Dick Allen and Dave Parker were elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame, as revealed by the Classic Baseball Era committee tonight. Parker (14 votes) and Allen (13) each received more than the minimum 12 of 16 votes necessary for induction. Tommy John was the next-closest candidate with seven votes, and Ken Boyer, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Vic Harris and Luis Tiant each received fewer than five votes.
Allen and Parker will be officially inducted to Cooperstown on July 27, along with any players inducted by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America. The results of the writers’ ballot will be announced on January 21.
Known in the past as the “veterans committee,” the Era Committee is a rotating panel of former players, managers, executives, team owners, media members, and historians who meet annually to determine which (if any) candidates from the past deserve election to Cooperstown. Candidates include former players who weren’t elected or considered on the normal BBWAA ballot, or non-playing personnel that aren’t part of the writers’ ballot. This year’s ballot looked at candidates whose biggest contributions to the game came in the pre-1980 “Classic Baseball Era,” though obviously a few of the candidates also had significant moments in their careers after the 1980 season.
Today’s news is undoubtedly bittersweet for Allen’s family and supporters, as Allen passed away in 2020. He twice fell just a single vote shy of induction in past appearances on Era Committee/Veterans Committee ballots, and Allen didn’t receive much attention on the writers’ ballots when he was eligible. At long last, the slugger has now finally been recognized by Cooperstown for an outstanding 15-year career highlighted by the 1972 AL MVP Award.
Allen hit .292/.378/.534 with 351 homers and 1119 RBI over 7315 career plate appearances with the Phillies, Cardinals, Dodgers, White Sox, and Athletics from 1963-77. He kicked his career off with a bang by winning NL Rookie of the Year honors in 1964, while also finishing seventh in MVP voting that same year. Allen was a seven-time All-Star who twice led the American League in home runs, and had an outstanding 155 wRC+ for his career.
No discussion of Allen is complete without mention of his outspoken personality. To his detractors, Allen was viewed as a disruptive malcontent who clashed with some fans, sportswriters, teammates, managers, and front offices, which was part of the reason Allen frequently changed teams despite his success on the field. To his supporters, however, Allen was a no-nonsense figure who was more than willing to fight back against perceived injustice, especially when faced with racism as a black player in the 1960s and ’70s. While Allen was often perceived as a bad influence during his career, many of Allen’s past teammates and managers have spoken out to counter that reputation, describing Allen in glowing terms as a clubhouse leader.
Parker also dealt with controversy during his career, as he battled a cocaine addiction in the 1980s. This well-publicized issue may have been the reason Parker also garnered relatively little support on the BBWAA ballot, and knee problems also cut short his prime years. Still, “the Cobra” at his peak was one of the best all-around players in baseball, with a resume that includes seven All-Star nods, two NL batting titles, three Gold Gloves, the 1978 NL MVP Award, and two World Series rings during his 19 Major League seasons.
Parker played his first 11 of those seasons in Pittsburgh, joining Willie Stargell as the heroes of that era of Pirates baseball, including a starring role on the 1979 “We Are Family” championship team. Injuries and drug problems hampered the tail end of Parker’s time in Pittsburgh, but he rebounded with a four-year run with the Reds that saw him bank top-five finishes in MVP balloting in 1985 and 1986. The Cobra then earned a bit more postseason glory on the Athletics’ pennant-winning teams in 1988 and 1989, capturing another ring with the latter A’s club. Over 2466 games and 10184 PA, Parker hit .290/339/.471 with 339 home runs, 1493 RBI, and had a 120 wRC+ for his career.
This year’s 16-person Classic Baseball Era committee was comprised of HOF members Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Tony Perez, Lee Smith, Ozzie Smith, and Joe Torre; MLB owners and executives Sandy Alderson, Terry McGuirk, Dayton Moore, Arte Moreno and Brian Sabean; media members/historians Bob Elliott, Leslie Heaphy, Steve Hirdt, Dick Kaegel and Larry Lester.
Congrats to both and well deserved.
Dick Allen: okay
Dave Parker: meh
Parker does not belong in the HOF. If you include him there’s about 75 other guys that belong.
Dave deserved it
Looking good for squeaky clean Dale Murphy if Dave Parker is in now.
No way. Allen yes, Parker…no way.
Allen a definitely.
Allen a complete yes and his 42 ounce bat should have a spot of it’s own.
Allen wasn’t exactly squeaky clean in Philly either, especially in relationships with writers, which probably kept him out until now.
You must’ve been to young to see him play
Parker 100% deserved it, are you crazy?
Neither does Harold Baines but here we are…
Nope.
LMFAO!
He deserves it for sure. It’s the kind of player that shows WAR not the most reliable metric.
2 batting titls, 2 WS Championships, regular season MVP,All Star game MVP 4 GG and amongst other achievements, more than 2700 career hits.
Parker deserves it more than players like Harold Baines who was inducted into the Hall of Fame
I have always maintained that player accomplishments should be voted on — not just career numbers. Almost a separate wing and not full inclusion. For example: they could induct Maris’ 61 HRs, but not Maris.
His career numbers are very similar to Allen’s, and he was better defensively although they played different positions. My initial reaction action was the same as what we read in the other comments. I’m sorry Boyer didn’t make it. Every bit the player Santo was.
He was reported to drink heavy during his shuffling years in the league.
Allen is the one who doesn’t belong. Poor fielder, far fewer than 2,000 hits, 351 HR and a clubhouse and media cancer. What got him in was the current generation of guilt-ridden people.
Parker? Nope.
Down to your take.
Dave Parker for a stretch of tie was the most feared NL hitter.
Definitely feared. The cobra was a hitting machine
For maybe a 4-yr stretch. He had 4-5 good to great years in a row. Then it all went up in smoke…and white powder. A couple of comeback years with the Reds….the rest pretty average. Horrific with the mitt.
I don’t know how he was with the glove elsewhere but with the Pirates, Parker was far from horrific with the mitt.
4-5 years of dominance is enough for me to get in. Opinions may differ.
Totally disagree.
@Luis Definitely in the running for post with most factual errors today.
Horrific describes this take. You ever heard of the Gold Glove award?
so horrific with the mitt he won 3 GG awards and was the 78 All Star game MVP for throwing out a player trying not score from deep in right field and on no bounces
Don’t forget Dave’s cannon arm. I still can’t believe the throw he made to gun down Brian Downing at home plate during the all-star game. Epic!!!
Yep.
Tiant got less than five?!?!
That is completely criminal.
Tiant was easily the most deserving of all. And, I’m a big fan of Dick Allen. It’s a shame.
Tiant deserves it
Tiant emphatically said he did not want to be enshrined after his death. I would think the players voting were especially willing to respect his wishes.
Each voter was only allowed three votes. With Parker and Allen being on the majority of the ballots, there was no room for additional candidates getting a lot of votes.
Finally! Dick Allen should have been there long ago.
As well as the Cobra!
A classic example of why writers should never vote for awards. The media didn’t like Richie Allen so they never voted him in. With players and owners/executives diluting the media’s bias, he finally got in. No idea why it took so long to get Parker in. Both very deserving.
A cautionary tale about being extremely unpleasant and combative with reporters.
That is actually not fair at all when placed into the context of the times and the era. Dick Allen was subjected to a ton of abuse in a way that was far more akin to what Jackie Robinson went through and it was very difficult to handle. One got the chance to know the real Dick Allen in later years and he was truly a class act and the Phillies were lucky to have him around after his playing career.
Carver: I remember when people in Philadelphia would dump their garbage on Allen’s lawn. Now,for the bickering portion of this thread ..
Tell us all about the cautionary tales of racism in 1960s in America, genius.
My, oh my…it takes absolutely nothing at all to bring out the ahole in you. It must be the dominant portion of your personality.
Name another black player from the 60s who had as much trouble as Allen. Most were loved by the press. Banks, Mays, Aaron, McCovey, Robinson, Williams, Brock, even Gibson who could be prickly with opposing players were all very popular with the press. I’m sure I left some out.
inquirer.com/phillies/a/dick-allen-phillies-hall-o…
I’m not subscribing to a Philadelphia paper to read an article. I just remember the press and Allen having a very adversarial relationship. I’ve never felt the need to investigate it. I’m not from Philadelphia I don’t know what the fans were like in the 60s. I know the St Louis fans and press loved Brock, Gibson, Flood, and White. They also loved Cepeda and Javier.
You are the one that is making the judgment, but feel that you have no further need to get more facts and that your own experiences are more than enough to have an opinion that matters. Very red hat-like in approach. Carry on…
I don’t vote on entry to the Hall of Fame. I made an observation on what happened with Allen. He was widely disliked by the press who happened to be the people voting on who entered the Hall of Fame.
Define “trouble”? Arrest records or a black guy who “didn’t know his place in white America” and an MLB that owned and run by white men who came from prior generations.
Allen was a rookie in 1964 playing into the 1970’s and right in the middle of Civil Rights movement. The players you list are all 50’s era players who played in the 60’s as grown men and who mostly steered clear of the movement.
The reelection of the red hated orangina proves yet again that that same racism is alive and well, and is hardly confined to the pre-civil right era. While it is was less restrained back then, the guardrails have been loosened again. We are facing the fearful backlash of the willfully ignorant, personality disordered minions of an entitled con man and his faithful dogs of hatred.
President-elect Trump won because he was so popular with minorities. He took 55% of the Latino male vote.
You probably need to start looking for a different excuse.
holy hyperbole delusion. Just because you hope for more racism so you can be the white savior, doesn;t mean it is true
By red hat you are referring to the Phillies? Or the cardinals? I’m just asking because after all this is a baseball discussion so I’m sure your mature enough to keep politics out of it, unless of course politics consumes you and creates a bias to every opinion you share here.
Carver…wrong!
@LIBL – You must be one of the red-hatted, willfully ignorant minions – it is easy to tell as you are unable to formulate an intelligent response.
The way you’re talking is the biggest reason why you lost. Your not intelligent enough to self reflect and self correct.
How is Tommy John not in? He is the most used name in baseball history.
Nah, that honor belongs to Rusty Kuntz.
metsin4: He IS in the HOF. His picture is even on the wall at the national headquarters of The Association Of Baseball Elbow Ligament Surgeons in Los Angeles.
I need to go back sometime soon. Haven’t gone in a very long time.
@BB Brian, didn’t Lenny Dykstra have to get a penicillin and tetanus shot after getting into a brawl with Rusty Kuntz? I think it may have been off the field at a truck stop between Philly and KC.
Especially with Jim Kaat in, I don’t understand how Tommy John is not in, but probably one voting committee of 16 has different preferences than another totally different committee.
What is wrong with Jim Kaat being in the HOF? A career ERA of 3.45, 180 complete games, 283 wins, 2461 strikeouts, a World Series title and 16 Gold Gloves.
But I do agree Tommy John should be in.
Nothing wrong with Kaat. He was one of those borderline candidates.
Kaat fully deserved to be in. Tommy John does too. 288 wins over 26 seasons. Both were iron men the likes we might never see again.
I saw an afternoon game at Dodger stadium I think in the late 70s. Tommy John v, Jim Katt. They both pitched complete games and the game took an hour and minutes. I had to get a hot dog and soda on my way out of the stadium. Fastest game ever, in my experience. Good times.
tommy john having to get tommy john surgery was the biggest coincidence since lou gehrig contracted lou gehrig’s disease
most used name isn’t Hall qualifications
Can someone explain to me how Parker made it? It had to be off field or non regular reasons. He was really good but this isnt the hall of really good (honestly just curious) i cant remember the last time someone with such a low war got in
Harold Baines is and always will be the answer to that one. 38.8 lifetime, peak of 4.3 with just one other year of 3+. Yikes. Parker’s 40.1 with 2 7’s and 2 6’s looks amazing vs that. Dick Allen is 58.7 with 2 8’s, a 7, and a 6. Gross injustice it took this long for him to get in imo.
There are turn of the century guys in the Hall with less than 20 career WAR. Harold Baines had like a -20 dWAR despite being a DH and not taking away from his team on defense at all. DHs should NEVER have a negative defensive WAR. Punishing players just for the position they play is ludicrous. Add that 20 undeservedly taken away to his total and he has much more respectable WAR of nearly 60. The man had nearly 3000 hits in his career and people talk so bad about him. It’s a damn shame.
If Baines couldn’t DH, he would have never racked up those hits. His knees could not take playing the outfield any longer.
@hiflew It’s not “negative defensive WAR,” it’s a positional adjustment thanks to DH being the easiest position on the diamond to fill.
If you like, put DH at zero, put the other positions above it, with plus numbers defending on difficulty culminating in SS, CF, and C—set the in/out line for something like 80 WAR and you’ll get the same result for Baines.
Anyway, back when nobody cared about dWAR, Baines’ highest vote for MVP was 9th. Ninth. He made 6 AS teams in 22 seasons, a low figure for a HOFer, and won all of one Silver Slugger.
No one thought Baines was a HOFer when he was playing. No one.
But he did. It doesn’t matter what might have happened or should have happened. All that matters is he did get those hits
I did. So stop speaking for everyone.
The last time we looked, the DH is a position in the batting order and those runs and hits count, no? That would be like saying if Craig Biggio didn’t play another position other than C or if player y didn’t move to 1b he would never have racked up those hits.
Did you actually watch him play, stat boy?
He was a very good player but again, this is supposed to be the best of the best. No one was anxiously awaiting where he would end up like Soto rn or Ohtani last year. Those are the guys that should be in.
Watched him play his whole career. Hall of very good just like lots of guys.
@TobttR,
As a little kid, I saw (then) Richie Allen hit one out of Connie Mack Stadium in 1968, and I’m willing to vouch for @jnorthey.
war, fwar, blah, blah, blah is meant for coaches and analytics departments. It has no relevance to how good a player is. If you watched Dave Parker or Richie Allen play, that’s all you would need to know. You don’t need to run to grab a calculator before making up your mind whether a player is good or not.
Agreed. And in 1968, a slide rule would’ve been my only option for calculating xwOBAloney.
War and FWar mean a lot more than your meaningless eye test
I think it just comes down to the preferences of the committee and consensus building is probably achieved to get a couple players elected.
From 1975 to 1979 he was one of the best in the game. If you look at the totality of his career, you won’t see greatness. But if you saw him play before drugs and injuries ruined him, and if you make room for a guy who during at least one stretch if his career was elite, then Parker is a Hall of Famer.
Dick Allen should have been in ages ago and would have been if he hadn’t been such a curmudgeon with the media.
Monkey’s Uncle: Just his perfect throw alone from RF to the plate in the All-Star game should be enough to get him in. And the ball didn’t bounce to the catcher, either.
After Parker left the Bucs for the Reds, in his first season he hit 34 homers and drove in 125 runs and went on to have a stellar career with the Reds, Red Sox and Athletics helping the A’s win the World Series in 1989
@Monkey’s Uncle By that criteria you’ll have 600 guys in the Hall of Fame. So, no, Parker’s not a HOFer and he’s nowhere close.
From 2018-2024 Marcus Semien has more than 90% of Parker’s entire career by bWAR. In their entire careers, with 6500 PA Semien easily beats Parker’s 10,100 PA, 45 WAR to 40, and Semien has the better peak.
Parker now has the distinction of being on the short list of worst pick for the Hall, all time.
Jack: I’d rather be the WORST person elected INTO the HOF than the BEST player NOT to be enshrined. Why do so many people try to compare today’s prima donna ERA to the ’70s-80s? They are completely different eras. The main thing is by using today’s technology baseball can correct some of the disservice for some of the players in the bygone era.
I have mixed emotions about Parker but given what has qualified for enshrinement over the years, I tend to agree with you. Great arm but he routinely misplayed fly balls every so often. And another guy who was a sucker for a curve ball in the dirt. But overall, yeah, why not?
Let me introduce you to Harold Baines.
I’m sure Reinsdorf and La Russa had a huge influence getting Babies elected.
Babies? Go little spell check go.
Gladly.
2 batting titles
1 MVP(3 other top 3)
2 WS championships
3 GG
Greatest OF arm of his time and over a 5 year period best overall player in the game.
@retire21 Please stop being ridiculous.
1975-1979
Phil Niekro 39.5 WAR
Mike Schmidt 38.8 WAR
Parker 31.1 WAR
Parker was much more George Foster even during his best stretch than he was on par with a HOFer—and that’s even letting you cherry pick the five year span for Parker, which no one except you considers conclusive.
With Dave Parker in, Giancarlo Stanton seems to be a lock at some point based in their stats.
Since he’s likely gonna hit 500 homers, unless he gets burned with a ped test failure, that’s a given.
Yankee: I normally don’t consider you a troll on here. So, with that in mind I’d suggest that you should compare the ERA of the 2 and no I’m not talking about E.R.A.
Oh, I’m not making an argument for or against, which is why I said, statistically. I was just pointing out that given their respective stats, Stanton will make it in because he’s higher in HRs, WAR, and OPS.
If baines if Hof worthy, the cobra certainly is
I am laughing at those who are using a fictional replacement stat in 2024 to talk about guys who played more than 30 years ago when it was a different game.
WAR is a garbage stat for older players. It includes defensive WAR when prior to 1980 almost no video exists of games to go back and calculate the number.
Yeah, I get that, and I agree; but for comparables between eras it’s often used as part of the measure.
Nonetheless, I wasn’t opining on who deserves to be in and who doesn’t, just that I think Stanton will be voted in with Dave Parker getting in, based on their stats.
When I was a kid in the late 80’s as a Giants Fan we all know Dave Parker was a HOF’er. He was clutch for the A’s o those late 80’s teams and that was the tail end of his career. I imagine that watching him in the Bay Area as a kid I am a bit biased but to be fair I hated (and still kinda do though less so) the A’s. I do think anyone who had to bat against Nolan Ryan should get extra consideration for the hall though. In Dave’s case he had 18 hits in 64 AB good enough for a .281 average
Dave Parker! For years that throw in the 1979 All-Star game was my favorite all time play, and I was always furious that all the applause went to the stupid catcher who did nothing but catch that amazing throw. It was Dave Parker who threw it….from the adjacent county.
Congrats, Dave!
FOmeOLS: Posted my comment on that very play just before reading yours. That was Parker all the way. I’ve never seen a better throw from the OF in my life.
It was a great throw because Brian Downing was a muscle bound slow poke. Anyone else and that throw is nadda, cause he’s safe.
Low IQ: I will not have you disparage the founder of the Bonds-era PED epidemic!
John & Tiant should get in someday. John Donaldson too from what I’ve read about him. The rest… nah.
Now, how about a spot for Buddy Bell?
Buddy Bell is criminally underrated, but I don’t know if he is a HOFer. I might be biased though because his stint managing the Rockies was quite the worst managerial job I have ever seen.
I’m biased because he was my favorite player when he was a Ranger..such an incredible third baseman! And I really think childhood hero worship plays a legit role in such decisions.
PS@hiflew
I’m not positive, but I think I read somewhere that Buddy Bell had the highest WAR of anybody not in the hall. 66.7.
Which, btw, is close to twice what Harold Baines, got…jus’ sayin…
@FOme – You haven’t seen too many of my comments if you think a WAR argument is going to work on me. Beside, Bell and Baines played different positions, so a WAR comparison is inherently unfair right off the bat. I might buy the argument that Bell was better than Scott Rolen and because of that he deserves to be in, but I haven’t looked into it deeply enough to make that argument.
@hiflew
Fair enough. I’m old enough to remember when WAR was what countries did when they didn’t like each other.
But on defense, Buddy Bell is second or third all time, behind Brooks and maybe Beltre, but I think he was better than Beltre, as awesome as Beltre was.
I haven’t checked his outs above average or WPA or UZR or whatever the stat de jour is, but when I watched him play, nothing got by him, and he made throws from Mars that never missed the First baseman’s glove.
And he could hit, too.
@FOme – I am not anti-WAR. I think the stat can serve a useful purpose. But I get irritated when people think it is the end all and be all. Not saying you, just people in general. I think WAR’s best usage is comparing players that played the same position on the field. I do not like the “positional adjustment” aspect of WAR. because I feel it adds too much opinion to the whole thing.
As far as defensive stats, I feel they are nothing but conjecture for all players before the year 2000. Those games were not all televised, so how are they going back to determine just how good a player was playing defense? Scorecards are great, but they only tell the basic part of the story.
The fact that Bell was a great fielder at third base and Baines was an outfielder who had to be moved to DH is a big plus in Bell’s favor. So how does that make a WAR comparison inherently unfair? WAR takes all of these things into account. And Bell having almost twice the WAR of Baines makes it painfully obvious that he was a much better player. It’s not even close.
His best 2 years as a manager came with the rockies. thats how bad he was.
Buddy who
An underrated third baseman from the 1970’s. Similar to other underrated players from his era who are on the outside looking in at the HOF. Like Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Dwight Evans, Luis Tiant, etc.
Congratulations to Dick Allen and Dave Parker – two of baseball’s greatest all-time hitters. Their latest honor is long overdue and well deserved.
Agree
Richie Allen YES!
Barry Bonds had better numbers than Dick Allen even if you leave off the last TEN YEARS of his career. Baseball Hall of Fame is a joke, much like the RnR Hall of Fame.
I guess Bonds should’ve avoided becoming a steroid nut. Poor baby.
Barry Bonds was a cheater!
As were Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, Biggio, and my all-time fave of cheaters – David Ortiz. Ortiz actually admitted doing PEDs, but since he’s always played nicey nicey with the media, he got into the HOF. Not to mention all the ones from the past who were jacked up on uppers to up their game.
Dick “don’t call me Richie!” Allen was good, even great for a few years. I have no problem with being inducted, but not before Bonds, Barry Bonds.
TellItGoodbye: Bonds’ numbers in his early years were impressive. That’s why it’s such a shame he decided to live on a steady diet of PEDs and ruin his career. He didn’t need any help. He would have achieved greatness without cheating. He should never be in the HOF. Alex Rodriguez, either.
He had already achieved greatness, impressive doesn’t do the 1st 10 years of his career any justice. Before he turned 30yo he was a 3x MVP, a 2nd place (The Terry Pendleton season) 5 Gold Gloves, 5 Silver Sluggers OPS+ 103, 114, 148, 126, 170, 160, 204, 206, 183. He was and is a Top 5 all-time talent.
Too much blame goes to the individual players of this era and NO WHERE near enough to the MLBPA leadership of Marvin Miller & Don Fehr. They pit player vs player because the bigger stats got salaries to go up, period, end of story. That players might have health issues down the road and/or some players refused to do them at the expense of their career earnings, playing time or even their MLB career was no concern of the MLBPA. This was a union strategy that backfired on the players when Congress got involved and gave the Commissioner the bullets to hold MLBA/players to task.
Also deserving blame, MLB writers, they didn’t say ANYTHING the whole time. They knew, didn’t wisht to lose their job over it. They give themselves a pass and elect their own to the HOF, just not the players, it’s garbage. Just another wonderful legacy of the Oakland Athletics
sfjackcoke: Come on, give Brian Downing a little credit here. He’s the one who had a large container of “Magic Powder” on top of his locker after he was traded to the Angels from the White Sox. His physique quickly grew substantially. Other players wanted to look freaky too, so Downing spread the love around. From there, it was like wildfire around the league.
If Barry Bonds were not such a repellent person, he might’ve gotten more forgiveness. But he is and he didn’t.
Bobby Bonds wasn’t much better.
Bobby Bonds is a peer of Dick Allen and like Allen had supposed similar “attitude” problems”. To an older white media covering these teams, these young, type A personalities black athletes did not “play well” in particular in the south/ flyover states parts of the country. Bonds’ issues were made worse by alcoholism that ultimately cut his career and performance short..
It’s been documented that a young Barry saw what the media did to his dad and took that very personally. Barry can be charming if/when he chooses but in large was never trusting of them, he quite frankly did not need them. So his narrative is he’s a jerk and that is what has stuck and don’t get me wrong plenty of examples of that. What you NEVER hear about Bonds or certainly never enough is his baseball intellect, his work ethic, because you know “they” are just gifted athletes.
Their relationships with the media are hugely different but there are a lot of on field similarities to Barry Bonds and Jerry Rice. Tremendous athletic gifts, tremendous work ethics that lead to very very long highly productive GOAT type careers both playing into their early 40’s.
styx!
The thing with the Steroid juggernauts of the 2000’s, Sosa, McGuire, Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod. For them to be in the hall of fame, they have to be legendary. Like with Bonds, Clemens, and A-rod. If you split their career stats in half, both halves would be in the Hall. with sosa, and Mark mcguire, thats not the case. so i know it controversial, but Bonds, Clemens, and A-rod should be in the HOF in my opinion, but Mcguire, sosa, pettitte, they should not, becuase they are not all-time greats.
I agree that the RnR HOF being a joke. Rap music isn’t rock music but Barry Bonds’ steroids usage is why players like him, Sosa, Palmero and McGuire will never get enshrined in baseball Hall of Fame
Tiant not being in the hall is insane.
He wasn’t good enough for long enough. And during his peak years had some years where he completely sucked. He’s where he belongs, highly esteemed but just on the outside looking in.
Agreed.
Shame Allen didn’t live to see it, but very happy for him and the (few remaining) White Sox fans. It’s an honor long overdue.
Dick allen and dave parker both belong in the hall,
And this was long overdue for Allen, who baseball writers/hall voters unfairly kept out.
Congratulations to both! Well deserved!
Dick Allen yes Dave Parker no….
Yes, and yes. Both yes.
Hopefully, they’ll stop putting Garvey on future ballots. Give some one else a chance to make it in.
Hate much? Dude had mvp votes in 10 years, multiple time silver slugger, 4 time gg. His negative dwar makes no sense if you actually watched him play.
Garvey had the press eating out of the palm of his hand with those award votes, but he still doesn’t compare to other HOF first basemen.
Most first baseman have a negative dWAR because of the positional adjustment in the WAR calculation. Only the best fielding first basemen are positive.
How exactly doesn’t anyone know what his dWAR really was? There’s almost no video footage from regular season baseball games prior to 1980 so essentially all dWAR numbers are just guesses.
for the 100th time, this was a different era in baseball and WAR wasn’t even an official stat
Disagree. There’s a reason he’s always on the ballot. The Hall believes he has a very strong case to get elected.
The same was true for Dick Allen and Dave Parker and they eventually got elected.
If you were around during Garvey’s peak years with the Dodgers, no one back then ever thought that he wasn’t going to be elected to Cooperstown one day. He was considered one of the top players in the game. But then Bill James and the stats revolution came along in the 1980’s and showed how overrated he actually was. His strengths were the 3 main scoreboard stats from that era, batting average, home runs, and RBI. He wasn’t very good at anything else.
Yeah, getting hits (AVG), hitting the ball very hard & far (HR), getting hits w guys on base giving them the opportunity to score (RBI) are so, so overrated. (Insert rolling eye emoji). How else are you supposed to score a run?
Very rewarding to see both of these players get in.
Tommy John and Luis Tiant should be in too.
Totally fine with this result. Dick Allen….way overdue. Cobra….way underrated, good to see him get his due. Would’ve like Tiant also, but I’m fine with how it shook out.
Why is Delgado not in the hof
Cause he got 3.8% of the vote when he was up for it, not hard to understand
I think your missing my point chief
Love it! On both counts!
Garvey is never going to win any kind of election.
Maybe if he lived in a red state
or maybe had he not had an affair and baby with a woman half his age when he was married to someone else
Like he’s the only player who ever had an affair with a woman half his age. Lol. His just made more headlines because of his fame and his previously squeaky-clean image.
Expect for the 1974 NL MVP, 1974 and 1978 All-Star MVP, 1984 NLCS MVP and the ten times he was added to the NL All-Star team.
Yeah when I was growing up I thought Garvey was a superstar. A part of me probably still does, although WAR and other stats have shown me otherwise.
It’s a shame that Dick Allen didn’t go in during his lifetime, he certainly deserved it. I do believe that his off field activities and outspokenness was the reason for that. He certainly had the stats.
I’d be curious to know if Pete Rose will finally have his “permanent ban” lifted so that he can finally be considered by the Classic Era Committee.
Rose’s permanent ban was for violating the integrity of the game. His death didn’t change that.
But guys like Cobb and Speaker were also involved in gambling scandals. Luckily for them their involvement was covered up by good ol’ Commissioner Landis. And they had no problem being enshrined. Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame. How ridiculous it is that the all-time hits and home run kings are on the outside looking in.
Both well deserved. Congrats Cobra.
In other news former Orioles, Reds, Padres, and Angels player and Rangers, A’s, Padres, Braves and Tigers hitting coach Merv Rettenmund passed away yesterday. He was 81.
RIP Merv
Bounced to Jackie Hernandez for the final out of 1971 WS Game 7
And Curt Gowdy said right after that Earl Weaver said that when the Pirates got Hernandez in the trade for Freddy Patek that the Pirates would never win anything with him at shortstop.
how the hell does tommy john keep getting snubbed?!
Congrats to the 2 legends
Congrats Cobra! In the late 70’s there wasn’t a more feared hitter in the game than Dave Parker. ‘When the leaves turn brown I’ll be wearing that batting crown’! Had some really good years with the Reds as well. Well deserved!!
absurd it took this long for allen. career ops higher than dimaggio, mays, aaron, schmidt and many other legends
Reporter, “Cobra, why do you wear a Star of David necklace? You’re not Jewish.”
Parker, “Because my name is David, and I’m a Star.”
amazing
that line should get him into the HOF by itself
@dasit,
That line should be on his plaque.
Great news, I loved watching him swing that 40oz bat in the 70s. To bad Bill MELTON is not here to congratulate his old teammate as well.
not trying to take anything away from dick allen or dave parker
but you cant call it the hall of fame any more
it is now the hall of very good
Dick Allen beats Soto’s career OPS+ in 11 seasons, from 1964-1974,
Allen’s not the problem here. In more than 10,000 PA Parker put up just 10% more bWAR than Soto did in 4,100 PA, and Soto’s not close to being a HOFer at this point. He’ll need 4 more peak seasons by the traditional standards of the Hall. . Parker’s the problem.
As I stated to a different commenter, compare the DIFFERENT ERA’s. Would Soto, Judge, etc put up monster #’s against Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro,Don Sutton, etc?
THAT WOULD BE “NO”
Nada
Long overdue for Allen. It is a shame that he has passed. Let’s hope the HOF does not make the same mistake. Let’s get Lou Whitaker in before he dies.i
Any idea when the committee for Whitaker’s era meets again? He definitely deserves it. Just compare Whitakers stats to Ryne Sandberg and Ozzie Smith.
Lou Whitaker is a Hall of Famer.
Easily a Hall of Famer
Dick Allen finally got in, everything in the universe is a little more right
The fact that Bobby Grich wasn’t on the veterans ballot is a travesty of justice. Not many second baseman with better career numbers. 71.1 WAR is crazy for that position. Grich is a hall of fame player. Low IQ veterans committee.
Bobby Grich played in an era where second baseman and shortstops weren’t expected to hit. He did so he has an inflated WAR. If you take his stats and compare them to second baseman of other eras, he still has a case but it’s not on the level of a travesty.
Absolute TRAVESTY!!!
And the fact that he was the rare middle infielder who could field his position well and hit like he did, is the REASON his WAR is rightly inflated
IMO, Grich is easily, easily the best player NOT in the HOF.
He definitely is. The only thing holding him back is that he doesn’t have 2000 hits. And that shouldn’t matter when you’re as good at everything else as he was.
Parker? DAVE Parker?
Ridiculous choice, even worse than Jack Morris. Parker makes the Hall actively worse for how he not just lowers the bar, but eliminates it. If Parker’s in, Giancarlo Stanton’s a lock if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow. Brian Giles is significantly better than either.
“Remember, kids, if you don’t have what it takes to make the Hall, get a writer to give you a cool nickname. Improves your stats by HALF AGAIN!”
Don’t be a DICK Allen.
Yes dave parker, he deserves it.
Tommy John should have been a slam dunk..
how many batting titles did they win? Did either accrue more than 2700 hits?
How about Gold Gloves?
Or MVP awards?
Or World Series Rings?
Parker:
2 batting titles
2712 Hits
3 GG
1 MVP
2 WS
and even a All-Star MVP
In 19 years.
Allen:
0 batting titles
1848 hits
0 GG
1 MVP
0 WS
In 15 years.
Allen had the highest wRC+ in all of baseball for an 11 year period.
Allen was a great hitter. There’s way more to hitting than hits and batting titles. There’s this little thing called POWER, which Dick Allen had more of than all but a few men who have ever played the game. He only played 15 years, which is the only thing keeping him from 2000 hits, which is irrelevant anyway when you’re a great power hitter.
Oh I know, just @TheMan3 asked.
Lou Whitaker, lifetime WAR 75.1.
Dave Parker 40.1.
Wtf!?!?
Well said. It’s absurd. It’s even worse than the Jack Morris joke pick.
We even had some 12 year old blurt out ‘for five years he was the best in the game!” which of course he wasn’t. Mike Schmidt crushes even those cherry picked years. Why five years? Why does it have to be 1975-1979?
Oh, right, because if you let other guys have their best five seasons during that generation, Parker even gets crushed by that low standard tailor made for him.
Steib was better than Morris during their peak years
Whitaker should be in. But using a fictional replacement stat to judge a different game more than 30 years ago is equally absurd.
Whitaker was an excellent player but received MVP votes in just one season (1983, when he finished eighth). Parker won the award once, finished second once, third two times, and fifth once. There’s nothing WTF about Parker’s career and credentials.
and even got some votes for MVP in his last few years. dudes a beast.
Both Dave Parker and Lou Whitaker have belonged in the HOF a long time ago. I’m just glad that the Cobra is FINALLY getting the call.
WAR was not an official stat when either played baseball
It’s a stat that wasn’t calculated back then, but it can easily be calculated retroactively. And yes, it tells us a great deal about the abilities of these men.
Crying shame Tiant isn’t already in there.
In recent years, the committee has done a disservice to Ron Santo, Dick Allen, Buck O’Neil, Minnie Minoso, and, now, Luis Tiant. All should have been voted in while they were still alive.
Don’t sleep on Dewey.
Tommy John and the late Dr. Frank Jobe need to be inducted together. It’s ridiculous that Dr. Jobe isn’t in. Aside from Marvin Miller, no non-participant in the past 50 years has impacted the game more. Without Jobe’s surgical breakthrough, countless players wouldn’t have been healthy enough to earn the contracts Miller fought for. His impact on the game is enormous. Isn’t that what a sports hall of fame is for?
This Classic Baseball Era committee is turning it into the Hall of Okay
Parker was better than okay, but definitely below HOF worthy.
A lot better than Harold Baines though
We are in agreement that both should not be in.
The criteria today for who gets in is obvious but cannot be discussed.
Why are you afraid to see what you mean when it’s painfully apparent?
*say
It’s about damn time that Dick Allen gets enshrined.
YEA DICK ALLEN YEA!!!!!
Dick Allen’s induction corrects one of the biggest omissions in the Hall. Among other worthy players, Dave Steib deserves serious consideration – he was a better pitcher than Jack Morris when they were routinely 1 and 2 in the AL
Time for Dwight Evans and Luis Tiant.
Amen!!!
1975 Red Sox legends!
People don’t understand that Dick Allen absolutely raked during a depressed offensive era.
He generated a 156 OPS+
line for his career.
That’s raking!
Around here there’s a lot of people who don’t understand stuff. This One Belongs to the Reds, for example
Lou Whitaker over Allen and Parker
Lou Whitaker did play the majority of his career during the elected the Hall looked at this time. He’ll be on the modern era in the near future.
Hall of Fame has no appeal. Some of baseballs best will not get in and Manfred and others have created the big sham of who cheats correctly.
They’ve been electing undeserving Hall of Famers since the 1940’s. Read Bill James’ excellent book “Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame” and you will see. In the early years of the Hall there was a committee charged with deciding which 19th Century players should get in. Let’s just say that they put in some guys who weren’t even on Harold Baines’ level of Hall-worthiness. Which is kind of understandable because there wasn’t much information or statistics published at the time about these old-time players.
Then there was the Veterans Committee during the era when Frankie Frisch was in charge. He and his committee put in a lot of their buddies from the 1920’s and 1930’s Cardinals and Giants who didn’t really belong in the Hall. So the Hall of Fame standards have really been out of whack almost from the beginning.
Garvey rejected by voters twice in two months
Did anyone really believe a Republican was going to win the Senate seat in California? The point of him being on the ballot was to have a Republican on the ballot versus two Democrats so they benefit with down ballot Republican votes and to box out more progressive Democrats (Barbara Lee and Katie Porter).
He succeeded in both and actually got the more votes for a Republican in statewide office in more than a decade as well as got a higher percentage than Donald Trump.
You should have been in many years ago. Congratulations Dick Allen.
I guess defense doesn’t count.
How about Nettles with a 67.9 WAR? Or Whitaker with a 75.1 WAR?
Whitaker is part of the Modern Era according to the Hall. He’ll be on the ballot in the future.
Nettles and Lou could also hit a little, too.
Congrats and deserving.
I can appreciate everyone’s passion, but I’ve never understood how worked how some fans get about the HOF.
If you think Player X was better than Player Y and Player Y is in the HOF, then the voters didn’t agree.
If you choose to go visit the HOF and pay $??? are you going to feel ripped off because “not deserving player” has a plaque?
Pretty sure the reason you go is youre upstate and you figure “why not?”
Long overdue for Dick Allen.
Great choices! Both were excellent players, feared hitters and among the best in the game at one point.
About time for Allen. He should’ve been in a long time ago. Soto is about to get $700M with a career OPS+ of 160. Allen had a 165 over a stretch of 11 seasons.
765m
Parker didn’t deserve it. He had an excellent stretch of 5 seasons, but did nothing otherwise,
baseball reference says otherwise
No it doesn’t. BR says Parker had a WAR of 31.1 for his five great seasons, and a WAR of 10.6 in his other 14 seasons.
And lastly, Tiant is better than John.
Yep. Greatness over a few seasons trumps goodness over a long period of time. Otherwise how would a guy like Koufax have gotten in?
Congrats to Dick “don’t call me Richie” Allen and the Cobra. Well done.
Cooperstown is a museum. To not elect Tommy John should be criminal.
just because he got a famous injury doesnt mean you let him in.
He had 288 wins with a 3.34 era and a 61.6 war won 20 games 3 times and pitched until he was 46…What’s not hall of fame worthy? I’ll be waiting…
His 231 losses, 4.0 SO/9, more hits per inning in his career and his 1.30 WHIP.
He just played 26 years to accumalate stats.
Cy young lost 315 games and almost gave up as many hits as innings pitched yet he’s in and they named an award after him. Lol
Yeah, and he won over 500. Would you expect him to have less than 300 losses with that many decisions? He was great but no one is Superman. Never thought I’d see the day when someone questioned the greatness of Cy Young.
Young won 62 percent of his games, John won 55 percent of his games.
300 is pretty much the magic number to get in the hall of fame for a pitcher He was 12 wins short and he was probably the first pitcher to ever have a major surgery like that and still continue to pitch well..
Young did this playing half the games in that time period. In no way Tommy John is half as good as Cy Young.
all yinz that is saying Parker aint a HOFer obv never saw him play. Dude was a beast. Most feared hitter in the NL (maybe even MLB) for a few years, and had a rocket of an arm.
For a FEW years…That’s not hall of fame material..
He won a WS in his peak. and even was a great hitter in his mid-late 30’s
No, Parker was not a great hitter in his mid-late 30’s. He had one good year after the age of 28.
From 84-86 (Ages 33-35) and 90 (Age 39) were all all-star level seasons. every other year he was above average bat.
Koufax was only great for 5 or 6 years. He wasn’t even good for the first 6 years of his short career. Greatness over a few seasons can definitely get you in.
Koufax’s era his first 7 seasons: 4.00, he spent time in the bullpen, but broke out and ended up with career 2.76 era.
If Dave Parker can make HOF, then so can Boog Powell.
I am happy that Allen made it. He should have been awarded a long time ago. I remember the 1970 season with him in our lineup and he was feared. He had a great season, was sad to see him traded the next season. He may have had attitude but I don’t recall him being a problem here. Sorry he is not here to receive the award.
Dick Allen gets in for the SI cover alone : you all have seen it, juggling a baseball while taking a drag
Jim Sundberg, Mark Belanger, Don Mattingly…probably at least 100 players in the 40 WAR range that could get in now. Will Clark and so many more in the 50 WAR range. Willie Randolph in the 60 WAR range. Soon it’ll be the hall of fame and very good.
But somehow Lou Whitaker has yet to make it
Whittaker – Trammel should make it as a duo.
Trammel is already in
I know but W-T should be in as a duo. They were bothe better than Tinker-Evers-Chance.
Has as much of a case as Larry Bowa
I know people will point to Parker’s defense, but the three years he won Gold Gloves, he made 9, 13 and 15 errors. I never understood the Gold Glove voting. Even now when it is more objective, Soto was considered a runner up and he’s awful. Rich, but awful.
Errors are mostly irrelevant. Range and arm strength are much more important.
Key to not making errors is to not take chances, play it safe, only do what is a sure thing.
Tommy John has been my choice for HOF for a long time.
Congratulations to both!! But how does Dewey Evan’s stack up vs Dave… definitely a better fielder and at worse equal arm strength… just wondering.. I agree with many… El Tiante way before Tommy John…
Dick Allen definitely deserves it. I’d say Parker didn’t, but they already elected Baines a few years ago so who cares at this point
And back in the day they elected some guys worse than Baines.
I’m not convinced either of these guys belong in the HOF,but I knew they would go in eventually. Parker, in particular, had one good year after the age of 28.
Tommy John should have gotten the nod.
Until Thurman Munson gets in, all these veterans committee additions are a sham. (Most are a sham anyway.)
Munson and Parker are both kind of borderline.
These guys get in but still no Pete Rose. Come on man.
Looking at Tommy John’s numbers he won 182 games after the most groundbreaking surgery for a pitcher in history And he won 20 games in 3 of the next 5 years right after the surgery. I think that’s pretty incredible…
one of the worst hofers to make it. good lord. parker is meh as they come
Definitely not meh at his peak. He was a tremendous player then, albeit a borderline Hall of Famer.
Allen should have been in years ago and Parker has something of a case, although there are better players from his own era still awaiting induction. But how much credibility can we give to a committee with guys like Arte Moreno on it?
Well deserved for both of these gentlemen. Took far too long. Congratulations to both.
Just for fun:
Parker fWAR/650 PAs was 2.62.
Reggie Smith had a 5.22/650, approximately twice as high.