Yes, Altuve is still viable, but he can’t carry the entire team and wear an electrical device under his shirt at the same time anymore….not at his age.
Astros farm system is barren. Nado is smart to not want to spend the next 3 seasons with the Stros….that’s Cards 2.0….only 2 years behind.
panj341
Throw enough money at him and he will go anywhere. Sounds like a good way to shake down the owner who was dumb enough to agree to this in the first place.
Schlootle
Its fun to speculate about why he doesn’t want to play for the Astros, but the reality is that he simply wants to be in California or the North East. Weird that among his confirmed teams that he would not block the Mets are there and the Yankees aren’t
Ronk325
Arenado was still a very hitter as recently as 2022 with the Cardinals. I don’t think he was a Coors Field merchant like some others. He just appears to be in decline now
Ronk325
Charlie Blackmon for sure. Trevor Story is possibly one as well but the jury is still out because he’s been constantly injured in Boston
gbs42
Dante Bichette, Coors Field merchant supreme.
Jaa1968
Don’t forget the Big Cat.
old elpaso
Vinnie Castilla
phillyballers
I almost forgot Trevor Story even existed… man that contract is terrible.
wanderslust
Vinnie Castilla – hoooome rrrrrun!
websoulsurfer
Donkey! One of the most fun players to interact with as a fan while he was on the field and just plain fun when you met him off the field.
Seamaholic
Being a Rockies hitter is actually a net negative, because the road games come with a bigger disadvantage (due to adjustment issues) than the home games give an advantage. When they leave Colorado for other teams, Rockies hitters tend to get slightly better. Arenado’s best season was with the Cards.
You should do some research before sounding off.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Ahahahahahaha!
derail76
He’s obviously waiting for the Dodgers to trade Gavin Lux, so they can move Muncy back to his best defensive position at 2B.
DarrenDreifortsContract
They wouldn’t have to trade Lux. It’s not like he’s making a lot of money. He just be moved to utility. Which I wouldn’t mind.
derail76
I could be wrong, but wasn’t there a really bad experiment with Lux in the OF? I could be thinking of someone else.
In nurse follars
Maybe he was being respectful to Bregman who is still negotiating for a big time contract. Maybe he didnt want to be used as a way for the Astros to apply low ball leverage. If Bregman was gone maybe a waiver of the no trade clause based on a whats in it for me negotiation would occur. I think he did Bregman a solid here.
TheGr8One
Maybe you’re way overthinking this. He has a list he will say yes to. Houston not on the list. It’s really that simple
In nurse follars
Nothing is that simple when hundreds of millions of dollars are in play.
stymeedone
Astros already acquired Paredes. Bregmans ship has sailed. If not Arrenado, they will get a 1B.
ArianaGrandSlam
Yes l would do the same.
screwball8
Good, rather he stay a cardinal then trade him to Houston who have a terrible farm system! Nothing worth bring back!
Astros_fan_in_Aus
That farm system has produced one of the best catchers in MLB and one of the best shortstops (WS MVP) in the last couple of years. It is true that they have nobody on the MLB top 100 lists, but many of those guys will never make it anyway..
Will Wagner was traded to BlueJays in the Kikuchi trade and he hit .305 with 788 ops last season. It’s true that the farm system is not top shelf, but Houston seem to find a way to improve some of these guys and make them MLB ready.
(Houston AAA affiliate also won the championship last season)
JackStrawb
It’s hilarious to think Arenado at his age and contract will warrant a significant prospect in return.
“But he used to be great!” is about all you can say on his behalf.
BennyG1919
Great reporting job by all the “insiders” talking about how he was gonna get moved… not a single one that I read said anything about a NO trade Clause… some people should be fired over this
Raymond Flagstaff
I read that maybe you should consider reading tlhe articles?
Astros_fan_in_Aus
The existence of a no-trade clause was mentioned in every article I have seen.
HatlessPete
Skill issue bruh. You either need to find better sources or learn to read gud. The ntc in arenado’s deal is basically common knowledge lol
old elpaso
Houston should be disappointed as he may have actually helped them compete in the ALW, but Nolan would really help BOS or NYY in the ALE
old elpaso
2025 will not be kind to HOU
SupremeZeus
SupremeZeus. 4 days ago
If prior reporting is to believed, Arenado is only willing to waive his no trade for 6 teams and Houston is not one of the 6. Mo was a rule maker when he landed Goldy and Arenado when their teams gave them away. Looks like Mo is finding out what it’s like to be a rule taker in a trade this time around.
Raymond Flagstaff
But but it comes with an apple watch!?
Seamaholic
Wonder who leaked that? Astros, Cards, or Arenado’s agent? Hard to discern an angle for any of them, to be honest.
Rexhudler86
@seamaholic. It’s goes to the mlb office, that why the writers break the news. That’s why they know he blocked it.
mad1
Good for him. Why play with a bunch of cheaters?
TheGr8One
He’s clearly location oriented and Houston isn’t it.
❤️ MuteButton
What a relief! I’m glad the Astros don’t have to run a “has been” out there… again (ref:J Abreu)
Reynaldo's
Even the A’s have a better public image than the Astros now.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
How many pennants have they won lately ?
Manfred Rob's Earth Band
And more importantly. How many pennants have they cheated at? Astros should be a leg up on that one also.
billysbballz
Who says no?
Cards send Arenado’s full contract if he waives his NT along with Brendan Donovan to the Yankees so that’s total of $78m
Yankees send Stroman, DJ, Grisham total of $53m plus 3 prospects
Warren or Hampton
Everson Pereira
Oswaldo Cabrera
stan lee the manly
Cardinals are not interested in anything even remotely close to this. The entire point of moving Arenado is salary relief (and if they eat most, it’s going to take an actual legitimate prospect) and Donovan is going to take a large overpay. Bringing in three past prime vets ain’t it.
old elpaso
Seems the Cards don’t want the 53M, probably just want prospects.
spudchukar
Cards aren’t sending Donovan for the group you suggest. He is a proven, terrific player, with unmatched versatility. They have no use for Stroman, DJ, or Grisham. Pereira can’t hit, and they have Sagesse. Cabrera can’t field and they don’t need him.
They have better pitching prospects than Warren. Must admit I don’t know much about Hampton, but still. Cards may be in a partial rebuild but the 2025 team will be competitive and the players you suggest wouldn’t make their roster. Will Gorman, Nootbar or Walker live up to their hoped for potential? Who knows, but I would choose them over the group you suggest.
cmanson
is Arenado calling out the Astros as bunch of assclowns without actually calling them out as a bunch of assclowns…..yup.
stymeedone
No. He simply turned down the trade. Any speculation on the reason is entirely yours.
casualfan
Hey, if the Cards are desperate, send him to Boston. If the Sox can grab him for pennies on the dollar, they can slide Devers over to 1B and move Casas to Seattle for some pitching. Sox IF D gets a little better and I think Nolan would go ok in Fenway. It’s not a huge commitment financially but I’ve no idea what the flotsam and jetsam the Cards would be happy to take back.
Devlsh
Cards aren’t desperate, but the player indicated he’s like to go to a contender and Stl I’m sure is happy to unload the contract in that case.
Puzzling that the team didn’t consult with Arenado before getting this far in discussions but if I were Stl, I’d just tell Nolan he’ll be splitting time with Nolan Gorman in 2025 as the team explores the future.
spudchukar
Idle threat.
HalosHeavenJJ
If you decline to go to Houston but you will come here, winning is obviously not your priority.
Nor do you care about taxes.
Just say you want to play near home and clear up the drama.
websoulsurfer
He named 6 teams he would accept a trade to. 5 are winners. One is a few miles from his home in SoCal. Playing in a stadium less than 20 miles from home while getting paid big bucks has to have some appeal.
HatlessPete
What drama lol? His list is his list for his own reasons. 5 teams that have strong competitive outlooks in addition to whatever vibes or x factor perceptions arenado may value for personal fit and a team super close to home. It’s not exactly hard to decode. People can and do care about multiple things when it comes to where they work. He doesn’t have to meet some kind of arbitrary standard of “consistency” to please random Joes in how he exercises his contract rights.
Niekro floater
“DENIED !!!” Could be using it as leverage for more compensation to wave no trade clause. Been alota places n Houston is the mother of all humidity.
cbraves
Can’t blame him for not wanting to go to the Trashtros.
baseballpun
Just keep him
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
Prolly doesn’t wanna wear the ugliest uniform in baseball….
Therealeman
My guess is Arenado wants assured playing time, viewed the Houston situation as fluid due to Paredes.
1999 MLB All Star MVP
I wish I could block any MLBTR post of Nolan Arenado blocking any trade. Lol
Low IQ Angels Management
Maybe he isn’t a fan of cheaters.
orbitsbrother
Didn’t St Louis have guy kicked out of baseball for cheating?
Low IQ Angels Management
Guy Fieri?
casualfan
Let’s be realistic about these things. If you are going to earn $300 mil before your 37th birthday, I would imagine you would like to choose where you live and work. If he’s from SoCal, maybe he wants to get back into surfing or something? I can squint and see the Yankees as they pretty much always make the playoffs. SD is out as they have Machado. Boston sort of makes sense but I’m not sure they’ll even make the playoffs(getting closer, but I’m not wholly convinced). The Angels stink so that’s just a hometown thing and of course the behemoth that is the Dodgers who I think anyone who wants a yearly shot at the title would like to play for.
JackStrawb
The Dodgers have no need for Arenado, and no need to take on a $17m AAV for three years for a 2-3 win player turning 34.
websoulsurfer
He lives in Newport Beach in the offseason.
Perksy
In this type of deal if it had gone through and the cards sent Houston $15-20m as it said. Does that money come off their luxury tax cap? Or would Houston still be responsible for the full AAV against the luxury tax? Or would it be just the actual cash/payroll.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
Each team is responsible for what they actually pay out. That is to say, any money paid by the Cardinals is included in their CBT calculations and is not included in Astros calculations
JackStrawb
@Perksy Very straightforward: It’s what the team itself is actually paying towards every player’s salary, where for multiyear deals it’s always the total being paid to the player by the team in question divided by the number of years of the contract. And if a team is trading a player and kicking in $15m total over three years, for each of those 3 years the team has $5m added to its LT figure.
There are odds and end having to do with the NPV of deferred monies, but in general the graf above covers most deals.
Perksy
Ah ok, thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it.
jaxcards
I can’t blame Arenado for exercising his rights. If he stays, I hope he rebounds. When Arenado came to Cardinals they promised to try and build a winner around Goldschmidt and Arenado. They had a pretty good team in 2022, and Goldy and Arenado did their part, but clearly the front office didn’t go for it when they had a chance. Even in 2024 they signed Sonny Gray, but only supplemented him with mediocre innings eaters and luke warm bodies for the bench. It is sad that the Goldy/Arenado era will end with nothing of note team wise to show for it.
JackStrawb
@jaxcards Ownership were fools if they didn’t understand they’d take a huge hit in 2023 compared to the 30.7 (!!!) bWAR they got from Goldy, Arenado, Edman, and Donovan in 2022. Turned out in ’23 they got something like 9.7 bWAR. from those four. That was a jolt, but what did they expect particularly with the first two in their 30s?
Still, what were they supposed to do? They got lucky in 2022, then got unlucky in 2023. About the only thing they could have done was added an ace prior to the 2023 season and pushed payroll to $200 million, but they still would have won at most 77 games.
The_Porcupine
While i think arenado would have bounced back somewhat, i would rather they pick up walker for 1b. Sign a couple cheap of like hayes and carlson. Theyd need to take some risks for some bounce back pitching, but i think that would certsinly keep them in the thick of the alwest tile chase.
enteluj88
Dude only wants to play for a team with an established third baseman for some reason.
Schlootle
I mean sitting on the bench for $25 million seems like a good deal to me
enteluj88
I’d be happy doing that, for sure.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Arenado was like “pow pow” trade rejected. “Not up in here”
desertbull
If the STL Cards are getting screwed i’m good with it.
whyhayzee
He would approve a trade to six teams: the Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Phillies, Mets, or Red Sox.
Is this complicated?
Yeesh.
Schlootle
Its more fun to speculate he holds a deep hatred for a team that has never slighted him
Viveleempireevil
Thank You whyhayzee! Why TF would they work out a deal with the Stos when they’re not on the list? Hoping the Evil Empire make a move here. They can always claim that Jazz is an…ahem…established 3B man.
AlanZ
Nolan saying he does not want to go to Houston as bad as my ex-wife telling me “You will never find another woman like me”. I SHOULD HOPE NOT.
Overpriced, guy on an extreme downslide of his career with his production falling majorly, where have I seen this picture before?
Bill Rogers
Derrick Goold in the St.L. Post-Dispatch noted that Arenado’s agent said he was looking for a team “with the throttle down” seeking a championship. To me the Astros trading Tucker and not signing Bregman both suggest that they do not have the throttle down. My guess is that Arenado figures that if the throttle’s only halfway, then he already has that with the Cardinals.
Moneyballer
Let’s face it, Arenado does not have a list of teams he’d go to….he has 1 team. Until that team steps up, this will be a recurring theme. Fyi it’s not the Angels.
benhen77
It’s the A’s isn’t it?
DigglinDickers
He probably didn’t want to join an organization known for cheating by wearing buzzers.
websoulsurfer
So that is why the Yankees are not on the list?
PistolPete44
Once he’s gone, does he go in the Hall of Fame as a cardinal?
benhen77
Blank cap, if he makes it at all. Too good for too long in Colorado.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Well considering he hasn’t hit 40 homers or batted .300 since leaving coors field. I would say he goes in as a rockie.
seamaholic 2
He finished 2nd in the MVP as a Card.
benhen77
Boras should take him for a nice dinner. Certainly helps Bregman’s case of Arenado stays in STL.
PeteRose’s Bookie
Maybe Nolan is holding out hope, Andrew Friedman dials his number.
casualfan
I’m holding out hope Andrew dials MY number. Surely the Dodgers could use a lefty junkballer who can possibly break 70mph on a good day! I’m all changeups, screwgies and gyroballs. I only need to work an inning to get that ring!
Rsox
Either Arenado really doesn’t want out, or he has a specific destination in mind
seamaholic 2
He wants more money or years.
Rsox
He’s entering his age 34 season with 3 seasons left on his deal and coming off of a career worst season. i doubt anyone is jumping at the chance to extend him
braves95 2
Shots fired @ Manfred
Astros_fan_in_Aus
If he has a no-trade clause and chooses to exercise it for any particular teams, we should just respect that decision and move on.
Nobody really knows why he made that decision, but it was his choice to make.
websoulsurfer
What fun would that be?
letitbelowenstein
Guess he has his reasons. Astros wouldn’t be my first choice, but they’d probably be in my top 10-12.
Blue Baron
lowenstein: I doubt anyone on here would be that picky.
slider32
Yep, a lot of Hall of Famers on this site!
JScottG
After Altuve, Yordan, that Astros lineup is anemic. Poor Yordan could walk 150 times or K 150 chasing all year pitchers pitching around him.
And with the team reportedly listening on Framber offers, Arenado is right in saying no way Jose!
That is a below .500 team in 25′.
JScottG
The Astros lineup sucks now and they may move Framber on top of that…
old elpaso
ASAP, while teams haven’t moved prospects
NotSure
Has anyone done an analysis of these large-scale deals for players coming out of Colorado and how they usually work out in the end?
seamaholic 2
Rockies hitters tend to improve when they leave Colorado. The adjustment from altitude to sea level is just murder when you have to do it 20 times a season. Also the organization is clueless and doesn’t help its own players. Arenado’s best season was with the Cards.
revolver
This is a load of BS that no one is buying.
just_thinkin
Love that they tried to trade him to a team explicitly not on his list. Like what did you expect would happen?
BITA
My guess is the Astros called and made an offer. The Cardinals liked the offer but then ran it by him and he said no. It’s not like the Cardinals were initiating this.
just_thinkin
Perhaps my good man! Perhaps!
sotaguchi
He’s boring to watch and he seems to always be hiding a bit of animosity just beneath the surface towards fans, or front office, or the city, or all of the above. Seems a lot like Colorado, except he realizes that repeating the same thing in St Louis won’t fly twice. Effectively he doom spiraled two organizations now. I hear he’s a “gamer”, lives and breathes baseball. But what I think I might see is a guy that always relied on pure talent without much adjustment. And underwhelming as a teammate. Any takers?
seamaholic 2
He’s an insanely hard worker too. He didn’t skate on talent. Famously, he was a bat-first SS when drafted and was terrible defensively at first when the Rox moved him to 3rd. He became one of the best of all time through sheer grinding. But yeah, he’s kind of a sullen, edgy, ultra-intense dude who breathes baseball and nothing else and seems to self-motivate through antagonism. I think that’s true of a lot of high end players in many sports. Larry Bird was like that.
sotaguchi
Actually I guess I’d revise that and perhaps what I see is an overachiever. Kudos to him for making it to the hall of fame with hard work. The optics aren’t great, which sucks, because when he became a Cardinal, it was exciting. He’s a great player. I actually hope he remains a Cardinal and all of this makes him play free with some kids on the team.
sotaguchi
And yes, I think he’s a HOFer
El Kabong
MEMORY LANE
Here are two quotes from February 1, 2021. That was the day Nolan Arenado was traded to the Cardinals.
Nolan Arenado: “I plan on sticking around. That’s my goal. I plan on staying here for a long time.”
John Mozeliak: “I’m sure a lot of teams wish they were sitting where we are today.”
seamaholic 2
Yeah he said I believe identical words when he signed his extension with the Rockies, and the Rockies GM at the time (whom Arenado now loathes) said pretty much the same thing as Moz.
El Kabong
seamaholic2,
Good memory. Here’s a continuation of the Arenado quote posted above.
“I said that once in Colorado, but truly, I mean, it,” Arenado said. “I expect to be here for a long time. I’m not worried about that.”
junkmale
He obviously wants to end his career at home in OC so he will definitely end up on the Angels.
OnlineFeatures
Lmao. Good on arenado. Nobody wants to play for those POS cheaters in Houston.
NoNeckWilliams
Just a reminder, fans pay the players. Owners are just the middlemen.
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
He told them he didn’t want to go to Houston and they are trying to trade him there anyway. Perhaps an additional year of club option with a $15M buy out deferred over five years might change his mind. But Houston would make St. Louis pay that new $15M.
Quinnap89
Arenado well done! Block a trade to a perennial contender each year to stay on the Cardinals. lol. He will never win a ring
A Raul Cassanova
No state income tax in TX, but dude ok with playing in Cali and paying that income tax. I’d rather have 80plus games in income tax free states than in CA.
sotaguchi
Well if that says anything it says he doesn’t care about the money and St. Louis has as good of a chance (weighted perhaps by the actual moving of life and new team, etc) as the Astros in his mind. Watch out. Arenado going to unleash the veteran win vibe for the kids in St Louis.
sotaguchi
Actually what St Louis needs is a little bit of the plot of Major League right now. He’s like Corbin Bernson but plays 3rd instead of short.
WillieMaysHayes24
Roger Dorn wasn’t a shortstop, he played 3rd base.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Prolly doesn’t want to go there then have to cover up for the too shy Altuve and his scheming ways
Rudy Zolteck
Beltran’s niece give you that one?
captainsalty
If he goes to the Angels, what position will Rendon play?
PutPeteinthehall
Same one he has been playing – riding the pines!
websoulsurfer
Bench warmer
enteluj88
“General malcontent”
WSnotAstros2017
As an Astros fan I really didn’t care for Nolan. Houston does not like Nolan’s. They dumped Nolan Ryan before should have.
But we will be lucky this coming season with anything.
Pitching: Does Framber carry the staff in a contract year. What will Brown, Arrighetti, Blanco look like. Does that guy they get in the Tucker trade make a dent. What happens with Garcia and McCullers. Most likely be lucky if pitch again. France? Javier is out for season most likely. Whether he fully even recovers enough.
Bullpen: ??? Do they upgrade here. Do they find anyone wanting Pressly.
First/3rd base: Am sure Parades will be third to start.
They probably platoon Singleton, Dezenzo, Caratini, Diaz or such for first unless get Walker or Alonso.
Bregman most likely gone. He wants more money but so far have not seen anyone really calling. Plus he isn’t making a dent with Houston. Will go into January or such most likely before he decides.
Outfield: WE have NO OUTFIELD PERIOD!! Dubon plays a lot there but need him back at Utility spot. Chas and Meyers stink. I doubt Chas explodes like Dana thinks. Meyers is a closer for D in 9th inning really. No offense.
Catching: Diaz, Caratini and if they use Salazar or not. If use Diaz and Caratini at first if do not pick anyone up. Or such.
WE will be rebuilding as Valdez may walk next season.
Not sure what will be with the AL West. Angels, A’s and Seattle and Texas and Us.
Niekro floater
He wants a free stdm suite to sweeten the pot.
Hego Damask
But……He’ll go to the Angels?….. Yeah…. The Angels just have to be hes favorite team growing up. I mean the Angels need a decent amount of work still and I just can’t imagine another reason to go there.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Don’t Fear the Cheater. And more cowbell
angelstew43
Off to the Angels!
MarkTwain60
There is a massive advantage between Matthews or Dezenzo at 3B compared to Arenado at 3B on a $/inning played. The odds of Arenado being a positive 4 WAR aren’t that great, and 2 WAR is a maybe, either. This is just a waste of internet musing over a used-to-be guy, who is wealthier than god.
thickiedon
Matthews could make his way up in 2025. But all this effort put into 3B upgrades (acquiring Paredes & Smith, possible trade for Arenado, talk of resigning Bregman, etc.) is a bit concerning. The hype of Matthews being the 3B of the future has dissipated. This is looking similar to the Pedro Leon situation
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Opportunity in HOU (still a playoff contender with a few additions) but Nolan is ticking to his Guns of the 6 team list.
He’s not gonna tell anyone in specifics his reasons – (maybe just some vague PR comment) but the CA location, uprooting his family, wife preferences (kids friends?) may be a deciding factor. This what FA and partial and Full No trade clauses are for.
It’s His Life. His decision
YaGottaBelieveAgain
sticking. Where’d that other sock go?
Repeat after Me Please . G is for Gleyber kids.
Welcome to Sesame Street, a new re occurring friend
E is for Error, D is for Distracted – Oh Nevermind
ManfredIsAJoke
Hahahaha. Good for him for not wanting to risk integrity and play for cheaters.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
Remember this from 2017 ?
“The St Louis Cardinals were stripped of their top two picks in this year’s amateur draft Monday and ordered to give them to Houston along with $2m as compensation for hacking the Astros’ email system and scouting database,”
The Saber-toothed Superfife
So, I suppose its common knowledge because he is a third baseman he is right handed and of course the Crawford boxes are in left feild?
Of course, everybody knows that.
By the way, why are they called the Crawford boxes?
Is that Carl?
Joan….
Who could pass that up…..
Sterlingadingadong
Nice! A contract should be honored.
GarryHarris
The Astros are far better off pursuing Yandy Diaz and/or Brandon Lowe. Less cost and more versatility.
seamaholic 2
They don’t play the same position as Arenado.
GarryHarris
Isaac Paredes can play 3B. Diaz and Lowe can man 1B and RF.
thickiedon
Eugenio Suarez
SHARKmapiro
I didn’t have time to read through the hundreds of comments here but let me ask this:
Are the Astros using the media to gain leverage in their negotiating with Bregman to lower his asking price? Apparently, they went full out to go after a replacement and the guy who’s rumored has all the power to say no. Which he did. So end of conversation. Or not? Now the Bregman team is faced with the decision to stick to their guns or realize teams, especially Houston, are looking elsewhere. Seems like a ploy to me, specifically because so much detail and reporting has been done on a non starter- Arenado can say no and did say no. Seems simple…or fake?
GarryHarris
I think the Astros already accepted that Alex Bregman won’t return.
Greenmachinelickitclean
Guess they didn’t learn anything from old washed up Jose Abreu
yankswang
Astros is a trash team after trading Tucker and lose Bregman in free agent.
Rudy Zolteck
Said the same after Springer, Correa, Keuchel, Cole, Tucker last year, etc. and still waiting
Astros_fan_in_Aus
Yep all that success certainly bears out your stupid comment.
Mlbfan78
How’s this for an idea, man has a no trade clause rather then spend hours talking to a team, talk to him BEFORE going into deeper talks to find out if he would approve a deal to that team if it’s not on the list of teams he already gave approval over.
Otherwise all you are doing is wasting time and generating bad blood when you don’t have to.
SHARKmapiro
Or maybe the media is blowing the whole idea that Houston wanted Arenado at all out of proportion. If Boras (maybe not involved here) can do what he does, why can’t GMs shill rumors through Passan and Rosenthal to do what they do.
Now, I love these rumour sites for what they are but spreading rumors can be valuable for both agents/players and teams.
GarryHarris
No one learned from the Eduardo Rodriguez DET to LAD no trade.
thickiedon
But Houston was originally on his accepted trade list? Arenado is just being a diva
RotiniRick
Just a bad look all around when this kind of stuff gets reported. Makes Arenado look prissy, makes Houston look undesirable and takes away a bit of negotiation power away from St. Louis.
thickiedon
How? Recent article states Arenado originally would’ve accepted trade to Houston. Houston remains a desirable place to play. If it wasn’t, please name a player that was itching to leave or didn’t try their hardest to resign.
websoulsurfer
Bregman.
bravesfan
Why would he want to go there? And why would they want him? Their lineup looks rough and the only reason people think they will be good is because their pitching looks ok and if their name/recent history. Cause honestly, they don’t look like a good team on paper and their future doesn’t look bright. He’d basically be going to St. Louis 2.0. And for their sake, why get older and pay just as much when you can fork out just as much for the “old” guys u already had that are just as good if not better? Idk… doesn’t make sense. In fact, they were younger, but still. And definitely don’t trade away prospects in hope at Louis will eat the contract. Brutal
thickiedon
Houston’s starting pitching is immensely underrated. I believe they set a record for lowest cumulative starting pitching ERA for the month of August.
Valdez, Arrighetti, Brown, and Blanco had stretches of complete dominance.
C.C. Kellygruber
If he wanted to win and that was his priority, the Angels would be nowhere on his approved trade list.
178iq
When a team is willing to “pay a player to play against them” we all know what that team thinks of that player. And that fact that he’s been barely hitting the league average past couple seasons is a big clue that either his bat is in serious decline or that his numbers were inflated hitting in Colorado.
seamaholic 2
He had his best career year while in St Louis.
C4Luke
he wanted a NTC, he uses his NTC, makes sense
Mikenmn
We sometimes forget, the players are human and have to want to go–and go to the place they’ve been traded to. If they’ve earned no trade through 10 and 5. or negotiations, it’s their right to say no for any reason, or even no reason.
thickiedon
So Houston was originally on his acceptable teams list. So much for the BS theory he didn’t want to go to a “tRAsH” organization
creacher
I love that he blocked a trade to Houston
websoulsurfer
Wow! A whole lot of political d-bags just went buh bye. 47 posts instantly disappear. Blessed peace.
Low IQ Angels Management
Wow! Cool story Karen. Me next! Me next!!
websoulsurfer
Ok. you never add anything to the conversation, so wish granted.
Low IQ Angels Management
/cry
websoulsurfer
I love that there are both flag and mute buttons to use on those people.
Low IQ Angels Management
Spoken like a true Karen snowflake.
Low IQ Angels Management
Nooooo I prefer Asian ladyboys over Russian femboys. That’s all.