The Cardinals are known to be looking to trade Nolan Arenado this offseason, but the talks are complicated by the fact that he has a full no-trade clause in his contract. Per a report today from Mark Feinsand, John Denton and Brian McTaggart of MLB.com, the Cards and Astros were in discussion on a trade to send him to Houston before Arenado informed St. Louis that he would not be waiving his no-trade clause to join the Astros. Katie Woo and Chandler Rome of The Athletic provided some additional details.
The Cardinals are planning for 2025 to be sort of a reset year, which has put Arenado’s name into trade rumors for the past few months. At the winter meetings last week, Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said that he intended to try to line up a deal. The idea would seem to be mutually beneficial. Arenado turns 34 in March and could get a chance to go to a club with more immediate aims of playing competitive baseball. The Cards would save some money and open up playing time to get looks at less established players like Nolan Gorman or Jordan Walker.
But as mentioned, Arenado gets a say in the matter via that no-trade clause. It was reported last week that he would approve a trade to six teams: the Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Phillies, Mets, or Red Sox. It wasn’t clear if that was an exhaustive list but the Astros weren’t on it. Per today’s report from Woo and Rome, that list originally included the Astros but they were removed, perhaps due to the recent Kyle Tucker trade and uncertainty around the Alex Bregman situation.
Speaking of Bregman, he has long been the third baseman in Houston, though there are some signs they are planning on moving on. In the years leading up to his free agency, they repeatedly said that they wanted to re-sign him but no deal ever came together. He is still unsigned but there was reportedly a gap in the negotiations, with the club offering him $156MM over six years while he was looking for something more in the $200MM range.
On top of that, the Astros made a big trade last week which arguably got them a Bregman replacement for the hot corner. In sending Tucker to the Cubs, the Astros got three players back, one of whom was Isaac Paredes. While Paredes has played all four infield positions, he’s played third base far more than the other three spots combined.
But in the aftermath of that trade, it was reported that the Astros were emerging as “a serious suitor” for Arenado. Since Arenado is renowned for his third base defense, the plan would presumably be to move Paredes over to first base, since that’s also a target area for Houston. Though it appears Arenado isn’t on board, which puts that whole plan on ice for now.
It’s not clear what the full deal was or why Arenado decided to put the kibosh on it. All reporting has suggested that winning is Arenado’s primary motivation with his theoretical next team and the Astros would seemingly fit the bill. Despite just trading Tucker, they are still planning to compete again in 2025 and have been one of the winningest clubs of the past decade. Perhaps his decision has something to do with geography, the Astros sign-stealing scandal or the Astros-Cardinals data breach scandal, though those would be just guesses. Woo and Rome’s report suggests that he wants more time to make his decision and this isn’t final.
Aside from Arenado blocking the deal, the most notable item in today’s reporting is that the Cardinals were apparently willing to eat money. Arenado is going to make $74MM over the next three years but $10MM is covered by the Rockies as part of the trade that sent him from Colorado to St. Louis. There are also some deferrals, which apparently drop the present day value of what’s owed from $64MM to about $60MM, per the MLB.com column. But the Cards were willing to include $15-20MM so that the Astros would only be on the hook for $40-45MM of that. The Athletic says the Cards were willing to eat $5MM per season for the rest of the deal, or exactly $15MM.
That’s a sensible position for the Cards to take. While lowering the payroll is a goal for their planned reset year, it’s already projected to be well below their recent spending levels. RosterResource projects the 2025 payroll to be almost $40MM below 2024 levels. Trading Arenado, even if they eat some of the money, would only widen that gap while allowing the club to get a more notable return in terms of young talent.
It also may have helped the Astros stay under the competitive balance tax, with RosterResource currently putting their number at $225MM. If they were to take on roughly three years and $45MM of Arenado’s deal, that would add $15MM to their number and put them right around the $241MM base threshold.
Now the major questions will be about what comes next for each club. Both reports suggest that the Astros and Cardinals will continue having discussions, but it’s possible that they may have to pivot to other options while they are still available, depending on how much time Arenado wants to make up his mind about Houston. The Astros could look to restart negotiations with Bregman or pivot to a first baseman like Christian Walker. The Cardinals could try to negotiate a new deal with one of the other clubs that Arenado is perhaps less hesitant about joining.
Arenado was an MVP finalist as recently as a couple of years ago but his offense has dipped in recent years. In 2022, he hit 30 home runs and slashed .293/.358/.533 for a 149 wRC+. When combined with his excellent glovework, FanGraphs credited him with 7.2 wins above replacement that year. But over the past two years, he has hit .269/.320/.426 for a 104 wRC+, barely above league average. He’s still been worth close to 3 fWAR annually in that time thanks to the defense, but it’s obviously a concerning drop. Most of his home runs come to the pull side, so playing in front of Houston’s Crawford Boxes could be a good fit for him, but he would have to want that.
First
Here is what I think – What a jerk?
Granted you can’t be asking too much from a player who you are deciding to trade anyways.
After all, the players have earned their rights
Exactly. And a full no trade clause is something that both sides agreed to. It’s a benefit afforded to him in his contract. STL had to realize he wanted a NTC for a reason.
He was a pain when CO traded him but as others have said, he deserves the right since it was agreed to. My guess is he knows where he wants to end and is waiting for that team to step up. That team is likely concentrating elsewhere at the moment.
i wonder who is that team?
We all know, Vergie… it’s the Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Phillies, Mets, or Red Sox. Poor Nolan, everybody he wants to play for doesn’t want him. I suspect he’ll end up in Philly- not sure why I feel that way but I do.
Maybe Mets or phillies? his 6 team list is weird
For sure. “I’ll play for these 5 in-it-to-win-it-mentality teams… orrrrrrrr the Halos.”
Granted, I believe the Angels were his favorite team growing up, and he practically went to a lot of their games… still a weird list, but justifiably so! Cheers
It’s not weird. I think he wants to live in one of the bi-coastal areas because those 6 have very similar politics. He’s been in a red state (Missouri) and I’m thinking his wife or girlfriend is a Democrat. There’s very little difference between Missouri and Texas but there’s a world of difference in politics and people between the coasts and the Midwest/Mid South
In about 45 days we’re all red states baby. And thank god.
The Phillies don’t need a regressing, overpaid, has been. Let the list of pretenders such as the mets, red Sox, Padres fill their depleted rosters with cardinal trash
Yes, it must be politics. He needs to leave Missouri in case his wife needs an abortion and he can’t afford to drive her to Illinois.
kingbum: I doubt it has anything to do with politics. Not everything does.
Why? He waived it once already to go to cardinals… if he doesn’t want to play for Houston he has every right to not do it
He waived it after extracting an extra year’s salary from the Cards.
It makes no sense that Houston would want that contract ,
As well as it makes no sense that Arenado wouldn’t want to go to Houston for the income tax break
He probably is trying to push for a west coast team. I understand having geography preferences. I know I would have them if I were as good as he is at baseball.
Which the cardinals didnt say no to…
my – The above article states he has already pre-approved potential trades to either the Red Sox, Phillies or Mets.
Pretty sure those teams aren’t located on the West Coast.
@goku
The article says the Cards were willing to eat some of the money so that the acquiring team only pays about $15-$20 mil per.
Assuming cards would be sending money.
Tax savings for players between states isn’t as impactful as one would think
Yes, because all decisions are based on income tax rates.
It’s not that much of a tax break. Now if it were CA or NY…
Arenado for Rendon and 15 mil from the Halos. Get er done Perry, you incompetent baboon.
Holding out for a trade to Anaheim where he can replace Anthony Rendon.
Sacramento A’s and Seattle Mariners have higher standards.
But not one of the 6 teams he agreed to go to!
Location location what do LA SD and ANA have in common? 80 miles ish tops? Sacramento not there Seattle not there. If not there then a pretty specific set of east coast teams. This is 100% location. Be close to family kids stuff.
No, he’s not. He is treating like a business, just like the owners.
You know first thought I said to myself. What a jerk…but after reading your comment i change my mind. Well said.
If treating it like a business he bypassed the opportunity to play 81 home games and 2 road series in a state with no income tax on a team likely to win a division and get post season exposure which leads to endorsement money.
He’s earned the right to determine where he goes. He simply doesn’t want to go to Houston.
And for some players, whether a state taxes income or not is of little import.
Yeah, I’d have to think that’s a lot bigger of a deal for guys getting 1 and 2 year deals who might have to live on that money for life vs. a guy with 9 digits guaranteed.
Maybe he just doesn’t want play there.
Money is important but not always the only factor.
1 road team now not 2
That they will play twice in Arlington.
Houston already traded Tucker, lost Bregman, and are listening on Valdez. They look like a team in rebuild/ or that should be in rebuild. Wouldn’t count on them winning the division, tho it could happen.
Ah road series nvm.
He’s a jerk for exercising his contractual right? That’s a super weird take.
And I think why? He has every right to not want to go there if he doesn’t
Good for him he didn’t want to play for a bunch of cheaters.
Here’s what I think — Good job Arenado!!
Hold Mozeliak’s feet to the fire.
He lied to you to get you to Opt-in to his contract. Told you the Cardinals would always be competitive and a Central Division contender throughout your contract.
“A man is just as good as his Word!”
That tells you what type of person the real John Mozeliak is.
Arenado has given Mozeliak an out on his no trade contract by listing 6 teams he’d drop that no trade to go to another team.
That’s reasonable!!!
If none of those teams are available, stay in St. Louis until Bloom takes over.
One would bet —- Bloom will be more trustworthy to work with.
Well said.
This guy should go back to Colorado and produce some more overrated inflated stats
I’m sure Colorado will gladly take him back for one slightly used Bryant
Might as well. They are still paying him.
What’s the gripe? Hitters have an advantage in Colorado. Nothing the player can do about it.. He still had some very productive offensive seasons with STL, so it’s not like he is a bad player.
It’s more like that with a couple of very ordinary seasons he’ll be a good bet for the Hall of Fame
With 3B underrepresented in the Hall he probably deserves to go in even today, with slightly above the average 3B HOFer’s peak, 8 AS games, 10 Gold Gloves, 6 top-8 MVP finishes, and 2.58 career MVP shares—64th best all-time, all positions.
When you’re a borderline HOFer by age 33, that’s a helluva ballplayer.
Arenado was still a very hitter as recently as 2022 with the Cardinals. I don’t think he was a Coors Field merchant like some others. He just appears to be in decline now
Who do you think are some coors field merchants?
Charlie Blackmon for sure. Trevor Story is possibly one as well but the jury is still out because he’s been constantly injured in Boston
Dante Bichette, Coors Field merchant supreme.
Don’t forget the Big Cat.
Vinnie Castilla
Being a Rockies hitter is actually a net negative, because the road games come with a bigger disadvantage (due to adjustment issues) than the home games give an advantage. When they leave Colorado for other teams, Rockies hitters tend to get slightly better. Arenado’s best season was with the Cards.
You should do some research before sounding off.
Excellent.
Until Houston signs Alonso to hit into the Crawford Boxes 81 games during the regular season.
Kidding.
Well, I hope they don’t.
It really would be a good landing spot for Polar Bear. Although, the middle of the Astros lineup isn’t quite as attractive or protected as a spot as it has been over the last 6-8 years. And I think he would be wise to join one of the super lineup teams in order to make sure he gets as many pitches to hit as possible.
I don’t think it matters much if Alonso had 81 games in Houston, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, etc. I remember the first game I went to in Boston, Boog Powell hit a check swing to the triangle…
That makes little sense. Pitchers in 2023 and especially in 2024 didn’t have to throw strikes to get Alonso to swing, and he swung at fewer strikes than nearly every other player in MLB. With 172 K’s in 2024 and extreme vulnerability to breaking stuff low and away, his strike zone judgment continues to get worse.
On top of that we’ve known lineup ‘protection’ is a myth since 1980.
Yeah, if Boog Powell did that, forget what I said.
Scared of the grind I see
It’s going down!
I wonder why
Maybe it’s Texas, he’s from southern California
The Astros lineup sucks now and they may move Framber on top of that…
ASAP, while teams haven’t moved prospects
He doesn’t want to join that TRASH organization.
I don’t like the Astros but i would much rather have a possibility of winning in Houston than waste away in St Louis with a team that clearly doesn’t want you around anymore. I also wouldn’t care about something that happened 7 years ago when I wasn’t on a team that was affected by it. To each their own I guess
@jesse. It probably because after this year the Astros might be rebuilding with Valdez leaving.
@rex
Could be, and I know moving isn’t easy so I understand. It’s not easy just picking up your life and moving many miles away. Just my thoughts, not trying to be argumentative.
@jesse. I gotcha. That’s my only guess is he thinks it’s going to be the same as st Louis. So why leave.
1.) The Astros won’t be rebuilding. They are actively working on extending their window of dominance.
2.) The Astros have a LOADED pitching rotation. If Valdez quit today, the Astros would STILL have a loaded pitching rotation. Trading Tucker stung. Not gonna lie. So will losing Bregman. But as good as Valdez is, I wouldn’t even notice he was gone.
Hunter Brown – Stud. Potential Cy Young threat. Every year he’s figured more out.
Ronel Blanco – Rookie last year, no hitter in first start, all star, dominant.
Christian Javier – 2 combined no hitters back in 2022 – including one against the Phillies in the WS. Invisible Fastball
Luis Garcia – Work Horse , ROY runner up
Lance McCullers Jr. – If he ever comes back from being injured, best curveball in the entire league, and a gamer.
Verlander – (if we resign him, I think we will.) 2 Cy young’s in the last 6 years.
Valdez who?
Pitchers don’t hit anymore
Clearly doesn’t want him around? He gave a pretty long list of trade candidates that didn’t inc. HOU. His agent also alluded to there being a few more unnamed teams. If they didn’t want him around, they’d worked out a trade (even for less) with one of those publicized teams he said he’d waive his NTC for. Now that he’s publicly turned down HOU, STL must try and work out a deal, possibly for less, with one of those.
@rundmc. It’s clearly the best offer for stl, and they tried. Now it’s down to next one on his list.
They trade for this guy and they go from a robust 88 wins to 80 tops.
I think you mean “trash can” organization.
Haha yeah why join the organization that has been in the post season consistently for the last 8 years, won 2 World Series, 4 AL pennants and operates in a state with no state tax. Sounds awful!
@rhino because they don’t sign anyone long term, and the farm is barren. They done it the past, that was with the different gm’s, and most of the scouts went to Baltimore.
But Nolan Arenado won’t need a long term contract again, so why would that affect him?
I think you meant Nolan Arenado won’t get a long term contract again.
@elitebfour. If you read the comment I’m replying to it will make sense. Water is wet like the void between your ears.
Because they’re about to be irrelevant again.
And they won one World Series.
The Astro organization is fine..but Texas? No, not even if they paid me.
This. Folks can hate on Houston all they want (and I’ve been known to do so) but if you compare them to his preferred options they have as good of chance of playing in October as any team on his list, less travel, and no state income tax.
Can. TRASH can organization.
Yes, eight straight playoff appearances, four pennants, two rings, what a trash organization, who would want to play there when you could play for the Angels?
Wow
He wants to WIN a Championship not lie, cheat & steal one. Ahahahaha!
Ha!
Considering it looks like the Astros are taking a step back this season, I’m surprised they were after Arenado.
Not paying an overrated Bregman $200 million and finding out Tucker will cost $500 million and trading him for a prospect in return that you badly need is not taking a step back, it’s good decision making.
It’s not a full on rebuild but they are letting go of some very good players. I never said it was a bad decision.
They can ship out Altuve to some NL
team. I’m sure the Dodgers will take him. They’ve got unlimited resources, after all.
Ya, not sure why everyone thinks that. They only had Tucker for like half the season last year and still easily won the West.
Weak division
It will still be a weak division in 2025.
If you had to trade Tucker, refuse to overpay for Bregman (which are both understandable), and can’t trade for someone like Arenado, then Houston should consider waiting for the dust to clear to see what kind of return Valdez and Yordan can get via trade.
The division is improving and will continue to do so. Maybe the rebuild won’t be like their last one.
It can’t be like the last one. They made rule changes to prevent tanking like that.
Anytime a team lets go of 10 WAR, its a step back.
Their front office is adamant that they are still going to compete this year. The Tucker trade wasn’t a confirmed step backwards like everyone thinks it is, although it does impact 2025 pretty hard. Astros pitching is good, I think if they make 2 moves to acquire bats then they will be in a good position in a weak American League. If this was the NL then I’d say they are screwed. I was surprised to see they were trying to trade for Arenado still, they have no farm system and there isn’t any way they are trading Cam Smith right?
They’ve also been reported to be possibly shopping Valdez and Pressly.
The Valdez rumors were never that seriously shopped around from what I have read. Pressly however is definitely one they are trying to dump to save on some money. He has struggled quite a bit the last 2 seasons
Definitely not trading Cam Smith, that’d essentially make the trade Tucker for Isaac Paredes, Hayden Wesneski, and Arrenado which doesn’t seem like they got better in the short term or long term.
If they trade for Arenado it would be just taking the salary. Nothing even remotely close to Cam would be going back.
The Tucker trade barely affects 2025 at all. Swapping him out for Paredes costs the Astros about a win this season, maybe a win and a half, but in the overall they’re 90% to win the trade once careers are said and done.
As for whomever deals for Arenado, he should cost nothing but money and at most a very fringy prospect worth next to nothing. 3/50m for a 2-3 win player in steep decline, at an age when players typically fall of the proverbial cliff, is a high enough price.
Arenado may never have even one more season when he’s worth a lineup slot. The chance he’ll put up three such seasons, three 2-win seasons making him worth $50m, is small. Why would anyone throw in a useful prospect on top of that risk?
There is still a path to a division next year, yes they won’t be as good as last year offensively but that division up for grabs, no powerhouse team
Hou fans aren’t too sad about this. He can throttle down with Anaheim.
Agreed.
Some players don’t like cheating I guess?
Cough cough Alex Bregman
LOL. Says a Red Sox fan.
No way a Red Sox fan is making a cheating joke.
It was the clubhouse kid. You gonna deny Bregman?
Actually, if we’re going to get down to the brass tax of things, it was YOUR MANAGER Alex Cora that was a huge mastermind along with Beltran. Cora liked it so much he took the same cheating system to Boston when he got that gig. I think I will just leave this right here…
MLB’s investigation of the 2018 Red Sox went on for months and uncovered no evidence of cheating. They admitted this in their report when they said they have a “factual dispute”, “largely have no direct evidence” and “no written record, recording or other contemporaneous evidence of the underlying events”. If there was any evidence, the facts would not be in dispute. The conclusion of cheating “on at least some occasions” was clearly based on speculation as MLB’s investigation failed to document a single occasion of cheating by admission, eye witness or any other means. Reporters have unfortunately focused on the conclusion and not the lack of evidence and few have read MLB’s report. The report is still available on MLB.com for all to read. If you look at Mookie’s stats from 2018, he had a crazy high BAbip, but also struck out the most to that point.
“If there was any evidence, the facts would not be in dispute.”
You really need to reconsider that sentence.
Please elaborate, Jack.
The Red Sox never had a player cheat. Alex Bregman is clearly the biggest cheater of all time
Maybe you could argue Marwin Gonzalez, but he’s the man so…
Yet they got in trouble for 2018 and Mookie coincidentally hit 52 points higher and won an MVP???
I think of the worst offenders during the steroid years as being the biggest cheaters of all time. Not thrilled with Red Sox being associated with any cheating scandal and there were definitely some people who made some bad choices, but everyone has the right to redeem themselves and make up for poor decisions.
“My name is Alex tipping a waitress $500 and showing it on YouTube Bregman. I’m such a great human being!“ I hope no one calls me antisemite….
Ortiz was sauced out of his mind but ok
yeah, those David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez guys didn’t play for the Sux.
Nor did anyone on their 2018 team.
Nor do you have any evidence.
Obviously not a Red Sox fan, which is fine. Of course there were rumors about just about every big guy who hits a ton of homeruns, but unlike some there was never anything more than rumors about Ortiz. Doesn’t mean you can’t have your opinion, and I will have mine.
Next your gonna say the Patriots cheated. We never deflated those balls!!!
You are so right!!!!
Maybe if Bregman was quarterback I would believe the Pats cheated.
The Chiefs don’t cheat. They just own the refs.
You’re arguing?? Look at your account buddy!!
Cough, Cardinals cheated in 2017 and were penalized. Cough cough.
@rhino because luhnow didn’t change his password, but he also came from the cardinals. So I don’t get your point.
You misspelled Dynasty
Trash cans are louder in Houston. Gives a good home field advantage I’ve noticed.
Astros are still a team that will be competitive next year, not sure why he didn’t like the trade. He can’t be too picky here, there’s only so many spots he can land.
He could also just sit tight in St Louis and ride out his contract.
Exactly! He accepted late payment from Colorado to come to St. Louis. Hardly his fault for wanting to move to a winner, which I for one do not think Houston is a sure thing. Plus unless the Cards get a deal to their liking, they can wait, as can Arenado.
What does “accepted late payment from Colorado” mean? The Cards are paying his deferred money and the extra year, not the Rockies.
In a weak division the Astros are a solid bet to be in it all the way.
The Cardinals paying down just 5m a year means they’ll be content giving Arenado away. How much surplus value does a 2.5 bWAR 3Bman in 2023-24 have for his age 34-36 seasons, the seasons where HOF careers go to die?
They might be competitive but he wants to go to a winner. They just traded Tucker. They are clearly taking a step back.
Maybe he has visited Houston and does not like 110% humidity?
Have you ever been to St Louis? I assume you have not…..
I have spent a lot of time in both cities. No way does St. Louis compare to Houston in mugginess. (Now, muggings, that’s something different…)
Dude it’s ultra humid in St Louis. It’s nasty in the summer. And doesn’t the park in Houston have a dome?
People who think St Louis is humid have never been to the Gulf coast in the summer. It’s much worse
St Louis is way worse. Houston is on the coast and they play in a dome anyway.
Now I’m guessing you have not been to Houston. Why do you think they have a dome and everyone there lives indoors 365? I have lectured at U of H in October, and it’s still worse than StL in August. The number 1 product sold in pharmacies in Houston is body powder! Shelf after shelf of the stuff…
And there’s no NFL or NBA in St. Louis.
Or, maybe he has visited Houston and it’s in Texas?
That’s shocking to me. Can’t imagine why a player would want to give up playoff opportunities. Unless, he thinks he’s going to the Mets or Yankees and he prefers NY? He’s a California guy but I don’t see any Cali teams going after him.
Could be media posturing for more money. I think he’s a good fit in Houston!
Looking for an extension first, most likely. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Dodgers, Mets and Yankees imo are where he wants to go. Those are probably the 3 best teams on paper heading into 2025.
He’s probably just trying to extract some more money, like he did for the first trade. Playoffs are just more games and less time on vacation for almost all of these guys. Granted, Arenado might be an exception (he’s an odd, edgy, super intense dude).
Why wouldnt he wanna go to a perennial winner?
Because they just traded Tucker and their windows is closing
Tucker missed half the season last year and they still found a way. Still a lot of good pieces
Because it’s the Astros
He wants to get paid to waive his no trade.
No he wants to win. Thats it. He wants to win. The guy is high strung it’s not an act he really wants to win.
You don’t know that. They all say that because that’s what the fans want to hear, and the fans pay their salaries.
Aren’t the Angels on his no trade list? Wants to win?
He wants to win? Oh, that’s why the Angels were on his list of approve teams
You act as if that list is legit. If he gets traded to the Angels you can say you told me so.
But he wont…..
Players don’t care about that very much, although their agents train them well to say it repeatedly. That’s all in fans’ heads.
That’s nonsense. The guy wants to win. Period.
So, so wrong. Of course most players care about playing for a winning team, especially a postseason team.
Ever play for a 70 win team year after year? It’s a nightmare.
Based
Haha!!!
It seems pretty clear that Arenado wants to either (a) play for a serious World Series contender in the Northeast or in Southern California, OR (b) just go home and play in Southern California.
Sometimes other people just don’t listen…
Good. I hope he stays in St Louis. He deserves to stay with a team he wants to be with and the Cardinals are not that far away if the pitching can be found.
Cards already said he’s getting traded
They cannot make such a declaration when the player has a no trade clause.
Swan – Arenado has a full no-trade clause, so it isn’t a decision for the Cardinals to make.
Maybe I’m putting too much credence in the “It’s my intention to try” quote from Mozeliak. To me that sounds like he’s halfway out the door and Mo will find something Arenado will approve.
It also sounds like something that will only be said when the player has evinced clear interest in moving on, and the player has also said ‘here are six teams I’d definitely go to and, by the way, if you strike out with them and a team’s interested that played at least .500 ball in 2024, let me know and we’ll talk about it.
I love the Cards, but we will not be fielding a competitive team during the remainder of Arenado’s career.
How sad is that.
@TJW Strange, in the context of having been a .500-plus team in 22 of 23 years from 2000 to 2022 and pipping .500 in 2024. Not an old lineup, either, though the pitching staff resembled an antique collection.
He very obviously has asked for a trade. He only agreed to the St Louis move in the first place because he was desperate to leave Denver, the Cards were the only team that raised their hand, and Goldschmidt is a close friend of his. If you can’t see that, you’ve just got Cardinal-colored glasses on. The other teams know it.
Cards fan here and you are absolutely right.
Forgetting the short season, it’s hard to believe a guy coming off a five year HOF peak fr 2015 to 2019 including five top 8 MVP finishes couldn’t find takers outside St. Louis.
What was it… 7/163m by the time they got the move ironed out, what with what the Rockies were chipping in? The following year Lindor, younger but with a lesser peak, would get 10/341m, and in short order more than a half dozen SS’s and 3B threatened $2 billion, combined.
Funny how he still doesn’t want to go even though they are finally losing the biggest cheater in baseball history. Well maybe a tie with Gerrit Cole the softest player in baseball history.
They are losing Barry Bonds?
Looks like he doesn’t want to be associated ️
Please God, let us find out all the details of this one. Would be fascinating to know whether the Cards were gonna buy some frinegy prospects, dump his salary in total, or what. I mean, seems the Astros are trying to be cute this off-season and this is prolly a big wrench into their plans.. the tears when if the team is DOA next year will be so delicious.
Good for him, it’s a no-trade clause for a reason, not a GM-picks-where-you-go clause.
He should continue to block trades until he gets what he wants, don’t like it? don’t sign deals with no-trade clauses..
I don’t think the Cardinals actually want to trade him so if he doesn’t approve a deal so be it. It’s not like the team is trying to trade him on their own they are doing it because he asked to be traded.
Ding ding.
Just because he asks doesn’t mean they have to try to trade him.
It seems its the team that wants to cut his salary. They asked him for a list. He provided it. They want either Walker or Gorman to play 3B.
Joel, I cannot believe that you feel like the Cardinals don’t want to trade Arenado. They clearly do and they will get nothing in return and pay 15 million to do so. They may call it a reset all they want but it is going to be a long while before they win another division title. They also wanted to remove Gray and Contreras from the roster.
They are only trying to trade him because he asked for a trade. That’s it.
They didn’t want to trade Gray or Contreras that was just a rumor flamed by a site that is run by Cubs fans.
The Cardinals have a better shot at winning than the Astros do the next 3 years.
So when Gray and Contreas said they wanted to stay it was not because MO asked them if they would drop their no trade clause. Riiiight…..
@BITA – Cards don’t have better shot the next 3 years.
Neither have a shot rn
When did they say they wanted to stay?
Just a rumor
The Astros are in trouble. The Cardinals could back in it with a bit of luck the next couple years. Astros no chance.
He actually has not asked to be traded, it’s something the Cardinals approached him about during the Rockies series right before the 2024 season ended. Derrick Goold and other STL reporters have come out and said this. Arenado responded to Mozeliak by saying he’s open to what the GM wants to do, which is a trade because he’s never won and the Cardinals won’t be doing that soon. John Mozeliak wants to drop payroll because they aren’t winning & they want to open up 3rd for Gorman, Sagesse or Donovan
The drop in payroll is coming from the free agents not coming back. I don’t think they want to trade him.
My guess is he saw what they’d be getting in return and realized how bad it would make him look.
Sorry but that is inane! You don’t know Arenado and his desire.
He has no interest in trying to fill the void left behind by Bregman’s .315 OPS.
Arenado earned the right to say no.
I don’t understand why the Cards would go through the motions without consulting him about Houston first. It’s a phone call, “hey, would you consider playing for the Astros?” 2 minute convo.
At this point, with all the Cards who have NT clauses like Sonny Gray, St Louis should just go after value players this year and go for it. The Central is still up for the taking. When they ZIG you ZAG.
Sometimes the agent tells the player to decline for financial compensation. They may circle back around and pull this off. Houston wasn’t on arenados list thou
You mean like Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson?
Both pitched pretty well in 2024.
Spud, agreed. STL let both walk. They at least had good trade value, especially in current market
@spudchukar Yup, solid, cheap pickups for a team in dire need of average-ish innings going into 2024. It seemed like the Cards in a day (I know it was longer) added a respectable 1B-2 in Gray and two #4s (or a 3 and 4 if you squinted) and got 450 innings back.
Smart moves by a team that needed to move quickly.
It is all about the money. They are going to become Milwaukee2.0 in the future. That will be the good news if they can gain some intelligence in the front office. They will not compete with how some teams can spend.
Wow feels like the e rod situation all over again
Boom, roasted
Arenado says he doesn’t want to sully his untarnished reputation in Houston.
whenever this sort of thing happens, I am always curious what the trade package would have been. Because it puts us on an alternate timeline.
I am wondering as well especially with what Houston as in their farm
No one was in it whose name you’d recognize, that much I can tell you. It would be similar to the Bellinger return.
Desperate times in St Louis
The Astros were willing to toss in a second bag of balls.
Seriously—3/50m for an ancient 3Bman in steep decline? They’d be lucky to get 50m worth of value back, never mind any surplus. The Cardinals should be the ones throwing in a prospect.
Knowing he has a full no trade clause why wouldn’t they talk to him first, and find out where all he would accept a trade to before negotiating with other teams.
No one respects that franchise.
Most respected team in the league. Kept their mouths shut when they could have thrown everyone else under the bus.
Most respected? They cheated in the WS. Black Sox of the 21st century in most people’s opinion.
“No one respects that franchise…” The things haters tell themselves never ceases to amaze me…
Good on Arenado. Astros are trash.
Yes, all that success must be because they are “trash”. What a foolish comment.
BTFO
Got to be a positive sign for card fans ! It wasn’t going to be a pure salary dump ! Houston was going to have to give up some prospect capital to get him at 3-45 mil.
I’m sure it didn’t help when they asked him in morse code they were beating out on a trash can.
Spicy!
Way to go Nolan lol F the Astros
Well he has earned that, unlike most of the cardinals with no trade thrown in. Back to square 1 for Mozo. LAD or bust for John Snow lookalike Arenado.
Hey, good for Nolan. Stick to your guns, dude.
But the ball is rolling, he’s definitely getting traded now.
Astros might have 1 season left to contend for a wild card slot (more than likely they’ll miss the playoffs this season) They weren’t a dominant team this year, and will be missing Tucker and probably Bregman next season. Yes, Altuve is still viable, but he can’t carry the entire team and wear an electrical device under his shirt at the same time anymore….not at his age.
Astros farm system is barren. Nado is smart to not want to spend the next 3 seasons with the Stros….that’s Cards 2.0….only 2 years behind.
Throw enough money at him and he will go anywhere. Sounds like a good way to shake down the owner who was dumb enough to agree to this in the first place.
Its fun to speculate about why he doesn’t want to play for the Astros, but the reality is that he simply wants to be in California or the North East. Weird that among his confirmed teams that he would not block the Mets are there and the Yankees aren’t
He’s obviously waiting for the Dodgers to trade Gavin Lux, so they can move Muncy back to his best defensive position at 2B.
They wouldn’t have to trade Lux. It’s not like he’s making a lot of money. He just be moved to utility. Which I wouldn’t mind.
Maybe he was being respectful to Bregman who is still negotiating for a big time contract. Maybe he didnt want to be used as a way for the Astros to apply low ball leverage. If Bregman was gone maybe a waiver of the no trade clause based on a whats in it for me negotiation would occur. I think he did Bregman a solid here.
Maybe you’re way overthinking this. He has a list he will say yes to. Houston not on the list. It’s really that simple
Nothing is that simple when hundreds of millions of dollars are in play.
Astros already acquired Paredes. Bregmans ship has sailed. If not Arrenado, they will get a 1B.
Yes l would do the same.
Good, rather he stay a cardinal then trade him to Houston who have a terrible farm system! Nothing worth bring back!
That farm system has produced one of the best catchers in MLB and one of the best shortstops (WS MVP) in the last couple of years. It is true that they have nobody on the MLB top 100 lists, but many of those guys will never make it anyway..
Will Wagner was traded to BlueJays in the Kikuchi trade and he hit .305 with 788 ops last season. It’s true that the farm system is not top shelf, but Houston seem to find a way to improve some of these guys and make them MLB ready.
(Houston AAA affiliate also won the championship last season)
It’s hilarious to think Arenado at his age and contract will warrant a significant prospect in return.
“But he used to be great!” is about all you can say on his behalf.
Great reporting job by all the “insiders” talking about how he was gonna get moved… not a single one that I read said anything about a NO trade Clause… some people should be fired over this
I read that maybe you should consider reading tlhe articles?
The existence of a no-trade clause was mentioned in every article I have seen.
Houston should be disappointed as he may have actually helped them compete in the ALW, but Nolan would really help BOS or NYY in the ALE
2025 will not be kind to HOU
SupremeZeus. 4 days ago
If prior reporting is to believed, Arenado is only willing to waive his no trade for 6 teams and Houston is not one of the 6. Mo was a rule maker when he landed Goldy and Arenado when their teams gave them away. Looks like Mo is finding out what it’s like to be a rule taker in a trade this time around.
But but it comes with an apple watch!?
Wonder who leaked that? Astros, Cards, or Arenado’s agent? Hard to discern an angle for any of them, to be honest.
@seamaholic. It’s goes to the mlb office, that why the writers break the news. That’s why they know he blocked it.
Good for him. Why play with a bunch of cheaters?
He’s clearly location oriented and Houston isn’t it.
What a relief! I’m glad the Astros don’t have to run a “has been” out there… again (ref:J Abreu)
Even the A’s have a better public image than the Astros now.
How many pennants have they won lately ?
Who says no?
Cards send Arenado’s full contract if he waives his NT along with Brendan Donovan to the Yankees so that’s total of $78m
Yankees send Stroman, DJ, Grisham total of $53m plus 3 prospects
Warren or Hampton
Everson Pereira
Oswaldo Cabrera
Cardinals are not interested in anything even remotely close to this. The entire point of moving Arenado is salary relief (and if they eat most, it’s going to take an actual legitimate prospect) and Donovan is going to take a large overpay. Bringing in three past prime vets ain’t it.
Seems the Cards don’t want the 53M, probably just want prospects.
Cards aren’t sending Donovan for the group you suggest. He is a proven, terrific player, with unmatched versatility. They have no use for Stroman, DJ, or Grisham. Pereira can’t hit, and they have Sagesse. Cabrera can’t field and they don’t need him.
They have better pitching prospects than Warren. Must admit I don’t know much about Hampton, but still. Cards may be in a partial rebuild but the 2025 team will be competitive and the players you suggest wouldn’t make their roster. Will Gorman, Nootbar or Walker live up to their hoped for potential? Who knows, but I would choose them over the group you suggest.
is Arenado calling out the Astros as bunch of assclowns without actually calling them out as a bunch of assclowns…..yup.
No. He simply turned down the trade. Any speculation on the reason is entirely yours.
Hey, if the Cards are desperate, send him to Boston. If the Sox can grab him for pennies on the dollar, they can slide Devers over to 1B and move Casas to Seattle for some pitching. Sox IF D gets a little better and I think Nolan would go ok in Fenway. It’s not a huge commitment financially but I’ve no idea what the flotsam and jetsam the Cards would be happy to take back.
Cards aren’t desperate, but the player indicated he’s like to go to a contender and Stl I’m sure is happy to unload the contract in that case.
Puzzling that the team didn’t consult with Arenado before getting this far in discussions but if I were Stl, I’d just tell Nolan he’ll be splitting time with Nolan Gorman in 2025 as the team explores the future.
Idle threat.
If you decline to go to Houston but you will come here, winning is obviously not your priority.
Nor do you care about taxes.
Just say you want to play near home and clear up the drama.
“DENIED !!!” Could be using it as leverage for more compensation to wave no trade clause. Been alota places n Houston is the mother of all humidity.
Can’t blame him for not wanting to go to the Trashtros.
Just keep him
Prolly doesn’t wanna wear the ugliest uniform in baseball….
My guess is Arenado wants assured playing time, viewed the Houston situation as fluid due to Paredes.
I wish I could block any MLBTR post of Nolan Arenado blocking any trade. Lol
Maybe he isn’t a fan of cheaters.
Didn’t St Louis have guy kicked out of baseball for cheating?
Guy Fieri?
Let’s be realistic about these things. If you are going to earn $300 mil before your 37th birthday, I would imagine you would like to choose where you live and work. If he’s from SoCal, maybe he wants to get back into surfing or something? I can squint and see the Yankees as they pretty much always make the playoffs. SD is out as they have Machado. Boston sort of makes sense but I’m not sure they’ll even make the playoffs(getting closer, but I’m not wholly convinced). The Angels stink so that’s just a hometown thing and of course the behemoth that is the Dodgers who I think anyone who wants a yearly shot at the title would like to play for.
The Dodgers have no need for Arenado, and no need to take on a $17m AAV for three years for a 2-3 win player turning 34.
In this type of deal if it had gone through and the cards sent Houston $15-20m as it said. Does that money come off their luxury tax cap? Or would Houston still be responsible for the full AAV against the luxury tax? Or would it be just the actual cash/payroll.
Each team is responsible for what they actually pay out. That is to say, any money paid by the Cardinals is included in their CBT calculations and is not included in Astros calculations
@Perksy Very straightforward: It’s what the team itself is actually paying towards every player’s salary, where for multiyear deals it’s always the total being paid to the player by the team in question divided by the number of years of the contract. And if a team is trading a player and kicking in $15m total over three years, for each of those 3 years the team has $5m added to its LT figure.
There are odds and end having to do with the NPV of deferred monies, but in general the graf above covers most deals.
I can’t blame Arenado for exercising his rights. If he stays, I hope he rebounds. When Arenado came to Cardinals they promised to try and build a winner around Goldschmidt and Arenado. They had a pretty good team in 2022, and Goldy and Arenado did their part, but clearly the front office didn’t go for it when they had a chance. Even in 2024 they signed Sonny Gray, but only supplemented him with mediocre innings eaters and luke warm bodies for the bench. It is sad that the Goldy/Arenado era will end with nothing of note team wise to show for it.
@jaxcards Ownership were fools if they didn’t understand they’d take a huge hit in 2023 compared to the 30.7 (!!!) bWAR they got from Goldy, Arenado, Edman, and Donovan in 2022. Turned out in ’23 they got something like 9.7 bWAR. from those four. That was a jolt, but what did they expect particularly with the first two in their 30s?
Still, what were they supposed to do? They got lucky in 2022, then got unlucky in 2023. About the only thing they could have done was added an ace prior to the 2023 season and pushed payroll to $200 million, but they still would have won at most 77 games.
While i think arenado would have bounced back somewhat, i would rather they pick up walker for 1b. Sign a couple cheap of like hayes and carlson. Theyd need to take some risks for some bounce back pitching, but i think that would certsinly keep them in the thick of the alwest tile chase.
Dude only wants to play for a team with an established third baseman for some reason.
I mean sitting on the bench for $25 million seems like a good deal to me
Arenado was like “pow pow” trade rejected. “Not up in here”
If the STL Cards are getting screwed i’m good with it.
He would approve a trade to six teams: the Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Phillies, Mets, or Red Sox.
Is this complicated?
Yeesh.
Its more fun to speculate he holds a deep hatred for a team that has never slighted him
Thank You whyhayzee! Why TF would they work out a deal with the Stos when they’re not on the list? Hoping the Evil Empire make a move here. They can always claim that Jazz is an…ahem…established 3B man.
Nolan saying he does not want to go to Houston as bad as my ex-wife telling me “You will never find another woman like me”. I SHOULD HOPE NOT.
Overpriced, guy on an extreme downslide of his career with his production falling majorly, where have I seen this picture before?
Derrick Goold in the St.L. Post-Dispatch noted that Arenado’s agent said he was looking for a team “with the throttle down” seeking a championship. To me the Astros trading Tucker and not signing Bregman both suggest that they do not have the throttle down. My guess is that Arenado figures that if the throttle’s only halfway, then he already has that with the Cardinals.
Let’s face it, Arenado does not have a list of teams he’d go to….he has 1 team. Until that team steps up, this will be a recurring theme. Fyi it’s not the Angels.
It’s the A’s isn’t it?
He probably didn’t want to join an organization known for cheating by wearing buzzers.
Once he’s gone, does he go in the Hall of Fame as a cardinal?
Blank cap, if he makes it at all. Too good for too long in Colorado.
Well considering he hasn’t hit 40 homers or batted .300 since leaving coors field. I would say he goes in as a rockie.
Boras should take him for a nice dinner. Certainly helps Bregman’s case of Arenado stays in STL.
Maybe Nolan is holding out hope, Andrew Friedman dials his number.
I’m holding out hope Andrew dials MY number. Surely the Dodgers could use a lefty junkballer who can possibly break 70mph on a good day! I’m all changeups, screwgies and gyroballs. I only need to work an inning to get that ring!
Either Arenado really doesn’t want out, or he has a specific destination in mind
Shots fired @ Manfred
If he has a no-trade clause and chooses to exercise it for any particular teams, we should just respect that decision and move on.
Nobody really knows why he made that decision, but it was his choice to make.
Guess he has his reasons. Astros wouldn’t be my first choice, but they’d probably be in my top 10-12.
After Altuve, Yordan, that Astros lineup is anemic. Poor Yordan could walk 150 times or K 150 chasing all year pitchers pitching around him.
And with the team reportedly listening on Framber offers, Arenado is right in saying no way Jose!
That is a below .500 team in 25′.
Has anyone done an analysis of these large-scale deals for players coming out of Colorado and how they usually work out in the end?
Love that they tried to trade him to a team explicitly not on his list. Like what did you expect would happen?
My guess is the Astros called and made an offer. The Cardinals liked the offer but then ran it by him and he said no. It’s not like the Cardinals were initiating this.
Perhaps my good man! Perhaps!
He’s boring to watch and he seems to always be hiding a bit of animosity just beneath the surface towards fans, or front office, or the city, or all of the above. Seems a lot like Colorado, except he realizes that repeating the same thing in St Louis won’t fly twice. Effectively he doom spiraled two organizations now. I hear he’s a “gamer”, lives and breathes baseball. But what I think I might see is a guy that always relied on pure talent without much adjustment. And underwhelming as a teammate. Any takers?
MEMORY LANE
Here are two quotes from February 1, 2021. That was the day Nolan Arenado was traded to the Cardinals.
Nolan Arenado: “I plan on sticking around. That’s my goal. I plan on staying here for a long time.”
John Mozeliak: “I’m sure a lot of teams wish they were sitting where we are today.”
Yeah he said I believe identical words when he signed his extension with the Rockies, and the Rockies GM at the time (whom Arenado now loathes) said pretty much the same thing as Moz.
He obviously wants to end his career at home in OC so he will definitely end up on the Angels.
Lmao. Good on arenado. Nobody wants to play for those POS cheaters in Houston.
Just a reminder, fans pay the players. Owners are just the middlemen.