Earlier this offseason, the Cardinals declined an offer from the Yankees that could’ve sent Marcus Stroman to St. Louis for Nolan Arenado, according to a report from Mark Feinsand, John Denton and Bryan Hoch of MLB.com. It’s unknown whether Arenado would have approved that trade. MLB.com reports that the Cardinals never brought it to the star third baseman because they were uninterested in acquiring Stroman.
That’s not to say that talks between the clubs on Arenado are finished. The Yankees still have needs at both corner infield positions. Feinsand, Denton and Hoch report that they’re showing increased interest in Paul Goldschmidt at first base. They write that signing Goldschmidt might make Arenado more likely to waive his no-trade clause to join his former teammate as a corner infield tandem in the Bronx.
Various reports have tied the Yankees to Goldschmidt throughout this week. It seems they’ll turn to one of the short-term free agent options to upgrade first base. Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic reported on Thursday that the Yankees were increasingly likely to pursue a more affordable first baseman than to spend at the top of the market for Pete Alonso or Christian Walker. Walker, whom the Yankees had reportedly preferred to Alonso, has subsequently come off the board on a $60MM deal to Houston.
Interestingly, Goldschmidt’s asking price could itself prove a sticking point. Most predictions, MLBTR’s included, assumed he’d sign a one-year deal as he enters his age-37 season. Feinsand, Denton and Hoch report that Goldschmidt is seeking multiple years. That doesn’t guarantee he’ll find a two-year deal, of course, which would be a lofty ask coming off a middling season.
Goldschmidt hit .245/.302/.414 with 22 homers during his final year in St. Louis. He posted career-worst strikeout and walk rates with overall offense that measured exactly league average. Goldschmidt had a better second half after a dismal start to the season, but the overall numbers are worrisome given his age. MLBTR felt he’d secure $15MM on a one-year deal.
Money is also a complicating factor on Arenado. Even if the Yankees signed Goldschmidt and Arenado were willing to play there, they’d still need to find an agreeable return with St. Louis. The Cardinals owe the eight-time All-Star $64MM over the next three seasons, while the Rockies are on the hook for another $10MM between 2025-26. (Colorado’s obligations would carry over in the event of a trade.) $12MM of the Cardinals’ $64MM is deferred. MLB.com writes that the net present value of what St. Louis owes is around $60MM.
The Cardinals are trying to shed at least the vast majority of that deal. Katie Woo and Chandler Rome of The Athletic reported that the Astros would’ve absorbed around $45MM had Arenado not vetoed the proposed trade to Houston earlier this week. ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported differently, writing that Houston would have taken $59MM. In either case, the Cardinals would have shed most of the money.
Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch wrote this afternoon that the extent of the Yankees’ interest in Arenado depends on how much of the deal the Cardinals would cover. While it’s not known how much the Yankees want St. Louis to eat, their proposal of Stroman would’ve been a financial counterbalance. The righty will make $18MM next season and would trigger a matching player option for 2026 if he throws 140 innings. An Arenado/Stroman swap would’ve gotten the Cardinals off the hook for the former’s salaries in 2026-27, but it would not have represented a significant cut next season.
Arenado has a $32MM salary next year, $5MM of which is Colorado’s responsibility. Another $6MM is deferred, so the immediate savings for St. Louis would only have been $3MM. The Cardinals could have tried to flip Stroman themselves. The righty is coming off a 4.31 ERA over 154 2/3 innings. His salary is above market but not egregiously so, but it doesn’t seem the Cardinals had any interest in that sequence of moves.
A player’s competitive balance tax number resets if they’re traded. Assuming the NPV on Arenado’s contract is around three years and $60MM, he’d carry an approximate $20MM luxury tax hit for an acquiring team if the Cardinals did not eat any money. RosterResource calculates New York’s luxury tax number around $287MM. Signing Goldschmidt or taking most of Arenado’s contract would push them beyond the $301MM final tax tier. Doing both would vault them well beyond $301MM, which comes with a 110% tax on every dollar spent from that point.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Are the Cardinals going into full rebuild mode?
Rsox
Maybe. They haven’t had much success trying to keep the contention window open by trying to fuse young and aging players together the past few years so maybe they are looking to hit the reset button and just let the kids play and see whats there for the next competitive cycle
John Madden’s neck coochie
No. They’re not even trying to rebuild. They’re treading water until Mozeliak is gone and they’re going to fire Marmol and try to pull an Orioles/Guardians.
They’re a small market team now. They dug themselves in too deep with the Stadium/BPV and now the regional cable money is gone and they’re F*****d.
stlcardsblues
The team is not in financial ruins. They cry poverty but are still extremely profitable. Dewitt was slow to change outdated business models. Now they are trying to use the rebuilding of their minor league development staff as an excuse to cover up they still refuse to increase payroll to current industry trends.
BITA
I truly think they are using this minor league development talk to cover for the fact that ticket sales are way down and the team is making less money. I think thats the problem people are not going to games and spending money and now the team has less to spend.
Raymond Flagstaff
inflation is a beast. i would suspect a lot of teams are worried about this issue
walls17
#BFIB
BITA
#dumbthingtosay
Bart Harley Jarvis
@walls17,
Now, maybe more like v-fib?
Patriot12992
Why does this all have to be conspiratorial? Why could it not just be that the Cardinals legitimately want to go in a different direction? I mean it makes sense, they have been middling recently spending a lot of money on aging players, maybe they want to reinvest in the farm and while they are doing that it makes little sense to bring in FA, and also why not try to trade some vets?
Raymond Flagstaff
People who think the word conspiracy means fake weird me out. Conspiracy is more common than its opposite wherever money and power are centered. Its such an obvious truth its amazing to me people dont get it
Patriot12992
People who just site “money and power” as a reason for something in the absence of evidence weird me out so I guess we are even lol
Cardinals are not winning right now, they want to try something new, but you are clearly funneling your own worldview into this you basically admitted as much. They were obviously trying to win over the last 10 years, made a lot of big trades and signings. Didn’t work….time for something new.
burrwick
Huh?
17dizzy
Face it!!! The DeWitts aren’t wealthy enough to run with the big dog owners in MLB anymore!!!
That’s the reason you’ve seen John Mozeliak tear down this Historic Cardinals Franchise over the past 8 year with —- not by obtaining Quality Baseball Players —- but with purchasing his “Low Hanging Fruit” & Lightning in the Bottle Players.
Sure —- Mozeliak has gotten the blame!! But the DeWitts can’t supply Mozeliak the money that is needed to upgrade each season with “quality players” such as the perennial contenders owners can do each season!!
spudchukar
7th richest!
Lanidrac
Baseball is a business. Aside from Cohen, the wealth of MLB owners doesn’t matter! All other MLB owners only spend within their team’s revenue in order to make a profit every year. Some owners seem to be pocketing more than they should (which does not include DeWitt), but almost none of them ever spend out of their own pockets, and they shouldn’t need to do so.
JoeBrady
Alleluia! Some people don’t spend a penny on the games, and don’t understand why the owner doesn’t part with their personal wealth to sign better players.
The spenders and non-spenders have a decent correlation with attendance.
Raymond Flagstaff
Comparing joe schmo earning 40k a year to men with many times a million dollars?
Besides theres a bit of a hole in the logic. The teams income is his, therefore according to you he shouldntbe compelled to put it back in? Maybe but i wohld argue the league needs a minimum expenditure in one form or another, way more than a cap
Lanidrac
Attendance, yes, but also other revenue like merch sales and especially media contracts. The Cardinals always draw very well, even with last year’s dip in attendance, but they have below average media revenue, and that’s before they recently lost a significant chunk of what they were supposed to earn with their renegotiations with Diamond Sports Group. Hopefully, the promised addition of an ala carte service will help make up for that.
Lanidrac
Technically, yes, the team’s income does belong to the owner(s), but it’s considered separate from their other personal wealth. I said they SHOULD put most of the team’s revenue back into the franchise (save for a reasonable profit).
But they SHOULD NOT be expected to put extra money into the business beyond what it took to buy their stakes in their franchises in the first place, unless like Cohen they just care that badly about having a winning team that they are willing to take a loss.
Raymond Flagstaff
Yea but perhaps there should be some way to push out the owners who cant or wont keep up. Seems much more preferable than badgering owners that want to win to spend less. There are usually many rich people who want a franchise. Why allow uncommited owners? It is a monopoly and they dont really have standard rights
178iq
Every team is owned by billionaires. Yankees made a 600milliin dollar profit last year losing the WS. I think the dodgers broke even or lost money…? The Yankees goal is to make money, not win the WS.
17dizzy
7th richest baseball team and having to sell off all of their best players to go through a rebuild.
What does that tell you about Cardinals Mismanagement???
Sounds like John Mozeliak had out live his usefulness many years back.
17dizzy
Wow —- didn’t know that.
case
If both players rebound Stroman would be more useful at the trade deadline, a lot of playoff teams might be set at 3b but more SP is always a good bet.
deweybelongsinthehall
Stroman still has baggage and there is is no reason for a team wanting to shed salary to get him. As for Goldie, I was thinking what the story mentioned but for the Red Sox. They trade Casas, Yoshida and more ($$ and prospects) for pitching and then work out a deal with St. Louis for Arenado as well as sign Goldie. Lineup for 25:
Duran LF
Campbell 2B
Goldschmidt 1B
Devers DH
Arenado 3B
Abreu RF
Story SS
Wong C
Rafaela CF
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – So you want a .716 OPS in the 3-hole and a .719 OPS in the 5-hole?
What makes you believe while in their mid-late 30’s both will reverse two consecutive years of massive declines?
That’s extreme wishful thinking there, they are not what they used to be.
Tiger22matt
Casas is the new Clint Frazier lmao
KingKat
If Stroman doesn’t have no trade protection, it might be worth it to make the deal just to get out of the Arenado deal and open up other options but the Cards must not have felt confident they could line something up with a third team at this point.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever. Risk vs reward. Short term desks and I believe both would greatly improve playing at Fenway. Lineup balances out (L/R) and if Story stays healthy, who knows? Reminds me of how the 13 team was put together. Seems to fit and if the club gets another starter (2 or better), the team is almost set. I doubt they would pay but iId love for Tanner Scott to be the final piece. Such would make sure Chapman is not overused by Cora. Lineup I put together doesn’t include Anthony who if Abreu is graded, could slot right in. I just put Campbell at second and didn’t want to assume too much with two rookies.
deweybelongsinthehall
Tiger, ridiculous comment. No guarantees but he had a weird injury that derailed last year. Time will of course tell.
jerseystrongsports
In the past, Carlson, O’Neal. Yankees have had interest in Cardinal players, but they seem to have a higher opinion of their players. Than who they may get back. Arenado is on decline. St. Louis get back Stromen not the worst return, he pitches well flip him at trade deadline. As for Yankees I feel Arenado is.Donaldson 2.0. So if no trade, Yankees better off. Arenado great career, but the end comes sooner for some than others.
deweybelongsinthehall
Put him in Fenway and he’s fine. His glove is still there and his “decline” is still positive production. I’d take him in a heartbeat, especially if the cost is mostly just money. Would prefer him to Bregman as those back years for Bregman will I. my view be far worse.
Tiger22matt
Nope, he’s in every trade rumor and Red Sox fans think he’s bringing in a star. Definitely the next Frazier.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Sorry my friend but I couldn’t disagree more. The Red Sox have already taken far too many risks by acquiring players whom they hope will rebound, they don’t need two more. I don’t want to see Casas moved unless it’s for a young cost controlled talented starting pitcher.
As for lefty/righty, the Red Sox have been pushing that BS only to prepare fans for a trade of Duran, Abreu or Casas.
And it is total BS because the starting lineup will have 4 RHB (Story, Rafaela, Wong, Grissom/Campbell) along with multiple RHB on the bench.
4 RHB starters is plenty, especially considering 74% of all MLB pitchers are righties.
paulk-2
Goldschmidt is done. Any team going after him is going to find out that the fastball is going to zip by him.
rondon
Stroman is a problem child. That might be a bigger issue than the money.
Bronxlou
Sox have a logjam at OF and MI, yet, with 1B and 3B also spoken for, apparently are still trying to acquire offense. They need to trade some of their excess. If, as you suggest, Story (ss), Grissom or Campbell (2B) and Rafaela (in that case, presumably OF) are starting, there’s no room for Boston’s two top prospects, Anthony (OF) and Mayer (MI), both of whom are considered top ten overall prospects, both of whom are expected to be ready to play in 2025 and both of whom are lefties. And there’s no room for Hamilton (also a lefty) who was a 2.6 WAR player last season, who Fangraphs is projecting as the starting 2B next season and who will make the minimum. They also have Swiss Army Knife Romy Gonzalez, who appeared in 31 games at 2B last season and no longer a prospect Nick Sogard, who appeared 18 times. I don’t understand what the Sox are doing.
deweybelongsinthehall
Tiger, Casas is in rumors because the team finally realized Devers has to be moved off third and Yoshida has negative value. Add that to it costs to get and you should understand Casas has value even after his injury.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever, at least I have a friend! Sox are too lefty oriented and teams clobber them late with lefties. I’m fine with the right older players which I think these are. Otherwise you always buy high. Story is of course the biggest question. He goes out again and Hamilton another lefty is in there.
deweybelongsinthehall
He was fine in the second half and won’t cost $20m+.
deweybelongsinthehall
Most of which has question marks. Hamilton has value with that speed and likely had his top year on 24
While I mentioned him as the back up to Story, he’s likely on the block. Mayer hopefully will be up if Story goes on the DL. They also know they need to trade lefty bats. Duran with Nother big year will be one expensive and could be dealt now but the return has to be great. More likely, they’re trading two of Yoshida, Casas and Abreu. That said other teams have been playing hard ball knowing the Sox want to get pitching. More credit to Cashman who just deals.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bronx – Trades are coming.
cwsOverhaul
Spencer Jones seems like the new Clint Frazier.
BITA
Arenado doesn’t need to rebound he’s still a good player. Stroman is coming off a bad season and the Cardinals have enough starters they need to trade at the deadline.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Cards should have zero interest in a starter who is market value if they want to cut payroll. Kind of silly the Yankees even offered.
Longtimecoming
I’d say Arenado is a good player still but has shown decline last 2 years and for 32 and 27 mil he needs to rebound to justify that – even with CR paying 5 mil. I think like a lot of fans talking about a lot of players, you can’t take the salary out of the equation.
Hosmer wasn’t nearly as bad for 3-4 years as a Padre as fans stated but at his salary he was overpaid for what he produced. Same for Wil Myers. Just some recent examples from my team to make the point.
BITA
Arenado is a player getting older and not quite as valuable as he once was but still a good player.
Homer is a bum. Myers is a bum.
Longtimecoming
And there you have it – you are a bum!
17dizzy
As long as John Mozeliak is in charge of the Cardinals Front Office “every season” can be classified as a Rebuild year.
For the past 8 seasons —— instead of building around Arenado and Goldy, he’s made the team weaker in every move he’s.made!!!!
I’d love to see Arenado’s and Goldschmidt at the corners for the Yankees!!!!
Those 2 — relatively cheap moves—- could very well be just the right moves to get their World Series Rings for 2025!!!!!
paulk-2
Cardinals want to tank his season. Mozeliak wants to dump not just Arenado, but Gray and Contreras as well. Unfortunately, they already told him they weren’t dropping the no trade clauses. The Cardinals just signed a new TV deal, but it was worth less than the one they had before since Bally’s was bought out. Ticket sales were strong last year but nobody came to the games after most of Cardinal Nation finally realized that Mozeliak has been dreadful the last few seasons and it’s time for him to move on. They will not sign any worthy free agents. Its all about shedding payroll.
Lanidrac
No, they are not rebuilding. They are just transferring some of the budget from the MLB payroll over to player development as they retool for next year. They still have a decent chance to compete in the weak NL Central, and they’ll be seriously contending again in 2026 or 2027 at the latest.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
I think they’re more interested in letting some of the older/declining players go. I doubt they want to do a full rebuild because with the new rules about drafting, you can’t just tank for 4 years to load up on top picks anymore.
Salzilla
lolz, I mean you have to give Cash credit for trying. I’d have said no, too!
But now we know, Nolan was/is in the crosshairs for sure. How’re we feeling about that? Who would it take? I’d give up Clarke.
Rsox
I think it’s more interesting that the Yankees keep targeting RH bats (Bellinger aside) and not trying to play to their ballparks strengths
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
They’ve traded for belly, jazz, Soto
Cashman tries to replenish the lefties
Salzilla
I don’t disagree, but most of the decent available players are righties right now.
top jimmy
Santana is a switch hitter and IMO a better option than Goldschmidt at 1B. I think Polanco, assuming his medicals clear from his offseason knee surgery, is a good rebound candidate for 3B or 2B. His LH bat would play very well at Yankee Stadium.
Raymond Flagstaff
Santana is a better option than goldy? what universe is that in, i’d like to know which one im in now because it seems to keep changing these days
deweybelongsinthehall
It’s funny. One lesser year and Goldie is over the hill. He turned it around the second half and id take him in a heartbeat if I needed a 1Bman.
Motor City Beach Bum
Santana’s stats say he is a better option as of last year.
stymeedone
Past stats are only true of the past. Santana was better last year. He’s older, so I’d bet on Goldy for next year.
Salzilla
That said, I’d bet on all of Goldy’s past stats than Santana’s.
WadeBoggsWildRide
RayFlag, Santana was better last year at least.
Motor City Beach Bum
I thought I read somewhere that Santana was up there in total WAR the last 3 years with Walker and others (probably Goldschmidt too). Too many articles out there right now to kero track of. I like Santana on a 1 year deal for Detroit, but I agree one bad half season doesn’t spell the end for a player of Goldschmidt’s caliber.
SalaryCapMyth
This is the universe where you look at stats and see for yourself.
Raymond Flagstaff
Lol if youre an idiot who thinks one season proves a trend
Motor City Beach Bum
One season can be a sign of the beginning of the end though. Just ask Houston who ran into it with their 1B signing Abreu last year.
KnicksFanCavsFan
@Rsox
I don’t think the Yanks are into Goldschmidt like it’s being rumored. I do wish they would look into Profar in a two year deal and Santana on a 1 year deal.I wouldn’t mind if they brought in Bregman on a 5/$150 deal. Add Robertson to the pen and I’m good.
Salzilla
@Knicks
I’d be not good with that haul tbh.
I don’t like Santana to keep going, though a switch hitter helps.
Profar is too inconsistent.
We just added Cruz. Now for sure we need to focus on lefties.
Bregman is icky. Yes I said it. Icky.
stymeedone
@knicks fan
So all of your wishful spending would put the Yankees in the 110% penalty on Bregman. Do you really think paying $63MM per year on Bregman is a wise move?
walls17
I think it’s just more so circumstance than anything else. The hitters available for the most part are RH, and they cant afford to do nothing.
Blue Baron
walls17: Who can’t afford to do nothing? Sometimes, the best moves are the ones not made.
slider32
Yanks have enough lefty’s, Bellinger,Wells, Rice, Dominguez Jazz!. You need balance
Mynameisnoname
Can’t give up Clarke. Clarke had an ERA under 3 and has a similar cutter value and shape as Burnes. If he ever learns not to overthink sequence, watch out.
Arenado like Bellinger had due to money owed vs fWAR, has negative trade value. Depth prospect only, maybe Warren if you’re taking the bulk of the money.
Gil was likely ticketed for the bullpen and was given his last chance to start in ST games out of circumstance opposed to initial plans after a long injury layoff. He could be back on the IL any moment now- really thought they should have leveraged his peak value (29) and change for Tucker (31).
Anyway, if you ignore the value gap sending off Clarke you have to consider that would thrust Stroman into a SP role, likely triggering his IP option year- handcuffing a potential move next off-season. Don’t force it. Stroman for Arenado made sense, otherwise you’re trading cost controlled value for glove first fading star being paid like a no. 3 hitter.
BITA
Stroman for Arenado makes no sense for the Cardinals. None.
Mynameisnoname
I was talking from the Yankees side as he mentioned Clarke, but Clarke has much more value than Stroman.
And it makes some sense for the Cardinals as well. 60 mil/3 years vs 36 mil/2 years does save money and limit the commitment time. Comparative players as well. Not enough to pull the trigger in Mo’s eyes, but there is absolutely logic in the discussions.
BITA
There is no logic in the Cardinals acquiring Stroman. He’s old and overpaid and the team doesn’t need another starter.
Mynameisnoname
So is Arenado. I’m guessing Cash thought they may opt to save some AAV and shave off a year on a bad contract for bad contract.
Mo said no, but you’re acting like there wasn’t credence to the thought. But getting HOU to eat almost all of it is obviously a much better result if that circles back successfully.
Ultimately, St. Louis had a negative run differential and an expected W/L record well under .500 last year, while the NL is pretty stacked looking forward. With a rebuild around the corner cutting any years and $ makes plenty of sense. And the StL rotation could definitely use another arm. After Gray it’s dreadful.
BITA
Arenado had a solid year last year. Stroman did not. Stroman isn’t projected to be in the Yankees starting rotation.
I dont think you know anything about the Cardinals.
deweybelongsinthehall
Stroman is two individuals. When he’s doing well, all is good but when he’s not on and especially if the fans start at the stadium or on the radio/Internet, he’s got such a short skin, that he becomes a cancer that winning teams don’t need. I’d stay away from him even if he was waived. Just not worth the headache. Too bad because while never a number one, he has ability/talent. On the mound, he reminds me of a lefty Oil Can Boyd. So much talent but it was impossible to know how he’d perform when given the ball.
slider32
Stromans upside is Arenados downside this year!
spudchukar
Correct. No chance the Cards want or need Stroman. They are looking for salary relief, and have Mikolas, Matz, Gray, Fedde, Palante, McGreevy already, with Mathews knocking at the door, and perhaps Hence and Gracefo too.
Mynameisnoname
Stroman is the no. 3 or 4 on the Cardinals. The fact he’s not in NY starting 5 is a testament to the Yankees awesome depth and heavy investment in the area more so than Stroman. Cole/Fried/Rodon/Gil would all be 1’s and 2’s in StL rotation and Clarke a 2 or 3, so stop with the apples to oranges comparison please
Beyond Gray and half of a good season from Fedde last year, which of the Cardinals depth starters would you say projects better than Stroman in innings and results?
Stro had an -ERA below average last year for the first time in his career (107) but 93 and 89 the years prior and the upper 70’s and low 80’s if rounding out the last five years.
Very comparable arc to Arenado and a prime rebound candidate to average to slightly above average production. The basis of the disagreement is you overrate Arenado and fail to see the financial motivations for such a premise beyond the names and historical reputations.
deweybelongsinthehall
The article simply says the Yankees offered Stroman and the Cards said no. Likely, not only because they don’t want Stroman but probably Aliso because they have a better offer still on the table. If the Sox, move Casas for pitching, they will next decide between trading for Arenado or signing Bregman. Until the former is traded or the latter signs elsewhere, they both remain viable options.
nowheredan
Boyd and Stroman are both righties
Salzilla
I mean we’ll need to do something at 3b and the conversation there has already begun. I don’t like Stroman, but keeping him at #5 isn’t the worst thing. But I think the Yanks should try again with Stroman and a hitter or a mid level prospect and take more money back.
But more importantly comparing Clarke to Burnes us bananas. Don’t see it. I don’t see him better than Gil overall either. I’d honestly have no issue trading either, but Gil was a sticking point for Tucker, I don’t think Clarke would have moved that needle. But for Arenado? Yeah I think it’d be a fair deal. But again depends I guess in your beliefs.
billysbballz
Wow this is a bad take. The Yankees are not giving up a starting pitcher like Schmidt for Arenado at his age and with his contract. I definitely want to add Arenado to the Yankees because he brings attitude, leadership, and desire to win but if the Yankees are going to stay under the 300m luxury tax hit they have to send a bad contract back either DJ or Stroman. Maybe they include one prospect such as Everson Pereira coming off injury to make it happen otherwise they should just pivot and go sign Ha-Seong Kim to play second and leave Jazz at third. That makes more sense since Kim is a leadoff type hitter that doesnt strike out allot . The other Kim coming from Korea is also in that same mode and left handed bat. Sign him for two years at much less rather than pay for Arenado and then sign Goldy.
Salzilla
Not really a bad take. Have you heard of anyone clamoring for Clarke? I like him, but let’s be realistic here. He’s a fourth starter at best. Still coming off a decent season, I think he’d get the Cards to pay more of Nolan contract as a better return than Stroman. That’s why I’d do it.
Otherwise sure, reoffer Stroman or DJ with a prospect like Everson. All for that, too, as I’ve said here.
And further I’d take either Kim in a heartbeat, though I’ve heard no interest from the Yanks there for whatever reason.
slider32
Schmidt has 3 years of control and is in his prime that’s worth 60 million on the trade market!
Mynameisnoname
Fangraphs posted an article on the very comparison last Spring and Clarkes recent results indicate they aren’t far off. So I was merely piggybacking of better versed than I data pros.
Clarke hasn’t shown the ability to turn a line-up over a third time and keep his pitch count down like Burnes, so I wasn’t arguing he is at that level now (or ever will be if he’s always at 102 pitches through 4 2/3), but as far as arm talent and the quality of cutter- they are extremely similar.
Salzilla
I’m all for Clarke developing as such, but it’s tough to bank on. Right now i think he’s expendable in the right trade.
Mynameisnoname
I agree. And again, it was an observation of pitch shape similarities more so than direct projection. But if moved, I hope it would be for a player hitting his contract instead of a slick glove.
A 9.81 K/9 and sub 3 ERA with 3 years of control is nothing to sneeze at. Let’s hope he continues down that road and gives us 150-160 IP of 3.50 pitching from the 5 slot.
stymeedone
If Stroman at his salary is not used in the rotation, he will never have trade value.
KnicksFanCavsFan
There’s no way we get by giving up nothing for Belli but give up a SP of Schmidt’s caliber for owed a more expensive Arenado
Salzilla
What is Clarke’s caliber? I’ve heard no one sounding interested there like they have for Gil. Giving up Clarke would more than likely cheapen Arenado for us.
BITA
The Cardinals don’t need Schmidt. They could use Lombard.
Salzilla
Clarke is way better than Poteet who we gave up for Bellinger. I’d only give him up if the Cards pay a significant amount for Arenado. I doubt the Yankees give up one of their top five prospects for him. So it’s a stalemate.
They can have DJ and Stroman.
BITA
LeMahieu has massive negative trade value
Arenado
Nootbaar
For
Dominguez
LeMahieu
That’s the only way the Cardinals would take that terrible contract.
Salzilla
Thankfully you don’t speak for the Cards. Doubtful it’d take that. And stop trying to sell us Nootbar, lol. You keep him and enjoy whatever it is you enjoy about him. We had him already in Verdugo, we want better, and Jasson has way more potential to be top tier.
BITA
Arenado isn’t more expensive than Bellinger.
TB Sox NY
I would love it financially if the Yankees took on both salaries.Both on a decline and expensive.I love it.
Raymond Flagstaff
but its short and won’t hurt them in any way, so hold your joy
Floyd Rayford's cat
Doesn’t make any sense for the Cardinals! They’re looking to save money and get younger
buns cherington
arenado for stroman would have saved them money and made them younger
Floyd Rayford's cat
What? They want prospects, not 34 year old expensive relievers!
CardsFan57
The Yankees wanted St Louis to send Arenado and cash. It wasn’t a straight swap. There was no savings in that for the Cardinals.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Bloom doesn’t want to get fired before he officially starts
TB Sox NY
If i am the Cardnials i ask for Dominguez.Then eat some salary for the Yankees benefit.
LakeersYanksChiefs
Dominguezyou cards fans are funny
gbs42
Lakers,
A handle of “TB Sox NY” makes you think this person is a Cardinals fan?
deweybelongsinthehall
The thing is so many players have done well in a September call up. Dominguez has great upside but is after his second late call up, not a certainty. While no one really is, Yankee fans today treat him like they did Clint Frazier years ago. A nickname alone doesn’t make you great.
Rsox
Unless, of course if you are Pork Chop Pugh, then the nickname is the only thing that makes you great
Salzilla
No chance that would ever happen.
nowheredan
Why not Judge AND Dominguez?
pt57
Only if the Yankees pay down Judge’s salary.
deweybelongsinthehall
I realize how strong Judge is but that ball he hit by the Fenway jumbo screen still amazes me. 60% him, 20% juiced ball, 20% maple bat (compared to the old ash bats)?
Raymond Flagstaff
Juiced ball is as bad as the PED era andit can be insidiously used as well to unlevel the playing field
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Plus if you extrapolate Judges errors based on his last game he is estimated to make 162 errors 😉
Rsox
I don’t blame them for balking at Stroman as he would have been a salary dump for the Yankees to even things out. I do think a package with Schmidt or Gil with either Cabrera or Peraza and at least one or two other minor leaguers would probably be more to the Cardinals liking.
LakeersYanksChiefs
omg you must be out of your damn mind if you think arenado is worth anything close to that omg im dying laughing
Rsox
You think the Cardinals are just going to gift him to Cashman for a signed late-career Derek Jeter Baseball card?
rct
“You think the Cardinals are just going to gift him to Cashman for a signed late-career Derek Jeter Baseball card?”
He’s expensive and probably a 2 WAR/season player from here on out. A league average bat. He’s not exactly a gift, which is why the Cardinals are trying to dump him.
Raymond Flagstaff
theyre dumping him to save money knowing they can’t expect to compete at the moment. 2 WAR is valuable and somewhere around 20 million is not absurd to pay for such a thing. He will likely be better than league average bat for a few more years imo
vikingbluejay67
Why not? The Rockies did.
Simm
So 20m for a 2 war player is fine? Jake cronenworth gets tossed around on here a lot and he is a 2 war player, younger and has an Aav just over 11m.
He might actually be worth Dominguez and judge to cards fans.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
We are not going to win this year, so we are going to field a team devoid of MLB caliber players = which is what the fans pay to see = tank the payroll and pocket a bunch of money.
Why not?
MLB fans have proven dumb enough to tolerate it…
Why not?
Everyone lese did it and got away with it…
Why not?
This is my opportunity to make 10s’ of millions of dollars off of morons who are just trying to be good Americans.
Why not?
Simm
Sometimes an org needs to reset itself. Rather than keep doing something that’s not working.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I’ll buy that. Why not? I’ve already been duped…..why stop now?
You have to admit it has convenient affect on the payroll. The team pockets the money.
Nothing wrong with paying a little more to create a tradable contract. The fans get some good baseball, they can follow that player as the season progresses, the team gets something back to help with the reset.
I don’t even think the Tigers did that last year. They just ran into it because they were “out of contention”.
Quitters. (The F.O. did, but the team didn’t = ha)
I looked at the “reset” or “rebuild” attitude as the same – Quiters.
I suppose there may be a lot of “reallocation ” of resources fans don’t see, consider or even care about. Hello.
I think every team should hire one or two guys the fans can “come out to see”. That’s part of the fun. When those players get traded, there is still an associated sense of “success”.
Simm
When you sign a player via free agency they don’t have a lot of trade value unless they outperform their contract. Now you can do this then pay down the money to increase that players value. So usually it’s small contracts that can easily outperform their contract with some uptick in performance.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Rsox- that is probably about what the Cards get!
deweybelongsinthehall
Simm, his glove is still there, Can Croneworth pick it at third like Brooks Robinson?
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I would.think= determine what prospect(s) you want, determine what FAs’ those team need/want.
Swoop in, sign.them, signing bonuses reduces annual contract value. Or….
If a team.is sticking on the price, swoop in, pay the price, pay it down with a signing bonuses.
Or from the players side = meet their price for the other teams, pay it down with a signing bonuses. Be non-committal by using team options.
There are lots of things to help both players and teams.
I understand it is not easy, can be complicated and not good for every player’s or team’s situation, but it can and should be pursued as a strategy.
Teams.will deal.
JackStrawb
@Rsox No. The Cardinals will have to eat salary to move Arenado.
At 3/60m a 2.5 win 3Bman turning 34 isn’t worth it. Eat money.
JackStrawb
@Simm It’s 6/72m for Cronenworth through his age 36 season. The Padres are… something.
Salzilla
I’d give up one of those, but not Gil, for Arenado. A large chunk of money is coming back this way, too, so player wise I don’t think it’s going to take more than one or at most one and very low minor leaguer.
El Kabong
What would be a reasonable Yankees offer for an Arenado/Helsley package?
Salzilla
I love Helsey, but with Williams here now that isn’t a trade I’d try to make if I were Cashman.
El Kabong
Oops. I forgot about Williams. That would be a heckuva bullpen, though. Deep and deadly in October.
RobblyDobs
Arenado, Helsley, Chase Davis (2023 1st rounder) for Dominguez. Cards might also have to kick in some cash or lottery prospects.
Yanks won’t want to trade Dominguez but this ticks a few boxes for them.
bronxbombers
This would patch a hole at 3b to open one in LF, no thanks lol
top jimmy
Stroman would instantly be the #3 starter in the Cards rotation. And Stroman only has one year left on his contract, so it’s ridiculous to say his salary “evens out” with Arenado’s.
BITA
Stroman sucks he would not be the Cardinals number 3 and his contract is far worse than Arenados even if it’s only for 2 years.
Raymond Flagstaff
saying stroman sucks is buffoonery. do better
Bochys Retirement Fund
I think the Cardinals would rather just spend Arenado’s contract two times over before adding someone like Stroman
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Nah, St. Louis could simply DFA Stroman, then some other team (probably) would sign him for the league minimum.
Raymond Flagstaff
you know they still would have to pay him, right?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Raymond
Of course, but he said the Cardinals would rather spend $128 million than take Stroman. But they could cut Stroman at a cost of only $37 million so Bochy’s statement is, if taken literally, false.
Raymond Flagstaff
oh i didnt realize you were arguing against something silly.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Yup, I probably should have just ignored it as obvious hyperbole
Raymond Flagstaff
trolls are so successful because we often just think its an innocent dummy and when we try to help we suddenly experience the regret of having to deal with their juvenile behavior. slippery slope!!
top jimmy
Arenado is not an asset anymore. With that contract and his declining production with age, he has become a liability. Why do you think the Cards are trying to move on from him?
BITA
The Cardinals are trying to trade him because he wants to be traded knucklehead. Not because he isn’t any good.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
You are both wrong.
Arenado is a nice asset. Just not worth $64 million over three years. I am sure the A’s would have paid half that amount in a heartbeat.
And the Cardinals are not trying to trade him just because he wants it, they also want to cut payroll.
I am sure you both know those things, but it is not the way your posts are phrased.
BITA
The Cardinals are cutting payroll by not bringing back Goldschmidt, Lynn and Gibson.
He is worth his contract. You are wrong.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
BITA
“The Cardinals are cutting payroll by not bringing back Goldschmidt, Lynn and Gibson.” True, no disagreement here. I think they would be happy to cut more.
“He is worth his contract. You are wrong.” He is “worth” what another team is willing to pay on the open market. I don’t think $64 million over three years will fetch a suitor without it being bought down. I concede that he is a borderline hall of famer, but his bat markedly declined in 2024.
Raymond Flagstaff
people always go to the one extreme or the other, with almost everything. for some reason they have a mental block against the middle way… sad but true
BITA
It’s got deferred money the value is more like 60 million that is stated in the article.
Salzilla
Honestly I disagree, to me, he’s on par or better than Walker who just got 3/60. His contract isn’t terrible in that regard. Pretty fair for a Nolan Arenado.
WadeBoggsWildRide
MLB Top100, your comment is the most reasonable yet! I do think Arenado makes 3/$60 as a free agent if he was available. Which is about what his contract’s value is. If the Cards want anything beyond trash in return they will have to pay in cash.
BITA
Who’s better Arenado or Yusei Kikuchi?
Arenado or Christian Walker?
Arenado or Eovaldi?
I am pretty sure Arenado gets 3 years 60 million as a free agent.
stymeedone
@top jimmy
I thought it was because they had several young 3B playing out of position, and moving Nolan opened up the spot for one of them.
BITA
Gorman can move to 3b but Walker has no business there.
If Arenado didn’t want to be traded he wouldn’t be traded.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Careful IF he reads this website He might get his feelings hurt.
He’ll soldier on counting his millions
JackStrawb
@top jimmy Broadly agree, but Arenado is still a top 6% fielder so the chance he’ll hold _some_ value rather than collapse completely over the next three years is fairly good.
I’m sure you know the problem is, it looks like the best you’re going to get from Arenado in 2025 is his 2023-2024 seasons, with a slow decline afterwards, so ‘breaking even’ is the best you’re likely to get for 3/60m.
I’d bet on Arenado being worth a lineup slot at 34 in 2025, but after that probably not (though he won’t disgrace himself in 2026).
He’s a probable HOFer with one more solid, respectable season like 2023-2024 and fairly certain to go in with two more such seasons, giving him every motivation to work his x off to keep what he has left.
slider32
Why does it have to be Stroman, the Cards need prospects?,
CardsFan57
The Yankees wanted Arenado and cash. They are trying to keep from going over the third CBT tier.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpertAGAIN)
I hope Mozeliak blocked the Yankees number at that trade proposal. I don’t know how the Yankees keep getting away with this robbery. They trade their worst players that they don’t want for allstars. Cash has been doing this for years. Yet, David Stearns is hitting on his couch right now with a toothpick in his mouth bragging about signing Jacob Young, Chris Williams, Griffin Canning and Anthony Goose. What are we doing here? Yankees missed out on Soto and they proceeded to get Fried, Bellinger, and Devin Williams. They are still going after great players. Shows what an A+ organization the Yankees are and how dysfunctional of a franchise the Mets are. A rotation of Senga, Peterson, Blackburn, Canning, Holmes, and Montas. World Series, here we come! The Dollar Tree David Way!
ReyDay
Give the man a break Jesus!! After last years run and the fact it’s still only mid/late December, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Raymond Flagstaff
sheesh what a whiner
AgentF
As a Mets fan, the thrifty pitching choices are a bit confusing, but the rest of this is nonsense. It’s only December, quit whining.
Raymond Flagstaff
Having won nearly half my fantasy leagues over the years the strategy being employed is pretty obvious to me. Pitching is way easier to finneagle as the season goes along than fixng gaping holes in a lineup. Add that these guys have teams of professionals sorting through the options it appears to be exactly the mentality going on here. With the added benefit of not being tied to these guys for 8 years like a 30 year old fried and the yankees. Bats are way easier to project than arms. Though i wouldnt completely discount bringing im a household name at some point to start. Often I would win leagues where I literall drafted all stafting hitters before a single pitcher. Leaving me tons of Manaea and severino level pitchers to choose from while people picked up crappy bats lile bellinger while om sitting pretty with soto
JoeBrady
Raymond Flagstaff
Having won nearly half my fantasy leagues ……Pitching is way easier to finneagle as the season goes along than fixng gaping holes in a lineup.
=============================
I use the same strategy. Probably at least 8 of my first 10 picks are position players, maybe more.
And I still wind up with mediocre hitting and excellent pitching.
JackStrawb
@AgentF The Mets bolstering the back end of their pitching staff after signing Soto is confusing?
Salzilla
We should trade Stroman to you guys! Pitch Lab him up!
WadeBoggsWildRide
Stroman to the Mets for Marte?
Salzilla
Deal, Wade!
WadeBoggsWildRide
Put it in the books!
WadeBoggsWildRide
Dollar Tree David Stearns is pretty darn funny.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Spoken like a spoiled Yankee fan hidden in a NYM fans (Wolf) Clothing
This just In Hare leads Tortoise in Marathon halfway through.
Silly Wabbit That Dog Won’t Hunt
Ben K
That’s like a bad fantasy trade you know as a manager is gonna get shot down as you send off the offer.
Salzilla
I literally lol’d in fantasy.
hiflew
OK,Rockies offer Kris Bryant for Stroman NOW!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Angels offer Anthony Rendon for Stroman NOW!
YankeesBleacherCreature
He’s got a full NTC and likes California and sometimes likes playing baseball.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Bryant has $108 million to go
Rendon has $77 million to go
Stroman only has $37 million to go and at this point is the most useful player of the three
Yankees can just cut Stroman and hope a team wants him at the minimum so that Yankees save a million a year
YankeesBleacherCreature
If Stroman was a free agent, he’s probably signing for one year at $12+ given that Frankie Montas is worth $17. No reason to DFA him.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
There is no doubt in my mind that Stroman is less of a risk on a one year deal than say Soroka at $9 million. But there do not seem to be any teams that want to touch him. Stroman is actually a great guy in the community and he was received ok in the Cubs clubhouse, but when he went after management for not giving him an extension, he burned his bridges. He was lucky the Yankees got him. But a team like the Cardinal will not want him.
Raymond Flagstaff
stroman sitting out during the psychopathy inflicted on us always sat the wrong way with me
Simm
Idk, I think stroman gets more than 12m per. Every pitcher is getting paid right now. Even the not so good ones. Now him being a headache may lower is value below his pitching worth.
JackStrawb
Probably the most incredibly, obviously, blatantly horrific FA signing in the entirety of baseball history.
Big money, long deal, aging player by 2022 whose best years ended in 2017? The stuff of horror movies.
BITA
Two Cardinals Yankees trade proposals
Arenado
Nootbaar
For
Dominguez
LeMahieu
Or
Arenado + 10 million or so
For
Lombard Jr
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Arenado and $17.5 million in cash for
Griffin Herring.
With St. Louis, he would be a “red herring”
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I now think $17.5 million is too much. Arenado gets $74 million but Colorado pays $10 million for a net of $64 million. Including $13 million in case would bring Arenado to three years at $51 million. I could see that. The problem is that Arenado has a no-trade clause and really only the Mets, Yankees and Angels could use him. Someone is going to sign Bregman, whether it is a long term deal (likely) or a high AAV deal with opt-outs (unlikely but not impossible).
vtadave
Yankees also looking to sign Rafael Furcal at this point
BlueSkies_LA
He’s still available.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Furcal and Kershaw were teammates, blast from the past.
El Kabong
Furcal’s arm strength at age 47 is probably still better than Volpe’s.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Breaking Exclusive
Texeira is making like a Mike Tyson comeback for 1B
norcalblue
All the “Dodger fans” wanting Arenado in LA should read and reflect. Seriously, why do you want this guy.l? He’s a shadow of the player you think he is and he comes with enormous baggage, including an albatross salary obligation. Max is a better hitter, without the financial baggage. Let’s move on and address real needs.
BITA
He’s a 3 win player who probably would play better in a better environment. I agree the Dodgers don’t need to do something but I would take him over Muncy. His contract is not an albatross that’s just not true.
BlueSkies_LA
No reason they’d have to take him over Muncy. None at all.
BITA
Are you the one that keeps saying they can play Muncy at 2b? That’s fine with me the Cardinals don’t need Muncy and he has to play somewhere.
BlueSkies_LA
Don’t hurt your finger scrolling or anything. Yes, I’m the one who “keeps saying” that Muncy can go back to the position he played for years.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
There is no way the Dodgers would touch Arenado unless it got them Helsley or Gray in the deal.
BITA
You don’t know what you are talking about. Arenados contract is not bad. With the referrals it has a real time value of about 60 million remaining for 3 years. That’s not bad at all.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Did you watch Muncy in the post-season, oh yeah.
mlb.com/news/max-muncy-reaching-base-safely-postse…
2024 regular season OPS Muncy 0.852, Arenado 0.719. Muncy had 15 homers in 237 at-bats, Arenado had 16 homers in 578 at-bats.
BITA
I will take Arenado. He plays good defense and can hit if he’s focused.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Muncy is $14.5 million in 2025 and a team option at $10 million in 2026.
Arenado is $74 million for three years, but the Rockies will pay $10 million of it.
Arenado still costs $25 million more during 2025 and 2026 even with the Rockies helping pay the tab.
And the Dodgers just won the World Series, even if it was a lateral move, it would be a poor decision.
I am not saying that Arenado cannot help a team, just try someone other than the Dodgers and resign yourself to including cash. Including $14 million in cash would make Arenado three years at $45 million. I could see a team swallowing that, with the Astros out of the picture, it is the Yankees. But if Arenado is $20 million a year, swing for the fences and sign Bregman.
BITA
Why do the Cardinals need to eat salary? It’s not a bad contract. Christian Walker just got 3 years 60 million basically same amount of money when you factor in the deferred money. I would take Arenado over Walker and of course you don’t lose a draft pick.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Walker plays great defense at 1B and is the superior hitter to Arenado based on 2024. Arenado plays a more difficult position defensively and still plays well defensively, but I don’t think there is a team that will pay the full $64 million for Arenado’s defense and declining bat.
We don’t have to convince each other. Let’s wait and se what happens. I was right about Belli. It depends which team has a need that matches the player. Of course, Arenado would have been much nicer for the A’s than Ursela, but Arenado has a no-trade list which makes it even harder to find a team willing to pay close to full ride on his outstanding $64 million, which includes the Colorado largess.
hiflew
You wouldn’t lose a draft pick, but you would lose an already established minor league player or two. I’d much rather lose the unknown quantity over the player(s) that I have already invested time and money into.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Also, there is a chance the Mets could be interested for the right price.
BITA
Why is Arenado declining but Walker isn’t?
You are making stuff up.
BITA
I think Arenado has neutral trade value. So you actually wouldn’t lose anything you just have to pay the money.
BITA
Mets can have Arenado and 10 million for Mauricio. That’s a guy the Cardinals could use.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
BITA
Not sure if you are replying to me
If so:
Walker
2023 OPS+ 122 and gold glove
2024 OPS+ 121 and gold glove
Arenado
2023 OPS+ 108 with no gold glove
2024 OPS+ 101 with no gold glove
You can have the last word, I rest my case
BITA
Weird how you left out 2022.
Walker’s WAR has declined each year from 2022 through 2024.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
The Mariners could use Arenado, but St Louis would have to take the Garver or Haniger contract. But it’s a moot point because it’s very doubtful Arenado would sign off on a trade to the M’s.
Doron
The reason is that it is plainly obvious that the Cardinals want to dump salary.
In a salary dump, teams rarely get much value in return.
BITA
Arenado isn’t accepting a deal to the Mariners. He wants to win and the Mariners haven’t proven committed to doing so.
And he doesn’t have negative trade value either. So no Haniger or Garver.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
NO to trading Mauricio, look at NYM prospects – like our best top 50 -100 and we’ll give give you 2 for Nolan and 10M. I am going rogue and making a deal without Stearns permission. I’ll convince him Don’t
Worry 😉
Raymond Flagstaff
max is not the better hitter
MLB Top 100 Commenter
“Hitter” as opposed to overall player. Max was clearly the better hitter in 2024. Over a full career, it is Arenado.
2024 regular season OPS Muncy 0.852, Arenado 0.719. Muncy had 15 homers in 237 at-bats, Arenado had 16 homers in 578 at-bats.
The question is simple: do you believe that 2024 is the new normal for Arenado’s bat or not?
Raymond Flagstaff
you are comparing apples to oranges. muncy is a specialist, not an every day player…. not as good a hitter
over the last 5 years muncy has hit under 200 twice and twice more under .235 and highest under .250
muncy is an adam dunn type, and not as good . fine but not all that impressive as a corner infielder, maybe as a second baseman
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I agree that Arenado is better fielder than Muncy.
I stand by my position that as of this juncture in time, I would say Muncy is a better hitter than a declining Arenado.
2024 regular season OPS Muncy 0.852, Arenado 0.719. Muncy had 15 homers in 237 at-bats, Arenado had 16 homers in 578 at-bats. I think that this is the new normal for Arenado.
Raymond Flagstaff
you can say it as much as you like, it doesnt change that one is a platoon split the other is an every day player. muncy is also way into decline although the numbers were never really very impressive so its hard to tell
youre comparing a platoon player in a WS champ lineup with 3 future hall of famers, and teoscar etc vs arenado on a pretty garbage team playing full time. its a terrible comp
Raymond Flagstaff
if the dodgers agreed with you muncy wouldnt have been a platoon player. he is a platoon player for the same reason relievers are in the pen, they werent good enough to be starters
there isnt a single year in his career his average was lower than muncy’s best average since 2018
how did muncy get to within 20 or so Ks of arenado in half the ABs? i could go on and on.. i have never been impressed by muncy tho. definitely more than i am suggesting i know exactly where arenado is at currently
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I will give you that Muncy had more talent in front of him.
At the beginning of September, Arenado had Goldie behind him and Muncy had Will Smith behind him. That does help Muncy a little bit.
Raymond Flagstaff
its far beyond that. far far beyond that. again its apples to oranges, goldy is way passed his prime. the dodgers have near elite production top to bottom with three superstars. that means pitchers are begging for outs in the other 6 spots which muncy is one when the matchup is right for him. its not just who is hitting behind you, its who is in front of you, how much does the pitcher have to throw you strikes because he can’t get back to the top with men on base etc
Raymond Flagstaff
im not sure ive ever seen a more misleading WAR than muncy. not sure but seems to me a platoon player should have their WAR halved because this appears to be whats wrong with his WAR. its way overvaluing him because the manager exploited matchups effectively with him. no reason to think arenado or whoever wouldn’t also improve their war by facing only good matchups. but perhaps im missing something here in the WAR calculation but it doesnt make any sense to me. if a player comes out and gets a 3 WAR facing righties then gives back 1 facing lefties that does not mean he is equal to a 1 WAR player that only plays against righties and never gets that win subtracted against a lefty. doesnt mean theyre equal players
wanderslust
If you look at Arenado’s numbers for 2024, there’s probably an underlying injury. If it was only his bat that declined, maybe it’s age, but his range at 3B also slipped and he was a little slower. If it’s an issue with his legs, he’ll get better and be much better than Muncy. If it’s not, you be right IMHO.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Ray
You mention Muncy’s strikeouts, but not that Muncy had the second most walks per game among NL players in 2024.
Raymond Flagstaff
Again, not hard when you only play againt good matchups. My point was exactly yours, youre selectively quoting what u want. Part time < full time.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Why would not both of us cite the facts to support our position? Now you sound like BITA.
Raymond Flagstaff
I did. Not a problem. But u never addressed my point so why should i bother.
WadeBoggsWildRide
Muncy would play 2nd
JackStrawb
But he was great once!
Dash 2
Good for the Cardinals. Yankees are always trying to push their leftovers or overhyped prospects on other teams.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
There should be a team willing to take Stroman if the Yankees dangle the right propsects with him, otherwise, Yankees should just keep him as depth. Injuries happen.
BITA
Yeah put him with Dominguez and someone will take him.
Citizen1
Cubs would have taken this deal
If they have Arenado. Trying to shed $60 mil is problematic. Imagine the Mets trying to dump a high salary of $200 mil a few years from now or the dodgers .
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Citizen
It’s all in the numbers. Yankees wanted to send Stroman to the Cubs in the Belli deal and Cubs preferred to send $5 million in cash and get nothing back, which I thought was the right move for the Cubs. I am sure the Yankees would have sent cash rather than received it if Cubs would take Stroman.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Don’t forget about Poteet !!!! Key to the trade.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Just making it Cody for Cody is worth something.
Citizen1
But Bellinger is a boras client and worth 4 top 20 prospects or a ten year $600 million contract, according to boras.
Raymond Flagstaff
Thats his job. And its a pretty sweet one which he does very well
EricM8
they hired bloom to help with their financials
they want to dump most of arenado’s money but not taken on anymore, which you can see why they didn’t want to go stroman route
however we’ve seen teams offer to swap one bad contract for another
with starting pitching the most valuable asset, you’ll see some team take a chance.
the whole mkt is kinda at a stall because of pricing, cheap owners, RSN money not being available.
KnicksFanCavsFan
TO MLB OPERATORS:
For future pays, with regards to future Darkseid for teams over the ts limit, could you list the risk cost of a proposed or completed trade?
So if the Yanks signed Carlos Santana for 1/$12 mil and the tax bill is “$,”could you list it as $12 + “$”= ??? thanks.
juggernaut
This would be a horrible swap for the Cardinals in this wannabe offer. This is NOT going to be like the Bellinger trade all over again for the Yankees.
DavRz
If the Yankees aren’t one of the teams Arenaldo is willing to accept a trade to , why would they even bother asking St.Louis about him? I don’t want anybody on my team that doesn’t want to be here.
Doron
Not specifying the Yankees on the list doesn’t necissarily mean he won’t accept a trade to the Yankees, it is just a leverage move.
BITA
The list is made up fake news. I imagine the Yankees are his next choice after the Dodgers.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Because if there is mutual irreconcilable differences Nolan might expand his OK list just to move on and get settled with his new team. Family logistics, find a new home etc.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Arenado will want to join his buddie Goldie on the Yankees…. maybe.
The McNasty1
Stroman as a MLB pitcher, is and forever will be, self absorbed garbage
Doron
Cashman should try to make a trade on Stroman with the A’s.
The A’s are needing to add salary so they don’t get sanctioned.
Beyond that, considering the price of #3-4’s in free agency, a #4-5 like Stroman at say 12-13 million a year is not too shabby.
The Yankees will NOT DFA him, that has 0% probability, but I doubt that he will be a Yankee past ST.
The Yankees can simply wait for ST to be in full swing, some team will suddenly need a decent Innings Eater, and boom, trade done.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
I think the basic idea of Stroman to OAK is a good one based on need – just have to figure $ NYY includes and NYY gets a lower level prospect
JackStrawb
@Doron STEEP decline since 2021—Stroman could easily put up a 4.75 ERA next year.
That’s the fundamental problem. He’s worth at most 2/10m but he’s probably going to pitch enough to cost you 2/36m. The Yankees might as well keep him.
BronxBombers23
I have no interest in Goldschmidt. He can’t even hit fastballs anymore.
mlbnyyfan
Nolan for DJL. Nolan has 3 years left and DJL 2 years left. Yankees need to get rid of DJL
mlbnyyfan
IMO, if the Yankees brought back Soto, they would need to go cheap at other positions. Yankees should try Cabrera at 3B and Rice at 1B if Bellinger is playing the OF. I have no interest in Nolan or Goldy two aging right-handed hitters. OMG, the longer the off-season continues, I hope Rizzo and Torres don’t come back.
Salzilla
I’d rather have Rizzo abd Torres back than have to rely on Cabrera and Rice both trying to figure it out AND Jasson in the OF. That’s too many youngsters to rely on, my guts. Yankees don’t play that way unless injury forced.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Making a serious comment I thought NYY could have brought back Urshela as part time 3B,2B and SS. Then they could have spent more $ on a 1B. I don’t mean Alonso
Sounds like they might sign Bregman which I think is a bad idea. It would be good to OK for 3 years but after not so much IMO
Urshela signed with OAK
They could still use Cabrera Jazz plays 2B and they try to trade DJL and play him at 1B/3B sometime if stuck with him
bronxbombers
As a Yankee fan I do that in a heartbeat
BronxBombers23
DJ for Arenado sounds great, but Cards won’t do that.
BITA
I will repeat
Arenado
Nootbaar
For
Dominguez
Lemahieu
That makes sense.
stan lee the manly
This is even worse for the Cardinals than Arenado for DJL straight up
BITA
Dominguez is an exciting young player. 6 years of Dominguez for 3 each of Arenado and Nootbaar.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Not withstanding NYY hype who do we think will be the better player the Martian or Spencer Jones?
A tossup?
Jbigz12
Dominguez. Jones K’s too much.
juggernaut
The Cardinals don’t want the Yankees garbage like Stroman or LeMahieu contracts. Get real here.
Lindor's Bodyguard
BlackStink doesn’t live in reality. Your request will go unfulfilled.
whyhayzee
Really? They did? Huh.
2zwudz
As a Cub fan ….Cardinals fans you dont want him!
eatonculo
That’s the part of this a lot of people don’t recognize.
Stroman is a head case, like … uh … mental illness head case, you-don’t-want-that-on-your-team head case.
The Cardinals would be better off trading Arenado for a bag of balls than taking on Stroman for one minute.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Stroman seems like a huge question mark to me and his stock is exceptionally low right now- to the point that the Yankees aren’t even sure they want him to start for them if they’re stuck with him.
He doesn’t seem so de=valued as to be outright released with $18M left on his deal, but the Yankees certainly have buyer’s remorse and nobody else likely wants him.
Maybe the A’s will take him, show the MLBPA and Commission’s Officer their new spending ways aren’t purely for show to get to that minimal $105M threshold?
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Maybe he could increase his value by becoming an emergency third catcher.
Kidding not kidding
JackStrawb
The A’s will take him if the Yankees eat ALL his 2025 salary. The player option complicates things, given he’s something like a 1 in 3 chance to be able to opt in for 2026 at 1/18m given the 140 IP trigger.
Negan
It’s too bad someone cheaper with better upside isn’t available. Oh wait Kim is out there still can play a ton of postions.
ohyeadam
Yeah but not for the first month or two, maybe three. Who knows what he will be when he does get back on the field. Shoulder injuries seem to linger
YaGottaBelieveAgain
NYY are overlooking their in house solution The 2025 Comeback Player of the Year DJ LeMahieu Singing Here I Come to Save the Day!
Problem Solved
Please forward my consulting fee to the following address …
JackStrawb
@Negan I’d rather play Kim at 1B for 1/12m than Goldschmidt.
Negan
Yes. Well it’s too late now! I’d sign Kim and let in the in house kids play for a spot
dano62
Make it Warren for Arenado & Cards retain $7m… Done!
billysbballz
Not happening. Yanks are not trading Warren and only getting 7m back lol
slider32
Agreed, or you substitute Beeter and give the Yanks 10!
walls17
It’s actually funny to imagine the Twitter comments from the BFIB about Stroman as soon as he has a bad start. I just want the entertainment value from that.
BITA
Imagining Twitter comments sounds like a lonely Saturday night. But to each their own…..
walls17
I never said I had a life…
Mikenmn
I don’t quite get Cashman’s strategy. But that’s been true for a very long time. “Let’s bring in the overpriced veteran….?”
whyhayzee
Cash man’s strategy is nothing more than classic Yankees entitlement. Take our garbage and give us what we want. Send us your overpaid players, so we don’t have to depend on highly overrated “prospects” to play on our championship caliber “team”. They only know how to buy, buy, buy.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
NYY is trying to balance All In approach to take advantage of Judges, Cole, Stanton, Belly window but there is considerable pressure from Hal to minimize overall team salary penalties
SupremeZeus
Cashman acquired a lot of boat anchors for the SV Yankee Clipper.
billysbballz
To respond to the absurd cardinals and anti Yankee fans on here that think the cards are going to trade Arenado contract and get a good prospect or young starting pitcher like Schmidt you must either be trolling or new to baseball?
The cards are looking to dump his salary at the right time because of his age and on the field value. The Yankees are willing to take a chance and see if he has anything remotely close to given them some value next season sought of like they did when they acquired Donaldson who was actually coming off much better years when they acquired him from the twins.
It’s a salary dump and now if the cards want to move him badly they have to eat some money or take back another contract like Stroman that they can turn around and deal. It’s simple math. If the Yanks added a prospect in the deal such as Beeter or Everson Pereira with Stroman to make it happen than so be it but the cards are not getting anything of value back in this trade if they don’t eat money or take back a contract otherwise.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
StL doesn’t have to take back another overpriced player. They’d probably rather get prospects back understanding they would have to send some $ along with Arenado. If I was StL I wouldn’t agree to send more than 7-10M. StL like many teams might ask for pitching
JackStrawb
If StL is sending $10m with Arenado, they’ll have to GIVE up a prospect to make that work.
Shawn W.
As of Saturday morning, the Yankees and Alex Bergman’s team are in negotiations on a contract.
Negan
Where did you hear this?!
Fever Pitch Guy
Negan – He wrote Bergman so does it really matter?
RunDMC
One man’s trash is another man’s — err — nevermind.
BadCo
Someone forgot to tell Toronto that St Louis is trying to reduce payroll. And Stroman had a poor second half of last season!
JackStrawb
Yankees foolishly had Stroman on a 185 inning pace after 12 starts, when his ERA was 2.80.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Per the first baseman situation with the Yankees- I think sucking it up for one season and signing someone like Goldschmidt to a way overpriced salary but only for one year, seems like the better move than any of these guys on a multi-year deal, including taking on Arenado’s remaining contract.
1 year/$25M of Goldschmidt- with some line up protection and the short porch… he’s only a couple of seasons removed from the best production and overall value of his career, so he might actually rediscover something close to his best self with the line up protection the Yankees would provide him… All he’d need to do is produce about 3.1 WAR to more than earn a $25M salary, which seems imminently do-able.
Negan
His 2nd half was great.
eatonculo
Goldschmidt isn’t making $25 million next season. His agent may be asking for that, but he’s not making more than $15 million for one season.
He might make $25 million for two years, but not one.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
My point isn’t the amount being likely, but moreso an overpay of a guy like Goldschmidt for one year is going to be more valuable and cost effective than multiple years of the other current options- multiple years likely or definitely being a requirement for the non-Goldschmidt options whether via free agency or trade.
eatonculo
I get it.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
All that said- I would fully expect Goldschmidt to be looking for and reasonably expecting a contract in the $10M-$17.5M range on a one year deal at this point in his career, so I don’t *actually* think he is asking for or would get offered $25M, let alone anything near that.
However, given the salaries of Rizzo the past few years on the Yankees, I would guess if Goldschmidt and the Yankees expressed mutual interest on a one year deal and it simply came down to the guaranteed salary, I would guess Goldschmidt would be asking for around 1 year/$20M guaranteed (that NY surplus) and I am sure the Yankees would be comfortable meeting that basically matching positional cost relative to the past few seasons of Rizzo, Voit, Bird, Teixeira, etc. etc.
Man… first base is a black hole of injury prone high upside but physically unreliable players for the Yankees for a couple of decades now, going all the way back to Giambi, with Tino Martinez really being the only reliable one of the past 30 years… craziness.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Trill
It took half that much to sign Goldie.
JackStrawb
Goldschmidt will get nowhere near 25m, just like he’ll get nowhere near 3.1 WAR.
pinterman
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Worth a try, I guess!!
Steve12345
The Cardinals are going to end up getting stuck with Arenado and Arenado is going to wish he had just approved the trade to Houston while he is losing 90-something games in St Louis.
eatonculo
Nah, Anaheim is the fallback team. If nothing else, he’ll go home to finish out his career.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
I think they will be able to find a taker eventually and probably soon. They seem motivated to move him and most of his contract to a new home
Frankie Bani
Stroman is only good for bating practice
Fever Pitch Guy
Frank – But he’s a master at it.
Ozzie Canseco
Please improve punctuation
johncoltrane
Does anyone know what Houston was gonna send for arenado?
whyhayzee
Six nerf garbage cans?
Flanster
Even if Arenado is somewhat diminished, he is still more valuable than Stroman
BaseballGuy1
the NYY and Stroman were always a misfit. Stroman has always been a head case. Remember those bouts of weirdness while being a Cub. Arenado to the NYY would be good for Arenado, STL, and NYY. Hope it comes about. Goldschmidt getting a two-year deal is unlikely.
YankeesBleacherCreature
He’s been pretty classy so far in NY and has admitted to being more mature now. If you follow social media, you can see a lot of their young players gravitate towards him.
larkraxm
I don’t care about his personality. He was left off the playoff roster because he wasn’t pitching well enough. He gave up a lot of hard contact and put a lot of pressure on the bullpen because he couldn’t get out of the fourth inning. Be a headcase if you want, just pitch better.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Once again- replying to YankeesBleacherCreatures despite being blocked from replying to him lol – –
Stroman hasn’t really been an ‘issue’ in NY but yeah, like larkraxm says: Stroman showed almost no stamina or consistency in his first year in NY.
When he was good he was great, but most of the time he was not good. He fell apart pretty quickly into the 2024 season and never really recovered.
If you look at his game to game performance in 2024 he wasn’t awful and was often unlucky, like with minimal run support in otherwise low scoring games, etc. but toward the end of the season he just couldn’t prevent the opponent team from scoring, period and that became a huge liability heading into the post season.
I do wonder if he was used as more of an opener than a starter- limiting him to like 3-4 innings per game rather than trying to get him to the 5th+ inning like a traditional starter, if he’d prove more consistent, valuable and durable- and if they win more of those games and he can contribute in the post season or prove to be a surplus trade chip by the 2025 trade deadline, then he was a net gain in 2025 and I’d take that.
Doug Dueck
St Louis isn’t heading to the playoffs for at least a couple of years so that is a moot point regarding Stroman.
Flanster
@Baseball guy—-Stroman is a MISFIT!!
LGM1979
Do you think the fact that no one wants him has cooled his ego a bit?
YaGottaBelieveAgain
NYY are going to have to include significant $ to offload Stroman. He still has talent/value if he is healthy and motivated and on his best behavior.
A team like MIL, PIT (BP), LAA, COL, WASH
Would BAL, SDP accept for depth?
No team is going to give up much
TrillionaireTeamOperator
I think converting him into a very expensive reliever or opener vs starter (although at this point not *that* expensive, given some of these $8.5M to $16M a year salaries, etc. on these 5.8 ERA injured most of the past few seasons reclamation project relievers) would be the best move, whether Stroman plays for the Yankees or somebody else.
Two or Three excellent innings from Stroman and avoiding his standard 4th or 5th inning meltdowns would be the best route, even if it stings to not use a guy making $18.5M for a full starting pitcher’s worth of innings.
FrontOfficeStan
At this point, the Cardinals should just hold on to Arenado. It doesn’t seem like there’s going to be a valuable deal to be made. They’re not really that far out from being competitive in this division without doing anything new, so why not give it a go? Even if he has a similar season as last year, he will actually have more value at the trade deadline because some of the salary will be paid down. He’s also a clear bounce back candidate, assuming the shoulder is better.
JoeBrady
In terms of $$$, it feels like StL should’ve taken this Stroman is a magnet for bad publicity, but with good #3 SPs going for $20M, it wouldn’t take too much effort from Stroman to be worth his $37M/2. And again, given today’s prices, he might even be motivated to have a good season and NOT pick up the player option.
On the StL side, if Arenado was a FA, what is the most he gets over three years? Maybe $45M/3? That would make him under-water by $30M.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Brady
As a FA $45/3 to $51/3 if the team had a huge need
JoeBrady
As a FA $45/3 to $51/3 if the team had a huge need
====================
FWIW, I was leaning higher. $51M sounded too high, but he might get $48M.
Jbigz12
Also, Stroman has to hit 140 innings to make that cash.
If he looks like trash then cut him loose before his option vests. The offer was fair for sure. Arenado’s batted ball profile was worse than the results he actually had last season. He may bounce back but he truly should’ve been below average with the bat last season instead of the average performance he put in.
Lanidrac
They’d be just as likely to get a good season from Matz.. The Cardinals are trying to shed their overpriced starting pitching, not add to it!
As for Arenado, he’d still be a valuable player if they were forced to keep him, while it’s not absolutely necessary that they dump his salary. It would just mean less playing time for guys like Gorman and Saggase (not that the former actually deserves it until he proves otherwise, while the latter has barely played at the MLB level so far)
JojoA
DeWitt is the 5th wealthiest owner in MLB right now.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
To DeWitt’s credit, the Cards don’t exactly field a particularly cheap or bargain barrel roster.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
That would be the worst trade in history me man for a potential hall of fame players. I laughed so hard at this I peed myself.
OldWhiteGuy57
Mo, please say NO to Stro !
good vibes only
This is like the kind of drunk offer I’d make in my fantasy league without even bothering to think about what the other team needs or wants lol
jamesryu14
Trade Arenado for a pitcher who is mediocre and disrupts clubhouse chemistry? No
Lanidrac
Yeah, there’s no way the Cardinals would want Stroman. They already have two underperforming and expensive starting pitchers with Mikolas and Matz, and they are trying to dump at least one of them.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Well duh
energel
merry christmas!
178iq
What other offers do they have? Maybe the Yankees can toss in 2 hotdog vendors & a couple grounds crew.