On Friday evening, the Mets officially announced the signing of left-hander Sean Manaea to a three-year deal. The Boras Corporation client receives a $75MM guarantee. The deal reportedly contains $23.25MM in deferred money, which will be paid between 2035-44. New York had multiple open roster spots, so no further move was necessary.
Manaea, 33 in February, is now poised to sign with the Mets for the second consecutive offseason. In the first week of January earlier this year, the southpaw landed with New York on a two-year deal that guaranteed him $28MM and included an opt-out following the 2024 campaign. It was the second winter in a row that saw Manaea sign a two-year deal with an opt out after he signed with the Giants on a $25MM guarantee during the 2022-23 offseason.
That first contract in San Francisco was inked on the heels of a brutal 2022 season in San Diego that saw Manaea struggle to a 4.96 ERA (76 ERA+) with a 4.53 FIP in 158 innings of work. His time with the Giants went better than that; while his 4.44 ERA (94 ERA+) was still below average but he nonetheless entered the offseason boasting much stronger peripherals (3.91 FIP, 3.83 SIERA) and a solid run of starts down the stretch that September where he posted a 2.25 ERA and 3.21 FIP.
The Mets clearly believed that portended better days in Manaea’s future, and it certainly did. The lefty emerged as a quality mid-rotation option for New York in 2024 as he posted a 3.47 ERA (114 ERA+) with a 3.83 FIP in a career-high 181 2/3 innings of work across 32 starts. With a career year in the books ahead of his third consecutive trip to free agency, it seemed as though Manaea was looking for longer-term security. The Mets opted to tag the lefty with the Qualifying Offer at the outset of the winter, but it was hardly a surprise when Manaea rejected that one-year, $21.05MM offer and entered the open market anyway. After all, the lefty came into the winter ranked by MLBTR as the #10 free agent available on our annual Top 50 MLB Free Agents list and the #5 starter behind only Corbin Burnes, Blake Snell, Max Fried, and Jack Flaherty.
Early in the offseason, the fact that Manaea was encumbered by the QO led a number of clubs that likely would’ve had interest in a mid-rotation veteran like him to turn towards alternative options. The Angels, Dodgers, and Cubs turned in the early days of the offseason to unencumbered free agents like Yusei Kikuchi, Snell, and Matthew Boyd rather than delve into the markets of qualified free agents like Manaea, Nick Pivetta, or Luis Severino.
That’s not a consideration for the Mets, however, as reuniting with Manaea only costs the hypothetical draft pick they would’ve received had he signed elsewhere. That’s allowed Manaea to land a healthy guarantee despite a fairly small list of teams connected to him this winter: his three-year, $75MM deal exceeds the three-year, $60MM guarantee MLBTR predicted for him at the outset of the offseason but that’s hardly a surprise given that virtually every starting pitcher’s contract has exceeded expectations. Additionally, it’s of course possible that the deferred money in Manaea’s deal drops the net present value closer to MLBTR’s prediction.
For New York, a reunion with Manaea serves as a likely capstone on the club’s efforts to reconstruct its starting rotation after he, Severino, and Jose Quintana all hit the open market last month. The club added Frankie Montas and Clay Holmes to their rotation mix earlier this winter, but that duo offers little stability given Montas’s struggles in 2025 and the fact that Holmes last started a game in the majors back in 2018. Manaea provides that much-needed stability while slotting towards the front of a rotation that also includes talented right-hander Kodai Senga and young southpaw David Peterson.
With depth options like Paul Blackburn, Tylor Megill, and Griffin Canning all in the wings to help cover for potential injuries, it would hardly be a surprise if Manaea’s return wrapped up the team’s rotation additions for the winter. That doesn’t mean the club is done entirely, however. Even with a hefty 2025 payroll that RosterResource estimates will land just shy of $280MM as things stand, that still leaves $56MM of room to work with before the Mets match their 2024 figure. That should leave plenty of room for the Mets to sign a corner infield bat to pair with Mark Vientos, whether that ends up being a reunion with Pete Alonso or an alternative option such as Alex Bregman and perhaps bolster other areas of the roster such as the bullpen or the bench.
ESPN’s Jeff Passan first reported the Mets and Manaea had agreed to a three-year, $75MM deal. Will Sammon of the Athletic reported that the deal included $23.25MM in deferred money to be paid between 2035-44. Image courtesy of Imagn.
DarkSide830
Thats…not absurd money in this market.
hiflew
No, but it is more damning evidence that this market is absurd in itself.
hiflew
It’s not inflation. Baseball salaries have gone up exponentially higher than the regular inflation rate over the past 25 years. Maybe YOU should read about inflation because you clearly don’t really know what it is.
hiflew
Excellent argument. Glad you only made me waste thirty seconds instead several minutes in deciding you weren’t worth arguing with. Have a nice day.
padam
Inflation. That’s comical.
dugmet
3 years is fantastic.
dugmet
Great pitchers get 6-8 years.
Lindor's Bodyguard
@dugmet. For their age 33-40 seasons?
Explain please!
dugmet
Fair point. I should have said great pitchers get $35m+.
Blue Baron
hiflew: Inflation or not, why does a label matter?
Pads Fans
What inflation is in the world doesn’t have any effect on baseball salaries. What does is MLB revenue which continues to go up.
deweybelongsinthehall
The Soto deal didn’t reset the market but this one could. Absurd was used before and yes it is. It’s only money to Cohen but if another club bet on him continuing his late last season. success and loses, it’s devastating. Pivetta is happy ..
theonlydynasty
Oh it’s not that complicated lol. Dodgers started big with Snell. Yanks went over on Fried, Severino, now Manaea. Just looks like one of those freaky years where all the big $ teams were looking at the same guys with same agents. I could obviously be wrong but I don’t think it’s much more than that
coocoo20
Nice and short just like most of the Mets starting pitchers outings will amount to
Fever Pitch Guy
Ray – My question is how does Nick already know Montas will struggle in 2025?
Blue Baron
RF: Comparing player compensation before and after arbitrater Peter Seitz ruled the reserve clause and system illegal in 1975 is not apples to apples.
Ruth and others would have been paid astronomically more if they had been able to become free agents.
Blue Baron
dewey: It’s “only money” to every MLB owner.
The_M4N
@Ray, so not a fan of 15 years?
deweybelongsinthehall
Blue, except baseball has to fill stadiums 81 times a year and whereas I used to only buy field boxes, today id rather spend that money elsewhere if I could afford it. Regional sports have problems. How much can the average fan afford to pay to watch games?
Lindor's Bodyguard
Why is this so important to you?
Fever Pitch Guy
Pads – True for MLB revenue, but not for every team. My team’s revenue actually declined in 2023 and likely declined again this year as well.
As for the Jays, their operating losses are getting bigger ….. $45M in 2023 and $34M in 2022. Of course it doesn’t help they pay players in US currency but their revenue is in CAD.
Miken31
deweybelongsinthehall:
You’re implying the Manaea deal can reset the market? Have you seen the deals starting pitchers have been getting? Severino got $66 million over three years and he absolutely had a worse year than Manaea. I’m actually surprised the Mets were able to get him back on this deal. I thought it was going to be worse.
Three years isn’t bat at all.
Fever Pitch Guy
Ray – I have to defend Pads on this one.
With MLB it’s more about supply and demand.
Years ago it cost nothing for fans to watch their team on television, now you’ve got to pay a huge amount of money to watch games on for instance NESN and even then you will miss out on big games unless you pay for Apple TV, Peacock, ESPN, etc.
As for ticket prices, GONE are the large capacity stadiums of the past.
In 1976 of the 24 MLB stadiums, 15 of them were 50K+ seats.
Today? Just one, Dodger Stadium.
And back then you didn’t have the luxury suites and VIP sections that are common today.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – It all comes down to greed, as usual.
The bigger concern is if MLB awards more and more exclusive coverage to Apple TV, Peacock, etc (and Netflix is coming)..
I haven’t seen the numbers, but I’m guessing the few viewers they gain on Apple TV are more than offset by the many viewers who can’t afford to pay for Apple TV etc.
But MLB likes the huge contracts, so they don’t give a damn.
slider32
Streaming has upped the anti!
slider32
Believe me, they owned you!
slider32
It’s all about TV and streaming today!
Mad Hatter
You’re taking the fun out of this conversation Ray..
TurnOffTheTV
@raymond:
It’s crazy how few people price things in real money.
theruns
Yeah, bad move signing a dude that just put up 181 innings of 1.08 WHIP, 3.47 ERA baseball.
Sounds like he had lots of short outings, very astute!
mlbnyyfan
Does Manaea, Holmes and Montas really striking fear for the rest of MLB?? The Mets needed Burnes or a trade for Skubal
Fever Pitch Guy
mlb – I’d rather have a starting pitcher who puts up a sub-3.50 ERA for 180+ innings than someone like Glasnow who strikes fear for only 87 innings a season.
padam
No, that you use the term inflation to describe the increase in contracts, etc. Apparently you don’t even know what inflation is.
Blue Baron
dewey: What specifically is “the average fan?”
Lots of people watch and attend games every year, so you need to be more specific.
And you choosing to spend your money elsewhere is irrelevant to how much a player gets paid.
Blue Baron
slider32: Are you ANTI upping the ANTE?
Blue Baron
mlbnyyfan: Why would the Tigers trade Skubal?
deweybelongsinthehall
Miken, neither in my view are deserving of three year deals. Pivetta is another who is now looking for this kind of money but has never shown he could pitch when it counts. Each has enough warts that I would shy away except for one year.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever, I’ll be retiring in a few years and the wife will be all over my spending. This is insanity.
LordD99
No way Stearns approved of this deal. Cohen all the way. A sentimental signing at this level.
Miken31
LordD99:
You have no proof of that. Manaea was excellent last year and he only got three years here. I’m not sure what would be exactly sentimental about the signing.
seamaholic 2
The most successful people in the world “believe government statistics,” in fact base their investments on them. The losers don’t. Sorry. You’re down a dead end path.
Blue Baron
theonlydynasty: Severino signed with the Athletics, not the Yankees.
sports_fan9921
Agree. These salaries are not because of inflation, they cause inflation.
Brad Johnson
Salaries have also gone up at a rate well *below* those of revenue and franchise value growth.
Citing the sort of inflation you and I experience is misleading when the relevant figure is industry growth.
Flyby
@Raymond
while i agree with you to a point on inflation this is a horrible example.
Clay bucholz is a right hander, coming off a bad platform year where he was put in the bullpen and was injury prone. prior which all lower his value. This probably would compare to when the mets signed him last season as a really good example. 13.5 vs 15 as they were same scenario and not far off on stats. Also some of that difference is that he is a left hander.. your example is basically comparing a 2010 saturn vs a 2024 cadillac.
Jake arrieta might be a better comparison with him getting cy young a few years before his platform year vs sean being a left hander and getting votes for cy young in his platform year with both being on the upper end of the free agent market. but that would be 3/75 to 3/75 no inflation in baseball..
it is funny that both Arrietta and Bucholz both signed with phillies a year after each other and same age of signing both right handed but one signed for 12,5 million and the other at 25M. Inflation was nuts that year gold must have sky rocketted.
theonlydynasty
@blue baron
Yeah I’m well aware of that. Still an example of overpay this off-season.
imissjoebuzas
So if Alonso signs for 5/125 when he could have had 7/158 a year ago, is that inflation, a stagnant market, or deflation of Scott Boras’s balloon estimation of Pete’s worth?
Pads Fans
Roy, inflation in the outside world has no effect on a team’s revenue. Ticket prices are not affected by the CPI, they are affected by supply and demand. A team’s media revenue is not affected by the CPI. Its determined long in advance by a combination of their local and national contracts.
What players earn is based on what the sport earns, not what you and I are experiencing in terms of inflation. Stick to things you understand. This is not one of them.
Pads Fans
Gold prices are also not influenced by the CPI.
Pads Fans
Dewey. Apparently more, since both ticket prices and attendance went up again in 2024. 2nd year in a row.
Pads Fans
If you are trying to quote Forbes, just stop. For the Blue Jays look at the shareholders report. They had $541 million in revenue, more than $200 million more than the $328 million Forbes claimed. They didn’t lose a single Loonie.
Edp007
The Jays can play with numbers. They own the broadcasting network. No idea how much or if any of what would be rights snd advertising revenue is in your figures.
Pete'sView
And for Manaea, who will regress to norm, an overpay, though I’m not surprised it came to this.
Pads Fans
If Manaea regresses to his norm that would be a 4.00 ERA for a #3 starter. Since that is better than league average performance from the #3 slot, it is a good thing for the Mets.
If I was a Mets fan, I would be ok with that.
Pads Fans
CPI is how inflation for you and I is measured. Like I said, stick to subjects you might understand. This is obviously not one of them.
Pads Fans
Ticket prices went up because DEMAND went up.
Pads Fans
They can’t play with the numbers they submit as part of their shareholder’s report.
Pads Fans
Other than snow I can’t see why. Toronto is an incredible city. Clean, relatively low crime by Us standards. Really nice people everywhere I went. Expensive real estate, but that is because people from all over the world want to be there. High demand.
Pads Fans
Say goodbye Roy. I have limited time for the mentally challenged and trolls, and you have far surpassed your allotted time.
“The U.S. government measures inflation primarily by calculating the Consumer Price Index (CPI), which tracks the average change in prices paid by consumers for a representative goods and services.”
bls.gov/cpi/questions-and-answers.htm
bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/inflation-measureme…
Metsies
Sounds like my economics teacher! Well put
Flyby
@raymond
you could have easily used the number 2 alex wood and 3 bucholz to compare which is much closer in comparison as both were injury prone and moved to the bullpen and both had similar paths. much close to a 1 to 1 than manea. You know reducing factors. Woods only made 8M so does that mean that salaries have dropped and i can expect wait on gold?
could have also used alex wood vs sean manea where alex is higher in the comparison list than bucholz both are left handers both had some bullpen experience. also the can remove covid factor since it was last year and they both played in the NL with multiple teams in their division making the playoffs. Alot less factors and closer to a 1 to 1 comparison unless you are saying salaries tripled in 1 year as wood only made 8M and 25 for manea damn i should have invested in gold last year instead of the mlb package.
Flyby
and bucholz was barely replacement level at 0.1 and around 1 WAR total over three years leading up to that year with him being a negative 1.6 war in one of those years where woods was worth 2.5 in that time span and not negative at all. The 2.5 war over the last 3 years matches Manea’s last 3 years sounds even more like woods and manea is a better comparison.
Sounds like you are doing “campaign” comparisons where you cherry pick for your numbers. You are comparing kia (bucholz) vs chevy (woods) vs cadillac (manea). Not hard to use your source baseball reference to see this.
MrLOLMet
Baseball has a rule to regulate this. Google Rule 34 inflation
Flyby
@raymond
well the tool your sharing is rusty and nonfunctional.
you are trying to equate grape juice to wine then comparing grape juice to gold in one year and then compare that same gold to top shelf wine in another year. Yes the two are made from grapes but something tells me a bottle of welchs will never price up to a bottle of a Leroy Musigny Grand Cru. took me not even 2 mins on baseball reference (same source as you) to see they were not actually close.
By using your comparison/logic i could say that gold should drop as Javier baez signed a multi year contract at 6yr/140 deal in 2021 and gleybar could only get a 1 year at 15M. both 2nd baseman and both around the same age.
I urge you to actually do some research before making comparisons to something that makes sense. a better comparison would be the qualifying offer that jumped from 17M in 2016 to 21M in 2024 which is probably more in line with inflation.
wanderslust
Why did you reference two markers for inflation that are the most volatile.
? The CPI is more accepted and stable.. Gold has declined in price during three of the last 10 years: 2014, 2017, and 2021. The CPI is much more stable
BITA
It is absurd. The market ebbs and flows and this is a crazy contract that will look worse over time.
Lindor's Bodyguard
This is one of your best posts ever, only from an entertainment perspective. I appreciate the entertainment. Thank you.
Big whiffa
The Phillies have 5 better starters than the Mets.
Miken31
Big whiffa:
And a bunch of hitters that choke in the postseason
Ma4170
They sure don’t
padam
Yet the Mets beat them. Try again.
metsfan1992
All the Mets need now is Alonso, Bergman and 2 more arms and then call it an offseason success
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpertAGAIN)
Disagree, right now the bullpen is the worst its looked in years, and thats saying something. Currently I have Genesis Cabrera as their third best reliever. Unless the offense can produce 10+ runs per game, the bullpen is going to blow most of these close games
metsin4
It must be really good if you are saying it’s the worst in years.
DannyDimes2023
They have a crapload of arms so no it’s not the worst. Diaz is Diaz. Butto and Nunez were excellent last year. They have a crapload of arms in the bullpen that can produce. Only thing needed is tanner Scott at this point.
JackStrawb
“Diaz is Diaz” is not the encomium we wish it was.
He also puts them in the awkward position of not being able to promise a closer-caliber arm the closer role.
fredweis
I think they plan on using Marte to get more bullpen help. They are stretching out Holmes but he’ll only start when they go to a 6 man rotation, I expect him in the pen. He should be a good fit with Butto as a mixed long reliever/closer.
JackStrawb
Marte won’t bring back a useful arm in trade even if the Mets eat all his salary. As a FA after two partial seasons summing to 0.0 WAR he’d be lucky to get $3m.
Holmes was told he’d start. He’s currently their #4, clearly ahead of Montas. Butto doesn’t have closer stuff.
LongTimeFan1
@fredweis,
Your narrative that he’ll only start if Mets go to 6-man rotation isn’t accurate.
Holmes signed with Mets to return to starting pitching, and Mets signed him to be a regular member of the rotation – be it 5-man or 6. If he doesn’t succeed as starter he can always return to the pen down the road.
User 3240017344
LFG knows fully well that bullpens aren’t built by December but he’s just so desperate to be negative.
If the Mets put together an amazing bullpen today he’d be here tomorrow crying about the equipment managers.
It’d be pathetic if it was genuine but he’s just trolling.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
I hate to say this but signing manaea is probably the last huge thing they do, most I can see them add now is Anthony Santander
I still feel like Alonso is going to the Yankees
Desert Yankee
What will they do with Goldschmidt?
JackStrawb
Take him out behind the barn.
“Sorry, Paul, we decided to go with the younger, more ridiculous signing…”
Jean Matrac
Where’s Alonso going to play with Goldschmidt at 1B and Stanton at DH?
deweybelongsinthehall
LF. LOL
Sorinotsori
How? They blocked that move with Goldy. DH is also spoken for with G.
JackStrawb
True, but if Alonso agreed to something unlikely, say 2/40m, there’s no reason they couldn’t deal Goldy for his salary or eat a few mil and move him.
VonPurpleHayes
Yankees are out on Alonso. They signed Goldschmidt.
Lindor's Bodyguard
If I hated to say something, I wouldn’t say it.
Captain K-Midd
They aren’t signing an outfielder until they can offload part of Marte’s contract. I don’t think they want to just outright release him. They could get a team to at least take him for a few $million
fredweis
They already traded for Jose Siri and still have Jeff McNeil to play LF.. Plus Drew Gilbert could be called up this summer.
JackStrawb
@Captain K-Midd Offloading Marte’s contract is probably irrelevant to building the 2025 Mets.
It just doesn’t matter. At 36 in 2025 he projects to lose some of his modest 2024 season, making him a below league average hitter who is now so bad in the OF he should never take the field. Whether the Mets eat $17m by dealing him or $19.5m by cutting him isn’t going to matter if they plan on using his roster spot for someone actually good.
In any case, it’s hard to believe that the 2025 Mets will feature light hitting Starling Marte at DH. He doesn’t have career platoon splits, and the Mets offense is thin, with only Nimmo, Lindor, Soto, and Vientos guaranteed to put up an above average OPS+. A lineup of:
Nimmo
Lindor
Soto
Vientos 1B
McNeil
Marte
Alvarez
Siri
??? 3B
…. even if you add a bat at 3B is still thin for a contender, particularly if you add a glove guy like Kim in FA, or ride with Mauricio for a couple of months at the start of 2025.
The obvious upgrades wrt hitting are at 3B and DH. Moving on from Marte is a given unless for some reason there’s a hard cap on payroll. The Mets with Manaea are probably up to a projectable 87 wins for 2025, perhaps 88.
Solidify the lineup and pen and you get to 90 without a major pickup—anything more and you begin to cross wires with the 3- and 5-year plans. Do the Mets really want to give Bregman something like 7/175m and find themselves saddled with his decline and that of Nimmo, Lindor, Diaz, and Senga in 2027? Or be paying 80m to three 36 or 37 year old players in 2030 and another 51m to Soto at 31?
That doesn’t look like anything Stearns would want to burden the team with, given we know there are hard limits to Mets payroll.
Blue Baron
sad tormented: If you hate to say something, why say it?
And the Yankees just signed Goldschmidt.
hiflew
I think that if Alonso doesn’t sign soon, he is going to be screwed. He’ll end up on a one year somewhere like KC or the A’s or something because all the big money teams will be set at 1B and DH.
JackStrawb
@hiflew That would make for an interesting lesson in ignorance and greed. Pete had no idea what he was worth despite playing the game all his life, and he let himself listen to Boras’s lies about what a R-R bad defensive 1Bman turning 30 was actually worth.
Still, it’s his fault. For 30k he could have signed half the guys at fangraphs to analyze what he’s actually worth, and why he’s nowhere near the tier of Freeman (HOFer) and Goldy (HOFer).
Even so, Pete appeared to believe he’d get 50% more than what they’d agreed to very recently, so he turned down an extremely generous 7/158m, an offer that only materialized because Billy Eppler was playing ass’t GM to Cohen playing at being GM.
Ignorance and greed. Quite the object lesson.
JackStrawb
@sad tormented neglected mariners fan Manaea is far from a “huge thing,” friend
Sean Manaea is a nice player to have, a perfectly ordinary #3 on a contender, durable for the 2020s, but he’s not remotely what you think he is.
Last 14 starts of 2024? 4.05 ERA, 4.23 FIP, 4.25 SIERA (Yes, the postseason counts.)
Even if you do him the favor of hewing strictly to the regular season, his last 10 starts had a 3.79 ERA, a 4.03 FIP, and a 4.06 SIERA. A hair above average but nothing more than that.
Worse, though, as it relates to projecting Manaea for 2025-2027? Just to reach that modest 3.79 ERA he needed a .191 BABIP. That’s historical good luck.
If you think that was earned, try again. Over his four Cy Young seasons Greg Maddux’s BABIP wa a .260, combined. I haven’t been able to find a stretch of 10 starts during those four years where Maddux’s BABIP was better than .221.
In short, when you need lottery-winning luck just to put up an ERA of 3.79 in a 10 start stretch during the second half, you didn’t have a good second half.
Still, if you’re not going to pick up Corbin Burnes, someone like Manaea is a necessity for a team whose front four was as iffy as Senga, Peterson, Holmes, and Montas. He rates to give you around 155-160 innings and an ERA a tick above the league average. In the era where Taijuan Walker could get 4/72m from a sanely run Phillies team, it’s hard to complain about this signing.
So—are the Mets still aiming for Cease, or is even Nick Pivetta and a good 6-man rotation too much to ask for?
slider32
Burns and Roki should be the main targets!
fredweis
Burnes is a huge overpay. I wouldn’t give a 30 yr old pitcher an 8 yr contract. Let a star desperate team like the Giants pay him.
fredweis
Still in the game for Sasaki and a pillow contract for Walker Buehler.
Blue Baron
fredweis: The Red Sox are signing Buehler.
TAKERDBACKS
Money Money Money Money Money! Everyone gots a price for the…
King Floch
…Birdman, Koko B. Ware!
metsoptimist
Very happy about this. 😀
BITA
Holy cow that’s a lot of money for a good not great pitcher. Cohen spends but this dude has never seen a coupon before in his life.
tsweeney179
My dude, once you learn that whatever the Mets do is lolmets to most fans and media, their inane ramblings begin to make a lot more sense.
Salzilla
True, but this feels like an overpay, no? Like that’s quite a reward for what he did for them. Doubtful another team would have paid him that much.
Chris G.
Less years and less money than I thought he would get after the other pitcher contracts that have been given out. Absolutely love this deal
theruns
There’s no risk in anything for Cohen, he is worth over 21 billion. Even long term deals are just incidental to him. The whole thing in Monopoly money to him.
VonPurpleHayes
We say that often. I say it, but then you actually see him making deals to keep the Mets profitable longterm. So I think he does care about risk. He doesn’t want the Mets in the red, but is willing to pull the trigger on star players.
JackStrawb
@Chris G. Hard to love 3/75m when you’re getting a durable #3, but no more than that. Manaea was incredibly lucky in the 2nd half and even then his last 14 starts including the postseason gave the Mets an ERA of 4.05.
I’d rather have Manaea at 3/75, though, than the Taijuan and Taillon deals for similar money but one add’l year. Those looked lousy even at the time, whereas Manaea’s a better bet to give you 150-160 innings a year of league average ball over the life of the deal.
Pads Fans
Manaea is 3/66 with the deferrals.
His last 14 starts was 3.48 ERA not including the postseason.
His last 18 starts including the postseason was a 3.71 ERA
Was trying to understand why the artificial cutoff at 14 games, until I looked at his game logs.
A more honest look at his production including the playoffs is:
3.59 ERA in 200 2/3 IP. Which ranks 7th among all starting pitchers that pitched in the postseason as well.
JackStrawb
@Pads Fans That you have to resort to ERA tells us everything. That’s even worse that pointing to a hitter’s batting average—and I did acknowledge his durability.
“Artificial cutoff”? You mean the cut off that puts paid to any fantasy that Manaea’s 2nd half involved brilliance?
4.05 ERA, a 4.28 SIERA for his last 14 starts, and even then it took a .191 BABIP, historically lucky, for his last 10 regular season starts to get his ERA anywhere near 4 for that stretch.
Pads Fans
You said; “even then his last 14 starts including the postseason gave the Mets an ERA of 4.05.”
Guess who brought up ERA? That would be you. So beotch please.
Yes, artificial. Better word would be arbitrary. Not 1st half. Not 2nd half. Not season. Last 14 starts including the playoffs conveniently leaving off two shutout appearances.
In the 2nd half he had a higher chase rate, a 3% higher GB rate, and an 4.8% higher soft contact rate than in the 1st half.
His SIERA was 2.95 in the 2nd half, which is also his last 14 starts of the regular season.
338 PA/85 GB/136 FB+LD/88 SO/23 BB = 2.95516 SIERA
sites.google.com/view/sieracalculator/home/basebal…
His 2nd half BABIP was .235 so your “stat”: is wrong. At this point you are just making stuff up and using more arbitrary cutoffs.
Smith 3
So it is Burnes or bust for the Orioles in free agency. If they make a trade, I hope it doesn’t include Kjerstad.
Bucco79
Keller for Kjerstad? Bucs need to lower payroll so they don’t go bankrupt.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
The orioles haven’t traded a top prospect yet and it makes too much sense to keep them
Maybe like a Dylan cease rental deal headlining Enrique bradfield as the return?
cwsOverhaul
@Smith: It’s pretty clear Burnes doesn’t want to be in SF or TOR even though they likely stepped up with guarantee in 240-250 vicinity. He/Boras were hoping Boston or Mets that will make playoffs most years at least as WC would swoop in to at least match.
If Balt is willing to match, he is probably theirs. Otherwise he pretends the high bidder was where he is excited to be and the stall was a “process”.
fredweis
O’s more likely to use all their positional youth to trade for Luis Castillo. Blue Jays already have Gausman, Berrios. Giants are the likely “winner” for Burnes.
cwsOverhaul
Buehler to RSox ends the value of Boras stall.
Burnes signs very soon in SF unless they call Balt one last time with a guaranteed # that’s up to them to quickly say yes or no.
Lalo says show me
I love the contract length. The cost is the price of doing business. I do believe manaea turned a corner. Much needed Mets arm piece.
bwmiller79
Montas and Manaea together again.
fredweis
Let’s hope Hefner can sprinkle some of his pixie dust on Montas. I’m not a fan. I think Canning is the better signing.
JackStrawb
@Lalo says show me If you believe that, you haven’t done even the basics.
–Including the postseason, what was Manaea’s ERA, FIP, and SIERA over his last 14 starts?
–What was Manaea’s BABIP his last 10 starts, the Mets’ stretch drive?
Sean was an average pitcher who got historically lucky over his last 10-14 starts and even so, even with all that luck during those stretches, he turned in barely better than average results in the last 1/3 of the season—the stretch that gets a standing ovation from Mets fans when in truth that’s like applauding a lottery winner for his ‘brilliance.’
Manaea’s 2024 is one more example of the triumph of a good story over anything resembling facts.
Pads Fans
His 1st 18 starts was 3.46 ERA
His last 14 starts was 3.48 ERA not including the postseason.
His last 18 starts including the postseason was a 3.71 ERA
Was trying to understand why you used an artificial cutoff at 14 games instead of 1st half/2nd half, until I looked at his game logs.
A more honest look at his production including the playoffs is:
3.59 ERA in 200 2/3 IP. Which ranks 7th among all starting pitchers that pitched in the postseason as well.
JackStrawb
You’re still prattling exclusivlely about ERA, son, and you’re doing it because luck is all you’ve got for an ‘argument.’
Pads Fans
You are still prattling about arbitrary cutoffs in his season. My daughter is likely older than you are.
If you are so worried about other stats, then maybe YOU should have posted them. You didn’t.
You edited out the stats you had posted. Why? Because you had mentioned ERA and just ERA. That is why I ANSWERED with ERA.
Editing after people answer you is a really chickenshite way to operate.
JackStrawb
@Pads Fans Now you’re just lying because the argument kicked your arse.
Muted. Blocked. Shoo.
Pads Fans
You are even lying about that. I obviously wasn’t muted. But you are.
rct
@Pads: don’t sweat it too much. Jackstrawb has an inflated ego and blocks people who disagree with him too many times. He blocked me a while back for doing the same. You’re a great poster here and you always back up what you’re saying with numbers. Happy holidays!
5TUNT1N
Damn steal for the Mets . Was hoping the giants could lure him back with chappie and bomel. Regardless I’m so happy for him to have more security, honestly one of the most wholesome guys I’ve seen in his career. Love you from NorCal Sean wishing you the best in your career! Congrats to Mets fans for securing an awesome pitcher and dude!
5TUNT1N
I’m hoping the changes they made with his arm slot are more a pure thing, I’m sure adjustments will be made. Love the guy followed him his whole career as a Bay Area sports fan. Real winner in character and work ethic from everything I’ve ever heard or read about him. Has to be a helluva clubhouse guy also since he’s played a few teams and only positivity has been reflected. Even with him doing every possible pitching job relief opener starter bulk.
fredweis
Stearns is great at finding value players. Hefner great at developing them. Look at what they did with Manaea last year but also with Severino, Quintana and Reed Garrett.
Hefner put lipstick on a pig with Tajuan Walker and coaxed two great seasons out of a near 40 yrs old Adam Ottavino.
I think they can get good seasons from Montas and Canning, if they can keep them in the strike zone. 8.6 K/9 for Canning and 9.2 K/9 for Montas but both have career 1.3 WHIP, 3.2 BB9.
Montas’s a big frame like Walker but throws way harder. Canning has very compact pitching style, may need to stretch out his windup.
He’ll likely be in long relief, as a lefty compliment to Reed Garrett so most important he can pitch with runners on the bases.
Clay Holmes signing odd as I still expect Mets to sign Sasaki, and if miss on him, big pillow contract to Buehler (eg 2/50M player option on 2nd year).
Unless Mets go with a 6 man rotation…
el_chapo_
Are the O’s , braves, mariners just asleep or are they just a little tipsy from too much eggnog?
Bill
Or the QO caused his value to other teams to be lower. It’s not like he took less than the MLBTR estimate.
stymeedone
I wouldn’t be surprised if he took the highest offer. That’s usually how things work
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpertAGAIN)
Great move. However, there is still a lot more work that needs to be done. Sign one of Burnes/Buehler or trade for Castillo, and then put the remaining assets into the bullpen. I don’t mind them resigning Alonso but he wouldn’t be my priority
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Santander is my guess where nimmo goes back to center and Soto plays left
Tyrone Taylor should not be an everyday player id have to think cohen does something about it
LongTimeFan1
Nimmo isn’t going back to center. Age 32 season with plantar fascitis. Other than spot start here and there, not going to happen.
fredweis
Nimmo is not playing center anymore, they want to preserve his legs.
dugmet
Pete will be back. I think the Mets will give him 5 years/$145m or 4 years/$120m.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Dugmet
I agree that Pete seems destined to return to Mets but at 3 years/$90 million, or four years $100 million, maybe with some opt-outs
Basketball geek
Pete Alonso, Yes, 4 years /100… possibly team option for 5th year with a $5 million buy out if not exercised. Mets bidding against themselves…. Market for 1st baseman are short term deals… reasonable contracts…Mariners who need 1st baseman have no cash…
fredweis
He turned down 5/145 before 2024 season started. Now he’ll be lucky to get $100M. More likely 4/100M but 4th season a team option.
MRSHOWTIME
He will get more then that or sign a high AAV deal w an opt out for next year
Basketball geek
Pete Alonso, no other options left, back to Mets offer… deal as you stated would be more than sufficient. Matt Olson got AAV of $21 per year… he got 8/162 but much younger, he lived in Atlanta and jumped on Braves offer a few years ago… Happy Holidays!….
VonPurpleHayes
They’re done with their rotation IMO. They don’t have room on their roster for more. They’ll add a big bat and some bullpen arms. My prediction is Alonso and Hoffman. This would make them NLE favorites IMO.
metsin4
They got room for Roki.
VonPurpleHayes
Yes. Barring Roki of course, but I think he goes to LA or SD.
metsin4
I don’t at this point. I think him going to a California team was just assumptions by writers without knowing nothing about the player. He has only met with 3 teams so far and they aren’t in California. I believe he’s looking for his own market away from Ohtani. I’m not saying the Mets are the favorites but I think there is good odds he lands outside California.
VonPurpleHayes
He’s been spotted in LA multiple times. He’s definitely going to be meeting with the Dodgers and San Diego.
This doesn’t change what you’re saying at all, but the 3 reported meetings so far have very little to do with him not meeting LA and SD. Those meetings are essentially planned and upcoming by all reports.
metsin4
His agent is located out of LA. Of course he’s going to be spotted there. He should be heading back to Japan for the holidays soon. He will be visiting each city left when he gets back. I would be looking at teams with a lack of a meeting at this point as a sign as the Phillies have.
VonPurpleHayes
LA and SD have both been granted meetings from my understanding. It just hasn’t been reported if they met yet. The Phillies have not been granted a meeting. I think that’s the key difference.
fredweis
And or Buehler.
Jean Matrac
There are rumors that Sasaki has already met with the Giants. Posey was spotted at LAX with Taira Uematsu, who is the first Japanese-born coach in the MLs.
VonPurpleHayes
He’s a Red Sock now.
VonPurpleHayes
I think it should be assumed he met with all the California teams since he was right there. He trekked to Chicago and NY to meet with the teams there.
Pads Fans
Sasaki’s agent is in LA and they have been meeting teams near his agent’s office in this 1st round. What will be more of an indication is once he gets into the 2nd round and visits the 4-5 teams Wolfe said Sasaki would visit.
Jean Matrac
Pads Fans, Yeah, I agree. My post was in response to @metsin4 saying Sasaki had met with only 3 teams, none being in California. And that a lack of meetings, implied disinterest. Even going as far as saying the odds are he’ll sign with a non-California team. It’s silly to speculate on reported meetings when there have been non-reported meetings as well.
As you say, the second round of meetings will be more illuminating. And as his agent has suggested, Sasaki may desire a less intense media market. If true, and I admit it’s speculation on the agents part, but the Met’s would not meet that criteria. Which would bode well for SD.
Hantoneenee
@VonPurpleHayes I think they have room for 1 more SP. Even with a 6 man rotation the Mets will be lucky to get 140 innings out of Senga or Holmes. They may look to stack the pen with arms who can give them multiple innings. Senga and Holmes to start could be followed/piggy backed by a depth starter. Watching Mendoza last year, it was clear he liked to go multiple innings with his pen. Bullpen does need more but, I think they lean on those depth starters as long men. At least for the beginning of the season.
JackStrawb
@LFGMets That depends. You’ve got to balance future seasons against the cost in length of contract of signing players who really move the needle.
The Mets could sign Bregman, Burnes, and a 125 OPS+ DH this offseason, making them favorites for the division, but that hammers them especially in 2027 and after when their core will be 32-33 and still under contract for years.
If they make one more significant addition, I’d go for Cease or Castillo. That hurts the farm but doesn’t cripple it, assuming they can hang onto Sproat. Their one big push to improve, if they make one, should give them a rotation or pen as good as any in the game, upping their chances of lasting into the WS.
For big FAs, though, I’d bet they’re done.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpertAGAIN)
@JackStrawb realistically, their farm system is blocked at the majority of positions at the major league level. I would trade off most of the prospects for win now players
padam
He’s always had the talent, just never could nail it down consistently. Last years adjustment may have just made this contract look reasonable if he can continue the progress he has shown.
JackStrawb
He didn’t make any progress in 2024. He was a slightly above average pitcher who was historically lucky.
dugmet
Big sigh of relief. We like Sean.
phenomenalajs
Nah, he took the bag that he probably wouldn’t have gotten anywhere else.
kgcubs
Aloha folks, nice chunk of change for Sean. He had a good season and it paid off for him. Smart move by the Mets, even though more than I thought he’d get per year, it’s a shorter contract. Mahalo
User 3240017344
Are you Hawaiian or are you implying Manaea is?
kgcubs
Aloha Piazza, as one that watched Manaea in the SF Bay area, I’m happy he had a good year in NY and is being rewarded for it. I’m originally from the islands and have family with Hawaiian heritage. Our immediate family still has to do the genealogy test/research to know for sure. Some of my cousins received scholarships from Kamehameha school/foundation for college. In regard to Manaea, his father is from Samoa and he moved to the islands (Hawaii) before settling in Indiana, where Sean was born/raised. Take care now. Mahalo and Mele Kalikimaka!
Baseball_dude
It wasn’t all that long ago when only the best of the best players were getting $20 and $25 million a year, now your average and even below average players get that.
Pads Fans
Ryan Howard and Josh Hamilton are tied for 55th on the list of top AAV.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/le…
Giancarlo Stanton is also at $25 million. Those may be the last best of the best that signed a 5+ year deal at the top of that range.
BITA
Fried is a much better pitcher
BITA
Fried has 9 more career WAR in 300 less innings pitched. 8 years is insane but he’s still a far better pitcher.
BITA
Last year Manaea was good not great. FIP is good to use to predict future performance.
BITA
It wasn’t miniscule it’s a half a run difference per inning. Manaea is a good number 3 great number 4. Fried is good number 2 great number 3. Again 8 years is crazy but Fried is clearly better.
Jean Matrac
WAR is an excellent stat, but it isn’t perfect. It can’t be looked at as the sole indicator. No stat can. But looking at WAR, Manaea’s best was 3.2 in 2021. Fried has 3 seasons with a higher WAR, topping out at a 6.0 in 2022.
Fried had a 128 ERA+ last season putting him roughly at 28% above league average. Manaea was about 14% better than league average with his 114. I like Manaea a lot, and maybe the Met’s got a better bargain, but Fried is clearly the better pitcher.
Jean Matrac
You’ve said Fried is good but Manaea is just as capable, and that going into next season they’re a push. But Manaea isn’t as capable, and it’s not a push. Fried is easily the better pitcher, and barring injury will have a better season. You might argue that Manaea’s is the better deal, and I wouldn’t argue that. But thinking Manaea’s production will be on par with Fried seems like wishful thinking.
Jean Matrac
He reportedly broke out his new arm slot July 30th. Looking at his splits, his 3 best months by ERA were Mar/Apr – 3.o7, May – 3.27, and July – 2.70. His ERA in Aug, and Sept/Oct were 3.52, and 3.32 respectively. Good numbers, but they don’t stand out as being that much better than the rest of the year minus June.
He did have more SOs, and his WHIP was better in the last third of the season, but not that significantly. His best SO/9 was in Sept/Oct, but he had better months in Mar/Apr, and June than Aug. July was also better but the stats are muddled by the GS on 7/30.
You’re depending on there being no adjustments by the hitters. The new arm slot was a different look for him. But once the hitters see him a few times, not to mention video, he might not be the dominating pitcher you think he’ll be.
Jean Matrac
Sale is a better pitcher as well.
The new arm slot didn’t particularly help Manaea in his 2 GS in the NLCS against the Dodgers. I know small sample, but so are the stats post-arm slot change.
I think he’ll be good for the Met’s. It’s a good signing. But no way will he be on par with Fried next season.
iceman6228
Manaea has changed his mechanic during last year. He is not the same pitcher now.
The_M4N
@Jean, you must be in session cause you be schooling!
The_M4N
@Ray, does having a 50/50 chance of being healthy somehow only apply to Fried?
metsin4
Their career projections are swinging in opposite directions. Both contracts are for future performances and not past. Fried is injury prone. I would never sign a pitcher to a long term contract in their 30’s. Yankee fans were all over the Rodon signing and look how that turned out.
Ma4170
All his numbers improved second half
Whip went from 1.21 to 0.94, K-BB% from 14 to 19.2, soft contact up, hard contact down… it made a big difference. Now, will everyone adjust to his adjustment? We’ll see
Ma4170
All his numbers improved second half
Whip went from 1.21 to 0.94, K-BB% from 14 to 19.2, soft contact up, hard contact down. And his postseason was very good until the second dodgers start, where he said prior that he was fatigued (which worries me if they get that far again).
Now, we’ll see if the batters adjust to his adjustment.
fredweis
Post AS break Manaea was most consistent Mets starter since deGrom in 2021.
King Floch
Pitchers making BANK this offseason!
whyhayzee
“Montas’s struggles in 2025“
Who is Monta and how is he struggling in the future?
King Floch
MLBTR got their hands on a sports almanac from the future like that classic movie about time travel.
It was called “Hot Tub Time Machine,” I believe.
hauntedhammer
Back to the future part 2
King Floch
It was a joke, but thank you.
dankyank
I love the 3 year length of the deal. Stearns’ decision to offer Manaea a QO raised the acquisition cost for other teams , which likely limited his market and increased the Mets leverage to offer a shorter term.
Yes, pitcher AAVs are insane this offseason.
I’m still glad the team chose to spend less than $3 million extra per year to bring back Manaea over Severino.
JackStrawb
He’s a 33 yo whose underlying numbers don’t bear much scrutiny. He was never likely to get 4 years unless the Angels or A’s got desperate.
rhandome
gat damn
Basketball geek
Mets have depth with starters, with Canning, Magill, Blackburn, Butto all available for 5th starter, or even 6th starters if Mets want to go there… Mets need to work on Bullpen, DH…
JackStrawb
Those are their 6th starters, geek.
Senga
Manaea
Peterson
Holmes
Montas
…. are the front 5. The drawback is, only Manaea is a 50-50 bet to give them 150 innings or 25+ starts. They still need about 40 starts from pitchers who just aren’t all that good, they only have 4 position players who are good bets to crack a 100 OPS+, and do the 2025 Mets have anyone you actually WANT to pitch the 8th and 9th inning?
Good team, lots of holes. Now it’s time for Stearns to work his one-year magic deals.
Basketball geek
Hey Uncle Stevie, please give Met fans a X-mas present…please resign the polar bear to a reasonable contract… ( 4/100)…. Mets are the last team standing for Alonso… Merry X-Mas!….
Manks/Yets
Good move. Hope they try a 6-man rotation. Tinker with Blackburn, take him to his next level.
Pads Fans
Manaea in 2024
#20 in ERA
#30 in FIP
#11 in WHIP
No matter how you slice it, he was among the best. Remember the top 30 could be a #1 somewhere. They are all TOR starters.
Mets have Senga, Manaea, Montas, Peterson, Holmes, Canning, Magill, Butto, and Blackburn in that rotation right now and they may not be done.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Why do pitchers have to slot in anywhere?
Senga was pitching like an ace in 2023.
metsin4
Don’t forget tge # 40 prospect Sproat will probably debut this year.
JackStrawb
@Pads Fans Sorry, friend, but if you believe that, you haven’t done the homework:
–Including the postseason, what was Manaea’s ERA, FIP, and SIERA over his last 14 starts?
–What was Manaea’s BABIP his last 10 starts, the Mets’ regular season stretch drive?
Sean was an average pitcher with very useful durability who got historically lucky over his last 10-14 starts and even so, even with all that luck during those stretches, he turned in barely better than average results in the last 1/3 of the season—the stretch that gets a standing ovation from Mets fans when in truth that’s like applauding a lottery winner for his ‘brilliance’ in guessing numbers.
Manaea’s a decent MOR, in short, but nothing more than that. Last 14 starts: 4.05 ERA. Last 10 regular season starts, 3.79 ERA, 4.03 FIP, 4.06 xFIP, 4.08 SIERA and as ordinary as that was, it required a .191 BABIP which was historically low even for a 10 start run. Greg Maddux in his four Cy Young seasons had a BABIP of .260, and I didn’t find a run of 10 starts where Maddux had a BABIP below .221.
Was Manaea far better than peak Doggie? Did he _earn_ that remarkable BABIP? Of course not. He was astoundingly lucky the last 1/3 to 1/2 of the year and _*even then*_ he couldn’t do more than a 3.79 ERA in his last 10 regular season starts in what everyone is lauding as some kind of “breakthrough,” which it obviously wasn’t.
TL:DR Manaea’s 2024 is one more example of the triumph of a good story over anything resembling facts.
JayRyder
Great Job Farhan letting this guy walk.
Acoss1331
So Burnes, Flaherty and Walker Buehler are the top arms remaining? Besides trades, lots of players are coming off the board. Oh, Pivetta is another one available. No offense to Kyle Gibson or Lance Lynn…
DavRz
Gonna be funny seeing Soto and the Mets in 3rd place.
Lemonade24
Maybe Sasaki will sign with them now.
Yankeesforever
Sheesh, if you are a Met fan who can get close enough to Cohen to have a few drinks with him, you may very well walk out of the bar with a one-year, five-million-dollar contract.
ReyDay
Maybe but it’s not a bad deal compared to the comps this year.
metsin4
And yet the Yankees having been giving out more ridiculous money this year and have a higher payroll.
Yankeesforever
At least we agree that it is ridiculous money.
metsin4
It’s all ridiculous money for those of us not making it.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
The Mets just broke the length and AAV record on a contract and you are blaming the Yankees for this?
Thou doth protest too much…
metsin4
They outbid the Yankees by a whole 5 million dollars. The Yankees have been the cause for escalating contracts since the 1980s.
goob
The Dodgers new ownership took over in that department in the early 2010’s and have just poured it on ever since.
Yankeesforever
incorrect and I will tell you why. The Yankees paid for the best guys, who were in line for the pay they got.
The smaller market teams overpaying for B-level players trying to compete raised the bar from below. Every time a star player became a FA afterward his agent would undoubtedly point to that B-level contract and say, if so and so is getting this much, my star deserves so much more.
Lee Harvey Oddball
The Yankees paid for their fair share of slugs, don’t try to make out like it was real men of genius. Jacoby Ellsbury ring a bell?
Sorinotsori
Good deal for the Mets I suspect, he really did look legit after the arm angle tweak to resemble Chris sale. 3 years is perfect and the money doesn’t matter to them.
fathead0507
Fried has the lowest era in MLB the last 5yrs.. this guy was playing on 1yr deals .. you sound like an idiot
Simm
It’s more simple that just the numbers. The trust factor. I trust fried to show up and be good just have to hope for good health. Manaea could be good or he could suck. He may fall back to his lazy ways. Fried I don’t worry about that.
VonPurpleHayes
There’s the ace they need. Rotation is now solid.
Lindor's Bodyguard
It will look even better when Stearns decides to deal some prospects for Alcantara before the end of July.
JackStrawb
“Ace”?
I like you Von, but… Sigh.
Manaea’s 2024 is the triumph of story over truth.
Bizzle
Basing this on the value of a single commodity that is no longer a currency reserve standard is flawed. The price of gold fluctuates independently of other inflation factors, much less player salaries.
The short story is that there are many forms of inflation. Salary inflation is certainly a thing and this is an extreme example of that.
JackStrawb
Pretty sure 4/72m for Taijuan Walker was peak salary inflation.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Seeing mostly comments about the bloated salary. I keep trying to explain that baseball salaries were actually quite stagnant for a good long while and these teams didn’t have the broadcast contracts/local / regional rights deals they do now, but those deals changed the money in the game.
These are not bloated, artificially inflated salaries- this is the game catching up with the reality of it’s economics and paying the players fairly for what they generate for the league and for owners.
I sort of liken it to taking on something that’s stuck or plugged and you’re getting tiny bits out, but then you get to the part that was actually plugging up the system, you loosen that and the flood gates open and what was a trickle becomes a gushing flood- but all of it was there the whole time, being artificially held back.
Baseball players are simply getting paid fairly for the first time in a long time.
I’m just impressed it’s Sean Manea as it feels like he has been around forever.
LordD99
I expect some regression, but he’s serviceable. I don’t expect the Montas and Holmes experiments will pay the dividends they’re hoping, but they added enough back-end arms to cover for inevitable injuries.
metsin4
You realize Holmes would then slot into their bullpen and strengthen that.
LordD99
The guy who blew 13 saves?
Pads Fans
The guy with the 3.14 ERA.
JackStrawb
@LordD99 Sounds like you’ve found the first study in baseball’s history proving clutch is a thing. By all means, link!
JackStrawb
@Lord D99 Nice to see a smidge of sanity over the Manaea signing. He’s a solid #3 even on a wildcard contender, but nothing more than that.
He also shoved roughly 160 innings and 27 starts from guys like Megill and Blackburn back into the #6 slot, where they belong.
Negan
NY is a Mets town! JHAN SOLO said so
Miken31
I don’t want to hear how this is the Mets capping off the starting rotation. They still need another reliable starting pitching arm. I’m not saying I know that they will go after it, but if they’re serious about winning, they need to add another quality starting arm and guys like Canning need to be swing guys, depth, relief arms. You can’t count on that guy to be part of a six man rotation.
metsin4
Canning is an injury insurance policy. He isn’t in their rotation right now.
Miken31
Metsin4:
That’s true if the Mets go with a five man rotation, but they’ve been talking about possibly going with a six man rotation. If that’s the case, Canning would be in consideration for a regular rotation spot. I don’t want to see that.
JackStrawb
@Miken31 Hey Mike. If they add, I’d really like to see them go for a TOR even if it means hurting the farm. Cease would be optimal. Castillo less so but he’d also cost a lot less in trade.
The Mets will be getting respectable production from their #6 slot, meaning they’re not upgrading from a 5.25 or even a 4.90 ERA (more likely the slot will grade out to 4.25 to 4.50. Given the likely high cost of improving on that and the minimal improvement you’d get from signing a 4.00 ERA giving your 150 innings for around 3/45m-60m, their best move has to be an arm that not just comes close to locking in a postseason slot, but gives their shot at the WS a useful tick upwards.
I’ve got them at 87 wins for 2025 based on the current roster, and I think that’s mildly conservative. What are you projecting them for after the Manaea signing?
Miken31
JackStrawb:
Early Merry Christmas! Yes, TOR 10000% agree. And I agree Cease is the guy. He would completely elevate this rotation. The problem with the Padres though is I think they want guys who are going to contribute to the major league team this year, kind of like with the Soto deal last year with getting Michael King. Sproat wouldn’t be in play because the Mets are going to need some young pitching to develop, but very open on trading other prospects. Acuna is obviously major league ready and helped his stock at the end of the year, but I’d like to keep him for second base if possible. I’m hesitant to project wins until I see a little bit more what they do with the bullpen. I know Stearns MO with the bullpen is not to add expensive relievers but they still have to be adding to the pen, right? Yes, I think at the moment they’re probably at about the win total you’re projecting. I think you’re pretty on point for where they are at the moment.
JackStrawb
@Miken31 Merry Christmas to you, as well! Good point on prospects. With Soto and Nimmo on hand only CF is open to prospects after 2025, and you don’t need to keep prospects as backup OFers for 2026-27 if it means adding a difference-maker by trading them. Stearns has shown a talent for adding glove-first CFers in small trades or FA signings, and it’s worked well so far. I’d say the OF is set for years if you want to deal OF prospects, particularly prospects whose primary position is a corner OF spot.
3B (assuming Vientos goes to 1B), and DH are openings you could improve a lot in trade. Maybe 2B, as well, but between McNeil / Mauricio / Acuna / even Baty, there’s a pretty high floor under 2B. The improvement (short of a star) over that floor might cost more than it’s worth—though I would have loved to have seen the Mets deal for Giminez., who put up 90% of Lindor’s WAR over the last 3 years for 10% of his salary, and he’s only signed through 2030, his age 25-31 seasons, so you’re not eating a steep decline phase.
Agree on Sproat. Keep him!! Prospects with TOR upside are gold. He and Tong should be off limits short of a coup.
I’ll be very interested to see what they do with Acuna. A .630 OPS in 754 AA and AA PA in the Mets system is shockingly low for a heralded prospect. Is he the backup IFer at the start of 2025 with a chance of moving up to start at 2B, or do they see Mauricio as higher up on the depth chart?
Squirrel’s last nine weeks in 2024 he put up an .860 OPS, so he’s probably #1 at 2B, but they won’t be afraid to move him if they think a young guy is ready.
Flanster
They absolutely needed to do this
JackStrawb
@Flanster They definitely needed another durable, fairly good starter, but if this is their last move wrt the rotation and their last major move for the 2025 offseason, I think they’ll come up short. Either that or 2 and done in the NLWC.
Half a lineup, and half of that half is a declining Nimmo and 3/4 of a fine season from Vientos. That’s a thin reed. A modest bullpen. Iffy returns from Senga, Holmes, Montas… Probably 20-24 GS from Peterson.
There are a lot of missing pieces.
Flanster
Offseason is not over yet!!! I doubt that Stearns is done adding to the roster
JackStrawb
We can hope! Still, with payroll already at $285 acc to Roster Resource for an old team, it will take something like $315m just to fill out the roster without adding an AS-caliber player at DH, 3B, 2B, or the bullpen.
The McNasty1
Another excellent move by Stearns
10centBeerNight
Ah yes. For 2 weeks we have endured “this rotation sucks” and “WTF dumpster dive Stearns.” As if they were done adding. Team just gave you a great run in a transition year, even steamrolling a strong PHI team – ruining their own magical regular season. Let Stearns do his thing. Naive to think Cohen/Stearns would sign one of the best players to a gargantuan contract only to leave team incomplete.
VonPurpleHayes
I’d take Fried all things be equal. But I like this Manae deal for the Mets anyway,
clubberlang
Honest question, could he be tagged with the Qualifying offer again in 3 years since he resigned with his original team?
goob
A player can only be QO’d once, period.
mad1
Overpay for number 3 starter at best
Boodge106
He received Cy Young votes last year and was top 10-15 overall based on his performance but ok…if it makes you feel better.
ReyDay
Name me 1 FA pitcher this year that didn’t get overpaid ?
Pads Fans
None of them were overpaid. By definition what they were paid was market value.
ReyDay
That really doesn’t make sense, so then every contract ever given out is market value with no one ever getting over paid or under paid ? Why wouldn’t they just go off a singular model then and pay the players based off WAR or some other arbitrary metric.
Pads Fans
You really don’t understand how this stuff works, do you?
The market is set by how much a team is willing to pay a player. Period. What a player signs for is what fair market value IS. Its literally the definition.
A player may DELIVER performance that provides greater or less in value to the team than the value of the money he is paid, but that is not determined at the start of the contract, its determined after the end of the contract.
Market value is literally what they sign for.
ReyDay
No I just don’t get your point saying every contract is fair market value. Just cause one team is willing to go above market to sign a player doesn’t mean that’s the true worth of the product/player.
Pads Fans
The value a player provides, his worth to the team that signs him, cannot be judged until the contract is over. This is really not that difficult.
If you want to try to calculate what their past performance would indicate they should be paid going forward, here is an easy formula. Multiply their bWAR for last season by $9.25 million. $9.25 million was the value of 1 WAR of players signed to FA contracts in the 2023-2024 offseason. .
Manaea had a 3.0 WAR in 2024 so based on his past performance he is “worth” $27.75 million per season going forward.
Adjusting for the deferrals included in his contract, he will earn an AAV of a touch less than $22 million.
Do you feel better now?
ReyDay
You can still project a contract is an overpay or underpay at the time of the signing. Comparing them to past contracts of similar caliber pitchers and positions.
I agree you can’t make the final judgement till the end but a lot of the value is based off speculation anyway. WAR is not a universally agreed upon standard and neither is the dollar value attached to it, 1.0 fWAR is closer to 8.5MM valuation. So we can agree to disagree.
Pads Fans
Braaaaaack, wrong answer, but thanks for continuing to try to support your argument. Its not working. Give it up.
The value of 1 bWAR for the FA signed during the 2023-2024 offseason was $9.25 million.
The value of 1.0 fWAR for FA signed during the 2023-2024 offseason is actually slightly higher at $9.32 million but I am not a fan of utilizing expected stats instead of actual stats in the calculation of WAR, so I do not use fWAR in any discussion of WAR.
Lalo says show me
Using a 6 man rotation, the Mets likely have a group they’re comfortable with now.
Senga manaea peterson montas and Holmes have their spots and one of Megill/canning/butto will get the other, although butto is definitely better suited for the pen.
Butto was very good in relief. Between him, Diaz, and Garrett it’s a start at least. They definitely need a lefty in the pen, if not 2, and another high leverage guy. I would like Hoffman.
They’ll likely get Pete on a reasonable contract now and then add at the deadline if their season is going well
JackStrawb
If Stearns is planning on signing Pete and locking down the worst corner IF defense in baseball for 3-5 years, I’ll eat a checkered fedora.
Miken31
JackStrawb:
What do you think the plan will be if Alonso isn’t brought back? Bregman for third? Someone else?
JackStrawb
@Miken31 With holes at DH and the bullpen (if not the top of the rotation!) I think they’ll move Vientos to 1B, fill 2B and 3B internally and sign a stopgap with upside like Ha-Seong Kim to provide a solid backup at 2B, SS, and 3B, and even start at 2B or 3B. (Still, is Kim going to sign with a team that may not have a starting gig open by the time he’s healthy? Maybe an Iglesias reunion is in the works…)
Without Kim and Mauricio’s medicals, it’s hard to know what the real options are. Is Kim 90% to come back all the way, or 50%? Is he due back May 1st, or June 15th? Is the rumored pillow contract 1/12m correct, or is it going to take two years?
It’s very difficult to parse the critical details at this distance. My guess is that payroll, already at $285m for LT purposes, is going to $325m rather than $360m, and that Stearns and Cohen are very concerned about adding more 30 and over players to an already old team with no Corbin Carrolls in the pipeline.
DugoutJester
2025 CY candidate
Red Sox Restoration Project
Mets are signing everyone but an ace. I’d be surprised if they make the postseason with that current rotation.
Don’t get me wrong- Manaea is solid. But he’s not an ace.
Senga and Manaea are their only locks for good starting pitchers and while I like Senga, I’m not sold on Manaea as anything better than a #3
VonPurpleHayes
They made the postseason last year with Manaea as their ace. I think their rotation is a bit risky, but has tons of upside. If they sign another big bat, they’re absolutely playoff bound.
Red Sox Restoration Project
Bats might get them there but I find the rotation highly questionable
Career 4.01 FIP is good but not ace. Even last year, one of Manaea’s better years, his FIP was 3.81. Pretty high for an ace
YankeesBleacherCreature
The Mets can always trade at the deadline. I wouldn’t bet against them making the playoffs.
Boodge106
This obsession with an ace is pretty funny. The Mets strength last year was their SP despite Senga missing the whole year. The Dodgers just dominated on their way to the World Series with 1/2 of a starting rotation. Also, does the team you have at spring training have to be the same as in September? There is nothing stopping them from trading for a starting pitcher at the trade deadline. They still have their entire farm system intact.
Red Sox Restoration Project
Mets pitching dominated? Not sure about that. They went back and forth several times in the series before the Dodgers. The Dodgers were clear favorites. Mets just had a decent run and almost missed the postseason itself.
Boodge106
Please re-read my post. The Mets strength was their SP and it was amongst the best in the league but not dominant. What I said was dominant was the Dodgers team that barely had any healthy starting pitching.
Red Sox Restoration Project
Yeah i saw that. I just don’t think the rotation is that much of a strength. I think they had a good run. Manaea is career 4.00 FIP pitcher and last year happened to be a contract year and one of his better
Boodge106
I’m not saying the Mets have a top rotation on paper right now. What I am saying is that the need for an “ace” is overblown and true aces are actually incredibly rare in today’s game. Many of the recent World Series winners and the teams that have made deep playoff runs have done it without what most would qualify as an “ace.” I think the Mets will add more to their offense and will have one of the best offenses in baseball. If you have a top offense, great defense up the middle (catcher, middle infield, CF) and a deep rotation that can withstand injury you have a very good shot at making it to the fall classic.
Red Sox Restoration Project
Verlander, Eovaldi, and Yamamoto. Neither of those teams win without those guys and Mets don’t have a pitcher as good as them at their best.
And ironically, Mets traded BOTH Verlander and Scherzer when they easily could have kept one.
Boodge106
Yamomoto pitched 1/2 of a season last year. Verlander was left off the Astros playoff roster. Eovaldi has a career ERA over 4, and Manaea was better than Eovaldi last year. Senga in 2023 (the last year he pitched) was as good as Yamomoto was, results wise.
Also, this is leaving out the possibility of the Mets acquiring an Alcantara from the Marlins or someone similar at the trade deadline.
Red Sox Restoration Project
I think you are right that not having an ace is okay these days, but i wouldn’t put it past them to automatically win if they don’t have one.
We also saw last year that teams with money won and outside of 2024, that has not been a winning factor.
Miken31
Red Sox restoration project:
They didn’t just have a good run though as you keep saying. They had the best record in major-league baseball for 2/3 of the season. That’s not just getting hot in September for a couple weeks. That’s a sustained period of success.
VonPurpleHayes
The Dodgers had an ace for most of the season. They lost most of their bullpen games in the playoffs. Their lineup was so good that losing those games didn’t even matter.
birdland410
Dang it orioles I really wanted him
Why are we waiting on Burnes??????
mlbnyyfan
Burnes should have been signed by either New York teams or Boston. He probably hates playing on the East Coast and wants to play out West.
jvent
We still need an ACE, we should go hard for Sasaki still than go with a 6 man rotation of Sasaki, Manaea, Senga, Montas, Peterson and Holmes, with Canning, Blackburn and Megill all going to the bullpen or traded.
VonPurpleHayes
Sasaki is the hope, but the Mets can’t just outbid for him. They have to hope he wants to come to the Mets more than his other suitors. I still think SD and LA have the edge, but we’ll see.
Salzilla
Good morning, trade rumorists! Weird night of falling asleep early, too many nightmares, constantly waling up, and subsequently waking up late, but looks like a lot action to talk about!
Late coffee and let’s start here:
Manaea at 75 mil feels like a lot? But good for him. I was hoping for one of the dudes that supposedly benefitted from the LAB came back because I was curious to see it in action for one of their graduates. I’m not trying to be jerky, generally curious.
The Mets now have a lot of SP, but I’m not scared of this rotation? Not 100% sure, but it feels done, though. They’ll probably have to trade at least one excess guy for more appropriate bullpen help.
Granted if it were me, I’d just put Holmes in the bullpen and strengthen that. I can’t imagine him being a better starter than some of the backend guys they already have.
Salzilla
Adding: the deferrals now make this a little better, AVV wise.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
That’s why for NYM bolstering their bullpen may have a bigger impact on their 2025 success.
Don’t get me wrong they still need to improve their offense. I’d really like to see them allow an infusion of youth be phased in to the team. Not all their prospects will have a good year and even when they do they are inconsistent with growing pains
In the NL East WASH will be much improved and even MIA will be a feisty young bunch
Salzilla
The obvious answer to the lineup is just get Pete back. I’d assume most of the fanbase wants it.
And yeah that BP needs a lot right now, but that should be renough to remedy.
JackStrawb
Have to say, the worst thing the Mets could do is sign Pete even for 5/125m.
JackStrawb
@Salzilla I thought Holmes was guaranteed a starting gig, or was that just a rumor or an assumption based on some FO statements?
Yeah, with the uncertainty of Senga and how Manaea’s ‘improvement’ in 2024 was based entirely on luck there’s a serious gap at the top of the rotation. I hope if they stop here it means the Mets expect Senga to go 150 innings with a 3.25 ERA, something like that, but if this is more than a team with a median of 90 wins for next season and an outside shot of getting anywhere in the postseason, the one addition they can make that really moves the needle is Cease, or Sasaki (clearly not their call), or Burnes (too many years and his age-related decline is too in sync with Lindor and Nimmo’s), or less so but still very helpful, Luis Castillo.
I have a sinking feeling, though, that we’re only going to see the roster shored up with a JD Martinez-like one-year deal at DH, some bullpen depth, maybe one FA bullpen arm, and maybe Ha-Seong Kim at 1/12m with an expected return date in May 2025.
Still, even those improvements project the team to roughly 90 wins in 2025. There have been worse years.
Salzilla
@Jack
Not into Pete? Who would be your corner infielders? (I like Kim a lot)
I think Senga is a great #2, but yeah they still need a true ace. But with all the guys they do have, it’ll be interesting to see how they go especially with this signing now being the 4th(!) SP they signed.
They did say Holmes as a starter, I’m just not sure why they would with everything they have vs. what they need. Holmes would instantly slot into the eighth. I feel it’s one of those things where they’ll see how things shake out. At least it should be!
JackStrawb
@Salzilla Yeah, sadly I’ve seen the numbers on 30 year old righthanded hitting 1Bmen since 1962, and they’re awful. It’s hard to find even one who’d be worth 3/60m in todays’ money. C Walker’s practically a unicorn, and with Pete’s decline in 2023 and 2024, the die looks pretty well cast. I noticed the other day that there are all of three 1Bmen in MLB who put up 2 WAR or better in 2024 at age 32 or older. Walker, Freddie, and Santana. It’s hard to age gracefully in MLB.
Or if I had to choose Pete or Bregman for similar costs, Bregman’s decline begins from a lot higher place: 5.4, 4.5, 4.1 fWAR 2022-2024, versus 3.8, 2.8, 2.1 for Pete. On a sentimental basis, Pete, absolutely. But for how they’ll do over the next five years, where Bregman moves Vientos to 1B, where he’s already played half a respectable season there in pro ball? Sign me up!
Think you’re right about Senga, especially by the time the postseason rolls around, when even if he’s been in a 6-man he’ll be close to his career-best in innings.
DarrenDreifortsContract
He will come back down to earth next season and Soto won’t have the same protection in that lineup.
Mets miss the playoffs.
Miken31
DarrenDreifortsContrac:
A prognosticator you are not. Soto didn’t have protection outside of Judge last year. That lineup was not feared by opposing pitchers. They knew once they got past Soto and Judge they could breathe easier. Soto doesn’t need protection in the lineup. He’s the protection for everyone else. The guy has had a superstar career. Besides the fact, the Mets have several good hitters in that lineup. Lindor, Vientos, Nimmo, they will be signing another hitter, such as Alonso. Francisco Alvarez still has a lot of potential in his bat as well.
RynoScoobs
Heyyyyyy! They got A pitcher.
BronxBombers23
Garbage rotation. Braves and Phillies are much better.
VonPurpleHayes
The Braves and Phillies have much better rotations. I agree there, but the Mets rotation is still decent and has a lot of depth. If the Mets get Alonso back (big if), they have a pretty killer lineup. The Phillies have a great lineup, but they’re prone to the strikeout. They don’t run those deep counts that exhaust pitchers. The Mets have that, especially with Soto. The Braves lineup is the best of the 3 when healthy, and while their rotation is not as good as the Phillies IMO, it’s still pretty darn good. The NLE is going to be a real tough division, as it usually is.
BronxBombers23
I think Vientos will regress, his K rate is too high. Nimmo is solid, Lindor and Soto are great. I like the Braves lineup much more. Mets lineup isn’t much better than the Phillies lineup, Phillies pitching is better. Imo Mets are the 3rd best team in that division.
VonPurpleHayes
Vientos will likely regress because he’ll be scouted more as well. The sophomore slump is real, and Vientos has earned the respect of the competition. So, he’ll be pitched to more carefully.
And like I said about the Phillies, they have the better offense overall, but they’re prone to the strikeout and can be shutdown often. They really need a hitter to get those long counts, and outside of Harper and Schwarber, they have a bunch of free swingers.
BronxBombers23
I wouldn’t call Trea a free swinger
VonPurpleHayes
Oh he most definitely is. Unfortunately.
Ma4170
Yes phillies more feast or famine offense, but when theyre on, theyre very scary
BronxBombers23
@VonPurpleHayes His Oswing% and k% aren’t that bad.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s less Ks and more double plays. It’s not bad, but Turner is more of a symptom and less of a solution to the Phillies lineup problems.
Lalo says show me
3rd best may still be good enough to make the playoffs, which is all that’s needed.
The central winner will likely be the only team from that division getting in.
The west will have the dodgers and maybe 1 or 2 teams. It’s really a matter of just being one of the top 6 teams.
I don’t think teams will be killing themselves to win the division and get a bye.
Trade deadline will give teams a chance to reassess their chances. No real rush to win the offseason. Mets, as currently constructed, are likely a playoff team and they probably bring back pete.
Carter86
Nobody cares about your stupid opinion Yankee scum
YaGottaBelieveAgain
The NYM 2025 team I believe is going to have many new players, some AAA, some still coming via FA and trades
That could be good and that could be bad
Adding Sasaki would be a big help
I hope they use the DH spot as a rotation of players
Enrico Pallazzo
Where all the people super upset and crying about deferrals? Oh that’s right… you only get mad about this and scream that baseball is broken if it’s a contract from the Dodgers.
mad1
Cry some more
YaGottaBelieveAgain
I think it’s perfectly normal many people get more upset when the amount of $ is so large versus 30%
BTW Enrico do you have any concerts coming up OR any duets with Lady Gaga like Tony Bennett did?
mahalkita
Dude the Mets have been getting slammed for the Bobby Bo deferral for 87 years now.
10centBeerNight
Stearns far from done. Watch for a trade
YaGottaBelieveAgain
They will probably trade a pitcher or 2 between now and the end of spring training. Not the newest additions. They want to have some insurance and depth.
Sasaki is a big domino once he chooses a team and it’s hard to be patient till Jan 15+. He doesn’t only effect Burnes, Flaherty and other pitchers but also relievers and position players in an indirect way once teams just about max out their team salary
Ma4170
midseason trade always a possibility too
SomTeaver
Yeah, the Mets are deferring some money! Keep the jokes coming!
slider32
The Mets changed his slot to a crossfire, they should reap the benefits! Stearns knows how to build a team but this one won’t beat the Dodgers!
mahalkita
Nobody is beating the Dodgers ’til the 2030s.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I thought Manaea signed with the Mets in like November?
highflyballintorightfield
That’s 4 for me in the contest. Tied for 626th place, baby!
bumpy93
I wonder if every team is gonna start doing the deferred money angle now?!?!
Bill M
That’s up to the player
StrandedM'sFanInL.A.
And people are saying Castillo is Overpaid.. SMH
depletion
I’m happy the Mets signed him. They really need to get Alonso done. I wonder if he’s going to be an idiot and miss the start of spring training. The Yanks are out, as has been mentioned here. The Astros just signed C. Walker today. You’ve got the volume on 10, the treble on 10, the bass on 10. Where can you go? Nowhere!
Bill M
You can go to 11.
johncoltrane
Instead of signing montas and canning
Mets should have Traded for l castillo or keller
Or signed burnes or Flaherty
Pads Fans
Wait!! What? I thought only the Dodgers could use deferred money.
This puts CBT value of signing at about $21 million AAV.
Rays in the Bay
A pads fan would never defend the Dodgers. Who are you?
Pads Fans
Not defending them by any means. Making fun of the morons that post something about the league being unfair every time the Dodgers sign a player to a contract with deferrals.
johncoltrane
Mets are in win now mode
How does montas & canning increase mets chances over cy young winner burnes? Or flaherty who just won a WS?
energel
thats alot of money
Rays in the Bay
More surprised by the term and not the money. But man. Very clear gap between the haves and have nots now. I don’t wanna hear Dodgers, Yankees, Mets fans trying to argue differently.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Bobby Bonilla passing the baton to Manea in 2035.
cooperhill
Old news.
energel
always loved Sean.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Mets make the most Mets move ever.
Heard.
johncoltrane
Teoscar is a hitter
Just won WS
and manea is a pitcher
Older than teoscar
Less stats
And teoscar gets $10mil less?
JackStrawb
It’s almost as if there’s a difference between corner OFers whose defense is so bad they’re virtually DHs, and…
a STARTING PITCHER who goes 160 to 180 innings.
energel
wdym less stats? there completely different positions and players
johncoltrane
I mean teoscar contributes more to a tm than manea does. He had a great 2024, shaky few yrs prior to that. Teo has been pretty consistent for abt 5 yrs
I think mets overpaid. And could have easily signed teo but passed on him for some reason
energel
A starting pitcher of Manaeas quality is way more vauleable than Teoscar. You dont get 180 great innings much anymore. and teoscar has little to none defensive vaule, and defeinitly isnt as good as he was with the blue jays. yes, he had a way better year with the dodgers than with the mariners, but manaea is always consitiant and clutch. and those traits are hard to find in SP