The Mets officially announced the signing of Clay Holmes to a three-year deal that allows him to opt out after the second season. It’s a reported $38MM guarantee for the Wasserman client. Holmes will collect $13MM salaries in each of the next two years before deciding whether to opt out of the final year and $12MM. The deal comes with an approximate $12.67MM average annual value for luxury tax purposes. The Mets intend to use Holmes as a starting pitcher.
Holmes, who turns 32 on Opening Day, heads across town after three and a half seasons in the Bronx. He was an inconsistent pitcher for the Pirates between 2018-21. The Yankees, intrigued by his gaudy ground-ball rates, acquired him at the ’21 trade deadline. That move wasn’t met with a ton of fanfare, but Holmes broke out immediately after donning pinstripes.
Owner of a 4.93 earned run average at the time of the trade, Holmes fired 28 innings of 1.61 ERA ball to kick off his Yankees career. He took over as Aaron Boone’s closer by the following season. Holmes saved 20 games with a 2.54 ERA across 63 2/3 innings to earn his first All-Star nod in 2022. He followed up with 63 frames of 2.86 ERA ball while picking up 24 saves.
Holmes got out to another strong start this year. He didn’t allow an earned run over 13 1/3 innings through the end of April. He had a productive May as well, though he started to struggle with his command. That was a sign of a somewhat rocky summer. Holmes posted a 3.64 ERA in 30 appearances between the start of June and the end of August. While his rate production wasn’t terrible, he relinquished a lot of leads. By the start of September, the Yankees had replaced him in the ninth inning with Luke Weaver. Holmes finished the season in a setup role.
The 6’5″ righty concluded the regular season with a 3.14 ERA across 67 innings. He struck out around a quarter of batters faced against a league average 8.1% walk rate. Holmes got grounders at a characteristically excellent 65% clip. It’s far from a bad season, but he was bizarrely prone to blowing leads. While he recorded a career-high 30 saves, he was charged with an MLB-worst 13 blown saves. No other reliever gave up more than eight leads. He went into the postseason trending in the wrong direction after losing the closing job.
To his credit, Holmes rebounded when the lights were brightest. He only gave up three runs in 12 postseason innings. While he’d fallen behind Weaver in the bullpen hierarchy, he remained one of Boone’s most trusted setup options. Holmes picked up five holds without giving up the lead once in October.
That finish was a more fitting ending to his strong run in the Bronx. While the fanbase was divided at times on his reliability, Holmes posted good to elite numbers throughout his Yankee tenure. Of the 86 relievers with at least 150 innings over the past three years, Holmes ranks 17th in ERA. While his 25.7% strikeout percentage is middle of the pack, his 68.6% ground-ball rate is #1 among that group.
There’s no doubt that Holmes can be a productive reliever. The Mets believe he can be more than that. They’ll give him a chance at a full-time rotation role for the first time in his MLB career. Holmes has started four major league games, all of which came during his 2018 rookie season in Pittsburgh. Those didn’t go well — he allowed a 7.80 ERA with more walks than strikeouts in 15 innings — but that’s of little consequence. The Mets aren’t placing any stock in a minuscule sample that predated his breakout by three years.
Like many MLB relievers, Holmes was a starting pitcher in the minors. He’s not completely unfamiliar with working multiple innings, but it’ll be a tough test against big league hitters. He’ll probably need to make an adjustment to his pitch mix. Holmes has essentially abandoned his changeup since moving to the bullpen. His 96-97 MPH sinker is his go-to offering, the pitch most responsible for his huge grounder rates. Holmes has deployed two distinct breaking balls — an 87 MPH slider and an 83-84 MPH offering that Statcast classifies as a sweeper.
Having three pitches is an advantage as Holmes tries to navigate a lineup two or three times in an appearance. However, he hasn’t used a changeup or splitter that most starters have to handle opposite-handed hitters. Holmes has fared well against hitters of either handedness, but his strikeout and walk profile is far better when he holds the platoon advantage.
As a Yankee, Holmes held right-handed batters to a pitiful .203/.267/.284 batting line. He struck them out at a huge 31.7% clip against a tidy 6.2% walk rate. He fanned only 19.8% of left-handed opponents while issuing walks at a 9.8% rate. Holmes still held lefties to a mediocre .235/.318/.307 slash, but that’ll present more of a challenge as he works through a lineup multiple times.
There’s significant upside if Holmes can make that transition. Reliever to rotation success stories have gotten increasingly common. Seth Lugo, Reynaldo López, Garrett Crochet and Holmes’ former teammate Michael King have become top-of-the-rotation starters after spending most of their careers in relief. Jeffrey Springs, José Soriano and Zack Littell look like mid-rotation arms. It hasn’t been uniformly positive, though. Jordan Hicks wore down quickly when the Giants tried him as a starter last season. The Marlins experimented with A.J. Puk in the rotation. They pulled the plug by the end of April after he had four terrible starts.
Puk moved back to the bullpen with relative ease after the rotation experiment flopped. That’s a possibility for Holmes as well. The Mets surely believe he could return to a setup role in front of Edwin Díaz if he doesn’t take to the rotation. They’d be paying a high but not outlandish price for a leverage reliever in that case. Robert Stephenson, Rafael Montero and Taylor Rogers have signed three-year deals in the $33-35MM range in recent years. The Braves guaranteed López $30MM to give him a shot as a starter. Hicks, who is younger than the rest of that group, signed a four-year deal worth $44MM.
MLBTR predicted Holmes would land a three-year, $30MM contract that valued him as a setup arm. The Mets are going a little beyond that based on the perceived upside as a starter. The opt-out gives Holmes a chance to retest the market after two seasons. If he proves he’s capable of starting, he could do quite well in that return trip. There’s precedent for starters getting lucrative three-year deals at age 34. Lugo signed for $45MM, while Yusei Kikuchi and Chris Bassitt each inked $63MM contracts.
Holmes is the second rotation addition for the Mets in recent days. They finalized a two-year, $34MM deal with Frankie Montas on Wednesday. They’ve taken upside fliers in the middle of the market thus far — a strategy they employed to great success last offseason with Sean Manaea and Luis Severino. There should be more rotation moves on the way. New York already lost Severino and could see Manaea and Jose Quintana depart as free agents.
Kodai Senga and David Peterson likely have rotation spots secured, but there’s little certainty with a fifth spot that’d go to one of Tylor Megill or Paul Blackburn at the moment. Senga barely pitched this year, while Holmes could be on an innings limit. The Mets are still potential suitors for a top-of-the-market arm like Corbin Burnes or Max Fried, though president of baseball operations David Stearns has yet to make that kind of move. At the very least, they’ll continue to identify upside targets in the middle of free agency.
Joel Sherman of the New York Post first reported the Mets and Holmes were in agreement on a three-year deal worth $38MM. Jeff Passan of ESPN reported the opt-out clause and confirmed the Mets would use Holmes as a starter, which Sherman first suggested earlier this week. Will Sammon of the Athletic reported the salary breakdown.
Image courtesy of Imagn.
VonPurpleHayes
I believe he was signed as a starter. Mets are filling out that rotation quickly.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Sounds like it was 3yrs/38m definitely starter money.
boblowlaw2
I rather liked season three Von. Unless you actually are Von, in which case I haven’t seen you since the Camden days.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
For Cohen, Clay’s salary is just play-doh.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
Stearns knows more than you.
VonPurpleHayes
Cohen is this big monster who wants to buy everyone. Stearns is cool and calculated and makes smart gambles. The two together make a very dangerous combination. Mets are going to be very good IMO.
Van Lingle Mungo
Actually, he was just stating facts. Clay Holmes has 4 career starts. He is the literal definition of an unproven starter.
Miken31
Van Lingle Mungo:
It’s not a fact to state that the rotation is full of unproven starters. It’s an opinion. David Peterson has had success as a starting pitcher. Frankie Montas has had success as a starting pitcher. Most starting rotations have a lot of uncertainty. Plus, they clearly are not done. They’re going to be adding at least another starting pitcher.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
David Stearns is not the kind of guy to just throw money to see what sticks. He may not be right all the time because nobody is, but he’s a very calculated guy who will have a lot of reasoning behind why he makes a decision. Not sure what hungry kids in Africa have to do with this. Perhaps you should join the peace corps. As far as changing the team and not having chemistry, they had an amazing chemistry last season. And they had a lot of new pieces last year. You saw the run they went on right?
DarrenDreifortsContract
No one is scared.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
They did not get lucky. They played great baseball from June all the way through the end of the season. They were one of the best teams in baseball. Nothing to do with luck. Who is throwing money at anyone? Stearns is incredibly calculated in the contracts he has given out. Look at last off-season.
carlos15
They had 4 proven starters last season beyond Senga.
extreme113
Agree – avg 63 IP last three years and now they expect him to pitch 150+. Good luck.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
OK, you have to living up to your name right now. When Verlander and Scherzer bounce back this season? They’re both cooked. There’s not gonna be any bouncing back at this point. They’re both washed up.
jerseyjohn
I think Holmes the starter is going to be a disaster. We’ll see how it plays out.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
Who cares if others feel the same? It doesn’t mean they’re right. There’s others who also like the deal. I’m not saying I know if it’s going to work out or not but I’m saying I trust David Stearns opinion over you or anyone else posting here. That includes myself. A lot of us think we know more than we do. David Stearns knows more than both of us. If you can’t acknowledge that, then there’s no point to even debate. If you actually think you know better, well I don’t know what to tell you. We are all entitled to our opinions and that’s what we’re doing here. But let’s not act like we know what’s going to happen. I haven’t depicted the Mets as being anything you’re describing. I think they’re becoming a smart organization and they have a terrific baseball president. No one talked about winning 103 games except you.
dugmet
Over a 162 game season saying Senga (who barely pitched) was their only legit starter is a silly comment. Q, Sevy, Manaea, all had established themselves as SPs and were determined to be healthy. All 3 pitched ~170 IP or better. Saying the Mets “wasted it all” is also short-sighted bc the return on investment was a number of top 20 prospects that add depth and quality to the system giving them a position of strength from which to make deals or retain the prospects as cheap assets for a number of years.
PiazzaParty
“throwing money at anyone just to see if that sticks”
You should like him then because that’s your troll policy. Hungry kids in Africa? You’re a jerk.
geofft
@ troll…. Scherzer and Verlander are irrelevant. Scherzer would have been a free agent by now, and Verlander would have had a $35 million club option that any team would certainly have not exerciit would have cost them only half of that money (the Mets would have been on the hook for half of that money).
User 3716094111
I’m going to go out on a limb here to predict Clay is back in the bullpen by August
Flyby
@the troll
Ive also seen it work with Seth Lugo ( who was in consideration for cy young ) and Reynaldo Lopez.
I’m not a fan of this signing nor Montas. I’m trusting Stearns but these two have to be 4 and 5th or 5th and 6th. I’m hoping they go to 6 man with this rotation. Senga just coming back and now Holmes as a starter. Those innings need to go somewhere and they need to sign a 1 or 2 as i think Peterson could push to 3 potentially or maybe Montas surprises.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I’ll raise you one Jordan Hicks.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
Ronaldo Lopez, Seth, Lugo, and Michael King also come to mind. I’m not saying Clay Holmes will turn it to any of them, but let’s not just name the ones who haven’t worked out. There are guys who have worked out as well. Also, if Holmes does end up pitching out of the bullpen, it’s really not that unreasonable of a contract. Top set up guys don’t make much less than what he’s getting paid now anyway.
Miken31
Flyby:
I know the Mets are going to add another starter, but will they add two? I would love to see them sign Manaea and Walker Buehler and go with more of a six man rotation. Plus you know guys are going to get hurt during the season anyway. Not sure what the rest of their plan is.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
I do get worked up at times, but it’s never personal. Lol. We are all here to give our opinions so I appreciate and enjoy that even if I don’t agree with someone. I just think you have to be careful calling the Montas deal awful when he hasn’t pitched yet for the Mets. What if he goes out there and has a year like Severino did last year? The Mets signed Severino and Manaea I both came off terrible years when the Mets signed them and they both had solid years. The reason that Severino was let go in my opinion, is that as the season went on he became more and more hittable. He was very dominant early on and although he still throws hard he’s definitely more of a number three or four starting pitcher at this point. Also, he’s barely pitched the last few years and he pitched a lot of innings last year. It would not surprise me if he never pitched a full season again like he did last year. That seemed to be something of an anomaly if you look at his last few seasons.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
Montas was effective not that long ago. 2021 was a very good season and 2022 was a pretty good season. And then the guy got hurt. I also agree with your other point in I don’t think the Mets are looking at Montas as anything more than a back end option and I think as far as that’s concerned, I think he could fulfill that role with potential to be a mid rotation option. Time will tell. I just have no confidence in Severino being effective and healthy going forward. Again he had an ERA of almost 4 and had poor strikeout numbers and swing and miss numbers. A lot of red flags on resigning him on that deal. Manaea like very much and still hope the Mets bring back. It will be hard to say though because these contracts are getting crazy and it’s hard to imagine giving Manaea a four your contract when he’s going to be 33 years old, but that seems to be in line with the market. Four years $100 million which I would not have thought going into the off-season.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
I would be very happy getting Manaea back. But I really feel like they need to have six viable starters, especially with having a Japanese pitcher like Senga in the the rotation. So if they went out and got Manaea and Buehler, I would be happy calling that an off-season in terms of the starting pitching. I don’t think they need to go out and sign a Burnes or Fried if they do that. There’s also the trade market as well for pictures like Crochet. However, I don’t think Stearns is very eager trade prospects and a guy like Crochet scares me. He just seems like he’s an injury waiting to happen.
Flyby
@miken
Agree guys going to get hurt but you only have so many active spots on the rosters especially for pitchers. If you sign those 2 to guaranteed contract who do you eat as you currently have Senga, Peterson, Blackburn, Holmes, Montas slated for the rotation along with Butto currently in the bullpen who was a starting pitcher and was solid in both setup and starter with i believe no options left and Megill whom i believe has one more option..
So if you sign both of them you now have 7 guaranteed starting contracts with 6 more pitchers for bullpen with spots to Diaz Nunez and Danny Young (no other lefty) along with Butto if he is not on rotation plan. Cant remember if SRF has option left but i dont think so.
This is why i am not a fan of signing both Holmes and Montas at this point as it limits roster spots with these backend guys as i dont see either pushing to even mid rotation and could probably have gotten these types later in the offseason, I hope im wrong though.
My hope was one of the big 3 with severino/manea and buehler being the reclamation for the rotation and megill/butto/blackburn fighting it out for a 6th rotation spot and the other going bullpen (setup or swingmen)
I do like there is some decent depth in the minors in Megill (assuming he has options left) and potentially Sproat Tidwell based on pedigree. Obviously want more but not a bad start.
Miken31
Flyby:
I don’t have Blackburn as a guaranteed rotation guy. He’s coming off a spinal procedure and he’s a generally an up-and-down kind of pitcher. To me at this point he’s depth and/or a bullpen pitcher. He’s not guaranteed a rotation spot as far as I’m concerned. I also have concerns about Holmes starting. If he’s not getting the job done in the rotation he’s then going to become a bullpen pitcher anyway so I think the Mets have to kind of hedge a little bit there. I’m interested to see what direction they go in at this point. I am getting concerned that Manaea’s price point is going to a place they may not want to go considering he’s 33 years old next season and might be getting a four year guaranteed contract now with a very shaky history before last season.
Prediction or Speculation…
Hi, guys, please do not forget the Mets still have Jeremy Hefner pitching coach and staff that help Severino, Manea and Quintana have that kind of season, Now it’s time for Holmes and others to get it together,?
Flyby
@prediction
its not even skill it is literally endurance. Blackburn injured at the end of the year, holmes hasnt been a starter for years, and senga basically being out for the year. Im probably being generous here but i see maybe 300-.350 total starting pitching innings there between the 3 which does not translate into deep in the post season.
Holmes i think ends up in the bullpen halfway through the year i believe to save his arm as he is older and dont think will convert as quickly as the hope. Senga i think gets extra breaks and kid gloves, blackburn i dont think makes it to the end of the year on the team as megill or butto or prospect takes his spot.
vtadave
Is Senga even proven?
JackStrawb
@VonPurpleHayes It’s not a rotation move, though—it’s more a 162 starts move.
Even if he’s healthy what’s Senga projectable for?
–Say 140 innings. 25 GS
–Peterson’s in the 100-125 inning range. 22 GS
–Montas 135 IP, 25 GS
–Clay Holmes 110 IP, 22 GS
–Megill 75 IP, 15 GS
That’s 109 starts.
There’s likely to be a lot of patching and filling and no real expectation of a steady #1 through #5, 1 through 5, 1 through 5 again and again throughout the season. (And that’s if the Mets don’t go with a 6-man for much of the year.)
I’ll be a little surprised assuming they’re going over the LT threshold if they don’t sign a solid #1. They can’t really rely on Senga to be what he was in 2023. Walker Buehler’s probably the least they’d add after signing Holmes, and Buehler’s also another guy who’s more a 20-25 GS SP than he is someone who cleanly fills a rotation slot.
VonPurpleHayes
Oh yeah. They’re definitely going after more SP. A reunion with Manaea. Or perhaps something even bigger like Burnes.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
Peterson is a guy who always makes me nervous. I have to acknowledge he did a good job last year but as you said let’s on too many base runners. He is that prototypical lefty who you never quite know what to expect from him, but he was all in all pretty consistent last year. I’m hoping he’s figured things out, but I don’t totally trust him.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
See I’m not a biased Mets fan after all. I just tell it the way I see it. Lol.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
I don’t think that Cohen criticism is fair any longer. Not at least since Stearns came. Look at last off-season. They didn’t throw money around like crazy. And the deals they gave here, although I know you don’t love the Montas deal, these are short term deals.
Miken31
The biggest troll:
It was really never about a full on rebuild. They were just kind of taking a one season step back. There’s too much good veteran talent on this team. They were never going to tear it all down. They just realized that Scherzer and Verlander weren’t going to get them where they wanted to get to and they were absolutely right. They got really good prospects for those pitchers and they both were bad and broken down this year. Those were great decisions. The Mets have a pretty solid farm system. They have a pretty good major league team so there’s no reason to tear anything else down. It’s about building it up now. And part of that building is going to be about spending money. And when a guy like Soto becomes available and you’re the owner with the most money you’d have to be a fool not to be heavily involved in that. Where Montas is concerned I can’t see that the Mets will be too upset with that deal when they signed him to be a backend rotation pitcher. I just think they’re looking for innings from him and some potential upside. It wasn’t that long ago that the guy was a solid picture. And it’s not like he just lost it. He had some serious injury issues. He’s another year away from surgery so there could be some upside there. If not, it’s a short deal and again he’s a backendpitcher. Not a major deal either way.
JackStrawb
@Miken31 Several drawbacks, however.
–The Mets farm is very ordinary.
–They dealt away Scherzer, Verlander, and 5 more useful players in 2023 and didn’t get back anyone who had a good, reasonably full season in 2024 in AA or AAA. In fact they have no one coming off a good, reasonably full season in AA or AAA who will be on the next good Mets team.
–2024 wasn’t by design so much as it was the residue of design, the 1 in 10 shot that came home. Stearns did good work and also got very, very lucky. Consider that his backup MIer was so bad he was off the team in short order. His replacement, an emergency pickup, contributed the 2nd highest WAR on the team despite getting 0 MLB PA in 2023.
–the 2025 Mets nucleus is old. Are they the oldest team in baseball? They might be, especially with no one in the minors likely to be a significant contributor in 2025 in MLB. Btw, do we even know if the Mets are going over the LT threshold if they miss on Soto? They’re under the first threshold by about $39m.
Miken31
To JackStrawb:
The Mets have a solid farm system, but they don’t have a lot of huge top end prospects. However, they have several prospects who fall in the top 50 to 100 range plus several other interesting prospects as well. It’s not the best farm system in baseball but it’s considered a pretty good farm system by several major publications. Certainly I’m no expert in the minor leaguesystem and I assume you’re not either but when it comes to minor league, projections can be off anyway, even by the supposed experts. .You can use the term ordinary. I don’t exactly know what that’s considered in terms of ranking though. I guess middle of the pack? I’ve seen them ranked consistently higher than that by most major publications, but it’s semantics. As far as who they got for Scherzer and Verlander we know some of those guys had down seasons in the minor leagues, but they’re still considered to be very good prospects. Development is not a linear thin. I’d say Acuña definitely showed some potential when he came up to the majors at the end of the year. As far as the nucleus being old, I guess it depends on who you consider to be the nucleus. Lindor is not old. Nimmo is not young, but certainly not old either. Vientos I would say is part of the nucleus now and he’s young. Alvarez needs to improve, but we expect him to be part of the nucleus and obviously he’s young. If we’re talking about adding Soto, he’s obviously young. So just trying to figure out exactly who you’re referring to there.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
The Mets will likely sign a #1 starter, like Burnes or Fried and then be done with the rotation. I think they saw how the Dodgers managed their starting pitching last season and emulate that. Just plug guys in as needed and mix and match and spread the starting rotation innings over seven or eight pitchers. Not everyone can be the Seattle Mariners where the same 5 guys can go all season long.
Ma4170
I dont see them signing an ace like burnes or fried. I think they like sticking w the shorter commitments unless the pitcher is very young. I could see two of manaea eovaldi buehler being signed.
JackStrawb
Either that or they’ll deal for Crochet. Especially with Senga so iffy they need a TOR.
HalosHeavenJJ
So he was close to signing.
Always interesting when guys move across town.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Does this mean Soto crosses town!!!
YourDreamGM
If signing Montas and making a reliever a starter doesn’t make him buy into them as a world series contender nothing will.
Raymond Flagstaff
Yuck yuck
Yankee Clipper
Yes, Soto does cross town, but that’s just to go to the airport.
FletcherFan
To fly to his new home in Boston
Yankee Clipper
Haha, touché!
kingbum
Anybody else see on Bleacher Report Boston is calling for one more meeting with Soto where they want Soto to name his price. That they will give him what he wants but he has to sign right there, shutting Cohen out who has said he will top any offer given by $50 million. They are saying Boston is starting at 15 years for 675 million.
Samuel
With Steans running the baseball end, the Mets are well on their
way to exposing Hal and Cash for the amateurs they are.
The next few years are going to be hilarious.
Thurman15
You mean sorta like last 40 years for Mutts ?? 2000 STILL STINGS HUH ?
Raymond Flagstaff
No it doesnt. 2006 does. 2000 was a sham due to steroids
carlos15
Yankees had steroid users in 2000 and 2009, neither are legit.
Thurman15
LOL.If that makes you feel better knock yourself out.
28rings
Every team had steroid users those years
Thurman15
P.S. : Mutts will always red headed stepchild to Yankees brother !
Samuel
Thurman15;
Not a Mets fan, but a big David Stearns fan.
He was not in charge the last 40 years. And he has an owner that – if anything – is spending too much money.
Stearns will have the coaches work with Holmes (not that Matt Blake in not one of the best pitching coaches in MLB) to just last 3-4 innings unless he’s having a good game and is rested. The most successful organizations in MLB over the last few years are those that bring along players as the season moves on. The most important area of a team is the bullpen. Square that away the last 2 months of the season and your team is gold. That’s what the Mets did in 2024.
NYCPetrovic
Your team came from Baltimore. If anyone is the adopted step brother it’s you guys.
LongTimeFan1
@Thurman,
What does bullying do for you?
Thurman15
Oh no I’m a bully ! Are you 8 years old ?
Thurman15
What ??? How the hell did Yankees come from Baltimore? LOL
Thurman15
Time will tell. Holmes gagged for Yankees in 2nd half. Don’t think he has the stamina to go 5 or 6. Opener for 2 – 3 ?
Mlbfan78
Back in 1901 there was the Baltimore Orioles, and in 1903 they moved to New York to become the Highlanders as an AL team to match the NY Giants who were already established in the NL.
In 1913 the Highlanders were renamed the Yankees and well here we are lol.
But yes the Yankees were originally the Baltimore Orioles.
tcarvel
No but you’re obviously not mature.
Raymond Flagstaff
Good luck living in the last century guys
metsin4
The Mets swept them by a combined score of 36-14 last year. It looks like your red headed stepchild’s mom divorced your ass and moved on to something better.
Blue Baron
Thurman15: The Yankees were founded as the New York Highlanders in 1903, when two guys named Frank Farrell and Bill Devery purchased the Baltimore Orioles and moved the franchise. LOL.
Being ignorant of your team’s history is pathetic. LOL.
marcfrombrooklyn
It’s the life’s breath to Yankee fans. I’ve been dealing with these classless entitled bullies all my life.
Thurman15
2000 4 – 1 regular season queen
Raymond Flagstaff
@thurman15 calling people little girls while claiming you are not immature or a bully? Lol
Blue Baron
Thurman15: An ignorant shmuck is more accurate.
Thurman15
I have forgotten more then you will ever know !
Thurman15
I wish I could be you. Wish ny name was Raymond ! NOT
Raymond Flagstaff
Is that why u seem to know so little.
Raymond Flagstaff
Have a nice life talking like a stooge. Bye!
Thurman15
If your mom wasn’t in the Cockpit I wouldn’t have crashed. ! My reply is almost as classless as your “humor”. Another frustrated jealous Mutts fan ?
Blue Baron
Thurman15: Obviously not given that I had to teach you about the Yankees’ founding.
But you would do well to forget how to be such an angry, ignorant shmuck.
Blue Baron
Thurman15: The Yankees haven’t given us any cause for jealousy in 25 years.
Thurman15
Angry ? LOL ! You gotta be a Mutts fan.
Thurman15
Who do you play for ? Us ?
Blue Baron
There are some incredibly dumb people in the world. Thanks for helping us understand that.
Thurman15
Are you NYC Petrovic also ? Posting under 2 names to match your schizo personality ?
Thurman15
My pleasure to expose you !
Bucket Number Six
My mom is still alive, Thurman. You must have had your hand on something else other than the controls.
Thurman15
LOTS of other Cockpit to head to !
avenger65
Mlbfan78: I have it as, in 1901 the Milwaukee Brewers, who lasted one season, became the St. Louis Browns from 1902-1953. In 1954 the Browns moved to Baltimore and became the Orioles.
As for the Yankees, they started in 1903 as the New York Highlanders. In 1913 they changed their name to the Yankees. This is according to BR.
avenger65
Blue Baron: I had it differently in my post (see above), but your explanation. It seems there have been several iterations of the Baltimore Orioles including my favorite, the 1894-96 version, known as the dirtiest team to have played the game. I believe their last year of existence was 1898 or ’99.
Blue Baron
Thurman15: Nothing to be jealous of. The RED SOX have won four since 2004.
I know you’re happy for the fans in Boston, eh shmucko?
Blue Baron
Who’s NYC Petrovic?
Thurman15
The guy that ACTUALLY posted reply to me about Baltimore going defunct before Yankees took over franchise in 1903.
Thurman15
So you what are you Mutts or Sux fan ? To afraid to step up ? Either way it’s 2 WS wins for Mutts since 1960’s & 4 WS Wins for Sux since 1918. As Nets player said : WHOOP DE DAMN DOO ! So who do you play for ? As in US
Blue Baron
What’s it to you and why does it matter? How old are you, 12?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Thurman15,
Why do you put down blended families or kids based on their gender or hair color? Are you unable to explain the merits of your position without attacking little kids?
Just Rob
In the early 19000’s. Franchise that is the Yankees used to be the triple A Baltimore Orioles. #history of course, that was before the Model T, so…
Mlbfan78
Yeah the original Baltimore Orioles started in 1901, 2 years later they moved to NY and became the Highlanders.
nonchalanto
The Yankees were in the world series last year. (Hal and Cash)
Blue Baron
nonchalanto: Only because the AL was weak. The Mets and Padres both played the Dodgers tougher.
Blackpink in the area
Well he’s probably not gonna close there. I wonder if they move him to the rotation or just a really good setup guy.
VonPurpleHayes
Rotation contract.
Blackpink in the area
Who knows if that works out. I imagine they can always move him back to the pen if needed. It’s less per year than Boyd got seems like a good price still but who knows.
KnicksFanCavsFan
$12 per isn’t much for a SP. Look at what Beiber got, and they don’t even know when he’ll be ready to pitch. That’s absolutely the market price for a good closer.
VonPurpleHayes
Right but Diaz is the closer. So I’m comparing this to mid reliever money.
YourDreamGM
7th 8th inning guys get paid too. If you are capable of 300m and want to contend why not have 2 guys who could close if need be. Or 3.
KnicksFanCavsFan
I just read the update that allegedly, they see him as a starter, which to.me, is mind-boggling. They couldn’t find a better way to spend that money on a starter?. This guy has no history of pitching as a starter in professional baseball. You need to expect 6 innings out of him. Can he build up the strength for that workload. Sounds like an invitation to an arm injury.
TigersLoveCinnamon
He started in college all the way until 2018, he even reached 136 innings until teams got impatient, and he turned into a real good reliever. This has become a trend lately. Will it work? Who knows. But much like the giants contact with hicks they got time to figure it out
Tigers3232
I like this move by the Mets. He’s got a high ceiling and worst case if starting doesn’t work he’s proven in a variety of relief roles.
VonPurpleHayes
That’s fair, but I’m also basing the fact that Holmes expressed a desire to be a starter.
Either way I like the signing for the Mets.
Raymond Flagstaff
Its an ok point but at this moment in time I trust stearns and the mets more than anyone including myself certainly not randos on the internet. Stearns has proved savy with moves like this and for so little money its comical people wanna tear it down
Tigers3232
This path with Lugo and Martinez worked quite well. I agree with your sentiment of trust Stearns.
I’ve gotta assume Mets scouts and pitching coaches see something they feel they can work with as far as Holmes and starting.
Raymond Flagstaff
Yea 100% and that comes at a price they dont even bat an eye at, so they can focus their attention forward
yick04
Guess this means they’re out of the Soto race!
metsin4
Holmes and Soto are really good friends.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Besties?
Yankee Clipper
They complete each other’s sentences….
metsin4
Like both of them saying adios to the Yankees.
Yankee Clipper
Well, technically…… only one of them would say, “adios,” and the other would say, “Yankees.”
metsin4
Well I guess the dream is still alive for Yankee fans a few more days.
Yankee Clipper
A few more days…… we can dream
CaseyAbell
MLBTR projected three years and $30 million for this guy. Given the pitcher overpays so far, he might get $40+ million. Especially from Steve Cohen, who has some money (or so I’m told).
YourDreamGM
Did they project him as a starter and to go to NY LA? 3 30 is pretty close.
Projections need to have opt outs as well. Everyone has been getting them for awhile now.
Raymond Flagstaff
Guess teams see the option as a motivatng factor
Yanks4life22
Back in ancient times a lot of pitchers used to start out in the bullpen and work their way into the rotation….
johncoltrane
Clay is 32 yrs old on opening day
Isnt that a bit late to work your “way into the rotation….”?
metsin4
Lugo did it last year.
Tigers3232
@john Not at all late. Hes not switching from 1B to CF relying on speed. He’s throwing a ball just like he has. Instead of doing it in short bursts more frequently, he ll be focusing on conserving arm and going longer in less frequent appearances.
Biggest issue facing him I’d say would be how he approaches game management and works out of jamns. A closer most often powers through. As a starter there’s a balance of conserving arm for later innings and being effective.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
@johncoltrane
I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember, but the Mets are the franchise that was once calling Aaron Heilman a “prospect” into his age-30 season. So maybe that’s the line of thinking when this other person is trying to allude to 32-year ole Holmes working his way to starting.
johncoltrane
Dont mention the name aaron heilman to met fans
EVER
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Aaron Heilman…oldest “prospect” in MLB history.
Johnny Devil
32 is young in today’s MLB . No wear and tear on Holmes arm. Nice pickup for the mets.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
@Johnny Devil
Yeah, because Father Time has changed how he operates with the aging process because, other than PED use, all of the sudden guys at age 32 have so many years left in their MLB careers.
johncoltrane
@devil
being a SP and being a RP are 2 very different animals
for years he’s been playing chess
now he’s gonna be playing checkers
32 might not be old but he’s definitely in the 2nd half of his career
a bit late to start playing checkers if you ask me
Raymond Flagstaff
Checkers? Really?
Mikenmn
This was Earl Weaver’s route also. Pitch in long relief before you started
yeasties
bonus point for the Earl Weaver namedrop
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Nobody names their kid “Earl” anymore.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
I’m trying to recall any 32-year olds that were on that plan under Earl Weaver. I can’t think of one single one.
solaris602
My gut tells me Holmes is somehow gonna end up back with the Yankees before this contract is up.
Miken31
solaris602:
Your gut was seemingly be a pretty unreliable source then.
CaseyAbell
Oh, I just saw the $38 million figure. I wasn’t too far off as the prices for starting pitchers continue to go through the roof. This is starting to look like Bitcoin’s price action lately.
bwmiller79
I wouldn’t count on Clay Holmes having the same success as Michael King or Seth Lugo.
Raymond Flagstaff
Ge knows he is only starting if mets dont score huge im FA market. Imo
Patriot12992
Don’t forget about the reigning NL Cy young winner, Sale was a reliver for his first 2 seasons.
Blackpink in the area
3 years 38 million is a good price. I like this move for the Mets as long as he’s a reliever. Starter meh i don’t know.
VonPurpleHayes
That’s starter money.
Blackpink in the area
Good relievers make that much. And he is a good reliever. Only 3 years too. I like the contract just not sure if the starter thing works out.
Wrian Washman
No it’s not stop saying that. 13 mil/year hasn’t been starter money since 2012. Chapman got almost 11. This is going rate for upper tier relievers. That’s not to say he won’t start, just that you spamming “that’s starter money” is incorrect.
Bucket Number Six
It’s starter money for a guy who hasn’t started.
VonPurpleHayes
It’s been confirmed they’re signing him as a starter. So nanny nanny poo poo to you, good sir.
I’m kidding of course. Hah forgive me. I like this signing.
bwmiller79
That is true. It’s worth giving him a spot in the rotation, can always move him back to the bullpen if he isn’t effective as a starter.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
As a starter that’s a very team friendly deal, but also pretty fair given Holmes’ holes in his approach and his streak I was.
HatlessPete
It’s basically a hedged swing man kind of valuation imo. If he sticks as a starter it’s probably a fair to bargain valuation depending on how successful he is in that role. If he doesn’t stick in the rotation but provides good value as a late inning/set up bullpen arm its at worst a slight overpay for that kind of return.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Yup
Cambo
Yankees fans should be delighted
CravenMoorehead
Best of luck to Clay and congrats to him on the contract but yeah I can’t say I’m upset that he’s going to Queens.
MacGromit
Come on Fisher. You missed on this one. But I’m sure we’re going to hear that the A’s had serious interest and an offer out on Holmes too.
For now, Queens can hate on him like the Bronx did.
Yankee Clipper
They weren’t able to get the Vegas City Commission to approve taxpayer funds for his salary in time.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Mac
He may be Holmes, but you’re no Sherlock.
Ronk325
Mets are gonna Met
Miken31
Ronk325:
By that do you mean going to the playoffs as they did last year?
Ronk325
No, I mean giving out awful contracts in free agency. Also, barring some major additions, the Mets are far from a sure thing to go back to the postseason next year
Miken31
Ronk325:
They have one of the best baseball executives in the game in David Sterns. They haven’t been giving out any bad contracts. It’s been quite the opposite. The Mets will make major auditions and nobody can say for sure they will go to the playoffs, but I’m quite certain by the end of the off-season they will be one of the teams favored to make the postseason. That’s logical.
Ronk325
This contract for Holmes and the one for Montas are both terrible. The contracts for Scherzer and Verlander were also bad even if Cohen was able to eat the money and move them. The Edwin Diaz contract has been a mixed bag so far and looks like an overpay. Meanwhile guys like Wheeler and Lugo walked under Cohen’s ownership while he was busy handing out deals to inferior pitchers
Miken31
Ronk325:
How could you possibly know if the contracts for Montas and Holmes are bad when they haven’t even pitched for the Mets yet? In case you didn’t notice, the Mets did a great job of pulling pitchers off the scrap heap last year and getting the best out of them. They have a very advanced pitching lab to get the best out of pitchers. Verlander and Scherzer are irrelevant because they were signed before Stearns was even in charge. And you’re all over the place bringing up Zach Wheeler. Zach Wheeler left the Mets before Cohen even owned them. Get your facts right.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Yeah @Ronk325, like @Miken31 says…Stearns is the fourth best executive in the NL East, so he’s top five in our division.
Miken31
BannedMarlinsFanBase:
I’m sorry what team do you root for? What’s this Marlins that you speak of? I didn’t even know they existed.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
@Miken31
They are the Marlins…one of the NL East teams that has won a championshionship in this century.
And good job with the antiquated, ESPN-esque jokes about the team.
Miken31
BannedMarlinsFanBase:
It’s not a joke. You root for an irrelevant franchise. One with no hope and nothing to watch. Enjoy!
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Yep, I see we may have history repeating. I remember back in 1998, Mets fans said the same thing…and many even guaranteed that the Mets would win a championship before hte Marlins won another one. That didn’t work out so well.
Do you want to guarantee the Mets will win anotehr championship before the Marlins win another one?
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
Ah yes…. the Marlins troll visits Mets news again. What happened? Did your franchise release the Uber driver they signed as the closer?
Do you remember how you trashed the Mets during the entirety of the 2024 season… except for those last 2 months? I thought about you in September when I was at the Brewers games. And then I stopped thinking because I was watching current playoff teams play meaningful baseball.
Miken31
62-100… your team is closer to the White Sox than the Mets. Sure I’ll guarantee the Mets will win a championship before the Marlins. I think the Marlins are more likely to get contracted than win another championship.
Miken31
62-100
BannedMarlinsFanBase
I’ll save this. Please say it every day until one of them wins one…and if it turns out to be the Marlins (again), don’t hide.
Well, welcome to Mets fandom. When you get your Mets fan card, it’s okay if it says you started in mid-June 2024.
Miken31
I’m also going to guarantee the Marlins will get contracted before the Mets.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
@SeeUonTheUlnarSide
Wait? Meaningful baseball? But, wreren’t you one of the Mets fans that defended your Mets fans not showing up to watch the final series the Marlins had in 2023?
Hmmm…you are contradicting yourself. If you like waytching meaningful baseball, you wouldn’e have defended your fan base for bailing on the Mets for that series. And I remember several of you stating that it was a meaningless game for Mets fans since they were done since May in 2023.
So I guess baseball fandom is only when it’s your team winning – not when others are winning and your team is done.
Never Remember
Good they are aiming for third.
johncoltrane
Seems to be a typo
Says mets view him as a starter
THEY LIVE!!!
Everything the Mets touch turns to human waste…
The McNasty1
Cry harder
Miken31
THEY LIVE!!!:
It’s funny you would think that they didn’t make it to the National League Championship Series last year with comments like this.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Oh man! I think we’re going to hear about that 2024 NLCS appearance for years to come! It’ll be like we heard about 1969 every year until 1986, and how we heard about 1986 until other fan bases started ridiculing it for being the longest championship drought in the NL East and one of the 10 longest championship droughts in MLB. Now it’s “We got to the 2024 NLCS!” pride.
Miken31
BannedMarlinsFanBase:
Well, maybe it won’t be talked about forever, but it did just happen, you know, like two months ago. Again, what team do you root for? Are the Marlins like a AA team or something that I never heard of?
BannedMarlinsFanBase
The Marlins are one of the NL East teams that has won a championship in this century. I guess you only watch baseball in the years the Mets are good. But don’t worry. You’re not the only Mets fan on these boards like that. You guys like fair weather for bandwagon rides. And proven that if you don’t know the Marlins, you didn’t start watching baseball until after the 2023 Playoffs…which I’m guessing your fandom started in mid-June 2024.
Miken31
BannedMarlinsFanBase:
Seems as though you’re the one who is stuck in the past. Probably because you realize the Marlins don’t have much of a future.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
OK, let’s talk present. Marlins are not the 2024 World Series Champions. And the Mets are not the 2024 World Series Champions.
Miken31
Yes let’s talk about the present. That discussion is not going to end well for you.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
How? Did the Mets win the 2024 World Series and nobody knew? Hmmm. i keep checking…and both the Mets and the Marlins are not the 2024 World Series Champions.
And I’m checking the last five years of recent history, and the Marlins and the Mets have both had two playoff seasons. Am I wrong about that recent history?
And what about in this century? I see the Marlins won a World Series in this century. I don’t see that the Mets have won a World Series in this century.
So how has recent history not going well for me? The last five years, your team and my team have made the playoffs the same number of times, and neither one of them have won the World Series. And when I look at this century, my team won a World Series and yours didn’t. And when I look at the history of our entire division, the Mets have the longest championship drought. And I look at MLB history, and the Mets have one of the 10 longest championship droughts in MLB – last winning one when there were only 26 teams.
I’m still trying to figure out how recent history won’t go well for me. I looked the last five years. I looked at this century. I looked at the last 50 years.
Miken31
No, the Mets didn’t win the World Series but they’re, you know, a competitive team. You might have to look in the dictionary to actually know what that is. I know you can’t see it from watching the product on the field of what the Marlins are putting out there. You can spinning it anyway you want, but the trajectory of these franchises are in opposite directions. Keep living in denial.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
I’m trying to figure out. What banner hands on a stadium for being competitive?
And I also wonder. Is a trophy for being competitive like when they give kids a Certificate of Participation or when a rec league gives out a trophy for everyone?
You know, you got me curious. Next time I’m in New York in a few weeks, I’ll go y CitiField to see what those being comptetive banners and flags look like on that stadium.
So we’re good since you gave me the guarantee that your Mets will win their next championship before the Marlins win their next one.
Miken31
Banned Marlins fan base:
At the end of the day, this is supposed to be entertainment, right? So isnt there something to be said about a team that’s competitive and wins games and gives some exciting moments as opposed to a team that is already out of it before opening day even starts? Isn’t it about being able to root your team knowing they have a chance to win as opposed to rooting for a team that you know has zero chance to win.. And if you think your team has more than zero chance to win, you are in a deeper state of denial than I even realized.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Hmmmm…So, a team that has won two championships has zero chance to win another? So a team that has one of the 10 longest chanpionship droughts and longest championship drought in the divison has a better chance? Thank you for explaining that to me.
BTW…it’s kind of surprising to see a Mets fan saying that any team has zero chance before Opening Day. I thought that would not be something any Mets, Dodgers, or Marlins fans would ever say. After all, I guess the 1969 Mets, 1988 Dodgers, and 2003 Marlins proved that when people say a team has zero chance, they will not win.
Again, thank you for saying that. But we both know you’ll disappear if it ever backfires.
Miken31
Banned Marlins fan base:
Those championships were a long time ago and another landscape. The Marlins do not have the finances to compete and they are light years away from doing anything.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Yeah, because the 2003 Marlins were right there financially with the Mets, Giants, Cubs, and Yankees in 2003.
Like I’ve said, thank you for the statement. I do hope you’re around if it backfires. But we both know you won’t be.
Miken31
Banned Marlins fan base:
You have to understand the disparity is so much greater proportionally to what it was back then. Tell me the Marlins road to contention. What do they have on their roster and then their mind league system that’s gonna make them contend for a World Series again anytime soon? You know, before they have to trade all those players off because they can’t afford them. I’ll be here and nothing will be backfiring because the Marlins won’t be winning anything.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
The path to contention? There is the 6th playoff spot in each league that allows any team floating around .500 to make the postseason. And in baseball, all you have to do is make it in. Both Marlins championships and all 4 of their playoff appearances are via the Wild Card.
But again, thank you for saying they won’t.
And a little FYI…at the moment, the Marlins pitching staff when healthy is better than your Mets pitching staff. The question I admit is health though. And if you think your current Mets staff is better than the Marlins staff when it’s healthy, you don’t know baseball.
Miken31
Banned Marlins fan base:
Your team is god awful. Again the Marlins are closer to the White Sox than a playoff spot. As a fan of course you should dream and watch your team and support them. But you’re the one who started this debate with me. I wouldn’t even bother starting with the Marlins fan because your franchise is so irrelevant. Yes, and I’m sure that the Marlins pitching staff is better than the Mets pitching staff when healthy. Yeah OK whatever. Enjoy a 60 win season.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Thank you!
Ahem…1986!
Miken31
Banned Marlins fan base:
All you’re able to do is hold on to past championships because you know your team is nowhere near contention. I’m not worried about past championships. I’m focused on next season and future seasons. I really don’t care about 1986.
Raymond Flagstaff
Mets going with rebuilt options in the rotation again, presumably leaving the cash hoard for more steady hitters. My guess is they like the optionality of keeping him in the pen and so no starters can leverage an empty spot on them in the rotation. Its a solid strategy if they felt that 2 of buehler, burnes, and fried were not obtainable. I would somewhat expect a few more stabilizi g moves like this to help teper the mets need so many guys bargaining chip
YourDreamGM
Its the better value.
Samuel
MLB is now a bullpen game.
The average start in 2024 was for 5-1/3 innings.
Most starters the next few years will only be asked to last 3, maybe 4 innings.
Starters get hurt. Really dumb to pay them $20-30-40 million a year to cover 160 or so innings (at best) in a 1,400 inning regular season.
Raymond Flagstaff
It is by choice and can again choose to go back. certainly hasnt improved the quality of pitching imo
cbraves
My guess is he will wind up back in the pen before the end of the season.
YourDreamGM
Well he’s not pitching 200 innings.
MacGromit
Is Holmes = Lugo? We’ll see if he can have the success Lugo does.
johncoltrane
Lugo began as a SP.
clay has never started a gm in his 7 year major lg career
Camikey
This is untrue.
Tigers3232
Nearly every pitcher came in as a starter. Ultimately it’s still the same position and involves throwing.
The main issues is training and preparing for less frequent longer roles opposed to the opposite. Much of that is conerving arm, pitch selection, and game management. Him being a veteran amd having pitched in high leverage situations he has experience on his side. He also has thrown quite a few different type pitches throughout his career.
It seems he’s going to need to start throwing a changeup again if he’s going to go deep into games. He is not going to throw past batters for 5-6 innings with hi sinker.
Ma4170
I’m not getting why the Mets feel he can successfully make the transition to the rotation. They must for a minimum of two years.
These middling additions to the rotation tell me they must feel pretty good about signing soto.
Raymond Flagstaff
Yea and alonso imo
Ma4170
You think both?
Raymond Flagstaff
Very much so. Seems a no brainer to me unless someone goes crazy for alonso. If mets are going to be somwhat quiet on the SP market they want a really stacked lineup like dodgers last year. With soto in that lineup they could have a better one. And of course the conjecture is they have 150 million they theoretically could spend
rct
I think so. If they’re trimming around the edges for pitching, I would expect them to make some costly moves elsewhere. Unless they’re planning for a Fried or Burnes deal, which I don’t think will happen.
Ma4170
They need to strengthen that pen
VonPurpleHayes
I think they’re just making early investments before the pitching market gets crazy. They still need a top of the rotation guy even if they get Soto. I fully expect the Mets to get a true #1, but I like this signing. Lots of upside.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
@VonPurpleHayes
There’s a lot of downside to this signing too.
Yankee Clipper
I wonder if this is also a result of the skyrocketing prices for SPs, especially those managed by Boras.
Well, either way, may the best team win the Soto Sweepstakes!
Raymond Flagstaff
Blame boras for the government inflating drastically?
Yankee Clipper
No, I think you misunderstood my statement. Boras is well-known for seeking to break the next record with each successive client, and will hold fast to incredibly high price demands, despite a market which is telling a different story (see last season for examples).
So, the market is not dictated by Boras, but when owners think it’s too inflated already, you will not see the top Boras guys signed, so teams start to move on.
Government inflation is (in part) due to government participating in fiscally irresponsible, or unethical, practices (or fraudulent) which wastes taxpayers’ money, in conjunction with steep increases in taxes to fund such activity.
10centBeerNight
Interesting. Stearn analytics dept clearly like what they see
Raymond Flagstaff
Stars and scrubs. Use staffing coaching and analytics to take the scrubs and help them play at their potential. I had manaea montas and severino type guys in fantasy so many times i won leagues. Makes much more sense to go wild for hitters imo. Yes they may have gotten a bit of trouble from the dodgers lineup but the mets tool 2 and in my opinion would split with that dodgers team if they kept going. I would expect aheavily fortified bullpen would have saved the mets
HiredGun23
Phew…glad to wasn’t the Friars.
mostlytoasty
this is an expensive experiment for someone that will be 32 in March
Raymond Flagstaff
I thought it seemed very cheap
Reyday
Not really he’s about 12.5MM/year, Chapman just got almost 11MM. If he works out in the rotation it’s a steal, if not he’s a top paid set up man.
rct
If the experiment fails, he’s back to being a reliever, where he’s been very good. Even with his struggles last year, he still finished with a 132 ERA+ and a 3.02 FIP.
mostlytoasty
Still seems high for a guy that’s probably done closing if he has to go back to relief. But prices seem up so it’s not terrible. Just odd to do late-ish in his career
Raymond Flagstaff
Not a man in a million understands inflation. Guess what todays contracts will look cheap in 5 years. Its the dollar thats broken, nothing to do with cohen or boras
YankeesBleacherCreature
@mostlytoasty It’s his one shot to make the next big payday. Holmes likely left money and a fourth year on the table by insisting on an opt-out. No team was going to pay him elite closer money.
mostlytoasty
Yeah I didn’t he was gonna get elite closer money cause he ain’t an elite closer
Raymond Flagstaff
One doesnt have to be an elite closer to be an elite reliever
mostlytoasty
Yes but the two get paid differently
Raymond Flagstaff
Convention leads people to do all sorts of strange things
sabernar
He couldn’t get through one inning without giving up runs. How is he going to get through 5?
Raymond Flagstaff
Thats challenging considering the ERA, would love to see it!
YourDreamGM
I can see a starter or something in between. If it doesn’t work out move to pen. $ fair enough for the potential reward.
bravesfan
Derp, we want to be like the Braves
Welp
Dude hasn’t started a game in six years…
The McNasty1
Another great acquisition by Stearns
Raymond Flagstaff
An enormous budget helps in all locations if you have good management
Attystephenadams
So far I like Stearns’ moves. A year ago he said that he thought that a team could win without ace type pitchers, and he went out and got Severino and Manaea on team friendly contracts, and we saw what the results were. This year it’s Montas and Holmes. I’m sure he’d love to have Manaea back, but given the inflated price of starting pitchers I wouldn’t be surprised if he got 4 years/$90-100 million. He needs one more starter, maybe Buehler for a 1 year prove it deal for $25 million, and then he’ll also have Megill, Blackburn and Butto as depth options. There’s definitely a risk with this strategy, but if it works out the results could be similar to this year’s.
holecamels35
Agreed. You want to get the guys on the rebound with something to prove, ideally not sign them after they proved themselves and are looking for twice the money.. Their approach is smart. Last time they paid out the nose for “premium” starters, it didn’t work.
larkraxm
Do the Mets know that Juan Soto has seen Holmes pitch???
gbs42
Soto told the Mets he’d only sign with them if he could continue to be teammates with Holmes.
I heard that from a friend of Soto’s cousin.
larkraxm
Yeah! Soto loves him some blown saves.
Reyday
Thank god we got one of the best closers out there with Diaz so we won’t have to worry about that!
Lindor's Bodyguard
Soto is bros with Jose Siri too.
Ranger Danger19
He’s no John Holmes. Good luck Metropolitans
Lindor's Bodyguard
Are you sure?
Dodger Dog
If the Mets signed Burnes and Fried would they still have the third best rotation in their division?
Attystephenadams
They don’t need to have the best rotation in the division to play the Dodgers in the league championship series. Go ask the Phillies what the best rotation did for them last year.
Dodger Dog
Banking on 3rd WC is a bold strategy
holecamels35
I mean, that’s a pretty cheap contract for a starting pitcher, but will he work and give you innings, or will he get injured/shut down or be ineffective? No one needs a starter who can’t go 5 innings, just taxes your rotation and makes you rotate in and out too much junk on the roster.
RBFSL
Clay Holmes began to excel when he started throwing the Roger Beshens Football Slider.
slider32
Holmes throws a 95 sinking fastball with a good slider, he might have some success as a starter in a bigger park. It’s a wait and see for me!
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, but if he starts off with a walk, make it a BP game. He probably won’t find the plate that day.
larkraxm
You got it, Clip! It isn’t that he gives up a lot of hard contact, but he doesn’t challenge hitters and gets himself into trouble with walks and HBP. Usually the number 8 or 9 hitters.
slider32
Clipper your right on the money, his control even in the zone is his biggest problem. The starter mentality is not the same as a closer. He didn’t have the right make up for that role!
jimmyz
@slider32 and @Yankee Clipper…this is exactly what I scrolled through comments to find. I’m a Pirates fan and Holmes came up in the minors in the Bucs system alongside Jameson Taillon and Tyler Glasnow just behind Gerrit Cole as the future rotation for the Bucs from 2012-2015. In my opinion Holmes always had the potential to be a successful if inconsistent mid-rotation starter. His biggest issue was control/walks. If he could limit walks or limit the damage from them he was just fine. But sometimes 3 run bombs happen when you gift two baserunners. I never had an issue with the Bucs prioritizing holding onto Cole and Taillon over Holmes and I thought the Yankees were wise to immediately put him in the bullpen since swing and miss stuff and movement on his pitches were always evident. I also don’t think it’s a bad gamble for the Mets to put him back as a starter. He might get shelled every now and then but he’s going to give you a good chance to win more often than not.
mets1977
The Mets are filling out the rotation with lower priced pitchers. I think if they miss out on Soto, this is the year they reset the luxury tax(have to do it sometime—-can’t be in the prospect penalty forever). They were about 80m to the threshold before these 2 signings they probably still have $45m to threshold to build a bullpen and at least 1 hitter.
VonPurpleHayes
Nah. I think they’re going big even if they miss Soto. This is their year to splurge.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Santander as OF, 10% DH would help the NYM.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he is asking for 7 years.
I would go 5 years and a guaranteed option for year 6 with a buyout and a limited No Trade Clause. Front loaded with a signing bonus
AAV 14M? so 5 years = 70M plus signing bonus $10?
His SO’s are lower than Teo, Defensively just average.
Some team could probably offer more
JackStrawb
@mets1977 After the Holmes signing, Roster Resource has the Mets payroll for LT purposes at $201.6m, leaving them around $39.3m to spend if they’re getting under.
You have to remember to add player benefits and misc dollars the MLBPA includes in the LT calculation.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Reading between the Lines what this tells me is Stearns is hearing outrageous asking prices for Burnes, Fried, Eovaldi, Manaea, Flaherty and others Total $ and the length of the contract. He does NOT see it as a Good Risk reward investment with too much downside. in the names mentioned.
Pitchers with flexibility can be more valuable IF used correctly by the manager. I doubt he has the success that Seth Lugo has had but with a strong bullpen Holmes can be a big help
NYM has concerns about health and how deep they can go in terms of IP in the game and also youthful growing pains. This also tells me Stearns believes 1 or 2 AAA SPs will progress enough to throw meaningful innings maybe as early as Spring Training or by Memorial Day.
Senga (2024 injury), Peterson, Montas, Butto (as SP maybe)
Still in the mix IF not traded Blackburn, Megill (BP swingman?)
I know this starting staff isn’t going to scare a lot of Batting orders as currently constructed BUT I believe NYM will sign (or trade for) 1 Co-Ace type starter
>>> The Winter Meetings haven’t officially started BUT I bet there are many Early Birds checking into their hotel in Dallas tonight
2 hour time difference from ET so you may wake up to a BIG Trade or FA signing
mlbnyyfan
Holmes gone. Great. Next Torres, DJL and Stanton
JackStrawb
There’s no reason to think any Mets minor league starter is going to be ready after just ST. For a team that emphasized building a steadily producing minor league system, they had no one at the upper levels who had a good, solid year and who is an obvious candidate for a starting job.
That’s serious failure.
KnicksFanCavsFan
So spend $700 mil for a Maybach and put regular unleaded in the gas tank and ride on patched up and used tires hoping they get you thru 162 games? Bad signal to send to Soto and Boras. You’re showing a team going for a wild card not being ahead of Phillies or Braves.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Holmes, Montas, Severino, and Bader.
Gleyber is next.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
He’s going to Sesame Street I heard on Tik Tok
Lindor's Bodyguard
As long as it’s not Anthony Rizzo.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
Well Dollar Tree Davy, you really did it. You blew right past my expectations. Good job. This is probably the worst move that I have ever seen from this franchise in my entire life. Your job was to build a sustainable World Series contender. So far, he has overpaid for a 5th and 7th starter/garbage time reliever. Sleepy Stearns thinks he is smarter than everyone, and that right there lies the problem. When the Mets finish at 79-83, it will be a surprise to everyone but me. Delusional fans ruin this base. This move is a slap in the face of any serious Mets fan
Lindor's Bodyguard
That’s deep dude.
VonPurpleHayes
So it’s tough to say he overpaid anyone. The pitching market may be insane this year. These may be moves to add arms on the cheap before things get crazy.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@VonPurpleHayes the Mets are one of the main culprits of why these salaries are so high to begin with. When you give 17 million to Montas, other pitchers will compare what he got to what they themsevles should have. Montas isn’t good, and this is why Severino got almost 70 mil
Reyday
You are one hell of an annoying troll. Everything you say is just whiny lil girl dramatics. I’m sure you said the same thing about last year’s pickup of Severino and Manaea. Senga alone replaces one of those guys, plus I’m sure we’ll get at least 1 more starter to add to Peterson, Senga, and Montas.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@Reyday Incorrect, I was a fan of the Manaea signing. You can look back at the article of when the Mets signed him last year
Lindor's Bodyguard
#MutedForBeingAmlbtrTroll
NYMets4Life
Didn’t you also say they’d be a 79 win team last year?
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@NYMets4Life I said the Mets would win 76 games last year. My sole reason was that I believed Stearns did not do a good job with the bullpen. They didn’t start getting hot till they traded for major league relievers at the deadline so my opinion was justified
Reyday
They got hot starting June 1st so that’s a good 2 months before the deadline ? And the following month after the deadline in August they went 15-13 compared to 16-8 in June, and 17-10 in July.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Seek professional intervention. You are well past help from a single professional. Get an entire team of mental health professionals.
jvent
OMG, WHYYY. We could’ve signed Bieber for that or for a lil more Buehler, dumb moves so far, they better get Soto, resign Alonso and Manaea next
larkraxm
Soto is a Yankee. He will thank the Mets for getting the Yankees to their highest offer.
JackStrawb
So your team building exercise involves compounding what you see as the Holmes error with overpaying Alonso, who will struggle to put up 3 more productive years before he retires? Interesting…
Reyday
So you wanted 3-4 months of Bieber for 14-15MM coming off TJ? Interesting, the fact is Bieber had bigger offers it was reported but chose to stay with the guardians.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Bieber clearly wants to stay with Cleveland. I am sorry this is hard for you.
mad1
Huge overpay
PiazzaParty
Is there one guy who makes this comment on every signing? Regardless of the actual deal?
Mynameisnoname
Jose Soriano thought process here. Hard, heavy sinkers with some OK supporting pitches.
The only issue I envision is some days Holme’s sinker is just moving too much and he can run up a pitch count or fill up the bases accordingly.
As a SP, you can’t just lift him with 2 on, 1 out and a run in on those off days.
The Mets will undoubtedly add more SP, but if Clay can learn to stay in the zone consistently, there is a non zero chance of the conversion being more valuable than his known above average RP contributions.
unglar
Im a yankees fan and I think Clay got a bad rep as he seemed miscast as a lockdown closer. His results have been fairly strong in the pen, but I will be shocked if it works out for him in the rotation. He just allows too much contact that it finds holes over time. Even his saves were often nerve-racking. But he was great as a high end middle reliever and this contract will be fine with that as the floor if starting doesnt work. Stearns is smarter than your average bear, I’d trust him to gamble on moves like this if cash is really not a factor to team construction.
But HAL and Cash? They have to sign Soto or sell the team to someone who will. The Yankees need him. And more. But start with him.
Shawn W.
While Holmes has a great sinker, he doesn’t have 3+ pitches to face a hitter a second or third time.
rocky7
Maybe so, but that’s what pitching coaches are for aren’t they….sure that he can tinker with a 3rd pitch in Spring training.
JackStrawb
He’s not going to be facing many hitters for the third time in a game.
energel
I think….good
icantstandyous
Not Stearns really thinks he is a genius. This is going to end badly. Sad they are building a rotation based on bargain instead of talent. Wilpons snap back
IsIt2025Already?
LOLMets
10centBeerNight
Would not be surprised if Stearns next significant move is a trade
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
@10cenrBeerNight Didn’t you see earlier in the day? They already made their significant offseason trade. They got Sean Haffry or whatever his name is. Thats the Sleepy Stearns way
SadMsFan
Well, I guess they’re not signing Corbin Burnes…or any other starter on the market.
lol Mets
Rsox
At this point Patrick Corbin might be an upgrade…
Lindor's Bodyguard
Mariners have $15 million to spend winter and a front office that is NOT committed to winning. lol Mariners.
Rsox
Senga
Montas
Peterson
Megill
Holmes
If the season started today that’s the Mets rotation. On paper it looks like Kodai Senga and pray for rain…
VonPurpleHayes
I think Holmes would be the #2 and Montas the #4, but none of that matters. Mets will have another starter before all is said and done.
IsIt2025Already?
Holmes arm has never built up to SP work in MLB. This is a silly take. He’s a swing guy until they get him built up at best.
Ragnarok
Peterson and Megill were both good last year & there’s Brandon Sproat sitting in AAA. I think they’ll get one more front end guy and call it.
andyger63
Buh bye Clay and your 13 blown saves this season.
DerekBellsMoistMoustache
Lol Mets
SewaldSwansonSwoon
El Oh El
He ain’t a starter
LordD99
Mets love them their Yankees.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
The LAD have had a recent habit of finding 1 SP/RP via trade OR Free agency and getting improved results (vs previous years) and then discarding them soon after like
Tyler Anderson
Jack Flaherty
James Paxton
Lance Lynn
Shelby Miller
Ryan Yarbrough
Andrew Heaney
Joe Kelly
Some didn’t quite work out
Thor
A Player Who Shall Not be Named
Hmm Interesting.
Pitching Labs? TB has worked similar Magic or Alchemy
Dodger Fans didn’t seem to mind. 2 WS Rings.
YanksPhan42
They’re gambling they can steal a cheap starter….and if he flops in that role, they’ll put him in the pen.
websoulsurfer
Can’t wait to see what Stearn’s pitching lab can do for him.
dasit
hate to admit it but the cohen/stearns combo worries me. mets might be running the city in a few years (although i thought that in 2015 so who knows?)
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Now clay can buy some razors for that uni brow.
Lindor's Bodyguard
Tweezers.
Stan Not the Man
Realistically how many innings can he pitch his first year?
BCleveland3381
Reynaldo Lopez for the Braves was converted to a starter from reliever last year and threw 135 innings.
Seth Lugo was signed by the padres from the Mets a couple years ago and converted to a starter and threw 140 innings in 26 starts. Year two with the royals he threw over 200 innings and was second in the AL Cy Young voting.
TheGr8One
Pulled a kikuchi and got paid off his back half and not his body of work. Well done young man.
whyhayzee
For comparison purposes let’s look at the American League champion Yankees for some guidance. Gil with his 33 major league innings and a full season missed, tossed 150 innings. Rodon pitched 175 innings, 3 innings short of his career high after tossing 64 innings the year before. Cortes pitched his career high of 174 innings after tossing 63 innings the year before. Clarke Schmidt threw 159 innings in 2023 after 57 innings the year before, then followed that with a partial season of 85 innings. So, maxing out on innings is not that big of a deal? We will find out when these guys pitch in 2025.
Holmes has pitched 63 innings in each of the last three years, a pretty steady load. So he is used to pitching in 60+ games per season. That will be cut in half at least if he starts. I imagine that he will go 4-5 innings early in the season and get stretched out as the season goes forward.
It seems reasonable to expect 120-150 innings.
teddyballgame
Soto is signing with the Red Sox!
28rings
I think it might actually work out for Mets. Ground ball pitcher in a pitcher’s park with elite infield defense. Cohen has unlimited funds & he’s only getting $13 million a year (Severino signed with A’s for almost twice that) best case scenario, he’s another Michael King, worst case scenario if it doesn’t work out (or if they sign Fried, Sasaki or Burnes) he’s back in bullpen as a high priced set up man for Edwin Diaz (he was great setting up Chapman & Weaver). He also was drafted by Pirates as a starter & started 114 of his 134 minor league games with them, and learned a lot from Matt Blake & Corey Kluber since then. I’m just concerned that he’s only thrown 63 innings each of last 3 years & hasn’t thrown more than 70 since 2018.
slider32
Stearns is usually right on these things, he has a good record with pitchers! You have to think Holmes feels good with Mendoza and pitching in NY.
Salzilla
Wasn’t home last night to comment, but this is hysterical. If you thought what I said about the Montas signing was controversial. Times this by 20x because wow. This plan is worse than past season’s so far. That Pitching Lab is breaking in one season.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Man, it’s crazy when you see Cohen make a move that looks like a Marlins cost-cutting move. The Mets sign Clay Holmes to be a starting pitcher, people are praising how it will work. Had the Marlins done this same move, every one of the same people would be talking about how the Marlins are cheap and doing typical Marlins low-budget moves that are the reason they suck.
Interesting.
unglar
Totally true. No one is objective, they all just care what happened last season and what their FO did last year.
That said, Yankees better get Soto.
Captainmike1
These opt outs are a bunch of BS
How about the team can dump the player if he sucks
JackStrawb
How about fans can dump an owner if he sucks?
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
I really like the upside of this signing. When he tires out mid year, he can be swapped to the pen for Megill or Butto for a few weeks.
On paper, the starting 5 will look unremarkable for the bandwagoners, but in reality should be very steady and effective.
oneiblnd
When he’s on he’s on. When he’s off he’s terrible.
johncoltrane
as a RP he is elite
as a SP i have no idea what to expect
ctguy
As a reliever last season he led the league in blown saves. Not exactly considered elite
chemfinancing
I’ll be begging for him in fantasy drafts pure Seth Lugo esq
alproof
Give Sproat & Tidwell every chance. I tired of looking at Megill, Peterson, Butto.
Brad Scott
The Mets’ top priorities are keeping Alonso & Bader, and adding better & deeper pitching.
So naturally they unflinchingly spend three-quarters of a billion dollars signing Soto (an admittedly exceptional hitter with decidedly below-average defense), and replace the departed Severino (one mediocre pitcher) with Holmes & Montas (two mediocre pitchers).
Note to Mets fans: Most of you are probably glad to have Soto on your team (and perhaps equally pleased over the Yankees’ failed bid to keep him) … but you might want to consider waiting a bit on purchasing those WS tickets.
Adding a great hitter (or even a brilliant all-around player) to an otherwise “not-quite-ready-for-prime-time” team isn’t exactly a proven recipe for success (see Mariners & Griffey, Phillies & Harper, Angels & Trout/Ohtani, Padres & Machado, Yankees & Judge/Stanton, et al).
As with any team, the Mets have to effectively and intelligently address their more-pressing needs if they’re serious about making a successful run at the title. (And preferably at a substantially lower cost than a Musk Mars mission.)