The Mariners are known to be looking for infield upgrades this offseason and have been exploring the trade market as part of that pursuit. Adam Jude of the Seattle Times reports that the club has had some trade discussions with the Phillies about Alec Bohm and with the Cubs about Nico Hoerner.
The Seattle infield is likely to be significantly different in 2025 than it was in 2024. Ty France was traded to the Reds last year. Justin Turner became a free agent at season’s end. The Mariners also turned down a club option on Jorge Polanco and non-tendered Josh Rojas. That leaves them J.P. Crawford at short at question marks elsewhere. Recent reporting has suggested they may be comfortable with Dylan Moore and Ryan Bliss covering second base until prospect Cole Young is ready, but even in that case, the corners would need to be addressed. Luke Raley is an option at first base but he could also be in the corner outfield mix and would likely need to be platooned anyway, since the lefty swinger is far better against righties.
Despite the need, the M’s were never likely to be huge players in free agency. As shown in MLBTR’s Contract Tracker, Seattle has never given a free agent position player more than the $24MM they gave to Mitch Garver in the era with Jerry Dipoto leading the front office. Furthermore, while the club is planning for a payroll bump relative to last year, it’s expected to be fairly modest. RosterResource projects the club to already have a fairly similar spending outlay next year as they did in 2024, so it doesn’t appear a major splash on someone like Alex Bregman or Willy Adames is likely.
All those factors, as well as Dipoto’s “Trader Jerry” reputation for being aggressive on the trade market, have pointed that to being the likely path forward. As such, the talks about Bohm and Hoerner are fairly logical developments, though a trade actually coming together may not be likely with either.
The Phillies are looking to shake up their roster and Bohm is one of the logical trade candidates they have. Many of their position players are veterans who are fairly cemented in place, either due to their key contributions, their contracts or both. Bohm, on the other hand, is a solid but not elite player who is controlled via the arbitration system through 2026.
Bohm is coming off a 2024 season in which he hit .280/.332/.448 for a wRC+ of 115, his best offensive performance in a full season thus far in his career. However, he did so in lopsided fashion, hitting .295/.348/.482 in the first half for a 128 wRC+ and .251/.299/.382 in the second half for a 90 wRC+. He’s also been a bit better against lefties in his career, which continued in 2024. He hit .287/.335/.473 with the platoon advantage for a 123 wRC+ while slashing .276/.330/.437 against righties for a 111 wRC+.
Defensively, Bohm has been a bit of a mixed bag. Metrics like Defensive Runs Saved and Outs Above Average have both considered him to be subpar at third base in his career but closer to league average this year. He can also play some first base as well, meaning he provides a bit of versatility.
Bohm is undoubtedly a useful player and would surely appeal to the Mariners, given their desire to reduce their strikeout problems. His 17.9% career strikeout rate is a few ticks below average and he’s been ever lower than that in the past three seasons, getting to 14.2% in 2024.
Still, despite Bohm’s utility, it seems the Phils are setting a high asking price for his services. Per Jude’s report, the Phillies asked for either Logan Gilbert or George Kirby in return, which is surely why a deal hasn’t happened yet. Back in September, Dipoto said that dealing from the rotation was “Plan Z” for this winter. And even if Seattle was trying to move a starter, Bohm for Gilbert or Kirby wouldn’t be a good alignment in terms of trade value.
Bohm has two remaining years of arbitration control left and is projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for a salary of $8.1MM. Gilbert is projected for the same salary in 2025 but can be controlled for three more seasons compared to Bohm’s two. Gilbert has also been the far more valuable player in his career, having tossed 704 1/3 innings with a 3.60 earned run average. FanGraphs considers him to have been worth 12.4 wins above replacement over his four big league seasons while putting Bohm at 7.7 fWAR in his five campaigns. Kirby has four seasons of club control remaining and is projected for a modest $5.5MM salary next year. He’s also racked up 11.4 fWAR already in just three seasons by tossing over 500 innings with a 3.43 ERA.
Perhaps Phillies president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski was just staking out an extreme position for the start of discussions and will bridge the gap later in the offseason, but if that’s any indication of how the Phillies genuinely view Bohm’s value, it may be tough to line up on a deal. MLBTR’s Steve Adams took a look at some of the other potential landing spots for Bohm yesterday.
For the Cubs, Hoerner also makes sense as a trade candidate for a few reasons. That club has a crowded position player mix but there are difficulties in trading many of them. Dansby Swanson, Seiya Suzuki and Ian Happ have full no-trade clauses. Cody Bellinger’s opt-out makes it difficult to line up with another club, given the potential downside for the acquiring team. Michael Busch and Pete Crow-Armstrong just took steps forward in 2024 and are still affordable and controllable. Isaac Paredes was just acquired from the Rays a few months ago and his trade value likely dropped a bit since he struggled after that swap.
Hoerner, on the other hand, might be more useful to another club. He came up as a shortstop but has been moved to second base in deference to Swanson. The defensive metrics have liked his work at the keystone but some other team might consider him a viable shortstop if given the chance. Offensively, he’s been just a bit above average in his career, hitting .278/.338/.381 for a 102 wRC+. He’s also stolen at least 20 bases in each of the past three years. He will make $11.5MM in 2025 and $12MM in 2026 as part of the extension he signed last year.
Going into the winter, there was an argument for the Cubs to trade Hoerner for pitching, thus opening up second base for a prospect such as Matt Shaw or James Triantos. However, Hoerner underwent flexor tendon surgery in October, which complicates the possibility of a trade coming together somewhat. His recovery timeline is still uncertain, which will make it hard for the Cubs and another club to line up on a valuation.
His primary position being second base is also imperfect, given that the M’s appear to prefer to add at the corners. Hoerner does have some third base experience but just 41 1/3 innings in the majors. He does have a contact-based approach, with a career strikeout rate of just 12%, which would line up well with Seattle’s plans to improve in that department.
Per Jude, the Cubs are seeking “proven major league talent”, but the Mariners seem to be more interested in dealing from their farm system. Jude notes that the club has eight prospect on Baseball America’s Top 100 list (Colt Emerson, Lazaro Montes, Young, Jonny Farmelo, Harry Ford, Logan Evans, Michael Arroyo, Felnin Celesten) and could use that stockpile of talent to upgrade the major league roster. Given the club’s aforementioned budgetary constraints, penchant for swinging deals and stated desire to keep their big league rotation intact, trading from that group seems more likely than giving up someone like Gilbert or Kirby.
Though they won’t be huge players in free agency, Jude adds that the club remains in contact with Turner and old friend Carlos Santana, which is a connection that has been made in previous reports. Turner is now 40 and Santana will be 39 in April, so both will be limited to one-year deals with fairly modest salaries.
Asking Kirby or Gilbert for Bohm is an all time absurd ask
Bohm probably wouldn’t hit well in Seattle anyway. He has no pop in Philly, what will that look like in cavernous T-Mobile Park?
T-Mobile is not “cavernous.” After the fences were moved in prior to the 2014 season it has one of the smaller outfield areas in MLB, which is why it plays close to average for home runs but much lower for doubles/triples.
T-Mobile ranked at or near the bottom in every park factor category in 2024, except strikeouts.
Hitters that rely on the left-center gap really tend to struggle at T-Mobile. Bohm tends to use the lines. more.
Bohm is the bad answer to almost any question.
Absolutely absurd. Bohm isn’t as special as the Phillies think he is.
We don’t want this guy he’s our weak link and we want to get better. Would you trade us an Ace for him? How can the Phillies make such an offer, that’s terrible
The Phillies didn’t make an offer. That’s the entire point. The Mariners asked about Bohm. The Phillies answered.
And these are crumbs of the story. I imagine the Phillies were trying to pair Suarez with Bohm in these talks given the fact his name has come up this offseason as a trade candidate as well. Bohm and Suarez and a near ready prospect like Mick Abel to give the mariners rotation more depth doesn’t sound as stupid as “Bohm for Kirby”.
No where does it say that the Mariners made an offer. It just says that there were trade talks. The Phillies are known to be shopping Bohm. More than one writer has talked about it. 4 so far. Seems like trade talks went as far as, “what do you want due Bohm?”, then after Dombrowski answered, “that is out of the question, bye”.
@Bryc3 Harp3r, no offense but that still sounds like a bad deal for the Ms. This trade has to absolutely gut your franchise just like it would ours. we’re talking top prospect(s) and MLB players. pitchers like Gilbert and Korby with their controllable years don’t just get traded like that. Closest thing would be Chris Archer trade and even that would be shadowed by the return for Kirby or Gilbert.
Yes, it does. The only thing you trade a young, high-end rotation arm for is an equally talented young, high-end bat. Bulk just doesn’t get it done unless the front office is terrible or is blowing it up for a rebuild which the Mariners aren’t doing.
No one made an offer. Both teams asked about players.
Phillies just hoping they can find SOMEONE on whom they can dump Bohm.
Not really. The high asking price should tell you they value Bohm. Pete has an incorrect view.
The mariners asked about him after the Phillies made it known he was available and told the league to ask about him lol
Being available for trade talks is very different from saying “we want to trade this guy.” Too many fans and reporters buy into gossip. Last season at this time the talk was the Phils wanted to trade Castellanos. They kept him. The Phillies aren’t trading Bohm unless they get value for him. They’d be fine running it back with him. This isn’t a situation where they are looking to dump someone desperately.
That’s an interesting trade, Suarez, Abel and Bohm for Kirby – hate to say it but what is the probability of Kirby spending a season on the sidelines? You hope not but it’s probably.
A trade for a starting third baseman and a starter to replace Kirby in the rotation is something to consider. Add a prospect like Abel and If have to say the Phillies would be getting close to a deal.
I don’t know though, I revisited some George Kirby film on the YouTube, same impression I got first time I saw him pitch, blown away by the life on his fastball, some kind of movement he gets on his pitches.
Watched Mick Abel, he has a similar delivery out of the stretch, he sits 95 with the fastball, but it’s night and day to me. Kirby is electric and Abel is pedestrian.
I think that’s an overpay considering Suarez’s postseason success and age.
I was thinking the same thing but after watching the highlights I’d make that trade tomorrow morning, and I like Bohm, think he is a better option than Bregman and Arenado at third considering his age and his contract.
You must be a Phillies fan. This is a terrible trade. Ms would get a pitcher with 1 yr of club control who can’t throw more than 150 innings, a league average 3rd baseman, and a mid tier pitching prospect for a innings eater who finishes top 10 cy young every year with 4 years of club control. Pass me that pipe buddy.
Pete’s view in incompete at best
Has everyone noticed the proliferation of “trade rumors” that, if you are interested in baseball at all, now crop up on your newsfeed? Fansided, Bleacher Report and the various bloggers – they all seem to be written by 14 year olds and / or mental midgets. It is incredibly irritating to see once reputable outlets such as Sports Illustrated that are pasting their branding on this nonsense because it is far cheaper to produce, while actual old school sports journalism has fallen by the wayside.
It used to be a minor annoyance – now this garbage is 95% of what pops up posing as baseball news. The stuff is about on par with the trade debates that pop up in the comments section. I am slowly figuring out how to block all of that crap.
This goes hand in hand with the vast array of morons and conspiracy theorists that get their “news” from Facebook, Instagram, Tik-tok and the echo chamber of the alt-right. The death of journalism.
AI has made it significantly worse. I’ve seen the same AI-written article for multiple teams randomly swapping out players names. These fake articles get picked up by aggregate sites and spread like wildfire to the point that fans think there’s real fire behind the smoke, not realizing the entire thing was made up by AI.
Mlbtraderumors is an aggregate site, taking stories from other sources, but why it’s so great is that they don’t post these stories unless it was posted by a semi-reliable source first.
I agree, I have stopped reading 95% of them, like the news to be news but have found myself putting together the trades too, in part due to all of those articles, I had been reading them. It gets confusing in some way because they are mostly unsubstantiated rumors that are invented merely as clickbait.
Agreed – AI has rapidly taken hold and has recently become a much bigger component, and now they don’t even need to pretend anymore.that the teenagers are staff writers. First they fired the real writers…now they can downsize the pretend writers. And far too many folks are not educated enough anymore to even grasp the difference.
As much as I love baseball, the tragedy is hardly all that important in this venue – irritating for sure, and a lack of authenticity will always come at a cost. But in the real world, where facts and truth and perspective are at ever greater risk (hence the election of that piece of garbage and his minions in November) the consequences of the failure of real journalism are far reaching and extraordinarily concerning.
Absolutely noticed this. SI purged their team of reputable journalists and replaced them with amateurs. Sporting New must have done the same. Then there are the dozens of podcasters playing journalists in a desperate attempt for attention.
It’s especially bad in the world of Mariners baseball. I’ve been doing a humble blog for nearly a decade, that was kind of a spillover from Shannon Drayer’s blog (that no longer has a comment section). I’ve found myself spending most of my time rubuting the idiocy we’ve been plagued with over the last year+.
Anyway, you’re not alone. Couldn’t agree more with everything you said.
Not if Bohm is just a co-headliner in the package. Kirby is one of the most valuable trade pieces in the league. Just because Bohm and Kirby/Gilbert are mentioned doesn’t mean that was like everything involved here.
It’d make a ton of sense for Seattle to sell Kirby now and get a haul back. Still carrying an elite rotation in the process.
You must be smoking mushu zaza… the conversation for Gilbert, much less Kirby, would start with Aidan Miller and Justin Crawford. If Bohm was a sweetener after those two, sure.
No one is giving you Miller and Crawford for either starter, much less throwing in Bohm. I certainly agree that Bohm is not nearly enough for your key pitchers, but let’s not go crazy in the other direction.
Trades are incredibly difficult to make happen and chances are that Bohm will not fetch enough to make DD pull the trigger. But he certainly is worth more than what MLBTR proposes (one year of a back of the pen relief pitcher).
Start with Miller and Crawford, with Bohm a ‘sweetener’???? Lol. Hilarious.
Put that one back in your garbagebag.
What do you think Kirby/Gilbert is worth dude?? The last time a pitcher like them was traded was when Luis Castillo was traded from the Reds which included Noelvi Marte at the time, who was the the 11th ranked prospect in all of baseball. The years of cheap control on Kirby would get him a pretty hefty haul. I agree that these trades don’t usually happen, unless it involves Preller or Dipoto lmao.
Crawford and Bohm was probably discussed. Miller unlikely.
Hilarious. Gilbert and (especially) Kirby are among the most valuable assets in baseball. Woo is not far off. Miller and Crawford as a package gets blown away by any number of teams if either of the first two get marketed. Woo for those two is OK.
Yeah and Castillo was already expensive at the time.
Bohm and Abel is a pretty good offer throw in a year of Suarez and your likely there. I watched more film on Mick Abel, he has some good stuff too, looks to have added some zip to his fastball and his breaker, he is a pitcher very much in the mold of George Kirby, which makes it an interesting trade.
bwmiller, not really. Abel walked 79 batters in 108 minor league innings last year. Kirby has walked 64 in 511 career MLB innings.
That is a striking point mate, one that has me reconsidering but I watched more tape on Abel, his fastball is ticking up to 97, and he has a nice breaker, very similar arsenal to Kirby. Kirby has electric stuff and the walk stats are conclusive, they are not on the same level, but Abel has potential. Those walks do marr his prospects though.
Two things: The Phillies do not need to trade Bohm, so may as well aim ridiculously high. Secondly, I’m sure they were asking about what prospects would need to be attached for them.
Bohm would never be dealt straight up for a young starter.
At this point they do have to trade him. He was already disgruntled and know he has been offered around the league. He is an emotional player and the Phillies have made it very clear they don’t want him.
metsin4 All due respect, but you tend to believe in gossip over facts. This is nonsense.
Yes it’s all gossip. The Phillies actively trading him has been gossip. Multiple Phillies sources saying he’s immature and they don’t want to deal with him anymore is nonsense. Him previously stating “ I f***ing hate this place” is gossip. Phillies fans constantly booing him is nonsense. Not every player and place is a match. He isn’t a match for Philly.
Flawed logic. Leaks about antics devalue a player. The Phillies wouldn’t want to devalue a trade chip. The source of those rumors? AK Pierzynski. Lol. A known crap stirrer. Do not believe in nonsense. Especially around winter meeting time. It’s pure fiction.
AJ not AK.
Metsin4, who said that the Phillies are shopping him? They’re taking calls, no doubt, but that’s not the same thing.
I’ve fallen victim to hypothetical trade rumors, how about Crochet and Robert for Stott, Bohm and Mick Abel. Phillies sign Arenado at 3rd, Gleybar Torres to play 2nd. They add Crochet to the rotation and get a big time CF. Luis Robert is a big time talent. Phillies would have to layout the cash for Arenado and Torres but Crochet and Robert are good contracts and that team looks a lot better on paper than the current roster. Seems feasible.
They’re not moving Stott. Simply because he’s young and cheap. This is a good package though.
Von, you are right about that. To get a top young starter the Phillies would have to include 2 top 100 prospects along with Bohm.
Of in the Yanks I would dangle Clarke Schmidt and a lesser prospect, unless we can grow the deal for additional players. Schmidt was coming into his own before hitting the DL. He pitched or well the whole season and he had 3 years of control. I like him and would rather not deal him but Cole, Rondon and Gil agent going anywhere. Cortez only has one year of control and Stroman isn’t going to get it done. But I think Schmidt can be a slim l solid sub 4 ERA guy.
Nice leak by DiPoto to be able to later say sorry we had to trade Woo for Bohm but at least we kept Kirby and Gilbert.
Kirby and Gilbert should be untouchable! Bohm’s bat is mediocre at the third base position and with the lack of carry in night games he will struggle to hit more than 12 homers a season!
The mariners,a pretender are coming to a perennial contender asking about their starting third baseman It’s absolutely absurd to think the Phillies would be interested unless the lowly mariners offer something that improves the Phillies.
Bregman has priced himself out of reach so there’s no replacement for Bohm in sight. Seattle can hold on to its pitching and finish with 85 wins and a 2nd/3rd place finish once again.
Dombrowski is just posturing for the press. Or he’s trying to get a better deal than anyone (including the M’s) is offering. It’s not a serious offer.
Or it is just made up by Dipoto. Why do you blame Dombrowski? Dipoto is much more a leaker than Dombrowski.
Could well be. Dipoto has a history of saying, “Hey, we tried,” when no deal happens at all.
Yeah wouldn’t be surprised if it’s used as an excuse to not raise payroll
I’m preparing for the 2nd base platoon and a random scrap heap 3rd baseman
It’s not an offer at all; it’s a random demand.
Zippy the Pinhead;
Have you considered that this rumor is BS?
The last 20 years has shown that most of what is reported during
the offseason is.
Trading for Bellinger and Hoerner would make a lot of sense for the Yankees.
Bellinger probably has negative value because of his player option/opt out after next year. Guys with player options or opt outs coming up soon are very hard to value, because if they play well they opt out. You only get to keep him if he plays poorly or gets hurt. So you have to consider him a one year get, with a potentially large black hole the following season. And Hoerner has a bum arm and might not be ready to start 2025. He also has very limited power and the Yanks have Jazz at 2B. The return for both would be small, if you could find a partner.
Interesting way to present a 4 war player in Hoerner. He has a ton of value especially considering the surplus value he provides with his reasonable contract.
Absolutely. And he doesn’t have a “bum arm” because he had surgery.
thats like saying anyone who has ever had surgery on their arm has bum arms. so many examples that disprove that
That value is mostly from defense, which is exactly where the surgery question marks hit hardest. If he were healthy, yeah, you could pull something for those two. He’s about a league average hitter and is 28 next year, so unlikely to get better. And he’s not cheap.
Bellinger would certainly improve both sides of the ball for the Yanks if they plan on him at 1B. Whether he’s worth what he’s getting paid is another issue altogether for the FO to figure out.
Hoerner would be an interesting player to position in the lineup because of his hitting style. It may complement the lineup very well.
It’s a matter of which players would be given up to get him.
All of them. The Yankees farm system sucks.
Yikes! Neither of these guys are very good…
Hella better than what the M’s have out there now.
Central Valley CA in the comments.
I like Hoerner, but I think Matt Shaw offers more upside. Now would be a good time to try to turn him into some pitching.
2B Hoerner
LF Soto
RF Judge
1B Bellinger
DH Stanton
3B Jazz
SS Volpe
C Wells
CF Jasson
How funny. You think Soto is going to resign with the Bankee$
That’s basically the same as this year.
If the Yanks re-sign Soto than they are probably going to nickel and dime First Base with either a platoon of LeMahieu and Rice or a lower tier option
Bellinger and Stanton would have problems
Why?
Torres far better than Hoerner in my opinion. Unsure why the Yanks so eager to move on from him.
Free agent and probably looking for a long-term big money deal. If the Yanks were interested in giving him that they would have done it years ago
Depends on whether or not you want to upgrade your defense.
Hoerner’s underrated. Great D, elite bat-to-ball skills, and very fast. He’s not going to pop many HRs, but he’s very solid everywhere else.
Very fat? Great D……? Not sure what this has to do with how he’s underrated as a baseball player.
20 SBs a year says he’s fast.
All the ladies love some great D
Which is exactly why I don’t want the Cubs to trade him…but their options are limited because of all the stupid no trade clauses Jed Hoyer has gifted people.
Please trade Bohm so we can stop seeing historically stupid trade propositions like Ryan Helsley & Nolan Arenado for Bohm.
I agree the Phils would never do that.
It might be easier to demand posters stop posting historically stupid trade propositions like Ryan Helsley & Nolan Arenado for Bohm.
Until this team is sold no one should expect anything but business as usual for this team. Rumors about Seattle signing or trading for proven/well paid players are complete and utter nonsense.
Dial-a-Cliche
Kurt
I agree totally. What would you Seattle fans think about Jodie Allen buying the Ms? She has hired good people and stayed out of the way of running the Hawks. She made the tough decision to let Pete go even though they were good friends. Has let them spend money to build a winner. Hopefully they can fill the holes in the next couple years to be back as a favorite to win the SB. She could do the same with the Ms. Find out what these posers want for the team and give it to them. Get the team in the hands of an owner who wants to win for the fans of the team.
I thought she was intending to sell the team in the next couple years. Maybe once we have our next franchise QB in the system and ready to roll. (Not sure about her ownership style – Seahawks have been very mid to meh the last half dozen years and I heard her Portland Trail Blazers are a mess).
In the will she was supposed to sell it by now. There was a clause she could keep it for longer. Not sure what it was. The meh has been the coaching and QB play. Smith is not a QB1. I know there are some good stats but do want to sign him for multiple years at top QB pay?
I have no idea about the Blazers. Do not follow the joke of NBA. Partially because of what happened to the Sonics well mostly. Also the joke of traveling and fouls called for/against the superstars.
I have not heard anything but good about how Miss Allen has run the team. They are in a down cycle but rising with a new coach. They desperately need a new QB. Another example is a few weeks ago when things went everything went south he was pouting throwing stuff yelling and plain acting like you never want your QB to act. Since this is a BB site will not go deeper but she seems to be one of the best possibilities. Bezos could be another pick. Heard some were talking about Gates that guy needs to go buy Epsteins Island and stay there.
Bohm is barely above replacement level what the hell is going on?
It’s madness, I tell you, madness!
That’s a bit of an exaggeration. 2024 All Star. Very solid bat. Not worth Kirby or Gilbert, but you’re still understating Bohm.
3 war? I’m pretty sure replacement level standards when it comes to war is below 1, maybe even lower.
Wow one year at 3 WAR where he got lucky defensively. Every other year he hovers at 1 WAR and is a butcher in the field. Maybe he turned a corner with the glove but I doubt it he doesn’t have the athleticism to be a plus glove at third. Bat first corner infielders are not hard to find, especially guys who barely hit 20 HR in a stacked lineup and bandbox park, and are notoriously streaky hitters.Like I don’t know how anyone values Bohm any anything more than an interchangeable CIF/DH. You can find a bat way easier than pitching. Whatever, buyer beware.
How many of the Phillies 162 did you watch?
I never said 3 was incredible. 3.0 war is where you get to the good players, 4 and up is all-star.
Wrigley Field was one of the worst ballparks for right handed hitters, Yankees stadium one of the best. Fenway is great for them also Rogers. Hoerner would be a good leadoff hitter for the Yankees.
Umm. Have you been to Yankee Stadium? Isn’t it famous for being great for LEFT handed hitters?
Check the stats. Yankees stadium is great for right handed hitters.
I’d prefer if the Cubs kept Nico. He’s a good contact hitter with speed, decent to good average, doesn’t strikeout a lot, can be a clutch hitter, and a good defender. That’s not easily replaced in my opinion.
Nico Hoerner and Kevin Alcantara for Devin Williams, who says no?
Cody Bellinger and $10 million in cash from Cubs for Andres Munoz, who says no?
The Mariners say *&^% no.
If his arm is still workable, yeah. But we really don’t know that atm.
The Cubs will trade Hoerner because they are a very stupid franchise.
this means nothing other than you arent a fan of them. they are average at their best and at their worst
While the Mariners could certainly use both players trading Gilbert or Kirby for either would be foolish.
Odds are the Mariners don’t end up with either and end up signing guys like Gio Urshela and Brendan Rodgers
Seems like a bad fit. Bohm seems to fit better in Milwaukee.
I think Bohm seems like a good fit in Philly.
@energel
Doesn’t seem they want him there.
It’s said that Bohm for Kirby or Gilbert is a non starter. Ok but the Phillies are not buyers in this position. If the Mariners want this clown so bad then they should at least be open to the idea of Kirby or Gilbert. If not move on and trade for Luis Arraez crybabies
They don’t want this clown that bad which is why Kirby and Gilbert are non starters. Your post was basically you arguing with yourself lol
His point was: The Phillies absolutely do not need to trade Bohm. Seattle asked. Phillies answered with a ridiculous ask. A lot of posters seem to think the Phillies are desperate to get rid of Bohm. They aren’t. Obviously Kirby or Gilbert is too high of an asking price. It proves they don’t need to dump Bohm unless they get a good offer.
VPH
I would like the Giants to offer Camilo Doval for Bohm, but I know DD would shoot that down real quick. I think Bohm stays with Phils.
Let’s be honest, posters seem to think the Phils are desperate to get rid of Bohm because that’s the only news, the only rumors this offseason.
DD keeps things very close to the vest, so the rumors are coming mostly from other sources. Other sources tend to be less reliable, and some of them are fed information from front office personnel with an interest in devaluing Bohm,
Beyond that, it’s just the echo chamber of the dribbles of information feeding endless speculation, which cycles back into the echo chamber. The Phils would probably be better off from a PR perspective with making a few lower-level signings/moves just to sate the beast a bit.
I don’t even know how to play with myself let alone argue.
Kirby and Gilbert are most definitely starters
Well played
Apparently you don’t have to give to get if you’re a Seattle fan.
Naw just trade a T-Mobile Apple IPhone 16 and a batboy for Bohm
Bohm is a below average player with a 1.4 WAR average the last 3 seasons and bad defense. He had a great month in 2024 and then the rest of the season he was a 97 OPS+ hitter. He will make $8 million in 2025 and more the next 2 times through arbitration. He has little trade value.
A decent reliever or an OF prospect that is MLB ready would be enough to get Bohm.
For Castillo the Phillies would have to be throwing in a couple of good prospects along with Bohm. More for Kirby or Gilbert.
Exactly. I wouldn’t send Woo straight up. Maybe Miller cause we have a need but I think Phillie fans are way too high on what they have.
Anyone worth either Gilbert or Kirby isn’t on the trade block.
How many of the Phillies 162 did you watch?
I don’t track that on a calendar that would be for crazy people
I saw them play whenever they were nationally televised.
Zero clue what the relevance of that is to the topic
The great one doesn’t get it. Watch a guy a few times, check his war, declare him not worth two pitchers who haven’t got a national league championship ring .
Well that would be hard since they are in the American League but yeah Gilbert and Kirby are both legit aces. Bohm isn’t. I’ve watched enough to “get it” i feel.
How’s that I don’t get it comment aging when 90% of posters are agreeing with me? We all wrong champ?? lol
Aces ! Hardly son
1 percent
Try watching the senior league
Cubs want to improve on 83 wins. Hoyer trading a 4 WAR gold glove second baseman with a great contract is about the last place I would start. This dude is a moron. Go get ace, go get a real closer, find some velocity. Hendricks, Alozay and Neris personally accounted for about 20 losses last year. Massively improve in those spots!
If he can play in the field next year.
Alzolay was injured too much to account for many losses.
An Ace is unlikely, but signing Treinan and Minter is plausible
Just looked at Bohm’s stats. He’s definitely not worth Kirby or Gilbert. Maybe Luis Castillo.
I say he is worth Castillo just for the salary difference.
No. 160+ innings is invaluable today.
sadly, but yes you are correct
is it just me or does every trade want ‘proven major league talent’ and other teams general response is ‘no’
No thanks. Bohm will be Jesse Winker Part 2.
I doubt Dombrowski has made a single offer or counter. He is half way into retirement. He’ll discuss some things at the meetings then go away for a couple weeks. I’d look to see them overpay Hoffman and then for it to go quiet while they wait for deals in late January or early February.
Lol weird take considering he’s been one of the most active fellas over the last 3 seasons.
Jerry’s job is on the line. The Mariners will find a team to take prospects.
I think the rays are the best bet
1B Diaz
2B Lowe
For
Cole young, johnny Farmello, tai peete, Logan Evans, Jeter Martinez, Mitch Garver
Sign 3B Moncada or play GG Dylan Moore at 3rd
Rf Robles
CF Julio
1B Diaz
C Raleigh
DH Arozerena
2B Lowe
LF Raley
3B Moncada
SS JP Crawford
Not enough former TB players in that lineup.
LOL
lol
Mariners giving the rays too much. Cole young for a mid past his prime 1st baseman? also brandon lowe gets injured too much. cant risk it. Moncado is going to be mid at best, and dylan moore stinks. mariners dont need “GG” they need “SS”
Too much for the Mariners to give up for those 2, but you are on the right track.
I want what your on
If you’re adding Cole young to get them to take Garvers salary take young and Garver out of your offer and it’s close. Don’t need to send a Cole Young out in a deal like this.
“Perhaps Phillies president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski was just staking out an extreme position for the start of discussions and will bridge the gap later in the offseason, but if that’s any indication of how the Phillies genuinely view Bohm’s value, it may be tough to line up on a deal.”
Bohm isn’t going anywhere. Dombrowski is smart enough to realize how difficult and expensive it would be to replace Bohm whose salary is $8 million a year. Arenado whose numbers weren’t as good as Bohm’s in 2024 is making $35 million a year and Bregman’s whose numbers weren’t as good is making $30.5 million.
Dombrowski doesn’t telegraph his trades ahead of time. So, any “Insider” opinions in print relative to Phillies trades are probably more crust than filling, and should be taken with a grain of salt or a salt substitute for those of you out there whose blood pressures get elevated when you read about the Phillies.
Bingo.
Bingo!
There is ZERO chance Bohm is back.
I’ll take that bet.
The out-of-the-box trade of the day:
Cal Raleigh (whose stock will never be higher)
Mitch Haniger
Mitch Garver
Emerson Hancock
to Atlanta.
Sean Murphy
Dylan Lee
Nacho Alvarez
+2*
to Seattle.
Murphy plays 5 games a week, Harry Ford gets eased in with 2 games a week. Dylan Lee is an excellent LH reliever and the M’s don’t ever seem to have one of those. Alvarez is the #1 non-pitching prospect for the Braves, an excellent defender, and can play 3B and SS.
Raleigh is the best catcher in the game (this year) on both offense and defense, but has shown resentment (appropriately) toward the front office. M’s unload 2 bad contracts and throw Hancock in to give Braves a fifth starter. Gives them cash to get Alonso if they want/can.
*Atlanta throws in a couple of lower level prospects to make it look even.
I say mid. Very unrealistic it wont happen. but it would be cool if did happen
I see why chose that moniker.
In English?
Moniker – username. sees why “Zippy the Pinhead” chose that name
Not nearly enough to move Cal but I’ll tell you I think they do and for your reasoning as well. Value never higher, premium position, Ford in the wings and when he’s due a deal he’ll be 31. I don’t want to pay whatever top end catcher money is for a DH in a few years.
Sean Murphy is kind of a pretty good start, doncha think?
I do think he’s kinda good but if I’m moving Cal it’s to address other needs and not replace him. Put Ford in and get his feet wet and get a 3B or a 2B or a 1B. Ford won’t have the power but he’s a catcher that steals bases.
zippy, Cal Raleigh has replaced JT Realmuto as the best catcher in baseball. He’s the kind of player the Phils should be going after in any trades. Kyle Tucker, Luis Arraez and Luis Roberft Jr are other examples of the tier the Phils should be shopping at. Realmuto has been a great one for a long time but, regrettably, his best days are behind him. He’s a free agent after 2025, along with Schwarber and Suarez. You can add Walker to that list because his days in Philly have been numbered for a long time. These Phillies are the players the organization should be looking to trade this offseason because they have all become replaceable and expensive. Could the Phils use any of these guys to acquire any of the top tier players I’ve mentioned? No one knows, but stranger things have happened. Two things are for certain. One, Dave Dombrowski will not tip his hand before he plays it and allow the media to screw up any potential trades hew has on the table. And two, Dombrowski will not be in any hurry to make a trade. He’ll let the market filter out a bit before he makes his plays. The Phils could win the 2025 world series, but not by keeping old and expensive hands that will probably bolt to other teams as free agents after 2025 if the Phils don’t pay outrageous sums to retain them, or by trading young and affordable future superstars like Alec Bohm. The bottom line is, guys like Schwarber, Realmuto and Suarez are very popular in Philly, and they’re much more popular than worker bees like Bohm. Trading any of these guys now would be very unpopular, especially if their trades don’t lead to a world series championship at the end of next season. So, Dombrowski may just sit and wait for the trade market to shake out and, at the last moment, acquire a minimal number of players by trade or free agency, that are unlikely to improve the Phils as much as new acquisitions will improve the Braves or Mets. In all honesty, Dombrowski may be looking at how difficult it will be for the Phils to win the NL East or even be dealt a wild card in 2025 and, after all that, be unable to compete on the same field with the Dodgers in the playoffs. If that’s his thinking, he may write off 2025 before it even starts, keep the Schwarber, Realmuto and Suarez fans happy for another season, and start thinking about what it will take to acquire Tucker, Arraez, Robert jr or Raleigh in the season that follows.
I aint reading all dat…
Devers, Duran, Yoshida, & Yoshida’s contract paid in full for Rodriguez & Gilbert?
Dumbest take on a trade in the world. I hope you were just joshing.
For who?
I’m actually listening on this one. My brother in law hates it when I ask him did the mariners just pay for the best smile in baseball? I love Julio, like love but I’d listen to the basics of your offer. A tweak maybe here and there but that’s really not terrible based on team needs and depth
I think it could be a win win. The Mariners need all star hitters and the Red Sox need pitching and less left handed batters.
Mariners in no way trading Julio. He’s the only reason Mariners fans havent given up hope. and trust me i know. I live there.
No they won’t and they shouldn’t. That smile!!! They should listen though.
Devers is a proven .300, 30 HR & 100 RBI hitter. Duran will soon be a .300, 30 HR & 100 RBI hitter & he can steal 50+ bases.
What about a straight up trade of Devers, Duran & Yoshida for Gilbert & Munoz?
Why would a trade between 2 win now teams like the Mariners and Phillies make any sense? The only difference between the 2 teams is the Phillies have money to spend. So maybe a guy like Castillo could make sense for the Phillies. Bit do they really need another good starter? Bohm is a great fit for the Mariners. But why would the Phillies trade him?
As for the Cubs and Hoerner they should wait until midseason. That way Hoerner is fully healthy and it will give Shaw some time to prove he’s ready not to mention give the team an extra half year of performance from him for league minimum.
I think the M’s Phillies thing is on paper they can fill the other teams weaknesses. On paper
I don’t think anything comes to pass between these two teams.
Had. Meaning they are in the past. Over now.
Baseball IS the best.
Is there any chance Seattle could take DJL for 6 baseballs?
5 used in BP for a month and you have a deal!!
While Dombrowski is looking at vets, in reality he needs to look young. Bohm, Marsh, Crawford for Lazaro Montes and Logan Evans.
They just won 95 games. They’re still in their window. Prospects are great, but win-now teams don’t trade major league ready talent for Prospects.
This shouldn’t anger anyone. If I were the Phillies, I’d ask for a starter, too. Aim high, see what you end up with–especially if Seattle reached out to them.
It’s all part of the haggling process. I would guess we’re more likely to see a third team involved if Seattle acquires Bohm.
The Mariners are seriously stuck at mid. I think they’re stalling until Young, Ford, and Emerson arrive as real contributors.
The only problem is that looks increasingly like mid-2026, by which point the pitching staff and Raleigh are on the way out/expensive.
Emerson (that’s his first name btw not his last) is very mediocre. They have six or seven better starting pitchers.
Colt Emerson is Seattle’s top prospect. Maybe that is who he was referring to?
Absolutely who he was referring to. Colt Emerson has star potential.
Oh my that aged poorly…
If they stall too much, they’ll be trading guys like Raleigh before the young guys show up. I get not wanting to block anyone, but they need help before then. It’s possible Young has a hot streak and forces their hand early on him, but it’s just as likely he takes longer than expected or ends up below projection or a bust. They need help now.
If mid is one game out of the playoffs then yeah mid. I don’t need another 116 win team, last time I checked 100% of World Series winners made the playoffs. Seattles not mid they’re much closer. Offense was atrocious and we weren’t the White Sox. We need singles not Soto. I’ll take Seattles staff against just about anyone’s in a 3/5/7 game series. Again we need singles we’re not that far off.
Please Mariners take McNeil from the Mets lol
Hoerner is an above-average hitting 2B! M’s need to strike! After Frazier, Wong and Polanco, the M’s are due for a previously above-average hitting 2B to actually hit!
Nico Hoerner has a career OPS+ of 100.
Before joining Seattle, Jorge Polanco had a career OPS+ of 111, Kolten Wong a career OPS+ of 99 and Adam Frazier a career OPS+ of 103.
Potential trade for a guy who just had surgery, hits just slightly above league average, moved from SS to 2nd when they are looking for corner infielders… YUP… sounds like Dipoto found his 2025 schmuck of the year.
Philly fans.
What are the team needs?
Not a lot. An OF bat. Some backend relievers. That’s it.
Why is Logan Gilbert and/or George Kirby not a fair ask? Bohm was worth 3 WAR, Kirby & Gilbert were worth about 2 WAR each. I think it’s actually the other way around. Seattle WANTS to trade from their biggest strength (SP) but the Phillies want their bullpen ace Munoz. Either way, I think it’s the Mariners or nobody with regards to Bohm. If the Cardinals trade Arenado. I could see the Phils and Red Birds lining up on a Bohm for Helsley deal with some other moving parts.
I think Bohm’s value is considerably less than a tier-three controllable starter (Gilbert/Kirby) or top-shelf closer (Helsley). Bohm had tantalizing expectations that haven’t been met so far. Perhaps his best landing spot would be in Toronto, where they seem to teach the art of jacking homers.
Phillies could deal Bohm for Gaussman and a good prospect arm. Let the talent of the prospect be the negotiating point. Guassman could be a very effective 5th starter in the NL with that team behind him.
Quick check from fangraphs, they have Kirby and Gilbert both at 4+ WAR and project to 3+ next year, while Bohm was 3+ and projects to 2+. Check your numbers
Looks like he’s using Baseball Reference (bWAR), which values pitchers differently than Fangraphs (fWAR). BR has Bohm 3.0, Gilbert 2.8, Kirby 1.9.
Supply and demand are your friend.
Bohm has had one above average year(likely an outlier) where both Gilbert and Kirby have been consistently better. Bohm career WAR is 3.8, Gilbert 9.8, Kirby 7.2. There is also more team control with Gilbert and Kirby.
I don’t even think the M’s would consider Bohm for Andres Munoz in a straight 1 for 1..
Munoz is going nowhere with the contract he’s signed for. Only place he’s going is to the mound for the Mariners in the 9th
Why not Horner and Bellinger?
Sign Greg bird
Start there with Seattle, then settle for Felix Hernandez’s locker. Call it a day.
Bohm for Gilbert is not that far out of line, it just doesn’t help the Mariners without adding another starting pitcher, and it’s probably more than they should pay due to Gilbert’s extra year of team control. Kirby has two extra years, including his Arb 1 season, so that does seem like a non-starter. The difference in projected value now between Gilbert and Bohm is probably fairly close for next year with Gilbert being riskier due to being a pitcher, so I think it’s not as bad of an ask as it sounds, it just doesn’t make sense. The Mariners probably look elsewhere for help at 3B. I’m thinking their adds are underwhelming this off season. I guess we will see.
I don’t know how to respond to this.
Bohm sucks. Gilbert is an incredibly valuable controllable rotation piece.
Why is this so Freaking hard for some people?
Ridiculous comment
Boehm is average
Gilbert is a top pitcher
Adding…
There are lots of Bohms available.
Gilbert is a rare asset.
People are still clueless about the value of team controlled SPs. SMH.
There actually aren’t a lot of 3B available. Arenado is old and hasn’t hit well in 2 seasons. Bregman is looking for a mega deal. So is Wily Adames. Gilbert is an extremely rare asset. I agree there, but Bohm is cheap and has 2 years of control. So he’s a bit rare as well. He’s just not as valuable as a Gilbert or Kirby, and that’s really the point. The Phillies are essentially saying we don’t need to trade Bohm. If you want him, what will it take to get Kirby or Gilbert? If the answer is they are untradeable, that’s fair. Then the Phillies don’t move Bohm at all. No problem.
Hoerner/Parades for Woo and Bliss. Sign Santana and 1b 2b 3b problem solved..
I have seen the vast majority of the games Alec Bohm played for the Phillies over the past few years, and I can honestly say there are very few Phillies players who are as responsive in clutch situations as Bohm. On many occasions, Phillies announcers would see a rally developing and comment that, with a little luck, the Phils might get Bohm to the plate with runners in scoring position and win the game. So, I’m not alone in my appreciation for how good Bohm is or how valuable he is to the Phillies. What’s more, he’s still a kid who is learning the game. He can only get better. I have also watched many games Nolan Arenado has played over the years, and I have always been a fan of his. There were times when I even posted the Phils should try to acquire Arenado. Unfortunately, Arenado is trending downward and, at $35 million a year, he does not represent the same value that Bohm who is trending upward represents that $8 million, or one-quarter Arenado’s price.
Unless their name is Jose Ramirez, Luis Roberts , vladdy jr then dipoto is only trading prospects for mlb talent
Correct
Anyone who thinks Bohm is even close to enough for Gilbert or Kirby is incorrect. It’s not even close and if Dombroski actually did make that demand (which I seriously doubt, he knows better) DiPoto hung up on him with a laugh. Gilbert is a true #1 who will make $8M next year and hasn’t missed a single start since he debuted in May of 2021. In that time he’s accumulated 12.4 fWar. Kirby is possibly even better than Gilbert, will make $5M next year, and has accumulated 11.4 fWar since he debuted in May of 2022. Gilbert has 3 years of club control left and Kirby 4.
Bohm is a good but not great player who has accumulated 7.7 fWar in 5 seasons. He had a blistering April last year but was up and down the rest of the year. Yes, the M’s need IF help but they aren’t making a desperation move for Bohm now, or ever. And adding prospects to the pile isn’t going to move the needle for Seattle who plan to contend next year after missing the playoffs by 1 game each of the last 2 years.
There were no demands or offers made. Mariners called the Phillies asking about Bohm. The Phillies returned asked about Gilbert and Kirby. It doesn’t mean they’re expected to trade them 1:1. Mariners are curious about Bohm. Phillies are curious about the Mariners pitchers. It doesn’t mean they’ll be dealt for each other.
Miller for Mayo??
Woo for Westburg would be perfect
Why is anyone messing with what has to be the best rotation in MLB? The Mariners need hitters. Players that get hits. PERIOD. Not home runs, HITS. Singles, Doubles, Bunts, just get on base and advance runners. This is not brain surgery and pretty pathetic given the amount of free agent talent out there for VERY reasonable prices. We don’t need to give up anything. Trading any part of the rotation is absurd. The Mariners knew that they had a poor, one of the MLB worst, offense and didn’t do enough to make things happen. Another season missing the playoffs by 1 game. Pathetic.
1) Alec Bohm is a really good hitter, probably hits 20-25 HRs, 50 doubles next year, 100+RBIs, and while his defensive ratings don’t look great, he has played a really good 3rd base for the most part and has been a great RBI guy, especially w/RISP. I think his HR derby participation was a big reason for his slump at the end of the year. I don’t think DD is actually going to trade Bohm, just trying to light a fire under his ass by putting his name out there. In the past, DD doesn’t “float names” in offseason/ near the deadline. If he does trade Bohm, expect Taijuan Walker to be in the deal as well.